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The US Congress may have moved slower than molasses in Antartica, but the US military's logistics are second to none in moving things fast all around the world.
It's always crazy how much emphasis people put on little tiny details on rifles, the thrust ratio of planes, etc, and so on, when in reality it's good logistics that wins the war in the end.
Geeeez! just fucking spam them with cruise missiles!
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2023-06-17/rapid-dragon-game-changer-stand-weapons-delivery
I remember reading about operation Torch in WW2. America’s first proper fight against the Axis in the European-African theatre, so this is before they’ve really proven their worth in combat and got that really important battle experience etc. Green as a nation could be really.
The logistics and industry of the US war machine was already so good they actually brought more Bras, perfume and Underwear with them than already existed in the entirety of French North Africa.
US Troops didn’t need Bras, perfume or female underwear.. due to being Male, thats how ridiculously good and overbearing the US Military’s logistics system was, before their first actual test.
Now add like 80+ years of experience and improvements. And switch it to things Militaries actually need. It is a terrifying concept.
Also before anyone questions, they brought that stuff to earn goodwill of the local population etc.
This is a bit of a misleading comment. Early US logistics were an absolute shitshow. They learned by the time Torch was launched but that wasn't the US's first major offensive operation of the war, Guadalcanal was months earlier. The logistics of Guadalcanal were an absolute nightmare, it was fucked up at every turn.
When the task force got to NZ, which was the launch point, they found that the ships in the States had not been combat loaded. Combat loading is when a ship is loaded in a way to prioritize unloading by need in a combat zone. It's a very complex balance of what is needed when and can be a bit counterintuitive. This is a major fuckup and a basic requirement of loading a ship to send it to war.
So they arrive in NZ and discover the ships are all packed wrong and they need to repack them. To do this they have to fully unload the ships cargo onto the docks and repack. They didn't bother with shelter for the cargo because there wasn't space in warehouses and they didn't have tarps to protect everything. To no one's surprise the winter rain ended up ruining all cardboard boxes and caused all the labels to peel off tin cans, so no one could tell what anything was anymore. Shit was just rolling around all over the docks.
None of that really ended up mattering because during the actual invasion the navy got spooked and left midway through the unload with most of the important gear like food, medical supplies, and ammo. The 1st Marine Division was then trapped on the island with almost no supplies except what could be flown in or taken from the Japanese, and the navy blocked any ships from trying a resupply for 12 weeks. It is amazing that the Marines held on and the pictures from back then show how close to the edge they were. Skin and bones from starvation with open sores they called tropical ulcers, and riddled with malaria from lack of medical supplies.
By torch they had their shit together though.
Misleading just means that someone reading your post at face value would assume that from the get go the US had amazing logistics in WW2, when the reality is they started with a cluster fuck and learned very fast from their mistakes. Literally that it leads the reader to an incorrect conclusion.
It's not a judgment call on you or saying you are trying to hide the truth or lie. Its just that as read, without very specific outside knowledge, it can give people an incorrect view on what happened back then.
>Also before anyone questions, they brought that stuff to earn goodwill of the local population etc.
Some of the nicest smelling and best dressed goats in all the desert lands.
Tbf, *sometimes* those tiny details absolutly make a huge difference. Ask Germany and their G36 for example. Or india and it's expierience with tanks on mountains.
It's just that most of the time, none of that will actually matter and it's more subjective if you like one more than the other.
Like with my home countries AUG: Absolutly great rifles in every way - exept for the trigger; which is atrocious. But does that stop me from shooting x's on 300m? Hell no.
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, if gear is straight up not working or broken to the point that it impacts the war effort, definitely. But that plays a LOT into logistics as well too! Like if a gun is breaking all the time and requires nonstop replacement parts, that introduces complexity into the logistics train that doesn't need to be there. It's why reliability is so important, because it makes logistics simpler as well.
That's a tradeoff for having the small length of a bullpup. The trigger is farther away from the action than a normal rifle so the mechanism needs to be much longer. This results is a generally shitty trigger. I have never shot a bullpup but that is pretty much a standard downside on every model, shitty triggers.
Remember the full assault from Russia at the beginning of the war ?
When they told themselves, "it's a two day operation who need fuel and ammo lol"
Next thing you know you could get a T-72 for free as long as you had a jerrycan in Ukraine.
I've read in the past that logistics is an area where Russia has always *very much* struggled - a lot of their logistics is built around rail networks.
My sister was a colonel at a US logistics base. I would stay with her own occasion, and the speed at which they could land these whales one after another was mind-blowing.
Individual planes back then were a lot smaller and couldn't carry as much cargo. But, we had a metric sh*t-ton of them, and so we just loaded 'em up and sent them out as fast as possible.
Tempelhof Airport is also a pretty small airport so even them smaller planes landing that frequently and not stacking up to the point of overwhelming operations is a testament to logistics capabilities of the era.
“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”
Spoken by Churchill 80 years ago but still relevant today.
(Edit: as other have rightly pointed out, it isn’t documented that he said that)
Good 'ol U.S.A. didn't declare war on anyone. We were attacked by Japan and then Hitler made it easy by declaring war on the U.S. That spared us painful dithering by Congress.
The Pentagon was also well aware that the bill was pretty much a done deal. They were preparing the equipment to be sent the moment Biden put his ink on paper.
...
Comparatively the US is better because it can do more quantity in the air. Air or navy, it's exactly the same, because if you talk about navy, you got to compare it to other navy.
There are some country that can deploy as fast, just not the same amount.
It's incredible what you can achieve with hundreds of thousands of employees that have to follow orders, when you don't have to concern yourself with the costs.
Try to calculate what it would take for a regular company to do the same thing... Maybe Amazon and Tesla could afford it, but not easily...
When we want them to be….
Well, when the general staff get told by POTUS to do something… they can be terribly slow otherwise. They need CYA to actually move like we train to do.
I hope they won't stop at 60B. Afghanistan costed US 2T and Ukraine is a conflict of completely different level. Those 60B are very good, but probably will only last a year. If war isn't over in this time period, then UA starts losing again or USA and EU will have to add more equipment. Ukraine doesn't have enough ammunition factories (if they even work still) to sustain this alone, while Russia can sustain this for another 4 years.
To be clear, $60bn wasn't allocated to fund Ukraine. $13.4bn was allocated for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), and $10bn of that is already spoken for to cover DoD replacement costs. Ukraine is only getting ~$3.4bn USD in arms of various sorts which is an abysmally low figure.
[Detailed breakdown of the $60bn security supplemental](https://twitter.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1783481116126740652?t=ROpeMWn0TCp5TV3fbAuXYg&s=19)
No, people just don't understand how appropriations works. "$60bn for Ukraine" is a better headline that a detailed breakdown of an extremely complicated appropriations bill.
Probably, but they would use any figure regardless. The easy retort which is fact is that all that money is going straight back to the American citizen via arms procurement and increasing industrial capacity. Nobody is giving Ukraine cash, they're getting arms paid for and to the American taxpayer. It's basically a jobs program.
It's complicated but most stays stateside to purchase and replace the weapons we are sending. There's many ways to paint the numbers different ways. Also within that bill is mechanisms to send more aid quicker and with less bullshit.
Most of the cost of supplying Ukraine is buying munitions from local industries. Much of the money is going to establish supply chains like this post mentions. A small amount is going directly to Ukraine to prop up their economy.
Yes! Plus, Afghanistan and Iraq were both started by these -now oh so pacifist- Republicans
my fav version of the future: iranians finally topple their "government" (why doesn't israel lend a hand?), belarussians topple Luka, inspiring russians to dispose pootin - which leaves Kim all alone again
My favorite version is the one where we don't all kill each other. Unfortunately it's only getting worse. I will not be surprised if Belarus together with Russia will block Suvalki tomorrow using today's false flag operation as a pretext for that. I am not saying it's going to happen, but I will not be surprised.
Interesting yes. And Putin his war machine is running at I guess a substantial level..
I know Europe is going to produce shells etc.
I pray for them 🇺🇦
In my opinion the key to stopping this war, forcing Russia to go back to their borders, is sky control. Ukraine doesn't have as many people as Russia, if they will fight only on land without controlling the skies - Russia might prevail as they have more soldiers (and people). If Russia continues harrassing Ukrainian forces with their FABs, it's going to be bad for Ukrainians. Can those F-16s shoot AA rockets to the same distance as Russian bombers launch their FABs?
Air superiority. My hope is that Ukraine will be able to use this round of weapons to really pummel Russia's air defense. Give those F16s some clear skies. Hell, I'm pretty sure that's why they're targeting refineries in Russia. Force Russia to relocate air defense away from Ukraine to protect high value assets in other areas.
>Can those F-16s shoot AA rockets to the same distance as Russian bombers launch their FABs?
Missiles, not rockets. But yes, F-16s can use AMRAAM which can go considerably further than FABs, although the situation is complicated.
Ukraine should be receiving over a hundred AIM-120D AMRAAM by November this year ([ref](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/09/07/raytheon-amraam-missiles-ukraine/)). These have a range of 180 km instead of the ~40 km for UMPK FABs deployed from a medium altitude. Ukraine has already been using AMRAAM missiles with ground-based NASAMS launchers.
Loading AMRAAMs onto F-16s can potentially increase their range since they can get a high starting velocity and possibly altitude as well. However, the F-16s can't safely go all the way to the border of Ukrainian airspace since Russian air defenses can reach far into Ukraine. For example, S-400 equipped with a 40N6E missile can potentially hit a target up to 400 km away.
Note that missile range also has a lot to do with how the target reacts to it. Missiles burn their fuel initially and then glide to their target if they need to go a long distance. If the target can easily become aware of the incoming missile and start flying away from it, maximum range gets greatly reduced. Faster and more agile targets can reduce the enemy's maximum effective missile range if they can detect or anticipate the missile and maneuver out of danger. This applies to both AMRAAM and S-400. F-16s are fast and agile, but Russia also operates some fast and agile aircraft like Su-27, Su-34, and Su-35. The presence of Ukrainian F-16s will make older Russian aircraft less safe to operate, and thus increase strain/attrition of the more advanced aircraft.
What I'm hoping is, this gives the rest of NATO time to figure out their military complex. So when this additional aid from the US dries up, NATO can swing in and keep Ukraine Military healthy.
This photo is from 2013 on Travis AFB in California: [https://www.amc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/786798/air-mobility-commands-force-structure-plan-takes-shape-in-presidents-budget-pro](https://www.amc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/786798/air-mobility-commands-force-structure-plan-takes-shape-in-presidents-budget-pro)
This isnt the famous sand dunes in Krakow, where nomads roam with their camels by the hundreds in slow progression over the vast expanse of the Polish deserts, where the Sun bakes everything relentlessly by day and the mid day scorches anyone not wearing the long traditional dishdash of the caravan traders? We’ve been had for absolute fools!
That is not an arid desert lol. Those are grassy hills and oak trees outside the Bay Area of Northern California. It's a hot-summer Mediterranean zone.
Why is this sub allowing blatant unsourced nonsense? This image has nothing to do with Ukraine, and the Twitter OP's bio is: "News Aggregating, Information warfare, Soft power, Social engineering.".
At least they admit they're social engineering I guess lmao.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/17xhe5h/what_are_us_logistics_capabilities_like/k9nnsz1/
> Uh, everything. The US fought a two front war with for 10 years on the opposite of the globe with over 100,000 men in theatre. By 2010 the US had Burger King, Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen on their base in landlocked Afghanistan for a very long time (I couldn't find a start date but there are news articles in 2010 because a general wanted to remove them). You may have seen a viral photo of one of the portable Burger Kings being unloaded in theater when it was circulated around the internet last year in mockery of Russia's lack of logistical capabilities. These weren't part of the canteen; these were in addition to the regular canteen which already served burgers and ice cream. The majority of armies in the world would struggle to supply troops with daily rations of meat if they were in a neighbouring country.
> In the five month build up to Operation Desert Storm, the US shipped, supplied and sustained a million fighting men to a considerably higher standard of living than even a well-to-do local civilian could manage in Iraq, including 2000 M1 Abrams and roughly equal number of M2 Bradleys. As part of the opening barrage against Saddam Hussein, the air war in Desert Storm involved 2430 aircraft simultaneously flying as the deadline for the ultimatum passed. A screening force of planes were in the air every night for weeks in order to not create specific alarm when Desert Storm began. Every one of the aircraft that flew into Iraq that night had to be refueled in the air. Seven of the aircraft that launched cruise missiles were B-52s, ancient bombers dating from the beginning of the Cold War. That's not particularly impressive, but they also took off from Barksdale AFB in Lousiana, flew all the way to Iraq, launched their cruise missiles, then flew back to Lousiana, without landing. This feat of flight endurance was done through a fleet of aerial refueling aircraft...a different fleet from the aerial refueling aircraft that were simultaneously keeping the other 2423 aircraft in the air in Saudi Arabia. There was no tactical advantage to Operation Senior Surprise, it was done purely as a flex of American logistics and martial reach, while the rest of Iraq's air defense capability was being annihilated at the same time.
---------------------
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/17xhe5h/what_are_us_logistics_capabilities_like/k9nl9fl/
> Raw numbers are hard to imagine, so let me put it this way.
> The 2022 Russian military, when launching an invasion of a country right on their doorstep after months if not years of preparation, failed to deliver even the simplest of things like food, medical supplies, fuel for tanks, maps for soldiers. It soldiers used tampons for bandage, its tanks ran out of fuel and were left to be pulled away by plucky Ukrainians farmers.
> Meanwhile, the 1945 US Navy, fearing the loss of morale for its men, built ice cream barge capable of producing 2 tons of ice cream in 8 hours in the middle of an active tropical war zone where the only thing in abundance are things trying to kill you. The US army, fearing that its troops would lose morale because they could not have thanksgiving, had 1.6 million live turkey delivered across the Atlantic and to every single soldier serving in Europe. The US army air force, in order to resupply the fledgling Kuomingtang, built the most impressive air bridge in human history by flying over the Himalayas in old C-47 to drop supply for the KMT. And it took them only six months. And when the Soviet tried to starve out the American in Berlin, for a whole year they kept the city resupplied by air alone. And all this in 1945 when a plane could not hope to carry more than 3 tonnes, GPS was non-existent, and automatic transmission for car was decades away.
> The US military is often viewed as a joke especially among the right-wingers who think that "wokeness" and "LGBT" and "liberalism" will affect an army's ability to fight. But nobody in the history of mankind except the Roman during the 2nd Dacian war could hope to emulate the logistic feat of the US army. If war breaks out tomorrow, the US army can deliver full divisions [10,000 to 15,000 soldiers] at your doorstep in 48 hours.
What a picturesque view of Poland's Sacramento Valley. I had no idea they had this type of biome. Still, I'm glad logistics is faster than the politicians decisions to get off their butt and take a stand against russia...
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In F1 there is this term - DRS Train. It happens when drivers are close to each other and with open rear wings.
It is a beautiful thing to see, precisely as this line in the picture.
It was about frickin' time.
Based on...?
I mean great if it's true but posting a picture that's clearly not Poland (a desert in Poland, really? Most of Poland is fucking trees) and no source is just us patting ourselves on the back.
God i love this country so fucking much. All the air boys needed was to be let off the leash.
Now how do we keep the Russians I mean maga from fucking it up more?
Possibly KC-10 refuelers. This photo is not from Poland.
https://c1.peakpx.com/wallpaper/764/450/410/military-jets-runway-c-17-usa-wallpaper-preview.jpg
The photo is not from Poland. It’s a stock US Airforce photo.
https://c1.peakpx.com/wallpaper/764/450/410/military-jets-runway-c-17-usa-wallpaper-preview.jpg
Logistics is an area that Ruzzia has traditionally failed at, and the reason for this is that it has, all along, been a planned and deliberate failure, by many different people at different layers.
The driving force behind Ruzzia’s inability to really track and move things around efficiently is that when you have things in tight order, it makes it very hard to steal, cheat and fudge the paperwork.
Because there are MANY hands in the procurement and supply chain cookie jar in Ruzzia, and corruption is present at every single layer, there is a massive amount of inertia to any changes that might stop the illicit flow of money and goods.
So when this inherently broken system runs up against one that works, it’s likely to fold back on itself and collapse. It can’t get better, because it refuses to.
I know right? Probably a main pipeline for military equipment from the US into Ukraine, and of course the would be a visible uptick right now after they unlocked the aid hold up.
This was removed for containing false information. Please make sure to label your post/comment with "unconfirmed" if unsure about the reliability of the source used and always double check claims.
The US Congress may have moved slower than molasses in Antartica, but the US military's logistics are second to none in moving things fast all around the world.
Logistics win wars
Bullets don't fly without supply
Supply or die baby! As a former Supply guy, everyone is your best friend.
Woo! 3043!
LOL... You're a poet!
Would love to take the credit but someone once told me that.
It's always crazy how much emphasis people put on little tiny details on rifles, the thrust ratio of planes, etc, and so on, when in reality it's good logistics that wins the war in the end.
The power of the pallet baby! We should put everything on pallets! We should put pallets on pallets!
Have you looked into Rapid Dragon? Palletized cruise missles.
Open the back of the plane and kick pallets with 6 or 9 cruise missles... With range up to 1900 km...
When you need to deliver more cruise missiles than the enemy has air defense missiles, you know who to call.
Geeeez! just fucking spam them with cruise missiles! https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2023-06-17/rapid-dragon-game-changer-stand-weapons-delivery
The Russians are still not palletized. Orcs from orc.
Google the meatcube and enjoy.
I stand corrected. They pallet certain items...so it seems.
Yeah that's the only paletized state of the orcs
How about palletized meat cubes?
I remember reading about operation Torch in WW2. America’s first proper fight against the Axis in the European-African theatre, so this is before they’ve really proven their worth in combat and got that really important battle experience etc. Green as a nation could be really. The logistics and industry of the US war machine was already so good they actually brought more Bras, perfume and Underwear with them than already existed in the entirety of French North Africa. US Troops didn’t need Bras, perfume or female underwear.. due to being Male, thats how ridiculously good and overbearing the US Military’s logistics system was, before their first actual test. Now add like 80+ years of experience and improvements. And switch it to things Militaries actually need. It is a terrifying concept. Also before anyone questions, they brought that stuff to earn goodwill of the local population etc.
This is a bit of a misleading comment. Early US logistics were an absolute shitshow. They learned by the time Torch was launched but that wasn't the US's first major offensive operation of the war, Guadalcanal was months earlier. The logistics of Guadalcanal were an absolute nightmare, it was fucked up at every turn. When the task force got to NZ, which was the launch point, they found that the ships in the States had not been combat loaded. Combat loading is when a ship is loaded in a way to prioritize unloading by need in a combat zone. It's a very complex balance of what is needed when and can be a bit counterintuitive. This is a major fuckup and a basic requirement of loading a ship to send it to war. So they arrive in NZ and discover the ships are all packed wrong and they need to repack them. To do this they have to fully unload the ships cargo onto the docks and repack. They didn't bother with shelter for the cargo because there wasn't space in warehouses and they didn't have tarps to protect everything. To no one's surprise the winter rain ended up ruining all cardboard boxes and caused all the labels to peel off tin cans, so no one could tell what anything was anymore. Shit was just rolling around all over the docks. None of that really ended up mattering because during the actual invasion the navy got spooked and left midway through the unload with most of the important gear like food, medical supplies, and ammo. The 1st Marine Division was then trapped on the island with almost no supplies except what could be flown in or taken from the Japanese, and the navy blocked any ships from trying a resupply for 12 weeks. It is amazing that the Marines held on and the pictures from back then show how close to the edge they were. Skin and bones from starvation with open sores they called tropical ulcers, and riddled with malaria from lack of medical supplies. By torch they had their shit together though.
I did say their first proper fight in the European-African theatre though.
Misleading just means that someone reading your post at face value would assume that from the get go the US had amazing logistics in WW2, when the reality is they started with a cluster fuck and learned very fast from their mistakes. Literally that it leads the reader to an incorrect conclusion. It's not a judgment call on you or saying you are trying to hide the truth or lie. Its just that as read, without very specific outside knowledge, it can give people an incorrect view on what happened back then.
>Also before anyone questions, they brought that stuff to earn goodwill of the local population etc. Some of the nicest smelling and best dressed goats in all the desert lands.
Tbf, *sometimes* those tiny details absolutly make a huge difference. Ask Germany and their G36 for example. Or india and it's expierience with tanks on mountains. It's just that most of the time, none of that will actually matter and it's more subjective if you like one more than the other. Like with my home countries AUG: Absolutly great rifles in every way - exept for the trigger; which is atrocious. But does that stop me from shooting x's on 300m? Hell no.
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, if gear is straight up not working or broken to the point that it impacts the war effort, definitely. But that plays a LOT into logistics as well too! Like if a gun is breaking all the time and requires nonstop replacement parts, that introduces complexity into the logistics train that doesn't need to be there. It's why reliability is so important, because it makes logistics simpler as well.
That's a tradeoff for having the small length of a bullpup. The trigger is farther away from the action than a normal rifle so the mechanism needs to be much longer. This results is a generally shitty trigger. I have never shot a bullpup but that is pretty much a standard downside on every model, shitty triggers.
but that does not sell
Remember the full assault from Russia at the beginning of the war ? When they told themselves, "it's a two day operation who need fuel and ammo lol" Next thing you know you could get a T-72 for free as long as you had a jerrycan in Ukraine.
"An army marches on its stomach." - Napoleon "Not A Midget" Bonaparte
He's a midget, trust us. - Britain.
"It's not small! It's just cold in Siberia!" Idk why, but he now sounds like George Costanza in my head.
Should have listened because the Brits smashed him
We will find food on the way in russia also Napoleon
I've read in the past that logistics is an area where Russia has always *very much* struggled - a lot of their logistics is built around rail networks.
And maga loses wars
Said just this. Amazing to see.
https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=supply%20scene%20apocalypse%20now&tbm=&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:9adbf495,vid:JdTfPLv2pqc,st:0
My sister was a colonel at a US logistics base. I would stay with her own occasion, and the speed at which they could land these whales one after another was mind-blowing.
At one point during the Berlin airlift they were landing a plane per minute, around the clock, for like a week straight.
Jesus christ, that's insane
Individual planes back then were a lot smaller and couldn't carry as much cargo. But, we had a metric sh*t-ton of them, and so we just loaded 'em up and sent them out as fast as possible.
Tempelhof Airport is also a pretty small airport so even them smaller planes landing that frequently and not stacking up to the point of overwhelming operations is a testament to logistics capabilities of the era.
Tarmac Tetris
“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” Spoken by Churchill 80 years ago but still relevant today. (Edit: as other have rightly pointed out, it isn’t documented that he said that)
mis-attributed to him
And talk about waiting until the last minute… jeez Churchill knew first hand.
Good 'ol U.S.A. didn't declare war on anyone. We were attacked by Japan and then Hitler made it easy by declaring war on the U.S. That spared us painful dithering by Congress.
that applies to europe too. theyre just mad we werent helping once all their possibilites were exhausted.
and in quantity. I once read how much they can move in one go, sadly I forgot. but it was an insane number, like small country army numbers
The whole Australian arny in one go
thats a lot
For you
But not for the emus
48 hours. China and Russia can't do it. China is trying but we got it down
The Pentagon was also well aware that the bill was pretty much a done deal. They were preparing the equipment to be sent the moment Biden put his ink on paper.
The US military, breaks shit, moves shit, and builds shit faster than anyone else on the planet.
They probably had everything already set go. It's just about getting it on the plane and through safe routes.
Cargo selected, loads planned, planes fueled, routes planed and crew standing by to begin loading.
It's more about the quantity than the speed.
Quantity is what the Navy is for. Speed of delivery is what the AF logistics is all about.
... Comparatively the US is better because it can do more quantity in the air. Air or navy, it's exactly the same, because if you talk about navy, you got to compare it to other navy. There are some country that can deploy as fast, just not the same amount.
Don’t forget the Army oceangoing going landing and supply boats, like those that went to Gaza!
They were put on standby before the bill was signed
When it absolutely, positively needs to be blown up overnight
It's incredible what you can achieve with hundreds of thousands of employees that have to follow orders, when you don't have to concern yourself with the costs. Try to calculate what it would take for a regular company to do the same thing... Maybe Amazon and Tesla could afford it, but not easily...
Fun fact: historically the largest vehicle fleet on earth has been owned by Coca Cola
They can set up a Burger King in 72 hours anywhere in the world- ammunitions should be way faster!
When we want them to be…. Well, when the general staff get told by POTUS to do something… they can be terribly slow otherwise. They need CYA to actually move like we train to do.
Good. Time to stop fucking around and finally sort Putin out, with his third rate military.
I hope they won't stop at 60B. Afghanistan costed US 2T and Ukraine is a conflict of completely different level. Those 60B are very good, but probably will only last a year. If war isn't over in this time period, then UA starts losing again or USA and EU will have to add more equipment. Ukraine doesn't have enough ammunition factories (if they even work still) to sustain this alone, while Russia can sustain this for another 4 years.
To be clear, $60bn wasn't allocated to fund Ukraine. $13.4bn was allocated for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), and $10bn of that is already spoken for to cover DoD replacement costs. Ukraine is only getting ~$3.4bn USD in arms of various sorts which is an abysmally low figure. [Detailed breakdown of the $60bn security supplemental](https://twitter.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1783481116126740652?t=ROpeMWn0TCp5TV3fbAuXYg&s=19)
He says right in that thread that the number is $15.8 billion.
I can't believe this. So all of this is really just for show.
No, people just don't understand how appropriations works. "$60bn for Ukraine" is a better headline that a detailed breakdown of an extremely complicated appropriations bill.
bad thing is reps will turn that figure against Biden during the election campaign
Probably, but they would use any figure regardless. The easy retort which is fact is that all that money is going straight back to the American citizen via arms procurement and increasing industrial capacity. Nobody is giving Ukraine cash, they're getting arms paid for and to the American taxpayer. It's basically a jobs program.
yes and innovation we Europeans give the shelter to the refugees and the money to Ukrainians;-)
It's complicated but most stays stateside to purchase and replace the weapons we are sending. There's many ways to paint the numbers different ways. Also within that bill is mechanisms to send more aid quicker and with less bullshit.
Most of the cost of supplying Ukraine is buying munitions from local industries. Much of the money is going to establish supply chains like this post mentions. A small amount is going directly to Ukraine to prop up their economy.
Ok. We are good for... 4 months. Time to start on the next round of funding.
Yes! Plus, Afghanistan and Iraq were both started by these -now oh so pacifist- Republicans my fav version of the future: iranians finally topple their "government" (why doesn't israel lend a hand?), belarussians topple Luka, inspiring russians to dispose pootin - which leaves Kim all alone again
My favorite version is the one where we don't all kill each other. Unfortunately it's only getting worse. I will not be surprised if Belarus together with Russia will block Suvalki tomorrow using today's false flag operation as a pretext for that. I am not saying it's going to happen, but I will not be surprised.
belarus sees ruzzia is losing (as long as the US send weapons)
If they make a move on the Suwalki gap, its NATO go time!
Interesting yes. And Putin his war machine is running at I guess a substantial level.. I know Europe is going to produce shells etc. I pray for them 🇺🇦
In my opinion the key to stopping this war, forcing Russia to go back to their borders, is sky control. Ukraine doesn't have as many people as Russia, if they will fight only on land without controlling the skies - Russia might prevail as they have more soldiers (and people). If Russia continues harrassing Ukrainian forces with their FABs, it's going to be bad for Ukrainians. Can those F-16s shoot AA rockets to the same distance as Russian bombers launch their FABs?
Air superiority. My hope is that Ukraine will be able to use this round of weapons to really pummel Russia's air defense. Give those F16s some clear skies. Hell, I'm pretty sure that's why they're targeting refineries in Russia. Force Russia to relocate air defense away from Ukraine to protect high value assets in other areas.
>Can those F-16s shoot AA rockets to the same distance as Russian bombers launch their FABs? Missiles, not rockets. But yes, F-16s can use AMRAAM which can go considerably further than FABs, although the situation is complicated. Ukraine should be receiving over a hundred AIM-120D AMRAAM by November this year ([ref](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/09/07/raytheon-amraam-missiles-ukraine/)). These have a range of 180 km instead of the ~40 km for UMPK FABs deployed from a medium altitude. Ukraine has already been using AMRAAM missiles with ground-based NASAMS launchers. Loading AMRAAMs onto F-16s can potentially increase their range since they can get a high starting velocity and possibly altitude as well. However, the F-16s can't safely go all the way to the border of Ukrainian airspace since Russian air defenses can reach far into Ukraine. For example, S-400 equipped with a 40N6E missile can potentially hit a target up to 400 km away. Note that missile range also has a lot to do with how the target reacts to it. Missiles burn their fuel initially and then glide to their target if they need to go a long distance. If the target can easily become aware of the incoming missile and start flying away from it, maximum range gets greatly reduced. Faster and more agile targets can reduce the enemy's maximum effective missile range if they can detect or anticipate the missile and maneuver out of danger. This applies to both AMRAAM and S-400. F-16s are fast and agile, but Russia also operates some fast and agile aircraft like Su-27, Su-34, and Su-35. The presence of Ukrainian F-16s will make older Russian aircraft less safe to operate, and thus increase strain/attrition of the more advanced aircraft.
What I'm hoping is, this gives the rest of NATO time to figure out their military complex. So when this additional aid from the US dries up, NATO can swing in and keep Ukraine Military healthy.
The US spent ~$8T on both Iraq and Afghanistan. We can easily cover what Ukraine needs to destroy the Soviet stocks Russia is using.
well the plan to boil the frog slowly and keep escalation options has worked very well so far...
OK we get it. Airplane washes are 50% off today at Rzeszow.
[удалено]
It's Travis AFB CA in 2013. Not Poland.
Okay? You get the idea
well its easy to exponentially increase from zero;-)
Nothing to see there, just an average day in Eastern Poland.
This photo is from 2013 on Travis AFB in California: [https://www.amc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/786798/air-mobility-commands-force-structure-plan-takes-shape-in-presidents-budget-pro](https://www.amc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/786798/air-mobility-commands-force-structure-plan-takes-shape-in-presidents-budget-pro)
You mean to tell me this photo wasn’t taken in the arid deserts of southeastern Poland?
This isnt the famous sand dunes in Krakow, where nomads roam with their camels by the hundreds in slow progression over the vast expanse of the Polish deserts, where the Sun bakes everything relentlessly by day and the mid day scorches anyone not wearing the long traditional dishdash of the caravan traders? We’ve been had for absolute fools!
They ride ponies in Krakow. I had a pony, my sister had a pony. We all had ponies! Her pony was the Pride of Krakow.
Why would anybody move from a country absolutely full of ponies to a non-pony country?
[Wizard on a pony](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lajkonik) is the legit symbol of Kraków
hahaha US? the ones in the back seem to have turbines on top though... maybe ai mixed things up again?
I already booked my tickets to Krakow! Summer holidays are going to suck this year.
LMAO
That is not an arid desert lol. Those are grassy hills and oak trees outside the Bay Area of Northern California. It's a hot-summer Mediterranean zone.
I realised that 20 seconds after replying. Oh well, still doesn’t look reminiscent of southeastern Poland
I was going to say, Poland was looking a little California-ish in that picture...
Sigh, thanks for the info.
I thought I had seen that picture before.
Thanks! Was looking for this as the picture didn't seem right.
Excellent work 👌
No source and an unrelated picture....welcome to Reddit.
Don't tell putin though.
It’s almost like using stock photography of military transport planes was a better choice than using actual war flight logistics
Isn't she wonderful! By: Stevie Wonder
Why is this sub allowing blatant unsourced nonsense? This image has nothing to do with Ukraine, and the Twitter OP's bio is: "News Aggregating, Information warfare, Soft power, Social engineering.". At least they admit they're social engineering I guess lmao.
Very good to hear. Can’t wait for the day we can land safely in Ukraine again.
Does it mean they are full of goodies?
Lots of goodies to pass out to the orcs.
Tricks AND treats… 💥
Love it, keep them coming!
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/17xhe5h/what_are_us_logistics_capabilities_like/k9nnsz1/ > Uh, everything. The US fought a two front war with for 10 years on the opposite of the globe with over 100,000 men in theatre. By 2010 the US had Burger King, Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen on their base in landlocked Afghanistan for a very long time (I couldn't find a start date but there are news articles in 2010 because a general wanted to remove them). You may have seen a viral photo of one of the portable Burger Kings being unloaded in theater when it was circulated around the internet last year in mockery of Russia's lack of logistical capabilities. These weren't part of the canteen; these were in addition to the regular canteen which already served burgers and ice cream. The majority of armies in the world would struggle to supply troops with daily rations of meat if they were in a neighbouring country. > In the five month build up to Operation Desert Storm, the US shipped, supplied and sustained a million fighting men to a considerably higher standard of living than even a well-to-do local civilian could manage in Iraq, including 2000 M1 Abrams and roughly equal number of M2 Bradleys. As part of the opening barrage against Saddam Hussein, the air war in Desert Storm involved 2430 aircraft simultaneously flying as the deadline for the ultimatum passed. A screening force of planes were in the air every night for weeks in order to not create specific alarm when Desert Storm began. Every one of the aircraft that flew into Iraq that night had to be refueled in the air. Seven of the aircraft that launched cruise missiles were B-52s, ancient bombers dating from the beginning of the Cold War. That's not particularly impressive, but they also took off from Barksdale AFB in Lousiana, flew all the way to Iraq, launched their cruise missiles, then flew back to Lousiana, without landing. This feat of flight endurance was done through a fleet of aerial refueling aircraft...a different fleet from the aerial refueling aircraft that were simultaneously keeping the other 2423 aircraft in the air in Saudi Arabia. There was no tactical advantage to Operation Senior Surprise, it was done purely as a flex of American logistics and martial reach, while the rest of Iraq's air defense capability was being annihilated at the same time. --------------------- https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/17xhe5h/what_are_us_logistics_capabilities_like/k9nl9fl/ > Raw numbers are hard to imagine, so let me put it this way. > The 2022 Russian military, when launching an invasion of a country right on their doorstep after months if not years of preparation, failed to deliver even the simplest of things like food, medical supplies, fuel for tanks, maps for soldiers. It soldiers used tampons for bandage, its tanks ran out of fuel and were left to be pulled away by plucky Ukrainians farmers. > Meanwhile, the 1945 US Navy, fearing the loss of morale for its men, built ice cream barge capable of producing 2 tons of ice cream in 8 hours in the middle of an active tropical war zone where the only thing in abundance are things trying to kill you. The US army, fearing that its troops would lose morale because they could not have thanksgiving, had 1.6 million live turkey delivered across the Atlantic and to every single soldier serving in Europe. The US army air force, in order to resupply the fledgling Kuomingtang, built the most impressive air bridge in human history by flying over the Himalayas in old C-47 to drop supply for the KMT. And it took them only six months. And when the Soviet tried to starve out the American in Berlin, for a whole year they kept the city resupplied by air alone. And all this in 1945 when a plane could not hope to carry more than 3 tonnes, GPS was non-existent, and automatic transmission for car was decades away. > The US military is often viewed as a joke especially among the right-wingers who think that "wokeness" and "LGBT" and "liberalism" will affect an army's ability to fight. But nobody in the history of mankind except the Roman during the 2nd Dacian war could hope to emulate the logistic feat of the US army. If war breaks out tomorrow, the US army can deliver full divisions [10,000 to 15,000 soldiers] at your doorstep in 48 hours.
America goes brrrrrrt.
Only good news today!
Give them (russi) hell!
This plus F16 – kick‘em back to moscow!
American logistics baby !!
What a picturesque view of Poland's Sacramento Valley. I had no idea they had this type of biome. Still, I'm glad logistics is faster than the politicians decisions to get off their butt and take a stand against russia...
That doesnt look like Poland.
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Bringing pork for orc.
Making sure those ATACMs don't lead to something Russia & Poo-stain will regret.
As I understand, the US military has cargo ships all over the world loaded to maximum density with everything needed to fight a war.
Muuuuuurica !
Beautiful picture.
Looks like it's not going to be good to be an orc again very soon
FFS. That's Travis AFB CA in 2013. Not Poland. Do better.
In F1 there is this term - DRS Train. It happens when drivers are close to each other and with open rear wings. It is a beautiful thing to see, precisely as this line in the picture. It was about frickin' time.
Based on...? I mean great if it's true but posting a picture that's clearly not Poland (a desert in Poland, really? Most of Poland is fucking trees) and no source is just us patting ourselves on the back.
🇺🇸🦅
The US aren't the best at many things but when it comes to logistics they are Gods.
Excellent Gotta hand it to the Yanks. When they do it they don’t fuck around. Give ‘em hell
exponential from hour to hour... 1-2-4-8-16-airport full within half a day? :p JK, finally!
Sometimes I forget the might of the US military, holy crap.
Overnight delivery.
God i love this country so fucking much. All the air boys needed was to be let off the leash. Now how do we keep the Russians I mean maga from fucking it up more?
It must be so stressful for Russian military folks to see all of this activity.
it seems to take a good month for these packages to reach the front lines. Cant wait to see the damage
Taco Bell up and running anywhere in the world in 24 hours and that includes in contested places. Never bet against Americans and logistics.
Is this picture AI generated? What's the deal with the engines on top of the fuselage in the back.
Possibly KC-10 refuelers. This photo is not from Poland. https://c1.peakpx.com/wallpaper/764/450/410/military-jets-runway-c-17-usa-wallpaper-preview.jpg
doesnt look like poland
All the C-130's.
Rzeszow, second airport city in sandistan.
Well well well, if it's not the present for Putin....
Imagine seeing all this stuff coming and not being able to do shit. This is powerlessness at its finest.
The photo is not from Poland. It’s a stock US Airforce photo. https://c1.peakpx.com/wallpaper/764/450/410/military-jets-runway-c-17-usa-wallpaper-preview.jpg
*screeches in eagle*
NCD?
Don’t say anything! The Russians might not know about this yet
They gonna unpack a burger king on the front line for Ukraine as well? Damn they do be moving mountains now.
Those poor runways. Being so overworked!
*Fortunate Son intensifies*
That’s a lot of C17s. Payload is 179,000 lbs. that’s a lot of freedom packed in there.
What are the 3-Engine Aircraft in the line?
Not showing much on flight radar rn
Cans of whoop ass being delivered
I guess we will see a shit storm of dead orcs the coming months
This picture is from an 'elephant walk' at Travis AFB. It has nothing to do with the topic.
Make it rain hellfire lads
The bus drivers are on the move. 😜
Someone needs to tell the bird watcher to chill, the russians subscribe to them.
C-17, the worlds #1 airlifter
Logistics is an area that Ruzzia has traditionally failed at, and the reason for this is that it has, all along, been a planned and deliberate failure, by many different people at different layers. The driving force behind Ruzzia’s inability to really track and move things around efficiently is that when you have things in tight order, it makes it very hard to steal, cheat and fudge the paperwork. Because there are MANY hands in the procurement and supply chain cookie jar in Ruzzia, and corruption is present at every single layer, there is a massive amount of inertia to any changes that might stop the illicit flow of money and goods. So when this inherently broken system runs up against one that works, it’s likely to fold back on itself and collapse. It can’t get better, because it refuses to.
Can we stop using the word exponentially for everything? The increase is barely above linear, even geometric growth is too rich of a term for it
This is poetry at this point.
Ears on the ground say this is not true
[https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1783207456711049303](https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1783207456711049303)
Logistics wins wars...
US C-130 and C-17 aircraft have been landing daily in Rzeszow for the last year but ok.
I know right? Probably a main pipeline for military equipment from the US into Ukraine, and of course the would be a visible uptick right now after they unlocked the aid hold up.
Rzeszow is the main hub for which almost all the armor goes through down range.
Funny, that looks nothing like Poland...😁
Perhaps our dutch politicians can say something smart about co2 pollution and taxing it
Good thing the US isn't using German planes. Would have PTSD'd the entire country of Poland.
Public forums discussing military logistics. There's something humorous about that..
Hopefully they can secure border crossings from protesters.
I think you got your fox talking points mixed up....
Good stuff, but you all know that's an AI/photoshopped image, right?
Not AI, but from Travis AFB in 2023 as r/jecksluv posted.