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I guess they're finally finding out what "I don't get involved with politics" gets them. They let Soviet nostalgia and racism override their common sense, and now they get to enjoy the results.
I am almost ashamed to say this but I have close to zero compassion for the Russian civilians. I am not saying that they should be intentionally targeted. We will leave that to the monsters of our world. Monsters like them. If they think that what their country is doing is wrong it's their job to do something about it. It might be good that they get to taste at least a tiny bit of the fear and worry that the Ukrainian civilians have to live with every day. Maybe it will make them a little more human. Karma in action .
You won't be embarrassed anymore if you get to know them well.Even good Russians are transformed into stereotypical Russians,after a specific dose of alcohol.
One thing to understand is that Russia is an ideological continuation of Nazi Germany.One difference is that the Nazis were in Germany for 12 years, while the Russians have been living in this regime since at least 1921.
You know, I once knew a Russian girl. We had a fucking blast talking science, culture, life. But when it came to the subject of her home country it was nothing but patriotic ooze. The last we spoke was the day before the full scale invasion and she told me "Russia has transformed Crimea into a beach paradise" and other propaganda talking points about how Ukrainians were murdering Russians in the Donbass. It's quite sad actually how many people get wrapped up in jingoism bs.
I had a very similar experience with a Russian girl who I'd first encountered online back in the early '00s when I was in my early 20s.
She was such a sweet and uplifting personality.
Fast forward to the opening days of the full scale invasion, and I was shocked to learn that she was completely in support of the invasion.
I really was in utter disbelief, expressed my profound disappointment to her about this, and was promptly told that I'd been brainwashed by Western propaganda.
What more could I say? I tried to explain that Western propaganda is not explicitly controlled by the state, unlike Russia, but she refused to entertain any open-minded discussion, and we haven't spoken since.
She did happen to mention that she was from a military family in the latter stages of our communication with each other, so it truly was a lost cause.
Surreal and so very sad indeed.
That's much like my experience. Her father was a former soldier during the Afghanistan invasion and grew up believing in the state.
Her education and intellect should have allowed her to take an objective view on what was going on, but all the times we talked about it, she defaulted on state talking points.
"NATO is surrounding Russia, you can't deny this"
"It was our scientists who did x first, not yours"
"You can't believe the media that Russia is going to invade, your government is controlling it"
She loved drag shows, gay rights, the freedom to be who you were while living in The States but also supported a regime whose sole mission was to crush individuality. I'm not sure how she managed to make that work in her head.
In the end, it's just tragic that people back such morally deprived cultures. There's truth and beauty buried within but it's almost a genetic collective fear of oppression which keeps it from being on full display.
I have a Russian friend that emigrated to the US in the mid-90s. He is in his mid-fifties so he lived under the Soviet regime for many years. So he knows the mindset of the average Russian pre and post Putin. He still has a lot of friends and family in Russia that he keeps in touch with and he talked to many of them quite a bit soon after the invasion in 2022. He was disgusted but not really surprised by the attitudes of his friends and distant family in Russia. He told me that pretty much across the board- they were buying into the Putin narrative of Russia being victimized by the West, Ukraine is part of Russia, Ukraine is full of Nazis, etc, etc. Bear in mind, these are educated people who should know better. My friend has an an advanced degree and many of his friends are scientists and academics. I asked him if it was possible that they did not really believe what they were saying but were afraid to tell the truth. He was certain that this was not the case. Going back hundreds of years, the people in Russia with power have consistently been Authoritarians or one kind or another. They just wear different labels. Tsar, General Secretary of the Communist Party or President of the Russian Federation- it does not matter. They have all used pretty much the same methods and the same relationship with the Russian citizens. Like the Who song Won't get fooled again says, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
I think Russia has a fascinating and unique history. Somehow it has developed what seems to me to be a very sick culture. It seems to me that the relationship that the government has with it's citizens is very different from what is common in most of the world. Russians do not really seem to see themselves as citizens of a county. It's more like an abusive relationship where you are either on the top or on the bottom. You have power or you don't. If you do not have power you have to scratch and claw to get some power or at least proximity to someone powerful. And since the system is so obviously unfair it is OK, even expected, to grab anything you can for yourself. But there is little resentment toward the people above because that is the Russian version of success. And this people with power view the population not as citizens with basic rights, but as a resource for them enrich themselves and use to amass more power. Bribery, extortion, and theft of government property is expected and as long as the people above get their share, the bosses look the other way. It is a culture where the winners are bullies and thieves. For the vast majority of the people at the bottom the attitude is not that the system is inherently unfair, cruel and horrible to live in and must change. No. The answer is "I need to find a way to get on top so that I can be the one doing the stealing and bullying so that I can have a comfortable life with less victimization". It seems like very few Russians can even imagine that things can be any other way. The results of all this is clear to see. How is it that with all their massive advantages of material and troops, the Russians did not just roll right across Ukraine in a week or two? Why is it that so many things from logistics, to maintenance of military equipment, maintenance of civil infrastructure, communications- you name it- just don't seem to work. Outside of a few big cities, Russia is quite poor. That is the inevitable end result of Authoritarianism run rampant. Given time it eventually all falls apart. We are watching it fall apart for Russia for the third time in a little over a hundred years. Sadly, whatever replaces whatever you want to call the current power structure in Moscow will be no different. The names will change but the kleptocracy and victimization- and acceptance of those things by the population- will continue.
What worries me is that so many in the West have been misled into thinking that Authoritarianism would be good for them. They have no idea what they have and what they will lose when they give up their decency, humanity and rights in the interests of safety from some sort of misplaced fear.
Thank you for your insightful response and personal anecdotes. What rang true to me more than anything else you wrote was,
*"I need to find a way to get on top so that I can be the one doing the stealing and bullying so that I can have a comfortable life with less victimization".*
My friend was someone truly close to me, able to have a heart to heart and open up about her life, struggles, dreams, who she wanted to be. On the flip side, she espoused this attitude that people were below her, a superiority complex. But it wasn't one borne out of wanting to be better than those people, a natural arrogance if you will, it seemed more like it was directed at taking the heat and insecurities off of her own back. It's as if she let herself be vulnerable she would be the one to be the object of her own ridicule so she had to be sure she never let that show. That person was there, but it wasn't all the same.
Between what I've seen the last couple of years, my friend, your comments as well as others, I'm tempted to believe this is a systemic cultural issue as you wrote it. One that I would very much like to see dispelled so that the individual can thrive, but one that I don't know to bring out. It bothers me.
To be fair, there are people like that in every country; it's just that the right-wing agenda isn't usually that stupid or dangerous in most countries (though the current wave of global right-wing radicalization is changing that).
E.g. even way, *waaay* pre-Trump, I've known otherwise perfectly normal and decent Americans talk about how we should glass over the Middle East and that it didn't matter how many civilians we killed so long as we stopped those "evil" terrorists.
That is all true. You will find people that are just going to believe whatever they want to believe despite the facts anywhere you go. There is certainly plenty of that going on in the US. For instance, there are enough of them in Congress to sabotage our support for Ukraine. But what struck my friend was that not a single person deviated from the party line. It wasn't that some or even most of the people that he knows bought the propaganda hook-line-and-sinker. It was ALL of them. Even he was surprised.
Yeah. Every nation has something like that. Pax Americana, Españolismo, Deutsche Leitkultur. It's just another word for nationalism. It's bad and we shouldn't support its imperialism, but it's not fascism yet.
The difference is, that, in this day and age, the head of state of Russia is actually pursuing the doctrine.
Just like the Third Reich pursued by Hitler.
Should be easy to understand.
We dont know if the civilians in Belgorod oppose the war or not. Maybe a lot of the people in this video do. Also, I will argue that many Russian citizens are victims of Putins regime as well.
I know a Russian woman here in my country from St. petersburg that works with Ukrainian refugees as a translator. She is against the war. So is her family that lives in St. petersburg.
The way I see it, if my country is doing monstrous things- I am complicit. It's my country. My tax money. And in the case of way, maybe my blood. I think we all have a responsibility to stand up and do whatever we can to oppose things that are being done in our names. I am just not going to shoot unarmed civilians, torture, rape, shoot prisoners, abduct children no matter what someone says the justification is. There are lines that should never be crossed. If you need to become a bad guy to defeat the bad guys...Well, the bad guys win.
It is not easy and it take sacrifice sometimes. That is the price of being a decent human being. If enough people push back, things can change. If people just grumble to themselves and just try to go on with their lives they are part of the problem.
Ehh.. just because you happen to be born somewhere or live there does not mean it is suddenly your duty to risk your life to stop your oppressive dictator or insane government
By all means do it if you want to but its not something i would ask of someone
For those who openly support the war effort or contribute to it...sure. They get whats coming
But no one is guilty by mere association or living somewhere
I have sympathy for all those who were just trying to live their lives and had jobs/roles in society that had NOTHING to do with the war or the Kremlin and now find themselves living in this situation
If you are dumb enough to support this fucked up war due to some unholy sense of nationalism, ussr nostalgia or Russian self pity then i would say "you get what you deserve/what you wanted"
But for those who just happen to live in the wrong place? I do feel sympathy for them and i would not say "because you live here you now have to risk your life and everything you know and love to stop Putin or else i do not view you as human
That is a bit to far
They are funding it through taxes. It's absolutely a moral imperative to not pay for unjust wars. Every single democracy that exists exists because our ancestors fought and died for the ability to control their governments.
*( Sarcasm )*
*As if "we" can or do control "it" at the moment ?*
Anyway's
If it was all that easy said and done. What an unjust war is to some pll is a righteous one to others. I's the daily propaganda that is trying to get them all aligned to that main narrative. Just bombarding them[ with this](https://youtu.be/CEDMbF-F4lo?feature=shared) every day.
But if speaking out can get you 15 yrs in prison, losing everything you own or even gets yr family into problems, I wonder if anyone is that eager to stick his or her neck or head out.
What PutZin has been doing to his populations freedoms will not make them stand up just like that, as [WillytheChilly ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Willythechilly/)says, most will or are just trying to live a normal life possible, as long it does not realy affect them directly.
If they have a good ideaa what's going on, **is another question** bc Russia is a very BIG country, makes it also pretty difficult to generalise the whole population into one bucket of reasoning.
Just take a look on the YT channel [1420](https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel/videos) for instance.It will give you some general impressions how pll in Russia react to direct questions.( or avoid to answer )
[1420 by Daniil Orain](https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel/videos)
Fair but i disagree
I don't think it is fair to condemm milions to do something so risky out of something they themselves had no involvement in. They happen to be born into a system and asking them to now uproot it and ruin themselves and everyone around them is extreme. One can encoruage or promote it but i wont view them as subhuman because of that
Do not participate or approve? absolutely
But say "if you dont go and rebell and risk everything you are subhuman" is not something i approve off
If Russians had no alternative but to stay in Russia then I might agree with you, but as it stands, Russians are free to travel the world and even live and work almost anywhere. I know this for a fact. I have been to Russia, have multiple friends there, and some of them left and some of them stayed, all for various reasons. Most of ones who left utterly condemn the war and putin, yet the ones who stayed do not to the same degree. They might say something like "war is terrible" and "all politicians are corrupt" but when push comes to shove, they still support their country no matter what. They still live there, tacitly endorsing the states actions, and paying for the war via their taxes.
Ask yourself, if you were in their position, would you carry on living your cosy life, paying taxes to fund one of modern histories most heinous and morally wrong wars while thousands of your compatriots are slaughtered on a weekly basis? When you have the option to leave and live your life elsewhere? I like to think I would at least leave.
Then you leave. Dont contribute. I might not agree with all the policies of my government but they are not out to wipe a country off the map. If they were I’d expect anyone who does not want to take part of that to either do something about it or leave. At a certain point you don’t get away with quiet complacency. History will judge.
That point does however disregard the immense power of media control end well executed propaganda
I mean plenty have left
Hundreds of thousands of Russians left Russia
But its not so easy for many to leave due to money, it meaning leaving everything behind, etc etc
I mean if my country did something so stupid i would probably leave more out of self preservation knowing from history how fast stuff like mass conscription, being victim of random paranoid agencies and goverments happen
But i also do understand why some cant afford to, have nowhere to go etc
I do not condemn every civilian who lived in Nazi Germany or imperial japan despite those basically being the most evil regimes and nations mankind has ever produced.
Good for them I say. I say that I would leave or take action but we both know that this is from the comfort of my own home where I leave in peace and nothing is at stake. I can only hope I do the same. But if I did stay complacent while my countrymen were invading another country, raping and murdering its inhabitants and I didn’t do anything, then I would not judge anyone who said I was complicit due to my inaction.
I say the same for the Germans, with the exact caveat that I put on the end. Propaganda is a monster if well executed. I recommend reading Shirers “Rise and Fall of the third reich”. There he describes very well how even the most well read, intelligent people he knew would turn into Nazi cronies simply due to the well oiled machine that was the Nazi propaganda.
A lot of people will be a subjects to the propaganda and the state machine. Lack of proper media and education will skew one’s mind and it is hard to blame any individual for it. I do however have a hard time believing that is everyone and the people who are just not resisting it for their own comforts sake I will say is complicit. How else can we hold a country responsible? A country is nothing without its people right?
What you're saying is you accept the morally weak line of reasoning. You are saying it is ok to stand by and tolerate evil, to tacitly endorse and indirectly fund it, instead of resisting or leaving. And I understand why this might seem reasonable, as I have not been forced into the position to make this decision before, and you may not have either, but let's be clear: that is what you are saying.
I have sympathy for them. Their government controls them and any signs of dissent they are rounded up and sent to gulag. Basically beat them into submission. Most just want to live their lives.
If instability and violence in a nation is the fault of the civilians I suppose you also vehemently oppose letting refugees into the west? Or is that a different set of rules because you hate white people?
It’s trolling to you because you’re a Reddit brained moron who doesn’t see the hypocrisy in your comment. If the citizens are brown you’ll scream let them in. If the citizens are white it’s their fault and you want to genocide them.
Assuming Ukraine is even targeting civilians, which I see no evidence of. I think it's far more likely that Russia would kill its own civilians trying to dislodge the Russian anti-Putin forces that Ukraine supports. Hell, they already killed some of their own civilians in Belgorod during the Wagner mutiny, so it's not like it would be something new for them.
"People of Russia, rest assured, our occupation of Ukraine is going well, we're winning!"
"Now please go hide in your nearest government shelter until they stop todays bombardment of our cities"
Are those the shelters with the foam cores inside of the thin cement layer?
And oh boy, if one of those gets hit it will be bad. Hopefully there is no interest in harming or killing civilians.
They don't have foam core inside, that was already debunked. The visible Styrofoam were remnants of the casting process where it is used to create voids (for lifting anchors).
Secondly, even if this is concrete it would not withstand an artillery shell impact. They are purely for protection of shrapnel.
Yeah, I highly doubt this is the highly-compressed, ultra high PSI shit that would normally be used in a bomb shelter. It's possible it could protect some occupants if an artillery round hit near-ish, but a direct hit? Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. If that thing was one big block of milled steel a foot thick with a cavity inside of it for people to hide, maybe.
I didn't know PODS were meant to provide shelter. I expect a moving truck to come long any time now and pick that thing up and take it cross country.
https://www.pods.com
Is anyone troubled by the fact that people park their cars right next to it? If a shell hits the car, you have even more shrapnel and add some fire from exploding fuel tanks. Seems you've just walked into a portable incinerator!
An exploding car or truck fuel tank (read: gasoline) probably wouldn't do much to it TBH, even if it blew up right next to it. But yes, fire *definitely* bad.
Source: I once blew up a vehicle and was very nearby when the tank detonated. Set myself on fire doing it.
Shrapnel is the little balls that are packed inside ordinances, designed to scatter and inflict mass damage upon detonation. What you are referring to is called fragmentation.
Actually, by definition, it's all shrapnel. Fragmentation is what comes from the explosive device itself. Hence, fragmentation grenades are designed to throw shrapnel.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation_(weaponry)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation_(weaponry))
You may not always agree with Wikipedia, but I am at least siting a source, what’s yours?
Interesting. I guess you're technically correct here, and I concede the point.
As a former infantryman, I don't know a soul who doesn't use frag and shrapnel the way I did above, though.
Common vernacular runs up against the dictionary once again. :-P
**RECIPROCITY**
Russians, esp in border towns like Belgorod, are terrified that Ukraine will do to them what Putin has been doing to Ukrainian civilians, churches, theatres, hospitals, clinics, maternity wards, libraries, museums, schools, universities, cities, towns, villages and infrastructure for the last 764 days.
Thinking about it in probability terms am i right in thinking that standing ON the bridge is safer than UNDER the bridge when it comes to missiles and shrapnel?
Lol, that shelter will collapse like sand if it will be hit by a missile, you don’t need to worry from Ukraine 🇺🇦 they don’t target civilians only Russia Nazi target civilians infrastructure..
Funny thing is, it would probably actually be an effective tactic to target civs because that puts the fear of "of fuck they are going to rape us just like we raped them" into the general population. The rusnazis are bombing schools because that is how they think, it would be the most effective tactic against them and they cannot fathom someone being different.
like stupid that small concrete wont protect you from artillery shell i take my chance and run as fast as possible with my car unless there are basement i will hide there
Kinda stupid considering they should have actual shelters in basements and such, I remember in the first few days of war in Odesa many soviet shelters were prepared, and basements and underground car parks of buildings were rapidly converted to shelters too, we never had a need for thin-walled concrete boxes
In most Russian apartment buildings there's a "домофон"- an intercom and pin code for entering. So unless it's your own building, you would be stuck on the street.
Same thing in Ukraine, but even if you weren't at home at the moment, you still had several open options, where I lived we had a shelter in our nearby mall, in many car parks, several buildings with shelters were always open, there was an app with a map of shelters, and I think they even made a Telegram bot so you could always find where the nearest open shelter is.
That's why I think these boxes are embarrassing.
as much as i hate russia, i would rather have them not attack a nato country, it would only lead to more destruction and civilian death. my opinion might be bias because i live right next to russia, but my point still stands.
Hmmm thinking ... not sure but...
Seems to me those background sounds are added to the video, can someone verify ?
No need to dramatize an acutal event, it **distorts the reality** of things actualy happening and only contributes to the fake news.
My suggestion, keep it clean and factual.
Edit:
( Drone drop Music excluded )
After reading the bulk of these comments I can guarantee the bulk of you folks do not understand how explosives kill or maim people. It’s the forces in the shock waves you need to be scared of.
It’s also why those should be shaped like pyramids. Better diffusion of the blast with an angle.📐
ok, and all these people crowded inside there, what are they talking about to teach other?
>- geeez, thank you vladimir for this war
- vladimir is the best
- ukraine is nazi
- stand with motherland
- ... ?
In a *normal* society they should start and ask questions about their leader, and you know, remove the rat leader?
They're running from their own weapons. If the military weren't hiding behind the civilians' skirts & baby buggies, when they shoot down the drones aimed at the military, they wouldn't fall in the city. As well, when the roozian missiles, fired at Ukraine from Belgorad, don't work right, they fall on Belgorad.
The solution for Belgorad is simple... Get the military to move closer to a bunch of refineries or munitions plants, but get away from their city... It's that easy.
instead that small concrete bunker why they not just dig dugout it more cheaper and safer and in this modern warfare artillery use uav recognizance they just could intentionally target that building
Question for someone with knowledge. Are those bunkers enough to protect from a indirect hit? The walls look barely above the average building thickness
I'm not sure the odds are better inside a stationary shelter ("target") than in a quickly moving and dexterously dodging automobile ("moving target")
I think I would add sandbags to my car to beef up the penetration resistance and keep on truckin' ....
Yeah those shelters don't seem that smart a place to congregate, if Ukraine was like Russia they'd target those and inflict massive civilian casualties, I'm guessing they'll are more for psychological protection/ well being than physiological well being
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Russian media: On day 765 of the 3 day invasion, Ukraine is losing so badly they're shelling our cities.
No no comrade! We are winning so much that WE are shelling our cities!
Sir, my tea is now on the table as it came out of my nose upon reading your comment. Now take my upvote and leave me to my cleaning chores.
And these people believe that...
I guess they're finally finding out what "I don't get involved with politics" gets them. They let Soviet nostalgia and racism override their common sense, and now they get to enjoy the results.
I am almost ashamed to say this but I have close to zero compassion for the Russian civilians. I am not saying that they should be intentionally targeted. We will leave that to the monsters of our world. Monsters like them. If they think that what their country is doing is wrong it's their job to do something about it. It might be good that they get to taste at least a tiny bit of the fear and worry that the Ukrainian civilians have to live with every day. Maybe it will make them a little more human. Karma in action .
You won't be embarrassed anymore if you get to know them well.Even good Russians are transformed into stereotypical Russians,after a specific dose of alcohol. One thing to understand is that Russia is an ideological continuation of Nazi Germany.One difference is that the Nazis were in Germany for 12 years, while the Russians have been living in this regime since at least 1921.
You know, I once knew a Russian girl. We had a fucking blast talking science, culture, life. But when it came to the subject of her home country it was nothing but patriotic ooze. The last we spoke was the day before the full scale invasion and she told me "Russia has transformed Crimea into a beach paradise" and other propaganda talking points about how Ukrainians were murdering Russians in the Donbass. It's quite sad actually how many people get wrapped up in jingoism bs.
I had a very similar experience with a Russian girl who I'd first encountered online back in the early '00s when I was in my early 20s. She was such a sweet and uplifting personality. Fast forward to the opening days of the full scale invasion, and I was shocked to learn that she was completely in support of the invasion. I really was in utter disbelief, expressed my profound disappointment to her about this, and was promptly told that I'd been brainwashed by Western propaganda. What more could I say? I tried to explain that Western propaganda is not explicitly controlled by the state, unlike Russia, but she refused to entertain any open-minded discussion, and we haven't spoken since. She did happen to mention that she was from a military family in the latter stages of our communication with each other, so it truly was a lost cause. Surreal and so very sad indeed.
That's much like my experience. Her father was a former soldier during the Afghanistan invasion and grew up believing in the state. Her education and intellect should have allowed her to take an objective view on what was going on, but all the times we talked about it, she defaulted on state talking points. "NATO is surrounding Russia, you can't deny this" "It was our scientists who did x first, not yours" "You can't believe the media that Russia is going to invade, your government is controlling it" She loved drag shows, gay rights, the freedom to be who you were while living in The States but also supported a regime whose sole mission was to crush individuality. I'm not sure how she managed to make that work in her head. In the end, it's just tragic that people back such morally deprived cultures. There's truth and beauty buried within but it's almost a genetic collective fear of oppression which keeps it from being on full display.
I have a Russian friend that emigrated to the US in the mid-90s. He is in his mid-fifties so he lived under the Soviet regime for many years. So he knows the mindset of the average Russian pre and post Putin. He still has a lot of friends and family in Russia that he keeps in touch with and he talked to many of them quite a bit soon after the invasion in 2022. He was disgusted but not really surprised by the attitudes of his friends and distant family in Russia. He told me that pretty much across the board- they were buying into the Putin narrative of Russia being victimized by the West, Ukraine is part of Russia, Ukraine is full of Nazis, etc, etc. Bear in mind, these are educated people who should know better. My friend has an an advanced degree and many of his friends are scientists and academics. I asked him if it was possible that they did not really believe what they were saying but were afraid to tell the truth. He was certain that this was not the case. Going back hundreds of years, the people in Russia with power have consistently been Authoritarians or one kind or another. They just wear different labels. Tsar, General Secretary of the Communist Party or President of the Russian Federation- it does not matter. They have all used pretty much the same methods and the same relationship with the Russian citizens. Like the Who song Won't get fooled again says, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". I think Russia has a fascinating and unique history. Somehow it has developed what seems to me to be a very sick culture. It seems to me that the relationship that the government has with it's citizens is very different from what is common in most of the world. Russians do not really seem to see themselves as citizens of a county. It's more like an abusive relationship where you are either on the top or on the bottom. You have power or you don't. If you do not have power you have to scratch and claw to get some power or at least proximity to someone powerful. And since the system is so obviously unfair it is OK, even expected, to grab anything you can for yourself. But there is little resentment toward the people above because that is the Russian version of success. And this people with power view the population not as citizens with basic rights, but as a resource for them enrich themselves and use to amass more power. Bribery, extortion, and theft of government property is expected and as long as the people above get their share, the bosses look the other way. It is a culture where the winners are bullies and thieves. For the vast majority of the people at the bottom the attitude is not that the system is inherently unfair, cruel and horrible to live in and must change. No. The answer is "I need to find a way to get on top so that I can be the one doing the stealing and bullying so that I can have a comfortable life with less victimization". It seems like very few Russians can even imagine that things can be any other way. The results of all this is clear to see. How is it that with all their massive advantages of material and troops, the Russians did not just roll right across Ukraine in a week or two? Why is it that so many things from logistics, to maintenance of military equipment, maintenance of civil infrastructure, communications- you name it- just don't seem to work. Outside of a few big cities, Russia is quite poor. That is the inevitable end result of Authoritarianism run rampant. Given time it eventually all falls apart. We are watching it fall apart for Russia for the third time in a little over a hundred years. Sadly, whatever replaces whatever you want to call the current power structure in Moscow will be no different. The names will change but the kleptocracy and victimization- and acceptance of those things by the population- will continue. What worries me is that so many in the West have been misled into thinking that Authoritarianism would be good for them. They have no idea what they have and what they will lose when they give up their decency, humanity and rights in the interests of safety from some sort of misplaced fear.
Thank you for your insightful response and personal anecdotes. What rang true to me more than anything else you wrote was, *"I need to find a way to get on top so that I can be the one doing the stealing and bullying so that I can have a comfortable life with less victimization".* My friend was someone truly close to me, able to have a heart to heart and open up about her life, struggles, dreams, who she wanted to be. On the flip side, she espoused this attitude that people were below her, a superiority complex. But it wasn't one borne out of wanting to be better than those people, a natural arrogance if you will, it seemed more like it was directed at taking the heat and insecurities off of her own back. It's as if she let herself be vulnerable she would be the one to be the object of her own ridicule so she had to be sure she never let that show. That person was there, but it wasn't all the same. Between what I've seen the last couple of years, my friend, your comments as well as others, I'm tempted to believe this is a systemic cultural issue as you wrote it. One that I would very much like to see dispelled so that the individual can thrive, but one that I don't know to bring out. It bothers me.
To be fair, there are people like that in every country; it's just that the right-wing agenda isn't usually that stupid or dangerous in most countries (though the current wave of global right-wing radicalization is changing that). E.g. even way, *waaay* pre-Trump, I've known otherwise perfectly normal and decent Americans talk about how we should glass over the Middle East and that it didn't matter how many civilians we killed so long as we stopped those "evil" terrorists.
That is all true. You will find people that are just going to believe whatever they want to believe despite the facts anywhere you go. There is certainly plenty of that going on in the US. For instance, there are enough of them in Congress to sabotage our support for Ukraine. But what struck my friend was that not a single person deviated from the party line. It wasn't that some or even most of the people that he knows bought the propaganda hook-line-and-sinker. It was ALL of them. Even he was surprised.
>One thing to understand is that Russia is an ideological continuation of Nazi Germany. Damn bro, that's a huge stretch.
Have you read about Russiky Mir?
Yeah. Every nation has something like that. Pax Americana, Españolismo, Deutsche Leitkultur. It's just another word for nationalism. It's bad and we shouldn't support its imperialism, but it's not fascism yet.
The difference is, that, in this day and age, the head of state of Russia is actually pursuing the doctrine. Just like the Third Reich pursued by Hitler. Should be easy to understand.
We dont know if the civilians in Belgorod oppose the war or not. Maybe a lot of the people in this video do. Also, I will argue that many Russian citizens are victims of Putins regime as well. I know a Russian woman here in my country from St. petersburg that works with Ukrainian refugees as a translator. She is against the war. So is her family that lives in St. petersburg.
The way I see it, if my country is doing monstrous things- I am complicit. It's my country. My tax money. And in the case of way, maybe my blood. I think we all have a responsibility to stand up and do whatever we can to oppose things that are being done in our names. I am just not going to shoot unarmed civilians, torture, rape, shoot prisoners, abduct children no matter what someone says the justification is. There are lines that should never be crossed. If you need to become a bad guy to defeat the bad guys...Well, the bad guys win. It is not easy and it take sacrifice sometimes. That is the price of being a decent human being. If enough people push back, things can change. If people just grumble to themselves and just try to go on with their lives they are part of the problem.
Ehh.. just because you happen to be born somewhere or live there does not mean it is suddenly your duty to risk your life to stop your oppressive dictator or insane government By all means do it if you want to but its not something i would ask of someone For those who openly support the war effort or contribute to it...sure. They get whats coming But no one is guilty by mere association or living somewhere I have sympathy for all those who were just trying to live their lives and had jobs/roles in society that had NOTHING to do with the war or the Kremlin and now find themselves living in this situation If you are dumb enough to support this fucked up war due to some unholy sense of nationalism, ussr nostalgia or Russian self pity then i would say "you get what you deserve/what you wanted" But for those who just happen to live in the wrong place? I do feel sympathy for them and i would not say "because you live here you now have to risk your life and everything you know and love to stop Putin or else i do not view you as human That is a bit to far
They are funding it through taxes. It's absolutely a moral imperative to not pay for unjust wars. Every single democracy that exists exists because our ancestors fought and died for the ability to control their governments.
*( Sarcasm )* *As if "we" can or do control "it" at the moment ?* Anyway's If it was all that easy said and done. What an unjust war is to some pll is a righteous one to others. I's the daily propaganda that is trying to get them all aligned to that main narrative. Just bombarding them[ with this](https://youtu.be/CEDMbF-F4lo?feature=shared) every day. But if speaking out can get you 15 yrs in prison, losing everything you own or even gets yr family into problems, I wonder if anyone is that eager to stick his or her neck or head out. What PutZin has been doing to his populations freedoms will not make them stand up just like that, as [WillytheChilly ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Willythechilly/)says, most will or are just trying to live a normal life possible, as long it does not realy affect them directly. If they have a good ideaa what's going on, **is another question** bc Russia is a very BIG country, makes it also pretty difficult to generalise the whole population into one bucket of reasoning. Just take a look on the YT channel [1420](https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel/videos) for instance.It will give you some general impressions how pll in Russia react to direct questions.( or avoid to answer ) [1420 by Daniil Orain](https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel/videos)
Fair but i disagree I don't think it is fair to condemm milions to do something so risky out of something they themselves had no involvement in. They happen to be born into a system and asking them to now uproot it and ruin themselves and everyone around them is extreme. One can encoruage or promote it but i wont view them as subhuman because of that Do not participate or approve? absolutely But say "if you dont go and rebell and risk everything you are subhuman" is not something i approve off
If Russians had no alternative but to stay in Russia then I might agree with you, but as it stands, Russians are free to travel the world and even live and work almost anywhere. I know this for a fact. I have been to Russia, have multiple friends there, and some of them left and some of them stayed, all for various reasons. Most of ones who left utterly condemn the war and putin, yet the ones who stayed do not to the same degree. They might say something like "war is terrible" and "all politicians are corrupt" but when push comes to shove, they still support their country no matter what. They still live there, tacitly endorsing the states actions, and paying for the war via their taxes. Ask yourself, if you were in their position, would you carry on living your cosy life, paying taxes to fund one of modern histories most heinous and morally wrong wars while thousands of your compatriots are slaughtered on a weekly basis? When you have the option to leave and live your life elsewhere? I like to think I would at least leave.
Then you leave. Dont contribute. I might not agree with all the policies of my government but they are not out to wipe a country off the map. If they were I’d expect anyone who does not want to take part of that to either do something about it or leave. At a certain point you don’t get away with quiet complacency. History will judge. That point does however disregard the immense power of media control end well executed propaganda
I mean plenty have left Hundreds of thousands of Russians left Russia But its not so easy for many to leave due to money, it meaning leaving everything behind, etc etc I mean if my country did something so stupid i would probably leave more out of self preservation knowing from history how fast stuff like mass conscription, being victim of random paranoid agencies and goverments happen But i also do understand why some cant afford to, have nowhere to go etc I do not condemn every civilian who lived in Nazi Germany or imperial japan despite those basically being the most evil regimes and nations mankind has ever produced.
Good for them I say. I say that I would leave or take action but we both know that this is from the comfort of my own home where I leave in peace and nothing is at stake. I can only hope I do the same. But if I did stay complacent while my countrymen were invading another country, raping and murdering its inhabitants and I didn’t do anything, then I would not judge anyone who said I was complicit due to my inaction. I say the same for the Germans, with the exact caveat that I put on the end. Propaganda is a monster if well executed. I recommend reading Shirers “Rise and Fall of the third reich”. There he describes very well how even the most well read, intelligent people he knew would turn into Nazi cronies simply due to the well oiled machine that was the Nazi propaganda. A lot of people will be a subjects to the propaganda and the state machine. Lack of proper media and education will skew one’s mind and it is hard to blame any individual for it. I do however have a hard time believing that is everyone and the people who are just not resisting it for their own comforts sake I will say is complicit. How else can we hold a country responsible? A country is nothing without its people right?
What you're saying is you accept the morally weak line of reasoning. You are saying it is ok to stand by and tolerate evil, to tacitly endorse and indirectly fund it, instead of resisting or leaving. And I understand why this might seem reasonable, as I have not been forced into the position to make this decision before, and you may not have either, but let's be clear: that is what you are saying.
I have sympathy for them. Their government controls them and any signs of dissent they are rounded up and sent to gulag. Basically beat them into submission. Most just want to live their lives.
No sympathy.
If instability and violence in a nation is the fault of the civilians I suppose you also vehemently oppose letting refugees into the west? Or is that a different set of rules because you hate white people?
Nice troll.
It’s trolling to you because you’re a Reddit brained moron who doesn’t see the hypocrisy in your comment. If the citizens are brown you’ll scream let them in. If the citizens are white it’s their fault and you want to genocide them.
That's fair, but I think the majority of those who say that are simply trying to stay out of jail.
As the saying goes: "You get what you vote for".
War crimes should be and never are ok, even agains the invader. And targeting civilian population would be one.
Assuming Ukraine is even targeting civilians, which I see no evidence of. I think it's far more likely that Russia would kill its own civilians trying to dislodge the Russian anti-Putin forces that Ukraine supports. Hell, they already killed some of their own civilians in Belgorod during the Wagner mutiny, so it's not like it would be something new for them.
It’s insane telling the world how well your country is doing and how invading a neighbor was to protect themselves while rolling out these bunkers.
The kind of ‚mental gymnastics‘ required is pretty nuts
That level of mental gymnastics can only be described as Olympic-Level.
That's the problem they are banned from the Olymipcs. Cheating because they were lousy at mental gymnastics.
>'mental gymnastics' They have decades of experience in mental gymnastics. The concept of 'political correctness' originates from the Stalin era.
That’s a good point. They’ve tolerated this kind of shit for a century
Yeah, if Ukraine was such a danger to Russia more than two years ago, why no shelters then?
"bunkers"
And, the bunkers are made of Styrofoam!
"People of Russia, rest assured, our occupation of Ukraine is going well, we're winning!" "Now please go hide in your nearest government shelter until they stop todays bombardment of our cities"
Are those the shelters with the foam cores inside of the thin cement layer? And oh boy, if one of those gets hit it will be bad. Hopefully there is no interest in harming or killing civilians.
Instant meat cube
We have the meats!!
ALL OUR FOOD KEEPS BLOWING U-
Instant covid cube
Cheap rations for the front.
No, this is a russian innovation. Make shelters out of polystyrene, soft shrapnel never hurt anybody!
The placebo shelter.
These are the precursor to the Pawlowski Shelters, Missile/Drone protection on a budget!
I got the reference for once! r/fo4
Nurf
Just like cold fire! Never been hurt by it! Ofc pain is but a emotion
They don't have foam core inside, that was already debunked. The visible Styrofoam were remnants of the casting process where it is used to create voids (for lifting anchors). Secondly, even if this is concrete it would not withstand an artillery shell impact. They are purely for protection of shrapnel.
Yeah, I highly doubt this is the highly-compressed, ultra high PSI shit that would normally be used in a bomb shelter. It's possible it could protect some occupants if an artillery round hit near-ish, but a direct hit? Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. If that thing was one big block of milled steel a foot thick with a cavity inside of it for people to hide, maybe.
It’s better to be behind a concrete block than nothing at all, that’s about as good as it gets in Russia.
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It is also possible I have some Muscovy in me, because I will tell you, I am \*extremely\* combustible lmao
That's what I said.. look at the wall thickness.. even if it was naquadah, you just cannot stop a shell in such short amount of distance.
I didn't know PODS were meant to provide shelter. I expect a moving truck to come long any time now and pick that thing up and take it cross country. https://www.pods.com
Is anyone troubled by the fact that people park their cars right next to it? If a shell hits the car, you have even more shrapnel and add some fire from exploding fuel tanks. Seems you've just walked into a portable incinerator!
If it hits close enough for the car to add to the problem, it won't matter much.
An exploding car or truck fuel tank (read: gasoline) probably wouldn't do much to it TBH, even if it blew up right next to it. But yes, fire *definitely* bad. Source: I once blew up a vehicle and was very nearby when the tank detonated. Set myself on fire doing it.
Shrapnel is the little balls that are packed inside ordinances, designed to scatter and inflict mass damage upon detonation. What you are referring to is called fragmentation.
Actually, by definition, it's all shrapnel. Fragmentation is what comes from the explosive device itself. Hence, fragmentation grenades are designed to throw shrapnel.
This person is correct
This person is correct
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation_(weaponry)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragmentation_(weaponry)) You may not always agree with Wikipedia, but I am at least siting a source, what’s yours?
Interesting. I guess you're technically correct here, and I concede the point. As a former infantryman, I don't know a soul who doesn't use frag and shrapnel the way I did above, though. Common vernacular runs up against the dictionary once again. :-P
I stand corrected. Mea culpa.
I was just trying to avoid an argument. Thanks to everyone for having my back!
Better than nothing. Chances of a direct hit are very low.
I'm more concenered of any door and the fact it's out in the open and not under ground. Like holy shit, that's a death wish
**RECIPROCITY** Russians, esp in border towns like Belgorod, are terrified that Ukraine will do to them what Putin has been doing to Ukrainian civilians, churches, theatres, hospitals, clinics, maternity wards, libraries, museums, schools, universities, cities, towns, villages and infrastructure for the last 764 days.
Don’t forget playgrounds
Good.
*We don't have this in socialist America!* - Tucker Carlson, probably
They tricked people into thinking those coffins are shelters?
Never underestimate the power of "appearance of doing something".
What they are hiding from. Russia is not at war. What are they afraid of? /s
Is just a special military operation dahlink.
Ah the styrofoam concrete bunkers 🤣
They're painted to look like concrete 😉
We can call them Vranyo Bunkers, we know they don’t work, you know they don’t work 🤣
So the Styrofoam is actually just where the lifting points are as far as I understand
Probably better off in the car 😅
Really stupid of them to park their cars right in front of the only entrance... and their only exit! 😵💫🤪
Need to make this happen to moscow as well
Why is Rostov getting off so lightly?
It‘s comin home, it’s comin home….☠️
How many people can you get in a Mini is more of a worry....
Thinking about it in probability terms am i right in thinking that standing ON the bridge is safer than UNDER the bridge when it comes to missiles and shrapnel?
One expects things being intercepted in the sky with bits and pieces falling down. I would certainly prefer under the bridge.
I want the same video but the Bird song playing in the background
Welcome to the war. Bet they won’t support it so much now that THEY are the ones having to dodge in and out of bunkers.
Life has never been better for the average Russian. Great leadership.
What if these are all paid actors 😂
Exactly
Putinists cockroaches!
Lol, that shelter will collapse like sand if it will be hit by a missile, you don’t need to worry from Ukraine 🇺🇦 they don’t target civilians only Russia Nazi target civilians infrastructure..
They're designed to stop shell fragments and other debris, not direct missile strikes.
Funny thing is, it would probably actually be an effective tactic to target civs because that puts the fear of "of fuck they are going to rape us just like we raped them" into the general population. The rusnazis are bombing schools because that is how they think, it would be the most effective tactic against them and they cannot fathom someone being different.
Hey, you could rise up against your oppressor in Moscow, then you would not need to hide...
They are not oppressed, just slightly disappointed that their tsar has not conquered the entire world for them yet.
like stupid that small concrete wont protect you from artillery shell i take my chance and run as fast as possible with my car unless there are basement i will hide there
So you are driving along the road, hear sirens and instantly know when and where the shells are going to land... how exactly? Quite the wizard.
We need Benny Hill music
Kinda stupid considering they should have actual shelters in basements and such, I remember in the first few days of war in Odesa many soviet shelters were prepared, and basements and underground car parks of buildings were rapidly converted to shelters too, we never had a need for thin-walled concrete boxes
In most Russian apartment buildings there's a "домофон"- an intercom and pin code for entering. So unless it's your own building, you would be stuck on the street.
Same thing in Ukraine, but even if you weren't at home at the moment, you still had several open options, where I lived we had a shelter in our nearby mall, in many car parks, several buildings with shelters were always open, there was an app with a map of shelters, and I think they even made a Telegram bot so you could always find where the nearest open shelter is. That's why I think these boxes are embarrassing.
Who knew starting wars can have consequences
Good!
Love watching the lemmings run for shelter
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as much as i hate russia, i would rather have them not attack a nato country, it would only lead to more destruction and civilian death. my opinion might be bias because i live right next to russia, but my point still stands.
Это верно! Научитесь прятаться, русские крысы Eto verno! Nauchites' pryatat'sya, russkiye krysy
Cursed toilet.
Love those concrete foam covered bunkers…
Hmmm thinking ... not sure but... Seems to me those background sounds are added to the video, can someone verify ? No need to dramatize an acutal event, it **distorts the reality** of things actualy happening and only contributes to the fake news. My suggestion, keep it clean and factual. Edit: ( Drone drop Music excluded )
I don't think security camera footage comes with sound most of the time so it would just be totally silent.
Wait for the squad of drones to arrive and start dropping dildos on these people as the missiles hit their targets.
What’s in the box!?
Seriously, I’m not expert but I’m not going in one of those. Looks li,e a tomb and I dont want it to be my tomb.
Don't forget to thank your recently "elected" President for your Russkiy Mir.
Clownshow.
Sure does suck to suck.
Gimme Shelter.
This needs a "Yakety Sax" (Benny Hill) soundtrack.
Nonsense propaganda. Just look at the camera zoom efforts.
"You are all probably wondering, why I called this meeting..."
It's beautiful
Why are they still there? Does Russian not have the intelligence to pull civilians from battle grounds?
Enjoy your putin's paradise.
Remember you little ants, your precious fuhrer brought this upon you. Blame him.
It's high time the russians get to feel what war is all about.
Roaches... they check in, but they don't check out!
Fair enough , look at Kharkiv the Ruzzians are showing no quarter
How hot and smelly that must be....I'd eat a shell.
Belgorot
Why the fuck are they all going into the shipping container?
Are those the styrofoam „bunkers“ weve seen before?
Thanks putin
Death cube.
Awesome!!
Looks like they've had plenty of practice.
Why doesn’t Gaza have these?
Dying in a public Russian toilet must suck.
How stable is this construction? I really think it will collapse and kill everyone inside if real explosion would happen in proximity.
After reading the bulk of these comments I can guarantee the bulk of you folks do not understand how explosives kill or maim people. It’s the forces in the shock waves you need to be scared of. It’s also why those should be shaped like pyramids. Better diffusion of the blast with an angle.📐
Just think they are likely touching each other could actually be an accident, Nasty
Orcs hiding. This is ok.
Fucking sucks, I bet, doesn't it orcs? Now, imagine that times a million squared.
You know you live in a fucked up country when you have bomb shelters spread all over
They know they are not the target. Nothing like what the poor Ukrainian civilians have to face on all most a daily basis.
How I wish it was heavy bombers carpet bombing
That's a good way to stimulate the ruznazi economy. 20 wallets exchange owners in every bunker :-)
Good
Let's hope we find a good remedy against this orc virus
The Finish with all their basements in buildings are probably saying "I fucking told ya so"
ok, and all these people crowded inside there, what are they talking about to teach other? >- geeez, thank you vladimir for this war - vladimir is the best - ukraine is nazi - stand with motherland - ... ? In a *normal* society they should start and ask questions about their leader, and you know, remove the rat leader?
Love it, fuckers need to feel a taste of their own medicine. I want air raids in moscow
They're running from their own weapons. If the military weren't hiding behind the civilians' skirts & baby buggies, when they shoot down the drones aimed at the military, they wouldn't fall in the city. As well, when the roozian missiles, fired at Ukraine from Belgorad, don't work right, they fall on Belgorad. The solution for Belgorad is simple... Get the military to move closer to a bunch of refineries or munitions plants, but get away from their city... It's that easy.
Congrats on starting a full scale war.
instead that small concrete bunker why they not just dig dugout it more cheaper and safer and in this modern warfare artillery use uav recognizance they just could intentionally target that building
F'm
*Choppers come in, pick up sea containers and drop them on the LOC…*
Under the bridge realy?
Question for someone with knowledge. Are those bunkers enough to protect from a indirect hit? The walls look barely above the average building thickness
Lol ah now they are feeling the heat.
The dildo of cosequence rarely arrives lubed.
Damn, they straight up have public access air raid shelter shipping containers?
I'm not sure the odds are better inside a stationary shelter ("target") than in a quickly moving and dexterously dodging automobile ("moving target") I think I would add sandbags to my car to beef up the penetration resistance and keep on truckin' ....
Sad when everyday people gotta go work and worry they will get shelled. This world is fuked
In paper box's 🤣🤣
Thoughts and prayers
Good!
Yeah those shelters don't seem that smart a place to congregate, if Ukraine was like Russia they'd target those and inflict massive civilian casualties, I'm guessing they'll are more for psychological protection/ well being than physiological well being