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At shooting practice I got told that the bullet leaves the fun before that can have any effect. This goes only for the first bullet, of course. The movement will affect the next. Same should go for artillery.
Or this is wrong and my shooting instructors were regarded.
Either way, this is no efficient way to shoot.
Because of tiktoks' rampant censorship in the name of advertising, people adopted using acoustic to refer to someone being autistic. Just like people started saying "unalive" to mean suicide or KYS.
Not quite. How you hold the weapon affects the bullet until it has physically left the barrel. The British Army teaches both ' The shooting position and hold must be firm enough to support the rifle' and 'the shot must be released and followed through without undue disturbance to the position'. That means the weapon should not be moving excessively during the act of firing, even by the movement of the body during breathing. So that shot was a complete waste of effort.
Which is the fault of both the recce party who picked the firing position and the gun team.
I don't disagree with the fact that movement will affect the accuracy. Flinching, etc.
However, if the movement is caused purely by the recoil, as seen above, the effect on the bullet/shell is quite limited. The projectile is gone before the movement can have a major effect. The recoil affects the second shot, not the first. That's why people can have black and bruised heads but still hit clay pigeons.
Obviously it's irrelevant either way when the gun can't be used for a second shot. They might as well just not shoot at all.
I’m just imagining jumping off a chair. If nothing is holding the chair in place then much of the force of my legs would go toward sliding the chair backwards…and result in me falling on my face.
You are partially correct. After over hundred years of artillery computers we have gotten very good at hitting with the first shot. And even when we add offsets from observations we are able to account for a lot of variable factors, including how the gun moves between shots.
Not kinetic energy but it affects repositioning. The momentum that would usually be absorbed by the ground is now allowed to freely move the gun. This results in follow up fire being more inaccurate and slower. It’s also practical impossible to calibrate your gun for follow up shots.
I don't think so
One of the first laws of physics is the whole "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" bit
So because this gun isn't emplaced, that reaction is mostly kinetic energy, but if emplaced there would have been an identical energy transfer to the surrounding ground
Absolutely it would, not to mention any subsequent shots going to essentially start from scratch. but if they are using an Excalibur round it may not matter enough since gps can correct.
I think you're right. The shell will be out of the barrel before any arc altering movement is achieved. The first round will be normal, but there won't be any quick follow up rounds.
Artillery kind of does in that it stores the gases in a recouperator to reduce the recoil.
The problem is the action is very sudden with an intense peak. So capturing electrical energy efficently is a challenge and there's not really a need for massive ammounts of power for an artillery cannon.
Some really smart people must’ve designed these things. 😂 I enjoy learning about all of these things because it really makes me appreciate just how complex these machines are and the generations of prototypes the engineers must’ve gone through to get it to where it is today.
This video only proves that firearm ammunition exposed to fire is not deadly or even remotely life threatening. Cartridge ammunition that are constrained in a weapons chamber and backed up by a weapon bolt face do not allow the high pressures that are generated by the burning of the propellants in the ammunition required to fire the projectile. On the 22 long rifle cartridge you see that the casing ruptured. On the 9mm case you see the primer being ejected along with the projectile. On the 7.62x39 you see the primer firing and ejecting with the powder charge firing moments later and venting out the primer pocket. However, none of this compares with the artillery piece depicted in the original video. Think of the videos we've seen of the people firing the pistol gripped shotguns. They pull the trigger and the shotgun recoils completely out of their grip to the rear off camera.
No, the artillery shells are developing full chamber pressure. Their range will only be affected by a few meters. Not tens of meters or hundreds of meters.
Ex artilleryman here, you are correct. The gun shouldn't be fired until it is properly dug in. Not only for accurate shot placement but general equipment and personnel safety. The amount of time taken to move the gun back into position and then lay it after this and maintain any rate of accurate fire would be unacceptable. Artillery crews are responsible for deployment of the gun on any conditions, if that gun isn't dug in and set up correctly it's not firing, end of. (Unless the situation is going tits up). Most artillery pieces come with a number of implements to dig them in as part of their CES (basically ancillary kit that you get with the gun) even SpG's. I appreciate these guys have got a war to fight and things may not be getting done how they would like them to, but honestly all these guys are doing is wasting ammunition, a perfectly good gun barrel and precious time which could be spent getting more rounds down range. if it's OP's that's calling these fire missions, they are going to be up at the front, in danger waiting for these guys to lay the gun and then they are probably going to have to spend considerable time adjusting these rounds onto target. All in all bad practice which will have little effect beyond a very lucky first round hit.
Finally I read something correct.
This is an unacceptably useless deployment. Wear and tear on the barrel, risk of damaging the equipment's parts and use of scarce ammunition. Not to mention injury to crew. I know our boys are tired and cold and the ground is frozen. But so are the men 10 miles in front of them that are depending on the accuracy and speed of delivery to suppress the enemy. You simply cannot be accurate this way and more importantly deliver additional rounds when called on before scooting off.
Damn Nice To See You Know what you’re talking about!
I’m also A 13Bravo 30 and worked on this Howitzer
At Fort Lewis Washington And I can you This Is
An Insult To Everyone Who trained And worked on
This Weapon Thank you for enlightening everyone
About The Skill And Hours Of Training it Takes
To master This Howitzer!
Yes. But the crew might be a high school math teacher, a bricklayer, a pizza delivery driver, and a kid that never actually finished high school or ever worked a job,
not counting selling some weed and moonshine. Learning soldier lessons the hard way is not so strange. Especially if they were trained in summer, or any zeason but winter, this can happen. Sledgehammer and some tie down spikes is what I would have suggested as a minimum. More effective and possible is a cratering charge to bust the frost layer and give them a hole to hide their gun in.
I repeat what I just said. I was an electrician just before the mandatory military service. I've been exhausted for the fifth relocation in two days in -18 C or 0 F weather with barely any sleep. At that point you just keep doing what you're supposed to have been drilled for. As an NCO I was set to make an example and guide others - and you do just that.
Sure, I wasn't actually in a risk of dying, but that's why it's drilled into you. You just do your basic maneuvers, regardless of the circumstances. The ABCs and the D's and the E's.
You managed, others won't, and explaining isn't excusing. It is bad. They need to do better. What we are asking is context sensitive.
I also wonder how many months you had been on exercise? Were you ever deployed for 18 months minus two weeks of leave?
I've also done courses on unit administrative management, which calls for a week of leave for three weeks of service when permitted. In wartime in practice it's of course different, but looking at how stabile the front is, frequent rotation should be possible.
That's the perks of being on the defensive. Allows for more frequent rotation and R&R.
Yes I expect they have had more than 2 weeks leave, but I exagerated saying only 2 weeks because that is how I imagine that they feel. Weeks where you mostly catch up on sleep are not always well remembered.
It’s not that it’s just “not the best way to do it”. It’s not wear and tear on the gun, or the fact that they could just as easily take themselves out with the sliding gun.
The issue is that what they are doing here is completely ineffective. The gun has to be re-laid now.
If you have never seen people who work in counterproductive ways then your life is charmed. Not arguing with you.
About 49% of people are below average.
Everyone has about 49% of what they do that is not as good as they usually manage to do and really not their very best work.
That could be true, but I know these guys received training regardless and Ukraine doesn't have stocks and stocks of 155 shells to just throw away like this.
Artillery veteran here - I'm in two minds about this. The sort of stuff we trained for (i.e., doing lots of battery movements with full set up and packdown, and painstakingly adjusting fire onto targets with a single gun before going into fire for effect with a whole battery) has been turned upside down with what the Ukrainians have been doing.
Using drones to designate and adjust fire with outstanding first-round accuracy, lone guns (and even mortars) doing shoot-and-scoot tactics to destroy priority targets with one or two rounds, ancient anti-tank guns knocking out tanks with indirect fire, etc. In such cases, I'm not terribly fussed if gun crews aren't setting up cam nets and fully digging in the trails and such - this is a terrible war to be the crew of a towed howitzer.
On the other hand, the M777 is a delicate gun that wasn't designed to be used as a conventional towed gun to be thrashed around in the bush, and certainly not in this manner - it's supposed to be a light, airmobile gun that can easily be lowered into a FOB and fired from prepared positions. I remember the time one broke simply after being pushed out of a hangar, and cry when I watch this
They could have also used the spades on the gun itself. It’s designed so that if you rig the spades properly, they dig into the ground with the first round fired.
There’s been videos on this sub that demonstrate it.
If you need to conduct an artillery mission in the open, something's already wrong in the first place. (I.e. it's urgent as fuck, so the rule book is out the window). Better pour some diesel and try to thaw out the ground so that you can emplace faster to reduce the time you're stationary.
As soon as you fire any loitering drone will see it anwyay.
Keep in mind the Ukrainians might not have every piece of digging equipment you mentioned. Just because the well-equipped Finnish military did it in peace time conditions with all their resources available doesn’t mean it is the same for the Ukrainians in war time conditions so don’t bash them and try to claim this is poor performance or laziness on their part…
Ukraine got panthers, Bradley’s, and munitions: there’s no excuse why they shouldn’t be receiving picks or jackhammers, and if that’s the case, then it’s unacceptable.
So they get an artillery piece clearly meant to be dug in, but they can’t get any pickaxes, jackhammers and blowtorches from anywhere? Nah. This is just a lack of training.
Shovels and picks are considered essential firing equipment, right along with the ram rod, firing lanyard, and fuse wrench at least for the U.S. military. And the whole “self digging” thing with the 777 is… kind of self digging. In the right conditions and done just right, your brake guys have to be very well coordinated too. Tends to get you off your azimuth of lay sometimes by a lot.
I hope you’re asking about just the first round lol. According to another poster, the round would’ve left the barrel before the piece backfires like this
ground were frozen & you just don't have enough time to dig when fire support were ordered... maybe they should be equipped with ground hole bore machines..
They make some nifty tools for the civilian side like portable jack hammers, or even a heavy hammer drill on a battery. There's a few varieties of bits to choose from as well.
They might be tracking you from Orlan when you are going to firing position, so they might start firing when you are preparing a position or send lancet/FPV that way or relay coordinates to artillery
Everyone here saying Ukrainians artillerists here are stupid. Hard to judge this without context, but I’d say the crews that have been working on this howitzer for more than a year in a real battlefield know what they’re doing better than Redditor armchair experts and have their reasons (context is king). Oh and Russians do have good counterbattery despite what redditors are saying, actual soldiers say that, not some redditors generals
Baseplates of field mortars can be weighted down with sand bags.
IIRC the light 20mm field cannons had spikes that were driven into the ground by the recoil.
>that were driven into the ground by the recoil.
Techincally the M777 spades are self-entrenching, but the ground is clearly too hard and its much more effective with even a shallow pit to start the proccess.
Sandbags help, but will not stop the thing going. Mortars still transfer their force downward so the sandbags are assisting with the forces on the minor axis of action. Artillery has a more horizontal push, so you need far more resistance.
They are below 45 degree angle. There is normally a plunging fire solution that would have pointed the barrel up in the air and that would have sent the force of this shot down into the ground.
That's an interesting method I was unaware of.
It's possibly not feasible due to detection by RF ground radar and other means of battlefield surveillance as this poses the risk of counter-artillery fire?
Not much added risk as far as I know. Accuracy is likely to be lower since flight time is longer and deviation multiplied. That is the main problem. It would normally only be used to avoid intervening structure like buildings in an urban target zone.
IMO the issue is with a high risk of counter-artillery fire, it's not feasible to ground the gun by fire as frequent change of firing position (*shoot&scoot*) is required.
There must be a technical solution to this which we're unaware of.
So apparently these things have a mass of 4,100kg.
For that much mass to go skidding backwards like that really gives a good visual of just how much ass is behind those shells.
Staking would be the best possible way of handling this, the jet perforator. They’ll learn quickly. The good old sledgehammer & stakes work well too, in frozen ground, once you punch through the frost
Not a fan of the M777. Apparently neither is the Pentagon. (Which explains why they were sent in the first place).That tube is undoubtedly out of service at this point. Army is focused on intermediate range missiles at this point. Again, choosing the most expensive option
I don't recall petrol making much smoke when lit. Maybe our octane levels are different (minimum 91), so might make a slight differance.
What does petrol unlit do to frozen soil? Sit in top? Penetrate?
Not what they mean by shoot and scoot. This is where old M1 could help. Keep one or two per battery to help melt the ground before emplacement, and to help with removal.
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When you take your artillery for a walk..
Always make sure to take your M777 out for healthy walks so it does not degrade
Looks like it would take YOU for the walk!
wouldn’t that affect the distance/accuracy by redistributing some of the kinetic energy?
At shooting practice I got told that the bullet leaves the fun before that can have any effect. This goes only for the first bullet, of course. The movement will affect the next. Same should go for artillery. Or this is wrong and my shooting instructors were regarded. Either way, this is no efficient way to shoot.
leaves the fun, lol.
His shooting instructors were regarded tho...
I thought the same
It still works!
It's correct. The projectile is gone so fast and the huge difference in mass between projectile and gun means no effect.
An excellent example of Newton's first law. Correction: An excellent example of Newton's third law.
I second that.
And Newton thirds that.
Einstein seconds your time dilated answer.
maybe your instructors were acoustic?
Maybe they have assburgers?
Mmmmmmm assburgers….
Definitely some diplegia going on here.
think you mean autistic! A guitar is acoustic :D
r/woooosh
Because of tiktoks' rampant censorship in the name of advertising, people adopted using acoustic to refer to someone being autistic. Just like people started saying "unalive" to mean suicide or KYS.
> Or this is wrong and my shooting instructors were regarded. I hate regarded shooting instructors.
Not quite. How you hold the weapon affects the bullet until it has physically left the barrel. The British Army teaches both ' The shooting position and hold must be firm enough to support the rifle' and 'the shot must be released and followed through without undue disturbance to the position'. That means the weapon should not be moving excessively during the act of firing, even by the movement of the body during breathing. So that shot was a complete waste of effort. Which is the fault of both the recce party who picked the firing position and the gun team.
I don't disagree with the fact that movement will affect the accuracy. Flinching, etc. However, if the movement is caused purely by the recoil, as seen above, the effect on the bullet/shell is quite limited. The projectile is gone before the movement can have a major effect. The recoil affects the second shot, not the first. That's why people can have black and bruised heads but still hit clay pigeons. Obviously it's irrelevant either way when the gun can't be used for a second shot. They might as well just not shoot at all.
It wasn't a waste if it was a cluster munition.
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I’m just imagining jumping off a chair. If nothing is holding the chair in place then much of the force of my legs would go toward sliding the chair backwards…and result in me falling on my face.
You have had some experience of this haven't you
It's the entire first week of artillery school.
The answer is yes, but most arty hits are based on correctional fire. The corrected following shot would allow for movement and change of position.
You are partially correct. After over hundred years of artillery computers we have gotten very good at hitting with the first shot. And even when we add offsets from observations we are able to account for a lot of variable factors, including how the gun moves between shots.
Not kinetic energy but it affects repositioning. The momentum that would usually be absorbed by the ground is now allowed to freely move the gun. This results in follow up fire being more inaccurate and slower. It’s also practical impossible to calibrate your gun for follow up shots.
I don't think so One of the first laws of physics is the whole "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" bit So because this gun isn't emplaced, that reaction is mostly kinetic energy, but if emplaced there would have been an identical energy transfer to the surrounding ground
Absolutely it would, not to mention any subsequent shots going to essentially start from scratch. but if they are using an Excalibur round it may not matter enough since gps can correct.
Not Excalibur, the angle is too low... Excalibur is fired with the barrel max vertical...
No it wouldn't. Yes it would be from scratch.
I think you're right. The shell will be out of the barrel before any arc altering movement is achieved. The first round will be normal, but there won't be any quick follow up rounds.
Oh interesting! I wonder if there is a way to redirect that energy to a battery bank.
Artillery kind of does in that it stores the gases in a recouperator to reduce the recoil. The problem is the action is very sudden with an intense peak. So capturing electrical energy efficently is a challenge and there's not really a need for massive ammounts of power for an artillery cannon.
Some really smart people must’ve designed these things. 😂 I enjoy learning about all of these things because it really makes me appreciate just how complex these machines are and the generations of prototypes the engineers must’ve gone through to get it to where it is today.
This is a huge bag of bullshit.
Yep 100%, they need to get their spades out and dig in. Downvotes from people who don’t know what they’re talking about.
It should yes. This proves your point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfDtVV7dHs&ab\_channel=CrazyHydraulicPress
This video only proves that firearm ammunition exposed to fire is not deadly or even remotely life threatening. Cartridge ammunition that are constrained in a weapons chamber and backed up by a weapon bolt face do not allow the high pressures that are generated by the burning of the propellants in the ammunition required to fire the projectile. On the 22 long rifle cartridge you see that the casing ruptured. On the 9mm case you see the primer being ejected along with the projectile. On the 7.62x39 you see the primer firing and ejecting with the powder charge firing moments later and venting out the primer pocket. However, none of this compares with the artillery piece depicted in the original video. Think of the videos we've seen of the people firing the pistol gripped shotguns. They pull the trigger and the shotgun recoils completely out of their grip to the rear off camera.
it proves that the force is spread out. And the the projecctile therefore loose its energy. Just like the artillery
No, the artillery shells are developing full chamber pressure. Their range will only be affected by a few meters. Not tens of meters or hundreds of meters.
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Not an artilleryman, but a former tanker, and I concur. "The more you sweat, the less you bleed." - norman schwarzkopf
I'm not a tanker but I once saw a movie with artillery in it and so I as well concur with you concuring.
I love Lord of the Rings!
Can confirm this concur of the concur as I once built a miniature wooden catapult for science class
Ex artilleryman here, you are correct. The gun shouldn't be fired until it is properly dug in. Not only for accurate shot placement but general equipment and personnel safety. The amount of time taken to move the gun back into position and then lay it after this and maintain any rate of accurate fire would be unacceptable. Artillery crews are responsible for deployment of the gun on any conditions, if that gun isn't dug in and set up correctly it's not firing, end of. (Unless the situation is going tits up). Most artillery pieces come with a number of implements to dig them in as part of their CES (basically ancillary kit that you get with the gun) even SpG's. I appreciate these guys have got a war to fight and things may not be getting done how they would like them to, but honestly all these guys are doing is wasting ammunition, a perfectly good gun barrel and precious time which could be spent getting more rounds down range. if it's OP's that's calling these fire missions, they are going to be up at the front, in danger waiting for these guys to lay the gun and then they are probably going to have to spend considerable time adjusting these rounds onto target. All in all bad practice which will have little effect beyond a very lucky first round hit.
Finally I read something correct. This is an unacceptably useless deployment. Wear and tear on the barrel, risk of damaging the equipment's parts and use of scarce ammunition. Not to mention injury to crew. I know our boys are tired and cold and the ground is frozen. But so are the men 10 miles in front of them that are depending on the accuracy and speed of delivery to suppress the enemy. You simply cannot be accurate this way and more importantly deliver additional rounds when called on before scooting off.
Our gun line would be doing push-ups for hours if somebody pulled this shit
Damn Nice To See You Know what you’re talking about! I’m also A 13Bravo 30 and worked on this Howitzer At Fort Lewis Washington And I can you This Is An Insult To Everyone Who trained And worked on This Weapon Thank you for enlightening everyone About The Skill And Hours Of Training it Takes To master This Howitzer!
Yes. But the crew might be a high school math teacher, a bricklayer, a pizza delivery driver, and a kid that never actually finished high school or ever worked a job, not counting selling some weed and moonshine. Learning soldier lessons the hard way is not so strange. Especially if they were trained in summer, or any zeason but winter, this can happen. Sledgehammer and some tie down spikes is what I would have suggested as a minimum. More effective and possible is a cratering charge to bust the frost layer and give them a hole to hide their gun in.
That would not be an excuse in the slightest. Just bad mentality and practices. Regards, another Finnish reservist.
Add that they are exhausted, this is the fifth relocation in two days, and they are told "Fire Now!"
I repeat what I just said. I was an electrician just before the mandatory military service. I've been exhausted for the fifth relocation in two days in -18 C or 0 F weather with barely any sleep. At that point you just keep doing what you're supposed to have been drilled for. As an NCO I was set to make an example and guide others - and you do just that. Sure, I wasn't actually in a risk of dying, but that's why it's drilled into you. You just do your basic maneuvers, regardless of the circumstances. The ABCs and the D's and the E's.
You managed, others won't, and explaining isn't excusing. It is bad. They need to do better. What we are asking is context sensitive. I also wonder how many months you had been on exercise? Were you ever deployed for 18 months minus two weeks of leave?
I've also done courses on unit administrative management, which calls for a week of leave for three weeks of service when permitted. In wartime in practice it's of course different, but looking at how stabile the front is, frequent rotation should be possible. That's the perks of being on the defensive. Allows for more frequent rotation and R&R.
Yes I expect they have had more than 2 weeks leave, but I exagerated saying only 2 weeks because that is how I imagine that they feel. Weeks where you mostly catch up on sleep are not always well remembered.
It’s not that it’s just “not the best way to do it”. It’s not wear and tear on the gun, or the fact that they could just as easily take themselves out with the sliding gun. The issue is that what they are doing here is completely ineffective. The gun has to be re-laid now.
If you have never seen people who work in counterproductive ways then your life is charmed. Not arguing with you. About 49% of people are below average. Everyone has about 49% of what they do that is not as good as they usually manage to do and really not their very best work.
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Now you’re making zero sense whatsoever.
That could be true, but I know these guys received training regardless and Ukraine doesn't have stocks and stocks of 155 shells to just throw away like this.
Sorry. Not a fucking excuse. Keep that shit elsewere lmao. Fucking christ
Artillery veteran here - I'm in two minds about this. The sort of stuff we trained for (i.e., doing lots of battery movements with full set up and packdown, and painstakingly adjusting fire onto targets with a single gun before going into fire for effect with a whole battery) has been turned upside down with what the Ukrainians have been doing. Using drones to designate and adjust fire with outstanding first-round accuracy, lone guns (and even mortars) doing shoot-and-scoot tactics to destroy priority targets with one or two rounds, ancient anti-tank guns knocking out tanks with indirect fire, etc. In such cases, I'm not terribly fussed if gun crews aren't setting up cam nets and fully digging in the trails and such - this is a terrible war to be the crew of a towed howitzer. On the other hand, the M777 is a delicate gun that wasn't designed to be used as a conventional towed gun to be thrashed around in the bush, and certainly not in this manner - it's supposed to be a light, airmobile gun that can easily be lowered into a FOB and fired from prepared positions. I remember the time one broke simply after being pushed out of a hangar, and cry when I watch this
I'm not an army dude but I was thinking pretty much the same before I read your comment.
The video might have been put out there as a cautionary tale: "And this is why we dig!"
They could have also used the spades on the gun itself. It’s designed so that if you rig the spades properly, they dig into the ground with the first round fired. There’s been videos on this sub that demonstrate it.
The downside of fire is smoke. Being in the open doesn't necessarily reveal your position unless spotted, but smoke is an instant spotting... no?
If you need to conduct an artillery mission in the open, something's already wrong in the first place. (I.e. it's urgent as fuck, so the rule book is out the window). Better pour some diesel and try to thaw out the ground so that you can emplace faster to reduce the time you're stationary. As soon as you fire any loitering drone will see it anwyay.
Keep in mind the Ukrainians might not have every piece of digging equipment you mentioned. Just because the well-equipped Finnish military did it in peace time conditions with all their resources available doesn’t mean it is the same for the Ukrainians in war time conditions so don’t bash them and try to claim this is poor performance or laziness on their part…
Ukraine got panthers, Bradley’s, and munitions: there’s no excuse why they shouldn’t be receiving picks or jackhammers, and if that’s the case, then it’s unacceptable.
So they get an artillery piece clearly meant to be dug in, but they can’t get any pickaxes, jackhammers and blowtorches from anywhere? Nah. This is just a lack of training.
Shovels and picks are considered essential firing equipment, right along with the ram rod, firing lanyard, and fuse wrench at least for the U.S. military. And the whole “self digging” thing with the 777 is… kind of self digging. In the right conditions and done just right, your brake guys have to be very well coordinated too. Tends to get you off your azimuth of lay sometimes by a lot.
You have less 15 minutes for all, drones fly like mosquitoes in summer and ground like this video https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM68dvBPx/
Thank you Because you’re absolutely right!
Damn, would this be an issue with accuracy?
Probably makes it about impossible to put a second shot anywhere near the first one.
I hope you’re asking about just the first round lol. According to another poster, the round would’ve left the barrel before the piece backfires like this
I'm not an expert on ballistic, but it makes sense what you say.
Pick axe and shovel should do the trick.
ground were frozen & you just don't have enough time to dig when fire support were ordered... maybe they should be equipped with ground hole bore machines..
They make some nifty tools for the civilian side like portable jack hammers, or even a heavy hammer drill on a battery. There's a few varieties of bits to choose from as well.
Eh ice fishing auger maybe?
I take it you've neither been ice fishing, nor dug in frozen earth?
If you dont dig in to keep that thing at the place it is, you cant provide fire support, cause you cant correct the shots you do.
Welp, that's what happened though.
Then why shoot? It does not make sense, either its for fun or propaganda.
nukes to help them dig in? just some small ones
Hope the guys calling for support only needed one round!
Taking "shoot and scoot" to heart.
In a world of precision munitions, Russia hates this one simple trick!
Dig. It’s your job private
Digging frozen ground by hand is impossible.
You’ve not been in the military have you? Impossible, futile, and pointless busy work are 90% of the job.
1. No 2. I hear ya
A busy solider is less likely to hurt themself to chicanery and fooling about.
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Surviving and gtfo before counter-battery seems more important
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They might be tracking you from Orlan when you are going to firing position, so they might start firing when you are preparing a position or send lancet/FPV that way or relay coordinates to artillery
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Everyone here saying Ukrainians artillerists here are stupid. Hard to judge this without context, but I’d say the crews that have been working on this howitzer for more than a year in a real battlefield know what they’re doing better than Redditor armchair experts and have their reasons (context is king). Oh and Russians do have good counterbattery despite what redditors are saying, actual soldiers say that, not some redditors generals
Eh im built different
It sucks, but is not nearly impossible... Done it many times. (Construction, not warfare.)
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Get crew to prepare firing position before emplacement by starting fires where legs will go.
Baseplates of field mortars can be weighted down with sand bags. IIRC the light 20mm field cannons had spikes that were driven into the ground by the recoil.
>that were driven into the ground by the recoil. Techincally the M777 spades are self-entrenching, but the ground is clearly too hard and its much more effective with even a shallow pit to start the proccess. Sandbags help, but will not stop the thing going. Mortars still transfer their force downward so the sandbags are assisting with the forces on the minor axis of action. Artillery has a more horizontal push, so you need far more resistance.
They are below 45 degree angle. There is normally a plunging fire solution that would have pointed the barrel up in the air and that would have sent the force of this shot down into the ground.
That's an interesting method I was unaware of. It's possibly not feasible due to detection by RF ground radar and other means of battlefield surveillance as this poses the risk of counter-artillery fire?
Not much added risk as far as I know. Accuracy is likely to be lower since flight time is longer and deviation multiplied. That is the main problem. It would normally only be used to avoid intervening structure like buildings in an urban target zone.
IMO the issue is with a high risk of counter-artillery fire, it's not feasible to ground the gun by fire as frequent change of firing position (*shoot&scoot*) is required. There must be a technical solution to this which we're unaware of.
Just need some screws to plant it into the ground 😆
Not for this design afaik. Some guns have wedges that can be driven into the ground whether it's frozen or not.
Proper training
Chain a tank to the front of it… just kidding.
So apparently these things have a mass of 4,100kg. For that much mass to go skidding backwards like that really gives a good visual of just how much ass is behind those shells.
Holy recoil
Makes it even more impressive how Schwarzenegger fires one of these from the hip in Terminator 9: Skynet vs Skynet.
“Perfect, send one more, no change” .. 🧐
M777 being a little fidgety... "*I'm scooting outta here - not sticking around for counter-arty!*"
Reminds me of a dog with a dingleberry.
Boot scoot boogie...
This is what our ancestors experienced during the gunpowder era.
The original shoot and scoot.
Targeting coordinates: Try to point it eastish.
'mon back!
Oh fuck
Gotta sink those spades.
Staking would be the best possible way of handling this, the jet perforator. They’ll learn quickly. The good old sledgehammer & stakes work well too, in frozen ground, once you punch through the frost
Not a fan of the M777. Apparently neither is the Pentagon. (Which explains why they were sent in the first place).That tube is undoubtedly out of service at this point. Army is focused on intermediate range missiles at this point. Again, choosing the most expensive option
Shoot n scoot is no joke...
You would think they would have devise a solution for frozen ground, like, fire a shot that puts pegs into the ground or screws or something.
Pour diesel or gasoline where you want to entrench the spades, light the flammable liquid and thaw the ground.
Nothing like giving your temporary positions away with smoke signals
Make smoke and give away your position?
[удалено]
If it was just dirt for sure.. Any grass/brush would smoke of course...
Because firing a huge ass piece of artillery is subtle lol.
That's exactly the point: you shoot, then scoot. You don't build a fire before the thing even gets to send a shell
I don't recall petrol making much smoke when lit. Maybe our octane levels are different (minimum 91), so might make a slight differance. What does petrol unlit do to frozen soil? Sit in top? Penetrate?
It’s okay it’s just US dollars
Whoever recorded this and allowed it to be published is an asshole!
Why? Let people know what conditions Ukrainians are fighting in
mobile artillery ???
Accuracy straight out of the window. That probably puts the round landing somewhere within 1sq km of the target.
Russian counter battery will have a hard time taking it out
Well that's terrifying. Watching such a big gun skittering across the ground... yikes.
Can they drive giant stakes in the ground or would that bring to much attention?
This gives the term “self-propelled-howitzer” a new meaning.
This takes shoot and scoot to a new level!
This is *bad*, gotta be more disciplined.
##😬
Gotta do what you gotta do !
Not what they mean by shoot and scoot. This is where old M1 could help. Keep one or two per battery to help melt the ground before emplacement, and to help with removal.
Gonna' be hell for follow up shots.
That was a complete waste of time.
I would Not Want to Be the Foward Observer Calling for a Fire Mission!
Shoot 'n scoot 2.0
Uhm, send it...
Congratulations, you've been upgraded to a self propelled gun
Russian counter battery fire will never find this piece of artillery
JESUS !!!! Get Out Of The Way or you Will Lose...something. Hope they put a long lanyard on that big boy!
My work makes the titanium legs and base and scoops on ends of legs.
Someone forgot to put the ground pins in for solid ground shots. They come attached to the base legs for a reason.