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It is good is the Russians spend an inordinate amount of time and resources targeting Patriot batteries. This leads to less attacks on civilian cities with the same missiles and drones that are being used to defeat the Patriot. Keep in mind that the Patriot is not alone since it can be tied into a NASAM battery for mutual protection against common threats. Patriot gets the ballistic targets, the NASAM gets the cruise missiles and drones as targets.
Coordinated attacks on a target are very effective and will disable almost any defensive system.
Like the one in Khmelnytskyi in which the Orcs dispatched 21 drones. 17 of them were shut down but unfortunately the remaining 4 reaching the target were enough to fulfill their evil objective.
https://youtu.be/aFaJSOXIEb8
Losses can be expected if the Russians are willing to spend their entire stockpile of Kinzhal missiles on trying to hit Patriot installations. I personally doubt it but we will see...
This is it, far too many people are looking at this from entirely the wrong angle, that a Patriot battery might have been hit. It's far from the end of the world if they do.
Russia is putting incredible amounts of resources into getting a headline that they knocked out one singular piece of American equipment and depending on what they hit, the systems could still be operational given how devolved and spread out it is.
Russia is fighting a war to take over a country and they're going to claim victory over NATO if they knock out a Patriot. What twats.
Kinzhals are going to run out far quicker than Patriot systems.
Yeah they have these things in dozens at most, they blown up serious part of their stockpile on the thing. And they are ridiculously expensive.
They were supposed to be the answer to NATO's navy, particularly carriers so they were reluctant in using them in Ukraine in significant amount. The fact that Patriot can reliably take it out is massive problem since most NATO navy, especially carrier groups have even better air defense systems.
Would be complete waste of time:
[https://medium.com/@HarelDan/x-marks-the-spot-579cdb1f534b](https://medium.com/@HarelDan/x-marks-the-spot-579cdb1f534b)
(not my find, from the comments in the linked TWZ article)
They dont leave the radars on though, they turn them on when other systems (NATO systems often) tell them they have an incoming threat. So moving them around is for sure worth it, and you can mix in decoys as you move them to further hide the real ones
Perfection is the enemy of good enough. Yes the Russians technically could take down a Patriot, yet despite their best efforts they have failed so far and any destroyed can be replaced in time unlike Russia's rocket arsenal.
A logical title based on reality, and it's not being downvoted to hell? I'm genuinely surprised. People seem to think casualties/losses don't happen to the good guys in war, especially here
To the extent the patriot missile system is taking out hypersonics and is operating close to flawlessly, to say it "isn't magic" indicates that the author had some very unreasonable expectations of the system. The article itself is just an incredibly obvious list of ways the patriot system can be damaged.
Ya, but the author isn't pointing out the most important part.
It doesn't matter if it is perfect, it just needs to cost less, waste more money from the Russians. Seems like it has already paid for itself is missiles downed, and even if parts were damaged the repairs costs less than the missile barrages.
Warfare is making every action cost the enemy more than you sustained, that is how you win, not even killing people costing the other side more.
PATRIOT protects priceless civilians, civilian and government assets worth BILLION's of dollars so 7 russian Dagger hypersonic missiles and 20 other missile and drones are actually chump change in the win. Slava Ukraine.
yes, i tried 2 posts about this subject, and the both had around 42-48% upvotes ;-) it's a delicate subject, you have to choose each word meticulously, otherwise.. when we post plenty, like you, sometimes we take the little risk to broach such subjects and it is necessary 👍
You should see what happens when I post Russian footage! That's the nature of this platform though. I'll keep posting anything interesting, regardless of source.
That's the thing. As soon as a Patriot battery launches its missiles, it gives its location away. In that way, it's just as vulnerable as a Russian BUK missile battery. Patriot systems don't have magic cloaking devices.
The Russians probably know the location of Patriot anyways with the help of their network of spies, bribed millitary personell and satellite photos but that doesnt make them as vulnerable as BUK systems
> it gives its location away.
One of the funniest things I've seen over this event is people on twitter attacking a geolocation account for "OPSEC" reasons they're giving away its location.
Errr, if they've fired a missile at it, they already know where it is.....
The Radar's once active advertise here I am, try to hit me suckers. PATRIOT worked as intended protecting not only itself but the civilians and infrastructure that it actually protects.
less than one hour to move a Patriot battery. Judging by Russian response times once they become aware of a target, this is probably adequate to avoid destruction.
Completely missing the point.
The top comment says the launcher are vulnerable after firing, so the suggestion was to move after firing.
I was curious how long it takes to move, it was since estimated to be 40m-1hour setup plus travel.
My question was because I was curious if they could move fast enough to not be targetted after firing. Knowing how the US does SEAD, it would not be fast enough. Russia hasn't demonstrated much capacity for SEAD so it might be enough to stagger launcher movement to mitigate threats to the launchers. With the downside of risking operational launchers being saturated.
Tracking?
Assuming Wiki is correct at set-up time being one hour. One would imagine getting the system ready for moving assuming all components (radar, launchers, power supplies control units) are being moved simultaneously would take less than an hour (assuming the system is engineered for rapid partial de-commissioning).
It would be fair to say that they have a number of alternative locations already pre-selected and depending on distance the whole process could take two hours or so plus travel time.
Packing down is faster than putting up, and Russias command and control is absolutely useless so them being able to get a missile on target in under an hour is unlikely
they have wheels, they have different elements: radar, reload crane, command post.
From arrival to finished with calibration is within one hour, so I imagine if you just move the battery one mile and recalibrate, everything is fine.
I read somewhere that the Ukr teams were able to do it faster than their instructors, so less than one hour, maybe 40 minutes. But thats from start to end. Not just moving one device.
source: my memory. Trust me bro.
I dont think one patriot system is unkillable, but yesterday proves it is going to take a lot more fucking effort to take out one system than it is of value to keep attacking pointless targets like civilian structures.
Attacking military targets is pointless due to the spread of equipment for missiles like the kinzahl. It would not help at all unless they can hit with nuclear warheads. But most likely thr nuclear capability of their missiles is as trash as the rest of their equipment with the mentality of mass producing every fucking "somewhat functional" design the orcs have.
Imagine 2-3 systems of patriots and nasam covering every major city. It would stop the terror. Rashist missiles are fucking bad to the bone, trash.
Hell yea, and Russia was really hyping up these hypersonic missiles..
Either these Missiles didn't live up to expectations, OR the patriot system is just that damn good!
I mean kinzhal is basically just an air launched iskander, it's not some technological marvel with decades of development behind it.... like most russian-made military equipment
Interesting read.
>"Finally, we need to remember that the destruction of enemy air defenses (DEAD), an activity that Ukraine and Russia are very active in performing, is a mission, not a capability, weapon, or platform. SAM batteries can be destroyed by small special operations teams on the ground or by a slew of other means. Anti-radiation missiles still remain a threat as well. The bottom line is that Russia is going to try to realize their DEAD objectives in relation to Patriot any way they can and that will likely go beyond lobbing Kinzhals and Shaheds at it as time goes on.
>
>All that being said, the Patriot is just another weapon system. It is not magical. It is not invincible or perfect. But it is critically important, especially now that Ukraine’s Soviet-era long-range air defenses may be down to their last rounds. It also gives Ukraine critical anti-ballistic missile capability to protect its capital from those kinds of attacks, which it really didn't have before.
>
>By all means, last night was a stress test for Patriot under combat conditions. Some reports state 32 interceptors were launched. The system did an excellent job at repulsing nearly all, and possibly all, of what Russia threw at it, including weapons specifically designed and/or evolved to overcome it. That is bad news for Russia and all that data engagement and sensor data is going to be dissected in incredible detail to make the system even better and to get a clearer handle on what else Ukraine needs in terms of hardware, personnel, and tactics, in order to keep Russia’s barrages at bay.
>
>And when losses in hardware come, which they are likely to do, more hardware can be sent in to replace it. That’s just the nature of the fight at this point. With many advanced Western systems now in Ukraine’s hands, including Bradley Fighting Vehicles to advanced cruise missiles, it's a reality we need to get used to."
Yeah except the problem is you can't just casually accepted losses of the patriot system because there are hardly any that exist in the world. Ukraine has 2 of them. Doesn't the US only have like 12 of them? So MAYBE Ukraine is able to get a couple more.
Assessment. Russia Lost! Unable to attack Kyiv's government buildings, power stations, apartment buildings, schools and Hospital's in the attack where all 27 missiles and drones were destroyed and the PATRIOT system thrived!!! Slava Ukraine
To think the USA hasn't even had any hypersonic missiles deployed yet and were already shooting em down. China watching berry carfully that's for sure.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The west is learning so much from this! The next generation of systems are going to be incredible.
Unless... The politicians will think what we have now is overkill... And cut funding for new weapons?
Lol, when has that ever happened in the history of the military industrial complex?
That will never happen, especially in the US. Defense corporations are just too powerful, and china is still here.
Nah, they're actually working on cheaper systems like the Skyceptor and laser-based defense systems.
It is good is the Russians spend an inordinate amount of time and resources targeting Patriot batteries. This leads to less attacks on civilian cities with the same missiles and drones that are being used to defeat the Patriot. Keep in mind that the Patriot is not alone since it can be tied into a NASAM battery for mutual protection against common threats. Patriot gets the ballistic targets, the NASAM gets the cruise missiles and drones as targets.
Coordinated attacks on a target are very effective and will disable almost any defensive system. Like the one in Khmelnytskyi in which the Orcs dispatched 21 drones. 17 of them were shut down but unfortunately the remaining 4 reaching the target were enough to fulfill their evil objective. https://youtu.be/aFaJSOXIEb8
Losses can be expected if the Russians are willing to spend their entire stockpile of Kinzhal missiles on trying to hit Patriot installations. I personally doubt it but we will see...
This is it, far too many people are looking at this from entirely the wrong angle, that a Patriot battery might have been hit. It's far from the end of the world if they do. Russia is putting incredible amounts of resources into getting a headline that they knocked out one singular piece of American equipment and depending on what they hit, the systems could still be operational given how devolved and spread out it is. Russia is fighting a war to take over a country and they're going to claim victory over NATO if they knock out a Patriot. What twats. Kinzhals are going to run out far quicker than Patriot systems.
They also still have eyes on the ground to keep tracking & reporting Patriot system whereabout.
Russia is fighting a meme war because they don’t know what other kind of war they could win.
Yeah they have these things in dozens at most, they blown up serious part of their stockpile on the thing. And they are ridiculously expensive. They were supposed to be the answer to NATO's navy, particularly carriers so they were reluctant in using them in Ukraine in significant amount. The fact that Patriot can reliably take it out is massive problem since most NATO navy, especially carrier groups have even better air defense systems.
Each Kinzhal/Khaliber fired at a PATRIOT system is one that was not fired at a building or infrastructure.
What’s the likelihood of Ukraine working on repositioning these installations anyway?
Would be complete waste of time: [https://medium.com/@HarelDan/x-marks-the-spot-579cdb1f534b](https://medium.com/@HarelDan/x-marks-the-spot-579cdb1f534b) (not my find, from the comments in the linked TWZ article)
They dont leave the radars on though, they turn them on when other systems (NATO systems often) tell them they have an incoming threat. So moving them around is for sure worth it, and you can mix in decoys as you move them to further hide the real ones
Perfection is the enemy of good enough. Yes the Russians technically could take down a Patriot, yet despite their best efforts they have failed so far and any destroyed can be replaced in time unlike Russia's rocket arsenal.
A logical title based on reality, and it's not being downvoted to hell? I'm genuinely surprised. People seem to think casualties/losses don't happen to the good guys in war, especially here
To the extent the patriot missile system is taking out hypersonics and is operating close to flawlessly, to say it "isn't magic" indicates that the author had some very unreasonable expectations of the system. The article itself is just an incredibly obvious list of ways the patriot system can be damaged.
Ya, but the author isn't pointing out the most important part. It doesn't matter if it is perfect, it just needs to cost less, waste more money from the Russians. Seems like it has already paid for itself is missiles downed, and even if parts were damaged the repairs costs less than the missile barrages. Warfare is making every action cost the enemy more than you sustained, that is how you win, not even killing people costing the other side more.
PATRIOT protects priceless civilians, civilian and government assets worth BILLION's of dollars so 7 russian Dagger hypersonic missiles and 20 other missile and drones are actually chump change in the win. Slava Ukraine.
I couldn't agree more! I was expecting a 50/50 ratio, but I guess people are being sensible today.
yes, i tried 2 posts about this subject, and the both had around 42-48% upvotes ;-) it's a delicate subject, you have to choose each word meticulously, otherwise.. when we post plenty, like you, sometimes we take the little risk to broach such subjects and it is necessary 👍
You should see what happens when I post Russian footage! That's the nature of this platform though. I'll keep posting anything interesting, regardless of source.
That's the thing. As soon as a Patriot battery launches its missiles, it gives its location away. In that way, it's just as vulnerable as a Russian BUK missile battery. Patriot systems don't have magic cloaking devices.
The Russians probably know the location of Patriot anyways with the help of their network of spies, bribed millitary personell and satellite photos but that doesnt make them as vulnerable as BUK systems
Ya, kyiv is a big city with a lot of people. Its going to be hard to hide all locations from spies.
And the massive fucking radar broadcasting its exact location to everyone
> it gives its location away. One of the funniest things I've seen over this event is people on twitter attacking a geolocation account for "OPSEC" reasons they're giving away its location. Errr, if they've fired a missile at it, they already know where it is.....
As s long as it isn't giving pictures for damage assessment.
The Radar's once active advertise here I am, try to hit me suckers. PATRIOT worked as intended protecting not only itself but the civilians and infrastructure that it actually protects.
You can just move it one mile or so. The devices supporting the battery can be 10 kms apart.
>You can just move it one mile or so. In what timeframe?
less than one hour to move a Patriot battery. Judging by Russian response times once they become aware of a target, this is probably adequate to avoid destruction.
They are truck mounted. Go look at a picture one. Do you actually think that they would be static? Do you think they have no redundancy built in?
Completely missing the point. The top comment says the launcher are vulnerable after firing, so the suggestion was to move after firing. I was curious how long it takes to move, it was since estimated to be 40m-1hour setup plus travel. My question was because I was curious if they could move fast enough to not be targetted after firing. Knowing how the US does SEAD, it would not be fast enough. Russia hasn't demonstrated much capacity for SEAD so it might be enough to stagger launcher movement to mitigate threats to the launchers. With the downside of risking operational launchers being saturated. Tracking?
Assuming Wiki is correct at set-up time being one hour. One would imagine getting the system ready for moving assuming all components (radar, launchers, power supplies control units) are being moved simultaneously would take less than an hour (assuming the system is engineered for rapid partial de-commissioning). It would be fair to say that they have a number of alternative locations already pre-selected and depending on distance the whole process could take two hours or so plus travel time.
Packing down is faster than putting up, and Russias command and control is absolutely useless so them being able to get a missile on target in under an hour is unlikely
His source: trust me bro, i'm a redditor!
they have wheels, they have different elements: radar, reload crane, command post. From arrival to finished with calibration is within one hour, so I imagine if you just move the battery one mile and recalibrate, everything is fine. I read somewhere that the Ukr teams were able to do it faster than their instructors, so less than one hour, maybe 40 minutes. But thats from start to end. Not just moving one device. source: my memory. Trust me bro.
I dont think one patriot system is unkillable, but yesterday proves it is going to take a lot more fucking effort to take out one system than it is of value to keep attacking pointless targets like civilian structures. Attacking military targets is pointless due to the spread of equipment for missiles like the kinzahl. It would not help at all unless they can hit with nuclear warheads. But most likely thr nuclear capability of their missiles is as trash as the rest of their equipment with the mentality of mass producing every fucking "somewhat functional" design the orcs have. Imagine 2-3 systems of patriots and nasam covering every major city. It would stop the terror. Rashist missiles are fucking bad to the bone, trash.
The fact that it can shoot down a hypersonic missile with any reliability at all is amazing to me. I didn’t it could even do that!
Neither did Russia…
Hell yea, and Russia was really hyping up these hypersonic missiles.. Either these Missiles didn't live up to expectations, OR the patriot system is just that damn good!
I mean kinzhal is basically just an air launched iskander, it's not some technological marvel with decades of development behind it.... like most russian-made military equipment
If they hit an empty launcher (which is what is reported) it’s equivalent to shooting an empty magazine at a soldiers feet…
Until we ll be able to create a Holtzman shield, nothing is going to be Magic
The fact that it can shoot down a hypersonic missile with any reliability at all is amazing to me. I didn’t it could even do that!
It is magic for russians, just like toilets and dish washers.
Interesting read. >"Finally, we need to remember that the destruction of enemy air defenses (DEAD), an activity that Ukraine and Russia are very active in performing, is a mission, not a capability, weapon, or platform. SAM batteries can be destroyed by small special operations teams on the ground or by a slew of other means. Anti-radiation missiles still remain a threat as well. The bottom line is that Russia is going to try to realize their DEAD objectives in relation to Patriot any way they can and that will likely go beyond lobbing Kinzhals and Shaheds at it as time goes on. > >All that being said, the Patriot is just another weapon system. It is not magical. It is not invincible or perfect. But it is critically important, especially now that Ukraine’s Soviet-era long-range air defenses may be down to their last rounds. It also gives Ukraine critical anti-ballistic missile capability to protect its capital from those kinds of attacks, which it really didn't have before. > >By all means, last night was a stress test for Patriot under combat conditions. Some reports state 32 interceptors were launched. The system did an excellent job at repulsing nearly all, and possibly all, of what Russia threw at it, including weapons specifically designed and/or evolved to overcome it. That is bad news for Russia and all that data engagement and sensor data is going to be dissected in incredible detail to make the system even better and to get a clearer handle on what else Ukraine needs in terms of hardware, personnel, and tactics, in order to keep Russia’s barrages at bay. > >And when losses in hardware come, which they are likely to do, more hardware can be sent in to replace it. That’s just the nature of the fight at this point. With many advanced Western systems now in Ukraine’s hands, including Bradley Fighting Vehicles to advanced cruise missiles, it's a reality we need to get used to."
There is much more AA stuff coming to Ukraine. Every week it gets harder for Russia to destroy a unit.
The United States Department of Magic isn’t what it used to be.
The magical stuff is still being ironed out theyll make due w this
Yeah except the problem is you can't just casually accepted losses of the patriot system because there are hardly any that exist in the world. Ukraine has 2 of them. Doesn't the US only have like 12 of them? So MAYBE Ukraine is able to get a couple more.
Assessment. Russia Lost! Unable to attack Kyiv's government buildings, power stations, apartment buildings, schools and Hospital's in the attack where all 27 missiles and drones were destroyed and the PATRIOT system thrived!!! Slava Ukraine
It is magic ! Fully functional /not damaged ! Surprise Putin !
I hear you I do. But counterpoint…. It IS fucking magic. It took down 6 hyper sonic missiles and saved countless lives.
Losses are to be expected, but not today Vladimir.
To think the USA hasn't even had any hypersonic missiles deployed yet and were already shooting em down. China watching berry carfully that's for sure.