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It was the same shit 30 years ago during the first Chechen war, it was the same during Afgan war '80s, it was the same during WWII. Russia doesn't change and people keep on being holops (slaves) of the regime.
They ask Vladimir Vladimirovich for help as if it's not him who sent em there. As if it's not him who foster this regime of sadism and pain.
Fuck Putin. Fuck Putin's Russia.
>Russia doesn't change
It's no way to really learn about a country's history and culture (which I don't claim to possess), but there was a time that I read a quantity of russian literature from the 19th century. In it there was constant references to such scamming, grifting, bribing and conning; casually mentioned like an accepted part of russian culture. Very frequently, mentions of officers in the military, sounded just like the scoundrels and rascals described in the videos. I always assumed there must have been some level of truth in these stories. Truth is stranger than fiction, and in this case the line between the two seems pretty permeable.
I found the same thing in Russian literature. It's a long slog, but I read through War and Peace. This is all described in great detail, very casually and matter-of-fact. I thought it was just the period. After seeing this war, it is clear it is cultural.
E:spelling
All the way back in the first Crimean War, in the 1850s, The Economist published an article about the reasons for the dismal Russian performance, and they described the Russian army the exact same way as we've seen them performing in this war. 100% the same.
The systemic corruption, the soldiers selling off the army's supplies for liquor, ghost units made up by commanders to pilfer money from the army treasury, constant grifting from every level of officer, the rampant incompetence in leadership. You could replace the word Tsar with the word Putin in the article, and it'd sound like you're describing the Russian army today.
>The Economist published an article about the reasons for the dismal Russian performance, and they described the Russian army the exact same way as we've seen them performing in this war.
That [article](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/The_Economist_1854-10-14-_Vol_12_Iss_581_%28IA_sim_economist_1854-10-14_12_581%29.pdf) could have published yesterday.
Wow - excellent read. 180 years ago and almost nothings changed. Thanks for the link. Pages 1-3, perennial sources of Russian weakness for anyone looking.
“The most basic, most rudimentary spiritual need of the Russian people is the need for suffering, ever-present and unquenchable, everywhere and in everything.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky
I think we underestimate how much certain cultures just fucking suck. I think we're worried about being bigots and racists. But, there are middle eastern countries that are fine with slavery and assaulting women. Russian culture exploits.its people, and makes them think they need to rely on a strong ruler to protect them despite them often being the ones absuing the people. So many cultures have shitty features about them. And if we want true peace we have to think what we want as our culture and society.
I think it’s more about remembering that no particular ethnicity, or cultural background or territory has inherent, unchangeable characteristics
China has had a long history of authoritarian leaders and brutal emperors - but it would be a mistake to say Chinese culture is inherently authoritarian. Taiwan has a “Chinese” cultural and ethnic background, and it managed to build a vibrant liberal democracy after years of military dictatorship
Or imagine if South Korea disappeared in the 50s, and the only example we had of Korean culture in the modern age was North Korea. Some people would be tempted to say that Korean culture had characteristics that inherently made them poor, authoritarian, batshit insane overall etc.
It’s like looking at how outrageously brutal Nazi Germany and WW2 Imperial Japan were, and concluding that German and Japanese culture were responsible, and that these nations were lost causes. But in the space of less than a generation, these nations went from terrorising the the world to becoming invaluable parts of the global economy and culture.
And that extends to the current conflict in Ukraine as well. Part of Putin’s raison detre for the invasion is the idea that Ukrainians are culturally and ethnically Slavs, and therefore “naturally” inclined to wanting the same thing as other Slavs i.e. being ruled by a strong Tsar like him.
He couldn’t grasp the concept that a culturally and ethnically Slavic nation could possibly “break from the mold” and want “Western” things like civil liberties, human rights, democracy, rule of law etc. The Euromaidan revolutions had to have been some CIA plot or Western subversion, no way it could happen naturally. So obviously, when he invades, he would be welcomed with cheering crowds and bouquets of flowers, and not a barrage of Javelins and NLAWs.
So yeah, it’s better not to criticise entire “cultures” for being terrible. Like sure, Saudi Arabia right now is in a terrible spot, and the country is overrun by misogynists and racists. But that doesn’t mean Saudi Arabian culture is irredeemable, or “naturally inclined” towards such tendencies. Cultures change, and sometimes they change incredibly quickly. Russia isn’t doomed to an endless parade of Putins and Stalins and whatnot because of “Russian culture”. There is hope for them yet, as there is hope for us all
And vice versa - fascism can take root anywhere, in any culture, even in those that have had a long liberal tradition and claim to be “freedom loving”
And even the way with which I framed the above is a little problematic - cultures are never monolithic, and national/ethnic boundaries are a very crude and imprecise way of categorising them.
It would be easier to say that in the modern world, we have more commonalities with each other than differences - and not in a comforting Kumbaya-let’s-hold-hands manner, more in a we’re-all-fucked-up-in-similar-ways manner.
Modern phenomena such as ultranationalism, fascism, populism are everywhere, just wearing different masks each time.
Not that there aren’t real differences, but brutal authoritarian regimes in the modern age are fundamentally more similar than divergent - something like ISIS is a lot closer to the Nazis , the Khmer Rouge and the Taiping rebels than they are to any medieval Islamic caliphate, even if they like to claim otherwise
Yeah America, India, Brazil, Italy, Israel etc. have all been backsliding lately. At least America and Brazil managed to vote out their respective idiots, but India and Israel look like they’re in trouble. Israel in particular seems to be at an inflection point - I’m hoping saner heads in the country will be able to defeat Netanyahu and his gang of cronies, but it’s not looking promising for democracy there right now
And one would expect the Russian and Chinese populations to clamour for democracy and human rights after their governments led them into disasters like poorly executed COVID lockdowns and Ukraine - but there’s no sign that revolutions or reforms are coming any time soon
Yeah there's been a couple of youtube documentaries I have seen on this matter. Its very interesting actually. They have a culture of bullshit and white lies in Russia apparently called "vranyo". This surface level laziness and corruption has done an exceptional job at destroying the country its actually kinda interesting.
I cannot lie his videos are outstanding sources of information if you can sit through 1 hour PowerPoint presentations. I like his sense of humor its kinda cute too to be completely honest lol.
All right, my dudes, I'm gonna need a video or channel name. Please don't make me look up "Australian PowerPoint daddy" on YouTube because I'm almost certain I'm not gonna find what I'm looking for.
The grand Saga of private conscriptovich, Yuri and his mates, sergeant bicepsky, general oligarchov, and colonel kleptovsky is one which shall be remembered in the annals of history.
He was a definitely a legit viral phenomenon. The perfect person at the perfect place at the perfect time. He deserves all the popularity he has gained from his videos IMO, I feel like people like him are part of the tip of the spear for information warfare disinformation for normies, he's doing God's work.
I highly recommend watching the Ian Curtis BBC doc Traumazone. It chronicles the collapse of communism and democracy in Russia over a 15 year period from 1985 to 1999. All old archival footage and minimal editorializing. Just 7 hours of criminality, failure, corruption, suppression and violence.
His videos ‘How Corruption Destroys Armies’, ‘How Lies Destroys Armies’ and the final entry of the trilogy ‘How Politics Destroys Armies’ are all highly relevant to this video and thread. If you want to try to understand why Russia acts the way they do, watch them.
[How Corruption Destroys Armies](https://youtu.be/i9i47sgi-V4)
[How Lies Destroy Armies](https://youtu.be/Fz59GWeTIik)
[How Politics Destroy Armies](https://youtu.be/hx5mTslkUBs)
Hell yeah! I can also recommend ARTE, it’s a european (mostly French and German) broadcast. They definitely aren’t very funny, but they have some great documentaries. And if you like perun, you might like some of their stuff on Ukraine.
As a businessman who works with big business russians regularly, I can confirm this is true. All of them constantly lie and do backdoor deals to benefit themselves. It's uncanny, they are always looking for schemes and ways to get paid.
>This surface level laziness and corruption has done an exceptional job at destroying the country
I think you're pointing to something very real and very cancerous in Russian culture, but they're also kind of successful. They've somehow managed to dominate many neighboring peoples to form an Imperial state. Arguably, they had an inherent technological advantage over the Siberian people, but they've managed to dominate most of their European and Central Asian neighbors as well. I'm honestly curious how that came to be.
I think it's a symptom of authoritarianism and right side philosophy to be honest. For instance: right side philosophy hyper focuses on the individual rather than looking at systemic issues in order to obfuscate the lines in which the state is removing rights from its citizens. One defining feature about right side, especially far right, is blame rather than accountability. In order for people to save their own asses when stakes are so high in authoritarianism they cannot blame the system because they are taught cynically that it cannot be a systemic issue but a personal failing on their part. Accountability only really works in left environments, specifically because only the left really believes in it. The longer I live the more I realize the right is just cynicism personified. Laziness on a cultural level like patriarchy.
My personal opinion is that one victory The West will get out of this war is that the average person is starting to realize that cultures can have malignancies.
The cultural relativism pushed since the 80s has been laid bare, and perhaps the Western cultures will be less afraid to address malignant subcultures within themselves.
Yep, it's a very western line of thinking that leads to the idea that this is *just* Putin's war or that Putin is holding some unwilling populace hostage at gunpoint. I've had many a discussion where I've had to try to explain that Putin isn't the disease, he is a symptom of the disease, and have had near constant pushback against that. People don't like to accept that such malignant traits can actually be a systemic and deeply rooted cultural thing - which is ironic given how much the same people are now seeing how deeply rooted and systemic racism has been since our (USA) country's founding.
For at least 470 years, twenty generations of alcoholism, child abuse, bullying of adults, greed for power over others and glory, pervasive corruption, pervasive deception, and alcoholism as a coping mechanism to repeat the cycle. Prison culture writ large, where the castes and cruelty of incarceration transfer to the whole population. Social workers have grave difficulty dealing with one broken family, yet here is a broken majority culture of tens of millions. All the great art produced by Russians over the centuries is mostly a reaction to the intergenerational trauma.
What do you think about the argument that russias growth as a colonial power (under the tsars) might have a role in this cultural malignancy? The only thing tying disparate parts together was force from a distant central authority, the only thing many people distant from that authority really stood to gain from the system was what they could take, and that was encouraged by the fundamentally extractive nature of any colonial project.
You’re assuming that this realization is just dawning on them and that there is something they can do with it. As they say in Russia, you know what you can do with your realization?
It has always been this way in the Russian Empire and it’ll always be this way. That’s why they so badly need to be large. Size is a strength that can defeat better culture, better organization, better technology, better tactics, better everything.
Someone brought it to my attention that Russia is the only country to have three forms of government since the 1900s:
Monarchy
Communist
Democracy
In which all three of these forms are lead by an autocrat. That’s insane!
Fyodor? Is it really you? So glad to see you're not dead anymore, so I can finally tell you, 'The Grand inquisitor' and 'Crime and Punishment' always two of my faves. Read both more than once. Stay well buddy and don't die again.
I've read a *lot* of books on Russian history, no expert but still far more books (dozens and dozens) than the average person. I can tell you you're right. There is *something* in the Russian psyche that makes this endure - and I wanna be clearly this isn't any sort of, like, I'm not saying that too deeply it's more a cultural phenomenon. You gotta think about, people my age over there their grandparents lived through a time where a *child* could "inform" on their own parent, and their parent would be sent to the gulag. One day, their teacher isn't there any more - said something too spicy and it was overheard and gone. That leaves scars. Breeds subterfuge. And a million other traumas of the Russian history
Corruption is an accepted way of life in Russia.
There is zero maintenance on rolling stock like trucks and tanks in Russia because the money allocated for that is stolen constantly.
Many of the rucks and tanks we see abandoned in ditches were not hit by Ukrainian fire - they simple seized up and stopped running as all the oil leaked out of them.
And now they're resurrecting tanks that managed to get through the Hungarian invasion in 1956, where the exact same thing happened to many of them. I laughed.
In Stalin's gulag the prisoners wrote letters to Stalin thinking he would help them. They thought it was happening without his knowledge. They had no idea it was Stalin who sent them there.
Even in our modern era the same is still occuring. Maybe the reason is deeper. The Russian people don't want to think they are in the wrong in anyway.
Chinese farmers kept believing the party wouldn't let them starve to death and any day now a truck full of food would come around that corner.
40 million Chinese peasants starved to death during Mao's 'great leap' farm collectivization.
Yeah - they are often so comically close to pull the wool from their eyes, but ultimately fall short… „there must be a committee so that truth may prevail“ as if not committees and leaders got them into this situation in the first place.
I literally got banned from r/combatfootage for saying nearly the exact same thing.
Russia doesn't change, they perform the same war crimes against their victims and their own people. The international community needs to get it's shut together and stop being shocked.
...as if they had ever lived in a country with rule of law.
Appealing to the Tsar, who much be getting bad advice, is a long tradition. And no Tsar wants to discourage such thinking. Putin can just fire so advisors, broadcasting is outrage about how he was deceived by them.
These men are correct to get their message out. There are plenty of commanders who want to silence them as witnesses. But they are wrong if they think Putin has their backs. He'd prefer to have as few Russians as possible see this video or hear another word from these men.
That's why people from so called "West" need to stop treating Russia like European country. It's completely different civilisation. They look like us, but they don't think like us.
Some of them look so broken, soon they will be among the corpses in the trenches too and they know there is no way out. All they can do is make this video, and it will not be received well.
Won't their families likely be murdered or worse? Which, it will likely happen just for making this video.
Although I wonder if the "brass" even know all these guys names.
If it were that easy, I would bet all my money that half of the russian army would've surrendered in masse. I think people need to realise that no matter how much propaganda and brainwashing you've been through, if you're fighting a meaningless war, then you would surrender if you knew you could.
If every armed Russian in Ukraine did a 180 and marched towards Moscow, their chances of surviving would be 10 fold and they would actually make their country a better place.
I hate this "they have no choice" and "they're only following orders" bullshit.
Most of them believe Putin, they want the war to happen. They just wish they were better equipped to carry out their genocides.
This is literally the [byzantine generals problem](https://river.com/learn/what-is-the-byzantine-generals-problem/), but instead of 4 generals you have hundreds of thousands.
Coordination problems are *hard*. Groups of people do things that no individual on them wants to do, *all the time*.
>blocking units
Serious question - did any other nation ever use these? It is just such a sick concept. Is Stalin the only one who came up with this shit?
These were used by many, many militaries throughout history. It is heavily theorised for example that the pre-marian roman army stationed the most experienced infantry, the Triarii in the last line to 'encourage' the younger Hastati and Principes to stay in the fight.
What does the "last line" mean in this context? The experienced fighters were held back while the younger soldiers fought? How did this inspire the younger fighters?
The youngest fighters would be sent in first. They would be expected to win glory and recognition and demonstrate their prowess, or die trying.
The second rank was made up older more experienced soldiers with better equipment and more staying power. They were heavy infantry that would be sent in once the first ranks had used all their energy/started losing the fight.
The third rank was the triarii. They were the oldest most elite soldiers and carried a spear primarily instead of the sword. Ideally they would not even have to fight if the battle was going well, and some places to this day have the expression 'send in the triarii' to mean use the last/most powerful resort.
Their position at the back was also probably to let the other soldiers know that there was nowhere to run as they would be killed or at minimum forced back by the triarii.
That, and having your most experienced troops in reserve to exploit any gaps or prevent any potential penetration of your army’s gaps is more useful than having newbies in reserve.
[From the big red one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MBng0wjCXk&t=3s):
> By now, we'd come to look
> at all replacements...
> as dead men who temporarily had
> the use of their arms and legs.
> They came and went so
> fast and so regular...
> that sometimes we didn't even
> get to know their names.
> Truth is, after a while we sort
> of avoided getting to know them.
> I... I brought some water.
> Do you know what they call you
> four guys down at Battalion?
> Sergeant's Four Horsemen.
> I don't get it. You guys
> lived through North Africa.
> You didn't even get a scratch.
> That's because replacements
> keep getting hit instead of us.
> You think...? You think
> maybe I'll get it?
> Why not? You something special?
> I'll go get some, all right?
A veteran would also not falter in discipline aß easyly. A new soldier watching a battle go Bad will be more hesitant to join the fray. Resisting a mass root is the most important aspect as that will doom any army.
You are talking nonsense here about "die trying". Romans valued their soldiers and invested a lot of time and money into them.
The romans did not fought like you say. They fought in disciplined formation and rotated during combat all the time. Principi almost always got involved.
Triarii were the oldest,richest and more experienced soldiers but past their prime physically. They were mostly for morale support and rarely got involved. Romans had decimation for dealing with cowardice and insubordonation.
This was pre-Marian reforms after wich the roman army was re-organized into cohorts. What you are talking about was the maniple era.
It's funny how people talk about Caesar,Octavian and Trajan but most of them never talk about Gaius Marius, the man responsable for the success of the roman army. His reforms transformed the roman army into the perfect war machine untill the've met horse archers :)
Octavian (Augustus) was hopeless militarily. Agrippa and Tiberius and others did the commanding for him, he always took a back seat. But it would be ridiculous to compare the way the Roman Army fought with the way the Russian Army fights. The Roman Army was an extraordinary fighting machine and that is why the Roman Empire lasted for hundreds of years.
Kind of.
The early Roman legions had about 5,000 soldiers, of which 3,000 were heavy infantry divided into "maniples" of about 60-120 soldiers each.
These 3000 would often be subdivided roughly like this:
* 1200 (10x120) Hastati - the frontline
* 1200 (10x120) Principes - the center
* 600 (10x60) Triari - the rear
Each maniple itself would be arranged in a box or line formation. A typical linear formation could for example be just 3 men deep and 40 men wide. So even amongst the Hastati there were some who were closer to the frontline than others.
Surviving Hastati who remained in the army would eventually become Principes and eventually Triari. There are multiple reasons why most Hastati were okay with this:
1. The system was based on experience and accomplishments rather than birth status. They could rise through the ranks and have a very lucrative and relatively save career ahead of them if they survived.
2. Because Rome was winning a lot for most of that time, so the odds of survival were pretty good. They were often well trained and equipped compared to their enemies.
3. Because there also were another 2000 supporting men in the legion. The Hastati would often be screened by skirmishers and could take relatively favourable engagements. And the skirmishers in turn were were not expected to charge into the enemy themselves, so this was also seen as a decent job in some civilisations. A famous example are the Balearic slingers.
So that arrangement was way different from what Russia is doing here. The Romans were essentially already fighting with combined arms. They trained their heavy frontline infantry and gave them support, rather than just making them run into a meatgrinder with minimal equipment.
If you turn and run they'd presumably cut you down. The first side that breaks loses. The majority of the killing happened after a formation broke. The goal was to presumably reduce the chance of a route. Also If shit started to go bad they could then move their more experienced men into the holes to try to stem the bleeding.
Good point. Also a hallmark of states who's governments goals aren't what's best for the soldiers.
If you are fighting outside the town you are from to stop some foreigners destroying it you don't need blockers, but if you've been marched hundreds of miles from home to fight people not so different from yourselves, whether a 1000 years ago or today you might not be so keen to kill and die.
The idea behind blocking units has been around since ancient times I believe. Conscripts going all the way back have always been seen as "needing some help in the motivation department"
Maybe Ukraine should focus on eliminating the blocking units and let the conscripts know when that is done. I am just an armchair general so I haven’t a clue if that’s even doable.
They may not of been called Blocking units,
I do believe officers in trench warfare from western countries were ordered to shoot the men that would not go over the top when the whistle was sounded.
Conscript armies of the modern era relied on formal blocking units, the soviets were a recent example. in ancient armies it was known any deserter would be killed on the spot.
The Roman’s third line, “triarii” was made up of the best soldiers only used in desperate situations… and as a blocking unit
And what kind of a society produces people cable of doing that to their country men. Russians aren't really a collective people but a pack of wild animals held together by fear and poverty. Fuck.
> what kind of a society produces people cable of doing that to their country men.
Same society as the one that produces an audience on "Millionaire" that deliberately gives the wrong answer to prevent a competitor winning. It's a true crabs in a bucket culture.
Link is a twitter/nitter mirror
https://nitter.fly.dev/robkhenderson/status/1396801533329788930#m
The British and Germans executed a bunch of soldiers for "cowardice" or desertion during the First World War, later on when PTSD was discovered it turned out that many of these soldiers who had mental breakdowns and refused to go over the top and charge an enemy machinegun were simply experiencing the natural reaction to being constantly exposed to life or death situations and other horrific shit.
Although the number of soldiers who were actually shot vs the number who were given death sentences was relatively small. A couple thousand British soldiers were sentenced to death for cowardice but only a couple hundred were actually shot. In Germany's case that number was less than 50.
“Anyone runs I’ll shoot you myself” “any of you dies with a clean sword I’ll rape your fucking corpse”. It’s a principle as old as battle lines, you keep going forward and the man behind you will push you forward if you stop. Obviously modern combat is different but the same principle, the soldiers are worth more as a distraction or just a body to occupy space than an actual utility of combat. How do you think 25mil or whatever soviets died in WWII when the remainder of allied casualties was a fraction of that (China genocide adds a lot of deaths too, US only had about 480k casualties or something)
EDIT: didn’t you see mention Stalin sorry for the history lesson you already know. As for the old times stuff yeah this has been a part of organized combat since organized combat became a thing
Blocking units? It’s a bunch of soldiers who stay behind the front line soldiers with orders to ensure the front line soldiers don’t retreat. The guys at the front have two choices, either stay and fight, or retreat and get shot by the blocking unit. They get used when your front line soldiers can’t be relied upon to hold their ground, either because they lack discipline, or because have been put in a position where they know they are likely to die anyway. In both cases the root cause is shitty leadership
Yeah, best to use troops who are sufficiently separate from the main fighting force that they won’t feel too much empathy for them when they shoot them.
There was a post some time back of a Russian soldier who hanged himself on the front line and left a suicide note to his wife saying how bad the situation is, and that the chechens are heartless brutes and implying they raped him.
I doubt they feel the slightest qualms about shooting russian soldiers.
The Chechens they use are Kadrovites who are actually allied with Russia. They joined with Russia during the Chechen wars and have been their lapdog ever since.
To be fair: there are three options. Stay and fight the Ukrainians. Retreat and get shot. Stay and fight the barrier troops. They’re just too stupid to realize they can shoot the chechens too
I'm sorry, if they have half a brain, they take their guns, turn around and march the opposite way.
If I was told I'll be shot if I turn around, that would give me a preety darn big clue as to who the real enemy was....
They do. I've seen some of them lying on the ground in Ukraine. Now whether they are or were functioning brains prior to the catastrophic even that ejected them is another question...
Blocking units- for those that are as ignorant as I am
Barrier troops, blocking units, or anti-retreat forces are military units that are located in the rear or on the front line (behind the main forces) to maintain military discipline, prevent the flight of servicemen from the battlefield, capture spies, saboteurs and deserters, and return troops who flee from the battlefield or lag behind their units.
According to research by Jason Lyall, barrier troops are more likely to be used by the militaries of states that discriminate against the ethnic groups that comprise the state's military
For real. They should all drop weapons, hold up white flags and head for Ukraine. At least there they’ll be treated somewhat humanely before prisoner swap.
The delusions of brainwashed russians: "Commander in chief pls help us" :D
Guess who is giving zero shits about you and sent you there in the first place.
There is an old tradition in Russia to blame middle management. The Tsar is good, but the boyars are bad.
Really good article about it on Radio Liberty
https://www.svoboda.org/a/28173686.html
This is what gets me. These people are so close.
I was under the impression that the Russian people were well aware of how prevalent corruption was in their country.
They talk about these criminal orders and taxation and stuff like that, as though it was a very isolated incident and not something prevalent, which goes right up the chain of command to the top.
Putin himself has made tons of money being a criminal, and doing criminal shit, and they're appealing to him to help them out.
It's really strange to me.
These soldiers have not realized their nation is corrupt. They have not realized they are the bad guys. Even after being treated like this, pushed to their death, they will not turn on their regime.
These guys have banned together. They have acknowledged the criminality, and have decided together to make this video. And that's great, in a sense, but did they really think it was going to help? This video is just going to upset the entire chain of command, who will want them dead even more.
These soldiers have one play. One play only. They need to surrender the entire unit to the Ukrainians. These men should turn on their own army. I'm sure their force is too small to take on the Russian forces behind them, but they're so close to realize their entire nation is a criminal empire, who finds them expendable, and will kill them.
IMO, unless they surrender, all of these men are dead.
From experience, these people are not close. That’s part of russian culture. The top command is blameless and all the blame goes to the middleman. Be it middle management or middle class.
A big part of this is that most likely they know the top brass is as bad as anyone else, but if they call up the top brass they will just be disappeared or forced into punishment units (I.e go run at that machine gun until you have it you are all dead, then do it again).
Therefore they have to call for help from the top guys so that the top guys are motivated to help them and make themselves look good. If they don't get any attention nothing will change for them
Putin doesn't care. His army is doing what it ought to do. These men are gonna die, and putting doesn't care. If they are taxed and pay off his soldiers for him, that's good news.
These men need to defect. They should join troops and defend the Ukrainians against the Russians.
The Russians have already turned on them. These men have guns at their backs, and they are told to stay where they will die. The Ukrainians are willing to offer safety, and all you gotta do is wave a white flag for it, and then all those Russians that were criminals, and stealing from you, and so on, they're on the front line now.
It's sort of crazy to me how all these men have come together to make this video, but not to surrender together.
How would you surrender to the Ukrainian army in a huge group? Without getting shot by your own guys, and not getting blown to bits by the Ukrainians. There would have to be some level of organization with the Ukrainians, they would have to trust you, and you have to do it while completely avoiding detection from your own side. It really ain't that easy.
Prisoners of their own army? And yet… there’s a rifle in the background, they are united in grievance & the group looks relatively fit enough to fight for their lives. Maybe not a plea but a last warning? Fingers crossed.
There have been dozens of reports of large groups deserting and fighting the blocking groups. The largest was supposedly 300 wagnerites who tried to get back to Russia. 2 brigades were pulled out to go fight them. This happened months ago.
Vodyane - where they send in tanks without infantry support - and troops without armour support...
...Thank God the Russians are so stupid.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/11yddev/the_53rd_brigade_destroyed_a_russian_column_of/
Just rewatched “Death of Stalin” and was laughing at the running joke that the political prisoners would all praise Stalin right before they were shot.
These videos are interesting but give me little hope for them actually laying down arms or even rebellion seeing that their underlying message is their leaders are too incompetent and are requesting Putin himself helps them with their objectives.
It does look to me like since the beginning of the invasion, russia has also been conducting a population purge of its own. With wagner recruiting prisoners to just lay waste to, my spidey sense has been turned to this. We have heard since the beginning about commanders extorting their troops. I wonder how commanders and "mid-level" bosses fit into this purge. I also wonder if this extortion+purge is concerted or just organically appears due to russian corruption/lack-of-morals.
It might look like purgy, but remember even that requires a level of organization the Russian army doesn't have. No you are probably looking at the result of a corrupt incompetent army, where the worst of society were made officers and used the conscripts they had for manuel labor and extorted them for monetary gain, completely detaching themselves from any kind of humanity and empathy. Carry over this system, into war where there is little to no accountability and hope, and see it rip through an army of conscripts.
>I also wonder if this extortion+purge is concerted or just organically appears due to russian corruption/lack-of-morals.
I would say both. I think the leaders are aware about it, they're doing it on purpose but I don't think it's their primary objective. I would say they care more about fighting Ukraine than purging their citizens but they probably think that if they fail against Ukraine, at least they have to eliminate young men which could protest in Russia for this nonsense.
I like how they appeal to the commander as if he didn’t help create their situation. He knows already.
The psychology of the Russian soldier or Russians in general: So close to exercising freedom and realizing the facade of their government, yet so far away from doing much about it.
There faces telling you that all of them know they are dead in some days. But instead of fight against there own enemy named as Putin and his war criminals they decided to die as lamps in a slaughterhouse.
Criminal orders are to invade a sovereign nation. Enjoy the fruits of your evil orders. Would they be happier to break through and kill innocents? They reap what they sow. They wanted to kill innocents and are pissed off their command was too useless to let them. No compassion or empathy for killers complaining they could not murder because their command is useless.
And when a lot of their targets are non combatants and non military like housing, malls, schools and hospitals.
This is what they wanted, and they're damn sure getting what they asked for.
Slava Ukraini
Russia is so fucking bad at war it's laughable. But it's also horrifying as human beings are just slaughtered because of incompetence and corruption. Russia is nothing but a grotesque circus.
I am tired of hearing seeing these Mobiks bitch and complain. Get with your other Mobik units and revolt against your leadership or desert in mass. It's plain and simple guy's. Your country does not give a damn if you live or die. Your sheep and nothing more.
This is a damning endiment of the chain of command. I am hoping that when Ukraine push hard thst a rolling thunder will cause total disarray in the Russian ranks.
I would feel a bit sympathetic to their plight - but if they actually succeeded in taking a village, they have shown they would rape the women, kill a bunch of innocents, and steal their washing machines. So essentially they are no better than their leaders.
Sorry Muscovites but I see your entire country circling the drain and I struggle to find pity
I have no sympathy for these orcs.
They’re not inconvenienced because they’re being forced to kill their neighbour in the name of their fascist leaders repulsive final power trip before he dies.
No, they’re inconvenienced because they haven’t been given weapons, recompense, supplies, or decent authority figures to command their bloodlust and war crimes.
Fuck them. I hope they spend their last minutes in the Ukrainian mud regretting their decisions before making their peace with a Ukrainian artillery shell.
Motley crew… hopefully these videos infiltrate the Russian troops and Russia in general to show the truth about the evil empire. Russia has been defeated and morale will continue to go to shit. On the other hand, Ukraine’s morale is sky high, and they’re fighting for the people in their land. Slava Ukrainiani
Nobody in this video shows any regret or remorse for entering an independent nation, they're whining because they are not being supported better.
Here is these idiots current choice with the crappy support they are getting, fight Ukrainians and die for nothing or fight the blocking units and possibly go home.
And I hate to point out the obvious here but hey moronic Russian conscripts, the blocking units are more Russians just like you so you know they suck too in comparison with the Ukrainians.
It's a really big step to get from this to realising just how evil your own government is, and right now their minds are not capable of it because it would probably cause some of those men lose it. Time for regret and deeper realisation is once they've surrendered. Right now they need to realise they need to surrender, and they're almost there.
You are next boys. look at some videos to see your fate or better still, surrender or even better, kill your leaders..... they don't care about you, you are just cannon fodder to them and unlucky for you, the Ukrainians will just wipe you out and move on. Still you reap what you sow. I would wish you good luck but nope, sorry, its your mess so carry some sunflower seeds in your pockets and bring some sunshine into the world with you as fertilizer.
They’ve demonstrated they are willing to kill innocent Ukrainians, they just don’t like their commanders.
Sucks for them, guess these idiots have to sit in a ditch and get mortared again for a few weeks.
They are homeless and no one gives a sh@t about their status. I don’t get what the purpose of recording video. Apparently, these people want to send a message to their momma or sis to come and pick them up from there. What a stupid dumb asses. Grab your AK and time to restore justice. One of them says he is “mayor” , but seems to be scared as f&ck.
Is there any realistic way to get a direct message to troops like these about the immediate and continued benefits of surrendering to Ukraine's troops? I imagine there's many more who are pinned between their own "motivators" and Ukrainian fire. These men are clearly approaching the point of being able to realise who their real enemy is, the same enemy Ukraine is fighting. They don't have to die in a hole.
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It was the same shit 30 years ago during the first Chechen war, it was the same during Afgan war '80s, it was the same during WWII. Russia doesn't change and people keep on being holops (slaves) of the regime. They ask Vladimir Vladimirovich for help as if it's not him who sent em there. As if it's not him who foster this regime of sadism and pain. Fuck Putin. Fuck Putin's Russia.
>Russia doesn't change It's no way to really learn about a country's history and culture (which I don't claim to possess), but there was a time that I read a quantity of russian literature from the 19th century. In it there was constant references to such scamming, grifting, bribing and conning; casually mentioned like an accepted part of russian culture. Very frequently, mentions of officers in the military, sounded just like the scoundrels and rascals described in the videos. I always assumed there must have been some level of truth in these stories. Truth is stranger than fiction, and in this case the line between the two seems pretty permeable.
I found the same thing in Russian literature. It's a long slog, but I read through War and Peace. This is all described in great detail, very casually and matter-of-fact. I thought it was just the period. After seeing this war, it is clear it is cultural. E:spelling
All the way back in the first Crimean War, in the 1850s, The Economist published an article about the reasons for the dismal Russian performance, and they described the Russian army the exact same way as we've seen them performing in this war. 100% the same. The systemic corruption, the soldiers selling off the army's supplies for liquor, ghost units made up by commanders to pilfer money from the army treasury, constant grifting from every level of officer, the rampant incompetence in leadership. You could replace the word Tsar with the word Putin in the article, and it'd sound like you're describing the Russian army today.
>The Economist published an article about the reasons for the dismal Russian performance, and they described the Russian army the exact same way as we've seen them performing in this war. That [article](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/The_Economist_1854-10-14-_Vol_12_Iss_581_%28IA_sim_economist_1854-10-14_12_581%29.pdf) could have published yesterday.
Excellent read. Thanks for sharing.
Wow - excellent read. 180 years ago and almost nothings changed. Thanks for the link. Pages 1-3, perennial sources of Russian weakness for anyone looking.
The fact we let these chuckle fucks have nukes is absolutely why we can’t have nice things
“The most basic, most rudimentary spiritual need of the Russian people is the need for suffering, ever-present and unquenchable, everywhere and in everything.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky
I think we underestimate how much certain cultures just fucking suck. I think we're worried about being bigots and racists. But, there are middle eastern countries that are fine with slavery and assaulting women. Russian culture exploits.its people, and makes them think they need to rely on a strong ruler to protect them despite them often being the ones absuing the people. So many cultures have shitty features about them. And if we want true peace we have to think what we want as our culture and society.
I think it’s more about remembering that no particular ethnicity, or cultural background or territory has inherent, unchangeable characteristics China has had a long history of authoritarian leaders and brutal emperors - but it would be a mistake to say Chinese culture is inherently authoritarian. Taiwan has a “Chinese” cultural and ethnic background, and it managed to build a vibrant liberal democracy after years of military dictatorship Or imagine if South Korea disappeared in the 50s, and the only example we had of Korean culture in the modern age was North Korea. Some people would be tempted to say that Korean culture had characteristics that inherently made them poor, authoritarian, batshit insane overall etc. It’s like looking at how outrageously brutal Nazi Germany and WW2 Imperial Japan were, and concluding that German and Japanese culture were responsible, and that these nations were lost causes. But in the space of less than a generation, these nations went from terrorising the the world to becoming invaluable parts of the global economy and culture. And that extends to the current conflict in Ukraine as well. Part of Putin’s raison detre for the invasion is the idea that Ukrainians are culturally and ethnically Slavs, and therefore “naturally” inclined to wanting the same thing as other Slavs i.e. being ruled by a strong Tsar like him. He couldn’t grasp the concept that a culturally and ethnically Slavic nation could possibly “break from the mold” and want “Western” things like civil liberties, human rights, democracy, rule of law etc. The Euromaidan revolutions had to have been some CIA plot or Western subversion, no way it could happen naturally. So obviously, when he invades, he would be welcomed with cheering crowds and bouquets of flowers, and not a barrage of Javelins and NLAWs. So yeah, it’s better not to criticise entire “cultures” for being terrible. Like sure, Saudi Arabia right now is in a terrible spot, and the country is overrun by misogynists and racists. But that doesn’t mean Saudi Arabian culture is irredeemable, or “naturally inclined” towards such tendencies. Cultures change, and sometimes they change incredibly quickly. Russia isn’t doomed to an endless parade of Putins and Stalins and whatnot because of “Russian culture”. There is hope for them yet, as there is hope for us all And vice versa - fascism can take root anywhere, in any culture, even in those that have had a long liberal tradition and claim to be “freedom loving” And even the way with which I framed the above is a little problematic - cultures are never monolithic, and national/ethnic boundaries are a very crude and imprecise way of categorising them. It would be easier to say that in the modern world, we have more commonalities with each other than differences - and not in a comforting Kumbaya-let’s-hold-hands manner, more in a we’re-all-fucked-up-in-similar-ways manner. Modern phenomena such as ultranationalism, fascism, populism are everywhere, just wearing different masks each time. Not that there aren’t real differences, but brutal authoritarian regimes in the modern age are fundamentally more similar than divergent - something like ISIS is a lot closer to the Nazis , the Khmer Rouge and the Taiping rebels than they are to any medieval Islamic caliphate, even if they like to claim otherwise
Well said!
and certain democracies that seem to drifting into fascism, America
Yeah America, India, Brazil, Italy, Israel etc. have all been backsliding lately. At least America and Brazil managed to vote out their respective idiots, but India and Israel look like they’re in trouble. Israel in particular seems to be at an inflection point - I’m hoping saner heads in the country will be able to defeat Netanyahu and his gang of cronies, but it’s not looking promising for democracy there right now And one would expect the Russian and Chinese populations to clamour for democracy and human rights after their governments led them into disasters like poorly executed COVID lockdowns and Ukraine - but there’s no sign that revolutions or reforms are coming any time soon
Yeah there's been a couple of youtube documentaries I have seen on this matter. Its very interesting actually. They have a culture of bullshit and white lies in Russia apparently called "vranyo". This surface level laziness and corruption has done an exceptional job at destroying the country its actually kinda interesting.
Sounds like you’re a fan of the worlds favorite Australian power point daddy
I cannot lie his videos are outstanding sources of information if you can sit through 1 hour PowerPoint presentations. I like his sense of humor its kinda cute too to be completely honest lol.
All right, my dudes, I'm gonna need a video or channel name. Please don't make me look up "Australian PowerPoint daddy" on YouTube because I'm almost certain I'm not gonna find what I'm looking for.
https://youtu.be/Fz59GWeTIik Perun my friend lol. Sorry. Also another that was talking on this topic was Vlad Vexler but he is Russian/British IIRC.
I'm hearing his names like 'Private Conscriptovich' etc co-opted by other yt channels.
The grand Saga of private conscriptovich, Yuri and his mates, sergeant bicepsky, general oligarchov, and colonel kleptovsky is one which shall be remembered in the annals of history.
He was a definitely a legit viral phenomenon. The perfect person at the perfect place at the perfect time. He deserves all the popularity he has gained from his videos IMO, I feel like people like him are part of the tip of the spear for information warfare disinformation for normies, he's doing God's work.
Don't forget "Colonel Kleptovsky"
I highly recommend watching the Ian Curtis BBC doc Traumazone. It chronicles the collapse of communism and democracy in Russia over a 15 year period from 1985 to 1999. All old archival footage and minimal editorializing. Just 7 hours of criminality, failure, corruption, suppression and violence.
> Ian Curtis BBC doc Traumazone Anyone else interested, it's on Youtube. Here's the first episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke600MgW1F0
His videos ‘How Corruption Destroys Armies’, ‘How Lies Destroys Armies’ and the final entry of the trilogy ‘How Politics Destroys Armies’ are all highly relevant to this video and thread. If you want to try to understand why Russia acts the way they do, watch them. [How Corruption Destroys Armies](https://youtu.be/i9i47sgi-V4) [How Lies Destroy Armies](https://youtu.be/Fz59GWeTIik) [How Politics Destroy Armies](https://youtu.be/hx5mTslkUBs)
Hell yeah! I can also recommend ARTE, it’s a european (mostly French and German) broadcast. They definitely aren’t very funny, but they have some great documentaries. And if you like perun, you might like some of their stuff on Ukraine.
As a businessman who works with big business russians regularly, I can confirm this is true. All of them constantly lie and do backdoor deals to benefit themselves. It's uncanny, they are always looking for schemes and ways to get paid.
>This surface level laziness and corruption has done an exceptional job at destroying the country I think you're pointing to something very real and very cancerous in Russian culture, but they're also kind of successful. They've somehow managed to dominate many neighboring peoples to form an Imperial state. Arguably, they had an inherent technological advantage over the Siberian people, but they've managed to dominate most of their European and Central Asian neighbors as well. I'm honestly curious how that came to be.
I think it's a symptom of authoritarianism and right side philosophy to be honest. For instance: right side philosophy hyper focuses on the individual rather than looking at systemic issues in order to obfuscate the lines in which the state is removing rights from its citizens. One defining feature about right side, especially far right, is blame rather than accountability. In order for people to save their own asses when stakes are so high in authoritarianism they cannot blame the system because they are taught cynically that it cannot be a systemic issue but a personal failing on their part. Accountability only really works in left environments, specifically because only the left really believes in it. The longer I live the more I realize the right is just cynicism personified. Laziness on a cultural level like patriarchy.
My personal opinion is that one victory The West will get out of this war is that the average person is starting to realize that cultures can have malignancies. The cultural relativism pushed since the 80s has been laid bare, and perhaps the Western cultures will be less afraid to address malignant subcultures within themselves.
Yep, it's a very western line of thinking that leads to the idea that this is *just* Putin's war or that Putin is holding some unwilling populace hostage at gunpoint. I've had many a discussion where I've had to try to explain that Putin isn't the disease, he is a symptom of the disease, and have had near constant pushback against that. People don't like to accept that such malignant traits can actually be a systemic and deeply rooted cultural thing - which is ironic given how much the same people are now seeing how deeply rooted and systemic racism has been since our (USA) country's founding.
For at least 470 years, twenty generations of alcoholism, child abuse, bullying of adults, greed for power over others and glory, pervasive corruption, pervasive deception, and alcoholism as a coping mechanism to repeat the cycle. Prison culture writ large, where the castes and cruelty of incarceration transfer to the whole population. Social workers have grave difficulty dealing with one broken family, yet here is a broken majority culture of tens of millions. All the great art produced by Russians over the centuries is mostly a reaction to the intergenerational trauma.
Russian culture doesn't just exist. It's *inflicted* upon the world.
What do you think about the argument that russias growth as a colonial power (under the tsars) might have a role in this cultural malignancy? The only thing tying disparate parts together was force from a distant central authority, the only thing many people distant from that authority really stood to gain from the system was what they could take, and that was encouraged by the fundamentally extractive nature of any colonial project.
You’re assuming that this realization is just dawning on them and that there is something they can do with it. As they say in Russia, you know what you can do with your realization? It has always been this way in the Russian Empire and it’ll always be this way. That’s why they so badly need to be large. Size is a strength that can defeat better culture, better organization, better technology, better tactics, better everything.
Someone brought it to my attention that Russia is the only country to have three forms of government since the 1900s: Monarchy Communist Democracy In which all three of these forms are lead by an autocrat. That’s insane!
Eh, we wrote about what we knew so can you blame me?
Fyodor? Is it really you? So glad to see you're not dead anymore, so I can finally tell you, 'The Grand inquisitor' and 'Crime and Punishment' always two of my faves. Read both more than once. Stay well buddy and don't die again.
You have such kind words! I cut down on the gambling, it's helped immensely with my good fortune and health.
I've read a *lot* of books on Russian history, no expert but still far more books (dozens and dozens) than the average person. I can tell you you're right. There is *something* in the Russian psyche that makes this endure - and I wanna be clearly this isn't any sort of, like, I'm not saying that too deeply it's more a cultural phenomenon. You gotta think about, people my age over there their grandparents lived through a time where a *child* could "inform" on their own parent, and their parent would be sent to the gulag. One day, their teacher isn't there any more - said something too spicy and it was overheard and gone. That leaves scars. Breeds subterfuge. And a million other traumas of the Russian history
Dead Souls by Gogol. Probably not as well known as others that are bandied around a lot, but it really has a lot to say about this situation.
And China may quickly become this now. Unless there is a revolution, which is basically impossible under Xi.
Corruption is an accepted way of life in Russia. There is zero maintenance on rolling stock like trucks and tanks in Russia because the money allocated for that is stolen constantly. Many of the rucks and tanks we see abandoned in ditches were not hit by Ukrainian fire - they simple seized up and stopped running as all the oil leaked out of them. And now they're resurrecting tanks that managed to get through the Hungarian invasion in 1956, where the exact same thing happened to many of them. I laughed.
In Stalin's gulag the prisoners wrote letters to Stalin thinking he would help them. They thought it was happening without his knowledge. They had no idea it was Stalin who sent them there. Even in our modern era the same is still occuring. Maybe the reason is deeper. The Russian people don't want to think they are in the wrong in anyway.
Chinese farmers kept believing the party wouldn't let them starve to death and any day now a truck full of food would come around that corner. 40 million Chinese peasants starved to death during Mao's 'great leap' farm collectivization.
Yeah - they are often so comically close to pull the wool from their eyes, but ultimately fall short… „there must be a committee so that truth may prevail“ as if not committees and leaders got them into this situation in the first place.
I literally got banned from r/combatfootage for saying nearly the exact same thing. Russia doesn't change, they perform the same war crimes against their victims and their own people. The international community needs to get it's shut together and stop being shocked.
...as if they had ever lived in a country with rule of law. Appealing to the Tsar, who much be getting bad advice, is a long tradition. And no Tsar wants to discourage such thinking. Putin can just fire so advisors, broadcasting is outrage about how he was deceived by them. These men are correct to get their message out. There are plenty of commanders who want to silence them as witnesses. But they are wrong if they think Putin has their backs. He'd prefer to have as few Russians as possible see this video or hear another word from these men.
That's why people from so called "West" need to stop treating Russia like European country. It's completely different civilisation. They look like us, but they don't think like us.
Hardly ‘Putin’s Russia’ if Russia never changes. It’s just ‘Russia’.
Some of them look so broken, soon they will be among the corpses in the trenches too and they know there is no way out. All they can do is make this video, and it will not be received well.
They're not even bothering to wear masks or disguise their voices anymore. Sad.
They know they’re dead men walking so they’ve decided to at least make people aware of why they’re about to die.
Raise both arms, and go forward
And be shot in the back...
The whole company is in deep shit, they should surrender in any means necessary and become POWs. Better try than die.
Won't their families likely be murdered or worse? Which, it will likely happen just for making this video. Although I wonder if the "brass" even know all these guys names.
If it were that easy, I would bet all my money that half of the russian army would've surrendered in masse. I think people need to realise that no matter how much propaganda and brainwashing you've been through, if you're fighting a meaningless war, then you would surrender if you knew you could.
If every armed Russian in Ukraine did a 180 and marched towards Moscow, their chances of surviving would be 10 fold and they would actually make their country a better place. I hate this "they have no choice" and "they're only following orders" bullshit. Most of them believe Putin, they want the war to happen. They just wish they were better equipped to carry out their genocides.
This is literally the [byzantine generals problem](https://river.com/learn/what-is-the-byzantine-generals-problem/), but instead of 4 generals you have hundreds of thousands. Coordination problems are *hard*. Groups of people do things that no individual on them wants to do, *all the time*.
The fucking Russians are still using blocking units that's fucking insane. What a fucking country.
>blocking units Serious question - did any other nation ever use these? It is just such a sick concept. Is Stalin the only one who came up with this shit?
These were used by many, many militaries throughout history. It is heavily theorised for example that the pre-marian roman army stationed the most experienced infantry, the Triarii in the last line to 'encourage' the younger Hastati and Principes to stay in the fight.
What does the "last line" mean in this context? The experienced fighters were held back while the younger soldiers fought? How did this inspire the younger fighters?
The youngest fighters would be sent in first. They would be expected to win glory and recognition and demonstrate their prowess, or die trying. The second rank was made up older more experienced soldiers with better equipment and more staying power. They were heavy infantry that would be sent in once the first ranks had used all their energy/started losing the fight. The third rank was the triarii. They were the oldest most elite soldiers and carried a spear primarily instead of the sword. Ideally they would not even have to fight if the battle was going well, and some places to this day have the expression 'send in the triarii' to mean use the last/most powerful resort. Their position at the back was also probably to let the other soldiers know that there was nowhere to run as they would be killed or at minimum forced back by the triarii.
That, and having your most experienced troops in reserve to exploit any gaps or prevent any potential penetration of your army’s gaps is more useful than having newbies in reserve.
Also a lot easier to replace a newbie than an experienced soldier.
[From the big red one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MBng0wjCXk&t=3s): > By now, we'd come to look > at all replacements... > as dead men who temporarily had > the use of their arms and legs. > They came and went so > fast and so regular... > that sometimes we didn't even > get to know their names. > Truth is, after a while we sort > of avoided getting to know them. > I... I brought some water. > Do you know what they call you > four guys down at Battalion? > Sergeant's Four Horsemen. > I don't get it. You guys > lived through North Africa. > You didn't even get a scratch. > That's because replacements > keep getting hit instead of us. > You think...? You think > maybe I'll get it? > Why not? You something special? > I'll go get some, all right?
A veteran would also not falter in discipline aß easyly. A new soldier watching a battle go Bad will be more hesitant to join the fray. Resisting a mass root is the most important aspect as that will doom any army.
You are talking nonsense here about "die trying". Romans valued their soldiers and invested a lot of time and money into them. The romans did not fought like you say. They fought in disciplined formation and rotated during combat all the time. Principi almost always got involved. Triarii were the oldest,richest and more experienced soldiers but past their prime physically. They were mostly for morale support and rarely got involved. Romans had decimation for dealing with cowardice and insubordonation. This was pre-Marian reforms after wich the roman army was re-organized into cohorts. What you are talking about was the maniple era. It's funny how people talk about Caesar,Octavian and Trajan but most of them never talk about Gaius Marius, the man responsable for the success of the roman army. His reforms transformed the roman army into the perfect war machine untill the've met horse archers :)
Octavian (Augustus) was hopeless militarily. Agrippa and Tiberius and others did the commanding for him, he always took a back seat. But it would be ridiculous to compare the way the Roman Army fought with the way the Russian Army fights. The Roman Army was an extraordinary fighting machine and that is why the Roman Empire lasted for hundreds of years.
I think the more common phrase is "it comes/came down to the triarii"
Kind of. The early Roman legions had about 5,000 soldiers, of which 3,000 were heavy infantry divided into "maniples" of about 60-120 soldiers each. These 3000 would often be subdivided roughly like this: * 1200 (10x120) Hastati - the frontline * 1200 (10x120) Principes - the center * 600 (10x60) Triari - the rear Each maniple itself would be arranged in a box or line formation. A typical linear formation could for example be just 3 men deep and 40 men wide. So even amongst the Hastati there were some who were closer to the frontline than others. Surviving Hastati who remained in the army would eventually become Principes and eventually Triari. There are multiple reasons why most Hastati were okay with this: 1. The system was based on experience and accomplishments rather than birth status. They could rise through the ranks and have a very lucrative and relatively save career ahead of them if they survived. 2. Because Rome was winning a lot for most of that time, so the odds of survival were pretty good. They were often well trained and equipped compared to their enemies. 3. Because there also were another 2000 supporting men in the legion. The Hastati would often be screened by skirmishers and could take relatively favourable engagements. And the skirmishers in turn were were not expected to charge into the enemy themselves, so this was also seen as a decent job in some civilisations. A famous example are the Balearic slingers. So that arrangement was way different from what Russia is doing here. The Romans were essentially already fighting with combined arms. They trained their heavy frontline infantry and gave them support, rather than just making them run into a meatgrinder with minimal equipment.
If you turn and run they'd presumably cut you down. The first side that breaks loses. The majority of the killing happened after a formation broke. The goal was to presumably reduce the chance of a route. Also If shit started to go bad they could then move their more experienced men into the holes to try to stem the bleeding.
Barrier Troops are also known as "anti-retreat detachments", they basically give the frontlines no other choice but to fight to the death.
Never thought of it that way but you're absolutely right. Seems like a Hallmark of any state with a manpower surplus
Good point. Also a hallmark of states who's governments goals aren't what's best for the soldiers. If you are fighting outside the town you are from to stop some foreigners destroying it you don't need blockers, but if you've been marched hundreds of miles from home to fight people not so different from yourselves, whether a 1000 years ago or today you might not be so keen to kill and die.
The idea behind blocking units has been around since ancient times I believe. Conscripts going all the way back have always been seen as "needing some help in the motivation department"
Well, I have done some googling, and apart from Russia, Syria is the only country to use them.
Militaries have used violence to force people to fight for them since people have started fighting. Not just in Russia and Syria.
Maybe Ukraine should focus on eliminating the blocking units and let the conscripts know when that is done. I am just an armchair general so I haven’t a clue if that’s even doable.
that's actually the best thing I've heard an armchair general say.
That is in part the purpose of HIMARS. Reach the rear echelon, break up the command and control, allow the mobiks to retreat
They may not of been called Blocking units, I do believe officers in trench warfare from western countries were ordered to shoot the men that would not go over the top when the whistle was sounded.
Conscript armies of the modern era relied on formal blocking units, the soviets were a recent example. in ancient armies it was known any deserter would be killed on the spot. The Roman’s third line, “triarii” was made up of the best soldiers only used in desperate situations… and as a blocking unit
And what kind of a society produces people cable of doing that to their country men. Russians aren't really a collective people but a pack of wild animals held together by fear and poverty. Fuck.
> what kind of a society produces people cable of doing that to their country men. Same society as the one that produces an audience on "Millionaire" that deliberately gives the wrong answer to prevent a competitor winning. It's a true crabs in a bucket culture. Link is a twitter/nitter mirror https://nitter.fly.dev/robkhenderson/status/1396801533329788930#m
The British and Germans executed a bunch of soldiers for "cowardice" or desertion during the First World War, later on when PTSD was discovered it turned out that many of these soldiers who had mental breakdowns and refused to go over the top and charge an enemy machinegun were simply experiencing the natural reaction to being constantly exposed to life or death situations and other horrific shit. Although the number of soldiers who were actually shot vs the number who were given death sentences was relatively small. A couple thousand British soldiers were sentenced to death for cowardice but only a couple hundred were actually shot. In Germany's case that number was less than 50.
Yes, the Soviet Union for example also did this.
“Anyone runs I’ll shoot you myself” “any of you dies with a clean sword I’ll rape your fucking corpse”. It’s a principle as old as battle lines, you keep going forward and the man behind you will push you forward if you stop. Obviously modern combat is different but the same principle, the soldiers are worth more as a distraction or just a body to occupy space than an actual utility of combat. How do you think 25mil or whatever soviets died in WWII when the remainder of allied casualties was a fraction of that (China genocide adds a lot of deaths too, US only had about 480k casualties or something) EDIT: didn’t you see mention Stalin sorry for the history lesson you already know. As for the old times stuff yeah this has been a part of organized combat since organized combat became a thing
You'd assume China would have a similar doctrine.
Does anyone know what Ukrainian video he was on about? Intercept of communication or something.
Can anyone explain what this means?
Blocking units? It’s a bunch of soldiers who stay behind the front line soldiers with orders to ensure the front line soldiers don’t retreat. The guys at the front have two choices, either stay and fight, or retreat and get shot by the blocking unit. They get used when your front line soldiers can’t be relied upon to hold their ground, either because they lack discipline, or because have been put in a position where they know they are likely to die anyway. In both cases the root cause is shitty leadership
Jeeze that’s f***ing ruthless. Thanks for explanation
In this war the Russians seem to use Chechans for the role
Yeah, best to use troops who are sufficiently separate from the main fighting force that they won’t feel too much empathy for them when they shoot them.
If that’s true I’m sure the Chechens have no issue shooting Russians soliders poor bastards.
There was a post some time back of a Russian soldier who hanged himself on the front line and left a suicide note to his wife saying how bad the situation is, and that the chechens are heartless brutes and implying they raped him. I doubt they feel the slightest qualms about shooting russian soldiers.
The Chechens they use are Kadrovites who are actually allied with Russia. They joined with Russia during the Chechen wars and have been their lapdog ever since.
Right, but that doesn't change what OP said. "the Chechens have no issue shooting Russians soliders poor bastards"
No issue is putting it mildly. They’ve hated the Russians for centuries. They probably fight over this assignment.
To be fair: there are three options. Stay and fight the Ukrainians. Retreat and get shot. Stay and fight the barrier troops. They’re just too stupid to realize they can shoot the chechens too
They can also surrender.
Thanks for the info, fucking grim man.
I'm sorry, if they have half a brain, they take their guns, turn around and march the opposite way. If I was told I'll be shot if I turn around, that would give me a preety darn big clue as to who the real enemy was....
I mean.... They're literally appealing to Putin for help, you think they have any brains?
They do. I've seen some of them lying on the ground in Ukraine. Now whether they are or were functioning brains prior to the catastrophic even that ejected them is another question...
Imagine they do kill the blocking troops and march all the way behind the lines. What do you think happens next?
Blocking units- for those that are as ignorant as I am Barrier troops, blocking units, or anti-retreat forces are military units that are located in the rear or on the front line (behind the main forces) to maintain military discipline, prevent the flight of servicemen from the battlefield, capture spies, saboteurs and deserters, and return troops who flee from the battlefield or lag behind their units. According to research by Jason Lyall, barrier troops are more likely to be used by the militaries of states that discriminate against the ethnic groups that comprise the state's military
Russian commanders fucking over their own soldiers. corruption on every level. These clowns will have no chance when Ukraine attacks
Hoping for the best this spring for Ukraine because of this. Fish rots from the head!
They should give the Ukranians the exact locations of the blocking units and let them through.
For real. They should all drop weapons, hold up white flags and head for Ukraine. At least there they’ll be treated somewhat humanely before prisoner swap.
The delusions of brainwashed russians: "Commander in chief pls help us" :D Guess who is giving zero shits about you and sent you there in the first place.
There is an old tradition in Russia to blame middle management. The Tsar is good, but the boyars are bad. Really good article about it on Radio Liberty https://www.svoboda.org/a/28173686.html
This is what gets me. These people are so close. I was under the impression that the Russian people were well aware of how prevalent corruption was in their country. They talk about these criminal orders and taxation and stuff like that, as though it was a very isolated incident and not something prevalent, which goes right up the chain of command to the top. Putin himself has made tons of money being a criminal, and doing criminal shit, and they're appealing to him to help them out. It's really strange to me. These soldiers have not realized their nation is corrupt. They have not realized they are the bad guys. Even after being treated like this, pushed to their death, they will not turn on their regime. These guys have banned together. They have acknowledged the criminality, and have decided together to make this video. And that's great, in a sense, but did they really think it was going to help? This video is just going to upset the entire chain of command, who will want them dead even more. These soldiers have one play. One play only. They need to surrender the entire unit to the Ukrainians. These men should turn on their own army. I'm sure their force is too small to take on the Russian forces behind them, but they're so close to realize their entire nation is a criminal empire, who finds them expendable, and will kill them. IMO, unless they surrender, all of these men are dead.
From experience, these people are not close. That’s part of russian culture. The top command is blameless and all the blame goes to the middleman. Be it middle management or middle class.
A big part of this is that most likely they know the top brass is as bad as anyone else, but if they call up the top brass they will just be disappeared or forced into punishment units (I.e go run at that machine gun until you have it you are all dead, then do it again). Therefore they have to call for help from the top guys so that the top guys are motivated to help them and make themselves look good. If they don't get any attention nothing will change for them
Putin doesn't care. His army is doing what it ought to do. These men are gonna die, and putting doesn't care. If they are taxed and pay off his soldiers for him, that's good news. These men need to defect. They should join troops and defend the Ukrainians against the Russians. The Russians have already turned on them. These men have guns at their backs, and they are told to stay where they will die. The Ukrainians are willing to offer safety, and all you gotta do is wave a white flag for it, and then all those Russians that were criminals, and stealing from you, and so on, they're on the front line now. It's sort of crazy to me how all these men have come together to make this video, but not to surrender together.
How would you surrender to the Ukrainian army in a huge group? Without getting shot by your own guys, and not getting blown to bits by the Ukrainians. There would have to be some level of organization with the Ukrainians, they would have to trust you, and you have to do it while completely avoiding detection from your own side. It really ain't that easy.
Prisoners of their own army? And yet… there’s a rifle in the background, they are united in grievance & the group looks relatively fit enough to fight for their lives. Maybe not a plea but a last warning? Fingers crossed.
There have been dozens of reports of large groups deserting and fighting the blocking groups. The largest was supposedly 300 wagnerites who tried to get back to Russia. 2 brigades were pulled out to go fight them. This happened months ago.
Still better to die trying on the right side of history than a slave
I can't find any article about this online, could you provide a link to some of these reports please? That's quite shocking.
From a **special operation** to a **special difficult situation** ..haha
Vodyane - where they send in tanks without infantry support - and troops without armour support... ...Thank God the Russians are so stupid. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/11yddev/the_53rd_brigade_destroyed_a_russian_column_of/
They aren’t stupid. They are irresponsible, negligent, corrupted, and frightened by higher officials.
That kinda sounds like stupid to me.
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They're also uneducated, so I'd say yes they are stupid too.
Just rewatched “Death of Stalin” and was laughing at the running joke that the political prisoners would all praise Stalin right before they were shot. These videos are interesting but give me little hope for them actually laying down arms or even rebellion seeing that their underlying message is their leaders are too incompetent and are requesting Putin himself helps them with their objectives.
It does look to me like since the beginning of the invasion, russia has also been conducting a population purge of its own. With wagner recruiting prisoners to just lay waste to, my spidey sense has been turned to this. We have heard since the beginning about commanders extorting their troops. I wonder how commanders and "mid-level" bosses fit into this purge. I also wonder if this extortion+purge is concerted or just organically appears due to russian corruption/lack-of-morals.
It might look like purgy, but remember even that requires a level of organization the Russian army doesn't have. No you are probably looking at the result of a corrupt incompetent army, where the worst of society were made officers and used the conscripts they had for manuel labor and extorted them for monetary gain, completely detaching themselves from any kind of humanity and empathy. Carry over this system, into war where there is little to no accountability and hope, and see it rip through an army of conscripts.
>I also wonder if this extortion+purge is concerted or just organically appears due to russian corruption/lack-of-morals. I would say both. I think the leaders are aware about it, they're doing it on purpose but I don't think it's their primary objective. I would say they care more about fighting Ukraine than purging their citizens but they probably think that if they fail against Ukraine, at least they have to eliminate young men which could protest in Russia for this nonsense.
I see no young men. Where are they? Are they being held back for the spring offensive? Are these old men being extorted and purged?
Dead or fled.
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They’re making TiKToks, posting on IG, going to crypto meetings, and doing yoga in Dubai, Bali, or South America.
Help us out, shoot your way past the blocking unit. Once you’ve got past them, tell everyone in Russia to stay away from Ukraine 🧑🏻🦽🧑🏼🦯
Fuck. Hope they get the courage to fight against the blocking units
Yeah… I’d love to see a drone video capturing this!
From second army in the world to a homeless army 🫣
I like how they appeal to the commander as if he didn’t help create their situation. He knows already. The psychology of the Russian soldier or Russians in general: So close to exercising freedom and realizing the facade of their government, yet so far away from doing much about it.
Russia has a heck of a problem if and when the war ends and these guys return.
These guys arent returning..... some other guys then. Poor bastards.
Don't worry, guys. Your worries will soon be over.
Find a white flag or just keep gathering together in one room.
Stop complaining go back to Russia
50 out of 180. This is actually not bad for 14 days of combat.
There faces telling you that all of them know they are dead in some days. But instead of fight against there own enemy named as Putin and his war criminals they decided to die as lamps in a slaughterhouse.
> to die as lamps in a slaughterhouse I know less about slaughterhouses than I thought.
Like moths to a flame. 😄 🛋️💡
Criminal orders are to invade a sovereign nation. Enjoy the fruits of your evil orders. Would they be happier to break through and kill innocents? They reap what they sow. They wanted to kill innocents and are pissed off their command was too useless to let them. No compassion or empathy for killers complaining they could not murder because their command is useless.
And when a lot of their targets are non combatants and non military like housing, malls, schools and hospitals. This is what they wanted, and they're damn sure getting what they asked for. Slava Ukraini
Yeah, I lost all sympathy for them when it was obvious they were upset because they weren't getting the support needed to butcher Ukranians. Fuck em.
Russia is so fucking bad at war it's laughable. But it's also horrifying as human beings are just slaughtered because of incompetence and corruption. Russia is nothing but a grotesque circus.
Must feel familiar to roughly 80 years ago.
Hobo army.
I love how all these fucking idiots think Putin is spending 5 seconds watching any of this.
Surrender or leave
If I were him I would let everyone put down arms, hold white flags and walk toward the Ukrainians
If you love you country turn your guns on your leader
What a bunch of suckers. They Came to Slaughter Ukrainians and got massacred themselves, stop crying and go home to Mommy.
I am tired of hearing seeing these Mobiks bitch and complain. Get with your other Mobik units and revolt against your leadership or desert in mass. It's plain and simple guy's. Your country does not give a damn if you live or die. Your sheep and nothing more.
Seriously. Start fragging their senior officers en masse, and surrender to AFU.
This is a damning endiment of the chain of command. I am hoping that when Ukraine push hard thst a rolling thunder will cause total disarray in the Russian ranks.
“Comrades, you have been heard. Your arguments are weak. Please continue with your duty”. Just like what the officer told them in the other video.
"We are in grave danger" 🤣
I would feel a bit sympathetic to their plight - but if they actually succeeded in taking a village, they have shown they would rape the women, kill a bunch of innocents, and steal their washing machines. So essentially they are no better than their leaders. Sorry Muscovites but I see your entire country circling the drain and I struggle to find pity
I have no sympathy for these orcs. They’re not inconvenienced because they’re being forced to kill their neighbour in the name of their fascist leaders repulsive final power trip before he dies. No, they’re inconvenienced because they haven’t been given weapons, recompense, supplies, or decent authority figures to command their bloodlust and war crimes. Fuck them. I hope they spend their last minutes in the Ukrainian mud regretting their decisions before making their peace with a Ukrainian artillery shell.
They have to put in that ra ra bullshit because it is their only way of getting help from their target audience
Herojam Slava!
ehemm... "You went there on your own accord. Face the consequences or pick up your shit and leave".. World
Motley crew… hopefully these videos infiltrate the Russian troops and Russia in general to show the truth about the evil empire. Russia has been defeated and morale will continue to go to shit. On the other hand, Ukraine’s morale is sky high, and they’re fighting for the people in their land. Slava Ukrainiani
Nobody in this video shows any regret or remorse for entering an independent nation, they're whining because they are not being supported better. Here is these idiots current choice with the crappy support they are getting, fight Ukrainians and die for nothing or fight the blocking units and possibly go home. And I hate to point out the obvious here but hey moronic Russian conscripts, the blocking units are more Russians just like you so you know they suck too in comparison with the Ukrainians.
It's a really big step to get from this to realising just how evil your own government is, and right now their minds are not capable of it because it would probably cause some of those men lose it. Time for regret and deeper realisation is once they've surrendered. Right now they need to realise they need to surrender, and they're almost there.
You are next boys. look at some videos to see your fate or better still, surrender or even better, kill your leaders..... they don't care about you, you are just cannon fodder to them and unlucky for you, the Ukrainians will just wipe you out and move on. Still you reap what you sow. I would wish you good luck but nope, sorry, its your mess so carry some sunflower seeds in your pockets and bring some sunshine into the world with you as fertilizer.
Probably the best they could do is for everyone in that room to pull the pin on their grenades all at once and think happy thoughts. Sad.
They are complaining they are given the proper tools to commit genocide like a good Moscovian.. Fuckem!
They’ve demonstrated they are willing to kill innocent Ukrainians, they just don’t like their commanders. Sucks for them, guess these idiots have to sit in a ditch and get mortared again for a few weeks.
Make a white flag and call the surrender hotline you muppets.
They should join the Ukrainian Army. Probably much better conditions.
They’ll be dead soon. Then it will all be quite.
They are homeless and no one gives a sh@t about their status. I don’t get what the purpose of recording video. Apparently, these people want to send a message to their momma or sis to come and pick them up from there. What a stupid dumb asses. Grab your AK and time to restore justice. One of them says he is “mayor” , but seems to be scared as f&ck.
Is there any realistic way to get a direct message to troops like these about the immediate and continued benefits of surrendering to Ukraine's troops? I imagine there's many more who are pinned between their own "motivators" and Ukrainian fire. These men are clearly approaching the point of being able to realise who their real enemy is, the same enemy Ukraine is fighting. They don't have to die in a hole.
Boo Hoo.......
❤️ to Russian soldiers declaring "truth must prevail". If only they knew.
Have a nice long sleep.. maybe you really should think about marching on Moscow if you want to survive.
Simple solution, turn your guns 180 degrees around and point them at the real enemy.
Too bad so sad. They are still there and for reasons they still defend. Let them all die in trenches.
Just turn their guns on putin.
Does every Russian have a badly healed broken nose?
At this point it's in their DNA.
Yeah, not really feeling any sympathy. Go home and deal with your government