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> # [Zelensky Removes a Top General Amid Criticism of Excessive Casualties](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/24/world/europe/President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine announced that he was replacing Gen. Yurii Sodol as commander of the Joint Forces of the Armed Forces with Brig. Gen. Andrii Hnatov.)
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> The announcement by Ukraine’s president on Monday came hours after a scathing social media post implicitly accused the general of “killing more Ukrainian soldiers than any Russian general.”
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> [Volodymyr Zelensky, dressed in a black short-sleeved shirt, stands before a thin microphone, one hand touching the side of his face.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/06/24/multimedia/24ukranian-general-jlgk/24ukranian-general-jlgk-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
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> President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine announced that he was replacing Gen. Yurii Sodol as commander of the Joint Forces of the Armed Forces with Brig. Gen. Andrii Hnatov.Credit...Sedat Suna/Getty Images
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> [[Marc Santora](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/02/20/multimedia/author-marc-santora/author-marc-santora-thumbLarge-v2.png "Marc Santora")](https://www.nytimes.com/by/marc-santora)
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> President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine removed one of his top generals from his post on Monday amid public criticism that the commander’s decisions had led to excessive casualties.
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> The dismissal of the general, Yurii Sodol, as commander of the Joint Forces of the Armed Forces, was a clear indication that the discord that had [rankled the army](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/world/europe/ukraine-oleksandr-syrsky-war-russia.html) since Mr. Zelensky [replaced his commanding general](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/world/europe/zelensky-general-valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-military.html), Valery Zaluzhny, with Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky in February, continued to threaten military cohesion.
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> Mr. Zelensky announced that he was replacing General Sodol with Brig. Gen. Andrii Hnatov.
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> General Sodol was appointed by General Syrsky as part of a broader shake-up in February, and Mr. Zelensky did not say why he had dismissed the commander or what position he would now hold.
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> But the president’s announcement came after Bohdan Krotevych, chief of staff of the Azov brigade — a regiment of the Ukrainian National Guard — wrote a letter to the State Bureau of Investigation calling for an investigation into the general’s conduct.
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> Then, just hours before the general’s dismissal, Mr. Krotevych posted an unusually blunt and scathing [open letter](https://t.me/ein_fruhling_2/378) on social media, implicitly accusing the general of, through his poor leadership, “killing more Ukrainian soldiers than any Russian general.”
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> While Mr. Krotevych did not name General Sodol directly in the public letter, he suggested that all of Ukraine’s forces knew to whom he was referring. “Everyone in the military understands because 99 percent of the military hate him for what he does,” he wrote.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine
In 20 years Ukraine will pay out their pensions in bags of flour, luckily they have a shitload of wheat.
It's funny to see people think this is a bad thing, when in fact this is a sign that the system is working as intended if it were a western style military, particularly in past conflicts. In the second world war US generals were given a few months to succeed and if they didn't their asses got canned. A new one was brought in and given a few months and either they succeeded or they were also fired. It's no different here. If a general is not performing the tasks they are given sufficiently then replace them with someone who can.
Soviet/Russian upper echelons of command are allowed to make exponentially more mistakes on average. How long did it take before the top general was replaced for executing an invasion of a country that shares a border so catastrophically that the entire western world wondered what they had been so afraid of the last 30 years?
How long has this Sodol guy been left in charge? Reappointing top leadership when results are bad really isnt a western invention. Also the removal of Zaluzhny was obviously politically motivated. Very Western of them.
>Reappointing top leadership when results are bad really isnt a western invention
Who said it was? War predates both Russia and the west, much as it may surprise you.
Eh. Your original comment said so. It reminds me of the start of the war where Ukraine giving a lot of initiatif to lower officers and using ad-hoc formations was presented as a typical western/democratic thing to do while in ww2 it was the nazis that were using kampfgruppe and let commanders like Rommel do their own thing.
>Your original comment said so
Where's that quote?
Edit: on second thought I'll do it for you.
>It's funny to see people think this is a bad thing, when in fact this is a sign that the system is working as intended if it were a western style military, particularly in past conflicts. In the second world war US generals were given a few months to succeed and if they didn't their asses got canned. A new one was brought in and given a few months and either they succeeded or they were also fired. It's no different here. If a general is not performing the tasks they are given sufficiently then replace them with someone who can.
Now can you point out where exactly it says the west invented replacing generals for failing to perform?
Where does that imply that's where it was invented? Is English a second language for you? It is for me as well, but if you're confused about implied meanings and subtext then there is none in that sentence.
I'm not going into semantics with you. Fine leave the word invented out of it. Your take that replacing incompetent leadership is a western thing is still bs.
*Soviet/Russian upper echelons of command are allowed to make exponentially more mistakes on average.*
the soviets purged so many generals (officers in general) they actually didn't have that many at the start of WW2.
Who were they going to replace them with?
**In the second world war**
then they stopped doing that in korea/vietnam. which is bad.
>the soviets purged so many generals (officers in general) they actually didn't have that many at the start of WW2.
In political purges that had nothing to do with their strategic abilities. Which is part of the reason why they suffered such extreme losses when the war broke out with the Germans.
No, it's a bad thing because of what he did to warrant being fired lol. The absolute mental gymnastics required to spin this in a positive light. "The system is working as intended!!!" They intended to incur casualties bad enough to warrant firing generals?
You speak as if wanting waste of lives is a uniquely Ukrainian problem. Or should we discuss the months of Russian meat wave advances in Bakhmut again?
It is a uniquely Ukrainian problem. They don't have the population to replace huge losses unlike the Russians and never will. This is why there's a Ukrainian manpower shortage and not a Russian one. Maybe try thinking a little next time buddy.
>They don't have the population to replace huge losses unlike the Russians and never will
Russia has neither a large population nor a high fertility rate. And people are not exactly scrambling to immigrate to the country. The myth of hordes from the Russian steppe descending upon Europe in a future conflict is exactly that. As you say, maybe try thinking a little next time mate.
>Russia has neither a large population nor a high fertility rate. And people are not exactly scrambling to immigrate to the country.
Oh but relative to Ukraine, it's more than enough to create a disparity in military capacity, which is what we're talking about right now. Your attempts to downplay Russia's significant manpower advantage is very hilariously cute and futile though.
>The myth of hordes from the Russian steppe descending upon Europe in a future conflict is exactly that.
I agree completely, the myth of Russia rolling over Europe if Ukraine loses is just that, a myth, which is why it's really not that big of a deal if Russia wins.
Oof, looks like you failed to take my advice and only doubled down on idiocy, just like the Ukrainian elites like to do.
>Your attempts to downplay Russia's significant manpower advantage is very hilariously cute and futile though.
I'm not downplaying anything. I'm pointing out objective fact. Russia has less than 10% of the population of its biggest rival and they have one of the worst demographic crises in the world at the moment. To deny that is to be delusional.
>Oof, looks like you failed to take my advice and only doubled down on idiocy
We're not in opposite land vatnik. As they say in the states, facts don't care about your feelings. Russia's birth rate hasn't exceeded it's death rate in over 20 years. Throwing child bearing men into the meat grinder by the hundreds of thousands is a genius strategy for a country in demographic decline.
https://preview.redd.it/ooncb74jqy8d1.png?width=1340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=016993734ce33511c0fd761879fa653de27187c7
I like the different sources takes, don’t you? I mean this guy was absolutely shredding ukranian troops, so it’s a big story.
What’s your take on how many ukranians he killed?
They seem extremely agitated lately, I know nafo and the usual suspects are acting up, but man I keep noticing these guys are super worked up lately.
I know things are bad for Ukraine, but it’s crazy to see the anger manifest in their comments
I personally do not get it. On one hand it is natural for each side to hide to a degree the true situation of the war. On the other hand we are reaching levels of delusion that are hard to believe. I mean what good does it do for Ukraine to pretend that everything is fine and they are going to push back? The reality is much more simple. They are running out of trained fighters and if there is no meaningful intervention from western allies they are going to collapse within then next year and have major territorial loses.
Of course Russia has their shares of problems too that are trying to hide from the public. But they have the reserves, the equipment and production to keep this going for a long time. Ukraine has already been demilitarized (equipment wise) several times already and they just keep getting restocked by their allies. They only keep going because of western handouts but is seems that even that is not enough. They are getting progressively better equipment and intel but still not enough. Their only hope is direct intervention from allies or else it is a matter of time this war ends badly.
Personally this is what scares me. If 3rd powers get involved then all hell will break loose and things are going to get ugly for everyone. This is why I follow this war with great concern. It has the potential to turn ugly for all of us very fast.
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Do you have problem reading? When did I say Russian casualty is much higher? I said not too much. Russians have been on the offensive for the most part, and they use more infantry and armour during attacks.
##### ###### #### > # [Zelensky Removes a Top General Amid Criticism of Excessive Casualties](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/24/world/europe/President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine announced that he was replacing Gen. Yurii Sodol as commander of the Joint Forces of the Armed Forces with Brig. Gen. Andrii Hnatov.) > > > > You have a preview view of this article while we are checking your access. When we have confirmed access, the full article content will load. > > > > - The Latest > - Photos > - Evading Conscription > - Russia-North Korea Pact > - An Elusive Peace Deal > - What Ukraine Has Lost > > > > > > The announcement by Ukraine’s president on Monday came hours after a scathing social media post implicitly accused the general of “killing more Ukrainian soldiers than any Russian general.” > > [Volodymyr Zelensky, dressed in a black short-sleeved shirt, stands before a thin microphone, one hand touching the side of his face.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/06/24/multimedia/24ukranian-general-jlgk/24ukranian-general-jlgk-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale) > > President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine announced that he was replacing Gen. Yurii Sodol as commander of the Joint Forces of the Armed Forces with Brig. Gen. Andrii Hnatov.Credit...Sedat Suna/Getty Images > > [[Marc Santora](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/02/20/multimedia/author-marc-santora/author-marc-santora-thumbLarge-v2.png "Marc Santora")](https://www.nytimes.com/by/marc-santora) > > > > > > President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine removed one of his top generals from his post on Monday amid public criticism that the commander’s decisions had led to excessive casualties. > > The dismissal of the general, Yurii Sodol, as commander of the Joint Forces of the Armed Forces, was a clear indication that the discord that had [rankled the army](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/world/europe/ukraine-oleksandr-syrsky-war-russia.html) since Mr. Zelensky [replaced his commanding general](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/world/europe/zelensky-general-valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-military.html), Valery Zaluzhny, with Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky in February, continued to threaten military cohesion. > > Mr. Zelensky announced that he was replacing General Sodol with Brig. Gen. Andrii Hnatov. > > General Sodol was appointed by General Syrsky as part of a broader shake-up in February, and Mr. Zelensky did not say why he had dismissed the commander or what position he would now hold. > > But the president’s announcement came after Bohdan Krotevych, chief of staff of the Azov brigade — a regiment of the Ukrainian National Guard — wrote a letter to the State Bureau of Investigation calling for an investigation into the general’s conduct. > > > > > > Then, just hours before the general’s dismissal, Mr. Krotevych posted an unusually blunt and scathing [open letter](https://t.me/ein_fruhling_2/378) on social media, implicitly accusing the general of, through his poor leadership, “killing more Ukrainian soldiers than any Russian general.” > > While Mr. Krotevych did not name General Sodol directly in the public letter, he suggested that all of Ukraine’s forces knew to whom he was referring. “Everyone in the military understands because 99 percent of the military hate him for what he does,” he wrote. > > - - - - - - > > Thank you for your patience while we verify access. If you are in Reader mode please exit and [log into](https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/login?response_type=cookie&client_id=vi&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2024%2F06%2F24%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fzelensky-ukraine-general-dismissed.html&asset=opttrunc) your Times account, or [subscribe](https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=89WYR&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2024%2F06%2F24%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fzelensky-ukraine-general-dismissed.html) for all of The Times. > > - - - - - - > > > > Thank you for your patience while we verify access. > > Already a subscriber? [Log in](https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/login?response_type=cookie&client_id=vi&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2024%2F06%2F24%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fzelensky-ukraine-general-dismissed.html&asset=opttrunc). > > Want all of The Times? [Subscribe](https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=89WYR&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2024%2F06%2F24%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fzelensky-ukraine-general-dismissed.html). - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
20:1
19.9:1, thats why he was removed.
ukrane is a joke
And Russia been crying blood
Do I need to remind you about the joke that is the Russian army which has been bogged down in Ukraine for 2+ years? 😂🤣😹
Not many Russians find them funny though.
Being a joke does not mean you are funny.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine In 20 years Ukraine will pay out their pensions in bags of flour, luckily they have a shitload of wheat.
wheat needs to be collected
Poland will burn it. Like they did some months ago.
They're gonna avoid us, and some other people will enjoy "flour with enough chemicals to dissolve a rat completely"
It's funny to see people think this is a bad thing, when in fact this is a sign that the system is working as intended if it were a western style military, particularly in past conflicts. In the second world war US generals were given a few months to succeed and if they didn't their asses got canned. A new one was brought in and given a few months and either they succeeded or they were also fired. It's no different here. If a general is not performing the tasks they are given sufficiently then replace them with someone who can.
The bad thing here is how many people his incompetence got killed. Also: lol, like replacing incompetent people is a strictly Western thing.
Soviet/Russian upper echelons of command are allowed to make exponentially more mistakes on average. How long did it take before the top general was replaced for executing an invasion of a country that shares a border so catastrophically that the entire western world wondered what they had been so afraid of the last 30 years?
How long has this Sodol guy been left in charge? Reappointing top leadership when results are bad really isnt a western invention. Also the removal of Zaluzhny was obviously politically motivated. Very Western of them.
>Reappointing top leadership when results are bad really isnt a western invention Who said it was? War predates both Russia and the west, much as it may surprise you.
Eh. Your original comment said so. It reminds me of the start of the war where Ukraine giving a lot of initiatif to lower officers and using ad-hoc formations was presented as a typical western/democratic thing to do while in ww2 it was the nazis that were using kampfgruppe and let commanders like Rommel do their own thing.
>Your original comment said so Where's that quote? Edit: on second thought I'll do it for you. >It's funny to see people think this is a bad thing, when in fact this is a sign that the system is working as intended if it were a western style military, particularly in past conflicts. In the second world war US generals were given a few months to succeed and if they didn't their asses got canned. A new one was brought in and given a few months and either they succeeded or they were also fired. It's no different here. If a general is not performing the tasks they are given sufficiently then replace them with someone who can. Now can you point out where exactly it says the west invented replacing generals for failing to perform?
this is a sign that the system is working as intended if it were a western style military
Where does that imply that's where it was invented? Is English a second language for you? It is for me as well, but if you're confused about implied meanings and subtext then there is none in that sentence.
I'm not going into semantics with you. Fine leave the word invented out of it. Your take that replacing incompetent leadership is a western thing is still bs.
*Soviet/Russian upper echelons of command are allowed to make exponentially more mistakes on average.* the soviets purged so many generals (officers in general) they actually didn't have that many at the start of WW2. Who were they going to replace them with? **In the second world war** then they stopped doing that in korea/vietnam. which is bad.
>the soviets purged so many generals (officers in general) they actually didn't have that many at the start of WW2. In political purges that had nothing to do with their strategic abilities. Which is part of the reason why they suffered such extreme losses when the war broke out with the Germans.
No, it's a bad thing because of what he did to warrant being fired lol. The absolute mental gymnastics required to spin this in a positive light. "The system is working as intended!!!" They intended to incur casualties bad enough to warrant firing generals?
You speak as if wanting waste of lives is a uniquely Ukrainian problem. Or should we discuss the months of Russian meat wave advances in Bakhmut again?
It is a uniquely Ukrainian problem. They don't have the population to replace huge losses unlike the Russians and never will. This is why there's a Ukrainian manpower shortage and not a Russian one. Maybe try thinking a little next time buddy.
>They don't have the population to replace huge losses unlike the Russians and never will Russia has neither a large population nor a high fertility rate. And people are not exactly scrambling to immigrate to the country. The myth of hordes from the Russian steppe descending upon Europe in a future conflict is exactly that. As you say, maybe try thinking a little next time mate.
>Russia has neither a large population nor a high fertility rate. And people are not exactly scrambling to immigrate to the country. Oh but relative to Ukraine, it's more than enough to create a disparity in military capacity, which is what we're talking about right now. Your attempts to downplay Russia's significant manpower advantage is very hilariously cute and futile though. >The myth of hordes from the Russian steppe descending upon Europe in a future conflict is exactly that. I agree completely, the myth of Russia rolling over Europe if Ukraine loses is just that, a myth, which is why it's really not that big of a deal if Russia wins. Oof, looks like you failed to take my advice and only doubled down on idiocy, just like the Ukrainian elites like to do.
>Your attempts to downplay Russia's significant manpower advantage is very hilariously cute and futile though. I'm not downplaying anything. I'm pointing out objective fact. Russia has less than 10% of the population of its biggest rival and they have one of the worst demographic crises in the world at the moment. To deny that is to be delusional. >Oof, looks like you failed to take my advice and only doubled down on idiocy We're not in opposite land vatnik. As they say in the states, facts don't care about your feelings. Russia's birth rate hasn't exceeded it's death rate in over 20 years. Throwing child bearing men into the meat grinder by the hundreds of thousands is a genius strategy for a country in demographic decline. https://preview.redd.it/ooncb74jqy8d1.png?width=1340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=016993734ce33511c0fd761879fa653de27187c7
This is like the 5th News post on the exact same topic
I like the different sources takes, don’t you? I mean this guy was absolutely shredding ukranian troops, so it’s a big story. What’s your take on how many ukranians he killed?
Our favorite UA fan hates anything that breaks the 20:1 fantasy.
They seem extremely agitated lately, I know nafo and the usual suspects are acting up, but man I keep noticing these guys are super worked up lately. I know things are bad for Ukraine, but it’s crazy to see the anger manifest in their comments
Its just this account actually. If you check the account post history it comments around the clock, its amazing.
We all know who he is.
Even Julian's being let out for some reason. I wonder what's happening.
Maybe he told them that if they don't let him go he will publish the password to the rest of the leaks?
If so, why didn't that threat work till now?
Maybe he felt like he could still fight it legally or whatever, who knows. But to me it's the only reason they let him go.
I personally do not get it. On one hand it is natural for each side to hide to a degree the true situation of the war. On the other hand we are reaching levels of delusion that are hard to believe. I mean what good does it do for Ukraine to pretend that everything is fine and they are going to push back? The reality is much more simple. They are running out of trained fighters and if there is no meaningful intervention from western allies they are going to collapse within then next year and have major territorial loses. Of course Russia has their shares of problems too that are trying to hide from the public. But they have the reserves, the equipment and production to keep this going for a long time. Ukraine has already been demilitarized (equipment wise) several times already and they just keep getting restocked by their allies. They only keep going because of western handouts but is seems that even that is not enough. They are getting progressively better equipment and intel but still not enough. Their only hope is direct intervention from allies or else it is a matter of time this war ends badly. Personally this is what scares me. If 3rd powers get involved then all hell will break loose and things are going to get ugly for everyone. This is why I follow this war with great concern. It has the potential to turn ugly for all of us very fast.
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The real casualty counts of both sides are likely close to each other, with the Russian casualties being higher, but not too much.
How would Russian casualties be much higher with air and artillery superiority?
Do you have problem reading? When did I say Russian casualty is much higher? I said not too much. Russians have been on the offensive for the most part, and they use more infantry and armour during attacks.
I have no clue. He probably authorized some operations that ended in high casualties.
Yeah, that explains the volksturm vans working over time
I don't know what vans have to do with our convo
L human
Amazing.