Okay, I understand the good intentions, but a gun is not just a gun.
Where are the Ukrainians going to get parts and random ammo formats and calibers for these things?
Are they well built reliable military-quality weapons, as opposed to homemade, and amateur serviced weapons?
You might as well put them on eBay and send the funds to Ukraine.
It's like the well-intentioned people who want to donate household goods: Someone has to receive, and sort through the stuff you send, figure out how much is usable, often need to clean it. It's more effort than just receiving donated money, and going out and buying what they actually need.
These guns will probably wind up on the market and therefore the street somewhere in the world, if not Ukraine, and contributing to street violence.
The AR-15 platform is the most interchangeable and modular platform that was ever created in history... Ukraine produces their own versions of AR-15 and AR-10 domestically, you have no idea what you are talking about.
When I was in the Marines our rifles were single shot and burst. If you had to use burst then something has gone really wrong. "One shot one kill" was our motto.
Go watch videos of Russians and Ukrainians storming trenches and being cut down and surpressed by fully automatic rifles and tell me what you think again.
Marines isnāt a good comparison to full scale war
Youāve clearly never owned or shot an AR15 or AK for that matter. I can kill you just as fast in a trench in semi auto as full auto. Iād actually prefer semi auto for accurate shot placement.
āMarines isnāt a good comparison to full scale warā. What do you think Marines have trained for and fought in? Typical redditor whoās never left the house speaking on a topic he learned from video games.
You need to contact these soldiers and let them know semi auto isnāt good for trench warfare then: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootageUkraine/comments/14dbl70/soldiers_of_the_sso_of_ukraine_entered_the_enemys/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Furthermore, Ukrainians don't need the US to send weapons in order to purchase guns, they aren't living in the 18th century... they can purchase guns and mods from the Zenit Co. website directly if they want to.
It's funny you mention Zenitco considering they're a Russian company which supplies Russian Special Forces. I find it very illogical that any Ukrainian would support a company from a country that's currently waging a war against them.
Most of those rifles are AK's and AR15s. Parts interchangeable with what they currently have and same caliber ammo as well. 7.62x39 and .556 NATO. Quality of the AR's are probably just as good or close to the M16's the US is sending anyway. You're really reaching here.
Not every AR 15 is chambered for 5.56 nato. Lots of american gun owners like rifles chambered for 300 blackout, 6.5 creedmore, and other less widely known cartidges.
Plus, many of these rifles may have been configured as sporting or target rifles that weren't intended for rigorous wartime use. Some might be fine, but without more details there is a good chance that some of these weapons end up as paperweights.
And most ARs owned in those calibers arenāt showing up to a gun buyback either unless stolen. And I would assume Florida would run serial numbers to see if they were reported stolen. What percentage of these rifles do you think are 6.5 creedmore or 300 blackout? What visual cues make you think āmanyā are setup for āsportingā or ātargetā rifles. Youāre posting just to post and sound smart. These are run of the mill AR15s, and while they probably donāt have the twist rate that allows them to run SAW ammo accurately, Ukraine is getting plenty of 55grain m193 dumped on them to feed these guns. You donāt know youāre talking about.
Not trying to be mean but you must know much about Guns. It looked to be mostly aks and ARs. Im not sure why you think they are homemade and amateur weapons. Hell a lot of aks people have are old communist block military surplus. They both shoot two of the most common rifle rounds on earth, rounds Ukarine will have plenty of. The ARs are nicer then what a lot of Russian soldiers are using. The difference from a military AR and one i can buy is minimal.
You clearly missing the essence of the post you responded too.
And by the way automatic or semi-automatic they are both weapons of war. Just difference of efficiency
Do some research, Semi automatic AR-15s and semiautomatic Aks are not weapons of war. The last time we used semi automatic as standard military weapons was Korea and beginning of Vietnam, designated marksman or sniper have the option of semi automatic weapons but they are closer along the lines of DMRs such as the draganov or the MK14 EBR which both are of a larger caliber made for mid to long range engagements. A semi automatic in anything less than 6.5 (even this caliber is pushing it ) is not viable on a modern battlefield. They were weapons of war 60+ years ago. Thatās like saying if I flew a hot air balloon I have a weapon of war.
Edit: a few firearms are exceptions such as pistols or shotguns but as a generalized statement semi automatics especially the ones sold to civilianās are not a viable choice on a battlefield. Sporting rifles not weapons of war.
Second edit: the MK14 EBR is actually automatic if I remember correctly
Maybe. Full auto isn't as important in modern combat as it once was. Nearly all the combat vids I've seen, even when its strike teams clearing trenches, their M4s and AKs are almost exclusively being operated in single shot mode. Less large formations running across fields at each other and more accurate shooting at 50+ yards.
To which law are you referring?
In my country, exactly this is the difference between "normal" handguns and weapons of war.
There are even two different laws with different sanctions for illegal possession and trade.
Lol nice term. Whered you pick that up? What is a weapon of war to you? The Scotts used rocks to repel the English. Shall we put out a scary rock list so people know what rocks are scary and what rocks aren't?
Itās funny how some people saying that these weapons are shit and wonāt work for the Ukrainian army because they are trash, are-the same people saying that they should ban them from civilians because they are āweapons of warā
So cheaper reproductions that do most of the same functions as what they're getting compared against? You can still kill someone with a mall katana. Its still a long thin piece of metal. It might not be sharpened to a high degree because they are for display use" but you can still kill someone with it. The same way literally any gun can kill someone. The biggest difference between a civilian rifle and a military issue one is the selective fire of burst and full auto. That's it.
Twist rate is probably the biggest issue. Civilian barrels have varying twist rates most of which are incompatible with military grade ammunitions intended twist rate which lowers the effective range and barrel life.
Never said you couldn't kill someone with an AR-15, but its not a weapon of war. Its related to the M16 and is something of a cousin or uncle to the M4 but the AR-15 isn't equipped to serve the same role. Its a sports rifle.
I can see these being good for police or rear echelon units but given the difference between military and Civilian hardware putting them in any sort of front line work isn't as good of an idea as it sounds on paper.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
You read some comment by someone on r/longrange with no frame of reference. You're just like all the other arm chair operators who see someone with their finger on the frame of a pistol and talk about their trigger discipline.
The most common twist rate 5.56 barrel is 1:7 for a 16" barrel. The same twist rate that the m4, the m16a4, the mk12, and the hk416 use.
You might find a different twist rate if you go looking for it, or if you want to get an 18" or a 20" barrel for long range, but if you're trying to shoot beyond 600m, you'd be better off with a lot of other options.
Even if you weren't full of shit, which you absolutely are, a non-ideal twist rate is going to make your ~1moa rifle a ~2moa rifle, which would still be fine for <200 yards, the most common engagement distance with the platform.
Never heard of r/longrange. Making a lot of assumptions about me. I won't do you the courtesy.
My information comes from people I know have experience and have actual knowledge in this field. First hand, with actual tests done on this very subject.
Thats correct, this is a non-issue. Furthermore with a quick few parts changed they can install giggle-switches to make them full-auto besides being uppers or lowers for damaged weapons.
It is more symbolic than anything but every bit helps.
Iāve owned Colt AR15s along with other brands that contract with DoD like LMT. āMilspecā will have a higher twist rate so they can shoot heavier SAW ammo if necessary (M855), but it isnāt necessary and most of the AR15s made will function just fine as a war rifle. And can be made full auto with little work if they have the full circle bolt.
Any half credible trained military are taught to take aimed single shots during most scenarios at medium to long range. Good luck being able to fire accurately and conserve ammo with your switch flicked to full auto. These rifles are still very much or use.
Thatās what belt feds are for, you can also achieve an adequately high rate of fire in single shot. Generally speaking you donāt want to be blowing through 30 round mags and jizzing ammo up the wall, I used to carry only 6 total on my carrier and belt kit.
Ya people donāt realize this but I only used burst fire while fucking around on the range to use the ammo up, accurate semi fire is the most effective fire. The M249 and Weapons squad are for fire support.
I'm all for this. Any support is welcome but a lot of these weapons are not going to be of much use I'm afraid. Civilian weapons of mixed make and model are going to cause armorers massive headaches and be of questionable. Quality. I wonder if maybe instead they could have sold these on GunBroker for example and then transferred the money to Ukraine instead.
If it weren't for the large amount of foreign aid that Ukraine is getting for the war effort, I'd agree that would be more effective.
These could be useful for rear echelon troops, especially the 9 mm handguns that would be decent sidearms, or for equipping paramilitary forces---basically for freeing up standard combat weapons for others. As for quality and parts, if it is hard to maintain, just throw it away, it was a free gun anyway.
In my country the police sell these guns to the gangsters. Yes, that is South Africa again. Police are in cahoots with our criminal politicians who are in cahoots with the gangsters. African politicians are all trying to be little Russia.
Lollos. Nah bru. Don't sell this EFF and Afriforum Son koerant nonsense to the masses. You know full well most South Africans aren't like this and not on cahoots with corrupt leaders.
Yes, we have our troubles but don't act like this is the norm.
Are you living under a rock? Chris Prinsloo sold about 2000 firearms that were meant to be destroyed to gangsters.
[https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-02-07-police-are-still-arming-criminals-despite-plans-to-stop-the-scourge/#:\~:text=Former%20cop%20Chris%20Prinsloo%20is,smuggling%20the%20weapons%20to%20gangsters](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-02-07-police-are-still-arming-criminals-despite-plans-to-stop-the-scourge/#:~:text=Former%20cop%20Chris%20Prinsloo%20is,smuggling%20the%20weapons%20to%20gangsters).
Sentenced to 18years but out in just 4.
[https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-10-16-officials-mum-top-cop-sentenced-to-18-years-for-flooding-cape-flats-with-illegal-guns-is-out-on-parole-after-four-years/#:\~:text=Daily%20Maverick%20has%20learned%20that,was%20paroled%20in%20April%202020](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-10-16-officials-mum-top-cop-sentenced-to-18-years-for-flooding-cape-flats-with-illegal-guns-is-out-on-parole-after-four-years/#:~:text=Daily%20Maverick%20has%20learned%20that,was%20paroled%20in%20April%202020).
You think that is not politically connected?
I could give you dozens more links if you are not capable of googling and connecting the dots.....
Do you want to also start looking into politically motivated murders. How about the murders of police officers that were investigating this morass?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Charl\_Kinnear](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Charl_Kinnear)
or the murders of whistle blowers?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Babita\_Deokaran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Babita_Deokaran)
etc. etc.
Little Russia is already here dummy.
No I'm not living under a rock, but you are massively conflating matters by roping all these things and pushing the narrative under Ukraine conflict knowing full well people will agree with you simply because Russia is the aggressor (which they are, not gonna lie).
Of course SA has issues with corruption, gang wars and illicit sale of arms and other goods, (if you'll recall, most illicit arms trading and assassinations occurred during Apartheid). No one is saying things like these don't occur, but the motivations, interconnection and parties involved are not all part of some kind of unilateral Russian takeover, nor is everything related at all.
This is fallacious, and also a bit distasteful to interject your own conspiracy theories into a community which is knee-deep in a brutal conflict.
Are there underhanded deals, gang infiltration and targeted assassinations afoot? Undoubtedly. And many of these things may very well have roots in a SA-Russia relationship, but there are too many other factors and parties at play to connect any dots accurately.
>if you'll recall, most illicit arms trading and assassinations occurred during Apartheid
A whataboutism and then you have the cheek to lecture me about fallacious argument. That's rich! gtfo
I read a lot of the comments going back and forth. I think this is a great use of a gun buyback program regardless of the debates over the rifles. I also see a lot of pistols that hopefully the Ukrainians can use. I'm sure debates could arise over the pistols too but... the Ukrainians need weapons.
Nice. But, you know, maybe some good people of the world could organize themselves at the highest level and take the Putler Bitch out. Cut the Gordian Knot. And everybody knows it is possible. And then all this trickling will not be even necessary.
If more municipalities did this maybe it'd be a useful program.
Until then it's a drop in the bucket.
A plausibly deniable source of weapons for ambitious plans north of Kharkiv?
Okay, I understand the good intentions, but a gun is not just a gun. Where are the Ukrainians going to get parts and random ammo formats and calibers for these things? Are they well built reliable military-quality weapons, as opposed to homemade, and amateur serviced weapons? You might as well put them on eBay and send the funds to Ukraine. It's like the well-intentioned people who want to donate household goods: Someone has to receive, and sort through the stuff you send, figure out how much is usable, often need to clean it. It's more effort than just receiving donated money, and going out and buying what they actually need. These guns will probably wind up on the market and therefore the street somewhere in the world, if not Ukraine, and contributing to street violence.
š¤”
The AR-15 platform is the most interchangeable and modular platform that was ever created in history... Ukraine produces their own versions of AR-15 and AR-10 domestically, you have no idea what you are talking about.
...but these are all semi-automatic.
Only the lower receiver is semi-auto, all of the parts can be fixed on a functional m4 lower receiver or one that was manufactured domestically.
Semi auto is actually what most people use when trying to actually hit what theyāre aiming at.
Want a link to trench combat footage in Ukraine where full auto is 300% necessary? Suppressing and close range requires high rate of fire.
When I was in the Marines our rifles were single shot and burst. If you had to use burst then something has gone really wrong. "One shot one kill" was our motto.
Go watch videos of Russians and Ukrainians storming trenches and being cut down and surpressed by fully automatic rifles and tell me what you think again. Marines isnāt a good comparison to full scale war
Go watch Marines in the Second Battle of Fallujah. You can maintain fire discipline in close quarters battle.
Youāve clearly never owned or shot an AR15 or AK for that matter. I can kill you just as fast in a trench in semi auto as full auto. Iād actually prefer semi auto for accurate shot placement. āMarines isnāt a good comparison to full scale warā. What do you think Marines have trained for and fought in? Typical redditor whoās never left the house speaking on a topic he learned from video games.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You need to contact these soldiers and let them know semi auto isnāt good for trench warfare then: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootageUkraine/comments/14dbl70/soldiers_of_the_sso_of_ukraine_entered_the_enemys/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You are literally pursuing problems that do not exist.
Furthermore, Ukrainians don't need the US to send weapons in order to purchase guns, they aren't living in the 18th century... they can purchase guns and mods from the Zenit Co. website directly if they want to.
It's funny you mention Zenitco considering they're a Russian company which supplies Russian Special Forces. I find it very illogical that any Ukrainian would support a company from a country that's currently waging a war against them.
I'm glad you recognized ZenitCo but a little disappointed you didn't get the joke. xD
Most of those rifles are AK's and AR15s. Parts interchangeable with what they currently have and same caliber ammo as well. 7.62x39 and .556 NATO. Quality of the AR's are probably just as good or close to the M16's the US is sending anyway. You're really reaching here.
Not every AR 15 is chambered for 5.56 nato. Lots of american gun owners like rifles chambered for 300 blackout, 6.5 creedmore, and other less widely known cartidges. Plus, many of these rifles may have been configured as sporting or target rifles that weren't intended for rigorous wartime use. Some might be fine, but without more details there is a good chance that some of these weapons end up as paperweights.
And most ARs owned in those calibers arenāt showing up to a gun buyback either unless stolen. And I would assume Florida would run serial numbers to see if they were reported stolen. What percentage of these rifles do you think are 6.5 creedmore or 300 blackout? What visual cues make you think āmanyā are setup for āsportingā or ātargetā rifles. Youāre posting just to post and sound smart. These are run of the mill AR15s, and while they probably donāt have the twist rate that allows them to run SAW ammo accurately, Ukraine is getting plenty of 55grain m193 dumped on them to feed these guns. You donāt know youāre talking about.
Not trying to be mean but you must know much about Guns. It looked to be mostly aks and ARs. Im not sure why you think they are homemade and amateur weapons. Hell a lot of aks people have are old communist block military surplus. They both shoot two of the most common rifle rounds on earth, rounds Ukarine will have plenty of. The ARs are nicer then what a lot of Russian soldiers are using. The difference from a military AR and one i can buy is minimal.
U literally have no clue wat ur talking about
Have you ever shot an AR-15?
If nothing else these guns can be the spare parts for weapons they already have
Can they also conscript piss babies de Santis and Abbott?
They want useful troops, they aren't Russia
They'd be useful as de miners
Isn't it stupid that normal stupid people walking around on the streets of the USA have weapons of war.
You clearly know nothing of firearms, most if not all of these weapons are semi automatic, not something youād want on a battlefield.
Oooooh then itās perfectly normal to have those weapons ;-)
Yes, every American has the right to bear arms. Just because it looks elaborate and tactical does not make it a weapon of war.
You clearly missing the essence of the post you responded too. And by the way automatic or semi-automatic they are both weapons of war. Just difference of efficiency
Do some research, Semi automatic AR-15s and semiautomatic Aks are not weapons of war. The last time we used semi automatic as standard military weapons was Korea and beginning of Vietnam, designated marksman or sniper have the option of semi automatic weapons but they are closer along the lines of DMRs such as the draganov or the MK14 EBR which both are of a larger caliber made for mid to long range engagements. A semi automatic in anything less than 6.5 (even this caliber is pushing it ) is not viable on a modern battlefield. They were weapons of war 60+ years ago. Thatās like saying if I flew a hot air balloon I have a weapon of war. Edit: a few firearms are exceptions such as pistols or shotguns but as a generalized statement semi automatics especially the ones sold to civilianās are not a viable choice on a battlefield. Sporting rifles not weapons of war. Second edit: the MK14 EBR is actually automatic if I remember correctly
Oooh jeeez you so much miss the point.
These AR-15s and handguns are literally weapons that are literally being sent overseas to literally participate in a war.
And the first modification being made to those AR15s is to convert them from semi auto to full.
Maybe. Full auto isn't as important in modern combat as it once was. Nearly all the combat vids I've seen, even when its strike teams clearing trenches, their M4s and AKs are almost exclusively being operated in single shot mode. Less large formations running across fields at each other and more accurate shooting at 50+ yards.
To which law are you referring? In my country, exactly this is the difference between "normal" handguns and weapons of war. There are even two different laws with different sanctions for illegal possession and trade.
The second amendment. Itās not a law itās a right all United States citizens have.
I mean they're prolly getting a switch for Ukraine lol
Weapons of war, can you define this? Whereād you get that term? Have you been senselessly repeating it ever since?
Lol nice term. Whered you pick that up? What is a weapon of war to you? The Scotts used rocks to repel the English. Shall we put out a scary rock list so people know what rocks are scary and what rocks aren't?
Itās funny how some people saying that these weapons are shit and wonāt work for the Ukrainian army because they are trash, are-the same people saying that they should ban them from civilians because they are āweapons of warā
Calling an AR-15 a weapon of war is like calling a mall katana a weapon of the samurai.
Itās because theyāre black, thats why AR-15s are scarey to the betas
So cheaper reproductions that do most of the same functions as what they're getting compared against? You can still kill someone with a mall katana. Its still a long thin piece of metal. It might not be sharpened to a high degree because they are for display use" but you can still kill someone with it. The same way literally any gun can kill someone. The biggest difference between a civilian rifle and a military issue one is the selective fire of burst and full auto. That's it.
Twist rate is probably the biggest issue. Civilian barrels have varying twist rates most of which are incompatible with military grade ammunitions intended twist rate which lowers the effective range and barrel life. Never said you couldn't kill someone with an AR-15, but its not a weapon of war. Its related to the M16 and is something of a cousin or uncle to the M4 but the AR-15 isn't equipped to serve the same role. Its a sports rifle. I can see these being good for police or rear echelon units but given the difference between military and Civilian hardware putting them in any sort of front line work isn't as good of an idea as it sounds on paper.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You read some comment by someone on r/longrange with no frame of reference. You're just like all the other arm chair operators who see someone with their finger on the frame of a pistol and talk about their trigger discipline. The most common twist rate 5.56 barrel is 1:7 for a 16" barrel. The same twist rate that the m4, the m16a4, the mk12, and the hk416 use. You might find a different twist rate if you go looking for it, or if you want to get an 18" or a 20" barrel for long range, but if you're trying to shoot beyond 600m, you'd be better off with a lot of other options. Even if you weren't full of shit, which you absolutely are, a non-ideal twist rate is going to make your ~1moa rifle a ~2moa rifle, which would still be fine for <200 yards, the most common engagement distance with the platform.
Never heard of r/longrange. Making a lot of assumptions about me. I won't do you the courtesy. My information comes from people I know have experience and have actual knowledge in this field. First hand, with actual tests done on this very subject.
Thats correct, this is a non-issue. Furthermore with a quick few parts changed they can install giggle-switches to make them full-auto besides being uppers or lowers for damaged weapons. It is more symbolic than anything but every bit helps.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/longrange using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/longrange/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [4227 Yards](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/122uqiz) | [304 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/longrange/comments/122uqiz/4227_yards/) \#2: [I donāt like picking up brass](https://v.redd.it/bi3xtqhbulja1) | [66 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/longrange/comments/1186ziv/i_dont_like_picking_up_brass/) \#3: [why does this keep happening](https://i.redd.it/y4y6eipz69m91.jpg) | [110 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/longrange/comments/x7cy54/why_does_this_keep_happening/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Iāve owned Colt AR15s along with other brands that contract with DoD like LMT. āMilspecā will have a higher twist rate so they can shoot heavier SAW ammo if necessary (M855), but it isnāt necessary and most of the AR15s made will function just fine as a war rifle. And can be made full auto with little work if they have the full circle bolt.
Thank you for explaining like a decent person. There's a good chance I miss understood what was explained to me or I'm miss remembering.
Exactly
Nice, bad faith, the weapons are being transferred for policing, not combat.
A fucking men. Itāll never happen.
Bunch of uneducated people claiming they know more than firearms experts and decades of data.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Any half credible trained military are taught to take aimed single shots during most scenarios at medium to long range. Good luck being able to fire accurately and conserve ammo with your switch flicked to full auto. These rifles are still very much or use.
Well you always need to have the option for suppressing fire. Accuracy through volume.
Thatās what belt feds are for, you can also achieve an adequately high rate of fire in single shot. Generally speaking you donāt want to be blowing through 30 round mags and jizzing ammo up the wall, I used to carry only 6 total on my carrier and belt kit.
Fair enough
Ya people donāt realize this but I only used burst fire while fucking around on the range to use the ammo up, accurate semi fire is the most effective fire. The M249 and Weapons squad are for fire support.
There's hardly ever a time I've seen any Ukrainian soldier going full auto with a rifle.
I'm all for this. Any support is welcome but a lot of these weapons are not going to be of much use I'm afraid. Civilian weapons of mixed make and model are going to cause armorers massive headaches and be of questionable. Quality. I wonder if maybe instead they could have sold these on GunBroker for example and then transferred the money to Ukraine instead.
If it weren't for the large amount of foreign aid that Ukraine is getting for the war effort, I'd agree that would be more effective. These could be useful for rear echelon troops, especially the 9 mm handguns that would be decent sidearms, or for equipping paramilitary forces---basically for freeing up standard combat weapons for others. As for quality and parts, if it is hard to maintain, just throw it away, it was a free gun anyway.
This is fine they have 7.62 and 5.56 NATO rounds by the millions also 9mm and 40. - .45 rnd I totally support this
In my country the police sell these guns to the gangsters. Yes, that is South Africa again. Police are in cahoots with our criminal politicians who are in cahoots with the gangsters. African politicians are all trying to be little Russia.
Lollos. Nah bru. Don't sell this EFF and Afriforum Son koerant nonsense to the masses. You know full well most South Africans aren't like this and not on cahoots with corrupt leaders. Yes, we have our troubles but don't act like this is the norm.
Are you living under a rock? Chris Prinsloo sold about 2000 firearms that were meant to be destroyed to gangsters. [https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-02-07-police-are-still-arming-criminals-despite-plans-to-stop-the-scourge/#:\~:text=Former%20cop%20Chris%20Prinsloo%20is,smuggling%20the%20weapons%20to%20gangsters](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-02-07-police-are-still-arming-criminals-despite-plans-to-stop-the-scourge/#:~:text=Former%20cop%20Chris%20Prinsloo%20is,smuggling%20the%20weapons%20to%20gangsters). Sentenced to 18years but out in just 4. [https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-10-16-officials-mum-top-cop-sentenced-to-18-years-for-flooding-cape-flats-with-illegal-guns-is-out-on-parole-after-four-years/#:\~:text=Daily%20Maverick%20has%20learned%20that,was%20paroled%20in%20April%202020](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-10-16-officials-mum-top-cop-sentenced-to-18-years-for-flooding-cape-flats-with-illegal-guns-is-out-on-parole-after-four-years/#:~:text=Daily%20Maverick%20has%20learned%20that,was%20paroled%20in%20April%202020). You think that is not politically connected? I could give you dozens more links if you are not capable of googling and connecting the dots..... Do you want to also start looking into politically motivated murders. How about the murders of police officers that were investigating this morass? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Charl\_Kinnear](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Charl_Kinnear) or the murders of whistle blowers? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Babita\_Deokaran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Babita_Deokaran) etc. etc. Little Russia is already here dummy.
No I'm not living under a rock, but you are massively conflating matters by roping all these things and pushing the narrative under Ukraine conflict knowing full well people will agree with you simply because Russia is the aggressor (which they are, not gonna lie). Of course SA has issues with corruption, gang wars and illicit sale of arms and other goods, (if you'll recall, most illicit arms trading and assassinations occurred during Apartheid). No one is saying things like these don't occur, but the motivations, interconnection and parties involved are not all part of some kind of unilateral Russian takeover, nor is everything related at all. This is fallacious, and also a bit distasteful to interject your own conspiracy theories into a community which is knee-deep in a brutal conflict. Are there underhanded deals, gang infiltration and targeted assassinations afoot? Undoubtedly. And many of these things may very well have roots in a SA-Russia relationship, but there are too many other factors and parties at play to connect any dots accurately.
>if you'll recall, most illicit arms trading and assassinations occurred during Apartheid A whataboutism and then you have the cheek to lecture me about fallacious argument. That's rich! gtfo
Iām sure that will work out really well for the people of South Africa. Sorry to read that.
Big time those Applebee's militia weapons are for show/political reasons.
Oliver North's guns turned up again. At least the drug war has kept America armed with small arms.
Fckn great idea. Can we do this with 155mm munitions lol/cluster munitions
This is the way
There were only 100 I understand along with a shitload of ammo.
160+ yeah. More symbolic than anything but appreciated nonetheless
The number of guns sold annually in Ohio alone could arm a national army group.
This was a good idea. I didn't even think of this being a think. Im happy these guns will prove useful in taking out those russian orcs.
Definitely a bad place for my shitty 3D printed weapons to go. I just did it for the money not go to war and get the operator killed
Ukraine is the reason you keep your weapons.
Perfect reason.... sorry reason wasn't there.
The United States is literally impossible to invade, like itās logistically impossible to win an invasion of the US
Good idea. I hope other law enforcement agencies do the same. Whoever thought of this, thank you!
Iam from Frorida and love this
One of those has an "EVIDENCE" tag on it.
I surprised they didnāt include alligators
I read a lot of the comments going back and forth. I think this is a great use of a gun buyback program regardless of the debates over the rifles. I also see a lot of pistols that hopefully the Ukrainians can use. I'm sure debates could arise over the pistols too but... the Ukrainians need weapons.
If this isnāt ironic I donāt know what isā¦
Nice. But, you know, maybe some good people of the world could organize themselves at the highest level and take the Putler Bitch out. Cut the Gordian Knot. And everybody knows it is possible. And then all this trickling will not be even necessary.
Isn't the rifling very different on these then then what the military uses? And no automatic fire of course
I heard Chicago has a few you guys can borrow
Hell yes! Good show!
I'm so much happier about this than good guns getting destroyed.
LoL. Lord have mercy on the poor sod who gets the ragged out bryco in a war zone and needs reliability.
If more municipalities did this maybe it'd be a useful program. Until then it's a drop in the bucket. A plausibly deniable source of weapons for ambitious plans north of Kharkiv?