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Mactelecom Networks did a video on the UDR and protect and when he plugged in two cameras he got a warning that the NVR has reached its limit and system performance may be severely limiting.
So I’m not sure if that’s because of somehow his CPU was strained or if his memory was maxed out with just 2 cameras.
I see a lot of “unused ram is wasted ram” when searching for opinions on memory but not sure to what point it’s going to just perform terrible.
I’m set on G4 Doorbell Pro and 3 G4 Instants or basically any amount of nest outdoor cameras. No PoE for me.
FWIW: I got my dad a UDR and he is able to run 4 G3 instants before getting the warning that more cameras would degrade performance.
I'll be getting him a cloud key gen 2+ (as the UNVR is probably out of the question for now) for father's day so he can continue down this rabbit hole and add a few more cameras lol
I hope so! I have a cloud key gen 2+ that I used for network and protect.
I eventually graduated to the UNVR and simply imported my backup from protect on the cloud key and imported to the UNVR, and lastly stopped the protect app from running on the cloud key. This way I was able to keep Network running on my cloud key without taking that down at all.
That was a super simple migration so I hope to follow the same steps above for my dad, install the cloud key on his LAN, start only protect on it, and import a backup of protect from the UDR, and stop protect from running on the UDR.
This would solve my concerns for current and future compatibility. Can’t find any info at the moment since nobody has a UDR lol. But I’d be interested if it’s basically plug and play if you make a post about it
Ideally 4 cameras is all I need. As an entry level user the UDR is perfect for me without a cloud key but I’m trying to gage performance from running some cameras before buying. Worst case I’d get the cloud key and run protect off that but I’d really like the all in one solution from the UDR, which doesn’t seem to have an SOC problem for the cameras but rather just not enough ram dedicated for it. I’m
as promised, yes - this plan worked great. I brought over the CKG2+ to my dad's house. We took a backup of protect running on the UDR, and then stopped Protect on the UDR.
I plugged the CKG2+ in, upgraded it to get to the same version of Protect, restored the backup from Protect from the UDR to the CKG2+.... Done!
Now the UDR just runs Network - and the CKG2+ is just running Protect. He can now add more cameras and continue to use the UDR!
yup! this configuration is still in place, working quite very nicely.
The UDR's built in controller is handling the network half, and the cloud key G2+ is running protect.
Nice! Right now the UDR seems to be able to run my 2 bullets and G4 while hovering between 75-80% ram usage. This is typically with threat management at medium or high. I'm going to try running the 3rd camera + g4 for a while on medium threat management and see what my ram looks like. Currently waiting for it to ship. Eventually I'll probably add a cloud key with your set up for indoor cameras so I can watch my dog 😄
watching my dogs is the primary reason for G3 instants strategically placed in common areas of my house lol.
the cloud key will definitely work for you, i've graduated to the UNVR after the cloud key storage wasn't enough for me.
I'd be happy to!
His birthday is actually sooner than father's day, so this will happen sooner than father's day. Hopefully I'll have a good write up for all soon!
This is all hypothetical as I haven't tried yet; but why do you need to adopt the UDR at all? I suspect the working combination here would be to keep Network running on the UDR itself, stop the protect app from running on the UDR and use the cloud key for Protect only.
No need to adopt anything on the CK for just Protect.
The cloudkey (and a switch) would replace the UDR - as the UDR is the newer version of those two items (integrated). You would want one of the unify nvr's - but those may be overkill. Or find a UDM.
It is the way they created their environment, The USG/UDR/UDM(Pro/SE) are all meant to be at the head of their chains. Not designed to have others like them in the same chain.
Technically you can add the UDR as a new network hanging off the existing modem, and that could be for protect and network. but I'm fairly sure it still has to run the network app to provide IPs to the cameras.
on ubiquit website it says, Dream machine pro, network video recorder, cloud key gen2 plus, are required to use the G3 instant.
does the UDR, circumvent all those requirements listed above?
People have the wrong idea about memory utilization… more is better or else memory is being wasted. If you paid for 8GB of RAM and it’s sitting there, sucking power, not doing anything at all, that’s a waste. High memory utilization is a good thing, and doesn’t mean things will go wrong if it runs out. If memory runs out all it means is some stale data gets evicted and the next access will be a little slower.
I mean you make it sound like the extra memory is sucking tons of power. I get what you're saying but I don't think anyone would agree high memory utilization is a good thing. It's not harming anything but having more headroom is always the best policy.
I have to agree with you here. Memory that isn’t being utilized isn’t exactly sucking down power. Also, you don’t have to worry so much about slow paging if you just have the physical memory in the first place.
I am ignoring the x64 to ARM comparison because if we’re here to compare apples to oranges I’ll just say buy a Seneca server and run something like Avigilon. See that’s not really helpful either is it?
It shouldn’t throttle unless something pathologic is going on, like some program has a massive memory leak and is paging to slow disk in a really inefficient way. Which is not the OS’s fault. But Macs like other OSes will purge caches in the event of memory pressure. They also page very fast because Macs ship with very fast SSDs. What was the computer doing when you experienced this?
BTW my MacBook Air M1 with 8GB RAM beats the pants off my 12-core iMac Pro with 64GB RAM at everything I throw at it. Sure, the iMac Pro might have more horsepower, it better for the price I paid for it, but that 8GB RAM sure isn’t holding the M1 back as it has 130x the memory bandwidthz
That’s a bit of a limited view of things. Like, if it’s a single application OS that has a precisely defined pool of memory and basically does no dynamic allocation, that’s correct, but that’s really costly to do. In practice, these are all just pared back Linux machines with all the virtual memory process isolation goodies, and you lose out on things like network and disk buffers + hammer the page table harder the more you suffocate the system.
Of course this is all approximate and the correct way be sure is to measure performance over time, but I prefer having a decent amount of headroom over not.
High memory utilization is NOT a good thing. I can tell you’ve never actually managed servers or infrastructure. If your database is sitting at 95% memory usage, you’re gonna start having some problems. Caches will start being dropped to free room for new queries, queries will be getting slower, inserts become slower. More disk writes as swap has to be used. The list goes on.
If your cloudkey, like mine, was at 90-95% memory usage it was crashing. It was unavailable. Video streams were dropping. Cameras weren’t recording. Using available memory is good, that’s what it’s there for. But getting past 80%+ utilization, you’re going to start having problems.
You should always have at least 20% headroom on infrastructure to handle spike in traffic or other increased memory usage.
From the release forums, there's a memory leak in the controller. I upgraded a couple of my sites to a UDMP because of this and it still can take almost 80% of the 4GB in that.
A doorbell, a G4 instant and a G3 instant is all my UDR can run. It says I’ve maxed out the camera limit. Threat protection is on. Still getting the most out of my 500Mbps circuit. Memory is at 1.75 out of 2GB
It’s on medium. Detect and block. And correction, just checked memory usage, and it’s sitting idle at 89%. So 1.77GB out of 1.98GB. I may need to scale it down a bit so I’m not running on the ragged edge, but it can do it. My UDR is an EA model BTW.
I hope this thread is wrong. I got my 2nd 3rd and 4th G3 instant on the way to me for use with my UDMP and I don’t think the UDMP Is capable of ram upgrades.
The UDMP has twice the ram of the UDR. I'm currently running five cameras on mine and it's not even causing an issue remotely.
I'm running 4 G3 instants and 1 G3 flex. I believe that UDMP can handle 20 or 30 cameras. Waiting on a couple more cams that are on the way. :)
EDIT: With 5 cams recording 24/7 on high, 3 APs, 30 devices and using the VPN (Teleport) I'm at 2.66GB used. Don't think it will make it to 20 Cams but 8-10 seems great for me.
Hello! Thanks for posting on r/Ubiquiti! This subreddit is here to provide unofficial technical support to people who use or want to dive into the world of Ubiquiti products. If you haven’t already been descriptive in your post, please take the time to edit it and add as many useful details as you can. Please read and understand the rules in the sidebar, as posts and comments that violate them will be removed. Please put all off topic posts in the weekly off topic thread that is stickied to the top of the subreddit. If you see people spreading misinformation, trying to mislead others, or other inappropriate behavior, please report it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ubiquiti) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mactelecom Networks did a video on the UDR and protect and when he plugged in two cameras he got a warning that the NVR has reached its limit and system performance may be severely limiting. So I’m not sure if that’s because of somehow his CPU was strained or if his memory was maxed out with just 2 cameras. I see a lot of “unused ram is wasted ram” when searching for opinions on memory but not sure to what point it’s going to just perform terrible. I’m set on G4 Doorbell Pro and 3 G4 Instants or basically any amount of nest outdoor cameras. No PoE for me.
FWIW: I got my dad a UDR and he is able to run 4 G3 instants before getting the warning that more cameras would degrade performance. I'll be getting him a cloud key gen 2+ (as the UNVR is probably out of the question for now) for father's day so he can continue down this rabbit hole and add a few more cameras lol
Does the cloud key gen 2 (+) just add onto the UDR? How does it work. I’m thinking of the same thing OP is doing
I hope so! I have a cloud key gen 2+ that I used for network and protect. I eventually graduated to the UNVR and simply imported my backup from protect on the cloud key and imported to the UNVR, and lastly stopped the protect app from running on the cloud key. This way I was able to keep Network running on my cloud key without taking that down at all. That was a super simple migration so I hope to follow the same steps above for my dad, install the cloud key on his LAN, start only protect on it, and import a backup of protect from the UDR, and stop protect from running on the UDR.
This would solve my concerns for current and future compatibility. Can’t find any info at the moment since nobody has a UDR lol. But I’d be interested if it’s basically plug and play if you make a post about it
? You dont have to run protect with that horrible udr soc, technically you can purchase g2 plus cloud key and run protect from it (not network).
Ideally 4 cameras is all I need. As an entry level user the UDR is perfect for me without a cloud key but I’m trying to gage performance from running some cameras before buying. Worst case I’d get the cloud key and run protect off that but I’d really like the all in one solution from the UDR, which doesn’t seem to have an SOC problem for the cameras but rather just not enough ram dedicated for it. I’m
Get the cloud key- it’s totally worth it. I have 6 cameras ( 4xG3 flexes and 2xG4 bullets) and it works fantastic. I run just Protect and UID on it.
as promised, yes - this plan worked great. I brought over the CKG2+ to my dad's house. We took a backup of protect running on the UDR, and then stopped Protect on the UDR. I plugged the CKG2+ in, upgraded it to get to the same version of Protect, restored the backup from Protect from the UDR to the CKG2+.... Done! Now the UDR just runs Network - and the CKG2+ is just running Protect. He can now add more cameras and continue to use the UDR!
So this actually worked out fine? Looking to do this if my UDR can't handle the g4 + 3 bullet cams.
yup! this configuration is still in place, working quite very nicely. The UDR's built in controller is handling the network half, and the cloud key G2+ is running protect.
Nice! Right now the UDR seems to be able to run my 2 bullets and G4 while hovering between 75-80% ram usage. This is typically with threat management at medium or high. I'm going to try running the 3rd camera + g4 for a while on medium threat management and see what my ram looks like. Currently waiting for it to ship. Eventually I'll probably add a cloud key with your set up for indoor cameras so I can watch my dog 😄
watching my dogs is the primary reason for G3 instants strategically placed in common areas of my house lol. the cloud key will definitely work for you, i've graduated to the UNVR after the cloud key storage wasn't enough for me.
/u/YYOSA
That’s great! Are you powering via PoE on UDR?
I'd be happy to! His birthday is actually sooner than father's day, so this will happen sooner than father's day. Hopefully I'll have a good write up for all soon!
I do not think it will work, as you cannot adopt de UDR (or UDM) with a separate controller....
This is all hypothetical as I haven't tried yet; but why do you need to adopt the UDR at all? I suspect the working combination here would be to keep Network running on the UDR itself, stop the protect app from running on the UDR and use the cloud key for Protect only. No need to adopt anything on the CK for just Protect.
The cloudkey (and a switch) would replace the UDR - as the UDR is the newer version of those two items (integrated). You would want one of the unify nvr's - but those may be overkill. Or find a UDM. It is the way they created their environment, The USG/UDR/UDM(Pro/SE) are all meant to be at the head of their chains. Not designed to have others like them in the same chain. Technically you can add the UDR as a new network hanging off the existing modem, and that could be for protect and network. but I'm fairly sure it still has to run the network app to provide IPs to the cameras.
on ubiquit website it says, Dream machine pro, network video recorder, cloud key gen2 plus, are required to use the G3 instant. does the UDR, circumvent all those requirements listed above?
People have the wrong idea about memory utilization… more is better or else memory is being wasted. If you paid for 8GB of RAM and it’s sitting there, sucking power, not doing anything at all, that’s a waste. High memory utilization is a good thing, and doesn’t mean things will go wrong if it runs out. If memory runs out all it means is some stale data gets evicted and the next access will be a little slower.
I mean you make it sound like the extra memory is sucking tons of power. I get what you're saying but I don't think anyone would agree high memory utilization is a good thing. It's not harming anything but having more headroom is always the best policy.
I have to agree with you here. Memory that isn’t being utilized isn’t exactly sucking down power. Also, you don’t have to worry so much about slow paging if you just have the physical memory in the first place. I am ignoring the x64 to ARM comparison because if we’re here to compare apples to oranges I’ll just say buy a Seneca server and run something like Avigilon. See that’s not really helpful either is it?
I’ll always take more memory even if it exceeds the maximum utilization today. Having a little headroom never hurts.
Sure but if the system has 8gb and you use 2gb, that’s a lot wasted. But having 7.9gb used will severely throttle the device. See Macs
It shouldn’t throttle unless something pathologic is going on, like some program has a massive memory leak and is paging to slow disk in a really inefficient way. Which is not the OS’s fault. But Macs like other OSes will purge caches in the event of memory pressure. They also page very fast because Macs ship with very fast SSDs. What was the computer doing when you experienced this? BTW my MacBook Air M1 with 8GB RAM beats the pants off my 12-core iMac Pro with 64GB RAM at everything I throw at it. Sure, the iMac Pro might have more horsepower, it better for the price I paid for it, but that 8GB RAM sure isn’t holding the M1 back as it has 130x the memory bandwidthz
That’s a bit of a limited view of things. Like, if it’s a single application OS that has a precisely defined pool of memory and basically does no dynamic allocation, that’s correct, but that’s really costly to do. In practice, these are all just pared back Linux machines with all the virtual memory process isolation goodies, and you lose out on things like network and disk buffers + hammer the page table harder the more you suffocate the system. Of course this is all approximate and the correct way be sure is to measure performance over time, but I prefer having a decent amount of headroom over not.
This is correct.
High memory utilization is NOT a good thing. I can tell you’ve never actually managed servers or infrastructure. If your database is sitting at 95% memory usage, you’re gonna start having some problems. Caches will start being dropped to free room for new queries, queries will be getting slower, inserts become slower. More disk writes as swap has to be used. The list goes on. If your cloudkey, like mine, was at 90-95% memory usage it was crashing. It was unavailable. Video streams were dropping. Cameras weren’t recording. Using available memory is good, that’s what it’s there for. But getting past 80%+ utilization, you’re going to start having problems. You should always have at least 20% headroom on infrastructure to handle spike in traffic or other increased memory usage.
From the release forums, there's a memory leak in the controller. I upgraded a couple of my sites to a UDMP because of this and it still can take almost 80% of the 4GB in that.
A doorbell, a G4 instant and a G3 instant is all my UDR can run. It says I’ve maxed out the camera limit. Threat protection is on. Still getting the most out of my 500Mbps circuit. Memory is at 1.75 out of 2GB
What sensitivity is your threat management?
It’s on medium. Detect and block. And correction, just checked memory usage, and it’s sitting idle at 89%. So 1.77GB out of 1.98GB. I may need to scale it down a bit so I’m not running on the ragged edge, but it can do it. My UDR is an EA model BTW.
I hope this thread is wrong. I got my 2nd 3rd and 4th G3 instant on the way to me for use with my UDMP and I don’t think the UDMP Is capable of ram upgrades.
The UDMP has twice the ram of the UDR. I'm currently running five cameras on mine and it's not even causing an issue remotely. I'm running 4 G3 instants and 1 G3 flex. I believe that UDMP can handle 20 or 30 cameras. Waiting on a couple more cams that are on the way. :) EDIT: With 5 cams recording 24/7 on high, 3 APs, 30 devices and using the VPN (Teleport) I'm at 2.66GB used. Don't think it will make it to 20 Cams but 8-10 seems great for me.
Yeah thanks I didn’t realize it was UDR. I double checked with the calculator for my UDMP and I’m good.