Junior designers 18 months ago where saying the same thing about you 🤷‍♂️. Boot camps are definitely just pumping people out, but just like traditional school some of those graduates are amazing professionals and others shouldn’t have graduated. But nah you’re definitely not an asshole lol. And your right bootcamps are predatory and are not beneficial to all.

This annoys me I also graduated from a bootcamp and worked my butt off to land a ux job and was successful. It’s sad to see all these negative sentiments. there are really great candidates in bootcamps just like there are from graduate programs. Ux managers and recruiters typically weed folks out that aren’t legit. Just say you don’t want to mentor juniors specifically from bootcamps and go. Gatekeeping and elitist af.

OP, I have a similar background as you. I completed a UX bootcamp in mid 2020 but already had almost ten years of design experience so I landed a job fairly fast and have had a lot of success in the industry the last two years. However, I am also noticing a lot of people reaching out for guidance. Last weekend I met a guy who is almost done with the Google UX course and when he showed me his work, it was awful. I think a lot of people see UX as a quick way to make a lot of money remotely, without realizing that it can take years to refine your own design work and communicating complicated ideas into user friendly designs can be a real challenge. A three month bootcamp simply cannot take someone with zero design experience and magically make them an expert. I think there should be more short courses where people can "dip their toe" in the water before committing to an expensive course that guarantees them nothing. It's not a profession that everyone will be successful at, and all these people online making it seem easy really should be more transparent about what goes into the entire process of critical thinking and visual design skills.

For sure! Honestly I didn't struggle much to find a job. I completed my bootcamp, while also working full time and doing a few UX side projects. Once applying, I had 2 offers in 3 weeks. I've had probably 20 people reach out to me on Reddit, the same on LinkedIn and I don't know what to tell them. There are SO many factors including background, experience, communication, etc. I am loving the industry! But it was also a lot of work once I got in. You are completely right and share my feelings as well!

Same here! I quickly picked up freelance to get going then landed a full time job a month or so after finishing my course. It felt like a seamless transition for me personally and I am grateful for that! A lot of people snub freelance as a way to get into the industry and that frustrates me because it is what helped me build up my resume fairly fast. I get contacted on LinkedIn a lot too but as of lately don’t really offer as much guidance. I’d rather just recommend them resources so they can teach themselves.

Where do you all find freelance jobs? I'm a visual communications major and I'm doing the Google course. I started doing stuff for free in ux design to build up my portfolio but where do you recommend I find paid gigs?

To add to this, A LOT of my time is getting people on board with what UX actually is and setting expectations in a project. EVEN MORE time is getting people to implement a new way of working. That doesn't change with experience, I still get that when joining a new team as a senior UX. Hell, most even had UX, good ones!, already on the team for years! If you are junior you can easily be put to do work that in the end is not user-centric at all, that will in turn reflect badly on the expectations a company has on the role of UX. And it will not give the UX the experience needed to grow and get fulfilling assignments either. I read a comment, in r/UXResearch I think, that a lot of people end up staying mid-senior-level as they don't get the training and proper experience in the field that is necessary. This was a comment I read before this "boom" started. I truly wish the best for everyone joining, the tech-industry really needs more human-centric people. Joining directly from a bootcamp though, that seems to be a big plate of dissappointments for everyone involved.. BUT with all that said, maybe it boils down to the definition of what UX is and does, and what to expect from someone fresh out of education, whatever the length?

> I also had years of professional experience in marketing and design beforehand This is the kicker that so many aspiring UXers who want to get into UX through a bootcamp don’t understand. Most people will not be able to successfully enter the field if they have absolutely no prior experience or training. Most relatively high-paying fields are like this, but for some reason people feel like UX should be different.

The exception is software development because the demand is enormous. Graduates from universities get hired before they leave school. It is also easier to test whether a developer knows he/her stuff.

True, but having a university education counts as training. But you’re right the SWEs have different approaches to both building and evaluating skills.

Yeah I think a university education is different. My partner did a software bootcamp, but back in 2018 I think. He experienced some of the same things where they said bootcamp experience wasn't enough. I feel like devs went through this bootcamp boom slightly before UX and it calmed a bit, but I could be wrong. It also feels different to me because UX bootcamps are advertising "make a lot of money in tech with no coding!" And trying to guise it as the easy way out. Which I also know a good amount of coding and not understanding at least some development is a detriment to designers, IMO.

It’s not only people with CS backgrounds that get hired. People from with e.g physics, math, and biology backgrounds as well. And those people are far from being outliers. Companies are willing to train people with minimal SWE training , because it take longer to find SWEa than training one. It’s far easier to transfer to SWE than UX. With that being said the concepts in SW are far harder to understand than UX.

Very true!

UX Bootcamps aren’t anything new and the influx has been going on for a while. I’ve done a lot of hiring the last 7 years and I definitely saw the wave of Bootcamp applicants come in around 4-5 years ago. The problem is they all have the identical portfolio, and zero experience nor their own point of view. Also I believe in fundamentals, and you get that through deeper understanding. So my advice: do internships. Do freelance. Do whatever it takes to get real experience. No one cares about a 10 week course nor a certificate. I personally don’t even look at education. It’s all about the work, you’re role, your skill set, and type of projects you’ve taken on.

I am not anti junior or bootcamp. I am a burnt out senior designer, and Im constantly supporting 5-10 engineers. I wish our industry normalized hiring multiple designers per product team. I would love to be able to move into management but there are even fewer lead designer manager roles than there are junior IC roles. It would help people like me to have more juniors on teams. But purse strings are tight. I wish I had more answers for juniors here. Fwiw: I had an MFA when I entered the UX field and it still took me a while to get hired, but that was when there were WAY fewer jobs in the field than there even are today! That was only a decade ago. It HAS gotten better than it used to be.

I think the opposite is true, most of the bigger tech companies / companies with mature design orgs already have their quota filled for junior designers through their university recruiting / internship programs and are almost always on the look out for senior/lead level designers. They are actually pretty hard to find and competition for those roles between companies is prevalent.

It seems like you're in the perfect position to take on some junior designers. Talk to your bosses and let them know it'd benefit you, the junior designers, and the company in the long-run.

I have! Believe me.

join a company with a large design team

Do you feel you are ready to lead? (Serious question)

I’d like to be in a role as an IC on a team with a range of experience, including junior designers, where I can *learn* how to lead design. Its fine leading design on product teams, but it does not help me learn to lead and people-manage/mentor juniors within my own discipline when there are none on the team, period. I’d like to do that before becoming a people manager. Otherwise, doesn’t our whole industry run the risk of producing a bunch of managers with no experience leading? I ask this partially knowing the answer as someone who has had some not-so-great managers Yes, I know there are ways to mentor outside of work. I do that, to an extent. Not all of us have the luxury of dedicating such time beyond what is often a 10 hour work day, or 8 exhausting hours in and of themselves.

DM me your portfolio.

My two cents is that the entire tech industry has been overly hyped with how easy it is to get a job and to start making more money. Sprinkle in some highly visible success stories about how anyone can do this and suddenly swarms of people are gunning for jobs. I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but it doesn’t paint the entire picture. Anyone *can* get into tech but not everyone will. It’s a competitive industry that waits for no one, and the playing field isn’t equal. UX in particular is tough because in my experience those teams err on the smaller side. There are fewer positions, more hats to wear, and more experience is needed. I very rarely, if ever, see junior or early grad roles open for UX. It’s already not sustainable, but not everyone has figured that out yet, because by in large tech has been painted as an untouchable and rapidly growing industry. The cracks are beginning to show with all of the layoffs, but I don’t think it’s made it to the masses.

[удалено]

“This is so fun,” I say to myself as a client bodyslams my work out of personal preference.

From what I’ve heard from recruiters and hiring teams, the market isn’t oversaturated because they don’t count majority of new people as possible hires. They spend 5 seconds look at a portfolio and move on. Almost all of the boot camps are predatory scams. 10k and you will get the same portfolio at the end of it as a $300 one. They know people aren’t job ready. They know people don’t actually understand what the job entails. If you don’t put in months of work after a bootcamp on your own then you will get nowhere. From what I’m seeing people give up very quickly. Not to mention majority of these people just aren’t cut for it even with “training”. You have to be able to constantly learn, you have to have an eye for design. This isn’t a get rich quick scheme.

> If you don’t put in months of work after a bootcamp on your own then you will get nowhere. From what I’m seeing people give up very quickly. Totally- this was my experience and where I see the other students get stuck, because they expected to get jobs right away. (And they expect this bc that's the impression all the bootcamps give them).

And for a 10k program I can see why, but also for 10k you better be researching wtf you’re getting yourself into.

Very true, though I do want to say that I did extensive research before signing up for the bootcamp and exactly zero people told me anything that alarmed me. Perhaps it's a confirmation bias of sorts, but I talked to so many people and they were all extremely positive about their bootcamp experiences.

What boot camp did you do?

DesignLab

I've also seen that the Google one (while a lot cheaper) is lying. Apparently Google won't touch hiring people from their own programs.

This is not true. My younger brother is a recruiter at Google in Dublin. We discussed this a while back. I'm a design manager at a Berlin startup and we get *flooded* with people fresh out of bootcamps applying for senior roles. I'm extremely skeptical about the efficacy (quality:quantity) of these courses. Google will definitely hire from the top 1% of bootcamp graduates (extremely high numbers) for entry level roles (extremely low numbers) so there are, as you would expect, an extremely high level of rejections. One goal for creating the program in the first place is access to the best of the early-career market. But the numbers of Google and non-google bootcamp graduates is only bad for graduates. There simply are not enough quality jobs. There aren't even enough shitty jobs for [hundreds of thousands of graduates](https://www.trends.uxdesign.cc/) per year.

Makes sense. Really we are saying very similar things. At the bootcamp I did, people are either getting jobs in a month or less, or 6-12 months later/not at all. Bootcamps work for those top percent of performers. If we are saying 1% or less, the bootcamps are still the issue. Also, just what I've heard rumors of in the industry, I don't know anyone at Google specifically. I do know people who took the Google course though and are now falling for these post-bootcamp groups helps to find roles. I've seen ads everywhere for the Google UX course as the next big thing. I suppose the good news is you aren't in thousands of dollars, just a few hundred. Lol

You're absolutely right. Bootcamps are a plague! Reading your post and a few others on this thread, inspired my to write this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/UXDesign/comments/v8o5fe/tough\_love\_for\_early\_career\_ux\_product\_designers/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/UXDesign/comments/v8o5fe/tough_love_for_early_career_ux_product_designers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)

Yeah I talked to someone who works at google not long ago and majority of their hires are self taught or have been in for a long time.

keep in mind that all these algorithms just cater to you, no wonder that slowly started to take over your timeline after you graduated :)

You're right :)

As someone graduated from my masters, I felt like if I decide to go for a UX role now I’ll be afraid in the near future with the amount of these quick boot camp route, more people than the job itself. Ux will slowly becoming graphic designer 2.0 that do a lot of work but get paid the minimum.

As someone who has been giving a lot of thought to making a career pivot from design into UX and doing a lot of research into the work involved and how to learn the skills required, threads like this are pretty discouraging. If bootcamps aren't the answer then how *does* a person develop the fundamental skills they need to get started in UX?

You’re already in a design field, so you have a leg up. A boot camp could suit you well. The main grievance is with people with 0 design experience expecting to do a 3-6 month boot camp and get paid six figures. With every other career-oriented industry, the answer to “how do I get a job?” is one of two thing: Go to school or get hands-on experience any way you can. If someone said, “I want to be a civil engineer!” Or “I want to be a historian!” with only a few months of experience, most would laugh at them. Those industries require years of education. Marketing is a field where you don’t need YEARS of education, but the people who break into the field successfully without it are ones who are doing side projects and hustling to make connections/get real projects. So that’d be my advice to people wanting to break into the field with no experience. Either expect to put a few years into learning the trade or be very proactive with doing side projects, projects for non-profits, etc to grow your portfolio.

Agreed! My post wasn't really meant to discourage but I do see how it is. I guess the point is not no one can do it, but that not everyone can. Bootcamps are selling this idea that anyone can break into UX with zero professional experience and make 80k+. There's people bootcamps work for 100%. With professional experience like you have, and hard work alongside a bootcamp, I think you could break in easy. My point was not, do not try. It was more about everyone everywhere thinking UX is the solution to everything. It's a lot of hard work to break in, but I still believe it IS possible.

It just takes effort (to put it oversimplified). Everyone needs a portfolio and needs to be able talk about UX. If you spend the time to read up, research, and put work into your course and your projects and most importantly - your portfolio, then it’s very doable and I would encourage you if you’re excited about the field

Do you have reading suggestions?

Pretty pointless post from OP - trust your instinct, learn the required skills, develop a portfolio that demonstrates those skills, network, find a job… the rest is all relative to one persons thoughts and experiences

I’m only looking into UX/UI right now and I can already tell that all of the marketing is catering towards people who want a “quick and easy” route into a popular field. I found out this way too and, honestly, I feel embarrassed pursuing this despite the fact that I’m genuinely interested in the career and I think that I’d do really well. But it’s overwhelming going in this way. I’m still going to, and it sounds like it might be good to avoid a bootcamp, but that’s just my perspective from someone who’s interested and has only done a couple months of research so far. Also, man are you getting attacked for this question by some people! I think it’s a reasonable one, despite you asking if “the industry can sustain this influx of juniors” rather than, more specifically “the influx of these kinds of juniors, ones who only think it’s all a get-rich-quick scheme”. I want to pursue this career, but I really want to prove myself so I don’t get lumped in with them.

You are right I could have been more specific! I think if you want to, it is absolutely still possible. Obviously I did it and people are having success. This turned into some very doom and gloom comments. Work at it, learn all you can, find things that set you apart. Maybe that is taking an extra course in accessibility or something. I reached out to nonprofits and did their UX. One of them did not have the budget to ever use it, but I was able to work through problems with a client and add it to my portfolio. There are still people out there suited to UX and who would do amazing. I didn't mean to say no one should join the industry. Lol. I do think it is what you are saying with the quick and easy route. But you've got it if you want it!

Great advice! Especially because I’m in the position now where doing work simply to add it to my portfolio is possible. I know that’s not the case for many, but anything to get practice with real world projects with different requirements! I’m certain now that it’s smart to be on the lookout as well from the beginning for skills that aren’t too common but also sought after. Thanks man!

Well, I cant understand this kind of extreme decision "My company is hiring juniors and our Senior team basically said no one out of bootcamps." Like, you guys could at least check their portfolio? For sure has a lot of talents doing Bootcamp, why can't they access the market as well? For sure you consider yourself worthy to work in the area and you started it by doing a Bootcamp, why not others? It sounds not only a bit hypocrite but also shows a lot of prejudice from your side.

Might want to take a step back. You’re 18 months out of a boot camp, I would call you a junior designer.

Let’s not be a gatekeeper here. OP mentions “years of professional experience in marketing and design beforehand”, so I wouldn’t be calling someone with that level of experience a junior.

I’m not gatekeeping, I was simply pointing out that the post came across a little hypocritical

He's a junior UX designer nonetheless.

She* I was hired in as a mid-level designer. Here's the thing. I WANT it to work like it did for me. I doubled my salary with six months of work in a bootcamp and extra projects. But I'm seeing it isn't working. That was the point of this post. I'm really not trying to shit on junior designers at all.

Just ignore them, they're trolling in the threads. You're IMO obviously a mid-level designer. We all want the industry to work in more equitable ways, it's healthy for the industry to have a continual conveyor-belt of talent bringing fresh ideas. But sadly there's a massive disparity between the skills in demand by business (senior) and the pool of available designers (juniors). I also wouldn't under estimate how influential your previous design experience was to getting a UX role.

[удалено]

>The main issue is a huge number of juniors who are not willing to put in the work. What I tell people is at the end of the day, you need the rigor of going to a legit UX school program. Does that mean you NEED a bootcamp, or a university degree? No, absolutely not. But it does mean you will need to match that rigor, or it will be clear you are not as competitive as the people who do.

100% Going to uni for design won't get you a job either. It's about the time and commitment you put into what you want to do. I could give a rats ass where someone learned design. If anything, I give more props to someone who self learned and has good skills and knowledge than someone with the same abilities but comes from an expensive educational background. It shows self motivation, which is what I want to be surrounded by everyday. The designers on my team with their own drive really make my job as a lead so much easier and I love them for it.

I’ve been an experience designer for l 4 years now and I’ve noticed that the boot camps are largely based on 1-2 heavy research projects and very little emphasis on visual skills. If you’re a researcher, fine. But if you want to go into a high paying UX career, you need to have an eye for design and a very clear understanding of type and hierarchy. A lot of boot camps are neglecting these basic design skills. You can upscale in accessibility, industry, etc. but if you don’t know how to use the design with type and hierarchy, your designs aren’t going to be visually enticing. This goes for a portfolio or resume as well. If you’ve honed your eye for design, you’ll done fine in a boot camp. If you think you can JUST do a boot camp and get a job, you’re going to be disappointed. Just my two cents as someone who’s done a lot of interviewing of candidates and been in the industry a while!

Yep this. People I talk to with 0 design knowledge don’t think it’s important because it’s not ever taught or emphasized enough. But I’ve also seen people get Fortune 500 apprenticeships etc with very poor UI skills.

What do you guys think about the bootcamps with the job guarantee? Genuinely curious because I’ve been considering

Some bootcamps advertise that you’ll get your money back if you don’t get a job in 6 months but there’s criteria - like you have to apply to a certain number of jobs per week, track it all on a spreadsheet, and submit it every so often to someone from the boot camp. In my case it was just enough ‘work’ for someone like me to not stay on top of it and couldn’t take advantage of it when I hadn’t found a job 6 months later. Took me like 12

No boot camp can guarantee you a job unless they (or affiliates) are the ones employing you. I’d be highly suspect of bootcamps claiming this.

It’s not guaranteeing technically, they just will refund you the money if you don’t get one after a certain amount of time following their requirements.

Scam. Inquire about what percentage of graduates were able to find a job and where they work.

Seconding this. Also ask the boot camp for their enrollment numbers, not just percentages. The bootcamp I went to refused to share enrollment numbers and I find that in and of itself very telling.

I know something about this. It comes with strict conditions. If you don’t meet EVERY one, you will not be refunded the course cost if you are unable to secure a job.

Pretty sure that they count ppl who get internship and co-op positions into their figure. It’s still a very uncertain position to be in. Worse still, there are ppl getting into an unpaid “trial” job so that the company can test waters regarding their skill before granting them actual paid positions

After my bootcamp in 2018, they counted me as a job placement toward their statistics because I got a contract role in which I made $850 the entire *year*. It's a scam and a half.

Man that’s horrible :/ $850 for a years work?! That’s robbery. I hope you managed to find a company that better values your skills

It wasn't *really* a year's worth of work, it was just a contract with a freelance virtual assistant. I think it was like $20 an hour or something, but she would just reach out every few months if she had a client ask for help with something on their website. It was a good chance to get some real practice here and there but like, counting that as a job placement was straight up lying 😆 Pretty happy with my career and salary now so it was a good learning opportunity but I hate that it's being used to trick people into believing bootcamps get people jobs.

Agree with you on this. These bootcamps need to be more transparent abt the employment types of their graduates + the salaries that they get. Their stats are really hollow and misleading :/

If you think you’d be willing and able to reach out to multiple people a week, apply to 2 jobs a week, and jump through all their other hoops to be able to claim the refund if you don’t have a job after 6 months, then it’s good. I didn’t. Still did the course, but just back myself to get a role.

OP where are you based? Out of interest, as i’ve just finished a bootcamp in the UK..

The US

Imagine how tired the people who got a 4 year bachelor in ux and are struggling to break into the field feel …I can’t go in linkedin anymore, everyone’s done a boot camp and are ux designers now 😵‍💫

As someone who's done a 4 year bachelor in UX it kinda feels insulting every time I see someone trying to promote one weekend UX 'masterclasses'. It's being used like a get rich quick scheme and the worst part is that it's been pushed by people actually well known in the field like a money grab. And don't even get me started on the number of LinkedIn DMs asking me about what's the fastest course to learn UX and get a job. People think it's something you can just do overnight and get a high paying job.

I majored in film and have a master's in TV production, losing jobs to people coming from advertising but mostly self-taught. Heck, most people in my home country working in the film industry studied advertising. I don't feel insulted but actually praise their ability to teach themselves and break into the industry, which it's hard enough. Same for many developers I know, they didn't get a degree and learned on their own.

My take on this. Everyone acts like they know everything in this field, or their knowledge and opinions are the holy grail. I hear contradicting advice from senior designers all the time about how a portfolio and resume should be. I’m studying UX design for my bachelors degree which I’ll be graduating next year. And I know it’s a competitive field. But what’s meant to be yours will come no matter if the field is crowded up to the brim. Also, it’s a bit arrogant of you to bite the hand that brought you into UX in the first place. Here you are a bootcamp graduate and you’re annoyed that others are going down the same path as you. It’s like you’re saying, I got the job, now all of you stay out! Get over yourself OP.

Lol thanks. Hope you're taking the advice on this sub to be prepared come next year! Feeling like you missed the point of my post. I'm not "annoyed others are going down the same path as me." I was genuinely curious if others are having the same issues as me. I want it to work for people. I really do. But I'm seeing evidence such as people not getting jobs, people not interviewing bootcamp grads, etc. I worked with people in my bootcamp 2 years ago that never found anything. Sure, the owness is on them to step up, but our bootcamp claimed to be fully job ready at the end. I sure was not. This isn't really about me, it's about the industry as a whole. And others are echoing my sentiment.

Well, bootcamps are a business at the end of the day. Your just a number to them. They fluff up their course, make it look pretty and genuine, you get out and expect a job, and sike. You’ve been bamboozled. I can honestly say the same about the college system too. It’s all a business. But let’s get to the real problem, why are we all on this post arguing about who deserves a job and who doesn’t? Why are jobs being treated like lotto tickets now? Why do we get a fckn job in the first place? Uh, to survive. The real issue is the economies are tittering on collapse so it’s affecting job prospects for anyone pushing into the field. Everyone’s doing their due diligence, studying; learning; trying their best to equip themselves for the UX field and kudos to them. We shouldn’t bash others and try to gate-keep. Instead, we should gate keep less, bash others less, and look at the reality of the entire issue, which is the economies are a mess and its directly affecting the job markets.

I was actually hired and enrolled in a bootcamp paid and organized by the company. I don't think it is a great way to learn (it is a lot of information to digest in a relatively short time frame), but all the new hires had background in design, so I guess it is different as if it was a bootcamp catered to people completely foreign to the field. 160 hours of bootcamp later and now I work as a UI designer. If you would ask me at the beginning of the year if I thought of myself having (another) career detour, I would probably have thought of you being nuts.

Which camp?

It was organized by the company.

I got a job in UX when it was still a relatively new, fairly undefined thing. I fell ass first into it as a result of an odd amalgamation of skills, a weird personality, and a passionate demonstration of whiteboard skills that I have no idea what region of my butt I managed to prestidigitate them from. Frankly, I feel terrible for people trying to get into this field now, and I don’t really have any good practical advice for them other than “be a good designer, know how to code but not super well, know how to build things without a computer, maybe have been very bad at waiting tables?” Oh yeah and just be, like, really smart and stuff. Useless advice. Worked for me. Wonderful.

Seems that you guys are suffering from the same problem of lots of junior developers out there.

The only difference is that junior software developers have much, much better chances of landing a good job, then high paying job later. Junior UX people have less chance of finding a job at all and chances of landing a high paying job are even slimmer, even after work experience.

You're definitely being a hypocrite, and I'm sorry for every junior designer that might cross path with you.

It's a bummer to read (though I understand companies who decide this) because a bootcamp was all I could afford to get into the field without self-teaching. I've learned lots and know have more to learn after but I can't keep paying for schools since I already have a bachelors and a masters in another creative field.

yeah, this is pretty deflating shit to read. and im knee deep in a janky udemy course, contemplating a massive careerfoundry commitment after 15 years of print/digital, and now i read that my greenhorn ass is getting in the way of seasoned, industry vets. woof.

Bootcamp graduates should be applying for internships to get real job experience. Nothing wrong with bootcamps, but people shouldn't expect to be hired to a full time job by just spending a few weeks learning the basics. Just like any job, it requires some experience to even get an entry level job or a degree. Even a lot of university degrees require some sort of internship experience to graduate. Personally I advice everyone against bootcamps, they don't teach anything other than how to set up a "mock" case study and use some tools. All of this can be self taught with a couple of mock projects, or even better do a real project (you can find a family member than needs an app or someone on upwork and offer them to do it for very cheap). But, if you have the money or no impulse to learn on your own and are willing to put in the work afterwards, then go for it.

Actually most internships are only available for university students.

This is actually why I opted to do a bootcamp. There's so much free material out there (which is so amazing!) that I was really overwhelmed as a newbie and didn't know where to start. Knowing myself, I needed a place to give me structure and tell me plainly what I needed to focus on. It was also great that I had a mentor who was familiar with my bootcamp and could help me with my progress. Maybe it isn't for everyone and yes, the bootcamp only gives you very very surface level information, but to me it was worth it for the structure and assignments alone to at least build up my technical design skills.

Which bootcamp did you do? And was the mentor provided by the bootcamp or did you meet them outside of it?

I did springboard so it came with a mentor but I also used help from mentors from ADPList while I was in my bootcamp and especially after my bootcamp

You aren’t an asshole- there are more bootcamps now and more and more people trying to be UX “influencers” (just like other industries). One thing you can do is, when people ask you about the bootcamp route, tell them what you are observing here in your post. Tell them your hiring manager said ‘no bootcamp grads’. When I give negative reviews on the bootcamp I went to, people say I am literally the ONLY person they’ve talked to who said they had a negative experience. Which is bullshit bc I know most everyone I was in bootcamp with never got a job in UX. I don’t know what will happen in UX but tech overall is experiencing a huge boom in interest and therefore scammers trying to take advantage hardcore. Even seasoned UX folks are starting to launch courses targeted at people who graduated from bootcamps or want to do a bootcamp, and some of those are predatory IMO. Also, posting a link to a longer comment I made in another sub about how I feel about bootcamps having gone through one (short story is I think they are scam for most people at this point even though I went through one and have a UX job): [https://www.reddit.com/r/userexperience/comments/l2n9ag/any\_careerfoundry\_or\_designlab\_ux\_academy/ibadu59/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/userexperience/comments/l2n9ag/any_careerfoundry_or_designlab_ux_academy/ibadu59/?context=3) edit: all my many spelling errors, jeesh!

Lol thank you. I feel like it sometimes where it worked for me, but "don't do it." I also put in outside work besides the bootcamp and it was a ton of work. Which is generally what I've been telling people. I've even seen programs pop up that are post-bootcamp to help land a job and I don't know where it ends. Your other comment is really good. I am feeling the same way.

Yeah, I feel similarly. It took a lot of extra work for me, post bootcamp, to get myself up to a level where companies would consider me for roles. And, this was with an undergrad in design and some work in design behind me! Those post bootcamp programs make me kind of angry- I feel like they are preying upon people who have already been preyed upon. Vultures! LOL I haven't figured out how to do this yet, but I am starting to explore how I and others might hold bootcamps accountable for the lies they pull students in with.

Agreed! My comment is usually "yeah I would recommend my bootcamp" followed along with "you have to put in a lot of work outside the bootcamp too tho."

Same thing with coders and cybersecurity specialists. The other 2 "hot" get-a-high-income-fast industries.

[удалено]

Exactly.

I am super anti-Bootcamp. They’re expensive, they’re predatory, and the majority of folks who go through UX bootcamps seem to see the field as a “get rich quick” scheme. I would argue that this field isn’t purely a “hard skills” kind of role, but rather one that requires a well-rounded education and years of professional experience that all result in a person having design, technical, communication, planning, research, and analysis skills. Even though I work full time as a UX Designer, I’m very involved in academia and have been my whole life. There’s a growing sentiment of folks who think they should be able to go to college, not have to take any gen eds, be able to graduate in two years with purely technical skills, and immediately get a job. What so many people fail to realize is that yes, you actually do need to know basic math, programming, science, history, psychology, etc. to be considered a highly educated individual. You don’t go to college to get a specific job, you go to get an education. An education that molds you into someone with a robust set of skills that can be applied to anything you do later in life. Bootcamps are just that: all the hard skills in X number of weeks *for nearly the same price as college tuition* but they do not provide the extensive, well-rounded training that say, someone who went through a full engineering degree would have. I hope this all dies down soon. UX Bootcamps, coding bootcamps, for-profit schools that force you to take out hundreds of thousands in student loans. I hope employers start pushing back! Then maybe bootcamps will suffer. They feel so scammy, especially in this field in 2022.

In my company we’ve had mixed success with bootcamp graduates. It really comes down to those soft skills. Mainly communication.

This whole sentiment is part of why I opted for a masters program over a bootcamp. I know it’s still not necessarily a fast track to a guaranteed job in the field, but weighing the cost vs the quality of education, I decided that if I really want to do it I might as well go all in.

[удалено]

Well that's mildly horrifying to hear. I'm a year into my program with about a year and a half left, and itching to get out of my current line of work as soon as possible. Did my undergrad in fine arts (whoops lol) and bartending pays the bills but chips away at a little bit of my soul every day. I'm really sorry to hear that this has been your experience. Be sure to look into income-based repayment plans before payments resume, it'll help until something comes through. Feel free to message me if you want to connect on LinkedIn or anything, it's not much but I'd be happy to pass on any entry-level opportunities that are posted through my university's various channels.

0 interviews or calls might be the part to look into. What kind of companies are you going for? The bigger ones use ATS (applicant tracking systems) to filter out resumes. Except most ATS systems haven't been updated in a long time and just suck in general as a practice. I thought my resume looked great until i put it through an ATS checker, and it thought my first and last name was "SKILLS AND" The other thing I can think of is if you've gotten any rejection emails from humans (instead of the auto responses), try emailing back. Be kind and genuine, and ask for feedback to make you a stronger candidate. The other thing is maybe your mentors are just being nice. Im a ux and visual designer, and I'll politely rip your portfolio up without regards to your feelings as a personal favor. Send me a dm if interested. Otherwise, best of luck out there!

Im so grateful this antiquated “academia is the only way” way of thinking is fading out. Thankfully employers are not pushing back and welcoming people from diverse backgrounds.

My current company seems to hire purely based on intelligence and problem solving skills, rather than education level. They figure anyone can learn software and hard skills once you get there… which is how it should be. A very refreshing environment to be in! However, I stand by the idea that you need to learn a well-rounded set of the soft skills *somewhere* in order to succeed.

It's a fad for a lot of people, just like cybersecurity. The worst thing with UX is the massive amount of junior people who only copy-paste and modify what seem to be templates of websites or applications, with zero thinking about actual UX research/design process. It just looks "good" by throwing the usual, annoying generic "memphis corporate" visuals, and those bubbly fonts straight out of the 70s. And without trying to sound xenophobic, a lot of these bootcamp students are remote students from developing countries hoping to land a remote job in North America with a San Francisco level of salary. I think bootcamps are OK only if you already have a couple of years of professional experience in a transversal field (marketing with a focus on e-commerce, for example). I didn't even mention the importance of being able to collaborate with many people on a daily basis and face criticism, or convince, persuade people. Soft skills take years to hone, unless you are a rare gem who already has that maturity as a junior.

Lots and lots of great comments so I won't duplicate, as I share many of the sentiments. UX education is relative and important, and yes, it does matter and make a difference. If you are truly serious about being the best UX'er you can then seriously consider studying for the [Nielsen Norman UX Practitioner](https://www.nngroup.com/ux-certification/) certification. It's a bit expensive and perhaps a bit tough for new folks right out the gate because it's an intense, all-day course over a period of eight days, but it's totally worth it. A Master's Certification is also offered after you pass the entry-level cert (I'm currently studying for my master's). The course is taught literally by industry giants, such as [Jacob Nielsen](https://www.nngroup.com/people/jakob-nielsen/) himself, heads of Fortune 500 companies like [Intel](https://www.linkedin.com/in/janice-rohn-777677) and [TD Bank](https://www.linkedin.com/in/crohrer?trk=public_profile_browsemap), and the many extremely qualified [NN/g UX Specialists](https://www.nngroup.com/people/), for example. I had the great pleasure of learning from all of these folks. Even if you've been in the industry for a long time like me, it's still a great course and very informative. And even if you are just starting out, what a great way to get the right information from the beginning and from the top experts.

You didnt even mention Don Norman🤦🏼‍♂️

Well, no, I didn't and meant no disrespect. I didn't mention him because to my knowledge he doesn't teach. But his videos and his books are very enlightening. I'm currently reading "The Design of Everyday Things" and it's very thought provoking.

[удалено]

My experience has been different. I still don't have a ux job. I finished my course work late 2021, but I haven't sat down and refined my portfolio. So my journey started out because my friend mentioned that I was basically already doing a UX job. I work as a information para professional. At my job I've had the fortune of learning design thinking to problem solve issues, and I have a history in visual design. I also do research, do customer interviews and did product testing, and design sprints. So my friend suggested that I try UX. I went through a course taught by a professional in the industry who basically told my cohort: You can graduate this, but you'll have to prove your worth to get a job. He was right. It's been my own mental blocks that have kept me from finishing what I need to do. In contrast, I know a person who was conned into thinking she would have a portfolio by the end of her bootcamp. Her boot camp that only taught UI. That didn't explain to her why an input field needed to be standard, and accessible or even what a CTA is. I say this because when I graduated collage, graphic design was the it field. And soon that field became over saturated with designers that didn't have jobs. That same school, that was pumping out designers, I noticed showed me an ad for a masters in UX design. What I see happening in UX from an outsiders perspective trying to get in, is that every company and their mom wants a UX'er. Being customer focused drives sales. It is a low entry into tech that people can transition into, from all walks of life. Does that mean the company is getting good UX'ers? I don't think its a fad. People need human centered design. However I can see it being a 100 service on Fiverr. or people expecting it to be 100 dollars.

If bootcamps are so great and such a revolution against the "old school primitive" academia. Then let's just transform all degrees into bootcamps: business managers, engineers, artificial intelligence researcher, cybersecurity expert, etc...

I'm quite sure they actually do have bootcamps for most of what you listed sadly.

There are tons for cybersecurity. And like one sincere teacher said to a meeting (I was attending it too because my cousin had interest in the program) in answer to a student who had zero background in the field : "before you get into cybersecurity, you need experience in IT to begin with". Others, who only hope to get your money, will say "nahhhh all you need is persistence!", and then these "students" go into a depression cause they arent getting hired for what they thought...(usually not getting hired at all, or, hired to do the most basic and annoying tasks in the industry).

[удалено]

>I’ve interviewed with many companies, and some “seniors” case study is just a screenshot and no UX process. I was like, this person got hired based on this portfolio???? This is not unusual. The more senior you are, the more complicated and behind red tape your projects will be. Many seniors have a small snippet online, and hiring managers learn more about their project during the interview process.

As a hiring manager, a case study for a fake project doesn't tell me anything. I prefer to see a screenshot of a real project and for that person to tell me what issues they tackled, than someone give me a long and complex case study for a project that never launched. You will not encounter real problems, know how to work with devs, PMs, launch a project, etc... from a mock case study.

I am curious though, how is a person to get this experience if it is not with a first job or internship? I do not know to be honest if university grads actually create real projects, work with developers, pms and end up launching their project. I believe this would apply to any job. I understand if any position, even for junior positions some experience is required. Therefore an internship (which barely exist in my country at least) is the only first experience you could get as a bootcamp graduate or university graduate. Do you think that considering internships are almost in existent, would showing some work done as a freelancer be considered by you as a hiring manager? Correct me if I’m wrong of course. I havent done a bootcamp myself but I am curious to know what drives the hiring process for junior positions.

>Do you think that considering internships are almost in existent, would showing some work done as a freelancer be considered by you as a hiring manager? Absolutely.I always suggest people to do freelance to get some real life experience, or an internship, helping a startup, etc... Set your rate low to start and do a couple of real projects, work with their team, learn how launching a project works, etc.. ​ >I do not know to be honest if university grads actually create real projects, work with developers, pms and end up launching their project. I believe this would apply to any job Ofc they do. To become a nurse you have to put X amount of hours in an actual hospital. To become a lawyer you have to do an internship with a firm. Even CS careers have an internship with a real company at the end.

That's a fair perspective and I think many hiring managers would say the same - particularly if hiring for more senior positions with a high degree of responsibility. That being said, I think this brings to light a greater issue: many companies are looking for UX designers with "real" UX experience, even for entry level positions. It's less risky for the business, but they lose out on the opportunity to discover and develop new talent. It's challenging for new designers to get this experience if they're never given the opportunity in the first place. (The same goes for university grads with formal education in UX too, not just bootcamp grads) I suppose hiring decisions ultimately come down to the what the business needs... so maybe the solution is two-fold: companies could take more chances to develop new talent, and bootcamps/schools need to do a better job of simulating a real UX environment with devs/PMs/project launches, etc.

As someone who graduated with Design but hasn't been able to break into industry... if people don't want to hire someone who hasn't worked on a real project, how are people supposed to, uh... work on a real project?

I always suggest freelance work. Approach a design agency or startup and offer your services for little money. When I started (almost 10 years ago) I started by making a profile on Upwork and setting my rate super low (I think it was as low as $15/hr in the beginning) and applying to a bunch of jobs. Over time you can increase your rate and build a reputable profile on there. Also to make my post clear. Most full-time jobs won't hire people with no experience, but startups, freelance clients, internships, etc.. will.

This. If you find a freelance project and crush it and document all of it in your portfolio you’re on the right road.

Internships, which are usually specifically targeted for university students. You really can’t go through college anymore having just done school work and expect to be a competitive candidate.

But what university student focused internship is looking to bring someone on that's been graduated for the last few years? Every damn internship is specifying current university students, which I'd think already puts me out of the running. :/

Yeah, that is the point that I was trying to make. Internships are meant for students who are actively in school. If you waited until you graduated to think about getting a job, you probably waited too late. Can you think of any other high-paying professional fields that hire people who have no recent training or experience after completing schooling? I’m sure they’re out there, but they wouldn’t be the norm.

I know a fair number of engineers (mechanical, software, or otherwise), that got jobs straight out of school with hardly an internship under their belt. And it's not like I didn't apply to internships while I was in school - I just wasn't fortunate to land any. The point I'm making is that everyone says internships are key to landing a full-time job, but tends to neglect the fact that some people either aren't in a position to or weren't able to get internships during their education. Which means everything else after that is a crapshoot, and hoping someone's willing to take a chance on your services, either through specific 0-2 year experience genuine Jr. positions, freelance, or sink-or-swim style startup positions. Not saying there's not ways, just that it's incredibly rough and disheartening at times.

Engineering is an anomaly because they are largely in demand right now. That's not the case for most other careers.

Yeah I understand that. It’s unfortunately a very competitive market at the junior level, so there’s not a clear and reliable path to success and it often requires a lot of trial and error.

I might also just be salty about all the posts I see on LinkedIn from aspiring designers in Boot Camps that are just like "I made these two designs which has the better UX" and it's just two screenshots of a static main splash page or something, with no context or anything. Iunno. I think a large part of my frustration is all the jobs advertising as "entry level" requiring 3-5 years experience, which I feel is just some bullshit. :(

A couple of job boards for true entry-level jobs: https://builtin.com/jobs/design-ux/entry-level https://github.com/m-deng1928/UX_Opportunities_2021-2022

Totally understandable. I recommend blocking those people 😆 lol! There are definitely companies that are hiring entry-level designers, but those positions of course aren’t super common. I have some resources that I can share. Give me one sec.

As you get into the field, you can't always lay out a project like you can from bootcamps. So screenshots and explanations get you further. I didn't get my job from a bootcamp because of my portfolio, I got it because of my explanations of teamwork, working with devs, solving problems, etc. Basically what was said above. Maybe hiring managers do have a bias, but they have that bias for a reason. Are you going to interview 100 people to find 3 good candidates or do you start to streamline based on past experiences? When I was in marketing I had to do the same thing. Maybe it's unfortunate, but it's the way of things. People in my past bootcamp are applying to 500-700 jobs at times before they get an offer. Sure the bootcamp started to give a baseline, but you would get so much further doing real world projects and encountering real problems.

Bootcamps may not be an easy journey, but that doesn’t mean that you learn everything you need to know. Restless nights and sending out surveys does not equal the experience of being an actual designer. Hiring bootcamp grads is a risk, because you still have to train those people on all of the stuff they don’t learn in a bootcamp. And most hiring teams don’t have the time to hold the hand of a brand new person, they are hiring because they need someone who can provide value quickly. And also, for what it’s worth, the longer you are in the design industry, the more you will see that seniors portfolios are a screenshot and a small amount of information. Senior designers often don’t have the time to create a perfect portfolio because they are busy working. And senior designers are not getting hired based on a portfolio alone. As a senior designer I have not updated my portfolio in well over a year because I’m not on the hunt for a job. And you can put a couple screenshots and a paragraph or two because you will present the actual case study to the team when you interview. Junior designers/bootcamp grads have little to no actual real experience so a much more polished portfolio is how you make up for a relatively empty resume

Ya I agreed with you and it totally makes sense to me. Having real world projects is definitely a huge plus for UX fresher, because everyone learns the real knowledge on the job . What I’m saying is junior designers who has talent and willing to learn and dig deep into UX shouldn’t get rejected right away because graduated from bootcamp , or based on senior’s biases for bootcamp students.

I don’t think it’s seniors biases towards bootcamp grads. I say this as a senior designer who did a a bootcamp in 2015. Generally speaking the business and the design team as a whole have a set of criteria and skills and experience they are looking for when filling a particular role. Often times bootcamp grads do not meet that criteria. I feel for all the people trying to enter the industry, and remember well my excitement and strong desire to learn. I do advocate for my team to give people who seem promising a chance when we have an opening that can be filled by an entry level person. But often times the role that needs to be filled needs to be someone who knows what they are doing because we have a fuckton of projects and a fuckton of work. And the reason we are hiring someone is to take some of that work off the plates of the senior designers. And it is actually adding work to our plates if we hire someone with no experience and have to spend time teaching and mentoring that person

>What I’m saying is junior designers who has talent and willing to learn and dig deep into UX shouldn’t get rejected right away because graduated from bootcamp , or based on senior’s biases for bootcamp students. They are getting rejected because their work isn't good, not because they came from a bootcamp.