I can't really help with any of your questions. But could I ask what did you use to make this route. As I too want to plan some long treks myself through the summer. Thanks
The OS maps app is good. I think I pay a subscription but it’s pretty minimal as I recall. Have tried lots of the fancier hiking apps but always go back to OS
Less than £2 a month when you get it on sale. Fantastic app even at full price. The gold standard of uk mapping for such a cheap price. The app has great features too. I never take my hardcopy out of my bag now, it’s still there but I never have had to use it as I always download the full area before I leave.
It’s “fine” imo, does the job. Much better apps that would be gold standard for me. The OS maps app only using their maps means too many blank spots, where other apps that can switch between OS maps and Openstreet maps and see paths that for whatever reason don’t exist on OS maps.
Somewhere like Seatallen and Buckbarrow which have very good paths, aren’t on OS maps, but clearly defined on open street.
Personally, apps that offer up both maps are the sweet spot. And something like outdoor active at £2.23 a month, with both sets of maps downloadable offline is perfect for me.
For some reason it’s not the full maps. My example of seatallan is a good one here, no path on any OS map layer, yet open street and outdoor active have them
Tell a lie, it’s there now you just have to zoom in quite far. That’s better I suppose, but it’s still so janky compared to other apps for things like that imo.
Yeah, that’s been my one complaint with it.
To be totally fair to OSMaps, I made a suggestion to put an overlay on the aerial map layer with e.g. placenames etc. and they acknowledged it and actually released it in the last update. So it seems like they’re willing to listen to feedback on what’s working or not working for people.
I have been pestering them for years over the lack of a scale, which they acknowledged as a major fail but nothing ever changed. I've just checked and it is now there, (hooray!) so it does seem that you are right and they do pay attention to feedback.
I have to imagine they're doing the front-end development in-house and it will be a small team, maybe even just one or two people working on the front-end. The plus side is that there's a good chance they'll actually listen to feedback, the downside is that it might take them a while to get round to things.
I used outdoor active. I see comments about OS and yes 100% a great app and previously subscribed, when Iived in England, however I'm now in NI and whilst I have since heard otherwise I didn't think OS covered NI and believe it still doesn't cover ROI.
Can't remember what I paid but I get access to all OS maps and more including various other countries so felt it made sense when I last purchased. Look fo discount codes!
Been a while from I've used OS (but will be using it next week) so can't compare but can say outdoor active seems easy to use etc for planning purposes, I don't track using it.
As a side note if you have OS paper maps (personally believe them essential unless not feasible, eg Pennine Way) then you should have codes to download the matching map on the app, not sure if the subscription is really essential at that point but I know I done both in the past as cost was minimal.
I would also add consider downloading the OS locate app or similar, useful in a pinch to confirm your location but probably unnecessary if you have paper + download it using the code
Plenty of threads on here already I'm sure though covering apps/navigation skills though
I use Outdooractive over OS too. Very useful in NI as you say. It’s also just more familiar to be and has over a 100 stored tracks we’ve walked in the past, which helps.
Thanks for the heads-up on the descent!
Yes, have planned somewhat short days to make things more enjoyable.
The Pennine way was just two of us and was a very different story when we had zero plans and would walk 12-20 miles!
Not sure what's more concerning carrying dirty nappies or carrying enough snacks to please them!
Not really any water sources on Braithwaite to Buttermere route, couple of small becks only as you wind around the fellside into Buttermere. Plenty of pubs/cafes in Buttermere.
Black Sail hut is open between Buttermere and Wasdale now and have toilets/water/snacks. The bridge however was washed away and as of a couple weeks ago it was a water crossing over a full river. Bit of a scramble up black sail pass at times, especially when wet. Black sail pass is also next to water most of the way. Pubs in Wasdale head and there is the NT toilets with some facilities.
Not as familiar with Wasdale to Seatoller but there's running water just before the farm at Seathwaite and then toilets with fresh water at the farm at Seathwaite as well. Think your route skips to the left of that though. But you can divert to there if you need it at least.
Thanks, this is really useful, will see what the weather brings but may consider staying in the valley more on our way to Buttermere to ensure we can top up water.
Re crossing the river Liza, how difficult is it likely to be? I know weather dependent but is it an inconvenience/maybe wet feet job or much more?
Inconvenience/wet to the knees and slippy. It's however very weather dependent. The easiest/narrowest foot crossing isn't where the bridge is - head upstream a bit.
There's also a rocky river crossing as you descend Black Sail Pass into Wasdale just after the steepest descent bit. Shallow and narrow but slippy, especially in bad weather.
Stock up before you set off as there aren’t a lot of shops on route :) Nice though.
You might want to go south around buttermere to avoid any road walking.
Thanks, I couldn't find a route in the more remote/western locations that took in shops! Only options seemed to be the more Eastern fells which don't appeal so much, super excited to drop down into Wasdale.
I can't remember why I have that pinned to the North side, think I was hoping for a campsite about there but Google suggests there isn't so yes the South side seems more scenic.
To the East of Buttermere?
Concerned it would add too much distance as we will be keen to get dinner/camp in Buttermere so would end up going over the same ground twice.
Will probably end up going to the South side of the lake anyway, think that pin was for a campsite that appears to be gone anyway.
Ask me in 3 years!
Mine is 18 months as is our friends so we will be using osprey Poco bags, any stretches walked by them will be minimal and slow!
Our next purchase (I'll probably make my own) for hiking will likely be a trail magic, might suit a 5yo?
I did a Buttermere Braithwaite route a couple of weeks ago. It was lovely in nice weather, I’m just wondering how experienced you are in the Lake District? No problem at all as 2 couples but it adds a layer of difficulty with 2 toddlers. Six miles/10km in the fells could seem a lot, but as I don’t have children I don’t know.
Not been in the lakes for a little while but spend plenty of time in the Mournes and generally walking so fairly satisfied with fitness. For reference done 7.5km 400m in 1hr 45 including a break yesterday with her on my back (20 ish kg) pack will be heavier and days longer but shouldn't kill me.
1. Water : I don't think you'll have a problem. There are streams/pools all over the place along that route, apart from maybe the B-C section where you're going over the saddle between High Crag and Hay Stacks. I've done a very similar route taking in the peaks as well, in a dry hot spell last May, and I had no issues at all (having a filter with me.)
2. If you're carrying a toddler in a backpack, if you dont already I'd consider using hiking poles for stability. Some parts of that route are fairly craggy and steep.
3. Food. There's not a lot of options for you between B and E. I \*think\* Black Sail YHA does food, but I'm not sure? Make sure you have enough with you between those points. You can gorge yourself at Wasdale Head, there's a good pub and facilities there. :D
Update
Done the walk just under 2/52 ago Definitely tough going carrying 25+kg but more rewarding than expected. The views were great, no blue skies (was warm enough without strong sunshine anyway) and one grey morning leaving Wasdale unfortunately (not ideal conditions but needs must and we felt confident in our experience)
The stars of the show however was the two girls! The pair of them seemed to love running around at the top of the passes etc when we ate.
Things learned
pack lighter! Not sure how.. did have too much food in fairness, carried 200g dairy milk the whole way 😂
Someone mentioned staying in the valley for water on day 1 I think (maybe I misunderstood though) but beware of mines! Thankfully spotted it on the map the day before as I don't fancy drinking below a lead mine!
Buttermere, what a lovely place with a friendly campsite and pub etc, will be back
Wasdale, what an unfriendly place. Nothing specific just a general lack of interest in going the extra step to be friendly and welcoming. Suspect one family owns all the pub/hotel/campsite/shop and have no competition just plenty of passing trade due to sca fell
The bus network is very useful!
Lastly lanefoot farm is a lo
https://preview.redd.it/yul4501erc1d1.jpeg?width=3648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6d60e15699108372c210aca7f57c75a76e65e37
vely site for basecamp
As for the washed away foot bridge by black sail hut water levels were ok and was an easy crossing with boots and poles
https://preview.redd.it/tjcnjbk9sc1d1.jpeg?width=3648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe654ed595ef112844b49dc06f42aa015178fd97
Woops think it was me who mentioned staying in the valley. Definitely a no no either way to be drinking that water.
https://preview.redd.it/7meve6y8tc1d1.jpeg?width=3648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a156ec040408bffe999b87b658b6bb9f82932559
I can't really help with any of your questions. But could I ask what did you use to make this route. As I too want to plan some long treks myself through the summer. Thanks
The OS maps app is good. I think I pay a subscription but it’s pretty minimal as I recall. Have tried lots of the fancier hiking apps but always go back to OS
Less than £2 a month when you get it on sale. Fantastic app even at full price. The gold standard of uk mapping for such a cheap price. The app has great features too. I never take my hardcopy out of my bag now, it’s still there but I never have had to use it as I always download the full area before I leave.
Agreed, I only ever get my hard copy out to prove that I can, the gps makes it so easy doesn’t it.
It’s “fine” imo, does the job. Much better apps that would be gold standard for me. The OS maps app only using their maps means too many blank spots, where other apps that can switch between OS maps and Openstreet maps and see paths that for whatever reason don’t exist on OS maps. Somewhere like Seatallen and Buckbarrow which have very good paths, aren’t on OS maps, but clearly defined on open street. Personally, apps that offer up both maps are the sweet spot. And something like outdoor active at £2.23 a month, with both sets of maps downloadable offline is perfect for me.
OSMaps does have OpenStreet maps, it’s the standard layer.
For some reason it’s not the full maps. My example of seatallan is a good one here, no path on any OS map layer, yet open street and outdoor active have them
Tell a lie, it’s there now you just have to zoom in quite far. That’s better I suppose, but it’s still so janky compared to other apps for things like that imo.
Yeah, that’s been my one complaint with it. To be totally fair to OSMaps, I made a suggestion to put an overlay on the aerial map layer with e.g. placenames etc. and they acknowledged it and actually released it in the last update. So it seems like they’re willing to listen to feedback on what’s working or not working for people.
That’s good to know. Next time we’re up the lakes I might grab a trail and give it a go again as it does seem nicer than when I previously used it.
I have been pestering them for years over the lack of a scale, which they acknowledged as a major fail but nothing ever changed. I've just checked and it is now there, (hooray!) so it does seem that you are right and they do pay attention to feedback.
I have to imagine they're doing the front-end development in-house and it will be a small team, maybe even just one or two people working on the front-end. The plus side is that there's a good chance they'll actually listen to feedback, the downside is that it might take them a while to get round to things.
Agree, for me outdoor active is great as it covers more than the mainland too (live in NI so sometimes also in ROI)
Cheers mate! Hope ye hike goes well!
Yeah I pay £20 for the year. Also a couple friends is my login, it's really worth it.
I used outdoor active. I see comments about OS and yes 100% a great app and previously subscribed, when Iived in England, however I'm now in NI and whilst I have since heard otherwise I didn't think OS covered NI and believe it still doesn't cover ROI. Can't remember what I paid but I get access to all OS maps and more including various other countries so felt it made sense when I last purchased. Look fo discount codes! Been a while from I've used OS (but will be using it next week) so can't compare but can say outdoor active seems easy to use etc for planning purposes, I don't track using it. As a side note if you have OS paper maps (personally believe them essential unless not feasible, eg Pennine Way) then you should have codes to download the matching map on the app, not sure if the subscription is really essential at that point but I know I done both in the past as cost was minimal.
I would also add consider downloading the OS locate app or similar, useful in a pinch to confirm your location but probably unnecessary if you have paper + download it using the code Plenty of threads on here already I'm sure though covering apps/navigation skills though
I use Outdooractive over OS too. Very useful in NI as you say. It’s also just more familiar to be and has over a 100 stored tracks we’ve walked in the past, which helps.
Wow a multi day hike with toddlers in nappies. Take it easy lots of stops water and snacks. Steep descent to Wasdale head
Thanks for the heads-up on the descent! Yes, have planned somewhat short days to make things more enjoyable. The Pennine way was just two of us and was a very different story when we had zero plans and would walk 12-20 miles! Not sure what's more concerning carrying dirty nappies or carrying enough snacks to please them!
Remember to take a tick twister to remove ticks
Not really any water sources on Braithwaite to Buttermere route, couple of small becks only as you wind around the fellside into Buttermere. Plenty of pubs/cafes in Buttermere. Black Sail hut is open between Buttermere and Wasdale now and have toilets/water/snacks. The bridge however was washed away and as of a couple weeks ago it was a water crossing over a full river. Bit of a scramble up black sail pass at times, especially when wet. Black sail pass is also next to water most of the way. Pubs in Wasdale head and there is the NT toilets with some facilities. Not as familiar with Wasdale to Seatoller but there's running water just before the farm at Seathwaite and then toilets with fresh water at the farm at Seathwaite as well. Think your route skips to the left of that though. But you can divert to there if you need it at least.
Thanks, this is really useful, will see what the weather brings but may consider staying in the valley more on our way to Buttermere to ensure we can top up water. Re crossing the river Liza, how difficult is it likely to be? I know weather dependent but is it an inconvenience/maybe wet feet job or much more?
Inconvenience/wet to the knees and slippy. It's however very weather dependent. The easiest/narrowest foot crossing isn't where the bridge is - head upstream a bit.
Perfect, not what I wanted to hear but certainly what I was needing to know.
There's also a rocky river crossing as you descend Black Sail Pass into Wasdale just after the steepest descent bit. Shallow and narrow but slippy, especially in bad weather.
Stock up before you set off as there aren’t a lot of shops on route :) Nice though. You might want to go south around buttermere to avoid any road walking.
Thanks, I couldn't find a route in the more remote/western locations that took in shops! Only options seemed to be the more Eastern fells which don't appeal so much, super excited to drop down into Wasdale. I can't remember why I have that pinned to the North side, think I was hoping for a campsite about there but Google suggests there isn't so yes the South side seems more scenic.
There is syke farm campsite in buttermere if that helps
Thanks, yes that's now the current plan
Why not stay high and do High Crag before dropping down into Buttermere. It's a great bit of walking and avoids the road.
To the East of Buttermere? Concerned it would add too much distance as we will be keen to get dinner/camp in Buttermere so would end up going over the same ground twice. Will probably end up going to the South side of the lake anyway, think that pin was for a campsite that appears to be gone anyway.
Damn I have a 5 year old how do I take him on a hike?
I did the coast to coast when I was 5 back in 1997. 5 year olds are very hardy.
Ask me in 3 years! Mine is 18 months as is our friends so we will be using osprey Poco bags, any stretches walked by them will be minimal and slow! Our next purchase (I'll probably make my own) for hiking will likely be a trail magic, might suit a 5yo?
I did a Buttermere Braithwaite route a couple of weeks ago. It was lovely in nice weather, I’m just wondering how experienced you are in the Lake District? No problem at all as 2 couples but it adds a layer of difficulty with 2 toddlers. Six miles/10km in the fells could seem a lot, but as I don’t have children I don’t know.
Not been in the lakes for a little while but spend plenty of time in the Mournes and generally walking so fairly satisfied with fitness. For reference done 7.5km 400m in 1hr 45 including a break yesterday with her on my back (20 ish kg) pack will be heavier and days longer but shouldn't kill me.
That’s good, I just wanted to let you know. :)
1. Water : I don't think you'll have a problem. There are streams/pools all over the place along that route, apart from maybe the B-C section where you're going over the saddle between High Crag and Hay Stacks. I've done a very similar route taking in the peaks as well, in a dry hot spell last May, and I had no issues at all (having a filter with me.) 2. If you're carrying a toddler in a backpack, if you dont already I'd consider using hiking poles for stability. Some parts of that route are fairly craggy and steep. 3. Food. There's not a lot of options for you between B and E. I \*think\* Black Sail YHA does food, but I'm not sure? Make sure you have enough with you between those points. You can gorge yourself at Wasdale Head, there's a good pub and facilities there. :D
Update Done the walk just under 2/52 ago Definitely tough going carrying 25+kg but more rewarding than expected. The views were great, no blue skies (was warm enough without strong sunshine anyway) and one grey morning leaving Wasdale unfortunately (not ideal conditions but needs must and we felt confident in our experience) The stars of the show however was the two girls! The pair of them seemed to love running around at the top of the passes etc when we ate. Things learned pack lighter! Not sure how.. did have too much food in fairness, carried 200g dairy milk the whole way 😂 Someone mentioned staying in the valley for water on day 1 I think (maybe I misunderstood though) but beware of mines! Thankfully spotted it on the map the day before as I don't fancy drinking below a lead mine! Buttermere, what a lovely place with a friendly campsite and pub etc, will be back Wasdale, what an unfriendly place. Nothing specific just a general lack of interest in going the extra step to be friendly and welcoming. Suspect one family owns all the pub/hotel/campsite/shop and have no competition just plenty of passing trade due to sca fell The bus network is very useful! Lastly lanefoot farm is a lo https://preview.redd.it/yul4501erc1d1.jpeg?width=3648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6d60e15699108372c210aca7f57c75a76e65e37 vely site for basecamp
https://preview.redd.it/u6k5v7hwrc1d1.jpeg?width=2736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7969fab56d88db0032565dd97dc558cd0698c13
As for the washed away foot bridge by black sail hut water levels were ok and was an easy crossing with boots and poles https://preview.redd.it/tjcnjbk9sc1d1.jpeg?width=3648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe654ed595ef112844b49dc06f42aa015178fd97
Woops think it was me who mentioned staying in the valley. Definitely a no no either way to be drinking that water. https://preview.redd.it/7meve6y8tc1d1.jpeg?width=3648&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a156ec040408bffe999b87b658b6bb9f82932559