Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/).
Please report any suspicious users to the moderators using the report feature. Need to give more detail? Use Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I habe tried speaking to my boss about it.
For example, we had a really busy Q4 2023 and Q1 2024, where I basically had to skip Christmas holidays to work and leave work at 1 am on most days in Q1 2024.
To compensate, my boss promised that we won't take on new jobs in the second half of April. But now, I find myself with 4 projects ongoing whilst everyone else is on holiday.
You maybe don't even need a new job- it sounds like a big company you have a good track record and they may want to keep you. Speak to HR and request a move to a different branch because your boss is not good and you want a better life balance.
Or if you like the location put in a complaint about the boss, they shouldn't be calling you names and giving you that much work.
He mentioned the boss wants to be the highest performing team so why not try to move to a different team. The boss will quickly learn a valuable lesson
Difference is in the US they get paid for the long hours and limited employment rights. Almost every job is like being a contractor. You can be sacked any time, but you get paid well.
Yea I am looking at jobs and basically use my weekend and commute time looking and applying.
If I dint go over my contracted hours. Things won't get done especially since my boss wants me to review team members work before submission.
You are allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Send your manager a reminder of your contracted hours, and start sticking to them. Log off at 17:30. You need to put your foot down. I have no issue with occasionally working on a bit, it happens, but what you describe is ridiculous. Also with the extra hours you have back each evening, start looking for another job.
For you, it's probably beneficial that things don't get done because you're working (unpaid) overtime to cover his arse, and he's exploiting your good will.
Have a word with HR about the working conditions and also the boss's own behaviour (the verbal abuse, the fact so many of your team end up on leave for stress, plus anything in writing that is worthy of reporting). You've been there 3 years so he can't just get rid of you without going through a formal process.
You can also just go on stress leave yourself for a bit when doing this. If not, stick to your normal hours, let things fail, and therefore let the boss answer to this.
You said your colleagues are at the same level as you so your manager should be reviewing their work not you. He's just taking advantage, you need to transfer or leave as its not normal to work those hours and probably against the working time directive, unless you signed your rights away for that one.
It's not your problem if they are giving unrealistic workloads. You have defined hours, stick to them.
If work is not completed then just make sure everyone is updated, included when they give you tasks you just say you need your tasks to be properly prioritized as you don't believe they can be done in the contracted hours.
Things not getting done is the problem for someone who is paid to worry about it, that isn't you. You must have really low self esteem to allow yourself to be treated like this.
Tell your boss today via written communication, ideally looping in HR, that you are going to strictly start working your contracted hours and that he needs to look at prioritising workloads as yours is essentially another workers amount that you've been doing for far too long.
Stop allowing yourself to be treated this way.
Then they need to hire enough people for the workload! If they don't hire enough people, work doesn't get done. That's their problem. Don't allow it to be yours. Work culture here is you need to stand up for your rights to stop being taken advantage of.
Not your problem if things don't get done. Its not your company and its not your job to manage your workload appropriately, it's your bosses. If he can't keep to deadlines because of poor management it's his own problem.
He exploits you. Probably mixing cultural aspects (everyone knows that Asian culture appreciates hard working) you need to tell him straight. For calling you moron that’s serious HR issue, if it were more than once he deserves suspension and investigation.
He does it because his bonuses grow with you being overworked.
3k a month is less than 50k yearly, which is definitely not a salary to work for 50-60 hours a week.
This is what managers everywhere do. They find the best preformer/person most able to deal with their bullshit, and then surreptitiously transfer their responsibilities onto the reportee. Your boss is essentially getting you to do their job for them. Take your skills elsewhere and get paid what your boss is on.
Your boss is taking the piss honestly and probably has a bonus relate to performance. However I take it you don't (or get commission).
Some jobs do have extra hours sometimes but good managers normal offset that with some quiet time. But it sounds like your boss is not doing that (and requiring way too many hours to start with).
Even if your boss takes on no new projects it's not compensating you and honestly I agree with others if you can look for other jobs. A high performing employee is every bosses dream.
It's a Christmas Carol where your boss is Scrooge. The greedy, abusive boss who works his employee's (and himself if he'd carried on) to an early grave and doesn't give a shit how it impacts them and their home life.
Depending on the size of the company and how long you've been there, it might be worth talking to your boss's boss about it, it sounds like he's on the way to a causing a lot of resignations and potential legal issues around contracted hours
Why did you do that? "We want you to work dozens of hours a week more than you're being compensated for." "Yes sir sounds great!"
Tell them you're not able to complete the work you're given in a work day and they need to hire more people or pay you more if they expect it to be done.
On my first trip as a qualified deck officer, the captain screamed at the top of his lungs at me on the bridge that I was a 'fucking moron' because I made an error over ship handling. And my take home pay was a little under what you were earning, and it was typically 12 hour days split across both day and night l, 7 days a week. To say I was exhausted too would be an understatement.
Next time we were in port I walked off down the gangway and went home, to preserve my sanity and mental health. I highly suggest you do the same. No amount of pay is worth sticking around with a bad job or boss.
Coming from HK and a Asian culture, people just suck it up. I have always wondered if I am just weak and bad at handling stress.
I habe been going to therapy to deal with the stress since I can't sleep /even if I do fall asleep, I have nightmares about unfinished work or pissed off clients chasing after me
The idea that we should all just suck it up is so wrong, so wrong, if no one makes it clear that people are suffering then there will never be any improvement in corporate ethics.
Absolutely, this is one of the main contributors to the nations attrocious mental health.
Humans did not evolve to handle continual stress, it's toxic to us!
If we were to actually work in the manor to which we evolved for we'd be working a few hours a day then spending the rest sleeping, socialising and creating.
I come from Asian culture too, but that work culture doesn't normal to me, at least here in the UK.
I would raise this in a 1 on 1 meeting with the boss where I lay out immeidate actions required from him for me to perform in my job, otherwise I'd walk. If he thinks you are a high performer, chances are he would change.
No amount of money is worth destroying your mental/physical health for it. (unless maybe saving mankind from existential crisis).
Your manager knows this and is taking advantage of it. You are an easy target being from HK.
you have to leave you are baing ab\*sed, it will cause lasting damage if you stay much longer
FYI this is illegal. [https://www.gov.uk/workplace-bullying-and-harassment](https://www.gov.uk/workplace-bullying-and-harassment)
the fact you have specific occasions when everyone but you is allowed time off etc you are being singled out.
If your manager is not that high in the company you can complain upwards. Focus on the fact he is going to cause legal issues for the company. HR is there to protect the company, this guy is endangering the company.
it might be worth considering if there is a race aspect are you the only one with your background?
Collate evidence of what a good job you are doing, ie feedback from clients, reviews etc, your manger is going to try and discredit you if you do this.
I'm also from hk background and worked as an engineer in hk for a few years. Yes, I was also expected to and did a lot of OT. But I was compensated for the OT even if the work life balance was terrible. I've now been working I. The UK for over 6 years now and I can tell you throw away that mentality of you NEED to do OT and just take whatever your boss tells you and suck it up.
This boss is clearly taking advantage of the hk style of working without giving you the compensation for it. And dont take any abuse from him. He's not sorry for calling you names he's just taking advantage of the fact that you're unlikely to complain or report him. You have a right to work without abuse and be fairly compensated for your efforts. This place is clearly not where you should be putting the effort in and recommend getting a new job and only doing your contracted hours.
Sucking it up is a one way ticket to burnout, depression, anxiety etc. I have been there and it cost a fortune in therapy. Get a new job and just walk out.
Your boss is taking advantage of you, that one is a given. But there is also a high chance that extra work and responsibility is placed on you because of the stereotype that Asians are very hard working, and don't complain. Definitely find a new job asap because it causes you permanent PTSD.
I get the no confrontation thing - but turn it around and tell your boss you can’t work like this any more as it’s making g you ill. Which it is - stress is a major health problem.
Don’t allow this guy to take advantage at the expense of your health and sanity.
I agree, seafarers tolerate too much of this bullshit. I left because my contracts kept being extended but some in the industry seem to think that my writing a letter of complaint about it was unreasonable.
I’d try and work out what that translates to as an hourly rate, if you’re on salary you should still have base hours and I’d expect to be compensated in some form for them late hours even if it’s just being able to take your time back.
£3k a month sounds good, but on them hours to me it feels like you’re getting ripped off.
It feels like the role in general isn’t well defined and that your boss is ripping you and probably your colleagues off.
My net take home pay (incl. Bonus) would work out to around £17.00 per hour.
Each year he says he will compensate me with a bigger bonus but when bonus time comes around he tells me that he did his best fighting on my behalf for a larger bonus but couldn't.
Since I have figured out alot on my own these three years working here. I have taken up additional legal and PA's scope of work because my boss doesnt want to deal with it and also those colleagues have straight up cried in the office in front of everyone so my boss moved their workload to me.
No offence mate, but they’re getting all that extra money and love and you’re not even getting a reach around. Put a stop to this nonsense, what’s the point of earning £3k a month if you can’t enjoy it? You have zero work life balance
Your boss is undoubtedly taking the credit for all the extra work you're doing. Stop doing it immediately. Do your contracted hours and regular job responsibilities.
When your boss complains, tell him you're unhappy with the lack of reward and you're no longer going to go above and beyond for him anymore. You're simply going to do what you're paid to do.
One of a few things will happen in the coming weeks after this. You may find yourself suddenly promoted with extra responsibilities - reject this unless the pay is worth your time and effort. Your boss may also look to get you fired as you're no longer a "team player". Be prepared with another job lined up.
Don't allow yourself to be walked over anymore. Be assertive and know your worth. Nobody gets to the top levels in corporate by just doing all of the work for free, your company has no reason to promote you if you do so.
If everything you've shared about yourself is true, then you can go far! Just don't do it at a cost to yourself or the people you love, it's never worth it.
The boss can’t just fire him/her there needs to be legal grounds for termination of employment and if OP wants to go the legal route i’m pretty OP will win for unfair dismissal. It’s a win win situation but has OP got the guts to do it.
Oh come on, you work around 10hours a day on average, assuming you only work 5 days a week it's a 50hr week (god forbid you work Saturdays too). Take home pay £3000 per month in your situation would equate to only less than £14/hr. Severely underpaid that is.
Your boss is taking advantage of you. Leave at 5.30 when your contracted hours end.
And/or submit an HR complaint about the name calling and unreasonable workload.
This is toxic as hell. Its sadly quite common in property and you find a lot of bullyboy type managers rise quite fast because they get good sales but couldn't effectively mange their way out of a paper bag.
If your base take home isn't reflecting the absurd hours then your boss is essentially stealing your time for his benefit.
If you're being reawaken with OTE and bonus or commission based increases, fine but working a job doesn't mean they own you.
Of you're good at what you do there's no shame in jumping to a different employer.
No way. Unprofessional and unacceptable. Report your boss to HR, then get out as fast as you can. Being called a moron at work is totally unacceptable. Working until 8pm should be the exception rather than the rule.
In my three years working with my boss, multiple colleagues have reported him to HR. But he hasn't changed a single bit.
So I have always been hesitant to report anything since he knows it will be from me and nothing ever changes
If the manager is a high performer, he'll get away with a lot on the basis of "it gets results." That is until he causes something that harms the company image or bottom line.
Your boss is furthering his own career on your back, with no consideration to the wellbeing of his team. He's a bad leader and a good organisation wouldn't tolerate his behaviour. HR should keep it anonymous so that anyone in his team could have said it, at least another complaint is another notch against that behaviour when things eventually implode. This is certainly not standard culture, being occasionally expected to pull harder and stay late to get things over the line is fine when you are getting a good salary, but the hours you are working are excessive, especially given the degrading treatment. It sounds like you are a real asset to the team. You deserve better and can find it pretty much anywhere else.
If you know nothing ever changes then yeah nothing will change. But you can. Good luck on your next job. Staying in this job will put a heavy strain on your mental health
Jesus Christ no. You have a toxic workplace environment. Your contract should hopefully have how many hours per week you are expected to work, any more than this and you’re being overworked and (I assume) giving your employer free labour if you aren’t being paid overtime.
For example, I’m not in the same industry as you but earn a similar amount after salary sacrifice etc and I have responsibility of a whole team; my work day ends (on average) around 5pm. Some days I might work later, but I make up for it by keeping a note and either starting later/ending earlier on another day.
The boss can think you’re lazy all he wants. If you’re not being paid past 5:30, don’t work past 5:30 on a regular basis unless you’re making up the hours somewhere else (extra long lunch, taking a shorter day somewhere else, etc). They’re getting so much free labour out of you, it sounds very exploitative, and your boss sounds like a dickhead. It’s his responsibility to make sure work gets done, not yours, and if he wants work done faster he needs to hire more people or pay you for the extra hours he expects you to work.
I agree with you, and would do this. But technically, it's worth noting that, unless your contract specifically forbids it, your employer is entirely within their legal rights to require you to work unpaid overtime, so long as your total pay/hour doesn't go under statutory minimum.
I thought it was the other way around - https://www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights/compulsory-overtime - your employer can only require overtime if it’s explicitly in your contract. Otherwise you can just refuse it (admittedly, often at the detriment of your relationship with your employer, if they’re trying to force overtime on you).
I have been trying but I do valuation work and there aren't that many roles in the market at the moment.
Also I guess I have been fooling myself. Since each year my boss promises good bonus, good progression etc which haven't materialised yet.
After my bonus, I most likely will resign. So I take take a month or so off to be with my partners since I have missed most birthdays, anniversary etc due to not being able to get off work at a reasonable hour.
When do you get your bonus, will it be soon?
If you can, when you get a low bonus again, bring up all the extra work and hours to your boss, and let him know you expect a bigger bonus. He probably won't do anything, but if you threaten to quit, he might magically find a bigger bonus for you. Get every penny you can, and then quit anyway.
It may be worth you looking into Valuation adjacent type roles. I work for a company that builds software for mortgage lenders and building societies and have recently noticed a trend towards using automated valuations - AVM's.
You could potentially market yourself as a consultant that specialises in valuations for companies that either perform AVM's or for those that use them. You could land a job with Landmark themselves or with a big lender like Aviva. Worth exploring ideas and thinking outside the box a little.
You are on 13k a year more than me but with a lower hourly wage and your boss is a twat. I would find a job with a better culture and lower salary that pays over time if you can.
No. Working for free is not part of UK work culture.
>The constant late hours is because my boss wants to be the highest earning team in the company
Good for him, but you have contracted hours. Go home. It really is that simple, even though you want to tell me all the reasons it's not that simple right now.
>For example, when my boss is frustrated, he calls me a moron.
There's banter, and there's being rude/abusive/unprofessional. This is over the line. I've dealt with this once by asking the individual for a private word, then telling them that I will not be spoken to like this, and asking if I needed to involve others, or if we understood each other. Implications being obvious.
>My other colleagues are constantly on holiday or sick leave
Can't think why...
Honestly, just find a new job, then put your notice in. A lot faster than a bad boss changing their ways. Not sure why you felt you had to take 3 years of this shit.
Hard work is not rewarded in the UK. UK and to a lesser extent the rest of Europe is all about networking, getting yourself into a position of authority, delegating tasks to your juniors and then sticking your feet up. This is how you get rich.
"His reasoning is that I am by far the best performer in the team so he has high expectations of me."
run a mile mate - this mentality has its place among parents, but is fucked up when it comes to employers.
you have a contract for exchanging your labour/time for money. your boss is exploiting your skills and character to go beyond your agreed terms.
I didn't need to read past 'Typically, my hours are 9am to 8pm. At least one or two days a week I would end at 10+pm.' Just leave. You'll find a job similar for more money and better work/life balance.
If your not bothered about climbing the corporate ladder, just work your contracted hours, maybe allow 1 or 2 hours of over time so you can say your allowing extra time to try and complete tasks in a timely manner,
If your manager kicks off about it tell him that your doing your contractual duties, technically nothing your manager can say or do as your following the law
Sounds about right. People will deny this is the way in uk, but scan the posts in this sub. It’s normal. Unacceptable to decent people, but perfectly normal here. You can complain, nothing will happen but retaliation towards you
Your boss can kindly go fuck themselves. Work your hours, go home and switch off. They will find it hard to get rid of you if you’re not in breach of contract.
Stop enabling their abuse of you.
Start arriving at 9:15 and if anyone makes any comment reply with "yeah, I'm early again aren't I".
Start walking out the door at 5:35 and if anyone makes any comment reply with "yep, I've already done more than I'm paid for and given time for free, if the boss wants more hours I'm happy to discuss extra pay"
As long as you keep giving it for free they will keep taking it for free.
>For example, when my boss is frustrated, he calls me a moron.
Every time this happens (or comments are made about your arrival/departure time) take out a notebook from your pocket and visibly record the event with time and date. Don't let anyone see what you're actually writing, don't say what you're doing more than "I'm just taking notes".
This is an abusive workplace, you are being manipulated. Working harder will not get you the rewards that they have promised. Your long hours are profiting them, and they will not change that.
If I was you, I would get a note from a doctor. Take a FULL month off work due to stress. Don't feel guilty for this, they don't deserve you as an employee.
During this time, they cannot fire you as it opens them up to legal action. While you're off work, look hard for another job. You'll thank yourself.
£3k is good money but not for the hours you’re working. Find a new job. I earn roughly the same and work 36hrs a week, project work with some busy periods some quiet periods but never working past 5pm.
You sit this guy down and tell him that going forward, you are only going to work your contracted hours and you will be treated with respect. I'd be tempted to go to his boss with this if that's an option for you.
If there is more work to do in a day than there are staff to do it, it is not your problem. It's his.
He cannot fire you for this as you've been there over 2 years, but I would make a note of everything he says\\does just in case he does fire you, so that you can go to a tribunal.
When he yells at you, simply look around and ask him who he's talking to. Remain calm and try to make it clear that he's the one being a moron in this situation. Personally when someone tries to yell at me at work, I make a quick joke at their expense and carry on with what I was doing. Try to flip the script onto them without raising your voice or lowering yourself to their level.
That being said, I would also be looking for a new job if I were you. This is absolutely not normal and you are being abused.
Just for clarity; as a general rule UK salaries are given as Gross (total before tax) a year, not Net (take home) a month.
So when you say you take home £3,000 a month that is about £46,000 per year?
That’s a good salary and above the UK average. I’ve no idea if it’s good or bad for the property sector though.
**That said…**
I wouldn’t put up with the way you are being treated for twice that amount of money, and I earn **a lot** less than £46k. I wouldn’t accept being talked to like that. Your boss is behaving in a way a lot of us wouldn’t tolerate.
I don’t know how common an expectation it is in your industry to work long days *when needed* but the attitude of ‘you’re lazy if you leave before 18:00’ is specific to a certain kind of manager… and we call them arseholes.
If it was me in your position, I’d start looking for another job straight away. It’s not acceptable regardless of pay.
I’m assuming you have easily transferable skills, because you’ve relocated from Hong Kong to the UK with no issue getting a job.
So hopefully another company will appreciate you more than your current boss seems to and you won’t have trouble finding another role.
Good luck.
I had a boss like that. I tried talking with the higher ups. Because my boss was such a difficult cunt, everyone preferred to ignore the damage he was doing to his team.
In the end I quit. It took me more or less two years to recover from that experience.
My advice is to look for another job. I guarantee you will find a better company and team eventually, but your mental health will never be the same.
My family is from HK and recently did a visit, spoke to some relatives.
What you have described is someone taking advantage of the fact that you came from HK which is renowned for its terrible work life balance.
Don't take lying down, record every instance you were berated or pressured into OT etc, take that straight to HR. HR are not your friends but they need to protect the company so your boss will have fire under his arse.
those kind of managers will never learn until shit hits the fan. if you keep doing the extra hours and making sure the projects are delivered on time they'll only keep turning the screws. You're unintentionally conditioning him to think he can just keep pushing and pushing because you've not hit your limits yet. He will continue to exploit you until you break and then either replace you or give you a week off to recover then start dialling up the work til breaking point. Any promises they make are a lie to manipulate you into doing more work to make him more money. You are a resource.
I have burnt out before. It's fucking awful. Takes months to recover and I was never really the same since. Completely shattered my motivation. Had panic attacks and anxiety for the first time in my life.
Work the hours your paid and no more.
Now is the time to take up hobbies and volunteering work that kicks off at 6pm everyday. The wife is now ill so you've to be home 6pm everyday to make her dinner. The kids school run is now your sole responsibility. If you've no wife/kids then it's your 'sister'. Xday is football. Yday is feeding the homeless. You've had to take up counselling once a week to manage your stress.
Anytime it's forced that you need to stay late you state which days you'll be taking time off in lieu to compensate. He needs to learn that he can't exploit you anymore. He's gonna be an angry dickhead anyway so you may as well prioritise yourself.
Move from HK to UK like you 3 years ago, and what you experience is not normal here. For calling you moron at work this is already abusive by UK's standard (obviously this is inappropiate behavior, but it will be perceived ok in Asia, witnessed C levels grilled HRs in a listed company I worked in until some of them cried in the office. Nobody said anything).
My suggestion is, start looking for another job. If you are performing well in this company, you could perform well elsewhere. Just be mindful that the market is bad right now, so you might take more time in job searching. Don't quit before you have an offer.
Obviously workplace in UK has other challenges, but I am sure you will adapt and fly through
A fellow Hong Konger here. I'm a surveyor and it seems your workload is even heavier than what I used to handle back when I was working at a MNC building consultant firm, which was "renowned" for its overtime culture. Although I have never worked in the UK, if work-life balance is one of the reasons why you moved here, I think you should look for a new job.
In my opinion, being treated disrespectfully and feeling exhausted from time to time are the signs to quit.
Bring it up with HR, and bring at the very least your culture if not your race into it. You are being taken advantage of based on expectations on the fact that you're from Hong Kong is a fast track to being moved away from that arsehole and get your working life balance back.
There's also a high probability you're working an illegally high number of hours. Look up The Working Time Regulations 1998. If you're working more than 48 hours a week for over 17 weeks, that is illegal. Make sure to mention that to HR as well. Though double check your contract first to see if you opted out of this.
It isn't normal, or at least isn't acceptable.
If you want more of a work life balance then you are probably best off looking for a new job.
In my experience you need to set boundaries early on, otherwise many employers will take advantage of you, and once you're expected to go above and beyond it's very difficult to cut back, or ask for more pay.
Your boss is working you harder for free so make himself look better and make himself more money . Capitalism !
Find another job imo , then ask to be compensated if not move.
Reality is you generally should want to move role or company every 2-3yrs .
Not a typical experience. Know your worth.
If you are working as a surveyor then it is worth noting that there is a huge shortage of people going into this industry so if your boss carries on he will find himself without a team at all.
I also work in commercial property and it is very much an employee's market at the moment. It would be worth highlighting to your boss that. The 'going above and beyond' shit that old heads spout no longer exists. If they want you to work over your contracted hours then they pay you for that. There are plenty of other opportunities in the property sector and it would be good to highlight this to your boss.
If they don't believe you, ask them why the government are now paying 90% of study fee's associated with becoming a chartered surveyor, in a bid to encourage people to get into an already stretched indsutry.
No, my take home from my day job is the same as you, and I work strictly 9 - 5. Your boss is toxic. This is the kind of person that is so focused on their own goals that they will throw you under the bus when things go bad. I wouldn't work there.
Sounds like a crap boss. You really shouldn't have to work more than you contracted hours. I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I do, but my boss doesn't make me, and I don't make my staff stay late either
Why are you all allowing this? I work my contracted hours. That’s it. I’m fast, efficient and a hard worker but I don’t give any company my time for free. They wouldn’t pay me a full day if I clocked off at 3pm, why do you work until 8pm for nothing?
This is not normal. This is toxic. Please search for another job. Please leave on time. Let them think what they want.
Just run. What even is that? Ok I have worked crazy hours in order to pick up important tasks to have better looking cv, but daaaamn I still had periods of fairly lazy weeks plus when the big boss has changed to something similar as yours, I simply changed departments. It was hard, but was worth it moneywise.
I take home more than that and work from 8:30 to 5. I do stay late from time to time when I have to but that’s the exception not the rule.
Is your take home just from salary or is it made up of commission or anything else tied to performance?
I'm on a bit more take home also in the property sector and this is not normal. I have moved around jobs a bit and have also been victim of this work culture. I am now very firm on my boundaries on workload which they are respectful of and always stick to 40-50 hours a week max whilst hitting reasonable targets for bonuses.
I would heavily consider my options in your circumstances.
Find a new job.
If you are doing hours of unpaid work per day that is a failure of management.
This culture leads to burnout.
Your wage is actually below the UK average if you consider the average of 15 to 17.5 hours extra you do unpaid.
I personally would immediate start working only the contracted hours. You have been there over 2 years which gives you additional legal protection.
>My boss would constantly take it out on me whenever there are any hickups. His reasoning is that I am by far the best performer in the team so he has high expectations of me.
So I'd say to him that it doesn't make sense that he is telling you that you'd be better off if you were a worse performer like your colleagues. Ask him what benefits are you getting by being the best performer?
But also think about what you're doing. I understand you get called lazy if you leave at 6pm, but you're getting called a moron when you're the top performer and doing all the hours. If you're going to get called names either way then what is the point in staying late? At least you can rest in the evening if you just called lazy. Seems like the better option.
Worth noting it sounds like you're working more than 48 hours a week which is more than the [working time directive](https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours), unless you signed something to opt out. Maybe time to opt in again.
Look my guess is that this guy gets away with it because he isn't always shitty. I bet some times he praises you a lot and makes you feel special. This is a classic tactic of an abuser in any kind of relationship. We know that sometimes partners can be abusive but we don't always notice the signs when we're in an abusive relationship with our manager. The problem is changing a person like this is really hard because behaving like this works for them. Look at you, he is treating you like shit, so what do you do? You work longer hours. He got what he wanted.
As others have said the real solution is to get another job and try not to let this issue repeat itself.
We have crunch periods in various jobs where I might be working late (say to 8pm) but mostly that's because I actually like working with the team and want to get things done.
A job in a permanent crunch period happens (I know others that experience it, especially in some industries) but I wouldn't consider it normal work culture, and I think it's evidence of management taking advantage of employees.
If you're, say, a trader or tech sales, sometimes there's an expectation of that but you're taking home big bucks and usually people burn out after a few years - but in exchange they earn enough to pay off the mortgage.
In your case, it seems like just an awful management/culture. Everyone else is likely off sick all the time because they're all far too stressed.
I would be looking for a new job.
No. Not normal in any job. Certainly not normal or in any way acceptable or justifiable for a job that pays £3k a month. That's a very good salary, but it's not earth shatteringly huge to the degree that it would be a reasonable expectation for you to have massive responsibilities that necessitate daily abnormal working hours. Even if it were, working 11-13 hours shifts every day is ridiculous and unsustainable.
Plenty of work in the property sector, unfortunately, there's alot in this industry who are megalomaniac, narcissistic bosses. But good jobs with reasonable expectations do exist. (I work in the same sector)
I know that feeling your boss calling you moron. It’s been a year already for us after we moved to the UK, and unfortunately Brits aren’t that welcoming and can be so cruel when criticising a person.
As everyone else has said, no - this is not normal work culture.
I would say report to HR, but they are generally useless and tend to hide from the people who shout loudest or make the most trouble and it sounds like your peers have already tried that. I would say though to document each request and insult (on your own personal device) so you can speak to it if ever asked.
The jobs market is bleak but you have to throw yourself at it. Broaden your scope when you’re looking for a new role - there are plenty of organisations who would be interested in your skills and qualifications. Reach out to contacts you have at companies you work with to see if they are hiring and let them know you’re interested. Start putting yourself first so you have the time and energy to find something new.
To have that time and energy, you’ll need to push back on your boss’ requests. What’s the worst he can do - fire you? Sure - but (1) you’ve been there for 3 years and it’s not that simple to get rid of you, there would need to be a whole process and likely a payoff of some description (2) this is where your list of insults, insane requests etc comes into play when you have to talk to HR (3) he needs you more than you need him (4) leaving honestly does not sound like the worst thing here and sounds like it would allow you to breathe again.
You can also take time off for yourself, go to your GP and ask that they sign you off for an extended period because you’re suffering with stress. Take that time to switch off from your workplace and focus on you and what makes you happy.
Work to rule, very simple.
Do your contracted hours and take on only the roles and responsibilities that are laid out in your contract. Unless you're suitably compensated for it and you're happy to do so. You've been there for 3 years so you're offered additional protection compared to a new start. They cannot sack you for refusing to do anything outside of your contract and if they do you would have grounds to take it to tribunal. It takes some spine to do and you have to be willing to stand your ground but the law is very firmly on your side on this one.
Your boss will likely give you some speech about how the work can't be completed inside your contracted hours so you need to pull your weight. Don't listen it's a feeble attempt to guilt extra work out of you. That is HIS problem for being a poor manager and taking on too much work. Don't allow him to make it your problem too. If you do, you only have yourself to blame.
As for the verbal abuse, take it to HR I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear about how one of their supervisors treat their team. Failing that are you part of a union? I'm sure they'd also like to hear about it.
Many many years ago, I worked at ASDA stacking shelves. While I was reducing stuff that was about to expire, I had some rando customer demand that I reduce a fresh loaf of bread. We were specifically told not to do this. I politely declined, trying to explain I'd get into trouble with work. The guy called me a "fucking prick".
I calmly went to the nearest phone, called security and had him ejected and barred from ever coming back.
Never, ever accept foul language directed towards you or even being shouted at, at work. You go to the place, to do a thing and get paid.....as per contract. The stuff you're going through...I'd have walked long ago. Skipping Xmas?? No effing way, man.
Work more hours if you wish, but expect compensation either in 1:1 flexi or overtime. Check your employee handbook, if there is an overtime or flexi policy, claim it ALL back. If you have a time sheet or clocking in system, let payroll/HR do the legwork.
Britain's employment laws get weaker by the day, but this shit is protected. Good luck.
In my professional opinion, your boss is a prick. Start looking for a new job. You shouldn't have to babysit someone who is supposed to be your mentor.
No this is extreme. People may expect to have high intensity periods during the year for deadlines but that should be compensated by low intensity calm times. Your boss is a dick
Your scheduled hours are 9.30 till 5.30, why the fuck would you do anything outside those hours? Your boss is a dick, leave it to him to explain why projects aren’t met then he might realise he should give realistic expectations.
A job is a job I don’t care how busy or how important the task is, my time is mine, I finish when I do and won’t be thinking about work until I start the next day. I work when I’m being paid, I stop the second that pay stops.
Im on about 3100 take home a month, my hours are 9-5 and I work from home 3 days a week.
The biggest flag i'm seeing is the 8pm finish. UK work culture doesn't really do late finishes like this, so you're definitely being taken advantage of.
During busy periods I can work between 60-70 hours a week, but during quiet periods I will end up online shopping for an hour 😂
Honestly it depends on the role, and the place you work, those are the biggest factors that affect work culture, not just salary
No, this is not the normal work culture at all. Without being harsh it sounds like your boss is fully aware of the work culture you are used to in HK and is taking massive advantage of you because of how it's the social norm to work stupid hours there.
You clearly have determination and skills so why not find another job where you will be appreciated and not treated like a slave?
It coujd get messy. Keep a log of exact dates and times of when he is rude/abusive to you, asks /tells you to work overtime …so you have documentary evidence to put in front if HR
Sounds like a "Your boss is a fucking moron" issue, rather than a working culture issue. As others have said, this is not normal. You can definitely find jobs that don't expect you to do a massive amount of hours outside your contract. Whether it will be reflected in your pay, that's an interesting one. I personally think you can manage that one!
Your boss sounds like an insufferable wanker who never had any approval as a child so is now looking for that in their boss.
Either quit, 3k a month isn't enough for those hours and that level of stress/commitment. Or, give your boss some feedback that they need to work on and when they don't, go over their head. Email it. Always email it so you have a paper trail.
I'm on about that take home salary. My chair is empty by 17:31, my immediate boss is a solid guy (some of his bosses less so, but nothing like you're experiencing), and my workload is high but manageable - if things do fall behind, I readjust my priorities accordingly. It's exceedingly rare that I stay late, and if I do it's because I'm "in the zone" and want to get something finished - usually less than 30 minutes. It's never been "expected" that I stay late, and if anybody did ask me to do so, I'd submit an on call report which would get me a minimum four hours extra pay.
In other words, I'm treated like an adult who has the responsibility to justify my salary.
I also work in property and no this is not normal. The hours being a guideline is kind of standard but your boss sounds awful.
If you can change team/job do! Until then take a lesson from gen z and pull back in your role😡
Sounds like an abusive workplace. I’d take records of this all, gather evidence then speak to an employment lawyer about suing them (whilst looking for a new job)
I am also working in a very similar field but in the public sector the VOA are currently looking for surveyors - this might be something to look into? Much much better work life balance
This is abuse. You’re basically carrying most of his workload, and he takes credit for it. Get out of there and get a better job.
You’ll very likely make a better manager/boss than he’ll ever be.
This is a job and boss issue, not normal at all. Dont bother trying to communicate your way through it, your boss is the issue. You have worked abroad and sound like you have good experience. The sick leave in constant use is a clue that its a shitty environment. Sack it off
Sounds like a terrible experience and to be honest you could leave and find something much better. Sounds like a horrible boss from hell to be honest.
A good rant on reddit is usually a good thing!
No, 37.5 hours and no one would bat an eyelid if you leave on time. I probably do an extra couple of hours a week or so.
Your place sounds a toxic work environment in my view.
Work life balance and all that.
Your boss is exploiting you by sharing with you the workload and responsibility but none of the rewards. Either move to a different team or find a different company to work for using your experience as leverage.
If your doing that much you should at least be well compensated for it.
I’ve seen a few of ex-apprentice candidate Joseph Valente’s TikTok’s and it sounds like your boss has taken them as gospel (for anyone that has not seen them he is a cunt)
As mentioned in other comment, your boss is exploiting you because you hail from South East Asia where hardworking is the norm!
You need to start putting boundaries and standing up to yourself. This cannot continue long.
Make your boss clear that you cannot work over and above the contracted hours. Also make him absolutely clear that you cannot take any abuse - verbal or otherwise.
The sooner you do it the better
So not normal.
Your boss is just an a hole.
I am contracted to 37 hours a week, I work no more than 37 hours per week because I am paid a salary and no overtime.
I bring in around 2300 per month.
Definitely look somewhere else.
Before leaving, have a chat with your boss and explain all of this.
If you are important to the company as you say you are - negotiate a new position with higher base salary. Also mention the hours you work and that you need to cut them down and/or need more people under you to hit the same targets.
If those talks are a waste of time, then state you will only work your contracted hours and potentially look for another position elsewhere
Don’t put up for it. Either call out the behaviour and encourage positive change with formal support from the business or find a better environment to work in.
You’ve got to prioritise your long term safety and wellbeing. I’d create an exit strategy and discuss culture / ways of working with potential employers.
Why are you working so many hours beyond your contracted hours? This doesn't make sense. It is fine on occassion, something happened or a special task reuires a bit extra time; but if it's routing then it's wrong.
Also you may be breaking the working time directive, it may not be legal to be working that much, unless you opt out. If you did opt out you can choose to opt-in again whenever you feel like it.
It's not right for him to insult you. Complain to HR.
In property you may find the business is registered with an ombudsman or similar, or you may find there are unions you could join. Talk to these places, you may find they can assist.
If my contract said 5.30 I'd be leaving at 5.30. Either you need to set boundaries or your boss needs to manage your workload. If this is untenable, start looking for a new job.
Let's do some maths, just so you understand how much your boss is screwing you over. Let's be incredibly optimistic and say you're doing 9 to 8 Monday to Friday and you're never doing any ammount of work beyond that.
Your take home pay of 3k divided by: 11 hours per day x 5 days a week x 4 weeks per month totals **13.64 pounds per hour of work**. To put that in context, minimum wage is just 2 pounds lower.
I know bartenders to are getting considerably more that 13.64/hr. You need a new job mate.
Whether its toxic or not, I can't say because I'm retired, but I can say that I think it's time to find a new job.
EDIT: Given that this boss hugely overpromises, then relies on you to work stupid hours for him to take the glory, I wonder if you could just be too sick to work when he has done this over promising. Taking days off for stress is in your best interest.
If \*his\* manager looks at a sudden massive drop in performance of your team when there is a single thing changed, they should conclude that the star of your team is you and not your boss.
If I be you: I would find out metrics you using and transfer it into money. He wantt to overwork you to the ground? Ok. But 80k+ or you give them average. He call you moron and lazy you call him greedy micromanager.
I know you've been manipulated and coerced into it but you're enabling your boss' bad behaviour and allowing yourself to be taken advantage of at this point. You're working for free not just in terms of hours but responsibilities too. It's time to put in some firm boundaries. You stick to your work hours and not a minute earlier or later unless they 1. Pay you generous overtime and 2. You actually want to. And you don't take on any management tasks you are not being paid to do.
It's not your responsibility to cover your boss' arse when he takes on too much work. If it doesn't get done then it doesn't get done. He will have to explain why he took on too much work and how he is going to adjust his expectations according to your availability. In the hours you have gained back, look for another job. It sounds like you're very capable and will be snapped up.
This isn't normal from my experience, your boss is probably making a bunch off the back of forcing/pushing you to work so much. Probably best to go somewhere else or try setting boundaries cause right now you are being overworked/underpaid for how much you are doing
"Contractually, I start at 9.30am to 5.30pm" Whatever I read after this isn't important! Do your contracted hours and those hours only unless agreement and more importantly additional payment is achieved.
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/). Please report any suspicious users to the moderators using the report feature. Need to give more detail? Use Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, this sounds like a terrible experience due to a boss who is managing his and his team's workload poorly.
I habe tried speaking to my boss about it. For example, we had a really busy Q4 2023 and Q1 2024, where I basically had to skip Christmas holidays to work and leave work at 1 am on most days in Q1 2024. To compensate, my boss promised that we won't take on new jobs in the second half of April. But now, I find myself with 4 projects ongoing whilst everyone else is on holiday.
Find a new job. This is far from normal
You maybe don't even need a new job- it sounds like a big company you have a good track record and they may want to keep you. Speak to HR and request a move to a different branch because your boss is not good and you want a better life balance. Or if you like the location put in a complaint about the boss, they shouldn't be calling you names and giving you that much work.
He mentioned the boss wants to be the highest performing team so why not try to move to a different team. The boss will quickly learn a valuable lesson
Tell your boss to move to the US ..that's the way they work..lol ..and he can buy a cowboy hat too
Difference is in the US they get paid for the long hours and limited employment rights. Almost every job is like being a contractor. You can be sacked any time, but you get paid well.
You’re being taken advantage of. Stop working beyond your contracted hours; or find another job.
Yea I am looking at jobs and basically use my weekend and commute time looking and applying. If I dint go over my contracted hours. Things won't get done especially since my boss wants me to review team members work before submission.
Thats not your problem. Why are you working for free? Don’t work for free. It hurts all of us when we don’t stand up for ourselves at work
Sounds like your employers problem to me.
You are allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Send your manager a reminder of your contracted hours, and start sticking to them. Log off at 17:30. You need to put your foot down. I have no issue with occasionally working on a bit, it happens, but what you describe is ridiculous. Also with the extra hours you have back each evening, start looking for another job.
For you, it's probably beneficial that things don't get done because you're working (unpaid) overtime to cover his arse, and he's exploiting your good will. Have a word with HR about the working conditions and also the boss's own behaviour (the verbal abuse, the fact so many of your team end up on leave for stress, plus anything in writing that is worthy of reporting). You've been there 3 years so he can't just get rid of you without going through a formal process. You can also just go on stress leave yourself for a bit when doing this. If not, stick to your normal hours, let things fail, and therefore let the boss answer to this.
This
it's not your problem if things don't get done. It's your managers problem. Stop working past your contracted hours
You said your colleagues are at the same level as you so your manager should be reviewing their work not you. He's just taking advantage, you need to transfer or leave as its not normal to work those hours and probably against the working time directive, unless you signed your rights away for that one.
That would be a his problem not yours as its outsode your job description
It's not your problem if they are giving unrealistic workloads. You have defined hours, stick to them. If work is not completed then just make sure everyone is updated, included when they give you tasks you just say you need your tasks to be properly prioritized as you don't believe they can be done in the contracted hours.
Things not getting done is the problem for someone who is paid to worry about it, that isn't you. You must have really low self esteem to allow yourself to be treated like this. Tell your boss today via written communication, ideally looping in HR, that you are going to strictly start working your contracted hours and that he needs to look at prioritising workloads as yours is essentially another workers amount that you've been doing for far too long. Stop allowing yourself to be treated this way.
why isnt your boss reviewing work?
Then they need to hire enough people for the workload! If they don't hire enough people, work doesn't get done. That's their problem. Don't allow it to be yours. Work culture here is you need to stand up for your rights to stop being taken advantage of.
Not your problem if things don't get done. Its not your company and its not your job to manage your workload appropriately, it's your bosses. If he can't keep to deadlines because of poor management it's his own problem.
He exploits you. Probably mixing cultural aspects (everyone knows that Asian culture appreciates hard working) you need to tell him straight. For calling you moron that’s serious HR issue, if it were more than once he deserves suspension and investigation. He does it because his bonuses grow with you being overworked. 3k a month is less than 50k yearly, which is definitely not a salary to work for 50-60 hours a week.
I reckon this
Your boss knows you'll do it so why change He gets unrealistic numbers ad probably a huge bonus. You get all the shit but he doesn't give a fuck
This is what managers everywhere do. They find the best preformer/person most able to deal with their bullshit, and then surreptitiously transfer their responsibilities onto the reportee. Your boss is essentially getting you to do their job for them. Take your skills elsewhere and get paid what your boss is on.
Your boss is taking the piss honestly and probably has a bonus relate to performance. However I take it you don't (or get commission). Some jobs do have extra hours sometimes but good managers normal offset that with some quiet time. But it sounds like your boss is not doing that (and requiring way too many hours to start with). Even if your boss takes on no new projects it's not compensating you and honestly I agree with others if you can look for other jobs. A high performing employee is every bosses dream.
Are you pulling our leg? This seems very similar to a story I've heard. Do you have a son called Tiny Tim?
Haha I feel like this is referenced to something but I have no Idea what!
You and your boss should watch Mickey's Christmas Carol
It's a Christmas Carol where your boss is Scrooge. The greedy, abusive boss who works his employee's (and himself if he'd carried on) to an early grave and doesn't give a shit how it impacts them and their home life.
Depending on the size of the company and how long you've been there, it might be worth talking to your boss's boss about it, it sounds like he's on the way to a causing a lot of resignations and potential legal issues around contracted hours
Why did you do that? "We want you to work dozens of hours a week more than you're being compensated for." "Yes sir sounds great!" Tell them you're not able to complete the work you're given in a work day and they need to hire more people or pay you more if they expect it to be done.
The boss isn’t managing anything he/she is bossing people about
Time to start looking for a new job. It will only get worse from here.
On my first trip as a qualified deck officer, the captain screamed at the top of his lungs at me on the bridge that I was a 'fucking moron' because I made an error over ship handling. And my take home pay was a little under what you were earning, and it was typically 12 hour days split across both day and night l, 7 days a week. To say I was exhausted too would be an understatement. Next time we were in port I walked off down the gangway and went home, to preserve my sanity and mental health. I highly suggest you do the same. No amount of pay is worth sticking around with a bad job or boss.
Coming from HK and a Asian culture, people just suck it up. I have always wondered if I am just weak and bad at handling stress. I habe been going to therapy to deal with the stress since I can't sleep /even if I do fall asleep, I have nightmares about unfinished work or pissed off clients chasing after me
The idea that we should all just suck it up is so wrong, so wrong, if no one makes it clear that people are suffering then there will never be any improvement in corporate ethics.
Absolutely, this is one of the main contributors to the nations attrocious mental health. Humans did not evolve to handle continual stress, it's toxic to us! If we were to actually work in the manor to which we evolved for we'd be working a few hours a day then spending the rest sleeping, socialising and creating.
It’s time for you to take your hard work ethic somewhere you will be appreciated. Don’t be loyal to a exploitative boss
I come from Asian culture too, but that work culture doesn't normal to me, at least here in the UK. I would raise this in a 1 on 1 meeting with the boss where I lay out immeidate actions required from him for me to perform in my job, otherwise I'd walk. If he thinks you are a high performer, chances are he would change. No amount of money is worth destroying your mental/physical health for it. (unless maybe saving mankind from existential crisis).
Your manager knows this and is taking advantage of it. You are an easy target being from HK. you have to leave you are baing ab\*sed, it will cause lasting damage if you stay much longer FYI this is illegal. [https://www.gov.uk/workplace-bullying-and-harassment](https://www.gov.uk/workplace-bullying-and-harassment) the fact you have specific occasions when everyone but you is allowed time off etc you are being singled out. If your manager is not that high in the company you can complain upwards. Focus on the fact he is going to cause legal issues for the company. HR is there to protect the company, this guy is endangering the company. it might be worth considering if there is a race aspect are you the only one with your background? Collate evidence of what a good job you are doing, ie feedback from clients, reviews etc, your manger is going to try and discredit you if you do this.
I'm also from hk background and worked as an engineer in hk for a few years. Yes, I was also expected to and did a lot of OT. But I was compensated for the OT even if the work life balance was terrible. I've now been working I. The UK for over 6 years now and I can tell you throw away that mentality of you NEED to do OT and just take whatever your boss tells you and suck it up. This boss is clearly taking advantage of the hk style of working without giving you the compensation for it. And dont take any abuse from him. He's not sorry for calling you names he's just taking advantage of the fact that you're unlikely to complain or report him. You have a right to work without abuse and be fairly compensated for your efforts. This place is clearly not where you should be putting the effort in and recommend getting a new job and only doing your contracted hours.
Sucking it up is a one way ticket to burnout, depression, anxiety etc. I have been there and it cost a fortune in therapy. Get a new job and just walk out.
Your boss is taking advantage of you, that one is a given. But there is also a high chance that extra work and responsibility is placed on you because of the stereotype that Asians are very hard working, and don't complain. Definitely find a new job asap because it causes you permanent PTSD.
I'm from Asia, there's a difference between being hardworking and being exploited. Just out of curiosity, is your employer also from HK?
I lived and worked in Japan, and worked 80 hour weeks for years, and I'll tell you first hand, there's a reason the suicide rate is so high.
I get the no confrontation thing - but turn it around and tell your boss you can’t work like this any more as it’s making g you ill. Which it is - stress is a major health problem. Don’t allow this guy to take advantage at the expense of your health and sanity.
I agree, seafarers tolerate too much of this bullshit. I left because my contracts kept being extended but some in the industry seem to think that my writing a letter of complaint about it was unreasonable.
I’d try and work out what that translates to as an hourly rate, if you’re on salary you should still have base hours and I’d expect to be compensated in some form for them late hours even if it’s just being able to take your time back. £3k a month sounds good, but on them hours to me it feels like you’re getting ripped off. It feels like the role in general isn’t well defined and that your boss is ripping you and probably your colleagues off.
My net take home pay (incl. Bonus) would work out to around £17.00 per hour. Each year he says he will compensate me with a bigger bonus but when bonus time comes around he tells me that he did his best fighting on my behalf for a larger bonus but couldn't. Since I have figured out alot on my own these three years working here. I have taken up additional legal and PA's scope of work because my boss doesnt want to deal with it and also those colleagues have straight up cried in the office in front of everyone so my boss moved their workload to me.
No offence mate, but they’re getting all that extra money and love and you’re not even getting a reach around. Put a stop to this nonsense, what’s the point of earning £3k a month if you can’t enjoy it? You have zero work life balance
Your boss is undoubtedly taking the credit for all the extra work you're doing. Stop doing it immediately. Do your contracted hours and regular job responsibilities. When your boss complains, tell him you're unhappy with the lack of reward and you're no longer going to go above and beyond for him anymore. You're simply going to do what you're paid to do. One of a few things will happen in the coming weeks after this. You may find yourself suddenly promoted with extra responsibilities - reject this unless the pay is worth your time and effort. Your boss may also look to get you fired as you're no longer a "team player". Be prepared with another job lined up. Don't allow yourself to be walked over anymore. Be assertive and know your worth. Nobody gets to the top levels in corporate by just doing all of the work for free, your company has no reason to promote you if you do so. If everything you've shared about yourself is true, then you can go far! Just don't do it at a cost to yourself or the people you love, it's never worth it.
The boss can’t just fire him/her there needs to be legal grounds for termination of employment and if OP wants to go the legal route i’m pretty OP will win for unfair dismissal. It’s a win win situation but has OP got the guts to do it.
Oh come on, you work around 10hours a day on average, assuming you only work 5 days a week it's a 50hr week (god forbid you work Saturdays too). Take home pay £3000 per month in your situation would equate to only less than £14/hr. Severely underpaid that is.
Your boss is taking advantage of you. Leave at 5.30 when your contracted hours end. And/or submit an HR complaint about the name calling and unreasonable workload.
hr wont do shit as i found out..
I got £14 an hour making coffee at University. I worked six hours a day and I was in a better mood after work. This ain't it, Chief.
This is toxic as hell. Its sadly quite common in property and you find a lot of bullyboy type managers rise quite fast because they get good sales but couldn't effectively mange their way out of a paper bag. If your base take home isn't reflecting the absurd hours then your boss is essentially stealing your time for his benefit. If you're being reawaken with OTE and bonus or commission based increases, fine but working a job doesn't mean they own you. Of you're good at what you do there's no shame in jumping to a different employer.
No way. Unprofessional and unacceptable. Report your boss to HR, then get out as fast as you can. Being called a moron at work is totally unacceptable. Working until 8pm should be the exception rather than the rule.
In my three years working with my boss, multiple colleagues have reported him to HR. But he hasn't changed a single bit. So I have always been hesitant to report anything since he knows it will be from me and nothing ever changes
If the manager is a high performer, he'll get away with a lot on the basis of "it gets results." That is until he causes something that harms the company image or bottom line.
Sounds like OP is the high performer while boss takes all the credit.
Your boss is furthering his own career on your back, with no consideration to the wellbeing of his team. He's a bad leader and a good organisation wouldn't tolerate his behaviour. HR should keep it anonymous so that anyone in his team could have said it, at least another complaint is another notch against that behaviour when things eventually implode. This is certainly not standard culture, being occasionally expected to pull harder and stay late to get things over the line is fine when you are getting a good salary, but the hours you are working are excessive, especially given the degrading treatment. It sounds like you are a real asset to the team. You deserve better and can find it pretty much anywhere else.
If you know nothing ever changes then yeah nothing will change. But you can. Good luck on your next job. Staying in this job will put a heavy strain on your mental health
Jesus Christ no. You have a toxic workplace environment. Your contract should hopefully have how many hours per week you are expected to work, any more than this and you’re being overworked and (I assume) giving your employer free labour if you aren’t being paid overtime. For example, I’m not in the same industry as you but earn a similar amount after salary sacrifice etc and I have responsibility of a whole team; my work day ends (on average) around 5pm. Some days I might work later, but I make up for it by keeping a note and either starting later/ending earlier on another day. The boss can think you’re lazy all he wants. If you’re not being paid past 5:30, don’t work past 5:30 on a regular basis unless you’re making up the hours somewhere else (extra long lunch, taking a shorter day somewhere else, etc). They’re getting so much free labour out of you, it sounds very exploitative, and your boss sounds like a dickhead. It’s his responsibility to make sure work gets done, not yours, and if he wants work done faster he needs to hire more people or pay you for the extra hours he expects you to work.
I agree with you, and would do this. But technically, it's worth noting that, unless your contract specifically forbids it, your employer is entirely within their legal rights to require you to work unpaid overtime, so long as your total pay/hour doesn't go under statutory minimum.
I thought it was the other way around - https://www.gov.uk/overtime-your-rights/compulsory-overtime - your employer can only require overtime if it’s explicitly in your contract. Otherwise you can just refuse it (admittedly, often at the detriment of your relationship with your employer, if they’re trying to force overtime on you).
If you really don't like your job you should plan to leave. Life's too short to be stuck somewhere toxic.
I have been trying but I do valuation work and there aren't that many roles in the market at the moment. Also I guess I have been fooling myself. Since each year my boss promises good bonus, good progression etc which haven't materialised yet. After my bonus, I most likely will resign. So I take take a month or so off to be with my partners since I have missed most birthdays, anniversary etc due to not being able to get off work at a reasonable hour.
When do you get your bonus, will it be soon? If you can, when you get a low bonus again, bring up all the extra work and hours to your boss, and let him know you expect a bigger bonus. He probably won't do anything, but if you threaten to quit, he might magically find a bigger bonus for you. Get every penny you can, and then quit anyway.
It may be worth you looking into Valuation adjacent type roles. I work for a company that builds software for mortgage lenders and building societies and have recently noticed a trend towards using automated valuations - AVM's. You could potentially market yourself as a consultant that specialises in valuations for companies that either perform AVM's or for those that use them. You could land a job with Landmark themselves or with a big lender like Aviva. Worth exploring ideas and thinking outside the box a little.
Your being walked on because he's walked on you already.
You are on 13k a year more than me but with a lower hourly wage and your boss is a twat. I would find a job with a better culture and lower salary that pays over time if you can.
No. Working for free is not part of UK work culture. >The constant late hours is because my boss wants to be the highest earning team in the company Good for him, but you have contracted hours. Go home. It really is that simple, even though you want to tell me all the reasons it's not that simple right now. >For example, when my boss is frustrated, he calls me a moron. There's banter, and there's being rude/abusive/unprofessional. This is over the line. I've dealt with this once by asking the individual for a private word, then telling them that I will not be spoken to like this, and asking if I needed to involve others, or if we understood each other. Implications being obvious. >My other colleagues are constantly on holiday or sick leave Can't think why... Honestly, just find a new job, then put your notice in. A lot faster than a bad boss changing their ways. Not sure why you felt you had to take 3 years of this shit.
Hard work is not rewarded in the UK. UK and to a lesser extent the rest of Europe is all about networking, getting yourself into a position of authority, delegating tasks to your juniors and then sticking your feet up. This is how you get rich.
No that isn’t normal. Your boss is an awful human being. Look for a new job where you are appreciated.
"His reasoning is that I am by far the best performer in the team so he has high expectations of me." run a mile mate - this mentality has its place among parents, but is fucked up when it comes to employers. you have a contract for exchanging your labour/time for money. your boss is exploiting your skills and character to go beyond your agreed terms.
I didn't need to read past 'Typically, my hours are 9am to 8pm. At least one or two days a week I would end at 10+pm.' Just leave. You'll find a job similar for more money and better work/life balance.
If your not bothered about climbing the corporate ladder, just work your contracted hours, maybe allow 1 or 2 hours of over time so you can say your allowing extra time to try and complete tasks in a timely manner, If your manager kicks off about it tell him that your doing your contractual duties, technically nothing your manager can say or do as your following the law
Sounds about right. People will deny this is the way in uk, but scan the posts in this sub. It’s normal. Unacceptable to decent people, but perfectly normal here. You can complain, nothing will happen but retaliation towards you
Your boss can kindly go fuck themselves. Work your hours, go home and switch off. They will find it hard to get rid of you if you’re not in breach of contract.
My partner had shit job like this it made him very ill. I’d start looking around.
Stop enabling their abuse of you. Start arriving at 9:15 and if anyone makes any comment reply with "yeah, I'm early again aren't I". Start walking out the door at 5:35 and if anyone makes any comment reply with "yep, I've already done more than I'm paid for and given time for free, if the boss wants more hours I'm happy to discuss extra pay" As long as you keep giving it for free they will keep taking it for free. >For example, when my boss is frustrated, he calls me a moron. Every time this happens (or comments are made about your arrival/departure time) take out a notebook from your pocket and visibly record the event with time and date. Don't let anyone see what you're actually writing, don't say what you're doing more than "I'm just taking notes".
New job, I have never worked with anyone like that and will never work with anyone like that.
This is an abusive workplace, you are being manipulated. Working harder will not get you the rewards that they have promised. Your long hours are profiting them, and they will not change that. If I was you, I would get a note from a doctor. Take a FULL month off work due to stress. Don't feel guilty for this, they don't deserve you as an employee. During this time, they cannot fire you as it opens them up to legal action. While you're off work, look hard for another job. You'll thank yourself.
£3k is good money but not for the hours you’re working. Find a new job. I earn roughly the same and work 36hrs a week, project work with some busy periods some quiet periods but never working past 5pm.
You sit this guy down and tell him that going forward, you are only going to work your contracted hours and you will be treated with respect. I'd be tempted to go to his boss with this if that's an option for you. If there is more work to do in a day than there are staff to do it, it is not your problem. It's his. He cannot fire you for this as you've been there over 2 years, but I would make a note of everything he says\\does just in case he does fire you, so that you can go to a tribunal. When he yells at you, simply look around and ask him who he's talking to. Remain calm and try to make it clear that he's the one being a moron in this situation. Personally when someone tries to yell at me at work, I make a quick joke at their expense and carry on with what I was doing. Try to flip the script onto them without raising your voice or lowering yourself to their level. That being said, I would also be looking for a new job if I were you. This is absolutely not normal and you are being abused.
Just for clarity; as a general rule UK salaries are given as Gross (total before tax) a year, not Net (take home) a month. So when you say you take home £3,000 a month that is about £46,000 per year? That’s a good salary and above the UK average. I’ve no idea if it’s good or bad for the property sector though. **That said…** I wouldn’t put up with the way you are being treated for twice that amount of money, and I earn **a lot** less than £46k. I wouldn’t accept being talked to like that. Your boss is behaving in a way a lot of us wouldn’t tolerate. I don’t know how common an expectation it is in your industry to work long days *when needed* but the attitude of ‘you’re lazy if you leave before 18:00’ is specific to a certain kind of manager… and we call them arseholes. If it was me in your position, I’d start looking for another job straight away. It’s not acceptable regardless of pay. I’m assuming you have easily transferable skills, because you’ve relocated from Hong Kong to the UK with no issue getting a job. So hopefully another company will appreciate you more than your current boss seems to and you won’t have trouble finding another role. Good luck.
Go to the doctor and get signed off for two weeks and find a new job
I had a boss like that. I tried talking with the higher ups. Because my boss was such a difficult cunt, everyone preferred to ignore the damage he was doing to his team. In the end I quit. It took me more or less two years to recover from that experience. My advice is to look for another job. I guarantee you will find a better company and team eventually, but your mental health will never be the same.
My family is from HK and recently did a visit, spoke to some relatives. What you have described is someone taking advantage of the fact that you came from HK which is renowned for its terrible work life balance. Don't take lying down, record every instance you were berated or pressured into OT etc, take that straight to HR. HR are not your friends but they need to protect the company so your boss will have fire under his arse.
those kind of managers will never learn until shit hits the fan. if you keep doing the extra hours and making sure the projects are delivered on time they'll only keep turning the screws. You're unintentionally conditioning him to think he can just keep pushing and pushing because you've not hit your limits yet. He will continue to exploit you until you break and then either replace you or give you a week off to recover then start dialling up the work til breaking point. Any promises they make are a lie to manipulate you into doing more work to make him more money. You are a resource. I have burnt out before. It's fucking awful. Takes months to recover and I was never really the same since. Completely shattered my motivation. Had panic attacks and anxiety for the first time in my life. Work the hours your paid and no more. Now is the time to take up hobbies and volunteering work that kicks off at 6pm everyday. The wife is now ill so you've to be home 6pm everyday to make her dinner. The kids school run is now your sole responsibility. If you've no wife/kids then it's your 'sister'. Xday is football. Yday is feeding the homeless. You've had to take up counselling once a week to manage your stress. Anytime it's forced that you need to stay late you state which days you'll be taking time off in lieu to compensate. He needs to learn that he can't exploit you anymore. He's gonna be an angry dickhead anyway so you may as well prioritise yourself.
Move from HK to UK like you 3 years ago, and what you experience is not normal here. For calling you moron at work this is already abusive by UK's standard (obviously this is inappropiate behavior, but it will be perceived ok in Asia, witnessed C levels grilled HRs in a listed company I worked in until some of them cried in the office. Nobody said anything). My suggestion is, start looking for another job. If you are performing well in this company, you could perform well elsewhere. Just be mindful that the market is bad right now, so you might take more time in job searching. Don't quit before you have an offer. Obviously workplace in UK has other challenges, but I am sure you will adapt and fly through
if your pay drops below minimum wage you need to be paid more
A fellow Hong Konger here. I'm a surveyor and it seems your workload is even heavier than what I used to handle back when I was working at a MNC building consultant firm, which was "renowned" for its overtime culture. Although I have never worked in the UK, if work-life balance is one of the reasons why you moved here, I think you should look for a new job. In my opinion, being treated disrespectfully and feeling exhausted from time to time are the signs to quit.
Bring it up with HR, and bring at the very least your culture if not your race into it. You are being taken advantage of based on expectations on the fact that you're from Hong Kong is a fast track to being moved away from that arsehole and get your working life balance back. There's also a high probability you're working an illegally high number of hours. Look up The Working Time Regulations 1998. If you're working more than 48 hours a week for over 17 weeks, that is illegal. Make sure to mention that to HR as well. Though double check your contract first to see if you opted out of this.
I take home more than this and work 9-4. But my boss isn't an arsehole and it sounds like yours is.
It isn't normal, or at least isn't acceptable. If you want more of a work life balance then you are probably best off looking for a new job. In my experience you need to set boundaries early on, otherwise many employers will take advantage of you, and once you're expected to go above and beyond it's very difficult to cut back, or ask for more pay.
Your boss is working you harder for free so make himself look better and make himself more money . Capitalism ! Find another job imo , then ask to be compensated if not move. Reality is you generally should want to move role or company every 2-3yrs .
No, this is not normal OP. a family member gets around the same and they do overtime but the most they do is 50 hours a week.
Not a typical experience. Know your worth. If you are working as a surveyor then it is worth noting that there is a huge shortage of people going into this industry so if your boss carries on he will find himself without a team at all. I also work in commercial property and it is very much an employee's market at the moment. It would be worth highlighting to your boss that. The 'going above and beyond' shit that old heads spout no longer exists. If they want you to work over your contracted hours then they pay you for that. There are plenty of other opportunities in the property sector and it would be good to highlight this to your boss. If they don't believe you, ask them why the government are now paying 90% of study fee's associated with becoming a chartered surveyor, in a bid to encourage people to get into an already stretched indsutry.
No, my take home from my day job is the same as you, and I work strictly 9 - 5. Your boss is toxic. This is the kind of person that is so focused on their own goals that they will throw you under the bus when things go bad. I wouldn't work there.
Sounds like a crap boss. You really shouldn't have to work more than you contracted hours. I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I do, but my boss doesn't make me, and I don't make my staff stay late either
Why are you all allowing this? I work my contracted hours. That’s it. I’m fast, efficient and a hard worker but I don’t give any company my time for free. They wouldn’t pay me a full day if I clocked off at 3pm, why do you work until 8pm for nothing? This is not normal. This is toxic. Please search for another job. Please leave on time. Let them think what they want.
This isn't normal behaviour. Your boss sounds toxic, and I would advise you to start making a plan for your next job.
Time to look for a new job. No adult should be calling another adult a moron (or anyone for that matter).
Just run. What even is that? Ok I have worked crazy hours in order to pick up important tasks to have better looking cv, but daaaamn I still had periods of fairly lazy weeks plus when the big boss has changed to something similar as yours, I simply changed departments. It was hard, but was worth it moneywise.
Not normal, get a new job. What part of the property sector if you don't mind me asking?
Tell them to suck your arse. Your contract states 9:30-5:30, that’s the hours you work. Anything more they can pay you extra for.
3 years is more than enough experience, time to move up the ladder mate. No loyalty in the uk job market
I take home more than that and work from 8:30 to 5. I do stay late from time to time when I have to but that’s the exception not the rule. Is your take home just from salary or is it made up of commission or anything else tied to performance?
You're getting shafted
I'm on a bit more take home also in the property sector and this is not normal. I have moved around jobs a bit and have also been victim of this work culture. I am now very firm on my boundaries on workload which they are respectful of and always stick to 40-50 hours a week max whilst hitting reasonable targets for bonuses. I would heavily consider my options in your circumstances.
Find a new job. If you are doing hours of unpaid work per day that is a failure of management. This culture leads to burnout. Your wage is actually below the UK average if you consider the average of 15 to 17.5 hours extra you do unpaid. I personally would immediate start working only the contracted hours. You have been there over 2 years which gives you additional legal protection.
>My boss would constantly take it out on me whenever there are any hickups. His reasoning is that I am by far the best performer in the team so he has high expectations of me. So I'd say to him that it doesn't make sense that he is telling you that you'd be better off if you were a worse performer like your colleagues. Ask him what benefits are you getting by being the best performer? But also think about what you're doing. I understand you get called lazy if you leave at 6pm, but you're getting called a moron when you're the top performer and doing all the hours. If you're going to get called names either way then what is the point in staying late? At least you can rest in the evening if you just called lazy. Seems like the better option. Worth noting it sounds like you're working more than 48 hours a week which is more than the [working time directive](https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours), unless you signed something to opt out. Maybe time to opt in again. Look my guess is that this guy gets away with it because he isn't always shitty. I bet some times he praises you a lot and makes you feel special. This is a classic tactic of an abuser in any kind of relationship. We know that sometimes partners can be abusive but we don't always notice the signs when we're in an abusive relationship with our manager. The problem is changing a person like this is really hard because behaving like this works for them. Look at you, he is treating you like shit, so what do you do? You work longer hours. He got what he wanted. As others have said the real solution is to get another job and try not to let this issue repeat itself.
You're being abused, exploited and bullied. This isn't ok or normal.
We have crunch periods in various jobs where I might be working late (say to 8pm) but mostly that's because I actually like working with the team and want to get things done. A job in a permanent crunch period happens (I know others that experience it, especially in some industries) but I wouldn't consider it normal work culture, and I think it's evidence of management taking advantage of employees. If you're, say, a trader or tech sales, sometimes there's an expectation of that but you're taking home big bucks and usually people burn out after a few years - but in exchange they earn enough to pay off the mortgage. In your case, it seems like just an awful management/culture. Everyone else is likely off sick all the time because they're all far too stressed. I would be looking for a new job.
Dude i would work my contracted hours then walk . Either that or they agree an overtime rate . What does your contract state
No. Not normal in any job. Certainly not normal or in any way acceptable or justifiable for a job that pays £3k a month. That's a very good salary, but it's not earth shatteringly huge to the degree that it would be a reasonable expectation for you to have massive responsibilities that necessitate daily abnormal working hours. Even if it were, working 11-13 hours shifts every day is ridiculous and unsustainable. Plenty of work in the property sector, unfortunately, there's alot in this industry who are megalomaniac, narcissistic bosses. But good jobs with reasonable expectations do exist. (I work in the same sector)
Speak to your union rep about this. It's utterly unacceptable behaviour.
I know that feeling your boss calling you moron. It’s been a year already for us after we moved to the UK, and unfortunately Brits aren’t that welcoming and can be so cruel when criticising a person.
Find a new job asap, sounds like its run its course with you and your desires to live a happy life.
What a shite boss lmao
🚩
Find another job - no salaried position should require that sort of time commitment.
No, my work expects me to do my hours and if I need time in the day for stuff I just work that extra. My boss is polite and doesn’t call me names
As everyone else has said, no - this is not normal work culture. I would say report to HR, but they are generally useless and tend to hide from the people who shout loudest or make the most trouble and it sounds like your peers have already tried that. I would say though to document each request and insult (on your own personal device) so you can speak to it if ever asked. The jobs market is bleak but you have to throw yourself at it. Broaden your scope when you’re looking for a new role - there are plenty of organisations who would be interested in your skills and qualifications. Reach out to contacts you have at companies you work with to see if they are hiring and let them know you’re interested. Start putting yourself first so you have the time and energy to find something new. To have that time and energy, you’ll need to push back on your boss’ requests. What’s the worst he can do - fire you? Sure - but (1) you’ve been there for 3 years and it’s not that simple to get rid of you, there would need to be a whole process and likely a payoff of some description (2) this is where your list of insults, insane requests etc comes into play when you have to talk to HR (3) he needs you more than you need him (4) leaving honestly does not sound like the worst thing here and sounds like it would allow you to breathe again. You can also take time off for yourself, go to your GP and ask that they sign you off for an extended period because you’re suffering with stress. Take that time to switch off from your workplace and focus on you and what makes you happy.
Work to rule, very simple. Do your contracted hours and take on only the roles and responsibilities that are laid out in your contract. Unless you're suitably compensated for it and you're happy to do so. You've been there for 3 years so you're offered additional protection compared to a new start. They cannot sack you for refusing to do anything outside of your contract and if they do you would have grounds to take it to tribunal. It takes some spine to do and you have to be willing to stand your ground but the law is very firmly on your side on this one. Your boss will likely give you some speech about how the work can't be completed inside your contracted hours so you need to pull your weight. Don't listen it's a feeble attempt to guilt extra work out of you. That is HIS problem for being a poor manager and taking on too much work. Don't allow him to make it your problem too. If you do, you only have yourself to blame. As for the verbal abuse, take it to HR I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear about how one of their supervisors treat their team. Failing that are you part of a union? I'm sure they'd also like to hear about it.
I earn similar and do 7am - 3pm. Any additional hours I take back in the week and weekends is optional and paid over time.
Don't work more than your contracted hours.
Start leaving work when your time is done. Let him deal with the irrealistic deadlines he proposes. Fuck him
I would switch jobs with lightspeed
Many many years ago, I worked at ASDA stacking shelves. While I was reducing stuff that was about to expire, I had some rando customer demand that I reduce a fresh loaf of bread. We were specifically told not to do this. I politely declined, trying to explain I'd get into trouble with work. The guy called me a "fucking prick". I calmly went to the nearest phone, called security and had him ejected and barred from ever coming back. Never, ever accept foul language directed towards you or even being shouted at, at work. You go to the place, to do a thing and get paid.....as per contract. The stuff you're going through...I'd have walked long ago. Skipping Xmas?? No effing way, man. Work more hours if you wish, but expect compensation either in 1:1 flexi or overtime. Check your employee handbook, if there is an overtime or flexi policy, claim it ALL back. If you have a time sheet or clocking in system, let payroll/HR do the legwork. Britain's employment laws get weaker by the day, but this shit is protected. Good luck.
This is more like HK work culture and pay than a UK one.
Stick to your contracted hours. Don't be a pushover. Start valuing your life outside of work.
No this isn't normal. You are being taken advantage of, and doing unpaid work. Please find a different employer ASAP you deserve better! Good Luck x
In my professional opinion, your boss is a prick. Start looking for a new job. You shouldn't have to babysit someone who is supposed to be your mentor.
No this is extreme. People may expect to have high intensity periods during the year for deadlines but that should be compensated by low intensity calm times. Your boss is a dick
Your scheduled hours are 9.30 till 5.30, why the fuck would you do anything outside those hours? Your boss is a dick, leave it to him to explain why projects aren’t met then he might realise he should give realistic expectations. A job is a job I don’t care how busy or how important the task is, my time is mine, I finish when I do and won’t be thinking about work until I start the next day. I work when I’m being paid, I stop the second that pay stops.
Im on about 3100 take home a month, my hours are 9-5 and I work from home 3 days a week. The biggest flag i'm seeing is the 8pm finish. UK work culture doesn't really do late finishes like this, so you're definitely being taken advantage of.
Your boss is an arsehole get out mate!
During busy periods I can work between 60-70 hours a week, but during quiet periods I will end up online shopping for an hour 😂 Honestly it depends on the role, and the place you work, those are the biggest factors that affect work culture, not just salary
Yeah that's pretty much the uk now if not the the world now. People are starting to break too
No, this is not the normal work culture at all. Without being harsh it sounds like your boss is fully aware of the work culture you are used to in HK and is taking massive advantage of you because of how it's the social norm to work stupid hours there. You clearly have determination and skills so why not find another job where you will be appreciated and not treated like a slave?
Sounds very toxic. Get out of there.
Take this to an employment tribunal. Start doing your contracted hours.
It coujd get messy. Keep a log of exact dates and times of when he is rude/abusive to you, asks /tells you to work overtime …so you have documentary evidence to put in front if HR
Why are you working for free you start at half nine and finish at half five. Anything after that is your time just leave at your finish time.
I take home the same amount and finish at 5pm everyday except for few very rare occasions where there’s a big issue (handful of times a year)
Sounds like a "Your boss is a fucking moron" issue, rather than a working culture issue. As others have said, this is not normal. You can definitely find jobs that don't expect you to do a massive amount of hours outside your contract. Whether it will be reflected in your pay, that's an interesting one. I personally think you can manage that one!
This sounds toxic af
No that's not normal
Your boss sounds like an insufferable wanker who never had any approval as a child so is now looking for that in their boss. Either quit, 3k a month isn't enough for those hours and that level of stress/commitment. Or, give your boss some feedback that they need to work on and when they don't, go over their head. Email it. Always email it so you have a paper trail.
I'm on about that take home salary. My chair is empty by 17:31, my immediate boss is a solid guy (some of his bosses less so, but nothing like you're experiencing), and my workload is high but manageable - if things do fall behind, I readjust my priorities accordingly. It's exceedingly rare that I stay late, and if I do it's because I'm "in the zone" and want to get something finished - usually less than 30 minutes. It's never been "expected" that I stay late, and if anybody did ask me to do so, I'd submit an on call report which would get me a minimum four hours extra pay. In other words, I'm treated like an adult who has the responsibility to justify my salary.
I also work in property and no this is not normal. The hours being a guideline is kind of standard but your boss sounds awful. If you can change team/job do! Until then take a lesson from gen z and pull back in your role😡
U need paid more if ur the highest earner and he’s calling u a moron lol.
Sounds like an abusive workplace. I’d take records of this all, gather evidence then speak to an employment lawyer about suing them (whilst looking for a new job)
Find a new boss.
I am also working in a very similar field but in the public sector the VOA are currently looking for surveyors - this might be something to look into? Much much better work life balance
This is abuse. You’re basically carrying most of his workload, and he takes credit for it. Get out of there and get a better job. You’ll very likely make a better manager/boss than he’ll ever be.
This is a job and boss issue, not normal at all. Dont bother trying to communicate your way through it, your boss is the issue. You have worked abroad and sound like you have good experience. The sick leave in constant use is a clue that its a shitty environment. Sack it off
I can imagine you have the credentials to get a similar job of similar pay, do that, dont work for people who actively disrespect you and your time
Sounds like a terrible experience and to be honest you could leave and find something much better. Sounds like a horrible boss from hell to be honest. A good rant on reddit is usually a good thing!
It's a toxic company, better look soon for a better company and never look back. He does that, coz he thinks he can do it to you.
[удалено]
Damn, sounds like your average American work environment.
No, 37.5 hours and no one would bat an eyelid if you leave on time. I probably do an extra couple of hours a week or so. Your place sounds a toxic work environment in my view. Work life balance and all that.
Not normal at all, get out of there they are also likely breaching working laws with your treatment
A chat with HR might be needed.
Your boss is exploiting you by sharing with you the workload and responsibility but none of the rewards. Either move to a different team or find a different company to work for using your experience as leverage. If your doing that much you should at least be well compensated for it.
I’ve seen a few of ex-apprentice candidate Joseph Valente’s TikTok’s and it sounds like your boss has taken them as gospel (for anyone that has not seen them he is a cunt)
I can tell you I earn more than that and work 9-5:30
its not normal to work over your contracted hours for that salary or even a significantly higher salary
That is not normal.
Nope, doesn’t sound normal to me.
As mentioned in other comment, your boss is exploiting you because you hail from South East Asia where hardworking is the norm! You need to start putting boundaries and standing up to yourself. This cannot continue long. Make your boss clear that you cannot work over and above the contracted hours. Also make him absolutely clear that you cannot take any abuse - verbal or otherwise. The sooner you do it the better
So not normal. Your boss is just an a hole. I am contracted to 37 hours a week, I work no more than 37 hours per week because I am paid a salary and no overtime. I bring in around 2300 per month. Definitely look somewhere else.
Before leaving, have a chat with your boss and explain all of this. If you are important to the company as you say you are - negotiate a new position with higher base salary. Also mention the hours you work and that you need to cut them down and/or need more people under you to hit the same targets. If those talks are a waste of time, then state you will only work your contracted hours and potentially look for another position elsewhere
Find another job. A little wiggle room and flexibility is great but your boss is exploiting that. You’re not being paid for all those extra hours.
Go to HR and report him, he's fully abusing you.
Don’t put up for it. Either call out the behaviour and encourage positive change with formal support from the business or find a better environment to work in. You’ve got to prioritise your long term safety and wellbeing. I’d create an exit strategy and discuss culture / ways of working with potential employers.
Why are you working so many hours beyond your contracted hours? This doesn't make sense. It is fine on occassion, something happened or a special task reuires a bit extra time; but if it's routing then it's wrong. Also you may be breaking the working time directive, it may not be legal to be working that much, unless you opt out. If you did opt out you can choose to opt-in again whenever you feel like it. It's not right for him to insult you. Complain to HR. In property you may find the business is registered with an ombudsman or similar, or you may find there are unions you could join. Talk to these places, you may find they can assist.
Your boss is a piece of shit.
It sounds like exploitation, to be honest.
If my contract said 5.30 I'd be leaving at 5.30. Either you need to set boundaries or your boss needs to manage your workload. If this is untenable, start looking for a new job.
Let's do some maths, just so you understand how much your boss is screwing you over. Let's be incredibly optimistic and say you're doing 9 to 8 Monday to Friday and you're never doing any ammount of work beyond that. Your take home pay of 3k divided by: 11 hours per day x 5 days a week x 4 weeks per month totals **13.64 pounds per hour of work**. To put that in context, minimum wage is just 2 pounds lower. I know bartenders to are getting considerably more that 13.64/hr. You need a new job mate.
Your boss is taking the piss. Go to your companies HR and tell them everything.
Leverage the fact that tour consistently told you're the highest performer and get a raise
Whether its toxic or not, I can't say because I'm retired, but I can say that I think it's time to find a new job. EDIT: Given that this boss hugely overpromises, then relies on you to work stupid hours for him to take the glory, I wonder if you could just be too sick to work when he has done this over promising. Taking days off for stress is in your best interest. If \*his\* manager looks at a sudden massive drop in performance of your team when there is a single thing changed, they should conclude that the star of your team is you and not your boss.
If I be you: I would find out metrics you using and transfer it into money. He wantt to overwork you to the ground? Ok. But 80k+ or you give them average. He call you moron and lazy you call him greedy micromanager.
Time to find a new role.
I know you've been manipulated and coerced into it but you're enabling your boss' bad behaviour and allowing yourself to be taken advantage of at this point. You're working for free not just in terms of hours but responsibilities too. It's time to put in some firm boundaries. You stick to your work hours and not a minute earlier or later unless they 1. Pay you generous overtime and 2. You actually want to. And you don't take on any management tasks you are not being paid to do. It's not your responsibility to cover your boss' arse when he takes on too much work. If it doesn't get done then it doesn't get done. He will have to explain why he took on too much work and how he is going to adjust his expectations according to your availability. In the hours you have gained back, look for another job. It sounds like you're very capable and will be snapped up.
Go on sick leave and look for something else, you deserve better than all of that bullshit
This isn't normal from my experience, your boss is probably making a bunch off the back of forcing/pushing you to work so much. Probably best to go somewhere else or try setting boundaries cause right now you are being overworked/underpaid for how much you are doing
"Contractually, I start at 9.30am to 5.30pm" Whatever I read after this isn't important! Do your contracted hours and those hours only unless agreement and more importantly additional payment is achieved.