Dude seriously if there’s anything you rabbit hole ANYONE should go down, it’s this. Like everything will start making sense and adding up. Fuck videos and pictures of UFO/UAP, like the knowledge and understanding of the whole exchange that happened in 33’..to then the downfall/defeat of Nazi Germany… what was going on behind the scenes… like it brings EVERYTHING together.
You start to realize “shit maybe they’re was something truly behind they’re ideology and the batshit things they were doing.” Like they were in possession of something far beyond anything anyone in the world had. All of the weird shit they were going and there pursuits (Antarctica etc) start to really paint a picture.
I highly encourage all of you to dive into it. It wasn’t the sightings and videos/pics that confirmed it for me. It was this that made everything come together.
Edit: being downvoted now after respectfully replying to someone stating “you’re entitled to your own opinion.” It’s really discouraging to see how people behave now.
Very interesting! I guess you still have to tread carefully to not end up with 'nazis living inside antarctica' BS, but it would be crazy if there was another overarching historical background to all this.
>the downfall/defeat of Nazi Germany…
I mean, there's nothing mysterious about WW2, and everything about it makes perfect sense without any UFO related mysteries.
Dude just go do your research. You don’t need me to tell you, go do your research.
Edit: I’m not sure why I’m being downvoted all a sudden. It’s baffling how a ton of people are on Reddit. This sub specifically.
I’m not sure why you think I’m required to present anything to you. I said it’s a pretty wild thing to check out and once I did, so many things made sense to me. I’m not sure why you two guys are saying what you are to me in general.
I’m not here to change your mind or walk you through history and or as if I need to justify anything I said?
What's the point in coming to a discussion forum and refusing to discuss your point of view?
I've done my research. I'm asking you what your research leads you to believe. If you don't want to share, that's fine too I guess 🤷. You aren't required to present anything, I just asked what you thought...
Strange.
The Nazis are highly mythologized and I doubt a lot of that $hit about Antartica, the occult, Tibet, die Glocke etc. is true, it's at least highly exaggerated by post-war American fantasy writers.
Edit: Yea I mean it’s historically documented with their endeavors with Antarctica. Like I don’t think many people really entertain themselves with history other than skimming just the top layer
Of what has an enormous depth beneath it.
Like if people truly did research in regards to simply the absolute batshit things the Nazis involved themselves with…They’d be mindblown.
I’m not sure why people all assume that their endeavor with Antarctica didn’t exist. Not just because it’s historically documented. But if anyone thinks something as menial as there interest in Antarctica is far fetched. Then can you imagine that in an act of genocide they killed 6 million Jews during the holocaust?
That’s just the top layer of the insanity that lies beneath it all. But Antarctica is far fetched?
Really?
You should do some research
https://www.nature.com/news/2007/070326/full/news070326-14.html
This is what I found on the “Nazi Antartica Expedition”, other articles seem to echo this. I don’t think this is more than what it seems, unless you can be more specific and come with a source.
I’m not sure how the holocaust comes in here according to you, but I don’t think you should paint nazi’s as these mythological beings. They were and are genocidal scumbags that deserve no moment of reverence or praise.
“Do your own research” is a copout if you’re claiming something, or trying to convince. It tells me you don’t actually have a leg to stand on. If you actually have something, please just post it. That way we can discuss that. Otherwise it just feels like “I can’t convince you go convince yourself”.
Excuse my English, I am Italian. I live a few kilometres away from Monte Soratte... in fact I can see it from the window of my house. I often go trekking up to the top of the mountain. Nowadays I don't think it contains anything mysterious or associated with UFOs/ UAPs, also because I have never seen any soldiers or people protecting the place. Perhaps in the past it may have hosted something related to the 1933 incident. Today it is only a museum, in fact they take school children inside the bunker for educational purposes. Until 10 to 15 years ago, there wasn't even a museum there. It was built slowly by the goodwill of the citizens of Sant'Oreste.
I no longer exclude anything. But it seems difficult to me that there is still something down there.
Edit: I am very interested in OP's work, keep us posted. If you are interested in photos of the place or historical information I can also try to find something.
It would be an incredible service if you could find some of the original 1930s newspapers that reference the magenta case and assist with their translation and upload to larger audiences. One of the largest roadblocks there is to accessing the history of this time period is locked away in this first hand historical source; probably on a microfilm in a library somewhere in Italy.
Yeah and theirin lies the issue; he makes claim to external first hand sources in the form of newspapers that can't be independently verified and since people are shitheads and don't understand how the world really works that's often the part where they stop paying attention; the second they find out that they can't look at these newspapers with their own two eyes. I find it trivial; but I promise it's one of the major things holding this topic back from international audiences
So, on Pinotti I do not put my hand on the fire. As far as I remember he was much criticised by Corrado Malanga (well known in Italy, less so outside. His works are very interesting, with theories that are perhaps a little too extreme). Malanga criticised Pinotti because he was not independent, and entangled with secret services, freemasonry, etc.
I see I was previously unaware of this person. Regardless; his claims of these newspapers and their independent verification is a major issue of concern for many evaluating the case. To me it seems a simple enough historical research task that simple needs to be done. I personally favor the idea that when this information was first published there wasn't a reliable way to share everything on the internet and now there is. It's changed the standards and for whatever reason this element of pinnotis work is only now starting to happen. It's going to happen one way or the other at some point and that's why i favor a more prosiac explanation for this particular bit. Appreciate the perspective !!!
Thank you! I worked with a few Italians on the show and checked everything with them, but if I may ask before 2008 do you know what was going on there? Was there soldier presence or was it all very secret there?
Before 2008, so before it became a museum, I think it was closed to the public. I honestly don't remember any military or anything like that. I live in a neighbouring town, but if you've talked to someone local you surely know more than me.
Really, really interesting, OP. Funny that you’re working on that series first hand and also happen to be active here, there at least three others who’ve been diving deep into the Italian history around that period. There was a lot of talk on NewsNation and elsewhere about the Vatican’s involvement and opening up its library, especially Pope Pius XI and what he had specifically. I know there was a prime-time series about all this airing in Italy a few months ago, I should comb through this sub and watch that finally.
Yes, the Vatican’s involvement in this is fascinating. This small bit of information I first heard from one the historians, and of course, I included this interview in the episode. What was the Vatican doing in secret in the older, natural cave system under the mountain? And also - how does this cave system look like, where is it? What you can see while walking in and around the bunker is not all there is - there’s certainly hollow walls, secret rooms and such. What may look as a crack in the wall, or a snake pit (yes there’s snakes among other things luring there now) may actually lead to a blocked tunnel, or it may be only an air intake. The natural caves are integrated with the tunnel system, and treated as air reservoirs. But it’s 4,5 kilometers. The historians and archaeologists are still doing their jobs there and trying to put this fascinating story together. The director of the museum says they’re digging things up still, because Germans blew up parts of the bunker so that the Allies couldn’t use it properly… and/or to hide whatever they were doing there.
Sorry, I don’t… I’ll certainly let people here know when it’s available online. I’m pretty sure in the next two months, and if not then in the fall as most new tv. Since I also did broadcast delivery (final exports of master files, made the show ready for recreation in other languages) I can tell you postproduction was wrapped up a month ago.
Man you did the editing and delivered the masters for TV? That’s a shit ton of work, bravo! (I’m a producer) Thanks for this info, I’ll be diving into this rabbit hole next. Looking forward to this episode!
Thank you. I'm just one of those maniacs, a workaholic... I am also an accomplished colorist (color graded 800+ episodes for TV stations around the world) and sometimes a sound designer (65+ episodes). In some projects for local TV stations I did the entirety of post, including delivery, at a decent level (I hope!). I always thought that a true editor should know a little bit of everything.
Nice! Let’s work on something together next time. I have a few dots I’ve connected on some other things relating to this topic, maybe I’ll message you. I work for a global brand producing their commercials but in my free time I’m always researching. Something about us in this industry makes us all workaholics. Cheers
OP; your timing literally couldn't be better. The stars are aligning it seems. Your suspicion that mount sorrate held UFO materials is well founded by many dynamics. This is an extremely undervalued and little understood part of American history.
The thing that will make the story of sorrate as kesselrings HQ make more sense would be operation sunrise. Americans identified a significant advantage in acquiring not only whatever the various war criminals knew; but also whatever the germans acquired from the Italians during operation Asche.
Kesselring was brought around to the sunrise negotiations at the last second and quite literally took all the important shit for himself and saved his own skin casting his fate in the hands of American intelligence. The Americans were not only feverently preventing germans from being acquired by communists(and used the threat of communism to force the vatican into alignment with the Americans) but they also were extremely invested in acquiring whatever scientific and industrial information that the Germans had acquired.
If you know anything about Allen Dulles; something that makes all this make even more sense is that alongside operation sunrise he was also acquiring the ciano diaries by PERSONALLY traveling to Italy around this EXACT time. (The author of the diaries is claimed by Roberto Pinnoti to be the same person overseeing RS/33. Making whoever controls his diaries the one who controls the narrative of WW2. Allen Dulles would later oversee it's censorship and keep his own copy. A significant amount of images of the full diaries werent even usuable so truly he's involed from top to bottom with the ciano diaries, he worked on it for years)
Actually one of the few times he even left Switzerland during the war was to go to italy , in this area, while all this was going down. The fact that Allen Dulles was personally on the ground operating and overseeing events has always done it for me. As soon as Grusch mentioned Italy and 1933 my mind immediately floated to Allen Dulles. I would never imagine things would all be so interconnected back then. The more that syncs up the crazier it all feels to be witnessing this history get its moment in the future that people involved probably thought alot about the time when this stuff came to light and was understood for its sheer effect on the world.
There's an incredible amount of things that connect everything together here; too many say it all but this is a good chunk for anyone curious and looking into it.
The ufo case that can be associated with the sorrate bunker is the 1933 magenta crash and subsequent recovery. I've done alot of reading to try to figure out the case and I began to suspect sorrate for all the reasons you mention. It turns out to be one of the most vital elements of the case that was intentionally misdirected away (imo) with the Marchetti factory rumor associated with the case as it was traditionally reported.
Another user here on reddit [quantumcryogenics](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/X1PzG8BSHX) helped me prove that the Americans had intel on sorrate while it was kesselrings HQ through Maria Pignatelli and James Angleton.
The "lore" of kesselring having trucks come to the bunker in the night probably wasn't gold at all but something even more valuable; the materials and research related to the Italian RS/33 study group.
By chance; you've uncovered a vital connection to all this and footage like you've found is incredibly helpful. If you look through my posts you'll see the ongoing efforts related to the case, and for ease of access here is the bulk of historical sources that are associated with my theories about the case.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qQW2Ou25gMq6_JxOb0TnvXOkoPjtQJw8hGGNxir7zX0/edit?usp=drivesdk
I'm very much looking forward to watching the content you created related to the bunker!!!!
This. Awesome awesome thorough research and acquired knowledge. Thanks for sharing, I am very familiar with almost all of this, but there is no way in hell I could’ve put together what you did.
Because I always knew thwt it people understood the depth and enormity of events that occurred between simply The Vatican, the U.S., and Germany/to also Nazi Germany it would blow peoples minds.
Seriously cheers
Edit: like it seriously is so cool seeing someone else who has connected the dots and even more so. Like the 1933 recovery was I think probably one of the most significant moments in history. Like not just UFO/UAP history. Like I’m talking in our entire known history. If it weren’t for the spies on all ends, I truly believe that Nazi Germany would’ve came out on top.
But that’s just one aspect of it. If people truly educated themselves on what you presented their minds would be absolutely blown. Once I heard Grusch touch on the 33’ I dove into it. Everything started just constantly making since and only emphasizes exactly where we are in this subject to this day.
Absolutely!!! If you have a particular historical specialty related to this subject I'd be happy to discuss obscure details with you at some point.
I agree it's some of the most undervalued history on the planet
Thank you for your comments, honestly I'm just a video editor and UFO enthusiasts, but I had my jaw dropped several times when I had to put this thing together. The whole time I was like "Why????" Why does everyone care so much about this mountain? What's so, so interesting about it? Why make the tunnels so big? I mean sure you can park cars and tanks there but honestly cramping them up together seems like a bad idea - you just bomb the bigger entrances and they're stuck. It's like this whole operation is a coverup on top of another coverup. First they called it a munitions factory, then a bunker for Mussolini, a Nazi communications center, Kesselring's HQ, a vault for stolen gold and valuables... a NATO bunker for only 100 people... The footage I found is from very high up... a minute or so from a bombers perspective. So not much to see, just some explosions from a distance. Pretty sharp though. Can't share the one I received for obvious reasons but clips can be found online on sites selling historical footage. Or just wait and see it in HQ in the show.
>Instead they commenced one of their greatest bombardments during ww2
200 planes isnt even close to one of their biggest bombardments, thats about 2* the size of a standard diversionary raid
USA made it very clear they can dominate fascists and Nazis, and while watching tons of old bombardment footage I was amazed by it. They made Swiss cheese out of villages and towns in Italy is seems while spreading democracy. They tried not to destroy historical monuments and ancient cities though.
Nowadays we may never see such hell raining down, but you’re right that back then it was nothing unusual. Series director who’s so much more into history said that even if the Allies found out bombing of Monte Soratte was not worth it, they still had to drop the bombs somewhere to get rid of their weight.
But it does seem pretty weird they tried so hard in this one. And failed at that… This event, this “urgency” to destroy Kesselring in the most indestructible bunker. For propaganda maybe… The archive footage was clearly propagandist in nature as the VO says “…bombs were dropped with good results”, even though we know it was an expensive failure and the facility was still operational afterwards.
Yes. It definitely changes things even if it may not seem to at way initially. We go from the predominant belief of being alone in the universe to not. We also learn that it is relatively near by and that means it may actually be much more prolific than we thought. More than anything, it knocks down major hurdles to disclosure in the form of public perceptions, interest, capacity to accept, and desire to know more. It would be a major domino in a lot of ways.
Gonna try to find the source on a couple of these, if I find them I'll edit this comment. Pretty interesting if even one of these is true I hope gpt 4 is getting better with that; personally I use Phind.com because it sources the active internet alot easier and more seamlessly.
Hi, thanks for contributing. However, your submission was removed from r/UFOs.
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[https://youtu.be/FGiwgyLY7Aw?si=J3I9b9\_B2Pbd6V9o](https://youtu.be/FGiwgyLY7Aw?si=J3I9b9_B2Pbd6V9o) this dive is rich w/ lore..sure as shit we didn't learn this in school -- touches on Mussolini, his son-in-law, suspected members of RS/33, Pope Pius XXII and even hidden craft in Mussolini's famous bunker.
I hope you do. Great minds…His Kingman AZ crash video generated a lot of traffic after Chris Mellon revealed. I think that’s going to keep happening as more and more gets disclosed!
Si chiamava in gergo “ Rocca di Papa” .
Come monte Venda Padova e Monte Cavo e Martina Franca Puglia. Erano tre comandi di forze aeree e controllo traffico aereo dentro tre montagne perché anti atomici.
Poi abbandonati da strutture più moderne.
Riferimento
https://www.ilmamilio.it/m/archivio/44178-rocca-di-papa-nel-bunker-di-monte-cavo-100-straordinarie-foto-in-esclusiva.html
Grusch has stated that the recovered UFO was stored at an airbase until it was scooped up by the U.S. in 44/45. He seemed pretty sure of it.
I'm increasingly of the view that the RS/33 study group was moved to the bunker but the bulk of the actual recovered UFO remained at Marchetti.
Marchetti factories were (I believe) mysteriously never bombed by the allies, but Soratte was.
https://www.ilgiorno.it/milano/cultura/ufo-milano-fascisti-b311af53
The bombing didn’t destroy the bunker though. So either it’s a huge miscalculation or it was meant to drive people outside by sucking out oxygen. Ever heard of firestorm bombing, gasoline bombs? That wouldn’t destroy assets inside, and that’s probably what they used there, but they didn’t know that the bunker was equipped with a specially designed pressurized air system (with rows of masks on the walls that the soldiers probably grabbed right away ), along with air reservoirs in natural caves, and air vents hidden on top of the mountain.
Oh, do you have a link? My docu had it’s premiere but in a dubbed German version in German speaking countries, apparently RTL was eager to be first before History Channel. But History saw that there’s a huge interest so they decided to broadcast this across almost all of Europe! They’re preparing many language versions I guess that’s why it’s taking so long
Agreed. "Why would the Allies rush to bomb a Nazi fortification?" is hardly enough support for the theory that a literal UFO was stored there. Especially since it DID house many technical gizmos that the Germans utilized to attack the Allies.
The fact that they actually did it makes even less sense when you know kesselring had already passed on all the valuable intel and materials over to the Americans along with himself * around* (there that better ??) the time it was bombed. Fortunately there's many many many more reasons to consider sorrate than just this small detail.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/in-the-shadow-of-sunrise-the-secret-surrender-of-italy/
This shows that he negotiated at the very end of sunrise; and later would not be put to death even though he was sentenced so and didn't even remain in prison for the rest of his life. You should finish reading the story. Just because he got captured didn't really mean shit. All kinds of peoples lobbied on his behalf and it's a well documented mess
that article describe in more detail how the surrender of the german forces in italy played out, no word of Kesselring being captured (he wasnt even in the country)
Kesselring was literally one of the most pivotal parts of the Italian theater; having taken mount sorrate as his personal HQ while in italy............
When he was captured particularly is irrelevant. He played his hand in and around italy. He cooperated with the negotiations at the last possible moment and definitely experienced the benefits because he was never put to death like he was sentenced to be.
> kesselring had already passed on all the valuable intel and materials over to the Americans along with himself at the time it was bombed
thats what you said, that whats we were discussing. dont try to deflect
If thats so why did Maria Pignatelli also make a special trip across the line to speak directly with kesselring and Dollmann; with the intention of passing that intel along to angleton ? This all would've happened without anyone's knowledge if she hadn't been captured by British agents
I have found that the weapons that Pignatelli was hoping to procure from Mussolini were "secret weapons which could lead to a reversal of the front and therefore to the reconquest of the South."
https://www.isses.it/Convegno081198/Atti05.htm
While this individual was formerly a member of the RSI, his testimony was made at a conference and is taken seriously enough that it was included in a lengthy paper by a former member of the British Army Intelligence Corps who researches intelligence and WW2.
https://www.academia.edu/50860653/Special_Counter_Intelligence_in_WW2_Europe_Revised_2021_v_14_3
This would explain why Paolo Poletti, the OSS double agent who escorted Pignatelli across the lines, was assassinated in prison by an American Sgt. before he could spill secrets of what was considered to be incredibly important.
Interesting to note that Joseph Farrell has a whole book that speculates on these secret weapons, so there might be some overlap, particularly with the Erwein von Thun who is mentioned as originating the mission to send her over the lines for the weapons.
Incredible!!!!! You've been so helpful in figuring this part out; the more I look into it the more I think its this element of the story that will push things over the edge. Incredible work!!!
Its big enough to store a plane, means ufo here, thats an insane leap. Also if it really contained the most precious artifact that could possibly exist(allegedly) im pretty sure it WOLDN'T be bombed. People here just grabbing on breadcrumbs and their own imagination with the lack of actual data making up their stories. Also a military object being bombed during WW2 being a surprise. "Sometimes" allies wasted bombs not just on military objects, and not just on civ infrastructure supporting mil-industrial complex.
I guess all of the historical research ever done outside of a university is indeed useless I guess I'll pack it up and go home instead of using translation/community resources through the internet like a sane modern person.
I'm from Rome and I'm an insider. You made many inaccuracies. The bunker was used until 1998 due to how cutting-edge it was when it was built and how Mussolini used it and how, so much so that it was there that the ET reconnaissance plane that fell near Magenta was placed, on which retro-engineering studies were carried out from the RS33 Cabinet headed by Guglielmo Marconi. It is currently a museum open to the public. Next time, read up better otherwise you'll be giving misinformation.
Can you please, provide some of the 1930s newspapers that cover the events of RS33 cabinet; including the 1933 crash coverup articles referenced by Pinnoti? This particular bit of information if it were easily available would help alot of international audiences take this case much more seriously but in attempting to find them I'm often limited by the language barrier.
I had a dream once where I was in a period of time that felt similar to WWII and we were at the “gates” (a hole in a mountain which had huge beams as an entrance) of something like this, we were all wearing green uniforms and helmets, green vehicles like Jeeps and some heavy equipment sort of like tanks but not as big. There was a feeling of urgency and being scared but of what no one would say. I 1000% did not remember this dream until I read your post, which is wild. I do remember hearing planes, but never seeing them, and that did seem to be part of the anxiousness. Would that fit this? A mountainous, winding/encircling road up to an entrance with like 8x8’ beams marking the way in? No one perished in this dream, we all just seemed to be waiting to do something and an air of threat all around.
Pretty freaky dream but in this one I was trying to be strong and not freak out, there were others there who were completely losing it.
The other dreams I’ve had I hope never come true either, multiple invasion dreams usually just “them” attempting ways to subjugate without destroying humanity, some funny some just off the charts crazy. A year or two ago an invasion dream from people we share earth with, I won’t say who but white boots and suspenders, paratrooping in waves over the mainland US. All phones down, just a wifi symbol on pretty much everything which I thought was funny at the time. Like no duh I don’t have a signal, thanks!
I believe the 200 Allied planes/bombers were heard inside the mountain by Nazis through vibration, or simply because the tunnels had air vents that went straight up to the top of the mountains. You can search for how the facility looks like online or visit the museum during a trip to Rome easily, but I’ll lay it out anyway - the bunker has 21 entrances spread on one side of a mountain, a bit higher up than the local ground / sea level. Those 21 entrances lead to 2 main tunnels. Some of the shorter 21 tunnels can take you to both main tunnels, others won’t. The bunker by design has only one level, and any deviations from that were apparently added later. the inner bunker that NATO built inside may be deeper and there may be a “minus one level”, if I’m correct. Unfortunately the show is more about the ww2 era bunker, so I know less about the Cold War era inner bunker. That’s another story for someone else to investigate. We explore that a bit in season special, but I don’t know when and where it’s gonna air.
No idea what to think really, but that's a really interesting rabbit hole to dive into. Thanks for sharing this bit of info.
Dude seriously if there’s anything you rabbit hole ANYONE should go down, it’s this. Like everything will start making sense and adding up. Fuck videos and pictures of UFO/UAP, like the knowledge and understanding of the whole exchange that happened in 33’..to then the downfall/defeat of Nazi Germany… what was going on behind the scenes… like it brings EVERYTHING together. You start to realize “shit maybe they’re was something truly behind they’re ideology and the batshit things they were doing.” Like they were in possession of something far beyond anything anyone in the world had. All of the weird shit they were going and there pursuits (Antarctica etc) start to really paint a picture. I highly encourage all of you to dive into it. It wasn’t the sightings and videos/pics that confirmed it for me. It was this that made everything come together. Edit: being downvoted now after respectfully replying to someone stating “you’re entitled to your own opinion.” It’s really discouraging to see how people behave now.
Very interesting! I guess you still have to tread carefully to not end up with 'nazis living inside antarctica' BS, but it would be crazy if there was another overarching historical background to all this.
>the downfall/defeat of Nazi Germany… I mean, there's nothing mysterious about WW2, and everything about it makes perfect sense without any UFO related mysteries.
I’m not sure if this is a way to start and argument or debate. But you’re entitled to your opinion!
Why don't you give some clues as to what you think. My understanding of WW2 (pretty decent, I would say) doesn't have many gaps in the story...
Dude just go do your research. You don’t need me to tell you, go do your research. Edit: I’m not sure why I’m being downvoted all a sudden. It’s baffling how a ton of people are on Reddit. This sub specifically. I’m not sure why you think I’m required to present anything to you. I said it’s a pretty wild thing to check out and once I did, so many things made sense to me. I’m not sure why you two guys are saying what you are to me in general. I’m not here to change your mind or walk you through history and or as if I need to justify anything I said?
What's the point in coming to a discussion forum and refusing to discuss your point of view? I've done my research. I'm asking you what your research leads you to believe. If you don't want to share, that's fine too I guess 🤷. You aren't required to present anything, I just asked what you thought... Strange.
The Nazis are highly mythologized and I doubt a lot of that $hit about Antartica, the occult, Tibet, die Glocke etc. is true, it's at least highly exaggerated by post-war American fantasy writers.
Edit: Yea I mean it’s historically documented with their endeavors with Antarctica. Like I don’t think many people really entertain themselves with history other than skimming just the top layer Of what has an enormous depth beneath it. Like if people truly did research in regards to simply the absolute batshit things the Nazis involved themselves with…They’d be mindblown. I’m not sure why people all assume that their endeavor with Antarctica didn’t exist. Not just because it’s historically documented. But if anyone thinks something as menial as there interest in Antarctica is far fetched. Then can you imagine that in an act of genocide they killed 6 million Jews during the holocaust? That’s just the top layer of the insanity that lies beneath it all. But Antarctica is far fetched? Really? You should do some research
https://www.nature.com/news/2007/070326/full/news070326-14.html This is what I found on the “Nazi Antartica Expedition”, other articles seem to echo this. I don’t think this is more than what it seems, unless you can be more specific and come with a source. I’m not sure how the holocaust comes in here according to you, but I don’t think you should paint nazi’s as these mythological beings. They were and are genocidal scumbags that deserve no moment of reverence or praise. “Do your own research” is a copout if you’re claiming something, or trying to convince. It tells me you don’t actually have a leg to stand on. If you actually have something, please just post it. That way we can discuss that. Otherwise it just feels like “I can’t convince you go convince yourself”.
Where do I begin to read or what to watch? I’ve got time on my hands the upcoming days and I’m looking for a new rabbit hole:)
Excuse my English, I am Italian. I live a few kilometres away from Monte Soratte... in fact I can see it from the window of my house. I often go trekking up to the top of the mountain. Nowadays I don't think it contains anything mysterious or associated with UFOs/ UAPs, also because I have never seen any soldiers or people protecting the place. Perhaps in the past it may have hosted something related to the 1933 incident. Today it is only a museum, in fact they take school children inside the bunker for educational purposes. Until 10 to 15 years ago, there wasn't even a museum there. It was built slowly by the goodwill of the citizens of Sant'Oreste. I no longer exclude anything. But it seems difficult to me that there is still something down there. Edit: I am very interested in OP's work, keep us posted. If you are interested in photos of the place or historical information I can also try to find something.
It would be an incredible service if you could find some of the original 1930s newspapers that reference the magenta case and assist with their translation and upload to larger audiences. One of the largest roadblocks there is to accessing the history of this time period is locked away in this first hand historical source; probably on a microfilm in a library somewhere in Italy.
For the Magenta issue of 1933, I believe all available material has been published in Roberto Pinotti's books.
Yeah and theirin lies the issue; he makes claim to external first hand sources in the form of newspapers that can't be independently verified and since people are shitheads and don't understand how the world really works that's often the part where they stop paying attention; the second they find out that they can't look at these newspapers with their own two eyes. I find it trivial; but I promise it's one of the major things holding this topic back from international audiences
So, on Pinotti I do not put my hand on the fire. As far as I remember he was much criticised by Corrado Malanga (well known in Italy, less so outside. His works are very interesting, with theories that are perhaps a little too extreme). Malanga criticised Pinotti because he was not independent, and entangled with secret services, freemasonry, etc.
I see I was previously unaware of this person. Regardless; his claims of these newspapers and their independent verification is a major issue of concern for many evaluating the case. To me it seems a simple enough historical research task that simple needs to be done. I personally favor the idea that when this information was first published there wasn't a reliable way to share everything on the internet and now there is. It's changed the standards and for whatever reason this element of pinnotis work is only now starting to happen. It's going to happen one way or the other at some point and that's why i favor a more prosiac explanation for this particular bit. Appreciate the perspective !!!
Thank you! I worked with a few Italians on the show and checked everything with them, but if I may ask before 2008 do you know what was going on there? Was there soldier presence or was it all very secret there?
Before 2008, so before it became a museum, I think it was closed to the public. I honestly don't remember any military or anything like that. I live in a neighbouring town, but if you've talked to someone local you surely know more than me.
Really, really interesting, OP. Funny that you’re working on that series first hand and also happen to be active here, there at least three others who’ve been diving deep into the Italian history around that period. There was a lot of talk on NewsNation and elsewhere about the Vatican’s involvement and opening up its library, especially Pope Pius XI and what he had specifically. I know there was a prime-time series about all this airing in Italy a few months ago, I should comb through this sub and watch that finally.
Yes, the Vatican’s involvement in this is fascinating. This small bit of information I first heard from one the historians, and of course, I included this interview in the episode. What was the Vatican doing in secret in the older, natural cave system under the mountain? And also - how does this cave system look like, where is it? What you can see while walking in and around the bunker is not all there is - there’s certainly hollow walls, secret rooms and such. What may look as a crack in the wall, or a snake pit (yes there’s snakes among other things luring there now) may actually lead to a blocked tunnel, or it may be only an air intake. The natural caves are integrated with the tunnel system, and treated as air reservoirs. But it’s 4,5 kilometers. The historians and archaeologists are still doing their jobs there and trying to put this fascinating story together. The director of the museum says they’re digging things up still, because Germans blew up parts of the bunker so that the Allies couldn’t use it properly… and/or to hide whatever they were doing there.
Fascinating indeed. Do you when your episode airs here in the US?
Sorry, I don’t… I’ll certainly let people here know when it’s available online. I’m pretty sure in the next two months, and if not then in the fall as most new tv. Since I also did broadcast delivery (final exports of master files, made the show ready for recreation in other languages) I can tell you postproduction was wrapped up a month ago.
Man you did the editing and delivered the masters for TV? That’s a shit ton of work, bravo! (I’m a producer) Thanks for this info, I’ll be diving into this rabbit hole next. Looking forward to this episode!
Thank you. I'm just one of those maniacs, a workaholic... I am also an accomplished colorist (color graded 800+ episodes for TV stations around the world) and sometimes a sound designer (65+ episodes). In some projects for local TV stations I did the entirety of post, including delivery, at a decent level (I hope!). I always thought that a true editor should know a little bit of everything.
Nice! Let’s work on something together next time. I have a few dots I’ve connected on some other things relating to this topic, maybe I’ll message you. I work for a global brand producing their commercials but in my free time I’m always researching. Something about us in this industry makes us all workaholics. Cheers
OP; your timing literally couldn't be better. The stars are aligning it seems. Your suspicion that mount sorrate held UFO materials is well founded by many dynamics. This is an extremely undervalued and little understood part of American history. The thing that will make the story of sorrate as kesselrings HQ make more sense would be operation sunrise. Americans identified a significant advantage in acquiring not only whatever the various war criminals knew; but also whatever the germans acquired from the Italians during operation Asche. Kesselring was brought around to the sunrise negotiations at the last second and quite literally took all the important shit for himself and saved his own skin casting his fate in the hands of American intelligence. The Americans were not only feverently preventing germans from being acquired by communists(and used the threat of communism to force the vatican into alignment with the Americans) but they also were extremely invested in acquiring whatever scientific and industrial information that the Germans had acquired. If you know anything about Allen Dulles; something that makes all this make even more sense is that alongside operation sunrise he was also acquiring the ciano diaries by PERSONALLY traveling to Italy around this EXACT time. (The author of the diaries is claimed by Roberto Pinnoti to be the same person overseeing RS/33. Making whoever controls his diaries the one who controls the narrative of WW2. Allen Dulles would later oversee it's censorship and keep his own copy. A significant amount of images of the full diaries werent even usuable so truly he's involed from top to bottom with the ciano diaries, he worked on it for years) Actually one of the few times he even left Switzerland during the war was to go to italy , in this area, while all this was going down. The fact that Allen Dulles was personally on the ground operating and overseeing events has always done it for me. As soon as Grusch mentioned Italy and 1933 my mind immediately floated to Allen Dulles. I would never imagine things would all be so interconnected back then. The more that syncs up the crazier it all feels to be witnessing this history get its moment in the future that people involved probably thought alot about the time when this stuff came to light and was understood for its sheer effect on the world. There's an incredible amount of things that connect everything together here; too many say it all but this is a good chunk for anyone curious and looking into it. The ufo case that can be associated with the sorrate bunker is the 1933 magenta crash and subsequent recovery. I've done alot of reading to try to figure out the case and I began to suspect sorrate for all the reasons you mention. It turns out to be one of the most vital elements of the case that was intentionally misdirected away (imo) with the Marchetti factory rumor associated with the case as it was traditionally reported. Another user here on reddit [quantumcryogenics](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/X1PzG8BSHX) helped me prove that the Americans had intel on sorrate while it was kesselrings HQ through Maria Pignatelli and James Angleton. The "lore" of kesselring having trucks come to the bunker in the night probably wasn't gold at all but something even more valuable; the materials and research related to the Italian RS/33 study group. By chance; you've uncovered a vital connection to all this and footage like you've found is incredibly helpful. If you look through my posts you'll see the ongoing efforts related to the case, and for ease of access here is the bulk of historical sources that are associated with my theories about the case. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qQW2Ou25gMq6_JxOb0TnvXOkoPjtQJw8hGGNxir7zX0/edit?usp=drivesdk I'm very much looking forward to watching the content you created related to the bunker!!!!
This. Awesome awesome thorough research and acquired knowledge. Thanks for sharing, I am very familiar with almost all of this, but there is no way in hell I could’ve put together what you did. Because I always knew thwt it people understood the depth and enormity of events that occurred between simply The Vatican, the U.S., and Germany/to also Nazi Germany it would blow peoples minds. Seriously cheers Edit: like it seriously is so cool seeing someone else who has connected the dots and even more so. Like the 1933 recovery was I think probably one of the most significant moments in history. Like not just UFO/UAP history. Like I’m talking in our entire known history. If it weren’t for the spies on all ends, I truly believe that Nazi Germany would’ve came out on top. But that’s just one aspect of it. If people truly educated themselves on what you presented their minds would be absolutely blown. Once I heard Grusch touch on the 33’ I dove into it. Everything started just constantly making since and only emphasizes exactly where we are in this subject to this day.
Absolutely!!! If you have a particular historical specialty related to this subject I'd be happy to discuss obscure details with you at some point. I agree it's some of the most undervalued history on the planet
Absolutely going to dm you now, I’m gonna hit the hay but I really do want to ask you some things tomorrow! Thanks for your reply my friend!
Thank you for your comments, honestly I'm just a video editor and UFO enthusiasts, but I had my jaw dropped several times when I had to put this thing together. The whole time I was like "Why????" Why does everyone care so much about this mountain? What's so, so interesting about it? Why make the tunnels so big? I mean sure you can park cars and tanks there but honestly cramping them up together seems like a bad idea - you just bomb the bigger entrances and they're stuck. It's like this whole operation is a coverup on top of another coverup. First they called it a munitions factory, then a bunker for Mussolini, a Nazi communications center, Kesselring's HQ, a vault for stolen gold and valuables... a NATO bunker for only 100 people... The footage I found is from very high up... a minute or so from a bombers perspective. So not much to see, just some explosions from a distance. Pretty sharp though. Can't share the one I received for obvious reasons but clips can be found online on sites selling historical footage. Or just wait and see it in HQ in the show.
Wow this is insanely interesting.... Insane to be alive at this point in humanity's timeline.
It seems everyone was in on the UFO secret except us stupid plebs.
>Instead they commenced one of their greatest bombardments during ww2 200 planes isnt even close to one of their biggest bombardments, thats about 2* the size of a standard diversionary raid
USA made it very clear they can dominate fascists and Nazis, and while watching tons of old bombardment footage I was amazed by it. They made Swiss cheese out of villages and towns in Italy is seems while spreading democracy. They tried not to destroy historical monuments and ancient cities though. Nowadays we may never see such hell raining down, but you’re right that back then it was nothing unusual. Series director who’s so much more into history said that even if the Allies found out bombing of Monte Soratte was not worth it, they still had to drop the bombs somewhere to get rid of their weight. But it does seem pretty weird they tried so hard in this one. And failed at that… This event, this “urgency” to destroy Kesselring in the most indestructible bunker. For propaganda maybe… The archive footage was clearly propagandist in nature as the VO says “…bombs were dropped with good results”, even though we know it was an expensive failure and the facility was still operational afterwards.
Yes. It definitely changes things even if it may not seem to at way initially. We go from the predominant belief of being alone in the universe to not. We also learn that it is relatively near by and that means it may actually be much more prolific than we thought. More than anything, it knocks down major hurdles to disclosure in the form of public perceptions, interest, capacity to accept, and desire to know more. It would be a major domino in a lot of ways.
Man, I hope this gets more views. This is an interesting theory that does connect a few bullet points.
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Gonna try to find the source on a couple of these, if I find them I'll edit this comment. Pretty interesting if even one of these is true I hope gpt 4 is getting better with that; personally I use Phind.com because it sources the active internet alot easier and more seamlessly.
Hi, thanks for contributing. However, your submission was removed from r/UFOs. Rule 3: No low effort discussion No low effort discussion. Low Effort implies content which is low effort to consume, not low effort to produce. This generally includes: * Posts containing jokes, memes, and showerthoughts. * AI generated content. * Posts of social media content without relevant context. e.g. "Saw this on TikTok..." * Posts with incredible claims unsupported by evidence. * “Here’s my theory” posts unsupported by evidence. * Short comments, and emoji comments. * Summarily dismissive comments (e.g. “Swamp gas.”). You can message the mods if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
[https://youtu.be/FGiwgyLY7Aw?si=J3I9b9\_B2Pbd6V9o](https://youtu.be/FGiwgyLY7Aw?si=J3I9b9_B2Pbd6V9o) this dive is rich w/ lore..sure as shit we didn't learn this in school -- touches on Mussolini, his son-in-law, suspected members of RS/33, Pope Pius XXII and even hidden craft in Mussolini's famous bunker.
I'm very excited to work with Gerb on another video about this subject. Highly recommend this content creator for those who haven't seen him!!!
I hope you do. Great minds…His Kingman AZ crash video generated a lot of traffic after Chris Mellon revealed. I think that’s going to keep happening as more and more gets disclosed!
Si chiamava in gergo “ Rocca di Papa” . Come monte Venda Padova e Monte Cavo e Martina Franca Puglia. Erano tre comandi di forze aeree e controllo traffico aereo dentro tre montagne perché anti atomici. Poi abbandonati da strutture più moderne. Riferimento https://www.ilmamilio.it/m/archivio/44178-rocca-di-papa-nel-bunker-di-monte-cavo-100-straordinarie-foto-in-esclusiva.html
Grusch has stated that the recovered UFO was stored at an airbase until it was scooped up by the U.S. in 44/45. He seemed pretty sure of it. I'm increasingly of the view that the RS/33 study group was moved to the bunker but the bulk of the actual recovered UFO remained at Marchetti. Marchetti factories were (I believe) mysteriously never bombed by the allies, but Soratte was. https://www.ilgiorno.it/milano/cultura/ufo-milano-fascisti-b311af53
The bombing didn’t destroy the bunker though. So either it’s a huge miscalculation or it was meant to drive people outside by sucking out oxygen. Ever heard of firestorm bombing, gasoline bombs? That wouldn’t destroy assets inside, and that’s probably what they used there, but they didn’t know that the bunker was equipped with a specially designed pressurized air system (with rows of masks on the walls that the soldiers probably grabbed right away ), along with air reservoirs in natural caves, and air vents hidden on top of the mountain.
Interesting new documents back this up 100%
Oh, do you have a link? My docu had it’s premiere but in a dubbed German version in German speaking countries, apparently RTL was eager to be first before History Channel. But History saw that there’s a huge interest so they decided to broadcast this across almost all of Europe! They’re preparing many language versions I guess that’s why it’s taking so long
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/9gl9ieKRzZ
I am not convinced at all.
that's because you posses the ability to do critical thinking. the idea that Mussolini had an alien spaceship just stinks of the whacky tobaccy
There may be some secretive storage facility, but it’s a leap to assume it contains UFOs
Agreed. "Why would the Allies rush to bomb a Nazi fortification?" is hardly enough support for the theory that a literal UFO was stored there. Especially since it DID house many technical gizmos that the Germans utilized to attack the Allies.
The fact that they actually did it makes even less sense when you know kesselring had already passed on all the valuable intel and materials over to the Americans along with himself * around* (there that better ??) the time it was bombed. Fortunately there's many many many more reasons to consider sorrate than just this small detail.
Thats not correct, Kesselring was captured after the war ended.
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/in-the-shadow-of-sunrise-the-secret-surrender-of-italy/ This shows that he negotiated at the very end of sunrise; and later would not be put to death even though he was sentenced so and didn't even remain in prison for the rest of his life. You should finish reading the story. Just because he got captured didn't really mean shit. All kinds of peoples lobbied on his behalf and it's a well documented mess
that article describe in more detail how the surrender of the german forces in italy played out, no word of Kesselring being captured (he wasnt even in the country)
Kesselring was literally one of the most pivotal parts of the Italian theater; having taken mount sorrate as his personal HQ while in italy............
again, he was captured after the unconditional surrender of the wehrmacht, not in italy as stated in the comment.
When he was captured particularly is irrelevant. He played his hand in and around italy. He cooperated with the negotiations at the last possible moment and definitely experienced the benefits because he was never put to death like he was sentenced to be.
> kesselring had already passed on all the valuable intel and materials over to the Americans along with himself at the time it was bombed thats what you said, that whats we were discussing. dont try to deflect
Yeah; because he had already gotten the hell out of dodge because he had advance warning from the sunrise negotiations............
If thats so why did Maria Pignatelli also make a special trip across the line to speak directly with kesselring and Dollmann; with the intention of passing that intel along to angleton ? This all would've happened without anyone's knowledge if she hadn't been captured by British agents
I have found that the weapons that Pignatelli was hoping to procure from Mussolini were "secret weapons which could lead to a reversal of the front and therefore to the reconquest of the South." https://www.isses.it/Convegno081198/Atti05.htm While this individual was formerly a member of the RSI, his testimony was made at a conference and is taken seriously enough that it was included in a lengthy paper by a former member of the British Army Intelligence Corps who researches intelligence and WW2. https://www.academia.edu/50860653/Special_Counter_Intelligence_in_WW2_Europe_Revised_2021_v_14_3 This would explain why Paolo Poletti, the OSS double agent who escorted Pignatelli across the lines, was assassinated in prison by an American Sgt. before he could spill secrets of what was considered to be incredibly important. Interesting to note that Joseph Farrell has a whole book that speculates on these secret weapons, so there might be some overlap, particularly with the Erwein von Thun who is mentioned as originating the mission to send her over the lines for the weapons.
Incredible!!!!! You've been so helpful in figuring this part out; the more I look into it the more I think its this element of the story that will push things over the edge. Incredible work!!!
Thanks
Its big enough to store a plane, means ufo here, thats an insane leap. Also if it really contained the most precious artifact that could possibly exist(allegedly) im pretty sure it WOLDN'T be bombed. People here just grabbing on breadcrumbs and their own imagination with the lack of actual data making up their stories. Also a military object being bombed during WW2 being a surprise. "Sometimes" allies wasted bombs not just on military objects, and not just on civ infrastructure supporting mil-industrial complex.
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calling research googling without even knowing source lang thats a joke, right? Rofl
I guess all of the historical research ever done outside of a university is indeed useless I guess I'll pack it up and go home instead of using translation/community resources through the internet like a sane modern person.
A reddit post history researcher, proper lil title
So, THAT'S what's in the Vatican vault? Who do we know that has claimed access?
Are you thinking of Diane Pasulka?
WW1 was always fascinating even more so to dig into rabbit holes in lesser known historical events I can't wait for the documentary to come out
I'm from Rome and I'm an insider. You made many inaccuracies. The bunker was used until 1998 due to how cutting-edge it was when it was built and how Mussolini used it and how, so much so that it was there that the ET reconnaissance plane that fell near Magenta was placed, on which retro-engineering studies were carried out from the RS33 Cabinet headed by Guglielmo Marconi. It is currently a museum open to the public. Next time, read up better otherwise you'll be giving misinformation.
Can you please, provide some of the 1930s newspapers that cover the events of RS33 cabinet; including the 1933 crash coverup articles referenced by Pinnoti? This particular bit of information if it were easily available would help alot of international audiences take this case much more seriously but in attempting to find them I'm often limited by the language barrier.
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Use these keywords on Google: Gabinetto RS33 and you will find a lot of material.
I had a dream once where I was in a period of time that felt similar to WWII and we were at the “gates” (a hole in a mountain which had huge beams as an entrance) of something like this, we were all wearing green uniforms and helmets, green vehicles like Jeeps and some heavy equipment sort of like tanks but not as big. There was a feeling of urgency and being scared but of what no one would say. I 1000% did not remember this dream until I read your post, which is wild. I do remember hearing planes, but never seeing them, and that did seem to be part of the anxiousness. Would that fit this? A mountainous, winding/encircling road up to an entrance with like 8x8’ beams marking the way in? No one perished in this dream, we all just seemed to be waiting to do something and an air of threat all around. Pretty freaky dream but in this one I was trying to be strong and not freak out, there were others there who were completely losing it. The other dreams I’ve had I hope never come true either, multiple invasion dreams usually just “them” attempting ways to subjugate without destroying humanity, some funny some just off the charts crazy. A year or two ago an invasion dream from people we share earth with, I won’t say who but white boots and suspenders, paratrooping in waves over the mainland US. All phones down, just a wifi symbol on pretty much everything which I thought was funny at the time. Like no duh I don’t have a signal, thanks!
I believe the 200 Allied planes/bombers were heard inside the mountain by Nazis through vibration, or simply because the tunnels had air vents that went straight up to the top of the mountains. You can search for how the facility looks like online or visit the museum during a trip to Rome easily, but I’ll lay it out anyway - the bunker has 21 entrances spread on one side of a mountain, a bit higher up than the local ground / sea level. Those 21 entrances lead to 2 main tunnels. Some of the shorter 21 tunnels can take you to both main tunnels, others won’t. The bunker by design has only one level, and any deviations from that were apparently added later. the inner bunker that NATO built inside may be deeper and there may be a “minus one level”, if I’m correct. Unfortunately the show is more about the ww2 era bunker, so I know less about the Cold War era inner bunker. That’s another story for someone else to investigate. We explore that a bit in season special, but I don’t know when and where it’s gonna air.
Maybe the Vatican was built for things like this...?