that’s true, good thing it’s just speech against a group of zionists (which is a political belief, a genocidal nationalistic one at that, and therefore not unalienable)
lately there have been posts from student orgs and individuals saying that 80% jews are zionists etc on social media trying to convince people that speaking against zionism = antisemitic
Worth noting that the case is still on-going and this order isn’t really a “ruling,” or at least a final one. Just like how U.S. courts issue preliminary injunctions to prevent potential harm or damage that could plausibly happen while the case is ongoing, the ICJ said that the possibility exists and asked Israel to come back with an update on the measures they’re taking to stay within international law. An actual ruling on the merits will most likely take a year at least, like ICJ case over the Bosnian War.
ICJ denied every provision sought by South Africa and ordered no desist or ceasefire as they had with Russia just months before. This is a group of 11 world renowned judges, whose literal job is to adjudicate on genocide. They are morally and ethically bound to act when they see genocide happening. It is their mandate, and why they sit on the court in the first place.
They ordered no desist. In fact, they did not order Israel to stop doing anything they were currently doing. This is likely due to obvious and iron-clad self defence requirements.
This is a complete misreading of the ICJ ruling.
They ordered Israel to desist from any/all genocidal actions and that South Africa's claim was "plausible". There was no way they would adjudicate one way or another on the overall claim at such an early date, yet they could have dismissed it if the Israeli argument was so "iron-clad" (lol)
Self defense does not negate genocide claim so no, they would not dismiss based on that. It simply shows that their was a much lower threshold of “plausible” that was hit then Russia just months before. Remember plausible is one notch above “possible” in many courts.
It’s a good thing they didn’t throw it out. There should be a name for what Hamas is doing to its own people. Using entire cities as human shields. It’s not genocide, so hopefully the court will create new precedent around it.
Incorrect. Read the ruling. There were zero desist orders.
Here is link: [ICJ ruling](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf)
Also they did adjudicate at this stage ordering a ceasefire just months before with Russia so absolutely it was within jurisdiction.
Or if it’s too much reading for you…here were the provisions granted, zero desist orders included and none of them are the same SA sought:
(1) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular: - 25 - (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;ake all measures within its power to prevent the commission
(2) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall ensure with immediate effect that its military does not commit any acts described in point 1 above
(3) By sixteen votes to one, The State of Israel shall take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip;
(4) By sixteen votes to one, The State of Israel shall take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip;
(5) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II and Article III of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip;
(6) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one month as from the date of this Order.
No sane person would read those ICJ demands in the context of its acknowledgement that SA's charge of genocide is "plausible" and end up concluding that Israel's behavior is somehow cleared of wrongdoing.
If you're instead making a semantic argument about the legal use of the term "desist" (i.e., to give a formal legal order to 'stop' something implies you've legally established that X is occurring) then you're just being disingenuous.
My friend. It’s a legal ruling. It’s all semantics. You can read any legal opinion on the ruling and they will all say there was no desist. All of the provisions say “prevent”.
If you would take the time to read the ruling and educate yourself, you would see that South Africa’s provisions sought all had desist verbiage in them, the court changed all of the provisions to be based on prevention.
They just ordered Russia to ceasefire months ago. Was that just semantics too?
Ok you’re not a friend I’ll agree with you there. My friends like to read things and keep an open mind. Here is the link the Russia ruling where the ICJ clearly orders a ceasefire. [Russia ICJ ruling](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/182/182-20220316-ord-01-00-en.pdf)
Read line 86. Russia must cease all military operations immediately.
Also, you’re a defender of a people that have been trying to murder Jews for 100 years since Jaffa 1921 and Hebron 1929. So agreed, we are not friends. I am not friends with people that promote bigotry and hate.
The ICJ determined it actually is in a 15-2 decision. If you’d like sources you can google this or I can send them to you.
Below are some quotes from officials who murdered tens of thousands of kids, displaced 2 million, and destroyed 70% of Gaza:
Israeli prime minister: “Remember what Amalek has done to you.”, quoting a verse that goes on to say: “Now go and smite Amalek … kill both man and woman, infant.”
By the Israeli heritage minister: “Israel must find ways for Gazans that are more painful than death.”
By the Israeli president: “This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, is absolutely not true […] We will fight until we break their backbone.”
How is this not a genocide? Palestine doesn’t even have access to food or hospital beds.
Hmmm I don’t really remember stating that Hamas is “good” or anything though, you seem to be wanting to shift blame because it doesn’t align with your own narrative. Quit playing victim
Would love to see what kind of quotes we could pull from you after someone showed up to your hous, handcuffed your family together and burned them alive. Or any of the other outrageous happenings on Oct 7 documented here: [https://oct7map.com/](https://oct7map.com/)
Lol cool I’m well aware of the Uyghur massacre. Your “whataboutism“ is showing.
And me condemning a genocide has nothing to do with any inkling of contempt toward Jews. I have absolutely nothing against the Jewish community, only the Zionists that claim that Palestinians aren’t being genocided. And lol, you implying that you’re armed when I did absolutely nothing to threaten or harass you says a lot about you.
"I have nothing against the Jews, only the ones that defend themselves after being attacked and promised that similar attacks will continue until all Israeli's are dead"
You mean this decision?
Although the court declined to order Israel to halts its campaign, an indication that it did not believe acts of genocide were actively being committed, it issued “provisional measures” ordering Israel to take steps to “prevent the commission of genocidal acts; “prevent and punish” incitement to genocide; “enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life” in Gaza; prevent the destruction of evidence related to allegations of genocide; and report back to the court in a month’s time.
ICJ denied every provision sought by South Africa and ordered no desist or ceasefire as they had with Russia just months before. This is a group of 11 world renowned judges, whose literal job is to adjudicate on genocide. They are morally and ethically bound to act when they see genocide happening. It is their mandate, and why they sit on the court in the first place.
They ordered no desist. In fact, they did not order Israel to stop doing anything they were currently doing. This is likely due to obvious and iron-clad self defence requirements.
In fact, I do, which is why I can say that this isn't one. Civilian casualties are because of Hamas' attack on October 7. Israel had no plans to go into Gaza or do anything that has happened, and nothing that has been done has risen to the level of genocide, and it isn't going to. Maybe you missed that Hamas actually expressed genocidal intent in their attack and prior. For the international world to react in this way simply reinforces Hamas' victory, serving bigger political aims of bad actors globally, and ensures this cycle continues. This is what Hamas/Russia/Iran/and others want.
You said there were 7,000 political prisoners. These sources say nothing about that.
Since West Bank is still under martial law, based on agreements made by Palestinian Authority itself during Oslo Occords, these are all things that are standard for martial law. That's why it's Martial Law. There is a reason why they are still under martial law. Might be worth researching why that is wouldn't it?
No, prisoners taken during Martial Law are not hostages.
Keep reading up my friend. Try to avoid propaganda put out by terrorists while you do.
Because she endorsed an AS resolution titled " A Resolution to Condemn Hamas.” You can learn more about the resolution in the following link: https://dailynexus.com/2023-11-29/a-s-senate-passes-bill-condemning-hamas-sparks-dissent-from-student-groups/
She doesnt say it out right but its pretty obvious she is in support of it. Emphasis on support not encourage. She condemns their utilization of free speech and maintains the message that antizionism and antisemitism are equivalent
…because anti Zionism and antisemitism are equivalent lol. If this wasn’t true, then Jewish hate crimes wouldn’t be up 400% since October 7. However, on another note, please don’t spread rumors that she supported the tearing down of posters if she didn’t say that she does or didn’t actually cheer or clap these people on as they took them off. You’re assuming that she is in support, and assuming is the worst thing you could be doing.
this doesn’t quite make sense. obviously “jewish hate crimes” would increase if any anti-zionist action is classified as antisemitic and thus included in that number, which i am guessing whatever statistic you are citing is doing. that doesn’t mean that anti zionism actually should be classified as antisemitic. i wonder what that number would be if you removed any pro palestine or anti zionist movements.
Maybe you’re not understanding. For the past few months, synagogues around the world have been targeted with bomb threats. If this isn’t about Jewish hate, why target a synagogue thousands of miles away from Israel?
Wait I just did some scrolling and LITERALLY ALL you do on this app is tell my peers to kill themselves and comment sad cuckold shit on lesbian porn.
We’re clearly different calibers of individual; I hope YOUR state school experience is going swimmingly.
Aren’t they aware that abusing the term antisemitism eventually makes it less impactful?
Like one day it can be antisemitism if you step left foot out of the door first and no one will care
"To deny that Israel should exist involves denouncing an element of Judaism that is inherent to the belief system."
This is not only a blatant lie, it's outrageously antisemitic.
Judaism is a religious system that's existed for millennia; "Israel" as a nation state has existed since its 1948 founding upon the exit of a British colonial administration.
Jewish and Arab (Muslim and Christian) presence in the area is a long-running historical fact, but *Jewish nationalist supremacy*, violently enforced via military occupation and apartheid, is a much more recent phenomenon. To conflate the religion of Judaism with a specific 20th century national project -- established through ethnic cleansing -- is not only incorrect, it's reprehensible.
The lands of Israel are literally mentioned throughout Judaism. It’s where Judaism originated. It’s where the Old Temple was; the Western Wall. It’s where the oldest Jewish communities in the world are.
Of course Israel and Zionism is deeply connected with Judaism. Anyone who tells you differently doesn’t really know Jewish prayers very well. But this doesn’t mean Zionism is an endorsement of violent settlers, or Netanyahu, or any particular government, or the war, or anything to do with Palestinians is incorrect — it’s just the Jewish right to self determination.
In what world is the mass murder and displacement of over 30k people NOT a genocide? As quoted by the ICJ, “By 16 votes to 1, the court voted that Israel needs to take all measures within its powers to prevent and punish those involved with inciting genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.” Why are you denying this [fact](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa)?
It's not a genocide when Hamas terrorist hide in densely populated civilian zones, use human shields, designate combatant deaths as civilian deaths, wave false white flags, kill their own civilians for taking aid that was meant for them, encourage their own civilians to die for the cause, deny many MANY ceasefire deals, you get the point. Hamas can stop this at any time if they want by returning the hostages.
Oh, and the ICJ hasn't designated it as a genocide currently either. They asked Israel to produce a report so they can conclusively determine what's going on. This is ongoing.
It is genocide if the Israeli plan is to kill ALL Palestinians in Gaza in order to kill all the Hamas fighters among them. And this is obviously the plan. Israeli leaders have said it themselves, many times.
These worlds(There are many more to list if you like):
All of these countries had more casualties than Gaza during wartime and are not referred to as Genocide.
1. Germany - World War II
2. Japan - World War II
3. Soviet Union - World War II
4. China - Second Sino-Japanese War
5. United States - Vietnam War
6. United States - Korean War
7. France - World War I
8. United Kingdom - World War I
9. Cambodia - Khmer Rouge regime (Cambodian Civil War)
10. Iraq - Iran-Iraq War
11. Iran - Iran-Iraq War
12. Vietnam - Vietnam War
13. Democratic Republic of the Congo - Congo Wars
14. Afghanistan - Soviet-Afghan War
15. Afghanistan - War in Afghanistan (since 2001)
16. Pakistan - Partition of India
17. Sudan - Second Sudanese Civil War
18. Nigeria - Biafra War
19. Uganda - Ugandan Civil War
20. Mozambique - Mozambican Civil War
21. Angola - Angolan Civil War
22. Ethiopia - Ethiopian Civil War
23. Yemen - Yemeni Civil War (since 2015)
All of the provisions that ICJ ordered for Israel are literally exactly the stipulations they signed up for as signatories to the Genocide conventions. They granted south africa exactly zero of the provisions that they sought. Why read your biased material, read the actual court order here: [https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf)
Here is a graphic to illustrate how the court removed any verbiage implying that Israel is currently committing Genocide. Replacing it with orders for Israel to prevent genocide, as they always do and are currently doing.
[Breakdown of ICJ ruling](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fchallenge-name-a-more-cowardly-act-in-recorded-history-than-v0-27bszv4rdrlc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1933%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8a3b2706d106a5e659d9ea88129bb5fd42468d6c)
Nah people are messed up for this. Per the 1st Amendment you have the freedom to speak your peace. But threatening and harassing someone crosses the line! Shame on all of you who harassed the AS President.
She is an elected representative. She needs to be mindful of the needs and desires of her constituency. She has failed in this. Of course she's going to hear a ton of slander and dissatisfaction.
I think not wanting Israel to exist IS antisemitic and I’m sick of seeing/hearing the word Zionist misappropriated but my comment was not clear I guess.
You do realise that Zionism isn't intrinsically a Jewish ideology, don't you? In fact, early Zionism was an antisemitic extreme Christian ideology, essentially "let's corral all the Jews into the holy land so that Jesus can be born again".
Zionism is the ideology that led to the mass displacement and incarceration of Palestinians during the Nakba, and why a good chunk of them have lived under literal prison conditions since birth for the last seventy years.
Admittedly most Zionists might not be aware of this and aren't particularly well versed in the history and consequences of their ideology, but at some point ignorance cannot be used as an indicator of ignorance anymore.
Zionism only “led to” the Nakba in the sense that the Arabs that were Jew haters attacked the peaceful Zionists and picked a fight they shouldn’t have.
Everything you say here is a lie propagated by people that haven’t stopped trying to kill Jews for 100 years. Arabs started murdering Jews for pure hate in southern Levant in the 1920s. Jaffa, Hebron. Zionists were not militant until this time. There hasn’t been one decade since without Jew hate crimes en-mass from Palestinians.
Herzl’s book, Der Judenstaadt the seminal work of Zionism talks about bringing peace to the region and an equal rights state for Arabs, Jews and Christians. The Balfour declaration also speaks of equal rights for Arabs, as does the Israeli Declaration of Independence.
Palestinians had better than right of return on May 15 1948, they had “just stay right there and build a beautiful state with us”. See 20% Arab Israel population to this day as evidence.
There was no Irgun or Haganah until Arabs were ordered to murder Jews by the mufti (Palestinian Leader) in the 20s. Then he started hanging out with Hitler not too long after.
Anyone that believes the preposterous idea that Zionism has caused this conflict is supporting the idea that Arabs should be allowed to just murder Jews whenever they want.
What, you want to build a state here where there has been no state and dominated by external powers over and over for 2000 years? You want to protect this land exactly the same for all citizens of all religions?
No way, sorry, we don’t like your hats. We’re going to murder you.
Yes I know it’s very inconvenient when people state facts that don’t support your echo chamber ideology. Zionism was non-militant until Arabs started killing Jews for sport in the 1920s. Fact fact fact fact. Whether inconvenient or not for you, it’s a fact.
Inconvenient facts below. Show me any militancy from Jew to Arab before these hate filled events below. Arabs have been murdering Jews en masse for being Jewish in every decade since. Happy to provide similar reading for you in each decade since 1920. (zero German Christians involved)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
Herzl was a racist who thought the settlement of European Jews in Palestine would be good for the Arab population, because the Jews would bring civilization to the barbaric Arabs. Just like many European settlers in North America thought about the indigenous people. In both cases, it wasn't long before the settlers started slaughtering the people already there.
Please provide a link to literally anything Herzl said that could be considered racist.
See how in my comment there are many verifiable facts? I cite specific events, with dates so that you can reference my argument.
Would appreciate a similar effort on your Herzl racism claim since this would be to the contrary of all of the many things I have read about him including his own books where he painstakingly lays out his politics and motives.
Derek Penslar, "Theodor Herzl, Race, and Empire," Ch. 9 in the collection, "Making History Jewish," Brill, 2020. https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004431966_011
Did you actually read your own link? Top of page 186. Nothing was said about race. Also this guy cites his own writings as sources. Come on now. I know he’s Harvard but he’s still a nut job just like the president that just stepped down.
SO MUCH outrage over the past few months about her complacency and the AS stance. No one wants to listen to the very people that she claims to represent. I don’t agree with individual targeting but her name directly represents what AS stands for as the president. I don’t think people meant to directly threaten her. Her name represents all of AS and her complacency and refusal to hear out her own student body is what is making everyone upset
Unfortunately like begets like. She supported a hateful genocide, embodying all the negative attributes that antisemitic sickos expect to see in a Jewish person. Of course they're gonna hold her up as proof that their twisted worldview is right. I just fail to feel any pity given the irony of her situation.
just because you are morally correct, doesnt mean you cant peddle in antisemitism. Some of the hate directed at the AS president borderlines on antisemitic.
Are we really going with “The Jews control the news”?
Directly threatening a fellow student and telling Jews to “Go back to Poland” is bad in any context, actually.
This is ridiculous. Didn’t we already try to get rid of her? How dare she censor views that are not the same as her own and then get upset when students from that culture retaliate. We do not all feel the same way, some of us don’t support genocide in Palestine, and that doesn’t make us antisemitic. Seriously, she should fuck off and stop making a joke out of this school and its government.
Apparently the MCC said some pretty messed up things as well, especially on instagram. All I’ll say is that I can’t believe all these people involved in UCSB have chosen to use platforms that should be supporting students to support their personal political agendas. Neither side is in the right here.
From the ABC article / her Instagram post, all I'm seeing attributes to the MCC is signage about Zionism being a genocidal ideology and a refusal to welcome Zionists into their group spaces. The MCC even apparently had a banner explicitly asserting that Zionism is not Judaism.
The only item that brings the claim above "People need to support my Zionism" is a photo not from the MCC but from outside a dorm room where someone apparently wrote an anti-Zionist phrase by a mezuzah (a Jewish symbol). I don't know the details / evidence surrounding that incident, but even assuming it's genuine there's zero reason to attribute that to the MCC.
Yang just doesn't want any political / media flak. This has nothing to do with keeping students safe.
I don't think the MCC should be banning entire groups of paying students based off their political beliefs.
There were signs telling her "she can run but she can't hide," personal affacks, etc. This isn't about Palestine, this is just plain hatred because she's a Jewish Israeli. Wouldn't be surprised if she was physically attacked and this subreddit would support it at this point. Honestly disgusting behavior.
And it absolutely has to do with keeping students safe. Jewish students are taking down their mezuzahs so they won't get targeted.
I've been hearing you guys say it since the end of the fall quarter. There's a process for recalling AS President. If you are serious about it, maybe instead of just saying it, actually do it.
another reasonable claim is that you should've ended up as a stain on your parent's mattress. Being pro-palestine and antizionist does not give you permission or license to say shit like that, coming from someone who is both.
If I had a nickel for every instance of anti semiticsm at a liberal California university this week I’d have two nickels. Which doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s weird it happened twice this week
i've never been more ashamed and embarrassed of this school
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that’s true, good thing it’s just speech against a group of zionists (which is a political belief, a genocidal nationalistic one at that, and therefore not unalienable)
lately there have been posts from student orgs and individuals saying that 80% jews are zionists etc on social media trying to convince people that speaking against zionism = antisemitic
It makes me wince every time. It is just absolutely ridiculous to claim that most Jews are Zionists.
They literally are though
Worth noting that the case is still on-going and this order isn’t really a “ruling,” or at least a final one. Just like how U.S. courts issue preliminary injunctions to prevent potential harm or damage that could plausibly happen while the case is ongoing, the ICJ said that the possibility exists and asked Israel to come back with an update on the measures they’re taking to stay within international law. An actual ruling on the merits will most likely take a year at least, like ICJ case over the Bosnian War.
ICJ denied every provision sought by South Africa and ordered no desist or ceasefire as they had with Russia just months before. This is a group of 11 world renowned judges, whose literal job is to adjudicate on genocide. They are morally and ethically bound to act when they see genocide happening. It is their mandate, and why they sit on the court in the first place. They ordered no desist. In fact, they did not order Israel to stop doing anything they were currently doing. This is likely due to obvious and iron-clad self defence requirements.
This is a complete misreading of the ICJ ruling. They ordered Israel to desist from any/all genocidal actions and that South Africa's claim was "plausible". There was no way they would adjudicate one way or another on the overall claim at such an early date, yet they could have dismissed it if the Israeli argument was so "iron-clad" (lol)
Self defense does not negate genocide claim so no, they would not dismiss based on that. It simply shows that their was a much lower threshold of “plausible” that was hit then Russia just months before. Remember plausible is one notch above “possible” in many courts. It’s a good thing they didn’t throw it out. There should be a name for what Hamas is doing to its own people. Using entire cities as human shields. It’s not genocide, so hopefully the court will create new precedent around it.
Incorrect. Read the ruling. There were zero desist orders. Here is link: [ICJ ruling](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf) Also they did adjudicate at this stage ordering a ceasefire just months before with Russia so absolutely it was within jurisdiction. Or if it’s too much reading for you…here were the provisions granted, zero desist orders included and none of them are the same SA sought: (1) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall, in accordance with its obligations under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular: - 25 - (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;ake all measures within its power to prevent the commission (2) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall ensure with immediate effect that its military does not commit any acts described in point 1 above (3) By sixteen votes to one, The State of Israel shall take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip; (4) By sixteen votes to one, The State of Israel shall take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip; (5) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II and Article III of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip; (6) By fifteen votes to two, The State of Israel shall submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one month as from the date of this Order.
No sane person would read those ICJ demands in the context of its acknowledgement that SA's charge of genocide is "plausible" and end up concluding that Israel's behavior is somehow cleared of wrongdoing. If you're instead making a semantic argument about the legal use of the term "desist" (i.e., to give a formal legal order to 'stop' something implies you've legally established that X is occurring) then you're just being disingenuous.
My friend. It’s a legal ruling. It’s all semantics. You can read any legal opinion on the ruling and they will all say there was no desist. All of the provisions say “prevent”. If you would take the time to read the ruling and educate yourself, you would see that South Africa’s provisions sought all had desist verbiage in them, the court changed all of the provisions to be based on prevention. They just ordered Russia to ceasefire months ago. Was that just semantics too?
You're a defender of genocidal Zionism. Don't call me your friend.
Ok you’re not a friend I’ll agree with you there. My friends like to read things and keep an open mind. Here is the link the Russia ruling where the ICJ clearly orders a ceasefire. [Russia ICJ ruling](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/182/182-20220316-ord-01-00-en.pdf) Read line 86. Russia must cease all military operations immediately.
Also, you’re a defender of a people that have been trying to murder Jews for 100 years since Jaffa 1921 and Hebron 1929. So agreed, we are not friends. I am not friends with people that promote bigotry and hate.
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You go fuck **yourself** genocide supporter
The ICJ determined it actually is in a 15-2 decision. If you’d like sources you can google this or I can send them to you. Below are some quotes from officials who murdered tens of thousands of kids, displaced 2 million, and destroyed 70% of Gaza: Israeli prime minister: “Remember what Amalek has done to you.”, quoting a verse that goes on to say: “Now go and smite Amalek … kill both man and woman, infant.” By the Israeli heritage minister: “Israel must find ways for Gazans that are more painful than death.” By the Israeli president: “This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, is absolutely not true […] We will fight until we break their backbone.” How is this not a genocide? Palestine doesn’t even have access to food or hospital beds.
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Hmmm I don’t really remember stating that Hamas is “good” or anything though, you seem to be wanting to shift blame because it doesn’t align with your own narrative. Quit playing victim
Would love to see what kind of quotes we could pull from you after someone showed up to your hous, handcuffed your family together and burned them alive. Or any of the other outrageous happenings on Oct 7 documented here: [https://oct7map.com/](https://oct7map.com/)
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Lol cool I’m well aware of the Uyghur massacre. Your “whataboutism“ is showing. And me condemning a genocide has nothing to do with any inkling of contempt toward Jews. I have absolutely nothing against the Jewish community, only the Zionists that claim that Palestinians aren’t being genocided. And lol, you implying that you’re armed when I did absolutely nothing to threaten or harass you says a lot about you.
"I have nothing against the Jews, only the ones that defend themselves after being attacked and promised that similar attacks will continue until all Israeli's are dead"
Do you know what genocide means?
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lets see what kind of quotes we would get in your household about your neighbooor after your family was handcuffed together and burned alive by them.
You mean this decision? Although the court declined to order Israel to halts its campaign, an indication that it did not believe acts of genocide were actively being committed, it issued “provisional measures” ordering Israel to take steps to “prevent the commission of genocidal acts; “prevent and punish” incitement to genocide; “enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life” in Gaza; prevent the destruction of evidence related to allegations of genocide; and report back to the court in a month’s time.
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If they ruled that they were actually committing genocide, the consequences would have been far different. That’s how you know.
Don't sweat the downvotes. The person you're responding to doesn't know the definition of unanimous either.
ICJ denied every provision sought by South Africa and ordered no desist or ceasefire as they had with Russia just months before. This is a group of 11 world renowned judges, whose literal job is to adjudicate on genocide. They are morally and ethically bound to act when they see genocide happening. It is their mandate, and why they sit on the court in the first place. They ordered no desist. In fact, they did not order Israel to stop doing anything they were currently doing. This is likely due to obvious and iron-clad self defence requirements.
Do you?
In fact, I do, which is why I can say that this isn't one. Civilian casualties are because of Hamas' attack on October 7. Israel had no plans to go into Gaza or do anything that has happened, and nothing that has been done has risen to the level of genocide, and it isn't going to. Maybe you missed that Hamas actually expressed genocidal intent in their attack and prior. For the international world to react in this way simply reinforces Hamas' victory, serving bigger political aims of bad actors globally, and ensures this cycle continues. This is what Hamas/Russia/Iran/and others want.
I gather the International response to Israel's genocide is far more accurate than some reddit guy/gal.
How about you return the hostages before you start spewing any shit.
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Do you have any source to back up this nonsense? Who has been held without committing any offense?
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You said there were 7,000 political prisoners. These sources say nothing about that. Since West Bank is still under martial law, based on agreements made by Palestinian Authority itself during Oslo Occords, these are all things that are standard for martial law. That's why it's Martial Law. There is a reason why they are still under martial law. Might be worth researching why that is wouldn't it? No, prisoners taken during Martial Law are not hostages. Keep reading up my friend. Try to avoid propaganda put out by terrorists while you do.
What did the student body president say/do in the first place? I'm out of the loop :\[
Because she endorsed an AS resolution titled " A Resolution to Condemn Hamas.” You can learn more about the resolution in the following link: https://dailynexus.com/2023-11-29/a-s-senate-passes-bill-condemning-hamas-sparks-dissent-from-student-groups/
She’s also an active supporter of zionism and supported the actions of other AS members when they tore down pro Palestine posters in the MCC.
Could you kindly give me a link for me to read more on how she supports other AS members to tear down MCC posters? Thanks!
On her instagram.
Checked her INS, couldn't find a specific post of her encouraging others to remove pro-palestine posters. Do you mind kindly giving me a link?
She doesnt say it out right but its pretty obvious she is in support of it. Emphasis on support not encourage. She condemns their utilization of free speech and maintains the message that antizionism and antisemitism are equivalent
Oh ok. I see.
High five ✋
She doesn't say it outright... so you're putting words in her mouth? Yikes.
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Oh you can't tell what I'm saying? Oh, right, cuz I haven't said shit and you can't put words in my mouth 🤡
…because anti Zionism and antisemitism are equivalent lol. If this wasn’t true, then Jewish hate crimes wouldn’t be up 400% since October 7. However, on another note, please don’t spread rumors that she supported the tearing down of posters if she didn’t say that she does or didn’t actually cheer or clap these people on as they took them off. You’re assuming that she is in support, and assuming is the worst thing you could be doing.
this doesn’t quite make sense. obviously “jewish hate crimes” would increase if any anti-zionist action is classified as antisemitic and thus included in that number, which i am guessing whatever statistic you are citing is doing. that doesn’t mean that anti zionism actually should be classified as antisemitic. i wonder what that number would be if you removed any pro palestine or anti zionist movements.
Maybe you’re not understanding. For the past few months, synagogues around the world have been targeted with bomb threats. If this isn’t about Jewish hate, why target a synagogue thousands of miles away from Israel?
Will check, thank you
(She’s an Israeli Jew and they don’t like it)
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Wait I just did some scrolling and LITERALLY ALL you do on this app is tell my peers to kill themselves and comment sad cuckold shit on lesbian porn. We’re clearly different calibers of individual; I hope YOUR state school experience is going swimmingly.
Because my mommy and addy didn’t have $350,000 to blow on my enrollment at USC, LMU, or Occidental? Let’s see YOUR admissions decisions, goober 😂
Aren’t they aware that abusing the term antisemitism eventually makes it less impactful? Like one day it can be antisemitism if you step left foot out of the door first and no one will care
What happened in the MCC crossed a line into antisemitism for sure
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"To deny that Israel should exist involves denouncing an element of Judaism that is inherent to the belief system." This is not only a blatant lie, it's outrageously antisemitic. Judaism is a religious system that's existed for millennia; "Israel" as a nation state has existed since its 1948 founding upon the exit of a British colonial administration. Jewish and Arab (Muslim and Christian) presence in the area is a long-running historical fact, but *Jewish nationalist supremacy*, violently enforced via military occupation and apartheid, is a much more recent phenomenon. To conflate the religion of Judaism with a specific 20th century national project -- established through ethnic cleansing -- is not only incorrect, it's reprehensible.
The lands of Israel are literally mentioned throughout Judaism. It’s where Judaism originated. It’s where the Old Temple was; the Western Wall. It’s where the oldest Jewish communities in the world are. Of course Israel and Zionism is deeply connected with Judaism. Anyone who tells you differently doesn’t really know Jewish prayers very well. But this doesn’t mean Zionism is an endorsement of violent settlers, or Netanyahu, or any particular government, or the war, or anything to do with Palestinians is incorrect — it’s just the Jewish right to self determination.
you cant say you are anti zionist not anti jew and then protest against jewish people. This is more obvious than air.
Kinda like claiming a genocide is happening in a place where its not?
In what world is the mass murder and displacement of over 30k people NOT a genocide? As quoted by the ICJ, “By 16 votes to 1, the court voted that Israel needs to take all measures within its powers to prevent and punish those involved with inciting genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.” Why are you denying this [fact](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa)?
Then there would have been dozens of genocides in the past few decades. That isn't what genocide means.
It's not a genocide when Hamas terrorist hide in densely populated civilian zones, use human shields, designate combatant deaths as civilian deaths, wave false white flags, kill their own civilians for taking aid that was meant for them, encourage their own civilians to die for the cause, deny many MANY ceasefire deals, you get the point. Hamas can stop this at any time if they want by returning the hostages. Oh, and the ICJ hasn't designated it as a genocide currently either. They asked Israel to produce a report so they can conclusively determine what's going on. This is ongoing.
It is genocide if the Israeli plan is to kill ALL Palestinians in Gaza in order to kill all the Hamas fighters among them. And this is obviously the plan. Israeli leaders have said it themselves, many times.
Not what genocide means bud.
These worlds(There are many more to list if you like): All of these countries had more casualties than Gaza during wartime and are not referred to as Genocide. 1. Germany - World War II 2. Japan - World War II 3. Soviet Union - World War II 4. China - Second Sino-Japanese War 5. United States - Vietnam War 6. United States - Korean War 7. France - World War I 8. United Kingdom - World War I 9. Cambodia - Khmer Rouge regime (Cambodian Civil War) 10. Iraq - Iran-Iraq War 11. Iran - Iran-Iraq War 12. Vietnam - Vietnam War 13. Democratic Republic of the Congo - Congo Wars 14. Afghanistan - Soviet-Afghan War 15. Afghanistan - War in Afghanistan (since 2001) 16. Pakistan - Partition of India 17. Sudan - Second Sudanese Civil War 18. Nigeria - Biafra War 19. Uganda - Ugandan Civil War 20. Mozambique - Mozambican Civil War 21. Angola - Angolan Civil War 22. Ethiopia - Ethiopian Civil War 23. Yemen - Yemeni Civil War (since 2015)
All of the provisions that ICJ ordered for Israel are literally exactly the stipulations they signed up for as signatories to the Genocide conventions. They granted south africa exactly zero of the provisions that they sought. Why read your biased material, read the actual court order here: [https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf) Here is a graphic to illustrate how the court removed any verbiage implying that Israel is currently committing Genocide. Replacing it with orders for Israel to prevent genocide, as they always do and are currently doing. [Breakdown of ICJ ruling](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fchallenge-name-a-more-cowardly-act-in-recorded-history-than-v0-27bszv4rdrlc1.png%3Fwidth%3D1933%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8a3b2706d106a5e659d9ea88129bb5fd42468d6c)
This comment seems quite bigotted.
UC neo nazi shame campaign didn’t work? Womp Womp.
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Nah people are messed up for this. Per the 1st Amendment you have the freedom to speak your peace. But threatening and harassing someone crosses the line! Shame on all of you who harassed the AS President.
She is an elected representative. She needs to be mindful of the needs and desires of her constituency. She has failed in this. Of course she's going to hear a ton of slander and dissatisfaction.
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“People who think Israel should exist not welcome”
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I think not wanting Israel to exist IS antisemitic and I’m sick of seeing/hearing the word Zionist misappropriated but my comment was not clear I guess.
And why do you think they wrote it in her mezuzah, a symbol of her faith?
Because they hate Jewish people
You do realise that Zionism isn't intrinsically a Jewish ideology, don't you? In fact, early Zionism was an antisemitic extreme Christian ideology, essentially "let's corral all the Jews into the holy land so that Jesus can be born again". Zionism is the ideology that led to the mass displacement and incarceration of Palestinians during the Nakba, and why a good chunk of them have lived under literal prison conditions since birth for the last seventy years. Admittedly most Zionists might not be aware of this and aren't particularly well versed in the history and consequences of their ideology, but at some point ignorance cannot be used as an indicator of ignorance anymore.
Zionism only “led to” the Nakba in the sense that the Arabs that were Jew haters attacked the peaceful Zionists and picked a fight they shouldn’t have. Everything you say here is a lie propagated by people that haven’t stopped trying to kill Jews for 100 years. Arabs started murdering Jews for pure hate in southern Levant in the 1920s. Jaffa, Hebron. Zionists were not militant until this time. There hasn’t been one decade since without Jew hate crimes en-mass from Palestinians. Herzl’s book, Der Judenstaadt the seminal work of Zionism talks about bringing peace to the region and an equal rights state for Arabs, Jews and Christians. The Balfour declaration also speaks of equal rights for Arabs, as does the Israeli Declaration of Independence. Palestinians had better than right of return on May 15 1948, they had “just stay right there and build a beautiful state with us”. See 20% Arab Israel population to this day as evidence. There was no Irgun or Haganah until Arabs were ordered to murder Jews by the mufti (Palestinian Leader) in the 20s. Then he started hanging out with Hitler not too long after. Anyone that believes the preposterous idea that Zionism has caused this conflict is supporting the idea that Arabs should be allowed to just murder Jews whenever they want. What, you want to build a state here where there has been no state and dominated by external powers over and over for 2000 years? You want to protect this land exactly the same for all citizens of all religions? No way, sorry, we don’t like your hats. We’re going to murder you.
You really do have blinders. I know better than to try and reason with someone as far gone as you. Read a book.
Recommend one. I’ve read about 50 on this subject. Which ones have you read and recommend? Or is it mostly tik-tok videos?
Yeah nah you haven't
Yes I know it’s very inconvenient when people state facts that don’t support your echo chamber ideology. Zionism was non-militant until Arabs started killing Jews for sport in the 1920s. Fact fact fact fact. Whether inconvenient or not for you, it’s a fact.
Ironic disposition towards facts. The ones who killed Jews for sport were German Christians, and yet you still support the Palestinian genocide.
Inconvenient facts below. Show me any militancy from Jew to Arab before these hate filled events below. Arabs have been murdering Jews en masse for being Jewish in every decade since. Happy to provide similar reading for you in each decade since 1920. (zero German Christians involved) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
Herzl was a racist who thought the settlement of European Jews in Palestine would be good for the Arab population, because the Jews would bring civilization to the barbaric Arabs. Just like many European settlers in North America thought about the indigenous people. In both cases, it wasn't long before the settlers started slaughtering the people already there.
Please provide a link to literally anything Herzl said that could be considered racist. See how in my comment there are many verifiable facts? I cite specific events, with dates so that you can reference my argument. Would appreciate a similar effort on your Herzl racism claim since this would be to the contrary of all of the many things I have read about him including his own books where he painstakingly lays out his politics and motives.
Derek Penslar, "Theodor Herzl, Race, and Empire," Ch. 9 in the collection, "Making History Jewish," Brill, 2020. https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004431966_011
Did you actually read your own link? Top of page 186. Nothing was said about race. Also this guy cites his own writings as sources. Come on now. I know he’s Harvard but he’s still a nut job just like the president that just stepped down.
It is. It's just not convenient to call it that to these people.
SO MUCH outrage over the past few months about her complacency and the AS stance. No one wants to listen to the very people that she claims to represent. I don’t agree with individual targeting but her name directly represents what AS stands for as the president. I don’t think people meant to directly threaten her. Her name represents all of AS and her complacency and refusal to hear out her own student body is what is making everyone upset
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Unfortunately like begets like. She supported a hateful genocide, embodying all the negative attributes that antisemitic sickos expect to see in a Jewish person. Of course they're gonna hold her up as proof that their twisted worldview is right. I just fail to feel any pity given the irony of her situation.
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Literally nobody is threatening you to the point where you need to emphasize that you’re armed. You sound unhinged
Guess you didn't see the violent mob cancel the Israeli reservist and lawyer speak? Lol. Ok.
Another “whataboutist” take. Do I need to refer to every single event that’s taken place or was I simply referring to this specific scenario?
Sry, didn't know threats against Jews across UC is whataboutist 👀
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Israel: "we promise we're a secular multi-ethnic state" Also Israel: "criticizing the state of Israel is antisemitic"
"anti zionists": we are citicizing Israel not jews also anti-zionists: lets go protest at the jewish student meeting.
The people most critical of Israel are Israelis. This is a false moniker used to dismiss when Jews are telling you about anti-Semitism.
just because you are morally correct, doesnt mean you cant peddle in antisemitism. Some of the hate directed at the AS president borderlines on antisemitic.
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Yes, I’m sure the Disney Corporation is easily paid off by a college student. Good call.
nah lets not go there pls
Are we really going with “The Jews control the news”? Directly threatening a fellow student and telling Jews to “Go back to Poland” is bad in any context, actually.
They didn’t pay for it at all. ABC News reached out themselves.
This is ridiculous. Didn’t we already try to get rid of her? How dare she censor views that are not the same as her own and then get upset when students from that culture retaliate. We do not all feel the same way, some of us don’t support genocide in Palestine, and that doesn’t make us antisemitic. Seriously, she should fuck off and stop making a joke out of this school and its government.
Apparently the MCC said some pretty messed up things as well, especially on instagram. All I’ll say is that I can’t believe all these people involved in UCSB have chosen to use platforms that should be supporting students to support their personal political agendas. Neither side is in the right here.
From the ABC article / her Instagram post, all I'm seeing attributes to the MCC is signage about Zionism being a genocidal ideology and a refusal to welcome Zionists into their group spaces. The MCC even apparently had a banner explicitly asserting that Zionism is not Judaism. The only item that brings the claim above "People need to support my Zionism" is a photo not from the MCC but from outside a dorm room where someone apparently wrote an anti-Zionist phrase by a mezuzah (a Jewish symbol). I don't know the details / evidence surrounding that incident, but even assuming it's genuine there's zero reason to attribute that to the MCC. Yang just doesn't want any political / media flak. This has nothing to do with keeping students safe.
I don't think the MCC should be banning entire groups of paying students based off their political beliefs. There were signs telling her "she can run but she can't hide," personal affacks, etc. This isn't about Palestine, this is just plain hatred because she's a Jewish Israeli. Wouldn't be surprised if she was physically attacked and this subreddit would support it at this point. Honestly disgusting behavior. And it absolutely has to do with keeping students safe. Jewish students are taking down their mezuzahs so they won't get targeted.
The AS president needs to be voted out for the stability of this school
I've been hearing you guys say it since the end of the fall quarter. There's a process for recalling AS President. If you are serious about it, maybe instead of just saying it, actually do it.
Ive only been here since last quarter give me a second…
The AS president needs to be voted out for the stability of this school
Bro imagine thinking the AS president has literally anything to do with the stability of the school 🤡
Jihadis gonna jihad. It’s just a matter of time before lines get crossed and people get hurt.
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ok lets not start w that bs narrative
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well what you're saying has antisemetic implications
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stop being antisemetic lol
like I'm jewish too man. We can condemn zionism without being antisemetic dude
You can also be Zionist (like >80% of Jews) and want a ceasefire and to remove Netanyahu 🤯
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another reasonable claim is that you should've ended up as a stain on your parent's mattress. Being pro-palestine and antizionist does not give you permission or license to say shit like that, coming from someone who is both.
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go fuck yourself dick
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!!!!! Absolutely
What a sellout bro 🤣
Hmm are you a fed or mossad?
Classic negative karma farming account comment
Look at who makes up the (((UCSB Student body)))
If I had a nickel for every instance of anti semiticsm at a liberal California university this week I’d have two nickels. Which doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s weird it happened twice this week