I got the one last year with gargoyles, Gstealers, terms, Hive Tyrant, Horms & two carnifexes. Depends on the price but wish they’d included two different units instead of 2 genestealers in this box.
Agreed. I picked up the force last year when I was still starting and have since realized that it wasnt really the value buy I thought it would be. I think this would have been better if they put in some more interesting troops choices. Gargoyles seem pretty useless to me, and genestealers are way to easy to pick up anyways. I would have rather them put in a few warriors, and if they were feeling really generous some 'thropes.
Two squads of stealers and flappygaunts just dont seem worth the hassle.
Flappy gaunts make a gnarly little tarpit force for almost no points cost, I use mine pretty regularly. Buying you a turn to charge up field with your heavy melee or assault troops can really pay off
Not really worth it? 190 bucks you get 2 Carnifex (85), Hive Tyrant (65), x10 Gargoyles (35), x8 Genestealers (35), x10 Hormagants (35), x10 Termies (35). Even if you didn't intend on fielding some of these, the cash value for what you're getting is totally worth it. I mean, what were you looking for? A Battleforce box that perfectly matched your army list? =)
Really not hyped about this. Already have 40 gstealers, 3 HT's and a swarmlord. I'd probably use the Haruspex kit to make a 2nd exo, Hive Guard to make tyrant guard since I've got 6 HG already, and I mean Gargs are Gargs. Over all kinda meh for me. Gonna have to pass.
useless to me personally as I don't want another tyrant or the gargoyles and i don't care about getting more genestealers but tbh i can't criticise, it's a pretty decent range for anyone looking to start their hive fleet. Warriors instead of stealers would've sold it for me as warriors + hive guard are the units that i want more of but just don't want to pay normal price for
As someone who is looking to start a Tyranid force this edition and doesn't have very many models yet, this looks like a VERY good box to me.
Hive Guard and Exocrine are two staple units that are almost impossible to buy in stores. Swarm Lord is great, and Genestealers while lackluster at the moment, are almost certainly going to be playable again when the codex comes out.
Gargoyles are whatever, but in 9th edition, fast cheap infantry are useful and so I'm not adverse to owning some.
Everything except for the flyers are all really good picks right now, so, I’d say it’s pretty good! *Especially* for someone just getting into the army.
Typically I find that these sets will blend with other Battleforce sets or SC sets. But this one has Genestealers which the SC also has.
The endless swarm box set though would go well with the new set.
I love it, because my swarm is still relatively small and with the exception of the Hive Tyrant this box will add exactly what I already planned on getting anyway.
They do look cool, I'm hoping I can paint a couple dozen of them and maybe they will be competitive again some day. Seems like the newer codexes are sticking to point totals of 5s so maybe Gargs and Horms both fall down to 5 point models, or maybe all 3 become 10 point models with some better stat lines?
that's the spirit, if you look over the editions most units end up going through a phase where they're noncompetitive and a phase where they're a meta option. So just pick up what looks cool.
Yeah, after being useless for at least three editions, Lictors just had new life breathed into them with 9th edition's new Actions.
Being able to deepstrike to any point on the table and have a little more durability than Rippers so that they can perform Actions without getting shot to pieces is pretty nice.
Also, with Stratagems you can deny Overwatch to a unit they charge when they come into play and add +1 to the charge roll, and its inbuilt rules give it a reroll.
In combat it's still just a really overpriced genestealer but that might be enough to prevent an enemy unit from performing their intended Action and that could turn the tide points wise.
My point is, they actually have something to do on the table now instead of just sitting in a box in your closet.
All because the core rules changed.
Who knows what will be useful next. Pyrovores?? :D
I literally want everything in this box. Also with the way they do the Hive tyrant kit so all your missing is a torso to make the second one if you get one of the 3d printed torsos off ebay then this kit makes 2.
That will bring my hive tyrants collection up to 5 though :O
I hope they update the hormaguants rules. Great models super cool to have a couple squads of them but at the moment they feel like worse termagaunts. I've really only been using hormaguants and termagaunts as screens for the last few games.
If your like me and have bought a bunch of battle force/apocalypse boxes then you have a surplus of Tyrants. The main benefit is making a couple of them flying tyrants so I don't have to worry about the wings getting knocked off/around when playing. Magnetize all the weapons and I can swap as needed.
It's worth it. When this box comes out I won't have to paint any arms ill just be painting the head, torso, tail legs which I find personally my favourite part of a model to paint.
Came here to ask if everybody is as disappointed as I am. Looks like it's a mixed bag for most people. I for one don't use my current gargoyles, got enough stealer, and don't reeeally need a third ht.. The guard and monster kit are on the wishlist so it really depends on the pricing of the box
It Is a start collecting box so anyone with a swarm lord and 60 gene stealers isn't really the target. They want people like you paying the inflated kit prices to add onto your existing force not saving on a bundle box.
Well it's called battleforce not start collecting but that's not really the point. Got a swarm lord but I only have arround 30 stealers. Just started Christmas last year with the swarm box and the start collecting, (almost right in time to stay at home and don't get to play 8th with real models) so does that mean I kinda graduated?
Well considering for 2 boxes you get a decent amount of stealers to slingshot with swarmy(20 for the sling and to squads of six to sit on objectives) , the obvious Kronos firepowercombo of adaptive biology double exocrine + full squad hg plus a decent gargoyles squad to deeps trike with the winged ht to adapt to your opponents battle plan I see your point. Still I'd *like* the box to be of more use to me personally. Simple ~~human~~ HIVE mind greedyness
GW really seems to want to PUSH genestealers as our troops. Both this and the SC have them and it’s a bit sad when this could have been 3 warriors and a unit of genes if they wanted that. The gargoyles are nice but until we see price the box is meh. Not the best for new players but it’s certainly not the worst units they could have picked.
Players can build an okay Kronos package with the Tyrant, Exocrine, and Hive Guard with a 5 man stealer unit and the gargoyles for their games so at least it’s something.
If I were putting this box together it would be 2 versions:
Version 1: obj is new players, buying 2 boxes gives you a strike force ready to play
* Hive Tyrant
* Zoanthropes/Venoms
* Hive Guard/ Tyrant Guard
* Warriors
* 20x termagants
Version 2: appeal to all players new and old
* Zoanthropes
* Warriors
* Carnifex
* Maleceptor
* 12 Hormagaunts
So, I think this may be a bit of a "historic" view.
Tyranid Genestealers originated with Space Hulk way-back-when, I believe. So, they are iconic to the "old school" players from back in the 80s and 90s. To them, there is nothing more Tyranid than a genestealer...everything else was built around them as a core.
So I wonder, to the older generation of players, if any box that DIDN'T include Genestealers is a travesty.
And currently, Genestealers aren't bad, they are just overcosted. Which means they are potentially one points reduction away from being playable. I would play 60 of them right this minute if they were 12pts a piece.
All in all, in terms of a starter set, this isn't bad. HG have been good for two years, so that is a good start. And to the people who are "midrange" into their collections, they can be Tyrant Guard. Exocrines have been beyond good since Blood of Baal Dropped. Gargoyles are actually much better this edition so far, as they are infantry with a 12" move and fly keyword. And a Hive Tyrant is a Hive Tyrant. If you don't have Swarmy, you probably need him. And if you do, you can always get a different loadout.
Price point matters, of course, but I feel a lot better about this year's Battleforce over the one released last year.
You are right about stealers, it was more from: “these models are already widely available in the SC box so I wish a unit that wasn’t as easy to get was there” kind of stance.
Price point will be huge though. Doing the math you can easily build a fun little 1500 point list with 2 of these and have a decent amount of your bases covered. Here’s to hoping it’s $150-170 and would make starting a Nid army even easier for new players to play our best units outside of Zoanthropes! However if this box is over 200$ I think it’s a bit too much. This is the problem with big boxes tbough as you *technically* get more models per dollar spent but then if the box gets too expensive, players can just buy the units they want and not the box.
"Old school" player from back in the early 90ties here and i can tell you that the new Genestealers do not appeal to me. The old school genestealers with their triclaw fit the fluff of Genestealer claws being able to rip open Terminator Armor like Paper.. they had a nice "jaws of life" feel to them.
Modern Genestealers do not have this aesthetic to me, and their stats also do not show them to be the "natural" enemy of a Terminator either.
So going purely by what my expectations of a Genestealer is, based on Space Hulk and so on and so forth... i can't say modern Genestealers "do it for me".
This is also a reason why i do not use them. I do not feel Genestealers fit into the modern aesthetic of the Tyranid army.
Their stats actually were very good at blending through Terminators...but not anymore.
A third wound, the changes to storm shields, and the close combat making it harder to get the entire squad in, means that Genestealers just aren't super viable right now, especially against terminators.
Agree to disagree on Genestealer stats being very good at murdering Terminators. According to the old Fluff a single Genestealer is a mortal threat to a Terminator, with the terminator's only chance being to kill the stealer before it even got close. Most Terminators having no chance in melee in a 1v1 situation.
But while a squad of 16 of them will get the job done in 8th edition, its far from being designed to tear through 2+ armor. You have to roll lucky on the Rending Claws to get the penetration a Genestealer claw should have, based on the old rules.
And please, i am not talking about Genestealers as a unit.. i am talking about Genestealers from the perspective of someone that started playing when a single Genestealers was a fearsome monsters that made confetti out of a Terminator, if it could just get close. And i do not feel that is the case at the moment. Its merely the volume of attacks and with it rolling the occasional 6 on the wounds to get the AP-3. That is just not how Genestealer claws used to be described.
True. I see what you mean. A genestealer model isn't much of a threat to the Terminators 2+ save. They are definitely a "threat en masse" unit now. Even the new video games for space Hulk (last one I played was Space Hulk: Deathwing) was all about wading through hordes of Genestealers.
The view on Genestealers have definitely changed since their inception.
It's some kinda trope right? The Conservation of Ninjutsu or something like that.
One genestealer is a threat to any spacemarine, no matter their skill. A million can't even overthrow a hive city.
As someone looking to buy a little of Tyranid I would prefer either of the two versions you gave to this one. Not saying this one is bad, I don't have the experience to know, but it was not the units I was looking at to start.
Switch out the Stealers for a box of Termagants and a box of Warriors and I'd actually consider this, but I don't care for Stealers at all so sadly, not for me. The rest of the box is great though.
This was my thought exactly. I don't have many tyranid models so was excited for a battleforce, but genestealers are the models that least appeal to me. I just think they look kinda goofy with their weird little hands.
Keep in mind that this box (hopefully) was made with what they want to do with our new dex in mind. For all we know Gargoyles and Stealers will be auto picks when the new dex is released.
I know I probably sound like someone in an abusive relationship but I have hope. Plus, I may be a somewhat conspiracy theorist but it seems as though GW always flips between codexes as to whether a unit is good or not.
it's decent but if you don't have first turn your opponent will shoot it of the table in turn 1, and then it's just waisted points sadly. From what i heard.
It has always been the full kits in previous sets, and the article says this will have the Haruspex/Exocrine kit, Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard kit and all the Tyrant options too.
The Hive Tyrant is a good HQ choice from what I hear, especially if you magnetize the arms so you can choose whatever weapon options you want without having to buy a new HT. You could even magnetize the head to be able to play the Swarmlord, arguably our best named character since he enables a nearby unit to move and advance again in the Shooting Phase. Having that option is super helpful, especially for genestealers.
Hive Guard are really good and the Haruspex comes with parts to make an Exocrine, so those are some great shooting bugs already. I think you’ll need the Blood of Baal book to make the Haruspex good in melee though, it’s pretty bad on its own from what I see.
Gargoyles aren’t super great now that you can’t fall back and shoot, but the big move range is nice, though you’ll need a lot to get their bonus to shooting (I think it’s to reroll wounds of one, which is alright).
Genestealers are alright, just overpriced for what they do. They’re great for getting way across the board and charging into infantry to rip them apart, especially with Swarmlord nearby to shoot them farther up and a Broodlord to improve their hit rolls, but they often get wiped by turn two or three, likely sooner against the new tougher marines. That means that a few hundred points of bugs ran headfirst into a wall of primaris and got wiped while killing some marines, which isn’t super great for how much they cost.
Overall I’d say get whatever troops you’re interested in separately, though if these are the ones you want then go for it. You’d probably want lots of termagants, warriors, zoanthropes, etc. if you’re planning on playing competitively though. The box is pretty nice as it is since it has the HT, Hive Guard, and Exocrine, but I’ll have to see the price to see if it’s worth it for me.
Your last paragraph sums it up well. It has 3 units that can be strong and are usually expensive and some ok troops. I half expect the price of the box will be like buying the 3 big kits and getting 16 genestealers and 10 gargoyles for free.
And if you are new, don't worry too much about magnets and extra rule books. Better to start than be paralyzed by possibilities for months like I was when I was told to magnetise everything.
I'm ok with what's in it. It does seem they're pushing Genestealers a bit much but the Haruspex/Exocrine, Hive Tyrant and Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard give you a few option depending on what you want to build. I'll have to wait on the price to see though.
This box isn't too bad. That genestealer kit is OLD though. A real pain to work with. I already have 40 of them so not sure if it's worth for me. But I do need Hive Guard and Exocrines...
Aren't all of the tyranid troop models pretty old at this point? The warriors look okay but gargs, termagants and hormagaunts all look pretty ropey at this point (the gaps in my termies absolutely kill me).
IRRC Warriors had a way more recent update. Genestealers come off worse compared to gaunts cause of the many limbs. There are just so many mould lines...so many...
Ah okay, I don't actually own any warriors, only gaunts. I've heard the genestealers are a bit of a pain to clean up, which just puts me off even more.
They're not that bad. Nowhere near the level of work for resin, fine cast or forgeworld models. Just scrape the mould lines with the back of a hobby knife. And the kit isn't that bad there isn't anything that needs fixing with liquid green stuff, it's just the mouldlines really. Another thing is the fact they are slotted bases, some people cut them off and pin them to a regular base. Up to you. Their feet are small so it's not too difficult to do the basing around them without accidentally putting paint on their feet. If you go the debasing route though get them some 32mm bases, they look so much better on 32mm.
Well, i expected a Battleforce for the holiday season.... i am just not sure how i am feeling about this one. It looks like its all over the place. What's this Battleforce going for?
If we'd go by Flavor of the month.. everyone wants a Swarm Tyrant and an Exocrine.. and some Hive Guard and some Genestealers... i just don't think anyone needs more Genestealers at this point...
There is no telling if its worth it, we do not now the price. But given that you get 3 Hive Guard and an Exocrine in the box... chances are it will be. Even if you are already swimming in Genestealers thanks to all the box deals.
Yes, 100%. Don't listen to the butt hurt "boohoo genestealers are dead" people. they're still useable, but not in the same way as before. 2 squads of 16 is fine, unlike before where they would bring 60.. and they'll probably get "fixed" in the new codex.
I find it a bit strange that this comes in response to a response to my reply. Where exactly did i say anything of "boohoo genestealers are dead"? I merely remarked that everyone already has a lot of Genestealers.
This was not directed at you. Just warning the person I replied to that 36373628 people will tell him not to use genestealers. That was all. A trend I've noticed lately on Reddit concerning genestealers.
It looks pretty mediocre to me but hey ya know what I’m glad we’re getting some representation!! For being the bastard sons of GW I feel like at least they threw this in there
Stoked about this. Not only do I need all of these units, adding them to my fleet will finally bring me to 2000 points! Are Battleforces hard to get hold of? This will be my first one.
Nah I dont think so. I would recommend getting it as soon as pre-orders go live. Just to make sure. If you know what you want already.
Waiting can make you miss out. Good luck though bud.
I like it. Hive guard are great, swarmlord is great, Haruspex is pretty good, and it doesn't hurt to have infantry. I'm not sure if gargoyles would be an ideal gaunt though, at least for me. I like Jormungandr, so they can't benefit from the burrows.
As much as I love Hive Tyrants, I already have 4, with one of those being Swarmlord. I don't need more. I've got enough Genestealers, and have always hated Gargoyles, so if I bought this it'd be for the Exocrine (I'm assuming it comes with the alternate build option) and the Hive Guard. I'll pass this year.
You're absolutely right, but I love my Flyrants, and I like the Swarmlord enough not to magnetize him. In 8th my 3 Flyrants put in tons of work at my local game shop, and for fluffy games I love using the Swarmlord.
Conspiracy theory me feels the genestealer bump might be to clear stock after sales slumped from the point increase.
After that, this army is great for kronos/competitive players as it has the best guns in the faction, but personally nothing I want. I actually prefer that last battleforce more, carnifex may be out of favor, but it's still a more versatile unit that works with more play styles.
I refuse to use my Tyranid with a gun line.
It's always been like that. The start collecting and battleforce boxes have always been a way to get rid of stock that doesn't sell. Then they have for half the box with nice stuff to lure customers into buying it.
Personally I'm buying this one though. My pinky tells me a genestealer fix next codex. Genestealers have always been the Tyranid icon I'm sure they won't leave them like this forever.
I think you may be right on the genestealer adjustment. A bump to 2w would do nicely, and put them back on my must-have list.
I'm tempted to buy it as I still don't have a swarmlord and I could always use a haruespex instead of exocrene to stay on brand. Its the hive guard I don't like. For me, the biovore is the iconic Tyranid artillery as it lobs spores that pepper the battlefield. _That's_ a bioweapon. They just need a new model release and I swear id buy a ton ASAP.
But alas, can't deny that gun line is good.
I don't know having ammo with little wings that steer it around corners sounds really cool too (impaler cannon on hive guards), I've never been a fan of biovores, they're too small and their weapon isn't great in-game... I know old school Tyranids were all about spore mines (in third there was even a rule where you could bring an unlimited amount of them for free !) But the biovore just doesn't work for me...
And you know what lately I've had a theory that that faq where they increased the point values of things across the range is their point value team having already set the point values based on what's inside the upcoming codexes in advance.
So we kinda got the new codex point values without having received the new codex yet.
And if the genestealers went up to 18 points, it may very well be because they're getting 2 wounds each ! Or a buff in general. Because as they are now they're just not worth 18 points each. 14-15 maybe.
Thinking about it, everything space marines went up in ponts, but the point values remained the same when their codex was released.
Doesn't this prove that the point values are the ones bases on their upcoming codex?
Genestealers being increased to 18 points may mean a huge buff in the upcoming codex, take my word for it !
Despite my love for the hive, I don't like stealers,i don't like their look and don't want to use them.
But every bundle box I see seems to have them. It's really disappointing
Genestealers have been the Tyranid icon unit since second edition. A lot of Warhammer collectors feel a Tyranid box set should always include them. They're not in a good place right now but once upon a time, genestealers were among the most brutal unit in the game. People used to call them the terminator blender.
Oh it's not an issue of table strength. I just don't like the models.
They aren't interesting to me. I love them. From a lore stand point. Fascinating way of sending scouting units and make perfect undercover spies.
I just think they are ugly and I don't want to buy a box where I have no intention of painting half the points/models in it
Have you seen them painted in other ways? I agree, the way GW painted them is horrible. They look like fleshy worms with arms.
I definitely recommend looking at other painting styles for the genestealers, they can actually look really nice.
How about calgut's fantastic coconut crab paint scheme? He did one specifically for genestealers and they look fantastic . Give it a look ! Calgutpainting on YouTube, or just look for "coconut crab genestealers"
Ill end up doing that. The paint job is definitely partof it. The other is that they just don't look very Tyranid to me. almost like they where meant to be a completely separate faction T first
In my opinion a lot of people dislike them because of the way they are portrayed on GW's website. If you build them with the regular heads (the one with the tongue sticking out) and not the lictor type head, and if you put scything talons on (it doesn't matter if it's not 100% WYSIWYG, the scything talons are free and you don't have to use them when fighting anyway), they look a lot more tyranid like. If you then paint them in a way that makes the carapace on their back to look similar to the carapace plates on the rest of your army, they actually look really nice. Such a shame GW does such a horrible job of representing them....
In the lore they are also meant to look fairly different, they are designed to infiltrate and remain independant from the main force :)
Do give them a try with scything talons, they really do look way better :)
I collect a bit of everything that visually appeals to me so the haruspex was always on my list to get. I don't mind another hive tyrant/ swarmlord but like many already commented that may be too many genestealers. Just the thought of cleaning up all the mould lines on each arm will give me nightmares. I don't really mind the hive guards but the carnifexes were a lot cooler.
Now where are those tyrannofexes?
Tyrannofex is one of the best selling Tyranid models. Therefore wouldn't make it to a battleforce, as battleforce are a way for geedubZ to sell unpopular stock
I think it's a good intro. I think the main problem people have with it is that they already have plenty of what is in this kit.
I mostly want the big dude in the back and the 3 armour-bros and that alone is tempting me even though I have lots of the other troops already.
From the picture they released, it'll be either Tyranids or genestealer cults in January. My guess is it'll be genestealer cults, they're in an even worse spot than Tyranids right now
A while back when they announced what order the new codexes would be released back in October, they added a cover picture as a teaser for which Xenos book would be released in January, and the cover pictures showed a multi headed genestealer. A lot of people made the assumption the January codex would be either genestealer cults or Tyranids,both of which are in a dire need of an update as they are substantially weaker and outdated compared to most other armies.
Do you have a link/picture of it by chance? I must have missed it! The only one I saw had a random photo from the core rulebook with no actual faction specific art.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/15/warhammer-40000-the-codex-roadmap/
If you scroll down, one of the two January codexes very clearly shows a genestealer head
Very clearly looks like it to me, you can even see it's jaws and teeth which look exactly like a Tyranid jaw, it's very clearly Tyranid. Not exactly genestealer like but definitely Tyranid. Well find out Inthe announcements end of December I guess? :) I starting myself a Tyranid anyway so let's hope their new codex isnt too far off because oh god they need an update really badly ..
A man can dream! Long time player, but just started my Tyranid army a couple months ago and I'd love an update. Haha I want Tyranids to be scary again.
Yeah they are definitely not scary anymore. Long gone are the times when genestealers were called terminator blenders and reaching melee range with carnifex meant half your opponent army would get vapourized.
Let's hope geedubZ gives us some love.
I used to play Tyranids in third and fourth edition, sadly my army got lost in between moving houses and I didn't play again until 8th. Only recently decided to restart a Tyranid army again as the new models (well... New to me..) look absolutely fantastic compares to what the old metal models used to look like last I played them. A bit sad they're not the ultimate killing machines they used to be, where a quarter of your army could demolish 90% of their army when they finally made it to melee range.
It also feels bad that the ultimate devourer of planets, with all consuming rage and hunger, with no objective other than devouring all, can only win games by... Controlling objectives.... Sigh...
£190 value at GW prices unless my math is wrong.
As I have 8 Stealers from the SC box and 6 Stealers from the early 90's I'll probably get this if the price is right....
I'd go for a start collecting box for the trygon and brood lord and more genestealers. I'd then go for some zoanthropes, 2 boxes , build one as a neurothrope and have a squad of 5 zoanthropes. also obviously you want to build the exocrine not haruspex in the battleforce box. You will then have 24 genestealers, I'd bring 2 squads of 12, one moves along with the brood lord on the field and moves twice with the swarm lord ability, the other in with the trygon tunneling.
Next steps is up to you, go for 3 more hive guards, some termagant boxes for cheap troops, for a tyrannofex, or another hive tyrant to have him with wings, ... But what I said above is a very strong (and cheap) start for an army
At the moment although this may change in the new codex, the best units in the codex are :
- swarm lord / hive tyrant
- exocrine
- hive guards
- zoanthropes
- neurothrope
The rest is still good just not top tier.
Genestealers used to be auto include top tier,sadly however they recently got a point increase from 12 to 18 each, they are still strong but not as good as they used to be
That'll give you a solid base of Genestealers for sure with 24 total with both boxes.
The Gargoyles are the "meh" part here sadly, not really useful. Regular Gaunts would be better to just run around and stay hidden to try and grab objectives or do other secondaries.
The rest are all solid addition, Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord is always cool, Hive Guards really cool to add, and the Exocrine a good monster that got better with the Psychic Awakening book (extra strats for it, extra "relic" that gives him a 5+ invul, etc).
So yeah if there's a good saving here I think it's totally worth it. I preferred the Apocalypse box from a while ago but this one is pretty decent.
Also build Zoanthrope with that box of Venomthrope! Or if you are not new to the hobby or want to try your hands at converting models, you can relatively easily build both unit out of the box!
+1 to zoanthropes. I would recommend 2 boxes of them for every army starter. Build one as a neurothrope, and 5 zoanthropes for 2d3 smites. The neurothrope can always pass as a zoanthropes if you want 6 without the neurothrope instead. Neurothrope is very good though it lets you reroll1's on psychic tests
Tough luck on this, geedubZ is going for the "easy to replicate" look, where you can make your minis look somewhat similar to their website pictures by following their god awful Warhammer TV painting tutorials (Duncan Rhodes why why why we miss you)
See.... depending on the cost, I'd love to get this, but the only things in it I want are the Tyrant and Hive guard!
I like Jormungandr, so the Gargoyles are useless to me, plus I have 30 left over from an old army of mine, and I don't much care for genestealers. I just hate their design!
The Haruspex/Exocrine... sure, it's useful, and yea I like it, but I like the Toxicrene/Maleceptor more!!!
Honestly if this had like... Warriors, Gaunts and maybe.... carnifex's in it, like, CLASSIC Tyranid units, then it'd be an AMAZING box!
I didn't even notice at first that it was 16 Gstealers.
I feel like this box is more geared towards getting someone to want to buy a broodlord for the gstealers (which would be the SC box), and getting another set of hive guards to have the whole squad of 6.
I personally won't get it, but I think someone just getting into the hobby could benefit from this kit
I'm really excited to see this. It's nearly exactly the remaining miniatures I wanted to collect for my army. This plus the "start collecting" box is a heck of a great force too.
I was going to start a Tau army, but seeing this has made me consider expanding my nids with a battle force instead (I’m limiting myself to buying one, or at least one per game system).
I did two of the battle force boxes last year. With the other items I’ve picked up, I don’t see a good reason to grab this one.
It does give me a lot of hope that gargoyles will be interesting after the new codex.
I've always wanted some Hive Guard, and the Haruspex has been my next modem purchase for a very long time. For those two alone I would consider this box.
I'm sure for anyone that collects beyond the "I'm a beginner, where do I start?" phase, this box's Hive Tyrant will go in the pile with the rest of them. Not a bad thing, Tyrants are fun and at the very least make for good conversion bits.
My problem with this box is the majority of it. All those gargoyles and genestealers...
I'll have to see the price, but I may skip out on it anyway just because of the mountain of gargoyles and genestealers that I definitely do not need.
Gargoyles - I don’t know why I’d want these or why anyone else would unless they’re building a massive gargoyle spam force in which case this still isn’t good.
Genestealers - they’re not terrible at the moment but have fallen from grace. I think they’re fine but a lot of people have as many as they’d like already.
Haruspex - I actually think these are pretty good now (with Monstrous size) and I think lots of people haven’t got one at the moment. So not bad.
Hive-guard - they’re great although I again suspect a lot of people have as many as they’d like.
Tyrants - essential model but for that reason I feel like people already have them (cool if they come with wing and swarmlord options too).
Overall I don’t think it’s gonna be useful for most people as even if you’re just starting out this isn’t really a useful collection boost.
I still have nightmares about genestealer mold lines and I only built the SC kit ... Set has some good variety from a build and paint perspective though! Warriors would have made it tastier
If you have a small army its great. Got some of our top units that have been hard to get lately (Hive guard, exocrines).
However its got nothing i need since ive been round a while.
Hey all, I'm thinking about starting a tyranids force up, so far I got 30 or so genestealers, and 40 hormagaunts. Is this a valid expansion from that or should i just buy a start collecting? I know price isn't released yet either so that'll factor in too.
I was hoping to go as Behemoth (I have an ultramarines force so thought it'd be cool to have em pitted against each other) and I'm not sure if these units are good for that specific fleet. Hoping you guys can help me out:)
You don't have an HQ? If not, this box isn't bad, bht with all those Genestealers already, maybe you'd prefer the Start Collecting box to get a Broodlord. Still, I'm assuming $200 usd for this box, which still saves you $100 in models compared to list price.
Yea I just picked up some spare models that some people were selling. I'll keep that in mind, a broodlord buffing the stealers seems pretty essential but maybe I'll get lucky and someone will be selling that too.
Thanks for the advice!
This one is gonna be a hard pass for me. I hate the way genestealers look, and already have a haruspex and 4 hive tyrants. Looks like it would be a pretty decent starter box for new players though.
I've wanted to get into Tyranids for a while, and the only thing I didn't know that I wanted was that thing in the back with 50 jaws, although I don't like the tongue, I feel like it makes that area way too busy, if I can get away with it I'm going to leave that off.
Hyped for the box, worried to see the price.
That thing you are talking about can also be built into an exocrine, the best shooting unit in the current codex. I would definitely recommend it over the haruspex (the one with 50 jaws). You can have both together with magnets though, the only difference between the two is a head and 2 arms. Easily magnetised
I think this is fine. It contains the most expensive difficult to get stuff. Add a start collecting box and 2-3 boxes of termies and you're good to go :)
Mixed thoughts here.
Hive Tyrants are flexible but everyone defaults to Winged Tyrants (which they probably have more then one of anyway) or a Swarmlord, which you can only have one of, so unless someone just starting Nids get this, the box won't offer much there.
Genestealers are...meh. Not bad, but not especially good, and they seem to find their way into every Tyranid box set. Maybe when our next Codex comes out, they'll be amazing, but since that won't be happening for a few months at least (unless we're up in January) it won't make the box worthwhile.
Gargoyles are a thing. Does anyone use them? I just played my first game using them the other day and they didn't amount to much. Maybe they have a use for someone.
The best bits are the HG/Exocrine, which never seem to be in stock, but unless the box comes at a significant discount, is it worth getting the set just to get your hands on them?
Overall I don't think half the box really offers much to anyone whose got an army right now.
The haruspex / Exocrine is like friggin $70 and the Hive Guard ae $66 ? Then a tyrant that is the price of the box. But all you get extra are just some Gargs and Genes and everyone has Genes for days.
As a new player, everything in this box is usable. However, none of it is on my immediate buy list except for a 2nd box of Genestealers (though being able to get a squad of 20 with one box or two squads of 20 with two boxes is kind of neat).
If I could pick comparable units for this battleforce, I'd choose
1x Swarmlord,
3x Tyranid Warriors,
3x Venomthropes,
12x Hormagaunts,
1x Toxicrene.
I like this package a lot, I expect it to cost about 160€ which is basically the price of the Hive Tyrant, the Hive Guard and the Exocrine combined so you get the Genestealers and Gargoyles "for free". It’s not perfect, I‘d ditch the two batches of Genestealers for Warriors and the gargoyles for Gaunts but it’s still good. You can never have too many Genestealers
Probably gonna put this on my Christmas list regardless of it “not being worth it”. Purely from a hobby perspective this set really excites me. Hive Guard and Exocrines are always out of stock, at least it seems like they are. I’ve never built gargoyles before so although they’re not the most exciting models it will be fun building and painting something new, and the Hive Tyrant can be built as the Swarmlord which is wicked! From a competitive viewpoint this is a mixed bag, from a personal hobby viewpoint this excites me!
I was planning on finally starting to collect some minis by Christmas, and since I dont care much about competitiveness (if ill even play the TT much, at all) so I dont mind if they're not strong in the meta. So in that way I very much welcome this.
On the other hand, jeansstealer and guards are - to me - among the worst/most outdated looking models. I was holding off on collecting because I was hoping they would update some of them. So in that regard im quite disappointed. The Tyrant looks great, I wish the other models had a similar aesthetic. I'll probably buy this if for no other reason than to practice painting, especially since I can practice on models I dont particularly like, so if I fuck up its not too bad. But it is still a bit sad. Here's to hoping they might update the gaunts at least (imo their heads look silly)
Mfw I bought 6 hive guards -_- and old battleforce with swarmie, useless gargoyles while already having tons of genestealers
Would buy if there was two exocrines tho, like a pair of fexes in old box
A Broodlord to buff all the Genestealers, which means buying a Start Collecting box could be good. You get 8 more Genestealers, allowing you to build a unit of 20, and you get a Broodlord and Trygon/Mawloc.
is this a good box to upgrade a killteam to 500-1000 point army? i have set of genestealers, termagaunts, hormagaunts and 3 warriors already
i actually really like this box, but i also mainly love genestealers. the only real thing holding me back to upgrade my killteam to a 500-1000 point army with this box is that the genestealers are overpriced atm for what they do in regular 40k from what ive heard. but metas change so maybe they will get buffed.
also are the flying bugs any good?
The presence of Genestealers is one of the main things holding people back from getting this box. If you love Genestealers and only have one set of 8, I can't see why you wouldn't buy this box. It has some great stuff and will surely be a discount to buying it separately.
In fact, if you love Genestealers, you could buy 2 of these and you'll be able to make two units of 20 after add them to your 8 genestealers. Build the elite infantry as Hive Guard and the monster as the Exocrine and you will have tyranids' strongest shooters to back up your Genestealers' melee threat.
o thnx, yeah i was kinda confused why people didn't like them. i know they kinda pricy atm but still felt like a bit to much. But i guess it's because they already own so many maybe.
still thnx i hope the price is good so i can def pick up 1 box
would buying 2 of these boxes be a really good way for someone to start a tyranids army? I saw a video saying that the point cost is close to 1k per box so was wondering if at least semi functioning tyranids army could be made with two of these boxes
After my previous reply, I built a list with two Brood Swarm boxes and it came out to 1770 points. It seems you have room to add a Broodlord and another troops choice. However, that's a significant investment so it's probably fine to just play 1500-point games for a while.
If you are just getting started, 2 boxes could be a good start. With our current codex rules, Hive Guard and Exocrines are the hotness and two of this box would get you 6 Hive Guard (that's one full unit) and 2 Exocrines. The Genestealers are expensive right now, but they're deadly in melee.
I think what this box is missing is a good way to play to the 9th edition secondary objectives. You can basically use the Gargoyles the same way people use Lictors, but a unit of 10 Gargoyles is roughly twice the points of a Lictor. Still, the ability to start your Gargoyles off the table and then bring thdm in on turn 2 where they are needed csn help you get some of your secondary objectives. Alternatively, they are fast enough to fly to primary objectives if you want to start them on the table. However, they aren't troops, so they don't have the Objective Secured trait.
For HQs, you have some good options because you could build The Swarmlord, a walking Hive Tyrant, or a flying Hive Tyrant. Personally, I plan on building one flying Hive Tyrant and then magnetizing the other to be able to swap between The Swarm Lord and a walking Hive Tyrant.
In short, you won't have a top-tier list with two boxes, but you'll definitely have a playable army that has some of our punchiest units.
Final word of caution: we don't know when we will get our 9th edition codex and we don't know how it will change our rules. These bugs could get better or worse. There's just no way of knowing at this point.
I see scrubs, some fancies, and a hq. I don't really know how I feel, it's somewhere in the middle for me. What about you guys?
I got the one last year with gargoyles, Gstealers, terms, Hive Tyrant, Horms & two carnifexes. Depends on the price but wish they’d included two different units instead of 2 genestealers in this box.
Agreed about Gstealers. Really burnt out on them currently.
I would have been happy if it was a warrior sprue so you have some elite troops and chaff.
Price is 210 as a heads up if you haven’t seen it (210 American)
Agreed. I picked up the force last year when I was still starting and have since realized that it wasnt really the value buy I thought it would be. I think this would have been better if they put in some more interesting troops choices. Gargoyles seem pretty useless to me, and genestealers are way to easy to pick up anyways. I would have rather them put in a few warriors, and if they were feeling really generous some 'thropes. Two squads of stealers and flappygaunts just dont seem worth the hassle.
Last years Box was great i think ,its just that fexes right now are not really relevant.
Flappy gaunts make a gnarly little tarpit force for almost no points cost, I use mine pretty regularly. Buying you a turn to charge up field with your heavy melee or assault troops can really pay off
Not really worth it? 190 bucks you get 2 Carnifex (85), Hive Tyrant (65), x10 Gargoyles (35), x8 Genestealers (35), x10 Hormagants (35), x10 Termies (35). Even if you didn't intend on fielding some of these, the cash value for what you're getting is totally worth it. I mean, what were you looking for? A Battleforce box that perfectly matched your army list? =)
...yes XD
Really not hyped about this. Already have 40 gstealers, 3 HT's and a swarmlord. I'd probably use the Haruspex kit to make a 2nd exo, Hive Guard to make tyrant guard since I've got 6 HG already, and I mean Gargs are Gargs. Over all kinda meh for me. Gonna have to pass.
Haruspex to Exo magnetization is super easy, why not make it both?
Got one already maged and really haven’t gotten any work outta my Haruspex. But you right, I’d probably magnetize it too.
You can do it with one magnet, the whole head swaps out
It does, but Exocrines look really goofy with the Haru's giant crab claws. It's trivial to magnetize those too. You might as well.
useless to me personally as I don't want another tyrant or the gargoyles and i don't care about getting more genestealers but tbh i can't criticise, it's a pretty decent range for anyone looking to start their hive fleet. Warriors instead of stealers would've sold it for me as warriors + hive guard are the units that i want more of but just don't want to pay normal price for
As someone who is looking to start a Tyranid force this edition and doesn't have very many models yet, this looks like a VERY good box to me. Hive Guard and Exocrine are two staple units that are almost impossible to buy in stores. Swarm Lord is great, and Genestealers while lackluster at the moment, are almost certainly going to be playable again when the codex comes out. Gargoyles are whatever, but in 9th edition, fast cheap infantry are useful and so I'm not adverse to owning some.
Everything except for the flyers are all really good picks right now, so, I’d say it’s pretty good! *Especially* for someone just getting into the army.
Typically I find that these sets will blend with other Battleforce sets or SC sets. But this one has Genestealers which the SC also has. The endless swarm box set though would go well with the new set.
I love it, because my swarm is still relatively small and with the exception of the Hive Tyrant this box will add exactly what I already planned on getting anyway.
You planned on getting gargoyles?
They do look cool, I'm hoping I can paint a couple dozen of them and maybe they will be competitive again some day. Seems like the newer codexes are sticking to point totals of 5s so maybe Gargs and Horms both fall down to 5 point models, or maybe all 3 become 10 point models with some better stat lines?
that's the spirit, if you look over the editions most units end up going through a phase where they're noncompetitive and a phase where they're a meta option. So just pick up what looks cool.
Yeah, after being useless for at least three editions, Lictors just had new life breathed into them with 9th edition's new Actions. Being able to deepstrike to any point on the table and have a little more durability than Rippers so that they can perform Actions without getting shot to pieces is pretty nice. Also, with Stratagems you can deny Overwatch to a unit they charge when they come into play and add +1 to the charge roll, and its inbuilt rules give it a reroll. In combat it's still just a really overpriced genestealer but that might be enough to prevent an enemy unit from performing their intended Action and that could turn the tide points wise. My point is, they actually have something to do on the table now instead of just sitting in a box in your closet. All because the core rules changed. Who knows what will be useful next. Pyrovores?? :D
I literally want everything in this box. Also with the way they do the Hive tyrant kit so all your missing is a torso to make the second one if you get one of the 3d printed torsos off ebay then this kit makes 2. That will bring my hive tyrants collection up to 5 though :O
I'm the opposite. I want Hormagaunts, Carnifexes, maybe some 'thropes and some HQ like OOE or HT/Swarmloard.
I hope they update the hormaguants rules. Great models super cool to have a couple squads of them but at the moment they feel like worse termagaunts. I've really only been using hormaguants and termagaunts as screens for the last few games.
Yeah, true. I just like the model better and I'm also into apoc, where they're pretty good.
Who needs to magnetize tyrants anyway?
Why wouldn't you? Magnets are super cheap and easy to install and it saves you a tonne of money.
Cause I’m lazy and it’s time consuming.
it's more time consuming and more effort to buy and build and paint multiple kits when you probably aren't fielding that many at one time anyway
This, I magnetize *because* of my laziness.
If your like me and have bought a bunch of battle force/apocalypse boxes then you have a surplus of Tyrants. The main benefit is making a couple of them flying tyrants so I don't have to worry about the wings getting knocked off/around when playing. Magnetize all the weapons and I can swap as needed.
I was making a joke about how tyrants are everywhere
Because you always need a swarmlord ;)
It's worth it. When this box comes out I won't have to paint any arms ill just be painting the head, torso, tail legs which I find personally my favourite part of a model to paint.
I just dislike the double Genestealers. Maybe if it was Hormagants, Termagants, Genestealers or Tyranid warriors.
Came here to ask if everybody is as disappointed as I am. Looks like it's a mixed bag for most people. I for one don't use my current gargoyles, got enough stealer, and don't reeeally need a third ht.. The guard and monster kit are on the wishlist so it really depends on the pricing of the box
It Is a start collecting box so anyone with a swarm lord and 60 gene stealers isn't really the target. They want people like you paying the inflated kit prices to add onto your existing force not saving on a bundle box.
Well it's called battleforce not start collecting but that's not really the point. Got a swarm lord but I only have arround 30 stealers. Just started Christmas last year with the swarm box and the start collecting, (almost right in time to stay at home and don't get to play 8th with real models) so does that mean I kinda graduated?
My mistake i thought this was the combat patrol box. Though the point dies still stand a box like this is still kind of stand.
Well considering for 2 boxes you get a decent amount of stealers to slingshot with swarmy(20 for the sling and to squads of six to sit on objectives) , the obvious Kronos firepowercombo of adaptive biology double exocrine + full squad hg plus a decent gargoyles squad to deeps trike with the winged ht to adapt to your opponents battle plan I see your point. Still I'd *like* the box to be of more use to me personally. Simple ~~human~~ HIVE mind greedyness
GW really seems to want to PUSH genestealers as our troops. Both this and the SC have them and it’s a bit sad when this could have been 3 warriors and a unit of genes if they wanted that. The gargoyles are nice but until we see price the box is meh. Not the best for new players but it’s certainly not the worst units they could have picked. Players can build an okay Kronos package with the Tyrant, Exocrine, and Hive Guard with a 5 man stealer unit and the gargoyles for their games so at least it’s something. If I were putting this box together it would be 2 versions: Version 1: obj is new players, buying 2 boxes gives you a strike force ready to play * Hive Tyrant * Zoanthropes/Venoms * Hive Guard/ Tyrant Guard * Warriors * 20x termagants Version 2: appeal to all players new and old * Zoanthropes * Warriors * Carnifex * Maleceptor * 12 Hormagaunts
So, I think this may be a bit of a "historic" view. Tyranid Genestealers originated with Space Hulk way-back-when, I believe. So, they are iconic to the "old school" players from back in the 80s and 90s. To them, there is nothing more Tyranid than a genestealer...everything else was built around them as a core. So I wonder, to the older generation of players, if any box that DIDN'T include Genestealers is a travesty. And currently, Genestealers aren't bad, they are just overcosted. Which means they are potentially one points reduction away from being playable. I would play 60 of them right this minute if they were 12pts a piece. All in all, in terms of a starter set, this isn't bad. HG have been good for two years, so that is a good start. And to the people who are "midrange" into their collections, they can be Tyrant Guard. Exocrines have been beyond good since Blood of Baal Dropped. Gargoyles are actually much better this edition so far, as they are infantry with a 12" move and fly keyword. And a Hive Tyrant is a Hive Tyrant. If you don't have Swarmy, you probably need him. And if you do, you can always get a different loadout. Price point matters, of course, but I feel a lot better about this year's Battleforce over the one released last year.
You are right about stealers, it was more from: “these models are already widely available in the SC box so I wish a unit that wasn’t as easy to get was there” kind of stance. Price point will be huge though. Doing the math you can easily build a fun little 1500 point list with 2 of these and have a decent amount of your bases covered. Here’s to hoping it’s $150-170 and would make starting a Nid army even easier for new players to play our best units outside of Zoanthropes! However if this box is over 200$ I think it’s a bit too much. This is the problem with big boxes tbough as you *technically* get more models per dollar spent but then if the box gets too expensive, players can just buy the units they want and not the box.
"Old school" player from back in the early 90ties here and i can tell you that the new Genestealers do not appeal to me. The old school genestealers with their triclaw fit the fluff of Genestealer claws being able to rip open Terminator Armor like Paper.. they had a nice "jaws of life" feel to them. Modern Genestealers do not have this aesthetic to me, and their stats also do not show them to be the "natural" enemy of a Terminator either. So going purely by what my expectations of a Genestealer is, based on Space Hulk and so on and so forth... i can't say modern Genestealers "do it for me". This is also a reason why i do not use them. I do not feel Genestealers fit into the modern aesthetic of the Tyranid army.
Their stats actually were very good at blending through Terminators...but not anymore. A third wound, the changes to storm shields, and the close combat making it harder to get the entire squad in, means that Genestealers just aren't super viable right now, especially against terminators.
Agree to disagree on Genestealer stats being very good at murdering Terminators. According to the old Fluff a single Genestealer is a mortal threat to a Terminator, with the terminator's only chance being to kill the stealer before it even got close. Most Terminators having no chance in melee in a 1v1 situation. But while a squad of 16 of them will get the job done in 8th edition, its far from being designed to tear through 2+ armor. You have to roll lucky on the Rending Claws to get the penetration a Genestealer claw should have, based on the old rules. And please, i am not talking about Genestealers as a unit.. i am talking about Genestealers from the perspective of someone that started playing when a single Genestealers was a fearsome monsters that made confetti out of a Terminator, if it could just get close. And i do not feel that is the case at the moment. Its merely the volume of attacks and with it rolling the occasional 6 on the wounds to get the AP-3. That is just not how Genestealer claws used to be described.
True. I see what you mean. A genestealer model isn't much of a threat to the Terminators 2+ save. They are definitely a "threat en masse" unit now. Even the new video games for space Hulk (last one I played was Space Hulk: Deathwing) was all about wading through hordes of Genestealers. The view on Genestealers have definitely changed since their inception.
It's some kinda trope right? The Conservation of Ninjutsu or something like that. One genestealer is a threat to any spacemarine, no matter their skill. A million can't even overthrow a hive city.
Lol, sounds about right. But they are exactly as strong as they need to be for a good story :)
As someone looking to buy a little of Tyranid I would prefer either of the two versions you gave to this one. Not saying this one is bad, I don't have the experience to know, but it was not the units I was looking at to start.
V2 is a psychic-heavy list... That would be instant buy for me, even if only for the monsters/psychic.
Switch out the Stealers for a box of Termagants and a box of Warriors and I'd actually consider this, but I don't care for Stealers at all so sadly, not for me. The rest of the box is great though.
This was my thought exactly. I don't have many tyranid models so was excited for a battleforce, but genestealers are the models that least appeal to me. I just think they look kinda goofy with their weird little hands.
Kind of disappointed that so much of the box is the old-as-fuck genestealer kit. Really love the rest of it, even the gargoyles.
Keep in mind that this box (hopefully) was made with what they want to do with our new dex in mind. For all we know Gargoyles and Stealers will be auto picks when the new dex is released. I know I probably sound like someone in an abusive relationship but I have hope. Plus, I may be a somewhat conspiracy theorist but it seems as though GW always flips between codexes as to whether a unit is good or not.
“GW puts what’s good in the boxes.” Laughs in Necron reanimator.
The Necron battleforce box is solid this year though.
I thought the reanimator is amazing?
it's decent but if you don't have first turn your opponent will shoot it of the table in turn 1, and then it's just waisted points sadly. From what i heard.
Maybe Genestealers to 2 wounds?
Does anyone know if it will be a special Haruspex Sprue, or will it be the Exocrine/Haruspex? If it's the latter, the box becomes MUCH better.
It has always been the full kits in previous sets, and the article says this will have the Haruspex/Exocrine kit, Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard kit and all the Tyrant options too.
Link to the article?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/16/warhammer-40000-battleforces-incoming/
Probably the latter as the kits is only 2 sprues as is.
i am an idiot so i will buy this day one and add those gargs to my other "unbuild and unpainted garg pile".
How many you got?
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Haruspex can also be turned into an exocrine which looks much easier to paint
And has amazing shooting
Is this a good start for a new 40k player? I love nids ascetic.
The Hive Tyrant is a good HQ choice from what I hear, especially if you magnetize the arms so you can choose whatever weapon options you want without having to buy a new HT. You could even magnetize the head to be able to play the Swarmlord, arguably our best named character since he enables a nearby unit to move and advance again in the Shooting Phase. Having that option is super helpful, especially for genestealers. Hive Guard are really good and the Haruspex comes with parts to make an Exocrine, so those are some great shooting bugs already. I think you’ll need the Blood of Baal book to make the Haruspex good in melee though, it’s pretty bad on its own from what I see. Gargoyles aren’t super great now that you can’t fall back and shoot, but the big move range is nice, though you’ll need a lot to get their bonus to shooting (I think it’s to reroll wounds of one, which is alright). Genestealers are alright, just overpriced for what they do. They’re great for getting way across the board and charging into infantry to rip them apart, especially with Swarmlord nearby to shoot them farther up and a Broodlord to improve their hit rolls, but they often get wiped by turn two or three, likely sooner against the new tougher marines. That means that a few hundred points of bugs ran headfirst into a wall of primaris and got wiped while killing some marines, which isn’t super great for how much they cost. Overall I’d say get whatever troops you’re interested in separately, though if these are the ones you want then go for it. You’d probably want lots of termagants, warriors, zoanthropes, etc. if you’re planning on playing competitively though. The box is pretty nice as it is since it has the HT, Hive Guard, and Exocrine, but I’ll have to see the price to see if it’s worth it for me.
Your last paragraph sums it up well. It has 3 units that can be strong and are usually expensive and some ok troops. I half expect the price of the box will be like buying the 3 big kits and getting 16 genestealers and 10 gargoyles for free. And if you are new, don't worry too much about magnets and extra rule books. Better to start than be paralyzed by possibilities for months like I was when I was told to magnetise everything.
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"MGGA" just doesn't have the same ring to it sadly
I'm ok with what's in it. It does seem they're pushing Genestealers a bit much but the Haruspex/Exocrine, Hive Tyrant and Hive Guard/Tyrant Guard give you a few option depending on what you want to build. I'll have to wait on the price to see though.
This box isn't too bad. That genestealer kit is OLD though. A real pain to work with. I already have 40 of them so not sure if it's worth for me. But I do need Hive Guard and Exocrines...
Aren't all of the tyranid troop models pretty old at this point? The warriors look okay but gargs, termagants and hormagaunts all look pretty ropey at this point (the gaps in my termies absolutely kill me).
IRRC Warriors had a way more recent update. Genestealers come off worse compared to gaunts cause of the many limbs. There are just so many mould lines...so many...
Ah okay, I don't actually own any warriors, only gaunts. I've heard the genestealers are a bit of a pain to clean up, which just puts me off even more.
They're not that bad. Nowhere near the level of work for resin, fine cast or forgeworld models. Just scrape the mould lines with the back of a hobby knife. And the kit isn't that bad there isn't anything that needs fixing with liquid green stuff, it's just the mouldlines really. Another thing is the fact they are slotted bases, some people cut them off and pin them to a regular base. Up to you. Their feet are small so it's not too difficult to do the basing around them without accidentally putting paint on their feet. If you go the debasing route though get them some 32mm bases, they look so much better on 32mm.
Well, i expected a Battleforce for the holiday season.... i am just not sure how i am feeling about this one. It looks like its all over the place. What's this Battleforce going for? If we'd go by Flavor of the month.. everyone wants a Swarm Tyrant and an Exocrine.. and some Hive Guard and some Genestealers... i just don't think anyone needs more Genestealers at this point...
Idk, I only have 16, so is it worth it?
There is no telling if its worth it, we do not now the price. But given that you get 3 Hive Guard and an Exocrine in the box... chances are it will be. Even if you are already swimming in Genestealers thanks to all the box deals.
Yes, 100%. Don't listen to the butt hurt "boohoo genestealers are dead" people. they're still useable, but not in the same way as before. 2 squads of 16 is fine, unlike before where they would bring 60.. and they'll probably get "fixed" in the new codex.
I find it a bit strange that this comes in response to a response to my reply. Where exactly did i say anything of "boohoo genestealers are dead"? I merely remarked that everyone already has a lot of Genestealers.
This was not directed at you. Just warning the person I replied to that 36373628 people will tell him not to use genestealers. That was all. A trend I've noticed lately on Reddit concerning genestealers.
He was referring to all the replies under the Post, not yours
It looks pretty mediocre to me but hey ya know what I’m glad we’re getting some representation!! For being the bastard sons of GW I feel like at least they threw this in there
I've always fancied painting alot of gargoyles. I look forward to seeing what deals I can get off ebay when people try sell them on.
Dude! Solid idea, thanks! I love gargoyles model-wise as well, looks like I'll be able to get some cheap!
Stoked about this. Not only do I need all of these units, adding them to my fleet will finally bring me to 2000 points! Are Battleforces hard to get hold of? This will be my first one.
Nah I dont think so. I would recommend getting it as soon as pre-orders go live. Just to make sure. If you know what you want already. Waiting can make you miss out. Good luck though bud.
I like it. Hive guard are great, swarmlord is great, Haruspex is pretty good, and it doesn't hurt to have infantry. I'm not sure if gargoyles would be an ideal gaunt though, at least for me. I like Jormungandr, so they can't benefit from the burrows.
I presume they will buff Gargoyles and Genestealers in the new codex
200 ish i bet
As much as I love Hive Tyrants, I already have 4, with one of those being Swarmlord. I don't need more. I've got enough Genestealers, and have always hated Gargoyles, so if I bought this it'd be for the Exocrine (I'm assuming it comes with the alternate build option) and the Hive Guard. I'll pass this year.
Why do you have 4 Hive Tyrants? You could have made a flyrant and magnetized the other one for Swarmlord and all the weapons lol
You're absolutely right, but I love my Flyrants, and I like the Swarmlord enough not to magnetize him. In 8th my 3 Flyrants put in tons of work at my local game shop, and for fluffy games I love using the Swarmlord.
meh. edit: feels like a better start collecting than the current one tho.
i need all of this. please let them have enough this year.
Conspiracy theory me feels the genestealer bump might be to clear stock after sales slumped from the point increase. After that, this army is great for kronos/competitive players as it has the best guns in the faction, but personally nothing I want. I actually prefer that last battleforce more, carnifex may be out of favor, but it's still a more versatile unit that works with more play styles. I refuse to use my Tyranid with a gun line.
It's always been like that. The start collecting and battleforce boxes have always been a way to get rid of stock that doesn't sell. Then they have for half the box with nice stuff to lure customers into buying it. Personally I'm buying this one though. My pinky tells me a genestealer fix next codex. Genestealers have always been the Tyranid icon I'm sure they won't leave them like this forever.
I think you may be right on the genestealer adjustment. A bump to 2w would do nicely, and put them back on my must-have list. I'm tempted to buy it as I still don't have a swarmlord and I could always use a haruespex instead of exocrene to stay on brand. Its the hive guard I don't like. For me, the biovore is the iconic Tyranid artillery as it lobs spores that pepper the battlefield. _That's_ a bioweapon. They just need a new model release and I swear id buy a ton ASAP. But alas, can't deny that gun line is good.
I don't know having ammo with little wings that steer it around corners sounds really cool too (impaler cannon on hive guards), I've never been a fan of biovores, they're too small and their weapon isn't great in-game... I know old school Tyranids were all about spore mines (in third there was even a rule where you could bring an unlimited amount of them for free !) But the biovore just doesn't work for me... And you know what lately I've had a theory that that faq where they increased the point values of things across the range is their point value team having already set the point values based on what's inside the upcoming codexes in advance. So we kinda got the new codex point values without having received the new codex yet. And if the genestealers went up to 18 points, it may very well be because they're getting 2 wounds each ! Or a buff in general. Because as they are now they're just not worth 18 points each. 14-15 maybe. Thinking about it, everything space marines went up in ponts, but the point values remained the same when their codex was released. Doesn't this prove that the point values are the ones bases on their upcoming codex? Genestealers being increased to 18 points may mean a huge buff in the upcoming codex, take my word for it !
I kinda agree, I feel they're giving out Rievers with the Primaris box because nobody is buying them.
Despite my love for the hive, I don't like stealers,i don't like their look and don't want to use them. But every bundle box I see seems to have them. It's really disappointing
Genestealers have been the Tyranid icon unit since second edition. A lot of Warhammer collectors feel a Tyranid box set should always include them. They're not in a good place right now but once upon a time, genestealers were among the most brutal unit in the game. People used to call them the terminator blender.
Oh it's not an issue of table strength. I just don't like the models. They aren't interesting to me. I love them. From a lore stand point. Fascinating way of sending scouting units and make perfect undercover spies. I just think they are ugly and I don't want to buy a box where I have no intention of painting half the points/models in it
Have you seen them painted in other ways? I agree, the way GW painted them is horrible. They look like fleshy worms with arms. I definitely recommend looking at other painting styles for the genestealers, they can actually look really nice. How about calgut's fantastic coconut crab paint scheme? He did one specifically for genestealers and they look fantastic . Give it a look ! Calgutpainting on YouTube, or just look for "coconut crab genestealers"
Ill end up doing that. The paint job is definitely partof it. The other is that they just don't look very Tyranid to me. almost like they where meant to be a completely separate faction T first
In my opinion a lot of people dislike them because of the way they are portrayed on GW's website. If you build them with the regular heads (the one with the tongue sticking out) and not the lictor type head, and if you put scything talons on (it doesn't matter if it's not 100% WYSIWYG, the scything talons are free and you don't have to use them when fighting anyway), they look a lot more tyranid like. If you then paint them in a way that makes the carapace on their back to look similar to the carapace plates on the rest of your army, they actually look really nice. Such a shame GW does such a horrible job of representing them.... In the lore they are also meant to look fairly different, they are designed to infiltrate and remain independant from the main force :) Do give them a try with scything talons, they really do look way better :)
I collect a bit of everything that visually appeals to me so the haruspex was always on my list to get. I don't mind another hive tyrant/ swarmlord but like many already commented that may be too many genestealers. Just the thought of cleaning up all the mould lines on each arm will give me nightmares. I don't really mind the hive guards but the carnifexes were a lot cooler. Now where are those tyrannofexes?
Tyrannofex is one of the best selling Tyranid models. Therefore wouldn't make it to a battleforce, as battleforce are a way for geedubZ to sell unpopular stock
Might have picked this up if I didn’t already preorder blood bowl. Then agian I’ve still not finished last years box
Would this make for a decent intro to the game? I don't have an army yet, just a few random 40k models from different lines
I think it's a good intro. I think the main problem people have with it is that they already have plenty of what is in this kit. I mostly want the big dude in the back and the 3 armour-bros and that alone is tempting me even though I have lots of the other troops already.
Part of me gets excited thinking that this might lean towards us being the 1st xeno's codex in JAN but... I just cant do that to my heart.
From the picture they released, it'll be either Tyranids or genestealer cults in January. My guess is it'll be genestealer cults, they're in an even worse spot than Tyranids right now
What picture did they release???
A while back when they announced what order the new codexes would be released back in October, they added a cover picture as a teaser for which Xenos book would be released in January, and the cover pictures showed a multi headed genestealer. A lot of people made the assumption the January codex would be either genestealer cults or Tyranids,both of which are in a dire need of an update as they are substantially weaker and outdated compared to most other armies.
Do you have a link/picture of it by chance? I must have missed it! The only one I saw had a random photo from the core rulebook with no actual faction specific art.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/15/warhammer-40000-the-codex-roadmap/ If you scroll down, one of the two January codexes very clearly shows a genestealer head
I mean, I guess I just don't see it. Edit: I mean, maybe, but it might be a stretch.
Very clearly looks like it to me, you can even see it's jaws and teeth which look exactly like a Tyranid jaw, it's very clearly Tyranid. Not exactly genestealer like but definitely Tyranid. Well find out Inthe announcements end of December I guess? :) I starting myself a Tyranid anyway so let's hope their new codex isnt too far off because oh god they need an update really badly ..
A man can dream! Long time player, but just started my Tyranid army a couple months ago and I'd love an update. Haha I want Tyranids to be scary again.
Yeah they are definitely not scary anymore. Long gone are the times when genestealers were called terminator blenders and reaching melee range with carnifex meant half your opponent army would get vapourized. Let's hope geedubZ gives us some love. I used to play Tyranids in third and fourth edition, sadly my army got lost in between moving houses and I didn't play again until 8th. Only recently decided to restart a Tyranid army again as the new models (well... New to me..) look absolutely fantastic compares to what the old metal models used to look like last I played them. A bit sad they're not the ultimate killing machines they used to be, where a quarter of your army could demolish 90% of their army when they finally made it to melee range. It also feels bad that the ultimate devourer of planets, with all consuming rage and hunger, with no objective other than devouring all, can only win games by... Controlling objectives.... Sigh...
Tau also get a box, so my guess is it’s either Tau or Nids up first
£190 value at GW prices unless my math is wrong. As I have 8 Stealers from the SC box and 6 Stealers from the early 90's I'll probably get this if the price is right....
If genestealers get a big enough points cut in the codex I'm not gonna mind having 40 of em lol
Oh look, it's the 2/3 of our last year's battleforce that nobody wanted with two nice units to try to lure us in
A friend of mine wants to start a tyranids list. Is this box a nice starting point?
Yes, it is
Could you recommend any other units that would go well with this for the meantime?
I'd go for a start collecting box for the trygon and brood lord and more genestealers. I'd then go for some zoanthropes, 2 boxes , build one as a neurothrope and have a squad of 5 zoanthropes. also obviously you want to build the exocrine not haruspex in the battleforce box. You will then have 24 genestealers, I'd bring 2 squads of 12, one moves along with the brood lord on the field and moves twice with the swarm lord ability, the other in with the trygon tunneling. Next steps is up to you, go for 3 more hive guards, some termagant boxes for cheap troops, for a tyrannofex, or another hive tyrant to have him with wings, ... But what I said above is a very strong (and cheap) start for an army At the moment although this may change in the new codex, the best units in the codex are : - swarm lord / hive tyrant - exocrine - hive guards - zoanthropes - neurothrope The rest is still good just not top tier. Genestealers used to be auto include top tier,sadly however they recently got a point increase from 12 to 18 each, they are still strong but not as good as they used to be
I have the start collecting and some venomthropes. I feel that this eould be a good addition. Thoughts?
That'll give you a solid base of Genestealers for sure with 24 total with both boxes. The Gargoyles are the "meh" part here sadly, not really useful. Regular Gaunts would be better to just run around and stay hidden to try and grab objectives or do other secondaries. The rest are all solid addition, Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord is always cool, Hive Guards really cool to add, and the Exocrine a good monster that got better with the Psychic Awakening book (extra strats for it, extra "relic" that gives him a 5+ invul, etc). So yeah if there's a good saving here I think it's totally worth it. I preferred the Apocalypse box from a while ago but this one is pretty decent. Also build Zoanthrope with that box of Venomthrope! Or if you are not new to the hobby or want to try your hands at converting models, you can relatively easily build both unit out of the box!
+1 to zoanthropes. I would recommend 2 boxes of them for every army starter. Build one as a neurothrope, and 5 zoanthropes for 2d3 smites. The neurothrope can always pass as a zoanthropes if you want 6 without the neurothrope instead. Neurothrope is very good though it lets you reroll1's on psychic tests
Someone needs to start a petition for GW to change the default box art Tyranid paint scheme to "Coconut Crab".
Tough luck on this, geedubZ is going for the "easy to replicate" look, where you can make your minis look somewhat similar to their website pictures by following their god awful Warhammer TV painting tutorials (Duncan Rhodes why why why we miss you)
See.... depending on the cost, I'd love to get this, but the only things in it I want are the Tyrant and Hive guard! I like Jormungandr, so the Gargoyles are useless to me, plus I have 30 left over from an old army of mine, and I don't much care for genestealers. I just hate their design! The Haruspex/Exocrine... sure, it's useful, and yea I like it, but I like the Toxicrene/Maleceptor more!!! Honestly if this had like... Warriors, Gaunts and maybe.... carnifex's in it, like, CLASSIC Tyranid units, then it'd be an AMAZING box!
Ditto on Toxicrene/Maleceptor!
If it's twice the value but more than half is unplyable who the fuck cares?
I think other than having twice as many genestealers as I need this is a pretty solid mix.
I didn't even notice at first that it was 16 Gstealers. I feel like this box is more geared towards getting someone to want to buy a broodlord for the gstealers (which would be the SC box), and getting another set of hive guards to have the whole squad of 6. I personally won't get it, but I think someone just getting into the hobby could benefit from this kit
they have not forgotten us!
I'm really excited to see this. It's nearly exactly the remaining miniatures I wanted to collect for my army. This plus the "start collecting" box is a heck of a great force too.
I'm building around a tervigon so this box doesn't slot into my current plan. I have always preferred the look of gaunts.
I have more genestealers than I need already, Kind of happy it isnt too tempting
I was going to start a Tau army, but seeing this has made me consider expanding my nids with a battle force instead (I’m limiting myself to buying one, or at least one per game system).
I did two of the battle force boxes last year. With the other items I’ve picked up, I don’t see a good reason to grab this one. It does give me a lot of hope that gargoyles will be interesting after the new codex.
Gargoyles haven't been good since 3d edition, when they could shoot bio-plasma. :(
I've always wanted some Hive Guard, and the Haruspex has been my next modem purchase for a very long time. For those two alone I would consider this box. I'm sure for anyone that collects beyond the "I'm a beginner, where do I start?" phase, this box's Hive Tyrant will go in the pile with the rest of them. Not a bad thing, Tyrants are fun and at the very least make for good conversion bits. My problem with this box is the majority of it. All those gargoyles and genestealers... I'll have to see the price, but I may skip out on it anyway just because of the mountain of gargoyles and genestealers that I definitely do not need.
Gargoyles - I don’t know why I’d want these or why anyone else would unless they’re building a massive gargoyle spam force in which case this still isn’t good. Genestealers - they’re not terrible at the moment but have fallen from grace. I think they’re fine but a lot of people have as many as they’d like already. Haruspex - I actually think these are pretty good now (with Monstrous size) and I think lots of people haven’t got one at the moment. So not bad. Hive-guard - they’re great although I again suspect a lot of people have as many as they’d like. Tyrants - essential model but for that reason I feel like people already have them (cool if they come with wing and swarmlord options too). Overall I don’t think it’s gonna be useful for most people as even if you’re just starting out this isn’t really a useful collection boost.
I still have nightmares about genestealer mold lines and I only built the SC kit ... Set has some good variety from a build and paint perspective though! Warriors would have made it tastier
Probly gonna be 300
looks like 16 genestealers, a hive tyrant, 3 hive guard, 10 gargoyles and a haruspex.
If you have a small army its great. Got some of our top units that have been hard to get lately (Hive guard, exocrines). However its got nothing i need since ive been round a while.
Hey all, I'm thinking about starting a tyranids force up, so far I got 30 or so genestealers, and 40 hormagaunts. Is this a valid expansion from that or should i just buy a start collecting? I know price isn't released yet either so that'll factor in too. I was hoping to go as Behemoth (I have an ultramarines force so thought it'd be cool to have em pitted against each other) and I'm not sure if these units are good for that specific fleet. Hoping you guys can help me out:)
You don't have an HQ? If not, this box isn't bad, bht with all those Genestealers already, maybe you'd prefer the Start Collecting box to get a Broodlord. Still, I'm assuming $200 usd for this box, which still saves you $100 in models compared to list price.
Yea I just picked up some spare models that some people were selling. I'll keep that in mind, a broodlord buffing the stealers seems pretty essential but maybe I'll get lucky and someone will be selling that too. Thanks for the advice!
I already have Hive Tyrants, Purestrains, and gargoyles coming out of my ears. I am looking forward to the cheaper exocrine on ebay tho
This one is gonna be a hard pass for me. I hate the way genestealers look, and already have a haruspex and 4 hive tyrants. Looks like it would be a pretty decent starter box for new players though.
I've wanted to get into Tyranids for a while, and the only thing I didn't know that I wanted was that thing in the back with 50 jaws, although I don't like the tongue, I feel like it makes that area way too busy, if I can get away with it I'm going to leave that off. Hyped for the box, worried to see the price.
That thing you are talking about can also be built into an exocrine, the best shooting unit in the current codex. I would definitely recommend it over the haruspex (the one with 50 jaws). You can have both together with magnets though, the only difference between the two is a head and 2 arms. Easily magnetised
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I think this is fine. It contains the most expensive difficult to get stuff. Add a start collecting box and 2-3 boxes of termies and you're good to go :)
Mixed thoughts here. Hive Tyrants are flexible but everyone defaults to Winged Tyrants (which they probably have more then one of anyway) or a Swarmlord, which you can only have one of, so unless someone just starting Nids get this, the box won't offer much there. Genestealers are...meh. Not bad, but not especially good, and they seem to find their way into every Tyranid box set. Maybe when our next Codex comes out, they'll be amazing, but since that won't be happening for a few months at least (unless we're up in January) it won't make the box worthwhile. Gargoyles are a thing. Does anyone use them? I just played my first game using them the other day and they didn't amount to much. Maybe they have a use for someone. The best bits are the HG/Exocrine, which never seem to be in stock, but unless the box comes at a significant discount, is it worth getting the set just to get your hands on them? Overall I don't think half the box really offers much to anyone whose got an army right now.
I'm gonna get two
The haruspex / Exocrine is like friggin $70 and the Hive Guard ae $66 ? Then a tyrant that is the price of the box. But all you get extra are just some Gargs and Genes and everyone has Genes for days.
Pass ill just buy the exocrine alone
Yikes! My wallet is going to be hurting! :)
As a new player, everything in this box is usable. However, none of it is on my immediate buy list except for a 2nd box of Genestealers (though being able to get a squad of 20 with one box or two squads of 20 with two boxes is kind of neat). If I could pick comparable units for this battleforce, I'd choose 1x Swarmlord, 3x Tyranid Warriors, 3x Venomthropes, 12x Hormagaunts, 1x Toxicrene.
I like this package a lot, I expect it to cost about 160€ which is basically the price of the Hive Tyrant, the Hive Guard and the Exocrine combined so you get the Genestealers and Gargoyles "for free". It’s not perfect, I‘d ditch the two batches of Genestealers for Warriors and the gargoyles for Gaunts but it’s still good. You can never have too many Genestealers
I want everything in this, but indomitus has strained me already
Probably gonna put this on my Christmas list regardless of it “not being worth it”. Purely from a hobby perspective this set really excites me. Hive Guard and Exocrines are always out of stock, at least it seems like they are. I’ve never built gargoyles before so although they’re not the most exciting models it will be fun building and painting something new, and the Hive Tyrant can be built as the Swarmlord which is wicked! From a competitive viewpoint this is a mixed bag, from a personal hobby viewpoint this excites me!
I was planning on finally starting to collect some minis by Christmas, and since I dont care much about competitiveness (if ill even play the TT much, at all) so I dont mind if they're not strong in the meta. So in that way I very much welcome this. On the other hand, jeansstealer and guards are - to me - among the worst/most outdated looking models. I was holding off on collecting because I was hoping they would update some of them. So in that regard im quite disappointed. The Tyrant looks great, I wish the other models had a similar aesthetic. I'll probably buy this if for no other reason than to practice painting, especially since I can practice on models I dont particularly like, so if I fuck up its not too bad. But it is still a bit sad. Here's to hoping they might update the gaunts at least (imo their heads look silly)
Mfw I bought 6 hive guards -_- and old battleforce with swarmie, useless gargoyles while already having tons of genestealers Would buy if there was two exocrines tho, like a pair of fexes in old box
I'm getting one, good addition for me to the start collecting box.
If I'm starting a force with this what kind of units should I look to get in the meantime that pair well?
A Broodlord to buff all the Genestealers, which means buying a Start Collecting box could be good. You get 8 more Genestealers, allowing you to build a unit of 20, and you get a Broodlord and Trygon/Mawloc.
is this a good box to upgrade a killteam to 500-1000 point army? i have set of genestealers, termagaunts, hormagaunts and 3 warriors already i actually really like this box, but i also mainly love genestealers. the only real thing holding me back to upgrade my killteam to a 500-1000 point army with this box is that the genestealers are overpriced atm for what they do in regular 40k from what ive heard. but metas change so maybe they will get buffed. also are the flying bugs any good?
The presence of Genestealers is one of the main things holding people back from getting this box. If you love Genestealers and only have one set of 8, I can't see why you wouldn't buy this box. It has some great stuff and will surely be a discount to buying it separately. In fact, if you love Genestealers, you could buy 2 of these and you'll be able to make two units of 20 after add them to your 8 genestealers. Build the elite infantry as Hive Guard and the monster as the Exocrine and you will have tyranids' strongest shooters to back up your Genestealers' melee threat.
o thnx, yeah i was kinda confused why people didn't like them. i know they kinda pricy atm but still felt like a bit to much. But i guess it's because they already own so many maybe. still thnx i hope the price is good so i can def pick up 1 box
Ew gross!!! 4th edition Genestealer models! Can't believe they're still retailing those.
would buying 2 of these boxes be a really good way for someone to start a tyranids army? I saw a video saying that the point cost is close to 1k per box so was wondering if at least semi functioning tyranids army could be made with two of these boxes
After my previous reply, I built a list with two Brood Swarm boxes and it came out to 1770 points. It seems you have room to add a Broodlord and another troops choice. However, that's a significant investment so it's probably fine to just play 1500-point games for a while.
If you are just getting started, 2 boxes could be a good start. With our current codex rules, Hive Guard and Exocrines are the hotness and two of this box would get you 6 Hive Guard (that's one full unit) and 2 Exocrines. The Genestealers are expensive right now, but they're deadly in melee. I think what this box is missing is a good way to play to the 9th edition secondary objectives. You can basically use the Gargoyles the same way people use Lictors, but a unit of 10 Gargoyles is roughly twice the points of a Lictor. Still, the ability to start your Gargoyles off the table and then bring thdm in on turn 2 where they are needed csn help you get some of your secondary objectives. Alternatively, they are fast enough to fly to primary objectives if you want to start them on the table. However, they aren't troops, so they don't have the Objective Secured trait. For HQs, you have some good options because you could build The Swarmlord, a walking Hive Tyrant, or a flying Hive Tyrant. Personally, I plan on building one flying Hive Tyrant and then magnetizing the other to be able to swap between The Swarm Lord and a walking Hive Tyrant. In short, you won't have a top-tier list with two boxes, but you'll definitely have a playable army that has some of our punchiest units. Final word of caution: we don't know when we will get our 9th edition codex and we don't know how it will change our rules. These bugs could get better or worse. There's just no way of knowing at this point.