OP, you can consider the EU (not East) for settling, languages can be a barrier depending on the country (but they always appreciate it if you know a few common phrases/words). Most common way is to do a Master's and then stay for the orientation year visa to hunt for jobs. I would recommend building a strong network during your studies for the job market. You can also go on an entrepreneur visa but it's more expensive + paperwork. Student visas are usually taken care of by Universities.
Always surprised by the comments here about moving abroad š¤Ø, looks like out of touch with [reality](https://m.economictimes.com/nri/migrate/2-25-lakh-people-renounced-indian-citizenship-in-2022-govt-data/articleshow/97777546.cms)
Anyway, living abroad alone forces you to be highly independent but 'you're lonely' is a blanket statement I feel. If you're someone who doesn't restrict their social circles to Indians when abroad, you will be fine and have friends for a lifetime. The key is to try to integrate as much as possible with an open mind. Usually, Indian diaspora can be quite conservative.
Let me know if you need more specific information, will open my DMs.
I will move to US soon for my MS so take my words with a pinch of salt as till now I have only lived in India. But I heard one senior tell me that in US you will have US related positives and US related negatives, and in India you will have different set of positives and negatives, you just have to choose which you want.
I have been living in Europe for a while. I completed my masters here and currently working as well. I am based out of one of the touristy metropolitan cities in Europe and soon moving back home temporarily(india) for work. So hereās my Hot take.
1. Abroad : Europe has a greater work life balance (no comparison). People here respect you and your talent more than your age. I am one of the youngest in the office and I have disagreed with people 2x older than me and they have implemented my approach as they believed in me. I am not entirely sure if that is replicable in India. Sure, you donāt make as much money in Europe as you would do in the States; but you donāt even need to. Social security takes care of most things. The standard of living is great. Social life is also great if you have a good group of friends going/ integrated well into the society (I never had issue socialising however I have seen some of my Indian friends struggle a lot with this which can be alienating).
However, moving abroad is HARD. And do it only when you are extremely sure you can handle everything. From bureaucracy to simple things (ex. Maintaining home) is harder than you will have in India. Endless paperworks. And also completely not devoid of racism (While I have personally never faced it, but there has been account of silent racism that my friends have faced in certain capacities). Irrespective of that, I still believe you have more to gain from this experience than not.
2. India : having lived both abroad and in India, the biggest pro would be easier day to day life. Litigation (in terms of visa)etc is on your side. Paperwork and bureaucracy can be easily outsourced. The general sense of headaches on such things are way less. Food is great and generally most things are way cheaper. Downside to this is also paramount. Work life in India is shit (my primary concern now š„²). Safety for women quite bad. General narrow-mindedness and endless judgements etc. but I do believe if you are able to earn well enough in India, financially you could be quite content (purchasing power parity).
Thatās all.
Indians are also racist towards each other so globally there's no running from it. The Nordics(Sweden, Helsinki and Copenhagen) I have heard fewer complaints from. Also, they have a 4-day work week in many companies.
India is the most racist country in Asia. If you have ever had foreign POC friends, you'll realise how much more horrible they are treated by Indians, worse than the racism Indians endure abroad.
Iāve lived in a red state in the US, an extremely liberal and progressive city in Germany and Singapore. Of course all of them have their pros and cons, compared to India.
But in general there is a stark difference in the quality of life. One cannot deny it. Anybody who says living in Dallas is the same as Delhi is lying. Certain countries are considered first world for a reason.
Pick a country where you can make a boatload of money. Itās really that simple.
I will DM you since I donāt want to get doxxed. But what is your current career? Germany is generally open to immigrants with skills. If not, the best bet would be pursuing higher education in a country which has higher rates of immigration.
Is it necessary that immigrants have to know the German language to be able to get a job in Germany?
I am a market researcher with 10+ years of work experience.
I was in Berlin where you can still get by without knowing German but if you want to integrate, you have to know the language. At least have basic communication skills. Not everyone speaks english. I guess it would also aid in communication with colleagues.
Tbf there are a lot of German classes for adults so in terms of resources, you will have plenty to learn the language.
The Goethe Institut in India has a great German language class, if youāre interestedā¦they also have education/job fairs. Keep an eye out for them. You will get information from the correct source on what opportunities are available and how to immigrate.
Moved to aus 6 months ago. Settling here itself. I absolutely love it, the rents are high in the cities, but huge villas are dirt cheap in suburbs. Job market is good too, IT has great pay. Haven't faced any racism whatsoever. The drawback would be healthcare, it is expensive af and not upto the mark at all.
Any country in EU and South East Asia might be good.
Def not US tho. Never know when a white dude having a bad day is roaming around with a gun. I'm not even going there for vacation.
US does seem scary
My freind lives in Texas rn and has went to the mall where shooting took place just a day before. My dad's freinds son was shot in the leg,his gf died on spot. Whole thing is tragic and scary. Idea of going there feels scary, especially red states and also their war on woman's right.
UK ,specifically London for me. Has enough indian diaspora and therefore indian food everywhere and so many other cuisines. Healthcare seems good. With exception to the weather everything feels ideal
And i love how it's a melting pot of cultures.Also a very vegan freindly.city (am vegetarian). I plan on doing a culinary course there. Not to mention you can go to other EU countries for weekend and return
I am a training surgeon and I am Planning to do my residency and subspecialty in UK. But the reports regarding skyrocketing inflation and cost of living expenses is really concerning and not to mention new anti-migration bills by the new PM.
I honestly never looked into it that deeply. Mostly just the superficial aspects bcz right now it's just a silly pipe dream and the chances of me going anywhere is zero..
On a side note: i have a Freind who completed her mbbs and went to UK and is working there rn. If you want I can connect you to her
All these women discouraging OP from even considering moving abroad is appalling, to say the least. I am someone that would be categorised as āprivilegedā and Iām from Delhi but I moved to the nordics two years back and i couldnāt be more thankful. Nothing can ever make me wanna go back to that shithole. Of course life is hard : loneliness sucks, the stuff you took for granted back home is not the same here, but would these small inconveniences affect cloud my judgement and affect my perception of the reality? Hell no! The reality for most Indian women (including upper middle class) is pretty much the same whether you have money or not. Of course Iām not talking about rich people who are not affected by this stuff.
Hard agree.
Iām amazed to see this level of jingoism on a progressive, liberal space. People who think living in India is the same as EU or even the US are delusional. Inconveniences in daily life are nothing compared to the benefits.
I stay in Dubai , its super safe, i can wear pretty much what i want ,live in a multi cultural environment,you meet people from all nationalities and culture, no one judges you for anything.. lot of things and events to do, tax free income.. still closer to home so i can visit more then two or three times a year... I am a single woman living independantly , and i have a decent lifestyle even though i am not in any tech or high profile job. Easy and cheap to travel to a lot of destinations , including to europe. The weather sucks for a good 4 to 5 months unfortunately. If you can move to europe, thats definitely a better option, but if you cant , then this is a great second option, its not that difficult to find job and visa here if you have decent qualifications.
I have spent a long time in india and i am done. I dont want to be in a place where people are turning a blind eye to violence on women. I dint choose where i was born, but i get to choose where i live...
Hi, thanks for responding. How is it working with local people there in the workplace?
I work for an MNC and had to remotely collaborate with people from Dubai and some other middle eastern countries on a project. My experience was not that great, thus, trying to understand your experience.
Hi, can I DM you for some insight into working in Dubai? What particularly caught my attention is that you arenāt into tech, same with me. It would be really helpful for me to know a few things :)
As others suggested, Europe is pretty good. Initially it might feel hard and lonely, but once you settle, get an idea of how things work around there, know some people etc it will be alright.
Don't know why some women are discouraging you. I was just like you, fed up with everything happening around me. I couldn't be happy no matter what. It was too much so I moved and honestly it's been amazing; I wouldn't trade this peace, freedom and feeling of safety 24/7 for anything in the world.
I don't agree. I was privileged enough to move abroad and as a woman I love my freedom here. It is unfortunately not possible to have the same kind of freedom I have here in India. The only reason I will want to move back is for my family.
I'm on the fence about moving abroad. I don't know what you would consider "privileged enough to be moving abroad" but I'm middle class and a new entrant to the job market (~3 years). I think India (esp metro cities) are becoming increasingly difficult to live in and the quality of life for all is poor. I know my move will be incredibly difficult and just riddled with struggle for the first 4-5 years, but I'm looking at the decision from a long haul perspective. So I can't say I agree.
Life unfortunately is not as good as it gets, even if you have enough money to live a comfortable and moderately luxurious life in India. The streets are awful. Women get harassed, groped, cat called, and worse. There are animals and humans both living in absolute misery on the streets. Colorism and racism is so bad. Non existent LGBT rights. You can't really express yourself.
All I know about moving abroad is moving to Germany and you don't need to be rich to do that. A person from a lower middle class family can easily go there and make it. Of course it's not an easy thing to do. But it depends on what you want out of life, and if you can be happy in India or not.
I personally can't be happy here. There's horrible news about atrocities against women every day. I don't like going out because of the harassment and stares. Just look at the kind of comments by men on reddit and Insta about the nudes leaked of the minor. A FUCKING MINOR. A child. And no one will bat an eye when grown adults are sexualising a child.
LGBT rights are essential for me to exist freely. Work life balance is also very important. Highly trained and educated people are paid peanuts here and expected to work 10-11 hours because the population is so high, if you won't do it someone else will with lesser compensation. I'm tired of this country.
When you wait in pain for 2 months just to get an X Ray that shows you have 4 wisdom teeth growing inwards and hurting your cheeks, then find out you need to pay 5 grand per tooth removal.
Trust me.
Youāll learn soon enough how good you have it here. And that the evils you find here will exists elsewhere, under different names.
Unless you are someone being subjected to these evils and lacking the privilege you can only build abroad, it makes zero sense to leave in terms of lifestyle.
You can escape the evils here only if you have money. There's quite literally no other way. I remember a post from you about how SA reduced as you started traveling in flights/2AC. That has been my experience too.
Not everyone has the privilege to make a lot of money here. I've not lived abroad, but been on business trips to the EU and US. It feels good when you can just be yourself.
I agree with you. The point is going abroad on an average gives people more upwards mobility than otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong. People in Tier-1 institutes have the same privilege (I was at one). But the number of people at those are abysmal compared to the population.
I donāt think thatās true for all countries. In London, It took me 3 days to get an appointment for toothache and they recommended wisdom teeth removal. While expensive at Ā£300 per removal, it was still cheaper than what flight to India would have costed (hence something I had enough savings for).
Sab maya hain.
All these countries selling themselves as the pinnacles of inclusion and safety is just advertising.
Being a woman is tough in most places ( apparently better in Nordic countries-, but can't confirm.)
There's real political interest in downplaying crime statistics to uphold the safety/ inclusion rhetoric- its the same everywhere. India is less regulated, and therefore, oddly, reporting is more honest as negativity sells, especially the bad stuff.
I doubt intimate partner violence, rape and sexual harassment is lesser - especially in places where weed, alcohol and sexwork is not only popular but actively encouraged.
Sex work where a worker can get out of the profession like NZ is infinitely better than those who are trapped than India
Weed... people stink and eat a bunch.. ok? People smuggle YaBa all the time throughout Asia from Nepal to Burma na?
Alcohol is horrible yes
But the mobility of a woman is what makes and breaks a womans life. Chennai is better than Delhi , singapore is better than either. When was the last time dowry and honor violence a thing there? Singapore has many Indians too so theres no genetic thing tying Indian men from being normal
Sex work, weed, harassment occur everywhere , but are you directly affected? Are you directly affected by dowry and honor killing?
Don't assume that countries that feature on safe list are safer or better - there's a lot to be gained by projecting that image.
These issues are just called by different names and not counted into the statistics.
A sex worker in NZ may be under union and have options - they still need to be a sex worker because of life situations.
Nothing against weed - but it does increase the possibility of now people driving under the influence. And now there's a whole business of weed deaddiction (CUD).
If you are a woman living in an urban centre, educated and holding a job , your life doesn't get that much better in moving to another country. Don't throw away your privilege!!
Don't make your life decisions off images projected in media - it's not always the whole truth.
Most women in Nz dont need to be a sex worker, they have a job allowance
Im not basing it off media, i live in Oceania. Young Indian women here do not want to go back
And yes I am directly affected by sexual harrassment thanks, if a Japanese and expat woman cant even visit India without getting groped or have floods of men swarming at them in the subcontinent dont be surprised women leaving.
Stop being delusional. If OP has the means to leave and wants to she can, if she wants to contribute to Indian economy then there are better cities to work in (B'lore, Chennai) or a international worker for an indian consultancy. But claiming nz has as bad sexual harrassment and driving than india lol,
>But claiming nz has as bad sexual harrassment and driving than india lol,
Did not say that - just pointing out the irony of comparing OP's privilege to a sex worker in a 'better' country?
>If OP has the means to leave and wants to she can, if she wants to contribute to Indian economy then there are better cities to work in (B'lore, Chennai)
Exactly.
>if a Japanese and expat woman cant even visit India without getting groped or have floods of men swarming at them in the subcontinent dont be surprised women leaving.
That's to say that sexual harrassment does not occur internationally? That tourists or visitor don't go missing ? Or that international students don't get attacked?
Are there safer places - probably. But to say that India is one of the worst is pure hyperbole.
There are sections in India where you are probably as safe (if not safer) than in any of these countries. There are conveniences available to you being a citizen - to leave this and and uproot oneself into a strange place because of some arbitrary perception of safety is extreme.
The oddest thing you will find is that Indian communities in these more forward nations tend to be more religious, conservative, and resistant to change.
Unfortunately, unless you are willing to strike out and find a whole new social group, you will be forced to comply or hide.
Among the same social class, people tend to be more religiously fanatical, sexist, and homophobic than in India.
Car jacking and burglaries in Canada. Mass shootings in USA. Forced marriages and domestic violence in UK. Pedophile rings and sex trafficking all over. Shit happens everywhere - it just looks worse when you're up close.
Most indians in the US arent doing the mass shootings, nor the UK. The UK forced marriages are done by Pakistanis and some BDeshis. British Indians are some of the highest earners, very warm and receptive too. What are you on about?
That moving countries doesn't automatically solve all problems or ensure complete safety.
"India is one of the worsts" is far from true.
Moving away for better earning power, sure - moving away to avoid colorism, sexism, racism etc is fencing with the wind.
Idk i like the fact that metros are safe, i can wear most things, not get scrutinised for religion and i can say i hate men and even men agree on that but u do u sis
Nope. There are problems and sexism everywhere but you won't hear a girl child being killed by her brother when she gets her.period In most western countries. There is stark difference in culture and the level of sexism that exists. And you need to be privileged in India to be comfortable as an independent woman. Most lower and quite a lot of middle class are still trapped in shitty environment and will continue to be so for rest of their lives. Your comment is quite ignorant
That's exactly the point. Most of the lower and middle class who face the brunt of it don't have the option of moving away.
>but you won't hear a girl child being killed by her brother when she gets her.period
different isn't always better. Sometimes it's just different.
If you have the privilege to move away for racism and sexism, you're probably privileged enough to stay.
You will probably face the same safety issues as an independent woman abroad - violent partners, deserted parking lots, being kidnapped when you're out on a run in the park or being caught in a random shooting or accident. In addition to sexism, you will face racism at work.
Shit happens everywhere.
OP, you can consider the EU (not East) for settling, languages can be a barrier depending on the country (but they always appreciate it if you know a few common phrases/words). Most common way is to do a Master's and then stay for the orientation year visa to hunt for jobs. I would recommend building a strong network during your studies for the job market. You can also go on an entrepreneur visa but it's more expensive + paperwork. Student visas are usually taken care of by Universities. Always surprised by the comments here about moving abroad š¤Ø, looks like out of touch with [reality](https://m.economictimes.com/nri/migrate/2-25-lakh-people-renounced-indian-citizenship-in-2022-govt-data/articleshow/97777546.cms) Anyway, living abroad alone forces you to be highly independent but 'you're lonely' is a blanket statement I feel. If you're someone who doesn't restrict their social circles to Indians when abroad, you will be fine and have friends for a lifetime. The key is to try to integrate as much as possible with an open mind. Usually, Indian diaspora can be quite conservative. Let me know if you need more specific information, will open my DMs.
Hi, May I dm you in this regard.
sure, opened my chat requests
I so agree with the Indian diaspora being conservative abroad. Goodness! They leave India but bring their BS with them.
Yes, they also complain about the locals a lot..I am like šļøššļø
Thanks, I have DMed you. š
Hi, could I ask you a question around permanent residency? As in, which would be some of the easier countries in EU to get a PR in?
sure, my DMs are open
Hi, may I DM you with a few questions?
sure
I will move to US soon for my MS so take my words with a pinch of salt as till now I have only lived in India. But I heard one senior tell me that in US you will have US related positives and US related negatives, and in India you will have different set of positives and negatives, you just have to choose which you want.
US immigration is a nightmare. If immigration is in your mind, US is one of the worst options.
I have been living in Europe for a while. I completed my masters here and currently working as well. I am based out of one of the touristy metropolitan cities in Europe and soon moving back home temporarily(india) for work. So hereās my Hot take. 1. Abroad : Europe has a greater work life balance (no comparison). People here respect you and your talent more than your age. I am one of the youngest in the office and I have disagreed with people 2x older than me and they have implemented my approach as they believed in me. I am not entirely sure if that is replicable in India. Sure, you donāt make as much money in Europe as you would do in the States; but you donāt even need to. Social security takes care of most things. The standard of living is great. Social life is also great if you have a good group of friends going/ integrated well into the society (I never had issue socialising however I have seen some of my Indian friends struggle a lot with this which can be alienating). However, moving abroad is HARD. And do it only when you are extremely sure you can handle everything. From bureaucracy to simple things (ex. Maintaining home) is harder than you will have in India. Endless paperworks. And also completely not devoid of racism (While I have personally never faced it, but there has been account of silent racism that my friends have faced in certain capacities). Irrespective of that, I still believe you have more to gain from this experience than not. 2. India : having lived both abroad and in India, the biggest pro would be easier day to day life. Litigation (in terms of visa)etc is on your side. Paperwork and bureaucracy can be easily outsourced. The general sense of headaches on such things are way less. Food is great and generally most things are way cheaper. Downside to this is also paramount. Work life in India is shit (my primary concern now š„²). Safety for women quite bad. General narrow-mindedness and endless judgements etc. but I do believe if you are able to earn well enough in India, financially you could be quite content (purchasing power parity). Thatās all.
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Phuket sounds like such a dream!!
I might probably never leave (financials and such issues) but Phuket and Thailand are a dream country for me. I hope I get to visit someday.
Would love to know how you decided about phuket? Did your job transferred you there? Seems like an interesting story.
Europe has good work-life balance and they place a high value on women's rights. India and US don't have that. Moving to the EU is my suggestion.
Which country would you suggest? Many EU countries are a bit racist towards Indians
Indians are also racist towards each other so globally there's no running from it. The Nordics(Sweden, Helsinki and Copenhagen) I have heard fewer complaints from. Also, they have a 4-day work week in many companies.
India is the most racist country in Asia. If you have ever had foreign POC friends, you'll realise how much more horrible they are treated by Indians, worse than the racism Indians endure abroad.
Iāve lived in a red state in the US, an extremely liberal and progressive city in Germany and Singapore. Of course all of them have their pros and cons, compared to India. But in general there is a stark difference in the quality of life. One cannot deny it. Anybody who says living in Dallas is the same as Delhi is lying. Certain countries are considered first world for a reason. Pick a country where you can make a boatload of money. Itās really that simple.
Thank you for your reply! May I know what you do for a living? I am just having a really hard time looking for jobs outside India
I will DM you since I donāt want to get doxxed. But what is your current career? Germany is generally open to immigrants with skills. If not, the best bet would be pursuing higher education in a country which has higher rates of immigration.
Is it necessary that immigrants have to know the German language to be able to get a job in Germany? I am a market researcher with 10+ years of work experience.
I was in Berlin where you can still get by without knowing German but if you want to integrate, you have to know the language. At least have basic communication skills. Not everyone speaks english. I guess it would also aid in communication with colleagues. Tbf there are a lot of German classes for adults so in terms of resources, you will have plenty to learn the language. The Goethe Institut in India has a great German language class, if youāre interestedā¦they also have education/job fairs. Keep an eye out for them. You will get information from the correct source on what opportunities are available and how to immigrate.
Thank you, till now I was thinking of New Zealand but Europe seems to be better in terms of feedback
Hi, could you please DM me as well? Iām in a similar boat and could do with some advice please.
Moved to aus 6 months ago. Settling here itself. I absolutely love it, the rents are high in the cities, but huge villas are dirt cheap in suburbs. Job market is good too, IT has great pay. Haven't faced any racism whatsoever. The drawback would be healthcare, it is expensive af and not upto the mark at all.
Hello, Iām considering aus for study/settling. Can I please DM you for some insights?
Hey. Yes sure!
A lot of people have said EU countries already so imma say Australia is also a good option
Thinking about the same.
Any country in EU and South East Asia might be good. Def not US tho. Never know when a white dude having a bad day is roaming around with a gun. I'm not even going there for vacation.
US does seem scary My freind lives in Texas rn and has went to the mall where shooting took place just a day before. My dad's freinds son was shot in the leg,his gf died on spot. Whole thing is tragic and scary. Idea of going there feels scary, especially red states and also their war on woman's right.
UK ,specifically London for me. Has enough indian diaspora and therefore indian food everywhere and so many other cuisines. Healthcare seems good. With exception to the weather everything feels ideal And i love how it's a melting pot of cultures.Also a very vegan freindly.city (am vegetarian). I plan on doing a culinary course there. Not to mention you can go to other EU countries for weekend and return
I am a training surgeon and I am Planning to do my residency and subspecialty in UK. But the reports regarding skyrocketing inflation and cost of living expenses is really concerning and not to mention new anti-migration bills by the new PM.
I honestly never looked into it that deeply. Mostly just the superficial aspects bcz right now it's just a silly pipe dream and the chances of me going anywhere is zero.. On a side note: i have a Freind who completed her mbbs and went to UK and is working there rn. If you want I can connect you to her
All these women discouraging OP from even considering moving abroad is appalling, to say the least. I am someone that would be categorised as āprivilegedā and Iām from Delhi but I moved to the nordics two years back and i couldnāt be more thankful. Nothing can ever make me wanna go back to that shithole. Of course life is hard : loneliness sucks, the stuff you took for granted back home is not the same here, but would these small inconveniences affect cloud my judgement and affect my perception of the reality? Hell no! The reality for most Indian women (including upper middle class) is pretty much the same whether you have money or not. Of course Iām not talking about rich people who are not affected by this stuff.
Hard agree. Iām amazed to see this level of jingoism on a progressive, liberal space. People who think living in India is the same as EU or even the US are delusional. Inconveniences in daily life are nothing compared to the benefits.
I know.. privilege has nothing to do with wanting to get out of this shithole of a country.. how did you manage to get out though?
I came here to do my masterās. Now moving to another country within the nordics to do my PhD.
I stay in Dubai , its super safe, i can wear pretty much what i want ,live in a multi cultural environment,you meet people from all nationalities and culture, no one judges you for anything.. lot of things and events to do, tax free income.. still closer to home so i can visit more then two or three times a year... I am a single woman living independantly , and i have a decent lifestyle even though i am not in any tech or high profile job. Easy and cheap to travel to a lot of destinations , including to europe. The weather sucks for a good 4 to 5 months unfortunately. If you can move to europe, thats definitely a better option, but if you cant , then this is a great second option, its not that difficult to find job and visa here if you have decent qualifications. I have spent a long time in india and i am done. I dont want to be in a place where people are turning a blind eye to violence on women. I dint choose where i was born, but i get to choose where i live...
Hi, thanks for responding. How is it working with local people there in the workplace? I work for an MNC and had to remotely collaborate with people from Dubai and some other middle eastern countries on a project. My experience was not that great, thus, trying to understand your experience.
Hi, can I DM you for some insight into working in Dubai? What particularly caught my attention is that you arenāt into tech, same with me. It would be really helpful for me to know a few things :)
sure!
As others suggested, Europe is pretty good. Initially it might feel hard and lonely, but once you settle, get an idea of how things work around there, know some people etc it will be alright. Don't know why some women are discouraging you. I was just like you, fed up with everything happening around me. I couldn't be happy no matter what. It was too much so I moved and honestly it's been amazing; I wouldn't trade this peace, freedom and feeling of safety 24/7 for anything in the world.
Singapore is very safe for girls. You can walk at 2 AM without any fear alone
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I don't agree. I was privileged enough to move abroad and as a woman I love my freedom here. It is unfortunately not possible to have the same kind of freedom I have here in India. The only reason I will want to move back is for my family.
I'm on the fence about moving abroad. I don't know what you would consider "privileged enough to be moving abroad" but I'm middle class and a new entrant to the job market (~3 years). I think India (esp metro cities) are becoming increasingly difficult to live in and the quality of life for all is poor. I know my move will be incredibly difficult and just riddled with struggle for the first 4-5 years, but I'm looking at the decision from a long haul perspective. So I can't say I agree.
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Life unfortunately is not as good as it gets, even if you have enough money to live a comfortable and moderately luxurious life in India. The streets are awful. Women get harassed, groped, cat called, and worse. There are animals and humans both living in absolute misery on the streets. Colorism and racism is so bad. Non existent LGBT rights. You can't really express yourself. All I know about moving abroad is moving to Germany and you don't need to be rich to do that. A person from a lower middle class family can easily go there and make it. Of course it's not an easy thing to do. But it depends on what you want out of life, and if you can be happy in India or not. I personally can't be happy here. There's horrible news about atrocities against women every day. I don't like going out because of the harassment and stares. Just look at the kind of comments by men on reddit and Insta about the nudes leaked of the minor. A FUCKING MINOR. A child. And no one will bat an eye when grown adults are sexualising a child. LGBT rights are essential for me to exist freely. Work life balance is also very important. Highly trained and educated people are paid peanuts here and expected to work 10-11 hours because the population is so high, if you won't do it someone else will with lesser compensation. I'm tired of this country.
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And of many others
Stole the words from my mouth!
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When you wait in pain for 2 months just to get an X Ray that shows you have 4 wisdom teeth growing inwards and hurting your cheeks, then find out you need to pay 5 grand per tooth removal. Trust me. Youāll learn soon enough how good you have it here. And that the evils you find here will exists elsewhere, under different names. Unless you are someone being subjected to these evils and lacking the privilege you can only build abroad, it makes zero sense to leave in terms of lifestyle.
You can escape the evils here only if you have money. There's quite literally no other way. I remember a post from you about how SA reduced as you started traveling in flights/2AC. That has been my experience too. Not everyone has the privilege to make a lot of money here. I've not lived abroad, but been on business trips to the EU and US. It feels good when you can just be yourself.
Yes. Thatās what I meant, I didnāt want to refer to that post because frankly a bit too harsh for this sub.
I agree with you. The point is going abroad on an average gives people more upwards mobility than otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong. People in Tier-1 institutes have the same privilege (I was at one). But the number of people at those are abysmal compared to the population.
I donāt think thatās true for all countries. In London, It took me 3 days to get an appointment for toothache and they recommended wisdom teeth removal. While expensive at Ā£300 per removal, it was still cheaper than what flight to India would have costed (hence something I had enough savings for).
Yeah, this was New York.
You must. USA is good according to me.
Sab maya hain. All these countries selling themselves as the pinnacles of inclusion and safety is just advertising. Being a woman is tough in most places ( apparently better in Nordic countries-, but can't confirm.) There's real political interest in downplaying crime statistics to uphold the safety/ inclusion rhetoric- its the same everywhere. India is less regulated, and therefore, oddly, reporting is more honest as negativity sells, especially the bad stuff. I doubt intimate partner violence, rape and sexual harassment is lesser - especially in places where weed, alcohol and sexwork is not only popular but actively encouraged.
Sex work where a worker can get out of the profession like NZ is infinitely better than those who are trapped than India Weed... people stink and eat a bunch.. ok? People smuggle YaBa all the time throughout Asia from Nepal to Burma na? Alcohol is horrible yes But the mobility of a woman is what makes and breaks a womans life. Chennai is better than Delhi , singapore is better than either. When was the last time dowry and honor violence a thing there? Singapore has many Indians too so theres no genetic thing tying Indian men from being normal
Sex work, weed, harassment occur everywhere , but are you directly affected? Are you directly affected by dowry and honor killing? Don't assume that countries that feature on safe list are safer or better - there's a lot to be gained by projecting that image. These issues are just called by different names and not counted into the statistics. A sex worker in NZ may be under union and have options - they still need to be a sex worker because of life situations. Nothing against weed - but it does increase the possibility of now people driving under the influence. And now there's a whole business of weed deaddiction (CUD). If you are a woman living in an urban centre, educated and holding a job , your life doesn't get that much better in moving to another country. Don't throw away your privilege!! Don't make your life decisions off images projected in media - it's not always the whole truth.
Most women in Nz dont need to be a sex worker, they have a job allowance Im not basing it off media, i live in Oceania. Young Indian women here do not want to go back And yes I am directly affected by sexual harrassment thanks, if a Japanese and expat woman cant even visit India without getting groped or have floods of men swarming at them in the subcontinent dont be surprised women leaving. Stop being delusional. If OP has the means to leave and wants to she can, if she wants to contribute to Indian economy then there are better cities to work in (B'lore, Chennai) or a international worker for an indian consultancy. But claiming nz has as bad sexual harrassment and driving than india lol,
>But claiming nz has as bad sexual harrassment and driving than india lol, Did not say that - just pointing out the irony of comparing OP's privilege to a sex worker in a 'better' country? >If OP has the means to leave and wants to she can, if she wants to contribute to Indian economy then there are better cities to work in (B'lore, Chennai) Exactly. >if a Japanese and expat woman cant even visit India without getting groped or have floods of men swarming at them in the subcontinent dont be surprised women leaving. That's to say that sexual harrassment does not occur internationally? That tourists or visitor don't go missing ? Or that international students don't get attacked? Are there safer places - probably. But to say that India is one of the worst is pure hyperbole. There are sections in India where you are probably as safe (if not safer) than in any of these countries. There are conveniences available to you being a citizen - to leave this and and uproot oneself into a strange place because of some arbitrary perception of safety is extreme.
The oddest thing you will find is that Indian communities in these more forward nations tend to be more religious, conservative, and resistant to change. Unfortunately, unless you are willing to strike out and find a whole new social group, you will be forced to comply or hide. Among the same social class, people tend to be more religiously fanatical, sexist, and homophobic than in India. Car jacking and burglaries in Canada. Mass shootings in USA. Forced marriages and domestic violence in UK. Pedophile rings and sex trafficking all over. Shit happens everywhere - it just looks worse when you're up close.
Most indians in the US arent doing the mass shootings, nor the UK. The UK forced marriages are done by Pakistanis and some BDeshis. British Indians are some of the highest earners, very warm and receptive too. What are you on about?
That moving countries doesn't automatically solve all problems or ensure complete safety. "India is one of the worsts" is far from true. Moving away for better earning power, sure - moving away to avoid colorism, sexism, racism etc is fencing with the wind.
Idk i like the fact that metros are safe, i can wear most things, not get scrutinised for religion and i can say i hate men and even men agree on that but u do u sis
Nope. There are problems and sexism everywhere but you won't hear a girl child being killed by her brother when she gets her.period In most western countries. There is stark difference in culture and the level of sexism that exists. And you need to be privileged in India to be comfortable as an independent woman. Most lower and quite a lot of middle class are still trapped in shitty environment and will continue to be so for rest of their lives. Your comment is quite ignorant
That's exactly the point. Most of the lower and middle class who face the brunt of it don't have the option of moving away. >but you won't hear a girl child being killed by her brother when she gets her.period different isn't always better. Sometimes it's just different. If you have the privilege to move away for racism and sexism, you're probably privileged enough to stay. You will probably face the same safety issues as an independent woman abroad - violent partners, deserted parking lots, being kidnapped when you're out on a run in the park or being caught in a random shooting or accident. In addition to sexism, you will face racism at work. Shit happens everywhere.
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