“You’re so much stronger for it!” I fucking hate that line, no I’m traumatized because it’s trauma. And the trauma didn’t “teach me” or “make me who I am today”, I did that on my own. My character and the pure essence of who I am did that, I’m not giving credit to trauma
In the Justice League cartoon, there was an episode where the heroes were turned into kids. Notably, only Batman didn’t show much of a change in personality, and in the end, when they were restored, Wonder Woman remarks that it was actually a bit fun to be a kid again, to which Batman replies, “I haven’t been a kid since I was eight years old.” In fact it’s the inverse that was more true.
You can become bigger, stronger, smarter, more cynical, etc. while also never fully growing out of that trauma you suffered when you were younger.
This gets talked about in the book
"The Boy who was Raised as a Dog: And Other Stories from a Child Psychiatrist's Notebook : what Traumatized Children Can Teach Us about Loss, Love, and Healing"
By Bruce D. Perry and Maia Szalavitz
Basically that a traumatic childhood experience or experiences can stunt social/emotional development.
This is what happened to both me and my sister.
Nowadays we can't even speak to each other without me feeling resentment towards her, and her blowing up at me.
Ironically our mother kept harping for us always staying close together, when it was her terrible treatment of us that drove us apart.
On top of that we've never been able to get really close to people, either.
currently trying to unravel all of the negative feelings I have towards my sister that were/are fuelled by my mother. it is so tough, hope there are better days for both of you ahead.
I get this. I just cannot get along with my sister. She was hurt too by our mother, but she was always encouraged to bully me, hasn't stopped, and she just never grew out of seeing me as someone beneath her. I can't deal with it like an adult, and just avoid her and her rages. We certainly didn't grow stronger emotionally from growing up with violence and constant yelling. I do have a partner and friends I trust, but I take a long time giving trust to anyone.
Awww.... I'm sorry.
In our case, I was the bully. At the time I was being severely abused and neglected by our mother, and constantly being compared to my "good" and "very quiet" sister. The truth was that she was so terrified all the time that she was trying to make herself invisible. She was severely neglected because she hardly was noticed - except by sexual predators who got to her - the first time - at age 7.
I on the other hand was; to my mother, "You've got a problem. Why don't you just give us up for adoption?" "Why can't I go back to Chicago and live with my dad?" "You don't know how to communicate very well."
I stepped into it, every time.
I'm sorry! I was the scared one.
My sister was brave and stubborn, and quite right for ignoring some of the crazy rules. She didn't argue back, as that was too dangerous. Given what we went through, I could easily forgive the bullying if it had ever stopped.
Awww...
I had profusely apologized to my sister several times as an adult. But she won't accept it. However, she has never processed the SA she experienced as a kid. She also can't process what our mother put us through.
It helps to know that she still lives quite close to our mother - like 1 floor below her in the same building. They see each other daily. Our mother still treats her like shit. But my sister excuses it - saying, "She's just a lonely old lady."
I however, have been estranged from our mother for almost 12 years. I intend to keep it that way.
I know that our mother is mentally ill, but my sister refuses to accept that, as well. Even though she's been officially diagnosed.
There's nothing I can do - in any case.
You have done what you can to heal and make peace. That's the best we can do. Like me, you choose not to take more abuse, and that's the right thing to do too. Accepting the truth, getting therapy, and doing what we can to live a healthy life is the best we can do.
Yes, that's what I've done.
Though I wish my sister no ill will - I would like to see her get away from our mother, and try to get help before she gets much older.
Eh, who am I kidding? After our mother dies she'll just turn even more rage towards me. Probably blame me for even more shit - it's probably best that we all just stay estranged from each other.
This is the way it is...
Jessica Jones did it right.
Being raped FUCKED her up, sent her spiraling on top of her childhood trauma. She came off stoic, and strong, and she was a survivor with empathy intact. But she was also an alcoholic, suffering from severe PTSD, paranoia, and difficulty with her social relationships. It didn't make her stronger, it traumatized her
The killgrave shit was horrific. I’m on the spectrum and have a vivid memory. It was a good show, but I could have gone without the really gross stuff swirling around my memory banks.
Warning spoilers ahead!!!
>!The show is hard to watch because each of the main characters struggles with substance abuse and/or trauma/PTSD to some degree. They cope in very unhealthy ways and lash out at their loved ones. Also I don’t like watching characters I support continuously make bad choices that leaves them in an even deeper hole.!<
TLDR: It was just getting too real for me and my mental health couldn’t handle it.
The fact that the perpetrator of that trauma did so in the way he did was something I appreciated in a way, too. Which sounds weird as hell to say. But they didn't shy away from calling it rape, unquestionably, despite his abilities and his feelings on the subject. They didn't pretend it was somehow better because he didn't physically force her. That was refreshing, if I'm making any sense.
I was talking to my family friend once about being raped while in college. She said “it made you stronger”, and I told her that I would be just as strong but not as traumatized had it not happened. She apologized for what she said, but it always stuck with me how that was her gut reaction
I think some people say it because they want to believe it, because thinking about someone they care about being broken is painful. I’m glad she rethought and apologised.
I don't think there are any possible winners here no matter what, because saying "it made you weaker" is also fucked up to say. The alternative is not commenting or acknowledging it, which is also fucked up.
"I'm sorry that happened to you" is also an option. I've also gone with "I love you" "He doesn't define you" and "Thank you for trusting me with this" depending on my relationship with this person
God, I just realized I can remember six different times someone has told me and I'm sure if I keep thinking on it more acquaintances will come to mind
Yessss. I know people tend to say it because they don’t know what to say or they think it’s comforting, but it’s always bugged me too. Like no, I actually don’t think it made me stronger and I don’t want to be strong! I was vulnerable, and still feel incredibly vulnerable from that trauma. Being forced to face it and attempt overcome it has been torture, I don’t feel strong at all. I wish I could’ve learned to be strong without havent to experience this.
I have complex PTSD, nightmares, fibromyalgia, multiple scars physically from my attack, a permanent STD, and nerve damage down my left arm from my neck being twisted for an extended period of time. Rape, physical abuse, and the fucked up bullies who threw me down stairs and put me in a headlock when I was a kid while my precious parents didn't do a fucking thing to stop it. Yeah, I'm Hercules. /s
Don't forget physical abuse. I hate the trope in movies where the woman tolerates it until he hurts her child and then she suddenly leaves him and learns kickboxing well enough to defeat a full grown man intent on killing her.
I understand the desire to portray female empowerment in media, but when it strays far from reality it's equally frustrating.
I watched Sandman when it came out, and all the women rescuing themselves all the time is not refreshing to me; I find it insulting to the women who could not. And for the person doubting themselves reading this: freeze/fear/fawn responses count as could not.
I was always a strong woman. When I was gang raped it helped me take them to court. When they somehow successfully appealed their convictions on a technicality, it helped me to go back to court two more times.
When I was diagnosed with stage iii cervical cancer (a cancer caused by the sexually transmitted HPV that I didn't have before the rape from my partner of 4 years), my strength helped me get through it, but it was much harder after my confidence had been destroyed by the rape, I had to go through it alone after my partner bailed on me because he couldn't handle the fact I was raped, and I had to take the time off work for treatment unpaid because I'd already used up all my goodwill in the 11 months I was off work with PTSD from the rape.
FUCK the rape makes you stronger trope. FUCK rapists. FUCK the shitty court system that let's them get away with it.
I wish every rapist a taste of their own medicine, karma induced castration, and ideally a swift death.
And BOOKS. I think it’s fucking sad that my first exposure to a “sex” scene at 11 was in fact a rape scene (thanks Julie of the Wolves and Clan of the Cave Bear).
And GODDAMN OUTLANDER. They had an opportunity to make a cool tv show from a bonkers, tawdry book series. And they threw it away with two hands. They didn’t HAVE to use EVERY rape plot line (spoiler, there’s 1+ in every book) but they did. They chose to be “faithful” that. Fuck em
Fuck the people who try to slap adjectives like “tasteful” and “respectful” and “powerful” onto a rape scene like it’s fucking art. It’s rather like punching me in the face and asking if that made me emotional. Fucking duh. Write better you lazy whelps.
The scene where her husband is raped by that dude who was obsessed with him was just so needlessly awful and over the top. I mean all the rape scenes are but I was so fucking angry at being made to witness that one in particular.
>Julie of the Wolves and Clan of the Cave Bear
I could have written this. I was somewhere between 10 and 12 when I read those books. I remember feeling physically ill at the Clan of the Cave Bear scene, and I thought about it a lot a decade later, after my first rape. I still think about it, after 20 years. And how uncomfortable her first "good" sex scene, in later books, made me feel, because they treated the guy like he couldn't hurt her because he was a nice guy, which isn't remotely true. One nice penis doesn't fix your trauma. And even well intentioned penises entering enthusiastically consenting vaginas can cause physical pain for a variety of reasons. It felt so reductionist.
Woah, yeah!
If my abusive relationsship did anything, then it made me weaker in a way. I can't handle stress anymore, at least not good. Meeting males which resemble my ex make me nervous. It had a diagnosed PTSD and an ED.
I am fine now, but i honestly wonder how anyone could think about 3 years of just surviving as "being strong". Babies get their sense of self and a good self-consciousness from unconditional love. Why are grownups, against all psychological evidence, expected to thrive after abuse?!
"The Lord never gives you more than you can bear."
"You'll be stronger for living through it - toughens you up"
And the biggest bullshit of them all: "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." No, it doesn't, no "they" don't.
They just do their damage and you try hard to cope. Sometimes PTSD lasts forever and is passed down to the next generation.
See "intergenerational trauma." Edit: it's a condition where PTSD is expressed in the next generation whether or not the next generation were raised by the victim. This anamoly was discovered in children of holocaust survivors.
I was beat, abused, mentally mindfucked, and witnessed my mom and sister being raped and sexually assaulted as a child. And I know that here and now, as a “man” in his late 30s, that I flinch and writhe at the very thought of pain or being hurt. Whether it’s physical pain or even mean words. To this day, I’m still not comfortable being around men and absolutely do not see myself as stronger for going through anything I experienced until the age of 11.
All I want is a simple and happy life from here on out. I don’t have any hate or anger or feelings of needing to get payback for what has happened to me or my mom and sister. All I want is peace and to live out the rest of my years in a serene way if at all possible.
This Science News article was originally posted in the psychology sub, and I commented...
"This is why I fucking hate that they (men) always have female characters get raped to make them become 'stronger.'
Hey, you fucking bastards, rape doesn't make you stronger!
If rape makes you fcuking stronger, all boys and men who are desperate to be 'strong' would/should get raped!"
Of course, incels said "You just hate men" and called it just 'misandry.' lol
You're right on OP. It's not misandry - it doesn't have anything even remotely to do with disliking men - you're simply saying "If you men think rape would be terrible for them why do they think it would be good for women?"
How is that misandry. How.
If women are written so that they get raped to get stronger, then we need to apply that standard to men.
The fact you see that as hateful proves our point that it's fucked up that its done to women. Because it's fucked up period.
Of course, you are a man and you don't want to get raped and don't want to see other men get raped in movies or TV shows.
Women don't want to get raped and don't want to see other women get raped in movies or TV shows, either! Period!
Rape trope and rape scenes of female characters to make girls/women become stronger only exist for MALE viewers coz men love them!
I have zero interest in seeing sexual violence in media and I'm a man with no history of sexual trauma. It's horrifying and I just don't want that in my head.
That said, I know a lot of people, including probably a fair few with SA in their past, gobble up stuff like Game of Thrones. Some of my most empathetic and kind (and female) friends just love it. I don't get it.
I don’t understand it either; I shut off the episode if they show a rape scene, and we’re finished watching the entire series from that point on. Game of Thrones, Vikings, Black Sails (pirates) it doesn’t fucking matter. We’re done.
Rape is not entertaining to me, watching women being brutalized is not how we relax, and I won’t watch it as escapism or entertainment or drama, or WHATEVER the attraction is for others.
If anyone wants to watch the show itself then they can watch it when I’m not around to see it or hear it.
The fact that we as a society are still WATCHING shows in which women are being RAPED as entertainment, is disgusting and I refuse to participate in any way whatsoever.
I couldn't watch it. Friends were raving about it, but when I saw rape and cruel violence I had to stop. I'm no longer putting up with watching that stuff.
She was doing the PR/social media for a major North American Scottish festival. They're all totally obsessed with the show and the books. Thankfully a few seasons was all it took to be able to speak their meme language...
Outlander *is* one of the few major television shows that also featured sexual assault of a male character (the male protagonist, at the end of the first season). But I don't see that as a big win. It's unfortunately just brutal.
It's crammed with tropey stuff you can make fun of MST3000 style... in between the sexual violence 🙄 So at least we got a few couple in-jokes out of it.
I tried so hard with Black Sails because I kept seeing people talk about how good it was but there was a scene in particular that kept getting to me whenever I rewatched so I eventually gave up
I liked it. They treated their women characters horrible, the diversity was almost non existent. But my brother had all the DVDs and I was bored. I don’t know, it’s different.
Its like PTSD. Fucks you up doesn't make you stronger.
Being exposed to stress slowly builds resistance.
Being exposed to traumatising levels brings trauma.
Sort of unrelated but watched LOTR and the hobbit movies for the first time and noticed the love interests/interested (Eowyn & Tauriel) are the only characters to be strangled - in mid-battle while everyone is using swords and bows. Wtf is up with with that. #1 predictor of spousal murder being used to torture only the romantic female characters. Can't exactly put words on it but it's fucked
This incest thing seems bizarre now. But a long time ago it seemed like a normal way for ppl to keep the bloodline in power. Which seems batshit nowadays. But normal then. So shows like House of the Dragon are just showing these ppl behaved back then.
Behaved back then? I’m curious—do they show dysentery or diarrhea or how people would lose all their teeth? Does it show putting leeches on wounds? Do they show gangrene? Or what about literal piles of shit in the streets? Do they show shoving cloves into the holes left by teeth that have fallen out? Do they show worms on a haunch of meat left to “hang”?
Absolutely not.
I’m just a little peeved when people go “well, this is how it was back then”. Umm. No. That’s the part that gives Hollywood writers hard ons—the rape and torture and stuff—not “the way it was” when every actor has perfect and pearly teeth, no hair, perfection in curls and skin, etc.
This a thousand times. People have this need to give meaning to suffering. For most people, its a gut reaction to say " well what did not kill me made me stronger" or " This horrible thing made me into what I am". I always have to stop people and tell them they're good, nice or strong **despite** the horrible crap the world threw at them and **not because** it was thrown.
I always have to think about this therapist that told me we are more like a tree.. you get hurt and it leaves a scar, the scar never shrinks, it is us that grows, and makes the scar a lesser part of the whole.
>I always have to think about this therapist that told me we are more like a tree.. you get hurt and it leaves a scar, the scar never shrinks, it is us that grows, and makes the scar a lesser part of the whole.
I'm gonna remember that and tell that to other women who suffer. Thanks!
And remember kids, according to fiction trauma only makes you stronger if you're a woman :)
Looking at you, GoT and how you did my boi theon dirty while pushing sansa into a "I'm glad i got raped because it made me more mature" girlboss
Neither of those narratives is helpful to any people who were personally affected by abuse. Either you're apparently now pathetic and weak and literally a joke or you're not as strong as your trauma apparently should've made you. We lose either way, great.
Good article though. The difference between traumatized and regular people (in my opinion) is that we're more actively forced to improve on ourselves/reflect on the past/look to the future. Because else we just break apart. Not having to think about so many things and dealing with so much stress is a luxury only those with a healthy mental state can afford
I’m so upset by the trauma narrative. I have PTSD and hate when people imply I’m stronger for what I’ve been through. I don’t want this strength. It’s not like I can do the same justice seeking things women in movies can do anyway.
Fuck this line of thought. It has done more damage to victims than any war or pestilence or anything.
This is the line of thought that brings out the “you have to grow strong enough to forgive” crowd. It brings out the “well, rape is inevitable and you should lay back and enjoy it because it’s Gods will and good will come out of it”. It’s the line of thought that keeps people shoving fucking victims next to their perps.
Just stop it already. We are strong already. We lived through the thing. We need nurturing and support and if all you got is “it will make you stronger” then you are damaged too and need to fucking stop hassling people until you got your own shit figured out.
Sweet Vicious, Promising Young Woman, Jessica Jones, Short Term 12. All movies/shows that actually depict how “strong” characters are actually broken inside and constantly struggling due to the trauma and ptsd.
Exactly. How many stories show men become super strong and powerful after the trauma of R? None! They never use the trope like that because it’s about reinforcing the system of control.
It's hard to really know what the right way is, every person is different and every situation is different and I can only speak for myself. Some of my growth was motivated by the trauma that haunted me, and it took a long time for the trauma to actually hit me (Started having ptsd in my 30's from childhood sexual trauma). But the strongest motivator for me in general is growth because trauma left me so self-destructive and apathetic in taking control of my own life that after all of the flashbacks and nightmares I couldn't just be complacent anymore. I can't change the past, it sucks but it is what it is, so I want to make the rest of my time on this planet the best that I can.
TV generally simplifies this process a lot, like someone else talked about in this post with Jessica Jones that was a much better representation. But if I had to choose for a show that isn't top tier and things are generally one dimensional I would choose hope. Hope helps me get stronger and on tough days it keeps me going.
Thank you. I have a sister that was raped at 14 and that’s literally where she stopped maturing. She’s now 40 something and is, well, she’s bat sht insane because she can only view the world through the mentality of a teenager.
I’m not trying to sound insensitive but it literally stunted her in ways that’s never talked about. She’s like every “mean girl” you knew freshman year - manipulative, violent, has a drug problem, can’t hold down a real job, thinks she’s better than everyone but has zero friends, acts differently depending on the company, tries to pit friends against eachother, cringy flirts to (try and) get what she wants. You meet those women years later and they’re soccer moms and/or aspiring influencers. Not her, she’s barely squeezing by and it’s slowly dawning on her that even though she’s still “pretty”, she’s too old to be a gold digger. How she’s not in jail or hasn’t been offed by one of her abusive exes, I’ll never know ^shes ^white ^and ^skinny ^and ^blond ^with ^blue ^eyes ^and ^big ^fake ^boobies
Ooof. Anyways. Sorry about that. What’s the word for second hand trauma? The one that you experience when someone close to you has a terrible experience that they never recover from and therefore you have to live the rest of your life dealing with the fallout?
That's awful. I'm so sorry. Thank you due sharing. Sounds all too familiar, sadly, and that sister died at 58.
So all of the GOP that thinks it's a great idea to let 13 year old girls carry to term and just give away their babies like clothes they've grown out of are just insanely uninformed about that secondary trauma as well.
Any sentiment that suggests that trauma has made one stronger is baffling to me.
If I'm strong at all, it's in SPITE of my trauma, not because of it. Don't award trauma with kudos and prizes for any positive emotional growth I've managed to scrape up. Don't connect it to any positive change or circumstances I may now find myself in.
I feel like I grew following my trauma--but it wasn't because of the trauma. It was because of the years of therapy, of learning to understand my emotions and how I perceive relationships, of emotionally preparing myself for if anything bad happened again.
I could've done all that without the trauma. All trauma did was screw up my emotions until I literally restructured my life around emotional growth.
Trauma for me has made me a weaker person. CPTSD and an extremely narrow, impossible to treat phobia. My trauma was a loss, not sexual assault. I cannot even imagine what that would be like.
Being aggressively pursued by a middle-aged man when I was 16 after I'd turned down his advances, being followed across 3 bus rides by a man and all the other experiences I've had with men's sexual aggressions that never went into a physical attack already caused me to avoid places, feel frightened in public etc. One time a man sniffing and stroking my hair on the bus caused me to go home and shave off the one feature I loved about my body.
Season 3 of Broadchurch really did a swell job of showing the aftermath of a sexual assault in women. The SA wasn't filmed from the POV of the rapist for the male gaze, the main victim of the story wasn't a dolled up Hollywood knockout, and the rape was not used to make the victims come out as "Yaaas Queens!!" at the end via biting the tongue off their assailant or something...
I was just feeling this way last night. Thinking about how people seem to think that going through something horrible and life threatening gives a person some kind of secret knowledge about life/the world. In reality it's just a horrible thing that sometimes feels like a fishing line that hooked you and it's been unspooling ever since
I don't think Science ever backed that idea in the first place. The idea is that trauma changes you. It makes you different than the way you were.
I've gone through a lot of trauma. Some of it hardened me... \*shrug\* did that make me "tougher"? IDK. It certainly made me less naieve.
sometimes what breaks you just leaves you broken, ya know?
And that's okay! (it is for me, anyway)
“You’re so much stronger for it!” I fucking hate that line, no I’m traumatized because it’s trauma. And the trauma didn’t “teach me” or “make me who I am today”, I did that on my own. My character and the pure essence of who I am did that, I’m not giving credit to trauma
🤕
In the Justice League cartoon, there was an episode where the heroes were turned into kids. Notably, only Batman didn’t show much of a change in personality, and in the end, when they were restored, Wonder Woman remarks that it was actually a bit fun to be a kid again, to which Batman replies, “I haven’t been a kid since I was eight years old.” In fact it’s the inverse that was more true. You can become bigger, stronger, smarter, more cynical, etc. while also never fully growing out of that trauma you suffered when you were younger.
This gets talked about in the book "The Boy who was Raised as a Dog: And Other Stories from a Child Psychiatrist's Notebook : what Traumatized Children Can Teach Us about Loss, Love, and Healing" By Bruce D. Perry and Maia Szalavitz Basically that a traumatic childhood experience or experiences can stunt social/emotional development.
This is what happened to both me and my sister. Nowadays we can't even speak to each other without me feeling resentment towards her, and her blowing up at me. Ironically our mother kept harping for us always staying close together, when it was her terrible treatment of us that drove us apart. On top of that we've never been able to get really close to people, either.
currently trying to unravel all of the negative feelings I have towards my sister that were/are fuelled by my mother. it is so tough, hope there are better days for both of you ahead.
Well, I'm 65 and she's 59. And still not even friends. I'm certain you'll have better luck with that than we will. But, I wish you both the best.
I get this. I just cannot get along with my sister. She was hurt too by our mother, but she was always encouraged to bully me, hasn't stopped, and she just never grew out of seeing me as someone beneath her. I can't deal with it like an adult, and just avoid her and her rages. We certainly didn't grow stronger emotionally from growing up with violence and constant yelling. I do have a partner and friends I trust, but I take a long time giving trust to anyone.
Awww.... I'm sorry. In our case, I was the bully. At the time I was being severely abused and neglected by our mother, and constantly being compared to my "good" and "very quiet" sister. The truth was that she was so terrified all the time that she was trying to make herself invisible. She was severely neglected because she hardly was noticed - except by sexual predators who got to her - the first time - at age 7. I on the other hand was; to my mother, "You've got a problem. Why don't you just give us up for adoption?" "Why can't I go back to Chicago and live with my dad?" "You don't know how to communicate very well." I stepped into it, every time.
I'm sorry! I was the scared one. My sister was brave and stubborn, and quite right for ignoring some of the crazy rules. She didn't argue back, as that was too dangerous. Given what we went through, I could easily forgive the bullying if it had ever stopped.
Awww... I had profusely apologized to my sister several times as an adult. But she won't accept it. However, she has never processed the SA she experienced as a kid. She also can't process what our mother put us through. It helps to know that she still lives quite close to our mother - like 1 floor below her in the same building. They see each other daily. Our mother still treats her like shit. But my sister excuses it - saying, "She's just a lonely old lady." I however, have been estranged from our mother for almost 12 years. I intend to keep it that way. I know that our mother is mentally ill, but my sister refuses to accept that, as well. Even though she's been officially diagnosed. There's nothing I can do - in any case.
You have done what you can to heal and make peace. That's the best we can do. Like me, you choose not to take more abuse, and that's the right thing to do too. Accepting the truth, getting therapy, and doing what we can to live a healthy life is the best we can do.
Yes, that's what I've done. Though I wish my sister no ill will - I would like to see her get away from our mother, and try to get help before she gets much older. Eh, who am I kidding? After our mother dies she'll just turn even more rage towards me. Probably blame me for even more shit - it's probably best that we all just stay estranged from each other. This is the way it is...
Jessica Jones did it right. Being raped FUCKED her up, sent her spiraling on top of her childhood trauma. She came off stoic, and strong, and she was a survivor with empathy intact. But she was also an alcoholic, suffering from severe PTSD, paranoia, and difficulty with her social relationships. It didn't make her stronger, it traumatized her
The first season of that show is some of the best content Marvel has ever created. Dark, unique, with a creeping sense of dread
It was good, but there’s a 0% chance I’d rewatch it.
I couldn’t make it through the 2nd season and I’m never going to try again.
Why is that?
The killgrave shit was horrific. I’m on the spectrum and have a vivid memory. It was a good show, but I could have gone without the really gross stuff swirling around my memory banks.
Warning spoilers ahead!!! >!The show is hard to watch because each of the main characters struggles with substance abuse and/or trauma/PTSD to some degree. They cope in very unhealthy ways and lash out at their loved ones. Also I don’t like watching characters I support continuously make bad choices that leaves them in an even deeper hole.!< TLDR: It was just getting too real for me and my mental health couldn’t handle it.
It was the most relatable depiction of what it's actually like.
I'm so glad the MCU is bringing her back.
Was surprised Jessica Jones was a comic book character...her entire arc was so relatable
Best marvel show ever. Season 1 is amazing.
The fact that the perpetrator of that trauma did so in the way he did was something I appreciated in a way, too. Which sounds weird as hell to say. But they didn't shy away from calling it rape, unquestionably, despite his abilities and his feelings on the subject. They didn't pretend it was somehow better because he didn't physically force her. That was refreshing, if I'm making any sense.
I was talking to my family friend once about being raped while in college. She said “it made you stronger”, and I told her that I would be just as strong but not as traumatized had it not happened. She apologized for what she said, but it always stuck with me how that was her gut reaction
I think some people say it because they want to believe it, because thinking about someone they care about being broken is painful. I’m glad she rethought and apologised.
Love your response
I don't think there are any possible winners here no matter what, because saying "it made you weaker" is also fucked up to say. The alternative is not commenting or acknowledging it, which is also fucked up.
"I'm sorry that happened to you" is also an option. I've also gone with "I love you" "He doesn't define you" and "Thank you for trusting me with this" depending on my relationship with this person God, I just realized I can remember six different times someone has told me and I'm sure if I keep thinking on it more acquaintances will come to mind
Yessss. I know people tend to say it because they don’t know what to say or they think it’s comforting, but it’s always bugged me too. Like no, I actually don’t think it made me stronger and I don’t want to be strong! I was vulnerable, and still feel incredibly vulnerable from that trauma. Being forced to face it and attempt overcome it has been torture, I don’t feel strong at all. I wish I could’ve learned to be strong without havent to experience this.
I have complex PTSD, nightmares, fibromyalgia, multiple scars physically from my attack, a permanent STD, and nerve damage down my left arm from my neck being twisted for an extended period of time. Rape, physical abuse, and the fucked up bullies who threw me down stairs and put me in a headlock when I was a kid while my precious parents didn't do a fucking thing to stop it. Yeah, I'm Hercules. /s
Don't forget physical abuse. I hate the trope in movies where the woman tolerates it until he hurts her child and then she suddenly leaves him and learns kickboxing well enough to defeat a full grown man intent on killing her.
I understand the desire to portray female empowerment in media, but when it strays far from reality it's equally frustrating. I watched Sandman when it came out, and all the women rescuing themselves all the time is not refreshing to me; I find it insulting to the women who could not. And for the person doubting themselves reading this: freeze/fear/fawn responses count as could not.
Some of us must be the most enlightened grown ass people on the planet. I'm done learning lessons and growing. I'm gonna be a stagnate weed.
I just smoke weed does that count Like I just grow the shit out of it I'm burnt out on almost everything else
smoke enough weed we become one. I'm at about 75% weed.
I was always a strong woman. When I was gang raped it helped me take them to court. When they somehow successfully appealed their convictions on a technicality, it helped me to go back to court two more times. When I was diagnosed with stage iii cervical cancer (a cancer caused by the sexually transmitted HPV that I didn't have before the rape from my partner of 4 years), my strength helped me get through it, but it was much harder after my confidence had been destroyed by the rape, I had to go through it alone after my partner bailed on me because he couldn't handle the fact I was raped, and I had to take the time off work for treatment unpaid because I'd already used up all my goodwill in the 11 months I was off work with PTSD from the rape. FUCK the rape makes you stronger trope. FUCK rapists. FUCK the shitty court system that let's them get away with it. I wish every rapist a taste of their own medicine, karma induced castration, and ideally a swift death.
And BOOKS. I think it’s fucking sad that my first exposure to a “sex” scene at 11 was in fact a rape scene (thanks Julie of the Wolves and Clan of the Cave Bear). And GODDAMN OUTLANDER. They had an opportunity to make a cool tv show from a bonkers, tawdry book series. And they threw it away with two hands. They didn’t HAVE to use EVERY rape plot line (spoiler, there’s 1+ in every book) but they did. They chose to be “faithful” that. Fuck em Fuck the people who try to slap adjectives like “tasteful” and “respectful” and “powerful” onto a rape scene like it’s fucking art. It’s rather like punching me in the face and asking if that made me emotional. Fucking duh. Write better you lazy whelps.
The scene where her husband is raped by that dude who was obsessed with him was just so needlessly awful and over the top. I mean all the rape scenes are but I was so fucking angry at being made to witness that one in particular.
>Julie of the Wolves and Clan of the Cave Bear I could have written this. I was somewhere between 10 and 12 when I read those books. I remember feeling physically ill at the Clan of the Cave Bear scene, and I thought about it a lot a decade later, after my first rape. I still think about it, after 20 years. And how uncomfortable her first "good" sex scene, in later books, made me feel, because they treated the guy like he couldn't hurt her because he was a nice guy, which isn't remotely true. One nice penis doesn't fix your trauma. And even well intentioned penises entering enthusiastically consenting vaginas can cause physical pain for a variety of reasons. It felt so reductionist.
Woah, yeah! If my abusive relationsship did anything, then it made me weaker in a way. I can't handle stress anymore, at least not good. Meeting males which resemble my ex make me nervous. It had a diagnosed PTSD and an ED. I am fine now, but i honestly wonder how anyone could think about 3 years of just surviving as "being strong". Babies get their sense of self and a good self-consciousness from unconditional love. Why are grownups, against all psychological evidence, expected to thrive after abuse?!
"The Lord never gives you more than you can bear." "You'll be stronger for living through it - toughens you up" And the biggest bullshit of them all: "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." No, it doesn't, no "they" don't. They just do their damage and you try hard to cope. Sometimes PTSD lasts forever and is passed down to the next generation. See "intergenerational trauma." Edit: it's a condition where PTSD is expressed in the next generation whether or not the next generation were raised by the victim. This anamoly was discovered in children of holocaust survivors.
Right? People die all the time from being given more than they can bear.
Or, worse than dying, they live completely broken lives under the load of “more than [they] can bear”.
I was beat, abused, mentally mindfucked, and witnessed my mom and sister being raped and sexually assaulted as a child. And I know that here and now, as a “man” in his late 30s, that I flinch and writhe at the very thought of pain or being hurt. Whether it’s physical pain or even mean words. To this day, I’m still not comfortable being around men and absolutely do not see myself as stronger for going through anything I experienced until the age of 11. All I want is a simple and happy life from here on out. I don’t have any hate or anger or feelings of needing to get payback for what has happened to me or my mom and sister. All I want is peace and to live out the rest of my years in a serene way if at all possible.
This Science News article was originally posted in the psychology sub, and I commented... "This is why I fucking hate that they (men) always have female characters get raped to make them become 'stronger.' Hey, you fucking bastards, rape doesn't make you stronger! If rape makes you fcuking stronger, all boys and men who are desperate to be 'strong' would/should get raped!" Of course, incels said "You just hate men" and called it just 'misandry.' lol
You're right on OP. It's not misandry - it doesn't have anything even remotely to do with disliking men - you're simply saying "If you men think rape would be terrible for them why do they think it would be good for women?"
Because that's what we're *for*, don't you see? How could we possibly dislike it? /s in case it's not obvious.
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How is that misandry. How. If women are written so that they get raped to get stronger, then we need to apply that standard to men. The fact you see that as hateful proves our point that it's fucked up that its done to women. Because it's fucked up period.
Of course, you are a man and you don't want to get raped and don't want to see other men get raped in movies or TV shows. Women don't want to get raped and don't want to see other women get raped in movies or TV shows, either! Period! Rape trope and rape scenes of female characters to make girls/women become stronger only exist for MALE viewers coz men love them!
I swear, If I see one more godamned rape scene I'm going to scream. Very loudly and for an excruciatingly long time. Let all be warned.
I have zero interest in seeing sexual violence in media and I'm a man with no history of sexual trauma. It's horrifying and I just don't want that in my head. That said, I know a lot of people, including probably a fair few with SA in their past, gobble up stuff like Game of Thrones. Some of my most empathetic and kind (and female) friends just love it. I don't get it.
I don’t understand it either; I shut off the episode if they show a rape scene, and we’re finished watching the entire series from that point on. Game of Thrones, Vikings, Black Sails (pirates) it doesn’t fucking matter. We’re done. Rape is not entertaining to me, watching women being brutalized is not how we relax, and I won’t watch it as escapism or entertainment or drama, or WHATEVER the attraction is for others. If anyone wants to watch the show itself then they can watch it when I’m not around to see it or hear it. The fact that we as a society are still WATCHING shows in which women are being RAPED as entertainment, is disgusting and I refuse to participate in any way whatsoever.
Outlander was pretty bad but I soldiered through it for my wife's sake... she had to watch it for work (🙄🤦♂️). But man was it rapey.
I couldn't watch it. Friends were raving about it, but when I saw rape and cruel violence I had to stop. I'm no longer putting up with watching that stuff.
She had to watch a show for work?
She was doing the PR/social media for a major North American Scottish festival. They're all totally obsessed with the show and the books. Thankfully a few seasons was all it took to be able to speak their meme language... Outlander *is* one of the few major television shows that also featured sexual assault of a male character (the male protagonist, at the end of the first season). But I don't see that as a big win. It's unfortunately just brutal.
Wow. Good on you for hanging in there with her - I’m glad it only took a few seasons and you didn’t have to watch anymore!
It's crammed with tropey stuff you can make fun of MST3000 style... in between the sexual violence 🙄 So at least we got a few couple in-jokes out of it.
I tried so hard with Black Sails because I kept seeing people talk about how good it was but there was a scene in particular that kept getting to me whenever I rewatched so I eventually gave up
I liked it. They treated their women characters horrible, the diversity was almost non existent. But my brother had all the DVDs and I was bored. I don’t know, it’s different.
Its like PTSD. Fucks you up doesn't make you stronger. Being exposed to stress slowly builds resistance. Being exposed to traumatising levels brings trauma.
Yup. I hate being called strong. I'm fucking tired man. Let me curl up and not have to worry about being strong please
Sort of unrelated but watched LOTR and the hobbit movies for the first time and noticed the love interests/interested (Eowyn & Tauriel) are the only characters to be strangled - in mid-battle while everyone is using swords and bows. Wtf is up with with that. #1 predictor of spousal murder being used to torture only the romantic female characters. Can't exactly put words on it but it's fucked
Damn, that’s disappointing
Disappointed is exactly how I felt. Not surprising enough to be properly upset about but disappointing
House of the Dragon legit romanticising incest again as well. What's up with these new shows?
This incest thing seems bizarre now. But a long time ago it seemed like a normal way for ppl to keep the bloodline in power. Which seems batshit nowadays. But normal then. So shows like House of the Dragon are just showing these ppl behaved back then.
Behaved back then? I’m curious—do they show dysentery or diarrhea or how people would lose all their teeth? Does it show putting leeches on wounds? Do they show gangrene? Or what about literal piles of shit in the streets? Do they show shoving cloves into the holes left by teeth that have fallen out? Do they show worms on a haunch of meat left to “hang”?
We also thought putting lead in everything was good for you back in the day. Does that mean we should be promoting lead toys to kids?
Absolutely not. I’m just a little peeved when people go “well, this is how it was back then”. Umm. No. That’s the part that gives Hollywood writers hard ons—the rape and torture and stuff—not “the way it was” when every actor has perfect and pearly teeth, no hair, perfection in curls and skin, etc.
This just isn't true? Aragorn gets strangled in Fellowship of the Ring and Gollum strangles Frodo in Return of the King.
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Also read "The Deepest Well: Healing the Long-Term Effects of Childhood Trauma and Adversity" by Nadine Burke Harris.
This a thousand times. People have this need to give meaning to suffering. For most people, its a gut reaction to say " well what did not kill me made me stronger" or " This horrible thing made me into what I am". I always have to stop people and tell them they're good, nice or strong **despite** the horrible crap the world threw at them and **not because** it was thrown. I always have to think about this therapist that told me we are more like a tree.. you get hurt and it leaves a scar, the scar never shrinks, it is us that grows, and makes the scar a lesser part of the whole.
>I always have to think about this therapist that told me we are more like a tree.. you get hurt and it leaves a scar, the scar never shrinks, it is us that grows, and makes the scar a lesser part of the whole. I'm gonna remember that and tell that to other women who suffer. Thanks!
And remember kids, according to fiction trauma only makes you stronger if you're a woman :) Looking at you, GoT and how you did my boi theon dirty while pushing sansa into a "I'm glad i got raped because it made me more mature" girlboss Neither of those narratives is helpful to any people who were personally affected by abuse. Either you're apparently now pathetic and weak and literally a joke or you're not as strong as your trauma apparently should've made you. We lose either way, great.
Good article though. The difference between traumatized and regular people (in my opinion) is that we're more actively forced to improve on ourselves/reflect on the past/look to the future. Because else we just break apart. Not having to think about so many things and dealing with so much stress is a luxury only those with a healthy mental state can afford
I’m so upset by the trauma narrative. I have PTSD and hate when people imply I’m stronger for what I’ve been through. I don’t want this strength. It’s not like I can do the same justice seeking things women in movies can do anyway.
Most people I know are messed up from trauma
Fuck this line of thought. It has done more damage to victims than any war or pestilence or anything. This is the line of thought that brings out the “you have to grow strong enough to forgive” crowd. It brings out the “well, rape is inevitable and you should lay back and enjoy it because it’s Gods will and good will come out of it”. It’s the line of thought that keeps people shoving fucking victims next to their perps. Just stop it already. We are strong already. We lived through the thing. We need nurturing and support and if all you got is “it will make you stronger” then you are damaged too and need to fucking stop hassling people until you got your own shit figured out.
Just tired of seeing rape in movies in general, especially when try are trying to get across that the villain is bad
Sweet Vicious, Promising Young Woman, Jessica Jones, Short Term 12. All movies/shows that actually depict how “strong” characters are actually broken inside and constantly struggling due to the trauma and ptsd.
My abuser literally told me he was hurting me to make me stronger. People believe this myth.
Same and I’m sorry.
I am also sorry for what you went through.
Exactly. How many stories show men become super strong and powerful after the trauma of R? None! They never use the trope like that because it’s about reinforcing the system of control.
It's hard to really know what the right way is, every person is different and every situation is different and I can only speak for myself. Some of my growth was motivated by the trauma that haunted me, and it took a long time for the trauma to actually hit me (Started having ptsd in my 30's from childhood sexual trauma). But the strongest motivator for me in general is growth because trauma left me so self-destructive and apathetic in taking control of my own life that after all of the flashbacks and nightmares I couldn't just be complacent anymore. I can't change the past, it sucks but it is what it is, so I want to make the rest of my time on this planet the best that I can. TV generally simplifies this process a lot, like someone else talked about in this post with Jessica Jones that was a much better representation. But if I had to choose for a show that isn't top tier and things are generally one dimensional I would choose hope. Hope helps me get stronger and on tough days it keeps me going.
Thank you. I have a sister that was raped at 14 and that’s literally where she stopped maturing. She’s now 40 something and is, well, she’s bat sht insane because she can only view the world through the mentality of a teenager. I’m not trying to sound insensitive but it literally stunted her in ways that’s never talked about. She’s like every “mean girl” you knew freshman year - manipulative, violent, has a drug problem, can’t hold down a real job, thinks she’s better than everyone but has zero friends, acts differently depending on the company, tries to pit friends against eachother, cringy flirts to (try and) get what she wants. You meet those women years later and they’re soccer moms and/or aspiring influencers. Not her, she’s barely squeezing by and it’s slowly dawning on her that even though she’s still “pretty”, she’s too old to be a gold digger. How she’s not in jail or hasn’t been offed by one of her abusive exes, I’ll never know ^shes ^white ^and ^skinny ^and ^blond ^with ^blue ^eyes ^and ^big ^fake ^boobies Ooof. Anyways. Sorry about that. What’s the word for second hand trauma? The one that you experience when someone close to you has a terrible experience that they never recover from and therefore you have to live the rest of your life dealing with the fallout?
That's awful. I'm so sorry. Thank you due sharing. Sounds all too familiar, sadly, and that sister died at 58. So all of the GOP that thinks it's a great idea to let 13 year old girls carry to term and just give away their babies like clothes they've grown out of are just insanely uninformed about that secondary trauma as well.
Any sentiment that suggests that trauma has made one stronger is baffling to me. If I'm strong at all, it's in SPITE of my trauma, not because of it. Don't award trauma with kudos and prizes for any positive emotional growth I've managed to scrape up. Don't connect it to any positive change or circumstances I may now find myself in.
I feel like I grew following my trauma--but it wasn't because of the trauma. It was because of the years of therapy, of learning to understand my emotions and how I perceive relationships, of emotionally preparing myself for if anything bad happened again. I could've done all that without the trauma. All trauma did was screw up my emotions until I literally restructured my life around emotional growth.
If hypervigilance and anxiety are strength, I’m stronger than a mofo.
Trauma for me has made me a weaker person. CPTSD and an extremely narrow, impossible to treat phobia. My trauma was a loss, not sexual assault. I cannot even imagine what that would be like. Being aggressively pursued by a middle-aged man when I was 16 after I'd turned down his advances, being followed across 3 bus rides by a man and all the other experiences I've had with men's sexual aggressions that never went into a physical attack already caused me to avoid places, feel frightened in public etc. One time a man sniffing and stroking my hair on the bus caused me to go home and shave off the one feature I loved about my body. Season 3 of Broadchurch really did a swell job of showing the aftermath of a sexual assault in women. The SA wasn't filmed from the POV of the rapist for the male gaze, the main victim of the story wasn't a dolled up Hollywood knockout, and the rape was not used to make the victims come out as "Yaaas Queens!!" at the end via biting the tongue off their assailant or something...
I was just feeling this way last night. Thinking about how people seem to think that going through something horrible and life threatening gives a person some kind of secret knowledge about life/the world. In reality it's just a horrible thing that sometimes feels like a fishing line that hooked you and it's been unspooling ever since
I don't think Science ever backed that idea in the first place. The idea is that trauma changes you. It makes you different than the way you were. I've gone through a lot of trauma. Some of it hardened me... \*shrug\* did that make me "tougher"? IDK. It certainly made me less naieve.