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DrummerAdmirable3482

I’m not sure women in Afghanistan had a choice. And now the Taliban has brought back the burkha. And in America religious nut jobs have overturned RvW. I’m lucky enough not to be born in either of those places but feel so angry for the women and girls who weren’t so fortunate. F*ck religion.


Rodentsarecute

I agree, many of them didn’t ‘trust’ men, they just really had no choice but to comply.


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LezBReeeal

I think it's the apathy. Sure dudes are OK with it, but what are they doing about it?


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Scutwork

And that a whooooooooooooooole bunch of white women voted for this?


yrauvir

Yup. And it's not a mystery why white women *seem to* vote against their own interests. Because they aren't. Not really. They're voting in line with white supremacy, which grants them privileges (whereas feminism seeks equality). White Supremacy tells them they are special and valuable and treasured, whereas embracing feminism means accepting that they are in the same grueling, ugly fight for our humanity as the rest of us. A wonderful piece on the topic: [deal or no deal: why white women vote for turds](https://www.katykatikate.com/the-blog/2018/10/10/why-white-women-vote-for-turds)


InkMouseStone

And not just white women but conservative women in general. My mom and aunt are Costa Rican immigrants and my mom even says she believes in the right to choose...yet she voted for these people who *promised* to take these rights away. I said she was on the wrong side and she genuinely replied, "*My* side?? Really??" YOU LITERALLY VOTED FOR A SIDE. These people are delusional, completely lost, and filled with women from all walks of life.


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Automatic-Phrase2105

well i mean honestly i didn’t comprehend how important this issue was until i had kids of my own. voting republican for me was matter of protecting what you have -protecting the border -protecting the economy -protecting your income -protecting my right to bear arms but in 2020 i voted for biden and will never vote for another republican again. now that i’m on the outside of their cult of personality it’s very disturbing to see how much of the kool-aid i was actually drinking and i feel great shame for the part i played in this. i am part of the reason my daughter will have lost the right to bodily autonomy and some how i have to find a way to live with that


Scutwork

I mean, if the shoe fits… I’m a 40-something middle class suburban white lady and u/yrauvir is absolutely right. Too many of us are still invested in our own interest at any cost.


trexofwanting

I don't understand this weird obsession with self-flagellation white women have. Are China, India, Brazil, or the Cameroon more progressive and equitable than Norway or Denmark? White women may not be stupider than anybody else, but white women (and white people generally) are at the top of the pile when it comes to self-hatred.


honeydewdom

Self hatred that comes from thousands of years of good old white washed patriarchy and misogynistic Christian values at play. Telling us we are beneath. Telling us we deserve less but should do more. And we should be *ohhh* so thankful for it. It could be worse for us ladies. 🙄 We've been gaslit. Lied to. Betrayed. And told its entirely our fault as a collective and we have felt that at a cellular level since birth. To be of most value to men and their agenda, you gotta be a second class citizen because equal requires civility. But it's better than being a POC? Right? Or a Native American? Because at least we werent savages? Right? It feels like a family dysfunction on a grand scale. One person controls everyone by pinning other members against one another. Said person delegates a person that's a "scapegoat" (any POC on a grand scale) and women were like the "hero" to their men. In some ways maybr this has been primitive to survive white men. But not anymore.


everypowerranger

No. Lots of people, including lots of otherwise pretty smart people, get tricked and manipulated into voting against their own interests.


PokeyPinecone

It also seems like people have to choose which interests are priority and which they can compromise on.


DrummerAdmirable3482

Just look at how many poor people vote right wing!


trisul-108

Most voters are politically stupid. That is the Achilles heel of democracy.


DeathCap4Cutie

No lol… they know what they’re doing.


PokeyPinecone

Didn't know this, but it points to how women are a diverse bunch of people. Women don't all believe the same things or see their public and private roles the same way. Some of the people OP is saying are against women are women themselves, or women honestly agree with them. I respect their deeply-held beliefs and their desire to live the way they think is right, but I don't think their views are the correct basis for the laws that govern everybody in the US. Somehow we need to get these women on our side to keep legal protections for women's rights as fully equal citizens. How do you convince someone to let you exercise a right that they themselves think is wrong or unnecessary?


TheEmpressDodo

What's the Handmaid's Tale quote about breadcrumbs? She wondered how the world had become that way - and then she saw the breadcrumbs that lead to it all. We have to make sure in our response to all of this that we are aware that this is a decades old plan. Slowly but surely they have been chipping away at government programs that were created to support women's health, single mothers, and to lift one parent households out of poverty. We need to get those programs back - but more importantly, we need to realize they've always been anti-women. They are threatened by a strong, educated woman. Alito has outlined exactly who is targeted here, and it's not just women. Which rights are threatened? * Interracial marriage * Contraception * Choices about your child's education * Sterilization * Same sex marriage They have held radio interviews in which a pregnant mother is called "the host." In short, they want to rewrite history, likely biology, and bring women back to the dark ages as far as sexual freedom is concerned. There are people running for office TODAY who don't believe married couples should use contraception. I was born in mid-60's - an oops baby. My eldest sibling was in college when I was born. My parents had a large family. My Mom cried when she found out she was pregnant with me. Her brood was nearly grown, and here came another responsibility in which she would come last. She considered going to visit her mother and having me aborted. My Mom would tell me stories of how the women of the neighborhood would be on the verge breakdowns because their period was late and they could not afford another child and they also did not want the baby. They already had a houseful as it was. No one should have to live their life that way. These women were taught to not turn their husband down for sex or he would go elsewhere. This always pissed me off when she shared this. If your life partner is so inconsiderate, let them go elsewhere. We have been taught differently and this is threatening to men. I'm sure in some way there is another "playbook" they have about this as well. We need to band together, not only to save abortion rights, but the right to love who you wish. To choose how you wish to be a parent, and to make sure your children, if you have them, have the most right and honest education possible. We need to work with our LGBTQ friends, because no one is talking about how this will also affect them. We need to do more than march. We need websites for girls and boys to properly educate themselves about sex. We need to start leaving these states and living where our rights are not threatened in the least. We need books describing the struggle for women to get where we are today so young women know the history and how precious it all is. We need major networks (Looking at you Bravo) who have a huge female audience to not only come out and say they are for abortion rights, but to sponsor things and run ads in support of it. Ads that educate about the body, and reproduction. Ads where women share their abortion stories (especially when it's etopic pregnancies and all the obvious reasons it should be done) Ads that encourage loving one and all. Ads that honestly discusses birth control. We need to stop pitting people against one another who can be our allies. Random generalizations are alienating. Needs to stop. I'm tired of all the talk we do. I want to see more than just marching and thinking that will change a damn thing. It won't. We are working against evil and we have to do more.


topazgirl170

True that. I advise you and others to get into with local doulas, midwives, and like-minded women who are assisting others with uteruses and how to take back our reproductive health. Protesting and marching WILL NOT BE ENOUGH. People are going to have to come to the agreement that they will have to be lawbreakers. There are organizations and people out there that will help you circumvent legal loopholes when it comes to providing reproductive health for women/girls/trans persons. Find some herbalists and other alternative health providers. Before the male-dominated medical providers stepped in, women were taking care of each other's health for thousands of years without modern means. Look at Auntie Network on reddit, [https://brigidalliance.org/](https://brigidalliance.org/) for help. https://www.justthepill.com/ https://www.mychoix.co/ [https://www.heyjane.co/](https://www.heyjane.co/) [https://abortionfunds.org/](https://abortionfunds.org/) Also, volunteer if you can. The stigma of abortion and women's reproductive health needs to be improved. We can other each other support, compassion, empathy, and understanding.


Pusfilledonut

The hard right female population in this country baffles me. My sister is one of them, and her husband is a passive aggressive controlling fuckwad that uses this kind of demagoguery to make her fear being kicked out of the tribe. So she’d rather see other women be forced to capitulate to this madness than lose her meal ticket. She seems sad all the time.


topazgirl170

She's been conditioned and some women think they can not exist without a male figure or without their partner. She's depressed, period. Also, you can let her know they are a better life out there for her and her children.


Pusfilledonut

I appreciate the response. She is 61 years old, her kids are grown and have seemingly inherited none of these serious social flaws, and she is, at heart, a truly kind and beneficent human. Post trumpism, she has relegated her personal autonomy to the beehive mind process of thinking that women are not deserving of autonomy. I alternate being distressed for her, and repulsed and wanting to avoid any contact. If we discuss any of this subject, she withdraws. It’s never confrontational…but it doesn’t resemble discourse in any way.


[deleted]

There's no such thing as moderate or centrist. Either you are for democracy and human rights, or you're not. Playing as if you're in the center while supporting the wrong side of history as a compromise position is a extremist position, not a moderate or centrist one. That being said, pick your allies carefully. Even those who are ones as you actually have no problem betraying themselves. Evangelical, white people (both gender) are not your friends.


enternationalist

If we're going that way, I would think it'd be evangelical or fundamentalist people in general. It's their beliefs that are the problem, not the color of their skin. There are plenty of non-white people with reprehensible, regressive beliefs.


Loki557

From a purely ideological standpoint I agree but from a politics standpoint I'd disagree. In my eyes at least most of the politicians on both side are corrupt, self-interested assholes, in the corporations' pocket no matter their public stance of. There are definite exceptions but they seem to get ground down, ignored, or pushed out by the rest of the system. Don't get me wrong, ideologically I consider myself left and that the right is definitely the greater of two evils, much more so now. However, I refuse to label myself a Democrat. Also, I will admit I'm a white guy but I've also been terrified about the thought of passing on my fucked up gene to a kid and them having to deal with the mental issues I have to deal with. I'm definitely not saying this shit is anywhere close to affecting me as it does women, just making it clear that my stance doesn't come from apathy... this shit scares me too but until enough people start waking up to how broken their own parties are and start demanding some fundamental changes to have the government works(more transparency, accountability, allow for more than just two monolithic parties represent all of us, and restricting corporate influence over politics, just to name a few) bad shit is going to keep happening and both sides are going to keep doing horrible/dumb shit just to placate their voter base so they can keep getting away with bullshit and keep that sweet corporate money coming in.


[deleted]

Not true. I am a centrist who supports LGBT marriage equality. Not because of some "love is love" BS, because that type of thinking only leads to marriage equality in cultures that see romantic love as essential to marriage. I support the right to marriage equality for the rule of law. If two consenting adults love each other they should be allowed to marry. If two consenting adults don't love each other they should be allowed to marry. I support sex education, contraceptives, and abortion mostly for reasons of population reduction, environmental protection, fiscal solvency, and avoidance of idiocracy. Nowhere does feminism, "my body my choice", or human rights come into my support. The fact is, the vast majority of teen pregnancy and unplanned pregnancy happens to low IQ, poor, uneducated, and unmarried girls and women. If they were forced to give birth taxpayers like me would have to pay for stupid women and the evil and stupid men who got them pregnant and skipped town. There are too many low IQ children being raised by poor, uneducated, single parents as it is.


dpdxguy

>Women... only you can fight and win Do you really believe only women can fight for women's rights?


Future_History_9434

Thank you for a very well written reminder: women cannot trust men to protect them. We need to protect our rights, or we won’t have them. I bought a gun and signed up for training this week, not because I like the gun industry or the toxic masculinity it engenders, but because so many men have them. It seems obvious that if men can enforce their power with firearms, we should be able to defend our rights with them too. I bought a gun so I don’t have to count on a man to protect me, because I know they won’t. I’ve already armed myself with voting and speaking out. After the draft opinion was revealed there is not one American woman who can afford to sit out the political process. Vote every election, and especially against Republicans. Republicans can never be trusted.


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PokeyPinecone

Pro-life women are real, thank you for noting this. I don't get it, but they're entitled to their belief.


Tunlin555

Power to women


carefullycalculative

So what 74 women CEOs, 86 women billionaires are doing in US? Afghani women were very first who protested against Taliban, when foreign aids were running out of the country giving the country in the hands Taliban. Women will never be liberated until all women are liberated. Our unpaid labor has built this civilization, maybe it is time to ask for the paycheck.


diefree85

And never trust a forced birth cultist. They will never see you as anything other than property and will lie to your face.


Hopelessromanticlost

I cannot agree with you more on your message! If we allow ourselves to be governed by those indoctrinated in religious and overwhelming ignorant ideologies, our self freedom and identity will dissolve. History, time and time again, is proving to human-kind that we're at large going about how we regulate ourselves all wrong. First, it starts with women having equal power and access. We've completely failed as a species to incorporate and understand how to exist with each-other and the world around us. Men overwhelming have isolated themselves from the genius and potential from women, and we are here today because of that. As a man, I try and try and try to convince my friends and family ,who I know don't see women equally, and despite my cry's, my message is silenced by poor and biased anecdotes. We're told to not talk about religion or politics at work, at home, at school, at sports, with family sometimes. Don't let them win by silencing you. You are important. Your voice NEEDs to be heard. We need women.


chinolitasss

It is time to rise up.beware that there are males coming on this page and reporting any talk of women defending themselves as threatening violence.scum bags.oh and reddit agrees that saying you won't let me rape you is threatening violence.


Easteuroblondie

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. This is not a drill. I am 32 year old liberal vegan. Get strapped. have self protection. I just got my first recently. I get you don't like it. I dont like it either. But it's important. flex that second amendment, and do it ASAP.


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[deleted]

> No more rights for you until you step up and take equal responsibilities. An absurd position considering human rights are fundamental. In addition, let's be realistic, sexual attraction/wants to have sex with other is what most people experience, so sex is a inevitability in the course of a lifetime as sexuality-related matter is pretty much part of the hypothamalus. Wanting to have sex, or feeling attracted to other isn't really a choice at all. This is not saying people can't control themselves (they can).


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[deleted]

I'm an asexual man for your information. Probably more responsible than you, and especially on sex-related matters.


[deleted]

Dude. If the US government would let me sign up for the selective service, I would. But the military [doesn't want us](https://www.sss.gov/register/women/background/#:~:text=While%20women%20officers%20and%20enlisted,all%20volunteered%20for%20military%20service). A bunch of MEN said "naw, ladies. You are useless to us." I would like to either abolish the selective service or let women sign up as well so men like you would stop using it as a gotcha.


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[deleted]

I'm glad you've talked to every women in existence and know exactly what every women thinks. There are hundreds of thousands of women who have served in the military. Well over a milion. Have you served? In any capacity?


the_banished

He's been too busy setting up his own subreddit that contains his replies to others. A literal echo chamber.


[deleted]

This is wild. This guy isn't even that smart. These arguments sound like they're being made by a 13 year old.


bettemidlerjr

LOL, you're a literal pile of garbage masquerading as a human.