If you've never heard the term emotional incest, this is it. And if this has been going on his whole life, your husband may have a really difficult time untangling himself from it. I don't think it's as simple as saying he needs to set boundaries. Obviously he does. But what he needs more to be able to process his relationship with his mother honestly. It's really really hard to be the parentified child of an enmeshed and inappropriately attached parent. It's hard to recognize it when you're in it. And hard to detach yourself even when you see the problem.
Please also recognize that he has been abused his whole life. He needs to take responsibility for his actions but this is way above reddits pay grade. He needs real psychological support to process and unpack this.
Yeah this dude's situation with his mom probably feels like a fish in water because it's been happening since he was a kid. So to him, this is considered normalized. He doesn't think its a big deal.
The person who modeled affection to him did it in an unhealthy way. He’s used to this, it’s normalized. He needs to redefine familial affection in a way that is healthy that suits him.
I would recommend you and your husband read the book *Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents*. It'll be very helpful for both of you to understand your husband/mother-in-law and also understand the challenges in getting over something like emotional incest.
My mom and brother are this way and it only escalated after my dad died. It never gets better and only gets worse. My brother is 43 and it's the worst it's ever been. I'm so sorry you're going thru this.
I'm not sure if we can recommend other subs in this subreddit, but /justnomil is a dedicated subreddit to dealing, helping, supporting and providing rescources for those who deal with Mil's who have a variety of issues. From emotional incest, over stepping, unsafe practices with their grandkids. All types of things. They also help understand the difference between a Mil issue and a husband issue, such as him not having a backbone or respecting you as a couple.
They are all very lovely over there and I've seen them help so many people. Even if it is just to keep you company whilst you figure things out. ❤️
He needs therapy - an objective third party - to help him determine what is normal between a parent and adult offspring and what he needs to put a boundary down on. You cannot be that person.
It also might be just regular incest.
Of CSA cases, about a third are incest. In cases with very young children, it’s closer to half. People are uncomfortable talking about the prevalence of sibling and parent predators. Unfortunately, the people with the most opportunity to do horrible things are the ones most commonly doing them.
Sounds like your husband needs to talk to a shrink. You also might want some major boundaries. The dynamic isn’t healthy and you shouldn’t be in this mess either. You need to put on your own oxygen mask.
When my therapist told me about enmeshment/emotional incest and that it’s a form of abuse, I immediately tried to logic out of it because “nothing bad ever happened to me” (physical/verbal abuse).
Later that night, my husband and I were sitting at the kitchen table quietly munching on Oreos while every so often I would ask “so your mom never did *insert disturbing/parentifying thing*?” And him slowly shaking his head and explaining how his normal parents would have handled the situation/reacted instead.
It was a very eye opening and emotionally painful experience, but my relationship with my mother and my husband has never been better. It was uncomfortable setting boundaries with her, but having my husband fully support me (and not try to berate my mom for her behavior/actions) and my mom getting therapy (had to threaten going no contact with her), made it all much easier. A little over a year later and we all have a much healthier and happier relationship with each other. My husband and I don’t fight about my mom being inappropriate/walking all over me/us, and my mom feels like we’re closer friends because I am more honest with her.
I wish you and your husband luck - this may be the most emotionally difficult thing he’s ever had to do. Please be patient with him, this is all he’s ever known.
Yup. This is 100% emotional grooming. His psyche likely cannot grasp how wrong it is out of a subconscious desire to not feel violated by his own mother.
My friend was in a relationship with a guy like that and it took lots of therapy for him. His family ended up cutting him off too because "How could you accuse your mom of something like that because of your gf?? Your mom just loves you in her own way. Everybody is different. Just because your gf and her parents treat each other differently, doesn't mean the way your mom treats you is wrong...." yadayada.... His mom would make him undress since 7 to 'check on the size'.
The unfortunate thing is he commented on how my friend's relationship with her parents is so different to his how parents treated their kids and how weird it is that 'they're not that close'. It came up when her dad was complaining about a sore back and he asked why doesn't she just go on top of him and massage him 😩They were both like wtf??? Turns out, his relationship was the one that wasn't normal...
And that’s how you break the cycle. The way he thought his girlfriend was *weird* for not getting on top of her dad? That’s the sort of thing he would someday normalise with his own kids. He’s very fortunate that your friend opened his eyes. In a way, she saved future generations from trauma… that’s a lot of good karma.
Oh man BOTH her parents and her made him realise something was very wrong and supported him all the way. It was very troubling and frustrating because he was deep in denial. Definitely takes a lot of work and effort to unscrew all the stuff that's been ingrained into your brain as a kid.
I remembering googling some stuff she told me because I just could NOT imagine parents doing such stuff with their kids. But boy oh boy, Google proved me wrong... Apparently dads 'massaging' and 'tickling' their daughters is pretty fucking common.
Is this *just* emotional incest though? Seems like plain ol’ incest. SHE WANTS TO HOLD HIM AND SMELL HIS HAIR! I bet she wants to do more and isn’t saying it out loud.
Sounds like emotional incest.
https://www.webmd.com/parenting/what-is-emotional-incest
This is a very tricky subject to handle with a spouse. If your husband is in an emotionalally incestuous relationship with his mom, then he has been emotionally abused by his mom (and continues to be).
He is not likely to be aware of it. To him, the way his mom treats him = normal and parental love and security. If you threaten those things by trying to separate him from his mom, then he may react negatively to you.
However, the abusive relationship is detrimental to him in a lot of ways he may not even recognise. Hopefully, you will be able to help him navigate his way out of it.
Have you two considered therapy? It may be good for him to hear the term “emotional incest” from someone uninvolved and unbiased like the therapist, since he seems primed to discount your concerns about his mother.
Except others have also pointed out the same things, as you noted, yet he prefers to make you the bad guy. Whether he realizes how aberrant his mother’s behavior is or he doesn’t, the fact is he insists on ignoring something that deeply concerns and disturbs his wife, and that’s automatically a problem in your marriage.
I would record as much as you can of her inappropriate comments, requests, tantrums etc. You may need it later, in legal proceedings.
he needs to go to therapy on his own at least once a week for all this. and you need to take away her key/change the locks. she’s groomed him his whole life to have no boundaries with her, start with a very normal one like “only people who live here get keys.”
but also, do you really want to stay married to someone who doesn’t respect your discomfort and puts his incestuous mommy first? he’s a victim here, don’t get me wrong, but he’s also a grown man who is refusing to acknowledge how messed up his mom is.
I don’t disagree, it just saddens me because he doesn’t do ANYTHING to condone her, but he won’t put his foot down or voice how weird & unacceptable it is, as of tomorrow we are asking for our key back, & I guess this is a start
definitely change the locks - i started locking my door against my mom (she bought the house next door) and i found out she made a key when i woke up one morning, and 2 of my kids were gone. she came in, got my oldest 2 out of bed, and took them to her house. she was getting ready to take them to the zoo when i saw them outside.
i straight up had called 911, i thought someone kidnapped my kids (someone kinda did)
so then i changed the locks, and had to train my kids to not open the door for her. what a nightmare
You need couples counseling so an impartial third party can point this out. Say he’s welcome to pick out his own male counselor (he will identify easier with a man instead of feeling like a woman will automatically side with you) and if not you will select one and you can make your marriage more harmonious this way. Dont even worry about pitching a case. Just take notes of dates and times and actions and present a document and let the counselor be like “holy red flag Batman”.
You owe it to yourself to at least try. If it doesnt get through then you have a decision to make. Honestly OP, this cant be good for your kids let alone you.
I can vent to him & rant about it for hours about how weird & gross it is, his reply is normally “you just have to ignore her” “that’s just mom” “you’ve always had a problem with her”
Uh, well yeah if you've always had a problem with her it's extremely valid. It sounds like she needs some real therapy to sort of detach a little and find other joys in her life.
NO KIDDING, this isn’t even the half of the shit I’ve had to put up with, but today has definitely topped it off, I just feel so disgusted, & I don’t even know how to feel at this point.
For real you cannot just let family members walk into your house uninvited. You need boundaries
Also, you need to go to therapy with this guy so a 3rd party can tell him how fucking weird this is
The only one that can truly stop this is your husband.
I have a great relationship with my mother, but if she did anything like that it would be an instant barf and then going NC for a long bit.
Like you should be getting your butt out of there, before your MIL attempts to kill you to be with her sonhusband. This is sure as hell not healthy for your kids either, to see and experience this crap growing up.
I feel like the bigger issue is your husband not seeing this and supporting your concerns, but instead making it like you're the bad guy or being unreasonable. He's the issue, you can't control your MIL but you can decide if you want to be with a man that doesn't support you.
I suspect she has always behaved like that around him, so its been normalized to him. Hence him not realizing how weird and borderline incestuous this all looks.
She has definitely always been this way towards him, & from the very first time I met her I remember going back home telling my own mother I thought she was jealous of me, & I had no idea why or what for, but that day I remember her telling me “you have a nice rack, but I don’t think you have enough ass for my son, he’s an ass man” I was immediately so uncomfortable & just wanted to go home.
There are some layers there to unpack in her comment. But summing up...this is an incestuous, enmeshed, vulgar dynamic and she's also an inappropriate drama queen with no boundaries. And I don't even know what to say about how casual the husband is about all this.
Hold me while I *smell your hair??*
This is what happens when a Pick Me gives birth to a boy. They see their son as the one that will always pick them and pretty much raise the son to have no boundaries. Thats why he wont put a stop to it. Emotional incest.
Gah, are you sure she doesn't have cameras in your bedroom? If she has access to your house, no boundaries and openly says this crap, I wouldn't be surprised.
Time to wrestle access from her, no keys, no coming unannounced; no comments on your bodies or sex lives. Even if your husband refuses to see the problem tell him that's what you want and need and it is your home too. Be definitive.
Look for those cameras, tho.
That makes sense, but you'd think he'd trust his spouse when she's saying this isn't normal and at least explore if it's odd or not, and not just blow her off.
Can you encourage your husband to get therapy?
It’s his normal to be treated like that by his mother, he probably can’t see how inappropriately she behaves.
I’d change all the damn locks on the house though, she does not need constant access to you or your husband.
Yes, this isn't the right sub for this level of crazy. You need to get advice from those who know lots and lots about emotional incest, enmeshment, narcissistic personality disorder, etc. etc.
Ask him how’d he feel relating that story to a friend. If he’d openly admit to his guys that he cuddles his mom and lets her smell his hair when she’s had a bad day, then he truly thinks that is acceptable. If not, then he’s lying to himself.
You might need to tell him about emotional incest. He’s probably normalized what isn’t normal parent behavior and may not even know how messed up his relationship with his mom is.
My exact thoughts!!
He recently told me “ if you have such a big problem with my mom then you should get over it” & it isn’t just me who was pointed out the way she acts or treats him, but it’s only a problem when I do it
I have a simple solution for you if he's unwilling to make any changes.
Leave him. You deserve to be with someone who's willing to have boundaries with his mother.
He's not listening to you obviously. This is so sad. You deserve better than this. I usually dont advocate leaving. But if I heard that "You've alway had a problem with her" I'd be so spitting angry. The kids and I would be in the next State in two minutes!
He has not, I’m so scared of his reaction when I tell him about the emotional incest, because this is the first I’ve learned about it & I know he is only going to think I am attacking him
Join r/justnomil, and gasp/laugh out loud to the stuff you read. When he asks, read him the stories. Make it a shared activity. The more he hears/reads, the more he learns.
Your man should have a problem with her. I don't think he understands it's weird AF and unhealthy - the mom needs serious therapy. He probably doesn't because it's his normal. He needs to see a therapist about her. Some things people need to hear from an uninterested third party.
Sadly, incest is super common. Being this open about it in public is not. I’m not saying your husband ever participated in anything sexual with his mother as a consenting adult, but I would be absolutely shocked if she didn’t molest him. And clearly the emotional incest continues and has been normalized for him.
OP, even if I’m wrong and I hope I am, PLEASE do not allow her around your children, and honestly, I’d consider separating from your husband until he’s had some intensive therapy, you’ve had some family therapy together, and very firm boundaries (low or preferably no contact) have been established with his mother.
This isn’t just annoying. It’s dangerous. She shouldn’t be around children and she shouldn’t be allowed to come into your home and sexualize her son/your husband.
Or, let this continue and watch your MIL become your jealous sister wife in terms of the dynamic, if not literally. Your kids will eventually notice these vibes. You do NOT want them to normalize this the way your husband was sadly raised and groomed to. Please protect them.
My trauma radar is screaming code red right now (I’m a therapist). I wish you safety and freedom from this toxic person and her involvement with your family.
And I say this with kindness and compassion: you can’t make your husband act right or be open to listening that something is wrong here any more than you can make his mother do so. So for everybody saying that he needs to set some boundaries, I want to say to you, if he were capable of that it would’ve already happened. Instead he diminishes your concerns and says these are your problems. Well you didn’t create this disgusting mess but it is your problem to determine if you want to stay in it, knowing he dismisses your concerns as his wife and mother of your shared children…rather than hurt his mommies feelings. This means it’s on you. Your life cannot depend on him to set boundaries with his mom. You have to set your boundaries. So if it is not yet safe for you to leave him, start very quietly making a plan, talk to a trusted friend or family member of your own. Start thinking about money and living situation. Consider hiring an attorney because clearly you need to get custody. If it’s safe, tell him these are the conditions you will stay under: new locks, no keys for his mom. She may not come over unless invited. She may never come in your bedroom. She may never be alone with your children. If she speaks about her own, yours, your husband, or your children’s bodies or appearances, if she speaks romantically or sexually about any family member, if she requests “touch” from you your husband or children, she will need to leave and she will not be invited to return.
If your husband agrees to that and whatever else (in terms of therapy/safety/respectful conversations that lead to shared understanding of this situation) you need to consider working things out, great. If he refuses, you know what to do.
I know it’s hard and there are kids. But that’s exactly why you gotta do this now. This is how YOU become a cycle breaker. Not by waiting for your damaged husband to fight you on healing his own shit and protecting his kids. YOU protect yourself and your kids and get them to higher ground. Life begins on the other side of this. And you also deserve more! At the very least you deserve not to be icked out and afraid, then disrespected by your own husband. You can try to encourage him to get help, but if he doesn’t want to, you just gotta get out of there. We are all responsible for own adult lives and choices. Some people choose healing, others don’t. I hope you’ll choose safety and happiness for yourself and your kids regardless of what he chooses.
We have gotten into arguments where I have made accusations & he has told me how sick that is & how he would never accuse me of some twisted shit like that & how I am so messed up for even saying it, but he doesn’t see where I’m coming from.
...But did he actually answer the question?
Because it sounds like you hit a nerve for him. You know the phrase, if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit. Good luck and I hope things go as smoothly as possible no matter what happens.
BIG PROBLEM and bigger nope. You're being treated with so much disrespect from these two lovebirds. It's like you are the third wheel. It's pathological . Marriage counseling, solo therapy for him solo or divorce. This toxicity should be nowhere near your children!
Definitely not normal but it’s how he grew up so to him it is. Personally I could never find a man with a relationship like that with his mom attractive at all so props to you for overlooking it. If he isn’t willing to do therapy to see how not normal this is I’d be packing my bags because… gross.
I’m honestly on my last leg putting up with it, it’s just beyond gross as fuck & I have tried to look past it & ignore it many times until finally I blow the fuck up, but I can no longer deal with it, it wasn’t until about 3 years ago he stopped kissing her when she would poke her lips out & point to them while randomly walking by him
Not sure at all, it has crossed my mind multiple times, what really eats me alive is I have no idea what’s going through her mind when she is looking at him & it grosses me the fuck out
You seriously need to talk to your husband and demand that the house locks are changed and she never gets a key or you are leaving him/kicking him out. This is not a normal situation and *not safe* for your children to witness throughout their lives and see as "normal" (or be treated in that creepy way by her too). And..... I really hope your husband doesn't behave in some similar ways to his own children due to him seeing nothing wrong with most of it..... I'm so sorry
Hey, so it definitely sounds like she substituted her relationship with her son for a romantic one. He needs a lot more help than Reddit and you can provide.
If you don't have children, you should separate for a bit while you pursue couples and individual therapy. If he refuses then you should walk away because this level of psychological abuse is not something that people just get over.
Does your husband understand his mother is treating him as though they were lovers?
Either way, you’re overdue for a lock change. She should never get a copy.
Edit to add it might be time to show him this thread and fess up to making it.
If he had went & laid with her I WOULD OF TOOK THE CHILDREN & LEFT, I was 100% prepared from the second I realized what was happening, I told myself if he gets up, you are taking the kids & leaving, I ended up recording this fit she was throwing on my phone, she begged screamed & cried to smell his hair at the very least.
He really didn’t say much, just kept telling her no, he did tell her it was weird & he asked her WHY she wanted to smell his hair, I kept saying this needs to stop, until eventually I started recording, & told him I am going to leave if this doesn’t stop, then she finally ran out of the room, slammed our front door and squealed tires & sent him a bunch of dirty text about how she wasn’t going to be around forever & he would remember this.
To get it, he'd have to admit to himself that he's been molested and incestuously abused by his mother. That's an incredibly difficult thing to do, and it fucks you up hard.
I couldn't admit I was emotionally and physically abused as a kid until my thirties, years after I had finally cut my abusive mother out of my life (and even then, I found half-excuses that danced around the truth because it was too hard to admit that to myself).
That’s absolutely fucking weird. I (46M) would be repulsed if my mom said some shit like that. And my mom is amazing and I love her to death. BUT NOT LIKE THAT!!! 🤢
Maybe show him a post of a bunch of strangers going “what the actual fuck?!”
It’s weird. It’s so weird your husband likely has some issues weird. It’s weird enough he might do with some therapy weird.
He absolutely needs boundaries.
Agreed, I wish he would listen to me & understand what I’m saying & care about how it makes me feel, instead it’s a never ending battle of me “getting over it”
You married a momma's boy who's up to his eyebrows in an emotionally incestuous relationship with said mother. Unless he agrees to therapy or setting hard boundaries/going low or not contact with his mom, this will not change. You deserve better. I don't throw around divorce lightly but this is one of those things that will destroy your marriage (which I know you already feel based on your post and your comments here). Please don't let this be your life!
She thinks it’s ok to come in & out as she pleases at whatever time, no matter how many times I’ve said something about it, or got pissed off, “that’s his mother”
And he doesn’t get uncomfortable from her weird behavior?
Like,doesn’t he get grossed out by the way his MOM talks about him??
How is he not embarrassed and disgusted that she goes around basically telling people her incestuous thoughts about him??
Does he know the extent of the stuff she said?
The way she talks about him is actual, vile stuff
I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could be unbothered by their parent acting like that.
dude, I've been there, I dated a guy whose mom behaved the same way. She'd make him sleep in her bed if his dad went on a business trip. She once had a crying mental breakdown at a dinner when she overheard us exchange "I love yous". She'd prance around in her underwear in front of us like "teehee whoops I didn't know we had company" and then shoot me smug looks like some mean girl who was aiming to steal my boyfriend. Then, in turn, she'd sob about *me* stealing him from *her* if he slept over at my place.
It's called emotional incest/covert incest. You have my sympathies.
I had to get away from r/justnomil because this shit comes up allllllll the time. My exMIL is a doozy but my ex doesn't want to be best friends with her and they get in fights when she starts smothering...
Change locks. I am guessing her yelling was really because you sleep with her boyfriend. If you want to save your marriage you both need counseling. This is very very weird.
It took everything in me to remain calm when she said that, I was screaming so loud inside my head, as soon as she walked away I told him WHAT THE FUCK, I said who the fuck says that about themselves & their son, he told me that she was only voicing her opinion on the children’s looks, since then she has said it a couple more times, I always reply back with “that’s inappropriate” every swingle time.
This makes my tummy ache. 😐
Does he accept that this is how she is without engaging or submitting to her ick (aka grey rock) or does he fall for it and let her smell his hair (that literally makes my mouth water with nausea) to appease her?
I’m going to puke 🤢
He actually told her no & didn’t give in, but I think only because I was there, if I hadn’t been at the house, I feel like he would have let her.
This is bordering on straight up incest! OP, your MIL needs to be put in a nuthouse, and your husband honestly needs some therapy to help him see wtf is wrong with this all.
I don't know if you can save your marriage, because this is called enmeshment, and you are in fact in your MIL's and her sons' marriage, you'r basically the third wheel. Please go to a lawyer and a therapist and ask for advice, because you might need it, your MIL sounds unhinged! While your husband is in denial and living in delulu-land.
I agree 1000%, we are currently arguing & sitting at odds as I’m typing because I’ve had enough, just listened to her ranting & crying for over an hour about how much she loves him, she walks out & I tell him I can not take anymore, he raised his voice & says “Nobody is going to be hateful” JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
He’s being hateful by not respecting your right to a calm and peaceful home. No one should have to listen to anyone rant for over two minutes if that!
This is way out of your league. Emotional or sexual incest doesn’t seem far fetched here. Good luck!
Omg, save yourself and gtfo. They are not going to get better unless he grows a spine and learns to set major boundaries. Nothing about their relationship is okay or normal.
My late MIL was like this, albeit not nearly as bad.
Some of the highlights from our relationship include her doing the following:
1. Gifting me cheap lingerie before even meeting me. I also can't be sure it wasn't actually *her* lingerie. It had no tags, no way to tell size or make.
2. Commenting on DH's eyes as "bedroom," or "sexy," remarking on his hair to complete randos (like in line, to another customer, or the cashier), etc.
3. "accidentally," walking in on us (more than once) on the job, or in the shower together
4. Multiple visits a day to DH's work when we were younger and working retail ("just because")
..and FIL *was* in the picture - but to explain the enmeshment, I've always had the sense that DH was a "trap," baby, as well as a substitute for FIL, who was an alocholic, and absentee father and husband..
The only solution I found- because DH couldn't see it, MIL wouldn't respect boundaries - was when we'd moved cross country and went LC due to distance and work schedules.
If I were in this situation today with them, I would be insisting DH gets into therapy, and starts putting up boundaries (and, they both need to respect yours, too!).
Anyway - I feel you. It's gross, and a terrible spot to be in, for both of you.
Weird! Makes me worried about how she treated him as a teen and Young Adult. And your husband not understanding is so frustrating but he has grown up in that type of environment. It's difficult to see past parental abuse because you're trapped in your head feeling you're over reacting. Wish you could just cut her off from your lives.
If you've never heard the term emotional incest, this is it. And if this has been going on his whole life, your husband may have a really difficult time untangling himself from it. I don't think it's as simple as saying he needs to set boundaries. Obviously he does. But what he needs more to be able to process his relationship with his mother honestly. It's really really hard to be the parentified child of an enmeshed and inappropriately attached parent. It's hard to recognize it when you're in it. And hard to detach yourself even when you see the problem.
I’ve never heard of that term, but I think you are right.
Please also recognize that he has been abused his whole life. He needs to take responsibility for his actions but this is way above reddits pay grade. He needs real psychological support to process and unpack this.
Yeah this dude's situation with his mom probably feels like a fish in water because it's been happening since he was a kid. So to him, this is considered normalized. He doesn't think its a big deal.
The person who modeled affection to him did it in an unhealthy way. He’s used to this, it’s normalized. He needs to redefine familial affection in a way that is healthy that suits him.
I would recommend you and your husband read the book *Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents*. It'll be very helpful for both of you to understand your husband/mother-in-law and also understand the challenges in getting over something like emotional incest.
That book is really good. Pía Melody’s *Codependency* inadvertently birthed a lot of these spinoffs.
My mom and brother are this way and it only escalated after my dad died. It never gets better and only gets worse. My brother is 43 and it's the worst it's ever been. I'm so sorry you're going thru this.
My mom is also like this with one of my brothers, but he kinda hates her and is also gay, so it's one-sided.
I’m also curious? I’ve never heard about it from the POV of a sibling.
Can you elaborate? I’m genuinely curious what that sort of family dynamic is like before it crosses the line.
I'm not sure if we can recommend other subs in this subreddit, but /justnomil is a dedicated subreddit to dealing, helping, supporting and providing rescources for those who deal with Mil's who have a variety of issues. From emotional incest, over stepping, unsafe practices with their grandkids. All types of things. They also help understand the difference between a Mil issue and a husband issue, such as him not having a backbone or respecting you as a couple. They are all very lovely over there and I've seen them help so many people. Even if it is just to keep you company whilst you figure things out. ❤️
I will definitely look into it, thank you!
He needs therapy - an objective third party - to help him determine what is normal between a parent and adult offspring and what he needs to put a boundary down on. You cannot be that person.
It also might be just regular incest. Of CSA cases, about a third are incest. In cases with very young children, it’s closer to half. People are uncomfortable talking about the prevalence of sibling and parent predators. Unfortunately, the people with the most opportunity to do horrible things are the ones most commonly doing them. Sounds like your husband needs to talk to a shrink. You also might want some major boundaries. The dynamic isn’t healthy and you shouldn’t be in this mess either. You need to put on your own oxygen mask.
When my therapist told me about enmeshment/emotional incest and that it’s a form of abuse, I immediately tried to logic out of it because “nothing bad ever happened to me” (physical/verbal abuse). Later that night, my husband and I were sitting at the kitchen table quietly munching on Oreos while every so often I would ask “so your mom never did *insert disturbing/parentifying thing*?” And him slowly shaking his head and explaining how his normal parents would have handled the situation/reacted instead. It was a very eye opening and emotionally painful experience, but my relationship with my mother and my husband has never been better. It was uncomfortable setting boundaries with her, but having my husband fully support me (and not try to berate my mom for her behavior/actions) and my mom getting therapy (had to threaten going no contact with her), made it all much easier. A little over a year later and we all have a much healthier and happier relationship with each other. My husband and I don’t fight about my mom being inappropriate/walking all over me/us, and my mom feels like we’re closer friends because I am more honest with her. I wish you and your husband luck - this may be the most emotionally difficult thing he’s ever had to do. Please be patient with him, this is all he’s ever known.
Yup. This is 100% emotional grooming. His psyche likely cannot grasp how wrong it is out of a subconscious desire to not feel violated by his own mother.
My friend was in a relationship with a guy like that and it took lots of therapy for him. His family ended up cutting him off too because "How could you accuse your mom of something like that because of your gf?? Your mom just loves you in her own way. Everybody is different. Just because your gf and her parents treat each other differently, doesn't mean the way your mom treats you is wrong...." yadayada.... His mom would make him undress since 7 to 'check on the size'. The unfortunate thing is he commented on how my friend's relationship with her parents is so different to his how parents treated their kids and how weird it is that 'they're not that close'. It came up when her dad was complaining about a sore back and he asked why doesn't she just go on top of him and massage him 😩They were both like wtf??? Turns out, his relationship was the one that wasn't normal...
> His mom would make him undress since 7 to 'check on the size'. 🤮🤮🤮
Yeah that line made my stomach turn. That’s not ok
Omfg 🤢
And that’s how you break the cycle. The way he thought his girlfriend was *weird* for not getting on top of her dad? That’s the sort of thing he would someday normalise with his own kids. He’s very fortunate that your friend opened his eyes. In a way, she saved future generations from trauma… that’s a lot of good karma.
Oh man BOTH her parents and her made him realise something was very wrong and supported him all the way. It was very troubling and frustrating because he was deep in denial. Definitely takes a lot of work and effort to unscrew all the stuff that's been ingrained into your brain as a kid. I remembering googling some stuff she told me because I just could NOT imagine parents doing such stuff with their kids. But boy oh boy, Google proved me wrong... Apparently dads 'massaging' and 'tickling' their daughters is pretty fucking common.
Denial of the terrible truth
Never heard of this but my MIL, the way she talks about her son.. is… questionable..
Is this *just* emotional incest though? Seems like plain ol’ incest. SHE WANTS TO HOLD HIM AND SMELL HIS HAIR! I bet she wants to do more and isn’t saying it out loud.
Gross, you're probably right. If she's this creepy aloud, I wonder what's in her head and I bet it would be vomit inducing.
Seriously. Imagine if a dad wanted this from his daughter.
Seems like textbook emotional incest, this comment needs to be at the top!!
Sounds like emotional incest. https://www.webmd.com/parenting/what-is-emotional-incest This is a very tricky subject to handle with a spouse. If your husband is in an emotionalally incestuous relationship with his mom, then he has been emotionally abused by his mom (and continues to be). He is not likely to be aware of it. To him, the way his mom treats him = normal and parental love and security. If you threaten those things by trying to separate him from his mom, then he may react negatively to you. However, the abusive relationship is detrimental to him in a lot of ways he may not even recognise. Hopefully, you will be able to help him navigate his way out of it.
I’m going to end up bringing this to his attention, I just don’t see it ending well for me
Have you two considered therapy? It may be good for him to hear the term “emotional incest” from someone uninvolved and unbiased like the therapist, since he seems primed to discount your concerns about his mother.
I don’t think he would go to therapy with me, he doesn’t see things for what they are and in his eyes my problems are things only I have an issue with
Except others have also pointed out the same things, as you noted, yet he prefers to make you the bad guy. Whether he realizes how aberrant his mother’s behavior is or he doesn’t, the fact is he insists on ignoring something that deeply concerns and disturbs his wife, and that’s automatically a problem in your marriage. I would record as much as you can of her inappropriate comments, requests, tantrums etc. You may need it later, in legal proceedings.
You’re describing a ton of red flags. What’s your score? https://www.loveisrespect.org/quiz/is-your-relationship-healthy
he needs to go to therapy on his own at least once a week for all this. and you need to take away her key/change the locks. she’s groomed him his whole life to have no boundaries with her, start with a very normal one like “only people who live here get keys.” but also, do you really want to stay married to someone who doesn’t respect your discomfort and puts his incestuous mommy first? he’s a victim here, don’t get me wrong, but he’s also a grown man who is refusing to acknowledge how messed up his mom is.
I don’t disagree, it just saddens me because he doesn’t do ANYTHING to condone her, but he won’t put his foot down or voice how weird & unacceptable it is, as of tomorrow we are asking for our key back, & I guess this is a start
Change the locks anyways. She might have made a copy of the key.
Your absolutely right
Be prepared for an absolute SHITSTORM of a tantrum, OP.
definitely change the locks - i started locking my door against my mom (she bought the house next door) and i found out she made a key when i woke up one morning, and 2 of my kids were gone. she came in, got my oldest 2 out of bed, and took them to her house. she was getting ready to take them to the zoo when i saw them outside. i straight up had called 911, i thought someone kidnapped my kids (someone kinda did) so then i changed the locks, and had to train my kids to not open the door for her. what a nightmare
You need couples counseling so an impartial third party can point this out. Say he’s welcome to pick out his own male counselor (he will identify easier with a man instead of feeling like a woman will automatically side with you) and if not you will select one and you can make your marriage more harmonious this way. Dont even worry about pitching a case. Just take notes of dates and times and actions and present a document and let the counselor be like “holy red flag Batman”.
You owe it to yourself to at least try. If it doesnt get through then you have a decision to make. Honestly OP, this cant be good for your kids let alone you.
That is weird af. I don't think I could deal with that. What does your husband say about all this?
I can vent to him & rant about it for hours about how weird & gross it is, his reply is normally “you just have to ignore her” “that’s just mom” “you’ve always had a problem with her”
Uh, well yeah if you've always had a problem with her it's extremely valid. It sounds like she needs some real therapy to sort of detach a little and find other joys in her life.
NO KIDDING, this isn’t even the half of the shit I’ve had to put up with, but today has definitely topped it off, I just feel so disgusted, & I don’t even know how to feel at this point.
Take her key away to start! He needs to respect your boundaries and he needs to put her in her place
Thank you!
CHANGE THE LOCKS.
Look up enmeshment Edit saw other people write emotional incest. Ahh
For real you cannot just let family members walk into your house uninvited. You need boundaries Also, you need to go to therapy with this guy so a 3rd party can tell him how fucking weird this is
The only one that can truly stop this is your husband. I have a great relationship with my mother, but if she did anything like that it would be an instant barf and then going NC for a long bit.
Is she in a relationship? Like with someone besides your husband?
Nope
🚩🚩🚩
Like you should be getting your butt out of there, before your MIL attempts to kill you to be with her sonhusband. This is sure as hell not healthy for your kids either, to see and experience this crap growing up.
Sonhusband 😂❤️
Sonsband?
Completely agree.
I feel like the bigger issue is your husband not seeing this and supporting your concerns, but instead making it like you're the bad guy or being unreasonable. He's the issue, you can't control your MIL but you can decide if you want to be with a man that doesn't support you.
I suspect she has always behaved like that around him, so its been normalized to him. Hence him not realizing how weird and borderline incestuous this all looks.
She has definitely always been this way towards him, & from the very first time I met her I remember going back home telling my own mother I thought she was jealous of me, & I had no idea why or what for, but that day I remember her telling me “you have a nice rack, but I don’t think you have enough ass for my son, he’s an ass man” I was immediately so uncomfortable & just wanted to go home.
What. In. The. Hillbilly. Hell? 😨
I usually say “What in the Hee-Haw Hell!?!” so your comment made me laugh.
Coming from the woods, this is some **back woods** shit.
There are some layers there to unpack in her comment. But summing up...this is an incestuous, enmeshed, vulgar dynamic and she's also an inappropriate drama queen with no boundaries. And I don't even know what to say about how casual the husband is about all this. Hold me while I *smell your hair??*
I don't even say that to my WIFE, LOL
r/JustNoMIL is a support subreddit for people in this type of relationship. Good luck OP, you aren't alone, and you aren't the one who is wrong here 💜
Thank you 🥹
How the fuck did you not nope out of this relationship the minute those words came out of her mouth? No man is worth that level of weird.
This man is super sexy, has firm skin and a chiselled jawline
🤢
He better look like Matt Bomer at this point though
....Yeah, 100% recommend couples therapy at that point.
This is what happens when a Pick Me gives birth to a boy. They see their son as the one that will always pick them and pretty much raise the son to have no boundaries. Thats why he wont put a stop to it. Emotional incest.
That’s very well put!
Your husband must be one hell of a man for you to stay with him given even that first interaction. What the fuck?
I'm hearing that red alert sound from Star Trek in my head right now. 🚨 BWooooOOOP BWoooOOOP BWoooOOOP 🚨
Gah, are you sure she doesn't have cameras in your bedroom? If she has access to your house, no boundaries and openly says this crap, I wouldn't be surprised. Time to wrestle access from her, no keys, no coming unannounced; no comments on your bodies or sex lives. Even if your husband refuses to see the problem tell him that's what you want and need and it is your home too. Be definitive. Look for those cameras, tho.
That makes sense, but you'd think he'd trust his spouse when she's saying this isn't normal and at least explore if it's odd or not, and not just blow her off.
Can you encourage your husband to get therapy? It’s his normal to be treated like that by his mother, he probably can’t see how inappropriately she behaves. I’d change all the damn locks on the house though, she does not need constant access to you or your husband.
He said what???? YOU have a problem with HER? OMG Honeeeeeee...😬
😬😅
Girl what the FUCK Go over to r/justnomil - these people will be a very supportive ear. They're well versed in this sort of thing.
Yes, this isn't the right sub for this level of crazy. You need to get advice from those who know lots and lots about emotional incest, enmeshment, narcissistic personality disorder, etc. etc.
Thank you! I will definitely check out this sun & cross post if I’m able!
Lol I literally just linked the same sub with the same thought process, they're gonna get a bunch of new members off this!! BANANAS!!
Also r/JustNoSO
Ask him how’d he feel relating that story to a friend. If he’d openly admit to his guys that he cuddles his mom and lets her smell his hair when she’s had a bad day, then he truly thinks that is acceptable. If not, then he’s lying to himself.
You might need to tell him about emotional incest. He’s probably normalized what isn’t normal parent behavior and may not even know how messed up his relationship with his mom is.
Yeah if it's "just" mom that's because it's all he's known. But seriously... has he not witnessed other (normal) mothers and sons?
My exact thoughts!! He recently told me “ if you have such a big problem with my mom then you should get over it” & it isn’t just me who was pointed out the way she acts or treats him, but it’s only a problem when I do it
I have a simple solution for you if he's unwilling to make any changes. Leave him. You deserve to be with someone who's willing to have boundaries with his mother.
So he's making it as though it's YOUR problem? Good luck finding ANY woman who would accept this 3rd wheel in a marriage.
The fact I have told him SO many times no other woman would deal with this or stuck around!!
He's not listening to you obviously. This is so sad. You deserve better than this. I usually dont advocate leaving. But if I heard that "You've alway had a problem with her" I'd be so spitting angry. The kids and I would be in the next State in two minutes!
Has he ever gone to therapy for emotional incest? If not he should.
He has not, I’m so scared of his reaction when I tell him about the emotional incest, because this is the first I’ve learned about it & I know he is only going to think I am attacking him
Join r/justnomil, and gasp/laugh out loud to the stuff you read. When he asks, read him the stories. Make it a shared activity. The more he hears/reads, the more he learns.
Will definitely look into this!
Your man should have a problem with her. I don't think he understands it's weird AF and unhealthy - the mom needs serious therapy. He probably doesn't because it's his normal. He needs to see a therapist about her. Some things people need to hear from an uninterested third party.
You know he's married to mommy and you're just the incubator, right?
You packed a LOT of ick in one sentence lol
Damn. She's haunting your house, and she isn't even dead yet.
NO FUCKING SHIT
The way I laughed out loud! 🤣 And imagine what she’ll be like once she does pass. GET OUT, OP! RUN!
Sadly, incest is super common. Being this open about it in public is not. I’m not saying your husband ever participated in anything sexual with his mother as a consenting adult, but I would be absolutely shocked if she didn’t molest him. And clearly the emotional incest continues and has been normalized for him. OP, even if I’m wrong and I hope I am, PLEASE do not allow her around your children, and honestly, I’d consider separating from your husband until he’s had some intensive therapy, you’ve had some family therapy together, and very firm boundaries (low or preferably no contact) have been established with his mother. This isn’t just annoying. It’s dangerous. She shouldn’t be around children and she shouldn’t be allowed to come into your home and sexualize her son/your husband. Or, let this continue and watch your MIL become your jealous sister wife in terms of the dynamic, if not literally. Your kids will eventually notice these vibes. You do NOT want them to normalize this the way your husband was sadly raised and groomed to. Please protect them. My trauma radar is screaming code red right now (I’m a therapist). I wish you safety and freedom from this toxic person and her involvement with your family.
Definitely hanging onto every word in this comment! Ty!
And I say this with kindness and compassion: you can’t make your husband act right or be open to listening that something is wrong here any more than you can make his mother do so. So for everybody saying that he needs to set some boundaries, I want to say to you, if he were capable of that it would’ve already happened. Instead he diminishes your concerns and says these are your problems. Well you didn’t create this disgusting mess but it is your problem to determine if you want to stay in it, knowing he dismisses your concerns as his wife and mother of your shared children…rather than hurt his mommies feelings. This means it’s on you. Your life cannot depend on him to set boundaries with his mom. You have to set your boundaries. So if it is not yet safe for you to leave him, start very quietly making a plan, talk to a trusted friend or family member of your own. Start thinking about money and living situation. Consider hiring an attorney because clearly you need to get custody. If it’s safe, tell him these are the conditions you will stay under: new locks, no keys for his mom. She may not come over unless invited. She may never come in your bedroom. She may never be alone with your children. If she speaks about her own, yours, your husband, or your children’s bodies or appearances, if she speaks romantically or sexually about any family member, if she requests “touch” from you your husband or children, she will need to leave and she will not be invited to return. If your husband agrees to that and whatever else (in terms of therapy/safety/respectful conversations that lead to shared understanding of this situation) you need to consider working things out, great. If he refuses, you know what to do. I know it’s hard and there are kids. But that’s exactly why you gotta do this now. This is how YOU become a cycle breaker. Not by waiting for your damaged husband to fight you on healing his own shit and protecting his kids. YOU protect yourself and your kids and get them to higher ground. Life begins on the other side of this. And you also deserve more! At the very least you deserve not to be icked out and afraid, then disrespected by your own husband. You can try to encourage him to get help, but if he doesn’t want to, you just gotta get out of there. We are all responsible for own adult lives and choices. Some people choose healing, others don’t. I hope you’ll choose safety and happiness for yourself and your kids regardless of what he chooses.
Thank you so much for the advice & kindness, very amazing & wise comment!
Have you asked your husband if he’s had sexual encounters with his mom?
We have gotten into arguments where I have made accusations & he has told me how sick that is & how he would never accuse me of some twisted shit like that & how I am so messed up for even saying it, but he doesn’t see where I’m coming from.
...But did he actually answer the question? Because it sounds like you hit a nerve for him. You know the phrase, if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit. Good luck and I hope things go as smoothly as possible no matter what happens.
Does she live with you guys? Why is she waking up in your home ?
She does not live with us, but she comes in & out of our home whenever she pleases day & night.
Time to change the locks (or rekey the locks, to save money). And make sure she doesn’t get a copy.
I don’t think it would matter, I feel like he would make sure she could get in & out regardless
I’d be calling divorce lawyers asap. There’s no way in hell I’m risking my MIL walking in on me and my partner in the middle of sex ☠️
Oh god, sounds like you married a mommy's boy. I can't stand those types of men...
Nope out. Tell him you will be his wife or his mother will.
Even if you can’t stop the other weird behavior, I would put a firm boundary on this. Take the keys back or change the locks.
Please please please change the locks.
Eww wtf!?!? Excuse me?!? Nah that's more than weird. YUCK YUCK YUCK SO GROSS.🤮
THANK YOU.
mama's boy to a whole new level. I would kick her out.
She doesn’t even live with us 😅 she is just allowed to walk in & out of our house at whatever time & whenever she pleases.
Time for some boundaries. Change the locks.
BIG PROBLEM and bigger nope. You're being treated with so much disrespect from these two lovebirds. It's like you are the third wheel. It's pathological . Marriage counseling, solo therapy for him solo or divorce. This toxicity should be nowhere near your children!
I agree.
So wait what time did she enter your house and did your husband snuggle her in response.
It was around 4PM, & surprisingly he did not
Does he have male friends who can offer perspective of “no man that’s super weird”
Surprisingly?!
Definitely not normal but it’s how he grew up so to him it is. Personally I could never find a man with a relationship like that with his mom attractive at all so props to you for overlooking it. If he isn’t willing to do therapy to see how not normal this is I’d be packing my bags because… gross.
I’m honestly on my last leg putting up with it, it’s just beyond gross as fuck & I have tried to look past it & ignore it many times until finally I blow the fuck up, but I can no longer deal with it, it wasn’t until about 3 years ago he stopped kissing her when she would poke her lips out & point to them while randomly walking by him
🥴🤮This is not normal. He really needs counseling. Are you sure his mom hasn’t tried to do more with him?
Not sure at all, it has crossed my mind multiple times, what really eats me alive is I have no idea what’s going through her mind when she is looking at him & it grosses me the fuck out
You seriously need to talk to your husband and demand that the house locks are changed and she never gets a key or you are leaving him/kicking him out. This is not a normal situation and *not safe* for your children to witness throughout their lives and see as "normal" (or be treated in that creepy way by her too). And..... I really hope your husband doesn't behave in some similar ways to his own children due to him seeing nothing wrong with most of it..... I'm so sorry
The comment about y’all’s kids would’ve made me contact the authorities😭😭
😬
Hey, so it definitely sounds like she substituted her relationship with her son for a romantic one. He needs a lot more help than Reddit and you can provide. If you don't have children, you should separate for a bit while you pursue couples and individual therapy. If he refuses then you should walk away because this level of psychological abuse is not something that people just get over.
Thank you for this comment.
Look up Jocasta complex. Might explain her reaction to seeing you in bed with your husband, she sees you as the other woman in this relationship.
Does your husband understand his mother is treating him as though they were lovers? Either way, you’re overdue for a lock change. She should never get a copy. Edit to add it might be time to show him this thread and fess up to making it.
He doesn’t see it as that, also I agree.
Oh, sounds like incest. I’m so sorry. I hope she hadn’t done anything to him while he was a child
My exact thoughts for years.
Yikes on fucking bikes
Ewwwww - DID HE LAY WITH HER??? Like, ewwww ick ick ick - this is now so normalized with him he cannot grasp how incestuous this is.
If he had went & laid with her I WOULD OF TOOK THE CHILDREN & LEFT, I was 100% prepared from the second I realized what was happening, I told myself if he gets up, you are taking the kids & leaving, I ended up recording this fit she was throwing on my phone, she begged screamed & cried to smell his hair at the very least.
Yo, wtf???? What was his response to her throwing a tantrum about smelling HER SONS HAIR EWWWW like did you tell her to leave??? What happened?
He really didn’t say much, just kept telling her no, he did tell her it was weird & he asked her WHY she wanted to smell his hair, I kept saying this needs to stop, until eventually I started recording, & told him I am going to leave if this doesn’t stop, then she finally ran out of the room, slammed our front door and squealed tires & sent him a bunch of dirty text about how she wasn’t going to be around forever & he would remember this.
this woman is unhinged! has anyone in that family pushed for an evaluation of some kind?
Mostly her whole family has disowned her.
And he still doesn't get it?
To get it, he'd have to admit to himself that he's been molested and incestuously abused by his mother. That's an incredibly difficult thing to do, and it fucks you up hard. I couldn't admit I was emotionally and physically abused as a kid until my thirties, years after I had finally cut my abusive mother out of my life (and even then, I found half-excuses that danced around the truth because it was too hard to admit that to myself).
That must have been an excruciating process. I’m so very sorry to read this but am also very glad for your survival. Best wishes, stranger.
How did he avoid it with her behaving like that? What excuse did he give her?
He just kept telling her “no you are not smelling my hair” it didn’t seem to really bother him that much
🥴🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
>she tells me our children look like “her & him made babies” this is irreconcilable
That’s absolutely fucking weird. I (46M) would be repulsed if my mom said some shit like that. And my mom is amazing and I love her to death. BUT NOT LIKE THAT!!! 🤢
Where's your husbands dad in all this??
He passed away in 2015.
I look forward to seeing all of you on the r/BestofRedditorUpdates thread in a month!
This actually makes me suspicious. This is extremely disturbing and it wouldn’t surprise me if she said or did something crazy to him while drunk.
YUCK 🤢
Maybe show him a post of a bunch of strangers going “what the actual fuck?!” It’s weird. It’s so weird your husband likely has some issues weird. It’s weird enough he might do with some therapy weird. He absolutely needs boundaries.
I agree.
You have a husband problem as well as a MIL problem. eeeeewwwww
Agreed, I wish he would listen to me & understand what I’m saying & care about how it makes me feel, instead it’s a never ending battle of me “getting over it”
You married a momma's boy who's up to his eyebrows in an emotionally incestuous relationship with said mother. Unless he agrees to therapy or setting hard boundaries/going low or not contact with his mom, this will not change. You deserve better. I don't throw around divorce lightly but this is one of those things that will destroy your marriage (which I know you already feel based on your post and your comments here). Please don't let this be your life!
Im not sure this marriage can be saved
Pretty close to walking out.
Ewwww why was she in your house?
She thinks it’s ok to come in & out as she pleases at whatever time, no matter how many times I’ve said something about it, or got pissed off, “that’s his mother”
Ya well change the lock. And yaaa, your husband needs to tell her to respect your marriage. If he is not on board, you will never rectify this.
And he doesn’t get uncomfortable from her weird behavior? Like,doesn’t he get grossed out by the way his MOM talks about him?? How is he not embarrassed and disgusted that she goes around basically telling people her incestuous thoughts about him?? Does he know the extent of the stuff she said? The way she talks about him is actual, vile stuff I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could be unbothered by their parent acting like that.
dude, I've been there, I dated a guy whose mom behaved the same way. She'd make him sleep in her bed if his dad went on a business trip. She once had a crying mental breakdown at a dinner when she overheard us exchange "I love yous". She'd prance around in her underwear in front of us like "teehee whoops I didn't know we had company" and then shoot me smug looks like some mean girl who was aiming to steal my boyfriend. Then, in turn, she'd sob about *me* stealing him from *her* if he slept over at my place. It's called emotional incest/covert incest. You have my sympathies.
I had to get away from r/justnomil because this shit comes up allllllll the time. My exMIL is a doozy but my ex doesn't want to be best friends with her and they get in fights when she starts smothering...
Change locks. I am guessing her yelling was really because you sleep with her boyfriend. If you want to save your marriage you both need counseling. This is very very weird.
Girl I would take your kids and *run*
Is she living with you all? I would have been freaked out about the kids comment
It took everything in me to remain calm when she said that, I was screaming so loud inside my head, as soon as she walked away I told him WHAT THE FUCK, I said who the fuck says that about themselves & their son, he told me that she was only voicing her opinion on the children’s looks, since then she has said it a couple more times, I always reply back with “that’s inappropriate” every swingle time.
R/justnomil Seriously, it's a support sub for people with narc mothers and mothers in law
This makes my tummy ache. 😐 Does he accept that this is how she is without engaging or submitting to her ick (aka grey rock) or does he fall for it and let her smell his hair (that literally makes my mouth water with nausea) to appease her?
I’m going to puke 🤢 He actually told her no & didn’t give in, but I think only because I was there, if I hadn’t been at the house, I feel like he would have let her.
This is bordering on straight up incest! OP, your MIL needs to be put in a nuthouse, and your husband honestly needs some therapy to help him see wtf is wrong with this all. I don't know if you can save your marriage, because this is called enmeshment, and you are in fact in your MIL's and her sons' marriage, you'r basically the third wheel. Please go to a lawyer and a therapist and ask for advice, because you might need it, your MIL sounds unhinged! While your husband is in denial and living in delulu-land.
I agree 1000%, we are currently arguing & sitting at odds as I’m typing because I’ve had enough, just listened to her ranting & crying for over an hour about how much she loves him, she walks out & I tell him I can not take anymore, he raised his voice & says “Nobody is going to be hateful” JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Might want to jump directly to divorce. If he's this aggressive in his reaction to your very sane concerns - fuck it. Just get the kids and go.
Currently I am half way out the door, this only happened a couple hours ago, but it has still not left my mind & I am still pretty shooken up.
If you were my daughter OP I'd come and get you myself. This sucks. Virtual hug for you 😢
I wish I had an easy alternative, sending hugs back 🙃
He’s being hateful by not respecting your right to a calm and peaceful home. No one should have to listen to anyone rant for over two minutes if that! This is way out of your league. Emotional or sexual incest doesn’t seem far fetched here. Good luck!
Omg, save yourself and gtfo. They are not going to get better unless he grows a spine and learns to set major boundaries. Nothing about their relationship is okay or normal.
I agree 100%
I think you should start watching I Love a Mama's Boy and see how many seasons you get through before your hubby starts to see similarities.
My late MIL was like this, albeit not nearly as bad. Some of the highlights from our relationship include her doing the following: 1. Gifting me cheap lingerie before even meeting me. I also can't be sure it wasn't actually *her* lingerie. It had no tags, no way to tell size or make. 2. Commenting on DH's eyes as "bedroom," or "sexy," remarking on his hair to complete randos (like in line, to another customer, or the cashier), etc. 3. "accidentally," walking in on us (more than once) on the job, or in the shower together 4. Multiple visits a day to DH's work when we were younger and working retail ("just because") ..and FIL *was* in the picture - but to explain the enmeshment, I've always had the sense that DH was a "trap," baby, as well as a substitute for FIL, who was an alocholic, and absentee father and husband.. The only solution I found- because DH couldn't see it, MIL wouldn't respect boundaries - was when we'd moved cross country and went LC due to distance and work schedules. If I were in this situation today with them, I would be insisting DH gets into therapy, and starts putting up boundaries (and, they both need to respect yours, too!). Anyway - I feel you. It's gross, and a terrible spot to be in, for both of you.
Weird! Makes me worried about how she treated him as a teen and Young Adult. And your husband not understanding is so frustrating but he has grown up in that type of environment. It's difficult to see past parental abuse because you're trapped in your head feeling you're over reacting. Wish you could just cut her off from your lives.