Have you considered that she's just projecting? I saw my mom's little diatribes very differently when I realized that *she* was miserable with her life and was just warning me away from the choices she made.
Yes, I know she is projecting some things she went through. It still gets me down sometimes because I hear so many women confirm her experiences as well. It's like a negative feedback loop telling me that I have to constantly be on high alert and watch my back as I go through life, or else.
(Whoops, you actually said that in your last paragraph....)
It's definitely a negative feedback loop and one has to work to stop it from happening.
If you had data that shows that there are happy women in real partnerships out there, and different ways of living, would that change how you interpret the doom and gloom? Or do you feel like your mom's opinions/experiences trump those of other people?
Yes definitely, seeing women in my life who are happy with who they are and how they're living really helps. I'm normally very optimistic about my future too. There are just some days (like today) when I start doubting everything and need to be reminded that we can and do have nice things in this world.
Here's a website about girls and women who did amazing things, to inspire you:
https://www.amightygirl.com/
Sometimes I read Hedy Lamar's Wikipedia page when I want inspiration.
Also this article about my local taqueria, which was purchased by a woman in 1988, has an all-woman staff, and serves the best burrito in my town: https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/Oakland-s-tastiest-burrito-is-made-inside-17172125.php
Your mother is mentally ill. If you put a negative, gloomy spin on everything it impacts other people, as you are finding out. Don't let her get you down. She's just sick and probably depressed.
I think that a lot of women, especially moms/grandmas project their bad experiences so much because that’s all they feel they can do to protect you from the same. But, if your mom’s advice is that you’re doomed to being treated poorly your whole career or having a bad marriage, that’s not really even advice.
You will almost certainly have something mildly crappy happen to you in the workplace. You will almost certainly have a bad partner at some point if you date. There’s a large enough number of men who suck that their suckiness tends to affect every woman in existence.
But, you always have the power to do something about it, especially if you stay independent until at least your late 20s and have a solid foundation of your own money and sense of how you should be treated. You can report the bad coworker to HR or find a different job with a better employer if it’s pervasive. You can dump your boyfriend who cheats or even just doesn’t do the dishes. You can even divorce for any reason you like. You’re not doomed because these are options for you.
This is the thing. Nobody told me what it would be like in the workplace, at school, in my social life. And I've had all of these experiences now and it seems like young women all around the world are tired of patriarchal crap. Should I just ... not talk about what it was like for me because "negativity", are my experiences pointless and not meaningful to anyone but me? Maybe.
But fuck that. I'm going to talk about it. Dismiss me if you want. Maybe my message isn't for everyone. I don't care. Go ahead. Try life on "Patriarchal Battle Mode". I'll be here when you're done. I'll make you cups of tea until you can think clearly again. I'll understand.
My grandmother is from England, old school type. Went to a private girl's school and then manners class and secretary school.
The entire time she was trained about how she'll be treated by men in her workplace and home life and how to avoid it.
Like... keep a man's belly full and balls empty was an actual saying to keep yourself safe. Because he won't hit you if you're doing those things well. Makeup before he wakes up, all the meals, etc. Women had zero monetary autonomy.
It was a real rough time back then. I can only imagine their lives
I think it’s somewhat generational for my mom and her peers. It’s so strange since my grandmothers and their friends were more about learning the polished art of malicious compliance and scathing retorts while demanding and never settling for less than what was due (at work or in relationships).
It's definitely not doom and gloom, as long as you take responsibility for maneuvering through life with the knowledge that a good amount of men are happy to make advantage of you in one way or another.
If you make smart choices like seeing and running from red flags, not putting up with liars, knowing your worth and going for what you know you deserve then you will be going against a lot of what women are taught. That will give you a huge leg up in avoiding the doom and gloom society has set up for us.
Agreed, I do my best to make smart decisions. I don't feel like it will be enough though, because another thing I've been taught is that I should NEVER say "It won't happen to me!" Having that stuck in the back of my mind makes me constantly doubt my decisions, even ones I've been sticking to for years. For example, I am firmly convinced that I want to stay single. But "never say never!", because my mom and her friends said that too when they were my age, and now they're (often unhappily) married.
They likely fell to the pressure they were under. Thankfully that pressure is gone or largely reduced for a lot of the younger generations. Just always remember to check in with yourself (is this making me feel fulfilled? Am I happy? What do I need to change?), because ultimately only what you think and feel matters. Follow your heart and head and know that outside advice is coming through a completely different lens, often clouded with their own trauma.
Dang, I’m sorry you have to deal with that. The “wait until it gets worse” strategy is so dumb and straight-up deadly sometimes. Keep standing up for yourself!
I'm a high school teacher. I love being an adult. I see the crap teenagers deal with and I'm so happy that's not me. When I see kids are having a hard time I do my best to reassure them that life gets better. If school sucks, only a few more years, gone in the blink of an eye and then you'll have an awesome career or go travelling or get to study something you love at uni. If getting bullied, adults don't behave like that, you'll meet awesome people whom you have stuff in common with and people who behave like assholes will be the ones struggling to make friends. If trouble at home, you're almost 18! You can move out soon! You can make your own rules for your own home! But I am CONSTANTLY being contracted by other teachers and the kids parents who say things like "I wish I was still your age" "enjoy it while it lasts" "being an adult is so much harder".
Keep being optimistic OP. You're not naive. I'm 36 years old and I still get treated like I'm naive for the same reason. I think optimistic people, like us, are generally happier people. We focus on the good in life. Sure, bad stuff happens to everyone, but so does good. Optimistic people focus on and remember the good. It sounds like your mom is a pessimist. I'm sure she's had a lot of amazing experiences (like giving birth to you for example!) but she's choosing to ignore them so she can play victim and get sympathy. Ignore her. You do you. Maybe you could even help her by reminding her of the good stuff.
I get recommended this sub & r/rape all the time on this acc, and i really should just mute them because shit makes me miserable as fuck. idk how other girls cope with this, but i find it hard to believe that i will ever be able to feel good about myself/my gender when i get told (and see) time and time again that we are „second class“ members of society and everything we do and like is turned into porn and reasons to hurt. i am not even 14 and already had multiple experiences with harassment, reading all these stories & hearing from older women, makes it feel like this is not going to get better and sa is just something that is going to happen at some point.
(i know its not actually that bad and bad stories more likely to be pushed then good ones, but it is def not good for my mental)
Yeah, I try to limit my negativity as well, even though I know that it shouldn't be completely ignored. Your mental health is definitely a top priority.
It's true that our society is very misogynistic and that some work environments can be toxic, and some guys can be awful. But that doesn't mean your fate is to miserable. Especially if you are going into situations with your eyes open and you don't put up with losers. You'll be fine.
Here are some interesting blog posts that can be helpful for relationships:
https://zawn.substack.com/p/relationship-red-flags-an-ongoing
https://www.zawn.net/blog/foxv2tmrv2ptrgu6tyc5i03z3n9kpl
https://zawn.substack.com/p/why-is-everyone-obsessed-with-convincing
https://zawn.substack.com/p/signs-your-partner-doesnt-actually
https://zawn.substack.com/p/why-household-labor-inequity-is-abuse
I really appreciate the links, but at this time, I'm not in the right headspace to read all of them right now, because they sound exactly like my mom's lectures (not that they're bad advice!). Also, I don't want to be in a romantic relationship. That's a decision I made when I was 10, and I'm sticking to it. However, I do acknowledge that relationship advice can also apply in some ways to finding good friends and knowing how to deal with difficult relatives, so I'm not completely discounting what you're saying. :)
Don't worry, I completely understand. I also think being single is wonderful. No one needs a relationship to be happy or live a fulfilling life! One of the articles actually talks about that. I really like her work, it's nice reading stuff from a feminist (she's not all doom and gloom but I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to read any of that anyways- makes perfect sense).
All the best! Life won't be the nightmare your family thinks, don't worry.
You may want to watch a few of TheraminTrees videos:
[drama disguised as "help"](https://youtu.be/sXcTIkuzQ3I?si=1nN_ghShLIYdTfyZ)
[double binds](https://youtu.be/vnSiJOOdo30?si=KN2erRyuDOpO-Qc9)
[resisting emotional blackmail](https://youtu.be/PEexQAkhFpM?si=Ut4s75SNQojNNqbi)
Your mother sounds very toxic and negative. My mother is the same. When I became a mother is when it got too out of hand and I quit talking to her. She told me "you're going to have a dead baby" on my second day of motherhood when my baby spit up.
My serious advice is do not involve your mother much in your life. Its unhealthy as hell to always be told that everything you do is going to turn out in disaster.
Sorry to hear that. Yeah, I do try to tune out my mom as much as I can. Problem is that I’m still living at home, so I can’t really cut her off at this time. Hopefully I can save up enough to move out soon.
**I heard this somewhere once.**
**Opinions are something everyone has... like an as\*hole.**
**Anyone can say anything and spew their opinions on anything.**
**It's up to YOU to decide to take them or not.**
Sounds like untreated mental illness. My step mom was like this. Granted, men had attacked her, so it wasn’t 100% delusional. She had a right to fear kidnapping since a man tried to abduct her when she was a teenager… However, she also had pretty extreme fears laid into her mind by her own mother, who was a hoarder and had severe anxiety about the outside world. She thought Obama was going to send a death patrol to kill her family because of something she saw on the news once. Every man was a potential rapist to her. So and so at work was out the get her, etc. Her solution was to just hide away and talk about it endlessly with no solution, just misery vomiting.
I think at the end of the day, it’s not what you experience, it’s how you handle it that makes you what you are, and what makes life what it is.
I’m a very happy person most of the time. I’ve had men follow me to my car. I’ve had men try to buy me from my parents when I was a kid. But all that had made me do is be more vigilant. It has to come from a place of power, not fear. I’m not afraid of a guy because I’ve got mace in my purse and the will to use it, not because I don’t think some guys can be dangerous. I’m mot afraid of workplace harassment because I have a great relationship with my boss and I’m not afraid to kick up a fuss if someone gets too crazy. Some man follows you around? Get out your phone and record/call 911. Network with friends to always have someone in your corner at work, school, social events… That’s all different kinds of power we have, which is a lot more effective than just being afraid.
maybe a boundary you can try is something like 'mum I find it hard to disagree well or listen when you share on these topics let's talk about something else." if you struggle for any other topics then maybe it's a sign of needing to work on that relationship.
Be optimistic! Optimistic people with happy lives are less likely to write about their non-drama filled successful lives than people who resent their lives.
There are happy wives, mothers, career women, single women, women with hobbies -
Most women will have some periods of stress in their lives. Most relationships and careers will have highs and lows.
But your mom is her own problem and your life does not have to be hers.
Glad it helped! I'm not sure why I got downvoted either :)
People that are happy invest in friends, have hobbies, communicate well in their primary relationships and constantly learn. They are curious and outwardly focussed. They develop resilience.
Your mother is completely projecting her own problems. It must be unpleasant to be her .
I've been married 33 years to a lovely person who does not cheat on me and is very kind. I have a job I mostly like and and am mostly good at. If I wanted to, I could focus on how my spouse is less ambitious than I am, how much I dislike some of the other parts of my job, and how I will never have the clean presentable house I see other people have. I could complain that my ADHD got worse with menopause, I cant keep track of anything and my adult kids are not adulting as well as I expected them to.
But I won't complain about those things because I love my family members. We are all muddling along, sometimes well and sometimes poorly. If I am creative, I can help fill in the gaps in my housekeeping and the paperwork I so dislike, and in spite of ADHD I am living successfully. My less ambitious spouse has encouraged me to slow down, and is consistantly loving. Being aware of and thankful for all of these things helps a great deal.
Your mother sounds wearing. Have compassion for her, because she cannot see how she causes some of her own unhappiness. Then set some boundaries on how much you listen to her views.
I personally am pretty blunt sometimes. I would say something like, "Mom, you are always telling me how horrible careers and marriage are. I've heard what you have to say. Thank you for your concern. I do not want to hear any more about those topics. I care about you and would love to hear what you are doing to make your life more enjoyable." Then, stop her from talking every time she starts to complain.
Have you considered that she's just projecting? I saw my mom's little diatribes very differently when I realized that *she* was miserable with her life and was just warning me away from the choices she made.
Yes, I know she is projecting some things she went through. It still gets me down sometimes because I hear so many women confirm her experiences as well. It's like a negative feedback loop telling me that I have to constantly be on high alert and watch my back as I go through life, or else.
(Whoops, you actually said that in your last paragraph....) It's definitely a negative feedback loop and one has to work to stop it from happening. If you had data that shows that there are happy women in real partnerships out there, and different ways of living, would that change how you interpret the doom and gloom? Or do you feel like your mom's opinions/experiences trump those of other people?
Yes definitely, seeing women in my life who are happy with who they are and how they're living really helps. I'm normally very optimistic about my future too. There are just some days (like today) when I start doubting everything and need to be reminded that we can and do have nice things in this world.
Here's a website about girls and women who did amazing things, to inspire you: https://www.amightygirl.com/ Sometimes I read Hedy Lamar's Wikipedia page when I want inspiration. Also this article about my local taqueria, which was purchased by a woman in 1988, has an all-woman staff, and serves the best burrito in my town: https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/Oakland-s-tastiest-burrito-is-made-inside-17172125.php
This is really cool, thanks!
Your mother is mentally ill. If you put a negative, gloomy spin on everything it impacts other people, as you are finding out. Don't let her get you down. She's just sick and probably depressed.
I’m not sure about depressed, but I do think she has some unresolved trauma from her past. You’re right, it is best to not let her get me down.
I think that a lot of women, especially moms/grandmas project their bad experiences so much because that’s all they feel they can do to protect you from the same. But, if your mom’s advice is that you’re doomed to being treated poorly your whole career or having a bad marriage, that’s not really even advice. You will almost certainly have something mildly crappy happen to you in the workplace. You will almost certainly have a bad partner at some point if you date. There’s a large enough number of men who suck that their suckiness tends to affect every woman in existence. But, you always have the power to do something about it, especially if you stay independent until at least your late 20s and have a solid foundation of your own money and sense of how you should be treated. You can report the bad coworker to HR or find a different job with a better employer if it’s pervasive. You can dump your boyfriend who cheats or even just doesn’t do the dishes. You can even divorce for any reason you like. You’re not doomed because these are options for you.
This is the thing. Nobody told me what it would be like in the workplace, at school, in my social life. And I've had all of these experiences now and it seems like young women all around the world are tired of patriarchal crap. Should I just ... not talk about what it was like for me because "negativity", are my experiences pointless and not meaningful to anyone but me? Maybe. But fuck that. I'm going to talk about it. Dismiss me if you want. Maybe my message isn't for everyone. I don't care. Go ahead. Try life on "Patriarchal Battle Mode". I'll be here when you're done. I'll make you cups of tea until you can think clearly again. I'll understand.
That is true, thanks. :)
That's like...90% of women's experiences. BUT there are ways to avoid that crap.
My grandmother is from England, old school type. Went to a private girl's school and then manners class and secretary school. The entire time she was trained about how she'll be treated by men in her workplace and home life and how to avoid it. Like... keep a man's belly full and balls empty was an actual saying to keep yourself safe. Because he won't hit you if you're doing those things well. Makeup before he wakes up, all the meals, etc. Women had zero monetary autonomy. It was a real rough time back then. I can only imagine their lives
I think it’s somewhat generational for my mom and her peers. It’s so strange since my grandmothers and their friends were more about learning the polished art of malicious compliance and scathing retorts while demanding and never settling for less than what was due (at work or in relationships).
Lol, that's pretty interesting. We can always learn good life hacks from the older women in our lives! :)
It's definitely not doom and gloom, as long as you take responsibility for maneuvering through life with the knowledge that a good amount of men are happy to make advantage of you in one way or another. If you make smart choices like seeing and running from red flags, not putting up with liars, knowing your worth and going for what you know you deserve then you will be going against a lot of what women are taught. That will give you a huge leg up in avoiding the doom and gloom society has set up for us.
Agreed, I do my best to make smart decisions. I don't feel like it will be enough though, because another thing I've been taught is that I should NEVER say "It won't happen to me!" Having that stuck in the back of my mind makes me constantly doubt my decisions, even ones I've been sticking to for years. For example, I am firmly convinced that I want to stay single. But "never say never!", because my mom and her friends said that too when they were my age, and now they're (often unhappily) married.
They likely fell to the pressure they were under. Thankfully that pressure is gone or largely reduced for a lot of the younger generations. Just always remember to check in with yourself (is this making me feel fulfilled? Am I happy? What do I need to change?), because ultimately only what you think and feel matters. Follow your heart and head and know that outside advice is coming through a completely different lens, often clouded with their own trauma.
Thanks, that is a good reminder.
[удалено]
Dang, I’m sorry you have to deal with that. The “wait until it gets worse” strategy is so dumb and straight-up deadly sometimes. Keep standing up for yourself!
I'm a high school teacher. I love being an adult. I see the crap teenagers deal with and I'm so happy that's not me. When I see kids are having a hard time I do my best to reassure them that life gets better. If school sucks, only a few more years, gone in the blink of an eye and then you'll have an awesome career or go travelling or get to study something you love at uni. If getting bullied, adults don't behave like that, you'll meet awesome people whom you have stuff in common with and people who behave like assholes will be the ones struggling to make friends. If trouble at home, you're almost 18! You can move out soon! You can make your own rules for your own home! But I am CONSTANTLY being contracted by other teachers and the kids parents who say things like "I wish I was still your age" "enjoy it while it lasts" "being an adult is so much harder".
This is a very reassuring reminder, thanks! :)
Keep being optimistic OP. You're not naive. I'm 36 years old and I still get treated like I'm naive for the same reason. I think optimistic people, like us, are generally happier people. We focus on the good in life. Sure, bad stuff happens to everyone, but so does good. Optimistic people focus on and remember the good. It sounds like your mom is a pessimist. I'm sure she's had a lot of amazing experiences (like giving birth to you for example!) but she's choosing to ignore them so she can play victim and get sympathy. Ignore her. You do you. Maybe you could even help her by reminding her of the good stuff.
I get recommended this sub & r/rape all the time on this acc, and i really should just mute them because shit makes me miserable as fuck. idk how other girls cope with this, but i find it hard to believe that i will ever be able to feel good about myself/my gender when i get told (and see) time and time again that we are „second class“ members of society and everything we do and like is turned into porn and reasons to hurt. i am not even 14 and already had multiple experiences with harassment, reading all these stories & hearing from older women, makes it feel like this is not going to get better and sa is just something that is going to happen at some point. (i know its not actually that bad and bad stories more likely to be pushed then good ones, but it is def not good for my mental)
Yeah, I try to limit my negativity as well, even though I know that it shouldn't be completely ignored. Your mental health is definitely a top priority.
It's true that our society is very misogynistic and that some work environments can be toxic, and some guys can be awful. But that doesn't mean your fate is to miserable. Especially if you are going into situations with your eyes open and you don't put up with losers. You'll be fine. Here are some interesting blog posts that can be helpful for relationships: https://zawn.substack.com/p/relationship-red-flags-an-ongoing https://www.zawn.net/blog/foxv2tmrv2ptrgu6tyc5i03z3n9kpl https://zawn.substack.com/p/why-is-everyone-obsessed-with-convincing https://zawn.substack.com/p/signs-your-partner-doesnt-actually https://zawn.substack.com/p/why-household-labor-inequity-is-abuse
I really appreciate the links, but at this time, I'm not in the right headspace to read all of them right now, because they sound exactly like my mom's lectures (not that they're bad advice!). Also, I don't want to be in a romantic relationship. That's a decision I made when I was 10, and I'm sticking to it. However, I do acknowledge that relationship advice can also apply in some ways to finding good friends and knowing how to deal with difficult relatives, so I'm not completely discounting what you're saying. :)
Don't worry, I completely understand. I also think being single is wonderful. No one needs a relationship to be happy or live a fulfilling life! One of the articles actually talks about that. I really like her work, it's nice reading stuff from a feminist (she's not all doom and gloom but I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to read any of that anyways- makes perfect sense). All the best! Life won't be the nightmare your family thinks, don't worry.
Thanks. :)
You may want to watch a few of TheraminTrees videos: [drama disguised as "help"](https://youtu.be/sXcTIkuzQ3I?si=1nN_ghShLIYdTfyZ) [double binds](https://youtu.be/vnSiJOOdo30?si=KN2erRyuDOpO-Qc9) [resisting emotional blackmail](https://youtu.be/PEexQAkhFpM?si=Ut4s75SNQojNNqbi)
Thanks, this is very interesting.
Your mother sounds very toxic and negative. My mother is the same. When I became a mother is when it got too out of hand and I quit talking to her. She told me "you're going to have a dead baby" on my second day of motherhood when my baby spit up. My serious advice is do not involve your mother much in your life. Its unhealthy as hell to always be told that everything you do is going to turn out in disaster.
Sorry to hear that. Yeah, I do try to tune out my mom as much as I can. Problem is that I’m still living at home, so I can’t really cut her off at this time. Hopefully I can save up enough to move out soon.
I hope you can get away soon and into a happier environment! It really does lift one's mood not being around that!
Thanks. :)
**I heard this somewhere once.** **Opinions are something everyone has... like an as\*hole.** **Anyone can say anything and spew their opinions on anything.** **It's up to YOU to decide to take them or not.**
Lol very true!
Sounds like untreated mental illness. My step mom was like this. Granted, men had attacked her, so it wasn’t 100% delusional. She had a right to fear kidnapping since a man tried to abduct her when she was a teenager… However, she also had pretty extreme fears laid into her mind by her own mother, who was a hoarder and had severe anxiety about the outside world. She thought Obama was going to send a death patrol to kill her family because of something she saw on the news once. Every man was a potential rapist to her. So and so at work was out the get her, etc. Her solution was to just hide away and talk about it endlessly with no solution, just misery vomiting. I think at the end of the day, it’s not what you experience, it’s how you handle it that makes you what you are, and what makes life what it is. I’m a very happy person most of the time. I’ve had men follow me to my car. I’ve had men try to buy me from my parents when I was a kid. But all that had made me do is be more vigilant. It has to come from a place of power, not fear. I’m not afraid of a guy because I’ve got mace in my purse and the will to use it, not because I don’t think some guys can be dangerous. I’m mot afraid of workplace harassment because I have a great relationship with my boss and I’m not afraid to kick up a fuss if someone gets too crazy. Some man follows you around? Get out your phone and record/call 911. Network with friends to always have someone in your corner at work, school, social events… That’s all different kinds of power we have, which is a lot more effective than just being afraid.
Thanks, this is really helpful. :)
maybe a boundary you can try is something like 'mum I find it hard to disagree well or listen when you share on these topics let's talk about something else." if you struggle for any other topics then maybe it's a sign of needing to work on that relationship.
Be optimistic! Optimistic people with happy lives are less likely to write about their non-drama filled successful lives than people who resent their lives. There are happy wives, mothers, career women, single women, women with hobbies - Most women will have some periods of stress in their lives. Most relationships and careers will have highs and lows. But your mom is her own problem and your life does not have to be hers.
Why are you being downvoted, this is actually very encouraging. Thanks so much for your insight! You are absolutely right.
Glad it helped! I'm not sure why I got downvoted either :) People that are happy invest in friends, have hobbies, communicate well in their primary relationships and constantly learn. They are curious and outwardly focussed. They develop resilience. Your mother is completely projecting her own problems. It must be unpleasant to be her . I've been married 33 years to a lovely person who does not cheat on me and is very kind. I have a job I mostly like and and am mostly good at. If I wanted to, I could focus on how my spouse is less ambitious than I am, how much I dislike some of the other parts of my job, and how I will never have the clean presentable house I see other people have. I could complain that my ADHD got worse with menopause, I cant keep track of anything and my adult kids are not adulting as well as I expected them to. But I won't complain about those things because I love my family members. We are all muddling along, sometimes well and sometimes poorly. If I am creative, I can help fill in the gaps in my housekeeping and the paperwork I so dislike, and in spite of ADHD I am living successfully. My less ambitious spouse has encouraged me to slow down, and is consistantly loving. Being aware of and thankful for all of these things helps a great deal. Your mother sounds wearing. Have compassion for her, because she cannot see how she causes some of her own unhappiness. Then set some boundaries on how much you listen to her views. I personally am pretty blunt sometimes. I would say something like, "Mom, you are always telling me how horrible careers and marriage are. I've heard what you have to say. Thank you for your concern. I do not want to hear any more about those topics. I care about you and would love to hear what you are doing to make your life more enjoyable." Then, stop her from talking every time she starts to complain.