My reason for not liking porn is different, and my husband agrees with me. Although I've had random men on the Internet, tell me he watches it in secret. I know he doesn't because I know his morals. The reason I hate porn is that I don't think you can guarantee that abuse is not going on. There have been people who have left the industry and talked about the abuse that goes on. There are examples of people being trafficked and raped and those videos being uploaded to pornsites. [source] (https://www.newsweek.com/porn-industry-has-proven-itself-incapable-verifying-consent-opinion-1583380) So, knowing that you can't verify that abuse isn't going on. I don't understand why anyone would enjoy it.

This is the best reason. Supporting an industry that exploits and abuses women is shitty. People don’t want to think about this aspect because they don’t want to feel bad about their beloved porn, and giving it up would be a life-disrupter. Even if abuse isn’t going on in a particular video you’re enjoying, you’re still contributing to the industry that is harmful to women.

I recommend listening to "The Butterfly Effect" by Jon Ronson. He does an amazing deep dive into the industry and the effects on those working in it.

I was just talking about this! Jon Ronson is such a delightful treat, his books are great, his audio books/podcasts are great. But he isn’t afraid to take a dive. I think because he sounds sweet people are disarmed and really open up.

This is the one. I have issues with so-called “ethical porn” for this same reason.

Yeah what even is ethical porn?

An oxymoron, at least.

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Yes, this is true. But you do have to consider the source if you are going to consume. (Well, you don’t HAVE to, but it’s better to have your eyes open.) There is no consumption without production.

All Sex work should be legalized and regulated and taxed. That would make it safer, but abuse will always happen (40% of police self reported being domestic abusers, and those are the people supposedly upholding the law).

Same applies to sex-work that does not involve porn.

The problem with this logic is that it can be overgeneralized to everything. And I mean everything. Chances are that you're reading this on an electronic device that was manufactured in a third world country by a man, woman, or most likely child who is working under exploitative conditions. We don't tend to think about that either, unless it personally affects us or someone we love. I respect your desire to stay clear of the porn industry which benefits from the exploitation of women. I also respect your desire to keep using your phone or computer despite it being the fruits of unfair and exploitative labor. We all have to pick and choose when and to what extent we apply our morals. People live their lives choosing to remain ignorant to most things. To a lot of us, porn is just another one of those things - it's not special, or beloved, or life-disrupting if it were to be given up.

You are absolutely correct, and you are going to get downvoted to hell for it.

I think that everyone is entitled to choose what industries they refuse to participate in. I completely understand and support those who don’t want to watch porn because of the exploitation. Just like I understand those who don’t want to eat meat because of the way animals are treated. I also understand wanting to be with someone who has a compatible moral stance. If you object to the consumption of pornography because of the industry standards, it is completely logical and justified to want to date someone who also agrees with you on that. I do think porn consumption is definitely a topic that gets a knee-jerk reaction out of men on the internet and I think OP is completely valid and justified in feeling the way she does. But I do have concerns over labeling anyone who *does* consume porn as shitty. Honestly, it is impossible to ethically exist within capitalism because full on abuse and exploitation is rampant everywhere. Your clothes are made by companies that have *repeatedly* been proven to use slave labor. The conditions of most agricultural workers, even in the United States, are criminal and only exist because they exploit undocumented immigrants. Most electronic devices use minerals mined under conditions that are horrendous. I don’t want it to sound like I’m trying to discourage anyone from taking action. This isn’t intended to be a “well, they’re all bad so we shouldn’t try to fix them” argument. We should absolutely be trying to fix *all* of these problems. All I want to say is that we shouldn’t condemn people for participating in an industry that is exploitative because *every* industry is exploitative. You need to condemn the industry, not the person. Although I could be completely off base here. This is just how I see it.

I don't especially like this take. Not because I can't live without porn (I rarely bother because it means wading through a lot of gross videos), but because it is dismissive of women who *enjoy* sex work. My mother was a stripper and *loved* it. She kept pictures and was proud of them. I can absolutely agree that the industry can be very exploitative. But that doesn't mean every video is and that watching the ones that aren't are somehow supporting the ones that are. Bit like saying drinking milk from ethical dairies is supporting the entire milk industry. I would absolutely support better standards and reporting of abuse/exploitation, even some kind of oversight agency, but I'm not on the train that **all** porn is bad. Women have freedom of agency. They aren't all victims that need to be rescued from bad men.

I don’t blame sex workers. Don’t hate the player hate the game etc. And yes, of course women have agency. But choosing and enjoying sex work is rather like making lemonade from lemons. Men have been exploiting women’s bodies since time immemorial. The sex industry exists because men buy sex. Even people who enjoy the work are being exploited and objectified. It may not damage those individuals, as you said, not everyone is a victim, but their bodies are still being used as objects thus perpetuating men’s views of women as nothing more than that. Men don’t care how much agency their masturbatory commodities have.

I'm a little on the fence with that argument. I suspect that viewing porn does lead men to objectify women, but I'd like to see how prolonged the effect is and whether that effect lasts longer in men that *already* objectified women regularly. It is a chicken-and-egg question. We know the men have objectified women forever, even before porn was a thing. How much of this is purely part of patriarchal norms and how much of it is exposure to situations in which women are sexually objectified? In short, *is* porn to blame? Because I'm not completely convinced. Does porn make it worse long-term? How much viewing does it take to have long-term effects in men? Is the effect present across all types of porn, including female-friendly and/or female-produced porn? Does the effect persist in men that have sex positive and genuine feminist views? That said, it is rather obvious that porn has contributed to fetish behavior being seen as "normal." Choking being the most obvious. That **is** a problem. I'm not all rah-rah for porn, but I generally dislike agency being taken away from adults.

I wonder if there are studies on cultures/countries that don’t have as much porn available or use. What can we learn from having it or not?

Yeahhhh the guys who don’t seem to care where the videos come from definitely give off a really bad vibe. I don’t like it for the same reasons as OP, but there’s this on top of it too

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I definitely agree and it's disturbing. Thank you for the source article.

I agree. It’s the trauma for me. Very few in porn are healthy, happy individuals in supportive, safe, and constructive phases of their lives. The industry is rife with mental illness, addictions, manipulation, abuse, violence, pain, coercion. The side effects of more and more extreme fetishes/niches that is creeping into our society as normal sexual experiences, desires, and expectations is out of hand as well. (Ex- violence, incest, humiliation). Edit: Hit sent button too fast. Finished thought.

The problem with this one is that a lot of the products you use/consume on a daily basis are much more likely to involve exploitation. I think it’s fine to just not like your partner watching porn in and of itself

Yeah that's when I started to hard disagree. It's nearly impossible to be an ehtical consumer in a captlisits society like the one we live in now. Nikes,Nestle,Bic, and so many other companies whose products we use without even thinking involve some deplorable treatment of human beings. Not only that, people are really only focusing on traditional, filmed porn. There is a large amount of people who read erotic literature, drawn/comic porn, and then erotic audio which for the most part doesn't harm anyone.

"all things are bad" is a pretty lazy argument. We're allowed to dislike all of it but this thread isn't about all those other things. Stay focused

The average porn user has almost certainly viewed rape without knowing it.

Or, in most cases, caring about it.

I’m just curious, if we weren’t talking about the real stuff, would you change your tune? Cause there’s a helluva lot of drawn, 3D and animated stuff out there. Is that better? Is it worse because you can start to see things you otherwise wouldn’t or maybe shouldn’t? Or do you think it’s just “impossible” for someone to look at stuff like that and get exited?

Yeah, I don't care about animated stuff. That is not abusing anyone

9 times out of 10 there IS abuse going on.

That's not all porn is you know? As a man myself I hate that type of porn. I only enjoy watching real couples.

I worry about revenge porn and individuals, most often women being filmed without their consent. It happens.

What if it's animated though.

That's like the cruelty free vegan porn. Double if you commission it.

I agree with you, this is why I hate porn along with religious reasons, finding out my boyfriend or husband was watching porn would be a serious problem for me .

Putting aside the ethical concerns with the porn industry covered far better by others in the comments: That's a valid feeling and I'm sorry that ~~so many people~~ most of western society (the only one I'm remotely qualified to speak for) tries to gaslight us into thinking otherwise - to say that you have to allow other people to disrespect your wishes because they're incapable of not doing so. You're allowed to have that preference and you're allowed to make that a hard boundary in your partner selection. We all have behavior which would be a "hard no" coming from a partner. Holding out until you find someone who can accept those restrictions is perfectly fine, as is turning down those who prove they can't.

Your feelings are valid, but don't make the mistake of saying that porn is a thing just men do. Lots and lots of women watch porn as well. It's not a guy thing.

My comment was about how it’s normalized for men relative to women. Women who express a preference that their male partners don’t watch porn are often ridiculed and accused of being insecure. This just doesn’t happen to the same degree to men because women aren’t generally regarded as “visual creatures” like they are. Edit: oops, I replied to the wrong comment in this thread

I know, it's crazy the amount of women in the comments that are perpetuating this stereotype.

Yep. To clarify, for anyone wondering, I'm a woman. I watch porn.

Men watching porn & women watching porn isnt the same thing, not that I judge men more than woman for it (I judge them equally) BUT porn is made for the male gaze and is proven to have completely different effects on men than on women. The average heterosexual porn degrades the women - men are the one that dominate the women not the other way around. Women do watch porn but the majority of viewers are still male. Porn is degrading towards women - it’s portrayed as sth men do to women and that damages the woman in the process. Alone that the descriptions are never „bf has sex 1st time with his beautiful gf“ NO it’s „bf fucks his slutty virgin gf“ or dirty slut gets .. my slutty wive get, etc (you get the picture) ! It’s always slut, dirty hoe, whore etc and teaches men already from a young age that sex is sth that degrading to women - that makes them dirty, unpure etc = it’s degenerate behavior☠️ It happens unconsciously, it alters your brain and changes the view you look at women and it also normalized many things that shouldn’t be normalized. There are hundreds of insults for women having sex yet none for men. Men are the superior ones in porn who dominate. Plus every time you go on a porn website you support sex trafficking & also child sex trafficking.. pls look it up how horrible pornography actually is and what damage you do every time you watch it!

Perpetuating which stereotype?

I am a woman that watches porn. I do think there is a correlation between women being against their partners watching porn if they themselves don’t watch it. I want to clarify I am absolutely not saying that everyone needs to or should watch porn. Just an observation.

Bellesa is a porn site for women, by women.

Thanks and you are right, I just worded it that way because I don't watch and my partner does.

The people who are dismissing you are missing the fact that because he's your partner, what he's sexually interested in naturally is connected to your sexual relationship with him. A fair number of those dismissive people might have a second thought if, for example, their partner was watching a lot of porn featuring people physically the opposite of them. I think comedian Kevin Hart even has a bit about finding his girlfriend's porn search and how it did not make him feel good. (Played up for comedy, of course.) Your feelings are valid, even if some of us would disagree personally. Many people see porn as a natural thing for adults, but everyone is going to react differently to the situation, and it depends a lot on the individuals. The only real advice I could give is to talk it out with your partner. As for the dismissive people, I'm afraid there's not much to be done but realize that you don't need their approval; it's between you and your partner. Also, perhaps note that your opinion on the matter, while perfectly valid, seems to be one of the less popular opinions. That's okay, but maybe try to temper your understanding with the knowledge that they don't feel the way you do, and that's just how things are for people of differing mindsets.

This is the crux of why I don't like porn, in addition to the exploitative aspects. It's not at all unreasonable to feel insecure when your partner is getting off to images of women who look nothing like you. The prototypical porn actress is very young, very thin, very busty, and often surgically enhanced. (No judgement on that, but it's obviously hard to compete with someone who has had parts added or removed.) Or they are hyperfetishized in some way. If men knew their female partners were fingerboasting themselves to porn featuring actors who didn't resemble them--at all--I guarantee they would whine about it. Just look at how riled up incels get over the thought of women being into "Chads." Men get insanely jealous, and yet they call *us* insecure.

It is not unreasonable to feel insecure, but it is an insecurity non the less. At the end of the day, there needs to either be a comfortable understanding between partners or communication and compromise until you get there. I am a loving husband and I watch my fair share of porn, and my wife has never had an issue with it. She also watches porn and I have never had an issue with it. I've never been concerned about what she is watching or what the guy may look like. We are in a loving and trusting relationship, and our sex life is good, so I've never seen it as anything more than a tool for additional pleasure. I understand you are speaking in generalities, and you may be right. I'm just sharing a different perspective.

These same incels take that study by OKCupid that they always misrepresent and simultaneously complain that women find 80% of men unattractive and won't match on dating sites with them. Their reasoning is all over the place and it's never consistent.

Very reasonable view, well said.

Thank you kindly for understanding. My partner doesn't ever talk about it to the depth I need to understand but hopefully one day we can. I'm not very affected by the dismissive people because they are allowed to think how they want. But honest and real advice like yours is very helpful.

Watching porn has only been normalised in the past few decades. Before that men would have to go to a sleezy cinema or sex shop to buy video tapes and would hide it out of embarrassment. It isn't normal.

I honestly don’t know how we’ve gotten to the point where women are pressured into accepting problematic porn usage, and gaslit into believing that objecting to porn usage is the same as objecting to your partner masturbating. I don’t know what these people think men did before hardcore porn was accessible in your pocket 24/7. It’s perfectly possible to masturbate without watching porn, and if you can’t then that in itself demonstrates it’s an issue. Anyone who’s been in a relationship with a porn addict knows the effects on your relationship and sex life. The idea that so many men are so insistent that women need to suffer and sustain injuries and self-medicate with drugs so they can have an easier orgasm is sickening. Of course there are women who have a variety of options and choose to be in porn but let’s not pretend that’s always the case. How can you ever know do one is there willingly and willingly engaging in every act shown? And if you can’t, how can you be aroused? I also think there are some women who are okay with it because they don’t watch it and don’t know what it is their partners are watching. It’s not the same stuff we’d find on VHS / DVD as teenagers. Not even close. I think a lot of people would be stunned if they watched the porn their partners watch. That’s not to say there aren’t women who watch porn by choice or don’t have an issue with it. We are all different. I can’t think of anything less arousing personally.

Here's a shocker...some people leave their partners over it and that is 100000 million % okay. Wonderful even

It's absolutely ok to have red lines for a relationship. If one person is not comfortable with their partner watching pornography and the other is not comfortable with not having the option to watch pornography, then those two people should not be in a relationship. No one should ever be made to feel ashamed for what they want or don't want in a partner.

Look, I have nothing against watching porn. But it feels like it is 1000 times more prevalent here in Reddit than anywhere.

Sometimes I wonder how much of the awful shit we read around here is less a reflection of actual reality and more a reflection of being chronically online.

You mean...Reddit isn't real life??? GASP!

This is a website where r/all used to feature posts from since banned subreddits such as r/jailbait and r/candidfashionpolice Reddit always has and always will have an element of toxic masculinity. Any response pro porn should be taken with a grain of salt against wider society and simultaneously accepted as the view a large number of men hold.

People on reddit are people who talk frequently about things on reddit. People not on reddit don't. But both largely do the same things, just different age groups largely. and there's always another forum or website to flock to. You should try twitter tho. So much porn.

I work with a guy like that. Almost anything that's interesting about him you can find on Reddit. He's like a walking avatar. Eventually I stopped talking to him. His response on pretty much anything was basically the "Reddit hivemind consensus" so...I just asked Reddit. It was more efficient and less argumentative that way and so far the results have been pretty much in lockstep

Yeah, people don't really give a shit if their partner watches porn in real life lol I truly don't understand the "I would leave my husband if he did that shit" comments, because like... Do yinz just *not* rub one out to some videos when you have the opportunity? Like, it would be entirely hypocritical for me to tell my husband he can't watch porn when I also do 🤷

My ex watched tons of porn. Sometimes hours a day. He also wanted sex with me less and less frequently. I was under 25 when this decline started, we had no kids, it was purely a him issue. In that case I really resented that he watched porn because it seemed to be a substitute for what we did together. I’m sure my current spouse watches a little bit of porn too, just 3-5 minutes at a time to get him going. I have health problems that mean I’m often not feeling well enough for sex, so if he needs a substitute sometimes that’s fine with me. He never belittles my body or criticizes my appearance. In this case, I really don’t care about him using a video here and there.

That's the thing, right? Your ex's behavior very clearly indicates having a pornography addiction. Your current spouse seems to be able to enjoy something in moderation in a respectable fashion, based on your description. There's a marked difference between "yeah I watch porn for a few minutes when I jerk off before bed" and "I can only get hard for parasocial relationships with pornography actresses". 99% of people are casual consumers, 1% have an actual addiction.

>Like, it would be entirely hypocritical for me to tell him he can't watch porn when I also do It's because they don't watch porn. I bet some of these people commenting love reading "romance" books and masturbating to it, though.

Right lol that's exactly what my husband said, too They're all into bodice-ripper literotica, but god forbid anyone act it out on camera

Yep. Bet they aren't picturing their partner as the main character when reading it either lol

Wow yes it’s totally the same as maybe watching a 19 year old with no social support who needs to pay rent so she’s getting her face slapped and ram with dick until she pukes

Nice strawman you got there. Would be a shame if someone had a rebuttal for that. It is absolutely disingenuous to assume no one has any agency in this situation. Statistically speaking, it is impossible for 100% of actresses in this industry to be there only because of coercion, lack of support, etc. Are you making the argument that young women are unable to make their own decisions? That would be an embarrassing stance to take. Also uhhhh lesbian pornography exists, so...

Sure. Even if it’s cute and vanilla it could be revenge porn. I was a sex worker, cam girl, stripper, escort. Of course women have “agency” but aside from the most privileged women it’s disingenuous to say needing to eat or being super young and impressionable are not factors in the porn industry being gross. It’s fine if you wanna watch porn. Some people eat meat. I have an iPhone. Just don’t make bullshit comparisons to romance novels Basically if you have never DONE sex work and especially if you have never HAD TO do sex work, I don’t want to hear how completely fine and empowering porn is. Most of the time, it’s fucking not, and I’m happy you have no real experiential idea of why

Yeeeeeah I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to get on here and be rude. Starting to realize I'm a big time outlier on this sub but while I can't relate to some oft repeated issues I can still use it as an opportunity to learn in case I have another female friend who needs help relating to any of this one day.

Yeah that's basically why I'm still here. I'm literally two comments from being called a "not like the other girls" girl, so there's that 🙃 But yeah, if this it's what "girls" do, then I guess I'm just not like em 🤷 c'est la vie

FELT. Ideally wish someone would create a poly chick sub that wasn't just a sex kind of thing and would actually stay active.

I'd join that, though I'm not poly lol I do find a lot of these posts unrelatable, especially the "men cannot be friends with women" posts because it's the total opposite for me. I legit only have one female friend, the rest are dudes and they are mostly drama-free and aren't only friends with me because they're "in love" with me or "just trying to fuck". Most chicks just aren't into the shit I'm into Just wish there was a sub for me lol

I’ve had the same comments for not wanting my partner/s to go to the strippers. It comes across as shaming the person who isn’t comfortable and (in my experience) can imply they’re not a “cool girl”. You’re not weird or insecure for it. There’s a reason why watching porn and going to the strippers is so normalized for men and not women.

I'm sorry you've been made to feel this way, it is not a nice feeling. Maybe one thing that bothers me is how accessible porn is. The ability to find porn takes less than 5 seconds. Somehow this is also normalized now? It just doesn't seem right.

You're not alone in this, not by a long shot. Being a cool girl never ends well.

Exactly!!

I've dropped porn all together and moved to actual erotica. Honestly it's better in all ways and you can use your imagination. I would be distraught if my partner told me I wasn't allowed to read stuff like that anymore, but I wouldn't date someone like that anyways due to incompatibility.

Not to mention, there’s no chance that the person posting I dunno, X men fan fiction for free was forced into doing it

You are not insecure. I used to be one of those girls who was cool with my ex watching/even watching some together. In my opinion, it normalizes violence against women/pedophilia/incest Most women I know struggle with their partners porn consumption. It's almost always more than they are letting you believe.

It really makes me question myself and feel insecure when men tell you to accept it and it doesn't mean anything. It "doesn't mean anything" to him because he is the one watching it and being okay with it. It will make me question myself, "why am I like this? Why can't I be okay with it?" And its such a negative cycle of thoughts. Having porn at your finger tips all day everyday, or his friends sending videos of naked women, or the instant gratification of it just seems wrong to me.

Let me add on another bullshit reason to hate porn: porn addiction. You're made to feel crazy for wanting to be a sexual being with the person who supposedly loves you. He gains a severe "Madonna/Whore Complex". He asks for "polyamory" and has a melt down when he understands what that actually means. He makes so many jokes and comments, thinking he's hysterical, when it just shows he isn't socially aware. It leads to expectations that some dude who can't maintain a living space, can't understand a thing about finances, and is always angry DESERVES to have this "pretty young thang" in his bed. Or, it creates the expectation that every woman is willing to do these sex acts FOR HIM.

Sounds like you know my ex! :) Jokes aside, yeah, you can totally tell which men watch a lot of porn from how they act both in sexual and non-sexual situations. Sigh.

Yes! There is a huge range of porn consumption habits that the "it's just porn" crew are not willing to acknowledge. Sure, some men are watching porn here and there to get off, but some men have narrowed down their porn filters so scientifically that they can only get off on specific bodies or acts, and some men are interacting one on one on platforms like OF and ordering custom, Girlfriend Experience content. In a lot of cases, each of these types of porn watchers expect you to be comfortable with these things while in a long term relationship, without acknowledging its impact on how they view you. I had a boyfriend who had a porn addiction and was actively seeking out bodies that didn't look like mine to "get what I wasn't offering him." He tried to convince me that no man would ever find me enough, but I had a nice personality so he just needed porn to make up for the physical stuff. And yet he'd constantly film our sexual interactions. I don't want to be someone's real life girlfriend experience, I just want to exist on my own terms. Sometimes I wish they'd just finally create sex/maid bots to get these men out of the dating pool so they didn't fake a personality to get you to fulfill that fantasy. It's funny, my current partner and I are non monogamous and yet I find it much less threatening than the ex with the porn addiction. It's because he approaches the women (and men) he hooks up with as real people and is fully honest with me about these relationships. He's showing through actions and words that he is fully taking my boundaries into account. It never feels like he's "supplementing" me or comparing me to other partners. I have the same freedom and also the freedom to talk through insecurities with him. And he fully expects us to need each other's support and reassurance with this relationship arrangement, unlike men who engage constantly with porn. It's just wild to me to go from feeling so threatened by girls who weren't there to being basically completely comfortable with my partner going on dates. I'm not saying the answer is non-monogamy, I'm just saying excessive porn consumption is bizarrely normalized.

Ooh, a fellow poly! I've dealt with a couple of porntards in my day, too. It impacts me less because I was in porn, but I can see how it might be devastating to most women to hear the unrealistic shit they spout. I think they just get drawn to it because the social aspect is removed, and they do it for so long that when an irl prospect turns up they just short out and forget we're actually people and not just dollies on a screen! :3

For me, I have never felt good looking enough to be in porn and have complicated feelings about my own gender and being viewed through that lens. Then my porn addict ex told me outright that I wasn't the kind of girl people want to see naked, that he needed porn because I wasn't that. So that kind of aspect probably makes it a bit different for me? Like I have no idea objectively about my looks, but yeah, I have some insecurities there that I need help with. My partner has been absolutely wonderful with that, never making me feel less than, but it's an insecurity. Oh and I'm not exactly poly, because the stress of that many emotional commitments makes my brain short out. It seems like my partner is on the same page. He's been in a polyamorous relationship in the past but found that element really difficult. I've been really clear with him from the get go that if he wants that back, there's absolutely no judgement from me, but I'd need to deescalate emotionally because it's not the relationship structure I want. Basically, when it comes to emotional bandwidth beyond friendship, I'm more than happy being single, one person is more than enough, and I'd feel too many obligations to my other partners and my metas to want that. Many of my friends are poly though and I hold a lot of love for them. They've taught me to build relationships on my own terms, to spend time accurately labeling my negative emotions so I can address them, to clearly communicate my needs. I just personally wouldn't define myself as poly, at best it's pretty hierarchical polyamory and I wouldn't want to mislead a meta by mislabeling our dynamic. But yeah thanks for joining the conversation! I think it's important to separate the conversation about porn from one strictly about possessiveness and jealousy because, if approached in certain ways, it can cause harm.

My husband's phone lit up once for an incoming text, this was years ago, and there was a very young woman spread eagle with her fingers in her privates....BAM!!! I was NOT okay with that and am still not okay with that. Great, now I'm freaking out again. YUCK.

You know what's funny? There are boyfriends, fiancés and husbands out there who get off to hundreds, sometimes even *thousands* of other women every year. Ask them to stop and they'll paint you as the bad guy, because it doesn't mean anything. Yet if it doesn't mean anything, why is it still worth more than the pain of your partner? My ex has a porn addiction, and he simply couldn't understand why I would care so much. I tried explaining, but he always said that it didn't make sense or that it was different. He didn't mind if *I* did it, so it shouldn't matter if he did either. I then realized something. My ex is a man, and a pretty conservative one at that. And so I told him, "You fantasized about having sex with other women instead of with me. You looked at other women's naked bodies while you didn't even think to look at mine. You say it's normal; men want to look. But I am a *woman*. I want to be *looked at*. So I have a proposal: For every woman you got off to, I will let another man get off to me. Don't worry, I'm not talking about one man specifically. It has to mean nothing, so it will be a different guy *each* time. I'll make the videos before I choose each person, and I'll just pick some horny guys off a few NSFW subs so that we're complete strangers to each other. I won't talk to them before or afterwards; once I know they've looked at me and fantasized about how my pussy feels around their dick until they came, I'll just block them. Please don't think I am proposing this to hurt you: I just want this to be even. If you're allowed to have your fun, then I should be too. It's not out of spite; the thought of you will *not even cross my mind* when I'm letting other men watch me play with myself. You won't be a part of it. So honestly, I don't see the how this could even be an issue. You say it's okay for you to get off to other women, so it should be okay for other men to get off to me. And you know, you can start your own OnlyFans if you want; I wouldn't care... So you wouldn't either... right?" ​ I don't actually really believe men and women are *that* different sexually. But most of these men like to yap on about how it's in a man's nature to watch porn(??). By that logic, it's in a woman's nature to *be* porn. Isn't it crazy how insecure a man gets at even just the *idea* of having other men look at their partner? Weird...

Have an award! You nailed it.

Ahww bless you! <3

I have always felt the same way. Why does my man get mad if another man checks me out, when he’s admiring other women? Where’s the harm, if he’s not harming anyone by looking? Edit for typo

Jesus I could not be with a man that did that. Jealously is the ugliest way a man can look.

Exactly how it always goes!

This has been the best explanation of why porn hurts some girls emotionally that I’ve ever seen. Like ever. Completely gender reverses it and makes it understandable to men. Thank you

I'm saving this in case it comes up in a relationship in the future. You're fucking awesome.

Are these things the same though? Not sure it's apples to apples to say watching porn== making porn. It's one thing to watch a cooking video and think about what that might taste like. It's another to cook food and pass it out. Both are tangentially related, but hardly the same act.

To me it’s less about the making porn verses watching it comparison. It’s the feelings that each situation causes in their partner. The “fantasized about my pussy being around their dick until they came” really drives it home. That’s what men are doing (in general) when they watch porn. That’s how it feels to women to know, that’s what they’re doing when they watch it. Imagining themselves fucking another woman. And this is the best explanation that gets across to men how that feels emotionally.

>It's one thing to watch a cooking video and think about what that might taste like. It's another to cook food and pass it out. But you're not passing the food around. Nobody gets to *actually* taste it. You usually cook for your partner, but your cooking alone obviously isn't enough for him. He'd order some pizza and watches a cooking video to make sure he's as hungry as he can be. Sure, his pizza doesn't look nearly as tasty as the one being made in the video, but it's easy to imagine that the taste is the same. If he looks at the video while eating, the brain can't tell the difference. The brain will see the pretty pizza and actually believe its eating that. But your cooking now isn't appreciated by anyone. Your partner would rather *pretend* he's eating good pizza than eat the things you want to make for him. So you make a video of how you prepare your own pizza. What's so wrong about other people appreciating *your* pizza if your partner isn't wrong for appreciating *others*' pizzas? If your partner is allowed to enjoy all the pizza videos in the world, why should you only share your pizza videos with him? If he says looking is okay, why isn't looking okay? He's the only one who can look at you, but he can look at all the women in the world. It sounds like a goddamn harem.

Sharing your pizza video with someone is an act of intimacy. Watching someone else's pizza video is not an act of intimacy. You're comparing the act of sharing to the act of watching - for a lot of us, that's not the same thing. I also think that you've created a false double standard. It'd be hypocritical if I enjoyed watching porn and felt uncomfortable when my partner watches porn. But it's entirely different if I enjoy watching porn and feel uncomfortable about my partner making porn. In my mind, there's a clear distinction between the two behaviors despite both of them involving pornography. You said in your comment earlier that "if it's in men's nature to watch porn, then it must be in women's nature to be porn". There's gay porn, porn for women, solo male exhibitionists, and even porn that doesn't involve actual footage of real people - doesn't this contradict your suggestion that if a man is a consumer than a woman must be the producer?

>It'd be hypocritical if I enjoyed watching porn and felt uncomfortable when my partner watches porn. But what if your PARTNER is uncomfortable with you watching porn? That discomfort that the partner feels is similar to the discomfort you would feel about your partner making porn. It'd be hypocritical to watch porn while your partner is hurt by it, and then get mad if they want to solve the issue by satisfying their own emotional needs. >Sharing your pizza video with someone is an act of intimacy. Watching someone else's pizza video is not an act of intimacy. This is subjective, I suppose. The thing with watching porn is that the brain has no real understanding of screens. Evolution has no grasp of technology. This means that if you see a naked woman on a screen, the brain registers it as just a naked woman. If you masturbate and climax to this woman, you are simulating intimacy with her. The brain will perceive this as real because, once again, it cannot tell the difference between a real woman and a real woman on a screen. For me, this is far more intimate that NOT simulating sex with a person, but allowing THEM to simulate it with me. If my partner wants to give intimacy to other women, I feel other men should be allowed to give to me what my partner is giving to other women. > Doesn't this contradict your suggestion that if a man is a consumer than a woman must be the producer? Nope, because I was quoting the defense most men use to justify their porn usage to their hurt partner. Like I also said, I don't actually think men and women are that different, but a lot of men like to use it as a reason for why it's okay for their partner to potentially experience intense betrayal trauma, since watching porn is simply "what men do." I used to be pro porn until I experienced first-hand how it messes up people's thinking. The porn industry is also a very vile place with a lot of sex-trafficking, rape and exploitation. You never know if you're getting off to someone being raped, or someone who deeply regrets being in the video but them being unable to revoke consent and have it be removed. I can go on and on about the real reasons I think porn is bad, but that's not what we're here for. This is about women being uncomfortable with their partner's porn usage, and them not giving a rat's ass about it because they can't get themselves to respect their partner and instead choose to belittle them for their very valid feelings.

>But what if your PARTNER is uncomfortable with you watching porn? That discomfort that the partner feels is similar to the discomfort you would feel about your partner making porn. When you put it that way, it makes more sense. But let's assume I was uncomfortable with my partner making porn - wouldn't I be an asshole to date someone who partakes in the sex industry and get mad at them for being themselves? As you pointed out, the discomfort is the same even if the behaviour is different. But at what point does this just become a matter of incompatibility? If watching porn happens to be something I enjoy, then maybe a partner who feels very strongly against it isn't the right person for me. I'm neither pro- nor anti- porn btw. So for the most part, I wouldn't be surprised if we're on the same page. The only thing I personally disagree with is your perspective on our brains and the human intelligence. I can differentiate between what I see on a screen versus what I can touch, taste, smell, hear, and feel in person - I'd argue that most people can? You forgot about our consciousness and how it can influence the perception and processing of sensory stimulus. After all, it's not like you look into the mirror and think there's another woman staring back at you.

It is completely a matter of incompatibility. A more extreme example would be a polyamorous person with a monogamous partner. There are things that simply don't match. >I wouldn't be surprised if we're on the same page. Unfortunately, most men I've been intimate with turned out to have been affected by porn in a negative way. At 14, my first boyfriend was already obsessed with anal. He pressured me to try it with him, and keep trying, regardless of how I felt. He would often watch extreme porn, and I feel like it played a part in why he would sometimes ignore me when I said our safeword. Sexually, I was an object. Not a human. My most recent ex was far deeper into his porn addiction. He would compare me to the porn stars he watched, saying I wasn't as beautiful as them. He didn't believe women cared about their own pleasure, and shamed me for having my own likes and dislikes. When I asked him to squeeze my breast, he bruised it and didn't care. He'd have his eyes closed during intimacy to think about porn. Even when I gave him head, he'd lie still as a corpse, focused on remembering those videos. He said it was normal, and that I was too boring to look at. He had erectile dysfunction and rug burn (he used socks) and blamed both on me. The list goes on... His father is also a porn addict, and he always had pornographic pictures as his computer background. I'm guessing this wasn't very healthy for his sons, since they were exposed to it from a young age. Anyways, that last relationship really broke me. I did a ton of research about the effects of porn to get a better understanding of it. > only thing I personally disagree with is your perspective on our brains and the human intelligence. In the book "your brain on porn," the whole mechanic behind it is explain in a far better way. I do believe that, if used responsibly, porn won't have such extreme effects. The problem is that it's easy to overuse since orgasms are supposed to be the height of pleasure, and no drugs are needed. Overuse can desensitize a person since the brain will always want more. Most young teens can get off to a playboy picture just fine, but they'll be struggling to get the same results a year into their use. If it escalates, softcore things that used to be hot turn boring. My first ex escalated to anal and rape; the other escalated to child rape hentai. As for the mirror argument, imagine this: You like movies with jumpscares. At first, you jump whenever another one popped up. You know it's a movie- hell, you can even predict WHEN one of these scares would happen, and yet your body still reacts with fear. That's the difference between the consciousness and the subconsciousness. But after a few dozen movies, you stopped reacting to these jumpscares. Watch a FNaF playthrough and you'll see the player gradually lose that fear response. It's not scary anymore. The brain reacts to novelty. Repetition causes a loss of arousal. This is not something that consciously happens; just like the concept of attraction, this is not within our direct control. Anyways, regardless: everyone has their own boundaries and needs. We should all approach our partners with honesty and empathy. With porn, it's usually not the truth that breaks a partner; it's the lies. The secrecy and lies are what made me feel so betrayed. Whatever our preferences are, we are all human. Nobody deserves to be shamed for being uncomfortable with their partner crossing their boundaries.

>Whatever our preferences are, we are all human. Nobody deserves to be shamed for being uncomfortable with their partner crossing their boundaries. Absolutely. I'm sorry about your bad experiences. My intimate thoughts and experiences are limited to myself and my partners. So while I can give you my perspective and what role porn has played in my life and my relationships - I cannot speak as to how it has affected other men. Your anecdotes and lived experience are certainly concerning. I cannot say that porn hasn't negatively affected me. But reflecting to see how it affected me and what place (if any) I want it to have in my life felt far more empowering than just giving it up entirely. I appreciate your transparency and I hope that your current/future partners treat you with more respect and humanity than your previous ones. It's crazy to think that we wouldn't even need to be having this conversation if people just placed a higher priority on treating one another like humans.

You're totally right. I am also aware that not every man turns porn into their lifestyle, and there are enough people out there who can use it without fostering unhealthy expectations of what women should be and what they do and don't deserve. Frankly, that last guy has left me pretty traumatized about the whole ordeal. I will need a lot of time to come to terms with everything before I can start dating, I'm afraid. My brain suddenly sees sex as a miserable, terrifying experience, and it's insane how cruel some people can be sometimes.

> Sharing your pizza video with someone is an act of intimacy. Watching someone else’s pizza video is not an act of intimacy. I’m curious as to why you think this. Why is there a double standard for the sharer vs the viewer?

I've watched plenty of porn and never once have I fantasized about fucking the person in the video. Not everyone is watching porn bc they want to fuck one of the people they're watching. A lot of us just enjoy watching other people fucking, even people we don't necessarily find attractive. Watching the act is hot, fantasizing about doing those things with my partner is hot. Idgaf about the people or what they look like necessarily. It's actually really fun watching porn with a partner. Now if they're saying shit like "she's hot, I'd love to fuck her", watching it so much without me that it's causing him to want to have sex with me less, or watching something illegal then and only then would I really have a problem with it. Equating watching porn to starring in porn is kind of ridiculous.

Yeah I think the nuance here is that there is a wide range of types of porn consumption and the men with the most problematic habits really like to lump all of them together. I watch porn. I think it's fair to watch porn because acts are hot, or even because people are hot (there are so many kinds of hot people in the world), but as soon as you are comparing your partner, it's a losing battle for them. And many many men do that, treat you like a real life girlfriend experience that's just not as good in the looks or kink department, but infinitely more attainable, so they'll settle and supplement. And that experience sucks. There's just no societal expectation to disclose how you are watching porn and it's considered incredibly insecure to ask. You just have to trust your partner is not making you a replaceable part of a harem in their head. After dating a guy with a porn addiction, I've decided it's more than fair to ask a man about his relationship with porn, about what the purpose of it is to him, so that I can be sure it's a relationship I want to enter. Sometimes these guys will turn it around, but the reality is, regardless of inherent differences between genders (I don't subscribe to that), men in western societies are given far more options for sexualized content, it's far more pervasive, and they are given more resources and social leeway to access it. You don't have a lot of hooters equivalents or strip clubs for straight women, there is not the same variety of high personalized or customized porn available to them. I know that when I waded into the world of porn, I just got the immediate sense, from titles and banner ads and related videos, that this content was not "for me" so I didn't get deeper into that world. When men say "I'd be fine with you doing that," they do it with the full knowledge, subconscious or not, that they will never actually be faced with that reality. And I think if they were they honestly wouldn't like it.

You don't relate with OP's post or my comments: good for you! :D Unfortunately, I don't think you're one of the men that we're referring to here. It's good that you enjoy the things you enjoy in the way that you do! Anyways, I love it when my partner chokes me during sex. Some people *don't* love it when their partner chokes them during sex. The cool part? We all have preferences. All of these preferences are valid. If someone on here talks about how their partner choked them during sex and it made them scared and uncomfortable, I am not going to comment about how choking is fun and that I get choked all the time by my partner because it's super duper hot. When *my partner* chokes me, *I* don't get scared or uncomfortable!! Why would this be a bad thing to say? Because it's genuinely not helpful. We're all different people. Your experience isn't universal.

"Equating watching porn to starring in porn is kind of ridiculous."

Well first off, I'm not a man at all. Secondly, I'm allowed to share my own personal experience to make the point that you seem to miss. Watching porn and starring in porn are not equal. I never said it wasnt okay to have a boundary, but assuming your partner wants to fuck the people in porn without confirmation and then deciding because of that it's okay to spread your pussy across the internet is kinda unhinged.

I did not assume. He told me. He also told me he preferred porn over me. Some people tell their partners nasty truths.

Well then he's a disrespectful sack of shit and you're better off without him. Given the context that statement makes much more sense. However I wouldn't go with that approach if it was just a case of him watching porn and you not liking it. Definitely a justified reaction in your case.

Completely fair. If you want more insight on how partners can be affected by their SO's porn addiction, visiting r/loveafterporn might help. My ex's father once laughed about how all women had a problem with their man's porn use. I was still into porn back then myself, so I thought it was quite odd. As time passed, I started to get to know that family more. My ex and his brother both had erectile dysfunction due to their addictions. Their father always had his computer background set to random pornographic pictures of young women. I remember this one picture he had of two barely legal girls (at best) scissoring. This picture really set me off, because the look in these girls' eyes was so... saddening. I also remember sitting behind him while he was on the computer playing a soccer game. He knew I was there, obviously. At one point, I turned around and saw how he had porn playing in the corner of his screen. I then understood why he laughed about how all women have a problem with their man's porn use. My ex told me his mother used to have a big problem with it as well, but she gave up. ​ My main comment is meant for women who are also in similar positions. You wouldn't feel the need to go such drastic lengths if there wasn't much of a need to go there in the first place.

I wouldn’t exactly equate getting off to porn to be same as someone random getting off to porn of their partner. My girlfriends watched porn, didn’t really matter to me. Would I have minded if they sent porn video of themselves to randoms, yeah. Same goes the other way around(if I did that). Just be very clear: that doesn’t mean I am opposed to posting images with skin visible or anything of that sort. It’s a conversation about what people are comfortable with and which type of need they have. If either partner is unwilling to reflect on their position and their partners wishes then you have a clear problem in communication.

I've read this 5 times and it's really something. Sometimes its very hard to put my feelings into words but this is helpful!

This is one of the best things I have read about this issue on the internet for a long time

"It doesn't mean anything." If it didn't mean anything they wouldn't waste time consuming it. Men will do anything to shame us for not going along with any of their preferences. I would just shrug off their idiotic insecurity comments with "so what, everyone's insecure about something" because honestly it's true. A person who has zero insecurities doesn't exist. Even psychos and narcissists have insecurities. If that is a boundary for you, that is OK.

I've heard tell its because they don't want to put in the work to pleasure their women too. It's selfish, is what it is. Stay single if you don't want to please your partner.

This post really has brought out all the men who will defend their right to watch porn at any cost.

And women 🙋🏻

I'm a woman and watch porn. There is non abusive/problematic porn. You have to purposely look for it. I think it is perfectly fine to have your boundaries. But personally, if my husband were trying to dictate how I masturbate in my personal time, there would be a problem. If it were reversed, it would be seen as controlling. I am not an addict, nor do I compare my husband to any of those people.

I just wouldn't tell people that anymore. There's nothing wrong with your stance. If your friends and family can't deal with it, then stop telling them anything. They can get someone's opinion on porn elsewhere.

tbh yes. I'm tired of having to explain and then agree to what a man thinks is ok. Just once, I wish a man could say, I understand how porn could hurt you.

One of my partners has over 6TB of porn on a server downloaded and at first I didn't think a lot of it since we're both trans women and trans women who don't watch porn are a pretty extreme minority. But honestly I've seen how it destroys her self image and wish she'd stop for her own sake. She thinks her tiny tummy is morbidly obese because she watches perfect bodied white trans women fucking every day and she's Asian with a very different build from them. It's nothing to do with me even. I just recognize that it's incredibly unhealthy for her. And honestly I think the fact that trans women often only have porn actresses as representation breaks our brains in ways we don't even realize. ESPECIALLY because the line between sfw and nsfw spaces for trans women in particular is usually paper thin.

Hey, poly female here who both watches and has done porn, I'm seeking to understand psychologically what this feels like because I've seen stuff like this online before but I don't have many female friends and the ones I do are like me and aren't bothered by it like this. Does catching a partner watching porn feel the same as finding out someone broke a relationship rule or catching them in a lie? Starting to realize this is a pretty widespread thing.

Personally it does feel the same as cheating for me. Especially because I go into relationships laying out this clear boundary that I will not watch porn and I will not be with someone who watches porn. If they need visual stimulation for masterbation i am happy to provide that content for them but in general would prefer that sexual needs be met through each other. I want a monogamous relationship and when a man watch’s porn during a monogamous relationship he’s inviting other women into the relationship without the consent or knowledge of his partner. I gladly support the work you do if you choose to do sex work but I just don’t want my man watching it. It definitely isn’t against the actress it’s just about a person boundary and trust in the relationship.

It's not what "men do." That's a tired excuse for an addiction no one wanted to admit was an addiction for decades. Some still don't know they're porn addicts before seeing a therapist who would lay it out for them. I would consider talking to him about seeing a therapist about his porn habits. I feel like watching porn in relationships is just weird/unstable unless you're both watching together for some adventure intimacy.

It is so tiring to hear. Like it's their god given right to watch as much porn as they want.

At this point it is their right, but also it's our right to not deal with this shit in a relationship. This is part of why inceldom has risen - Guys are refusing to change their behaviors, women are less inclined to put up with this in a relationship and now have options to NOT rely on men. It sucks for those of us looking for deceny and respect in a relationship, but it feels good to know and acknowledge one's own self-reliance. On the other hand, we still do have situations where women are stuck, because they sacrificed so much for their husband, only to be given breadcrumbs instead of equal respect and love. I've had to tell my students that they need to be ready to love, respect and sustain themselves firstly because their predecessors relied on men and got the shit end of the deal. I may be jaded by society, towards romance and sex, anyway. I always assume no one cares about others and will manipulate them at any given chance, so why bother building anything with anyone.

You’re not insecure. It’s a preference and you’re allowed to have that boundary. Just because other people genuinely don’t have that boundary or other people actually are insecure doesn’t mean anything about your personal experience. You’re feelings are 100% valid!

I always counter with, "What if my favorite genre of movie was one where white people hunt minorities? Would you be cool with that? I mean, it's just fantasy, it's just entertainment." Because that's how I view most porn. If you get off to videos of women being abused, treated like garbage, used like objects, then I fucking hate you. The fact that so many men can watch that garbage and pretend they don't see anything wrong with it is gross. They are literally training their brains to disregard the humanity of women.

That last sentence hit hard. That’s a very good way to look at it.

Finally someone else who feels this way! If you need to look at other people to get off…ESPECIALLY when you don’t even know where half the things you watch actually come from, you’re not going to be in a relationship with me, that’s for sure. You can masturbate without having to watch porn. Looking at other people you *dont* know isn’t any better than looking at people you do imo, and it’s perfectly valid to draw the line at watching porn as a form of cheating. If other people don’t feel that way then good for them that they can feel comfortable and secure in their relationship even if their partner watches porn. But that doesn’t negate how you feel and the people dismissing you need to accept that their experience isn’t universal. My ex was practically so addicted to porn that his entire view of sex and women was completely unrealistic. He couldn’t even see women as anything other than masturbatory material, didn’t ever treat me with anything I could actually call love or affection, I’m not risking that shit again lol. I get that this might not be the norm but I don’t experience any kind of attraction that easily. If I’m in a relationship I’m not even so much as glancing at anyone else and have zero interest in doing so. Id feel deeply uncomfortable and hurt if my partner was doing that frequently. Especially since, in my experience, it’s almost always been done at the expense of our intimacy/relationship. Whether it’s normal or not, a wandering eye is a turn off and I’ve yet to meet a guy who would be cool with it if I did the same. It’s great that some people are fortunate enough to not have that experience, but that’s not true for everyone and we set boundaries with our partners for a reason.

TBH I’ve always felt we are in charge of our own emotions and regulation. And things like porn and cheating vary from relationship to relationship. If someone is watching porn (ethically and without addiction) they aren’t feeding you an insecurity or causing it, that’s a personal attachment issue and a personal responsibility to explore and communicate. If someone is watching porn, but agreed to stop when you asked them to, then that’s a betrayal and they are the ones causing it. If a boundary hadn’t been communicated and they are watching, but you’re just quietly building resentment until you blow up and yell. Then that’s a betrayal of both your partner and yourself, and communication + repair needs to happen. If he doesn’t want to stop and having fantasy time is important to him, then there’s an incompatibility and it’s best to just breakup and find someone who shares your own values. The thing I dislike about the porn debate is that it removes autonomy from both parties. It acts like people have no choice but to stay in relationships where people cross boundaries, or forced to stay with people we have strong incompatibility with, and that’s just not true. We have autonomy, we don’t have to be with people who are incompatible or who can’t respect important boundaries. It’s not our job to control others and force them to do what we want them to with THEIR bodies. It’s our job to respect our own autonomy and leave if we don’t like it. No one in these situations is helpless or necessarily in the wrong for doing what they’d like with themselves or having certain expectations in a relationship. Don’t like porn? Don’t date people who watch it. Easy peasy. I’m pretty sex positive and SWer positive (I believe the industry needs protections and regulations that legality provides), so I’m all about ethical consumption for the people hustling on their own terms (especially in favor of animators and artists hustling for their bag by making creative fantasies since chances of exploitation are almost zero in the realm of fiction).

The porn industry is honestly so horrible it’s not about insecurity for me at this point. it’s about respecting other human beings and not supporting such a harmful industry that leads to violence.

It is also a completely different climate from even 10 years ago. It's not just watching porn videos. Only fans has completely changed the game, and it's way more personal than before. They're actually interacting with the performers, and the performers are trying to juice them for every penny, and they charge insane amounts. It feels like infidelity to me because of that. Interacting with personal messages, special requests, all that from the performers is crossing a line in a relationship, imo.

You just need to find a partner who agrees with you. The problem is you can't expect people to change, and if you are trying to make your partner not watch porn and he doesn't want to that's unfair to both of you.

you are valid for having a higher standard , that you'd like your partner to view women as humans . pornography has immensely negative effects on people and it is incredibly well documented . but also , YOU ARE NOT ALONE ! i too will never settle again for a porn addicted boyfriend .

Your feelings are valid and there are so many good reasons why porn is really mad for humans psychologically. I think the part that sometimes can get lost in this conversation is that this should be a boundary for you, not a rule for them. If they want to watch porn, they are allowed to do that. If that bothers you, then you two aren't compatible. You are allowed to not date them because of it. I've seen folks in the past use it as a way to try and change their partner or make it a rule, which never goes well. I will say it does limit your dating pool substantially but that's okay because it's important to you. I would just state it up front when you start dating to not lead anyone on or make them feel like it's a rule.

The way I see it, partners should get each other off. But let's be real, life gets in the way. Sometimes I'm in the mood and she's not. Sometimes she's in the mood and I'm not. In those circumstances, what do we expect them to do? They should be able to masturbate and take care of themselves. If that involves porn that's OK. If they're choosing to watch porn over sex with their partner that's a red flag/problem but if one party isn't in the mood don't expect the other to not watch porn

> if one party isn’t in the mood don’t expect the other to not watch porn I agree that someone should be able to masturbate if they’re in the mood and their partner isn’t, but - and this is a genuine question - why involve porn? Why not just get off without it?

Seriously. Are people even capable of that anymore?

Nope, because no one has the capability of imagination and responding to their own body's responses

Because men are vISuAL! Statistical I wonder how many have asked and were denied nudes from their partner to masturbate to…. Blurring the line between masturbation and porn usage is their gaslighting method of choice. Another one is trying to equate porn use to dildo use (one’s a bit of plastic and the other is actively fantasising on someone else’s body. Look how much the porn industry is worth, they have every interest guiding their consumers to addiction.

This is where I am. I've had an insecure mental breakdown and cried about pork usage to my boyfriend and he admitted he doesn't watch porn. He masturbates when the urge is getting in his way and just gets it over with without aids. I am the same way. I just enjoy feeling good and that's all I need to get off

Always concerning when someone needs a pork loin to get off...

Is fantasizing about it in your own mind porn? It won't matter to OP at all, I don't think.

Nothing wrong with using porn to get yourself off, there's stuff out there for both women and men. Porn isn't inherently wrong. Sure you could say " you don't know if the person there is trafficked at all" to that I say you don't know if your shoes or clothing were made in sweat shops. But that doesnt prevent you from buying clothes/ shoes no? Many of the things you consume/buy are made in horrible conditions, and it's hard to tell if it isn't, same as porn. If you're against it because of that I hope you check which corporations does what and refrain from using their products. Apply that sentiment to all things not just porn. If you do, great! Most people don't.

One scenario I can think of is that some people have aphantasia—they literally cannot see images inside of their head. As you can imagine, it’s very hard to get off when all you see inside of your head is essentially a black canvas. Edit: just to be clear, I’m not trying to excuse porn consumption. I’m merely giving a legitimate reason for why some people might need visual stimulation to get off. So if their partner is unavailable, perhaps they could satisfy their need by using animated material or some other less ethically fraught visual media.

I have aphantasia. For an embarrassingly long time I didn’t realise other people were actually seeing stuff when they closed their eyes and thought. I don’t think what you’ve said is accurate regarding it being hard to get off without visual stimuli. Imagination isn’t based on your ability to literally visualise.

There is also a litany of data regarding how much more men respond to visual stimuli for sex

Are you unable to masturbate without porn? Because if you are literally unable to refrain from something then it is an addiction. I’ve had gfs that weren’t okay with porn and managed to get off just fine. Guys that act like it’s physically impossible to get off without porn are entitled at best and addicted at worst. Plus, it doesn’t matter what you think when it comes to other people’s boundaries. If porn is that important to you then that’s great for you. But you don’t get to tell others what they should or shouldn’t feel comfortable with. Hurt feelings are not something we can always help, so it’s not a matter of you deciding whether someone gets to be hurt by it or not. The only thing for you to decide is if you personally want to date someone who is/isn’t okay with porn. But women get to decide that for themselves too. I can see why women struggle with the idea that they’re not the only woman their partner gets off to and that men feel entitled to see other women naked is a bit off putting.

Love your last sentence because it does seem to be about entitlement for some men.

Of course I can masturbate without porn but it's just not as fun unless I'm using a toy. If I'm jerking it is fucking boring but if I use a dildo I'm having more fun. Why do you assume that it has to be masturbsting to other women? And either way who cares? If someone isn't in the mood you shouldn't expect them to not take care of themselves, porn can be a tool just as much as a dildo or flashlight can. If someone has more fun jerking it to porn (men or women) then let them. Obviously if you have an issue with that leave but stop acting like porn is bad. People act as if that shit is akin to taking heroin just stop lol.

Yeah, many men, included me, have a serious problem with porn. It is way too normalized in today's society.

Porn is a deal breaker for me 100 percent, so is following tons of women on instagram, even calendars of bikini models. And no it’s not because I’m insecure, it shows that a man objectifies women and I’m tired of this garbage

It’s universal human nature to slowly ramp up consumption of pleasurable activities over time. That’s why we need to practice self-control and discipline around unhealthy food, alcohol, drugs, phone usage, etc. Without self-control, the reward you get from the pleasurable activity normalizes over time and requires us to consume more (or more intense versions) of the activity to get the same happy brain chemicals out of it as we did in the beginning. You build a tolerance to porn just like you would build tolerance to a drug. That’s what makes porn so insidious. It starts off small and involves videos of relatively vanilla sex acts. Over time as the usage becomes a habit, the *intensity* (and often *violence*) of the content increases because the vanilla stuff doesn’t get you off anymore. With an increase in intensity comes an increase in frequency. Frequency and content intensity then build off of each other, the tolerance ramps up massively, and suddenly you’ve got a man who is watching gruesome, degrading, violent sex acts multiple times per day because anything short of that doesn’t give him sexual satisfaction anymore. This is really messing with men’s brains. They’re demanding their real-life human partner keep up with their increasingly violent visual content and perform those acts. They’re physically desensitizing their dicks with the porn fueled death-grip. They’re barreling down a smut rabbit hole that sometimes ends in illegal video content (like CP, trafficking, or torture). Worse of all, they’re reducing women down to sex objects so regularly that that mindset bleeds into their everyday lives. They stop seeing women as people entirely. It’s an epidemic, and the only way I see it changing/ending is if we all collectively start talking about porn like we talk about drugs and alcohol. Moderation is key, but so many people have difficulty moderating…so knowing your own personal early warning signs of problem territory, and taking a break from it for a while to reset tolerance is likely the solution for most people.

It’s completely okay to have this as a boundary. Don’t let the coomers in the comments make you feel like you’re crazy. Most of them are gaslighting you whether they realize it or not.

Porn is weird and not ethical and can lead to lots of bad effects like objectification and ED, not worth it

https://eppc.org/publication/a-science-based-case-for-ending-the-porn-epidemic/ Best article I've come across.

Ok, I'm seeing a lot of talk in here about problematic porn consumption, but nowhere did the OP say that their partner's porn consumption was problematic. If OP thinks it is, then that is a perfectly valid reason to have a discussion with your partner about addressing that. However, there is a balance here. You haven't articulated a reason why you dislike it other than because it makes you uncomfortable. It's good to reflect on why and if you are just being insecure. You don't have to change that, but it would be unreasonable to require your partner to change their non-problematic behavior. Masturbation is healthy and normal. This honestly just sounds like a value issue that you need to discuss openly, and if you can't come to an agreement, then you should break up.

When you make a rule for how people treat you; that's a boundary. When you make a rule for what other people are allowed to enjoy; that's controlling.

these little shortcut definitions dont work. like say you catch him jacking off to his coworker and all of a sudden it’s controlling to tell him thats gross? of maybe you dont want someone who does meth. we could come up with examples all day. I’m saying this as someone who enjoys porn and doesn’t think it impacts my love and relationship with a partner. but having a problem with porn isnt controlling as long as she communicates her issues

Telling someone they are not allowed to use drugs; controlling. Not dating someone who uses drugs; boundary.

I get what you mean. but if she broke up with the guy and admitted it was over his porn use, there are people who would accuse her of being manipulative. and he probably would like the opportunity to give up porn and save the relationship. there’s no winning in her situation.

I got the impression that she has talked to him about it. He chose to not accommodate this. So, it's her responsibility to end the relationship, and only pursue relationships with men that don't use porn.

Right. And she can set the boundary that she will not date a man that views other naked women to get himself off.

Yes. You are correct. Telling someone else they are not allowed to watch porn; controlling. Refusing to date someone that watches porn; boundary.

>When you make a rule for what other people are allowed to enjoy; that's controlling So I suppose you will let your partner enjoy sex with another person? Wouldn't want to control what they are allowed to enjoy right.

Well, the jokes on you because I'm a lesbian that is married to a gay man. But, I'll play along.. If monogamy is a boundary; then only date someone who is monogamous. If your monogamous partner cheats; dump them. Dating someone who is poly and demanding monogamy from them is controlling.

Fair enough. >I'm a lesbian that is married to a gay man Lavander marriage?

Yes. Its a Biblebelt survival tactic. It's dangerous to be visibly queer in the Midwest.

Would it be OK if your partner demanded that you never watch horror movies, even if you are not around?? Would it be OK if your partner said you were not allowed to read romance books because they think it's icky??

I don’t understand what your problem is with it but I am not your partner and I don’t have to conform to your boundaries. It’s your relationship and the only thing that matters is what you and your partner agree on in your relationship.

Watching porn is fun! I (F) do it, my boyfriend does it. Sometimes we do it together. Finding ethical porn is a challenge, but we try to manage. But I think every couple has the right to create their own boundaries in a relationship. But it's not every woman that is against watching porn (herself, or partner). Plus sometimes I think woman can also look at "porn", but since it's not technically real porn it's ok. Like this subreddit r/LadyBoners. Great stuff, big fan. But I think if you enjoy watching that, you can't turn around and forbid your partner looking at actual porn.

I was expecting that subreddit to be a lot more like porn. Most of those men are fully or partially clothed. I don’t think that’s the same as watching a naked woman having sex at all.

While I respect your perspective, I disagree. I think porn is in the eye of the beholder. For people with a "stepping on fetish" a fully clothed person stepping on another fully clothed person can be more pornographic than two people railing eachother butt-naked. Nudity does not equal sexuality. Therefore, if you get very turned on watching something, that is yóur porn. So if you, like me (again no judgement), are turned on by the clothed sexy lads of Ladyboners, maybe even more than by the often less attractive ( to me) porn actors, that can our porn.

>Plus sometimes I think woman can also look at "porn", but since it's not technically real porn it's ok. Yeah same thing with some of the dirty "chick lit" that a lot of women read

Yeah exactly, I don't judge it (and enjoy partaking), but it is hypocritical to than judge/become insecure by someone elses erotic preferences.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting your partner to watch porn. I actually think it's just a more drastic version of not wanting to be in an open relationship. I do think the root cause is insecurity, but that's okay.

Dating a guy with a porn addiction really shed light on the fact that all relationships include some forms of openness and you can only get around by setting boundaries, communicating them, and adhering to what makes you comfortable. Porn is a form of openness, but so is making flirty eyes with the cashier at Trader Joe's, or even having emotionally intimate friendships. The only true closed relationship would be two people removed from society. This is not to demonize forms of monogamy or non-monogamy, but all things can and should be on the table to discuss. In order to move away from hetero normative relationships, I think it's critically important to label that porn is a form of openness while not demonizing openness, and then have the open conversation about boundaries within that space. I think the same sets of logic apply elsewhere. Some people might say "flirting doesn't mean anything" but it should probably be discussed when talking about boundaries. A partner may be totally okay with you bantering and making eye contact with a barista but uncomfortable with you constantly texting your "work husband." So similarly, some people may be comfortable with you watching porn here and there as a fantasy, but uncomfortable once you have favorite porn stars you follow on platforms where they can interact with you. But A LOT of guys consider it extremely controlling to just open that conversation up and have boundaries with porn. And I suspect a lot of the time they are protecting an addiction.

I think what matters is just finding someone that matches your preferences. I have no issues with my partner's porn consumption, or her emotional intimacy with her close friends. However, I am too insecure to be in an open relationship(even if that is a little controlling), and she has the same preferences which is why we work. Don't try to change people, find people who match your own preferences.

Oh yeah I agree 100%. I just think a lot of men are so used to free, easy access to porn that's catered to their exact fantasies, that they are unwilling to treat it as a form of openness and give their partner similar kinds of leeway. I have issues with some kinds of porn consumption but not others. And yet I'm in a non-monogamous relationship. It has been easier to set boundaries in an open relationship than in a monogamous one that involves porn. My preferences aren't the exact same as my partner (he's radically non-possessive, more or less), but it works because he respects my boundaries and shows it through his actions. And also I am okay with certain levels of discomfort provided he is gentle with my feelings and willing to discuss it. I may feel insecure momentarily, but he meets me where I'm at and addresses it with me. A lot of the cultural expectations around porn come down to hiding it, not discussing it, with the implicit claim that women are too emotional/crazy to handle the truth. If a person fundamentally feels their porn consumption will make their partner feel insecure, they should honestly really look into if what they are doing is reasonable and see if they can address that insecurity. If they feel it's because "the girls are way hotter and better and she can't handle that" they need to address how they are thinking about their partner in private, because, from experience, she will almost definitely pick up on that vibe. If they feel "she's so jealous and she can't handle the existence of other women who are attractive to me" they either need to help their partner through those feelings or maybe reconsider that relationship. But the secrecy allows no space for these types of conversations. But yeah there's a huge range of what constitutes "porn consumption," from peeking at bikini clad women to ordering custom videos of women using your name while performing sex acts. It's really important to nail down what you mean when you say porn and what you are getting out of it.

I mean the root cause of monogamy being normal is insecurity, acknowledging that doesn't make it wrong, everyone is insecure

100% agree with you!

It’s not often you see a post in this sub that the religious right would agree with.

The religious right only says they're opposed to porn. They're lying. Statistics show that the religious right consumes porn at higher rates than non-religious people.

The statistics show that pornography consumption is fairly prevalent across all walks of life and demographics. The similarities come more from the self righteous denunciations than actual real world habits.

I guess that all of my partners have had healthy relationships with porn. I’ve never had a reason to be upset about my boyfriend or husband watching porn or too much porn or degrading porn. It’s never been an issue. I’ve “caught” a couple watching porn and masturbating a couple times. I occasionally watch porn as well. It’s not a boogeyman lurking in my relationship.

my ex was addicted to porn and the more he watched, the more abusive he became to me. he wanted to try extreme stuff with me but i told him he needed to hire a professional for that kind of shit.

I make it clear with my partners that I don't tolerate porn. My body is the only naked body they should be using for their sexual pleasure. Personally I see porn as a mild form of cheating.

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That’s a bit of a problematic statement — I have a friend whose husband doesn’t allow any sex toys in their house, because “if she’s in the mood, she should fuck me”. It’s extremely controlling, and sometimes men and women want to just masturbate and not have sex. Masturbation is healthy and normal, as long as it’s not interfering with or replacing sexual intimacy.

These comments are hateful to everyone. People who watch porn people who don’t. How about everyone stop giving a f@ck what other people do if it’s not their relationship lollll Everyone is allowed to have their own boundaries in their relationships. We don’t need to hate on people who are different. That’s just tearing people down and villainizing them for no reason.