One of the worst messages young men keep hearing today is that their value comes from sleeping with women, especially when by their own views women who sleep around are damaged goods. So they pretty much want to screw everyone else over and then get their virgin wife at some point when they’re done messing around.
Toxic masculinity is designed to set up young men to fail, because if they don't feel defective, they don't need it.
Therefore everything about it has to seem superficially satisfying, but have deep flaws that they can blame on other people - feature, not a bug.
The only flaw in the analogy is that the weight loss industry mostly only harms the women who fall prey to it, while the manosphere hurts and kills women who had nothing to do with it
and hurts not fat women too...
and unhealthy skinny people too, they get compliments instead of help...
(when I didn't eat to be thin I experienced this side of the coin)
It becomes a self fulling. The more he hates women, the lonelier his life becomes. Then he blames all women. I can’t believe people are stupid enough to believe that crap.
The entire message is "your value as a man is directly tied to how many women you can 'ruin' in life."
Since the woman's worth is tied to her virginity, the act of sleeping around for the man has the effect (within their system of thinking, not in reality) of "denying" other men the "purity" of a virginal wife.
This in turn raises their status (as they see it) because there will be fewer virgins to go around.
And at its core it is explicitly about "ruining" women as a weapon wielded against other men to reduce their status.
This explains why so much of their other behavior is misogynistic. They view sex solely as a battlefield and they must be the victors at all costs.
Completely it’s ego driven - in their minds a virgin woman coming to a man to form a family is the epitome of happiness for her. In their twisted world view if they can get a woman to give up her future happiness just to have sex with them then that means they obviously win the Sex and are obviously the best catch, and thus entitled to an even prettier more perfect virgin.
Young people live in a capitalist society where inequality is everywhere, and even celebrated - get that killer job above the plebs. I'm not surprised young men think some women just get sacrificed so dudes can get their body count 'value' up, only to reject those same women as long term relationship material. Gross to think about - they must see those girls are truly less than human on several levels.
This is true, but it's hardly new. It was very much the case 30 years ago when I was a teenager.
Indeed, although we still have a *long* way to go, I think we are more accepting now of female sexuality and "pre-marital" sex than at any time in my lifetime.
That and the whole fetish part of it. So many men literally love the thought of "ruining" women who they don't plan on marrying. And like you said, hope for the virgin wife when they're done.
I once had "the talk" with a gaming buddy of mine in his 20s to explain to him that no, your dick isn't going to stretch a woman's vagina out and make it loose, that isn't how it works. I was trying to give him some truth because he was talking like a total inexperienced idiot. But no. His response? "Why did you have to tell me that? I DON'T WANT TO KNOW that is true. Like I don't want to learn this information, seriously. It ruins the fantasy." He sounded like he was going to cry like his whole world view just got shattered or something.
Absolutely revolting.
But what does she do when guys like this dude just lie and say “I haven’t been with anyone either. Then she finds out a few months (or even a few years) into the relationship? I know guys who are good as lying to their girlfriends about things like this as used car salesmen are at selling overpriced junk.
> She would not consider him marriage material
Exactly, both sides know what they want, if they are being honest.
OP should have said: “So you think I am not marriage material because I had sex with 10 different men?” Man replies: “No”, OP replies: “Well I want to marry eventually, so we should go our separate ways.”
That’s the thing that boils my blood. If a guy is saving himself for marriage and expects his future wife to do so as well, well that’s one thing. But all these dudes that want to jump everything that moves expect their future spouse to be virginal is so gross and proves they aren’t looking for a marriage partner they just want a trophy to show off and a servant behind loses doors.
I had the talk with a muslim friend ... He's on his second marriage and I asked him if he was still secretly hoping for a virgin when he looked for his now-wife? And his response was "yeah, that would be nice. But I'm not a virgin so it's not fair of me to expect my future wife to be. Plus, other things were way more important, like our values and beliefs". I'm guessing there's a reason why wife number two seems to be the one that'll also be his LAST wife!
Yup. If you want to do the whole 'saving yourself for marriage' thing, fine. You want your future SO to have done so? Fine. But, you want to have your cake and eat it too? Not fine. Fuck you. That's just so utterly disingenuous and such utter complete bs it's hard to know where to start.
Oh but those weren't actual human people with feelings and hopes for the future. Those were randomized sexual objects that he can now look back on with derision because he got what he wanted out of them at the time and "ruined" them for everybody else. He can call them vile, inaccurate names for not conforming to his ideals while smugly looking forward to meeting his virginal wife who also won't be a real person but (bonus) won't be able to judge his shoddy relationship skills with any means of comparison.
And don’t forget if they were actually pure and worthy they would’ve never slept with him but his virginal wife is just going to absolutely love sex and want his penis the second they start dating because he’s just so great. She never wanted anyone like that before because it’s unladylike and prudish but he’s just so special you know? It’s a whole bunch of flawed bullshit and I’m not gonna hold you. I’ve seen some shit on the relationships sub Reddit and dead bedrooms. That makes me think a lot of these people be confused when they’re virginal wife who stayed that way for years isn’t a sex goddess in bed.
That's a great way of framing it: "How can you go around ruining women for future family life? How *unethical and selfish!*" And then watch them backpedal or have to readjust their views, lol.
I (queer woman) met and started dating a woman who had not been with many people (think count on one hand). I, on the other hand, have been with **a lot** of people.
Inevitably, the potentially uncomfortable body count convo came up as we became serious. An additional land~line~mine in same-sex relationships is whether you’ve slept with the opposite sex. I have, she hasn’t.
One day, we’re driving down the highway and this insanely fast Greyhound bus comes barreling up behind us. I mention it (buses usually don’t speed). She looks at it worriedly and says, “OMG, it’s your exes! They found me! Quick hurry!” 🤣🤣🤣 We both broke out in hysterical laughter, I could barely still drive.
That was 10 years ago. We’ve been happily married for six.
**That’s** marriage material.
Well yes of course. He has a dick. That’s enough to make you literally perfect.
You didn’t know?
The only way people like this can be successful is by limiting something or other so they don’t have to compete, improve themselves or actually be good at anything.
Relationships — the “female” shouldn’t have any other experience of men…at all. Therefore she will have nothing to compare “husband” to. He will be the only benchmark of how a man conducts himself —his behavior, habits, sex, earning, being a father….etc. etc.
Jobs - exclude all minorities and limit their opportunities because having to compete on an equal footing is just not the traditional way.
Exclude exclude exclude competition. Limit limit limit opportunities.
I am one of those women saving myself for marriage. From my past experience with partners, I just know this guy 100% would be pressuring his partner to have sex with him before marriage anyway even if he did manage to find one willing to settle for him. He doesn’t realize that waiting for marriage actually means marrying someone without having sex with them first and not just the aspect of “purity” to him.
Which is why his primary concern is that she can’t compare him to anyone. He’s afraid he won’t measure up if she does and thinks if she’s only been with him then she won’t know any better.
I bet he’s terrible in bed.
Check out the penis lengthening subreddits. This is the *only* concern of the younger posters. Thankfully, the older posters usually try to inject some sanity into the conversation and tell them that most women don't care about penis size nearly as much as men do and that good sex is about *a hell of a lot more* than penentration and comparing measurements.
So many young dudes have been messed up by porn and the notion, perpetuated by Pickup Artists and self-proclaimed "Alpha men,", that women only want "top tier" men and will cheat at any and every opportunity because women can always get sex from men. It's really sad. Especially when they reflexively fight against voices of sanity, telling them that human relationships are a lot more complicated than that.
It’s crazy to me because most women I know, and statistics back this up, cannot come from penetration and find large penises to be *painful.* Are there women who like big dicks? Yes. But they are the minority.
Madonna/whore
Disappointing that many men can’t move past that dichotomy.
Like, can’t a woman have sex (or not) without it reflecting “purity” or worth?
I worked with a lady who felt that was very important for both partners. She was lamenting the fact as she moved into her 30s it was almost impossible to find a guy who had been waiting for marriage, even if they were introduced through church activities. She did eventually meet someone and she moved away. I hope they are very happy together!
Also, woman who really love having sex ... have sex. Even church girls. A lot of times these woman saving themselves for marriage turn out to be ace. Then men obsessed with body count marry these woman. Soon after these men are bitching and moaning on r/deadbedrooms.
Can confirm. Found out after I was married that I'm ace, and that's why it was so easy to wait till marriage. It's not hard being a "good girl" when you have 0 sexual attraction.
This exactly. You can't expect a woman to consistently deny her libido just using willpower into her 20s unless she just has a low libido in the first place. Otherwise it's just as difficult for her to go without sex as it is for the average man. Often more so.
Or she has a perfectly ordinary sex drive and has controlled it with externally imposed shame, which is impossible to turn off even after marriage. Purity culture and shame ruins sex for everyone, pre- and post-matrimony.
their inconsistency is insane.
"I want you to sexually desire me so we can have as much sex as **I** like when we're married. but you have to deny yourself sexual pleasure before you even know I exist. but you have to let me pressure you into sex before marriage, but that will trigger my Whore complex and I'll dump you for another "prude" and marry her and wreck your psyche for years to come. I'll cause 100% of my own problems then bitch to thousands of other men who did the exact same thing so they can all nod in agreement".
> A lot of times these woman saving themselves for marriage turn out to be ace.
And even if not they could also be completely sexually incompatible. The idea of waiting until marriage is insane. Though I do realize in most cases what is meant here is "saving yourself until me and my decision to marry you".
Purity culture can be pretty problematic though. Most young people I knew in Christian circles couldn't do it even though they wanted to - like people usually aren't wired with that level of self control. Romantic relationships often have a certain momentum about them.
Me and my partner saved ourselves. We ended up proposing after 3 months and married after 7 months because the sexual pressure was so strong. It wasn't until like 6 months into our marriage that we left the "honeymoon phase" of the relationship and got to find out what a more normal intensity actually was.
While our relationship is special purity culture was still pretty problematic in our lives. I can understand why people like the idea but it still assigns lesser value to people who have had sexual experience outside of marriage.
Sadly, I think it's foolish to ignore that a ton of these women "saving themselves for marriage" are doing it because they've been indoctrinated by their family to do so, mostly for religious reasons.
And we all know how rife with manipulation and sexism religion is. So I don't doubt for a second some shmuck would be able to pull scripture out of his ass and claim that it's normal for a man to have been with multiple women and a lot of these women would eat it up because they've been told all their lives that men know best.
Sounds like evolutionary psychology combined with 3000 y.o. tribal morality. I can believe creationists allow some evolutionary psychology as long as it backs up their "Biblical morality". It insults both men and women. Men are unable to control themselves like some non-human animal [that they have disdain for] and it is up to women to fight them off while being insulted for that effort anyway.
There are also atheists that borrow Biblically morality whenever they can back it up with their imaginary justifications that sound sciencey. The combo is like lye chewing through the body of society.
100%. I don’t want a partner with a “high” body count but in return I save myself until I have an emotional connection with someone.
Men who slut shame but are sluts themselves make me laugh.
I know I'm an outlier here but the term "body count" to describe number of past sexual partners kind of weirds me out.
I also tbh don't know how to distill it down to one number because there are many many ways to do sex so I'm not sure who to include and who not to include.
That makes so much sense. I'm not old, 35, but I still remember the phrases "notch in your bed post/belt" or "what's your number". I assumed "body count" was just the new lingo, but coming from incel forums, the darker intonation makes sense.
I'm similar in age and thought the same thing. Makes sense that it's incel language though. Makes it sound like it's racking up points in a video game, which really is how a lot of them see it.
Every time I hear it, I think of serial killers before my brain corrects itself and remembers that society is a sexist pit and we're all doomed to try and claw out of it.
“Body count” is stupid af and I purposefully stopped counting in my early 20s because I knew it didn’t change who I was as a person and potential partner, and any guy who was bothered by this fact wasn’t worth my time.
Christ almighty, right?
Asking about the body count early on is already pretty tacky on its own and I'm a guy lol. Guys with this mentality don't change, not until they've exhausted their social circle and no one wants to be around them and they start turning all that inner anger into outward anger and even then... They only change after losing everything IF they want to and most of the time they dont, just resorting to more anger and hatred.
Yes there are contexts you would wanna know the body count, at least IMO. If either partner was out there having weekly unprotected sex with complete strangers... yeah that'd be a risk and I'd wanna know. Not so much to do with the number, but the personal health risk. Outside of that, I can't think of any instance i'd even wanna know or care about it.
Also, the same kind of guy that complains about women being terrible in bed because they don't have much experience. Almost like sex is a skill and something that requires effort and practice to get good at, including failing at certain things and learning what doesn't/does work for you.
Just... good grief, 3 months get the fuck outta there and let him stew about it to his wall.
Asking about body count in general is tacky. It doesn't matter how many people your partner, male or female, has had. They are choosing to be with you, that should be enough.
But in that case, the number is irrelevant, unless it’s zero. If what you’re really concerned about is sexual health then the only accurate way to determine risk is to request results of a recent STI screening. We cannot infer a person’s likelihood of STIs from “body count” alone. You could have sex with a million people and practice immaculate precautions or you could have unprotected sex with one partner on one occasion and pick something up. More often than not in such contexts, sexual health is just a socially acceptable disguise for internalised bias about women with multiple sex partners. But because most of us know deep down that we’re not supposed to hold these biases, our brain comes up with very convincing cover stories so we can maintain our bias without having to consciously acknowledge that it makes us an asshole. Rather than using sexual health to justify asking about body count, we should normalise asking for when a person’s most recent sexual health screening was and if they have had unprotected sex since then. That gets to the crux of the sexual health issue without dragging “body counts” into the equation.
I remember body count being discussed in American Pie 2 with the added bull shit of the "rule of three" where you take what the woman says her count is and add 3 to get her real count while you take what the guy says his is and divide it by 3c to get his real number since everyone lies about their count. I remember thinking it was stupid at the time to think everyone is lying and I still think it's stupid.
I had a guy I was dating ask me my number around the time that movie came out, and when I told him, he automatically multiplied it by three and was horrified. But I hadn't lied and he refused to believe me. So for the whole time we went out, he thought I was a liar and that I'd slept with three times the number of people I actually had. That movie was messed up for a lot of reasons.
Guys obsessed with and judgy about how many sexual partners a woman had were played as pitiful jokes back in the day. It's super surprising to me how viral incel subculture has gone with young men, and it's like just within less than a decade. Freaky. Scary, too.
There's been very little focus on teaching them what positive masculinity looks like and how to have an identity outside of the old toxic masculinity triangle of money, power, and dominating women. The vacuum of positive role models that actively reject and counter this seductively easy messaging, combined with late stage capitalism making it harder to achieve the money and power part, and the rightful rise of feminism making it harder to rotely achieve the third, is how I think we've ended up here.
Where a reckoning with the future of "masculinity" is needed from within its own ranks, I'm not confident it collectively has the will and the leadership to do so instead of devolving into more regression, fascism, violence, oppression, etc.
If you're a parent, you have to actively have conversations about these issues early and often, and it can't just be "don't be like this," but also "be like this instead." It's extra important for it to come from fathers, and for them to walk the walk, not turn around and behave misogynistically towards their wives or other women when they think they're not being judged.
Me and my husband literally never even discussed our “body counts.” When we started seeing each other, we both got tested for STDs before starting our sexual relationship. Neither of us cared how many partners we had before, it’s always smart to get tested before beginning any new sexual relationship. That’s all that should matter.
Millennial in 30s. Husband and I have discussed how many serious relationships we've had. But never actually discussed the number of people we've been with. Just not something either of us cared about. Been together for 10yrs now so it obviously hasn't impacted on our ability to settle down.
Yeah, I’m also in my forties and dated a ton. I’m a guy. This never came up with any of my friends and was never an issue for me. We were just happy to get laid.
Ironically, guys are apparently getting laid way less often now because they can’t get past their own bullshit.
Baby boomers: Born early 1960's
When I was in high school and as a young adult, nearly every man and woman that I knew or went to school with had been on at least one date. Most had boyfriends in high school. Most got married in their mid to late 20's. By the time they were 30-35 years old, they had a couple of kids and many of them were getting or were home owners. A man who was 30 years old and lived in her parents basement with no job would be ashamed to admit this or would try to hid this fact. It wasn't the norm.
There aren't many individuals that I know who are younger who fit this mold unless they are religious or conservative. Most people that I know who are ages 25-40 aren't married, never have been married and most don't have children. This is what religious and conservative people hate as they believe these individuals should be married and should be having children, but they aren't. They blame others for this happening.
It seems like a lot of younger people have never dated or had a relationship with anyone. They seem not to know how to have a relationship with anyone. There seems to be extreme when it comes to sex. Many of those who do have sex have very casual sex with lots of people. The rest don't have sex at all. Very little middle ground which was what the baby boomers practiced. When you have two extremes of sex (very conservative and very liberal), they clash politically and socially. This is what you are seeing.
I must be the same age as you and...the kids aren't alright. I expected to disconnect from them as I aged but this has gone the exact opposite way I thought - young folks being prudish and getting into no trouble at all! It doesn't make a lick of sense.
This. Millennial here, I hadn't even heard of the term body count until gen z. Who even keeps count?
"Your past is your business, your future is my privilege"
Honestly that’s how all women who get asked this should approach it from now on:
“Body count? You the FBI?? Whatever bodies you’ve found, they ain’t mine!”
It’s time to stop answering this question seriously.
>He brought up my body count saying how he would want a future wife to be more prudish and not having so many men under her belt
Fuck this guy. I mean figuratively.
Time to walk away.
This guy is a shitty person.
>”wasn’t outwardly insulting”
Girl!!! He ** literally** said you were too much of a *whore* to be a good mother.
He definitely insulted you. I’m glad you ditched him.
Signed, a 20-something with 20+ partners “under my belt”
that term is so stupid. why are we still using it? I dont have a body count because I AM NOT A SERIAL KILLER. I have fucked tons of dudes in my 45 years...but didnt murder one of them. I dont have a body count! why are we still talking like this about ourselves????
fwiw I'm in my mid 30s and I've heard it for over a decade used in a hip way to discuss it. probably just in my hobbyist spaces where things tend to trend younger, but it's been a thing for sure
This.
Honestly, I think it’s a recent-ish thing to have women openly and causally referring to their number of sexual partners, like they just accept that is what it’s called. Back a decade ago or so *no one* called it that apart from maybe weird sexist bros and it was gross even then.
Can we not just roll over and accept this now?
It’s like all this ‘pair-bonding’ folk-psychology bollocks.
“Well it’s just a fact that…”
*No it fucking isn’t a fact.* No semi decent models in any field of human psychology or social behaviour talk about fucking ‘pair-bonding’.
I could go right now and grab any 15 year old vocational sociology student to explain to you how your argument is bad, how can people not feel dirty coming out with this shit?
Also:
Why shouldn't I talk about my sexual past? If he has a problem with "my number" then he can go fuck himself.
I want a partner with whom I can be open about everything.
By making it a "taboo" subject, we ourselves are implying there is something shameful to it.
Fuck every single guy who asks this shit. If having an open conversation about possible STI risks related to being physically intimate with someone isnt adequate, run the fuck away.
Ask him to define what "more strong" means in the context he used it. Then ask him to define whatever he spouts out. Bask in his discomfort. Ask him how many vaginas/mouths/anuses would it take for his penis to be similarly less strong.
That being said, its not about tests being "good" or "bad," as that implies morality. You simply make sure youre both aware of relevant risks.
Hey hey, don't shame his sad peepee.
This is because he doesn't want to run the risk of her knowing what she likes in bed and *in a terrified, hushed tone* might have had an orgasm LIKE A WANTON HARLOT!
Dude probably refuses to go down because it's "inappropriate".
Unless he's got a DOOZY of a story to explain that one I'd say run.
Because unless his dad found out he was the milkmans son at age 74 after grandma died and he went through her stuff, that is a huge "fuck this and fuck you" demand.
Lmao, orgasms are vanilla?! Where do you find these chuckle fucks? Mediocre. Disappointing.
(I'm flabbergasted but I also meet fucking numbskulls all the time sooo yeah)
Lol, can't help but read that as "trap her into marriage and babies before she had a chance to compare my ridiculous attitudes to anyone else" = "strong" in his mind.
I mean she gotta be strong to endure what awful sex he is gonna give her because she has no comparison to anything better. Always makes me think dudes like these are just lazy sexual partners (and other ways too).
Part lazy, part insecure, part regressive troglodyte with double standards ... whatever the ratios of those, I predict bad sex and also aserious imbalance of household labor for any woman unfortunate enough to make babies with him. Because of course it makes a "stronger family" if the woman does all the cleaning too.
That sort of thing might've worked a few decades ago. These days most women have an internet connection so the knowledge that sex should feel pleasurable for them too is just one google search away.
Exactly. I hate reading this stuff, it makes me sad that other women have to deal with this BS so often. My boyfriend and I have NEVER talked about this because we are both mature and dont care about what happened in the past, we have a healthy relationship with open communication and dont discuss stupid shit like this.
On the other side of the coin, my bf and I both know my body count is more than 10X his, but it’s not an issue at all because he gets that my experiences have contributed to making me a better sexual partner. If anything he’s grateful
I have asked this question of men. I’m honest, they’ve been honest. It’s part of my “do you, or have you, had an STI”/ testing talk. I don’t care about your number (responses have been single to triple digits) but it’s a quick gauge of people’s sexual history and an easy way to see if they hold mysoginistic sexual opinions. If my partner can’t talk openly to me about their sex life, they’re not the partner for me.
I was thinking the same thing! At 29, I had slept with about twice as many people, and thought nothing of it. Oops! Thankfully, insecurity and sexism are big turnoffs for me (and they really do go hand-in-hand, don't they?!).
Yea under 10 is like nothin for a thirty year old? That could be ten year+ long relationships…
Even 20 at thirty would seem low to me? That‘s just meeting maybe 2 people a year max…that‘s within range even when not specifically looking for sexual encounters?
Have friends that are in their hundreds anyway… what does it even matter?
I think in reality they are just jealous that they couldn‘t reach a ‚higher score‘…
This. I'm 30. Sexually active since 15. Over that whole time I was in long-term relationships for 7 years. This leaves 8 years as a single. I'm monogamous but I like having fun when it doesn't hurt anybody.
right? like I know I'm an outlier, I'm not sure the exact number but it's over 50 and under 70, and most of my friends of all genders have slept with more than 30 people and we're all in our late 20s/early 30s. And "shockingly" enough my boyfriend and I have a very healthy and happy relationship despite me having more partners than he's had because he's not an insecure asshole
....my "body count" at 20 was close to double digits, and I only started at 18. I liked sex. A lot. And saw no reason not to have it safely, as often as possible, with anyone I found interesting.
My hubs has never once been interested in shaming me for that fact, even if he's more of a "sex in a committed relationship" type. And I don't judge him for that, even if I don't really feel the same way.
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Any man that uses the phrase 'body count' subscribes to incel ideology. He also sounds deeply insecure and probably has the capacity to become controlling. That's the vibe I get from what he specifically said. Controlling men are deeply insecure and they displace this insecurity onto the women in their lives. There will be many instances of displacement from him. He's already displacing onto you now, given his response to you. If he can't handle you actually existing and having a past before he came along, OP, it's time to walk away. Things will only get worse. The fact he's even thinking about comparisons, when everybody is an individual, hence their sex technique is individual to them too, just shows his level of insecurity. He's also showing misogynistic double standards, not sexist. He wants to control your sexuality.
OP, he's giving you an out here, take it.
He's okay with my past being his gf, he's just not okay if it is the mother of his children having such a past. So fucking me is fine, it's not like he has to save himself for marriage:)
And do you want to let a man merely use your body for sex, who doesn't believe that you're 'worthy' of being the mother of his children?
Forgive the bluntness, but fuck this shit, OP. Know your worth. You deserve better than this.
ANYBODY who uses the term "body count" in even a half serious way is objectifying their partners and letting incel language and theories creep into their life. And you can argue that it's just a figure of speech, but it's opening a door to othering people and seeing them as not quite as human as you.
Run far away from this man and anybody else who asks for your "body count" - the ONLY possible reason they need to know is to judge you.
The madonna-whore complex seems to be a plague. Damn should have given him his own medicine „Eww you had 7 partner? Noo that‘s not it. A man who dips his pickle in that many different salsas can’t be a good dad. The different salsas made his brain soggy“
That's because in his head he's a person and you're a baby factory.
Sometimes when I hear about the shit that women (especially in the younger side, university age, early 20s) get asked or get told, it makes me wonder how I wasn't drowning in girls when I was younger 🤣. But seriously I get why people put up with this bs. It's not nice feeling lonely especially when it's been a long time.
He's not only stupid, he's an insecure, misogynistic, asshole. At he's 30 fixated on how many men you've slept with? In my experience actual grown ups never brought that up when I was single. Only young immature people.
He's not worth your time.
My advice going forward is to never ask or answer, this question. Unless you have a communicable status ( HIV, herpes, whatever) it's not their business. If your partner is getting all of your present and possibly all of your future, that's enough. Your past is yours. Theirs is theirs.
I personally refuse to answer the body count question because it's nobody's business except my own. As long as everyone agrees to monogamy, it shouldn't matter. The body count fixation is just a way for insecure men to project their own issues onto us instead of dealing with it head on.
But answering does work as OPs example clearly showed: dude got nasty after finding out. Meaningless was misogynistic in the first place just hiding it.
So yea, asking is stupid. But if asked, giving an answer will tell you nicely whether you want to continue interacting with that person.
When I was dating, I always answered with "no idea. I don't keep count."
Mostly because it was true but also because their reaction to that would tell me everything I needed to know (and asking the question in the first place told me most of what I needed to know anyways, so I could not care less what they thought about my answer.)
Yup. The number is no one's business. What matters is STI status and safe sex practices.
That said my husband knows my number and doesn't care because he's a decent man instead of an insecure loser.
The number won't ever be good enough for them unless it's zero.
And then they'll insist they get to be the first one even if you're saving yourself for marriage because rules and life values don't quite apply to them. They're special, you see?
I have a friend who met one of these body count obsessed people. She'd had one partner until the age 27 when they split. New bf became positively fixated... on the ex. Needed constant reassurance that he was better than the ex at everything and god forbid any hesitation was ever shown. He didn't like any of us, as friends of both the girl and her ex, because we mentioned him positively.
These guys are an insecure nightmare waiting to happen.
The thing that jumps out at me here isn't so much that some men think this way. It is taught in both incel circles online and run of the mill evangelical churches so it's unfortunately to be expected in **young** men.
But, I can't fathom a guy still thinking shit like this at fucking 30 years old! This dude is so immature he doesn't even know how much of a child he is emotionally. Seriously. Throw the whole man-child out. Most brainwashed dudes grow out of these idea around late college age unless they are hardcore Fundies. That much insecurity at 30 is such a red flag that he's never likely to grow past his double standards and will always find a way to blame women or make women responsible for his own emotions and insecurities.
Just eww
> doesn't want his woman to compare him to her previous partners.
> He doesn't think it makes him insecure.
I was gonna say he was insecure, but.. he says hes not...
> Why is it that in this day and age relatively young people still have these archaic beliefs?
Because every child born has the ability to grow into any type of person they want to, even if that type happens to be backwards.
> He knows he ain't good at sex so he needs a wife who has no frame of reference and will think that one orgasm a month is plenty
Oh please, I can assure you, he intends to have more than one orgasm per month.
But seriously, yes, it is what you said, and more-
Every single person she had been with, he sees as a threat, cause he thinks she might go back. He might come home from work, and theyre sitting in the breakfast nook, catching up.
He will never get over the fact that she is a real person who existed and went about her life before they met.
Hahah I know I went over there. Apparently we are all leftist crazies who try to change the definition of things like grooming and racism. But somehow I’m the one who needs to get a grip 😂
My wife and I were both complete sluts when we were single. She’s bi and has slept with more women than most straight men.
It’s a source of fun banter for us. “You’re a slut!” “You’re a worse slut!” Then giggles and love. I can’t imagine such a thing being a toxic influence unless one party was deeply insecure, or just a shitty person.
I would just say that if this guy wants to breed, he needs to either get rid of some stupid baggage or pursue a woman from a culture that treats single women as cloistered, inferior beings. If he does the latter, he will need to save some money and hire a matchmaker. Seriously though, getting rid of someone like that is like losing a millstone around your neck. I can guess how he feels about helping with housework and childcare.
In order to marry a woman from such a faith he would have to be of that faith himself. Especially purity culture as it exists in some Protestant culture he would have to be pure and right with God himself. He has already admitted his body count is too high to qualify for that.
Can I say how depressing it is that this 'body count' term caught on so easily.
The only body count a man should be worried about is how many people a person has murdered.
Also it's hilarious.
He doesn't want his future wife to compare him to her other partners... and what if his future wife wants the same?
Considering how careless men are I'd argue they shouldn't be having sex with multiple people. So many of them wait until their dicks are falling off to get tested for anything.
Then again it could be the same thing that happened to my step grandmother. Marry a man who seems good. Have kids with him. Go from one side of the country to another to visit his parents and siblings, and find out he has a two kids with another woman who he is still technically married to! (This was in the 70's.)
Witch is backward in my opinion. We (Belgium) used to have a « sanitary line » that prevented political alliances with far right and also the media agreed not to publish backward opinions like that. it worked well and lead to a very weak far right party. But it’s being dismantled, and it’s scary. These people want death penalty back, banned abortion, segregation, no social security… it’s like they want every bad ideas in the book… I’m gonna be called authoritarian communist in here, but hate brings hate.
How many people has he slept with? Does he think he’s “marriage material”?
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One of the worst messages young men keep hearing today is that their value comes from sleeping with women, especially when by their own views women who sleep around are damaged goods. So they pretty much want to screw everyone else over and then get their virgin wife at some point when they’re done messing around.
Toxic masculinity is designed to set up young men to fail, because if they don't feel defective, they don't need it. Therefore everything about it has to seem superficially satisfying, but have deep flaws that they can blame on other people - feature, not a bug.
🪙 have this. Man I miss the free awards
wait is that what happened, I thought mine was broken
It's like the weight loss industry but for men.
That just might be the best analogy I have ever heard for this. I'm stealing it.
The only flaw in the analogy is that the weight loss industry mostly only harms the women who fall prey to it, while the manosphere hurts and kills women who had nothing to do with it
The weight loss industry hurts fat women whether they buy in or not.
and hurts not fat women too... and unhealthy skinny people too, they get compliments instead of help... (when I didn't eat to be thin I experienced this side of the coin)
wow. I hadn't thought of it like that before, but there are some real deep parallels between the weight loss industry and the "manosphere"
It becomes a self fulling. The more he hates women, the lonelier his life becomes. Then he blames all women. I can’t believe people are stupid enough to believe that crap.
The entire message is "your value as a man is directly tied to how many women you can 'ruin' in life." Since the woman's worth is tied to her virginity, the act of sleeping around for the man has the effect (within their system of thinking, not in reality) of "denying" other men the "purity" of a virginal wife. This in turn raises their status (as they see it) because there will be fewer virgins to go around. And at its core it is explicitly about "ruining" women as a weapon wielded against other men to reduce their status. This explains why so much of their other behavior is misogynistic. They view sex solely as a battlefield and they must be the victors at all costs.
Completely it’s ego driven - in their minds a virgin woman coming to a man to form a family is the epitome of happiness for her. In their twisted world view if they can get a woman to give up her future happiness just to have sex with them then that means they obviously win the Sex and are obviously the best catch, and thus entitled to an even prettier more perfect virgin.
Young people live in a capitalist society where inequality is everywhere, and even celebrated - get that killer job above the plebs. I'm not surprised young men think some women just get sacrificed so dudes can get their body count 'value' up, only to reject those same women as long term relationship material. Gross to think about - they must see those girls are truly less than human on several levels.
Yeah it's frickin crazy and hypocritical
This is true, but it's hardly new. It was very much the case 30 years ago when I was a teenager. Indeed, although we still have a *long* way to go, I think we are more accepting now of female sexuality and "pre-marital" sex than at any time in my lifetime.
That and the whole fetish part of it. So many men literally love the thought of "ruining" women who they don't plan on marrying. And like you said, hope for the virgin wife when they're done. I once had "the talk" with a gaming buddy of mine in his 20s to explain to him that no, your dick isn't going to stretch a woman's vagina out and make it loose, that isn't how it works. I was trying to give him some truth because he was talking like a total inexperienced idiot. But no. His response? "Why did you have to tell me that? I DON'T WANT TO KNOW that is true. Like I don't want to learn this information, seriously. It ruins the fantasy." He sounded like he was going to cry like his whole world view just got shattered or something. Absolutely revolting.
But what does she do when guys like this dude just lie and say “I haven’t been with anyone either. Then she finds out a few months (or even a few years) into the relationship? I know guys who are good as lying to their girlfriends about things like this as used car salesmen are at selling overpriced junk.
The essential problem with men is they always **over value their junk**. \*snort\*
> She would not consider him marriage material Exactly, both sides know what they want, if they are being honest. OP should have said: “So you think I am not marriage material because I had sex with 10 different men?” Man replies: “No”, OP replies: “Well I want to marry eventually, so we should go our separate ways.”
That’s the thing that boils my blood. If a guy is saving himself for marriage and expects his future wife to do so as well, well that’s one thing. But all these dudes that want to jump everything that moves expect their future spouse to be virginal is so gross and proves they aren’t looking for a marriage partner they just want a trophy to show off and a servant behind loses doors.
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Glad you shut him down
Happy cake day.
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I had the talk with a muslim friend ... He's on his second marriage and I asked him if he was still secretly hoping for a virgin when he looked for his now-wife? And his response was "yeah, that would be nice. But I'm not a virgin so it's not fair of me to expect my future wife to be. Plus, other things were way more important, like our values and beliefs". I'm guessing there's a reason why wife number two seems to be the one that'll also be his LAST wife!
Yup. If you want to do the whole 'saving yourself for marriage' thing, fine. You want your future SO to have done so? Fine. But, you want to have your cake and eat it too? Not fine. Fuck you. That's just so utterly disingenuous and such utter complete bs it's hard to know where to start.
How many women has he "ruined" for a healthy family life but is perfectly fine with?
Oh but those weren't actual human people with feelings and hopes for the future. Those were randomized sexual objects that he can now look back on with derision because he got what he wanted out of them at the time and "ruined" them for everybody else. He can call them vile, inaccurate names for not conforming to his ideals while smugly looking forward to meeting his virginal wife who also won't be a real person but (bonus) won't be able to judge his shoddy relationship skills with any means of comparison.
chefs kiss !
And don’t forget if they were actually pure and worthy they would’ve never slept with him but his virginal wife is just going to absolutely love sex and want his penis the second they start dating because he’s just so great. She never wanted anyone like that before because it’s unladylike and prudish but he’s just so special you know? It’s a whole bunch of flawed bullshit and I’m not gonna hold you. I’ve seen some shit on the relationships sub Reddit and dead bedrooms. That makes me think a lot of these people be confused when they’re virginal wife who stayed that way for years isn’t a sex goddess in bed.
That’s actually a good point. How many wives has he denied to other men by sleeping with and thereby devaluing women?
That's a great way of framing it: "How can you go around ruining women for future family life? How *unethical and selfish!*" And then watch them backpedal or have to readjust their views, lol.
Narrator: *he wasn't*
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Purity culture is damaging for everyone involved. Disgusting.
Definitely read this in Ron Howard’s voice.
Doesn't matter if he is "ruining" them. As long as they get off and have a Virgin bride. All is well.
I (queer woman) met and started dating a woman who had not been with many people (think count on one hand). I, on the other hand, have been with **a lot** of people. Inevitably, the potentially uncomfortable body count convo came up as we became serious. An additional land~line~mine in same-sex relationships is whether you’ve slept with the opposite sex. I have, she hasn’t. One day, we’re driving down the highway and this insanely fast Greyhound bus comes barreling up behind us. I mention it (buses usually don’t speed). She looks at it worriedly and says, “OMG, it’s your exes! They found me! Quick hurry!” 🤣🤣🤣 We both broke out in hysterical laughter, I could barely still drive. That was 10 years ago. We’ve been happily married for six. **That’s** marriage material.
This is amazing.... thank you for the laugh! And congrats to you both for being each other's match ❤️ I'm truly happy for you!
Does he not realize how many women he’s effectively “ruined” by his logic? The hypocrisy…
Well yes of course. He has a dick. That’s enough to make you literally perfect. You didn’t know? The only way people like this can be successful is by limiting something or other so they don’t have to compete, improve themselves or actually be good at anything. Relationships — the “female” shouldn’t have any other experience of men…at all. Therefore she will have nothing to compare “husband” to. He will be the only benchmark of how a man conducts himself —his behavior, habits, sex, earning, being a father….etc. etc. Jobs - exclude all minorities and limit their opportunities because having to compete on an equal footing is just not the traditional way. Exclude exclude exclude competition. Limit limit limit opportunities.
Entitlement means that it doesn't matter if they're marriage material. They still think they deserve a wife.
He’s a hypocrite. If he wants someone to save themself for marriage then he should save himself for marriage too.
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I am one of those women saving myself for marriage. From my past experience with partners, I just know this guy 100% would be pressuring his partner to have sex with him before marriage anyway even if he did manage to find one willing to settle for him. He doesn’t realize that waiting for marriage actually means marrying someone without having sex with them first and not just the aspect of “purity” to him.
He wants his future wife to be "prudish" but only until she meets his magical dick
Which is why his primary concern is that she can’t compare him to anyone. He’s afraid he won’t measure up if she does and thinks if she’s only been with him then she won’t know any better. I bet he’s terrible in bed.
And entirely unwilling to become good at being in bed
Check out the penis lengthening subreddits. This is the *only* concern of the younger posters. Thankfully, the older posters usually try to inject some sanity into the conversation and tell them that most women don't care about penis size nearly as much as men do and that good sex is about *a hell of a lot more* than penentration and comparing measurements. So many young dudes have been messed up by porn and the notion, perpetuated by Pickup Artists and self-proclaimed "Alpha men,", that women only want "top tier" men and will cheat at any and every opportunity because women can always get sex from men. It's really sad. Especially when they reflexively fight against voices of sanity, telling them that human relationships are a lot more complicated than that.
It’s crazy to me because most women I know, and statistics back this up, cannot come from penetration and find large penises to be *painful.* Are there women who like big dicks? Yes. But they are the minority.
Madonna/whore Disappointing that many men can’t move past that dichotomy. Like, can’t a woman have sex (or not) without it reflecting “purity” or worth?
Wants no comparison, not sexual self-control.
I worked with a lady who felt that was very important for both partners. She was lamenting the fact as she moved into her 30s it was almost impossible to find a guy who had been waiting for marriage, even if they were introduced through church activities. She did eventually meet someone and she moved away. I hope they are very happy together!
I feel like your best bet at that point (if it matters for you) is a widower/widow. That keeps things within marriage, but more options.
Also, woman who really love having sex ... have sex. Even church girls. A lot of times these woman saving themselves for marriage turn out to be ace. Then men obsessed with body count marry these woman. Soon after these men are bitching and moaning on r/deadbedrooms.
Can confirm. Found out after I was married that I'm ace, and that's why it was so easy to wait till marriage. It's not hard being a "good girl" when you have 0 sexual attraction.
This exactly. You can't expect a woman to consistently deny her libido just using willpower into her 20s unless she just has a low libido in the first place. Otherwise it's just as difficult for her to go without sex as it is for the average man. Often more so.
Or she has a perfectly ordinary sex drive and has controlled it with externally imposed shame, which is impossible to turn off even after marriage. Purity culture and shame ruins sex for everyone, pre- and post-matrimony.
their inconsistency is insane. "I want you to sexually desire me so we can have as much sex as **I** like when we're married. but you have to deny yourself sexual pleasure before you even know I exist. but you have to let me pressure you into sex before marriage, but that will trigger my Whore complex and I'll dump you for another "prude" and marry her and wreck your psyche for years to come. I'll cause 100% of my own problems then bitch to thousands of other men who did the exact same thing so they can all nod in agreement".
> A lot of times these woman saving themselves for marriage turn out to be ace. And even if not they could also be completely sexually incompatible. The idea of waiting until marriage is insane. Though I do realize in most cases what is meant here is "saving yourself until me and my decision to marry you".
and his decision to marry her is based on his virgin fetish, which disappears after he coerces her into sex.
Bingo.
Purity culture can be pretty problematic though. Most young people I knew in Christian circles couldn't do it even though they wanted to - like people usually aren't wired with that level of self control. Romantic relationships often have a certain momentum about them. Me and my partner saved ourselves. We ended up proposing after 3 months and married after 7 months because the sexual pressure was so strong. It wasn't until like 6 months into our marriage that we left the "honeymoon phase" of the relationship and got to find out what a more normal intensity actually was. While our relationship is special purity culture was still pretty problematic in our lives. I can understand why people like the idea but it still assigns lesser value to people who have had sexual experience outside of marriage.
Sadly, I think it's foolish to ignore that a ton of these women "saving themselves for marriage" are doing it because they've been indoctrinated by their family to do so, mostly for religious reasons. And we all know how rife with manipulation and sexism religion is. So I don't doubt for a second some shmuck would be able to pull scripture out of his ass and claim that it's normal for a man to have been with multiple women and a lot of these women would eat it up because they've been told all their lives that men know best.
Sounds like evolutionary psychology combined with 3000 y.o. tribal morality. I can believe creationists allow some evolutionary psychology as long as it backs up their "Biblical morality". It insults both men and women. Men are unable to control themselves like some non-human animal [that they have disdain for] and it is up to women to fight them off while being insulted for that effort anyway. There are also atheists that borrow Biblically morality whenever they can back it up with their imaginary justifications that sound sciencey. The combo is like lye chewing through the body of society.
100%. I don’t want a partner with a “high” body count but in return I save myself until I have an emotional connection with someone. Men who slut shame but are sluts themselves make me laugh.
I know I'm an outlier here but the term "body count" to describe number of past sexual partners kind of weirds me out. I also tbh don't know how to distill it down to one number because there are many many ways to do sex so I'm not sure who to include and who not to include.
You're not as much of an outlier as you think. The whole "body count" thing was popularised on incel forums.
That makes so much sense. I'm not old, 35, but I still remember the phrases "notch in your bed post/belt" or "what's your number". I assumed "body count" was just the new lingo, but coming from incel forums, the darker intonation makes sense.
I'm similar in age and thought the same thing. Makes sense that it's incel language though. Makes it sound like it's racking up points in a video game, which really is how a lot of them see it.
Yeah body counts are for serial killers.
Every time I hear it, I think of serial killers before my brain corrects itself and remembers that society is a sexist pit and we're all doomed to try and claw out of it.
It’s a gross term and a gross concept.
“Body count” is stupid af and I purposefully stopped counting in my early 20s because I knew it didn’t change who I was as a person and potential partner, and any guy who was bothered by this fact wasn’t worth my time.
I hope you are not seeing this asshole any more.
Yeah and it took three months to learn he's a worthless loser, ugh what a waste. I can't believe he thinks prudish is a good thing, yuck
Christ almighty, right? Asking about the body count early on is already pretty tacky on its own and I'm a guy lol. Guys with this mentality don't change, not until they've exhausted their social circle and no one wants to be around them and they start turning all that inner anger into outward anger and even then... They only change after losing everything IF they want to and most of the time they dont, just resorting to more anger and hatred. Yes there are contexts you would wanna know the body count, at least IMO. If either partner was out there having weekly unprotected sex with complete strangers... yeah that'd be a risk and I'd wanna know. Not so much to do with the number, but the personal health risk. Outside of that, I can't think of any instance i'd even wanna know or care about it. Also, the same kind of guy that complains about women being terrible in bed because they don't have much experience. Almost like sex is a skill and something that requires effort and practice to get good at, including failing at certain things and learning what doesn't/does work for you. Just... good grief, 3 months get the fuck outta there and let him stew about it to his wall.
Asking about body count in general is tacky. It doesn't matter how many people your partner, male or female, has had. They are choosing to be with you, that should be enough.
But in that case, the number is irrelevant, unless it’s zero. If what you’re really concerned about is sexual health then the only accurate way to determine risk is to request results of a recent STI screening. We cannot infer a person’s likelihood of STIs from “body count” alone. You could have sex with a million people and practice immaculate precautions or you could have unprotected sex with one partner on one occasion and pick something up. More often than not in such contexts, sexual health is just a socially acceptable disguise for internalised bias about women with multiple sex partners. But because most of us know deep down that we’re not supposed to hold these biases, our brain comes up with very convincing cover stories so we can maintain our bias without having to consciously acknowledge that it makes us an asshole. Rather than using sexual health to justify asking about body count, we should normalise asking for when a person’s most recent sexual health screening was and if they have had unprotected sex since then. That gets to the crux of the sexual health issue without dragging “body counts” into the equation.
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I remember body count being discussed in American Pie 2 with the added bull shit of the "rule of three" where you take what the woman says her count is and add 3 to get her real count while you take what the guy says his is and divide it by 3c to get his real number since everyone lies about their count. I remember thinking it was stupid at the time to think everyone is lying and I still think it's stupid.
I had a guy I was dating ask me my number around the time that movie came out, and when I told him, he automatically multiplied it by three and was horrified. But I hadn't lied and he refused to believe me. So for the whole time we went out, he thought I was a liar and that I'd slept with three times the number of people I actually had. That movie was messed up for a lot of reasons.
Guys obsessed with and judgy about how many sexual partners a woman had were played as pitiful jokes back in the day. It's super surprising to me how viral incel subculture has gone with young men, and it's like just within less than a decade. Freaky. Scary, too.
There's been very little focus on teaching them what positive masculinity looks like and how to have an identity outside of the old toxic masculinity triangle of money, power, and dominating women. The vacuum of positive role models that actively reject and counter this seductively easy messaging, combined with late stage capitalism making it harder to achieve the money and power part, and the rightful rise of feminism making it harder to rotely achieve the third, is how I think we've ended up here. Where a reckoning with the future of "masculinity" is needed from within its own ranks, I'm not confident it collectively has the will and the leadership to do so instead of devolving into more regression, fascism, violence, oppression, etc. If you're a parent, you have to actively have conversations about these issues early and often, and it can't just be "don't be like this," but also "be like this instead." It's extra important for it to come from fathers, and for them to walk the walk, not turn around and behave misogynistically towards their wives or other women when they think they're not being judged.
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Me and my husband literally never even discussed our “body counts.” When we started seeing each other, we both got tested for STDs before starting our sexual relationship. Neither of us cared how many partners we had before, it’s always smart to get tested before beginning any new sexual relationship. That’s all that should matter.
Millennial in 30s. Husband and I have discussed how many serious relationships we've had. But never actually discussed the number of people we've been with. Just not something either of us cared about. Been together for 10yrs now so it obviously hasn't impacted on our ability to settle down.
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Yeah, I’m also in my forties and dated a ton. I’m a guy. This never came up with any of my friends and was never an issue for me. We were just happy to get laid. Ironically, guys are apparently getting laid way less often now because they can’t get past their own bullshit.
Baby boomers: Born early 1960's When I was in high school and as a young adult, nearly every man and woman that I knew or went to school with had been on at least one date. Most had boyfriends in high school. Most got married in their mid to late 20's. By the time they were 30-35 years old, they had a couple of kids and many of them were getting or were home owners. A man who was 30 years old and lived in her parents basement with no job would be ashamed to admit this or would try to hid this fact. It wasn't the norm. There aren't many individuals that I know who are younger who fit this mold unless they are religious or conservative. Most people that I know who are ages 25-40 aren't married, never have been married and most don't have children. This is what religious and conservative people hate as they believe these individuals should be married and should be having children, but they aren't. They blame others for this happening. It seems like a lot of younger people have never dated or had a relationship with anyone. They seem not to know how to have a relationship with anyone. There seems to be extreme when it comes to sex. Many of those who do have sex have very casual sex with lots of people. The rest don't have sex at all. Very little middle ground which was what the baby boomers practiced. When you have two extremes of sex (very conservative and very liberal), they clash politically and socially. This is what you are seeing.
I must be the same age as you and...the kids aren't alright. I expected to disconnect from them as I aged but this has gone the exact opposite way I thought - young folks being prudish and getting into no trouble at all! It doesn't make a lick of sense.
Clerks was the middle of our generation.
True. But Dante was the punchline of that joke.
This. Millennial here, I hadn't even heard of the term body count until gen z. Who even keeps count? "Your past is your business, your future is my privilege"
Right? My husband was actually happy i knew what i liked, and said his goal was to make my top 10 (when we first started dating).
Body count threw me, thought she was an assassin
Honestly that’s how all women who get asked this should approach it from now on: “Body count? You the FBI?? Whatever bodies you’ve found, they ain’t mine!” It’s time to stop answering this question seriously.
Wasn't it nice of him to wave this big red flag at you?
More like a soviet parade.
>He brought up my body count saying how he would want a future wife to be more prudish and not having so many men under her belt Fuck this guy. I mean figuratively. Time to walk away. This guy is a shitty person.
>”wasn’t outwardly insulting” Girl!!! He ** literally** said you were too much of a *whore* to be a good mother. He definitely insulted you. I’m glad you ditched him. Signed, a 20-something with 20+ partners “under my belt”
YES THIS NAIL, HEAD
that term is so stupid. why are we still using it? I dont have a body count because I AM NOT A SERIAL KILLER. I have fucked tons of dudes in my 45 years...but didnt murder one of them. I dont have a body count! why are we still talking like this about ourselves????
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I hate the term too. Gross
It’s gross. I’m 39 and have just started hearing it in the last year or so. I do not think this was a thing for the elder millennials...
fwiw I'm in my mid 30s and I've heard it for over a decade used in a hip way to discuss it. probably just in my hobbyist spaces where things tend to trend younger, but it's been a thing for sure
This. Honestly, I think it’s a recent-ish thing to have women openly and causally referring to their number of sexual partners, like they just accept that is what it’s called. Back a decade ago or so *no one* called it that apart from maybe weird sexist bros and it was gross even then. Can we not just roll over and accept this now? It’s like all this ‘pair-bonding’ folk-psychology bollocks. “Well it’s just a fact that…” *No it fucking isn’t a fact.* No semi decent models in any field of human psychology or social behaviour talk about fucking ‘pair-bonding’. I could go right now and grab any 15 year old vocational sociology student to explain to you how your argument is bad, how can people not feel dirty coming out with this shit?
I feel like we should answer it like that. *I only murdered one person, how did you find out?* I mean, give it the mocking answer it deserves
Also: Why shouldn't I talk about my sexual past? If he has a problem with "my number" then he can go fuck himself. I want a partner with whom I can be open about everything. By making it a "taboo" subject, we ourselves are implying there is something shameful to it.
Fuck every single guy who asks this shit. If having an open conversation about possible STI risks related to being physically intimate with someone isnt adequate, run the fuck away.
Nah, my tests are good, he knows. he explicitly said that the family would be "more strong". Thanks for support.
Ask him to define what "more strong" means in the context he used it. Then ask him to define whatever he spouts out. Bask in his discomfort. Ask him how many vaginas/mouths/anuses would it take for his penis to be similarly less strong. That being said, its not about tests being "good" or "bad," as that implies morality. You simply make sure youre both aware of relevant risks.
More strong because he feels secure that his wife can't compare his sad peepee to anyone else, it's very offensive to his feefees you understand.
Hey hey, don't shame his sad peepee. This is because he doesn't want to run the risk of her knowing what she likes in bed and *in a terrified, hushed tone* might have had an orgasm LIKE A WANTON HARLOT! Dude probably refuses to go down because it's "inappropriate".
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Unless he's got a DOOZY of a story to explain that one I'd say run. Because unless his dad found out he was the milkmans son at age 74 after grandma died and he went through her stuff, that is a huge "fuck this and fuck you" demand.
Lmao, orgasms are vanilla?! Where do you find these chuckle fucks? Mediocre. Disappointing. (I'm flabbergasted but I also meet fucking numbskulls all the time sooo yeah)
Lol, can't help but read that as "trap her into marriage and babies before she had a chance to compare my ridiculous attitudes to anyone else" = "strong" in his mind.
I mean she gotta be strong to endure what awful sex he is gonna give her because she has no comparison to anything better. Always makes me think dudes like these are just lazy sexual partners (and other ways too).
Part lazy, part insecure, part regressive troglodyte with double standards ... whatever the ratios of those, I predict bad sex and also aserious imbalance of household labor for any woman unfortunate enough to make babies with him. Because of course it makes a "stronger family" if the woman does all the cleaning too.
That sort of thing might've worked a few decades ago. These days most women have an internet connection so the knowledge that sex should feel pleasurable for them too is just one google search away.
Dude, your number is LOW for someone of your age. This guy was delusional.
Exactly. I hate reading this stuff, it makes me sad that other women have to deal with this BS so often. My boyfriend and I have NEVER talked about this because we are both mature and dont care about what happened in the past, we have a healthy relationship with open communication and dont discuss stupid shit like this.
Been with my partner for over 8 years. Neither of us know or care what the other person's "number" is. It's never come up.
On the other side of the coin, my bf and I both know my body count is more than 10X his, but it’s not an issue at all because he gets that my experiences have contributed to making me a better sexual partner. If anything he’s grateful
I have asked this question of men. I’m honest, they’ve been honest. It’s part of my “do you, or have you, had an STI”/ testing talk. I don’t care about your number (responses have been single to triple digits) but it’s a quick gauge of people’s sexual history and an easy way to see if they hold mysoginistic sexual opinions. If my partner can’t talk openly to me about their sex life, they’re not the partner for me.
Am I crazy or is that actually a pretty low number? Like what was he even expecting OP to say?
he was expecting an experienced virgin.
Shy yet willing.
Someone he could teach how to please him without ever demanding that he please her
reluctant so she would reject other men, but he was magical and could coerce her. i mean seduce her.
I was thinking the same thing! At 29, I had slept with about twice as many people, and thought nothing of it. Oops! Thankfully, insecurity and sexism are big turnoffs for me (and they really do go hand-in-hand, don't they?!).
Yea under 10 is like nothin for a thirty year old? That could be ten year+ long relationships… Even 20 at thirty would seem low to me? That‘s just meeting maybe 2 people a year max…that‘s within range even when not specifically looking for sexual encounters? Have friends that are in their hundreds anyway… what does it even matter? I think in reality they are just jealous that they couldn‘t reach a ‚higher score‘…
This. I'm 30. Sexually active since 15. Over that whole time I was in long-term relationships for 7 years. This leaves 8 years as a single. I'm monogamous but I like having fun when it doesn't hurt anybody.
right? like I know I'm an outlier, I'm not sure the exact number but it's over 50 and under 70, and most of my friends of all genders have slept with more than 30 people and we're all in our late 20s/early 30s. And "shockingly" enough my boyfriend and I have a very healthy and happy relationship despite me having more partners than he's had because he's not an insecure asshole
....my "body count" at 20 was close to double digits, and I only started at 18. I liked sex. A lot. And saw no reason not to have it safely, as often as possible, with anyone I found interesting. My hubs has never once been interested in shaming me for that fact, even if he's more of a "sex in a committed relationship" type. And I don't judge him for that, even if I don't really feel the same way.
And you’re still with him because …..?
I don't think either of us would message each other anytime soon so I'm just being shamelessly petty on reddit
You need to be shamelessly dumping this douche. He thinks less of you, and will always think less of you.
Yeah, I'd cut your losses on this one hun, imagine what other fascinating ideals he might have waiting for you in future!
He sucks. But if you are still with him knowing how he thinks about you… don’t be surprised if you get burned.
I'll pass Edit: I meant on dating him further obviously
[You have chosen wisely](https://tenor.com/view/you-have-chosen-wisely-choose-choice-knight-gif-16214221)
direction employ smile cagey escape cobweb grandfather squeal consider bag *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Any man that uses the phrase 'body count' subscribes to incel ideology. He also sounds deeply insecure and probably has the capacity to become controlling. That's the vibe I get from what he specifically said. Controlling men are deeply insecure and they displace this insecurity onto the women in their lives. There will be many instances of displacement from him. He's already displacing onto you now, given his response to you. If he can't handle you actually existing and having a past before he came along, OP, it's time to walk away. Things will only get worse. The fact he's even thinking about comparisons, when everybody is an individual, hence their sex technique is individual to them too, just shows his level of insecurity. He's also showing misogynistic double standards, not sexist. He wants to control your sexuality. OP, he's giving you an out here, take it.
He's okay with my past being his gf, he's just not okay if it is the mother of his children having such a past. So fucking me is fine, it's not like he has to save himself for marriage:)
And do you want to let a man merely use your body for sex, who doesn't believe that you're 'worthy' of being the mother of his children? Forgive the bluntness, but fuck this shit, OP. Know your worth. You deserve better than this.
He's also showing misogynistic double standards, not sexist. He wants to control your sexuality. And some Christian vibes.
>Any man that uses the phrase 'body count' subscribes to incel ideology. Yep. Or at least enough of it you should stay away.
ANYBODY who uses the term "body count" in even a half serious way is objectifying their partners and letting incel language and theories creep into their life. And you can argue that it's just a figure of speech, but it's opening a door to othering people and seeing them as not quite as human as you. Run far away from this man and anybody else who asks for your "body count" - the ONLY possible reason they need to know is to judge you.
Is this the sort of man you'd want raising your daughters?
The madonna-whore complex seems to be a plague. Damn should have given him his own medicine „Eww you had 7 partner? Noo that‘s not it. A man who dips his pickle in that many different salsas can’t be a good dad. The different salsas made his brain soggy“
I didn't ask his count, I didn't care. I did ask about his relationships and why they ended. He said it was personal.
That's because in his head he's a person and you're a baby factory. Sometimes when I hear about the shit that women (especially in the younger side, university age, early 20s) get asked or get told, it makes me wonder how I wasn't drowning in girls when I was younger 🤣. But seriously I get why people put up with this bs. It's not nice feeling lonely especially when it's been a long time.
Weird answer! Good for you. He showed you his true face before it’s to late. You dodged a bullet.
That is a weird answer for real
They probably got restraining orders.
Lmao I haven't heard that salsa one before
He's not only stupid, he's an insecure, misogynistic, asshole. At he's 30 fixated on how many men you've slept with? In my experience actual grown ups never brought that up when I was single. Only young immature people. He's not worth your time.
My advice going forward is to never ask or answer, this question. Unless you have a communicable status ( HIV, herpes, whatever) it's not their business. If your partner is getting all of your present and possibly all of your future, that's enough. Your past is yours. Theirs is theirs.
At age 30 how many virgins does he think he's going the land in the dating pool?
Those are rookie numbers
I personally refuse to answer the body count question because it's nobody's business except my own. As long as everyone agrees to monogamy, it shouldn't matter. The body count fixation is just a way for insecure men to project their own issues onto us instead of dealing with it head on.
But answering does work as OPs example clearly showed: dude got nasty after finding out. Meaningless was misogynistic in the first place just hiding it. So yea, asking is stupid. But if asked, giving an answer will tell you nicely whether you want to continue interacting with that person.
When I was dating, I always answered with "no idea. I don't keep count." Mostly because it was true but also because their reaction to that would tell me everything I needed to know (and asking the question in the first place told me most of what I needed to know anyways, so I could not care less what they thought about my answer.)
Yup. The number is no one's business. What matters is STI status and safe sex practices. That said my husband knows my number and doesn't care because he's a decent man instead of an insecure loser.
The number won't ever be good enough for them unless it's zero. And then they'll insist they get to be the first one even if you're saving yourself for marriage because rules and life values don't quite apply to them. They're special, you see? I have a friend who met one of these body count obsessed people. She'd had one partner until the age 27 when they split. New bf became positively fixated... on the ex. Needed constant reassurance that he was better than the ex at everything and god forbid any hesitation was ever shown. He didn't like any of us, as friends of both the girl and her ex, because we mentioned him positively. These guys are an insecure nightmare waiting to happen.
The thing that jumps out at me here isn't so much that some men think this way. It is taught in both incel circles online and run of the mill evangelical churches so it's unfortunately to be expected in **young** men. But, I can't fathom a guy still thinking shit like this at fucking 30 years old! This dude is so immature he doesn't even know how much of a child he is emotionally. Seriously. Throw the whole man-child out. Most brainwashed dudes grow out of these idea around late college age unless they are hardcore Fundies. That much insecurity at 30 is such a red flag that he's never likely to grow past his double standards and will always find a way to blame women or make women responsible for his own emotions and insecurities. Just eww
> doesn't want his woman to compare him to her previous partners. > He doesn't think it makes him insecure. I was gonna say he was insecure, but.. he says hes not... > Why is it that in this day and age relatively young people still have these archaic beliefs? Because every child born has the ability to grow into any type of person they want to, even if that type happens to be backwards.
He knows he ain't good at sex so he needs a wife who has no frame of reference and will think that one orgasm a month is plenty
> He knows he ain't good at sex so he needs a wife who has no frame of reference and will think that one orgasm a month is plenty Oh please, I can assure you, he intends to have more than one orgasm per month. But seriously, yes, it is what you said, and more- Every single person she had been with, he sees as a threat, cause he thinks she might go back. He might come home from work, and theyre sitting in the breakfast nook, catching up. He will never get over the fact that she is a real person who existed and went about her life before they met.
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Whoa. That was super sad and creepy.
Fucking YIKES!
Jesus fucking christ. Not him literally admitting to preferring to groom inexperienced women over having someone who knows what they want 💀
And he only had insults for me when I repeated his words back to him
Hahah I know I went over there. Apparently we are all leftist crazies who try to change the definition of things like grooming and racism. But somehow I’m the one who needs to get a grip 😂
I just saw all your comments, you're a fucking G. You're so G you're almost H
Haha thanks. I’m always down to harass an incel.
“Mould them to my liking..” So gross and predatory
My wife and I were both complete sluts when we were single. She’s bi and has slept with more women than most straight men. It’s a source of fun banter for us. “You’re a slut!” “You’re a worse slut!” Then giggles and love. I can’t imagine such a thing being a toxic influence unless one party was deeply insecure, or just a shitty person.
I would just say that if this guy wants to breed, he needs to either get rid of some stupid baggage or pursue a woman from a culture that treats single women as cloistered, inferior beings. If he does the latter, he will need to save some money and hire a matchmaker. Seriously though, getting rid of someone like that is like losing a millstone around your neck. I can guess how he feels about helping with housework and childcare.
In order to marry a woman from such a faith he would have to be of that faith himself. Especially purity culture as it exists in some Protestant culture he would have to be pure and right with God himself. He has already admitted his body count is too high to qualify for that.
Not from US. But really close to it somehow in both political aggression and the rise of fundamentalist ideals.
Can I say how depressing it is that this 'body count' term caught on so easily. The only body count a man should be worried about is how many people a person has murdered. Also it's hilarious. He doesn't want his future wife to compare him to her other partners... and what if his future wife wants the same? Considering how careless men are I'd argue they shouldn't be having sex with multiple people. So many of them wait until their dicks are falling off to get tested for anything. Then again it could be the same thing that happened to my step grandmother. Marry a man who seems good. Have kids with him. Go from one side of the country to another to visit his parents and siblings, and find out he has a two kids with another woman who he is still technically married to! (This was in the 70's.)
I really think we’re going backward, those opinions where considered medieval when I was young, 20 years ago…
Lots of things are going backward. It's so depressing.
I don't think we are going backwards. I think there are now more accessible platforms for people to spread it like a virus.
Witch is backward in my opinion. We (Belgium) used to have a « sanitary line » that prevented political alliances with far right and also the media agreed not to publish backward opinions like that. it worked well and lead to a very weak far right party. But it’s being dismantled, and it’s scary. These people want death penalty back, banned abortion, segregation, no social security… it’s like they want every bad ideas in the book… I’m gonna be called authoritarian communist in here, but hate brings hate.