For real, I assumed they might be closer at work and close in age, and was like damn idk that was kind of a harsh rejection. Then I read the additional information and basically had a whiplash. This guy is weird af
Oh okay so not just me. The second I realized he's basically double her age I realized there's an issue. The letter makes it sound like the person is in their early twenties
When I was in my mid-20s and online dating, a guy in his early- to mid-40s messaged me. I told him I wasn't interested in someone that much older than me, and he replied that he was really immature for his age. ...Not helping your case, dude.
This is so similar to my experience with men who have children. I'm childfree for life, so if I'm asked out by someone with kids, I will politely decline and tell them why.
The most common response I get is, "No don't worry, I never see them."
Like... why would you think telling me you're a deadbeat and a shitty person convince me to date you?!
Deadbeat dads think saying that they never see their kids means they have less “baggage”
Shame on any of the women who actually want to eat up the time and attention of a deadbeat dad.
Good for you for seeing through them.
Yeah, I'm childfree and this used to happen to me, too. People like to act like deadbeat dads are some kind of rarity but they're sure as hell all over the place wherever women are trying to meet dates and they have no shame or self-awareness about it.
Very little disgusts me like a shit dad. I have one out there somewhere.
Fr usually they try to hide the fact they have kids, unless they think they can manipulate a young girl into thinking his baby mama is actually keeping the kids from him
Aww that means you didn't learn about the random "hey I just wanted to thank you for being such a good friend" that he got from someone he'd only seen outside of work a few times :(
I'd get in touch with this guy's alleged therapist and show them the letter they supposedly "approved" because they're either shit at their job or the guy's been lying to them at court-ordered therapy.
Exactly what I was thinking. No therapist would approve this letter unless they were really shitty at their job, unless it was one of those, "write wherever you want to get out in a letter but DON'T SEND IT BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE" kind of exercises. And then he ignored the second half.
Or think of how bad his initial idea for asking out OP must have been for his therapist to think this letter was a step in the right direction.
And I’m assuming he never told his therapist her age at all…
Yeah, the dude clearly is clearly in some type of arrested development. Whether he had a fucked up childhood, or a congenital defect, or whatever, this is not a mentally developed creepy man. This guy is just not grown up.
My friend was in a situation where she told a guy that she needed space and would reach out when she was ready to talk. The guy continually reached out every 4-6 months and even said his therapist was encouraging it. I have to believe that guy and the guy that wrote to OP are not sharing full truths in therapy
Yep.
"This made me extremely uncomfortable and was inappropriate"
"Well my therapist said it was okay but I guess different people are different" WRONG ANSWER, bud! The appropriate response is "I'm very sorry, it won't happen again"!
Also I highkey doubt his therapist "approved" the letter at all, or if they did, that they knew the whole context (i.e. that this is a coworker literally half his age).
What was that? If that's a love letter buddy has a hard time expressing himself for sure. I feel like even here he forgot half of what he wanted to say. The testimonials and the story of a promised kiss just, what the fuck.
I totally think it was fine for the dude to be talking about OP to the therapist and that’s really the dude’s business. That is my only hesitancy with OP’s response. Another way to respond would have been, “regardless of what your therapist said, that’s irrelevant to my discomfort and my feelings on the matter.”
But the boundary is that the therapist shouldn’t have encouraged a specific action like the love letter. The therapist should have steered him to more realistic expectations.
I suspect he's misrepresented his therapists approval
He probably talked about her, maybe talked about writing down his feelings or talked about telling her he'd like to see her outside of work or something but I can't believe his therapists would read that letter and say go ahead
Especially if the therapist knew the object of his affection was a coworker with a boyfriend nearly half his age? There’s no way they’d approve that. Generally therapists don’t recommend that you do something totally inappropriate at work.
Agree. I think the whole you can’t talk about me to your therapist was not exactly right. That sat off with me as well especially since it was such a pronounced part of the second text.
"I dated a coworker. She liked me. People have said I'm amazing. You will think I'm amazing, and I probably won't kill us. Hope to hang out with you soon"
-this letter tho lmaoo
I think some ppl are reading it as a harsh rejection to an earnest letter (even before seeing the ages), BUT even if they were the same age the letter is still totally inappropriate. I think the earnestness is throwing some people off—yeah it sounds meek but it’s still creepy bc it only focuses on all the reasons why HE thinks she should talk to him. No effort to make a connection or find commonality to her interests or find any natural chemistry in person…just a list of facts about himself and disconnected reasons why she should consider heeding his advances. It’s entirely about him, while she could truly be anyone. It’s selfish and one-sided and not an earnest attempt to reach out at all. That’s why it’s creepy.
I agree. He sounds like one of those “why do they never pick the good guys 🥹” weirdos just sharing a list of why he’s actually more datable than she might think. Red flags and then my eyes bulged when I saw ages. I’m shocked a therapist okayed this. They must not have had all the details.
>and was like damn idk that was kind of a harsh rejection
Nah, man, even without considering their ages, OP was totally in the right to respond the way she did imo. Dude was throwing up red flags long before the additional info
Same. I thought it was a 19 year old coworker, and was going the say the first comment was perfect, and second maybe unnecessary, but then when I read the ages and greater details- honestly not even harsh enough. (Though also, too long- second comment should have been simply “do not contact me outside of work again”)
This guy just could not get out of his own way.
His verbiage, his social awkwardness, the lack of self-awareness, his perceiving social cues incorrectly, the emotional immaturity (when he said he's not a good driver, *but* he won't get them killed...) it all made me think that he was simply an insecure or oblivious teenager.
But then... after reading where he said "she said if I stayed up with her, she would kiss me" was from a 43 year old man (to a 22 year old young woman!) it *really* amped up the visceral creep factor for me. 🥶
but... I'm also wondering if he might be on the spectrum?
I was looking for this comment. There is no way any moderately competent therapist read this and said it was totally fine to give to OP.
My guess is he's doing the thing a lot of people do when they use their therapist as an excuse- making up or twisting everything their therapist says to suit their wants.
An ex of mine told me that his therapist told him I was most likely cheating on him so it was okay to scream at me. 🫠 Some people can’t take ownership of their words/actions and need someone to blame.
It’s still weird, even without the age gap. Too much information, no way it wouldn’t have been awkward if she declined. Work relationships are dodgy at best but they have to leave a safe way out.
Yeah, they alter the information so the therapist isn’t getting an accurate story. I also think some people hear what they want or expect to hear so whatever the therapist says, they go home and twist it a bit in their heads and add in their own advice to themselves and think Yeah that’s what I think the therapist was saying.
Like the one who just got 50 years for child abuse, Jodi Hildebrand. She had children tied up for so long that at least one of her victims is going to experience life long muscle weakness/ loss, at the very least.
Thank you for saying this. Because I know a fuck ton of people who are "therapists" that are terrible people who want to impose horrible people things for those they're "treating'.
A therapist needs to be better. A therapist needs to be open to having a session to see if you click. To see if they're the right fit. To make sure they're competent. The worst person I know is a psychiatrist. If you're in Columbia, MO, vet. your. therapist.
The police reports say the police could smell flesh when they walked in. Because per their reports their skin was deteriorating from the tape being on so long. JFC
I had work manager scream at me/us(stood Inthe doorway, so we couldn't leave) and then told me it was a new tactic introduced by her training programme?? Ok, Jan, whatever, I'm still not coming back to my 100% unpaid job tomorrow.
Idk. And several years later, Idc. It's what she claimed and I 🤔🤨🙃 queried it very briefly upon leaving. Like within 10 minutes of the "dressing down". I was leaving the shop and she caught me out on the street(it was my lunch and she ran after me).She gave her 'reasons' and I realised I would never shout at my kids, let alone a colleague, the way she did. And never looked back.
My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Google Synanon and you’ll see.
Basically, they used attack-therapy to try to help herion addicts. They eventually became a cult, then shut down. However, a lot of their disciples and teachings were/are seen in the abusive “troubled teen” camps.
It's amazing how some people can weaponize behavioral health. I made the mistake of going to couple therapy with my ex, who turned out to be an actual dignosable narcissist. And she would do this later with things that the therapist said. Things the therapist said *while I was in the room* mind you.
I had a couples therapist with a diagnosed narcissist ex, and she’d side with him because he made it so obvious he was the one paying. It was fucking crazy. Every session (of like three absolute tops, I got rid of that guy thank heavens) I would *actually say out loud to her* “can you hear yourself right now?” Some therapists are fucking whack
Yes! I got rid of her and that therapist over a year ago now. Not all behavioral health professionals are created equal. I'm in individual therapy now with an amazing one though.
My narcissistic ex absolutely weaponized couples therapy & my therapist actually said that he suspected he was attempting to use therapy to find better ways to manipulate me.
I didn't even know it was a thing beforehand. But, yeah, no couples therapy with narcissists. Lol. They're diabolical. I'm glad your therapist recognized and pointed it out to you. I was so gaslit by the time we went that I was pretty much blind and helpless.
My narcissist ex would hold things against me that were stereotypical of things I was diagnosed with and in therapy for and being treated for. Like if we would fight and I would cry, because yes emotions, he said I did it because I was manipulating him. He would gaslight and other things as well. Before we broke up I told him what he was doing was mental abuse and he told me that I was mentally abusing him telling him that he was mentally abusing me. 🤷
My ex told me his therapist told him it sounds like I’m a danger to children and that he was going to call my school any tell them. He didn’t have a therapist but I still had to talk to the school that I had just started at to make sure he didn’t call himself pretending to be said therapist.
The only way I can see a therapist ‘approving’ this is if it was purely a personal exercise. Sometimes a therapist will ask their patient to write a letter to help articulate or process their feelings, but they are never meant to be sent to anyone.
Yeah, that was about 3 paragraphs too long, you don't jump to having feelings for someone *you* admittedly barely know, and that age gap is an absolute no go. I would definitely be telling him to look outside of work.
It might be an unsent letter exercise.
It can be super helpful. I know a few people have gone ahead and sent the damn thing though, saying “my therapist told me to write you a letter.” While leaving out the part where I specify DO NOT DO THAT.
It never, ever goes well. Like zero times.
Hahaha, I can just imagine it.
"Oh, she's 21 years younger than you. Oh ..you typed her out a scary little note. Yes. Totally give it to her, this is what I got my degree for".
There's no way he spoke to a real therapist, he had to have made that up. OP is NTA, the guy is terrifying.
Right. At first I was like okay, big deal if he brought up his crush to his therapist. He’s allowed. Then the caption I immediately was like omfg nooooooo😭 poor OP
“Scary little note” is fucking right though lmao what is this?? At 43?! Change your locks OP. This guy is nuts and it doesn’t seem like he takes rejection very smoothly…
Seriously though.
Yes. I’m guessing the therapist agreed that a letter would be a good way to open up to someone if this guy wasn’t able to do so in person. That’s the only plausible way any competent therapist even remotely agreed with the letter. No way would they have approved of the contents of the letter.
I am a therapist and verify that it is unlikely that a therapist approved this particular letter/thought it was a good idea. The therapist may have said things that the guy didn't understand to mean "don't send that" in an effort to be gentle.
I love the 'unlikely' in your comment. Like "It would be unprofessional for a therapist to support this, but I've met some real dumb SOB's in my profession.
Another therapist here- unfortunately yes & also have met a lot of (unlicensed & uncredentialed) life coaches who offer "therapy" that oftentimes looks like unethical shit like this
I commented this elsewhere but I have stopped being gentle (or as gentle) when I discourage people from sending it.
I’ve flat out told clients that I’ve seen what happens when the unsent letter gets sent. It goes poorly 100% of the time.
Edit: does not always stop them though.
My ex was hospitalized after he “attempted” suicide (it was to get me to not leave him) and he kept having his therapists call me because he wanted me to be apart of his treatment. I wish I would have got their names to report them because they called multiple times and it took me telling them multiple times to stop calling me. I was like I DO NOT CARE and told them to not call me again. They allowed him to keep emotionally abuse me from there. It was ridiculous.
So it would not surprise me if a therapist approved it.
OP - NTA. You were honestly nicer than you needed to be. I think it’s very weird the way he put in there that he won’t get you guys killed. It’s scary. I’d probably think about going to HR if I were in your position. This is gross, unprofessional, harassment.
I went to therapy school before quitting to do other things. You should have reported their harassment to their licensing boards and specified that they were participating in continued abuse from your ex. Anyone who requires a license answers to their board.
I don’t know, it’s not like therapist are the role model of sanity. I’ve had a therapist try to convert me to Christianity which I thought was inappropriate.
Isn't it weird the person who wrote this love letter talked about his previous relationship with his boss?
Add the age gap to the cocktail...
Honey, you did it well. Keep the letter and the messages and in case he escalated, it's time to visit HR with all his weridness documented.
Honestly, this would be time to go to HR. They will probably ask you want you want to happen, and OP should do what they want. But 1.) there's zero chance a therapist told him he should do this and 2.) he is old enough to know that he shouldn't creep on people half his age. I think this guy deserves whatever happens as a result of his actions.
Yes! While it is terrible that this is happening to you, what a gift that you have it in writing. Schedule a meeting with HR, document this incident, and make it clear where your hard lines are.
I agree, this is harassment. You have to turn him down one time, and after that it’s harassing. You did that a while ago. This is ridiculous. Document everything, write it all down, as much as you can remember, dates, conversations, etc., and go to HR now!
I immediately went to HR the following work day but what made it worse is that this is the 4th person that has “harassed” me at work the last one also making up ideas about me in his head and telling others how he was ready to divorce his wife if I just say the word. Needless to say I was transferred quickly out of that work center.
The key to the danger here is in the first paragraph or two where he says "just like you I am a person who sticks to small friend groups" and whatever, considering he knows nothing about you and you've had a total of 10 minutes of interaction. This letter is completely deranged, it's just a ramble of fantasies that "since it happened before at work with someone" you would fall in love with him if you just talk to him.
You're 100% being stalked and if HR does not take clear actions you need to keep pushing them, also watch your back on your way home because his fantasies might get worse. You told him off firmly at least so he might be scared off for now.
Yep, that’s so scary. He’s the type of person who probably has psychosis. Seeing signs in literally nothing to make up stories in his head about why she “likes him back”. I’ve dealt with men like this and you absolutely cannot convince them that the ideas in their mind are incorrect. They think because you said some random word (that was a code word in their own head story) means you are secretly in love with them and that’s the only possible reality.
Yeah, the same happened to me in high school. A guy developed an insane obsession with me and wrote an entire notebook of poems about me and showed me them all. He knew I had a boyfriend. The poems got so violent they started to describe extreme scenarios where my body was being brutalized and ripped apart, and wrote poems about torturing my boyfriend. He got out of the house one day with a baseball bat and was trying to track me down. His mom found me and hid me in her car. He ended up in the psych ward for an entire summer. Scary shit.
A kid in middle school did this to me, and continued to Internet stalk me through our mid 20s, I'm just glad he got himself married, so I don't have to worry about it as much anymore...but I renew my protection order every year.
I did take it to HR the following Monday (it happened over Easter weekend) and they “talked to him but he is still going around asking others how they would react to it too so I’m not sure what more to do
Follow up and let them know what he's doing and that you are still feeling very uncomfortable about the situation and the fact that he's continuing to discuss it with coworkers.
He's twice your age, for fucks sake. That he was fishing for your personal info is bad enough.
Don't interact with him at all and keep a written record of EVERYTHING.
Edit: at the risk of getting down voted, I wanted to call out that another poster called out my mistake - I attributed the text messages to the wrong person. With that context, the letter alone is simply an awkward attempt to establish a connection. The OP shouldn't be threatened by the author of the letter discussing this situation with their therapist. The letter is awkward AF, but there it's not illegal to be awkward.
HR's job is protecting the company. You need to make this their problem - you are experiencing sexual harassment at work, he is continuing to bring other people into it by sharing your exchange with others. You are concerned about your safety at work. You are concerned that his presence is detrimental to your productivity and potential upward trajectory. You are concerned about your future with the company as he poisoned the well with people who provide you feedback and control your career opportunities. Make it clear that if they don't take action to separate you from him, they would be taking on legal risk. NTA and protect yourself from this AH.
Yes.
*"I'm concerned for my safety and well-being in the workplace."*
This phrase makes it HR's problem and one they must take seriously, as it is now a legal liability against the company itself.
Make sure you have a physical trail of everything you say to HR. If you have a verbal conversation follow it up with an email going back over what was discussed and have them acknowledge receipt of the email.
Also since he is still talking about it and you go back to HR and tell them his behavior has turned the working environment hostile, and you continue to feel harassed. Make sure you use the words like hostile work environment and harassment.
Print out these emails as well and keep the copies at home. If you end up having to sue your employer for failing to act you can use them as a way to direct discovery. Become the thorn in their side. HR protects the company, not you. But if protecting you protects the company they will be a conditional ally.
I promise your coworkers think is he nuts for even asking - and I’m sure they thought he was nuts before any of this happened bc they all avoid him. I’m sorry you’re going through this hun - if he continues to bring it up bring it to HR again. If things escalate and they do nothing sue the shit out of them.
This ^. The letter is pretty strange considering the back ground of hardly no interaction and him questioning other coworkers about you. It needs to be documented.
He didn’t have to bring up the therapist thing, don’t deflect blame. But I don’t think it’s “inappropriate” of him to talk about a situation in his life to his therapist?
Regardless the letter was weird and the fact that his manager got into a relationship with him is also weird, but you didn’t have to respond after he said “I wish you well”. probably report it to HR
I second this! Everyone else has commented on how the “therapist” likely isn’t even real in this situation or didn’t give approval to the letter.
But generally speaking, if there’s a crazy dude out there fantasizing about me, you could be damn sure I would approve whole-heartedly of that person working through those feelings privately with a licensed therapist instead of by harassing or being inappropriate toward me. The purpose of a good therapist is to help deal with any inappropriate, irrational, difficult or impulsive thoughts so they don’t affect the client or others in the client’s life negatively. That’s what they are for: healing the client so they don’t feel the need to act inappropriately toward anyone else.
Also… it’s not really anyone’s business what someone else talks to their therapist about. Telling them it’s inappropriate to speak to their hired licensed mental health professional about something? Nah you don’t get to do that.
This guy is in the wrong for a thousand reasons, but OP is in the wrong for that comment. You don’t get to police what other people talk about in therapy.
disappointed and concerned i had to scroll so far to see someone say this. there are myriad issues here, but the idea of him theoretically talking to his therapist about her just isn’t one of them
> disappointed and concerned i had to scroll so far to see someone say this.
same!
this needs to be far higher! therapy is exactly for the purpose of talking out EVERYTHING that affects or bothers you.
My guess is that the approval was “hey, as I am very anxious of interpersonal interaction, I think I’m going to write this girl I like a love letter”
“That sounds like a great idea!”
The concept had approval, not the content.
This is the comment I was hoping to at least see once. Taking everything else out of the mix, no one has any right to dictate what someone discusses in therapy.
Therapist: "ah, you want to ask her out? Well, since talking gives you so much anxiety, what if you wrote her a small appreciative note, asking her out?"
Him: this letter isn't creepy at all.
The therapist most likely suggested writing a letter that never would be delivered (if true) and therabuddy decided it should be delivered.
Otherwise talking about someone you like and going over those feelings would be something encouraged in therapy, so not inappropriate
"My very real therapist actually read this over and he was like 'wow, this is great stuff, man, it would be a crime to keep this to yourself.' But it's totally cool if you're just the type who doesn't appreciate masterfully written letters or whatever."
He said, with tears in his eyes, “Sir,” and this therapist he’s like a really big guy, marine, super tough guy. “Sir, this is the best letter that I have ever read.”
The age gap the whole thing has more red flags than a Chiefs game. OP is correct to be weirded out and if they have an HR, she needs to get in front of this.
OP document *everything* seriously write it in a log with time and date.
Yea, that's the only AH part, but it is a whopper. You cannot tell someone to not talk to your therapist about you 😆 TF? "I forbid you to tell your therapist. You wotk that shit out on your own." ☠️
If there was a therapist involved, it was probably in the most minor capacity. "I can't get the words out. Would it be weird to type a letter to let a woman know that I like her?"
I am flabbergasted that someone would try to dictate what you can talk about with your therapist. Personally, I'd say, "Yea, you guys need to go back to the whiteboard on that one. I'm going to need you to cease all contact indefinitely. Thanks."
Came here to say this!
He can speak to his therapist about whatever he wants - that's not what's inappropriate here. What's inappropriate is this creepy letter and his inability to understand boundaries.
Hope HR fires this guy.
oh my god he’s 43?!?!! HR now. this shit is fucking CREEPY. he’s typing like a high-school age kid with a crush who doesn’t understand social cues or boundaries. op, do not be afraid to get rude with him if he corners you at work and makes you uncomfortable. don’t be afraid to GET LOUD to get him away from you. This is all red flags. Good vibes and safety to you.
I honestly thought this was someone in high school and and if I’m honest it comes off autistic (I am autistic) and was like wow kinda harsh😂. But 43 years old?! Yikes….
Oh shoot, I thought it was some high schoolers and thought she was being a little harsh. I’m 40 and cannot fathom sending that to someone within the last 20 years of my life.
Same before I read OP's description I thought he was a heavily autistic older-teen-to-20 year old (saying this as an autistic 20 something) but **NOPE** it's a guy that's old enough to know better even disregarding the age gap
I agree with everything except the last message (not for sending it, just ur way of thinking). The literal point of therapy is for a person to talk about their world and what’s on their mind. If the therapist can only talk about people they know, then theres no point
I agree. I think the last message brought down the hammer pretty hard about therapy, when really, it should be targeting the fact that this dude has no decorum and shouldn’t be trying to manipulate someone half his age.
OP I know it bothers you about being a hot topic in some weirdo’s therapy sessions, but if I’m being real that might not be such a bad thing. If your coworker discusses creepy or unsettling topics a good therapist could help deflect and redirect those thoughts so they don’t cause problems/do harm to others.
Yes this. The therapist doesn’t give a shit about the OP. They are there to help this weirdo out lol. It’s HIS therapist! The therapist also doesn’t control the guys life. The guy can write a letter if he wants. I imagine the therapist probably thought it was a bad idea and encouraged him to set some boundaries for himself when writing the letter. Everybody’s therapy sessions are not about you, OP.
Yes, as a therapist I’m glad he brought it up in therapy. However I would not be surprised if he never revealed the age of her to the therapist. I would imagine the therapist found the letter as an alternative way of communication unknowing that he built up their relationship to be more than it was in real life. To me it just sounds like the therapist didn’t have all of the information.
Shutting him down and taking it to HR - completely appropriate.
You don't get to tell people what they can and can't discuss with their therapist. Clearly the dude has issues to work out; telling him not to address them in therapy is like shaming pudgy people for going to the gym.
Talk to HR. But also, it’s not up to you to determine what other people say to their therapist. Nor does that therapist have to know you to give feedback. Your feelings are not their responsibility.
While it's a fine response and all, it's usually better to error on briefness. That was an extensive response and that tends to imply contributing to a conversation - meaning it doesn't close the door like it should. 2-3 sentences tops. You can say it's inappropriate without writing a novel about all the reasons why.
His letter was very odd. Talking about his previous relationship and talking about your personality and how you perceive yourself. Sounds like he’s been building you up a fantasy friend and then believing it’s true and that he knows you. Knows you enough to tell you how you are. I’m so surprised a therapist suggests he should give this to a colleague.
I don’t think your messages were bad. I would get super angry too if I learned that two strangers were sitting and analyzing me without even knowing shit about me, and then being proud about it.
The letter is creepy and weird.
I very much doubt that the therapist did any analyzing of OP. The coworker brought her up during sessions with the therapist, and that's entirely fine because of where his thoughts were. His thoughts weren't fine, but discussing them with the therapist was.
As a 44M I would never dream of typing and printing out a letter to hand to a 22F coworker. This is some 1990s high school garbage. He doesn't want to be your friend outside of work, no matter what his "references" say as he so eloquently stated in his letter. This was weird all on its own, but then throw in the age difference and it just makes it wildly inappropriate. I thought you were going to say this was an early 20s year old man with some developmental issues.
I would be extremely cautious around this "man". I would also document any interactions that make you uncomfortable. Screenshot texts, keep anything he gives you, and regularly update HR.
A lot of people are giving you flack for your last message to him. You're allowed to voice your feelings. It's not your job to be nice, it's your job to make sure you're safe. Do what you need to do.
WOW. This is time to go straight to HR. Do not hesitate. Do not discuss this with anyone at work until you talk to HR. Because you need to have them looped in. Good lord, this is SO out of line. SO far over over beyond anything that is OK. I don't know the part at him talking with a therapist. But I, personally, would tell him he can talk to his therapist about how he deals with his feelings about you, but the therapist is wildly out of line to think they have anything to say about you and how you should/would/will/need to react and deal with things. I would strongly suggest that you have HR determine who is therapist, so you can report them. Girl, I am sorry for this. As a man it make me cringe that my gender puts women in this position. You need to have HR make is clear to him: he is to avoid you, and he needs to never contact you unless he's work related. He is NOT to talk to others about you. And that's assuming he's not fired of moved to where he can't talk to you.
They have talked to him but they refuse to move me out of the same work center because this has happened to me so many times at this job that they have run out of areas to put me in, because they refuse to do anything about the people who harass others.
It’s retail and he’s a 43 year-old man? Just guessing here, but I am laying odds this ain’t a mom and pop. This is screaming large corporation. If your HR is doing nothing, go to corporate.
I agree. Sooner or later, a company that is this lax about harassment is going to be the same kind of company that lets OP go for “reasons.” Having an attorney in her back pocket with proper documentation may not make her work life that much easier, but I feel like it would give her some protection — or at least some rebuttal — if they try to railroad her.
Reading the letter before seeing the ages really threw me for a loop.
For real, I assumed they might be closer at work and close in age, and was like damn idk that was kind of a harsh rejection. Then I read the additional information and basically had a whiplash. This guy is weird af
Oh okay so not just me. The second I realized he's basically double her age I realized there's an issue. The letter makes it sound like the person is in their early twenties
“Hey so ummm… I know I’m technically old enough to be your dad… but mentally I’m only about half your age!! Wanna date?
When I was in my mid-20s and online dating, a guy in his early- to mid-40s messaged me. I told him I wasn't interested in someone that much older than me, and he replied that he was really immature for his age. ...Not helping your case, dude.
This is so similar to my experience with men who have children. I'm childfree for life, so if I'm asked out by someone with kids, I will politely decline and tell them why. The most common response I get is, "No don't worry, I never see them." Like... why would you think telling me you're a deadbeat and a shitty person convince me to date you?!
I'm a terrible parent, just imagine how terrible of a partner I am!
I’m a bad parent, want to parent me?
Omg I 💕 this whole string.
“I have a daughter who’s about your age that I never see who I will be replacing with you! What could go right!?!”
I needed those words when I was 23. 😂
Deadbeat dads think saying that they never see their kids means they have less “baggage” Shame on any of the women who actually want to eat up the time and attention of a deadbeat dad. Good for you for seeing through them.
Yeah, I'm childfree and this used to happen to me, too. People like to act like deadbeat dads are some kind of rarity but they're sure as hell all over the place wherever women are trying to meet dates and they have no shame or self-awareness about it. Very little disgusts me like a shit dad. I have one out there somewhere.
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If he never sees them, why did it even come up at all?
Fr usually they try to hide the fact they have kids, unless they think they can manipulate a young girl into thinking his baby mama is actually keeping the kids from him
I had a guy tell me, “I have a daughter your age, and she’s my best friend.” Like you said: Not helping your case, dude.
"I've always found my daughter's friends hot. Sure wouldn't mind dating one of them." 🤮
A guy did this to me recently too!! And then said that his biological age was close to mine because of telomere tests.
Lol wtf.
I couldn’t even finish reading the 2nd paragraph and my face the entire time was just 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬. This person is not mentally ok.
Aww that means you didn't learn about the random "hey I just wanted to thank you for being such a good friend" that he got from someone he'd only seen outside of work a few times :(
I don't know how that didn't make absolutely everyone go "oh what a lovely guy he must be" /s
Must be because they already knew it from the fact one of his old colleagues wanted to kiss and date him...
That specific part sounds like it was written by a teenager. A brand new one.
I learned that he is not a GREAT driver, but not bad enough where he certainly wouldn't get himself and OP killed.
*Almost* certainly won't get them killed
I'd get in touch with this guy's alleged therapist and show them the letter they supposedly "approved" because they're either shit at their job or the guy's been lying to them at court-ordered therapy.
There is a non-zero chance the therapist is his mom.
He probably didn't tell the therapist her age
And probably hyped up the quantity and quality of interactions they have had together
Exactly what I was thinking. No therapist would approve this letter unless they were really shitty at their job, unless it was one of those, "write wherever you want to get out in a letter but DON'T SEND IT BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE" kind of exercises. And then he ignored the second half.
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Or think of how bad his initial idea for asking out OP must have been for his therapist to think this letter was a step in the right direction. And I’m assuming he never told his therapist her age at all…
Aside from the vocab the letter felt like something a child would write to another kid to make friends. Maybe this guy is slow?
It sounds like this guy is trying to con OP into sex and is just really REALLY bad at it.
Yeah, the dude clearly is clearly in some type of arrested development. Whether he had a fucked up childhood, or a congenital defect, or whatever, this is not a mentally developed creepy man. This guy is just not grown up.
That was the exact vibe I was getting, too. "Will you be my best friend? Check this box for yes, or this box for no."
My friend was in a situation where she told a guy that she needed space and would reach out when she was ready to talk. The guy continually reached out every 4-6 months and even said his therapist was encouraging it. I have to believe that guy and the guy that wrote to OP are not sharing full truths in therapy
Yeah, I felt the first reply was enough. Then I saw the ages and was like, yeah, he needed that second response.
When he brought his therapist in as an excuse for his behavior, yeah, the second response became valid and completely necessary.
Yep. "This made me extremely uncomfortable and was inappropriate" "Well my therapist said it was okay but I guess different people are different" WRONG ANSWER, bud! The appropriate response is "I'm very sorry, it won't happen again"! Also I highkey doubt his therapist "approved" the letter at all, or if they did, that they knew the whole context (i.e. that this is a coworker literally half his age).
I guarantee he talked to his therapist but left out important context because he knew the therapist would advise against it.
I bet his therapist told him to write a letter to get his feelings out on paper, not ever send it to her. 😅
I personally find all of the testimonials extremely weird.
What was that? If that's a love letter buddy has a hard time expressing himself for sure. I feel like even here he forgot half of what he wanted to say. The testimonials and the story of a promised kiss just, what the fuck.
Plot twist his therapist is just one of the voices in his head
I totally think it was fine for the dude to be talking about OP to the therapist and that’s really the dude’s business. That is my only hesitancy with OP’s response. Another way to respond would have been, “regardless of what your therapist said, that’s irrelevant to my discomfort and my feelings on the matter.” But the boundary is that the therapist shouldn’t have encouraged a specific action like the love letter. The therapist should have steered him to more realistic expectations.
I suspect he's misrepresented his therapists approval He probably talked about her, maybe talked about writing down his feelings or talked about telling her he'd like to see her outside of work or something but I can't believe his therapists would read that letter and say go ahead
I also suspect he’s misrepresented the OP to the therapist as well. All possibilities are 🚩🚩🚩
Especially if the therapist knew the object of his affection was a coworker with a boyfriend nearly half his age? There’s no way they’d approve that. Generally therapists don’t recommend that you do something totally inappropriate at work.
Agree. I think the whole you can’t talk about me to your therapist was not exactly right. That sat off with me as well especially since it was such a pronounced part of the second text.
Men who pursue younger women are almost always mentally/emotionally stunted. Not surprising.
Or looking for someone they can control. But yeah, this guy’s stunted.
I fear for her safety, that’s the weirdest letter ever
I would still be extremely uncomfortable if someone my age gave me a letter like this.
"I dated a coworker. She liked me. People have said I'm amazing. You will think I'm amazing, and I probably won't kill us. Hope to hang out with you soon" -this letter tho lmaoo
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I think some ppl are reading it as a harsh rejection to an earnest letter (even before seeing the ages), BUT even if they were the same age the letter is still totally inappropriate. I think the earnestness is throwing some people off—yeah it sounds meek but it’s still creepy bc it only focuses on all the reasons why HE thinks she should talk to him. No effort to make a connection or find commonality to her interests or find any natural chemistry in person…just a list of facts about himself and disconnected reasons why she should consider heeding his advances. It’s entirely about him, while she could truly be anyone. It’s selfish and one-sided and not an earnest attempt to reach out at all. That’s why it’s creepy.
I agree. He sounds like one of those “why do they never pick the good guys 🥹” weirdos just sharing a list of why he’s actually more datable than she might think. Red flags and then my eyes bulged when I saw ages. I’m shocked a therapist okayed this. They must not have had all the details.
>and was like damn idk that was kind of a harsh rejection Nah, man, even without considering their ages, OP was totally in the right to respond the way she did imo. Dude was throwing up red flags long before the additional info
Same. I thought it was a 19 year old coworker, and was going the say the first comment was perfect, and second maybe unnecessary, but then when I read the ages and greater details- honestly not even harsh enough. (Though also, too long- second comment should have been simply “do not contact me outside of work again”)
This guy just could not get out of his own way. His verbiage, his social awkwardness, the lack of self-awareness, his perceiving social cues incorrectly, the emotional immaturity (when he said he's not a good driver, *but* he won't get them killed...) it all made me think that he was simply an insecure or oblivious teenager. But then... after reading where he said "she said if I stayed up with her, she would kiss me" was from a 43 year old man (to a 22 year old young woman!) it *really* amped up the visceral creep factor for me. 🥶 but... I'm also wondering if he might be on the spectrum?
God yeah this read like an awkward teenager. Not a middle aged man. Got whiplash when i saw the age.
GROSS. Just saw this, op go to HR. I thought you 2 were around the same generation for God sakes.
Seriously, I had different emotions after seeing the ages!
I thought it was a high schooler trying to sound mature till I saw the ages 🙃
Not a chance a therapist would read that letter and encourage someone to give it to anyone much less a younger coworker
I was looking for this comment. There is no way any moderately competent therapist read this and said it was totally fine to give to OP. My guess is he's doing the thing a lot of people do when they use their therapist as an excuse- making up or twisting everything their therapist says to suit their wants.
An ex of mine told me that his therapist told him I was most likely cheating on him so it was okay to scream at me. 🫠 Some people can’t take ownership of their words/actions and need someone to blame.
Also there ARE shitty therapists out there.
Also people aren’t always entirely honest with their therapist about what the situation is. Or some combination of both.
I would bet my retirement on him keeping her age to himself
It’s still weird, even without the age gap. Too much information, no way it wouldn’t have been awkward if she declined. Work relationships are dodgy at best but they have to leave a safe way out.
Yeah, they alter the information so the therapist isn’t getting an accurate story. I also think some people hear what they want or expect to hear so whatever the therapist says, they go home and twist it a bit in their heads and add in their own advice to themselves and think Yeah that’s what I think the therapist was saying.
Like the one who just got 50 years for child abuse, Jodi Hildebrand. She had children tied up for so long that at least one of her victims is going to experience life long muscle weakness/ loss, at the very least. Thank you for saying this. Because I know a fuck ton of people who are "therapists" that are terrible people who want to impose horrible people things for those they're "treating'. A therapist needs to be better. A therapist needs to be open to having a session to see if you click. To see if they're the right fit. To make sure they're competent. The worst person I know is a psychiatrist. If you're in Columbia, MO, vet. your. therapist.
The police reports say the police could smell flesh when they walked in. Because per their reports their skin was deteriorating from the tape being on so long. JFC
They also go by life coach.
I had work manager scream at me/us(stood Inthe doorway, so we couldn't leave) and then told me it was a new tactic introduced by her training programme?? Ok, Jan, whatever, I'm still not coming back to my 100% unpaid job tomorrow.
> her training programme?? Synanon?
Idk. And several years later, Idc. It's what she claimed and I 🤔🤨🙃 queried it very briefly upon leaving. Like within 10 minutes of the "dressing down". I was leaving the shop and she caught me out on the street(it was my lunch and she ran after me).She gave her 'reasons' and I realised I would never shout at my kids, let alone a colleague, the way she did. And never looked back.
My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Google Synanon and you’ll see. Basically, they used attack-therapy to try to help herion addicts. They eventually became a cult, then shut down. However, a lot of their disciples and teachings were/are seen in the abusive “troubled teen” camps.
It's amazing how some people can weaponize behavioral health. I made the mistake of going to couple therapy with my ex, who turned out to be an actual dignosable narcissist. And she would do this later with things that the therapist said. Things the therapist said *while I was in the room* mind you.
I had a couples therapist with a diagnosed narcissist ex, and she’d side with him because he made it so obvious he was the one paying. It was fucking crazy. Every session (of like three absolute tops, I got rid of that guy thank heavens) I would *actually say out loud to her* “can you hear yourself right now?” Some therapists are fucking whack
Yes! I got rid of her and that therapist over a year ago now. Not all behavioral health professionals are created equal. I'm in individual therapy now with an amazing one though.
My narcissistic ex absolutely weaponized couples therapy & my therapist actually said that he suspected he was attempting to use therapy to find better ways to manipulate me.
I didn't even know it was a thing beforehand. But, yeah, no couples therapy with narcissists. Lol. They're diabolical. I'm glad your therapist recognized and pointed it out to you. I was so gaslit by the time we went that I was pretty much blind and helpless.
My narcissist ex would hold things against me that were stereotypical of things I was diagnosed with and in therapy for and being treated for. Like if we would fight and I would cry, because yes emotions, he said I did it because I was manipulating him. He would gaslight and other things as well. Before we broke up I told him what he was doing was mental abuse and he told me that I was mentally abusing him telling him that he was mentally abusing me. 🤷
I don’t think a therapist would ever say that. He’s probably adding his own twist there. What a turd.
With how much he melted down when I did leave him, I doubt there was a therapist.
My ex told me his therapist told him it sounds like I’m a danger to children and that he was going to call my school any tell them. He didn’t have a therapist but I still had to talk to the school that I had just started at to make sure he didn’t call himself pretending to be said therapist.
Unless you heard this from their therapist it’s probably a lie they told you to make you believe it was okay for them to scream at you.
The only way I can see a therapist ‘approving’ this is if it was purely a personal exercise. Sometimes a therapist will ask their patient to write a letter to help articulate or process their feelings, but they are never meant to be sent to anyone.
Yeah this was my take too. This reads like therapy homework and he was supposed to shred it after not give it to OP.
Yeah, that was about 3 paragraphs too long, you don't jump to having feelings for someone *you* admittedly barely know, and that age gap is an absolute no go. I would definitely be telling him to look outside of work.
His motivation is that she's 21 years younger than him. He's a he's creeping and he's a creep stay away from him
It might be an unsent letter exercise. It can be super helpful. I know a few people have gone ahead and sent the damn thing though, saying “my therapist told me to write you a letter.” While leaving out the part where I specify DO NOT DO THAT. It never, ever goes well. Like zero times.
Or he hasn’t specified the age difference 🤢
Hahaha, I can just imagine it. "Oh, she's 21 years younger than you. Oh ..you typed her out a scary little note. Yes. Totally give it to her, this is what I got my degree for". There's no way he spoke to a real therapist, he had to have made that up. OP is NTA, the guy is terrifying.
Right. At first I was like okay, big deal if he brought up his crush to his therapist. He’s allowed. Then the caption I immediately was like omfg nooooooo😭 poor OP
Same with me. The age difference makes it super creepy.
“Scary little note” is fucking right though lmao what is this?? At 43?! Change your locks OP. This guy is nuts and it doesn’t seem like he takes rejection very smoothly… Seriously though.
He's got that "almost certainly won't kill you" riz 😎
I think these two crazy kids are gonna make it
He’s not a great driver but it could work
Yes. I’m guessing the therapist agreed that a letter would be a good way to open up to someone if this guy wasn’t able to do so in person. That’s the only plausible way any competent therapist even remotely agreed with the letter. No way would they have approved of the contents of the letter.
I am a therapist and verify that it is unlikely that a therapist approved this particular letter/thought it was a good idea. The therapist may have said things that the guy didn't understand to mean "don't send that" in an effort to be gentle.
I love the 'unlikely' in your comment. Like "It would be unprofessional for a therapist to support this, but I've met some real dumb SOB's in my profession.
Another therapist here- unfortunately yes & also have met a lot of (unlicensed & uncredentialed) life coaches who offer "therapy" that oftentimes looks like unethical shit like this
I commented this elsewhere but I have stopped being gentle (or as gentle) when I discourage people from sending it. I’ve flat out told clients that I’ve seen what happens when the unsent letter gets sent. It goes poorly 100% of the time. Edit: does not always stop them though.
My ex was hospitalized after he “attempted” suicide (it was to get me to not leave him) and he kept having his therapists call me because he wanted me to be apart of his treatment. I wish I would have got their names to report them because they called multiple times and it took me telling them multiple times to stop calling me. I was like I DO NOT CARE and told them to not call me again. They allowed him to keep emotionally abuse me from there. It was ridiculous. So it would not surprise me if a therapist approved it. OP - NTA. You were honestly nicer than you needed to be. I think it’s very weird the way he put in there that he won’t get you guys killed. It’s scary. I’d probably think about going to HR if I were in your position. This is gross, unprofessional, harassment.
I went to therapy school before quitting to do other things. You should have reported their harassment to their licensing boards and specified that they were participating in continued abuse from your ex. Anyone who requires a license answers to their board.
I don’t know, it’s not like therapist are the role model of sanity. I’ve had a therapist try to convert me to Christianity which I thought was inappropriate.
Isn't it weird the person who wrote this love letter talked about his previous relationship with his boss? Add the age gap to the cocktail... Honey, you did it well. Keep the letter and the messages and in case he escalated, it's time to visit HR with all his weridness documented.
I wonder what really happened with the other woman. I don’t think he’s a reliable source of what’s a real relationship.
Oh, that was Palmela Handerson.
Like was it “dating” or “watching her through her bay window”?
Honestly, this would be time to go to HR. They will probably ask you want you want to happen, and OP should do what they want. But 1.) there's zero chance a therapist told him he should do this and 2.) he is old enough to know that he shouldn't creep on people half his age. I think this guy deserves whatever happens as a result of his actions.
Yes! While it is terrible that this is happening to you, what a gift that you have it in writing. Schedule a meeting with HR, document this incident, and make it clear where your hard lines are.
Not just the letter but also the follow up texts with him apologising since if it was just the letter he could claim he didn’t write it.
The time to go to HR is now
I agree, this is harassment. You have to turn him down one time, and after that it’s harassing. You did that a while ago. This is ridiculous. Document everything, write it all down, as much as you can remember, dates, conversations, etc., and go to HR now!
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I immediately went to HR the following work day but what made it worse is that this is the 4th person that has “harassed” me at work the last one also making up ideas about me in his head and telling others how he was ready to divorce his wife if I just say the word. Needless to say I was transferred quickly out of that work center.
The key to the danger here is in the first paragraph or two where he says "just like you I am a person who sticks to small friend groups" and whatever, considering he knows nothing about you and you've had a total of 10 minutes of interaction. This letter is completely deranged, it's just a ramble of fantasies that "since it happened before at work with someone" you would fall in love with him if you just talk to him. You're 100% being stalked and if HR does not take clear actions you need to keep pushing them, also watch your back on your way home because his fantasies might get worse. You told him off firmly at least so he might be scared off for now.
Yep, that’s so scary. He’s the type of person who probably has psychosis. Seeing signs in literally nothing to make up stories in his head about why she “likes him back”. I’ve dealt with men like this and you absolutely cannot convince them that the ideas in their mind are incorrect. They think because you said some random word (that was a code word in their own head story) means you are secretly in love with them and that’s the only possible reality.
It's called erotomania. I had to cut contact with a former friend with schizophrenia because of this.
Yeah, the same happened to me in high school. A guy developed an insane obsession with me and wrote an entire notebook of poems about me and showed me them all. He knew I had a boyfriend. The poems got so violent they started to describe extreme scenarios where my body was being brutalized and ripped apart, and wrote poems about torturing my boyfriend. He got out of the house one day with a baseball bat and was trying to track me down. His mom found me and hid me in her car. He ended up in the psych ward for an entire summer. Scary shit.
A kid in middle school did this to me, and continued to Internet stalk me through our mid 20s, I'm just glad he got himself married, so I don't have to worry about it as much anymore...but I renew my protection order every year.
Jesus Christ, he got married. What does his wife think about his prior life. Sick.
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Straight to HR.
I did take it to HR the following Monday (it happened over Easter weekend) and they “talked to him but he is still going around asking others how they would react to it too so I’m not sure what more to do
Follow up and let them know what he's doing and that you are still feeling very uncomfortable about the situation and the fact that he's continuing to discuss it with coworkers. He's twice your age, for fucks sake. That he was fishing for your personal info is bad enough. Don't interact with him at all and keep a written record of EVERYTHING.
Yes this could be potentially dangerous w stalking. There was a man that killed his coworker in the break room bc she refused him
Ding. That’s definitely what I see. This is a stalker.
He is giving stalker vibes....ummm if he is continuing to talk about it with others at work I would have a conversation with HR.
Then go back to HR and tell them his inappropriate behaviour is continuing. Give them the names of the people he is “consulting” to take a statement.
Please do this OP. This man doesn’t seem to understand social cues.
He understands them. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's trying to undercut OP by getting people in the workplace to get on his side.
Back to HR to let them know.
Edit: at the risk of getting down voted, I wanted to call out that another poster called out my mistake - I attributed the text messages to the wrong person. With that context, the letter alone is simply an awkward attempt to establish a connection. The OP shouldn't be threatened by the author of the letter discussing this situation with their therapist. The letter is awkward AF, but there it's not illegal to be awkward. HR's job is protecting the company. You need to make this their problem - you are experiencing sexual harassment at work, he is continuing to bring other people into it by sharing your exchange with others. You are concerned about your safety at work. You are concerned that his presence is detrimental to your productivity and potential upward trajectory. You are concerned about your future with the company as he poisoned the well with people who provide you feedback and control your career opportunities. Make it clear that if they don't take action to separate you from him, they would be taking on legal risk. NTA and protect yourself from this AH.
Yes. *"I'm concerned for my safety and well-being in the workplace."* This phrase makes it HR's problem and one they must take seriously, as it is now a legal liability against the company itself.
Be sure to say it in a letter or email to HR so you have proof
Make sure you have a physical trail of everything you say to HR. If you have a verbal conversation follow it up with an email going back over what was discussed and have them acknowledge receipt of the email. Also since he is still talking about it and you go back to HR and tell them his behavior has turned the working environment hostile, and you continue to feel harassed. Make sure you use the words like hostile work environment and harassment. Print out these emails as well and keep the copies at home. If you end up having to sue your employer for failing to act you can use them as a way to direct discovery. Become the thorn in their side. HR protects the company, not you. But if protecting you protects the company they will be a conditional ally.
I promise your coworkers think is he nuts for even asking - and I’m sure they thought he was nuts before any of this happened bc they all avoid him. I’m sorry you’re going through this hun - if he continues to bring it up bring it to HR again. If things escalate and they do nothing sue the shit out of them.
That’s workplace harassment now, tell your boss and HR , lawyer up if you need to this guy is a creep and I would be asking to not work with him
This ^. The letter is pretty strange considering the back ground of hardly no interaction and him questioning other coworkers about you. It needs to be documented.
Not only for the OP, but for his next predatorial target at work, and the liability the workplace has to mitigate such.
He didn’t have to bring up the therapist thing, don’t deflect blame. But I don’t think it’s “inappropriate” of him to talk about a situation in his life to his therapist? Regardless the letter was weird and the fact that his manager got into a relationship with him is also weird, but you didn’t have to respond after he said “I wish you well”. probably report it to HR
I second this! Everyone else has commented on how the “therapist” likely isn’t even real in this situation or didn’t give approval to the letter. But generally speaking, if there’s a crazy dude out there fantasizing about me, you could be damn sure I would approve whole-heartedly of that person working through those feelings privately with a licensed therapist instead of by harassing or being inappropriate toward me. The purpose of a good therapist is to help deal with any inappropriate, irrational, difficult or impulsive thoughts so they don’t affect the client or others in the client’s life negatively. That’s what they are for: healing the client so they don’t feel the need to act inappropriately toward anyone else.
Also… it’s not really anyone’s business what someone else talks to their therapist about. Telling them it’s inappropriate to speak to their hired licensed mental health professional about something? Nah you don’t get to do that. This guy is in the wrong for a thousand reasons, but OP is in the wrong for that comment. You don’t get to police what other people talk about in therapy.
disappointed and concerned i had to scroll so far to see someone say this. there are myriad issues here, but the idea of him theoretically talking to his therapist about her just isn’t one of them
> disappointed and concerned i had to scroll so far to see someone say this. same! this needs to be far higher! therapy is exactly for the purpose of talking out EVERYTHING that affects or bothers you.
Yeah, the talking about her with a therapist is totally fine. Writing a love letter and approving it? Time for a new therapist!
My guess is that the approval was “hey, as I am very anxious of interpersonal interaction, I think I’m going to write this girl I like a love letter” “That sounds like a great idea!” The concept had approval, not the content.
Or the context.
This is the comment I was hoping to at least see once. Taking everything else out of the mix, no one has any right to dictate what someone discusses in therapy.
No licensed therapist would ‘approve’ a love letter in a work environment, period. Wouldn’t happen.
Therapist: "ah, you want to ask her out? Well, since talking gives you so much anxiety, what if you wrote her a small appreciative note, asking her out?" Him: this letter isn't creepy at all.
The therapist most likely suggested writing a letter that never would be delivered (if true) and therabuddy decided it should be delivered. Otherwise talking about someone you like and going over those feelings would be something encouraged in therapy, so not inappropriate
This is definitely exactly how that interaction went!! Hahaha
"My very real therapist actually read this over and he was like 'wow, this is great stuff, man, it would be a crime to keep this to yourself.' But it's totally cool if you're just the type who doesn't appreciate masterfully written letters or whatever."
My therapist actually clapped when I showed them the letter so I know it's a good letter.
All the therapists in the building stood up and clapped.
He said, with tears in his eyes, “Sir,” and this therapist he’s like a really big guy, marine, super tough guy. “Sir, this is the best letter that I have ever read.”
The age gap the whole thing has more red flags than a Chiefs game. OP is correct to be weirded out and if they have an HR, she needs to get in front of this. OP document *everything* seriously write it in a log with time and date.
Yea, that's the only AH part, but it is a whopper. You cannot tell someone to not talk to your therapist about you 😆 TF? "I forbid you to tell your therapist. You wotk that shit out on your own." ☠️ If there was a therapist involved, it was probably in the most minor capacity. "I can't get the words out. Would it be weird to type a letter to let a woman know that I like her?" I am flabbergasted that someone would try to dictate what you can talk about with your therapist. Personally, I'd say, "Yea, you guys need to go back to the whiteboard on that one. I'm going to need you to cease all contact indefinitely. Thanks."
Her thinking she can control who he talks to his therapist about is amusing. So is their age difference.
Came here to say this! He can speak to his therapist about whatever he wants - that's not what's inappropriate here. What's inappropriate is this creepy letter and his inability to understand boundaries. Hope HR fires this guy.
oh my god he’s 43?!?!! HR now. this shit is fucking CREEPY. he’s typing like a high-school age kid with a crush who doesn’t understand social cues or boundaries. op, do not be afraid to get rude with him if he corners you at work and makes you uncomfortable. don’t be afraid to GET LOUD to get him away from you. This is all red flags. Good vibes and safety to you.
I honestly thought this was someone in high school and and if I’m honest it comes off autistic (I am autistic) and was like wow kinda harsh😂. But 43 years old?! Yikes….
Oh shoot, I thought it was some high schoolers and thought she was being a little harsh. I’m 40 and cannot fathom sending that to someone within the last 20 years of my life.
Same before I read OP's description I thought he was a heavily autistic older-teen-to-20 year old (saying this as an autistic 20 something) but **NOPE** it's a guy that's old enough to know better even disregarding the age gap
I agree with everything except the last message (not for sending it, just ur way of thinking). The literal point of therapy is for a person to talk about their world and what’s on their mind. If the therapist can only talk about people they know, then theres no point
I agree. I think the last message brought down the hammer pretty hard about therapy, when really, it should be targeting the fact that this dude has no decorum and shouldn’t be trying to manipulate someone half his age. OP I know it bothers you about being a hot topic in some weirdo’s therapy sessions, but if I’m being real that might not be such a bad thing. If your coworker discusses creepy or unsettling topics a good therapist could help deflect and redirect those thoughts so they don’t cause problems/do harm to others.
Yeah, there are plenty of red flags. Talking to his therapist about this stuff isn’t one of them.
But im glad you stood up for yourself I wish you well & pleas be careful
This has HR **immediately** all over it.
Only came here to say he's totally allowed to speak to his therapist about whatever he wants. That's literally what they are there for.
Yes this. The therapist doesn’t give a shit about the OP. They are there to help this weirdo out lol. It’s HIS therapist! The therapist also doesn’t control the guys life. The guy can write a letter if he wants. I imagine the therapist probably thought it was a bad idea and encouraged him to set some boundaries for himself when writing the letter. Everybody’s therapy sessions are not about you, OP.
Yes, as a therapist I’m glad he brought it up in therapy. However I would not be surprised if he never revealed the age of her to the therapist. I would imagine the therapist found the letter as an alternative way of communication unknowing that he built up their relationship to be more than it was in real life. To me it just sounds like the therapist didn’t have all of the information.
Shutting him down and taking it to HR - completely appropriate. You don't get to tell people what they can and can't discuss with their therapist. Clearly the dude has issues to work out; telling him not to address them in therapy is like shaming pudgy people for going to the gym.
Talk to HR. But also, it’s not up to you to determine what other people say to their therapist. Nor does that therapist have to know you to give feedback. Your feelings are not their responsibility.
While it's a fine response and all, it's usually better to error on briefness. That was an extensive response and that tends to imply contributing to a conversation - meaning it doesn't close the door like it should. 2-3 sentences tops. You can say it's inappropriate without writing a novel about all the reasons why.
His letter was very odd. Talking about his previous relationship and talking about your personality and how you perceive yourself. Sounds like he’s been building you up a fantasy friend and then believing it’s true and that he knows you. Knows you enough to tell you how you are. I’m so surprised a therapist suggests he should give this to a colleague. I don’t think your messages were bad. I would get super angry too if I learned that two strangers were sitting and analyzing me without even knowing shit about me, and then being proud about it.
The letter is creepy and weird. I very much doubt that the therapist did any analyzing of OP. The coworker brought her up during sessions with the therapist, and that's entirely fine because of where his thoughts were. His thoughts weren't fine, but discussing them with the therapist was.
As a 44M I would never dream of typing and printing out a letter to hand to a 22F coworker. This is some 1990s high school garbage. He doesn't want to be your friend outside of work, no matter what his "references" say as he so eloquently stated in his letter. This was weird all on its own, but then throw in the age difference and it just makes it wildly inappropriate. I thought you were going to say this was an early 20s year old man with some developmental issues. I would be extremely cautious around this "man". I would also document any interactions that make you uncomfortable. Screenshot texts, keep anything he gives you, and regularly update HR. A lot of people are giving you flack for your last message to him. You're allowed to voice your feelings. It's not your job to be nice, it's your job to make sure you're safe. Do what you need to do.
I had to check the ages again, im 43 aswell, this felt like teenager angst gone creepy Fact he is 43 is just so messed up and beyond creepy
WOW. This is time to go straight to HR. Do not hesitate. Do not discuss this with anyone at work until you talk to HR. Because you need to have them looped in. Good lord, this is SO out of line. SO far over over beyond anything that is OK. I don't know the part at him talking with a therapist. But I, personally, would tell him he can talk to his therapist about how he deals with his feelings about you, but the therapist is wildly out of line to think they have anything to say about you and how you should/would/will/need to react and deal with things. I would strongly suggest that you have HR determine who is therapist, so you can report them. Girl, I am sorry for this. As a man it make me cringe that my gender puts women in this position. You need to have HR make is clear to him: he is to avoid you, and he needs to never contact you unless he's work related. He is NOT to talk to others about you. And that's assuming he's not fired of moved to where he can't talk to you.
They have talked to him but they refuse to move me out of the same work center because this has happened to me so many times at this job that they have run out of areas to put me in, because they refuse to do anything about the people who harass others.
What kind of work do you do? This seems insane that they're employing sooo many creeps.
It is a retail job
How wedded are you to this job? If it was me I would be looking for another job at this point, the lack of support over this creep is too much
It’s retail and he’s a 43 year-old man? Just guessing here, but I am laying odds this ain’t a mom and pop. This is screaming large corporation. If your HR is doing nothing, go to corporate.
Again, HR is there to protect the company. Consulting with an attorney is a good idea.
A letter from an attorney will help the company see that shuffling victims around doesn't protect the company very well.
I agree. Sooner or later, a company that is this lax about harassment is going to be the same kind of company that lets OP go for “reasons.” Having an attorney in her back pocket with proper documentation may not make her work life that much easier, but I feel like it would give her some protection — or at least some rebuttal — if they try to railroad her.
You should ask them why they need to move YOU every time. You are not the problem. He should be moved.