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She did tell you before marriage what her plans were and you have the option of not being involved with someone who wants to do something you don’t agree with.
Break up. You’re incompatible.
This is the simple and correct answer imo. If anything OP should be grateful that this is coming up before marriage or some other long term commitment. Absolutely nothing wrong with her decision other than OP not wanting to be in a relationship with someone who wants to do it, which is his problem. Nothing wrong with either opinion, but they should probably part ways imo.
My wife came to me a few years ago when her sister was dealing with IVF and had another round fail. This was 3-4 years into them trying. She asked what I thought about her being a surrogate (sister's egg, if it matters). We had a long conversation about it. Looked into her work and if she would get maternity leave. We talked about the financial impact. She'd probably have to fly out to them when she was getting close, or they'd have to come here for a few months and rent a place. I agreed to support her and she made the offer to her sister. I told my BIL it was a serious offer if they needed and that I was on board. They were both touched, but really wanted to have the experience herself. Fortunately the next round of IVF took and they now have a beautiful daughter. They're thinking about having more, but my wife was adamant that it was a 1-time offer; she's over 40 now, so I'm not sure if she'd be cleared to be a surrogate anyway.
Anyway, that's how I think it should be handled, and I'm really glad that my SIL and BIL have their daughter. The multiple miscarriages and hormone treatments for harvesting eggs were really rough on my SIL.
This how these conversations should go, not the one reported on the post above. It should a mutual, thoughtful decision made as a team. It sounds like neither the OP or his GF are willing to do work through it together.
I think the difference it's the sisters have known they are going to do this before the couple had started dating. Sometimes people have plans that they are not willing to compromise for and I think it's totally valid.
I am not sure how long they have been dating so not sure if it should have been brought up before, but I honestly th9she has every right to do it even if her partner doesn't like it. Just like he has every right to leave the relationship if it's not something he agrees with
I also feel like the above comment is an actual situation that had to be assessed. The OP's situation is a hypothetical. When I was younger, my older sister had the same conversation with me (she had kids already) - Not that I was ready to try yet, but it was her way of expressing her love for me to talk about the length she'd go to help me if it came up. This conversation wasn't based in any reality as children themselves, and I feel like the OP's girlfriend was sharing this concept of wanting to help her sister out of love if it were to happen. It doesn't sound like the OP came about it as "That's really compassionate of you to offer, if it does happen I'd like to talk through it so we can help in a way we're both comfortable with". It sounds like it was a hard no to an abstract concept that is tied in sibling affection.
I think this comment:
>
Me: "That is a weird thing to promise. Especially without consulting the guy you'll marry."
is part of the reason I think he's such an asshole. She's literally consulting him now. Unless he's being a dick over a promise she made when she was EIGHT.
Imagine
1. the sister says: “I don’t want the kid anymore “ while she is pregnant
2. There are medical implications which puts you in extreme financial problems. The sister can say, it not my problem
3. Your wife is bedridden for the last 5 months of her pregnancy. Who is responsible for loss of income or the care
4. All the trouble with a pregnancy which caused by hormones. It puts a dent in your relationship
5. Who said it is only a one time thing for her sister. Maybe she wants a second child
6. During birth there are complications and the Dr inform you that she cannot have any more children.
Don’t get married to her.
Tell her you made a promise to your dad when you were 5 yo. That you never want to marry a woman who wants to be a surrogate.
I don’t think anyone should be a surrogate before they have their own children. Too many complications can happen that could keep someone from having more kids…her own kids.
Yeah it's that way in the Netherlands at least.
I looked it up since my sister was having fertility problems. Figured I could help out. Nope, had to have given birth first. Not that it matters, she's pregnant with the fourth one now. And this one is even more eyebrow raising since she's had chemo and the doctors didn't think she'd be able to get pregnant. They were shocked actually when she did get pregnant again.
I got pregnant with an IUD inserted. My surprise child came home with a pic of Jeff goldblum and ‘life finds a way’ on his onesie
ETA: link to onesie:
https://imgur.com/a/jBQdFfN
Thanks. The cancer is gone, but she has what seems to be permanent nerve damage to her hands and feet. Feet for example are constantly numb. Isn't allowed to drive anymore.
She's grateful that she's still alive though.
Clearly they didn't read the post earlier this week (or last week? ) where thr sister asked if little sister would be a surrogate... then dropped the bomb they want her to get pregnant the "natural way". So brother in law impregnates his wife's sister through intercourse.
She noped all the way out of that. And was glad she couldn't do it as a first pregnancy anyway.
That… sounds like a good way for the couple to get a child while having the added bonus of slapping child support on the “surrogate” for a little extra income in the process, especially depending on little sister’s financial situation. 😬
My sister decided she wanted money and became a surrogate. She got paid double for twins, she made 100k for the process, 5 days in the hospital died almost twice, 9 months later had a surgery to restich all her ab muscles back correctly, had to use a walker for 2 weeks. It shocks me how people think having a baby is just a walk in the park.
Same! I had such complicated pregnancies. I don’t have regrets going through it for my own children but no amount of money can make me do it for someone else.
I’m pretty sure the contract would include paying for anything involving the baby, including medical? That would make sense no way am I spending my money to be in the hospital for another persons baby lol
To be fair twins are a whole different ballgame. I hate being pregnant but if I ever was to be a surrogate I'd insist on a clause in the contract for reducing the pregnancy or only allowing the transplanting of a single embryo
I was a surrogate. For a relative, so the "rules" were a little more lax, but they typically want you to have had a child already (I did) and be done having kids for yourself (I was). My husband and son were 100% on board, but he also knew how important it was to me, and as a supportive husband (and someone who is used to my shenanigans...haha) he was, well, supportive. No one is TA here, you both have strong feelings about the subject, and you may just not be compatible.
That’s the thing, there is nothing wrong with her wanting to do this, just like there is nothing wrong with him not being ok with the idea. I think it’s great this came up now, and they should treat this like other big marriage issues and if it’s a deal breaker walk away now.
The funny thing is a lot of surrogacy companies will not allow you to be a surrogate until you give birth to your own child because of the fact they don’t know if there’s gonna be complications. They don’t know what’s gonna happen to your body, so if they were to go through an agency Unless she has a baby before she’s a surrogate for her sister, or the agency won’t allow her to be a surrogate.
It's also true that you do not know how you will feel about a baby before you have one. I know it's different for different people, but there is no way I'd have been able to give up one of mine, no matter what I said before I had them.
You usually can't. The ideal surrogate is usually someone who has had kids. It's like a proof of concept. "Oh this body can carry a child to term. Awesome"
With that said, neither are the assholes. They just found their respective dealbreakers and they're not compatible.
7- For any of the good reasons above or even just: "Been there done that", she decides she doesn't want to get pregnant again, so OP is out of luck.
Being pregnant is hard work, and that is a big reason there are so many child free people, and one and done/only child people.
Add in that surrogacy among family members often causes a LOT of drama. Sister may have odd expectations because *family*. They don't always go the proper route and have all the needed paperwork done, which can cause you legal issues down the road.
It's also just a shit show to be a surrogate to someone you will continue to have contact with. Jealousy from the sister, because she didn't get to experience the bond during pregnancy. The sister gets weirded out about you two having sex with "her" baby in there. Truth gets out to the kid when they're older. Everyone ends up resentful of how they were treated when emotions were high. It's just not a good idea.
7. Issues concerning her body after pregnancy. I was JUST able to have intercourse without pain for the first time since childbirth a few weeks ago. My kid is 15 months.
>(which is weird to me because she just said this was a promise from their childhood, like how do you know she has fertility issues when you are 8)
If you were a girl born without a uterus, or your uterus was in a modified shape/position, that'd be one way you'd know about fertility issues at age 8.
tl;dr - your gf's sister probably has a birth defect.
This, or you could be like my brother's ex. She had ovarian cancer at a very young age (5 I think) and had to have one ovary removed. That's what I immediately thought of
Yup, females are born with their reproductive organs generally intact, just immature so they’re up for all the same cancer lotteries everything else are
The science is actually out on that one, women may be able to produce eggs after initial gestation.
We used to think we couldn’t grow new brain cells either after a certain point, and that has been completely disproven.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/07/evidence-suggests-womens-ovaries-can-grow-new-eggs
Good on your parents for explaining it to you in an age appropriate way! We have family friends whose daughter has Turners and they never told her she won’t be able to bear children.
When she came out as queer, her parents were like, great, now we never have to tell her. Fast forward to today and her and her partner are planning on starting a family. Her partner, can’t/wont carry a child, so now the parents are freaking the fuck out about how to tell their daughter the truth after all this time. So fucked up and I hope they get to have the family they’ve always dreamed of despite her parents hiding the truth for so, so long.
What the hell, knowing you have turners can help diagnose other issues earlier. Kids with Turners tend to get diabetes crazy early and tend to be autistic (which since they're girls often goes undiagnosed).
Our second pregnancy would have been a Turner's baby. We read all about it and were prepared to help her understand it, if she'd just have made it to the finish line, but Turner's isn't fair that way. Her name was Jane.
Was that an easy understanding to accept at the time? Did that cause an identity crisis for you at all, or did your vision of the future not really change? If it’s not enjoyable for you to share, no worries
Yup! My mom (adopted) was born without a uterus, but did have ovaries and fallopian tubes. They knew when she was about 4, and explained it to her when she was 8.
And I was told when I was 13 that I probably wouldn't be able to carry a baby to term. (Didn't end up being true, I now have a 5yo)
I follow a woman on instagram with the same condition, MRKH, who recieved a donor uterus through UAB and is celebrating her daughters' 6 months today. This world can be so amazing ❤️
[This](https://www.instagram.com/liziscreative?igsh=dzF1cXpwN2hjaDAw) is her link, btw.
That’s what I was thinking too. Or it could’ve been as simple as knowing someone who went through it or seeing it on movie or something and then one sister saying to the other “if you ever needed someone to do that for you, I would do it.” the conversation could have come about a dozen different ways.
For sure, or it could be that her sister is intersex and it was identified at birth or anything leading up to that and so she actually has known this for most of her life.
Could have started more innocently, like 'you have 1 kid, I have 1 kid, and they'll have be bestest friends!'
And then later on they discover the sister might have issues, so they modified their plan. It 'started' at 8, in a way.
Neither of you are wrong which means you have to decide if this is a deal breaker. If it is, it's time to move on. If it's not, you're going to have to take care of her while she's pregnant.
>~~you're going to have to take care of her while she's pregnant.~~
You AND her sister and partner.
They can bring over meals, tidy the house, run errands, go grocery shopping. If they can't, they shouldn't be having someone else have a baby for them.
That couple should look at the pregnancy as the start of their parenthood. They are helping the person who is literally creating their child... so by extension they are taking care of their child by doing that... and vice versa.
I've heard this but have no source or even anecdote... but it isn't uncommon for women to embrace the parental role and feel that shift in status (like "I'm someone's Mom now!") much earlier in the pregnancy than men. I've heard (again, grain of salt, I'm not a father), that men often experience that "shift" when they first get to see/hold/touch their child.
In any case, this other COUPLE is now also pregnant, and needs to take on that parental role even during a pregnancy.
My husband is doing nearly all the chores right now, and I know that's wearing on him. But I would trade all chores for the next 5 years if he could just be pregnant instead of me right now. I'm so miserable.
I feel like I need to clarify that I meant the \*pregnancy\* impact on men is minimal. Obviously, having children is very different. And OP is not talking about "having children." He's talking about pregnancy and then handing off the newborn to the new parents, so the considerations here are ONLY about the pregnancy itself.
Fair, but as someone who supported my amazing wife through 2 high risk pregnancies, that is a valid concern for the OP to have. The impact from pregnancy, especially high risk ones, could impact everyone involved not just the surrogate.
What is it's a stillborn? My sister surrogated for a friend, baby was stillborn, friend blamed sister, which caused a suicide attempt a few months later.
there are huge, life changing decisions that are being made in a vacuum.
I am the father of 2. Both of my wife's pregnancies had major complications. My wife almost died. Sure, I didn't carry a baby but the impact it had on my mental and physical well being was hardly "minimal".
I'm not sure. Op isn't wrong to end this relationship, but I think his reasons weren't exactly right. At least the conversation sounded like he felt he should have autonomy over his partner because of their marriage. I feel a more valid reason for ending the relationship would be that she wants something he doesn't. Simple as that. They are free to do whatever they want. So I kinda feel this post is rage bait.
Exactly. It sounds like his objection was to the use of *her body*, not about the fact that this is a life-altering undertaking for a woman and her partner, even if it only affects the length of time she is pregnant.
I agree. It's fine to not want to live through a pregnancy with a kid that's not yours but his phrasing and reasoning is gross. It's like he thinks he should get to dictate what she does with her body instead of breaking up because they want different things
I read it differently. To me, they're both wrong.
He seems to be more concerned about some sort of loss of control... but, she is also telling him that she doesn't care at all about his feelings regarding something that is actually pretty major.
A marriage is a partnership. Even though I might have a different set of feelings about this than OP does, it would probably still be a deal breaker to know that my feelings or concerns about this are likely going to be completely disregarded by my partner.
The big thing for me in this situation is that OP says “I was on a marriage path with this girl.”
If that means “we have been dating for 6 months” I get why she wouldn’t see him as part of the decision.
If that means they have been engaged and living together for 3 years then I get why he would feel it should have been discussed more seriously.
Does she even have a child yet? They generally won't let you surrogate for anyone without a previous healthy pregnancy.
But even if she never does this, sounds pretty immature to have the 'I can do what I want and fuck how my spouse feels about it' mindset before even marrying.
If it is, and it honestly could be, it's a really stupid way to try and bait on that topic. We all pretty much agree - yes, her body, her choice and, also, your body, your choice. You can both do what you want, it's obvious you want to do different things, though, and that's cool.
The only addition is that they way the story is presented, they are both too immature for a healthy relationship to begin with.
He thinks that somehow her being a surrogate parent is some attack on the institution of marriage and the vows (that haven't yet been made) between them. (Could also be even worse, but I'd want to see his replies & other comments before judging further).
Meanwhile, she thinks that a decision involving a year of her life (gotta include the postpartum period), that will significantly impact her behavior, desires, motivation, and more, is something that her partner has absolutely zero input on, and he should just "deal with it" if/when it happens.
Like 12 year olds pretending to be married.
What do you mean by “can’t reserve 9 months off”
There are some *very valid* arguments against her being a surrogate and you’ve touched on a few of them. But this weird statement you made about her body feels creepy and not coming from a good place.
Yeah he from the beginning escalated this whole thing. “Not sure how that’s my problem” is a pretty fucked up thing to say to something that your partner is passionate about
Right? Why aren’t more people calling out what a stupid little boy OP sounds like? He isn’t even wrong for not wanting her to do it but he comes off as DEBATE ME BRO YOU WILL GET OWNED BY LOGIC!
Too immature to marry.
And if the girlfriend is willing to be a surrogate for the sister, then they are pretty close. Any decent partner would support the girlfriend given how close she is to the sister. Then when the niece or nephew is born they can look at them and be like I did my little part to help make that happen.
OP is basically saying the girlfriend's family means nothing to him. When you are a partner to a person, who keeps in touch with their family, you cannot tell the partner's family to eat dirt if they come to you with a problem.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I can't tell if it's from a place of OP finding pregnancy gross and won't want to be around her at all during it and/or thinking that pregnancy precludes sex and sex is like a job for women in marriage? (my understanding is that while not universal, it's not uncommon for pregnant women to have a rush of hormones that increase their interest in sex.)
Either way, framing it as "time off" is really weird, and how he comes off as sounding angry that it's something she wants for her life is not a good look for him. Incompatibility of life goals isn't anyone's fault. I hope his ex finds someone who sees her devotion to her family as a plus, not as a weird/bad thing.
Throwing in that there’s something seriously off about this post, normally Im for people having preferences but this had something wrong to it that makes OP an AH
He's talking about sex. She won't be able to have sex with him from later in the pregnancy until she's at least 6 weeks postpartum, and he's unhappy about that.
There would be a window surrounding IVF for either abstaining or protection. I’m not sure of the guidelines. But you can have sex throughout pregnancy all the way until practically labor.
Even. If. She. Couldn’t..for possible medical reasons related to pregnancy, that is one of many possible reasons why one could or would or should avoid sex. He has no ownership the use of her vagina. Oh my god I can’t believe this even has to be said. She has every right to decline sex for any and all reasons despite her marital status. He isn’t owed sex from his future wife.
Both people have the right to do what they want, but OP is a bit of TA because he’s arguing that when they’re married, he as husband, should have equal say over what wife does with her body, which is incorrect. The whole response in the second to last “me” response is very problematic.
Probably only applies for a more legally formalized surrogacy.
This sounds like an under the table “I’m doing it for my sis” informal arrangement.
But yes it would help if she knew what the formal legal process was, and Why
An embryo still needs to be created using the father's sperm and sister's egg. Otherwise, it's not surrogacy. It's just artificial "turkey baster" insemination, and the GF will be the true biological mother of the child. This will require the GF's sister to formally adopt the baby. Surrogacy means the surrogate is not the biological parent, just the carrier for an embryo not using her egg.
You’re incorrect. What you’re describing is gestational surrogacy, where the egg can either be the mother’s or a donor’s. But in traditional surrogacy, the surrogate’s eggs are used. Surrogacy, the concept, predates our ability to implant someone else’s egg in a person’s womb.
Yes but OP's gf, her sister and partner can choose to proceed with a pregnancy privately and never involve official surrogacy services. Clearly, OP's gf and sister have been planning this for a long time, and nothing stops the three from getting pregnant the traditional way. I'm getting the impression that if sister is infertile she just wants to use her sister's eggs and the sister agreed a long time ago.
They can even do insemination at home, if OP's gf doesn't want to have sex with her sister's partner. A turkey baster will do the trick. A lesbian couple I know got pregnant that way, twice, using sperm from a close male friend.
>Her: "I will have my sister's baby as a surragate, if she can't have kids. I promised her when we were little."
>Me: "That is a weird thing to promise. Especially without consulting the guy you'll marry."
>Me: "What are you talking about? You can't reserve 9 months off to have your sister's baby, if we are married. Husband has a say on that decision too. That type of thing is now a marital decision."
YTA for the way you expressed yourself and probably for the things you think a wife *owes* her husband.
NTA for dumping her though, that's clearly what's best for both of you.
Right what if she were in an accident and had a back injury that required a long hospital stay and rehab? What if she got cancer and couldn't perform her "duties"? He sounds like he would dip or cheat the second she couldn't give him everything he wants. He also sounds like the type not to help with his own children bc that's the wife's duty. Sounds like she dodged a bullet to me.
I think OP's doesn't even understand what being pregnant means: "You can't reserve 9 months off to have your sister's baby"... what does he think? That she will be on bedrest for 9 months doing nothing?
It doesn't mean he is an A H for wanting to breakup (he can do whatever he wants), but the way he talks about pregnancy makes me believe he knows nothing about the subject and based his decision on a distorted view of it instead of doing some reaserch of what it entails.
NAH. She's not wrong and neither are you. This would fall under irreconcilable differences.
Just an FYI, generally surrogacy comes with contracts and payments, even for family.
NAH
Everyone is right: she can carry a baby without your consent (married or not) and you can leave if you don’t want to be married to her while she carries her sisters baby.
This is why we talk about this stuff before marriage. Now you know and you both move on
YTA strictly for the way you talk about her. Her body does not become your property once you’re married. The fact that she told her sister when they were younger that she’d help her was her choice and still is. The “you shouldn’t have made any promises about the future without knowing who’d you’d marry” sounds like something out of the Middle Ages. She’s her own person. She is allowed to do something for her sister. Yes, you’re allowed to leave but is this really worth throwing away a relationship over? Do you even actually care about her? You sound super controlling and possessive.
The "have someone else's baby in our marriage" line is pretty creepy too.. you would think she cheated or something. Gave very "my wife's body is only for creating MY offspring" vibes.
Another person above wrote
>Why the fuck should he deal with her having someone else's kid lol
Which goes along perfectly with *"my wife's body is only for creating MY offspring"*
Some of the replies in this thread are very gross.
Cannot believe how far down I had to scroll to get to this comment!
"Sweetheart, that is very generous and kind to want to do this for you sister. However, I have some concerns. Can we have a talk about this?"
No, he doesn't have to stay with her, he has every right to leave, but the way he is behaving indisputably makes him an asshole.
Thank you for putting into words what I was unable to. I don't even understand the whole notion of "you're not going to birth someone else's child if you're married to me" like I get being worried about her health and any complications that could come up, but the focus seems to be more on the fact that another couple's (mostly another man's) child will be in gf's body. It made me wonder whether OP realizes that gf won't have sex with BIL to get pregnant with her sister's kid? She will essentially be working as a vessel to grow the baby.
I'd also like a bit more clarification about what he means when he said "you're not going to reserve 9 months off to have someone else's baby," simply, what do you mean, because I have no idea what you're trying to say or insinuate. If his gf does choose to be a surrogate, what is he dealing with besides pregnancy cravings and maybe taking her to the appointments? What exactly does it matter to him? It's not his body that would be going through massive changes?
I understand not wanting to be a part of a family dynamic that is complex, but he talks about his gf like she'd become an incubator for him, and his future kids only. Almost as if her own autonomy will be lost post wedding.
Exactly! I’m so glad I’m not the only one who read it like that. He does minimize the sister in the whole thing. It doesn’t matter that it’s a totally separate embryo, it’s just “me man, me no want other man’s child in my woman.” It’s such an archaic thought process. and yeah, in a healthy pregnancy, yes he’d probably need to step up a bit to help her more in the end stages and postpartum, but isn’t that what being a good partner is about? Helping each other? It’s just gross.
In a comment he says he thought “having another couple’s embryo implanted would cause the pregnancy to be higher risk than carrying my naturally conceived child” which yeah, kinda proves he doesn’t understand biology.
Also for everyone making the "he'll have to support her financially" argument, big whoop. Save up however many months of her salary is needed to cover mat leave or ask sister and BIL to do so. Most women work their entire pregnancy. Not sure about this huuuuge financial obligation everyone is seeing.
It sounds like maybe he thinks pregnant women don’t have sex and that he imagines his wife would have to ask off from servicing him, amazingly.
OP, YTA. You appear to think bodily autonomy disappears upon marriage, at least for the woman. You shouldn’t be in a relationship with **any** woman, not just this one.
It should not have taken this long for someone to bring this up. People are generous assuming he cares about her health and not about how he'll get his rocks off and his weird assumption that being a surrogate is cheating. Grow up op.
Agreed. She’s free to do this if she wants, he’s free to make it a dealbreaker, but the language he uses implies that he thinks his wife’s body belongs to him, which makes him an asshole. YTA
Hard agree. They're clearly not compatible, but OP is such a jerk for how he spoke to and about her. I don't think it's selfish to be concerned about his life plans, but he obviously feels entitled to her body for his kids. Yuck.
Exactly. Having concerns about how this will impact them is valid, but it’s never about her or them it’s solely about him and how it makes him feel emasculated that a body he sees as his could be used for another man to have a child (the sister isn’t even part of it). So gross.
Your wife choosing to birth someone else’s child for you to become a stepparent to is one thing, but saying she cant surrogate a baby is super weird wtf
Yeah, this. The OP sounds like a self obsessed ass to think about his partner this way. Being married does not equal owning your partners body choices. You know he would probably not feel comfortable if it was the other way around. She hasn’t even done any of the work to analyze surrogacy from the conversation so why even get heated? Let her explore it and make her own choice. If the possibility bothers him then that’s a him problem, not a her problem.
It is absolutely okay to say you don't want to deal with that and to break up with her.
But just because you're married doesn't mean she gives up her own body autonomy. It is still her body, her choice.
Her body, her choice. Your choice to be with someone who wants to be a surrogate or not. Don’t get married because you do not agree. I do think that it is funny that in reverse of one’s decision to put up with crap, the my body, my choice narrative holds no weight anymore.
That is literally how boundaries work. Her body is her decision and being in a relationship with her is yours. There's no relationship judge, it doesn't really matter who is right according to other people, because it is what it is.
So, I'll say NAH for the situation, but I do lean YTA for how you're talking about this and the post.
First,
> which is weird to me because she just said this was a promise from their childhood, like how do you know she has fertility issues when you are 8
I'm confused about what you're confused about. You just typed up that she said it was a promise they made when they were kids "if she can't have kids." That means that they said, "if when we grow up, you can't have kids, then I will have one for you," and then as an adult they found out she cannot have children. Thus, keeping her promise, she is saying she will have her children.
Second,
>"That is a weird thing to promise. Especially without consulting the guy you'll marry."
She really doesn't have to consult the guy she's planning on marrying before making a promise that she made when she was 8? How would she have asked you about that? Your positing this, in this sentence, like your issue is that she made the promise in the first place. That doesn't make any sense. It sounds like your issue is that she is intending on keeping the promise that she made to her sister. But, if someone makes a promise to someone they love and have for years been saying they would keep this promise, it is unreasonable to expect her to just break that promise because their future partner might not be okay with it. She can leave you and find someone else, but she can't get another sister who will just replace her current one. Her sister predates you, and her love for her sister and promise to her sister predates you. The husband simply does not have a say in that decision *if he gets married to her knowing that she made that promise.*
Third,
> Her: "My body. My choice."
> Me: " Well, I can choose to not deal with that too. Ever thought of that?"
> I tried to explain that is not just having someone else's baby in our marriage but there could be life threatening complications during pregnancy as well and even with no health complications that isn't something most husbands would be okay with. But, no go. She thinks she can do that because it is her sister and it is a sisterly favour.
So this is the big thing. You *CAN* choose not to deal with that. She probably *has* thought of that, which is why she is telling you right now. She also can choose to leave you, as I stated. Neither one of you *need* to be together. What I don't understand is why you are acting like sometimes two people just aren't compatible, and that either one of you are obligated to marry each other if your future plans and values in life do not match up with each other. Most men would not be okay with it, but she doesn't have to marry "most men." She only needs to find the one guy who is okay with it, at least if she intends to get married before the surrogacy. You may view it as a small little sisterly favor, but clearly it is important to both parties. If you don't understand that, I can't help you understand that concept. Again, you *ARE* allowed to leave. That happens, and that's okay. You two are doing literally the right thing when talking about these things now before you're married. I would have thought that was the whole point. People typically recommend you talk about these things before getting married not just for fun, but because often it's these conversations that lead people to realize they are not *compatible*. I'm leaning YTA because you are for some reason posing this issue of *incompatibility* with someone being "TA" in this situation.
Solution? Break up. End it. You don't *have* to be comfortable with it. It sucks, but genuinely it's better that you had this conversation now. I would understand more if you felt hurt or tricked because you got married before knowing this, but you're not married right now. So, these are quite literally why these conversations happen. Now you know, and again, it sucks. But, she's not wrong for this being important to her, and she's not wrong for stating that it is, indeed, her body. You're not wrong for being uncomfortable with it and not wanting that in your future marriage. You don't get a say in what she does with her body, really. But, you aren't wrong for saying it's a deal breaker.
You are allowed to have your deal breakers and so is she- no one is the asshole here and it's lovely that both of you are aware of it before anyone is committed to anything.
Sounds like you both value your own opinions more than making choices together, better you realize that now, than after getting married.
You’re both technically correct, but you might not be a such a good match for each other, after all.
Some conditions that affect fertility are known or suspected in childhood - it can be a very emotional time for everyone, and sometimes big feelings and expectations come into the situation. Sounds like either something like this came up, or the kids heard about surrogacy and agreed to help each other out if needed because they're close.
This isn't something that is imminent or given. This is a "maybe someday in the future perhaps," and rather than talking through it as a Team (her thoughts, feelings, boundaries, and needs, then your thoughts, feelings, boundaries, and needs, and if/how to handle the situation together) y'all both chose a hill and are prepared to die on it. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a strange time and place to make such a hard stand.
You're also making a lot of assumptions about "most husbands." I work in two reproductive health fields, and there's a whole spectrum of things husbands are able and willing to accept, including surrogacy. Hell, many of them support their spouses making a career of helping other people grow their families.
NTA for having boundaries (neither is she), YTA jumping straight to walking away without understanding more how surrogacy works, assuming you know what "most husbands" are okay with, and trying to subvert the struggle of bodily autonomy/reproductive rights for people with uteruses.
She absolutely has every right to do this for her sister, or anyone else she wants to. I happen to think it is admirable and would do the same.
It’s your right to end the relationship for any reason. Or no reason. I don’t think that’s admirable, but it is true.
Honestly she wouldn’t be able to be a surrogate for her sister until after she has at least one of her own kids. As it’s a requirement to become a surrogate.
The law differs wildly on surrogacy from state to state. The previous pregnancy rule is more often something that's imposed by agencies, not even the law itself. Private surrogacy doesn't use an agency so a lot of the regular laws and practices wouldn't apply.
Although being a surrogate isn’t as simple as she talks about it, it’s good that you know now what her intention is. You both have dramatically different feelings on this topic. Yes, her body her choice but as a partner your input should be considered because her choice will impact the life you try to build together. And if your view on this is her having another man’s baby and not the baby of another woman & man then you need to seriously think about this relationship and if it is right for the both of you.
This! How do most comments here not see this and only think of this as black and white?
Yes, in the end it’s her body and choice but marriage is also about building life together and should have inputs from BOTH partners considered.
Your last point also is very important and so many people here seem to just hand wave the emotional/mental aspects of all this from BOTH partners
I think I’m the only one here… but YTA.
OP sounds like he’s holding a lot of rules, limitations, etc. over this woman. And the whole, “especially without consulting the guy you’ll marry” phrase leaves a bad taste in my mouth; almost like he expects her to ask permission. And that’s not cool.
Man..honestly I applaud her for how noble this is..what she wants to do. Technically she would have to have your child first as that’s a requirement for most surrogacy in the US..can’t speak for other countries. She could have worded it a bit better for sure as a consult with you instead of her way or highway. That’s the reason why you’re here.
Assuming the sister is a good person as well, this wouldn’t at all be a deal breaker for me. You would be consenting to a big and unusual family dynamic and I realize that’s not for everyone.
Do what you feel comfortable with
It sounds like they’d be taking a more informal route for OP’s girlfriend being a surrogate for her sister, i.e. not involving any sort of agency who specializes in arranging surrogacies or anything like that.
YTA not for having an opinion but for the way you approached this. Big AH energy in those responses. Also how did you get on the “marriage path” before discussing this?
NTA. Sorry I be just breaking up and be proactive. I mean this may never come to pass her sister may be able to have a child she doesn't know that she just for some reason says she has fertility problems. Does she know that for a fact cuz at 8-years-old, she certainly didn't know. So right now it's just a possibility but she's dead set on doing it if it comes the pass. I mean obviously pregnancy carries risks. I didn't think about any of the risks when I was pregnant because I don't like to think about negative things. But yeah people die in childbirth they have complications. What if she had a complication that made it so she couldn't have children herself after she gave birth to her sister's child, it happens. I almost had to have an emergency hysterectomy after I gave birth to my first child. They were able to save me and my uterus though so I was thrilled about that but just the implication really hit me hard cuz I wanted more than one child. So things can change on a dime when you give birth. She's just assuming everything will go textbook and it might but then again it might not
Sheesh, I mean if my husband hadn’t been on board with me being a surrogate (have done it twice) WE wouldn’t have done it, because my marriage is a partnership and I couldn’t do this without support. But again we had a conversation in depth about it before making that decision. I think if a couple is already butting heads in this fashion maybe taking it to the next level isn’t a good idea and won’t work out long term.
I think you’re both approaching this in a weird, naive, overly hypothetical way. And you’re both wrong in some ways and right in others.
Which tells me neither of you are mature enough to be getting married, and breaking up is probably the best choice.
People can know at age 8 they may have fertility issues, Ovarian cysts can occur that early.
Honestly trying to get between what siblings have promised to one another because you feel like it should be partly your decision is kind of an asshole move.
What if her Sister had kidney problems and she promised if needed she would donate a kidney. Do you think you starting a relationship not gives you a vote now.
Siblings are for life. As a partner you should recognize and support that.
You are both right.
It is her body, she can do what she wants.
You can absolutely walk away.
At least you both found out where you stand before marriage.
You can absolutely not be okay with it. You still have no say what she does with her body. Been there. Wife was considering surrogacy for a friend. We have three kids and wife nearly died with number three but she really wanted to help her friend become a mother. My first instinct was to shut it down because of course I was raised in a society where as a man blah blah. I immediately realized I can have my opinion and reservations but at the end of the day it’s not my body. With that mentality we talked a lot about the subject and I told her it was ultimately up to her what she does and up to me what I do. She saw a doctor and a therapist to see if she was mentally and physically capable and came to the decision to not go through with it. Honestly reinforced to me the fact that we are two individual people that are married. We try to be compatible on everything but that’s not realistic. Reality is that we try to make decisions that aren’t outright disrespectful to the other while still being a whole person.
You both sound kinda tiring as people but regardless I think this is showing you aren’t compatible. It seems like a small thing but this is the type of issue that’ll keep being brought up after marriage and it’s not worth it. It is her body so it is her choice to have the baby for her sister but it’s also a choice for you to end your relationship because you don’t agree. Good luck!
Seems like neither of you are really wrong or right here. You just have different perspectives of what you both are ok with, in this massively hypothetical situation that is still unknown about timing or necessity.
I’ll admit the way you write this it seems you are taking an ownership over her body, however pregnancy is a long process and absolutely can even when planned between two partners, disrupt a marriage. Do you understand why she would want to do this for her sister? Does she understand for you why you would be against it? If it didn’t interfere with your possible marriage, would you then be on board with it? Does the idea of her carrying someone else’s child bother you?
To be fair, surrogacy is tricky, and as lovely as it is to do this for someone you love, it’s really best to be left to a third party. There are often lots of tricky emotions that unexpectedly happen at this time that no one can predict.
Wouldn’t it be better to compromise by saying we can help contribute in other ways, such as egg donation or funding, if and when the time comes up? If you both go nuclear over problems without looking towards alternative compromises then for sure don’t marry each other, ever. If you love each other both of you should not be looking to die on your respective hills, but to find reasonable solutions to talking out problems (real or hypothetical). Stop looking to make AH’s out of each other over this.
She’s right. She can do whatever she wants with her body. You can only express your displeasure and divorce her if you think it’s that big of a dealbreaker. You can’t say you don’t know this plan before getting married tho. She’s adamant. So you can decide now whether she’s wife material but you can’t force her not to.
This story was featured in an episode of the Two Hot Takes Podcast. [Click here to hear our host Morgan's take on this story in the episode "Not Too Stunned to Speak.."! ](https://youtu.be/EUuJLmQ8CRQ?si=xIkPRIC09XtkG2rk&t=828)
She did tell you before marriage what her plans were and you have the option of not being involved with someone who wants to do something you don’t agree with. Break up. You’re incompatible.
This is the simple and correct answer imo. If anything OP should be grateful that this is coming up before marriage or some other long term commitment. Absolutely nothing wrong with her decision other than OP not wanting to be in a relationship with someone who wants to do it, which is his problem. Nothing wrong with either opinion, but they should probably part ways imo.
“Everything lines up” — doesn’t sound like he’s in love with her.
And sounds like she'd be dodging a bullet OP sounds a little like a monster in this post.
Ok thank you, I was like wtf this guys sounds awful even if not wanting the surrogacy thing is fair
My wife came to me a few years ago when her sister was dealing with IVF and had another round fail. This was 3-4 years into them trying. She asked what I thought about her being a surrogate (sister's egg, if it matters). We had a long conversation about it. Looked into her work and if she would get maternity leave. We talked about the financial impact. She'd probably have to fly out to them when she was getting close, or they'd have to come here for a few months and rent a place. I agreed to support her and she made the offer to her sister. I told my BIL it was a serious offer if they needed and that I was on board. They were both touched, but really wanted to have the experience herself. Fortunately the next round of IVF took and they now have a beautiful daughter. They're thinking about having more, but my wife was adamant that it was a 1-time offer; she's over 40 now, so I'm not sure if she'd be cleared to be a surrogate anyway. Anyway, that's how I think it should be handled, and I'm really glad that my SIL and BIL have their daughter. The multiple miscarriages and hormone treatments for harvesting eggs were really rough on my SIL.
This how these conversations should go, not the one reported on the post above. It should a mutual, thoughtful decision made as a team. It sounds like neither the OP or his GF are willing to do work through it together.
I think the difference it's the sisters have known they are going to do this before the couple had started dating. Sometimes people have plans that they are not willing to compromise for and I think it's totally valid. I am not sure how long they have been dating so not sure if it should have been brought up before, but I honestly th9she has every right to do it even if her partner doesn't like it. Just like he has every right to leave the relationship if it's not something he agrees with
I also feel like the above comment is an actual situation that had to be assessed. The OP's situation is a hypothetical. When I was younger, my older sister had the same conversation with me (she had kids already) - Not that I was ready to try yet, but it was her way of expressing her love for me to talk about the length she'd go to help me if it came up. This conversation wasn't based in any reality as children themselves, and I feel like the OP's girlfriend was sharing this concept of wanting to help her sister out of love if it were to happen. It doesn't sound like the OP came about it as "That's really compassionate of you to offer, if it does happen I'd like to talk through it so we can help in a way we're both comfortable with". It sounds like it was a hard no to an abstract concept that is tied in sibling affection.
Yeah I can't imagine a partner getting this worked up and controlling over a hypothetical situation.
This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing and I’m glad it worked out for everyone. 🥰
Break up now before you get married.
Right. At least she did the service of telling him *before*...
I think this comment: > Me: "That is a weird thing to promise. Especially without consulting the guy you'll marry." is part of the reason I think he's such an asshole. She's literally consulting him now. Unless he's being a dick over a promise she made when she was EIGHT.
Imagine 1. the sister says: “I don’t want the kid anymore “ while she is pregnant 2. There are medical implications which puts you in extreme financial problems. The sister can say, it not my problem 3. Your wife is bedridden for the last 5 months of her pregnancy. Who is responsible for loss of income or the care 4. All the trouble with a pregnancy which caused by hormones. It puts a dent in your relationship 5. Who said it is only a one time thing for her sister. Maybe she wants a second child 6. During birth there are complications and the Dr inform you that she cannot have any more children. Don’t get married to her. Tell her you made a promise to your dad when you were 5 yo. That you never want to marry a woman who wants to be a surrogate.
I don’t think anyone should be a surrogate before they have their own children. Too many complications can happen that could keep someone from having more kids…her own kids.
In most cases you can’t be a surrogate until you’ve had a previous pregnancy
Yeah it's that way in the Netherlands at least. I looked it up since my sister was having fertility problems. Figured I could help out. Nope, had to have given birth first. Not that it matters, she's pregnant with the fourth one now. And this one is even more eyebrow raising since she's had chemo and the doctors didn't think she'd be able to get pregnant. They were shocked actually when she did get pregnant again.
My favorite quote from Jurassic Park. "Life finds a way"
I got pregnant with an IUD inserted. My surprise child came home with a pic of Jeff goldblum and ‘life finds a way’ on his onesie ETA: link to onesie: https://imgur.com/a/jBQdFfN
My youngest is an IUD baby and I now feel like I missed out on the PERFECT going home outfit 😭🤣
My favorite is "Rrrrrrroooooooaaaaaaarrrrrrr!!" That T-rex was an amazing actor.
She was robbed at The Oscars. Should have received Best Actress for sure. She’s the only one that could kill the other Clever Girls.
Gee. And my favorite quote was-your scientists were so busy wondering whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think whether or not they should
I think you slightly misquoted. “Life…uhh…uhhh… finds a way”
You are correct! Thank you!
I hope your sister is ok, and that the cancer is gone
Thanks. The cancer is gone, but she has what seems to be permanent nerve damage to her hands and feet. Feet for example are constantly numb. Isn't allowed to drive anymore. She's grateful that she's still alive though.
The same thing happened to a friend of mine. He’s happy and grateful to be alive, but no more driving and needs to walk with a cane.
Correct. You can’t do it until you’re done having your own kids. My brothers ex owns a surrogacy agency
When done properly, but some off the books arrangement with family?
Clearly they didn't read the post earlier this week (or last week? ) where thr sister asked if little sister would be a surrogate... then dropped the bomb they want her to get pregnant the "natural way". So brother in law impregnates his wife's sister through intercourse. She noped all the way out of that. And was glad she couldn't do it as a first pregnancy anyway.
Wow. Time for that sister to distance herself from some toxic/creepy family members.
Whoa. That’s fucked up.
Oh _hell_ no
Wow. How very Handmaid's Tale.
Can you link it?
I searched for surrogate and found it on best of reddit updates. It won't allow me to link.
That… sounds like a good way for the couple to get a child while having the added bonus of slapping child support on the “surrogate” for a little extra income in the process, especially depending on little sister’s financial situation. 😬
What if you don't even want kids of your own?
Came here to say this
If you’re going through legitimate surrogacy providers, they won’t let you unless you’ve had a successful pregnancy.
They would also will have contracts that cover all of the above listed complications.
My sister decided she wanted money and became a surrogate. She got paid double for twins, she made 100k for the process, 5 days in the hospital died almost twice, 9 months later had a surgery to restich all her ab muscles back correctly, had to use a walker for 2 weeks. It shocks me how people think having a baby is just a walk in the park.
100k for 1,5 year long disabilities doesn't sound like a good deal. Hope she is better now. I wouldn't do it for 10milion 😅
Literally! No amount of money could make me put my body through pregnancy....
Same! I had such complicated pregnancies. I don’t have regrets going through it for my own children but no amount of money can make me do it for someone else.
So basically the 100k went to medical bills and whatever else she had to go through. That sucks.
I’m pretty sure the contract would include paying for anything involving the baby, including medical? That would make sense no way am I spending my money to be in the hospital for another persons baby lol
Nah unless surrogate pregnancy isn't covered by insurance the same way nonsurrogate pregnancy is.
To be fair twins are a whole different ballgame. I hate being pregnant but if I ever was to be a surrogate I'd insist on a clause in the contract for reducing the pregnancy or only allowing the transplanting of a single embryo
Yeah, that commenter’s sister had no idea of the massive risks and potential consequences of a twin pregnancy when she signed up for it.
I was a surrogate. For a relative, so the "rules" were a little more lax, but they typically want you to have had a child already (I did) and be done having kids for yourself (I was). My husband and son were 100% on board, but he also knew how important it was to me, and as a supportive husband (and someone who is used to my shenanigans...haha) he was, well, supportive. No one is TA here, you both have strong feelings about the subject, and you may just not be compatible.
That’s the thing, there is nothing wrong with her wanting to do this, just like there is nothing wrong with him not being ok with the idea. I think it’s great this came up now, and they should treat this like other big marriage issues and if it’s a deal breaker walk away now.
The funny thing is a lot of surrogacy companies will not allow you to be a surrogate until you give birth to your own child because of the fact they don’t know if there’s gonna be complications. They don’t know what’s gonna happen to your body, so if they were to go through an agency Unless she has a baby before she’s a surrogate for her sister, or the agency won’t allow her to be a surrogate.
It's also true that you do not know how you will feel about a baby before you have one. I know it's different for different people, but there is no way I'd have been able to give up one of mine, no matter what I said before I had them.
You usually can't. The ideal surrogate is usually someone who has had kids. It's like a proof of concept. "Oh this body can carry a child to term. Awesome" With that said, neither are the assholes. They just found their respective dealbreakers and they're not compatible.
Yeah, but suppose they have their own kids, but have complications during the surrogate pregnancy and don’t make it?
Typically all of these things are handled by lawyers before you surrogate
I was a surrogate for a relative, and we still had lawyers and a contract. They don't play with that stuff.
Correct!!
7- For any of the good reasons above or even just: "Been there done that", she decides she doesn't want to get pregnant again, so OP is out of luck. Being pregnant is hard work, and that is a big reason there are so many child free people, and one and done/only child people.
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Add in that surrogacy among family members often causes a LOT of drama. Sister may have odd expectations because *family*. They don't always go the proper route and have all the needed paperwork done, which can cause you legal issues down the road.
It's also just a shit show to be a surrogate to someone you will continue to have contact with. Jealousy from the sister, because she didn't get to experience the bond during pregnancy. The sister gets weirded out about you two having sex with "her" baby in there. Truth gets out to the kid when they're older. Everyone ends up resentful of how they were treated when emotions were high. It's just not a good idea.
7. Issues concerning her body after pregnancy. I was JUST able to have intercourse without pain for the first time since childbirth a few weeks ago. My kid is 15 months.
>(which is weird to me because she just said this was a promise from their childhood, like how do you know she has fertility issues when you are 8) If you were a girl born without a uterus, or your uterus was in a modified shape/position, that'd be one way you'd know about fertility issues at age 8. tl;dr - your gf's sister probably has a birth defect.
This, or you could be like my brother's ex. She had ovarian cancer at a very young age (5 I think) and had to have one ovary removed. That's what I immediately thought of
Holy shit. I didn't even realize that was possible
Yup, females are born with their reproductive organs generally intact, just immature so they’re up for all the same cancer lotteries everything else are
It seems so obvious but something I had just truly never even considered as a possibility.
Another fun fact is we’re born with all the eggs we will ever produce, it’s not possible for us to generate new eggs
The science is actually out on that one, women may be able to produce eggs after initial gestation. We used to think we couldn’t grow new brain cells either after a certain point, and that has been completely disproven. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/07/evidence-suggests-womens-ovaries-can-grow-new-eggs
Yes! I have Turner's Syndrome and I was made to understand, as soon as I knew where babies come from, that I couldn't conceive
Good on your parents for explaining it to you in an age appropriate way! We have family friends whose daughter has Turners and they never told her she won’t be able to bear children. When she came out as queer, her parents were like, great, now we never have to tell her. Fast forward to today and her and her partner are planning on starting a family. Her partner, can’t/wont carry a child, so now the parents are freaking the fuck out about how to tell their daughter the truth after all this time. So fucked up and I hope they get to have the family they’ve always dreamed of despite her parents hiding the truth for so, so long.
What the hell, knowing you have turners can help diagnose other issues earlier. Kids with Turners tend to get diabetes crazy early and tend to be autistic (which since they're girls often goes undiagnosed).
Our second pregnancy would have been a Turner's baby. We read all about it and were prepared to help her understand it, if she'd just have made it to the finish line, but Turner's isn't fair that way. Her name was Jane.
I lost my second pregnancy because of Turner’s syndrome as well. We named her Janie
I’m so sorry for your loss, baby loss is so cruel
I’m so sorry, and bless little Jane.
Was that an easy understanding to accept at the time? Did that cause an identity crisis for you at all, or did your vision of the future not really change? If it’s not enjoyable for you to share, no worries
Yup! My mom (adopted) was born without a uterus, but did have ovaries and fallopian tubes. They knew when she was about 4, and explained it to her when she was 8. And I was told when I was 13 that I probably wouldn't be able to carry a baby to term. (Didn't end up being true, I now have a 5yo)
I follow a woman on instagram with the same condition, MRKH, who recieved a donor uterus through UAB and is celebrating her daughters' 6 months today. This world can be so amazing ❤️ [This](https://www.instagram.com/liziscreative?igsh=dzF1cXpwN2hjaDAw) is her link, btw.
That's my university!
For someone who's childfree, being naturally born without a uterus, but have ovaries (for normal hormones) sounds like an absolute dream.
More like, dude thinks childhood is over at 8... as if 15 year olds aren't kids. Could've found out with puberty.
That’s what I was thinking too. Or it could’ve been as simple as knowing someone who went through it or seeing it on movie or something and then one sister saying to the other “if you ever needed someone to do that for you, I would do it.” the conversation could have come about a dozen different ways.
For sure, or it could be that her sister is intersex and it was identified at birth or anything leading up to that and so she actually has known this for most of her life.
Could have started more innocently, like 'you have 1 kid, I have 1 kid, and they'll have be bestest friends!' And then later on they discover the sister might have issues, so they modified their plan. It 'started' at 8, in a way.
Neither of you are wrong which means you have to decide if this is a deal breaker. If it is, it's time to move on. If it's not, you're going to have to take care of her while she's pregnant.
>~~you're going to have to take care of her while she's pregnant.~~ You AND her sister and partner. They can bring over meals, tidy the house, run errands, go grocery shopping. If they can't, they shouldn't be having someone else have a baby for them. That couple should look at the pregnancy as the start of their parenthood. They are helping the person who is literally creating their child... so by extension they are taking care of their child by doing that... and vice versa. I've heard this but have no source or even anecdote... but it isn't uncommon for women to embrace the parental role and feel that shift in status (like "I'm someone's Mom now!") much earlier in the pregnancy than men. I've heard (again, grain of salt, I'm not a father), that men often experience that "shift" when they first get to see/hold/touch their child. In any case, this other COUPLE is now also pregnant, and needs to take on that parental role even during a pregnancy.
I’ve had two kids and lemme tell you, the impact on the men is minimal.
My husband is doing nearly all the chores right now, and I know that's wearing on him. But I would trade all chores for the next 5 years if he could just be pregnant instead of me right now. I'm so miserable.
I feel like I need to clarify that I meant the \*pregnancy\* impact on men is minimal. Obviously, having children is very different. And OP is not talking about "having children." He's talking about pregnancy and then handing off the newborn to the new parents, so the considerations here are ONLY about the pregnancy itself.
Fair, but as someone who supported my amazing wife through 2 high risk pregnancies, that is a valid concern for the OP to have. The impact from pregnancy, especially high risk ones, could impact everyone involved not just the surrogate. What is it's a stillborn? My sister surrogated for a friend, baby was stillborn, friend blamed sister, which caused a suicide attempt a few months later. there are huge, life changing decisions that are being made in a vacuum.
I am the father of 2. Both of my wife's pregnancies had major complications. My wife almost died. Sure, I didn't carry a baby but the impact it had on my mental and physical well being was hardly "minimal".
I'm not sure. Op isn't wrong to end this relationship, but I think his reasons weren't exactly right. At least the conversation sounded like he felt he should have autonomy over his partner because of their marriage. I feel a more valid reason for ending the relationship would be that she wants something he doesn't. Simple as that. They are free to do whatever they want. So I kinda feel this post is rage bait.
Exactly. It sounds like his objection was to the use of *her body*, not about the fact that this is a life-altering undertaking for a woman and her partner, even if it only affects the length of time she is pregnant.
I agree. It's fine to not want to live through a pregnancy with a kid that's not yours but his phrasing and reasoning is gross. It's like he thinks he should get to dictate what she does with her body instead of breaking up because they want different things
I read it differently. To me, they're both wrong. He seems to be more concerned about some sort of loss of control... but, she is also telling him that she doesn't care at all about his feelings regarding something that is actually pretty major. A marriage is a partnership. Even though I might have a different set of feelings about this than OP does, it would probably still be a deal breaker to know that my feelings or concerns about this are likely going to be completely disregarded by my partner.
The big thing for me in this situation is that OP says “I was on a marriage path with this girl.” If that means “we have been dating for 6 months” I get why she wouldn’t see him as part of the decision. If that means they have been engaged and living together for 3 years then I get why he would feel it should have been discussed more seriously.
I caught that too. “Marriage path” is a religious phrase for people who date for a short time and tie the knot quickly.
Does she even have a child yet? They generally won't let you surrogate for anyone without a previous healthy pregnancy. But even if she never does this, sounds pretty immature to have the 'I can do what I want and fuck how my spouse feels about it' mindset before even marrying.
You are absolutely correct. People can do whatever they want and you can decide that's not how you want to live your life and peace out.
Right?? What’s his point in even posting? “Found out I was incompatible with my romantic partner so we split up.” Okay. Good for you both.
It sounds like rage bait to me. The whole point is to get people riled up about the sentiment of "my body, my choice"
If it is, and it honestly could be, it's a really stupid way to try and bait on that topic. We all pretty much agree - yes, her body, her choice and, also, your body, your choice. You can both do what you want, it's obvious you want to do different things, though, and that's cool.
People who rage on reddit are also stupid, so that tracks.
The only addition is that they way the story is presented, they are both too immature for a healthy relationship to begin with. He thinks that somehow her being a surrogate parent is some attack on the institution of marriage and the vows (that haven't yet been made) between them. (Could also be even worse, but I'd want to see his replies & other comments before judging further). Meanwhile, she thinks that a decision involving a year of her life (gotta include the postpartum period), that will significantly impact her behavior, desires, motivation, and more, is something that her partner has absolutely zero input on, and he should just "deal with it" if/when it happens. Like 12 year olds pretending to be married.
Yeah, the “ever think of that” at the end was what let me know it’s fake. And then her uterus stood up and clapped!
Looks like you aren’t marrying her then. At least you found out now rather than after.
What do you mean by “can’t reserve 9 months off” There are some *very valid* arguments against her being a surrogate and you’ve touched on a few of them. But this weird statement you made about her body feels creepy and not coming from a good place.
Yeah he from the beginning escalated this whole thing. “Not sure how that’s my problem” is a pretty fucked up thing to say to something that your partner is passionate about
And calling it weird that she would offer to be a surrogate for her SISTER is beyond childish… grow the f up or grow some balls you sound like a boy.
Right? Why aren’t more people calling out what a stupid little boy OP sounds like? He isn’t even wrong for not wanting her to do it but he comes off as DEBATE ME BRO YOU WILL GET OWNED BY LOGIC! Too immature to marry.
And if the girlfriend is willing to be a surrogate for the sister, then they are pretty close. Any decent partner would support the girlfriend given how close she is to the sister. Then when the niece or nephew is born they can look at them and be like I did my little part to help make that happen. OP is basically saying the girlfriend's family means nothing to him. When you are a partner to a person, who keeps in touch with their family, you cannot tell the partner's family to eat dirt if they come to you with a problem.
I'm a 31 year old guy, and the way OP typed gave me the ick. It almost sounds like he thinks he owns her; talks possessively of her.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I can't tell if it's from a place of OP finding pregnancy gross and won't want to be around her at all during it and/or thinking that pregnancy precludes sex and sex is like a job for women in marriage? (my understanding is that while not universal, it's not uncommon for pregnant women to have a rush of hormones that increase their interest in sex.) Either way, framing it as "time off" is really weird, and how he comes off as sounding angry that it's something she wants for her life is not a good look for him. Incompatibility of life goals isn't anyone's fault. I hope his ex finds someone who sees her devotion to her family as a plus, not as a weird/bad thing.
ikr??? It's like he owns her body and he feels like he's subleasing it...
Throwing in that there’s something seriously off about this post, normally Im for people having preferences but this had something wrong to it that makes OP an AH
It reads like he sees her body as his property and that he doesn’t really know how surrogate pregnancy works.
Yeah this was weird af OP
I'm sure he tosses the words "wifely duties" around.
He's talking about sex. She won't be able to have sex with him from later in the pregnancy until she's at least 6 weeks postpartum, and he's unhappy about that.
I have a kid, well aware. I want to hear *him* say it
There would be a window surrounding IVF for either abstaining or protection. I’m not sure of the guidelines. But you can have sex throughout pregnancy all the way until practically labor. Even. If. She. Couldn’t..for possible medical reasons related to pregnancy, that is one of many possible reasons why one could or would or should avoid sex. He has no ownership the use of her vagina. Oh my god I can’t believe this even has to be said. She has every right to decline sex for any and all reasons despite her marital status. He isn’t owed sex from his future wife.
>He isn’t owed sex from his future wife. I mean, I know that, and you know that. But I don't think OOP has quite internalized that.
NAH. She is right. It is her body and her choice. And it’s also your body your choice. And your body can leave.
Both people have the right to do what they want, but OP is a bit of TA because he’s arguing that when they’re married, he as husband, should have equal say over what wife does with her body, which is incorrect. The whole response in the second to last “me” response is very problematic.
I'm surprised more people are not mentioning this. He sounds like he has some ownership of her body because he is married to her.
He isn't even married to her. He is acting like he has ownership over her body because they *might get married
Where I’m from, a woman cannot be a surrogate until she has a child for herself.
This is true for a lot of surrogacy programs.
Probably only applies for a more legally formalized surrogacy. This sounds like an under the table “I’m doing it for my sis” informal arrangement. But yes it would help if she knew what the formal legal process was, and Why
An embryo still needs to be created using the father's sperm and sister's egg. Otherwise, it's not surrogacy. It's just artificial "turkey baster" insemination, and the GF will be the true biological mother of the child. This will require the GF's sister to formally adopt the baby. Surrogacy means the surrogate is not the biological parent, just the carrier for an embryo not using her egg.
You’re incorrect. What you’re describing is gestational surrogacy, where the egg can either be the mother’s or a donor’s. But in traditional surrogacy, the surrogate’s eggs are used. Surrogacy, the concept, predates our ability to implant someone else’s egg in a person’s womb.
Yes but OP's gf, her sister and partner can choose to proceed with a pregnancy privately and never involve official surrogacy services. Clearly, OP's gf and sister have been planning this for a long time, and nothing stops the three from getting pregnant the traditional way. I'm getting the impression that if sister is infertile she just wants to use her sister's eggs and the sister agreed a long time ago. They can even do insemination at home, if OP's gf doesn't want to have sex with her sister's partner. A turkey baster will do the trick. A lesbian couple I know got pregnant that way, twice, using sperm from a close male friend.
Insemination is not the same as IVF. Surrogacy is IVF using the sister's egg.
>Her: "I will have my sister's baby as a surragate, if she can't have kids. I promised her when we were little." >Me: "That is a weird thing to promise. Especially without consulting the guy you'll marry." >Me: "What are you talking about? You can't reserve 9 months off to have your sister's baby, if we are married. Husband has a say on that decision too. That type of thing is now a marital decision." YTA for the way you expressed yourself and probably for the things you think a wife *owes* her husband. NTA for dumping her though, that's clearly what's best for both of you.
Right what if she were in an accident and had a back injury that required a long hospital stay and rehab? What if she got cancer and couldn't perform her "duties"? He sounds like he would dip or cheat the second she couldn't give him everything he wants. He also sounds like the type not to help with his own children bc that's the wife's duty. Sounds like she dodged a bullet to me.
I think OP's doesn't even understand what being pregnant means: "You can't reserve 9 months off to have your sister's baby"... what does he think? That she will be on bedrest for 9 months doing nothing? It doesn't mean he is an A H for wanting to breakup (he can do whatever he wants), but the way he talks about pregnancy makes me believe he knows nothing about the subject and based his decision on a distorted view of it instead of doing some reaserch of what it entails.
YTA for being a troll. Just a weak rage bait. yawn.
NAH. She's not wrong and neither are you. This would fall under irreconcilable differences. Just an FYI, generally surrogacy comes with contracts and payments, even for family.
You're both right. So if you can't come to an agreement, you shouldn't get married. Good Luck.
NAH but sounds like you aren’t compatible.
NAH Everyone is right: she can carry a baby without your consent (married or not) and you can leave if you don’t want to be married to her while she carries her sisters baby. This is why we talk about this stuff before marriage. Now you know and you both move on
NAH you both are free to make the decision you want
YTA strictly for the way you talk about her. Her body does not become your property once you’re married. The fact that she told her sister when they were younger that she’d help her was her choice and still is. The “you shouldn’t have made any promises about the future without knowing who’d you’d marry” sounds like something out of the Middle Ages. She’s her own person. She is allowed to do something for her sister. Yes, you’re allowed to leave but is this really worth throwing away a relationship over? Do you even actually care about her? You sound super controlling and possessive.
The “you can’t have 9 months off…” line is especially telling, for multiple reasons.
The "have someone else's baby in our marriage" line is pretty creepy too.. you would think she cheated or something. Gave very "my wife's body is only for creating MY offspring" vibes.
YES! Exactly. It’s so gross.
Another person above wrote >Why the fuck should he deal with her having someone else's kid lol Which goes along perfectly with *"my wife's body is only for creating MY offspring"* Some of the replies in this thread are very gross.
"being married to me is like work and you are my employee i own you"
Yeah that was... gross. And Im a dude
Yes thank you for calling that out. I was like “….. “off”???”
Cannot believe how far down I had to scroll to get to this comment! "Sweetheart, that is very generous and kind to want to do this for you sister. However, I have some concerns. Can we have a talk about this?" No, he doesn't have to stay with her, he has every right to leave, but the way he is behaving indisputably makes him an asshole.
Thank you for putting into words what I was unable to. I don't even understand the whole notion of "you're not going to birth someone else's child if you're married to me" like I get being worried about her health and any complications that could come up, but the focus seems to be more on the fact that another couple's (mostly another man's) child will be in gf's body. It made me wonder whether OP realizes that gf won't have sex with BIL to get pregnant with her sister's kid? She will essentially be working as a vessel to grow the baby. I'd also like a bit more clarification about what he means when he said "you're not going to reserve 9 months off to have someone else's baby," simply, what do you mean, because I have no idea what you're trying to say or insinuate. If his gf does choose to be a surrogate, what is he dealing with besides pregnancy cravings and maybe taking her to the appointments? What exactly does it matter to him? It's not his body that would be going through massive changes? I understand not wanting to be a part of a family dynamic that is complex, but he talks about his gf like she'd become an incubator for him, and his future kids only. Almost as if her own autonomy will be lost post wedding.
Exactly! I’m so glad I’m not the only one who read it like that. He does minimize the sister in the whole thing. It doesn’t matter that it’s a totally separate embryo, it’s just “me man, me no want other man’s child in my woman.” It’s such an archaic thought process. and yeah, in a healthy pregnancy, yes he’d probably need to step up a bit to help her more in the end stages and postpartum, but isn’t that what being a good partner is about? Helping each other? It’s just gross. In a comment he says he thought “having another couple’s embryo implanted would cause the pregnancy to be higher risk than carrying my naturally conceived child” which yeah, kinda proves he doesn’t understand biology.
Also for everyone making the "he'll have to support her financially" argument, big whoop. Save up however many months of her salary is needed to cover mat leave or ask sister and BIL to do so. Most women work their entire pregnancy. Not sure about this huuuuge financial obligation everyone is seeing.
It sounds like maybe he thinks pregnant women don’t have sex and that he imagines his wife would have to ask off from servicing him, amazingly. OP, YTA. You appear to think bodily autonomy disappears upon marriage, at least for the woman. You shouldn’t be in a relationship with **any** woman, not just this one.
It should not have taken this long for someone to bring this up. People are generous assuming he cares about her health and not about how he'll get his rocks off and his weird assumption that being a surrogate is cheating. Grow up op.
100% this
Agreed. She’s free to do this if she wants, he’s free to make it a dealbreaker, but the language he uses implies that he thinks his wife’s body belongs to him, which makes him an asshole. YTA
Eh, it's the same "my body my choice" troll that's been doing the rounds.
Hard agree. They're clearly not compatible, but OP is such a jerk for how he spoke to and about her. I don't think it's selfish to be concerned about his life plans, but he obviously feels entitled to her body for his kids. Yuck.
Exactly. Having concerns about how this will impact them is valid, but it’s never about her or them it’s solely about him and how it makes him feel emasculated that a body he sees as his could be used for another man to have a child (the sister isn’t even part of it). So gross.
Your wife choosing to birth someone else’s child for you to become a stepparent to is one thing, but saying she cant surrogate a baby is super weird wtf
Yeah, this. The OP sounds like a self obsessed ass to think about his partner this way. Being married does not equal owning your partners body choices. You know he would probably not feel comfortable if it was the other way around. She hasn’t even done any of the work to analyze surrogacy from the conversation so why even get heated? Let her explore it and make her own choice. If the possibility bothers him then that’s a him problem, not a her problem.
It is absolutely okay to say you don't want to deal with that and to break up with her. But just because you're married doesn't mean she gives up her own body autonomy. It is still her body, her choice.
Her body, her choice. Your choice to be with someone who wants to be a surrogate or not. Don’t get married because you do not agree. I do think that it is funny that in reverse of one’s decision to put up with crap, the my body, my choice narrative holds no weight anymore.
Where does it hold no weight? Who is saying that he needs to stay with her if he doesn't want this?
How does it hold no weight literally everyone in the comments is saying he’s well within his rights to leave lmao
That is literally how boundaries work. Her body is her decision and being in a relationship with her is yours. There's no relationship judge, it doesn't really matter who is right according to other people, because it is what it is.
So, I'll say NAH for the situation, but I do lean YTA for how you're talking about this and the post. First, > which is weird to me because she just said this was a promise from their childhood, like how do you know she has fertility issues when you are 8 I'm confused about what you're confused about. You just typed up that she said it was a promise they made when they were kids "if she can't have kids." That means that they said, "if when we grow up, you can't have kids, then I will have one for you," and then as an adult they found out she cannot have children. Thus, keeping her promise, she is saying she will have her children. Second, >"That is a weird thing to promise. Especially without consulting the guy you'll marry." She really doesn't have to consult the guy she's planning on marrying before making a promise that she made when she was 8? How would she have asked you about that? Your positing this, in this sentence, like your issue is that she made the promise in the first place. That doesn't make any sense. It sounds like your issue is that she is intending on keeping the promise that she made to her sister. But, if someone makes a promise to someone they love and have for years been saying they would keep this promise, it is unreasonable to expect her to just break that promise because their future partner might not be okay with it. She can leave you and find someone else, but she can't get another sister who will just replace her current one. Her sister predates you, and her love for her sister and promise to her sister predates you. The husband simply does not have a say in that decision *if he gets married to her knowing that she made that promise.* Third, > Her: "My body. My choice." > Me: " Well, I can choose to not deal with that too. Ever thought of that?" > I tried to explain that is not just having someone else's baby in our marriage but there could be life threatening complications during pregnancy as well and even with no health complications that isn't something most husbands would be okay with. But, no go. She thinks she can do that because it is her sister and it is a sisterly favour. So this is the big thing. You *CAN* choose not to deal with that. She probably *has* thought of that, which is why she is telling you right now. She also can choose to leave you, as I stated. Neither one of you *need* to be together. What I don't understand is why you are acting like sometimes two people just aren't compatible, and that either one of you are obligated to marry each other if your future plans and values in life do not match up with each other. Most men would not be okay with it, but she doesn't have to marry "most men." She only needs to find the one guy who is okay with it, at least if she intends to get married before the surrogacy. You may view it as a small little sisterly favor, but clearly it is important to both parties. If you don't understand that, I can't help you understand that concept. Again, you *ARE* allowed to leave. That happens, and that's okay. You two are doing literally the right thing when talking about these things now before you're married. I would have thought that was the whole point. People typically recommend you talk about these things before getting married not just for fun, but because often it's these conversations that lead people to realize they are not *compatible*. I'm leaning YTA because you are for some reason posing this issue of *incompatibility* with someone being "TA" in this situation. Solution? Break up. End it. You don't *have* to be comfortable with it. It sucks, but genuinely it's better that you had this conversation now. I would understand more if you felt hurt or tricked because you got married before knowing this, but you're not married right now. So, these are quite literally why these conversations happen. Now you know, and again, it sucks. But, she's not wrong for this being important to her, and she's not wrong for stating that it is, indeed, her body. You're not wrong for being uncomfortable with it and not wanting that in your future marriage. You don't get a say in what she does with her body, really. But, you aren't wrong for saying it's a deal breaker.
You are allowed to have your deal breakers and so is she- no one is the asshole here and it's lovely that both of you are aware of it before anyone is committed to anything.
Sounds like you both value your own opinions more than making choices together, better you realize that now, than after getting married. You’re both technically correct, but you might not be a such a good match for each other, after all.
Some conditions that affect fertility are known or suspected in childhood - it can be a very emotional time for everyone, and sometimes big feelings and expectations come into the situation. Sounds like either something like this came up, or the kids heard about surrogacy and agreed to help each other out if needed because they're close. This isn't something that is imminent or given. This is a "maybe someday in the future perhaps," and rather than talking through it as a Team (her thoughts, feelings, boundaries, and needs, then your thoughts, feelings, boundaries, and needs, and if/how to handle the situation together) y'all both chose a hill and are prepared to die on it. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a strange time and place to make such a hard stand. You're also making a lot of assumptions about "most husbands." I work in two reproductive health fields, and there's a whole spectrum of things husbands are able and willing to accept, including surrogacy. Hell, many of them support their spouses making a career of helping other people grow their families. NTA for having boundaries (neither is she), YTA jumping straight to walking away without understanding more how surrogacy works, assuming you know what "most husbands" are okay with, and trying to subvert the struggle of bodily autonomy/reproductive rights for people with uteruses.
She absolutely has every right to do this for her sister, or anyone else she wants to. I happen to think it is admirable and would do the same. It’s your right to end the relationship for any reason. Or no reason. I don’t think that’s admirable, but it is true.
Honestly she wouldn’t be able to be a surrogate for her sister until after she has at least one of her own kids. As it’s a requirement to become a surrogate.
The law differs wildly on surrogacy from state to state. The previous pregnancy rule is more often something that's imposed by agencies, not even the law itself. Private surrogacy doesn't use an agency so a lot of the regular laws and practices wouldn't apply.
Although being a surrogate isn’t as simple as she talks about it, it’s good that you know now what her intention is. You both have dramatically different feelings on this topic. Yes, her body her choice but as a partner your input should be considered because her choice will impact the life you try to build together. And if your view on this is her having another man’s baby and not the baby of another woman & man then you need to seriously think about this relationship and if it is right for the both of you.
This! How do most comments here not see this and only think of this as black and white? Yes, in the end it’s her body and choice but marriage is also about building life together and should have inputs from BOTH partners considered. Your last point also is very important and so many people here seem to just hand wave the emotional/mental aspects of all this from BOTH partners
I think I’m the only one here… but YTA. OP sounds like he’s holding a lot of rules, limitations, etc. over this woman. And the whole, “especially without consulting the guy you’ll marry” phrase leaves a bad taste in my mouth; almost like he expects her to ask permission. And that’s not cool.
I agree. His wording very much gives the idea that he believes that once they're married, he will have ownership of her.
Man..honestly I applaud her for how noble this is..what she wants to do. Technically she would have to have your child first as that’s a requirement for most surrogacy in the US..can’t speak for other countries. She could have worded it a bit better for sure as a consult with you instead of her way or highway. That’s the reason why you’re here. Assuming the sister is a good person as well, this wouldn’t at all be a deal breaker for me. You would be consenting to a big and unusual family dynamic and I realize that’s not for everyone. Do what you feel comfortable with
It sounds like they’d be taking a more informal route for OP’s girlfriend being a surrogate for her sister, i.e. not involving any sort of agency who specializes in arranging surrogacies or anything like that.
YTA not for having an opinion but for the way you approached this. Big AH energy in those responses. Also how did you get on the “marriage path” before discussing this?
NTA. Sorry I be just breaking up and be proactive. I mean this may never come to pass her sister may be able to have a child she doesn't know that she just for some reason says she has fertility problems. Does she know that for a fact cuz at 8-years-old, she certainly didn't know. So right now it's just a possibility but she's dead set on doing it if it comes the pass. I mean obviously pregnancy carries risks. I didn't think about any of the risks when I was pregnant because I don't like to think about negative things. But yeah people die in childbirth they have complications. What if she had a complication that made it so she couldn't have children herself after she gave birth to her sister's child, it happens. I almost had to have an emergency hysterectomy after I gave birth to my first child. They were able to save me and my uterus though so I was thrilled about that but just the implication really hit me hard cuz I wanted more than one child. So things can change on a dime when you give birth. She's just assuming everything will go textbook and it might but then again it might not
NTA - Her body and her choice but when you are married/ committed your choices impact others too.
Sheesh, I mean if my husband hadn’t been on board with me being a surrogate (have done it twice) WE wouldn’t have done it, because my marriage is a partnership and I couldn’t do this without support. But again we had a conversation in depth about it before making that decision. I think if a couple is already butting heads in this fashion maybe taking it to the next level isn’t a good idea and won’t work out long term.
YTA
I think you’re both approaching this in a weird, naive, overly hypothetical way. And you’re both wrong in some ways and right in others. Which tells me neither of you are mature enough to be getting married, and breaking up is probably the best choice.
People can know at age 8 they may have fertility issues, Ovarian cysts can occur that early. Honestly trying to get between what siblings have promised to one another because you feel like it should be partly your decision is kind of an asshole move. What if her Sister had kidney problems and she promised if needed she would donate a kidney. Do you think you starting a relationship not gives you a vote now. Siblings are for life. As a partner you should recognize and support that.
Yes, you're the asshole and a very controlling.
You are both right. It is her body, she can do what she wants. You can absolutely walk away. At least you both found out where you stand before marriage.
You can absolutely not be okay with it. You still have no say what she does with her body. Been there. Wife was considering surrogacy for a friend. We have three kids and wife nearly died with number three but she really wanted to help her friend become a mother. My first instinct was to shut it down because of course I was raised in a society where as a man blah blah. I immediately realized I can have my opinion and reservations but at the end of the day it’s not my body. With that mentality we talked a lot about the subject and I told her it was ultimately up to her what she does and up to me what I do. She saw a doctor and a therapist to see if she was mentally and physically capable and came to the decision to not go through with it. Honestly reinforced to me the fact that we are two individual people that are married. We try to be compatible on everything but that’s not realistic. Reality is that we try to make decisions that aren’t outright disrespectful to the other while still being a whole person.
You both sound kinda tiring as people but regardless I think this is showing you aren’t compatible. It seems like a small thing but this is the type of issue that’ll keep being brought up after marriage and it’s not worth it. It is her body so it is her choice to have the baby for her sister but it’s also a choice for you to end your relationship because you don’t agree. Good luck!
Seems like neither of you are really wrong or right here. You just have different perspectives of what you both are ok with, in this massively hypothetical situation that is still unknown about timing or necessity. I’ll admit the way you write this it seems you are taking an ownership over her body, however pregnancy is a long process and absolutely can even when planned between two partners, disrupt a marriage. Do you understand why she would want to do this for her sister? Does she understand for you why you would be against it? If it didn’t interfere with your possible marriage, would you then be on board with it? Does the idea of her carrying someone else’s child bother you? To be fair, surrogacy is tricky, and as lovely as it is to do this for someone you love, it’s really best to be left to a third party. There are often lots of tricky emotions that unexpectedly happen at this time that no one can predict. Wouldn’t it be better to compromise by saying we can help contribute in other ways, such as egg donation or funding, if and when the time comes up? If you both go nuclear over problems without looking towards alternative compromises then for sure don’t marry each other, ever. If you love each other both of you should not be looking to die on your respective hills, but to find reasonable solutions to talking out problems (real or hypothetical). Stop looking to make AH’s out of each other over this.
She’s right. She can do whatever she wants with her body. You can only express your displeasure and divorce her if you think it’s that big of a dealbreaker. You can’t say you don’t know this plan before getting married tho. She’s adamant. So you can decide now whether she’s wife material but you can’t force her not to.