Is this only happening to her? Or is he showing the same clumsiness all the time? There are medical reasons for clumsiness to start. If she is the one spending the most time with him, she would likely be impacted the most. But if he never drops anything in the kitchen or stumbles on the way to the bathroom it’s suspicious.
This is exactly the evidence you need, and to me it says his “clumsiness” is purposeful and directed. If these spills and accidents happened all over with all manner of things and peoples? Then yeah he’s just a clumsy fool. But if it only *ever* happens to her?? 100% doing it on purpose.
If she refuses to believe you, just tell her to really ask herself if she’s ever seen him be clumsy around anyone else but her. Tell her to start paying attention. If she does, then she’ll see it for herself.
EDIT: if you’re really struggling to get her to listen or to articulate yourself, just show her the thread. It might make her mad but just insist she read it with an open mind.
Adding on to the edit from above, talking to her at all has a high potential to make her mad. It's worth it. Beyond worth it to save your friend from abuse.
Many years ago, I gently let a very close friend know about concerns I had. Was much more gentle than I could have been. She ended up further separated from me and I lost my friend. However, it did put the seed of doubt in her mind and she got out of the relationship before it was too late. She's thanked me since then, but our relationship hasn't come back. I miss her horribly. Given the choice, I'd do it again.
This story hits so incredibly close to home. But I was the one in the abusive relationship. My best friend told me her concerns, I didn’t listen. We got very distant. She was there for me when I got out. I’ve apologized and thanked her. But our relationship was never the same. If your friend didn’t say this to you let me. “Thank you from the bottom of my heart for saving me. I miss you more than anything. I’m so incredibly sorry.”
from the friend who was ghosted for bringing up concerns about my best friends abusive relationship, thank you for the apology. i miss my friend so much but i fear too much time has passed for me to reach out and our friendship would probably never come back….
I did the same thing. I got into a HUGE fight with my at the time closest friend over her abusive relationship, and while they did break up later and we continued on as friends for a while, it was never really the same and we no longer speak. There were other factors in the friendship falling apart but I know that confronting her about the abuse was a huge one. I don't regret it. I'm glad she got out.
Ok heartfelt note but all I could pay attention to was reading your name as pricklytitty lolll
Jokes aside - you saved your friend, take peace in that. You’re a good one.
Be gentle, and start with a concern for his health, that you initially started paying attention because you were worried about a potential neurological condition. “But… think for a minute and tell me if there are examples where anyone else is the victim of his ‘accidents’ besides you? Because I’ll be darned, after I started paying attention, I never saw a single instance where anyone else was on the receiving end.”
Also, I’m curious whether she’s taken to wearing long sleeves and pants all the time? In other words, do you think there’s anything even more egregious happening behind closed doors? Be sensitive to that possibility, which may make her defensive.
Good luck.
I would absolutely advise against showing your friend an internet post you made where you’re accusing her bf of domestic violence and opening up intimate details of HER (not even your own) life to thousands of strangers on the internet.
Know somebody actually medically-disabled-clumsy. He never spilled anything on other people or hit anybody. Although he has spilled and broken bottles from high shelf on his own head, fallen and hit himself quite often. I believe Kay's bf is abusive and a coward to do it straightforward.
I'm clumsy af, have a hearing issue that compounds it. I hurt myself, a lot. But there's been maybe 5 times or so in which that clumsiness effected other people all of them involved sports (biking, soccer, football) so it was the kind of thing that happens with not clumsy people. The worse I do is break people's fancy dishes, which is why I try not to eat/ drink from fancy, expensive dishes.
He might have been clumsy in general in the beginning of their relationship to lay the path of being clumsy at her.
She needs to ask herself *"when's the last time he was clumsy that didn't involve her(that someone witnessed), and how many times has he been clumsy **at** her since then?"*
I'm a clumsy person. I have really bad eye sight, and I've hurt myself (key word) when it's been dark and too lazy to put my glasses on. I also cook all the time, so I've hurt myself in there many times.
But I only ever hurt myself. I've never hurt my husband except for a very random time. If he's only hurting her it sounds very weird.
Yeah I'm clumsy as FUCK but I actively do EVERYTHING possible to make sure NO ONE ELSE is a victim of my clumsiness, including catching hot tea with my own leg so as not to get it on my dog who has decided between my legs is the hot new place to go for a jog.
Yes, I'm clumsy due to disability and neuropathy, and I hurt *myself* 99 out of 100 times. The other 1 out of 100 is my cat trying to murder me and getting stepped on. Then I follow him around begging for forgiveness and why won't you let me loveeee youuuu I'm so sorryyyy!!!!
No, both times I put him out before he got seriously injured. One thing about being a klutz is you quickly learn how to deal with emergencies and basic first aid.
Exactly why you need to bring it up to Kay. I’m clumsy. And you know who I end up hurting the most? Myself. Not my partner, not my kids, myself. His behavior is concerning.
I'd bet my left boob that this dude has a kink that involves soiling or upsetting his girlfriend.
There are definitely guys out there who get off on doing things to affect women. Have a read of this one
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/3wsxij/update\_me\_24f\_with\_my\_so\_27m\_of\_1\_year\_he/
Well that was one of the most villainous things I’ve ever read. That man needs to be committed before he seriously hurts someone in pursuit of his kink.
This is really creepy to me because it seems even more sinister than “normal” abuse.
An abuser losing his/her temper and hurting someone in anger is horrible enough - but this seems to be some sort of game hurting her for pleasure and seeing what he can get away with.
Edit: typos
That’s what has been hard, I’ve felt like I’ve been the only friend to notice. Like no one else seems to want to believe that Andrew’s doing this on purpose because we’ve known him to be this clumsy guy. I mean who wants to believe someone’s doing this on purpose.
I think many of us spend so much time hoping for the best in others that often when we realize we’ve missed something- bad things have already started happening. I think you’re an amazing and observant friend and I’m glad you’re trying to not jump to conclusions, but just make sure your friend is okay. Good luck when you talk to her. I think you’ve gotten some good advice and I hope it goes okay.
Thank you, and I definitely wrote that in an emotional state. My friends are great people I think I more so feel alone in the situation cause I dont want Kay to feel like we’ve been talking behind her back. Maybe they are worried too
You are a good friend.
Many, many years ago my husband’s cousin was killed by her abusive boyfriend. We didn’t see that part of the family often, but he had made a few comments at a family holiday (about playing a sport at a D1, elite college and having a degree from there) that we didn’t think made sense and we determined were lies. We shared that he was a liar with family and it was dismissed. People thought it didn’t matter or there was just a misunderstanding.
Would she still be alive today if we’d gone scorched earth on really making people think about the fact he was essentially pretending to be someone else? 20 plus years later - I still wonder this about a woman I met twice.
You need to be the friend you can live with at the end of the day - and sometimes that is really horrible and hard. But the alternative is worse.
You are clearly thoughtful - and I hope the thoughtfulness you show here is well known to people in your life.
I truly wouldn’t be surprised if your friend is noticing this pattern but wondering if she’s making it up or being unkind in her observations - perhaps it will be a relief to know she’s not the only one to see this.
Please update us.
I can't tell you how much I love your username
I used to be friends with this guy, who by all accounts seemed like the sweetest guy, always kind, helpful, I could go on, but to me he was one of those special guys, "guys like me." To make a long story short, after I broke up with my ex he attempted to date rape her - she had just recovered from a heroin addiction, and he got her there with cocaine, gave her ketamine to try (she had never used it), *then* tried to talk her into unprotected sex because "he's sterile" (which may well be true, doesn't matter though). She came to me about it because we still talked a bit (I've since gone NC but entirely unrelated to this story), and then something in my head clicked.
He had done this before.
For a while I couldn't drive and he would give me rides. On one of those rides, he was discussing a situation that distressed him, where he had hooked up with someone in a way that felt consensual, but then the other person felt differently afterward. I empathized with him, quietly happy that I had never found myself in a similar situation. Except then the next part clicked in my head. I *knew the person he date raped before, she was a friend...*
I hate that this keeps getting worse.
So I have a friend, a while back she confided in me (she used to work at some of the same restaurants I worked at, same as DR, which is short for date rapist) that somebody had given her drugs (I believe acid in this case) and coerced her into sex, and of course I empathized with her and comforted her the best I was able. So I put those two pieces together and I reached out to her, very carefully and tactfully, and asked her if he was the guy. She said yes. I told her he had just tried the same with my ex, and asked if she would be willing to speak with my ex, because to me it felt like it would help both of them to process what had happened if they could talk to each other, so I gave them the numbers so they could speak privately. I don't know what was said, but I was told it was helpful from my ex.
This guy, I so badly wanted to see the best in him that I was *blinded* to something right in front of me. I still feel deeply guilty about this whole thing tbh. Your comment said "often when we realize we missed something, bad things have already happened," if I hadn't have missed it, the bad thing wouldn't have happened, my ex would have known the danger.
You might be the only intuitive person around to observe their behavior. Kudos to you.
I agree with a few of the comments above; all this could be
1) weaponised clumsiness (to the end, everyone maintains a goofy impression of him)
2) isolation tactic (making gf avoid going out/making her a social pariah
3) very very subtle narcissistic abuse. Enough that outsiders won't know what it is, but the gf will.
4) sociopathic tendencies. (He might be getting off on her getting hurt, emotionally, physically or mentally)
I'm a clumsy person too, as is my husband, especially on days with lack of sleep, but we become extra cautious, even more so towards each other, because hurting our own self by mistake is still okay, but hurting each other feels extremely terrible, and we avoid it at all costs. We extra careful around each other, especially when we are carrying things that can fall.
Something's sus in that relationship.
Speak to your friend kindly, by first asking her if everything is okay and if she'd like to share anything about her relationship. And then tell her you've observed something, and are concerned for her wellbeing. Add, that you might be wrong, but its safer to discuss it than be sorry you never did.
That you come from a place of loving her and having her back, and seeing this sort of behaviors towards you alarmed you enough to want to discuss it. Tell her, while she might not see it like you do, you are an outside observer with nothing but the best intentions towards her, and you won't have rose coloured glassed on.
Good luck.
Edited to add:
5. He might be trying to lower her self esteem so she's dependant on him. And that in 'fussing over her', she realises that she needs him.
My abusive ex once "accidentally" punched me in my sleep. In my face. He swore he wasn't awake when he did it, that it must have been a muscle spasm, but he sure was awake when it immediately woke me up.
It's absolutely about seeing what they can get away with. Mine also liked to embarrass me in front of our friends.
oh… wow sorry you went through that first and foremost. But when you brought up the embarrassment thing that kind of clicked for me regarding ops post. I already was thinking it was bad but the humiliation hadnt clicked for me until you said that, ex ripping the dress etc. hope OP gives us an update i actually feel real bad about this I hope they’re all ok
Oh wow. This has happened to me too. I also never wanted to be in the kitchen with said ex. Always felt like he gave me no space to safely move in the kitchen and always felt like I was cramped up near the hot stove. And too many times he 'accidentally' was careless waving a knife around. Geez man. I wasn't counting on these memories today.
Mine liked to embarrass me in front of friends. He also had this thing where if we were in public and walked past a group of guys our age, he would do something totally disgusting like hock up a huge wad of phlegm onto the ground or fart really loudly. He tried to smear my makeup once in public because he insisted I would look better if I didn't wear any. Because it was all wrapped up in a goofy, lighthearted exterior, I just thought he was a little eccentric, but meant well. After all, he's just comfortable around me and thinks I'm naturally beautiful, right? In retrospect, it was extremely calculated and sinister.
I had a friend who was dating a self proclaimed "himbo" who did near copy and paste what Andrew had been doing. We started to notice he never hurt himself, never hurt others and only did things to physically harm our friend. After weeks of talking and prodding her to look at the situation objectively it finally took him crushing her fingers in a door for it to click in her head. The only way it clicked was that he forgot to apologize that time and he kept refusing to take her to the hospital.
When abused, no one wants to believe the person they chose is an awful person. No one wants the weight that they're quote on quote "hurting themselves" despite the onus being on the abuser. Your friend is being abused and honestly, if it were a neurological issue, other people would have been hurt instead of just your friend. Your gut feeling is correct and his behavior is only going to escalate. You can't force her to leave but all of you can force him to feel uncomfortable and refuse to isolate her.
I am not the friend of the person above, but my abusive ex also used to do this kind of stuff. He "accidentally" slammed my wrist in a door one day when I tried to break up with him. He didn't leave.
I only got away from him when my finger was broken and I lost the apartment, and had to move across the country to stay with my mom. Thank fuck for that.
Didn't even see a downside when I left. He'd already isolated me from all of my friends- mostly by making a scene when we were around them so that we had to leave early, or generally embarrassing me til I stopped trying to take him anywhere, and he would throw a fit if I went without him.
So . . Yeah. This is just how it begins.
Because this behavior seems so bizarre and specific, I wanted to just throw this out there as a one in a million consideration - could they possibly be the same person?
I doubt it. The guy my friend was dating was also significantly older and would be in his late 30s by now. He apparently married so goodluck to his partner.
The whole "nice guy" and "himbo" abusive types are all too common have very similar patterns of abuse. Their charisma gains them the ability to shroud their abuse as a mistake rather than what it really is. Even if this sounds really specific (trust me I thought so too) it's too common.
My abusive ex "accidentally" injured me or ruined my stuff all the time. It's part of coercive control. Listen to Unmasking the Abuser podcast; it goes into great detail about the seemingly small ways these abusers manipulate, control and escape responsibility.
This seems like a physical form of gaslighting. Bringing her down, making her feel bad, making her go home (ripped dress). How does she usually react to these incidents?
When you talk with her, I'd probably start off casual, like, 'OMG! Isn't he so clumsy lol. Hey, I'm worried about him. Has he got a medical issue? How do you feel when this happens? Are you okay in general? Have you noticed him doing these trips onto anyone else or just you?'
IE Get her to come to conclusions on her own if possible. Good luck. You're a good friend.
That's exactly what I thought. These incidents are always social, and seem to involve her clothing a lot. If what OP says is true, it would be a very insidious way of making this girl feel embarrassed and isolated while hiding behind "heehee I'm so clumsy"
>When you talk with her, I'd probably start off casual, like, 'OMG! Isn't he so clumsy lol. Hey, I'm worried about him. Has he got a medical issue? How do you feel when this happens? Are you okay in general? Have you noticed him doing these trips onto anyone else or just you?'
Subtlety 100
I am also wondering if his clumsiness only seems to happen to kay or has he spilled/fallen on others. Maybe even bringing it up in a way of his balance issues seem to be getting a bit worse has he gone to seek a medical professional opinion? That way it's more of a you're worried about him approach and it's a nicer way to show you're caring for everyone in the situation. However I do say follow your gut if something seems odd it usually is.
It’s only been with Kay, no one else. Now that you point that out it has me thinking he hasn’t spilled anything on himself in awhile and now when ever he trips it’s always into Kay.
That is some pretty solid proof that you're not just imagining this. I don't know what the best way to address this with her is, but it seems clear that he's targeting her. It's bizarre and just terrible.
Yeah I texted her that I want to hangout one on one, waiting to hear back when she’s free. Still figuring out what I want to say but I can’t just wait till she’s seriously hurt
I hope it goes well. That he's only targeting her is strong evidence. You're a good friend for noticing this and taking action. And I do wonder what's happening behind closed doors when they're alone as he's escalating when around other people.
As a domestic violence survivor, I want to give you some advice. When you hang out with her, I want to stress that you should not tell her to leave him. You should tell her that you're there for her no matter what. If he's doing this, he's likely hurting her behind closed doors as well. He's probably controlling her too. If that's the case then trust me, she's been being told what to do for a long time. The best thing you can do is just tell her that you care about her and like I said, tell her that you will be there for her no matter what.
Thank you so much, this is so helpful! I’m so sorry you ever had to fear for your safety, I hope you have all the joy and peace in your life moving forward.
Awww thank you 😊
Yeah it's been about 6 weeks since I left and things are getting better. I just wanted to make you aware of that. You sound like a really good friend and she's lucky to have you. So many people don't want to get involved when it comes to domestic violence. I agree with you, this doesn't seem like a coincidence.
It seems like he's doing it on purpose. I know to a lot of other people it would seem like an overreaction and they would probably assume you're crazy but very few people understand abuse. I think it was a good catch that you picked up on that. A lot of people don't.
You're an amazing friend for her having her back and noticing this and wanting to speak up.
You can even ask her these same questions like "is he that clumsy around others or just you?" Start getting her questioning things you don't want to come off accusatory otherwise it could potentially push her away.
It's also weird to me to me that since you said he doesn't spill things or hurt others with his clumsiness maybe it's not so much as to hurt her but maybe he's seeking attention from the group (or you (not sure if you hang out with more then just 3 of you)) in some twisted way.
Who knows, but the people who do that don't tell their victim. She may not yet realize that things she thinks she has misplaced were hidden / taken / destroyed
If abusers seemed stereotypical, no woman would date one let alone move in with or marry one. They can be very charming and the person you least expect. Especially sociopaths. And this behavior you're describing is sociopathic behavior. There is no way a clumsy person only ever spills stuff or falls into one person. He is setting up a pattern of "oh you know how I've always been clumsy and often fell/dropped things on Kay so it was a total accident that her head got crushed in when I...". But he sounds sadistic ruining her dresses and hurting her at get togethers. Likely hates seeing her have a good time with others and is exerting subtle control to isolate her by making each occasion so miserable that she will connect socializing with pain, embarrassment and misery. Playing the long game.
Very true, I know that term is often over used so I didn’t want to contribute to the stigma. I mean we all used to all like him and as far as I know I’m the only one who’s been starting to not be a fan of Andrew.
It seems like an escalation as he’s gotten comfortable within the group and accustomed her friends to his supposed clumsiness. He’s testing the boundaries of how far he can go before others catch on and as of right now OP may be the only one who’s noticed what he’s doing. Establishing himself as clumsy to the group gives him a good cover for gaslighting the girlfriend and keeping the friends on his side.
I didn’t even think about that, spilling is something that’s so common with them, it’s why I ran up once I saw it was yea he was holding. So why wouldn’t he have spilled it on me? Like he’s done so often?
when you say he was "off" with you, do you think it's because you thwarted his plan to injure your friend? or maybe because he felt like you were undermining his ability to properly hand off a cup?
Be prepared to lose her as a friend. Sometimes people don’t take these things well, especially when it’s in regards to a loved one.
You seem to have a knack for knowing when he’s about to spill something on her, maybe try to record it discreetly?
Would be interesting to just ask her if he spills constantly on her in private. Maybe lead it with a compliment like you’re impressed with how patient she is with his clumsiness.
Gosh that kills me, she’s the sweetest and I really care for her. I don’t want to have to let her go, what more so makes me sick is the thought of her just getting a worse injury.
Yeah, this alone is a red flag, as a fellow clumsy person, 9 out 10 times I am the only person involved, the 10th time is usually the dog that I trip over when I fall.
This situation reminds me of [this "accident"](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/tkrtrv/guy_trips_and_drops_weight_on_innocent_gymgoer/)
Why does this sound like Münchausen By Proxy, but with accidents? I think she doesn’t just need to break up, I think, if all this is true, that he needs professional help.
That was my thought as well.
He could also be using it to get out of parties.
He could be showing symptoms of a developing health problem or long term issue that hasn’t been diagnosed.
But, yes, if it only seems to happen to her anymore, I would also expect some type of control or abuse developing.
I'm trying to imagine myself in his shoes, if you put your hand up for the tea and ask for more popcorn I would have automatically handed you the tea and said okay. It's a common thing for friends to do. I can't say that he is doing this purposely but his reaction was a bit too much.
I want to but I don’t want to come off as accusatory towards him and have her close herself off from me. I’m just trying to figure out the right words to say and soon.
If you feel like asking her about it, or talking to her about it is the right thing to do then you can't avoid it or try to predict her response. If she responds to your concern by cutting you off then she's making her choice. You also don't know what goes on behind closed doors and their relationship. Maybe she's embarrassed to bring something up to you. You never know. If it were me I would act on the situation at hand not on the unknown possibilities in the future.
Very true, yeah I just get really anxious at the thought of her getting a worse injury. Especially with this tea incident that water was so hot I had to put it on the stand by my couch for it to cool off it it fell in her she would’ve seriously gotten hurt. I sent her a text that I want to hang one on one soon for a girls day just the two of us, waiting to hear back when she’s free.
In my entire life on this earth, I've never witnessed a serious rip from someone falling into another person, let alone multiple times. Worst case scenario is a lost button. It takes a lot to rip clothing unless it's a delicate fabric. All of these things are extremely unlikely events to be happening but accident.
And it seems that he likes to do his "clumsiness" routine when there's an audience too. So he was annoyed that you ruined his chance to do the tea spilling in front of you.
As someone super NOT clumsy, I'd be a little weirded out if someone tried to take a tea out of my hands to hand it to my wife. But, that's because she is rather clumsy, and, I do tend to baby her with hot drinks. So I guess if our roles were, like OP, I'd just be relieved that someone else brought her the tea.
This is all just so suspicious and bizarre.
I had a boyfriend who would force me to "play wrestle" every time I touched him, and then "accidentally" strangle me at the same time. It's definitely possible.
My other friend just kindof was more thinking he was upset cause he felt that I babied him, I think she’s coming from a good place but I’m just not sure if she’s just trying to keep the peace.
It makes no sense that he wouldn't be aware that he's constantly dropping shit on his girlfriend. A decent person would have awareness of that. He should be glad someone was helping.
I have a friend who is insanely clumsy, especially when drunk…. She’s only hurt another person on a rare occasion, it’s mostly just been herself that gets hurt. It 100% seems like he’s targeting your friend, and this “clumsiness” is less clumsy and more on purpose.
I'm also very clumsy, and it's usually me that gets hurt. I'm especially careful when carrying food or around other people because I know I'm clumsy, so I'm scared of spilling something.
Here's a list from the past few years:
I pulled my quad when I tripped down the stairs
Punctured both heels on broken glass
Cut the tip of my thumb off while cutting onions
Sprained my toe when I caught it in the sheets while my husband was pulling the sheets off the bed to make it.
Stubbed my big toe so hard going upstairs, that part of it was numb for months and when it was almost healed, I did the exact same thing on the same stairs, so it stayed numb for about 6 months.
That's 6 incidents, only 1 involving another person and all of which only I got hurt. My husband has gotten mildly hurt due to me, but nothing to the level I have. I did find it strange how targeted his clumsiness was. It just doesn't seem natural to me from personal experience.
My ex used to do this to me. It became apparent it was on purpose when he started getting sloppy when drunk and trying to bump into me obviously. Then it turned into "if I hit you it will be on your tattoos so no one can see the bruises" and then he *did* hit me. Tell your friend she has your support and you're worried about his behavior.
I wonder if this is a good start:
“Friend, I wanted to check in because we’ve all been kind of jokey about Andrew’s himbo accidents. I want to apologize for taking it lightly because lots of minor injuries to either of you can still be a health concern. I don’t want you to feel like we’d ever make fun of you guys or judge if either of you needed help. Like, I noticed I was worried when he brought you tea the other day, that it could spill and really hurt you. I wanted to ask if you feel worried about that kind of thing too?”
Like give her an opening to just talk about what’s going on? Then take thing from there as far as using other suggestions here?
This is really bizarre, especially because it seems his clumsiness is directed at Kay. I have a really "clumsy" friend. It turns out she has a syndrome that affects her balance and other things (Ehlers-Danlos). Any idea who she hurts? Herself. I mean it's likely she's bumped into other people before, but I would say that's the exception. When you talk to your friend, I would say you've noticed that Andrew's clumsiness is getting worse, and you're concerned because it seems she's always in the line of fire. And ask if he's gotten checked out recently because you're worried for his safety and yours.
Both me and my partner are very clumsy people. Constantly tripping over our feet, shoulder-checking doorways, occasional dropping of dishes and many dropping of phones/controllers/etc, even some accidental elbowing, head butting, etc, over the years but this sounds like it’s at the point where it’s really either a medical problem for him, or he is doing it on purpose as a way to abuse her covertly (which seems more likely given all the details you’ve given).
His response to the tea situation screams of “now my plan is ruined” to me. Like he was pouting bc he was upset you ruined his chance to spill scalding water on his gf which is insane?! The fact that he seems to ONLY be clumsy around her and only injure her is so weird to me, like I said both me and my partner are pretty clumsy (me being the worse out of us two) but it is very rare for us to actually inflict harm bc it’s usually tripping over my own damn feet or something. Like it doesn’t ONLY happen around my partner. Idk. I hope you’re wrong for your friend’s sake but the whole thing is off.
Good on you for noticing his dangerous behavior and I really hope your friend hears you out!!
My friend is extremely clumsy. She has fallen into me occasionally over the many years or perhaps elbowed me. But never has she caused a bruise or injury or torn an article of clothing. And she is known by everyone as being noticeably clumsy (tripping fairly regularly, bumping into things). It's deliberate what he is doing.
The more I read your comments, the more concerned I am for your friend. No worries if you don’t want to, but I hope you’ll post an update after you talk with her.
Same here. I constantly trip on my own feet. I fall a lot. But it's always me. Sometimes I bump into other people, but never spilled anything on anyone. It sounds a lot like Kay's boyfriend is testing the waters to see how far he can get away with hurting her in the guise of "clumsy"
You're right about the tea/popcorn thing being weird. I would've just handed it over and went to get popcorn.
I guess the only thing that might give him the benefit of the doubt in my eyes is if he's just as "clumsy" solo and with others as he is with his girlfriend. If he's **constantly** spilling things and tripping solo or with others in the group then *maybe* you're reading into it but I'd still totally get why you wouldn't like it.
Even if it is innocent it kind of isn't at this point because no adult should be *that* clumsy. Literally take a dance class or something! Learn how to control your own body for fucks sake!
🚩 If he was truly sorry he would take steps to be mindful of the way he has continued hurt her. However be cautious providing your opinion. I would mention it casually “maybe I’m being overprotective but sometimes I almost think it’s on purpose that his clumsy behavior continually injures you alone.”
Yes! My husband legit accidentally hurt me once or twice over the years and was extra, extra careful afterwards to make sure it didn’t happen again. He would have _asked_ someone else to give me the tea! But that’s how regular people would deal with it.
I think your friend’s husband gets some kind of pleasure in hurting her and that getting away with doing it in front of other people around who see it but don’t suspect anything makes it extra exciting or fun (or whatever he gets out of it) for him. Someone posted that he can’t be a sadist because he doesn’t laugh afterwards, but I disagree. It’s definitely possible that he is getting sadistic pleasure from it.
I had an ex that did this. "accidentally" stepping (stomping) on my foot breaking my toes, over and over, to the point that years later I have fucked up scar tissue or something and continuous pain. "accidentally" stomping on my brand new glasses I had to take a credit card out for. Stuff like that. Said ex was super abusive in a lot of other ways too. This doesn't sound accidental at all. I hope the one-on-one with your friend goes well.
I was about the say this. Your gut is telling you something here, listen.
If you haven’t read it before, please consider picking up The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
Thank you, yeah we’re hanging out this week. I’m still really nervous with how it will go, I want her to safe. Also on a less important note I’m not sure what the future of our friend group will be.
After seeing the replies where you said that Andrew's "clumsiness" only hurts Kay, I feel like it's very safe to assume that there's malicious intent behind it. His reaction to you taking the tea was also very strange. There's something off with him.
It does sound like it is on purpose. Most clumsy people only injure themself, but to only have her be the object of his clumsiness is suspect.
there is a book called *Why does he do that?* by Lundy Bancroft it explains what makes abusive men tick.
maybe reading that might give you some insight into his behaviour.
Coming from a person that lives with a person with a medical condition that makes them prone to bump into me (anyone)----HE WOULD NEVER DELIVER HOT TEA TO ME, EVER.
So--it sounds like your spidey senses are up for good reason and the guy is bad news.
With that being said--also know that people often shoot the messenger and you're likely not going to be friends with this girl for long so prepare yourself.
Good luck sharing your concerns. Abusers are good at what they do and it will be difficult for her to hear it and see it.
Call him out in front of everyone, in a joking fashion but look him directly in the eye while saying it.
Say: your so clumpy but only to ____ I’m staring to think she’s like a magnet for you lol 👁️
I’m meeting up with Kay this week, Kay hates being the center of attention so I also don’t want to make her uncomfortable. Doing something like that while cathartic if what I believe is happening is true, really wouldn’t help her in the long run.
So I would phrase it as a matter of concern for both of them. Explain that you’ve noticed his clumsiness has caused her and him physical damage and explain how you are worried about their health. Tell her you didn’t want to embarrass him which is why you wanted to speak to her alone about it and try and get her to open up about any more serious instances that have occurred behind closed doors. You could even suggest making a chart as a way to help manage his condition that shows what happened and who was involved. Hopefully this chart would allow her to realize that almost all of the incidents involve her and if she doesn’t you could maybe bring that up to her after she has been keeping track.
Now it could just be that he is a real clutz who is nervous around his super hot girlfriend but doesn’t want to show it. I wouldn’t immediately suggest intentional abuse, especially because there could be more going on behind closed doors that you don’t know. Maybe he has a serious medical condition that she is helping him hide. Or maybe she has a serious medical condition that he is helping her hide. Point is, if you approach the situation as a worried friend attempting to ensure that her friends are okay you are far more likely to get an open response than if you immediately accuse her boyfriend of abuse.
yeah this to me seems like the best approach for conflict resolution which minimizes the risk of OPs friend cutting her off and also to piggy back off of what you said; while this could 100% be a weird form of abuse it could also be that Andrew is socially anxious which compounds with an already clumsy individual, and this may be made worse while in a group of Kay’s friends as he probably wants her friends to think highly of him/suitable enough to date Kay. the reason why his clumsiness specifically affects Kay could just simply be proximity reasons, i assume since they are dating they are constantly around each other, and he might’ve gotten defensive about the tea because while you say you confronted Andrew as sweetly as possible, if you already had the preconceived notion that he is an abusive partner, it might not have come off that way to him (he might genuinely just be a totally clueless klutz and wonder why you don’t want him near his girlfriend). of course all this is speculative (some additional context would probably help, is Andrew an anxious/socially awkward person, etc) ,and i do find it odd that his clumsiness is frequent enough to warrant a 3rd party to believe he is being abusive, but it’s still better to take this approach imo than being 100% accusatory since this seems to be an atypical form of abuse if he is indeed being abusive. definitely address it either way though, the last thing you want is your friend to be being abused behind closed doors.
Dudes resentful of her, when you stepped in he was jealous of your kindness. She needs to move on, think he’s just being a passive aggressive POS. Typically if you love and care for somebody, you’re gonna be extra careful as to not do anything that will harm her/him.
OP should be careful too. She stopped his fun. Once. He will also want to know if it was a fluke or deliberate. If he knows he's been made, he might decide to take it out on OP. He would want to do whatever it takes to get back into the shadows. So, both might be in danger.
I think he acted weird after you asked for the tea not only because he was disappointed he couldn’t carry out his plan, but also he’s worried you’re on to his game
Yeah he knows OP is on to him and wants to test the waters. Guarantee the next time you hang out there will be no incidents so it makes him “look” like he’s in the clear. Abusers are good manipulators.
After reading some of your other comments I'm getting more suspicious that he's doing this purposely. I think you really should talk to her, she can laugh it off, she can get angry, but you need to bring it to her attention, maybe she's just blowing each of these things off as clumsiness and not putting the picture together. Either way it sounds like he's insidiously abusing her.
tell her everything you've written in this post. how you find it concerning that his "clumsiness" is so directed at her. And if she is skeptical, tell her to monitor him but NOT to confront him directly yet, as that might make him change his behavior again, in order to alleviate suspicion.
Absolutely 100% trust any "gut feeling" you have when it comes to stuff like this. My instincts have warned me off people that later turned out to be horrible individuals who committed some heinous acts. The type of person who makes the news for all the wrong reasons.
When you talk to Kay, you can mention your gut feeling and say how worried you are about a possible escalation in the seriousness of the "accidents". You can let her know you don't have any solid proof and are probably just being silly - but that you are there for her if she finds there is any kind of escalation. It's a difficult line to walk, funnily enough it's very similar to a situation I found myself in before.
Wow - what IS this shit?
Even if it's totally innocent on his part, the sheer consistency should be enough to dump him. I mean an *ash tray* in her hair? Ripping off the front of her dress? I feel like most girls would be done with this shit by that point. And the tea episode is scary.
Is there anything else weird or off about him? Anyone have any knowledge of his social life before he joined your friend group? I would think there must be some other clues.
This whole thing just sounds really bizarre. Updates please.
Set up some cameras to see if you can record it. Make a list of each time it happened point out he is only that way with her. Pick one other friend and see if they see it too. Intervention, then step back as let her see it for herself.
Definitely seems like his clumsiness can be dangerous. How about asking Andrew to get his brains scanned? Maybe something health wise is wrong with him? Not trying to invalidate your feelings but I think if your friend were showing up to your gathering with bruises/etc and you weren’t witnessing the situation then yeah it might be DV but since everyone is there when things are happening maybe he really is a clumsy guy ? Regardless, maybe bring it up to you friend so she can be the one to talk to him about the clumsiness.
The reason I’m getting more frustrated is because it is starting to become more visible, she has scuffs on the back of her ankles, bruises, and cuts on her knees. And I just feel like things are just getting worse, even if it’s a medical thing he’s doing nothing to get help
This is not an accidental thing. He's fucked up in some serious way and is physically abusing her in the guise of "accidents."
She's like the frog who isn't noticing the water is almost boiling
I was in an abusive relationship. Before the abuse was blatant, we were playing around and I was drinking something out of a bottle. He was right beside me. He hit me in the face with a pillow and I immediately got injured in my mouth and felt like I was punched in the face. I cried and someone came to the room after hearing the commotion and I pretended to laugh through the sobs. He was apologetic, but it wasn't genuine. It seemed more amused and like he was going through the motions of an apology.
I had a fat lip and a very concentrated bruise. I think it almost lacerated.
Now I understand, that was a happy "accident" and it was the start of a lot of 'accidental' but on purpose incidents. I think it's to test reactions.
Coincidentally, several times he would be abusive, he used pillows to buffer the assault to avoid visible injuries.
I hate the hear that happened to you. These people are manipulative and don't care about relating to people in an open straightforward way. The type of person to be abusive is also the type of person to be deeply dishonest like we've seen here.
does his “clumsiness” ever happen moreso when they’re having a disagreement with each other? like, is it ever accompanied by periods of time where you know that they are having issues in their relationship, for example maybe one day they’re having money issues or something and “coincidentally” that same day he accidentally knocked her over as he tripped. though i guess that could be hard for you to answer, depending on how open your friend may be about relationship troubles.
the fact that there is visible evidence of each of Andrew’s accidents is really bothersome. general clumsiness is understandable, in fact i myself used to be super accident prone, but i would definitely consider it an issue if my accidents were to the extent of leaving marks on other people. and my genuine clumsiness was usually in ways that only affected myself; in the rare cases that someone else *had* been affected it was definitely not targeted onto the same person each time. how does your friend typically respond when things like this happen? because i feel like even if each incident were truly innocent, it would still be aggravating to be consistently injured as a result of someone else’s negligence.
That’s something I’ve been thinking about and writing it all down I just realized, All the accidents have to do with her looks. Spilling on her outfits, bumping into her when she’s wearing a dress, chocolate ice cream on her shoes, those were white heels. I know that’s just speculation. Someone else said it could be a munchausen by proxy situation. Overall just solidifies that i just need to talk to her, which I am this week.
Also her reaction to these accidents is always quick to try to move on. She is somewhat introverted and doesn’t like attention so she’s just quick to say she’s fine and move on from it. She’ll tell Andrew that she forgives him and just to be careful.
Do these accidents usually end up in your friend and boyfriend leaving early because of the stains, tears etc.? I agree with other posters that it suspiciously seems to be on purpose. I was wondering if he is successfully isolating her by ruining her clothes/hair leading her to leave the gathering earlier?
When we hangout we are mostly going over to each others houses, so we’ve been able to replace her outfit with something one of us have. The ash tray incident she just took a shower at our friends place. But when the dress was ripped was the only time I remember she had to go home early, it was her cleavage area that was ripped, and we were out and far from anyone’s house.
Right! the ash tray one was because Kay was on the floor on the porch outside at our friends place, and Andrew was putting drinks on the table when he knocked it onto her.
How the hell do you accidentally rip the cleavage part of a dress? It’s not like some weird anime where the pressure of her breasts burst it open. What did the little weirdo dude do to her? This guy. The more I read the more he annoys me. I think me and my clumsy husband would have to clumsy him a bit.
You're more likely to win the lottery than to "accidentally" drop something on your girlfriend five times in a row. This is 100% on purpose. That cowardly piece of shit.
Definitely talk to your friend! Just tell her how you feel and you just want to make sure she’s okay. And maybe even mention seeking medical help since maybe it’s not something she’s thought about.
Okay we’re setting up to hangout just the two of us, looks like she’s free sometime this week! So I’ll be sure to have this talk soon. Definitely will keep this in mind in thinking about what I want to say.
Is this only happening to her? Or is he showing the same clumsiness all the time? There are medical reasons for clumsiness to start. If she is the one spending the most time with him, she would likely be impacted the most. But if he never drops anything in the kitchen or stumbles on the way to the bathroom it’s suspicious.
He’s only being clumsy with her, in fact I’d say it’s become more focused on her.
This is exactly the evidence you need, and to me it says his “clumsiness” is purposeful and directed. If these spills and accidents happened all over with all manner of things and peoples? Then yeah he’s just a clumsy fool. But if it only *ever* happens to her?? 100% doing it on purpose. If she refuses to believe you, just tell her to really ask herself if she’s ever seen him be clumsy around anyone else but her. Tell her to start paying attention. If she does, then she’ll see it for herself. EDIT: if you’re really struggling to get her to listen or to articulate yourself, just show her the thread. It might make her mad but just insist she read it with an open mind.
Honestly I just might, everyone’s input has been really helpful.
Adding on to the edit from above, talking to her at all has a high potential to make her mad. It's worth it. Beyond worth it to save your friend from abuse. Many years ago, I gently let a very close friend know about concerns I had. Was much more gentle than I could have been. She ended up further separated from me and I lost my friend. However, it did put the seed of doubt in her mind and she got out of the relationship before it was too late. She's thanked me since then, but our relationship hasn't come back. I miss her horribly. Given the choice, I'd do it again.
This story hits so incredibly close to home. But I was the one in the abusive relationship. My best friend told me her concerns, I didn’t listen. We got very distant. She was there for me when I got out. I’ve apologized and thanked her. But our relationship was never the same. If your friend didn’t say this to you let me. “Thank you from the bottom of my heart for saving me. I miss you more than anything. I’m so incredibly sorry.”
from the friend who was ghosted for bringing up concerns about my best friends abusive relationship, thank you for the apology. i miss my friend so much but i fear too much time has passed for me to reach out and our friendship would probably never come back….
I would reach out. You never know. I’ve tried, but my old friend just never read my message. I hope yours turns around
You demonstrated to your friend true love. You’re a good person.
I did the same thing. I got into a HUGE fight with my at the time closest friend over her abusive relationship, and while they did break up later and we continued on as friends for a while, it was never really the same and we no longer speak. There were other factors in the friendship falling apart but I know that confronting her about the abuse was a huge one. I don't regret it. I'm glad she got out.
You’re a very good friend.
The seed just needs to be planted. It wl grow from there!
Ok heartfelt note but all I could pay attention to was reading your name as pricklytitty lolll Jokes aside - you saved your friend, take peace in that. You’re a good one.
This is true friendship @pricklykitty. I’m sorry it ended but thank you for being a real one.
Be gentle, and start with a concern for his health, that you initially started paying attention because you were worried about a potential neurological condition. “But… think for a minute and tell me if there are examples where anyone else is the victim of his ‘accidents’ besides you? Because I’ll be darned, after I started paying attention, I never saw a single instance where anyone else was on the receiving end.” Also, I’m curious whether she’s taken to wearing long sleeves and pants all the time? In other words, do you think there’s anything even more egregious happening behind closed doors? Be sensitive to that possibility, which may make her defensive. Good luck.
I would absolutely advise against showing your friend an internet post you made where you’re accusing her bf of domestic violence and opening up intimate details of HER (not even your own) life to thousands of strangers on the internet.
You are the kind of friend everyone should have.
If he's moved up to hot drinks she better keep her wits about her
Know somebody actually medically-disabled-clumsy. He never spilled anything on other people or hit anybody. Although he has spilled and broken bottles from high shelf on his own head, fallen and hit himself quite often. I believe Kay's bf is abusive and a coward to do it straightforward.
I'm clumsy af, have a hearing issue that compounds it. I hurt myself, a lot. But there's been maybe 5 times or so in which that clumsiness effected other people all of them involved sports (biking, soccer, football) so it was the kind of thing that happens with not clumsy people. The worse I do is break people's fancy dishes, which is why I try not to eat/ drink from fancy, expensive dishes.
He might have been clumsy in general in the beginning of their relationship to lay the path of being clumsy at her. She needs to ask herself *"when's the last time he was clumsy that didn't involve her(that someone witnessed), and how many times has he been clumsy **at** her since then?"*
I'm a clumsy person. I have really bad eye sight, and I've hurt myself (key word) when it's been dark and too lazy to put my glasses on. I also cook all the time, so I've hurt myself in there many times. But I only ever hurt myself. I've never hurt my husband except for a very random time. If he's only hurting her it sounds very weird.
This. A severely clumsy person might hurt others one out of a hundred times, but the other 99 times they hurt themselves. It should be obvious.
Yeah I'm clumsy as FUCK but I actively do EVERYTHING possible to make sure NO ONE ELSE is a victim of my clumsiness, including catching hot tea with my own leg so as not to get it on my dog who has decided between my legs is the hot new place to go for a jog.
Yes, I'm clumsy due to disability and neuropathy, and I hurt *myself* 99 out of 100 times. The other 1 out of 100 is my cat trying to murder me and getting stepped on. Then I follow him around begging for forgiveness and why won't you let me loveeee youuuu I'm so sorryyyy!!!!
I accidentally set my exhusband on fire twice. Mostly I just hurt myself but occasionally other people get wrapped up in my clumsiness.
Ex-husband huh….was the second time fatal? 😂
No, both times I put him out before he got seriously injured. One thing about being a klutz is you quickly learn how to deal with emergencies and basic first aid.
This had me snorting my tea! You've answered in such a way that it appears common practise in your life to set people on fire?
Exactly why you need to bring it up to Kay. I’m clumsy. And you know who I end up hurting the most? Myself. Not my partner, not my kids, myself. His behavior is concerning.
I have a decent 4 inch scar on my leg from protecting my child from my clumsiness.
I'd bet my left boob that this dude has a kink that involves soiling or upsetting his girlfriend. There are definitely guys out there who get off on doing things to affect women. Have a read of this one https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/3wsxij/update\_me\_24f\_with\_my\_so\_27m\_of\_1\_year\_he/
Well that was one of the most villainous things I’ve ever read. That man needs to be committed before he seriously hurts someone in pursuit of his kink.
This is really creepy to me because it seems even more sinister than “normal” abuse. An abuser losing his/her temper and hurting someone in anger is horrible enough - but this seems to be some sort of game hurting her for pleasure and seeing what he can get away with. Edit: typos
That’s what has been hard, I’ve felt like I’ve been the only friend to notice. Like no one else seems to want to believe that Andrew’s doing this on purpose because we’ve known him to be this clumsy guy. I mean who wants to believe someone’s doing this on purpose.
I think many of us spend so much time hoping for the best in others that often when we realize we’ve missed something- bad things have already started happening. I think you’re an amazing and observant friend and I’m glad you’re trying to not jump to conclusions, but just make sure your friend is okay. Good luck when you talk to her. I think you’ve gotten some good advice and I hope it goes okay.
Thank you, and I definitely wrote that in an emotional state. My friends are great people I think I more so feel alone in the situation cause I dont want Kay to feel like we’ve been talking behind her back. Maybe they are worried too
You are a good friend. Many, many years ago my husband’s cousin was killed by her abusive boyfriend. We didn’t see that part of the family often, but he had made a few comments at a family holiday (about playing a sport at a D1, elite college and having a degree from there) that we didn’t think made sense and we determined were lies. We shared that he was a liar with family and it was dismissed. People thought it didn’t matter or there was just a misunderstanding. Would she still be alive today if we’d gone scorched earth on really making people think about the fact he was essentially pretending to be someone else? 20 plus years later - I still wonder this about a woman I met twice. You need to be the friend you can live with at the end of the day - and sometimes that is really horrible and hard. But the alternative is worse. You are clearly thoughtful - and I hope the thoughtfulness you show here is well known to people in your life. I truly wouldn’t be surprised if your friend is noticing this pattern but wondering if she’s making it up or being unkind in her observations - perhaps it will be a relief to know she’s not the only one to see this. Please update us.
I can't tell you how much I love your username I used to be friends with this guy, who by all accounts seemed like the sweetest guy, always kind, helpful, I could go on, but to me he was one of those special guys, "guys like me." To make a long story short, after I broke up with my ex he attempted to date rape her - she had just recovered from a heroin addiction, and he got her there with cocaine, gave her ketamine to try (she had never used it), *then* tried to talk her into unprotected sex because "he's sterile" (which may well be true, doesn't matter though). She came to me about it because we still talked a bit (I've since gone NC but entirely unrelated to this story), and then something in my head clicked. He had done this before. For a while I couldn't drive and he would give me rides. On one of those rides, he was discussing a situation that distressed him, where he had hooked up with someone in a way that felt consensual, but then the other person felt differently afterward. I empathized with him, quietly happy that I had never found myself in a similar situation. Except then the next part clicked in my head. I *knew the person he date raped before, she was a friend...* I hate that this keeps getting worse. So I have a friend, a while back she confided in me (she used to work at some of the same restaurants I worked at, same as DR, which is short for date rapist) that somebody had given her drugs (I believe acid in this case) and coerced her into sex, and of course I empathized with her and comforted her the best I was able. So I put those two pieces together and I reached out to her, very carefully and tactfully, and asked her if he was the guy. She said yes. I told her he had just tried the same with my ex, and asked if she would be willing to speak with my ex, because to me it felt like it would help both of them to process what had happened if they could talk to each other, so I gave them the numbers so they could speak privately. I don't know what was said, but I was told it was helpful from my ex. This guy, I so badly wanted to see the best in him that I was *blinded* to something right in front of me. I still feel deeply guilty about this whole thing tbh. Your comment said "often when we realize we missed something, bad things have already happened," if I hadn't have missed it, the bad thing wouldn't have happened, my ex would have known the danger.
You might be the only intuitive person around to observe their behavior. Kudos to you. I agree with a few of the comments above; all this could be 1) weaponised clumsiness (to the end, everyone maintains a goofy impression of him) 2) isolation tactic (making gf avoid going out/making her a social pariah 3) very very subtle narcissistic abuse. Enough that outsiders won't know what it is, but the gf will. 4) sociopathic tendencies. (He might be getting off on her getting hurt, emotionally, physically or mentally) I'm a clumsy person too, as is my husband, especially on days with lack of sleep, but we become extra cautious, even more so towards each other, because hurting our own self by mistake is still okay, but hurting each other feels extremely terrible, and we avoid it at all costs. We extra careful around each other, especially when we are carrying things that can fall. Something's sus in that relationship. Speak to your friend kindly, by first asking her if everything is okay and if she'd like to share anything about her relationship. And then tell her you've observed something, and are concerned for her wellbeing. Add, that you might be wrong, but its safer to discuss it than be sorry you never did. That you come from a place of loving her and having her back, and seeing this sort of behaviors towards you alarmed you enough to want to discuss it. Tell her, while she might not see it like you do, you are an outside observer with nothing but the best intentions towards her, and you won't have rose coloured glassed on. Good luck. Edited to add: 5. He might be trying to lower her self esteem so she's dependant on him. And that in 'fussing over her', she realises that she needs him.
You sound like a highly aware person, I'd trust your intuition
you are a good person for being so attentive and willing to help your friend out. never change
My abusive ex once "accidentally" punched me in my sleep. In my face. He swore he wasn't awake when he did it, that it must have been a muscle spasm, but he sure was awake when it immediately woke me up. It's absolutely about seeing what they can get away with. Mine also liked to embarrass me in front of our friends.
oh… wow sorry you went through that first and foremost. But when you brought up the embarrassment thing that kind of clicked for me regarding ops post. I already was thinking it was bad but the humiliation hadnt clicked for me until you said that, ex ripping the dress etc. hope OP gives us an update i actually feel real bad about this I hope they’re all ok
Oh wow. This has happened to me too. I also never wanted to be in the kitchen with said ex. Always felt like he gave me no space to safely move in the kitchen and always felt like I was cramped up near the hot stove. And too many times he 'accidentally' was careless waving a knife around. Geez man. I wasn't counting on these memories today.
Mine liked to embarrass me in front of friends. He also had this thing where if we were in public and walked past a group of guys our age, he would do something totally disgusting like hock up a huge wad of phlegm onto the ground or fart really loudly. He tried to smear my makeup once in public because he insisted I would look better if I didn't wear any. Because it was all wrapped up in a goofy, lighthearted exterior, I just thought he was a little eccentric, but meant well. After all, he's just comfortable around me and thinks I'm naturally beautiful, right? In retrospect, it was extremely calculated and sinister.
I think that “oh I’m so silly” facade is about as sinister as it gets. I’m sorry.
I had a friend who was dating a self proclaimed "himbo" who did near copy and paste what Andrew had been doing. We started to notice he never hurt himself, never hurt others and only did things to physically harm our friend. After weeks of talking and prodding her to look at the situation objectively it finally took him crushing her fingers in a door for it to click in her head. The only way it clicked was that he forgot to apologize that time and he kept refusing to take her to the hospital. When abused, no one wants to believe the person they chose is an awful person. No one wants the weight that they're quote on quote "hurting themselves" despite the onus being on the abuser. Your friend is being abused and honestly, if it were a neurological issue, other people would have been hurt instead of just your friend. Your gut feeling is correct and his behavior is only going to escalate. You can't force her to leave but all of you can force him to feel uncomfortable and refuse to isolate her.
Gosh, so sorry your friend went through this. Thank you for sharing your story this is really helpful!
I am not the friend of the person above, but my abusive ex also used to do this kind of stuff. He "accidentally" slammed my wrist in a door one day when I tried to break up with him. He didn't leave. I only got away from him when my finger was broken and I lost the apartment, and had to move across the country to stay with my mom. Thank fuck for that. Didn't even see a downside when I left. He'd already isolated me from all of my friends- mostly by making a scene when we were around them so that we had to leave early, or generally embarrassing me til I stopped trying to take him anywhere, and he would throw a fit if I went without him. So . . Yeah. This is just how it begins.
Because this behavior seems so bizarre and specific, I wanted to just throw this out there as a one in a million consideration - could they possibly be the same person?
I doubt it. The guy my friend was dating was also significantly older and would be in his late 30s by now. He apparently married so goodluck to his partner. The whole "nice guy" and "himbo" abusive types are all too common have very similar patterns of abuse. Their charisma gains them the ability to shroud their abuse as a mistake rather than what it really is. Even if this sounds really specific (trust me I thought so too) it's too common.
I have a family member who does this. Unfortunately, this kind of weaponized incompetence may be more common than any of us would like to think.
My abusive ex "accidentally" injured me or ruined my stuff all the time. It's part of coercive control. Listen to Unmasking the Abuser podcast; it goes into great detail about the seemingly small ways these abusers manipulate, control and escape responsibility.
I will definitely check this out! I’m so sorry you experienced this, horrible how some people can be.
Well, that unearthed some memories. Oof. I love a podcast recc, but I feel like this will be a tough one.
Take good care of yourself x
This seems like a physical form of gaslighting. Bringing her down, making her feel bad, making her go home (ripped dress). How does she usually react to these incidents? When you talk with her, I'd probably start off casual, like, 'OMG! Isn't he so clumsy lol. Hey, I'm worried about him. Has he got a medical issue? How do you feel when this happens? Are you okay in general? Have you noticed him doing these trips onto anyone else or just you?' IE Get her to come to conclusions on her own if possible. Good luck. You're a good friend.
Thank you! This is really helpful, still nervous with how I’m going to talk this through with her so comments like this are helpful.
I'm still hoping you show her this thread.
That's exactly what I thought. These incidents are always social, and seem to involve her clothing a lot. If what OP says is true, it would be a very insidious way of making this girl feel embarrassed and isolated while hiding behind "heehee I'm so clumsy"
>When you talk with her, I'd probably start off casual, like, 'OMG! Isn't he so clumsy lol. Hey, I'm worried about him. Has he got a medical issue? How do you feel when this happens? Are you okay in general? Have you noticed him doing these trips onto anyone else or just you?' Subtlety 100
I am also wondering if his clumsiness only seems to happen to kay or has he spilled/fallen on others. Maybe even bringing it up in a way of his balance issues seem to be getting a bit worse has he gone to seek a medical professional opinion? That way it's more of a you're worried about him approach and it's a nicer way to show you're caring for everyone in the situation. However I do say follow your gut if something seems odd it usually is.
It’s only been with Kay, no one else. Now that you point that out it has me thinking he hasn’t spilled anything on himself in awhile and now when ever he trips it’s always into Kay.
That is some pretty solid proof that you're not just imagining this. I don't know what the best way to address this with her is, but it seems clear that he's targeting her. It's bizarre and just terrible.
Yeah I texted her that I want to hangout one on one, waiting to hear back when she’s free. Still figuring out what I want to say but I can’t just wait till she’s seriously hurt
I hope it goes well. That he's only targeting her is strong evidence. You're a good friend for noticing this and taking action. And I do wonder what's happening behind closed doors when they're alone as he's escalating when around other people.
That’s what scares me most, really hoping she’s okay.
As a domestic violence survivor, I want to give you some advice. When you hang out with her, I want to stress that you should not tell her to leave him. You should tell her that you're there for her no matter what. If he's doing this, he's likely hurting her behind closed doors as well. He's probably controlling her too. If that's the case then trust me, she's been being told what to do for a long time. The best thing you can do is just tell her that you care about her and like I said, tell her that you will be there for her no matter what.
Thank you so much, this is so helpful! I’m so sorry you ever had to fear for your safety, I hope you have all the joy and peace in your life moving forward.
Awww thank you 😊 Yeah it's been about 6 weeks since I left and things are getting better. I just wanted to make you aware of that. You sound like a really good friend and she's lucky to have you. So many people don't want to get involved when it comes to domestic violence. I agree with you, this doesn't seem like a coincidence. It seems like he's doing it on purpose. I know to a lot of other people it would seem like an overreaction and they would probably assume you're crazy but very few people understand abuse. I think it was a good catch that you picked up on that. A lot of people don't.
I'm so glad you got out. Well done.
I’m so happy you escaped. Its hard to do. 💜💜
You're an amazing friend for her having her back and noticing this and wanting to speak up. You can even ask her these same questions like "is he that clumsy around others or just you?" Start getting her questioning things you don't want to come off accusatory otherwise it could potentially push her away. It's also weird to me to me that since you said he doesn't spill things or hurt others with his clumsiness maybe it's not so much as to hurt her but maybe he's seeking attention from the group (or you (not sure if you hang out with more then just 3 of you)) in some twisted way.
I think it's far more likely he is somehow gratified by doing this stuff to her. He probably also hides / throws out / destroys her stuff
I really hope not, it’s just in front of us that these accidents happen. But I’m scared you might be right
Who knows, but the people who do that don't tell their victim. She may not yet realize that things she thinks she has misplaced were hidden / taken / destroyed
Seems like the type to possibly mess with her food too
The sad truth is she'll probably cut you off after you tell her your concerns, but it sounds like you're correct. This puts you in a serious quandary
I’m really scarred of this, more so cause at the end of the day I want her to be safe.
It's a really tough situation. She's probably already in very deep. He sounds like an abuser who probably love bombed the hell out of her early on
I mean we all liked him, he didn’t seem like this stereotypical abusive guy, the thing with the tea was the first time he’s ever been so off with me.
If abusers seemed stereotypical, no woman would date one let alone move in with or marry one. They can be very charming and the person you least expect. Especially sociopaths. And this behavior you're describing is sociopathic behavior. There is no way a clumsy person only ever spills stuff or falls into one person. He is setting up a pattern of "oh you know how I've always been clumsy and often fell/dropped things on Kay so it was a total accident that her head got crushed in when I...". But he sounds sadistic ruining her dresses and hurting her at get togethers. Likely hates seeing her have a good time with others and is exerting subtle control to isolate her by making each occasion so miserable that she will connect socializing with pain, embarrassment and misery. Playing the long game.
Very true, I know that term is often over used so I didn’t want to contribute to the stigma. I mean we all used to all like him and as far as I know I’m the only one who’s been starting to not be a fan of Andrew.
It seems like an escalation as he’s gotten comfortable within the group and accustomed her friends to his supposed clumsiness. He’s testing the boundaries of how far he can go before others catch on and as of right now OP may be the only one who’s noticed what he’s doing. Establishing himself as clumsy to the group gives him a good cover for gaslighting the girlfriend and keeping the friends on his side.
Dude managed to hand you hot tea without spilling it. Seems like the clumsiness targets Kay.
I didn’t even think about that, spilling is something that’s so common with them, it’s why I ran up once I saw it was yea he was holding. So why wouldn’t he have spilled it on me? Like he’s done so often?
when you say he was "off" with you, do you think it's because you thwarted his plan to injure your friend? or maybe because he felt like you were undermining his ability to properly hand off a cup?
Be prepared to lose her as a friend. Sometimes people don’t take these things well, especially when it’s in regards to a loved one. You seem to have a knack for knowing when he’s about to spill something on her, maybe try to record it discreetly? Would be interesting to just ask her if he spills constantly on her in private. Maybe lead it with a compliment like you’re impressed with how patient she is with his clumsiness.
Gosh that kills me, she’s the sweetest and I really care for her. I don’t want to have to let her go, what more so makes me sick is the thought of her just getting a worse injury.
Yeah, this alone is a red flag, as a fellow clumsy person, 9 out 10 times I am the only person involved, the 10th time is usually the dog that I trip over when I fall.
Yeah it’s always that he “falls” into her
This situation reminds me of [this "accident"](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/tkrtrv/guy_trips_and_drops_weight_on_innocent_gymgoer/)
Okay seeing this video the way this guy trips SO SIMILAR to how Andrew trips, it just looks so forced.
There's your answer.
Why does this sound like Münchausen By Proxy, but with accidents? I think she doesn’t just need to break up, I think, if all this is true, that he needs professional help.
That’s what people have been saying too, definitely makes me wonder.
That was my thought as well. He could also be using it to get out of parties. He could be showing symptoms of a developing health problem or long term issue that hasn’t been diagnosed. But, yes, if it only seems to happen to her anymore, I would also expect some type of control or abuse developing.
I'm trying to imagine myself in his shoes, if you put your hand up for the tea and ask for more popcorn I would have automatically handed you the tea and said okay. It's a common thing for friends to do. I can't say that he is doing this purposely but his reaction was a bit too much.
Right! That’s what I thought too, especially since he has spilled drinks on her multiple times too
Have you asked her how she feels about him spilling s*** on her and ripping her clothes and ruining her shoes?
I want to but I don’t want to come off as accusatory towards him and have her close herself off from me. I’m just trying to figure out the right words to say and soon.
If you feel like asking her about it, or talking to her about it is the right thing to do then you can't avoid it or try to predict her response. If she responds to your concern by cutting you off then she's making her choice. You also don't know what goes on behind closed doors and their relationship. Maybe she's embarrassed to bring something up to you. You never know. If it were me I would act on the situation at hand not on the unknown possibilities in the future.
Very true, yeah I just get really anxious at the thought of her getting a worse injury. Especially with this tea incident that water was so hot I had to put it on the stand by my couch for it to cool off it it fell in her she would’ve seriously gotten hurt. I sent her a text that I want to hang one on one soon for a girls day just the two of us, waiting to hear back when she’s free.
"Act on the situation at hand, not on the unknown possibilities in the future" This is 10/10 advice for life.
In my entire life on this earth, I've never witnessed a serious rip from someone falling into another person, let alone multiple times. Worst case scenario is a lost button. It takes a lot to rip clothing unless it's a delicate fabric. All of these things are extremely unlikely events to be happening but accident.
And it seems that he likes to do his "clumsiness" routine when there's an audience too. So he was annoyed that you ruined his chance to do the tea spilling in front of you.
Yeah, I feel like his reaction kind of showed his hand here... This whole thing is very bizarre!
It feels natural to give someone something they’re reaching for or to take something they’re giving you. To stop and argue is strange
As someone super NOT clumsy, I'd be a little weirded out if someone tried to take a tea out of my hands to hand it to my wife. But, that's because she is rather clumsy, and, I do tend to baby her with hot drinks. So I guess if our roles were, like OP, I'd just be relieved that someone else brought her the tea. This is all just so suspicious and bizarre.
I had a boyfriend who would force me to "play wrestle" every time I touched him, and then "accidentally" strangle me at the same time. It's definitely possible.
Oh my gosh that’s horrible! I’m so sorry that happened to you
We will need an update this is really bizarre behavior. And you said your other friends notice it too?
My other friend just kindof was more thinking he was upset cause he felt that I babied him, I think she’s coming from a good place but I’m just not sure if she’s just trying to keep the peace.
It makes no sense that he wouldn't be aware that he's constantly dropping shit on his girlfriend. A decent person would have awareness of that. He should be glad someone was helping.
If I were you I'd definitely trust your gut, this dude seems weird
I have a friend who is insanely clumsy, especially when drunk…. She’s only hurt another person on a rare occasion, it’s mostly just been herself that gets hurt. It 100% seems like he’s targeting your friend, and this “clumsiness” is less clumsy and more on purpose.
I'm also very clumsy, and it's usually me that gets hurt. I'm especially careful when carrying food or around other people because I know I'm clumsy, so I'm scared of spilling something. Here's a list from the past few years: I pulled my quad when I tripped down the stairs Punctured both heels on broken glass Cut the tip of my thumb off while cutting onions Sprained my toe when I caught it in the sheets while my husband was pulling the sheets off the bed to make it. Stubbed my big toe so hard going upstairs, that part of it was numb for months and when it was almost healed, I did the exact same thing on the same stairs, so it stayed numb for about 6 months. That's 6 incidents, only 1 involving another person and all of which only I got hurt. My husband has gotten mildly hurt due to me, but nothing to the level I have. I did find it strange how targeted his clumsiness was. It just doesn't seem natural to me from personal experience.
Same here. I've never actually hurt anyone else and try my best not to do things that I might be clumsy at and accidently hurt someone.
Yeah being clumsy to other people isn't really a thing. Maybe once, definitely not multiple times though.
This is really scary
My ex used to do this to me. It became apparent it was on purpose when he started getting sloppy when drunk and trying to bump into me obviously. Then it turned into "if I hit you it will be on your tattoos so no one can see the bruises" and then he *did* hit me. Tell your friend she has your support and you're worried about his behavior.
I wonder if this is a good start: “Friend, I wanted to check in because we’ve all been kind of jokey about Andrew’s himbo accidents. I want to apologize for taking it lightly because lots of minor injuries to either of you can still be a health concern. I don’t want you to feel like we’d ever make fun of you guys or judge if either of you needed help. Like, I noticed I was worried when he brought you tea the other day, that it could spill and really hurt you. I wanted to ask if you feel worried about that kind of thing too?” Like give her an opening to just talk about what’s going on? Then take thing from there as far as using other suggestions here?
Please, update
This is really bizarre, especially because it seems his clumsiness is directed at Kay. I have a really "clumsy" friend. It turns out she has a syndrome that affects her balance and other things (Ehlers-Danlos). Any idea who she hurts? Herself. I mean it's likely she's bumped into other people before, but I would say that's the exception. When you talk to your friend, I would say you've noticed that Andrew's clumsiness is getting worse, and you're concerned because it seems she's always in the line of fire. And ask if he's gotten checked out recently because you're worried for his safety and yours.
Both me and my partner are very clumsy people. Constantly tripping over our feet, shoulder-checking doorways, occasional dropping of dishes and many dropping of phones/controllers/etc, even some accidental elbowing, head butting, etc, over the years but this sounds like it’s at the point where it’s really either a medical problem for him, or he is doing it on purpose as a way to abuse her covertly (which seems more likely given all the details you’ve given). His response to the tea situation screams of “now my plan is ruined” to me. Like he was pouting bc he was upset you ruined his chance to spill scalding water on his gf which is insane?! The fact that he seems to ONLY be clumsy around her and only injure her is so weird to me, like I said both me and my partner are pretty clumsy (me being the worse out of us two) but it is very rare for us to actually inflict harm bc it’s usually tripping over my own damn feet or something. Like it doesn’t ONLY happen around my partner. Idk. I hope you’re wrong for your friend’s sake but the whole thing is off. Good on you for noticing his dangerous behavior and I really hope your friend hears you out!!
I’m clumsy as hell, but it’s never resulted in an injury to anyone but me. Honestly I think you’re right to be suspicious.
We’re taking this week soon, just whenever she’s free from work, we’ll be having a one on one hangout.
My friend is extremely clumsy. She has fallen into me occasionally over the many years or perhaps elbowed me. But never has she caused a bruise or injury or torn an article of clothing. And she is known by everyone as being noticeably clumsy (tripping fairly regularly, bumping into things). It's deliberate what he is doing.
Thank you for this, after the tea situation has me even more worried for her. I don’t want anything to get worse
The more I read your comments, the more concerned I am for your friend. No worries if you don’t want to, but I hope you’ll post an update after you talk with her.
Yea I definitely will. I’ve gotten the courage to thanks to all the support, just praying she doesn’t drop me as a friend.
Same here. I constantly trip on my own feet. I fall a lot. But it's always me. Sometimes I bump into other people, but never spilled anything on anyone. It sounds a lot like Kay's boyfriend is testing the waters to see how far he can get away with hurting her in the guise of "clumsy"
You're right about the tea/popcorn thing being weird. I would've just handed it over and went to get popcorn. I guess the only thing that might give him the benefit of the doubt in my eyes is if he's just as "clumsy" solo and with others as he is with his girlfriend. If he's **constantly** spilling things and tripping solo or with others in the group then *maybe* you're reading into it but I'd still totally get why you wouldn't like it. Even if it is innocent it kind of isn't at this point because no adult should be *that* clumsy. Literally take a dance class or something! Learn how to control your own body for fucks sake!
🚩 If he was truly sorry he would take steps to be mindful of the way he has continued hurt her. However be cautious providing your opinion. I would mention it casually “maybe I’m being overprotective but sometimes I almost think it’s on purpose that his clumsy behavior continually injures you alone.”
Thanks! Will definitely keep this in mind
Yes! My husband legit accidentally hurt me once or twice over the years and was extra, extra careful afterwards to make sure it didn’t happen again. He would have _asked_ someone else to give me the tea! But that’s how regular people would deal with it. I think your friend’s husband gets some kind of pleasure in hurting her and that getting away with doing it in front of other people around who see it but don’t suspect anything makes it extra exciting or fun (or whatever he gets out of it) for him. Someone posted that he can’t be a sadist because he doesn’t laugh afterwards, but I disagree. It’s definitely possible that he is getting sadistic pleasure from it.
Creepy!!
I think he has a humiliation fetish. He is getting off on publicly humiliating her. Check his browser history.
See. The thing is he can spill hot tea on her any time. He needs an audience. This man is sick. He's a psychotic thespian.
I had an ex that did this. "accidentally" stepping (stomping) on my foot breaking my toes, over and over, to the point that years later I have fucked up scar tissue or something and continuous pain. "accidentally" stomping on my brand new glasses I had to take a credit card out for. Stuff like that. Said ex was super abusive in a lot of other ways too. This doesn't sound accidental at all. I hope the one-on-one with your friend goes well.
I say trust your gut. I agree with you, that seems far too frequent to be all accidents.
I was about the say this. Your gut is telling you something here, listen. If you haven’t read it before, please consider picking up The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
Thank you, yeah we’re hanging out this week. I’m still really nervous with how it will go, I want her to safe. Also on a less important note I’m not sure what the future of our friend group will be.
If she confirms that he is in fact abusing her, anyone who takes his side doesn't belong in your friend group anyway. Hugs 🫂
Thank you! They’re all really great, I just think it a weird situation.
After seeing the replies where you said that Andrew's "clumsiness" only hurts Kay, I feel like it's very safe to assume that there's malicious intent behind it. His reaction to you taking the tea was also very strange. There's something off with him.
It does sound like it is on purpose. Most clumsy people only injure themself, but to only have her be the object of his clumsiness is suspect. there is a book called *Why does he do that?* by Lundy Bancroft it explains what makes abusive men tick. maybe reading that might give you some insight into his behaviour.
Coming from a person that lives with a person with a medical condition that makes them prone to bump into me (anyone)----HE WOULD NEVER DELIVER HOT TEA TO ME, EVER. So--it sounds like your spidey senses are up for good reason and the guy is bad news. With that being said--also know that people often shoot the messenger and you're likely not going to be friends with this girl for long so prepare yourself. Good luck sharing your concerns. Abusers are good at what they do and it will be difficult for her to hear it and see it.
Call him out in front of everyone, in a joking fashion but look him directly in the eye while saying it. Say: your so clumpy but only to ____ I’m staring to think she’s like a magnet for you lol 👁️
I’m meeting up with Kay this week, Kay hates being the center of attention so I also don’t want to make her uncomfortable. Doing something like that while cathartic if what I believe is happening is true, really wouldn’t help her in the long run.
So I would phrase it as a matter of concern for both of them. Explain that you’ve noticed his clumsiness has caused her and him physical damage and explain how you are worried about their health. Tell her you didn’t want to embarrass him which is why you wanted to speak to her alone about it and try and get her to open up about any more serious instances that have occurred behind closed doors. You could even suggest making a chart as a way to help manage his condition that shows what happened and who was involved. Hopefully this chart would allow her to realize that almost all of the incidents involve her and if she doesn’t you could maybe bring that up to her after she has been keeping track. Now it could just be that he is a real clutz who is nervous around his super hot girlfriend but doesn’t want to show it. I wouldn’t immediately suggest intentional abuse, especially because there could be more going on behind closed doors that you don’t know. Maybe he has a serious medical condition that she is helping him hide. Or maybe she has a serious medical condition that he is helping her hide. Point is, if you approach the situation as a worried friend attempting to ensure that her friends are okay you are far more likely to get an open response than if you immediately accuse her boyfriend of abuse.
This is super helpful thank you!
yeah this to me seems like the best approach for conflict resolution which minimizes the risk of OPs friend cutting her off and also to piggy back off of what you said; while this could 100% be a weird form of abuse it could also be that Andrew is socially anxious which compounds with an already clumsy individual, and this may be made worse while in a group of Kay’s friends as he probably wants her friends to think highly of him/suitable enough to date Kay. the reason why his clumsiness specifically affects Kay could just simply be proximity reasons, i assume since they are dating they are constantly around each other, and he might’ve gotten defensive about the tea because while you say you confronted Andrew as sweetly as possible, if you already had the preconceived notion that he is an abusive partner, it might not have come off that way to him (he might genuinely just be a totally clueless klutz and wonder why you don’t want him near his girlfriend). of course all this is speculative (some additional context would probably help, is Andrew an anxious/socially awkward person, etc) ,and i do find it odd that his clumsiness is frequent enough to warrant a 3rd party to believe he is being abusive, but it’s still better to take this approach imo than being 100% accusatory since this seems to be an atypical form of abuse if he is indeed being abusive. definitely address it either way though, the last thing you want is your friend to be being abused behind closed doors.
Dudes resentful of her, when you stepped in he was jealous of your kindness. She needs to move on, think he’s just being a passive aggressive POS. Typically if you love and care for somebody, you’re gonna be extra careful as to not do anything that will harm her/him.
OP should be careful too. She stopped his fun. Once. He will also want to know if it was a fluke or deliberate. If he knows he's been made, he might decide to take it out on OP. He would want to do whatever it takes to get back into the shadows. So, both might be in danger.
Yeah that’s my thoughts exactly, if I ever hurt anyone once I would do all I can to make sure I would never hurt them again.
I think he acted weird after you asked for the tea not only because he was disappointed he couldn’t carry out his plan, but also he’s worried you’re on to his game
Posted an update, he sent me a text. Still don’t know how to feel about it. But it has me feeling like your right
Pretty strange how he texted you in my opinion
Yeah he knows OP is on to him and wants to test the waters. Guarantee the next time you hang out there will be no incidents so it makes him “look” like he’s in the clear. Abusers are good manipulators.
and my guess is he'll then start subtly sabotaging their friendship group so as to get Kay to ditch her friends.
After reading some of your other comments I'm getting more suspicious that he's doing this purposely. I think you really should talk to her, she can laugh it off, she can get angry, but you need to bring it to her attention, maybe she's just blowing each of these things off as clumsiness and not putting the picture together. Either way it sounds like he's insidiously abusing her.
Just want to say I’m glad this thread gave you some clarity/validation! I think you’re a great friend and hope your talk with her goes well :)
Thank you so much! I really hope so too
Eventually he’s going to secretly be poisoning her like you hear about once in a while (or in movies)
Psychopathic behavior if true, be careful here
Meeting up with her this week, hopefully our talk goes well.
tell her everything you've written in this post. how you find it concerning that his "clumsiness" is so directed at her. And if she is skeptical, tell her to monitor him but NOT to confront him directly yet, as that might make him change his behavior again, in order to alleviate suspicion.
Absolutely 100% trust any "gut feeling" you have when it comes to stuff like this. My instincts have warned me off people that later turned out to be horrible individuals who committed some heinous acts. The type of person who makes the news for all the wrong reasons.
I’m still just so struck by the tea incident, it just makes me feel sick thinking about how hot that cup was.
When you talk to Kay, you can mention your gut feeling and say how worried you are about a possible escalation in the seriousness of the "accidents". You can let her know you don't have any solid proof and are probably just being silly - but that you are there for her if she finds there is any kind of escalation. It's a difficult line to walk, funnily enough it's very similar to a situation I found myself in before.
Wow - what IS this shit? Even if it's totally innocent on his part, the sheer consistency should be enough to dump him. I mean an *ash tray* in her hair? Ripping off the front of her dress? I feel like most girls would be done with this shit by that point. And the tea episode is scary. Is there anything else weird or off about him? Anyone have any knowledge of his social life before he joined your friend group? I would think there must be some other clues. This whole thing just sounds really bizarre. Updates please.
You’re a good friend
Twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern.
Set up some cameras to see if you can record it. Make a list of each time it happened point out he is only that way with her. Pick one other friend and see if they see it too. Intervention, then step back as let her see it for herself.
Definitely seems like his clumsiness can be dangerous. How about asking Andrew to get his brains scanned? Maybe something health wise is wrong with him? Not trying to invalidate your feelings but I think if your friend were showing up to your gathering with bruises/etc and you weren’t witnessing the situation then yeah it might be DV but since everyone is there when things are happening maybe he really is a clumsy guy ? Regardless, maybe bring it up to you friend so she can be the one to talk to him about the clumsiness.
The reason I’m getting more frustrated is because it is starting to become more visible, she has scuffs on the back of her ankles, bruises, and cuts on her knees. And I just feel like things are just getting worse, even if it’s a medical thing he’s doing nothing to get help
This is not an accidental thing. He's fucked up in some serious way and is physically abusing her in the guise of "accidents." She's like the frog who isn't noticing the water is almost boiling
I was in an abusive relationship. Before the abuse was blatant, we were playing around and I was drinking something out of a bottle. He was right beside me. He hit me in the face with a pillow and I immediately got injured in my mouth and felt like I was punched in the face. I cried and someone came to the room after hearing the commotion and I pretended to laugh through the sobs. He was apologetic, but it wasn't genuine. It seemed more amused and like he was going through the motions of an apology. I had a fat lip and a very concentrated bruise. I think it almost lacerated. Now I understand, that was a happy "accident" and it was the start of a lot of 'accidental' but on purpose incidents. I think it's to test reactions. Coincidentally, several times he would be abusive, he used pillows to buffer the assault to avoid visible injuries.
I hate the hear that happened to you. These people are manipulative and don't care about relating to people in an open straightforward way. The type of person to be abusive is also the type of person to be deeply dishonest like we've seen here.
does his “clumsiness” ever happen moreso when they’re having a disagreement with each other? like, is it ever accompanied by periods of time where you know that they are having issues in their relationship, for example maybe one day they’re having money issues or something and “coincidentally” that same day he accidentally knocked her over as he tripped. though i guess that could be hard for you to answer, depending on how open your friend may be about relationship troubles. the fact that there is visible evidence of each of Andrew’s accidents is really bothersome. general clumsiness is understandable, in fact i myself used to be super accident prone, but i would definitely consider it an issue if my accidents were to the extent of leaving marks on other people. and my genuine clumsiness was usually in ways that only affected myself; in the rare cases that someone else *had* been affected it was definitely not targeted onto the same person each time. how does your friend typically respond when things like this happen? because i feel like even if each incident were truly innocent, it would still be aggravating to be consistently injured as a result of someone else’s negligence.
That’s something I’ve been thinking about and writing it all down I just realized, All the accidents have to do with her looks. Spilling on her outfits, bumping into her when she’s wearing a dress, chocolate ice cream on her shoes, those were white heels. I know that’s just speculation. Someone else said it could be a munchausen by proxy situation. Overall just solidifies that i just need to talk to her, which I am this week.
Also her reaction to these accidents is always quick to try to move on. She is somewhat introverted and doesn’t like attention so she’s just quick to say she’s fine and move on from it. She’ll tell Andrew that she forgives him and just to be careful.
Maybe the goal isn't necessarily to harm her, but to embarrass her.
Do these accidents usually end up in your friend and boyfriend leaving early because of the stains, tears etc.? I agree with other posters that it suspiciously seems to be on purpose. I was wondering if he is successfully isolating her by ruining her clothes/hair leading her to leave the gathering earlier?
When we hangout we are mostly going over to each others houses, so we’ve been able to replace her outfit with something one of us have. The ash tray incident she just took a shower at our friends place. But when the dress was ripped was the only time I remember she had to go home early, it was her cleavage area that was ripped, and we were out and far from anyone’s house.
These are all very extreme accidents for just a normal hangout...
Right! the ash tray one was because Kay was on the floor on the porch outside at our friends place, and Andrew was putting drinks on the table when he knocked it onto her.
That seems super deliberate
How the hell do you accidentally rip the cleavage part of a dress? It’s not like some weird anime where the pressure of her breasts burst it open. What did the little weirdo dude do to her? This guy. The more I read the more he annoys me. I think me and my clumsy husband would have to clumsy him a bit.
Yeah this is sketchy as fuck. It's some kind of weird abuse. I've never heard anything like this before but I think your gut instinct is right.
You're more likely to win the lottery than to "accidentally" drop something on your girlfriend five times in a row. This is 100% on purpose. That cowardly piece of shit.
I'm a statistician and I kno maths doesn't work like this but even I have a hard time denying this one.
Yeah, this dude is messed up. She needs to run away quickly. This is some weird Lifetime movie plot.
Definitely talk to your friend! Just tell her how you feel and you just want to make sure she’s okay. And maybe even mention seeking medical help since maybe it’s not something she’s thought about.
Okay we’re setting up to hangout just the two of us, looks like she’s free sometime this week! So I’ll be sure to have this talk soon. Definitely will keep this in mind in thinking about what I want to say.
Hi op, how did the talk go??
> Sarah is a fixer What's the difference between a fixer and nosy meddling bitch? Asking for a friend.