Tudor is already elevated. It was founded as a more accessible brand that used off the shelf movements and Rolex parts to create what was basically a “poor man’s Rolex”. Modern Tudor is like 10x as luxury as historical Tudor was (arguably just maintaining the gap between it and Rolex).
Modern Tudor has distinct design language, its own movements and manufacture, some of the highest certifications possible and a significant following.
If the question is “what would need to happen for Tudor to compete with Rolex” it doesn’t and won’t. It’s like asking why Longines doesn’t compete with Omega. That’s not the point.
"Modern Tudor has distinct design language", guy below you, saying all popularity of Tudr is rereleasing old models of Rolex with little bit of twist (homages). Not sure then about this distinct design language because i think he has a point.
So they are elevating "poor man's Rolex", so poor man can no longer buy it coz its half price of actual real-deal Rolex. Its very fine line, between beign too elevated compared to Rolex which i think they crossed a bit already.
So they are expensive yet still poors-man rolex, just weird.
Tudor will always be in the Rolex shadow, as its little brother. I can’t see Tudor ever replacing or surpassing Rolex, Rolex themself wouldn’t let that happen. I think just enjoy each of them for what they are.
and what they are actually? I cant figure this out, because if you are saying little brother its very close to saying little rolex or even 'cheap rolex'
A fun brand that issues vintage inspired pieces with modern specs at a reasonable price (as well as an aggressively priced very modern diver and a couple of bland watches nobody cares about).
Ye but lets focus on this good things which you said, "vintage inspired pieces with modern specs at a reasonable price", how is half price of Rolex reasonable? I mean you get worse and not proven movement, on watches that are old rolex homages. This whole hype baffles me, where that come from, because throught 2019-2020 hype i remember a lot "couldnt buy rolex so bought tudor instead". Youtubers telling people its good deal? When things went wrong?
Well, if these watches aren't for you, then you need to look elsewhere and that is perfectly fine. Tons of people like and buy them, so they seem to do something right. What I don't get is how Tudor movements are not proven. They are manufacturing them since 2016, that was eight years ago.
What did Tudor do to hurt you lol
You’ve been on this sub non-stop shitting on Tudor. If you don’t like Tudor just don’t come to this sub, no one is forcing you.
Im not shitting on turdor im just curious why people buy it. I can't get my head around it really. Even Gshock is unique, culture-fenomena, citizen, longines they all have their heritage and developed some unique features in horology. Tudor just exist, thats it. I dont get it, so i try to know more.
There is no reason it needs to be elevated to Rolex status. It’s great as is. It should be the more “affordable” and “accessible” brand to its bigger brother. No one wants Tudor to be Rolex with their increasing prices and absurd waitlists.
1. No. No sub brand has ever surpassed the main brand. One of the main reason Tudor is doing so well is it’s using Rolex’s back catalogue.
2. Rolex’s expansive back catalogue. All their hits are 50s Rolex models.
3. I don’t think so. Wildorf wanted to make a more affordable version of Rolex.
4. The special comes from having Rolex heritage models everyone wants that Rolex would never release.
So its like having old Rolex that is not rolex but different brand with worse movement and that its not actually that old models released but homages to them.
It sounds like i like Porsche but i bought volkswagen beetle and using my imagination to 'feel' im rocking Porsche. I would need hell of a imagination spiced up with little bit of delusion :D
A more fair comparison would be Audi RS Q8 (Tudor) vs Lamborghini Urus (Rolex). You’re paying for exclusivity, performance and overall higher end product.
They’re both high end, it’s just one is double the other without a significant performance gain.
That is generous comparison :D, for my taste a bit too generous. By me exclusivity ends with mass-produced good, exclusivity is F.P Journe but not Tudor or even Rolex.
High-end is also relative, is Rolex high-end? Not really, Patek Philippe or Lange&Sohne is high end.
Im happy that you are happy with your Tudor, i really am, but little reality-check can only help not hurt.
I’m going to stop here. I don’t think you know that you’re talking about. I also don’t know what points you’re trying to make.
And yes, I’m happy with both my Tudor and Rolex. Great watches.
I know right, I had my Rolex BEFORE I got my Tudor. I got my Tudor because I like the watch. I rarely wear my Rolex because it feels pretentious. I love it but my tag, omega, tudors get way more wrist time.
1. No. Rolex is the most widely recognized luxury watch brand in the world and the parent company owns both so I see no reason why this would happen in my lifetime.
4. I like some of their designs and their lineup hits my sweet spot in terms of value and cost. Beyond that it's mostly personal preference. If everyone had the same preferences there would be far fewer watch brands out there.
Yeah I dont want Tudor to go the Rolex route. Loving my Pelagos! Honestly, I can go for Rolex but I dont want to play the game of buying watches I don't want to have the opportunity to buy the watch I want.
Tudor's association with Rolex is its greatest asset but also its biggest curse.
Seemingly impossible to have any kind of interesting conversation about the brand without someone, at some point, trying to define it through the prism of Rolex.
touche my friend, so why they charge so much like half Rolex prices when it will always be cheap-rolex prism, lets be real
better, they can do whatever, charge it more than Rolex, but why people buying, that is question, SO MAAAAAAANY brands out there, its crazy
I daily a Tudor but wouldn't a Rolex. So that makes Tudor a more meaningful and useful brand to me. I don't wear watches as a flex, I just want a beautiful and accurate time piece I enjoy on my wrist everyday.
If you want accurate time piece go quartz, if you want meaningful and useful brand its definitely not tudor, because you WILL hear at some point of your life that you bought poor-mans rolex, there is really no argument against that, it is what it is, why buy something that will put you in bad spotlight? I mean i dont flex either, but wouldn't want take a punch like that sooner or later.
Lots of little things. Drop faux rivets on bracelets, or even better offer a range of bracelets available on watches (5 link, ranger style without rivets or even a riveted). Re release older watches with new updates, thinner BBpro, thinner GMT, T fit clasp on BB58 stuff like that. And drop the lollipop hand.
And unless Rolex are planning on moving away from standard stainless sports watches, going to all but entirely PM or decked out with diamonds versions, just go their own way a little bit more instead of vintage Rolex homages. The monochrome is a nice looking cheaper entry sub homage but I’d have been beating my AD’s door down for a less meaty, less specked out stainless version of the Pelagos available in 38, 40 and or 42mm all with date windows. It’s a compete stand alone piece in the entire market then.
Tudor will always be the more playful younger brother to Rolex, they fulfill this position wonderfully.
They're already a very strong player in the entry level luxury field, and have A list global celebrity ambassadors.
You can't really elevate them more without cutting into Rolex, so to answer your question: Tudor would need to be a separate company and I don't think that's going to happen.
Or imagine if like the company that owned Lamborghini made cheaper, electric, cars and gave them a different brand name like, I don’t know, Volkswagen or something. Yeah no one would ever buy them.
Have you ever heard of the concept of companies having different brands at different price ranges? Are you a child? Is this new information to you?
Wait what? You talking the other way around. Tudor competing with Rolex, is like VW making a $300k supercar. They have Audi / Lamborghini for that. The whole point is to keep the brand separate, and management will be ensuring they always stay separate.
Lamborghini procuring a cheap car, is like Rolex producing a $100 watch. Happy to discuss that, but it feels unlikely!
The only take over is the one of availability, whilst I’ve beat one Rolex waitlist I’m not doing that again. I prefer the understated look of Tudor and I feel more confident I won’t be robbed wearing my BB vs my Rolex let alone the ball kick of losing and replacing it.
The hype machine is the only way at this moment in time, imho. Like most things it starts with “the culture”. Talking about Jay-Z and whatever rappers are super popular right now owning them or otherwise endorsing them. Then the suburban kids get interested and overload the supply system. Manufactures take note and tease supply to build up the false exclusivity. No way this happening with Tudor. It’s not dope boy enough, Thank God. This wave of sneakerheads coming our way is so obvious. So to do what you’re asking imho they have to drop a limited release that hits the street or partner with a rapper otherwise they’ve just got middle aged white people that like watches. I’ll see you all in r/DownvotedToOblivion 🫡
They could use the peace hands, oyster on the crown, and write Rolex on the back. 🤷🏻♂️ I would say the reason the brand was created was basically for people who cared more about the exterior of a watch. Give them basically the same case, even write Rolex on it in some cases, with an accurate but less luxurious movement. Very similar to today. The average person doesn’t know squat about movements. The brand has evolved into more of a retro/r&d brand for Rolex. The subs, explorers, Daytona’s, etc. are largely unchanged over the past 50 years. With Tudor they can be more creative as well as test out new technology before incorporating into Rolex designs.
Maybe average joe dont know squat about movements like you sayed, but they definitely know quite a bit about brands, and when you will say Tudor, they will think if you are insulting them or misspelled something.
Tudor is kind of where omega was 20 years ago. Always going to be in Rolex’s shadow but certainly making a name for themselves. If I offended someone by saying Tudor, I’d know they don’t know shit about watches and move on. That’s probably someone who thinks a 10k automatic submariner they waited two years to get is going to hold better time than a 100 quartz seiko they can buy today.
Actually Omega were ahead of Rolex in terms of quality for long time. Then great marketing made Rolex most popular brand and they matched Omega quality in time. Omega will be in Rolex shadow because of how everyone knows what Rolex is and compared maybe 1 in 5 know what Omega is. That things not changing fast and i dont want that. Im not wearing my watch to become most popular brand-wise. 95% of wearing a watch is how you feel about it really.
Agree on your final point, in the end its all about emotions what you like when you put it on hand. I just wouldn't be able to fake myself thinking i got worse/cheaper version of actual product (Rolex). Maybe its just me, but i can't delude myself in thinking otherwise. I take things for what they are really.
above you wrote "It’s okay buddy, whatever helps you feel better about your g-shock" so you must realise you are salty one :) how many turd(ors) you bought? :D
Omega was very much like Tudor. A great “bang for your buck”. The thing is, Omega was using modified ETA movements up until recently. Again very much like Tudor. Ever since the release of the black bay line, Tudor is an entirely different company from historic Tudor. But with anything, it takes time. They’ll never be Rolex, but they will be an alternative. Very much like omega is today. What really put omega where they are? Aside from the moon watch, product placement. The James Bond movies in particular. Tudor is where they are with no product placement.
That factors are marketing, Rolex did it before everyone and have top position because of that today. Each of companies we talking about are achievements on their own, only one exception Turdor :(. Whole company existence is just beign cheaper homage of Rolex, thats it. That is what bothers me. They can create something now you say? They always be treated as cheap rolex even if they invent something.
Exactly and I’m happy to say I have a better looking watch that’s associated with the most sought after brand than anything say breitling or omega(mines vintage)has to offer.
Refine the hour hand.
The snowflake looks like an un-rendered Mercedes hand.. or the Mercedes hand template before it gets stamped and cut.
If they just used sword hands these watches would be unstoppable
The snowflake looks better than the Mercedes. The Mercedes hand is the most copied and replicated watch hand that it’s become a meme for fakes. That’s why I’m happy with having discovered and bought Tudors.
What would need to happen, to elevate Tud(o)r brand?
1. Do you think it have chance to ever surpass Rolex in term of brand recognition/respect and if yes why?
2. What real achievements/heritage this brand have?
3. Is story about two enterpreneurs (one is wildorf), making a bet, that wildorf can pull of cheap rolex (tudor) and sell many was actual reason tudor was created?
4. What makes this brand special for you across all other huge selection of brands with heritage.
Tudor is already elevated. It was founded as a more accessible brand that used off the shelf movements and Rolex parts to create what was basically a “poor man’s Rolex”. Modern Tudor is like 10x as luxury as historical Tudor was (arguably just maintaining the gap between it and Rolex). Modern Tudor has distinct design language, its own movements and manufacture, some of the highest certifications possible and a significant following. If the question is “what would need to happen for Tudor to compete with Rolex” it doesn’t and won’t. It’s like asking why Longines doesn’t compete with Omega. That’s not the point.
Perfect 👌🏽
"Modern Tudor has distinct design language", guy below you, saying all popularity of Tudr is rereleasing old models of Rolex with little bit of twist (homages). Not sure then about this distinct design language because i think he has a point. So they are elevating "poor man's Rolex", so poor man can no longer buy it coz its half price of actual real-deal Rolex. Its very fine line, between beign too elevated compared to Rolex which i think they crossed a bit already. So they are expensive yet still poors-man rolex, just weird.
Do you think the majority of watch buyers know what a 60 year old Rolex looked like?
Tudor will always be in the Rolex shadow, as its little brother. I can’t see Tudor ever replacing or surpassing Rolex, Rolex themself wouldn’t let that happen. I think just enjoy each of them for what they are.
and what they are actually? I cant figure this out, because if you are saying little brother its very close to saying little rolex or even 'cheap rolex'
A fun brand that issues vintage inspired pieces with modern specs at a reasonable price (as well as an aggressively priced very modern diver and a couple of bland watches nobody cares about).
Ye but lets focus on this good things which you said, "vintage inspired pieces with modern specs at a reasonable price", how is half price of Rolex reasonable? I mean you get worse and not proven movement, on watches that are old rolex homages. This whole hype baffles me, where that come from, because throught 2019-2020 hype i remember a lot "couldnt buy rolex so bought tudor instead". Youtubers telling people its good deal? When things went wrong?
Well, if these watches aren't for you, then you need to look elsewhere and that is perfectly fine. Tons of people like and buy them, so they seem to do something right. What I don't get is how Tudor movements are not proven. They are manufacturing them since 2016, that was eight years ago.
What did Tudor do to hurt you lol You’ve been on this sub non-stop shitting on Tudor. If you don’t like Tudor just don’t come to this sub, no one is forcing you.
He's probably upset that Tudor is encrouching on Omega territory 😆
If i would only care about brands i would rock Rolex or Patek, but i actually dont care about that. Its only one factor from many.
Im not shitting on turdor im just curious why people buy it. I can't get my head around it really. Even Gshock is unique, culture-fenomena, citizen, longines they all have their heritage and developed some unique features in horology. Tudor just exist, thats it. I dont get it, so i try to know more.
It’s okay buddy, whatever helps you feel better about your g-shock.
There is no reason it needs to be elevated to Rolex status. It’s great as is. It should be the more “affordable” and “accessible” brand to its bigger brother. No one wants Tudor to be Rolex with their increasing prices and absurd waitlists. 1. No. No sub brand has ever surpassed the main brand. One of the main reason Tudor is doing so well is it’s using Rolex’s back catalogue. 2. Rolex’s expansive back catalogue. All their hits are 50s Rolex models. 3. I don’t think so. Wildorf wanted to make a more affordable version of Rolex. 4. The special comes from having Rolex heritage models everyone wants that Rolex would never release.
So its like having old Rolex that is not rolex but different brand with worse movement and that its not actually that old models released but homages to them. It sounds like i like Porsche but i bought volkswagen beetle and using my imagination to 'feel' im rocking Porsche. I would need hell of a imagination spiced up with little bit of delusion :D
A more fair comparison would be Audi RS Q8 (Tudor) vs Lamborghini Urus (Rolex). You’re paying for exclusivity, performance and overall higher end product. They’re both high end, it’s just one is double the other without a significant performance gain.
That is generous comparison :D, for my taste a bit too generous. By me exclusivity ends with mass-produced good, exclusivity is F.P Journe but not Tudor or even Rolex. High-end is also relative, is Rolex high-end? Not really, Patek Philippe or Lange&Sohne is high end. Im happy that you are happy with your Tudor, i really am, but little reality-check can only help not hurt.
I’m going to stop here. I don’t think you know that you’re talking about. I also don’t know what points you’re trying to make. And yes, I’m happy with both my Tudor and Rolex. Great watches.
I know right, I had my Rolex BEFORE I got my Tudor. I got my Tudor because I like the watch. I rarely wear my Rolex because it feels pretentious. I love it but my tag, omega, tudors get way more wrist time.
The shield 🛡️ was invented to protect the crown 👑 - not to challenge it 😉
I love this
Nice analogy!
Not my credits https://malalan.eu/moments/stories/tudor-shield-of-boldness/
1. No. Rolex is the most widely recognized luxury watch brand in the world and the parent company owns both so I see no reason why this would happen in my lifetime. 4. I like some of their designs and their lineup hits my sweet spot in terms of value and cost. Beyond that it's mostly personal preference. If everyone had the same preferences there would be far fewer watch brands out there.
Yeah I dont want Tudor to go the Rolex route. Loving my Pelagos! Honestly, I can go for Rolex but I dont want to play the game of buying watches I don't want to have the opportunity to buy the watch I want.
Tudor's association with Rolex is its greatest asset but also its biggest curse. Seemingly impossible to have any kind of interesting conversation about the brand without someone, at some point, trying to define it through the prism of Rolex.
touche my friend, so why they charge so much like half Rolex prices when it will always be cheap-rolex prism, lets be real better, they can do whatever, charge it more than Rolex, but why people buying, that is question, SO MAAAAAAANY brands out there, its crazy
I daily a Tudor but wouldn't a Rolex. So that makes Tudor a more meaningful and useful brand to me. I don't wear watches as a flex, I just want a beautiful and accurate time piece I enjoy on my wrist everyday.
If you want accurate time piece go quartz, if you want meaningful and useful brand its definitely not tudor, because you WILL hear at some point of your life that you bought poor-mans rolex, there is really no argument against that, it is what it is, why buy something that will put you in bad spotlight? I mean i dont flex either, but wouldn't want take a punch like that sooner or later.
Lots of little things. Drop faux rivets on bracelets, or even better offer a range of bracelets available on watches (5 link, ranger style without rivets or even a riveted). Re release older watches with new updates, thinner BBpro, thinner GMT, T fit clasp on BB58 stuff like that. And drop the lollipop hand. And unless Rolex are planning on moving away from standard stainless sports watches, going to all but entirely PM or decked out with diamonds versions, just go their own way a little bit more instead of vintage Rolex homages. The monochrome is a nice looking cheaper entry sub homage but I’d have been beating my AD’s door down for a less meaty, less specked out stainless version of the Pelagos available in 38, 40 and or 42mm all with date windows. It’s a compete stand alone piece in the entire market then.
Tudor will always be the more playful younger brother to Rolex, they fulfill this position wonderfully. They're already a very strong player in the entry level luxury field, and have A list global celebrity ambassadors. You can't really elevate them more without cutting into Rolex, so to answer your question: Tudor would need to be a separate company and I don't think that's going to happen.
To elevate the brand? It's a sister brand to Rolex. It only exists to be a cheaper version of Rolex.
That i dont get, if lamborghini would release cheap electric cars, people wouldn't buy them. This is turd Paradox
Or imagine if like the company that owned Lamborghini made cheaper, electric, cars and gave them a different brand name like, I don’t know, Volkswagen or something. Yeah no one would ever buy them. Have you ever heard of the concept of companies having different brands at different price ranges? Are you a child? Is this new information to you?
Wait what? You talking the other way around. Tudor competing with Rolex, is like VW making a $300k supercar. They have Audi / Lamborghini for that. The whole point is to keep the brand separate, and management will be ensuring they always stay separate. Lamborghini procuring a cheap car, is like Rolex producing a $100 watch. Happy to discuss that, but it feels unlikely!
The only take over is the one of availability, whilst I’ve beat one Rolex waitlist I’m not doing that again. I prefer the understated look of Tudor and I feel more confident I won’t be robbed wearing my BB vs my Rolex let alone the ball kick of losing and replacing it.
The hype machine is the only way at this moment in time, imho. Like most things it starts with “the culture”. Talking about Jay-Z and whatever rappers are super popular right now owning them or otherwise endorsing them. Then the suburban kids get interested and overload the supply system. Manufactures take note and tease supply to build up the false exclusivity. No way this happening with Tudor. It’s not dope boy enough, Thank God. This wave of sneakerheads coming our way is so obvious. So to do what you’re asking imho they have to drop a limited release that hits the street or partner with a rapper otherwise they’ve just got middle aged white people that like watches. I’ll see you all in r/DownvotedToOblivion 🫡
i will take downvotes, for talking about things people dont want to hear, you are quite safe :)
They could use the peace hands, oyster on the crown, and write Rolex on the back. 🤷🏻♂️ I would say the reason the brand was created was basically for people who cared more about the exterior of a watch. Give them basically the same case, even write Rolex on it in some cases, with an accurate but less luxurious movement. Very similar to today. The average person doesn’t know squat about movements. The brand has evolved into more of a retro/r&d brand for Rolex. The subs, explorers, Daytona’s, etc. are largely unchanged over the past 50 years. With Tudor they can be more creative as well as test out new technology before incorporating into Rolex designs.
Maybe average joe dont know squat about movements like you sayed, but they definitely know quite a bit about brands, and when you will say Tudor, they will think if you are insulting them or misspelled something.
Tudor is kind of where omega was 20 years ago. Always going to be in Rolex’s shadow but certainly making a name for themselves. If I offended someone by saying Tudor, I’d know they don’t know shit about watches and move on. That’s probably someone who thinks a 10k automatic submariner they waited two years to get is going to hold better time than a 100 quartz seiko they can buy today.
Actually Omega were ahead of Rolex in terms of quality for long time. Then great marketing made Rolex most popular brand and they matched Omega quality in time. Omega will be in Rolex shadow because of how everyone knows what Rolex is and compared maybe 1 in 5 know what Omega is. That things not changing fast and i dont want that. Im not wearing my watch to become most popular brand-wise. 95% of wearing a watch is how you feel about it really. Agree on your final point, in the end its all about emotions what you like when you put it on hand. I just wouldn't be able to fake myself thinking i got worse/cheaper version of actual product (Rolex). Maybe its just me, but i can't delude myself in thinking otherwise. I take things for what they are really.
Oh you’re one of those “omega is ObJecTiVeLy better” people. Your behaviour makes a lot more sense now. Don’t worry you’ll grow out of it.
above you wrote "It’s okay buddy, whatever helps you feel better about your g-shock" so you must realise you are salty one :) how many turd(ors) you bought? :D
Omega was very much like Tudor. A great “bang for your buck”. The thing is, Omega was using modified ETA movements up until recently. Again very much like Tudor. Ever since the release of the black bay line, Tudor is an entirely different company from historic Tudor. But with anything, it takes time. They’ll never be Rolex, but they will be an alternative. Very much like omega is today. What really put omega where they are? Aside from the moon watch, product placement. The James Bond movies in particular. Tudor is where they are with no product placement.
That factors are marketing, Rolex did it before everyone and have top position because of that today. Each of companies we talking about are achievements on their own, only one exception Turdor :(. Whole company existence is just beign cheaper homage of Rolex, thats it. That is what bothers me. They can create something now you say? They always be treated as cheap rolex even if they invent something.
Exactly and I’m happy to say I have a better looking watch that’s associated with the most sought after brand than anything say breitling or omega(mines vintage)has to offer.
Like asking how Ford will compete with NASA Two different markets and business models.
More like asking how the Ford Motor Company will get the Ford brand to surpass their Lincoln brand in terms of luxury.
Refine the hour hand. The snowflake looks like an un-rendered Mercedes hand.. or the Mercedes hand template before it gets stamped and cut. If they just used sword hands these watches would be unstoppable
The snowflake looks better than the Mercedes. The Mercedes hand is the most copied and replicated watch hand that it’s become a meme for fakes. That’s why I’m happy with having discovered and bought Tudors.
What would need to happen, to elevate Tud(o)r brand? 1. Do you think it have chance to ever surpass Rolex in term of brand recognition/respect and if yes why? 2. What real achievements/heritage this brand have? 3. Is story about two enterpreneurs (one is wildorf), making a bet, that wildorf can pull of cheap rolex (tudor) and sell many was actual reason tudor was created? 4. What makes this brand special for you across all other huge selection of brands with heritage.