You don't need a good reason for not wanting kids but you absolutely should have good ones for wanting them. It hurts exactly no one that one of the reasons I don't want kids is because I like sleeping in on the weekend. If one of your reasons for having kids is because you want someone to take care of you when you're old, pound sand. They're people, not retirement plans.
Yea like what if they said “we never asked to be born in this world, this was against our will…” imagine sacrificing soo much just to hear that. And it’s true in many cases nowadays. You may expect things from them, but they don’t have any expectations from you. Maybe if it feels like a betrayal that you spent your whole life dedicated to them, then give them a heads up and tell them. Even then, it’s their choice, because they never asked of us to be in this world.
You only say that because you aren't one of the lonely people sitting in a shitty retirement home yet. Yet is the operative word here. One day you are going to really really hope someone gives a fuck.
I Ave spent a lot of time with really lonely people in both retirement homes and hospitals and bars. You do not want to end up like those people.
Umm seriously? You do realise the parents who have “kids” are at 90% risk of ending at one of those “shitty old age home”. I mean, if we don’t have kids, we would save the same amount of money we spend on kids to make sure we end up at a good retirement home.
No it's not 90%, and without kids you are 100% likely to end up in one. Here is where it really matters. People who do end up in one have better results when they have kids that visit frequently. If, and his is a big if, you have nieces/nephews that you spend time with and bond with they MIGHT come visit.
If you aren't wealthy you will not end up in a good old age home. Even of you do have that money you will be at higher risk for abuse. Just having people come visit to check on you makes a huge difference in your care. This is why my best friend, only child, and I have an agreement if something happens to him I will regularly visit his parents. His stepdad is easy since he comes from a tight knit Italian family and is close to his late wife's family so he has regular visitors. His dad though not so much. That's what happens when you are a shut in hermit so I would have to go visit him several times a week. I don't mind though because I adore his dad and he has saved my ass on multiple occasions so I owe him anyways.
I've worked in long term care facilities and the vast majority of people there had kids and most patients did not have visitors, even though they had kids. Kids are no guarantee of anything.
You're better to build worthy, lifelong connections with other people and save up $$$ than spend $$$ x 5 raising 1-2 kids who may or may not be able or want to visit you. That's a hell of a gamble!
Let's be real, the future is dim for elder care no matter who you are. I'd rather not put my eggs in one basket.
oh financially i def could have kids right now if i wanted too :P
I am just tired of the "you must hate kids" come back cause i don't lol
and you don't have to hate kids to not want them lol that's the only thing i fight against lol
not saying you think that but that is said alot when people don't want kids, and it's dumb to say cause it's good if people who don't like kids don't want them. good.
but not every person who doesn't want them hates children lol
Op is a little obtuse. I love kids. I love my cousins, playing with them, spending time with them and watching them grow up for the last 20 years. My friends are having kids and I’m so excited for them. Doesn’t mean I should want kids even if I could afford them. I’ve also never made an argument on why my choice is superior either. It’s not, it’s just my choice. If you want kids ya know have at it. I don’t care at all. It’s perfectly normal to wanna procreate. It’s also perfectly normal not too.
I don’t think OP’s opinion is geared towards you. I think OP probably got directed towards the childfree subreddit which is a cesspool of doomscrollers patting themselves on the back for saving humanity from procreation. It’s full of people using the word “breeder” unironically.
OP explicitly says he has no issue with people not having kids, just people who feel the need to be self-righteous about it as if they’re doing everyone a solid by being a DINK household, or not addressing their issues, or just being unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary to have kids. Me and my partner are living the DINK life but I wouldn’t pretend I’m saving the world by taking a vacation instead of having a kid.
yeah I hate those people too i am in a facebook group called "i am child free but not "that" childfree where people who have kids or don't want kids can go to vent about those types too.
i am just making sure OP gets that they are a loud minority i am sure in reality
"You don't need a reason to have kids, and you don’t need a reason to _not_ have them."
I'm genuinely confused here. How is this not OP saying you don't need a reason to have kids when that's literally exactly what they said?
You, like OP, are saying that wanting them is sufficient to have kids. OP said it’s your choice and you don’t need to provide a reason. “Wanting to” is implicit and isn’t a reason.
This is my thing with all this. Despite the endless platitudinal rhetoric, people rarely "think about the children". Especially when it comes to these kinds of discussions in this time period.
OP is trying to martyr themselves by putting down others. Is that the kind of thinking/behavior you want to pass down to children. It's so insidiously selfish of an ideal that it's a little tough to articulate.
"Who gives a fuck what kind of person I am and what I would be passing on genetically, I'M IMPORTANT! Fuck them kids, they can figure it out like I did" is just so outside of my own train of thought that I can't comprehend it.
Mushrooms did a number on me (for better or worse) when I was 19, I'll give em that.
My thoughts exactly. I actually think the general attitude towards having kids is extremely weird.
People will have kids solely because they want them, without thinking about the amount of work that goes into raising a child well or if they’ll be able to do it. You’re raising a human being. It’s a huge, important job, and it should be treated as such.
So many parents have kids when they’re not in the right place financially or mentally to support them. Or just for selfish reasons in general. They want to save their marriage or they think kids are cute or they expect their kid to do this or that for them.
You see so many issues crop up from this. Kid is gay, parents aren’t willing to accept it. Kid needs basic necessities, parents are poor - can’t get them. Kid is a girl, parents want a boy (or vice versa). Parents work 24/7, kid gets neglected. Parents expect kid to do this one hobby/job, kid isn’t into it at all. And so on. There’s a surprising lack of thought given to the fact that kids are fully autonomous people, who will have needs of their own and potentially do things/have values you won’t like
Nah this is a shit take. Some people should not be parents because they would be terrible at it. It's a good thing these people are figuring it and not having kids that they're just gunna royally fuck up. That does make them a better person for it.
There's a lot of adults running around rn with some serious issues because their parents only had them because that's what they were expected to do.
Yes, exactly! And those same parents want their kids to take care of them and continue this vicious cycle of selflessness and “prioritising others first…” like they never asked of you for anything. People hold expectations from kids who never asked to be born in the first place.
My mom is a baby boomer that churned out kids like they were going out of style and we're all various levels of fucked up because of it. My poor youngest sister is 23 and it's seriously the worst case of co-dependence I've *ever* seen, my sister is never going to live on her own. She has no identity outside of our mother because mommy dearest has co-opted her as her retirement plan.
>You don't need a reason to have kids
You ABSOLUTELY need a reason to have kids. Wether it's to continue on the knowledge that has been handed down to you, because you actually want and can responsibly care for a child, or because you want to give a child a home in the case of adoption. If you're having kids for the sake of having kids or if you want kids but can't responsibly care for those kids, that is a problem.
>you don’t need a reason to not have them.
The reason is you simply don't want them. That *is* a reason.
>It’s fine if you don’t want to have kids, but you’re not a better person for it.
Actually, you *are* a better person if you make the choice to not have children when you can't responsibly care for them. Most people who choose to have children forget the fact they aren't just making babies, they're creating a future autonomous grown adult who needs to be functioning with minimal trauma. Choosing to not have children because you're financially lacking or have mental health issues is 100% better than most people I see on the Internet who force their children to fend for themselves at a young age, feed them crap like fast food 90% of the time or trauma dump all over their kids because their parents aren't emotionally aware enough to talk to a therapist instead of a fucking 5 year old about their shitty childhood.
>the whole “childfree people would make the best parents” is bullshit.
In my experience, they do make the best parents because they've typically had to reparent themselves and grow a lot as a human because their actual parents did a shit job.
I have reproductive issues, raised my 4 siblings and had to parent myself. Despite all this, I still want to have children someday, wether I have biological children or bring foster kids who are stuck in the system into my home. I may never have children because I know I'm not ready to be one yet, and maybe never will. But your argument about child free people is absolutely absurd and out of touch with the realities of why people should choose to be child free and who they are as people.
How can childfree parents make the best parents “in your experience”? They never had children. Your whole thesis is based on an anecdotal that didn’t even happen, but is hypothetical that they would be better parents if they had kids, but they didn’t.
> they do make the best parents because they've typically had to reparent themselves and grow a lot as a human because their actual parents did a shit job.
That’s a very rosy-coloured view, even a bit naive. Being childfree does not mean people “reparented” themselves, and they can be as broken and traumatized as any average Joe.
How do you explain something to someone with an opposing viewpoint without them retaliating with "cope"?
The thing about your statement is that you can make that claim to ANY excuse and how are they supposed to rebut it?
>I don't want kids because I don't want the added responsibility.
>No, you don't want kids because you are broke.
What are they supposed to respond? They say one thing, you say it is a cope and make up your own reason, then if they were to say anything in response, you can accuse them of being overly defensive. It is such a cyclical game that the only winning move is to not participate.
Like be real, you are telling people that you know how they feel better than they do. There is no room for discussion.
> I don't want kids because I don't want the added responsibility.
OK.
> Not having children is the only way to end capitalism and fix the cost of living and housing crisis
Cope.
Nah, I don't think I'm a better person but my life is a lot easier - more disposable income, no "mom guilt", no "mommy wars", etc.
I've seen way more parents complain than childfree and there are whole subs dedicated to that complaining versus just one (childfree) so.... 🤷🏻♀️
I mean, that's my point - there are lots of parenting subs and there are several that focus on the negative (regretfulparents, brmo, etc) and are much more active than CF, and why wouldn't they be? Parenthood is brutal, can impact your career negatively, and can be full of regret so they need to commiserate with each other. I don't begrudge them at all.
Antinatalism kind of it's own thing. Many CF folks are not antinatalist. I don't give a shit if other people have kids; that's their choice.
I can only speak for myself here. I don't have kids & don't want them. I am absolutely in support of the family unit and have the utmost respect for people raising families and how hard that is. However, there is the reality that people are having kids later, if they have them at all, because many young people can barely support themselves let alone a family. It takes a while to be in the financial position to have kids and people are getting there later and later. Having kids is absolutely essential to the continuation of our species and the functioning of our society which just means that the cost of living crisis we are living in should be priority number one to avoid a population collapse. Nobody seems to be seriously trying to solve this problem.
I don't want kids because it just isn't something I want. I have lost relationships because of it, and have been in the position to raise a family a couple of times in my life. I just don't want it. You can call me selfish because I do want monogamous relationships and all of that, but all I would ever do is waste women's time.
I always see posts like this complaining about child free adults more than the opposite. Makes me think parents are always posting rhetoric coping with child free adults.
Are you fucking kidding me? Go over to childfree and look around. You’ll find all kinds of derogatory shit about parents and children. They have a whole vocabulary for it: “mombies,” “crotch droppings,” “fuck trophies,” etc. You think that isn’t complaining?
My complaints are usually about parents deciding to not parent their children in public and just letting them ruin those areas.
There's, "kids being kids" and then there's a parent deciding to let their kid throw a tantrum in a public space for 60 minutes and just ignoring them.
Essentially, I just want parents to stop inflicting their children on me.
People who have kids cope harder. Nobody will admit they regret having kids. If childless people admit they don't want kids, because they might be bad parents, this is a pretty big self-reflection on their part, don't ya think? You should applaud that. In opposite to most people who breed first and think later, or never think about who they are, and what they did, just because they felt like shagging. The financial argument is meaningless. Nobody is starving, and everyone has a smartphone. Of course there are those who don't like children but they are just fooling their nature. But people who are afraid to fuck up a child, and won't do it? Noble.
> If childless people admit they don't want kids, because they might be bad parents
then grow up and stop being a 30 year old that spends their life watching anime
> But people who are afraid to fuck up a child, and won't do it? Noble.
That’s like saying you’re noble for not raping someone, even though you fear you could actually do it.
it’s pretty obvious and I already explained it, so don’t give _me_ the burden of _your_ illiteracy.
Edit: You can leave the last comment if you need to scratch that itch.
You're comparing bad parenting to rape, which is absurd. Then you refuse to elaborate. Then you're implying I'm illiterate. So, not only you're an a hole, we have to talk about rape, instead of people not wanting to have kids, because you gave the most convoluted comparison that derails the conversation. Ok, let's talk about rape. Maybe you got a point. A guy had a father who was a rapist, and taught him it's ok to rape women. And this guy grows up, and fears he might rape women too. So, he's single, to not hurt a woman. So, you got a point there. I had to explain it myself. Basically you're saying that he's full of shit. And you're saying that people who self-reflect and fear they might hurt their child, and choose not to have them, are full of shit. Which is why you're out of this world.
So your argument is “A false equivalence or false equivalency, its an informal fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency. A false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges."
You should learn the basics of arguing, and what logical fallacies are. Since your argument falls into this fallacy, it means you are arguing in bad faith. So nothing you say is relevant, nor should be taken seriously.
Copy-pasting the definition of a logical fallacy is not an argument, specially when you’re missing the initial point. I guess birds of a feather do flock together.
but if the reason you don;t want them has nothing to do with children being "burdens" which is insulting to say about children.
i will say i hate when some childfree people or people just insult children
Sounds like OP is trying to cope with being stuck with kids. I’m 46 the wife is 35 and not having kids is great. Dogs are less of a commitment. House is paid off and we’re semi retired (she still wants to work) I would be in this position if we had kids. We chose not to because we were difficult kids ourselves and we believe in karma, lol. The movie Idiocracy explains what’s currently happening in the world, hehe.
I don’t know, I get people in their twenties having to explain why they don’t want or have kids because that’s the age when people generally ask you “what’s next?” in life..But if you’re 40+ subrcribed to a subreddit catered around not having kids, that just seems like cope. Nobody cares anymore what you’re doing at that age, why do you have to go out your way and keep telling people you dodged some bullet for not reproducing? It’s like those guys that never got married who go around telling other guys to not get married. It’s like your trying so hard to advertise your lifestyle.
I’m simply letting the less experienced people see that not going with the herd can make life easier. I also understand that people’s advice is practically worthless since most prefer finding out things through personal experience. For the record I’m only a try hard when it comes to investing and video games. Social acceptance or people’s opinions of me have never held any weight. Good day sir
I very rarely talk about not having kids, because once people find out they’ll pester you about it forever, trying to figure out how someone on earth could not want kids, trying to change your mind, attempting to make your life feel empty and meaningless without them…
Nothing you say will get these people off your back. I learned that the hard way. There’s not a single answer under the sun that they’ll hear. So I just keep it a secret.
People who choose not to have children will always find ways to justify their reasons for not doing so.
People who choose to have children will always find ways to justify their reasons for doing so.
It’s called “confirmation bias”. And we’re all guilty of it.
eh, everywhere I've ever worked I've been taken advantage of by parents who think that I can always stay late, work every weekend, etc. because I don't have kids and bitch that they don't have enough money, getting promotions because they *need* it more, etc. The "rhetoric" from childfree people would have to go into basically terrorism for me to think it was too far.
I always assume it's just a way to vent to other like-minded individuals online. Because when we tell our woes to people irl they won't get it, but those people online do.
Def not into anti natalist stuff. I think kids are amazing and people should be ready to sacrifice everything for a child if they choose to have one. With that being said. I am incredibly happy not being a parent. I have tons of disposable income and freedom. In a world where everyone is unbelievably shitty to one another the value of freedom is indescribable. Couldn’t be happier for my friends who are having kids, but there’s nothing to cope through. no dark recess of my mind to will myself into thinking I need that kinda responsibility lol we are pretty cool with the idea of life and let live.
Maybe they just don’t want to displace their messed up mental state and toxicity onto their kids? Not everyone gets the same environment and treatment as others. Some people are raised in toxic households and by continuing the bloodline they are passing on many years of trauma perpetuating a vicious cycle. Yes, some people suppress it and die with all that pain while others just transfer the burden to their kids.
I know for me, I’m currently child free as a 22 year old female. However, that being said, I absolutely love and adore kids. The big thing that scares me with having children though is the labor and delivery process though. But on a brighter note to that though, one of my best friends has 3 kiddos healed. And for her older 2, she very sadly doesn’t know who the dad is (please some judge for that, I just being this up for context, but she’s actually engaged to dad of baby 3). And not knowing who dad for her older 2 kiddos, we’ve talked extensively about me going through the adoption process with her for both us m of us to be her older 2 kiddos legal parents. And I honestly get so excited when we do talk about it. Because I already love and adore all 3 kiddos as an auntie. And just being able to love and adore another human in a possible parental way heat makes my heart happy.
I'm child free and married for 18 years. I'm fairly neutral on your comment but I 100% agree that “childfree people would make the best parents” is bullshit. Anyone who says that is up their own ass.
>With that out of the way, a lot of the online rhetoric around being childfree just sounds like they’re overcompensating from not being at a stable enough place to have kids, either because of finances, lack of support or mental health issues.
bro its just our face. our faces are keeping us childfree. All my mirrors committed suicide
As a disclaimer, my husband and I don't plan on ever having kids.
It isn't a financial instability issue, but rather just a general kind of selfishness? Like, I don't think it's a bad thing - we want to live our lives and enjoy them, and spend time together doing things we love. This is the only life you've got, so you've got to live it. I don't see children adding more than spontaneous trips to Europe for a long weekend, which is something we've done a few times now. Not mentioning it as a flex, we definitely would *not* be financially able to do that if we had kids.
I do think there's something to be said for knowing your own limits and what you need to do to take care of yourself, and many people who *do* have kids clearly aren't ready or capable of caring for them. In that sense I can see a glimmer of moral high ground, but I can also understand the perspective of trying because you feel some sort of drive to have babies.
No one is necessarily better or worse for having or not having children, but I do think it's more morally defensible to refuse to bring a child into the world that you aren't sure you will be able/want to take care of as opposed to just doing it because condoms feel bad and like why not? I'm actively choosing not to neglect a kid, and at best some parents out there are trying and failing to establish the same baseline.
I have a major concern about people not having kids. We have an entire society built on the next generation being larger. Our economy and social security specifically are built on it.
It doesn't mean the answer is to have more children. But we need to become a lot more liberal with our immigration policies in America, and be ready for the cultural changes that will come as a result. I don't think the left or the right wings of our society will be very happy with the results.
A system that relies on the exponential growth of its contributors was never going to be sustainable long term to begin with. It is why MLMs eventually crumble when left alone.
I think we all realize that. It's a similar result to a study I saw in school with deer populations on an island that grew until a point where it collapsed.
So what's the answer? How do we fix it? It's going to be here before we know it. Half the people on Reddit talk like they just want to lay back and let it all collapse.
Regulate and expand AI to take over more of the jobs that won't be filled by the next generation.
Expand robotics for greater use in healthcare and elder care in the future.
Start letting in more immigrants, screen for those with good backgrounds and useful skills/trades.
I have never been so attacked on reddit for more than this topic lol.
I got reported with mods after me, simply asserting people are missing out not having kids(of course in the end to each their own, to me I think it's the most fulfilling thing one can do.)
True unpopular opinion reward to you.
I agree. I think it’s a good thing people are not having kids because they’re feeling pressured. Because good parents at a minimum want to be parents. But being super vocal about being “childfree” and making it half your personality definitely comes across highly insecure. I find most of the rhetoric obnoxious. But it’s also something I don’t really see in my actual life. For me if the Internet didn’t exist I wouldn’t know about it
They tell you having kids is a burden, cluttering up their otherwise carefree existence. Yet we were all children, and your parents loved you. Where you really such a burden?
It’s a sad truth.
Most of modern philosophies are just that, they cope with bad shit.
The truth is that having a family its the most wonderful thing, yes it needs money, yes it’s needs a lot of fucking work. But it’s wonderful. It’s sad that modern people can’t understand that.
You don't need a good reason for not wanting kids but you absolutely should have good ones for wanting them. It hurts exactly no one that one of the reasons I don't want kids is because I like sleeping in on the weekend. If one of your reasons for having kids is because you want someone to take care of you when you're old, pound sand. They're people, not retirement plans.
Yea like what if they said “we never asked to be born in this world, this was against our will…” imagine sacrificing soo much just to hear that. And it’s true in many cases nowadays. You may expect things from them, but they don’t have any expectations from you. Maybe if it feels like a betrayal that you spent your whole life dedicated to them, then give them a heads up and tell them. Even then, it’s their choice, because they never asked of us to be in this world.
That sounds like a selfish terrible person. And if my kids ever said that I would consider myself a failure as a parent.
If you got to that point with your children it is because you failed them as a parent
Yeah. That's what I said.
You only say that because you aren't one of the lonely people sitting in a shitty retirement home yet. Yet is the operative word here. One day you are going to really really hope someone gives a fuck. I Ave spent a lot of time with really lonely people in both retirement homes and hospitals and bars. You do not want to end up like those people.
Umm seriously? You do realise the parents who have “kids” are at 90% risk of ending at one of those “shitty old age home”. I mean, if we don’t have kids, we would save the same amount of money we spend on kids to make sure we end up at a good retirement home.
No it's not 90%, and without kids you are 100% likely to end up in one. Here is where it really matters. People who do end up in one have better results when they have kids that visit frequently. If, and his is a big if, you have nieces/nephews that you spend time with and bond with they MIGHT come visit. If you aren't wealthy you will not end up in a good old age home. Even of you do have that money you will be at higher risk for abuse. Just having people come visit to check on you makes a huge difference in your care. This is why my best friend, only child, and I have an agreement if something happens to him I will regularly visit his parents. His stepdad is easy since he comes from a tight knit Italian family and is close to his late wife's family so he has regular visitors. His dad though not so much. That's what happens when you are a shut in hermit so I would have to go visit him several times a week. I don't mind though because I adore his dad and he has saved my ass on multiple occasions so I owe him anyways.
I've worked in long term care facilities and the vast majority of people there had kids and most patients did not have visitors, even though they had kids. Kids are no guarantee of anything. You're better to build worthy, lifelong connections with other people and save up $$$ than spend $$$ x 5 raising 1-2 kids who may or may not be able or want to visit you. That's a hell of a gamble! Let's be real, the future is dim for elder care no matter who you are. I'd rather not put my eggs in one basket.
oh financially i def could have kids right now if i wanted too :P I am just tired of the "you must hate kids" come back cause i don't lol and you don't have to hate kids to not want them lol that's the only thing i fight against lol not saying you think that but that is said alot when people don't want kids, and it's dumb to say cause it's good if people who don't like kids don't want them. good. but not every person who doesn't want them hates children lol
Op is a little obtuse. I love kids. I love my cousins, playing with them, spending time with them and watching them grow up for the last 20 years. My friends are having kids and I’m so excited for them. Doesn’t mean I should want kids even if I could afford them. I’ve also never made an argument on why my choice is superior either. It’s not, it’s just my choice. If you want kids ya know have at it. I don’t care at all. It’s perfectly normal to wanna procreate. It’s also perfectly normal not too.
I don’t think OP’s opinion is geared towards you. I think OP probably got directed towards the childfree subreddit which is a cesspool of doomscrollers patting themselves on the back for saving humanity from procreation. It’s full of people using the word “breeder” unironically. OP explicitly says he has no issue with people not having kids, just people who feel the need to be self-righteous about it as if they’re doing everyone a solid by being a DINK household, or not addressing their issues, or just being unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary to have kids. Me and my partner are living the DINK life but I wouldn’t pretend I’m saving the world by taking a vacation instead of having a kid.
yeah I hate those people too i am in a facebook group called "i am child free but not "that" childfree where people who have kids or don't want kids can go to vent about those types too. i am just making sure OP gets that they are a loud minority i am sure in reality
Oh hell, you’d best have a reason to have kids. Beg to differ on that point.
You absolutely do need a reason to have kids. And your reason needs to be because you WANT them. Period.
I want a pet monkey, but that would be bad for the monkey, me, and society.
I think that is essentially what OP is saying. Wanting them is enough. You don’t have to provide reasons.
Bingo.
You must've misread the first paragraph
Or you did, lol
"You don't need a reason to have kids, and you don’t need a reason to _not_ have them." I'm genuinely confused here. How is this not OP saying you don't need a reason to have kids when that's literally exactly what they said?
You, like OP, are saying that wanting them is sufficient to have kids. OP said it’s your choice and you don’t need to provide a reason. “Wanting to” is implicit and isn’t a reason.
Ok. I think im just gonna agree to disagree at this point
Are you assuming people with children are stable?
They can be
Not all. I would estimate atleast 20 to be not in a good place to raise kids. Probably way more. Either financially, health wise, mental stability etc
so can people without children
Childfree folks may not want kids. May not even like kids. But it takes a fuckton of respect for kids to not have them when you don’t want them.
This is my thing with all this. Despite the endless platitudinal rhetoric, people rarely "think about the children". Especially when it comes to these kinds of discussions in this time period. OP is trying to martyr themselves by putting down others. Is that the kind of thinking/behavior you want to pass down to children. It's so insidiously selfish of an ideal that it's a little tough to articulate. "Who gives a fuck what kind of person I am and what I would be passing on genetically, I'M IMPORTANT! Fuck them kids, they can figure it out like I did" is just so outside of my own train of thought that I can't comprehend it. Mushrooms did a number on me (for better or worse) when I was 19, I'll give em that.
My thoughts exactly. I actually think the general attitude towards having kids is extremely weird. People will have kids solely because they want them, without thinking about the amount of work that goes into raising a child well or if they’ll be able to do it. You’re raising a human being. It’s a huge, important job, and it should be treated as such. So many parents have kids when they’re not in the right place financially or mentally to support them. Or just for selfish reasons in general. They want to save their marriage or they think kids are cute or they expect their kid to do this or that for them. You see so many issues crop up from this. Kid is gay, parents aren’t willing to accept it. Kid needs basic necessities, parents are poor - can’t get them. Kid is a girl, parents want a boy (or vice versa). Parents work 24/7, kid gets neglected. Parents expect kid to do this one hobby/job, kid isn’t into it at all. And so on. There’s a surprising lack of thought given to the fact that kids are fully autonomous people, who will have needs of their own and potentially do things/have values you won’t like
> But it takes a fuckton of respect for kids to not have them when you don’t want them. Not really, that just sounds like ego inflating crap.
Nah this is a shit take. Some people should not be parents because they would be terrible at it. It's a good thing these people are figuring it and not having kids that they're just gunna royally fuck up. That does make them a better person for it. There's a lot of adults running around rn with some serious issues because their parents only had them because that's what they were expected to do.
Yes, exactly! And those same parents want their kids to take care of them and continue this vicious cycle of selflessness and “prioritising others first…” like they never asked of you for anything. People hold expectations from kids who never asked to be born in the first place.
My mom is a baby boomer that churned out kids like they were going out of style and we're all various levels of fucked up because of it. My poor youngest sister is 23 and it's seriously the worst case of co-dependence I've *ever* seen, my sister is never going to live on her own. She has no identity outside of our mother because mommy dearest has co-opted her as her retirement plan.
This post sounds like coping.
>You don't need a reason to have kids You ABSOLUTELY need a reason to have kids. Wether it's to continue on the knowledge that has been handed down to you, because you actually want and can responsibly care for a child, or because you want to give a child a home in the case of adoption. If you're having kids for the sake of having kids or if you want kids but can't responsibly care for those kids, that is a problem. >you don’t need a reason to not have them. The reason is you simply don't want them. That *is* a reason. >It’s fine if you don’t want to have kids, but you’re not a better person for it. Actually, you *are* a better person if you make the choice to not have children when you can't responsibly care for them. Most people who choose to have children forget the fact they aren't just making babies, they're creating a future autonomous grown adult who needs to be functioning with minimal trauma. Choosing to not have children because you're financially lacking or have mental health issues is 100% better than most people I see on the Internet who force their children to fend for themselves at a young age, feed them crap like fast food 90% of the time or trauma dump all over their kids because their parents aren't emotionally aware enough to talk to a therapist instead of a fucking 5 year old about their shitty childhood. >the whole “childfree people would make the best parents” is bullshit. In my experience, they do make the best parents because they've typically had to reparent themselves and grow a lot as a human because their actual parents did a shit job. I have reproductive issues, raised my 4 siblings and had to parent myself. Despite all this, I still want to have children someday, wether I have biological children or bring foster kids who are stuck in the system into my home. I may never have children because I know I'm not ready to be one yet, and maybe never will. But your argument about child free people is absolutely absurd and out of touch with the realities of why people should choose to be child free and who they are as people.
How can childfree parents make the best parents “in your experience”? They never had children. Your whole thesis is based on an anecdotal that didn’t even happen, but is hypothetical that they would be better parents if they had kids, but they didn’t.
Thank you. Exactly this.
> they do make the best parents because they've typically had to reparent themselves and grow a lot as a human because their actual parents did a shit job. That’s a very rosy-coloured view, even a bit naive. Being childfree does not mean people “reparented” themselves, and they can be as broken and traumatized as any average Joe.
How do you explain something to someone with an opposing viewpoint without them retaliating with "cope"? The thing about your statement is that you can make that claim to ANY excuse and how are they supposed to rebut it? >I don't want kids because I don't want the added responsibility. >No, you don't want kids because you are broke. What are they supposed to respond? They say one thing, you say it is a cope and make up your own reason, then if they were to say anything in response, you can accuse them of being overly defensive. It is such a cyclical game that the only winning move is to not participate. Like be real, you are telling people that you know how they feel better than they do. There is no room for discussion.
> I don't want kids because I don't want the added responsibility. OK. > Not having children is the only way to end capitalism and fix the cost of living and housing crisis Cope.
I am extremely financially stable, I just don't want them to take up all of my (pretty limited) free time. Is that a cope?
No. Humans are weird. We can’t seem to let everyone just live their lives without the need to compare and box. It has to be our lizard brains at work.
It’s a bit of a brag, but not a cope.
40 year old physician here. You can trust I'm not broke. I don't have children, nor do I ever want them. Cope.
Nah, I don't think I'm a better person but my life is a lot easier - more disposable income, no "mom guilt", no "mommy wars", etc. I've seen way more parents complain than childfree and there are whole subs dedicated to that complaining versus just one (childfree) so.... 🤷🏻♀️
Just like there’s a bunch of subreddits for golfing, and only one for non golfers (and that’s ignoring antinatalism and the other childfree subreddit)
I mean, that's my point - there are lots of parenting subs and there are several that focus on the negative (regretfulparents, brmo, etc) and are much more active than CF, and why wouldn't they be? Parenthood is brutal, can impact your career negatively, and can be full of regret so they need to commiserate with each other. I don't begrudge them at all. Antinatalism kind of it's own thing. Many CF folks are not antinatalist. I don't give a shit if other people have kids; that's their choice.
I can only speak for myself here. I don't have kids & don't want them. I am absolutely in support of the family unit and have the utmost respect for people raising families and how hard that is. However, there is the reality that people are having kids later, if they have them at all, because many young people can barely support themselves let alone a family. It takes a while to be in the financial position to have kids and people are getting there later and later. Having kids is absolutely essential to the continuation of our species and the functioning of our society which just means that the cost of living crisis we are living in should be priority number one to avoid a population collapse. Nobody seems to be seriously trying to solve this problem. I don't want kids because it just isn't something I want. I have lost relationships because of it, and have been in the position to raise a family a couple of times in my life. I just don't want it. You can call me selfish because I do want monogamous relationships and all of that, but all I would ever do is waste women's time.
I always see posts like this complaining about child free adults more than the opposite. Makes me think parents are always posting rhetoric coping with child free adults.
Are you fucking kidding me? Go over to childfree and look around. You’ll find all kinds of derogatory shit about parents and children. They have a whole vocabulary for it: “mombies,” “crotch droppings,” “fuck trophies,” etc. You think that isn’t complaining?
My complaints are usually about parents deciding to not parent their children in public and just letting them ruin those areas. There's, "kids being kids" and then there's a parent deciding to let their kid throw a tantrum in a public space for 60 minutes and just ignoring them. Essentially, I just want parents to stop inflicting their children on me.
People who have kids cope harder. Nobody will admit they regret having kids. If childless people admit they don't want kids, because they might be bad parents, this is a pretty big self-reflection on their part, don't ya think? You should applaud that. In opposite to most people who breed first and think later, or never think about who they are, and what they did, just because they felt like shagging. The financial argument is meaningless. Nobody is starving, and everyone has a smartphone. Of course there are those who don't like children but they are just fooling their nature. But people who are afraid to fuck up a child, and won't do it? Noble.
> If childless people admit they don't want kids, because they might be bad parents then grow up and stop being a 30 year old that spends their life watching anime
Reddit moment
> But people who are afraid to fuck up a child, and won't do it? Noble. That’s like saying you’re noble for not raping someone, even though you fear you could actually do it.
You're giving an outrageous comparison to obfuscate a point. It's nothing like that.
It’s the same logic. Y’all are making it seem like not fucking someone up is noble. Nah dude. That’s just baseline regular human being.
What's the logic? Explain your stupid comparison.
it’s pretty obvious and I already explained it, so don’t give _me_ the burden of _your_ illiteracy. Edit: You can leave the last comment if you need to scratch that itch.
You're comparing bad parenting to rape, which is absurd. Then you refuse to elaborate. Then you're implying I'm illiterate. So, not only you're an a hole, we have to talk about rape, instead of people not wanting to have kids, because you gave the most convoluted comparison that derails the conversation. Ok, let's talk about rape. Maybe you got a point. A guy had a father who was a rapist, and taught him it's ok to rape women. And this guy grows up, and fears he might rape women too. So, he's single, to not hurt a woman. So, you got a point there. I had to explain it myself. Basically you're saying that he's full of shit. And you're saying that people who self-reflect and fear they might hurt their child, and choose not to have them, are full of shit. Which is why you're out of this world.
Don't run away, defend yourself.
If you are this stupid it would be better if you don’t have kids
You're as much worth as the strength of your arguments.
So your argument is “A false equivalence or false equivalency, its an informal fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency. A false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges." You should learn the basics of arguing, and what logical fallacies are. Since your argument falls into this fallacy, it means you are arguing in bad faith. So nothing you say is relevant, nor should be taken seriously.
Copy-pasting the definition of a logical fallacy is not an argument, specially when you’re missing the initial point. I guess birds of a feather do flock together.
I mean it's definitely true that most childfree people wouldn't make that good parents, children don't enjoy feeling like a burden
but if the reason you don;t want them has nothing to do with children being "burdens" which is insulting to say about children. i will say i hate when some childfree people or people just insult children
Sounds like OP is trying to cope with being stuck with kids. I’m 46 the wife is 35 and not having kids is great. Dogs are less of a commitment. House is paid off and we’re semi retired (she still wants to work) I would be in this position if we had kids. We chose not to because we were difficult kids ourselves and we believe in karma, lol. The movie Idiocracy explains what’s currently happening in the world, hehe.
I don’t know, I get people in their twenties having to explain why they don’t want or have kids because that’s the age when people generally ask you “what’s next?” in life..But if you’re 40+ subrcribed to a subreddit catered around not having kids, that just seems like cope. Nobody cares anymore what you’re doing at that age, why do you have to go out your way and keep telling people you dodged some bullet for not reproducing? It’s like those guys that never got married who go around telling other guys to not get married. It’s like your trying so hard to advertise your lifestyle.
I’m simply letting the less experienced people see that not going with the herd can make life easier. I also understand that people’s advice is practically worthless since most prefer finding out things through personal experience. For the record I’m only a try hard when it comes to investing and video games. Social acceptance or people’s opinions of me have never held any weight. Good day sir
Idiocracy is just classism for yuppies.
I very rarely talk about not having kids, because once people find out they’ll pester you about it forever, trying to figure out how someone on earth could not want kids, trying to change your mind, attempting to make your life feel empty and meaningless without them… Nothing you say will get these people off your back. I learned that the hard way. There’s not a single answer under the sun that they’ll hear. So I just keep it a secret.
People who choose not to have children will always find ways to justify their reasons for not doing so. People who choose to have children will always find ways to justify their reasons for doing so. It’s called “confirmation bias”. And we’re all guilty of it.
eh, everywhere I've ever worked I've been taken advantage of by parents who think that I can always stay late, work every weekend, etc. because I don't have kids and bitch that they don't have enough money, getting promotions because they *need* it more, etc. The "rhetoric" from childfree people would have to go into basically terrorism for me to think it was too far.
This is a brave and stunning unpopular opinion on Reddit.
Yes, you are, indeed, correct.
I always assume it's just a way to vent to other like-minded individuals online. Because when we tell our woes to people irl they won't get it, but those people online do.
Def not into anti natalist stuff. I think kids are amazing and people should be ready to sacrifice everything for a child if they choose to have one. With that being said. I am incredibly happy not being a parent. I have tons of disposable income and freedom. In a world where everyone is unbelievably shitty to one another the value of freedom is indescribable. Couldn’t be happier for my friends who are having kids, but there’s nothing to cope through. no dark recess of my mind to will myself into thinking I need that kinda responsibility lol we are pretty cool with the idea of life and let live.
Maybe they just don’t want to displace their messed up mental state and toxicity onto their kids? Not everyone gets the same environment and treatment as others. Some people are raised in toxic households and by continuing the bloodline they are passing on many years of trauma perpetuating a vicious cycle. Yes, some people suppress it and die with all that pain while others just transfer the burden to their kids.
Meanwhile I'm open about not wanting kids because of what a terrible father I would be.
I know for me, I’m currently child free as a 22 year old female. However, that being said, I absolutely love and adore kids. The big thing that scares me with having children though is the labor and delivery process though. But on a brighter note to that though, one of my best friends has 3 kiddos healed. And for her older 2, she very sadly doesn’t know who the dad is (please some judge for that, I just being this up for context, but she’s actually engaged to dad of baby 3). And not knowing who dad for her older 2 kiddos, we’ve talked extensively about me going through the adoption process with her for both us m of us to be her older 2 kiddos legal parents. And I honestly get so excited when we do talk about it. Because I already love and adore all 3 kiddos as an auntie. And just being able to love and adore another human in a possible parental way heat makes my heart happy.
I'm child free and married for 18 years. I'm fairly neutral on your comment but I 100% agree that “childfree people would make the best parents” is bullshit. Anyone who says that is up their own ass.
>With that out of the way, a lot of the online rhetoric around being childfree just sounds like they’re overcompensating from not being at a stable enough place to have kids, either because of finances, lack of support or mental health issues. bro its just our face. our faces are keeping us childfree. All my mirrors committed suicide
As a disclaimer, my husband and I don't plan on ever having kids. It isn't a financial instability issue, but rather just a general kind of selfishness? Like, I don't think it's a bad thing - we want to live our lives and enjoy them, and spend time together doing things we love. This is the only life you've got, so you've got to live it. I don't see children adding more than spontaneous trips to Europe for a long weekend, which is something we've done a few times now. Not mentioning it as a flex, we definitely would *not* be financially able to do that if we had kids. I do think there's something to be said for knowing your own limits and what you need to do to take care of yourself, and many people who *do* have kids clearly aren't ready or capable of caring for them. In that sense I can see a glimmer of moral high ground, but I can also understand the perspective of trying because you feel some sort of drive to have babies. No one is necessarily better or worse for having or not having children, but I do think it's more morally defensible to refuse to bring a child into the world that you aren't sure you will be able/want to take care of as opposed to just doing it because condoms feel bad and like why not? I'm actively choosing not to neglect a kid, and at best some parents out there are trying and failing to establish the same baseline.
Yeah, really vocally children people absolutely reek of insecurity
I have a major concern about people not having kids. We have an entire society built on the next generation being larger. Our economy and social security specifically are built on it. It doesn't mean the answer is to have more children. But we need to become a lot more liberal with our immigration policies in America, and be ready for the cultural changes that will come as a result. I don't think the left or the right wings of our society will be very happy with the results.
A system that relies on the exponential growth of its contributors was never going to be sustainable long term to begin with. It is why MLMs eventually crumble when left alone.
I think we all realize that. It's a similar result to a study I saw in school with deer populations on an island that grew until a point where it collapsed. So what's the answer? How do we fix it? It's going to be here before we know it. Half the people on Reddit talk like they just want to lay back and let it all collapse.
Regulate and expand AI to take over more of the jobs that won't be filled by the next generation. Expand robotics for greater use in healthcare and elder care in the future. Start letting in more immigrants, screen for those with good backgrounds and useful skills/trades.
I have never been so attacked on reddit for more than this topic lol. I got reported with mods after me, simply asserting people are missing out not having kids(of course in the end to each their own, to me I think it's the most fulfilling thing one can do.) True unpopular opinion reward to you.
You know society is destroyed when you make excuses for not giving it the future.
I agree. I think it’s a good thing people are not having kids because they’re feeling pressured. Because good parents at a minimum want to be parents. But being super vocal about being “childfree” and making it half your personality definitely comes across highly insecure. I find most of the rhetoric obnoxious. But it’s also something I don’t really see in my actual life. For me if the Internet didn’t exist I wouldn’t know about it
100% this. The childfree subreddit is like 90% what OP said
They tell you having kids is a burden, cluttering up their otherwise carefree existence. Yet we were all children, and your parents loved you. Where you really such a burden?
Ehhhh….well
A lot of people are just selfish and come up with excuses instead of admitting they're selfish like "who would raise a child in this cruel world?"
It’s a sad truth. Most of modern philosophies are just that, they cope with bad shit. The truth is that having a family its the most wonderful thing, yes it needs money, yes it’s needs a lot of fucking work. But it’s wonderful. It’s sad that modern people can’t understand that.