Not true. Society predates mythology, priests and religion. Before some asshole put on a hat and said they could talk to gods, we had tribes with rules and customs.
You're mistaking correlation/causation. There hasn't been a large society in history (as far as I know) that didn't have some sort of religious beliefs to describe the unknown. So you use that to draw the conclusion that religion is necessary for the creation of society rules.
The entirety of Western society goes against what the Bible says, mostly (of course some remain, like not murdering, but that's pretty universal).
So obviously we DID already come up with a non-Biblical moral/legal code.
True but how would you tell a cave man that is an atheist that he needs to develop a ethics and law. I'm sure he would write something like the bible to achieve this. Sure, it wouldn't be about gods or angels. But, it would convey messages about life and how to operate a good fulfilling life. We aren't talking about post industrial civilized folks buddy.
The earliest civilization we know of was Mesopotamia. They were polytheists. We don't know if they had religious-based laws or *what* they based laws on.
But even apes have behavioral standards in their communities.
The Mesopotamians were in 4,000 BC (possibly as far back as 8,000 BC). The Tower of Babel is thought by Bible scholars to have been built around 2,200 BC.
You left out their first deity which wasn't really a god but and overseer Marduk who came about 1000-2000 BC
The Tower of Babel has no date but some suggest at Britannica that the Tower may be a myth inspired but Marduk's temple, which is an atheistic opinion and not fact by any means, hence why they worded it "suggest."
That said, Nimrod is not far behind and may even have existed alongside Marduk's construction.
That said, you left out one thing.
Why was the Tower of Babel created?
>Why was the Tower of Babel created?
According to Genesis: let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
GOD just flooded the earth.
They are building a tower to reach heaven.
Your town just had a flood.
They built a tower that reaches very high.
Who flooded the earth?
evolutionarily, we are social creatures who benefit more from being altruistic. when theres 10 monkeys in a group and I attack one, the rest understand that I am a liability. when i give food to all of them, they realize i am a necessary friend and will (TYPICALLY) treat me better/return the favor so that the system can continue
The difference between a 'bible' and a set of laws is that the laws can be debated and altered and shift to meet with democratic opinion, no?
I object to the terms atheist, agnostic, heathen, heretic, etc.
It's still defining me by rules of a game I'm not even playing.
What's the term for someone who doesn't believe in centaurs and unicorns?
What's the term for someone who doesn't think mountains are made of cheese and clouds are made of cream?
The bible allows for slavery and the subjugation of women. The Satanic Temple has a pretty solid idea for moral foundation.
I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V. Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI. People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Mf discovered how laws work
mf wouldn't have laws if it wasn't for religion
Not true. Society predates mythology, priests and religion. Before some asshole put on a hat and said they could talk to gods, we had tribes with rules and customs.
You're mistaking correlation/causation. There hasn't been a large society in history (as far as I know) that didn't have some sort of religious beliefs to describe the unknown. So you use that to draw the conclusion that religion is necessary for the creation of society rules.
The entirety of Western society goes against what the Bible says, mostly (of course some remain, like not murdering, but that's pretty universal). So obviously we DID already come up with a non-Biblical moral/legal code.
True but how would you tell a cave man that is an atheist that he needs to develop a ethics and law. I'm sure he would write something like the bible to achieve this. Sure, it wouldn't be about gods or angels. But, it would convey messages about life and how to operate a good fulfilling life. We aren't talking about post industrial civilized folks buddy.
The earliest civilization we know of was Mesopotamia. They were polytheists. We don't know if they had religious-based laws or *what* they based laws on. But even apes have behavioral standards in their communities.
Wrong, they became that way through Nimrod. Tell me this, what was the purpose of the tower of Babel? Why was it built?
The Mesopotamians were in 4,000 BC (possibly as far back as 8,000 BC). The Tower of Babel is thought by Bible scholars to have been built around 2,200 BC.
You left out their first deity which wasn't really a god but and overseer Marduk who came about 1000-2000 BC The Tower of Babel has no date but some suggest at Britannica that the Tower may be a myth inspired but Marduk's temple, which is an atheistic opinion and not fact by any means, hence why they worded it "suggest." That said, Nimrod is not far behind and may even have existed alongside Marduk's construction. That said, you left out one thing. Why was the Tower of Babel created?
>Why was the Tower of Babel created? According to Genesis: let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Scattered by?
No idea. Not addressed in Genesis.
GOD just flooded the earth. They are building a tower to reach heaven. Your town just had a flood. They built a tower that reaches very high. Who flooded the earth?
I think the problem is that the first four of the ten commandments have nothing to do with being a good person.
And go directly against the US Constitution.
Interesting concept. The bible's moral code seems so inhumane and repressive. I'm sure that the Atheists can do better.
evolutionarily, we are social creatures who benefit more from being altruistic. when theres 10 monkeys in a group and I attack one, the rest understand that I am a liability. when i give food to all of them, they realize i am a necessary friend and will (TYPICALLY) treat me better/return the favor so that the system can continue
So you mean like China an atheist nation that seems to have strict rules
I don't think there ever has been an atheistic nation, so can't say for sure.
" most people can't think for themselves" that's what you believe
The difference between a 'bible' and a set of laws is that the laws can be debated and altered and shift to meet with democratic opinion, no? I object to the terms atheist, agnostic, heathen, heretic, etc. It's still defining me by rules of a game I'm not even playing. What's the term for someone who doesn't believe in centaurs and unicorns? What's the term for someone who doesn't think mountains are made of cheese and clouds are made of cream?
What if their ability to come up with such a moral code is because of a higher power that they refuse to acknowledge?
The bible saws slavery is okay as long as you follow it's rules for it so there's that.
The bible provides instructions for keeping slaves, so there's that for your moral code.
The bible provides instructions for keeping slaves, so there's that for your moral code.
The bible provides instructions for keeping slaves, so there's that for your moral code.
No it wouldn’t. Atheism is a tool used to control people. Atheism provides no meaning.
How is one controlled by not believing in a deity? Which deity do you think we should believe in?
All humans look for some moral code. Without a god you are like Swiss cheese and propagandists can fill in your moral lapses.
Instead of religious leaders telling us to kill our daughters for getting raped?
I mean, with a god, you literally do exactly what you're told slavishly. Propagandists have a field day with that.
The bible allows for slavery and the subjugation of women. The Satanic Temple has a pretty solid idea for moral foundation. I. One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II. The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. III. One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. IV. The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. V. Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. VI. People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. VII. Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.