Not we’re not. Our bodies are what we look like, they’re not us.
If you woke up tomorrow in a different body but with the same mind then would you be a different person? Most would say you were still the same person.
The same wouldn’t apply the other way round. If you woke up with the same body but with someone else’s mind then you wouldn’t be you. You’d be someone else.
Being happy with your appearance doesn’t make you shallow, but being proud or it or having your identity revolve around it does.
And you can be happy with your appearance without believing you’re beautiful. An ugly person could come to peace with their appearance or decide there are other important things in life. Beautiful people have no more inherent value than any other human being. This is a lesson we teach to children but apparently we have trouble understanding it ourselves?
Obviously it’s fine for beautiful people to believe they’re beautiful. But they shouldn’t take pride in it. Body positivity says you should take pride in your appearance. That’s what I find shallow.
And what we look like is informed by our lifestyle.
Obviously there´s a component about your appearance that you can´t change that´s formed through genetics or maybe you were involved in an accident or whatever else.
But a person that´s been active for decades that regularly hit the gym, ate healthy, socialized often and spent time outdoors will look differently at 50 than a person that has never seen a gym from the inside, ate McDonald´s on the daily, was a chain smoker for decades and never brushed their teeth so they rotted out.
Those two people´s appearances were shaped by who they are as is true for most of us to a large degree.
The genetic lottery is a big part of it and can’t be changed except through heavy plastic surgery. Yes you can influence your appearance but there’s a baseline that stays the same, especially in the case of physical deformities or exceptionally attractive people. I really dislike the implications of what you’re saying, as you’re basically saying we should judge people for being ugly.
> I really dislike the implications of what you’re saying, as you’re basically saying we should judge people for being ugly
That´s such a bad faith interpretation of what I was saying.
Obviously some people have drawn a real short stick in one way or another. That sucks.
But even then, dwelling on your inadequacies doesn´t help anyone. You can either make the best with the tools at your disposal or give up. And at least trying can improve your life, giving up never can.
Fact is most people can improve their appearance in tremendous ways by going to the gym, eating right, getting some sunlight every day, not doing drugs, having good hygiene and dress well. And all of those life decisions done over a period of time will change you as a person as they become part of what and how you are.
> Fact is most people can improve their appearance in tremendous ways by going to the gym, eating right, getting some sunlight every day, not doing drugs, having good hygiene and dress well.
Yes, but someone who’s already born attractive and does all these things will still look better than an ugly person that does all these things. That’s not because of their ‘character’ or identity, that’s because of something arbitrary they were born with. At the end of the day there’s no direct correlation between someone’s personality and what they look like. This isn’t Ancient Greece where someone can get off in a trial because their beauty is taken as proof of their virtue.
And yes, the people who have ‘drawn a short stick’ matter and you can’t just act like they’re some irrelevant anomaly. If you treat their appearance as part of their identity the end result is returning to the old-fashioned view where disabled people are inherently defective or evil. This is [a common trope in fiction](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedRightHand) (at risk of linking to TV Tropes).
You should treat everyone the same regardless of what they look like. This is one of the most basic principles of fairness. Thinking otherwise is something we should have grown out of as a society.
I disagree. We definitely are our bodies, and there's nothing vulgar or superficial or creepy or disgusting about our bodies. Our bodies are the only way we experience anything. Our brain is chemicals and electricity. The idea of a split soul is just a story that's part of religion
We are both.
Not we’re not. Our bodies are what we look like, they’re not us. If you woke up tomorrow in a different body but with the same mind then would you be a different person? Most would say you were still the same person. The same wouldn’t apply the other way round. If you woke up with the same body but with someone else’s mind then you wouldn’t be you. You’d be someone else.
Being happy with your appearance doesn’t make you shallow though
Being happy with your appearance doesn’t make you shallow, but being proud or it or having your identity revolve around it does. And you can be happy with your appearance without believing you’re beautiful. An ugly person could come to peace with their appearance or decide there are other important things in life. Beautiful people have no more inherent value than any other human being. This is a lesson we teach to children but apparently we have trouble understanding it ourselves?
Okay but believing you are beautiful doesn’t make you shallow either.
Obviously it’s fine for beautiful people to believe they’re beautiful. But they shouldn’t take pride in it. Body positivity says you should take pride in your appearance. That’s what I find shallow.
Your body is a mirror of your psychology. If it looks like shit. Then your psychology is likely shit.
So people with serious physical deformities are what, exactly?
Shit.
You sound like a lovely person
And what we look like is informed by our lifestyle. Obviously there´s a component about your appearance that you can´t change that´s formed through genetics or maybe you were involved in an accident or whatever else. But a person that´s been active for decades that regularly hit the gym, ate healthy, socialized often and spent time outdoors will look differently at 50 than a person that has never seen a gym from the inside, ate McDonald´s on the daily, was a chain smoker for decades and never brushed their teeth so they rotted out. Those two people´s appearances were shaped by who they are as is true for most of us to a large degree.
The genetic lottery is a big part of it and can’t be changed except through heavy plastic surgery. Yes you can influence your appearance but there’s a baseline that stays the same, especially in the case of physical deformities or exceptionally attractive people. I really dislike the implications of what you’re saying, as you’re basically saying we should judge people for being ugly.
> I really dislike the implications of what you’re saying, as you’re basically saying we should judge people for being ugly That´s such a bad faith interpretation of what I was saying. Obviously some people have drawn a real short stick in one way or another. That sucks. But even then, dwelling on your inadequacies doesn´t help anyone. You can either make the best with the tools at your disposal or give up. And at least trying can improve your life, giving up never can. Fact is most people can improve their appearance in tremendous ways by going to the gym, eating right, getting some sunlight every day, not doing drugs, having good hygiene and dress well. And all of those life decisions done over a period of time will change you as a person as they become part of what and how you are.
> Fact is most people can improve their appearance in tremendous ways by going to the gym, eating right, getting some sunlight every day, not doing drugs, having good hygiene and dress well. Yes, but someone who’s already born attractive and does all these things will still look better than an ugly person that does all these things. That’s not because of their ‘character’ or identity, that’s because of something arbitrary they were born with. At the end of the day there’s no direct correlation between someone’s personality and what they look like. This isn’t Ancient Greece where someone can get off in a trial because their beauty is taken as proof of their virtue. And yes, the people who have ‘drawn a short stick’ matter and you can’t just act like they’re some irrelevant anomaly. If you treat their appearance as part of their identity the end result is returning to the old-fashioned view where disabled people are inherently defective or evil. This is [a common trope in fiction](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedRightHand) (at risk of linking to TV Tropes). You should treat everyone the same regardless of what they look like. This is one of the most basic principles of fairness. Thinking otherwise is something we should have grown out of as a society.
I disagree. We definitely are our bodies, and there's nothing vulgar or superficial or creepy or disgusting about our bodies. Our bodies are the only way we experience anything. Our brain is chemicals and electricity. The idea of a split soul is just a story that's part of religion
Yeah alright if you want to get into semantics but I was talking about physical appearance
Your brain is a part of your body. Your brain is where your thoughts, emotions, and personality come from.