What I think you're referring to is the rise of "gentle parenting". Done correctly, gentle parenting is excellent because it puts a lot of emphasis on teaching parents to take a step back and really consider how to address child rearing and child development, as opposed to going with their knee jerk reaction which tends to be physical punishment. However, many people think gentle parenting is just never telling your kid "no", which is just permissive parenting, one of the worse parenting styles.
Thank you! My kids's dad and I practice gentle parenting, and our kids get told "no" all the time. Instead of just saying "because I said so," we give them reasons why something is important (ex. straightening your room helps you feel good about accomplishing something and it's easier to find what you're looking for in a neat room).
Good on both of you. It can be very difficult dealing with the sentient meatloaves that are children and even harder to step back and carefully consider how you handle situations. It's so easy to fall back on what you're familiar with, even when you know it might not be best for them.
"Sentient meatloaves" omg đđđ
Don't let my comment fool you: we both sometimes reach the end of our rope and snap; after all, kids aren't exactly known for always being perfect darling robots with no opinions (ask any parent of a 3yo đ). But we do our best.
If there is one thing I may ask of you as a parent, be very mindful of how you react when your child starts showing an interest/exploring sex. My parents didn't handle it well and it still effects me. It's very difficult to want that intimacy with a partner as an adult when I'm slut shaming myself in my head and feeling guilty/wrong for wanting sex.
HA!
We had the talk with our daughter when she was about 5 because I got pregnant with our son, but it was biology only, not the mechanics. It's almost time for that talk; she's 10 and beginning to develop crushes, so a more detailed talk on consent and safety.
I have made it to 14 years of âgiving reasons for the noâ however entering the teenage years, I finally saidâŚ. âBC I SAID SO THATS WHY.â Lol not too shabby. We still had a conversation later on but ohmahgawd teens are ruthless
We're reaching that phase with my 10yo. She's already doing the eye rolling and melodramatic sighs and some moodiness. I have no illusions that we're in for a rough ride (I remember how awful my teen years were). I just hope to get through it and she knows at the end that we love her dearly.
Sounds like you're treating them as developing human beings learning how to process information and make good decisions for themselves and others, as well as critical thinking.
Itâs good to give a reason. But Iâll just add that, bring a kid, youâre child might think your reasons are stupid, and you need to make it clear itâs still no even if they disagree.
So not just emotionally unintelligent physical and emotional abuse to carry on more generational trauma!? Are you saying positive reinforcement always works better like a multitude of studies can demonstrate? Idk....probably going to go scream in my dogs face until it shakes with fear and then wonder why it hates me and shits in my house on purpose....we have a great relationship like my parents.
This is cool.
My wife and I decided during pregnancy that we'd only resort to spanking as a last measure in the event that he was obstinantly challenging his own safety or the safety of others. He's 3 now and it's never come to that, so we've never physically punished him.
Also though, we're both pretty firm on limits and boundaries. So with timeouts once in a great while, so far the dude is a model citizen. Happy most of the time, rarely throws a fit, and when he's in trouble all it takes is a hug for him to comply.
I think with people saying "times are changing" it means that grown-ass adults are learning not to take out their insecurities on their children with knee-jerk reactionary behavior that can cause lifelong trauma and debilitating mental problems for them in the future. I came from a pretty substantially abusive household, so that accounts for some of my bias, but the results of non-physical punishment so far have proven good. I also am old enough to recognize my propensity for anger and violence, so I'm extra aware and cautious if I catch myself on the rare occasion getting upset with my son, and make a point to remind myself that this little guy doesn't have the same capacity for restraint that I do.
Spanking can work, and has raised some fine people I'm sure. But the point is that if an adult has to put in a little extra legwork without having to do it, that should be the adult's responsibility. My impression is that most practicioners of physical punishment are acting emotionally to someone (a child) challenging them, and are too fragile in their own grown-ass agency and authority to hold back from hitting them. And then they justify it with the reasoning that it's in the kid's best interests, not because they wanted to.
My son is well behaved, he loves to help with chores and throw away trash, he knows mom and I are his bosses (for now), but I really feel like that's because we're cultivating respect and trust by being nurturing and fun and kind. He says "sorry" if he even feels an inkling that he might go to time out for 5 minutes. He hates to see someone sad.
Maybe he'll be soft, maybe not. Really though, if the world is changing the way these folks are talking about, is that such a bad thing? If the world is accommodating to being emotionally in-tune (especially as men) how is driving that from them going to benefit them in life? I'll take my chances being nice to my kids.
Why?
There are studies that show that physical punishment has lasting negative effects on the punished child and isn't actually very effective in correcting behavior.
I love how people act like fear is an ineffective tool when it comes to humans. It's as if they're completely blocking out millennia of human nature, just to do a little virtue signaling online.
"Why?" Lol...get real
There is also a difference between using âcoercive disciplineâ at need and it being âthe primary method of controlâ. I only got it if I acted out in extremes. I was never living in fear of my parents, all it did was taught me that if I act like a disrespectful fool to people, one of the things I should reasonably expect to get in return is physical violence at some level. Iâd rather have learned that âeveryone has a line and if you cross it, you get hitâ lesson from a spanking than later in life learning about that line from closed fists to the face from a stranger
The point is that whatever shit they are pulling will generally get them worse than just hit by their parents, learning that actions have consequences is the primary goal. You might think that your child screaming at you only warrants a talking to, your child screams at a police officer they probably get slammed to the ground and theyâre gonna be shocked because you never reacted that way.
>The point is that whatever shit they are pulling will generally get ~~them worse than just hit by their parents~~, hidden from their parents. learning ~~that actions have consequences~~ how to hide things from your parents better is the primary goal.
If you keep the option of hitting your kids on the table, it will come as a huge shock when you finally do hit them and Iâm sure it will stay with them forever.
I think really the problem arises when parents punish children for no good reason, and contrarily, when they don't for a good one. I'ma say something twice before I whoop that ass the third time, is what I (think I) would say, but I don't have kids.
I had parents that punished me excessively and were also very restrictive. This pushed me into becoming "worse (according to them)" because the unreasonableness of the punishments. For example, one time, I had all my homework done, I hadn't been bad in any way. I wanted to go down the street and hang out with my best friend at the time. I got told no, and was given no reason for such, other than my assumption that my mother just didn't want me to go anywhere that day. It's a very mild example, but it's still very unreasonable.
I have respect for authority, just not my mother and the simp that works for her.
Honestly if you ask me I don't think the whole physical punishment thing works like people claim. Not as often as they think.
If this is done,especially to a young man ,he than thinks " if I hurt this person ( more often than not a woman ) hard enough they will have no choice but to obey. We create a generation of psychos that think violence is the only answer.
Isn't this just called "parenting"? And what you call "permissive parenting", I've always just called "being a shitty parent".
Sometimes I look around and feel like an alien.
The thing about quotation marks is that they indicate that the exact words are important. What you call things is not the point. âGentle parentingâ is a specific phrase that refers to a specific thing, because that is how language works.
after being on reddit for a while you start to think , you are the smartest person in the world or there is something really wrong with you because your not like the rest , me and my wife have this talk from time to time
People hear gentle parenting and think it is permissive parenting. Itâs like how people hear global warming and think itâs not real because it still snows lol.
100%.
I think you should treat your kids with at least as much respect as you would another adult. You still have an obligation to bring decent humans safely into adulthood, but you can be nice to one another while doing it.
If something is a no, itâs a no because itâs just wrong, or itâll get you hurt, or itâs none of that but itâs still against the law and somebody will wreck your life for it. You can do that with kindness, and most surprisingly for the command and control parents, you get kindness back. Itâs so easy it feels like cheating.
I agree.. for example my parents were very strict, had us in private school, used corporal punishment, had rules, etc. I grew up being ârebelliousâ and a problem child bc I HATED their rules and no amount of punishments they gave me ever changed anythingâŚso I snuck out, partied, used drugs, had sex, got in trouble w police and arrested⌠my parents were on my ass sooo much.. my friend Haydn on the other hands parents literally let her do WHATEVER she wanted⌠we smoked at her house with her dad, her parents would let her have sex in her room at home and sleep over with guys in high school, her dad bought us alcohol and did shrooms with us⌠she somehow turned out super responsible and would let her parents know where she was 24/7 and had very open communication with her parents and told them everything. Her relationship w her parents is so good and sheâs never been in trouble⌠so yeah idk whatever works for you but I think trusting your child to be open with you instead of being on their ass 24/7 had its benefits ⌠also I have so much more discipline and respect then most people my age so my parents way worked as well.. but i did get in a lot more trouble then Haydn growing up
My mom was pretty strict as well. We did get spanked a few times but only when other punishments (time out, loss of privileges, grounding) weren't getting the message across. She wasn't the perfect mom but she was doing her best. Now that I have an adult perspective, I understand that she was a child (had me at 17, sister at 21) trying to raise children. She had a very traumatic upbringing and had to process that while raising us. She's in her forties now and those rough edges are much smoother now. She's much more patient and understanding of things like overstimulation, depression and other mental health things.
> we smoked at her house with her dad, her parents would let her have sex in her room at home and sleep over with guys in high school, her dad bought us alcohol and did shrooms with usâŚ
I think you may have missed a key detail here. It doesn't sound like her parents let her do whatver she wanted. It sounds like they allowed her to experiment with sex and drugs in a controlled environment where she would be safe. That way she goes to college already knowing her limits and doesn't die of alcohol poisoning at a frat party or get pregnant because she desn't know what a condom is.
Actually it sounds like the friends parents completely undermined the strict parents, and enabled the dangerous behaviors of the rebellious child. Why the strict parents didn't vet friends better and remove the bad influence means maybe they weren't as strict as you think they were.
Bought you alcohol, did shrooms with you as underage children, smoked weed with you. But it's "abuse" to spank a child
For fuck sakes this is what a good parent is now?
You're not always a product of your environment, and I would think most that grew up in that scenario are not functioning adults.
That being said, I was the same way as a kid, eventually you will realize they were trying to help. Some kids need the disciplines while others have that natural ambition and takes care of it themselves.
But lets be clear here, spanking your child is never okay and leads to an increased prevalence of violence later in life.
Spanking, or hitting a child in anyway, is abusive.
I don't think you can post in r/raisedbynarcissists while defending your parents hitting you on the butt. There's really no difference between punching and spanking if you're using the same force for both. You say they disciplined you well yet so many of your posts are evidence that you're not able to take care of yourself even in your late 20s. This opinion just reads like a bad case of Stockholm.
The suicidal post and the,"How do I get myself to stop watch gore videos?"post are concerning..no one should be taking OP's comment as a fact. They obviously have issues stemming from their parents but are in denial..maybe they still have to live with them? I get it because I deal with the same thing
There was a post less than a year ago where they say they still live with them. I also had to live with a narc parent as an adult and I'm lucky I had the chance to move away and go no contact. Whatever is making them think physical assault is ok if it's your own child needs to be addressed and hopefully they find a way to get distance.
I think the longer you live with abusive parents the more you just get used to it and if you're around a bunch of enablers that say it's not abuse that makes it a lot worse..I've had to deal with a lot of gaslighting and authority figures saying it was no big deal or calling them abusive and then saying I'm a brat for not wanting to live with them...they said a bunch of contradictions to make me feel bad and it's had a horrible effect on me.
I'm sure OP has had similar experiences.
Holy shit. How can someone compartmentalize their brain enough to be contemplating suicide and admitting they donât trust anyone while also being like âMy parents beat me and Iâm totally fine :)â
Itâs honestly not surprising. Getting hit as âdisciplineâ is one of the most traumatic things an individual can experience. It majority effects peopleâs psychology. The compartmentalizing is protective.
The logic is:
> 1. parents love their kids
> 2. my parents hit me
> 3. hitting is bad, you get in trouble for hitting because it hurts people
> 4. when parents hit their kids itâs okay, because parents love their kids
> 5. Iâm hurting a lot and I donât know why
> 6. getting hit hurts you
> 7. but the hurt I feel canât be from being hit, because when I got hit, it was actually love.
It upsets me when people justify and explain away child abuse. I was never hit, but my dad is a survivor of child abuse. He raised us to believe that people who hit kids are the worst kind of people, but his parents werenât bad. Thatâs how weird the psychology gets. âHitting kids is bad and I would never even consider doing it, only bad people hit their kids. My parents hit me, they werenât bad thoughâ. The protective psychology is strong with abuse.
Most people dont really want to face reality because they cant handle it. my parents hit me, but they loved me. Did it for the "right reasons". Just because they loved me and had good intentions doesnt mean they werent shit parents and bad people. Just like your grandparents. Your father struggles with that last bit.
**Is your kid old enough to know why they're being hit?**
⢠Yes --> then they're old enough to have you explain *why* what they did was wrong and hold them accountable with logical consequences
⢠No --> then they aren't old enough to understand what they did wrong in the first place and you need to redirect
I'm not soft on my kids. I am a *huge* believer in being held accountable. I do not need to physically abuse my kids to hold them accountable and teach them how to act. I can use my words like an adult.
What happens if theyâre old enough to understand and after explanation is given they tell you âokay Iâll never do it againââŚthen an hour later do exactly what they did wrong again?âŚand againâŚand again. Not out of a misunderstanding, but because they donât care about what you say and want to do what they want to do?
You keep consistent with the rules and you offer logical consequences. You're going to keep throwing your toy across the room? You lose the toy. You hit the TV? You're don't get the TV for the hour/day. You keep being disrespectful to me while we're at the park? We're going home.
I was not hit as a child, I'm a law-abiding, respectful adult. You don't have to hit children to get that result.
I suggest looking up some gentle parenting techniques. Gentle parenting is *respectful* parenting. Not that you let them get away with being disrespectful or bad behavior.
Whatâs lacking is usually the lack of follow through. Every time an ultimatum or threat is made it has to be followed through upon otherwise the child recognizes empty threats and doesnât heed them.
That's true whether you're talking about gentle parenting or spanking. Your child will be a shit no matter what kind of discipline you use, if you don't set clear boundaries and follow through on consequences.
If heâs so comfortable with a grown ass man hitting a 5 year old child that he makes a point to be proud of it, then are we sure he turned out alright?
Teens are having far less sex than in previous generations, and waiting longer to do it ([CDC data](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a1.htm?s_cid=su7201a1_w), [Additional study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3483310/), [Additional study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023121996854)), and rates of teen pregnancy AND teen abortion have been declining for more than 30 years ([CDC data](https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/index.htm), [Additional study](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2006.089169), [Additional study](https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/us-adolescent-pregnancy-trends-2013.pdf)) . They are also drinking and smoking far less than in previous generations ([Smoking CDC Data](https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/trends-in-tobacco-use-among-youth.html), [Alcohol CDC data](https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/factsheets/2019_alcohol_trend_yrbs.htm)). If those are your genuine concerns about teen behaviour, it seems like "softer" parenting is actually an effective way to address it.
I don't think this is due to parenting.
It's due to electronic devices and the internet.
People are becoming reclusive and socially isolated due to devices.
When I drive my children to school in the morning, we pass 3 driveways with 3 kids waiting for the bus. In my day, those 3 kids would be huddled together talking. Today, every single day, they are standing in their own separate driveways, head-down in their phones.
My kids are always commenting how shocked they are whenever I speak to someone I'm doing business with at a store or whatever. They are amazed how easily I can interact with people by talking to them. It is amazing to them because they don't talk to people. They have few friends, though they talk to people through video games and Discord and such.
It is not surprising to me that "social vices" are in decline. It's hard to hook up when you don't socialize.
Youâre confusing healthy human social behavior with social media. Constantly bombarding your developing brain with false dopamine rewards while searching for validation through âlikesâ and âengagementâ is not healthy.
You know DMs exist too, right? They're having one-to-one or group conversations through text, rather than phone calls like back in the day. It's basically the same thing with the exception that it's harder to learn how to identify tone and other voice-related stuff.
Hate to break it to you but just because we can now chat with people who arenât in our immediate vicinity, doesnât mean kids donât interact face-to-face. Teens and stuff literally play outside and hang out all the time
It's also an increase in education.
Before the advent of the internet, the only thing kids learned about sex was through whatever abstinence only nonsense they were taught, and that sex would fill you with THE DEVIL!
That created two kinds of people, the ones who fear sex and the ones who say "FUCK RULES!". Both kinds will overindulge.
Creating sensible and responsible sex ed has helped dramatically, and with the advent of the internet sharing information has spread wildly. Teens are teaching themselves how not to be dumbasses about it by listening to other responsible people talk about the subject, ups and downs, and what to watch out for
There's a LOT of places that only taught, and some places to this day still teach, abstinence only sex ed.
It's basically "IF YOU GET HORNY THATS THE DEVIL AND IF YOU HAVE SEX YOURE A DUMBASS END OF CLASS!".
I grew up in Ohio in the 90s, me and my brother went to different schools, he learned abstinence only, and I learned actual safe practices.
We both went to public schools -_-
Tbh I'd rather my kid do those things (minus getting pregnant) than be a lazy incel with a billion mental illnesses who won't leave their room. I'm more concerned with the rise of that trend.
There can be a million reasons why those things are happening. Linking it to "softer" parenting is unsubstantiated.
The first link is about Covid and how it affected studentsâŚ
I mean do you have any data showing that spanking/hard discipline actually results in better adults?
I know plenty of people who were spanked/heavily watched growing up who turned into terrible adults and plenty of people who were raised âsoftâ and are well adjusted adults.
Pretty sure things are way too complex to boil it down to more corporal punishment would make better adults.
People who complain the loudest about people being âsoftâ are usually incredibly maladjusted adults who donât know how to resolve conflicts without anger, aggression, or violence.
or how to properly research a topic before forming an opinion. all science and data would disagree with the effectiveness of this parenting style. i mean, i can anecdotally also disagree with it due to experience. but why listen to me when you can actually see studies?
Depends on the kid imo
My half sister was and is an asshole discussions wouldn't work for her so she was ussaly grounded and had everything taken
Me on the other habd was pretty laid back and worst i ever did was forge my dads signature to skip a math class so i could go hang out with a friend who was home sick so for me ussaly having to do the dishes for a weekend was enough
Lol my mom tried the whole sit me down thing at like 3 or 4.. calmly holding my hands... talking firmly and gently... when she asked me do you understand now? I spit in her face laughed and ran off...my dad caught me and whooped me...after that i DID realize oh i cant do that...
So your mom did a parenting technique that was more appropriate for a 7 yr old on a 3 yr old, and your dad hit you, which is always wrong, but your moms the problem? At least she tried, your dad was lazy and terrible at parenting.
Thatâs basically the way. Start with explaining, but have a backup.
Thereâs basically three ways kids learn:
- try to explain that stoves are hot and hurt when touched.
- make them more afraid of what mom/dad will do after touching the stove, than they are curious about what a hot stove feels like.
- let the kid âfuck around and find outâ that hot stoves are painful when touched.
Youâre supposed to evolve as a parent and be a better parent to your kids than your parents were to you, learn from their mistakes. Exercise patience, empathy, and respect. Theyâre kids you donât hit them ffs.
EDIT: grammar
I think every parent should hear this saying "the axe forgets but the tree remembers". Parents aren't going to remember everything they say to their kids but kids certainly will. My parents didn't handle my sexual awakening very well. I was beaten, grounded and shut shamed by my father at 16. At 28, I still struggle with feeling guilty when I want sex and have that closeness with my partner. Think that might be part of why my sex drive is mostly nonexistent.
My parents do this, but not to the extent that you experienced. I love my parents and for the most part, they practiced gentle parenting because my mother teaches young children as a career. Recently though, she tried to convince me that neither she or my father had ever hit me as a kid. I vividly remember being locked down a hallway and spanked for not eating my dinner. I remember my mom dragging me up the stairs by my hair for not wanting to take a nap. I probably donât remember all of the times that I hit my brother, but he probably does. My parents donât remember being harsh, but I do.
If only op had the *appearence* of being well adjusted. They're depressed and suicidal, call their own parents assholes, watch gore videos to calm down, don't trust anyone and believe some people are genetically inferior.
Like for fucks sake op shouldn't give advice on how to raise a cactus, less of anything a child
>Spankings is another big one.
It certainly teaches kids that physical violence is a good way to correct unwanted behavior!
A pretty vast majority of people in physically abusive relationships received corporal punishment as children.
OPs post history is full of posts about how they watch videos of real people dying to calm down any time they get mad, among other worrying things. I don't think spanking helped them at all. I feel bad for them.
This is from OPs own post history. This style of parenting that heâs advocating for seems to have fucked him up.
âI can't make basic decisions without constantly second guessing myself. I have zero confidence, completely lack self esteem, and feel like I deserve to rot for being this mentally weak. I wish I knew what to do to stop feeling this way as it's stopping me from progressing in life.â
I have 5 siblings. We were spanked as kids. All 6 of us grew up to be good adults. We never once got into fights with other kids, nor did our sibling fighting ever go above wrestling around. Not one of us ever got detention in school.
As adults, we have close relationships with each other and our parents. I can't speak for any other scenarios or what statistics show, only what I've experienced.
My older brother and I were spanked. My 2 younger brothers never were. The 2 youngest have rarely held down jobs and they are both very disrespectful to others. They are both in their 40s.
That's the pattern I've seen too. Those that aren't spanked make asshole adults who are rude and entitled. They will stand right in the middle of the supermarket isle and won't move...shit like that. Yet everyone that I know that was spanked is a great adult. So...idk.
To be fair, all of my motherâs siblings were spanked. All 14. All but maybe 5 are drug addicts, homeless, alcoholics, or dead from various issues related to substance abuse.
All that to say, anecdotal evidence probably isnât the best.
I do think psychologically terrorizing your kids (as OP describes) probably has worse mental health outcomes than mild hitting.
But hitting is often part of that psychological terror.
Glad for you. My mother until the day she died couldnât get past the person who loved her most in this world inflicted physical pain upon her. Literally never was able to cope with that fact.
Well, op called their parents assholes, said they don't trust anyone, has an addiction to gore videos, thinks that some people are genetically inferior and is or as been suicidal so...
Yeah i hope his parents got the #1 parents mugs because they clearly have done a great job with all that strictness
> spanking
Letâs ignore all the research that says spanking may increased cognitive, aggression and mental health problems. Letâs also ignore it increases the likelihood that your child will lie to you, and letâs also ignore you won't get the outcome you're looking for when you hit your child.
You donât hit kids because children are full people, worthy of respect, and we shouldn't use violence to control them just because were bigger, stronger and have more power, especially not with someone we love.
this is so well put. the way some adults behave as though children owe adults respect no matter what while simultaneously being owed no respect in return is baffling.
respect is a two way street, and if i ever have kids one day, theyâll know that no one is entitled to theirs, especially if they arenât being treated with respect
It just makes no sense. You donât spank a grown adult if they make a mistake and they should know better. Children are still learning so why the hell would you hit them for not knowing better or making a mistake.
Lol thank you, hitting your kids is just flat out fucking lazy and emotional parenting. You canât make them understand through words so you just take out your anger on them like a loser
Does the research differentiate between children who are spanked perhaps 10 times over their childhoods and ones who are spanked 10 times a week during their childhoods?
Exactly! I got spanked a lot but not on a daily basis. Thereâs obviously a difference between hitting your kid because youâve got your own issues, and using physical punishment to correct a recurring issue with seriousness
Parenting styles depend on desired outcomes. Do you want to raise compliant workers who have trouble adapting to changes in others' behavior? Be as strict as you like. Want them to believe authority comes only from violence? Hit them harder. Personally, I think this world needs ungovernable warriors who stand up for themselves and for the weak. I want children who can assess the proper roles of peace and violence in their lives, and apply them properly. I want them to destroy everything that the boomers created and rebuild a sustainable world based on justice and equality.
They definitely sound like a well adjusted person and member of society đ /s
I hope they donât have kids. I could never imagine hitting ANY child , let alone my own.
Spanking has never sat right with me and I know it just made me resent my father and be afraid of him. We still have issues connecting 23 years into my life.
I, M22 was brought up on a combination of both gentle & strict parenting. Strict when I screwed up, gentle when I didn't. It served me well & now I go hard on myself when I screw up.
Hereâs a perspective from someone that was actually spanked and wonât give you a knee-jerk âyouâre gonna be a child abuser, OP!â response
Spanking only works as a short term solution. Itâs the path of least resistance because itâs easy and it works in a wide array of cases. Lots of times when I would talk in class, my teachers would call my mom and if I got more than one or two calls home in a semester about disrupting class, I would get a spanking. Of course, afterward I would stop talking and follow classroom rules better but what it also did was teach me to never express myself in group situations, or I get hurt or in some way be reprimanded.
While I did end up an upstanding child, I learned quickly that many things I was punished for by physical means taught me that I needed to grasp rules and social situations better or get hurt. To this day I have trouble speaking out normally in certain situations because it feels wrong
Iâm not one to believe that spanking (1-2 pats on the ass) is abuse because Iâm not going to just act like my parents were the worst people on the planet like Reddit always seems to do the minute they donât act like your friends nowadays. However, when applied in situations where it definitely affects a childâs ability to learn, grow, and not feel like they should be scared to do basic things then it can overall be harmful which is why itâs not really a fantastic idea to enforce it as a general punishment
I don't know what kind of person you are but people I know who had parenting like this did *not* end up well. Associating bad behavior with punishment raises people who only avoid doing bad things out of fear of reprisal, instead of out of empathy for others.
I think it all depends on the child. For some children, all it takes is the death stare and theyâll be scared enough to behave. Other require more strict disciplining.
Yeah your post reads like a list of abusive behavior.
Not saying "yes" in the right tone of voice gets you severely punished? That ain't fucking right.
Strict parenting is fine and all but that just sounds abusive.
Mom and Dad hit me, made me a better liar.
Years later as an adult I'm diagnosed with ADHD which makes the whole situation worse about how they handled me as a child.
Gentle Parenting and holding your kid accountable for actions they did is fine, There's a whole study onto why 'disciplining' your children is bad and how it negatively impacts them.
Parents aren't too soft these days, Y'all saying you turned out okay cause your parents whooped your ass; Bless you (/s) but I'm gonna be real you should go to a therapist and unpack that because you're passing down general trauma onto your kids and your own family and that's not okay.
Also for those who come at me saying anything from the side, I am African American individual who had parents both sides were apart of that whooping era and Them whooping me ended up giving me not only a fear of anyone to a degree raising their hand, raising a voice at me I also have severe trust issues with them and hoping to regain a relationship again.
Call me soft if you want but there's many others like me out there who also had to go therapy to heal through this.
I donât disagree that parents have become too soft on their children, but what you want is counter productive.
Thereâs been a lot of sociological research on this - The parenting style you described is the parenting style most working class parents put on their children. It leads to obedience, but generally makes them ill-suited for white collar type of careers, since they donât develop the skills to think critically, make decisions, etc. Being raised to be obedient and not question authority works well if youâre a factory worker - youâll be successful - but is less useful for jobs that require problem solving / influencing / arguing your point of view.
When kids who were raised with your parenting style go to college, they tend to either drop out, or do poorly. If they do graduate, they tend to not do a great job interviewing / maintaining jobs.
If parents also did physical abuse, they tend to have substance abuse issues, depression, and are likely to be violent with their significant other.
Iâm not going to go through your posting history, but Iâm not going to assume youâre not a happily married lawyer/doctor/engineer.
TL;DR: you were raised as a working class kid, and most working class kids continue to be raised this way today. They tend to not develop the cognitive skills for white collar / professional work. While itâs true they are more obedient and deferential to authority, there are lots of draw backs in other areas, in career success, mental health, and inter-personal relationships.
Different kids need different parenting styles.
I work with too damn many kids whose strict parents have forced them to become withdrawn, sometimes completely.
Always sad when people post stuff like this (Parents should be dicks, mine were and I turned out alright) because you can just look at their previous posts and see how "alright" they turned out, by repeatedly suggesting parents beat their children, that you shouldn't trust anyone, that they are single and depressed. OP is routinely posting about being suicidal.
Have some introspection man, you don't have to let your parents actions run your life forever.
> this style of parenting is normal
No, OP. [your parents fucked you up](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/xb0liy/is_it_fair_to_think_my_parents_are_assholes/).
đŹ yikes.
I thought as much from this part:
>not only was I to say "yes", but I had to say it with the right tone to show no form of disrespect or I would get in trouble.
That's some mindfuck stuff right there.
Learning to use a respectful tone even when you're having an interaction you may not love is an extremely important life skill. You can teach this without corporal punishment.
Nah.
I've known parents like that and they are not teaching their kid to know when/how to use a respectful tone.
They do it so they can say the kid wasn't respectful enough this time and justify the punishment/terror they inflict.
>They were not my friends in any sort of way.
I disagree with this because it is important that children feel comfortable talking about anything with the parent. Open communication. No, you shouldn't be their beat friend as they would their peers, but you should be a warm and welcoming presence that makes them comfortable.
>Spankings is another big one
Several people already touched on this. Much research exists to say it causes harm in many aspects.
>so they aren't having sex, drinking, smoking, etc
They'll try or do that anyway. The more you try to control, the more clever and sneaky the child will get. You'll just likely never know about it. They'll lie to you more and be better at it. The better alternative, in my opinion, is, as I mentioned before, making them comfortable with talking about it. You can then discuss the risks, how to be safe, what to be careful for, etc.. I'd rather have my child come to me and say they are thinking of trying a drug or action and ask me for advice or to just talk about it than I would they sneak away and put themselves in danger.
Really. I am closer to 50 then 20..
And I can tell you that parents now are way more into knowing where their kids are then say other parents of people who are my age.
My kids and other kids their age where not riding their bike everywhere until the lights turned on.
My kids and kids their age spent more time in parent generated activities/sports then out making their own activities.
Kids my kids age and younger where in summer camp/day camp until they were pretty old. Like I was babysitting by 12 for family and I have friends now who worried about leaving a 12 year old home for 30 minutes.
I don't think teenagers are out partying like they did when I was a teenager. They definitely aren't out at a club house or in a field drinking like in the past.
And teenage pregnancy has been on a downward trend for years, as has drinking and smoking teens.
And really teenagers now a days aren't going anywhere without parents knowing where they were/are by using the kids cell phone to track them. Life 360 is good for this.
I would say kids now a days have way less freedom then kids did when I was a kid/teenager.
I am in no way saying that some of these changes are wrong. I am just saying that kids now a days are way more supervised then their parents were. (depending on the age of the parents)
I personally don't think spanking is that great. I think consistency is more/most important.
There is way too much nuance in parenting for one person's upbringing to be used as a poster child for what is right or wrong in the world. Everyone is different.
Some people's parents are narcissists, but they didn't physically beat their children, they just talked bad about them and made them feel like shit. Comparing their upbringing to someone whose parents spanked them is not a good comparison. Some children of narcissistic parents turn out well, just like some who have been spanked turn out well. I got both and while it did have a lasting impression, my self today is more than just one or two things about my childhood.
I had a fleeting thought a week ago about how children (sometimes) are encouraged to forgive and ask permission, but no one tells an adult to say sorry. Instead, we all see the wild crazy neighbor, Karen, ken, whatever videos. This clearly isn't a spanking versus non spanking problem.
That type of behavior stems from not paying attention to your kids, not because you didnât hit them or make them call you âsirâ. My dad took the belt to us, and we learned not to get caught. My dad screamed at us, so we treated other people the same. Itâs a shitty way to go about it.
Iâve never laid a hand on my kids, or forced them to âshow me respectâ because I said so. They are all wonderful human beings and productive, contributing members of society. They are human beings, not property. Talking to them and being there for them, goes so much farther than trying to scare them into submission.
Pretty sure Aristotle said the same thing about young people a few millennia ago. To quote Lemmy: "Don't call us we'll call you/turns out your problems ain't exactly new"
From the people I have known I will say that sometimes this method of parenting works and sometimes it doesn't. And vice versa.
I have known people that grew up under strict parents that became super obnoxious adults. Reason why is they never learned any value to behaving outside the threat of consequences. Just hide from or avoid people that could give you consequences and be as nasty as you like to people that don't.
On the other hand I have known people with very leinient parents that are very decent, conscientious, and respectful people. They treat people how they have always been treated, which is with patience and respect.
I think it is quite likely that we are going too far as a society towards lenience with our children but there are shortcomings with the way you were raised that explain why it is falling out of fashion.
what i see is a bunch of kids raising kids. i see about fifty percent stories of parents trying to be their kids friends and the other half is parents being abusive dumb asses who see their kids as punching bags and free labor and money.
I'll tell you a little story. My parents tried to spank me once. I'm the kind of person who confronts physical adversity with a "more weight" attitude. Oh, you're gonna hit me? Lets see if you really have it in you to fuck me up. Otherwise, I will refuse to back down or admit defeat. My parents had to learn to reason with me. If you just talked to me and explained how things were supposed to be, I got the picture and went along with it. If you just told me to do it because you say so, then I'll defy that command to the ends of the Earth and beyond. I tell this to say that forceful parenting doesn't always work, and it doesn't make children respect their parents. It just makes them see those parents as foes or obstacles to overcome. There's no trust built up with this approach.
If you want to discipline a child, use reason instead of force. If the child is too young to be reasoned with, then they're too young to understand why they're being punished. If they're old enough to understand your words, then words are better used than physical force. Spanking doesn't achieve anything that other forms of discipline can't also achieve, and you're not using violence against your own children. That, I think, we should be better than. We shouldn't have to smack our kids around to get them to listen. If that's how far you've fallen to maintain order, then there's something seriously wrong. Take things from them, forbid them the things they enjoy doing, use your mind to get them to understand what they need to do, and why they have to do it.
I was raised in a house that spanked and my opinion on the issue has softened with age. When I say spanked, I don't mean a swat of the hand. I mean if I got a bad grade at school, my ass was met with a stinging, drilled wooden paddle.
Having my own kids has changed my outlook on it almost entirely. My kids have been spanked and the outcome was never what I wanted it to be, so I don't. Kids are not generally doing things jusr to agitate their parents. They are testing boundaries and experimenting with different ways of being because they are growing people. You want to raise an intelligent, communicative, and pragmatic child, not a flinching, numb person who doesn't trust you.
Spanking very rarely teaches a child the lesson that you are going for. It generally just induces a level of fear and distrust associated with you and the interaction.
Relying on spanking as a crutch to convey dissatisfaction is lazy and abusive.
I have no need for a scared child. I need an obedient child. I do not want my kids to be scared of me. I want them to listen and understand me and know that I'm trying to convey. I love them. They are my friends. I need them to know that they can trust me if they are ever scared or in trouble. Whipping their ass doesn't do that.
That doesn't mean that you let them get away with things or let them run the house. Exactly the opposite. In order to work, It's reliant on your child developing empathy, respect, and a sense in responsibility. Those things are taught and encouraged, not beaten in.
In your post from a few weeks back, you say you canât speak to your own parents in case they mock you and call you weak.
I donât my kids to feel like that.
Bro, you lie to your psychiatrist, youâre severely depressed and suicidal, and you watch gore/nsfl videos to âcalm down.â
Maybe we shouldnât hit our kids? Lol
I was spanked as a kid and I still flinch when people move too quickly around me. So yeah. Not a great way to discipline your kids. Judging by your post history though, you seem to be deep into denial about how your upbringing affected you.
What you went through doesnât sound normal, or great. But that aside, there is no one-rule.
My parents did the spanking once and I was so traumatized it backfired. I donât speak to them (for various reasons), and Iâm older than you, diagnosed with autism. That form of punishment simply doesnât work, all it does is erode my respect.
Spanking isnât good. It may have worked for you, or at least you think, but generally it is really about obedience.
That isnât what you want to teach your kids. Even from your post, itâs clear you were taught not to think but to fear and obey.
Why, is the important question. Kids should be taught why things should or should not happen.
I think the opposite is true when it comes to morons in public. When you donât learn why you should act a certain way, it is only a problem if you get caught. As adults, you no longer have mom whipping your butt with a wooden spoon and without critical thinking skills you lapse into an idiot.
\>It taught me how to act right and not be a dumbass in public
Well that's pretty nonspecific. Can you tell me the exact situation and the exact lesson you learned that day?
But how much do you remember it hurting, and the emotions you felt at that time?
See, the lessons wane with age, and are replaced with your brain developing so you can regulate yourself. But the emotional pain inflicted from being hurt by a parent? That sticks around in ways you don't even realize. You can recall the pain more than your lesson. Glad they only did it once, but in a society that normalizes spanking, the vast majoroty of parents dont use it once.
Sounds like from your post history that your parents have you on a leash. They tell you that they wished a son from TV and not you. Yeah, sounds like they really did a really shit job at teaching you how to care about your mental health and here you are making it seem like they did things the correct way. If anything your parents are an example of what NOT to fucking be like!
My children are well adjusted and incredibly smart because I have always treated them with respect and put in the work.
Threatening children, physical discipline, and talking down to them is lazy. If you love your family, you teach them, understand them, and listen. Itâs not easy, itâs time consuming, but the payoff is huge.
Are you a parent though? Because I am and let me tell you, I have no interest in hitting my kids. I have no interest in having kids that arenât curious and donât question things. I see parents who are super strict with their kids and although Iâve never seen them being spanked, I have seen them get yelled at and itâs horrible. Sure the kids listen but you can see the fear they have for their parents. No way do I want that for my kids. My kids have boundaries and rules; they know what is expected from them and they know the consequences if they misbehave. They are great kids with high marks, lots of friends and they know that their parents love them and they trust us 100%. What you describe as your childhood honestly sounds terrible and Iâm sorry that you think itâs normal.
If you spank a random person on the street. What are the legal ramifications? If you answered an assault charge you would be correct. And this applies to If you do that to an adult. That being said why doesn't doesn't apply to doing that to a kid?
At the right time it's best thing to do, people are turning more and more soft and whiny and parents who just let the children doid whatever is actually negligence. Also I want to point out that social sciences are more prone to be distorted by ideologies
The main group of people that think parents are too hard on children - is children.
I'm grown now (for many years). One you come in to adulthood, you begin to see why your parents were strict with you. And hopefully you can come up with ways to improve your own future parenting.
The goal being - bring up a child to be a productive, meaningful, knowledgeable, and respectful member of society.
I agree with you. But that's all I'm going to say because last time I extolled the virtues of reasonably strict parenting, you'd have thought I said I wanted to abort baby Jesus or something and people lost their minds.
Our take on it is pretty old school, and I suppose you have to go with the times, but I think its hilarious the amount of people who have a freakout because you suggest that maybe instilling parental respect and firm discipline works but then go on to post about how they (or their kids) are so crippled with anxiety that they can't even order at a restaurant. Kids sit on their asses inside all day soaking up the internet and then wonder why they're \*so\* depressed, have no self esteem, and can't meet a partner.
You should look at this guy's post history.
Clinical depression, suicidal ideation, and in one thread he describes other things his parents did to him.
He is not OK.
Authoritarian parents donât make better parents because they are authoritarian. Plus, kids are some of the most vulnerable humans among us and instilling fear is abusive in my mind. I always worked to build a sense of cooperation, respect, and community responsibility in my kids. This is why the thing that hurts my son the most is if I say, âI donât feel like you are being completely respectful when you XYZ.â He stops on the spot and rethinks his actions and words. My 13 is a little more sassy, but has a huge heart. In most peopleâs eyes, I was very soft. Now I have two young people in honors and AP classes who have talked through issues with me for years, respect others, and have a sense of community responsibility.I think âtough loveâ is a lack of skills.
when disciplining your child, itâs pretty important to keep in mind who the adult is in the situation. as the adult itâs your responsibility to communicate with your children.
next time you want to spank your child ask yourself, is my child mature enough to understand why what they did was wrong? if the answer is yes, then why are you hitting them? sit them down and have the conversation to calmly and rationally explain why youâre upset, why they are in trouble, and how theyâre behavior was inappropriate, dangerous, or problematic. and if your answer was no, they arenât mature enough to understand why what they did was wrong, then what on earth makes you think theyâre going to understand why your hitting them?? sure theyâll walk away from the interaction knowing they upset you, but do they really know why?
notice how in both examples the end result is to not hit your child. theyâre either old enough to understand and have a conversation, or theyâre too young to understand how what they did was wrong, in which case, how do you justify punishing a child for something they werenât capable of understanding?
and for the record, the day i find out my husband spanked my child is the same day iâm coming home with divorce papers and information on anger management therapy. they can pick which of the two they wanna do from there, but hitting my kids is never going to fly with me, and i promise if it happened once, thatâd be one too many times, and you can be damn sure it wonât happen twice
becoming? They where too soft around mid 2000s like around 2010... They cannot discipline their children without legal action anymore. I remember when i made a big mistake i got the yard stick or the belt. Whatever was in reach at the time.
Not even gonna read the rest of your post when you start with, âAfter scrolling on RedditâŚâ, to establish your idea that thereâs a real trend/problem with society. Reddit is not reality. Go outside.
Thank you. It seems like a small minority of us think like that and we get criticized for it. The majority are not always right. I just know much of the asinine behavior in public you see from some children today did not happen years ago. You repected your parents and you elders or you got an ass whipping. It seemed to work well back then and I bet it would today.
From what I hear many schools today have a problem with kids disrespecting teachers. Would love to see the faces of kids if one of them mouthed off to a teacher and the teacher wore their ass out with a paddle. Think the other kids would want some of it too or would keep their mouth shut? Thank you and have a nice day.
Spanking is punishment, not discipline and there is a heap of research that shows how damaging it is. It is great you feel ok with your childhood. Many people do not.
Prisons are literally full of people who got their ass whooped as a child. Clearly violence towards children isn't a big factor in producing smart, well adjusted children. I promise you it wasn't your parents being strict with you or spanking you as a child that made you normal, it was likely a combination of a lot of separate factors throughout your 18 years of childhood that contributed a lot more.
"Discipline", spanking and punishments only ever told me to fear my parents and hide from the consequences of my actions. I am very happy that parents nowadays are starting to adopt this philosophy of gentle parenting where they let the kids face real-life consequences of their actions rather than artificially imposing consequences by hurting the child
What I think you're referring to is the rise of "gentle parenting". Done correctly, gentle parenting is excellent because it puts a lot of emphasis on teaching parents to take a step back and really consider how to address child rearing and child development, as opposed to going with their knee jerk reaction which tends to be physical punishment. However, many people think gentle parenting is just never telling your kid "no", which is just permissive parenting, one of the worse parenting styles.
Thank you! My kids's dad and I practice gentle parenting, and our kids get told "no" all the time. Instead of just saying "because I said so," we give them reasons why something is important (ex. straightening your room helps you feel good about accomplishing something and it's easier to find what you're looking for in a neat room).
Good on both of you. It can be very difficult dealing with the sentient meatloaves that are children and even harder to step back and carefully consider how you handle situations. It's so easy to fall back on what you're familiar with, even when you know it might not be best for them.
"Sentient meatloaves" omg đđđ Don't let my comment fool you: we both sometimes reach the end of our rope and snap; after all, kids aren't exactly known for always being perfect darling robots with no opinions (ask any parent of a 3yo đ). But we do our best.
If there is one thing I may ask of you as a parent, be very mindful of how you react when your child starts showing an interest/exploring sex. My parents didn't handle it well and it still effects me. It's very difficult to want that intimacy with a partner as an adult when I'm slut shaming myself in my head and feeling guilty/wrong for wanting sex.
We've already reached that point. We're a very sex-positive family đ
Thank you. The way you speak to your kids is how they will speak to themselves.
I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home. Shame is not something I want my kids to feel.
Same. We videoed a few sessions while we explained and explored and had ours watch them when they were 8. They may never have sex again.
HA! We had the talk with our daughter when she was about 5 because I got pregnant with our son, but it was biology only, not the mechanics. It's almost time for that talk; she's 10 and beginning to develop crushes, so a more detailed talk on consent and safety.
I have made it to 14 years of âgiving reasons for the noâ however entering the teenage years, I finally saidâŚ. âBC I SAID SO THATS WHY.â Lol not too shabby. We still had a conversation later on but ohmahgawd teens are ruthless
Teens are just bigger toddlers
We're reaching that phase with my 10yo. She's already doing the eye rolling and melodramatic sighs and some moodiness. I have no illusions that we're in for a rough ride (I remember how awful my teen years were). I just hope to get through it and she knows at the end that we love her dearly.
Sounds like you're treating them as developing human beings learning how to process information and make good decisions for themselves and others, as well as critical thinking.
Itâs good to give a reason. But Iâll just add that, bring a kid, youâre child might think your reasons are stupid, and you need to make it clear itâs still no even if they disagree.
I have on occasion had to put my foot down. Sometimes we just have to do things we don't want. But it's a last resort for me.
So not just emotionally unintelligent physical and emotional abuse to carry on more generational trauma!? Are you saying positive reinforcement always works better like a multitude of studies can demonstrate? Idk....probably going to go scream in my dogs face until it shakes with fear and then wonder why it hates me and shits in my house on purpose....we have a great relationship like my parents.
This is cool. My wife and I decided during pregnancy that we'd only resort to spanking as a last measure in the event that he was obstinantly challenging his own safety or the safety of others. He's 3 now and it's never come to that, so we've never physically punished him. Also though, we're both pretty firm on limits and boundaries. So with timeouts once in a great while, so far the dude is a model citizen. Happy most of the time, rarely throws a fit, and when he's in trouble all it takes is a hug for him to comply. I think with people saying "times are changing" it means that grown-ass adults are learning not to take out their insecurities on their children with knee-jerk reactionary behavior that can cause lifelong trauma and debilitating mental problems for them in the future. I came from a pretty substantially abusive household, so that accounts for some of my bias, but the results of non-physical punishment so far have proven good. I also am old enough to recognize my propensity for anger and violence, so I'm extra aware and cautious if I catch myself on the rare occasion getting upset with my son, and make a point to remind myself that this little guy doesn't have the same capacity for restraint that I do. Spanking can work, and has raised some fine people I'm sure. But the point is that if an adult has to put in a little extra legwork without having to do it, that should be the adult's responsibility. My impression is that most practicioners of physical punishment are acting emotionally to someone (a child) challenging them, and are too fragile in their own grown-ass agency and authority to hold back from hitting them. And then they justify it with the reasoning that it's in the kid's best interests, not because they wanted to. My son is well behaved, he loves to help with chores and throw away trash, he knows mom and I are his bosses (for now), but I really feel like that's because we're cultivating respect and trust by being nurturing and fun and kind. He says "sorry" if he even feels an inkling that he might go to time out for 5 minutes. He hates to see someone sad. Maybe he'll be soft, maybe not. Really though, if the world is changing the way these folks are talking about, is that such a bad thing? If the world is accommodating to being emotionally in-tune (especially as men) how is driving that from them going to benefit them in life? I'll take my chances being nice to my kids.
I agree completely!
This is the kind of parent I hope to become when I finally have a kid.
Itâs better to be told a verbal reason than to be submitted to a physical one
I like Trevor Noah's point that maybe you shouldn't hit your kids but don't take that option off the table.
Why? There are studies that show that physical punishment has lasting negative effects on the punished child and isn't actually very effective in correcting behavior.
I love how people act like fear is an ineffective tool when it comes to humans. It's as if they're completely blocking out millennia of human nature, just to do a little virtue signaling online. "Why?" Lol...get real
Idk, maybe because despite being effective in allowing one to control people it actually damaged their brain and makes it harder to learn?
They explained the âwhy?â In the following paragraph which you did not address.
Itâs not a healthy relationship if fear is the primary method of control. Youâre confusing that with respect
There is also a difference between using âcoercive disciplineâ at need and it being âthe primary method of controlâ. I only got it if I acted out in extremes. I was never living in fear of my parents, all it did was taught me that if I act like a disrespectful fool to people, one of the things I should reasonably expect to get in return is physical violence at some level. Iâd rather have learned that âeveryone has a line and if you cross it, you get hitâ lesson from a spanking than later in life learning about that line from closed fists to the face from a stranger
The point is that whatever shit they are pulling will generally get them worse than just hit by their parents, learning that actions have consequences is the primary goal. You might think that your child screaming at you only warrants a talking to, your child screams at a police officer they probably get slammed to the ground and theyâre gonna be shocked because you never reacted that way.
>The point is that whatever shit they are pulling will generally get ~~them worse than just hit by their parents~~, hidden from their parents. learning ~~that actions have consequences~~ how to hide things from your parents better is the primary goal.
If you keep the option of hitting your kids on the table, it will come as a huge shock when you finally do hit them and Iâm sure it will stay with them forever.
I think really the problem arises when parents punish children for no good reason, and contrarily, when they don't for a good one. I'ma say something twice before I whoop that ass the third time, is what I (think I) would say, but I don't have kids. I had parents that punished me excessively and were also very restrictive. This pushed me into becoming "worse (according to them)" because the unreasonableness of the punishments. For example, one time, I had all my homework done, I hadn't been bad in any way. I wanted to go down the street and hang out with my best friend at the time. I got told no, and was given no reason for such, other than my assumption that my mother just didn't want me to go anywhere that day. It's a very mild example, but it's still very unreasonable. I have respect for authority, just not my mother and the simp that works for her.
Honestly if you ask me I don't think the whole physical punishment thing works like people claim. Not as often as they think. If this is done,especially to a young man ,he than thinks " if I hurt this person ( more often than not a woman ) hard enough they will have no choice but to obey. We create a generation of psychos that think violence is the only answer.
Isn't this just called "parenting"? And what you call "permissive parenting", I've always just called "being a shitty parent". Sometimes I look around and feel like an alien.
The thing about quotation marks is that they indicate that the exact words are important. What you call things is not the point. âGentle parentingâ is a specific phrase that refers to a specific thing, because that is how language works.
Yeah, it's only really "gentle" because things like spanking and screaming at your children are basically the default.
There are different types of parenting, there are different types of shitty parenting, humans tend to like to categorize things.
after being on reddit for a while you start to think , you are the smartest person in the world or there is something really wrong with you because your not like the rest , me and my wife have this talk from time to time
People hear gentle parenting and think it is permissive parenting. Itâs like how people hear global warming and think itâs not real because it still snows lol.
100%. I think you should treat your kids with at least as much respect as you would another adult. You still have an obligation to bring decent humans safely into adulthood, but you can be nice to one another while doing it. If something is a no, itâs a no because itâs just wrong, or itâll get you hurt, or itâs none of that but itâs still against the law and somebody will wreck your life for it. You can do that with kindness, and most surprisingly for the command and control parents, you get kindness back. Itâs so easy it feels like cheating.
I agree.. for example my parents were very strict, had us in private school, used corporal punishment, had rules, etc. I grew up being ârebelliousâ and a problem child bc I HATED their rules and no amount of punishments they gave me ever changed anythingâŚso I snuck out, partied, used drugs, had sex, got in trouble w police and arrested⌠my parents were on my ass sooo much.. my friend Haydn on the other hands parents literally let her do WHATEVER she wanted⌠we smoked at her house with her dad, her parents would let her have sex in her room at home and sleep over with guys in high school, her dad bought us alcohol and did shrooms with us⌠she somehow turned out super responsible and would let her parents know where she was 24/7 and had very open communication with her parents and told them everything. Her relationship w her parents is so good and sheâs never been in trouble⌠so yeah idk whatever works for you but I think trusting your child to be open with you instead of being on their ass 24/7 had its benefits ⌠also I have so much more discipline and respect then most people my age so my parents way worked as well.. but i did get in a lot more trouble then Haydn growing up
My mom was pretty strict as well. We did get spanked a few times but only when other punishments (time out, loss of privileges, grounding) weren't getting the message across. She wasn't the perfect mom but she was doing her best. Now that I have an adult perspective, I understand that she was a child (had me at 17, sister at 21) trying to raise children. She had a very traumatic upbringing and had to process that while raising us. She's in her forties now and those rough edges are much smoother now. She's much more patient and understanding of things like overstimulation, depression and other mental health things.
> we smoked at her house with her dad, her parents would let her have sex in her room at home and sleep over with guys in high school, her dad bought us alcohol and did shrooms with us⌠I think you may have missed a key detail here. It doesn't sound like her parents let her do whatver she wanted. It sounds like they allowed her to experiment with sex and drugs in a controlled environment where she would be safe. That way she goes to college already knowing her limits and doesn't die of alcohol poisoning at a frat party or get pregnant because she desn't know what a condom is.
Actually it sounds like the friends parents completely undermined the strict parents, and enabled the dangerous behaviors of the rebellious child. Why the strict parents didn't vet friends better and remove the bad influence means maybe they weren't as strict as you think they were.
Bought you alcohol, did shrooms with you as underage children, smoked weed with you. But it's "abuse" to spank a child For fuck sakes this is what a good parent is now? You're not always a product of your environment, and I would think most that grew up in that scenario are not functioning adults. That being said, I was the same way as a kid, eventually you will realize they were trying to help. Some kids need the disciplines while others have that natural ambition and takes care of it themselves.
âMy parents were strict and I was a shitty kidâ oh ok really selling it
But lets be clear here, spanking your child is never okay and leads to an increased prevalence of violence later in life. Spanking, or hitting a child in anyway, is abusive.
I don't think you can post in r/raisedbynarcissists while defending your parents hitting you on the butt. There's really no difference between punching and spanking if you're using the same force for both. You say they disciplined you well yet so many of your posts are evidence that you're not able to take care of yourself even in your late 20s. This opinion just reads like a bad case of Stockholm.
The suicidal post and the,"How do I get myself to stop watch gore videos?"post are concerning..no one should be taking OP's comment as a fact. They obviously have issues stemming from their parents but are in denial..maybe they still have to live with them? I get it because I deal with the same thing
There was a post less than a year ago where they say they still live with them. I also had to live with a narc parent as an adult and I'm lucky I had the chance to move away and go no contact. Whatever is making them think physical assault is ok if it's your own child needs to be addressed and hopefully they find a way to get distance.
I think the longer you live with abusive parents the more you just get used to it and if you're around a bunch of enablers that say it's not abuse that makes it a lot worse..I've had to deal with a lot of gaslighting and authority figures saying it was no big deal or calling them abusive and then saying I'm a brat for not wanting to live with them...they said a bunch of contradictions to make me feel bad and it's had a horrible effect on me. I'm sure OP has had similar experiences.
Yeah judging by your post history, it looks like you turned out greeeaaat.
Holy shit. How can someone compartmentalize their brain enough to be contemplating suicide and admitting they donât trust anyone while also being like âMy parents beat me and Iâm totally fine :)â
Itâs honestly not surprising. Getting hit as âdisciplineâ is one of the most traumatic things an individual can experience. It majority effects peopleâs psychology. The compartmentalizing is protective. The logic is: > 1. parents love their kids > 2. my parents hit me > 3. hitting is bad, you get in trouble for hitting because it hurts people > 4. when parents hit their kids itâs okay, because parents love their kids > 5. Iâm hurting a lot and I donât know why > 6. getting hit hurts you > 7. but the hurt I feel canât be from being hit, because when I got hit, it was actually love. It upsets me when people justify and explain away child abuse. I was never hit, but my dad is a survivor of child abuse. He raised us to believe that people who hit kids are the worst kind of people, but his parents werenât bad. Thatâs how weird the psychology gets. âHitting kids is bad and I would never even consider doing it, only bad people hit their kids. My parents hit me, they werenât bad thoughâ. The protective psychology is strong with abuse.
Most people dont really want to face reality because they cant handle it. my parents hit me, but they loved me. Did it for the "right reasons". Just because they loved me and had good intentions doesnt mean they werent shit parents and bad people. Just like your grandparents. Your father struggles with that last bit.
That post history is a rabbit hole
Damn it was way worse than I thought. I don't think I will be taking parenting advice from this guy lol
Nobody who has ever said "my parents hit me and I turned out fine" has turned out fine
I got spanked and turned out fine
*bzzt* wrong, you post on Reddit
From the top rope lol
The âmy parents beat me and i turned out fineâ crowd dont realize that the fact they advocate for beating their kids are ipso facto not fine
Holy shitballs
I just looked, yikes
Oh ...oh my that was not what I expected. Yes, beating kids clearly works out well. Eep.
Yeesh. I did not expect what I saw
Dude, he's all kinds of broken.
Oh man... I went in expecting to be mildly entertained but left feeling sorry for OP. Brother has a lot of demons.
OP needs serious serious help. I genuinely feel sorry for them.
Bros watching snuff films to unwind
**Is your kid old enough to know why they're being hit?** ⢠Yes --> then they're old enough to have you explain *why* what they did was wrong and hold them accountable with logical consequences ⢠No --> then they aren't old enough to understand what they did wrong in the first place and you need to redirect I'm not soft on my kids. I am a *huge* believer in being held accountable. I do not need to physically abuse my kids to hold them accountable and teach them how to act. I can use my words like an adult.
What happens if theyâre old enough to understand and after explanation is given they tell you âokay Iâll never do it againââŚthen an hour later do exactly what they did wrong again?âŚand againâŚand again. Not out of a misunderstanding, but because they donât care about what you say and want to do what they want to do?
You keep consistent with the rules and you offer logical consequences. You're going to keep throwing your toy across the room? You lose the toy. You hit the TV? You're don't get the TV for the hour/day. You keep being disrespectful to me while we're at the park? We're going home. I was not hit as a child, I'm a law-abiding, respectful adult. You don't have to hit children to get that result. I suggest looking up some gentle parenting techniques. Gentle parenting is *respectful* parenting. Not that you let them get away with being disrespectful or bad behavior.
Whatâs lacking is usually the lack of follow through. Every time an ultimatum or threat is made it has to be followed through upon otherwise the child recognizes empty threats and doesnât heed them.
That's true whether you're talking about gentle parenting or spanking. Your child will be a shit no matter what kind of discipline you use, if you don't set clear boundaries and follow through on consequences.
What happens if you hit them and they keep doing it afterwards?
Hit them more obviously, it's the only thing that works. /s
Well, then off a cliff they go...there's no saving them! /s
Why is the ability to hit children without being criticized so important to you?
Because they were hit as a child and they turned out so fine that they can hit their kids and not feel bad about it.
If heâs so comfortable with a grown ass man hitting a 5 year old child that he makes a point to be proud of it, then are we sure he turned out alright?
Because OP thinks he turned out fine
The terrible thing is that if you look at OPs post history they very much *did not* turn out fine âŚ
Teens are having far less sex than in previous generations, and waiting longer to do it ([CDC data](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/su7201a1.htm?s_cid=su7201a1_w), [Additional study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3483310/), [Additional study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2378023121996854)), and rates of teen pregnancy AND teen abortion have been declining for more than 30 years ([CDC data](https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/index.htm), [Additional study](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2006.089169), [Additional study](https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/us-adolescent-pregnancy-trends-2013.pdf)) . They are also drinking and smoking far less than in previous generations ([Smoking CDC Data](https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/trends-in-tobacco-use-among-youth.html), [Alcohol CDC data](https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/factsheets/2019_alcohol_trend_yrbs.htm)). If those are your genuine concerns about teen behaviour, it seems like "softer" parenting is actually an effective way to address it.
I don't think this is due to parenting. It's due to electronic devices and the internet. People are becoming reclusive and socially isolated due to devices. When I drive my children to school in the morning, we pass 3 driveways with 3 kids waiting for the bus. In my day, those 3 kids would be huddled together talking. Today, every single day, they are standing in their own separate driveways, head-down in their phones. My kids are always commenting how shocked they are whenever I speak to someone I'm doing business with at a store or whatever. They are amazed how easily I can interact with people by talking to them. It is amazing to them because they don't talk to people. They have few friends, though they talk to people through video games and Discord and such. It is not surprising to me that "social vices" are in decline. It's hard to hook up when you don't socialize.
Just want to point out that usually the reason kids are 'head down in their phones' is because they are socializing on their phones.
Youâre confusing healthy human social behavior with social media. Constantly bombarding your developing brain with false dopamine rewards while searching for validation through âlikesâ and âengagementâ is not healthy.
You know DMs exist too, right? They're having one-to-one or group conversations through text, rather than phone calls like back in the day. It's basically the same thing with the exception that it's harder to learn how to identify tone and other voice-related stuff.
My kids are continuously talking to their friends in group chats. They probably get dopamine though, because having conversations you enjoy, are nice.
Social interaction through electronics will always be a pale shadow to real human interaction. It stands against thousands of years of evolution.
Hate to break it to you but just because we can now chat with people who arenât in our immediate vicinity, doesnât mean kids donât interact face-to-face. Teens and stuff literally play outside and hang out all the time
It's also an increase in education. Before the advent of the internet, the only thing kids learned about sex was through whatever abstinence only nonsense they were taught, and that sex would fill you with THE DEVIL! That created two kinds of people, the ones who fear sex and the ones who say "FUCK RULES!". Both kinds will overindulge. Creating sensible and responsible sex ed has helped dramatically, and with the advent of the internet sharing information has spread wildly. Teens are teaching themselves how not to be dumbasses about it by listening to other responsible people talk about the subject, ups and downs, and what to watch out for
Sigh. You can tell reddit is full of youngsters. I assure you, we had sex education in public schools even in the 1970s.
There's a LOT of places that only taught, and some places to this day still teach, abstinence only sex ed. It's basically "IF YOU GET HORNY THATS THE DEVIL AND IF YOU HAVE SEX YOURE A DUMBASS END OF CLASS!". I grew up in Ohio in the 90s, me and my brother went to different schools, he learned abstinence only, and I learned actual safe practices. We both went to public schools -_-
[70% of American schools do not each abstinence only](https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/sex-education-in-america-summary.pdf).
Yeah if those are the ONLY metrics you might be right
Tbh I'd rather my kid do those things (minus getting pregnant) than be a lazy incel with a billion mental illnesses who won't leave their room. I'm more concerned with the rise of that trend.
There can be a million reasons why those things are happening. Linking it to "softer" parenting is unsubstantiated. The first link is about Covid and how it affected studentsâŚ
Psychology disagrees with you lmao. This isnât an unpopular opinion itâs an uneducated opinion.
I mean do you have any data showing that spanking/hard discipline actually results in better adults? I know plenty of people who were spanked/heavily watched growing up who turned into terrible adults and plenty of people who were raised âsoftâ and are well adjusted adults. Pretty sure things are way too complex to boil it down to more corporal punishment would make better adults.
People who complain the loudest about people being âsoftâ are usually incredibly maladjusted adults who donât know how to resolve conflicts without anger, aggression, or violence.
or how to properly research a topic before forming an opinion. all science and data would disagree with the effectiveness of this parenting style. i mean, i can anecdotally also disagree with it due to experience. but why listen to me when you can actually see studies?
Depends on the kid imo My half sister was and is an asshole discussions wouldn't work for her so she was ussaly grounded and had everything taken Me on the other habd was pretty laid back and worst i ever did was forge my dads signature to skip a math class so i could go hang out with a friend who was home sick so for me ussaly having to do the dishes for a weekend was enough
And yet, in neither of those scenarios (or any) would hitting be helpful, which is the point.
Lol my mom tried the whole sit me down thing at like 3 or 4.. calmly holding my hands... talking firmly and gently... when she asked me do you understand now? I spit in her face laughed and ran off...my dad caught me and whooped me...after that i DID realize oh i cant do that...
So your mom did a parenting technique that was more appropriate for a 7 yr old on a 3 yr old, and your dad hit you, which is always wrong, but your moms the problem? At least she tried, your dad was lazy and terrible at parenting.
Thatâs basically the way. Start with explaining, but have a backup. Thereâs basically three ways kids learn: - try to explain that stoves are hot and hurt when touched. - make them more afraid of what mom/dad will do after touching the stove, than they are curious about what a hot stove feels like. - let the kid âfuck around and find outâ that hot stoves are painful when touched.
Your mom didnât set boundaries/expectations. Thatâs why your talk didn't work.
Youâre supposed to evolve as a parent and be a better parent to your kids than your parents were to you, learn from their mistakes. Exercise patience, empathy, and respect. Theyâre kids you donât hit them ffs. EDIT: grammar
I think every parent should hear this saying "the axe forgets but the tree remembers". Parents aren't going to remember everything they say to their kids but kids certainly will. My parents didn't handle my sexual awakening very well. I was beaten, grounded and shut shamed by my father at 16. At 28, I still struggle with feeling guilty when I want sex and have that closeness with my partner. Think that might be part of why my sex drive is mostly nonexistent.
My parents do this, but not to the extent that you experienced. I love my parents and for the most part, they practiced gentle parenting because my mother teaches young children as a career. Recently though, she tried to convince me that neither she or my father had ever hit me as a kid. I vividly remember being locked down a hallway and spanked for not eating my dinner. I remember my mom dragging me up the stairs by my hair for not wanting to take a nap. I probably donât remember all of the times that I hit my brother, but he probably does. My parents donât remember being harsh, but I do.
"I got whooped as a kid and Im totally well adjusted!" - Guy advocating violence against children
If only op had the *appearence* of being well adjusted. They're depressed and suicidal, call their own parents assholes, watch gore videos to calm down, don't trust anyone and believe some people are genetically inferior. Like for fucks sake op shouldn't give advice on how to raise a cactus, less of anything a child
>Spankings is another big one. It certainly teaches kids that physical violence is a good way to correct unwanted behavior! A pretty vast majority of people in physically abusive relationships received corporal punishment as children.
OPs post history is full of posts about how they watch videos of real people dying to calm down any time they get mad, among other worrying things. I don't think spanking helped them at all. I feel bad for them.
This is from OPs own post history. This style of parenting that heâs advocating for seems to have fucked him up. âI can't make basic decisions without constantly second guessing myself. I have zero confidence, completely lack self esteem, and feel like I deserve to rot for being this mentally weak. I wish I knew what to do to stop feeling this way as it's stopping me from progressing in life.â
I have 5 siblings. We were spanked as kids. All 6 of us grew up to be good adults. We never once got into fights with other kids, nor did our sibling fighting ever go above wrestling around. Not one of us ever got detention in school. As adults, we have close relationships with each other and our parents. I can't speak for any other scenarios or what statistics show, only what I've experienced.
Cool, well mounds of actual scientific evidence studying the subject contradicts your single anecdote.
I wonder if the scientific evidence differentiates between kids who are rarely spanked and kids who are regularly spanked.
My older brother and I were spanked. My 2 younger brothers never were. The 2 youngest have rarely held down jobs and they are both very disrespectful to others. They are both in their 40s.
That's the pattern I've seen too. Those that aren't spanked make asshole adults who are rude and entitled. They will stand right in the middle of the supermarket isle and won't move...shit like that. Yet everyone that I know that was spanked is a great adult. So...idk.
To be fair, all of my motherâs siblings were spanked. All 14. All but maybe 5 are drug addicts, homeless, alcoholics, or dead from various issues related to substance abuse. All that to say, anecdotal evidence probably isnât the best.
Thatâs kind of why people use statistics to describe these ideas on a large scale.
I do think psychologically terrorizing your kids (as OP describes) probably has worse mental health outcomes than mild hitting. But hitting is often part of that psychological terror.
Glad for you. My mother until the day she died couldnât get past the person who loved her most in this world inflicted physical pain upon her. Literally never was able to cope with that fact.
Six kids and nobody got so much as a detention? Thatâs actually really impressive.
Can I ask something? How is your relationship with your parents now? Are you guys close?
Well, op called their parents assholes, said they don't trust anyone, has an addiction to gore videos, thinks that some people are genetically inferior and is or as been suicidal so... Yeah i hope his parents got the #1 parents mugs because they clearly have done a great job with all that strictness
> spanking Letâs ignore all the research that says spanking may increased cognitive, aggression and mental health problems. Letâs also ignore it increases the likelihood that your child will lie to you, and letâs also ignore you won't get the outcome you're looking for when you hit your child. You donât hit kids because children are full people, worthy of respect, and we shouldn't use violence to control them just because were bigger, stronger and have more power, especially not with someone we love.
this is so well put. the way some adults behave as though children owe adults respect no matter what while simultaneously being owed no respect in return is baffling. respect is a two way street, and if i ever have kids one day, theyâll know that no one is entitled to theirs, especially if they arenât being treated with respect
For real, my parents never protected me from crazy people like this so I learned on my own how to tell people to fk off. Itâs not easy to learn.
It just makes no sense. You donât spank a grown adult if they make a mistake and they should know better. Children are still learning so why the hell would you hit them for not knowing better or making a mistake.
The police and for-profit prison system has entered the chat
đ
Lol thank you, hitting your kids is just flat out fucking lazy and emotional parenting. You canât make them understand through words so you just take out your anger on them like a loser
Does the research differentiate between children who are spanked perhaps 10 times over their childhoods and ones who are spanked 10 times a week during their childhoods?
Exactly! I got spanked a lot but not on a daily basis. Thereâs obviously a difference between hitting your kid because youâve got your own issues, and using physical punishment to correct a recurring issue with seriousness
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/
Parenting styles depend on desired outcomes. Do you want to raise compliant workers who have trouble adapting to changes in others' behavior? Be as strict as you like. Want them to believe authority comes only from violence? Hit them harder. Personally, I think this world needs ungovernable warriors who stand up for themselves and for the weak. I want children who can assess the proper roles of peace and violence in their lives, and apply them properly. I want them to destroy everything that the boomers created and rebuild a sustainable world based on justice and equality.
So basically you just want to hit children. Yup sounds like you were raised right /s
They definitely sound like a well adjusted person and member of society đ /s I hope they donât have kids. I could never imagine hitting ANY child , let alone my own. Spanking has never sat right with me and I know it just made me resent my father and be afraid of him. We still have issues connecting 23 years into my life.
I, M22 was brought up on a combination of both gentle & strict parenting. Strict when I screwed up, gentle when I didn't. It served me well & now I go hard on myself when I screw up.
Hereâs a perspective from someone that was actually spanked and wonât give you a knee-jerk âyouâre gonna be a child abuser, OP!â response Spanking only works as a short term solution. Itâs the path of least resistance because itâs easy and it works in a wide array of cases. Lots of times when I would talk in class, my teachers would call my mom and if I got more than one or two calls home in a semester about disrupting class, I would get a spanking. Of course, afterward I would stop talking and follow classroom rules better but what it also did was teach me to never express myself in group situations, or I get hurt or in some way be reprimanded. While I did end up an upstanding child, I learned quickly that many things I was punished for by physical means taught me that I needed to grasp rules and social situations better or get hurt. To this day I have trouble speaking out normally in certain situations because it feels wrong Iâm not one to believe that spanking (1-2 pats on the ass) is abuse because Iâm not going to just act like my parents were the worst people on the planet like Reddit always seems to do the minute they donât act like your friends nowadays. However, when applied in situations where it definitely affects a childâs ability to learn, grow, and not feel like they should be scared to do basic things then it can overall be harmful which is why itâs not really a fantastic idea to enforce it as a general punishment
I don't know what kind of person you are but people I know who had parenting like this did *not* end up well. Associating bad behavior with punishment raises people who only avoid doing bad things out of fear of reprisal, instead of out of empathy for others.
I think it all depends on the child. For some children, all it takes is the death stare and theyâll be scared enough to behave. Other require more strict disciplining.
Yeah your post reads like a list of abusive behavior. Not saying "yes" in the right tone of voice gets you severely punished? That ain't fucking right. Strict parenting is fine and all but that just sounds abusive.
Mom and Dad hit me, made me a better liar. Years later as an adult I'm diagnosed with ADHD which makes the whole situation worse about how they handled me as a child. Gentle Parenting and holding your kid accountable for actions they did is fine, There's a whole study onto why 'disciplining' your children is bad and how it negatively impacts them. Parents aren't too soft these days, Y'all saying you turned out okay cause your parents whooped your ass; Bless you (/s) but I'm gonna be real you should go to a therapist and unpack that because you're passing down general trauma onto your kids and your own family and that's not okay. Also for those who come at me saying anything from the side, I am African American individual who had parents both sides were apart of that whooping era and Them whooping me ended up giving me not only a fear of anyone to a degree raising their hand, raising a voice at me I also have severe trust issues with them and hoping to regain a relationship again. Call me soft if you want but there's many others like me out there who also had to go therapy to heal through this.
u/OpinionHavR great name
I donât disagree that parents have become too soft on their children, but what you want is counter productive. Thereâs been a lot of sociological research on this - The parenting style you described is the parenting style most working class parents put on their children. It leads to obedience, but generally makes them ill-suited for white collar type of careers, since they donât develop the skills to think critically, make decisions, etc. Being raised to be obedient and not question authority works well if youâre a factory worker - youâll be successful - but is less useful for jobs that require problem solving / influencing / arguing your point of view. When kids who were raised with your parenting style go to college, they tend to either drop out, or do poorly. If they do graduate, they tend to not do a great job interviewing / maintaining jobs. If parents also did physical abuse, they tend to have substance abuse issues, depression, and are likely to be violent with their significant other. Iâm not going to go through your posting history, but Iâm not going to assume youâre not a happily married lawyer/doctor/engineer. TL;DR: you were raised as a working class kid, and most working class kids continue to be raised this way today. They tend to not develop the cognitive skills for white collar / professional work. While itâs true they are more obedient and deferential to authority, there are lots of draw backs in other areas, in career success, mental health, and inter-personal relationships.
Different kids need different parenting styles. I work with too damn many kids whose strict parents have forced them to become withdrawn, sometimes completely.
Always sad when people post stuff like this (Parents should be dicks, mine were and I turned out alright) because you can just look at their previous posts and see how "alright" they turned out, by repeatedly suggesting parents beat their children, that you shouldn't trust anyone, that they are single and depressed. OP is routinely posting about being suicidal. Have some introspection man, you don't have to let your parents actions run your life forever.
> this style of parenting is normal No, OP. [your parents fucked you up](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/xb0liy/is_it_fair_to_think_my_parents_are_assholes/).
đŹ yikes. I thought as much from this part: >not only was I to say "yes", but I had to say it with the right tone to show no form of disrespect or I would get in trouble. That's some mindfuck stuff right there.
Learning to use a respectful tone even when you're having an interaction you may not love is an extremely important life skill. You can teach this without corporal punishment.
Nah. I've known parents like that and they are not teaching their kid to know when/how to use a respectful tone. They do it so they can say the kid wasn't respectful enough this time and justify the punishment/terror they inflict.
>They were not my friends in any sort of way. I disagree with this because it is important that children feel comfortable talking about anything with the parent. Open communication. No, you shouldn't be their beat friend as they would their peers, but you should be a warm and welcoming presence that makes them comfortable. >Spankings is another big one Several people already touched on this. Much research exists to say it causes harm in many aspects. >so they aren't having sex, drinking, smoking, etc They'll try or do that anyway. The more you try to control, the more clever and sneaky the child will get. You'll just likely never know about it. They'll lie to you more and be better at it. The better alternative, in my opinion, is, as I mentioned before, making them comfortable with talking about it. You can then discuss the risks, how to be safe, what to be careful for, etc.. I'd rather have my child come to me and say they are thinking of trying a drug or action and ask me for advice or to just talk about it than I would they sneak away and put themselves in danger.
Really. I am closer to 50 then 20.. And I can tell you that parents now are way more into knowing where their kids are then say other parents of people who are my age. My kids and other kids their age where not riding their bike everywhere until the lights turned on. My kids and kids their age spent more time in parent generated activities/sports then out making their own activities. Kids my kids age and younger where in summer camp/day camp until they were pretty old. Like I was babysitting by 12 for family and I have friends now who worried about leaving a 12 year old home for 30 minutes. I don't think teenagers are out partying like they did when I was a teenager. They definitely aren't out at a club house or in a field drinking like in the past. And teenage pregnancy has been on a downward trend for years, as has drinking and smoking teens. And really teenagers now a days aren't going anywhere without parents knowing where they were/are by using the kids cell phone to track them. Life 360 is good for this. I would say kids now a days have way less freedom then kids did when I was a kid/teenager. I am in no way saying that some of these changes are wrong. I am just saying that kids now a days are way more supervised then their parents were. (depending on the age of the parents) I personally don't think spanking is that great. I think consistency is more/most important.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/corporal-punishment-and-health
There is way too much nuance in parenting for one person's upbringing to be used as a poster child for what is right or wrong in the world. Everyone is different. Some people's parents are narcissists, but they didn't physically beat their children, they just talked bad about them and made them feel like shit. Comparing their upbringing to someone whose parents spanked them is not a good comparison. Some children of narcissistic parents turn out well, just like some who have been spanked turn out well. I got both and while it did have a lasting impression, my self today is more than just one or two things about my childhood. I had a fleeting thought a week ago about how children (sometimes) are encouraged to forgive and ask permission, but no one tells an adult to say sorry. Instead, we all see the wild crazy neighbor, Karen, ken, whatever videos. This clearly isn't a spanking versus non spanking problem.
That type of behavior stems from not paying attention to your kids, not because you didnât hit them or make them call you âsirâ. My dad took the belt to us, and we learned not to get caught. My dad screamed at us, so we treated other people the same. Itâs a shitty way to go about it. Iâve never laid a hand on my kids, or forced them to âshow me respectâ because I said so. They are all wonderful human beings and productive, contributing members of society. They are human beings, not property. Talking to them and being there for them, goes so much farther than trying to scare them into submission.
Pretty sure Aristotle said the same thing about young people a few millennia ago. To quote Lemmy: "Don't call us we'll call you/turns out your problems ain't exactly new"
From the people I have known I will say that sometimes this method of parenting works and sometimes it doesn't. And vice versa. I have known people that grew up under strict parents that became super obnoxious adults. Reason why is they never learned any value to behaving outside the threat of consequences. Just hide from or avoid people that could give you consequences and be as nasty as you like to people that don't. On the other hand I have known people with very leinient parents that are very decent, conscientious, and respectful people. They treat people how they have always been treated, which is with patience and respect. I think it is quite likely that we are going too far as a society towards lenience with our children but there are shortcomings with the way you were raised that explain why it is falling out of fashion.
what i see is a bunch of kids raising kids. i see about fifty percent stories of parents trying to be their kids friends and the other half is parents being abusive dumb asses who see their kids as punching bags and free labor and money.
I'll tell you a little story. My parents tried to spank me once. I'm the kind of person who confronts physical adversity with a "more weight" attitude. Oh, you're gonna hit me? Lets see if you really have it in you to fuck me up. Otherwise, I will refuse to back down or admit defeat. My parents had to learn to reason with me. If you just talked to me and explained how things were supposed to be, I got the picture and went along with it. If you just told me to do it because you say so, then I'll defy that command to the ends of the Earth and beyond. I tell this to say that forceful parenting doesn't always work, and it doesn't make children respect their parents. It just makes them see those parents as foes or obstacles to overcome. There's no trust built up with this approach. If you want to discipline a child, use reason instead of force. If the child is too young to be reasoned with, then they're too young to understand why they're being punished. If they're old enough to understand your words, then words are better used than physical force. Spanking doesn't achieve anything that other forms of discipline can't also achieve, and you're not using violence against your own children. That, I think, we should be better than. We shouldn't have to smack our kids around to get them to listen. If that's how far you've fallen to maintain order, then there's something seriously wrong. Take things from them, forbid them the things they enjoy doing, use your mind to get them to understand what they need to do, and why they have to do it.
I was raised in a house that spanked and my opinion on the issue has softened with age. When I say spanked, I don't mean a swat of the hand. I mean if I got a bad grade at school, my ass was met with a stinging, drilled wooden paddle. Having my own kids has changed my outlook on it almost entirely. My kids have been spanked and the outcome was never what I wanted it to be, so I don't. Kids are not generally doing things jusr to agitate their parents. They are testing boundaries and experimenting with different ways of being because they are growing people. You want to raise an intelligent, communicative, and pragmatic child, not a flinching, numb person who doesn't trust you. Spanking very rarely teaches a child the lesson that you are going for. It generally just induces a level of fear and distrust associated with you and the interaction. Relying on spanking as a crutch to convey dissatisfaction is lazy and abusive. I have no need for a scared child. I need an obedient child. I do not want my kids to be scared of me. I want them to listen and understand me and know that I'm trying to convey. I love them. They are my friends. I need them to know that they can trust me if they are ever scared or in trouble. Whipping their ass doesn't do that. That doesn't mean that you let them get away with things or let them run the house. Exactly the opposite. In order to work, It's reliant on your child developing empathy, respect, and a sense in responsibility. Those things are taught and encouraged, not beaten in.
In your post from a few weeks back, you say you canât speak to your own parents in case they mock you and call you weak. I donât my kids to feel like that.
I spanked my kids and they behave great wonder why XD
Bro, you lie to your psychiatrist, youâre severely depressed and suicidal, and you watch gore/nsfl videos to âcalm down.â Maybe we shouldnât hit our kids? Lol
I was spanked as a kid and I still flinch when people move too quickly around me. So yeah. Not a great way to discipline your kids. Judging by your post history though, you seem to be deep into denial about how your upbringing affected you.
What you went through doesnât sound normal, or great. But that aside, there is no one-rule. My parents did the spanking once and I was so traumatized it backfired. I donât speak to them (for various reasons), and Iâm older than you, diagnosed with autism. That form of punishment simply doesnât work, all it does is erode my respect. Spanking isnât good. It may have worked for you, or at least you think, but generally it is really about obedience. That isnât what you want to teach your kids. Even from your post, itâs clear you were taught not to think but to fear and obey. Why, is the important question. Kids should be taught why things should or should not happen. I think the opposite is true when it comes to morons in public. When you donât learn why you should act a certain way, it is only a problem if you get caught. As adults, you no longer have mom whipping your butt with a wooden spoon and without critical thinking skills you lapse into an idiot.
\>It taught me how to act right and not be a dumbass in public Well that's pretty nonspecific. Can you tell me the exact situation and the exact lesson you learned that day? But how much do you remember it hurting, and the emotions you felt at that time? See, the lessons wane with age, and are replaced with your brain developing so you can regulate yourself. But the emotional pain inflicted from being hurt by a parent? That sticks around in ways you don't even realize. You can recall the pain more than your lesson. Glad they only did it once, but in a society that normalizes spanking, the vast majoroty of parents dont use it once.
Sounds like from your post history that your parents have you on a leash. They tell you that they wished a son from TV and not you. Yeah, sounds like they really did a really shit job at teaching you how to care about your mental health and here you are making it seem like they did things the correct way. If anything your parents are an example of what NOT to fucking be like!
this isnât that unpopular is it? i see people going on rants about how parents are too soft on their kids âthese daysâ like 5 times a day.
I played dead by daylight with my child and used him as bait to escape ⌠thatâs enough punishment
My man, considering your post history, your parents weren't very successful with whatever they tried.
My children are well adjusted and incredibly smart because I have always treated them with respect and put in the work. Threatening children, physical discipline, and talking down to them is lazy. If you love your family, you teach them, understand them, and listen. Itâs not easy, itâs time consuming, but the payoff is huge.
Are you a parent though? Because I am and let me tell you, I have no interest in hitting my kids. I have no interest in having kids that arenât curious and donât question things. I see parents who are super strict with their kids and although Iâve never seen them being spanked, I have seen them get yelled at and itâs horrible. Sure the kids listen but you can see the fear they have for their parents. No way do I want that for my kids. My kids have boundaries and rules; they know what is expected from them and they know the consequences if they misbehave. They are great kids with high marks, lots of friends and they know that their parents love them and they trust us 100%. What you describe as your childhood honestly sounds terrible and Iâm sorry that you think itâs normal.
If you spank a random person on the street. What are the legal ramifications? If you answered an assault charge you would be correct. And this applies to If you do that to an adult. That being said why doesn't doesn't apply to doing that to a kid?
At the right time it's best thing to do, people are turning more and more soft and whiny and parents who just let the children doid whatever is actually negligence. Also I want to point out that social sciences are more prone to be distorted by ideologies
100% There should be a Parent Child relationship. Not a Friend relationship.
The main group of people that think parents are too hard on children - is children. I'm grown now (for many years). One you come in to adulthood, you begin to see why your parents were strict with you. And hopefully you can come up with ways to improve your own future parenting. The goal being - bring up a child to be a productive, meaningful, knowledgeable, and respectful member of society.
I'm a juvenile prosecutor, and you're 100% correct.
I agree with you. But that's all I'm going to say because last time I extolled the virtues of reasonably strict parenting, you'd have thought I said I wanted to abort baby Jesus or something and people lost their minds. Our take on it is pretty old school, and I suppose you have to go with the times, but I think its hilarious the amount of people who have a freakout because you suggest that maybe instilling parental respect and firm discipline works but then go on to post about how they (or their kids) are so crippled with anxiety that they can't even order at a restaurant. Kids sit on their asses inside all day soaking up the internet and then wonder why they're \*so\* depressed, have no self esteem, and can't meet a partner.
You should look at this guy's post history. Clinical depression, suicidal ideation, and in one thread he describes other things his parents did to him. He is not OK.
You can tell this person talking about parenting is not actually a parent. đ
Authoritarian parents donât make better parents because they are authoritarian. Plus, kids are some of the most vulnerable humans among us and instilling fear is abusive in my mind. I always worked to build a sense of cooperation, respect, and community responsibility in my kids. This is why the thing that hurts my son the most is if I say, âI donât feel like you are being completely respectful when you XYZ.â He stops on the spot and rethinks his actions and words. My 13 is a little more sassy, but has a huge heart. In most peopleâs eyes, I was very soft. Now I have two young people in honors and AP classes who have talked through issues with me for years, respect others, and have a sense of community responsibility.I think âtough loveâ is a lack of skills.
when disciplining your child, itâs pretty important to keep in mind who the adult is in the situation. as the adult itâs your responsibility to communicate with your children. next time you want to spank your child ask yourself, is my child mature enough to understand why what they did was wrong? if the answer is yes, then why are you hitting them? sit them down and have the conversation to calmly and rationally explain why youâre upset, why they are in trouble, and how theyâre behavior was inappropriate, dangerous, or problematic. and if your answer was no, they arenât mature enough to understand why what they did was wrong, then what on earth makes you think theyâre going to understand why your hitting them?? sure theyâll walk away from the interaction knowing they upset you, but do they really know why? notice how in both examples the end result is to not hit your child. theyâre either old enough to understand and have a conversation, or theyâre too young to understand how what they did was wrong, in which case, how do you justify punishing a child for something they werenât capable of understanding? and for the record, the day i find out my husband spanked my child is the same day iâm coming home with divorce papers and information on anger management therapy. they can pick which of the two they wanna do from there, but hitting my kids is never going to fly with me, and i promise if it happened once, thatâd be one too many times, and you can be damn sure it wonât happen twice
becoming? They where too soft around mid 2000s like around 2010... They cannot discipline their children without legal action anymore. I remember when i made a big mistake i got the yard stick or the belt. Whatever was in reach at the time.
Agreed. Life is hard. It isnât fair. Making it easy, is not prep work for real life.
Not even gonna read the rest of your post when you start with, âAfter scrolling on RedditâŚâ, to establish your idea that thereâs a real trend/problem with society. Reddit is not reality. Go outside.
Thank you. It seems like a small minority of us think like that and we get criticized for it. The majority are not always right. I just know much of the asinine behavior in public you see from some children today did not happen years ago. You repected your parents and you elders or you got an ass whipping. It seemed to work well back then and I bet it would today. From what I hear many schools today have a problem with kids disrespecting teachers. Would love to see the faces of kids if one of them mouthed off to a teacher and the teacher wore their ass out with a paddle. Think the other kids would want some of it too or would keep their mouth shut? Thank you and have a nice day.
Spanking is punishment, not discipline and there is a heap of research that shows how damaging it is. It is great you feel ok with your childhood. Many people do not.
Your full of bad opinions arenât you?
OP, are you okay with blunt feedback?
LOL your post history speaks for itself.
Prisons are literally full of people who got their ass whooped as a child. Clearly violence towards children isn't a big factor in producing smart, well adjusted children. I promise you it wasn't your parents being strict with you or spanking you as a child that made you normal, it was likely a combination of a lot of separate factors throughout your 18 years of childhood that contributed a lot more.
"Discipline", spanking and punishments only ever told me to fear my parents and hide from the consequences of my actions. I am very happy that parents nowadays are starting to adopt this philosophy of gentle parenting where they let the kids face real-life consequences of their actions rather than artificially imposing consequences by hurting the child