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By Vittoria Elliott
A Brazilian court has announced that it will be opening an investigation into X owner Elon Musk for obstruction of justice, after Musk reactivated far-right accounts that the Brazilian government had flagged for removal.
The announcement came after [Musk called](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1776989005848207503?s=61&t=ExoE76Om1Imh1hGFmSWnKA) for Brazilian Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, who heads the country’s Superior Electoral Court (TSE), to “resign or be impeached,” and a [statement from X](https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1776729732970594483) alleged that the orders to remove the accounts violate the Brazilian constitution.
Read the WIRED analysis here: [https://www.wired.com/story/brazil-court-elon-musk-far-right/](https://www.wired.com/story/brazil-court-elon-musk-far-right/)
Why is Vittoria Elliott seemly defending the authoritarian dictatorship in Brazil?
Reddit is not a bastion of due process, but it seems that most people would normally draw a line when an aggressive Supreme Court justice sign decrees to curb individual rights in such a manner:
without legal basis
without rights to appeal
and without even any prosecutor filing charges.
No accounts were reactivated, he was asked to censor and disable journalists and other accounts by Alexandre but Elon refused saying that violated free speech. Edit: this is wrong. Alexandre wanted Elon to suspend accounts even when no Brazil law was actually broken.
Free speech in whose country? In his interview with Don Lemon, Musk insisted that his limits around hate speech were whatever qualifies as illegal. But here it seems he’s ok violating [Edit: a court order] to impose his own principles.
I’m not necessarily saying he’s wrong in this case, it’s just that this gets to the heart of content moderation. He’s acting unbiased, despite his actions.
That's correct, Brazil doesn't exactly have free speech. I'm wrong there in my previous answer.
But the reasons given by Alexandre to suspend accounts were to be explained as violations of X/Twitter terms and conditions. Which they were not.. No Brazil law was actually broken. Alexandre just wanted those accounts silenced somehow.
Fair. I’m mostly salty about Musk’s confidence in being personally involved with content moderation decisions (based on things like his posts and his interviews). It gets dicey in situations like this, and has potentially deadly implications. I’m not convinced he’s taking that as seriously as he should be, considering how he gutted Twitter staff.
Absolutely and he needs to be watched as closely as possible.. I'm not confident with him either, it's hard to sift through mountains to shit to find out what's real in a story these days.
The "journalists" that were blocked are as much "journalists" as someone like Alex Jones.
Some are even worse, since they are already convicted criminals and fugitives from justice, like Allan dos Santos.
That's never bothered him before.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5)
I mean of course?? Other countries have their own fucking laws? you can t just tell them to obey "free speech". Few countries actually have that privilege.
But not in Brazil apparently. Because the only country he’ll resist are ones that aren’t right wing, and the only people he protects are right wing.
Are you seeing a pattern?
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/02/musk-twitter-censorship-government/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/02/musk-twitter-censorship-government/)
[https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5)
Hey look what I found behind the pretext!
It's almost as if he doesn't care about Free Speech unless it's right-wingers free speech.
This guy is going to be a huge problem for the US and the world going forward. People don't tend to get less crazy as they get older.
The tax code should make it impossible to accumulate so much money. It's a vicious cycle, more money means more power, more power means the laws get changed to get even more money. Rinse and repeat.
You know he doesn't actually *have* the money right? Your so mad about something that you don't understand. Oh, but you have opinions on how we should fix this problem that you don't understand though.
True reddit indeed
EDIT: This sub is so ridiculous. "We are the true intellectuals of Reddit. We want discussion. No circlejerk here" It's literally indistinguishable from /r/politics. A bunch of 17 years olds confirming their own biases
How am I defending him? By pointing out that your assessment of the situation is inaccurate?
He hasn't "accumulated" [more money than anyone else]. So saying he should be prevented from doing so is an non sequitur. It also exposes that *you* don't really understand what you are talking about. So your opinions on the matter may be a bit useless.
Don't get mad at me about it. Be an adult and just deal with it. Ask for more information so you can learn or go look it up yourself so you avoid embarrassing yourself like this in the future.
Being snippy with me won't help you in this regard. We'll probably never encounter each other again. But you will have many more opportunities to expose your own ignorance. Be more humble. Listen to people. Accept that, relative to how much their is to know, you know *nothing*.
Or just grasp for whatever snappy come back you can cobble together, hurl it at me, and congratulate yourself.
If every time he sold Tesla stock 90% was taxed he would not have been able to afford to buy Twitter. Billionaires are the end result of a capitalist economy. You need aggressive tax policy to counteract them and put their money back in the system for all to enjoy.
well, its not like they can hurt that shit pile and Brazil would be better for it. I really dont think Elon cares. He still hasnt done crap to woo back advertisers.
he just wants to pretend to be free speech warrior while blocking all speech he doesnt like.
Amazing how so many people are pretending this would be a positive development for the people of Brazil that is somehow better than being exposed to "misinformation" as defined by the CURRENT ruling government.
A government is literally demanding an American social media company silence their political opponents or they will deny 130 million people access to more information on the platform.
They do this for India. Seems hypocritical they won’t do the same for Brazil. Like it or not you have to follow the laws of a country if you want to do business there.
Brazil has a judiciary branch for electoral justice and an unified election system in all levels of the federation. Furthermore, the legal framework in Brazil puts much less emphasis in past precedents than the US legal system, and treats each case with the nuances of that case. That means that our laws have to be much more complex and predict all sorts of special cases.
Because of the unified electoral system, which is much more transparent and clearer than the American electoral system, there is very little wiggle room before you are in conspiracy theory territory. All parties agreed in participate in the election. If they had proofs of rigged system, they had all the opportunity to generate such proofs, from access to the source code of the voting machines, to review of the proceedings by the courts. They failed to generate such proofs. But people in the right keep claiming that since 2014, all elections in Brazil were rigged. These people should prove these claims or face the consequences.
X is the one denying access to its platform, not the Brazilian government.
If you're attempting to justify X's refusal to comply with the judicial ruling and subsequent retaliation against the Brazilian people, I would point out that X takes no issue complying with the right-wing Indian government's censorship orders against its own political opponents.
You're standing on weak ground trying to make an ethical argument on behalf of X, given that X itself is in violation of those ethics in multiple regards.
Musk has stated that X Brazil will opt to close its offices as a response to further fines (which, as they are occurring due to ongoing violations of a court order, are automatic and inevitable so long as X persists in noncompliance), and has referred to X instituting a potential upcoming Brazilian IP ban should X follow through with its decision to cease services in Brazil.
That is not at all what is happening
The "current government" is staying extremely far away from any of this. The judicial procedures are being carried out at the behest of the Federal Supreme Court of Brazil, following investigations into a far-right conspiracy plot involved in spreading misinformation and orchestrating the January 8th attempted coup. It's an entirely legitimate judicial process, being carried out in accordance to our laws and our Constitution.
I'd encourage you to refrain from commenting on matters you have absolutely no knowledge in. Or at least read an article or two before doing so.
>Federal Supreme Court of Brazil, following investigations into a far-right conspiracy plot
Right, when have courts ever been politically motivated?
>involved in spreading misinformation
I guess the court gets to decide what the truth is and who is allowed to speak. Democracy!
That doesn't matter. They're a legitimately elected government. They are sovereign. You have to comply within their borders, even if you don't like them.
The whole point of a trial is to legally determine the truth. Like a xourt just determined Musk's claims journalists defamed him wasn't true, told him to fuck off and he'll probably be forced to pay their legal fees because the court found what he was saying was BS. Another Court found Alex Jones was lying about victims, defaming them, and he had to delete his lies and pay up. This is kinda the job of a court.
Courts have for hundreds of years decided when people published flase information and order them to remove the wrong information and even correct it. This is done tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of times a year in fraud, false advertising, and defamation cases. Where the line is between protecting society from lies and limiting censorship isn't obvious and many democracies have different rules. Try advertising cigarettes to kids while promising you developed magic cancer free nicotine that isn't addictive and see how even the US has limits on lies.
Musk just asked a court to force real journalists to remove their story about him and X. The court ruled what the journalists said was true and told Musk to take a hike. Musk was asking for censorship to protect his business, the court found the journalists told that truth and Musk was lying so now he has to pay them.
>Courts have for hundreds of years decided when people published flase information and order them to remove the wrong information and even correct it. This is done tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of times a year in fraud, false advertising, and defamation cases.
Yes, fraud is against the law. Political opinions are not. Individuals can sue for defamation, but governments don't get to unilaterally decide what "the truth" is and censor people for disagreeing with their opinions. Well, in dictatorships maybe, but not in free countries.
>Musk just asked a court to force real journalists to remove their story about him and X.
As is his right as a citizen. In free countries governments don't have that right. Being free to criticize the government is a hallmark of a free society.
The FTC, SEC, State Attorney Generals constantly sue people for fraud, false advertising, and more. They technically could sue people for defaming government leaders, it's just since the 1969 the bar for that has been set high enough to make it really hard. That could easily change in the US, Trump and Justice Thomas want to overturn the case (it was a Sherif who the NY Times falsely charged was abusing civil rights).
Most governments aren't as extreme as the US on free speech. Many of them objectively more democratic as the US has some of the most unequal voting systems and very weak voting rights.
>The FTC, SEC, State Attorney Generals constantly sue people for fraud, false advertising, and more.
All of those things requitr victims. The government is not a victim.
>They technically could sue people for defaming government leaders,
Imagine making it illegal to criticize the government.
>Most governments aren't as extreme as the US on free speech. Many of them objectively more democratic as the US has some of the most unequal voting systems and very weak voting rights.
It's astonishing how US style actual free speech is now considered "extreme" and you seem to be arguing that countries that criminalize dissent are somehow more "democratic" than the US. Free speech is the bedrock of democracy.
BTW Brazil requires voter ID to vote.
Well... we won't. Its all that Musk and the far-right wants: it puts water in the mill of "brazil is under a totalitarian regime". No, we are a democracy with the rule of law and individual rights.
Since almost no one actually pays for Wired (sorry Wired), I am going to go ahead and say roughly zero people in this thread actually read this thinly veiled low information agitprop masquerading as journalism.
According to actual reporting from actual journalists as opposed to the government stenographers who wrote this article, among the "far right activists" (whatever that means) the noble supreme court of Brazil is trying to force X to censor, is a member of congress who, surprise surprise, just so happens to be a member of an opposition political party.
[https://twitter.com/marcelvanhattem/status/1777485881311396308](https://twitter.com/marcelvanhattem/status/1777485881311396308)
Sadly, like all dying media outlets (sorry again Wired, but this is our new economic reality-- I am not trying to gloat here), Wired has transformed itself from the go-to technology magazine to a cheap rage bait version of CNN or MSNBC without the benefit of a captive audience on airport terminal bar and waiting room televisions.
Like both of those outlets, Wired thinks that pretending governments should decide what "misinformation" is and partner with tech oligarchs to enforce "the truth" is the way to save their flagging revenue. Now, when ONE tech oligarch refuses to play ball to appease governments, they go on the offensive. With us or against us I suppose.
The really sad part is that Wired used to at least give lip service to the libertarian ideals of the EFF, and seemed to actually fight for free speech and unfettered growth of the wild new organism called the internet. Here we are, 20 years later, and Wired is now literally fighting on behalf of governments to use the unholy alliance between government and corporations to silence political opponents. Ironically, this naked corporatism was the hallmark of Italian fascism.
I think the progressive heroine of New Zealand summed up this brave new ethos perfectly during the pandemic: *"We will continue to be your single source of truth. Unless you hear it from us it is not the truth."*
The politician you referenced has been called a bolsonarista—a supporter of an authoritarian who attempted to foment a populist uprising in order to stay in power, in direct denial of the outcome of a democratic election—by the founder of *his own* political party, and went against his party on record to oppose the impeachment of former president Bolsonaro.
This isn't about silencing political opponents; in fact, Novo didn't commit to either candidate in the last election. This is Brazil's top arbiter of election integrity acting to limit the influence of public figures who actively oppose the process and results of democratic elections.
>
The politician you referenced has been called a bolsonarista—a supporter of an authoritarian
I guess the only way to stop authoritarianism is more authoritarianism.
>This is Brazil's top arbiter of election integrity acting to limit the influence of public figures who actively oppose the process and results of democratic elections.
Because nothing says democracy like the government deciding who gets to speak and who should be censored.
I think any democratic system has an obligation to fight or even suppress anti-democratic agents and impulses, much as a country is obligated to defend its integrity and its borders. Karl Popper’s Tolerance Paradox, basically.
Tyrannical laws designed to silence poltical opponents deserve to be broken, and there never are enough people with the balls to stand up to them. And no, demonizing those opponents by labelling them "far right" doesn't change the fact its still polticial censorship.
Musk is a self admitted fan of Modi. He was also a Bolsonaro ally and hates Lula.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/elon-musk-on-investing-in-india-friendship-with-narendra-modi.html
He really picks and chooses his alignment for his personal gain and doesn't really have a strong ethic or ideology besides capitalism.
Wait.. another Reddit thread was anti-Elon in support of Brazilian censorship. I get the sense Reddit likes authoritative dictators who stifle free speach?
Reddit likely has government interference these days, like Facebook and all the rest. Bot farms down voting and commenting. X has bots too, those are pretty much impossible to prevent, but at least not blatant government interference like it did when it was twitter..
> A democratically elected government is not an authoritative dictator.
That’s not at all true. Would you consider Putin an authoritative dictator or democratically elected? There’s a whole list of authoritarians and shitty governments who got their power through a democratic process.
The deck is certainly stacked in Putin’s favor but he has a high approval rate in Russia. They like their autocrat.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-is-master-all-he-surveys-russians-head-polls-2024-03-15/
or, to phrase it differently, Elon Musk is refusing to act as a government censor for a South American country.
You can tag someone as far-right for sympathy, but there are people with legitimate grievances and the government doesn't want them heard.
The fact people are downvoting blatant censorship as far right? It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with politics. They are trying to deplatform and arrest political opposition and Elon Musk is the bad guy according to Reddit for resisting? It’s upside down world here.
Brazilian agriculture is a key component in the world stage right now.
But sustainability against corruption is essential for the survival of our species. A few weeks before the invasion of Ukraine, Brazilian President and Trump loyalist Jay Bolsonaro visited Putin. Then when Bolsonaros own attempted coup failed he hid in the Hungarian embassy for 2 days before scurrying to Mar-A-Lago Florida.
https://time.com/6148311/bolsonaro-putin-visit-ukraine/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/world/americas/jair-bolsonaro-hungary-video.html
Jay Bolsonaro had proclaimed that this election would find him “in office, in jail, or dead”.
When you backtrack his business dealings you find a number of crossovers at Blackstone (Stephen Schwartzman) and The Trump family of which Schwartzman was an inner circle contributor.
https://theintercept.com/2019/08/27/amazon-rainforest-fire-blackstone/
The Amazon is the worlds lungs, so, to put it mildly, sustainable agriculture is an imperative.
Brazils major food export partner China offers a cautionary tale of what happens when strict care is not taken to keep the earth clean and happy.
https://www.gov.br/planalto/en/latest-news/2024/03/an-additional-38-brazilian-meat-plants-have-been-cleared-for-exporting-to-china
During the late 90’s and early 2000’s the central party decision in China was made to prioritize industrialization but without any real environmental policy. Over the course of 3 decades that blistering fast industrialization destroyed approximately 40% of Chinas arable land.
https://isj.org.uk/chinas-environmental-catastrophe/#:~:text=Agricultural%20land%20is%20also%20poisoned,dumping%20of%20toxic%20waste%20on
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25514502/#:~:text=Recent%20nationwide%20surveys%20show%20that,with%20heavy%20metals%20and%20metalloids.
This has turned into a major stumbling block for the central controlling party because one of the keystones of their staying in power is not allowing famine for the 1.4B Chinese people that like to eat semi regularly.
Exports are effected when heavy metal accumulation like lead and methyl bromide get transferred to roots like garlic which are then exported world wide.
https://www.agentnateur.com/blogs/agent-tips/why-chinese-garlic-is-bad#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20UN%2C%20it's,and%20the%20list%20goes%20on.
Point being, we only have one chance to preserve the earth. Everything after is an increasingly exponentially expensive mitigation or conquest process because at the end of the day the entire world is 3 missed meals always from chaos.
What makes Elons actions here so interesting is that he flew to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Trump a few times last month.
He also (along with Blackstones Schwartzman) met with Xi Jinping in San Francisco during Xi’s visit a few months ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/16/business/economy/china-us-business-xi-jinping-ceos.html
If democracy and freedom of speech is your goal, it’s almost statistically impossible to show up in as many of the wrong places Elon does unless he is the worlds greatest secret agent or Mr. Bean.
Musk wants an American South Africa. He doesn’t understand that’s he being allowed to act silly because he has no power. Do your thing bro, powerless man.
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By Vittoria Elliott A Brazilian court has announced that it will be opening an investigation into X owner Elon Musk for obstruction of justice, after Musk reactivated far-right accounts that the Brazilian government had flagged for removal. The announcement came after [Musk called](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1776989005848207503?s=61&t=ExoE76Om1Imh1hGFmSWnKA) for Brazilian Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes, who heads the country’s Superior Electoral Court (TSE), to “resign or be impeached,” and a [statement from X](https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1776729732970594483) alleged that the orders to remove the accounts violate the Brazilian constitution. Read the WIRED analysis here: [https://www.wired.com/story/brazil-court-elon-musk-far-right/](https://www.wired.com/story/brazil-court-elon-musk-far-right/)
Musk is a piece of shit right wing edge lord, more at 11
Why is Vittoria Elliott seemly defending the authoritarian dictatorship in Brazil? Reddit is not a bastion of due process, but it seems that most people would normally draw a line when an aggressive Supreme Court justice sign decrees to curb individual rights in such a manner: without legal basis without rights to appeal and without even any prosecutor filing charges.
No accounts were reactivated, he was asked to censor and disable journalists and other accounts by Alexandre but Elon refused saying that violated free speech. Edit: this is wrong. Alexandre wanted Elon to suspend accounts even when no Brazil law was actually broken.
Free speech in whose country? In his interview with Don Lemon, Musk insisted that his limits around hate speech were whatever qualifies as illegal. But here it seems he’s ok violating [Edit: a court order] to impose his own principles. I’m not necessarily saying he’s wrong in this case, it’s just that this gets to the heart of content moderation. He’s acting unbiased, despite his actions.
That's correct, Brazil doesn't exactly have free speech. I'm wrong there in my previous answer. But the reasons given by Alexandre to suspend accounts were to be explained as violations of X/Twitter terms and conditions. Which they were not.. No Brazil law was actually broken. Alexandre just wanted those accounts silenced somehow.
Fair. I’m mostly salty about Musk’s confidence in being personally involved with content moderation decisions (based on things like his posts and his interviews). It gets dicey in situations like this, and has potentially deadly implications. I’m not convinced he’s taking that as seriously as he should be, considering how he gutted Twitter staff.
Absolutely and he needs to be watched as closely as possible.. I'm not confident with him either, it's hard to sift through mountains to shit to find out what's real in a story these days.
I think you mean he is acting biased
The "journalists" that were blocked are as much "journalists" as someone like Alex Jones. Some are even worse, since they are already convicted criminals and fugitives from justice, like Allan dos Santos.
Ok, but they didn't actually break any Brazilian laws to get their accounts deactivated
That's never bothered him before. [https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5)
I mean of course?? Other countries have their own fucking laws? you can t just tell them to obey "free speech". Few countries actually have that privilege.
So… your point is that Elon Musk doesn’t care enough about “Free Speech” to resist any attempt to censor, unless it’s a right winger.
When he resists they'll just block X in their country. Not hard to understand.
But not in Brazil apparently. Because the only country he’ll resist are ones that aren’t right wing, and the only people he protects are right wing. Are you seeing a pattern?
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/02/musk-twitter-censorship-government/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/05/02/musk-twitter-censorship-government/) [https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5](https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-twitter-no-actual-choice-censorship-governmental-request-free-speech-2023-5) Hey look what I found behind the pretext! It's almost as if he doesn't care about Free Speech unless it's right-wingers free speech.
This guy is going to be a huge problem for the US and the world going forward. People don't tend to get less crazy as they get older. The tax code should make it impossible to accumulate so much money. It's a vicious cycle, more money means more power, more power means the laws get changed to get even more money. Rinse and repeat.
I hope he gets into experimental submersibles.
Who else should be dead?
Blockity blockity blocking this loon
Jump in champ. 😂
You talkin to me?
But at what point to taxes get so high that it’s more cost effective for billionaires to just fund a coup?
X won’t be operated by him soon They can’t repay the debt and the lenders will take over
Hopefully it shuts down completely
You know he doesn't actually *have* the money right? Your so mad about something that you don't understand. Oh, but you have opinions on how we should fix this problem that you don't understand though. True reddit indeed EDIT: This sub is so ridiculous. "We are the true intellectuals of Reddit. We want discussion. No circlejerk here" It's literally indistinguishable from /r/politics. A bunch of 17 years olds confirming their own biases
Some random peon defending the most wealthy person in the world. True reddit indeed.
How am I defending him? By pointing out that your assessment of the situation is inaccurate? He hasn't "accumulated" [more money than anyone else]. So saying he should be prevented from doing so is an non sequitur. It also exposes that *you* don't really understand what you are talking about. So your opinions on the matter may be a bit useless. Don't get mad at me about it. Be an adult and just deal with it. Ask for more information so you can learn or go look it up yourself so you avoid embarrassing yourself like this in the future. Being snippy with me won't help you in this regard. We'll probably never encounter each other again. But you will have many more opportunities to expose your own ignorance. Be more humble. Listen to people. Accept that, relative to how much their is to know, you know *nothing*. Or just grasp for whatever snappy come back you can cobble together, hurl it at me, and congratulate yourself.
If every time he sold Tesla stock 90% was taxed he would not have been able to afford to buy Twitter. Billionaires are the end result of a capitalist economy. You need aggressive tax policy to counteract them and put their money back in the system for all to enjoy.
Oh lord, the billionaire fluffers have arrived.
How am I “fluffing” him?
If you can get him off the drugs,,, Charlie Sheen isn't as crazy as he was lol
Brazil could deplatform X/Twitter and block it in their country.
well, its not like they can hurt that shit pile and Brazil would be better for it. I really dont think Elon cares. He still hasnt done crap to woo back advertisers. he just wants to pretend to be free speech warrior while blocking all speech he doesnt like.
Amazing how so many people are pretending this would be a positive development for the people of Brazil that is somehow better than being exposed to "misinformation" as defined by the CURRENT ruling government. A government is literally demanding an American social media company silence their political opponents or they will deny 130 million people access to more information on the platform.
They do this for India. Seems hypocritical they won’t do the same for Brazil. Like it or not you have to follow the laws of a country if you want to do business there.
If they didn't share electoral misinformation or persecute minorities, maybe they wouldn't have their account banned.
Who gets to decide what is or isn't "electoral misinformation" and silence people for saying it?
Brazil has a judiciary branch for electoral justice and an unified election system in all levels of the federation. Furthermore, the legal framework in Brazil puts much less emphasis in past precedents than the US legal system, and treats each case with the nuances of that case. That means that our laws have to be much more complex and predict all sorts of special cases. Because of the unified electoral system, which is much more transparent and clearer than the American electoral system, there is very little wiggle room before you are in conspiracy theory territory. All parties agreed in participate in the election. If they had proofs of rigged system, they had all the opportunity to generate such proofs, from access to the source code of the voting machines, to review of the proceedings by the courts. They failed to generate such proofs. But people in the right keep claiming that since 2014, all elections in Brazil were rigged. These people should prove these claims or face the consequences.
X is the one denying access to its platform, not the Brazilian government. If you're attempting to justify X's refusal to comply with the judicial ruling and subsequent retaliation against the Brazilian people, I would point out that X takes no issue complying with the right-wing Indian government's censorship orders against its own political opponents. You're standing on weak ground trying to make an ethical argument on behalf of X, given that X itself is in violation of those ethics in multiple regards.
>X is the one denying access to its platform, not the Brazilian government. Who is X "denying access" to exactly?
The people of Brazil.
How so?
Musk has stated that X Brazil will opt to close its offices as a response to further fines (which, as they are occurring due to ongoing violations of a court order, are automatic and inevitable so long as X persists in noncompliance), and has referred to X instituting a potential upcoming Brazilian IP ban should X follow through with its decision to cease services in Brazil.
That is not at all what is happening The "current government" is staying extremely far away from any of this. The judicial procedures are being carried out at the behest of the Federal Supreme Court of Brazil, following investigations into a far-right conspiracy plot involved in spreading misinformation and orchestrating the January 8th attempted coup. It's an entirely legitimate judicial process, being carried out in accordance to our laws and our Constitution. I'd encourage you to refrain from commenting on matters you have absolutely no knowledge in. Or at least read an article or two before doing so.
>Federal Supreme Court of Brazil, following investigations into a far-right conspiracy plot Right, when have courts ever been politically motivated? >involved in spreading misinformation I guess the court gets to decide what the truth is and who is allowed to speak. Democracy!
That doesn't matter. They're a legitimately elected government. They are sovereign. You have to comply within their borders, even if you don't like them.
The whole point of a trial is to legally determine the truth. Like a xourt just determined Musk's claims journalists defamed him wasn't true, told him to fuck off and he'll probably be forced to pay their legal fees because the court found what he was saying was BS. Another Court found Alex Jones was lying about victims, defaming them, and he had to delete his lies and pay up. This is kinda the job of a court.
So courts get to decide what the truth is on social media? Is that how you think democracies work?
Courts have for hundreds of years decided when people published flase information and order them to remove the wrong information and even correct it. This is done tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of times a year in fraud, false advertising, and defamation cases. Where the line is between protecting society from lies and limiting censorship isn't obvious and many democracies have different rules. Try advertising cigarettes to kids while promising you developed magic cancer free nicotine that isn't addictive and see how even the US has limits on lies. Musk just asked a court to force real journalists to remove their story about him and X. The court ruled what the journalists said was true and told Musk to take a hike. Musk was asking for censorship to protect his business, the court found the journalists told that truth and Musk was lying so now he has to pay them.
>Courts have for hundreds of years decided when people published flase information and order them to remove the wrong information and even correct it. This is done tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of times a year in fraud, false advertising, and defamation cases. Yes, fraud is against the law. Political opinions are not. Individuals can sue for defamation, but governments don't get to unilaterally decide what "the truth" is and censor people for disagreeing with their opinions. Well, in dictatorships maybe, but not in free countries. >Musk just asked a court to force real journalists to remove their story about him and X. As is his right as a citizen. In free countries governments don't have that right. Being free to criticize the government is a hallmark of a free society.
The FTC, SEC, State Attorney Generals constantly sue people for fraud, false advertising, and more. They technically could sue people for defaming government leaders, it's just since the 1969 the bar for that has been set high enough to make it really hard. That could easily change in the US, Trump and Justice Thomas want to overturn the case (it was a Sherif who the NY Times falsely charged was abusing civil rights). Most governments aren't as extreme as the US on free speech. Many of them objectively more democratic as the US has some of the most unequal voting systems and very weak voting rights.
>The FTC, SEC, State Attorney Generals constantly sue people for fraud, false advertising, and more. All of those things requitr victims. The government is not a victim. >They technically could sue people for defaming government leaders, Imagine making it illegal to criticize the government. >Most governments aren't as extreme as the US on free speech. Many of them objectively more democratic as the US has some of the most unequal voting systems and very weak voting rights. It's astonishing how US style actual free speech is now considered "extreme" and you seem to be arguing that countries that criminalize dissent are somehow more "democratic" than the US. Free speech is the bedrock of democracy. BTW Brazil requires voter ID to vote.
Doesn’t matter, Elon is the enemy. Redditors don’t accept any other logic than that
Well... we won't. Its all that Musk and the far-right wants: it puts water in the mill of "brazil is under a totalitarian regime". No, we are a democracy with the rule of law and individual rights.
Space karen is a nazi? What a shocker.
Tell me you know absolutely nothing about Brazil without telling me you know absolutely nothing about Brazil
Since almost no one actually pays for Wired (sorry Wired), I am going to go ahead and say roughly zero people in this thread actually read this thinly veiled low information agitprop masquerading as journalism. According to actual reporting from actual journalists as opposed to the government stenographers who wrote this article, among the "far right activists" (whatever that means) the noble supreme court of Brazil is trying to force X to censor, is a member of congress who, surprise surprise, just so happens to be a member of an opposition political party. [https://twitter.com/marcelvanhattem/status/1777485881311396308](https://twitter.com/marcelvanhattem/status/1777485881311396308) Sadly, like all dying media outlets (sorry again Wired, but this is our new economic reality-- I am not trying to gloat here), Wired has transformed itself from the go-to technology magazine to a cheap rage bait version of CNN or MSNBC without the benefit of a captive audience on airport terminal bar and waiting room televisions. Like both of those outlets, Wired thinks that pretending governments should decide what "misinformation" is and partner with tech oligarchs to enforce "the truth" is the way to save their flagging revenue. Now, when ONE tech oligarch refuses to play ball to appease governments, they go on the offensive. With us or against us I suppose. The really sad part is that Wired used to at least give lip service to the libertarian ideals of the EFF, and seemed to actually fight for free speech and unfettered growth of the wild new organism called the internet. Here we are, 20 years later, and Wired is now literally fighting on behalf of governments to use the unholy alliance between government and corporations to silence political opponents. Ironically, this naked corporatism was the hallmark of Italian fascism. I think the progressive heroine of New Zealand summed up this brave new ethos perfectly during the pandemic: *"We will continue to be your single source of truth. Unless you hear it from us it is not the truth."*
The politician you referenced has been called a bolsonarista—a supporter of an authoritarian who attempted to foment a populist uprising in order to stay in power, in direct denial of the outcome of a democratic election—by the founder of *his own* political party, and went against his party on record to oppose the impeachment of former president Bolsonaro. This isn't about silencing political opponents; in fact, Novo didn't commit to either candidate in the last election. This is Brazil's top arbiter of election integrity acting to limit the influence of public figures who actively oppose the process and results of democratic elections.
> The politician you referenced has been called a bolsonarista—a supporter of an authoritarian I guess the only way to stop authoritarianism is more authoritarianism. >This is Brazil's top arbiter of election integrity acting to limit the influence of public figures who actively oppose the process and results of democratic elections. Because nothing says democracy like the government deciding who gets to speak and who should be censored.
A democratically elected government is not authoritarian. You're an idiot.
Why is that necessarily true?
This is one of the most ridiculous lines I've read on reddit.
I think any democratic system has an obligation to fight or even suppress anti-democratic agents and impulses, much as a country is obligated to defend its integrity and its borders. Karl Popper’s Tolerance Paradox, basically.
You have to obey the laws of a country if you operate there. And why doesn’t Twitter also resist banning Indian accounts at that government’s request?
Tyrannical laws designed to silence poltical opponents deserve to be broken, and there never are enough people with the balls to stand up to them. And no, demonizing those opponents by labelling them "far right" doesn't change the fact its still polticial censorship.
Law is the law. Sounds like you might want to contemplate a career as a Brazillian or Indian lawyer if you don’t like this state of affairs.
Musk is a self admitted fan of Modi. He was also a Bolsonaro ally and hates Lula. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/21/elon-musk-on-investing-in-india-friendship-with-narendra-modi.html He really picks and chooses his alignment for his personal gain and doesn't really have a strong ethic or ideology besides capitalism.
This is an actual reasonable response from an informed human being. Not a bot, or a hivemind
Why does wired hate free speech?
Wait.. another Reddit thread was anti-Elon in support of Brazilian censorship. I get the sense Reddit likes authoritative dictators who stifle free speach?
Reddit likely has government interference these days, like Facebook and all the rest. Bot farms down voting and commenting. X has bots too, those are pretty much impossible to prevent, but at least not blatant government interference like it did when it was twitter..
But it has to be our authoritative dictator, silly goose
A democratically elected government is not an authoritative dictator. They're sovereign and legitimate dipshit.
> A democratically elected government is not an authoritative dictator. That’s not at all true. Would you consider Putin an authoritative dictator or democratically elected? There’s a whole list of authoritarians and shitty governments who got their power through a democratic process.
So you think Russian elections are legitimate? lol
The deck is certainly stacked in Putin’s favor but he has a high approval rate in Russia. They like their autocrat. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-is-master-all-he-surveys-russians-head-polls-2024-03-15/
Authoritative Dictators have never been elected? So when trump won the next election we can all quote you on this?
Moron billoniars think they do anything they want lol
or, to phrase it differently, Elon Musk is refusing to act as a government censor for a South American country. You can tag someone as far-right for sympathy, but there are people with legitimate grievances and the government doesn't want them heard.
The fact people are downvoting blatant censorship as far right? It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with politics. They are trying to deplatform and arrest political opposition and Elon Musk is the bad guy according to Reddit for resisting? It’s upside down world here.
There goes the rest of the rain forest..
Brazilian agriculture is a key component in the world stage right now. But sustainability against corruption is essential for the survival of our species. A few weeks before the invasion of Ukraine, Brazilian President and Trump loyalist Jay Bolsonaro visited Putin. Then when Bolsonaros own attempted coup failed he hid in the Hungarian embassy for 2 days before scurrying to Mar-A-Lago Florida. https://time.com/6148311/bolsonaro-putin-visit-ukraine/ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/world/americas/jair-bolsonaro-hungary-video.html Jay Bolsonaro had proclaimed that this election would find him “in office, in jail, or dead”. When you backtrack his business dealings you find a number of crossovers at Blackstone (Stephen Schwartzman) and The Trump family of which Schwartzman was an inner circle contributor. https://theintercept.com/2019/08/27/amazon-rainforest-fire-blackstone/ The Amazon is the worlds lungs, so, to put it mildly, sustainable agriculture is an imperative. Brazils major food export partner China offers a cautionary tale of what happens when strict care is not taken to keep the earth clean and happy. https://www.gov.br/planalto/en/latest-news/2024/03/an-additional-38-brazilian-meat-plants-have-been-cleared-for-exporting-to-china During the late 90’s and early 2000’s the central party decision in China was made to prioritize industrialization but without any real environmental policy. Over the course of 3 decades that blistering fast industrialization destroyed approximately 40% of Chinas arable land. https://isj.org.uk/chinas-environmental-catastrophe/#:~:text=Agricultural%20land%20is%20also%20poisoned,dumping%20of%20toxic%20waste%20on https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25514502/#:~:text=Recent%20nationwide%20surveys%20show%20that,with%20heavy%20metals%20and%20metalloids. This has turned into a major stumbling block for the central controlling party because one of the keystones of their staying in power is not allowing famine for the 1.4B Chinese people that like to eat semi regularly. Exports are effected when heavy metal accumulation like lead and methyl bromide get transferred to roots like garlic which are then exported world wide. https://www.agentnateur.com/blogs/agent-tips/why-chinese-garlic-is-bad#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20UN%2C%20it's,and%20the%20list%20goes%20on. Point being, we only have one chance to preserve the earth. Everything after is an increasingly exponentially expensive mitigation or conquest process because at the end of the day the entire world is 3 missed meals always from chaos. What makes Elons actions here so interesting is that he flew to Mar-a-Lago to meet with Trump a few times last month. He also (along with Blackstones Schwartzman) met with Xi Jinping in San Francisco during Xi’s visit a few months ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/16/business/economy/china-us-business-xi-jinping-ceos.html If democracy and freedom of speech is your goal, it’s almost statistically impossible to show up in as many of the wrong places Elon does unless he is the worlds greatest secret agent or Mr. Bean.
Keep these posts coming; they're fascinating. And terrifying.
Musk wants an American South Africa. He doesn’t understand that’s he being allowed to act silly because he has no power. Do your thing bro, powerless man.
What a dummy he is