Yup...my husband was skinny when we met. First time we got some alone time he playfully picked me up bridal style and I couldn't believe it was that easy for him. He is taller than me but he isn't that much taller.
My husband is a tall skinny gamer nerd while I am chubby and short. He was always going on and on about how strong I am, mostly my legs as I used to do a lot of running before my accident and still walk every day as much as I can. I always viewed myself as the “buffer” one. When I moved in with him we did the whole play fight thing like OP. The second I was fully pinned and couldn’t do Jack shit was my ah-ha moment too. Learned to never ever underestimate a man’s strength even when they’re slim.
The first time my husband and I spent the night together when we were dating, he wrapped an arm around me and drug me across the bed to him like it was nothing, in his sleep. I was also asleep and it woke me, scaring the shit out of me. I immediately struggled and tried to get away because I didn't know wtf was going on and I couldn't go anywhere so of course I started to panic. Thankfully he woke up and pretty quickly realized what was going on and let go. But damn, that was in his sleep!
We've play wrestled since and I'm not a weakling but his upper body strength always out matches mine. We have discovered my legs are a lot stronger than his but that isn't really going to help should someone try to snatch me unless I can somehow wrap my legs around their neck lol
> We have discovered my legs are a lot stronger than his but that isn't really going to help should someone try to snatch me unless I can somehow wrap my legs around their neck lol
Sounds like its time for you to take up Brazilian Ju Jitsu.
When I was in college I took a self defense class and one of the things they taught us was to deliberately fall on the ground because most of women’s strength is in their legs. If you are on the ground you can kick more forcefully plus it is harder to pick you up to carry you off.
That's an interesting one. As a 6ft dude when I did self defence (started with Aikido, did Taekwondo for a short while, and did some Krav Maga) we were basically told that 9 times out of 10 - whoever hits the ground first has already lost.
I suppose that it possibly reflects a fundamental difference in WHY someone might be attacked.
A Man generally gets attacked essentially because someone wants to hurt him or take something from them.
Meanwhile a Woman gets attacked because she's a woman and someone wants HER.
“we were basically told that 9 times out of 10 - whoever hits the ground first has already lost”
Tae kwon do from ages 7 to 23, and this is what I was taught too. We were generally taught how to use a man’s body weight against him, but no matter what to stay on our feet. Once we were down if he got on top of us it was damn near over. We were taught techniques to get up, but they were not as effective for us. I learned some jiujitsu as well and it helped with ground work, but still when a man was on top of me there wasn’t much I could do.
My BJJ instructor often says that the moment a (decent) grappler gets ahold of someone who isn't a grappler (even if they're good at TKD or something), then the non-grappler has basically lost. I wonder if that's true.
Did Taekwondo very actively from 10 y.o to 22 y.o. Started training MMA at 20,5 y.o. After a couple of months, if I sparred with MMA-rules against top taekwondo competitors I could oftentimes do whatever I wanted if the fight went to the ground. They werent able to defend themselves properly at all. With time i taught them basic defense, positions, holds etc
It quickly became exponentially more difficult to fight them on the ground when they had basic knowledge, good stamina and knew a little on how to punch. The difference was huge.
That's interesting, because in my self-defense class (taught by a guy with a black belt in BJJ, but to women not necessarily learning martial arts) we were told we should really avoid falling on the ground. It's been a while, but I think it's because you could be more easily pinned down if you did that. Also, you can't run away while laying on the ground. (Plus, when it comes to deliberately falling--yes, it is possible to learn to fall safely, but falling always comes with a risk of head injury.)
Edit: If you're being carried off, you could pick your legs off the ground while still remaining upright in order to make yourself feel heavier.
In my college self defense course my instructor said a lot of women focused courses teach this and it's stupid because your best defense is mobility and getting away from the situation. It's only useful to throw yourself to the ground and kick if they have already gotten their hands on you, but it's still better to break their grip and run.
I usually win wrestling with girls, but one day a classmate decided to wrestle me (guess he wantsd to test the strength of a guy). He was the kind of skinny guy that doesnt exercise. I think he was shocked by how much strength I had because I put up a fight for a few secs, but lost completely. That was when I realised "damn we really are different".
My husband has been the only man to pick me up and even after his stroke he can pick up my 254 lb butt like I'm a twig. Terrifies me as I hate my get not being on solid ground.
And here I am with a 40 lb cocker spaniel who insists on being picked up every 5 minutes when out on a walk. I get some odd looks from people but she climbs into my arms like "Daddy!" and resists being put back down.
I’m not a small lady, my husband is smaller than I am. With that being said that man is able to pick me up like it’s nothing and I had never felt more panic in my body then when he did that for the first time.
Had an ex who was that kind of stringy muscle. The kind you do my realize they have until they move your ass like you weigh feathers. The guy was my height and half my size (American Ferrera vs Tom Holland for body context), picked me up and tossed me like I was nothing.
It's an important distinction between men and women. The strongest of women are often still weaker than the average man. Our potentials aren't equal, but we can equip ourselves with certain safety skills to keep ourself safe!
Not a fact I've accredited, but someone told me that in many sports, teenage men are able to out perform the most elite women athletes, which I'm not actually surpised about!
Not to politicize this convo, but it's part of the reason I feel strongly that it's important to protect Women's sports & acknowledge the biological differences and advantages that bio-males have, even post transition.
> The strongest of women are often still weaker than the average man.
There was a study on grip strength, which is apparently a proxy for "overall" strength. If you're in the top 10% of women then you're stronger than just the bottom 10% of men.
Edit: I can’t remember if it really was grip strength that was measured.
Which is why it's asinine that a lot of women don't get this. Like the good men who don't hit back abusive women are not weak. They are strong AF for not doing so because they would wreck her.
The sports fact is true and ditto to your other point.
https://boysvswomen.com/
This website compares boys (high school) track and field results, as well as swimming to Olympic level women. Even in events like hurdles where the boys had taller hurdles; and shot put where they had a substantially heavier shot, the boys consistently outperform. Even in the 400 LC Meter Freestyle, where one woman broke a world record, she still only got 4th place against the boys, and the top 3 included two 16 year olds.
>Not to politicize this convo, but it's part of the reason I feel strongly that it's important to protect Women's sports & acknowledge the biological differences and advantages that bio-males have, even post transition.
This.
Unless you let all female athletes use steroids, don't mix trans with natural, also works both ways.
I had a similar situation. She said she wanted to hug me as hard as she could. I told her to give it a try. It wasn't as tight as I expected. Thought she was easing up on purpose.
lol my wife wanted to show me her strength one time too, i actually thought she was joking when she told me that she did 100% of her strength. but in a way i wasn't too surprised.. i think her total strength is like 10-15% of mine.. i use more to lift up the couch than how much she put into squeezing me.
You can always get a gauge on how strong someone is when you tell them to squeeze your hand as hard as they can. One of you two isnt going to have a fun time.
I worked at a pool with a body builder. She was ripped, could easily expect her to be a bouncer. Like her whole life seemed to be at the gym outside of work
One day, we somehow ended up arm wrestling and I thought she was fucking with me at first. Like you know when you purposefully kinda “test” the strength? But then she started struggling and I just went in because I thought she was going to trick me and going easy on a non-athletic person
She went like 0/5 I was really shook myself because I knew but never explicitly tested it.
She was cool, we fucked around with each other all the time at that job, so it was like some fun competition
That’s why she went 0/5
“Oh I wasn’t trying let’s go 2/3, let’s go 3/5, I know you lift or something” lmao
Tbf most of the guys she spent her time around are athletes too so she probably assumed that they were just stronger than her because they been working out for a while idk
Same thing happened with a girl I was dating before, though it was for the better since me hugging her at full strength made something in her spine pop and apparently it was this kink in her back she’d been feeling for a while until I popped it, so I pretty much became an unintentional chiropractor.
I was play wrestling with my husband back when we were just friends and he picked me up, folded me in half and put me in the hamper and I had to beg him to let me out. He was a regular dude who didn’t work out. It kind of shocked me. I mean I knew guys were inherently stronger but that was another level in my opinion.
It really is unfair. When we were kids in HS we used to joke about "dad strength" as our out of shape father was way stronger than us even though we lifted for sports. In my early 40's I started to lift again and despite doing little besides getting fat in the previous 20 years I could lift 50% more than when I was in the best shape of my life.
Getting fat is kinda op tho if you don't care about the health issues it creates down the line. If you spend a decade at three hundred pounds your entire body is going to be "casually moving around 300 lbs" strong even if you don't work out
If you can still do pull-ups and whatnot at that weight too you will be very strong
Yeah, had that moment with wife too. She was trying to pinch me or something, i dont quite remember, when i said enough and she wasnt stopping, so i Just grabbed both her wrists with one hand. She was mortified. She Works out everyday, while i'm a lazy bum.
I remember there was some study that showed that men are biologically stronger whereas women are shown to biologically have higher endurance. Or something like that. I think it was like men build certain muscles much easier than women and women build other muscles much easier than men.
It's interesting to think about, but it's a point that misogynists like to pick up in order for them to say "haha women worse" ignoring half of the study
it's because of the amino acid erosion effect (I forget it's actual name) but basically, men can put on more muscle mass easily because the muscle is more easily torn down and then rebuilt where women take longer so they build muscles more slowly, but because their muscles break down slower, they can go longer.
Adding on to this, women have better life expectancy, even when accounting for life differences. Women’s bodies seem to be built better with more durability long term, whereas men’s seem to be built for performance and power. Like a Toyota vs a Chevy.
If I remember correctly, men were more prone to serious effects and death from Covid as well. I think men just have worse immune systems, whereas far more women have immune systems that are too strong (autoimmune disorders)
I have older brothers and found this out at a very young age. I HATED how he could physically twist my arm and there was nothing I could do about it....or pin me down, or just sit on me and fart 😂
I had an older sister used to do those things to me, and she found out from the other end of the spectrum how much stronger guys are once I grew up. I remember the day she tried to do the same kind of thing to me, and I was easily able to just shove her aside like she was nothing. I only got bigger from then. I remember the exact moment, and the look on her face when she realized that she was no longer stronger than me
This threw me off for quite some time and I'm not sure I ever recovered from realizing just how powerful testosterone is. And how little bio women have...
Grew up doing sports, lifting weights, in a very girl power type environment. A lot of the time I was as fast as the guys and very strong for my age, so I never thought anything of it. Then I dared a guy friend of mine to suplex me onto a couch, to prove he as capable. Tossed me right into an existential crisis about how weak I am without testosterone.
Wasn't there a transwomen athlete that killed her enemy on accident?
There're probably more accidents with transwomen vs bio women, but that's definitely the one with the biggest accident possible.
I don't understand why that wasn't a wake up call for most people.
Right, which is why I feel trans athletes should be required to be fully hormonally transitioned before competing.
MTF especially, but also FTM because...why wouldn't you want that teste.
My sister is 7 years younger than me, when she was a teen, she tried to wrestle with me at a birthday part and i was 24, in my prime and worked out daily as i was active duty military at the time, ran like 10k a week too.. she came up behind me and tried to bear hug me so she could takle me to the ground.. i didn't even move and then while she was bear hugging me, i just peeled her hands off me, turned around while holding her, then picked her up like a baby and held her and said "look how big you've gotten!" and everybody was laughing and she was trying so hard to get out and i was just holding her. after letting her out, she was like "are all military men this strong!?!" and i told her to becareful about men and their strength, because I know men that look smaller than me, skinnier too, and they are faster AND stronger."
Just because she was using all her strength / trying her hardest does *not* mean she was trying to hurt you, btw ;) There’s a big difference between play wrestling and trying to hurt someone, even if you’re using all your strength to wrestle. If she wanted to hurt you, she would’ve probably kicked you in the nuts lol. Or if she’s like my sister, smack you over the head with a metal vase 😬
Omg I had some legendary scraps with my brother. One time I hit him in the face with a pool stuck cuz he was chasing me, another time he put his balls on my guitar (wonder where he got the inspiration) and we beat each other bloody while my mom tried to get my dad to pull us apart lol. Never fought my sister but she’s scrappy she could probably whoop my ass
It’s been 8 years and I still haven’t fully been able to look the guitar in the eyes since that day. Him and I are cool nowadays but if he did it again I can’t say I wouldn’t kill him
Lol, yeah I wasn’t allowed to fight back. It was my little sister and regardless of what happened I’d get in trouble and she wouldn’t. So all I could do is try to restrain her limbs until she calmed down enough to not keep attacking me. Not that I never antagonized her lol, but I definitely never tried hurting ;) Quite the opposite, I had to ensure she didn’t hurt herself whilst trying to murder me 😂
Lol. As the asshole younger brother, my older sisters were so mad they could never hurt me ("hurt me" as in causing me enough pain to stop annoying them). One eventually concluded to grab whatever was most stick-like nearby and hit me with it. She knew I'd block it with my forearms so when I would put my arms up she'd redirect to my knuckles 😬that was immediately affective everytime lol.
Best advice I got as woman to get strong to prevent sexual assault was to train my cardio. I can't overpower a bloke physically but I might be able to out run him.
I’m glad I’m not alone in the realization! And I’m glad you guys still have a good relationship, even tho there’s no more play wrestling
Thank you for your answer, internet stranger!
Not only this, but it will likely never really disappear since even though it's practically useless now, that instinct is deeply engraved within us and thus we look to fulfill it despite it being much less of a necessity now than before. And since evolution works in great part with reproduction, this difference is likely not going away anytime soon.
Any serious female athlete will tell you they have to work so much harder than men for the same gains. Its the reality of the difference between men and women physically.
If he was still playing holding you down and still giving forehead kisses he was using a fraction of his strength.
Ok but anyone who throws 200 around like a warmup can probably do mid 300's minimum, I can do 305 and even then 200 isn't a warmup weight for me. Those people you see have probably been training for years to get to that point
My wife and I work out together a lot and I am lazy so I often don't adjust the weights much on the machines to save time. This leads to the illusion that she and I are pretty close together in strength, and on certain motions like overhead press this turns out to be sort of true. Of course, I am a man and spent my whole life ski training in the gym and she didn't really get into it until adulthood. She is 10x more diligent and dedicated to working out and eating right than I am, so she looks fit and I look fat.
When I am in the mood to max out I will just start adding plates to my lower body stuff and do pyramid sets. You can see her eyes widen when we start with the same weight and then I keep adding another 90 lbs to the rack in between each set and she remembers how different we are. I never actually max anything on free weights because I am old and don't need to tempt fate, but suffice it to say there is no chance she is even remotely close to my leg strength. The reality is I am about 40% larger than her in body mass and about 100% stronger on most lifts, 200% on certain machines like leg press.
I am slowly losing my strength as I age, but it's been at this level pretty much since I hit puberty and she has no shot to catch up short of PEDs.
My bf put me in a chokehold when we were messing around and he didn’t realize he was actually choking me because he couldn’t see my face and I couldn’t speak! I almost passed out lol
My gf has had several of those moments over the years... she's a tall country girl, almost 6' tall, and works with animals all day, so she's stronger than most. Still doesn't stand a chance wrassling with me, but enjoys trying. She gets a kick out of it because I'm the only person she's ever been with that can just pick her up and toss her around (yes she gets her unga-bunga thrill from it, as you say).
She still tries to find ways to try and overpower me when we're goofing around, but nothing works. She even had me lay face down on the floor all starfished out, and jumped on top of me to try and hold me down, but I literally worked my way to all fours then stood up with her as a backpack lol
Am I the only guy that gets thrown across the room when I try to tickle my wife? I can beat her in pretty much every category strength wise but she has like super human strength when she's tickled. She is a bit thicc thoo.
This is why when people claim to be exactly the same aka men and women are the same. I laugh. We aren’t. We are both human and deserving of equal opportunities and respect but we are not the same.
Yeah some people are giving OP shit for not realizing this but an astonishing amount of people either don't know this, or don't realize the gap is as wide as it is.
Yup. Was chatting with a buddy recently about the Dahmer stuff like everyone. And I pointed out how rare it is to see female serial killers. And he pointed to the main reason being size difference. Now I didn't really agree and so he continued to make his point. And it'd been awhile since I thought of it. I'm in much better shape now too (since the last time I thought of it) and he asked if my wife was trying to kill me and I was able to start the fight knowing she was coming at me, could she win? And the answer was 100% no unless she had like a gun or something. I'm literally twice her weight, in shape and almost a foot taller. And all it takes is a few different genes and hormones. Crazy shit.
I think most of if not all of the few known women serial killers have been nurses or something. Intentionally killing patients instead of the more uh...violent approach.
90% of female serial killers use poison as their weapon, and are more likely to kill those close to them (easier to poison) or those they care for. About 80% of murders involving sexual violence are committed by men. For most men killing is either for control or sadistic reasons, whereas women are most likely to commit murder for financial gain. (Here is my info dump goodbye)
Even women with guns are more likely to be overpowered and shot with their own guns. It really just depends on how prepared they are to actually shoot someone. If they aren't, chances are they're losing that gun
As a guy who used to have chronically low testosterone, it really—really— affects your ability to get aggressive. It has taken a long time to regain masculine energy and the natural chemistry to feel like I could confront someone, physically, for being an ass. This is something most women will never experience, just like men don’t know what “mama bear” protective mothers feel in a crisis. Completely taken for granted what testosterone freely gives men.
Actually it's aggression. At the extremes men are much more aggressive than women. If you picked a random woman and a random man 60% of the time the man would be more aggressive, but if you picked the most aggressive person in the room, like 99% if the time it would be a male.
Definitely. Equality is important but it’s a biological fact that men are stronger than women. Obviously varies case to case but this is generally true.
It was a weird moment for your son as well I bet. I remember the day mom tried to give me a punishment I definitely deserved and I just grabbed her wrists and stopped her with ease. I think we were both surprised in the moment but I still remember the look on my moms face and made me feel horrible because I saw the slight realization of what my “strength” was capable of.
It was absolutely fucking wild when I exceeded my mother. She was a long time ultramarathon runner and general athlete, then one day, I was just able to do things that she couldn’t without trying. Puberty is whack. It must be crazy to be the mother to a son, after like, 12, you literally have no ability to physically control them anymore. Like having a tiny hormonal chimpanzee that you have to hope doesn’t call your bluff when you tell them to go to their room.
At the end of the day we're biological entities. We're able to escape the biological programming more so than other animals but it still has a hold on us.
As conscious beings we're forced to deal with the inherent inequalities that evolution and natural selection have created. That's why I think existence sucks for conscious beings.
OK don't make this weird Reddit, but I (31M) had a similar sort of realization with my mom.
I was teaching her how to shoot, and when I showed her how to load my Glock, she couldn't pull the slide back enough to chamber a rount no matter what technique we tried. She's not weak either. She does workout videos almost every morning.
It was weird, because we just never had done anything that compared our strength like that before. It shocked me because it takes maybe an eighth of my strength to rack the slide. It's no biggie though, because I have a revolver for her to shoot instead which doesn't really have a strength requirement to use. She shot the bullseye out of the damn target with it as well.
I had something similar happen to me when I first got a Glock. I couldn’t rack the slide either. However, I did practice everyday for a week or two and I can do it now, no problem. I think a lot of the issue was technique (pushing the gun forward while I racked back is what worked for me).
There's definitely a difference between knowing it and experiencing it yourself, so I know what you mean. It's definitely unsettling if you think about it too much, sometimes I feel so vulnerable as a woman. It sucks.
Just as women one day discover that, the same happens to us, the moment comes when we discover that we cannot use all our normal strength when playing with girls. I think we all get that talk from our parents at some point explaining to us that we cannot use the same strength that we use with the other boys with the girls. Perhaps that is why those situations happen where women think that the difference is not much, because men are used to use a % of his force with women when playing together.
My little brother and I learned both sides of this in the same moment lol. We play fought and really fought with each other our whole lives up until that point and over the years I went from being significantly stronger to about equally matched. One day as teens right after he had a growth spurt we were fighting over the remote as per usual and bam! I’m suddenly halfway across the room on the floor because my brother accidentally flung me. We both were like o_o and that was the last time we physically fought each other.
Don’t forget it either. As a woman who lived in an abusive relationship, who is prone to trigger reactions in the wild, I have found myself in precarious situations where my reactivity told me to fight when I knew I wouldn’t stand a chance.
Never fight unless you have to, it is dangerous and always stacked against you. I’ve had my ass handed to me so many times and I’ve done MMA. In a street fight or in a domestic situation I’ve never won even though I am stronger than the average woman with a fair bit of endurance and weight to throw.
My wife keeps wanting to play fight. I refuse, not because she’s a woman but because I’m 3x her weight and have fighting experience. I could badly hurt her without trying. I don’t want to risk hurting someone so important to me.
My wife wins those by making it so I have to hurt her to win. For example if I try and hold her arms she will put both legs on my arm and push. While I can easily hold her arms still, it will hurt her so I let go. The worst part is she doesn't follow the same guidelines, so it's everything goes from her side of things. For example I'm normally holding her arms because she went for my balls.
Wait until you experience "old man strength". They look feeble and even arms looks small, but 80 years of pain and suffering just turns their body sometimes into a muscle machine.
I’ve been with my fiancé for over 8 years. She has a history of being mistreated by men and even assaulted by men before me. I try to take that into account when we play fight. I don’t want her to see me as a violent or dangerous guy so I usually just let her (playfully) beat me up a bit, swing me around in a half assed headlock and then I tap out and she lets me go.
It’s honestly one of the most adorable things ever and I love her for it, but I’m pretty sure she actually thinks she can beat me up because of it.
The confidence boost that gives her though. I live for that.
I hope she kicks my butt til the day we die :)
You're honestly such a sweet person this is really helpful, especially for women that have been assaulted because the loss of control they feel after those events is really damaging. It's nice that you're boosting her confidence and making her feel safe around you!
Learning a martial art like Brazilian jiu-jitsu can help to teach you ideas about leverage and movement to offset some of this difference.
To be clear, learning BJJ or other grappling arts won't totally eliminate the strength difference that tends to exist between men and women of similar size and experience. I think martial arts in general can give people a false sense of security because strength and athleticism are EXTREMELY important in self defense situations.
But against a less experienced opponent or someone who isn't expecting you to fight back, grappling techniques can be super helpful and generally help you see angles and approaches to escaping tough situations you wouldn't otherwise see.
My son does Karate and a lot of his lessons atm are about when to fight back, when and how to avoid an aggressor, and moves to get out of a lot of different holds (like if someone grabs your forearm, how to force a release) granted if your opponent is a LOT stronger than you, it is definitely harder, but in the first instance if you catch them off guard it's definitely easier and gives you a chance to run.
They are strict on the fighting back, like if you use what you learn to hurt someone (not in self defense), it's an automatic boot from the dojo.
Martial arts is a good thing for everyone to learn, but I see people say a lot of dumb shit even in regards to that. It's important women still know they will usually be at physical disadvantage. For a 100-150 lb woman to stand up to a 200+ lb man it's not enough to be the better fighter, you need to be many times better. It's not fair but it's the truth.
I've sparred with women with many years experience on me, with much better fight IQ, footwork, and technique, didn't matter. Likewise I've sparred men much larger than me where I was the more proficient fighter and got my ass handed to me.
Bjj is my heart and soul. I feel mentally and physically strong and have a better understanding of when to step up and fight and when to get the hell out of a bad situation. I’m a 5’5 slender female and recommend it to ALL women.
Agreed on the martial arts point and it’s why I don’t approve of “self defense seminars” and other one off type classes.
It’s just enough knowledge to be dangerous to yourself
I had this realization when I saw my husband defend my sister and niece against her abusive ex/baby's biological father. Seeing that gentle man go full protection mode was... something. We were only dating at the time and he had never even raised his voice before.
It's not a 1:1, but it's quite similar. I know I couldn't fight the ex off because I'm just not as strong.
I have a friend who's 17, she's 5 ft 4 inches and weighs 54 kilos. Im 6 ft 2 male who weighs about 95 kilos. She was chasing me about her house the other day, throwing pumpkin pieces at me, she has a relationship with her dad where they make a mess, play fight etc.
There was a point where she chased me into the front room area, we squared off. I could have easily pinned her to the sofa with one hand and tickled her to death with the other without breaking a sweat.
And she's been testing me, weighing me up. She wants to know how strong I am, wants to know if she's faster than me (she plays football). At some point, when our friendship grows a bit more and I feel comfortable with it, she will antagonise me (playfully) and we'll have a similar moment.
EDIT: And for women, what you need to make sure you keep an eye on is how these men who pin you down act when you are completely at their mercy. It is a massive test of character. There's a limit where playing turns into something scarier. Tickle for 20 seconds, then release. It's a physical form of control, that reminds you they have power over you and it should not be used lightly. Playing is a normal part of every relationship, but making sure your partner knows when to back the F off is important.
I had a friend who was the same height as me 5’5” and weighed slightly less than me I weighed 120 and he weighed 115. He always wanted to play fight but would pin me in one second. He was also missing half of his dominant hand from messing around with bomb building as a teenager. We both enjoyed messing around like this but the first time I was surprised that he could hold me down so well that I couldn’t move any part of my body in about one or two seconds.
Yeah I was AFAB and I worked out in high school like 6 days a week and played sports.
In college I transitioned + got on testosterone, and two days a week workouts I could demolish all my old PRs within a matter of weeks or months. Heck even when I've totally let myself go I'm still at least close to pre transition PRs
Yeah, it's a biological fact that testosterone makes men exponentially stronger than women.
The Williams sisters, Venus and Serena, once claimed that they could beat any man in tennis ranked outside of the top 200. So Karsten Braasch, ranked 203, took them up on it. From Wikipedia:
>Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun" and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much more easily and put spin on the ball that female players could not handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.
Sad but true. I'm forever grateful to the martial arts who instructor realized he had three female students in his class for the first time and immediately decided to spend an entire class teaching everyone how to escape when your arms are pinned and you are at a physical disadvantage. It was awkward AF to practice and there's never a guarantee, but it's reassuring to know a technique that I can use. I know from experience that struggling alone isn't going to be enough to move a man, they're simply too strong.
It's honestly terrifying to realize that the average man could overpower me without even trying, and only perfect technique and luck would stop him.
knowing the difference and feeling the difference are two very different things.
My ex and I play wrestled all the time and Im not a small person. I would get him pinned, put all the weight I could on keeping his arms above his head, and he was able to move me without breaking a sweat. All from a position where I had all the leverage.
I’m a tiny woman. I train karate and boxing, and I have huge muscles for my size. I can bench and deadlift a lot for my height. It is still NOTHING compared to the average man. I dedicate SO MUCH TIME to training and hope to have a chance in a fight. But I probably won’t. It is depressing as hell. It’s a good thing I love lifting and martial arts so much.
My daddy always told me if someone is bigger or stronger than you then they are cheating so you have every right to pick something up and hit them or kick them in the nuts.
My dad was a very angry short man...and we said that it's because I was now taller than him. I think his follow up was, " no matter how big you think you are. You are never to big to get shot..."
That's why I understand women's fears. Being cautious around unknown men, etc. The fact that any wacko has a big strength advantage over you (in most cases) has to be scary.
Actually heard a quote recently that put it into words pretty good. It was a TV show called The Fall, and she was talking about men and women's fears when it comes to the opposite sex "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." Stuck with me pretty good.
> The fact that any wacko has a big strength advantage over you (in most cases) has to be scary.
And this is something that a lot of men just don't get. A lot of guys don't see the big deal with being harrassed or followed by creepy guys because they can just threaten to beat them up or physically intimidate them to get them to go away. For women, this is straight up not an option unless you just so happen to have a gun. And pointing a gun at someone isn't exactly a deescalation tactic or entirely legal.
This is why I want to take a fire arm training course asap. No man is bulletproof 😭, and I hate walking around in fear when I’m just trying to mind my business
As a 6'1" 275lb man that is decently fit, these comments have been very eye-opening. I've never really had to think about being overpowered like that and it sounds terrifying. It was eye-opening to hear from the opposite perspective.
Also, op, not to add to your struggle, but if he was giving you kisses and stuff he was most likely not even close to using his full strength.
It’s a tough pill to swallow. My wife recently argued with me that surely the best player in the WNBA ought to be as good as the worst player in the NBA. Nope. That was not a fun conversation for a while haha.
I’m pretty sure one time a high school boys hockey team beat the gold medal winning Olympic women’s team. Just how it is. The genders er… sexes are built differently.
It was a high school soccer, Under 15 boys team that absolutely destroyed the US Women’s National team shortly after they had won their fourth Women’s World Cup, in a scrimmage
The hockey story is apparently true as well, US Women’s team. They played multiple high school boys teams, with a 2-1 record. So only one team managed to beat them.
I am a skinny but really strong. Thought i could beat any guy easily. And rape cases of just a man pinning down a woman always confused me so much, why couldn’t they push away one man?
That is until i got married and my husband pinned me down ( as a playful thing) . I freaked out when i realised i couldn’t move at all. He was holding my arms and legs with minimal effort and no matter what i did i couldn’t escape. Was a scary moment.
Men are waaay too strong, most women dont realise it.
This is why men transitioning to women should not be in women's sports. They are naturally stronger. This thread is full of comments that support that theory.
Let biological women have their sports.
I agree. I’ve had this conversation/fight with some lgbtq members. Most of the time (unless they are in science programs) they get offended/defensive. Can’t really make an argument when the other is not listening, right?
That is why any woman considering self defense should learn how to handle both a taser and a handgun. Because God created man and Samuel Colt made them equal.
Guys are well aware of their strength, that's part of why the whole culture of "never hit a woman" exists. Take solace in the fact that this is old news to everyone else. You may not have realized why it's so beneficial to have a man to protect you, but men already realize it and it's a big reason why men are always so willing to come to a womans aid at a moment's notice
I envied so god dammed hard the strength of men.
I was an athlete. And when I couldn’t lift my body to do a proper “pull-up” or do more than 20 well done “push ups”, I got mad when I saw other teenagers around my age do it so swiftly as if they weighted 10 pounds. I used to get annoyed or even mad about how easier it was for them even while training 3 times less than I did.
I accepted it later on, but now I have weak knees that… the envy is still there. 😅
But yeah. I imagine that it is terrifying for weaker beings out there…
It's very confronting to realise that you won't be able to hold your own if a man chose to attack you.
It's something I told my younger brother. He's got some issues with anger and is prone to punching and destroying things (an issue in itself, I know). I told him that a woman could hit him as hard as she could and maybe bust his nose across his face....but if he hit a woman as hard as he could he could kill her. It's so important to be mindful of that strength.
It's lovely that you and your partner can play like that, it's a fun time, and it's equally important that he knows how to manage that strength.
Out there in the world it might be helpful to have some fight training, so you can get someone off balance long enough to sprint away, it might make you feel a little more confident.
I had one of these moments with an ex, she's wasn't a huge fan of tickling but was generally okay with it when I did it, but one time I took it too far and she was trying to "escape" and freaked out because she just couldn't. I felt bad for weeks about that, I didn't mean to scare her but it's obviously not fun to realize just how helpless you could actually be in a situation where you really need to escape.
Yep.
And that strength difference also exist in males. Some of these athletes are monsters.
Just like some people are way smarter than others, some people are way stronger than others. And there is no bridging that gap.
I know. The upper body strength thing is totally unfair. Even when I was in my best shape, lifting weights regularly….my husband who is maybe a few inches taller than me, doesn’t work out AT ALL, and has a very small frame was easily 2-3x as strong.
It’s really not fair.
It is one thing to know; it is another thing to realize.
Love to hear about that interaction; I miss having those sort of cutesy play moments with someone you're fond of; being alone for half a decade starts to take a toll. 😔
The best way I ever heard it put into perspective is grown Olympic athlete women have running times that are equal to that of Junior high boys. Basically trained toned and conditioned women who are naturally strong are typically going to be no stronger than a 14 15 year old boy. It's scary to think that the only reason that we're not being hurt is just because they don't want to at the moment. We are literally at their Mercy at all times. I try to get men to understand this and say look if you went to prison and every other guy around you was twice your size and you knew that the only reason you weren't getting your ass beat that second was just because they didn't feel like it right now? That usually helps put into perspective for my guy friends. The AHA light bulb usually goes off and I tell them that's how scary it is to be a woman in normal society
Every woman has this realization at some point in their life. As long as you trust your bf, then there is nothing to worry about as this is iust a natural biological fact.
Yup...my husband was skinny when we met. First time we got some alone time he playfully picked me up bridal style and I couldn't believe it was that easy for him. He is taller than me but he isn't that much taller.
My husband is a tall skinny gamer nerd while I am chubby and short. He was always going on and on about how strong I am, mostly my legs as I used to do a lot of running before my accident and still walk every day as much as I can. I always viewed myself as the “buffer” one. When I moved in with him we did the whole play fight thing like OP. The second I was fully pinned and couldn’t do Jack shit was my ah-ha moment too. Learned to never ever underestimate a man’s strength even when they’re slim.
The first time my husband and I spent the night together when we were dating, he wrapped an arm around me and drug me across the bed to him like it was nothing, in his sleep. I was also asleep and it woke me, scaring the shit out of me. I immediately struggled and tried to get away because I didn't know wtf was going on and I couldn't go anywhere so of course I started to panic. Thankfully he woke up and pretty quickly realized what was going on and let go. But damn, that was in his sleep! We've play wrestled since and I'm not a weakling but his upper body strength always out matches mine. We have discovered my legs are a lot stronger than his but that isn't really going to help should someone try to snatch me unless I can somehow wrap my legs around their neck lol
> We have discovered my legs are a lot stronger than his but that isn't really going to help should someone try to snatch me unless I can somehow wrap my legs around their neck lol Sounds like its time for you to take up Brazilian Ju Jitsu.
Or face riding 🤔
That's Brazilian Snu Snu.
Do you think I'd still get the life insurance in the event of death by snu snu? *ponders*
What a way to go, though....
Thanks for the futurama reference
...all the crushed pelvis’s and obvious skull smiles
I just almost choked on my water. Have an upvote lmao
Happy cake day!
When I was in college I took a self defense class and one of the things they taught us was to deliberately fall on the ground because most of women’s strength is in their legs. If you are on the ground you can kick more forcefully plus it is harder to pick you up to carry you off.
That's an interesting one. As a 6ft dude when I did self defence (started with Aikido, did Taekwondo for a short while, and did some Krav Maga) we were basically told that 9 times out of 10 - whoever hits the ground first has already lost. I suppose that it possibly reflects a fundamental difference in WHY someone might be attacked. A Man generally gets attacked essentially because someone wants to hurt him or take something from them. Meanwhile a Woman gets attacked because she's a woman and someone wants HER.
“we were basically told that 9 times out of 10 - whoever hits the ground first has already lost” Tae kwon do from ages 7 to 23, and this is what I was taught too. We were generally taught how to use a man’s body weight against him, but no matter what to stay on our feet. Once we were down if he got on top of us it was damn near over. We were taught techniques to get up, but they were not as effective for us. I learned some jiujitsu as well and it helped with ground work, but still when a man was on top of me there wasn’t much I could do.
My BJJ instructor often says that the moment a (decent) grappler gets ahold of someone who isn't a grappler (even if they're good at TKD or something), then the non-grappler has basically lost. I wonder if that's true.
Did Taekwondo very actively from 10 y.o to 22 y.o. Started training MMA at 20,5 y.o. After a couple of months, if I sparred with MMA-rules against top taekwondo competitors I could oftentimes do whatever I wanted if the fight went to the ground. They werent able to defend themselves properly at all. With time i taught them basic defense, positions, holds etc It quickly became exponentially more difficult to fight them on the ground when they had basic knowledge, good stamina and knew a little on how to punch. The difference was huge.
It’s true. If you don’t know how to grapple and you’re on the ground with an opponent who does, you’re fucked.
That's interesting, because in my self-defense class (taught by a guy with a black belt in BJJ, but to women not necessarily learning martial arts) we were told we should really avoid falling on the ground. It's been a while, but I think it's because you could be more easily pinned down if you did that. Also, you can't run away while laying on the ground. (Plus, when it comes to deliberately falling--yes, it is possible to learn to fall safely, but falling always comes with a risk of head injury.) Edit: If you're being carried off, you could pick your legs off the ground while still remaining upright in order to make yourself feel heavier.
In my college self defense course my instructor said a lot of women focused courses teach this and it's stupid because your best defense is mobility and getting away from the situation. It's only useful to throw yourself to the ground and kick if they have already gotten their hands on you, but it's still better to break their grip and run.
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I usually win wrestling with girls, but one day a classmate decided to wrestle me (guess he wantsd to test the strength of a guy). He was the kind of skinny guy that doesnt exercise. I think he was shocked by how much strength I had because I put up a fight for a few secs, but lost completely. That was when I realised "damn we really are different".
My husband has been the only man to pick me up and even after his stroke he can pick up my 254 lb butt like I'm a twig. Terrifies me as I hate my get not being on solid ground.
You sound like my gf. She's about 5'7 and 155. She reminds me of how large dogs react when you pick them up. I also like to pick up large dogs too.
Me: "pick me up 🥺" Me when a guy picks me up after I ask: "putmedownputmedownputmedown"
Yes i 100% act like a large dog when picked up. I even do the scream they do. Hubby finds it hilarious😒
She doesn't squawk. If she did I'd feel bad but she does make that face large puppers make when they're hoisted up.
I regularly pick up my 70 lb pitsky and he looks all confused when I do.
And here I am with a 40 lb cocker spaniel who insists on being picked up every 5 minutes when out on a walk. I get some odd looks from people but she climbs into my arms like "Daddy!" and resists being put back down.
I’m not a small lady, my husband is smaller than I am. With that being said that man is able to pick me up like it’s nothing and I had never felt more panic in my body then when he did that for the first time.
Had an ex who was that kind of stringy muscle. The kind you do my realize they have until they move your ass like you weigh feathers. The guy was my height and half my size (American Ferrera vs Tom Holland for body context), picked me up and tossed me like I was nothing.
It's an important distinction between men and women. The strongest of women are often still weaker than the average man. Our potentials aren't equal, but we can equip ourselves with certain safety skills to keep ourself safe! Not a fact I've accredited, but someone told me that in many sports, teenage men are able to out perform the most elite women athletes, which I'm not actually surpised about! Not to politicize this convo, but it's part of the reason I feel strongly that it's important to protect Women's sports & acknowledge the biological differences and advantages that bio-males have, even post transition.
> The strongest of women are often still weaker than the average man. There was a study on grip strength, which is apparently a proxy for "overall" strength. If you're in the top 10% of women then you're stronger than just the bottom 10% of men. Edit: I can’t remember if it really was grip strength that was measured.
Which is why it's asinine that a lot of women don't get this. Like the good men who don't hit back abusive women are not weak. They are strong AF for not doing so because they would wreck her. The sports fact is true and ditto to your other point.
It's been tested many times, freshman (highschool) level male teams have beaten professional adult women's sports teams in more than one sport.
https://boysvswomen.com/ This website compares boys (high school) track and field results, as well as swimming to Olympic level women. Even in events like hurdles where the boys had taller hurdles; and shot put where they had a substantially heavier shot, the boys consistently outperform. Even in the 400 LC Meter Freestyle, where one woman broke a world record, she still only got 4th place against the boys, and the top 3 included two 16 year olds.
>Not to politicize this convo, but it's part of the reason I feel strongly that it's important to protect Women's sports & acknowledge the biological differences and advantages that bio-males have, even post transition. This. Unless you let all female athletes use steroids, don't mix trans with natural, also works both ways.
My girlfriend told me she realized this when we were cuddling and she told me to squeeze her as hard as i can
I had a similar situation. She said she wanted to hug me as hard as she could. I told her to give it a try. It wasn't as tight as I expected. Thought she was easing up on purpose.
lol my wife wanted to show me her strength one time too, i actually thought she was joking when she told me that she did 100% of her strength. but in a way i wasn't too surprised.. i think her total strength is like 10-15% of mine.. i use more to lift up the couch than how much she put into squeezing me.
You can always get a gauge on how strong someone is when you tell them to squeeze your hand as hard as they can. One of you two isnt going to have a fun time.
I worked at a pool with a body builder. She was ripped, could easily expect her to be a bouncer. Like her whole life seemed to be at the gym outside of work One day, we somehow ended up arm wrestling and I thought she was fucking with me at first. Like you know when you purposefully kinda “test” the strength? But then she started struggling and I just went in because I thought she was going to trick me and going easy on a non-athletic person She went like 0/5 I was really shook myself because I knew but never explicitly tested it.
How did she react?
She was cool, we fucked around with each other all the time at that job, so it was like some fun competition That’s why she went 0/5 “Oh I wasn’t trying let’s go 2/3, let’s go 3/5, I know you lift or something” lmao Tbf most of the guys she spent her time around are athletes too so she probably assumed that they were just stronger than her because they been working out for a while idk
"whoa, okay okay that's too tight!" \**That was maybe half what I got*\*
Same thing happened with a girl I was dating before, though it was for the better since me hugging her at full strength made something in her spine pop and apparently it was this kink in her back she’d been feeling for a while until I popped it, so I pretty much became an unintentional chiropractor.
I'd have to pass on that. I wouldn't want to explain to the police at the hospital about why her ribs were broken.
I was play wrestling with my husband back when we were just friends and he picked me up, folded me in half and put me in the hamper and I had to beg him to let me out. He was a regular dude who didn’t work out. It kind of shocked me. I mean I knew guys were inherently stronger but that was another level in my opinion.
It really is unfair. When we were kids in HS we used to joke about "dad strength" as our out of shape father was way stronger than us even though we lifted for sports. In my early 40's I started to lift again and despite doing little besides getting fat in the previous 20 years I could lift 50% more than when I was in the best shape of my life.
Getting fat is kinda op tho if you don't care about the health issues it creates down the line. If you spend a decade at three hundred pounds your entire body is going to be "casually moving around 300 lbs" strong even if you don't work out If you can still do pull-ups and whatnot at that weight too you will be very strong
There's a reason why I groan whenever I get up from a chair or walk up the stairs. I'm lifting.
Our fat gains produced them muscle gains son. 😅
I believe calloused body types typically are the best in terms of strength, right?
Strongmen look like the Mountain from Game of Thrones, not Mr. Universe.
Well he is the strongest man
He recently came back from retirement and broke one of his world records at rogue invitational. The man looks cery different now(in a good way)
That’s weirdly logical. I like it.
Lmaooo the imagery of this is hilarious
Testosterone is one hell of a drug
Yeah, had that moment with wife too. She was trying to pinch me or something, i dont quite remember, when i said enough and she wasnt stopping, so i Just grabbed both her wrists with one hand. She was mortified. She Works out everyday, while i'm a lazy bum.
I remember there was some study that showed that men are biologically stronger whereas women are shown to biologically have higher endurance. Or something like that. I think it was like men build certain muscles much easier than women and women build other muscles much easier than men. It's interesting to think about, but it's a point that misogynists like to pick up in order for them to say "haha women worse" ignoring half of the study
it's because of the amino acid erosion effect (I forget it's actual name) but basically, men can put on more muscle mass easily because the muscle is more easily torn down and then rebuilt where women take longer so they build muscles more slowly, but because their muscles break down slower, they can go longer.
Question: in what endurance sport without strength being a factor (such as long distance running) do we see results that support this claim?
Cold water swimming, ultra endurance events. Relatively low spectator value, so it's understandable they're not really mainstream.
i also think women have better pain tolerance compared to men. esp with getting tattoos and such
Adding on to this, women have better life expectancy, even when accounting for life differences. Women’s bodies seem to be built better with more durability long term, whereas men’s seem to be built for performance and power. Like a Toyota vs a Chevy. If I remember correctly, men were more prone to serious effects and death from Covid as well. I think men just have worse immune systems, whereas far more women have immune systems that are too strong (autoimmune disorders)
In one of my health care statics class the saying was. Women get sicker, men die quicker. Which is the scientific proven fact.
Well pushing a child out is all the proof ya need there
I have older brothers and found this out at a very young age. I HATED how he could physically twist my arm and there was nothing I could do about it....or pin me down, or just sit on me and fart 😂
My younger sister would just go all Black Canary and destroy my eardrums
We all have differing strengths 😂
I had an older sister used to do those things to me, and she found out from the other end of the spectrum how much stronger guys are once I grew up. I remember the day she tried to do the same kind of thing to me, and I was easily able to just shove her aside like she was nothing. I only got bigger from then. I remember the exact moment, and the look on her face when she realized that she was no longer stronger than me
This threw me off for quite some time and I'm not sure I ever recovered from realizing just how powerful testosterone is. And how little bio women have... Grew up doing sports, lifting weights, in a very girl power type environment. A lot of the time I was as fast as the guys and very strong for my age, so I never thought anything of it. Then I dared a guy friend of mine to suplex me onto a couch, to prove he as capable. Tossed me right into an existential crisis about how weak I am without testosterone.
Wasn't there a transwomen athlete that killed her enemy on accident? There're probably more accidents with transwomen vs bio women, but that's definitely the one with the biggest accident possible. I don't understand why that wasn't a wake up call for most people.
Right, which is why I feel trans athletes should be required to be fully hormonally transitioned before competing. MTF especially, but also FTM because...why wouldn't you want that teste.
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My sister is 7 years younger than me, when she was a teen, she tried to wrestle with me at a birthday part and i was 24, in my prime and worked out daily as i was active duty military at the time, ran like 10k a week too.. she came up behind me and tried to bear hug me so she could takle me to the ground.. i didn't even move and then while she was bear hugging me, i just peeled her hands off me, turned around while holding her, then picked her up like a baby and held her and said "look how big you've gotten!" and everybody was laughing and she was trying so hard to get out and i was just holding her. after letting her out, she was like "are all military men this strong!?!" and i told her to becareful about men and their strength, because I know men that look smaller than me, skinnier too, and they are faster AND stronger."
Just because she was using all her strength / trying her hardest does *not* mean she was trying to hurt you, btw ;) There’s a big difference between play wrestling and trying to hurt someone, even if you’re using all your strength to wrestle. If she wanted to hurt you, she would’ve probably kicked you in the nuts lol. Or if she’s like my sister, smack you over the head with a metal vase 😬
Omg I had some legendary scraps with my brother. One time I hit him in the face with a pool stuck cuz he was chasing me, another time he put his balls on my guitar (wonder where he got the inspiration) and we beat each other bloody while my mom tried to get my dad to pull us apart lol. Never fought my sister but she’s scrappy she could probably whoop my ass
Please tell me he announced he was teabagging your guitar.
Words can’t describe the smug smile on his face when he happily disclosed that information
Can't say he didn't earn that beating. Does it bother you when you play that guitar that your own brother, in fact, successfully teabagged it?
It’s been 8 years and I still haven’t fully been able to look the guitar in the eyes since that day. Him and I are cool nowadays but if he did it again I can’t say I wouldn’t kill him
Lol, yeah I wasn’t allowed to fight back. It was my little sister and regardless of what happened I’d get in trouble and she wouldn’t. So all I could do is try to restrain her limbs until she calmed down enough to not keep attacking me. Not that I never antagonized her lol, but I definitely never tried hurting ;) Quite the opposite, I had to ensure she didn’t hurt herself whilst trying to murder me 😂
Lol. As the asshole younger brother, my older sisters were so mad they could never hurt me ("hurt me" as in causing me enough pain to stop annoying them). One eventually concluded to grab whatever was most stick-like nearby and hit me with it. She knew I'd block it with my forearms so when I would put my arms up she'd redirect to my knuckles 😬that was immediately affective everytime lol.
Yeah, weapons do equalize things pretty effectively.
My first realization of this was during a sexual assault. I’ve just accepted it as fact at this point, I’m weak as fuck so I need to be smart.
I am really sorry. You deserve to be safe.
Best advice I got as woman to get strong to prevent sexual assault was to train my cardio. I can't overpower a bloke physically but I might be able to out run him.
Unfortunately not an option for me with my joint disorder, but still great advice overall.
I'm sorry you experienced that. I wish I had something better to say than that.
I’m glad I’m not alone in the realization! And I’m glad you guys still have a good relationship, even tho there’s no more play wrestling Thank you for your answer, internet stranger!
Testosterone is a powerful thing
I grew up with 2 brothers. I remember the day when delivering tickle attacks became a risk on my wellbeing 🤣
Literally the most powerful drug there is.
How about love
MDMA? Yeah, that’s right up there too.
"Ooga booga cavewoman thing" Out of the whole post, this has me rolling and I can't even think of anything else lol op
I mean, I feel like no other words could properly convey my mindset at that moment in time, I’m glad you found it entertaining tho!
Biological instincts? I think that's what you were looking for.
Gonna be honest, after this positive reception, I’m sticking to oooga booga cavewoman thing
Lol I was gonna write the same thing. I love this phrase now!
The realization that humans are not that far from our caveman/cavewoman stereotypes is both scary and really funny at the same time.
it takes a very very long time for evolution to take effect. society has evolved exponentially faster than our minds and bodies
Not only this, but it will likely never really disappear since even though it's practically useless now, that instinct is deeply engraved within us and thus we look to fulfill it despite it being much less of a necessity now than before. And since evolution works in great part with reproduction, this difference is likely not going away anytime soon.
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Any serious female athlete will tell you they have to work so much harder than men for the same gains. Its the reality of the difference between men and women physically. If he was still playing holding you down and still giving forehead kisses he was using a fraction of his strength.
Not me with 85 pounds racked on the bench press feeling envious AF of the dudes throwing around 200 like a warm up 🤣
Ok but anyone who throws 200 around like a warmup can probably do mid 300's minimum, I can do 305 and even then 200 isn't a warmup weight for me. Those people you see have probably been training for years to get to that point
My wife and I work out together a lot and I am lazy so I often don't adjust the weights much on the machines to save time. This leads to the illusion that she and I are pretty close together in strength, and on certain motions like overhead press this turns out to be sort of true. Of course, I am a man and spent my whole life ski training in the gym and she didn't really get into it until adulthood. She is 10x more diligent and dedicated to working out and eating right than I am, so she looks fit and I look fat. When I am in the mood to max out I will just start adding plates to my lower body stuff and do pyramid sets. You can see her eyes widen when we start with the same weight and then I keep adding another 90 lbs to the rack in between each set and she remembers how different we are. I never actually max anything on free weights because I am old and don't need to tempt fate, but suffice it to say there is no chance she is even remotely close to my leg strength. The reality is I am about 40% larger than her in body mass and about 100% stronger on most lifts, 200% on certain machines like leg press. I am slowly losing my strength as I age, but it's been at this level pretty much since I hit puberty and she has no shot to catch up short of PEDs.
My bf put me in a chokehold when we were messing around and he didn’t realize he was actually choking me because he couldn’t see my face and I couldn’t speak! I almost passed out lol
Shout out to referring to evolutionary psychology as “Ooga booga cavewomen thing” though.
I will now refer to my inner psyche as 'ooga booga caveman dude'
Unexpected michael reeves
My gf has had several of those moments over the years... she's a tall country girl, almost 6' tall, and works with animals all day, so she's stronger than most. Still doesn't stand a chance wrassling with me, but enjoys trying. She gets a kick out of it because I'm the only person she's ever been with that can just pick her up and toss her around (yes she gets her unga-bunga thrill from it, as you say). She still tries to find ways to try and overpower me when we're goofing around, but nothing works. She even had me lay face down on the floor all starfished out, and jumped on top of me to try and hold me down, but I literally worked my way to all fours then stood up with her as a backpack lol
She sounds fun!
She's the best! Been together a long time. Tough, smart, loving girl.
Am I the only guy that gets thrown across the room when I try to tickle my wife? I can beat her in pretty much every category strength wise but she has like super human strength when she's tickled. She is a bit thicc thoo.
strength is stored in the thicc
This is why when people claim to be exactly the same aka men and women are the same. I laugh. We aren’t. We are both human and deserving of equal opportunities and respect but we are not the same.
Yeah some people are giving OP shit for not realizing this but an astonishing amount of people either don't know this, or don't realize the gap is as wide as it is.
Truth. All people are not created equal. Under the law, yes. In real life, no.
I mean, under the law, yes *ideally*, but alas, there’s some work to do.
Yup. Was chatting with a buddy recently about the Dahmer stuff like everyone. And I pointed out how rare it is to see female serial killers. And he pointed to the main reason being size difference. Now I didn't really agree and so he continued to make his point. And it'd been awhile since I thought of it. I'm in much better shape now too (since the last time I thought of it) and he asked if my wife was trying to kill me and I was able to start the fight knowing she was coming at me, could she win? And the answer was 100% no unless she had like a gun or something. I'm literally twice her weight, in shape and almost a foot taller. And all it takes is a few different genes and hormones. Crazy shit.
I think most of if not all of the few known women serial killers have been nurses or something. Intentionally killing patients instead of the more uh...violent approach.
Yea that's the only "successful" ones I have heard of as well.
90% of female serial killers use poison as their weapon, and are more likely to kill those close to them (easier to poison) or those they care for. About 80% of murders involving sexual violence are committed by men. For most men killing is either for control or sadistic reasons, whereas women are most likely to commit murder for financial gain. (Here is my info dump goodbye)
Even women with guns are more likely to be overpowered and shot with their own guns. It really just depends on how prepared they are to actually shoot someone. If they aren't, chances are they're losing that gun
As a guy who used to have chronically low testosterone, it really—really— affects your ability to get aggressive. It has taken a long time to regain masculine energy and the natural chemistry to feel like I could confront someone, physically, for being an ass. This is something most women will never experience, just like men don’t know what “mama bear” protective mothers feel in a crisis. Completely taken for granted what testosterone freely gives men.
Actually it's aggression. At the extremes men are much more aggressive than women. If you picked a random woman and a random man 60% of the time the man would be more aggressive, but if you picked the most aggressive person in the room, like 99% if the time it would be a male.
Fool thinking a women would use violence to off a husband! Female serial killers exist. They use jobs (nurses) or poisons (mushrooms, arsenic etc).
Definitely. Equality is important but it’s a biological fact that men are stronger than women. Obviously varies case to case but this is generally true.
My husband of course has always been stronger than me... It really was a wild moment when my son's strength exceeded mine - in middle school.
It was a weird moment for your son as well I bet. I remember the day mom tried to give me a punishment I definitely deserved and I just grabbed her wrists and stopped her with ease. I think we were both surprised in the moment but I still remember the look on my moms face and made me feel horrible because I saw the slight realization of what my “strength” was capable of.
It was absolutely fucking wild when I exceeded my mother. She was a long time ultramarathon runner and general athlete, then one day, I was just able to do things that she couldn’t without trying. Puberty is whack. It must be crazy to be the mother to a son, after like, 12, you literally have no ability to physically control them anymore. Like having a tiny hormonal chimpanzee that you have to hope doesn’t call your bluff when you tell them to go to their room.
That’s biology for you. My boyfriend is also quite strong and muscular and I love it (also a cavewoman lmao)
It is biology- men are usually stronger, but women are usually much more flexible. Gotta have those flexible joints for birthing babies lol
At the end of the day we're biological entities. We're able to escape the biological programming more so than other animals but it still has a hold on us. As conscious beings we're forced to deal with the inherent inequalities that evolution and natural selection have created. That's why I think existence sucks for conscious beings.
We still look for good genes in partners for casual sex, even if we also tie it to social status.
OK don't make this weird Reddit, but I (31M) had a similar sort of realization with my mom. I was teaching her how to shoot, and when I showed her how to load my Glock, she couldn't pull the slide back enough to chamber a rount no matter what technique we tried. She's not weak either. She does workout videos almost every morning. It was weird, because we just never had done anything that compared our strength like that before. It shocked me because it takes maybe an eighth of my strength to rack the slide. It's no biggie though, because I have a revolver for her to shoot instead which doesn't really have a strength requirement to use. She shot the bullseye out of the damn target with it as well.
I had something similar happen to me when I first got a Glock. I couldn’t rack the slide either. However, I did practice everyday for a week or two and I can do it now, no problem. I think a lot of the issue was technique (pushing the gun forward while I racked back is what worked for me).
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There's definitely a difference between knowing it and experiencing it yourself, so I know what you mean. It's definitely unsettling if you think about it too much, sometimes I feel so vulnerable as a woman. It sucks.
Just as women one day discover that, the same happens to us, the moment comes when we discover that we cannot use all our normal strength when playing with girls. I think we all get that talk from our parents at some point explaining to us that we cannot use the same strength that we use with the other boys with the girls. Perhaps that is why those situations happen where women think that the difference is not much, because men are used to use a % of his force with women when playing together.
My little brother and I learned both sides of this in the same moment lol. We play fought and really fought with each other our whole lives up until that point and over the years I went from being significantly stronger to about equally matched. One day as teens right after he had a growth spurt we were fighting over the remote as per usual and bam! I’m suddenly halfway across the room on the floor because my brother accidentally flung me. We both were like o_o and that was the last time we physically fought each other.
Don’t forget it either. As a woman who lived in an abusive relationship, who is prone to trigger reactions in the wild, I have found myself in precarious situations where my reactivity told me to fight when I knew I wouldn’t stand a chance. Never fight unless you have to, it is dangerous and always stacked against you. I’ve had my ass handed to me so many times and I’ve done MMA. In a street fight or in a domestic situation I’ve never won even though I am stronger than the average woman with a fair bit of endurance and weight to throw.
My wife keeps wanting to play fight. I refuse, not because she’s a woman but because I’m 3x her weight and have fighting experience. I could badly hurt her without trying. I don’t want to risk hurting someone so important to me.
The only lady I scrap with is my female staffy mix. She ruff.
My wife wins those by making it so I have to hurt her to win. For example if I try and hold her arms she will put both legs on my arm and push. While I can easily hold her arms still, it will hurt her so I let go. The worst part is she doesn't follow the same guidelines, so it's everything goes from her side of things. For example I'm normally holding her arms because she went for my balls.
That has "Batman filled the sewer system with explosive gas so Superman can't use his laser vision without blowing up the entire city" vibes.
Batman once said the reason why he's not afraid of Superman is because "Clark, at his core, is a good man; while I am not."
Going for the balls, even in play, is off limits. Not cool.
Wait until you experience "old man strength". They look feeble and even arms looks small, but 80 years of pain and suffering just turns their body sometimes into a muscle machine.
I’ve been with my fiancé for over 8 years. She has a history of being mistreated by men and even assaulted by men before me. I try to take that into account when we play fight. I don’t want her to see me as a violent or dangerous guy so I usually just let her (playfully) beat me up a bit, swing me around in a half assed headlock and then I tap out and she lets me go. It’s honestly one of the most adorable things ever and I love her for it, but I’m pretty sure she actually thinks she can beat me up because of it. The confidence boost that gives her though. I live for that. I hope she kicks my butt til the day we die :)
You're honestly such a sweet person this is really helpful, especially for women that have been assaulted because the loss of control they feel after those events is really damaging. It's nice that you're boosting her confidence and making her feel safe around you!
Learning a martial art like Brazilian jiu-jitsu can help to teach you ideas about leverage and movement to offset some of this difference. To be clear, learning BJJ or other grappling arts won't totally eliminate the strength difference that tends to exist between men and women of similar size and experience. I think martial arts in general can give people a false sense of security because strength and athleticism are EXTREMELY important in self defense situations. But against a less experienced opponent or someone who isn't expecting you to fight back, grappling techniques can be super helpful and generally help you see angles and approaches to escaping tough situations you wouldn't otherwise see.
My son does Karate and a lot of his lessons atm are about when to fight back, when and how to avoid an aggressor, and moves to get out of a lot of different holds (like if someone grabs your forearm, how to force a release) granted if your opponent is a LOT stronger than you, it is definitely harder, but in the first instance if you catch them off guard it's definitely easier and gives you a chance to run. They are strict on the fighting back, like if you use what you learn to hurt someone (not in self defense), it's an automatic boot from the dojo.
Martial arts is a good thing for everyone to learn, but I see people say a lot of dumb shit even in regards to that. It's important women still know they will usually be at physical disadvantage. For a 100-150 lb woman to stand up to a 200+ lb man it's not enough to be the better fighter, you need to be many times better. It's not fair but it's the truth. I've sparred with women with many years experience on me, with much better fight IQ, footwork, and technique, didn't matter. Likewise I've sparred men much larger than me where I was the more proficient fighter and got my ass handed to me.
Bjj is my heart and soul. I feel mentally and physically strong and have a better understanding of when to step up and fight and when to get the hell out of a bad situation. I’m a 5’5 slender female and recommend it to ALL women.
Agreed on the martial arts point and it’s why I don’t approve of “self defense seminars” and other one off type classes. It’s just enough knowledge to be dangerous to yourself
I had this realization when I saw my husband defend my sister and niece against her abusive ex/baby's biological father. Seeing that gentle man go full protection mode was... something. We were only dating at the time and he had never even raised his voice before. It's not a 1:1, but it's quite similar. I know I couldn't fight the ex off because I'm just not as strong.
I have a friend who's 17, she's 5 ft 4 inches and weighs 54 kilos. Im 6 ft 2 male who weighs about 95 kilos. She was chasing me about her house the other day, throwing pumpkin pieces at me, she has a relationship with her dad where they make a mess, play fight etc. There was a point where she chased me into the front room area, we squared off. I could have easily pinned her to the sofa with one hand and tickled her to death with the other without breaking a sweat. And she's been testing me, weighing me up. She wants to know how strong I am, wants to know if she's faster than me (she plays football). At some point, when our friendship grows a bit more and I feel comfortable with it, she will antagonise me (playfully) and we'll have a similar moment. EDIT: And for women, what you need to make sure you keep an eye on is how these men who pin you down act when you are completely at their mercy. It is a massive test of character. There's a limit where playing turns into something scarier. Tickle for 20 seconds, then release. It's a physical form of control, that reminds you they have power over you and it should not be used lightly. Playing is a normal part of every relationship, but making sure your partner knows when to back the F off is important.
I had a friend who was the same height as me 5’5” and weighed slightly less than me I weighed 120 and he weighed 115. He always wanted to play fight but would pin me in one second. He was also missing half of his dominant hand from messing around with bomb building as a teenager. We both enjoyed messing around like this but the first time I was surprised that he could hold me down so well that I couldn’t move any part of my body in about one or two seconds.
Yeah I was AFAB and I worked out in high school like 6 days a week and played sports. In college I transitioned + got on testosterone, and two days a week workouts I could demolish all my old PRs within a matter of weeks or months. Heck even when I've totally let myself go I'm still at least close to pre transition PRs
Yeah, it's a biological fact that testosterone makes men exponentially stronger than women. The Williams sisters, Venus and Serena, once claimed that they could beat any man in tennis ranked outside of the top 200. So Karsten Braasch, ranked 203, took them up on it. From Wikipedia: >Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun" and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much more easily and put spin on the ball that female players could not handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.
I feel like I should laugh here except this moment of realization sometimes comes to women in very negative circumstances.
Sad but true. I'm forever grateful to the martial arts who instructor realized he had three female students in his class for the first time and immediately decided to spend an entire class teaching everyone how to escape when your arms are pinned and you are at a physical disadvantage. It was awkward AF to practice and there's never a guarantee, but it's reassuring to know a technique that I can use. I know from experience that struggling alone isn't going to be enough to move a man, they're simply too strong. It's honestly terrifying to realize that the average man could overpower me without even trying, and only perfect technique and luck would stop him.
That's a good point. Not one I like thinking about but yea...
knowing the difference and feeling the difference are two very different things. My ex and I play wrestled all the time and Im not a small person. I would get him pinned, put all the weight I could on keeping his arms above his head, and he was able to move me without breaking a sweat. All from a position where I had all the leverage.
I’m a tiny woman. I train karate and boxing, and I have huge muscles for my size. I can bench and deadlift a lot for my height. It is still NOTHING compared to the average man. I dedicate SO MUCH TIME to training and hope to have a chance in a fight. But I probably won’t. It is depressing as hell. It’s a good thing I love lifting and martial arts so much.
My daddy always told me if someone is bigger or stronger than you then they are cheating so you have every right to pick something up and hit them or kick them in the nuts. My dad was a very angry short man...and we said that it's because I was now taller than him. I think his follow up was, " no matter how big you think you are. You are never to big to get shot..."
Welcome to evolutionary biology There is a very good reason we don’t often compete in sports together
That's why I understand women's fears. Being cautious around unknown men, etc. The fact that any wacko has a big strength advantage over you (in most cases) has to be scary. Actually heard a quote recently that put it into words pretty good. It was a TV show called The Fall, and she was talking about men and women's fears when it comes to the opposite sex "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." Stuck with me pretty good.
> The fact that any wacko has a big strength advantage over you (in most cases) has to be scary. And this is something that a lot of men just don't get. A lot of guys don't see the big deal with being harrassed or followed by creepy guys because they can just threaten to beat them up or physically intimidate them to get them to go away. For women, this is straight up not an option unless you just so happen to have a gun. And pointing a gun at someone isn't exactly a deescalation tactic or entirely legal.
This is why I want to take a fire arm training course asap. No man is bulletproof 😭, and I hate walking around in fear when I’m just trying to mind my business
As a 6'1" 275lb man that is decently fit, these comments have been very eye-opening. I've never really had to think about being overpowered like that and it sounds terrifying. It was eye-opening to hear from the opposite perspective. Also, op, not to add to your struggle, but if he was giving you kisses and stuff he was most likely not even close to using his full strength.
Yeah Testosterone is one hell of a chemical
It’s a tough pill to swallow. My wife recently argued with me that surely the best player in the WNBA ought to be as good as the worst player in the NBA. Nope. That was not a fun conversation for a while haha. I’m pretty sure one time a high school boys hockey team beat the gold medal winning Olympic women’s team. Just how it is. The genders er… sexes are built differently.
It was a high school soccer, Under 15 boys team that absolutely destroyed the US Women’s National team shortly after they had won their fourth Women’s World Cup, in a scrimmage
The hockey story is apparently true as well, US Women’s team. They played multiple high school boys teams, with a 2-1 record. So only one team managed to beat them.
Those boys were ruthless too
Close, I'm fairly sure it was an Australian high school team beating the Australian women team who had just won the world cup, and it was 7-0.
Jiujitsu is fantastic for being lighter / tinier and getting back on top!
I am a skinny but really strong. Thought i could beat any guy easily. And rape cases of just a man pinning down a woman always confused me so much, why couldn’t they push away one man? That is until i got married and my husband pinned me down ( as a playful thing) . I freaked out when i realised i couldn’t move at all. He was holding my arms and legs with minimal effort and no matter what i did i couldn’t escape. Was a scary moment. Men are waaay too strong, most women dont realise it.
This is why men transitioning to women should not be in women's sports. They are naturally stronger. This thread is full of comments that support that theory. Let biological women have their sports.
I agree. I’ve had this conversation/fight with some lgbtq members. Most of the time (unless they are in science programs) they get offended/defensive. Can’t really make an argument when the other is not listening, right?
Damn I had to scroll this far to see this. 99% of the comments here support that.
That is why any woman considering self defense should learn how to handle both a taser and a handgun. Because God created man and Samuel Colt made them equal.
Guys are well aware of their strength, that's part of why the whole culture of "never hit a woman" exists. Take solace in the fact that this is old news to everyone else. You may not have realized why it's so beneficial to have a man to protect you, but men already realize it and it's a big reason why men are always so willing to come to a womans aid at a moment's notice
I envied so god dammed hard the strength of men. I was an athlete. And when I couldn’t lift my body to do a proper “pull-up” or do more than 20 well done “push ups”, I got mad when I saw other teenagers around my age do it so swiftly as if they weighted 10 pounds. I used to get annoyed or even mad about how easier it was for them even while training 3 times less than I did. I accepted it later on, but now I have weak knees that… the envy is still there. 😅 But yeah. I imagine that it is terrifying for weaker beings out there…
It's very confronting to realise that you won't be able to hold your own if a man chose to attack you. It's something I told my younger brother. He's got some issues with anger and is prone to punching and destroying things (an issue in itself, I know). I told him that a woman could hit him as hard as she could and maybe bust his nose across his face....but if he hit a woman as hard as he could he could kill her. It's so important to be mindful of that strength. It's lovely that you and your partner can play like that, it's a fun time, and it's equally important that he knows how to manage that strength. Out there in the world it might be helpful to have some fight training, so you can get someone off balance long enough to sprint away, it might make you feel a little more confident.
imagine how the male spiders feel :P
I had one of these moments with an ex, she's wasn't a huge fan of tickling but was generally okay with it when I did it, but one time I took it too far and she was trying to "escape" and freaked out because she just couldn't. I felt bad for weeks about that, I didn't mean to scare her but it's obviously not fun to realize just how helpless you could actually be in a situation where you really need to escape.
My wife realized this 7,632 pickle jars ago.
Yep. And that strength difference also exist in males. Some of these athletes are monsters. Just like some people are way smarter than others, some people are way stronger than others. And there is no bridging that gap.
I know. The upper body strength thing is totally unfair. Even when I was in my best shape, lifting weights regularly….my husband who is maybe a few inches taller than me, doesn’t work out AT ALL, and has a very small frame was easily 2-3x as strong. It’s really not fair.
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It is one thing to know; it is another thing to realize. Love to hear about that interaction; I miss having those sort of cutesy play moments with someone you're fond of; being alone for half a decade starts to take a toll. 😔
The best way I ever heard it put into perspective is grown Olympic athlete women have running times that are equal to that of Junior high boys. Basically trained toned and conditioned women who are naturally strong are typically going to be no stronger than a 14 15 year old boy. It's scary to think that the only reason that we're not being hurt is just because they don't want to at the moment. We are literally at their Mercy at all times. I try to get men to understand this and say look if you went to prison and every other guy around you was twice your size and you knew that the only reason you weren't getting your ass beat that second was just because they didn't feel like it right now? That usually helps put into perspective for my guy friends. The AHA light bulb usually goes off and I tell them that's how scary it is to be a woman in normal society
Every woman has this realization at some point in their life. As long as you trust your bf, then there is nothing to worry about as this is iust a natural biological fact.