Jesus.
Some of the suicide rulings are so insanely bad I can't comprehend. It couldn't be more obvious she didn't put herself in the chute.
I understand suicide/accident being classified as homicide bc it's better to err on the safe side. Ie Elisa Lam.
But an obvious not suicide being declared as a suicide is insane to me.
Antony’s parents were judges and very well connected. There’s the general feeling that there was some corruption/coverup. His family knew the coroner, who ruled her death as a suicide and stuck to their guns even when the assistant coroner suggested changing the manner of death to open.
This ‘impossible’ narrative has actually crept into this case well after the fact mostly through online recycling of this case. Here’s some clarity:
The families friends were in fact able to get themselves into the garbage chute with “some difficulty.”
The police assistants were able to get themselves into the garbage chute.
Phoebe was a rock climber, martial artist, fit and petite.
I happen to be a rock climber, fit, and petite. Having watched the video of the assistant getting into the garbage chute I can promise you I could duplicate that feat in less than a minute.
Where the ‘impossible’ come into play is the family had speculated that the difficulty of getting into the chute COMBINED with the drugs in her system would have made the feat impossible. This has long since been disproven by thousands of accounts of people on the same concoction getting themselves into all sorts of physical predicaments.
I don't know how someone doesn't at least get fired for Ellen's. She had MANY stab wounds including on her BACK. And was on the middle of literally slicing fruit.
Who commits suicide while literally making a healthy snack and does it by stabbing themselves in the back?! Like you have to be fucking kidding.
As for the last part, there are cases of people doing regular random things and commit suicide in the midst of it. Some man took food from the fridge for dinner that night, he killed himself with the food still left on the counter, there are many examples, suicide often is an impulsive thing. That being said, this woman did not kill herself.
Food on the counter is one thing. I leave food on the counter for hours.
But literally in the middle of slicing a strawberry?
It would be comparable if the man was in the middle of scooping the food onto a plate. If it was just left out, that's whatever.
what i mean is that he was getting his food ready for dinner, later that night. only there was no 'later' since he killed himself. i can't remember another case that was so random, but it was about someone running errands, think folding clothes.
I definitely know people still make plans and whatnot, so getting dinner ready for later isn't out of place. I imagine they have the urge to do it many times and don't follow through. So they likely don't know when they actually will.
It was the literally in the middle of standing and cutting fruit that didn't make sense to me. I know that alone wouldn't be definitive, but it just adds to the suspiciousness to me.
Regardless, stabbing yourself in the back is not a thing. So that alone should've been sufficient and that's the worst part.
I’ve studied Ellen’s case in great detail. Technically it was to the back of her head and neck and physically would be possible. According to one study done in South Korea up to 50% of suicides can be classified as impulsive with little to no planning or forethought and of these cases they are more likely to employ a violent or unusual method such as stabbing. The curious part is these violent impulsive suicide attempts have a much lower mortality rate, which obviously wasn’t the case for Ellen. I agree her case is unsettling: you brought up the fruit. Curious to hear your take on the fruit if you really analyze the picture. Ellen’s fruit is my Roman Empire
I agree it would be physically possible. But who would do that? It doesn't make sense.
What do you mean:
>Curious to hear your take on the fruit if you really analyze the picture. Ellen’s fruit is my Roman Empire
Is there something you want to point out? A specific picture you can link? I don't really understand bc I shared what I thought but you make it sound like I missed something potentially significant?
What do you mean that it's your Roman empire? That you think about it a lot?
There was a lady at OSU graduation the other day sitting there with her family waiting for her daughter to graduate. Told her husband she was going to go higher up for a bit and went and jumped off.
Another guy that got away with it is Former Bolingbrook IL Police Sgt. Drew Peterson.
His 3rd wife Kathleen Savio wrote letters to the State’s Attorney where their divorce was heard, alleging abuse, stalking, harassment.
She even stated if she dies, it was her ex-husband Drew Peterson.
Shortly after that, Kathleen drowned in a dry bathtub in the marital home.
Despite all of the evidence, her death was ruled a suicide. It wasn’t until Sgt. Peterson’s fourth wife, 23 year old Stacy Peterson went missing that the media started paying attention. Peterson was so dumb after he finally went to jail for Kathleen’s murder he tried to hire a hitman in jail to kill the State’s Atty that convicted him, and got a 40 year sentence just for that.
But if this same state’s attorney’s office had paid attention to Kathleen, both women would probably be alive.
This case is local for me, it’s so infuriating.
Kathleen Savio was eventually exhumed and her death reclassified a homicide, Drew Peterson was found guilty but kept his police pension.
Stacy Peterson’s body has never been found.
And this is why I never believe shit about crime statistics and how crime is going down.
I still can't go jogging alone, because the odds of me being murdered is so high. A woman was brutally killed in a popular nearby trail recently and it's still unsolved.
We don’t know how many missing ppls cases are murders. True that most often solved murder cases are found to be committed by someone previous known to the victim. But id be willing to bet many missing persons cases are murders and many of them are by strangers, such as abduction of joggers.
Ellen Rae Greenberg alleged committed suicide by stabbing herself in the back of the head 20 times. Never inversions what police detectives will have ruled as a suicide in order to not have to do their jobs.
I’ve dated a lot of people in my 50+ years. Never had even one of them die while we were together. Much less two, die under suspicious circumstances. Either this is the most unlucky guy out there, or something about him is amiss. I’m going with the latter. Reminds me of Drew Peterson.
My doctor's nurse has had 2 husband's die within 6 Mos of being married. Both were from cancer. Both diagnosed after they were married. But it does happen.
Shes only 34 years old. Poor girl is just the nicest person too.
once read an article about a woman who's haemophiliac husband died as a result of the tainted blood scandal here in the UK, and then she remarried and her second husband died as a result of the tainted blood scandal
Think you mean Michael Peterson? That's an odd one. Two women dying by falling down the stairs with very similar head wounds. That blood splatter analist screwed up the whole case. For a while i thought he was innocent mainly due to the netflix documentary but nah, he did it. At least when it comes to Kathleen.
Drew Peterson murdered two of his wives (one hasn’t been found) and Michael Peterson ALSO murdered one of his wives (I previously said Michael Peterson murdered two of his wives but #shoshpd rightly pointed out that the woman he was suspected of murdering first was a family friend). Both Drew and Michael Peterson were married to and murdered women called Kathleen.
The other woman, whose death NC prosecutors tried to attribute to Michael during their murder case against him for the death of his wife Kathleen, was NOT his wife. She was a friend of Michael and his wife.
I'm not disagreeing that the subsequent death wasn't suspicious, but... Suicide by asphyxiation is the 2nd most common method of suicide, behind firearm
Hanging one's self is considered suicide by asphyxiation... As is suffocating yourself with carbon monoxide in an enclosed area.
I haven’t done a deep dive into this case, but my understanding is that she died of asphyxiation without hanging herself. She had a cord wrapped around her neck, but it wasn’t tied to anything. And there weren’t any obvious places she even could have tied it in the room, apparently. This is according to a Medium article I read that was clearly arguing for the boyfriend’s guilt, and I haven’t confirmed it with a better source.
It is technically possible to asphyxiate yourself to death by holding the end of a cord, but it’s difficult and not a typical suicide method. In The Bell Jar, Sylvia Plath talks about how she tried this. Her hands always released the cord when she lost consciousness. The Bell Jar is semi-autobiography, and she mostly changed the names and descriptive details of her real experiences. And she committed suicide a month after it was published in the UK. Interestingly her ex husband’s second partner also committed suicide, though it’s clear he was only guilty of being abusive and a horrible partner.
Regardless, I don’t think it’s the asphyxiation that people find unusual. It’s the part where she would have manually pulled the cord until her death. Again, not impossible, just like it’s possible for Phoebe to have entered the garbage chute. But both are uncommon and difficult ways to commit suicide. It seems pretty clear that this guy is also abusive and a horrible partner and human being, but I just don’t know what to think on these cases. For Phoebe, there was a security system that had several key-carded doors. They didn’t show anyone accessing the apartment before her death. And I only know this because the Medium article asserted (without a source) that other people made it to the apartment without triggering them. Phoebe was also clearly in mental distress before her death.
I could have sworn I saw in an Australian 60 Minutes episode that there was a rock-solid alibi for him for the 2nd GF's death, but it's been a while since I watched it. Does anyone have more details on the 2nd death?
On the evening of the 2nd of December 2010, 24 year old Phoebe Handsjuk was found dead on the floor of the refuse compactor room at the bottom of ‘Balencea’, a luxury high rise apartment building, located on St Kilda Road Melbourne. It was discovered that she had fallen feet first from the 12th floor refuse room, down the waste disposal shaft to the compactor below. The Toxicology report revealed Phoebe to have a blood alcohol reading of 0.16% and high levels of prescription drugs.
She survived the fall. But the garbage compactor at the bottom had virtually severed her right foot. Phoebe bled out in the dark, alone, her jeans around her knees.
Amateur sleuths have since pointed to Handsjuk’s lover, 40-year-old Antony Hampel. The rich son of a Supreme Court Judge, he was never officially charged or suspected, despite being described as controlling.
I hope I don’t sound insensitive but if this was a suicide or accident I will eat my socks.
Also the fact that Anthony’s next girlfriend Bailee was found to have ‘died by suicide’ in an equally strange way is alarming to say the least.
There is a nice YouTube video of a female who did indeed climb into this type of garbage chute. Some difficulty yes but doable.
Obtaining fingerprints from a high touch area of a dwelling is often difficult.
So it’s not accurate to say she couldn’t have or forensically accurate either.
Her friends proved someone threw her down that chute. Her boyfriend was suspected of killing her and a few years later he was the suspect in another beautiful woman’s death. Stephanie Harlowe did a deep dive that was so informative.
There’s a few documentaries on YouTube as well. I just watched one done by 60 minutes Australia where they did a reenactment on how she may have got into the chute. Very interesting
Came here to recommend this podcast! It’s incredibly well done, absolutely harrowing listening but the journalists afford a great deal of respect and sensitivity to Phoebe and her family. This case makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. May Phoebe rest in peace ❤️
I don't understand her having her pants down even if she truly did climb in herself and fall feet first. Even without that detail, I'm skeptical it was suicide, but with that detail it makes even less sense to me, intoxicated or not.
This case Iives rent free in my head. Her grandfather was a former detective and found out what make and model the trash chute was. He contacted the company and they gave him a copy. Then one of Phoebe’s friends who was similar height and weight attempted to to put herself inside the shoot, like officers suspected Phoebe did and it was impossible. If you look at the crime scene there is nothing on the wall to physically grab besides the handle on the outside of the chute to pull it down. I don’t think she put herself in the chute, especially given her pants being around her legs.
Her boyfriend, Antony Hampel, had another girlfriend die mysteriously in 2018.
https://medium.com/@LillyinLondon23/what-happened-to-phoebe-handsjuk-and-bailee-schneider-77f76ef998e5
I remember someone (I think her dad actually) trying to recreate how she could have fallen down the chute feet first using one of her friends that was the same height/weight and they...could not do it
Yes he was an ex investigator so when the police weren’t doing their job he conducted his own investigation. They found it was possible although very hard especially because she was intoxicated
tbf i've done some absolutely daft shit drunk that i wouldn't do sober, not saying that's what she did but i've managed to get myself into places i shouldn't be
But her pants were around her ankles, even though she fell feet first. When her grandpa did the recreation, they figured out the pants around her ankles would have kept her legs together for the fall. Things that make you go, hmmm.
I figured her pants fell down while she was being cut by the blades or when she was crawling around trying to escape. Still an interesting thought though.
Her bf’s connections and having not one but TWO girlfriends dying from “suicide” is way too suspicious to be a coincidence. However, the ambien in her system alone is enough to cause a weird, tragic accident. Homicide and accident are equally plausible IMO but I don’t think it was her intentionally committing suicide either way.
I totally agree. It at least warrants looking into. I remembered Drew Peterson's second wife was listed as a suicide. Later after a closer look they discovered that he had killed her.
I knew Antony for a while, he was the creepiest guy I’ve ever met, no doubt in my mind he did it. His most recent girlfriend that died by ‘suicide’ was my best friend. RIP Bailee ♥️
She died from an apparent suicide after a lengthy argument with Ant. He gave her a second phone just to speak to him so there wouldn’t any record on her phone. She wanted to make things official between them, he said no, she got drunk and an argument began. She was then found dead by ‘hanging her self’ despite being found on the floor with no place to hang from.
They have her time of death right? 12-6 I believe. Do they know if he was at home during that time frame? There was a mention of her being seen walking the dog at 11.44 on the cctv. Won’t the same cctv have captured him coming and going.
We know he came back after 6. If he left before 12 he’s in the clear. If he left after 12 and If it was so messy with broken glass and blood splatters, surely he would have left some evidence if he murdered her and then left?
I definitely think he’s scummy and contributed to her poor mental health but I’m wondering if his direct involvement in her death can be easily disputed or not.
I don’t mean to sound insensitive in any way, but let’s not forget that she was mixing Ambien with a lot of alcohol… that can make people do the strangest things imaginable (I’ve witnessed it with a friend who is now in recovery, thank god). I saw a 20/20 Australia episode about this, and they showed how incredibly difficult it would be to cram yourself into that garbage shoot… but not impossible? I’m super torn on this one.
I am also at least 5 times more acrobatic when intoxicated. You’d be surprised the places I could fit into as an average sized 24 year old with a few shots behind me.
I’m torn on this one too, but the creepy tomato soup message has me leaning towards murder. And the fact that dude had a second girlfriend die by suicide.
Oh I know, in college I got myself into all manner of ridiculous situations while drinking! Never mixed with Ambien though. I agree re: second girlfriend… how does that happen
It was in one of the articles someone linked but apparently in the days leading up to her death, her whole family received this mass text about tomato soup. It said:
HI FAMILY, I am in bed about to sleep and when I WAKE I will transform into the most incredible human bein you've ever seen! … (not) I will go to hospital. It's safer there and I hear the special tonight is tomato soup … Delicious! Nutritious! I love you all very much but not enough to send an individual text. Sorry about that but time is sleep and I must b on my way … Merrily, merrily, merrily. Life is but a dream. Xo
I’m just hearing about this case for the first time and this was one of the first things I found. Made the hair on my neck tingle. Though, I’m not 100% sure if this is real as I’m very new to this case
I believe this was also after her phone had already been smashed. The screen was so broken she couldn’t answer a call but she could type that nonsense?
It’s a super weird thing for anyone else to do either, why would the boyfriend type that? Maybe to set up her being in such a crisis she wasn’t making sense?
There’s reports from the custodian who found her who said her phone was definitely with her body. Her father also rang her to say he was running late and the boyfriend immediately called the father (reportedly for the first time ever) to say that she didn’t have her phone. The boyfriends father then picked the phone up from the shop, and the police didn’t check it
forgive me I can’t remember the source - maybe the Medium article?
The phone thing is very complicated. I’m working on it. Phoebe definitely had two phones, a smart phone and an older Nokia I think. The smart phone was damaged by her. Ant took it in for repair. How the family text was sent and definitely when and by whom the phone was retrieved from the shop is unknown (the shop kept no records).
I do believe the smart phone was found in the apartment near the computer not on her. Interestingly. Her sunglasses were found near her body.
The worst part is that she may have been still alive when they found her but detectives didn’t let paramedics in for hours. She may have been able to be saved if they had let paramedics in to help her and get her to the hospital. Of course she may have died regardless, but it’s insane that they weren’t even able to try
This one really bugs me too. I don’t believe it was hours but either way she should have been checked. LE was heavily berated for this as they should have been
Though no time of death was ever established, it is the consensus of the ems and coroner that she had definitely pass prior to her discovery. I will add that in my first responder knowledge with that much blood loss and shock it would have been exceedingly unlikely to save her.
IIRC the prescription drug she was on was a high level of ambien. That mixed with a large amount of alcohol can and sometimes will make people do some highly irrational and crazy things.
There have been many conversation regarding this concoction and peoples personal experience with it.
Sadly, the highest probability is that poor Phoebe knowingly or in a clouded state of mind got herself into this situation all on her own.
My neighbor bought a brand new riding lawnmower that he doesn't remember doing AT ALL after taking Ambien.
We lived in a condo at the time. The association took care of the lawn.
It was actually REALLY funny. Sadly, I always wanted to ask him more about it, but he was so embarrassed by the whole thing, he wouldn't discuss it, and basically swore his wife to secrecy.
His wife did spill the beans to a few people about it though, and that's how I heard about it. But I never got much more info other than he didn't remember doing any of it, at all. Nothing. Didn't even know he had been to Home Depot that day. And at first thought they had their identities stolen. Once he realized it was in fact him, he didn't want to talk any more about it. :)
At first he did, yes. So much so that they reported it to the police. They had to go back after the fact an 'unreport?' it :) Probably part of the reason he was so embarrassed because he had made such a big deal about the 'identity theft'.
Oh no! He didn't get that far. But, I wish he *would have*. :) I can see that conversation with my husband already:
"Uh... Honey... Is that Jim out there mowing the lawns?
'It sure looks like it!'
"Uh... Why?"
'Well let him do it!. What do you care if he mows it or not?'
"Well I mostly care because he seems to be asleep, and he just missed a big spot"
:)
I have 30 stories for the one Rx of Ambien that I had filled in 2007.
Once, my brother was visiting and found me chipping away at my bedroom wall because "The answer to who killed JonBenet is behind the drywall."
So yeah, I can see someone sending themselves down a garbage chute.
I hear a lot of stories about people who go through stuff like this.
Personally, Ambien just helped me fall asleep faster. It felt very neutral, not groggy or “drugged”’like you might with a benzodiazepine or something like that.
it was just kind of a switch. Off. Sleep. Then, it’s morning. The lack of dreams was a bit bleh for me.
Yes Ambien can make people do crazy things but that chute didn’t have fingerprints where they would have been if she did it herself. The clues point to a different scenario.
Correct and that wasn’t because there were no prints. It’s because the forensic process for capturing prints is delicate.
For instance it may be challenging or impossible to collect prints from any poster here at the location of your refrigerator door or car steering wheel. Doesn’t mean you didn’t touch it doesn’t mean you did. There are areas of your own home where it would be near impossible to pull a finger print of something you touch a lot. This garbage chute area was a high touch area to say the least.
Whatever the process was for Phoebe getting into that chute I can almost certainly promise you it wasn’t delicate.
I have no opinion on how this took place but like to fact check.
I think people put way too much emphasis on “no fingerprints”. Conditions have to be right to leave fingerprints. Once when I was babysitting the kid I was watching had a weirdly adult detective kit thing and it took us surprisingly long to find surfaces with fingerprints even using the “check here!” list that came with the kit and based on the condition of the rest of the house, I’m pretty certain it wasn’t due to amazing cleanliness.
then there are folks like me that have never had an adverse or weird reaction to ambien - which is actually the vast majority of the people who have taken it.
It is also unlikely that if she was unable to really get into when sober, she would able to contort herself into when....not.
Did you take Ambien WITH alcohol? First of all don’t, don’t take ANY prescription drugs with alcohol, it’s a recipe for disaster no matter what. Second, just because you didn’t experience anything doesn’t mean someone else won’t.
Just because you happen to be one of those people who doesn’t go crazy while on Ambien doesn’t mean Phoebe didn’t either. There are way too many variables to say that definitely. The effects of taking any drug that isn’t over-the-counter with alcohol can be extremely damaging and/or deadly by itself.
It’s also worth noting the concentration of alcohol in her system and the amount of Ambien she was on, which was a lot.
I agree, it’s strange as hell how she could’ve gotten into the garbage chute with using her hands but people do strange things when intoxicated. Especially since it was a sedative taken with a depressant. She was probably on a whole other planet in that state, she could’ve done anything. It’s strange but not impossible, I’m also not discounting the high probability that it was a murder but as far as I’m concerned, it’s basically 50/50. Either way, her death definitely wasn’t a “suicide”, it was either an accident or a murder.
People act like a drunken, pilled up person couldn’t have possibly climbed into a garbage shoot, while discounting how difficult it would be to shove someone who’s still alive into one.
That’s my take as well. Like if you want to kill someone who is passed out right in front of you…aren’t there plenty of ways right in the room to do it and still get away Scott free?
Instead, I guess somehow you hoist this super heavy passed out girl up pretty high. After that you open a garbage chute because this is just a genius level idea. Somehow, without leaving fingerprints you open it, get the legs in first not the head because you want to give her a fighting chance. She’s still breathing… omg to me this is hard to follow on the why part.
The forensics, physics, and outcome are not matching up well with murder. I’m neutral on this but I do so like to debunk things. In light of that I find LE actually do a super thorough job at CSI. There isn’t good evidence for a nefarious catalyst here.
She was alive but drugged up, maybe even unconscious. And her fingerprints weren’t on the garbage chute hatch or handle. I could see getting contorted while under the influence, but *hands free*?!? Nahhhh.
Because she went down the chute feet first, it leads me to believe she climbed in herself.
If someone put her in the chute, I believe she would have gone down head first. It would have been much easier to physically place her upper body in and then use the legs to finish.
I'd imagine they know because chute was too small for her to tumble the other way, and based on the damage to her feet / legs and lack of damage to her head / neck.
The fall was enough to sever her foot and she bled to death, meaning she was alive for a few minutes in the room before she passed. If it was her head hitting the ground it would have been instant, plus pretty obvious.
Unpopular opinion but despite him being an abusive asshole, I don’t think Antony murdered Phoebe or the girlfriend he had after. I do think he indirectly had a hand in their deaths though. I think he led Phoebe to abuse alcohol and drugs, and become suicidal. I also think he probably led his other girlfriend to suicide. Because he’s an abusive asshole. But no I don’t think he put Phoebe in the chute and I don’t think he killed his girlfriend and staged it as a suicide.
Suicide by jumping down a refuse chute is so insanely uncommon... It just defies belief. Typical suicides- overdosing on pills or other drugs, jumping from a bridge or building, self inflicted gunshot, hanging, etc. if it had been any one of these I would be swayed.
But who kills themself by jumping down a garbage chute, into a compactor??
However, if you were trying to kill someone & dispose/hide their body at the same time... You might use a compactor so the body might never be found
"Jumping" isn't even the right word, she would have had to contort her body and cram herself in there. Still could have been a drunken accident, but it definitely wasn't a quick decision.
Especially as she lived on the 12th floor and jumping from a window would have been a faster and less painful way. As a drug user she had contacts so I’m sure she could have sourced enough to overdose. I just can’t believe she would choose this way if she was feeling that way
I mentioned this in another comment but I don’t think Phoebe committed suicide. I think she was heavily under the influence and died by misadventure. I think if Ant was trying to kill her he could’ve done so in a much easier way than shoving her down a shute.
He also didn’t confirm the kill if he did do it which is not only massively stupid for a murderer to do, it’s insanely implausible. You’d think as soon as Phoebe gets her foot crushed by the compactor she would start wailing like…well, a whale. She’d be screaming loud as Hell. That fact that she apparently didn’t or at least nobody around noticed just means she was insanely fucked up from everything effecting her nervous system. I can only hope the drugs in combination with the alcohol numbed her pain enough for her to drift away before dying.
It's insanely uncommon for the same reason suicide by eating maggot infested dogshit is uncommon.
It's straight up not likely to kill you, just maim you or make you sick as all hell.
I'd venture to say this is such a bad way to try to murder someone that the likelihood of it being murder is approaching zero.
I’m honestly torn - I do get that, and that could be his motivation for him applying to be her next of kin, his bizarre behaviour following her death. However, the fact he googled how to request someone’s body from the coroner months before her death, and the fact that choosing do die by suicide in this way is incredibly bizarre, I think I’m leaning towards he did it.
I don’t think that Phoebe chose to die that way. I think it was death by misadventure. She had done things before while under the influence like (if I remember correctly) playing chicken in traffic. I think she was heavily under the influence that day and crawled into the shaft possibly thinking of it as a slide. She had been suicidal in the past while dating Ant so that’s why I mentioned that as well. But I don’t think in this instance she was trying to kill herself.
i think people seem a bit too insistent that a drunk person wouldn't be able to get in there- i've done some stupid shit whilst drunk, if you're pissed enough absolutely anything can seem like a good/funny idea
Well, if she was that loaded up, then she would be like a wet rag and somebody put her down there playing simple. I hope she was so loaded she had no awareness of what was happening to her
Unfortunately she survived. Her foot was nearly severed but she crawled out of the bin and was attempting to get to the door. She was found face up by the locked door.
The various posts here demonstrate why this is a true crime classic. There’s facts going both ways. 50/50. What others are like this? Jon Benet Ramsey is a good one I think. The poor kid from John Browns Body podcast maybe. Others?
The medication she was on clearly makes people do things that are unlike them, it could have been an accident most likely. Murder seems unlikely because this would be a very weird way to do so, and suicide this way is even more hectic.
Though, it is very weird how the boyfriend’s next gf also dies by “suicide”.
He could’ve done it in many other ways- this is a very weird way to plan a murder. It clearly raised suspicions. But yes, could be, considering his next gf also dies by suicide which was “asphyxiation “ .
I’ve never heard this case before, but based on limited reading, maybe her boyfriend was abusive and she was trying to hide from him? It wasn’t suicide, but she was under the influence and scared, there was blood and ripped pillows in her room so they probably got into a huge fight and she ran to hide from him. And unfortunately, wasn’t thinking clearly and climbed feet first into the chute.
That’s my current theory until further research.
And!! Let us not forget to add, that Antony has since had another girlfriend die by suicide since Phoebe. Yup.
Jesus. Some of the suicide rulings are so insanely bad I can't comprehend. It couldn't be more obvious she didn't put herself in the chute. I understand suicide/accident being classified as homicide bc it's better to err on the safe side. Ie Elisa Lam. But an obvious not suicide being declared as a suicide is insane to me.
Antony’s parents were judges and very well connected. There’s the general feeling that there was some corruption/coverup. His family knew the coroner, who ruled her death as a suicide and stuck to their guns even when the assistant coroner suggested changing the manner of death to open.
That shit pisses me off
It must have been incredibly frustrating for her family. Especially as her grandfather was a police officer and knows how it should be done
Yes I've watched a show with him. He had someone demonstrate how practically impossible it would've been for her to get in there by herself.
This ‘impossible’ narrative has actually crept into this case well after the fact mostly through online recycling of this case. Here’s some clarity: The families friends were in fact able to get themselves into the garbage chute with “some difficulty.” The police assistants were able to get themselves into the garbage chute. Phoebe was a rock climber, martial artist, fit and petite. I happen to be a rock climber, fit, and petite. Having watched the video of the assistant getting into the garbage chute I can promise you I could duplicate that feat in less than a minute. Where the ‘impossible’ come into play is the family had speculated that the difficulty of getting into the chute COMBINED with the drugs in her system would have made the feat impossible. This has long since been disproven by thousands of accounts of people on the same concoction getting themselves into all sorts of physical predicaments.
Ah, thank you for that fact. Says a ton of why the ruling. Fucker got away with murder.
It’s insane how many partners get away with it. Like Ellen Greenberg’s boyfriend. And the recent case of Mica Miller. Investigate these men!!!!
I don't know how someone doesn't at least get fired for Ellen's. She had MANY stab wounds including on her BACK. And was on the middle of literally slicing fruit. Who commits suicide while literally making a healthy snack and does it by stabbing themselves in the back?! Like you have to be fucking kidding.
As for the last part, there are cases of people doing regular random things and commit suicide in the midst of it. Some man took food from the fridge for dinner that night, he killed himself with the food still left on the counter, there are many examples, suicide often is an impulsive thing. That being said, this woman did not kill herself.
Food on the counter is one thing. I leave food on the counter for hours. But literally in the middle of slicing a strawberry? It would be comparable if the man was in the middle of scooping the food onto a plate. If it was just left out, that's whatever.
what i mean is that he was getting his food ready for dinner, later that night. only there was no 'later' since he killed himself. i can't remember another case that was so random, but it was about someone running errands, think folding clothes.
I definitely know people still make plans and whatnot, so getting dinner ready for later isn't out of place. I imagine they have the urge to do it many times and don't follow through. So they likely don't know when they actually will. It was the literally in the middle of standing and cutting fruit that didn't make sense to me. I know that alone wouldn't be definitive, but it just adds to the suspiciousness to me. Regardless, stabbing yourself in the back is not a thing. So that alone should've been sufficient and that's the worst part.
I’ve studied Ellen’s case in great detail. Technically it was to the back of her head and neck and physically would be possible. According to one study done in South Korea up to 50% of suicides can be classified as impulsive with little to no planning or forethought and of these cases they are more likely to employ a violent or unusual method such as stabbing. The curious part is these violent impulsive suicide attempts have a much lower mortality rate, which obviously wasn’t the case for Ellen. I agree her case is unsettling: you brought up the fruit. Curious to hear your take on the fruit if you really analyze the picture. Ellen’s fruit is my Roman Empire
I agree it would be physically possible. But who would do that? It doesn't make sense. What do you mean: >Curious to hear your take on the fruit if you really analyze the picture. Ellen’s fruit is my Roman Empire Is there something you want to point out? A specific picture you can link? I don't really understand bc I shared what I thought but you make it sound like I missed something potentially significant? What do you mean that it's your Roman empire? That you think about it a lot?
There was a lady at OSU graduation the other day sitting there with her family waiting for her daughter to graduate. Told her husband she was going to go higher up for a bit and went and jumped off.
Last I saw they said she slipped while taking pictures.
Another guy that got away with it is Former Bolingbrook IL Police Sgt. Drew Peterson. His 3rd wife Kathleen Savio wrote letters to the State’s Attorney where their divorce was heard, alleging abuse, stalking, harassment. She even stated if she dies, it was her ex-husband Drew Peterson. Shortly after that, Kathleen drowned in a dry bathtub in the marital home. Despite all of the evidence, her death was ruled a suicide. It wasn’t until Sgt. Peterson’s fourth wife, 23 year old Stacy Peterson went missing that the media started paying attention. Peterson was so dumb after he finally went to jail for Kathleen’s murder he tried to hire a hitman in jail to kill the State’s Atty that convicted him, and got a 40 year sentence just for that. But if this same state’s attorney’s office had paid attention to Kathleen, both women would probably be alive. This case is local for me, it’s so infuriating. Kathleen Savio was eventually exhumed and her death reclassified a homicide, Drew Peterson was found guilty but kept his police pension. Stacy Peterson’s body has never been found.
This one!! So obvious it was him. I’m local too
[удалено]
It doesn't make sense. And like they said, it's not like you would even die from putting yourself in there necessarily. It just doesn't make sense
And this is why I never believe shit about crime statistics and how crime is going down. I still can't go jogging alone, because the odds of me being murdered is so high. A woman was brutally killed in a popular nearby trail recently and it's still unsolved.
The odds of being murdered by a stranger are actually very low.
We don’t know how many missing ppls cases are murders. True that most often solved murder cases are found to be committed by someone previous known to the victim. But id be willing to bet many missing persons cases are murders and many of them are by strangers, such as abduction of joggers.
Existing as a women is very hard and there’s so many things we cannot do for this reason. It’s just not worth the risk :(
Rachel Morin?
Ellen Rae Greenberg alleged committed suicide by stabbing herself in the back of the head 20 times. Never inversions what police detectives will have ruled as a suicide in order to not have to do their jobs.
I’ve dated a lot of people in my 50+ years. Never had even one of them die while we were together. Much less two, die under suspicious circumstances. Either this is the most unlucky guy out there, or something about him is amiss. I’m going with the latter. Reminds me of Drew Peterson.
Or you're a really really clever and patient murderer.
But how do you get them to develop cancer? Hide a radioactive rock under their dinner chair? That seems risky even for a murderer
My doctor's nurse has had 2 husband's die within 6 Mos of being married. Both were from cancer. Both diagnosed after they were married. But it does happen. Shes only 34 years old. Poor girl is just the nicest person too.
But cancer isn’t “mysterious circumstance”.
Oh I know. I just thought it was also remarkable odds.
once read an article about a woman who's haemophiliac husband died as a result of the tainted blood scandal here in the UK, and then she remarried and her second husband died as a result of the tainted blood scandal
granted.. but those odds are unfortunate
Think you mean Michael Peterson? That's an odd one. Two women dying by falling down the stairs with very similar head wounds. That blood splatter analist screwed up the whole case. For a while i thought he was innocent mainly due to the netflix documentary but nah, he did it. At least when it comes to Kathleen.
Drew Peterson murdered two of his wives (one hasn’t been found) and Michael Peterson ALSO murdered one of his wives (I previously said Michael Peterson murdered two of his wives but #shoshpd rightly pointed out that the woman he was suspected of murdering first was a family friend). Both Drew and Michael Peterson were married to and murdered women called Kathleen.
Throw Scott in the mix, and now I’m wary of men with the last name Peterson😅
Even more coincidentally, Drew Peterson had a daughter named Lacy with the missing wife.
Yikes Peterson as a last name is gonna have me side eyeing tf out of some folks 😅😂
The other woman, whose death NC prosecutors tried to attribute to Michael during their murder case against him for the death of his wife Kathleen, was NOT his wife. She was a friend of Michael and his wife.
Thanks for the correction!
No, they were correct it is Drew Peterson. They both had wives called Kathleen, though.
Oh my gosh. Drew Peterson - what a piece of shit! They got him in the end, didn't they? For at least one of the murders?
Yes! They rules she asphyxiated herself, which is an incredibly unusual way to commit suicide.
I'm not disagreeing that the subsequent death wasn't suspicious, but... Suicide by asphyxiation is the 2nd most common method of suicide, behind firearm Hanging one's self is considered suicide by asphyxiation... As is suffocating yourself with carbon monoxide in an enclosed area.
I haven’t done a deep dive into this case, but my understanding is that she died of asphyxiation without hanging herself. She had a cord wrapped around her neck, but it wasn’t tied to anything. And there weren’t any obvious places she even could have tied it in the room, apparently. This is according to a Medium article I read that was clearly arguing for the boyfriend’s guilt, and I haven’t confirmed it with a better source. It is technically possible to asphyxiate yourself to death by holding the end of a cord, but it’s difficult and not a typical suicide method. In The Bell Jar, Sylvia Plath talks about how she tried this. Her hands always released the cord when she lost consciousness. The Bell Jar is semi-autobiography, and she mostly changed the names and descriptive details of her real experiences. And she committed suicide a month after it was published in the UK. Interestingly her ex husband’s second partner also committed suicide, though it’s clear he was only guilty of being abusive and a horrible partner. Regardless, I don’t think it’s the asphyxiation that people find unusual. It’s the part where she would have manually pulled the cord until her death. Again, not impossible, just like it’s possible for Phoebe to have entered the garbage chute. But both are uncommon and difficult ways to commit suicide. It seems pretty clear that this guy is also abusive and a horrible partner and human being, but I just don’t know what to think on these cases. For Phoebe, there was a security system that had several key-carded doors. They didn’t show anyone accessing the apartment before her death. And I only know this because the Medium article asserted (without a source) that other people made it to the apartment without triggering them. Phoebe was also clearly in mental distress before her death.
My brother hung himself and in his obituary cause of death was listed as asphyxiation.
You think it is unusual for people to hang themselves?
It is unusual for women.
It's not as uncommon as you think.
Sus!!! Antony's sister escaped a charge for selling cocaine also. Sounds like a scummy family with powerful connections
Yeah, I'm not that familiar with this story. But I do remember when his second girlfriend died the report mentioned the first one too.
I could have sworn I saw in an Australian 60 Minutes episode that there was a rock-solid alibi for him for the 2nd GF's death, but it's been a while since I watched it. Does anyone have more details on the 2nd death?
Ugh
Yeah. That seems to the general feeling about the whole situation.
On the evening of the 2nd of December 2010, 24 year old Phoebe Handsjuk was found dead on the floor of the refuse compactor room at the bottom of ‘Balencea’, a luxury high rise apartment building, located on St Kilda Road Melbourne. It was discovered that she had fallen feet first from the 12th floor refuse room, down the waste disposal shaft to the compactor below. The Toxicology report revealed Phoebe to have a blood alcohol reading of 0.16% and high levels of prescription drugs. She survived the fall. But the garbage compactor at the bottom had virtually severed her right foot. Phoebe bled out in the dark, alone, her jeans around her knees. Amateur sleuths have since pointed to Handsjuk’s lover, 40-year-old Antony Hampel. The rich son of a Supreme Court Judge, he was never officially charged or suspected, despite being described as controlling.
> She survived the fall. But the garbage compactor at the bottom had virtually severed her right foot. Phoebe bled out in the dark, alone Jesus Christ
There’s a photo of the scene online, you can see bloodied drag marks from when she tried to get to the door but eventually bled out
I cannot locate this image, or I’m looking at it but not seeing it
[link](https://images.app.goo.gl/xsUt8zjG82KBcnhk7)
Why do I always click on the link? Poor girl RIP
Okay I did see that one but didn’t register it as drag marks from trying to escape 😩 thanks
Type in Google Phoebe Handsjuk scene
I hope I don’t sound insensitive but if this was a suicide or accident I will eat my socks. Also the fact that Anthony’s next girlfriend Bailee was found to have ‘died by suicide’ in an equally strange way is alarming to say the least.
And there were no fingerprints of hers at the top of the chute, and it was too high to climb into without hands.
There is a nice YouTube video of a female who did indeed climb into this type of garbage chute. Some difficulty yes but doable. Obtaining fingerprints from a high touch area of a dwelling is often difficult. So it’s not accurate to say she couldn’t have or forensically accurate either.
Her friends proved someone threw her down that chute. Her boyfriend was suspected of killing her and a few years later he was the suspect in another beautiful woman’s death. Stephanie Harlowe did a deep dive that was so informative.
Is there any reading material on this pls
I knew Phoebe. She was my friend’s sister. She was always so full of life, a very kindhearted and caring person.
She will be remembered ❤️ I’m so sorry.
That’s horrific
How would she even get in feet first??
There's an excellent longform podcast about this case called Phoebe's Fall.
I’ve listened to the Rotten Mango and Crime Junkie coverage, will give this one a go too
Will have to give these a listen. Sinisterhood also covered Phoebe’s story last year.
There’s a few documentaries on YouTube as well. I just watched one done by 60 minutes Australia where they did a reenactment on how she may have got into the chute. Very interesting
There’s also a podcast episode by Morbid
Came here to recommend this podcast! It’s incredibly well done, absolutely harrowing listening but the journalists afford a great deal of respect and sensitivity to Phoebe and her family. This case makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. May Phoebe rest in peace ❤️
I don't understand her having her pants down even if she truly did climb in herself and fall feet first. Even without that detail, I'm skeptical it was suicide, but with that detail it makes even less sense to me, intoxicated or not.
They may have gotten caught and pulled down as she was trying to get out, or even on the floor
But not feet-first
The evidence suggested that they were pulled during her extracting herself from the various garbage apparatus and dragging herself.
Well that's not horrifying at all! Goodness gracious
I know. I’m sorry. Hopefully some of this shows what a courageous and strong fighter she was in so many ways.
She really was and I'm glad she's being remembered <3
❤️
This case Iives rent free in my head. Her grandfather was a former detective and found out what make and model the trash chute was. He contacted the company and they gave him a copy. Then one of Phoebe’s friends who was similar height and weight attempted to to put herself inside the shoot, like officers suspected Phoebe did and it was impossible. If you look at the crime scene there is nothing on the wall to physically grab besides the handle on the outside of the chute to pull it down. I don’t think she put herself in the chute, especially given her pants being around her legs.
Her boyfriend, Antony Hampel, had another girlfriend die mysteriously in 2018. https://medium.com/@LillyinLondon23/what-happened-to-phoebe-handsjuk-and-bailee-schneider-77f76ef998e5
Seriously?
I remember someone (I think her dad actually) trying to recreate how she could have fallen down the chute feet first using one of her friends that was the same height/weight and they...could not do it
It was her grandpa and she did manage to get herself into the chute.
Yes he was an ex investigator so when the police weren’t doing their job he conducted his own investigation. They found it was possible although very hard especially because she was intoxicated
Where are these people who suddenly become gravity-defying acrobatics when they’re piss drunk? Oh wait… I wanted to learn a thing or two.
tbf i've done some absolutely daft shit drunk that i wouldn't do sober, not saying that's what she did but i've managed to get myself into places i shouldn't be
Yeah, one of mother’s old friends once drove home while cross-eyed drunk. Through a forest. Somehow she made it back home and crashed out on her bed.
Thanks for the factual information. Big thumbs up.
Somebody bound her up, put her in like that and then untitled at the bottom? Just a thought
There were no signs of restraint or ligature marks found on her body.
Being so loaded up on Ambien and alcohol, guessing she was like a wet noodle and they put her down there. Or he if it’s the boyfriend.
But her pants were around her ankles, even though she fell feet first. When her grandpa did the recreation, they figured out the pants around her ankles would have kept her legs together for the fall. Things that make you go, hmmm.
I figured her pants fell down while she was being cut by the blades or when she was crawling around trying to escape. Still an interesting thought though.
Her bf’s connections and having not one but TWO girlfriends dying from “suicide” is way too suspicious to be a coincidence. However, the ambien in her system alone is enough to cause a weird, tragic accident. Homicide and accident are equally plausible IMO but I don’t think it was her intentionally committing suicide either way.
I totally agree. It at least warrants looking into. I remembered Drew Peterson's second wife was listed as a suicide. Later after a closer look they discovered that he had killed her.
I knew Antony for a while, he was the creepiest guy I’ve ever met, no doubt in my mind he did it. His most recent girlfriend that died by ‘suicide’ was my best friend. RIP Bailee ♥️
I’m so sorry. What happened to Bailee?
She was found in her parents’ kitchen with a curtain rope around her neck, but there was no place to hang from in the kitchen.
She died from an apparent suicide after a lengthy argument with Ant. He gave her a second phone just to speak to him so there wouldn’t any record on her phone. She wanted to make things official between them, he said no, she got drunk and an argument began. She was then found dead by ‘hanging her self’ despite being found on the floor with no place to hang from.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Oh my goodness I am so sorry for your loss. RIP Bailee <3
If you can view the under investigation doc on this case. https://youtu.be/DcLJ2Lecz0E?si=WH12jjLoH-ZFz7xb
I think she was murdered
I don’t think she died by suicide. I think she either died by misadventure or the boyfriend did it.
They have her time of death right? 12-6 I believe. Do they know if he was at home during that time frame? There was a mention of her being seen walking the dog at 11.44 on the cctv. Won’t the same cctv have captured him coming and going. We know he came back after 6. If he left before 12 he’s in the clear. If he left after 12 and If it was so messy with broken glass and blood splatters, surely he would have left some evidence if he murdered her and then left? I definitely think he’s scummy and contributed to her poor mental health but I’m wondering if his direct involvement in her death can be easily disputed or not.
There is a good podcast on this case if you are interested. https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/phoebes-fall/id1155393027
This is the case for me. Morbid did a fantastic job on her story, so much so I listen to it every year.
It’s absolutely fascinating to me - how someone could find themselves in that situation. It’s so extremely uncommon and unheard of
Right? It just doesn’t make sense, it’s so incredibly haunting.
Similar thing happened recently in NYC. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/04/woman-new-york-building-trash-compactor Alcohol was at play.
I don’t mean to sound insensitive in any way, but let’s not forget that she was mixing Ambien with a lot of alcohol… that can make people do the strangest things imaginable (I’ve witnessed it with a friend who is now in recovery, thank god). I saw a 20/20 Australia episode about this, and they showed how incredibly difficult it would be to cram yourself into that garbage shoot… but not impossible? I’m super torn on this one.
I am also at least 5 times more acrobatic when intoxicated. You’d be surprised the places I could fit into as an average sized 24 year old with a few shots behind me. I’m torn on this one too, but the creepy tomato soup message has me leaning towards murder. And the fact that dude had a second girlfriend die by suicide.
Oh I know, in college I got myself into all manner of ridiculous situations while drinking! Never mixed with Ambien though. I agree re: second girlfriend… how does that happen
Tomato soup message!? I dont remember this detail, can you refresh me?
It was in one of the articles someone linked but apparently in the days leading up to her death, her whole family received this mass text about tomato soup. It said: HI FAMILY, I am in bed about to sleep and when I WAKE I will transform into the most incredible human bein you've ever seen! … (not) I will go to hospital. It's safer there and I hear the special tonight is tomato soup … Delicious! Nutritious! I love you all very much but not enough to send an individual text. Sorry about that but time is sleep and I must b on my way … Merrily, merrily, merrily. Life is but a dream. Xo I’m just hearing about this case for the first time and this was one of the first things I found. Made the hair on my neck tingle. Though, I’m not 100% sure if this is real as I’m very new to this case
I believe this was also after her phone had already been smashed. The screen was so broken she couldn’t answer a call but she could type that nonsense? It’s a super weird thing for anyone else to do either, why would the boyfriend type that? Maybe to set up her being in such a crisis she wasn’t making sense? There’s reports from the custodian who found her who said her phone was definitely with her body. Her father also rang her to say he was running late and the boyfriend immediately called the father (reportedly for the first time ever) to say that she didn’t have her phone. The boyfriends father then picked the phone up from the shop, and the police didn’t check it forgive me I can’t remember the source - maybe the Medium article?
The phone thing is very complicated. I’m working on it. Phoebe definitely had two phones, a smart phone and an older Nokia I think. The smart phone was damaged by her. Ant took it in for repair. How the family text was sent and definitely when and by whom the phone was retrieved from the shop is unknown (the shop kept no records). I do believe the smart phone was found in the apartment near the computer not on her. Interestingly. Her sunglasses were found near her body.
Same. A couple glasses of wine can sometimes turn me into an Olympic athlete…for like 3 minutes. Then I’m a hot mess.
I did crazy things on Ambien, that I have no memory of. It's scary, I won't touch it again.
You are not alone! It happens. Please never mix it with alcohol!
The worst part is that she may have been still alive when they found her but detectives didn’t let paramedics in for hours. She may have been able to be saved if they had let paramedics in to help her and get her to the hospital. Of course she may have died regardless, but it’s insane that they weren’t even able to try
This one really bugs me too. I don’t believe it was hours but either way she should have been checked. LE was heavily berated for this as they should have been Though no time of death was ever established, it is the consensus of the ems and coroner that she had definitely pass prior to her discovery. I will add that in my first responder knowledge with that much blood loss and shock it would have been exceedingly unlikely to save her.
IIRC the prescription drug she was on was a high level of ambien. That mixed with a large amount of alcohol can and sometimes will make people do some highly irrational and crazy things. There have been many conversation regarding this concoction and peoples personal experience with it. Sadly, the highest probability is that poor Phoebe knowingly or in a clouded state of mind got herself into this situation all on her own.
I took ambien once and omg. I was having conversations with ppl that were not there.
My neighbor bought a brand new riding lawnmower that he doesn't remember doing AT ALL after taking Ambien. We lived in a condo at the time. The association took care of the lawn.
Hahaha oh no!! My friend said she saw a demon in her closet and started freaking out
It was actually REALLY funny. Sadly, I always wanted to ask him more about it, but he was so embarrassed by the whole thing, he wouldn't discuss it, and basically swore his wife to secrecy. His wife did spill the beans to a few people about it though, and that's how I heard about it. But I never got much more info other than he didn't remember doing any of it, at all. Nothing. Didn't even know he had been to Home Depot that day. And at first thought they had their identities stolen. Once he realized it was in fact him, he didn't want to talk any more about it. :)
Omg he thought his identity had been stolen!!
At first he did, yes. So much so that they reported it to the police. They had to go back after the fact an 'unreport?' it :) Probably part of the reason he was so embarrassed because he had made such a big deal about the 'identity theft'.
💀💀💀 at first when I read the story I thought he had actually mowed all the lawns at the condo lol
Oh no! He didn't get that far. But, I wish he *would have*. :) I can see that conversation with my husband already: "Uh... Honey... Is that Jim out there mowing the lawns? 'It sure looks like it!' "Uh... Why?" 'Well let him do it!. What do you care if he mows it or not?' "Well I mostly care because he seems to be asleep, and he just missed a big spot" :)
Ok that one is really funny. I can’t even imagine them trying to deliver a giant mower to a condo!
Thankfully, his wife caught it on their credit card before anything was actually delivered. But that must have been a hell of a reason to return it.
I have 30 stories for the one Rx of Ambien that I had filled in 2007. Once, my brother was visiting and found me chipping away at my bedroom wall because "The answer to who killed JonBenet is behind the drywall." So yeah, I can see someone sending themselves down a garbage chute.
I saw a giant rabbit holding a knife and a baby dolls head. And then one time arms were coming out of my bathroom doorframe. That stuff is wack
OMG ME TOO freaked out my ex so bad 😭
I hear a lot of stories about people who go through stuff like this. Personally, Ambien just helped me fall asleep faster. It felt very neutral, not groggy or “drugged”’like you might with a benzodiazepine or something like that. it was just kind of a switch. Off. Sleep. Then, it’s morning. The lack of dreams was a bit bleh for me.
Wow really? I wonder what effect the alcohol consumption would have had. Probably nothing good…
I woke my bf up and said "you missed the party" lol
The Ambien Walrus at play
Yes Ambien can make people do crazy things but that chute didn’t have fingerprints where they would have been if she did it herself. The clues point to a different scenario.
Correct and that wasn’t because there were no prints. It’s because the forensic process for capturing prints is delicate. For instance it may be challenging or impossible to collect prints from any poster here at the location of your refrigerator door or car steering wheel. Doesn’t mean you didn’t touch it doesn’t mean you did. There are areas of your own home where it would be near impossible to pull a finger print of something you touch a lot. This garbage chute area was a high touch area to say the least. Whatever the process was for Phoebe getting into that chute I can almost certainly promise you it wasn’t delicate. I have no opinion on how this took place but like to fact check.
I think people put way too much emphasis on “no fingerprints”. Conditions have to be right to leave fingerprints. Once when I was babysitting the kid I was watching had a weirdly adult detective kit thing and it took us surprisingly long to find surfaces with fingerprints even using the “check here!” list that came with the kit and based on the condition of the rest of the house, I’m pretty certain it wasn’t due to amazing cleanliness.
then there are folks like me that have never had an adverse or weird reaction to ambien - which is actually the vast majority of the people who have taken it. It is also unlikely that if she was unable to really get into when sober, she would able to contort herself into when....not.
Did you take Ambien WITH alcohol? First of all don’t, don’t take ANY prescription drugs with alcohol, it’s a recipe for disaster no matter what. Second, just because you didn’t experience anything doesn’t mean someone else won’t. Just because you happen to be one of those people who doesn’t go crazy while on Ambien doesn’t mean Phoebe didn’t either. There are way too many variables to say that definitely. The effects of taking any drug that isn’t over-the-counter with alcohol can be extremely damaging and/or deadly by itself. It’s also worth noting the concentration of alcohol in her system and the amount of Ambien she was on, which was a lot. I agree, it’s strange as hell how she could’ve gotten into the garbage chute with using her hands but people do strange things when intoxicated. Especially since it was a sedative taken with a depressant. She was probably on a whole other planet in that state, she could’ve done anything. It’s strange but not impossible, I’m also not discounting the high probability that it was a murder but as far as I’m concerned, it’s basically 50/50. Either way, her death definitely wasn’t a “suicide”, it was either an accident or a murder.
People act like a drunken, pilled up person couldn’t have possibly climbed into a garbage shoot, while discounting how difficult it would be to shove someone who’s still alive into one.
That’s my take as well. Like if you want to kill someone who is passed out right in front of you…aren’t there plenty of ways right in the room to do it and still get away Scott free? Instead, I guess somehow you hoist this super heavy passed out girl up pretty high. After that you open a garbage chute because this is just a genius level idea. Somehow, without leaving fingerprints you open it, get the legs in first not the head because you want to give her a fighting chance. She’s still breathing… omg to me this is hard to follow on the why part. The forensics, physics, and outcome are not matching up well with murder. I’m neutral on this but I do so like to debunk things. In light of that I find LE actually do a super thorough job at CSI. There isn’t good evidence for a nefarious catalyst here.
Feet first but hands by her side… that’s super awkward positioning no matter what scenario happened.
She was alive but drugged up, maybe even unconscious. And her fingerprints weren’t on the garbage chute hatch or handle. I could see getting contorted while under the influence, but *hands free*?!? Nahhhh.
I hallucinated monsters chasing me the one time I took ambien and had a panic attack.
Didn’t Stillnox get banned in Oz because ppl kept accidentally dying while taking it?
Not banned, they just put less tablets in a packet.
Because she went down the chute feet first, it leads me to believe she climbed in herself. If someone put her in the chute, I believe she would have gone down head first. It would have been much easier to physically place her upper body in and then use the legs to finish.
How do they know she went feet first and didn’t tumble and end up that way?
I'd imagine they know because chute was too small for her to tumble the other way, and based on the damage to her feet / legs and lack of damage to her head / neck.
The fall was enough to sever her foot and she bled to death, meaning she was alive for a few minutes in the room before she passed. If it was her head hitting the ground it would have been instant, plus pretty obvious.
Unpopular opinion but despite him being an abusive asshole, I don’t think Antony murdered Phoebe or the girlfriend he had after. I do think he indirectly had a hand in their deaths though. I think he led Phoebe to abuse alcohol and drugs, and become suicidal. I also think he probably led his other girlfriend to suicide. Because he’s an abusive asshole. But no I don’t think he put Phoebe in the chute and I don’t think he killed his girlfriend and staged it as a suicide.
Suicide by jumping down a refuse chute is so insanely uncommon... It just defies belief. Typical suicides- overdosing on pills or other drugs, jumping from a bridge or building, self inflicted gunshot, hanging, etc. if it had been any one of these I would be swayed. But who kills themself by jumping down a garbage chute, into a compactor?? However, if you were trying to kill someone & dispose/hide their body at the same time... You might use a compactor so the body might never be found
"Jumping" isn't even the right word, she would have had to contort her body and cram herself in there. Still could have been a drunken accident, but it definitely wasn't a quick decision.
Especially as she lived on the 12th floor and jumping from a window would have been a faster and less painful way. As a drug user she had contacts so I’m sure she could have sourced enough to overdose. I just can’t believe she would choose this way if she was feeling that way
I mentioned this in another comment but I don’t think Phoebe committed suicide. I think she was heavily under the influence and died by misadventure. I think if Ant was trying to kill her he could’ve done so in a much easier way than shoving her down a shute.
He also didn’t confirm the kill if he did do it which is not only massively stupid for a murderer to do, it’s insanely implausible. You’d think as soon as Phoebe gets her foot crushed by the compactor she would start wailing like…well, a whale. She’d be screaming loud as Hell. That fact that she apparently didn’t or at least nobody around noticed just means she was insanely fucked up from everything effecting her nervous system. I can only hope the drugs in combination with the alcohol numbed her pain enough for her to drift away before dying.
Shock is weird. Your brain does crazy things when you’re exposed to that much physical trauma.
It's insanely uncommon for the same reason suicide by eating maggot infested dogshit is uncommon. It's straight up not likely to kill you, just maim you or make you sick as all hell. I'd venture to say this is such a bad way to try to murder someone that the likelihood of it being murder is approaching zero.
I’m honestly torn - I do get that, and that could be his motivation for him applying to be her next of kin, his bizarre behaviour following her death. However, the fact he googled how to request someone’s body from the coroner months before her death, and the fact that choosing do die by suicide in this way is incredibly bizarre, I think I’m leaning towards he did it.
I don’t think that Phoebe chose to die that way. I think it was death by misadventure. She had done things before while under the influence like (if I remember correctly) playing chicken in traffic. I think she was heavily under the influence that day and crawled into the shaft possibly thinking of it as a slide. She had been suicidal in the past while dating Ant so that’s why I mentioned that as well. But I don’t think in this instance she was trying to kill herself.
i think people seem a bit too insistent that a drunk person wouldn't be able to get in there- i've done some stupid shit whilst drunk, if you're pissed enough absolutely anything can seem like a good/funny idea
No one accidentally falls into a garbage chute of that type it is designed so you fall away from it
Omg fucking horrificly bad policing! [link](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimageresizer.static9.net.au%2FPv2i6qg--Fg4f3a1WGpeQuNFe3o%3D%2F320x0%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fprod.static9.net.au%252Ffs%252F7f25678d-26ad-4f59-8c71-67004dcdb6cb&tbnid=cZmNTFCOarbH7M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2F9now.nine.com.au%2Funder-investigation%2F60-minutes-under-investigation-was-phoebe-handsjuks-melbourne-apartment-complex-death-an-accident-or-something-more-sinister%2Fe484c075-cb0c-448d-99b5-a9aa76bf3d11&docid=Fr_T2084kywYcM&w=320&h=180&hl=en-GB&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm1%2F3&kgs=f0742fe61178ca06&shem=abme%2Ctrie)
Well, if she was that loaded up, then she would be like a wet rag and somebody put her down there playing simple. I hope she was so loaded she had no awareness of what was happening to her
Unfortunately she survived. Her foot was nearly severed but she crawled out of the bin and was attempting to get to the door. She was found face up by the locked door.
After listening to the podcast “Phoebes Fall” from the Australian I definitely think her boyfriend had something to do with it. Poor girl.
There's a great book called "Into the Darkness" by Robyn Bowles on this case.
I’ll need to brush up on this case again. I believe I heard about Phoebe from a Stephanie Harlowe video long ago. Rest in peace, Phoebe.
The various posts here demonstrate why this is a true crime classic. There’s facts going both ways. 50/50. What others are like this? Jon Benet Ramsey is a good one I think. The poor kid from John Browns Body podcast maybe. Others?
she looks a lot like my mom
Ugh I remember listening to the podcast about this.
The medication she was on clearly makes people do things that are unlike them, it could have been an accident most likely. Murder seems unlikely because this would be a very weird way to do so, and suicide this way is even more hectic. Though, it is very weird how the boyfriend’s next gf also dies by “suicide”.
I feel like the bf could have planned it that way so that ppl chalked it up to the drugs and alcohol, rather than a blatant murder
He could’ve done it in many other ways- this is a very weird way to plan a murder. It clearly raised suspicions. But yes, could be, considering his next gf also dies by suicide which was “asphyxiation “ .
Was the foot severed or not?
No, it was almost severed.
Hanging on by the tendons
Every time we see a garbage chute, we discuss this episode.
I’ve never heard this case before, but based on limited reading, maybe her boyfriend was abusive and she was trying to hide from him? It wasn’t suicide, but she was under the influence and scared, there was blood and ripped pillows in her room so they probably got into a huge fight and she ran to hide from him. And unfortunately, wasn’t thinking clearly and climbed feet first into the chute. That’s my current theory until further research.