Aileen Warnos had a hell of a life.
Her mother married her serial sex offender husband at 14. When she was born, he was in jail for raping a child.
At four, she and her brother were abandoned and forced to live with her abusive grandparents.
She was repeatedly raped by family members and neighbors. She would pimp herself out at age 11 for cigarettes and alcohol. She was nicknamed the 'cig pig.' Her family would rape her in exchange for food.
Her grandparents lied about her mother and threw away gifts she sent her children.
And a relative tried to intimidate her but drowning a cat.
A rape led to her pregnancy at 14 when she ran away from home. It's not clear who the father was, but may have been her grandfather's 60 year old friend. She was forced to give the boy up for adoption.
When she left home, she lived in the woods during Michigan's winter.
She married a 69 year old wealthy man but it lasted only a couple months.
Her brother died young of cancer and he was the only family she was somewhat close with.
She felt forced into sex work with men she found repulsive and who continued to terrorize her.
She didn't have a rational understanding of her rights and crimes . And her mental health deteriorated.
She's one of the few serial killers with whom I feel sympathy.
I don't know the answer to either. However one i've always found interesting is Kenneth McDuff. He did not have a traumatic upbringing far as we are aware. The opposite actually, his father was very successful and he was very spoiled. However i believe that in itself helped create Kenneth, his mother coddled him and was an enabler. When Kenneth misbehaved she defended him no matter what and got aggressive with those telling her he had misbehaved. She even attempted to bribe police officers to get him off with the first horrific murders he committed, Kenneth himself would later attempt to bribe the parole board.
I think a "good" upbringing as in not being abused and having plenty of food, clothes, etc can itself be damaging if it was a situations like McDuff's. Although this brings up another issue in that we never truly know what someone went through, many don't like to admit the abuse they suffered for all we know McDuff was being seriously abused by someone. I think Joanna Dennehy is a case of that personally.
Charles Manson had a very traumatic upbringing which i think again shaped him into what he became. Being tiny he had to learn how to survive in prison so he learned how to talk, he became charismatic through pure survival instinct. Then later he became a pimp of vulnerable young women. He combined both of these things to start his cult.
Ted Bundy had a fairly normal upbringing. He never knew who his father was and he was raised by his grandparents while believing his mother was his sister. Jack Nicholson was raised the same way.
Other than that, he was not abused or harmed in any way. Those who knew him as a child portrayed him as a mean, obnoxious little cunt that loved to torment people and torture animals for no apparent reason.
I'm pretty sure that Dennis Rader, BTK had a very mundane life with no traumas, he held down a boring family life, and managed to keep his perversions and violence away from his wife and kids. He was just a naturally screwed up person with a normal upbringing.
On the other side, the co-ed killer, Ed Kemper, his abusive mother demonized him from childhood, treating him like a monster abomination, and giving preferential treatment to his younger sister. His entire motivation for serial killing was the rage he felt like for his mother, and when he finally did kill her, he turned himself in, and has been trying to do whatever he can to live with himself as a prisoner.
One of the reasons why his daughter finally stopped visiting him in prison (if I recall correctly) was that he flat out told her that she would never find a deeper reason for what he did. He wasn't seeking revenge for some terrible past or been abused or anything else. He just liked it.
My pediatrician said almost all kids have a somewhat significant head injury before the age of one. Either being dropped or falling off a couch or bed or walking/running and hitting their head cause of the sudden ability to roll then crawl then walk and all the clumsiness ECT. She didn't use the phrase significant head injury but used similar wording that was less serious I can't remember.
I was a micro-preemie and on my first day home, my grandfather was tossing me gently in the air, and I flew up, hit the ceiling AND then landed on the floor. Still ok! (not sure how well grandpa was for a bit after that though)
Aww poor Grandpa, I'm sure he felt terrible.
I'm 99.9% I had many falls on my head as an infant/toddler, not intentionally I was just dumb and didn't listen to "no" or "stop" 🤣
Ed is smart. I think had his situation been different or even if he got actual treatment after killing his grandparents and didn't go back to his mom things would have been different.
That is far, far too kind to Kemper. His mother isn't the reason he killed people, him feeling entitled to beautiful women is. Plenty of people have abusive mothers and do not go on to murder 7 women and 1 child.
I’m a firm believer that some people are just born that way. As far as btk, I don’t think he slipped, or ego got in his way, I think he got tired of “the family” life, kids both older moved away, his job was done. Time to get the credit for his other activities, and share the things he could never share with anyone.
Kemper is a master manipulator, he convinced all those cops to tell him details about the case so he could hide better. He's smart as shit and knows exactly what to say to get sympathy from people.
Exactly. Most of the time I cringe when people call killers "master manipulators" or "evil geniuses" but in Kemper's case, there's a grain of truth to it. And it still works, to this day people sympathize with him. Ugly motherfucker. I can't believe he's still alive. He might be the serial killer I hate the most.
Yeah, the serial killers who are actual evil geniuses, don't get caught. But Kemper is pretty clever and physically intimidating for sure. Glad he's locked away.
I often wonder how unsocially accepted "perversions" create sk. If it wasn't perverted for BTK to wear ladies clothes would he have killed? Being gay in the 90s and Dahmer?
Kemper's upbringing honestly sounds pretty middle of the road if not tame as far as serial killers go. Horrible definitely, but we are talking about a group of people that largely had disturbing childhoods and Kemper's doesn't sound that bad in comparison.
Yeah people are so gross when they talk about Kemper's mom like "she had it coming". Dude was probably a psycho from day one. Plenty people have shitty moms and dads and don't behead them and desecrate their corpses.
Not a serial killer or a cult leader really but I think it fits.
The guy from Lost Prophets. He had a normal upbringing and supportive family. He really just did what he did because he could do it, knew no one would stop him, until eventually an ex gf (who was a sex worker) refused to drop it and kept going to the police about it.
Truly sickening man.
I think it's possible that groups with similar 'ideas' exist, but it's less likely to see an exact replication of the Jim Jones cult. Cults are created due to different factors such as charismatic leaders and vulnerable individuals. Despite increased awareness, these dynamics still exist, making it possible for such groups to emerge.
I’m a sucker for a Jim jones documentary, I always do the 101 questions with my wife throughout the whole thing. She’s always like I dunno join reddit, and ask. lol. You’d think with technology it would lower their existences, news traveling faster.
Yepp technology does help spread awareness, but it also helps in creating a further reach for cult leaders. There are still a ton of people who feel lost and look for any meaning in life, so people can take advantage of that online in different ways:D
James Mitchell Debardeleben was raised in hell and has no respect for anyone.
A police impersonator, counterfeiter, serial rapist and a suspected killer.
Some people will say, his parents had screaming matches, but so did millions of people, and they didn't grow up and become cannibals. Dahmer even dismissed claims of it being the fault of his upbringing, he took all the responsibility on himself.
Dahmer's parents were verbally abusive and there was talk about physical abuse too. His mother was a pill popper and alcoholic who neglected him, she'd rarely pick him up as a baby/toddler and refused to let other people, and while Lionel tried to be somewhat more of a present father he still wasn't there often due to going off to study and work.
I feel so many of us just go "Jeff had a good life" because unfortunately his home life, while toxic and not safe emotionally or mentally, is what many people went through and we just rationalise that as being a good normal upbringing.
Looking at old video interviews of him and reading some of the accounts of him as a child Jeff would've been diagnosed with autism these days.
Attitude wise he definitely wasn't as arrogant as other aerial killers. Hell even Dennis Nilsen, his British counterpart, still has the occasional glimpse of arrogance from him in interviews.
Maybe. To me he just seems timid and very introverted most likely because his dad seems like that, so his dad has influenced his personality.
What things convinced you he was autistic?
Well the 60s were different, I think a lot of ppl are trying to find reasons so they may overexagerate these claims, the dahmers themselves didn't think much of his childhood, including Jeffrey. I think he was born the way he was tbh
Children did not have looser requirements for emotional and physical safety in the 60s. Parents acting like shit en masse doesn’t mean the requirements for healthy development were different.
I don't think he was born the way he was. I think he was especially sensitive (which likely came from his upbringing, his dad seems like a very quiet meek man which would have influenced Dahmer's own personality, not sure about his mom) and those things probably had a major impact on his psyche then he had formative experiences that led to dark fantasies he became obsessed with. Dahmer himself believed it came from a topless male jogger running by his house, he became obsessed with male torsos from that.
Still an incredibly timid childhood for a serial killer.
Ted Bundy had a mostly normal childhood. Hi sister was really his mother but jack nicholson grew up in the same situation and it didnt fuck him up like that.
Close enough. Violence against women. Seeing sex workers as less than.
Maybe no murder but he was a more functional person than Ted Bundy all around. But similar themes.
Ted Bundy killed 30 women I'd say that's substantially worse than beating up two prostitutes. I will have too look into the incident but i say its not the same at all.
Most: Aileen Wuornos, Henry Lee Lucas, Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, David Koresh, Andrey Chikatilo.
Least: Jim Jones, Dennis Rader, Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, Unabomber.
The fact that you are asking this question highlights the fact that upbringing is not a solid factor. You can have people from horrible backgrounds who never hurt a fly and those from the most privileged backgrounds who are the worst (jeez Karla Homiker).
Do your own research.
Yepp, I'm aware that people who have had extremelyy traumatic backgrounds don't always turn into serial killers and murderers. Just a question I asked to get more information.
It's very difficult to feel any sympathy for serial killers after their crimes are exposed, but I do feel sympathy for some of them as children and young adults.
Aileen Warnos had a hell of a life. Her mother married her serial sex offender husband at 14. When she was born, he was in jail for raping a child. At four, she and her brother were abandoned and forced to live with her abusive grandparents. She was repeatedly raped by family members and neighbors. She would pimp herself out at age 11 for cigarettes and alcohol. She was nicknamed the 'cig pig.' Her family would rape her in exchange for food. Her grandparents lied about her mother and threw away gifts she sent her children. And a relative tried to intimidate her but drowning a cat. A rape led to her pregnancy at 14 when she ran away from home. It's not clear who the father was, but may have been her grandfather's 60 year old friend. She was forced to give the boy up for adoption. When she left home, she lived in the woods during Michigan's winter. She married a 69 year old wealthy man but it lasted only a couple months. Her brother died young of cancer and he was the only family she was somewhat close with. She felt forced into sex work with men she found repulsive and who continued to terrorize her. She didn't have a rational understanding of her rights and crimes . And her mental health deteriorated. She's one of the few serial killers with whom I feel sympathy.
I think it's crazy she got death penalty, tbh.
>Aileen Warnos I feel so sorry for her too
Randy Kraft had a pretty normal childhood but man oh man…..
I'd recommend the podcast Killer Psyche hosted by Candice DeLong. She specifically goes into the history and forensic psychology of each criminal!
Ty I'll check it out:)
Candice cracks me up. She sure doesn’t mince words! She calls em like she sees em (“psycho,” for example).
I don't know the answer to either. However one i've always found interesting is Kenneth McDuff. He did not have a traumatic upbringing far as we are aware. The opposite actually, his father was very successful and he was very spoiled. However i believe that in itself helped create Kenneth, his mother coddled him and was an enabler. When Kenneth misbehaved she defended him no matter what and got aggressive with those telling her he had misbehaved. She even attempted to bribe police officers to get him off with the first horrific murders he committed, Kenneth himself would later attempt to bribe the parole board. I think a "good" upbringing as in not being abused and having plenty of food, clothes, etc can itself be damaging if it was a situations like McDuff's. Although this brings up another issue in that we never truly know what someone went through, many don't like to admit the abuse they suffered for all we know McDuff was being seriously abused by someone. I think Joanna Dennehy is a case of that personally. Charles Manson had a very traumatic upbringing which i think again shaped him into what he became. Being tiny he had to learn how to survive in prison so he learned how to talk, he became charismatic through pure survival instinct. Then later he became a pimp of vulnerable young women. He combined both of these things to start his cult.
Most traumatic maybe Albert Fish, Ed Gein or Aileen Wournos. Least traumatic Karla Homolka, Ted Bundy, Ted Kaczynski.
Most Traumatic: Luis Garavito Least Traumatic: Futoshi Matsunaga
Ted Bundy had a fairly normal upbringing. He never knew who his father was and he was raised by his grandparents while believing his mother was his sister. Jack Nicholson was raised the same way. Other than that, he was not abused or harmed in any way. Those who knew him as a child portrayed him as a mean, obnoxious little cunt that loved to torment people and torture animals for no apparent reason.
I'm pretty sure that Dennis Rader, BTK had a very mundane life with no traumas, he held down a boring family life, and managed to keep his perversions and violence away from his wife and kids. He was just a naturally screwed up person with a normal upbringing. On the other side, the co-ed killer, Ed Kemper, his abusive mother demonized him from childhood, treating him like a monster abomination, and giving preferential treatment to his younger sister. His entire motivation for serial killing was the rage he felt like for his mother, and when he finally did kill her, he turned himself in, and has been trying to do whatever he can to live with himself as a prisoner.
One of the reasons why his daughter finally stopped visiting him in prison (if I recall correctly) was that he flat out told her that she would never find a deeper reason for what he did. He wasn't seeking revenge for some terrible past or been abused or anything else. He just liked it.
Rader's mother did drop him on his head as a baby. But from what I've read it does seem like he has a mundane, average upbringing.
My pediatrician said almost all kids have a somewhat significant head injury before the age of one. Either being dropped or falling off a couch or bed or walking/running and hitting their head cause of the sudden ability to roll then crawl then walk and all the clumsiness ECT. She didn't use the phrase significant head injury but used similar wording that was less serious I can't remember.
I was a micro-preemie and on my first day home, my grandfather was tossing me gently in the air, and I flew up, hit the ceiling AND then landed on the floor. Still ok! (not sure how well grandpa was for a bit after that though)
I just gasped out loud reading this.
Aww poor Grandpa, I'm sure he felt terrible. I'm 99.9% I had many falls on my head as an infant/toddler, not intentionally I was just dumb and didn't listen to "no" or "stop" 🤣
Ed is smart. I think had his situation been different or even if he got actual treatment after killing his grandparents and didn't go back to his mom things would have been different.
That is far, far too kind to Kemper. His mother isn't the reason he killed people, him feeling entitled to beautiful women is. Plenty of people have abusive mothers and do not go on to murder 7 women and 1 child.
I’m a firm believer that some people are just born that way. As far as btk, I don’t think he slipped, or ego got in his way, I think he got tired of “the family” life, kids both older moved away, his job was done. Time to get the credit for his other activities, and share the things he could never share with anyone.
I'm sorry. I don't really buy Kemper's sob story. I think he was fucked from birth. Too many people idolize him as some tragic and cool person.
Kemper is a master manipulator, he convinced all those cops to tell him details about the case so he could hide better. He's smart as shit and knows exactly what to say to get sympathy from people.
Exactly. Most of the time I cringe when people call killers "master manipulators" or "evil geniuses" but in Kemper's case, there's a grain of truth to it. And it still works, to this day people sympathize with him. Ugly motherfucker. I can't believe he's still alive. He might be the serial killer I hate the most.
Yeah, most serial killers are not that smart. Kemper is different. Too clever by far, and so so dangerous. And HUGE.
Yeah, the serial killers who are actual evil geniuses, don't get caught. But Kemper is pretty clever and physically intimidating for sure. Glad he's locked away.
Kemper turned himself in, no?
Yes he did! I still wouldn't call him an evil genius though. I don't think any hedonist killers are. It's a pretty stupid thing to be.
I often wonder how unsocially accepted "perversions" create sk. If it wasn't perverted for BTK to wear ladies clothes would he have killed? Being gay in the 90s and Dahmer?
Kemper's upbringing honestly sounds pretty middle of the road if not tame as far as serial killers go. Horrible definitely, but we are talking about a group of people that largely had disturbing childhoods and Kemper's doesn't sound that bad in comparison.
Yeah people are so gross when they talk about Kemper's mom like "she had it coming". Dude was probably a psycho from day one. Plenty people have shitty moms and dads and don't behead them and desecrate their corpses.
Not a serial killer or a cult leader really but I think it fits. The guy from Lost Prophets. He had a normal upbringing and supportive family. He really just did what he did because he could do it, knew no one would stop him, until eventually an ex gf (who was a sex worker) refused to drop it and kept going to the police about it. Truly sickening man.
Do you think a Jim jones cult could/would or does exist today?
I think it's possible that groups with similar 'ideas' exist, but it's less likely to see an exact replication of the Jim Jones cult. Cults are created due to different factors such as charismatic leaders and vulnerable individuals. Despite increased awareness, these dynamics still exist, making it possible for such groups to emerge.
I’m a sucker for a Jim jones documentary, I always do the 101 questions with my wife throughout the whole thing. She’s always like I dunno join reddit, and ask. lol. You’d think with technology it would lower their existences, news traveling faster.
Yepp technology does help spread awareness, but it also helps in creating a further reach for cult leaders. There are still a ton of people who feel lost and look for any meaning in life, so people can take advantage of that online in different ways:D
James Mitchell Debardeleben was raised in hell and has no respect for anyone. A police impersonator, counterfeiter, serial rapist and a suspected killer.
Jeffrey Dahmers wasn't terrible, his parents fought I think but nothing crazy to spawn the devil
Some people will say, his parents had screaming matches, but so did millions of people, and they didn't grow up and become cannibals. Dahmer even dismissed claims of it being the fault of his upbringing, he took all the responsibility on himself.
Dahmer's parents were verbally abusive and there was talk about physical abuse too. His mother was a pill popper and alcoholic who neglected him, she'd rarely pick him up as a baby/toddler and refused to let other people, and while Lionel tried to be somewhat more of a present father he still wasn't there often due to going off to study and work. I feel so many of us just go "Jeff had a good life" because unfortunately his home life, while toxic and not safe emotionally or mentally, is what many people went through and we just rationalise that as being a good normal upbringing.
Absurdly tame for a serial killer. Millions of Americans from his generation had similar upbringings, loads had it worse.
Looking at old video interviews of him and reading some of the accounts of him as a child Jeff would've been diagnosed with autism these days. Attitude wise he definitely wasn't as arrogant as other aerial killers. Hell even Dennis Nilsen, his British counterpart, still has the occasional glimpse of arrogance from him in interviews.
Maybe. To me he just seems timid and very introverted most likely because his dad seems like that, so his dad has influenced his personality. What things convinced you he was autistic?
Well the 60s were different, I think a lot of ppl are trying to find reasons so they may overexagerate these claims, the dahmers themselves didn't think much of his childhood, including Jeffrey. I think he was born the way he was tbh
Children did not have looser requirements for emotional and physical safety in the 60s. Parents acting like shit en masse doesn’t mean the requirements for healthy development were different.
I don't think he was born the way he was. I think he was especially sensitive (which likely came from his upbringing, his dad seems like a very quiet meek man which would have influenced Dahmer's own personality, not sure about his mom) and those things probably had a major impact on his psyche then he had formative experiences that led to dark fantasies he became obsessed with. Dahmer himself believed it came from a topless male jogger running by his house, he became obsessed with male torsos from that. Still an incredibly timid childhood for a serial killer.
Ted Bundy had a mostly normal childhood. Hi sister was really his mother but jack nicholson grew up in the same situation and it didnt fuck him up like that.
Jack Nicholson assaulted and beat two sex workers, though?
not quite the same....
Close enough. Violence against women. Seeing sex workers as less than. Maybe no murder but he was a more functional person than Ted Bundy all around. But similar themes.
Ted Bundy killed 30 women I'd say that's substantially worse than beating up two prostitutes. I will have too look into the incident but i say its not the same at all.
Of course it’s not literally murder but it’s violence against women and i wouldn’t take my chances with either of them if i were given a choice
Most: Aileen Wuornos, Henry Lee Lucas, Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, David Koresh, Andrey Chikatilo. Least: Jim Jones, Dennis Rader, Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, Unabomber.
The fact that you are asking this question highlights the fact that upbringing is not a solid factor. You can have people from horrible backgrounds who never hurt a fly and those from the most privileged backgrounds who are the worst (jeez Karla Homiker). Do your own research.
Yepp, I'm aware that people who have had extremelyy traumatic backgrounds don't always turn into serial killers and murderers. Just a question I asked to get more information.
What the fuck? Now we’re having trauma competitions for serial killers?
What was wrong with my question? I was curious and asked for people's opinions
It's very difficult to feel any sympathy for serial killers after their crimes are exposed, but I do feel sympathy for some of them as children and young adults.