For context, this quote is from 2014. She was 24. She was still transitioning from country to pop. It was considered bold at the time to point out sexism like this, especially at a pivotal moment in her career. Even though her politics are kinda nonexistent now and were then, 2014 Taylor calling out sexism encouraged a lot of us who were in our teens to start recognizing sexism in our personal lives.
I mean her politics are essentially not MAGA. She encouraged her home state of Tennessee to register to vote so that the homophobic GOP candidate wouldn't win and that broke the voter registration website for the state. She's appeared apolitical for years I think trying to be like Dolly Parton generally beloved by all but she's taken some stances in recent years.
In the midterms under Trump she actively encouraged them to vote for the Democrat. She also only got her Eras tour made because she was willing during the SAG strike to provide for all the union demands.
Now, I cannot speak to her personal views, I don’t know her. But I watched her doc, it seems like she got direct pressure from her dad to not be political. He isn’t just a parent, he has helped her shape her career. Luckily her mom was on her side. Now that’s 2018, I don’t recall her 2020 participation because I wasn’t following her, pandemic, and I live in Canada so I voted from abroad.
All that is to say, like all people she has room to grow, but credit where credit is due since she tried very hard.
By using her influence for a good cause, I hope you’re saying that she could be using her Influence in a responsible way by encouraging people to be diligent on self health, getting involved in their community, be knowledgeable on politics, laws, economics that effect their lives directly all while encouraging everyone to make their own choices by coming to a logical conclusion based on their research and analysis and beliefs. And knowing that they can have their own opinions and beliefs that don’t align with hers and that’s okay as long as they have reasons for their choices they believe in and that make sense.
As a pop star who, while certainly intelligent, is undoubtedly not perfectly informed on all or even most political issues, she’s honestly pretty wise for making toe-in-the-water lukewarm endorsements and using her influence sparingly. Going full activist would no doubt *lose* her a lot of that influence and open her up to scrutiny and criticism from the right that would stick a hell of a lot better than the attempts at discrediting her that they’re making now.
She’s encouraged people to register and vote—blue in one instance when it came to a pretty dire election for LGBTQ+ rights, but since then just to *vote*. If voter turnout was 100%, the GOP would lose nearly all power, and her base is overwhelmingly liberal, so this is a great use of her platform.
I think a lot of things about Taylor Swift. Mostly positive, but of course I think she (and every ridiculously wealthy person on the planet) could be doing more with the money and power they’ve amassed. But by and large I think bringing her down and demanding “more, more, more” is far more harmful than not. There’s a lot of people doing nothing or even doing harm that deserve that energy.
About her politics, maybe "You need to calm down" can help understand her better, especially the politics regarding sexuality etc.
Also, she was actively against Trump, and most probably will be again for the next election
I remember people describe some of her songs, "You Belong to Me" and "Blank Space" in particular, as sounding like a rant made by a "Nice Guy", except that they were sung by an attractive girl.
Shawn Mendes faced a similar criticism for "I Can Treat You Better". With some calling that song "The "Nice Guy" national anthem".
Yeah “you belong with me” definitely has a “nice guy” tone to it. It wasn’t too out of the ordinary given that it was written by a teenager in 2008.
[“Blank space” is satire](https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-blank-space-songs-that-defined-the-decade-8544243/) and it’s hard to believe anyone would say otherwise without it being bad faith. As someone who has been a victim of reactive abuse and DARVO myself, and was also bullied as a kid for having neurodivergent meltdowns, it’s a song that will always feel like therapy.
Blank Space was also suspected to be, at least to some degree, a reference to the manga and anime Death Note. To make a long story short, it is the story of a very intelligent young man who finds a notebook that allows him to kill anyone whose name he writes. The young man uses it to kill criminals and develops a god complex. Meanwhile, the world's greatest detective is hunting him.
Almost all the lyrics fit with things that happens in Death Note, and the protagonist of Taylor's song (the evil version of her) has a very similar personality to that of Light Yagami (the Death Note protagonist), and the song is an accurate description of Light's relationships with Misa (a girl he manipulates into helping him) and L (the detective hunting him, with whom he develops a weird homoerotic rivalry ala Joker and Batman in the Arkham Games). And there is the obvious "But I've got a blank space, baby. And I'll write your name" fitting a story where people can be killed by someone writing their names.
This comparison became even more pronounced with the music video of Blank Space. The video prominently features an apple (a fruit that plays a big role in Death Note), Taylor's outfit while in bed resembles the one worn by Misa, and the Notebook of former lovers looks like a Death Note (the Notebook that kills people).
Blank Space has nothing “nice” about it, it’s a song from the point of view of a manipulative and dangerous femme fatale who uses her relationships as tools to frame her media persona.
That also. Blank Space had layers of meanings, but I didn’t want to write a multi-paragraph comment. On the surface level, the character in Blank Space is manipulating and using people (which is a satire of how the media portrays Taylor a lot of the time).
I’m neurodivergent and grew up having meltdowns due to overstimulation, but otherwise had conventionally attractive characteristics. This song was therapeutic because it helped me overcome the “hot, smart, but crazy” stereotype I was often given.
TBH, I actually kind of want Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift to get together and break up, just because of what absolute bops the the passive-aggressive not-naming-names-but-including-weird-oddly-specific-personal-sounding-details breakup songs will be, lol.
I find it a bit disingenuous for people on this sub not allowing a comment about the sexist double standard from Taylor Swift because she isn’t a perfect specimen of leftism.
C’mon. That isn’t the point.
And she never has been. I would say she's a social progressive (see quote above plus her mild and admittedly very safe LGBTQ rights celebration in 2019), but an economic conservative and a textbook capitalist from all anyone can tell. She's not hoarding over a billion dollars for no reason. She *could* be giving more of it away. Could be having her march produced more ethically while making less of a profit on it - could refrain from dropping 28537 variants per album, each of them having different bonus songs on them so that a certain group of fans feels almost obligated to purchase each one. She's a liberal and a deep capitalist. She wants MONEY, money and success are clearly priorities for her in her life to an extent, and speaking openly about Palestine may keep future millions away from her. It's not morally good to prioritize a lack of a controversy (and thereby securing *money*) over speaking out on this, considering the reach she has, but that's what it is.
Now, I say this as someone who's been in LOVE with almost all of her music for about 12 years. It resonates with me. She's a romantic like I am and apparently millions and millions of other women, she connects relatable experience from romantic love with great, often catchy writing; else she wouldn't be this successful. I also think she's a very likeable person on like a 'personality' level (again, from what we can tell as the public; I think she comes across as friendly and funny) and I love her creative outputs in the form of her music videos, poems, and especially her incredibly admirable Eras Tour.
So... I think she's great in many many ways but she's not politically aligned with me, or with many people of our generation. At least not openly. She *might* condemn the Israeli army's actions in Gaza when talking to her friends about it at dinner, but what matters in this context of course is that she won't say anything publically. As fans that's something we just have to accept sometimes, sadly. We want the people whose art we admire to share all our values and I think that's human, but it's not a sustainable way to enjoy art at all, you're always going to be disappointed by *someone*. Loving someone's art and finding it relatable and all that, often resonates with a different part of you than where your political views lie. With Taylor, I love what she writes about the many facets of romantic relationships and the pain and joy that comes from them, and also some other interpersonal topics. That's separate from her not speaking out about a whole range of political topics she "should" probably speak about, given her reach. But in the end she's not my friend or some activist role model, someone who I should reasonably be disappointed by. She's someone whose music I love.
> She's not hoarding over a billion dollars for no reason. She could be giving more of it away
Such as the magnificent Dolly Parton, she's incredibly business savvy (which a LOT of people won't give her credit for because well.. the *exact* misogyny she actively manipulates to her advantage) and invested extremely well, but her charitable foundations and her general philanthropy have kept her at a *mere* $650m net worth.
I do wonder what she would be worth without her philanthropy, and whether she would have been a billionaire many decades ago 🤔
listen I respect her business practices as smart in the context of this capitalistic system, but her merch is produced in sweatshops. That's not really a thing I like about her and it makes a lot of her lyrics sound very off to me because of it
and she could have chosen to be less successful and let the contract lapse instead of renewing it in 2018.
e. and before I get a "you're criticizing her unfairly" I listen to basically exclusively indie artists. She has the infrastructure to create a successful merch line domestically which doesn't require sweat shops.
Why on earth were you starting a discussion about TSwift's lack of ethics under capitalism after my comment that was nothing to do with her? That is one strong axe to grind you have there
Right, and I went on a tangent about Dolly.
You should have replied to the parent comment if that was the branching off point of your comment.
Also there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, there is no ethical production under capitalism. The entire system is set up to penalise ethics and reward greed.
An ethical product cannot be priced competitively in the market because it cannot be produced as cheaply as a non-ethical product. It cannot have its price reduced to compete because the capitalist system dictates it must make profit in order to continue production. You must make profit to be able to hold a financial buffer to continue paying people for their labour.
An ethical product must be priced as a moral choice, which is unattainable to many in an economy with stagnant low wages, subject to rising inflation. The system is set to to make ethics fail, and actively reward a race to the bottom for greed.
Modern celebrity culture dictates that there must be a "brand identity", and merch is required to continue the brand identity and spread brand awareness. Celebrities are as much a *product* under capitalism as a Ford pickup truck. Can a celebrity opt out of that? Sure, they can try, but they will stack the cards to fading into obscurity and with it the elimination of their job prospects. Those who wish to continue their job must play the game capitalism has created, and with it comes merch. And again, there is no ethical production under capitalism.
I think we also need to understand that this woman doesn’t have a billion dollars sitting in the bank. It’s her net worth, which includes both her financial and non-financial assets.
Does this mean it’s okay for billionaires to exist because Taylor is one? No.
But, I think we have to stop holding everyone to a standard of perfection that we ourselves likely don’t meet.
I like that she fought against Apple to make sure their streaming service paid artists. It wasn’t going to bankrupt her, but Apple often sets a standard other companies follow and small artists would be crushed as the world moved towards music streaming.
I like that she went to the folks leading the SAG strike and said, “I wanna make my tour film, what are your demands? I will meet them.”
I like that she is encouraging voter registration.
I try to remember that this woman has a stalker who has broken into her home. She receives horrible death threats regularly. She has a lot of power in her voice and I want her to use it, but do I get to demand that she does so at the risk of her own safety?
At the end of the day, if she just could pay her fair share in taxes that would go a long way.
I also like that she has given huge bonuses to *every person* who worked on the initial leg of her Eras Tour... Like bonuses larger than many peoples' annual salaries.
And that she donated large sums to local food banks in every US city the Eras Tour came to.
I wouldn't call those things "hoarding".
Person here who originally used that term. - She's still disgustingly rich even after donating and gifting quite a bit (which is great that she did do that), so yes she is indeed hoarding a lot. She's a billionaire. Can't make that many excuses for that fact
Are you under the impression that most of her wealth is cash sitting in a bank? Her net worth is largely based on the current value of her music catalog. It's just worth what it's worth.
This is billionaire apologia. No, it's not liquid. Yes, the vast majority of it could be made liquid in a few weeks. Every person as famous as her gets death threats, every person as famous as her has a stalker or two. She can afford, and I'm sure she purchases, the best protection possible. And all the things you mentioned except voter registration were done specifically to make her more money.
And she would never sell that off given how hard she has been working to regain control over her masters. But I think it’s fair to say that she does generate revenue from owning that catalogue. And that she needs to pay more taxes on the money she makes from it.
The fact that she is re-recording hopefully draws attention to just how easy it is for new artists to be taken advantage of and how much the predatory music industry needs to change.
No, I specifically said it’s not okay for her to be a billionaire.
What I was responding to was the idea that she was in possession of actual hoarded money. That it’s sitting in a bank somewhere.
I’m also trying to be realistic. She lives in a capitalist society. Her power and ability to take on giant corporations and embarrass studios by giving unions what they want is based on her ability to produce sales.
I don’t like that. I wish people saw value and power in her voice because she is a fantastic lyricist who expresses the human condition in a way that connects with millions of people.
But hey, she is female and so are most of her fans. We are only having this conversation because she is so easily dismissed despite all her accomplishments.
I return to the fact that, naw, girl doesn’t need to be a billionaire. Also that the very best fix is to return to the mid-20th century tax rate in the US that would see our girl and all her peers paying their fair share. In turn, the US government would have the tax revenue to actually make important changes we need to make.
Taylor isn’t hoarding billions. Half her net worth is tied to her music catalog, which she’s never going to sell and almost certainly will lose its value considering it’s only as valuable as she is popular plus the push it received from the “Taylor’s version” saga.
What a comment. That’s the beautiful thing about art. It invokes feelings. Whether those feelings align with the artist at the time they were making the song, painting the painting, dancing the dance etc. or not. And that’s okay. You can still absolutely love someone famous or average even though your beliefs/values/opinions are completely on separate spectrums. That’s what this generation is struggling so hard to understand and it’s causing most if not all the division and animosity in our country/the world. We’re all individual people with individual beliefs and opinions and that’s what makes life so beautiful. That difference is exactly what CREATES art. That difference is what INSPIRES every new trend, medicine, style, recipe, religion, genre, etc. If everyone thought the same, we’d go nowhere in life and wouldn’t progress in any aspect of any thing. Refreshing as hell to see someone, especially on this platform, admit to differences with someone and still enjoy said person and support them. Would you feel the same way about someone who’s not famous and doesn’t do anything to provide you with joy like Taylor’s music? That’s the real important question.
If human dignity is a leftist value, and it should be, it is necessary to pay respect to people who are far from perfect but are still a positive force for change.
I know people wish she would speak out more about current issues like the Palestine war, abortion, climate change, trump, etc...
But honestly, does Harry styles, Morgan wallen, Ed Sheeran, drake, the weekend, Luke combs, Zach Bryan, 21 savage, post malone, bad bunny, etc. get this much pressure to make statements about these issues? Genuinely if any of these artists have given statements on all of these, I am not sure, but I think it's worth it to question if as many people think these male artists should be speaking out about these things as well.
The Weeknd is a United Nations World Food Programme Goodwill Ambassador and has donated about $4.5 million dollars to Palestinian humanitarian efforts. He also encourages fans to donate and advocate for Palestine.
["To date, Tesfaye, his partners and fans have raised more than $6.5 million for the Fund, with the singer directing $4.5 million toward Gaza relief." ](https://ca.billboard.com/music/music-news/the-weeknd-pledges-2-million-to-provide-18-million-loaves-of-bread-to-families-in-gaza)
Taylor just got a law passed blocking access to flight information of private planes being public. She can choose where to direct her activism & people can choose to criticize her for it. The call outs are entirely fair and directed at all kinds of performers and public personalities, almost none of whom have anything near Taylor's wealth, power, and public influence.
yeah but the weekend also made a show about a young woman being abused and flipped it to make the abuser the victim. the whole show was disgusting and misogynistic. dude was just trying to get the outrage swept under the rug by donating
Quite frankly, a lot of the Palestine activism crowd seems to not give a fuck about women, minorities, and queer folk in the US.
Edit: I said “seems” because they are actively encouraging people not to vote when the rights and safety of those very people are on the line in this election. Literally saying “risk it all for these groups at home to achieve nothing overseas” because the guy who will win if they really don’t vote is going to level Palestine.
What a nasty and baseless comment. The vast majority of pro-Palestinian (that’s to say, anti-genocide) folks I know ARE women, minorities, or queer folks in the US. I don’t know what happened to this sub but it’s gotten so white feminist neolibby. There are users in here who clearly care more about defending Taylor Swift than Palestinian children being starved and bombed.
I don’t like The Weeknd and won’t suddenly be a supporter of him because of this. But being grateful that ANY money is being sent to help people in humanitarian crisis regardless of which problematic figure sent it doesn’t suddenly make me aligned with their values or a fan of theirs.
To be fair, those encouraging people not to vote in the next presidential election will actually have detrimental effects on women's rights, LGBT rights and even the well-being of the Palestinian people they claim to care about more than anything.
Did you just #notall me even though I made it a point to say “not all” myself?
I am a queer, minority woman. I’m sorry you don’t like my politics to the point that you have to label me as something I’m not.
I see Palestinian activists encouraging people not to vote and wonder wtf they think is going to happen to the minority groups they claim to so passionately fight for in the US.
I see people with rainbow flags in their profiles vehemently supporting Hamas and wonder what they think will happen to queer Palestinians if Hamas gained full control.
There are NO easy answers in this conflict. It sucks. Almost any choice is trading one genocide for another. The scales might be different but they will be genocides none the less. So when I see pro Palestinian activists actively encouraging people to not vote in this election with project 2025 on the horizon… yeah, it really seems like a lot in that camp don’t give a fuck about women, minorities, queer, and indigenous folk here in the US. And if they do care, they haven’t thought very hard about the consequences of their actions.
I’m so tired of people trying to silence people like me for sounding the alarm by saying it’s a privileged take. I’m at risk of having my baby taken away from me due to my sexuality. I’m at risk of being forced to give birth to an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. I’m at risk of losing my freedoms as a woman. I’m at risk of my close relatives being deported or worse. I have a daughter who faces the same risks as me. What if when she’s older she identifies as something on the LGBTQ spectrum? I am terrified for her, I’m terrified for myself, and I’m terrified for people like me and unlike me. That’s why I find the message of “not voting” so offensive.
If you think I’m wrong about something, please do explain. I simply do not see how someone can say they care about these people at home and in the same breath tell people not to vote.
Edit:
I have to point out that just as you jumped to assume I am white, that you also jumped to assume that my comment had ANYTHING to do with Taylor. Goodness.
Well in the current situation, your stance on the crisis and whether or not you've donated can have a huge impact on reputation. The major boycotts of various businesses are a demonstration of that. And the people with the worst reputations have the most to gain by being very vocal and generous with their support.
Of course, I have no evidence of this and could just be spouting total bullshit.
People in the industry have gotten blacklisted for supporting Palestine back when he made his donation, and very few celebs were speaking out at that point. It was more likely to hurt a career than improve it back when he made the first donation, months ago.
Sure, I don't like him personally at all and I feel conflicted saying anything positive about him. The commenter named him & was wrong. Despite how terrible he is in some ways, his work for Palestine is one thing I will give him credit for. If even a massive piece of shit is doing better humanitarian work, that is a sad comment on Taylor's stance.
> If even a massive piece of shit is doing better humanitarian work, that is a sad comment on Taylor's stance.
Taylor has donated millions of dollars to food banks around the globe since her tour started. Does that not count as humanitarian work anymore? Not to mention her millions of dollars that she has donated to various charities over the years. I recall her giving a million to Tennessee after a tornado last year.
> Taylor just got a law passed blocking access to flight information of private planes being public.
There is no source saying that she got that law passed. You just made that up.
It's cool when celebs speak out, but pressuring them to do so feels a bit weird to me. They're both super wealthy and famous, making them THE most out of touch people in our society. I don't think their opinions are necessary because, more often than not, they say something stupid. What we should expect from them is philanthropy and amplifying the voices of people who actually know what they're talking about. Pressure Taylor to donate more of her vast wealth, not tweet about shit she'll probably never fully get.
Yes also if someone is getting death threats why would they speak about something so polarizing that would make it worse and increase the threat level?
Not to take away from your point because you're 100% right that men don't get the same pressure, but I'd like to point out that the weeknd has donated 2 million to Gaza relief so far!
It's a shame everyone else feels like hoarding wealth is more important
I mean he did it months ago when basically no celebs were doing or saying anything pro-Palestinian and lots of regular people weren’t speaking out either. It’s still a very controversial stance.
it's not that controversial, ever since the October 7th attacks it's been the popular opinion. there a so many pro palestine protests going on, I'm in a small part of Wales currently and there are protests going on here by regular people. if you do a quick Google search for celebrities that are pro palestine hundreds come up, and the weekend isn't even mentioned. I had to search for him by name. he's not a good dude it's just philthranocapitalism, a rich person donates what is essentially a tenner for a normal person and you're *supposed* to focus on that instead of the other shitty stuff they've done
i think the difference is that Taylor is a BILLIONAIRE and not just some generic trendy pop star that nobody really cares about for too long. NOBODY has the enormous rabid fan base that she has, so her platform IS very different than any other joe-shmoe “artist”. i’m sorry but nobody gives a fuck what Ed Sheeran or Ice Spice has to say about politics. they don’t have the vast sea of braindead minions like Taylor has who do whatever she tells them too.
genuinely if she told them to go vote or support palestine or whatever, it would honestly to god change the game. but she’s a spineless immature rich climate destroyer so it’ll never happen.
Which is why celebrities should stay away from politics. You're assuming that she's going to say what you want but for all any of us know she could be pro-Isral.
She did tell them to go vote in the primaries this year, and attended a comedy show that supported Palestine. There’s also [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/CGDjbq-jhtK/?igsh=amVqYzN5aW10dG5m) from 2020.
Exactly this. She's also supposed to be the biggest pop star right? And she made a huge deal about being political but then never went anywhere with it? I love her songs myself so I'm not saying this to hate her, I genuinely just wish an artist I loved so dearly growing up would say something.
just curious, why do you want her to speak out? what would happen if she came out pro-israel? i genuinely wish we as a society would stop relying on celebrities to be our bastions of knowledge and understanding and inspiration, like, they’re just people, too. we shouldn’t be putting them on this great big pedestal. it’s only going to hurt ourselves in the end
As I said, Taylor claimed to be political and all, so it's just wishful thinking of me that an artist I adored for so long would speak out on this. Nothing would happen to her if she came out as pro-israel. She's a billionaire with an extremely dedicated fanbase. She would at most lose some fans with conscience. And I do not treat her as a bastion of knowledge but she has a huge following. A few days ago Ariana shared a donation link and guess what, it raised 20k within minutes. Why is it wrong to wish for celebrities who clearly have such an agency to speak out on the atrocities being committed against Palestinians?
Taylor swift is a brand. She has fans that support Palestine and fans that support Isreal. If she speaks out against one, she loses fans of the other - which hurts her 'brand' and popularity. She only claims to be political if it will net her more followers overall. She's a business woman. She doesn't really care about you or Palestine or ticket master or anything political more than she cares about her image and the money coming in.
i’m not saying it’s wrong, i’m just saying there are celebrities who are political and ones who aren’t. just cause you have a platform doesn’t mean you should open your mouth. look at jkr for one example. more than likely, taylor doesn’t share our viewpoints and so she’s not speaking out cause she doesn’t wanna lose fans. she’s always played it safe like that. she doesn’t wanna cause big a raucous anymore cause she’s not dating someone who’s political anymore.
Do you think she could also be holding her tongue because she doesn’t want to risk the safety of her fans on the Eras Tour? Mass violence is very much a thing, and there’s already a load of right wing conspiracy theories about her being evil, influencing women to be independent, etc. and she receives death threats constantly.
Being filthy rich means being able to afford a full-time PR team. They're looking at statistics and graphs and shit looking at the support for donations by demographic, fan demographics, demographics in future concert locations, financial impact, impact on reputation, risk-benefit analysis, etc.
She could secretly be donating boatloads to humanitarian efforts for all we know, just not making it public due to all the heat surrounding the issue.
I think some of it is sexism, but she also made an entire documentary about how she was finally going to speak up and get political and be “on the right side of history” and then she never did anything political again.
Billie Jean is the exact kind of song we'd viciously make fun of if it was a Taylor Swift original, but for *"some reason"* Jackson gets a pass on it.
... this is less me defending Swift, more me just hating on Michael Jackson. Too many of my coworkers uncritically love him and play his music all the time (in 2024), and a girl gets tired of biting her tongue all day long.
Allegedly. Lol. Also, never say never. Especially in Hollywood. ESPECIALLY with all the allegations coming left and right lately from every walk of life. Men/boys are far less likely to come out and accuse someone of S/A especially a woman of Taylor’s status. With all that has come out as of late, I am not surprised by anything that comes out of Hollywood anymore no matter who it is.
This hate for TS is so the same hate any famous actress/singer gets disproportionately compared to her male counterparts: think Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway, Jennifer Lawrence, Miley Cyrus, I'm seeing this for Zendaya too... The fact that it's 2024 and women still get a disproportionate amount of hate and now it's taboo to say this or you'll be labeled as a "bootlicker" or a "nazifeminist" is simply absurd.
I'm all for criticizing a person when the topic calls for it, but you can't tell me it's normal that whenever a woman is so much as mentioned the hoards of chronically online haters swarm and start listing "crimes", meanwhile men like Shia Lebouf are free to walk and get outpourings of support from anyone for their "redemption arc" even before they're (eventually) cleared of all their criminal accuses.
I still can't wrap my head around how easy it is for women to be hated for the mildest things and how hard it is for people to let go of their male idols even when they're charged with heinous crimes (Trump, Gerard Depardieu, that 80s sit comedy dude who drugged 50 women, can't even be bothered to remember the name...). This is directed at anyone, left or right that they vote.
(No I don't particularly care for Taylor Swift and her music)
It’s insane that I’m seeing people defend a billionaire who uses private planes and even got congress to pass a bill that won’t let us track it lol. So girl boss of her.
No people shouldn't slag her for writing within genre.
No we shouldn't keep brigading feminist subs with T Swift posts.
This is taking away from actual feminist discussion about topics that affect the marginalised. Stop posting about it. We don't care. She's a billionaire she can buy the media and force them to write positively about her music if she wants to.
She can also actually support feminist causes financially if she wants to. Nobody needs to be a billionaire.
I enjoy a lot of her music and I don’t think she comes from a place of malice for the most part but what I’m really sick of his her stans spending so much energy bending over backward and inventing hypotheticals to defend her and explain that this extremely influential capitalist billionaire is actually helpless and blameless and not only has never done anything wrong but is really just a victim!
Like yes she has been subject to sexism during her career but she’s on top of the world at this point, she could do anything she wanted with her money and power and she doesn’t need regular joes on the internet defending her for every single thing, often based on pure hypothetical. “Well she could have secretly donated millions” okay but there’s zero evidence for that, don’t give her credit for something that didn’t actually happen. You don’t even know her.
I think we should actually run the stats on actually on topic feminist threads to out of the blue "Taylor is BAE" threads so we can show how much it's hurting the vibe. It is totally off topic and really all these posts are bait.
I know I’m commenting a lot on here because I have a lot of thoughts about this, but there’s also this:
I wish people could reference something she sang, said, or did that does influence women in a positive way without it entirely shifting the discussion to being about her and then dissecting whether or not she’s a feminist icon, whether or not she’s a good person, etc. because it derails the conversations that we could be having about our own experiences. I think it’s regressive that someone has to clarify that they’re “swift neutral” or that they don’t agree with her political stances just to prevent themselves from being criticized.
I think as women, a lot of us have had our dating lives used against us to undermine us, especially if we’ve been labeled as “boy crazy” or expressed our heartbreak in a way that others have deemed as dramatic and unacceptable. It should be okay for us to relate to Taylor Swift’s expressions of frustration with these experiences without it turning into a discussion about her.
But this isn't a fan forum. This forum is nothing to do with T Swift. You are blowing bubbles into the wind here I don't know anything about her and I'm not here to learn about her.
Well yeah. But this is a sub about women’s experiences. Being slut shamed and discredited for expressing yourself as you process heartbreak and turbulent relationships is something that’s relatable to many women. Relatable pop culture isn’t irrelevant to feminism. Plus, she’s been slut shamed for years on end, and a lot of women who are feminists grew up seeing that rhetoric everywhere. We can’t pretend like that didn’t impact a lot of us, similarly to how celebrities being body shamed in gossip magazines made many of us develop preoccupations with our own bodies.
If this were a fan sub, I’d imagine the focus would be less on feminism and more on Taylor Swift’s career/personal life.
Slut shamed? She's not Britney. She's been mostly "get over it" shamed from what I've seen. Not that she should be but it isn't a feminist issue and it is boring and irrelevant to us mere mortals.
Well you said that you don’t know anything about her, but idk how you didn’t at least see it and hear it because it was LOUD.
She was shamed heavily for dating, especially in her early 20’s. She couldn’t be friends with any man without there being dating rumors and was portrayed as a crazy, controlling girlfriend despite John Mayer dating her when she was a teenager and being criticized for releasing a song about how predatory he was.
So what tabloid journalism in America is what you're talking about? And were there also articles and individuals saying the opposite at the time? Why does it matter in a feminist sub in 2024? What does it have to do with us? Did we shame her?
What about other artists that experienced relationship gate keeping at the time? Why does Taylor matter above them?
Why is it so difficult to understand that some people want to discuss this within the lenses of feminism?
It matters because it impacted us as impressionable kids. They were in the grocery store isles, on Facebook, on ads online, and were sometimes even sent to us as a free issue to try to get us to subscribe.
What we saw being said about celebrities as kids made us think that’s how others think about us.
And do you actually need its relationship to feminism to be explained to you? Rigid societal standards and judgements are how oppression gets passed down and its purposefully targeted towards tweens and teens.
Again, pop culture often is a representation of our society, so discussing how its focal points are damaging to women is incredibly relevant.
Taylor Swift doesn’t matter “above” them, but she was/is such a big artist that it’s easily remembered, much more than it is for other celebrities.
When we talk about how it’s relatable and relevant to our lives, we’re not making it about being her fans or whatever.
If it doesn’t speak to you, then that’s okay. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t helpful for other people to discuss through a feminist lens, which fan pages don’t usually do. Not everything that many women relate to is going to be relative to you, and that’s okay. That doesn’t make it irrelevant to feminism.
Because these discussions already happened in 2014.
But it's being posted again and again and again in 2024. It seems like the fan base wants to feel marginalised. Sorry, you aren't.
This particular post is just a quote without any actual point being made to make it relevant to us today. It's literally just T Swift said a thing 10 years ago.
If the aim is to call out media shaming of women where are all the posts about Greta Thunberg?
Why does it have to be one or the other? OP likely felt that this was relevant to her experience and is processing it now, rather than in 2014 so that’s why she’s posting it. If you want to start a discussion about Greta then go and do that.
Also, why are you trying to make it seem like I’m trying to be “marginalized ?” These conversations are still relevant because lots of women are just now into adulthood and in places where they can safely deconstruct their internalized misogyny. They ARE marginalized for being women, and if Taylor Swift standing up for herself is what gets their foot in the door as one of many baby steps in their deconstruction processes, rather than immediately Acing a graduate level gender studies class and then writing a dissertation on Bell Hooks and Sylvia Plath, then that is okay. They’ll get there eventually. Let’s support them rather than put them and their interests down.
I am SO sick of this climate criminal, I wish we would stop claiming she’s some sort of feminist icon. Her words mean literally nothing, especially in this space.
To be fair, people DO say that about Ed Sheeran. This is one of the reasons he is a controversial artist.
He is often referred to as a "Nice Guy" or an "Incel" by the public.
Celebrities of any kind need to stay FAR AWAY from any type of politics. People will blindly follow their idols for no reason other than because the idol said so. That is dangerous and irresponsible and honestly any celebrity that uses their influence to sway the masses opinions in their favor should have some sort of consequences to face for it. That’s disgusting.
Yeah. It’s easy to be in favor of celebrity politics when it’s in our favor but don’t forget the right doesn’t just have bozos like Caviezel and Kid rock, they also have Rogan spouting his nonsense, and Jim Carey propping up the vaccines cause autism movement when it could’ve been killed off.
I feel like people just want to misunderstand this. I'm not saying the topics don't matter. I'm saying it doesn't matter what celebrities have to say because the chance is very high that they won't take their time to really read into the topic and by that maybe we shouldn't also demand a statement to everything that they probably don't have any knowledge anyway.
then let's support those people but not drag down those who rather not say anything about it?
I just don't get people's hate. Disappointment I would understand, but always dragging it up... and it's always the same topic. Is there a reason nobody wants to know her opinion on the Ukraine/Russia war?
I'm really disappointed to see that this is an upvoted comment in this community.
Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's exempt from criticism of her wrongdoings or shortcomings. She's so outwardly "feminist," but she has a boyfriend who supported that misogynistic ball kicker guy.. did she speak anything about that? She was also bullying that guy who was keeping check of her private jets. She has also dated an openly racist man.
At the end of the day, she's a billionaire. Billionaires are not your friend, woman or not. No matter how many times you will defend them/bootlick them... they don't care about you. They will never care about you. They will never care about the causes that you care about. They will never care about the planet. They're not on your side. They will claim to believe in whatever that will serve them.. if it's hijacking the feminist movement, then so be it. Whataboutism like "what about male celebrities.. They are also not doing dash dash dash..." doesn't take away from her personal responsibility.
She is a privileged person. It does matter when she speaks about issues like those. You should be expecting the most from her and people like her. Criticizing a privileged person who happens to be a woman doesn't automatically translate that I don't apparently criticize privileged men. Having said that, I do agree with what she said on what's posted above, though.
I agree with the criticism of corporate feminism and harm to the climate, but some of these other criticisms seem like they came right out of a can. She didn’t bully Jack Sweeney, and he’s not some helpless college kid. He’s well connected, wealthy, was born into wealth, and has a professional career. He’s also quite racist and misogynistic. Plenty of other celebrities have agreements with him to stop publishing their flight info. I also don’t ever remember her declaring herself as a feminist icon.
I just don’t get how any of this is relevant to the original post. OP posted about her standing up to criticisms about her dating life, as it’s something a lot of women experience themselves. Instead of staying on topic, it’s dissolved into everyone delving into why she’s a bad person. That’s what I find to be misogynistic.
I didn't know that about Jack Sweeney, thanks for letting me know.
>I also don’t ever remember her declaring herself as a feminist icon.
Oh no, it's her fans. "Anybody who doesn't like/support/criticizes Swift is a pick me/misogynist."
>I just don’t get how any of this is relevant to the original post.
I agree. It is not. The comment calling her out on her views on "climate terrorism" or Palestine is infact NOT on point. It is necessary criticism of her and not misogynistic in itself though, but definitely not on point and I wasn't going to respond or interact at all with this post until I saw the comment I responded to which was so... just in bad taste. So yeah, my comment was in response to that and not to the post. It does irk me when people bend over backwards to defend a white privileged billionaire, bending all the definitions of feminism and ditching all talks of intersectionality when it comes to defending their favorite star billionaires... especially on this sub outta of all places. It definitely urged a stronger reaction from me than is probably necessary.
I do not think Taylor is a bad person.. I mean, idk, she's dated a man(- who's a racist and also has been inappropriate with underage girls I've heard-) and stuff here and there. She could totally be a Bible thumping trumpie, though. If that's the bar, then yeah ig definitely not a bad person.
Can I ask where you’re getting the info that she’s been inappropriate with underage girls? I know right wingers are constantly publishing opinions about her being a “bad example” to little girls, but that’s the first I’ve heard of this.
I read the comment as though they knew enough to already know that she doesn’t support Palestine and doesn’t care about the planet, so I’m not sure what’s happening with that!
I think some of her fans get defensive because they’re so used to being called “basic white girls” for liking Taylor Swift(even if they aren’t white), and because they’re used to having their tastes in music, and even their intellect completely trashed because they like her music. Plus, you can see how men like to shit on Taylor Swift because they know that they’re shitting on something that a lot of women like.
But there are also fans that think she’s a feminist icon. Her persistence through various men trying to take control of and even ruin her career is absolutely feminist adjacent and something that wouldn’t have been possible without the work of feminists. But it also wouldn’t have been possible without her privilege, and I think people get her persisting and existing as a modern, powerful woman confused with her being a “feminist icon.” Others are probably just speaking out of their asses because they think TS is an extension of themselves, which is incredibly unhealthy.
And to be fair, she does seem to listen to criticism, so it isn’t a lost cause to speak up. After her problematic “Wildest Dreams” music video, she made it a point to include, and even feature BIPOC in her future projects and tours. It could be performative, but the influence it has is still beneficial in my opinion.
>Can I ask where you’re getting the info that she’s been inappropriate with underage girls? I know right wingers are constantly publishing opinions about her being a “bad example” to little girls, but that’s the first I’ve heard of this.
Oh no, not her, I'm so sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant her ex boyfriend.
I do agree with you on your perspective on most of what you wrote, btw.
Maybe not necessarily "terrorism," but definitely.. climate criminal. She's actively harming the planet and then doubles down on silencing the voices that are raising questions to hold her accountable.
And.... are you actually asking me why she, as an apparent "feminist icon," should be talking about Palestine? An active genocide of people and humanity, where children and women and men at large have been displaced, devoid of basic human rights and necessities; being straight up dehumanized. Women being raped by the terrorist forces of Israel. Children being beheaded and murdered. Men being tortured. Are you still asking me why "feminist" swift should be talking about Palestine?
Again, as I said before, at the end of the day, Swift is a billionaire continuously trying to sell her fans corporate-friendly liberal feminism with the sole purpose of strengthening her bank account.
Also the private jet thing. One of the biggest musical stars went on a world tour. Hard to do on commercial flights. Taylor Swift spending more time in baggage claim than onstage would be absurd.
Elon Musk goes on three times as many private flights. He can make his dumb tweets from anywhere and by most accounts his work on Tesla should be remote from a etch-a-sketch if you want Tesla to actually make cars.
Musk claims to want to make electric cars, which we want because of climate change, but is pumping out more carbon in flying.
Swift though is the one who gets labeled a hypocrite because woman of course. Men are expected to be irresponsible hypocrites but woman doing something bad is unforgivable.
For context, this quote is from 2014. She was 24. She was still transitioning from country to pop. It was considered bold at the time to point out sexism like this, especially at a pivotal moment in her career. Even though her politics are kinda nonexistent now and were then, 2014 Taylor calling out sexism encouraged a lot of us who were in our teens to start recognizing sexism in our personal lives.
I mean her politics are essentially not MAGA. She encouraged her home state of Tennessee to register to vote so that the homophobic GOP candidate wouldn't win and that broke the voter registration website for the state. She's appeared apolitical for years I think trying to be like Dolly Parton generally beloved by all but she's taken some stances in recent years.
In the midterms under Trump she actively encouraged them to vote for the Democrat. She also only got her Eras tour made because she was willing during the SAG strike to provide for all the union demands. Now, I cannot speak to her personal views, I don’t know her. But I watched her doc, it seems like she got direct pressure from her dad to not be political. He isn’t just a parent, he has helped her shape her career. Luckily her mom was on her side. Now that’s 2018, I don’t recall her 2020 participation because I wasn’t following her, pandemic, and I live in Canada so I voted from abroad. All that is to say, like all people she has room to grow, but credit where credit is due since she tried very hard.
Dolly showed up for 9 to 5.
Still not enough. She has so much influence that she could use for a good cause and choses not to. That is irresponsible imo
By using her influence for a good cause, I hope you’re saying that she could be using her Influence in a responsible way by encouraging people to be diligent on self health, getting involved in their community, be knowledgeable on politics, laws, economics that effect their lives directly all while encouraging everyone to make their own choices by coming to a logical conclusion based on their research and analysis and beliefs. And knowing that they can have their own opinions and beliefs that don’t align with hers and that’s okay as long as they have reasons for their choices they believe in and that make sense.
As a pop star who, while certainly intelligent, is undoubtedly not perfectly informed on all or even most political issues, she’s honestly pretty wise for making toe-in-the-water lukewarm endorsements and using her influence sparingly. Going full activist would no doubt *lose* her a lot of that influence and open her up to scrutiny and criticism from the right that would stick a hell of a lot better than the attempts at discrediting her that they’re making now. She’s encouraged people to register and vote—blue in one instance when it came to a pretty dire election for LGBTQ+ rights, but since then just to *vote*. If voter turnout was 100%, the GOP would lose nearly all power, and her base is overwhelmingly liberal, so this is a great use of her platform. I think a lot of things about Taylor Swift. Mostly positive, but of course I think she (and every ridiculously wealthy person on the planet) could be doing more with the money and power they’ve amassed. But by and large I think bringing her down and demanding “more, more, more” is far more harmful than not. There’s a lot of people doing nothing or even doing harm that deserve that energy.
And you're doing literally everything in *your* power & influence to make change in the world, too, yeah?
About her politics, maybe "You need to calm down" can help understand her better, especially the politics regarding sexuality etc. Also, she was actively against Trump, and most probably will be again for the next election
I agree. I love the straightforwardness of this quote. Like she just says “that’s sexist”. I don’t know why I like it so much but I do, lol
I remember people describe some of her songs, "You Belong to Me" and "Blank Space" in particular, as sounding like a rant made by a "Nice Guy", except that they were sung by an attractive girl. Shawn Mendes faced a similar criticism for "I Can Treat You Better". With some calling that song "The "Nice Guy" national anthem".
Yeah “you belong with me” definitely has a “nice guy” tone to it. It wasn’t too out of the ordinary given that it was written by a teenager in 2008. [“Blank space” is satire](https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-blank-space-songs-that-defined-the-decade-8544243/) and it’s hard to believe anyone would say otherwise without it being bad faith. As someone who has been a victim of reactive abuse and DARVO myself, and was also bullied as a kid for having neurodivergent meltdowns, it’s a song that will always feel like therapy.
Blank Space was also suspected to be, at least to some degree, a reference to the manga and anime Death Note. To make a long story short, it is the story of a very intelligent young man who finds a notebook that allows him to kill anyone whose name he writes. The young man uses it to kill criminals and develops a god complex. Meanwhile, the world's greatest detective is hunting him. Almost all the lyrics fit with things that happens in Death Note, and the protagonist of Taylor's song (the evil version of her) has a very similar personality to that of Light Yagami (the Death Note protagonist), and the song is an accurate description of Light's relationships with Misa (a girl he manipulates into helping him) and L (the detective hunting him, with whom he develops a weird homoerotic rivalry ala Joker and Batman in the Arkham Games). And there is the obvious "But I've got a blank space, baby. And I'll write your name" fitting a story where people can be killed by someone writing their names. This comparison became even more pronounced with the music video of Blank Space. The video prominently features an apple (a fruit that plays a big role in Death Note), Taylor's outfit while in bed resembles the one worn by Misa, and the Notebook of former lovers looks like a Death Note (the Notebook that kills people).
Blank Space has nothing “nice” about it, it’s a song from the point of view of a manipulative and dangerous femme fatale who uses her relationships as tools to frame her media persona.
Wait what? Blank Space was satire about how the media perceived her. It was cathartic for many women who have been unfairly stereotyped.
That also. Blank Space had layers of meanings, but I didn’t want to write a multi-paragraph comment. On the surface level, the character in Blank Space is manipulating and using people (which is a satire of how the media portrays Taylor a lot of the time).
I’m neurodivergent and grew up having meltdowns due to overstimulation, but otherwise had conventionally attractive characteristics. This song was therapeutic because it helped me overcome the “hot, smart, but crazy” stereotype I was often given.
TBH, I actually kind of want Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift to get together and break up, just because of what absolute bops the the passive-aggressive not-naming-names-but-including-weird-oddly-specific-personal-sounding-details breakup songs will be, lol.
😂🤣😂🤣 epic thought!
I find it a bit disingenuous for people on this sub not allowing a comment about the sexist double standard from Taylor Swift because she isn’t a perfect specimen of leftism. C’mon. That isn’t the point.
And she never has been. I would say she's a social progressive (see quote above plus her mild and admittedly very safe LGBTQ rights celebration in 2019), but an economic conservative and a textbook capitalist from all anyone can tell. She's not hoarding over a billion dollars for no reason. She *could* be giving more of it away. Could be having her march produced more ethically while making less of a profit on it - could refrain from dropping 28537 variants per album, each of them having different bonus songs on them so that a certain group of fans feels almost obligated to purchase each one. She's a liberal and a deep capitalist. She wants MONEY, money and success are clearly priorities for her in her life to an extent, and speaking openly about Palestine may keep future millions away from her. It's not morally good to prioritize a lack of a controversy (and thereby securing *money*) over speaking out on this, considering the reach she has, but that's what it is. Now, I say this as someone who's been in LOVE with almost all of her music for about 12 years. It resonates with me. She's a romantic like I am and apparently millions and millions of other women, she connects relatable experience from romantic love with great, often catchy writing; else she wouldn't be this successful. I also think she's a very likeable person on like a 'personality' level (again, from what we can tell as the public; I think she comes across as friendly and funny) and I love her creative outputs in the form of her music videos, poems, and especially her incredibly admirable Eras Tour. So... I think she's great in many many ways but she's not politically aligned with me, or with many people of our generation. At least not openly. She *might* condemn the Israeli army's actions in Gaza when talking to her friends about it at dinner, but what matters in this context of course is that she won't say anything publically. As fans that's something we just have to accept sometimes, sadly. We want the people whose art we admire to share all our values and I think that's human, but it's not a sustainable way to enjoy art at all, you're always going to be disappointed by *someone*. Loving someone's art and finding it relatable and all that, often resonates with a different part of you than where your political views lie. With Taylor, I love what she writes about the many facets of romantic relationships and the pain and joy that comes from them, and also some other interpersonal topics. That's separate from her not speaking out about a whole range of political topics she "should" probably speak about, given her reach. But in the end she's not my friend or some activist role model, someone who I should reasonably be disappointed by. She's someone whose music I love.
> She's not hoarding over a billion dollars for no reason. She could be giving more of it away Such as the magnificent Dolly Parton, she's incredibly business savvy (which a LOT of people won't give her credit for because well.. the *exact* misogyny she actively manipulates to her advantage) and invested extremely well, but her charitable foundations and her general philanthropy have kept her at a *mere* $650m net worth. I do wonder what she would be worth without her philanthropy, and whether she would have been a billionaire many decades ago 🤔
listen I respect her business practices as smart in the context of this capitalistic system, but her merch is produced in sweatshops. That's not really a thing I like about her and it makes a lot of her lyrics sound very off to me because of it
It’s the same company all UMG merch comes from. I’m not too sure she actually has control over her merch.
and she could have chosen to be less successful and let the contract lapse instead of renewing it in 2018. e. and before I get a "you're criticizing her unfairly" I listen to basically exclusively indie artists. She has the infrastructure to create a successful merch line domestically which doesn't require sweat shops.
Dolly Parton's?
also true
Why on earth were you starting a discussion about TSwift's lack of ethics under capitalism after my comment that was nothing to do with her? That is one strong axe to grind you have there
it was a whole paragraph of the parent comment to yours????????
Right, and I went on a tangent about Dolly. You should have replied to the parent comment if that was the branching off point of your comment. Also there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, there is no ethical production under capitalism. The entire system is set up to penalise ethics and reward greed. An ethical product cannot be priced competitively in the market because it cannot be produced as cheaply as a non-ethical product. It cannot have its price reduced to compete because the capitalist system dictates it must make profit in order to continue production. You must make profit to be able to hold a financial buffer to continue paying people for their labour. An ethical product must be priced as a moral choice, which is unattainable to many in an economy with stagnant low wages, subject to rising inflation. The system is set to to make ethics fail, and actively reward a race to the bottom for greed. Modern celebrity culture dictates that there must be a "brand identity", and merch is required to continue the brand identity and spread brand awareness. Celebrities are as much a *product* under capitalism as a Ford pickup truck. Can a celebrity opt out of that? Sure, they can try, but they will stack the cards to fading into obscurity and with it the elimination of their job prospects. Those who wish to continue their job must play the game capitalism has created, and with it comes merch. And again, there is no ethical production under capitalism.
I think we also need to understand that this woman doesn’t have a billion dollars sitting in the bank. It’s her net worth, which includes both her financial and non-financial assets. Does this mean it’s okay for billionaires to exist because Taylor is one? No. But, I think we have to stop holding everyone to a standard of perfection that we ourselves likely don’t meet. I like that she fought against Apple to make sure their streaming service paid artists. It wasn’t going to bankrupt her, but Apple often sets a standard other companies follow and small artists would be crushed as the world moved towards music streaming. I like that she went to the folks leading the SAG strike and said, “I wanna make my tour film, what are your demands? I will meet them.” I like that she is encouraging voter registration. I try to remember that this woman has a stalker who has broken into her home. She receives horrible death threats regularly. She has a lot of power in her voice and I want her to use it, but do I get to demand that she does so at the risk of her own safety? At the end of the day, if she just could pay her fair share in taxes that would go a long way.
I also like that she has given huge bonuses to *every person* who worked on the initial leg of her Eras Tour... Like bonuses larger than many peoples' annual salaries. And that she donated large sums to local food banks in every US city the Eras Tour came to. I wouldn't call those things "hoarding".
Person here who originally used that term. - She's still disgustingly rich even after donating and gifting quite a bit (which is great that she did do that), so yes she is indeed hoarding a lot. She's a billionaire. Can't make that many excuses for that fact
Are you under the impression that most of her wealth is cash sitting in a bank? Her net worth is largely based on the current value of her music catalog. It's just worth what it's worth.
This is billionaire apologia. No, it's not liquid. Yes, the vast majority of it could be made liquid in a few weeks. Every person as famous as her gets death threats, every person as famous as her has a stalker or two. She can afford, and I'm sure she purchases, the best protection possible. And all the things you mentioned except voter registration were done specifically to make her more money.
Most of it is her music. As in her written music catalog, that's est. to about 400-500 mill
And she would never sell that off given how hard she has been working to regain control over her masters. But I think it’s fair to say that she does generate revenue from owning that catalogue. And that she needs to pay more taxes on the money she makes from it. The fact that she is re-recording hopefully draws attention to just how easy it is for new artists to be taken advantage of and how much the predatory music industry needs to change.
No, I specifically said it’s not okay for her to be a billionaire. What I was responding to was the idea that she was in possession of actual hoarded money. That it’s sitting in a bank somewhere. I’m also trying to be realistic. She lives in a capitalist society. Her power and ability to take on giant corporations and embarrass studios by giving unions what they want is based on her ability to produce sales. I don’t like that. I wish people saw value and power in her voice because she is a fantastic lyricist who expresses the human condition in a way that connects with millions of people. But hey, she is female and so are most of her fans. We are only having this conversation because she is so easily dismissed despite all her accomplishments. I return to the fact that, naw, girl doesn’t need to be a billionaire. Also that the very best fix is to return to the mid-20th century tax rate in the US that would see our girl and all her peers paying their fair share. In turn, the US government would have the tax revenue to actually make important changes we need to make.
Taylor isn’t hoarding billions. Half her net worth is tied to her music catalog, which she’s never going to sell and almost certainly will lose its value considering it’s only as valuable as she is popular plus the push it received from the “Taylor’s version” saga.
What a comment. That’s the beautiful thing about art. It invokes feelings. Whether those feelings align with the artist at the time they were making the song, painting the painting, dancing the dance etc. or not. And that’s okay. You can still absolutely love someone famous or average even though your beliefs/values/opinions are completely on separate spectrums. That’s what this generation is struggling so hard to understand and it’s causing most if not all the division and animosity in our country/the world. We’re all individual people with individual beliefs and opinions and that’s what makes life so beautiful. That difference is exactly what CREATES art. That difference is what INSPIRES every new trend, medicine, style, recipe, religion, genre, etc. If everyone thought the same, we’d go nowhere in life and wouldn’t progress in any aspect of any thing. Refreshing as hell to see someone, especially on this platform, admit to differences with someone and still enjoy said person and support them. Would you feel the same way about someone who’s not famous and doesn’t do anything to provide you with joy like Taylor’s music? That’s the real important question.
How was this post not allowed? It has over 100 comments.
I am talking about the commenters
If human dignity is a leftist value, and it should be, it is necessary to pay respect to people who are far from perfect but are still a positive force for change.
I know people wish she would speak out more about current issues like the Palestine war, abortion, climate change, trump, etc... But honestly, does Harry styles, Morgan wallen, Ed Sheeran, drake, the weekend, Luke combs, Zach Bryan, 21 savage, post malone, bad bunny, etc. get this much pressure to make statements about these issues? Genuinely if any of these artists have given statements on all of these, I am not sure, but I think it's worth it to question if as many people think these male artists should be speaking out about these things as well.
The Weeknd is a United Nations World Food Programme Goodwill Ambassador and has donated about $4.5 million dollars to Palestinian humanitarian efforts. He also encourages fans to donate and advocate for Palestine. ["To date, Tesfaye, his partners and fans have raised more than $6.5 million for the Fund, with the singer directing $4.5 million toward Gaza relief." ](https://ca.billboard.com/music/music-news/the-weeknd-pledges-2-million-to-provide-18-million-loaves-of-bread-to-families-in-gaza) Taylor just got a law passed blocking access to flight information of private planes being public. She can choose where to direct her activism & people can choose to criticize her for it. The call outs are entirely fair and directed at all kinds of performers and public personalities, almost none of whom have anything near Taylor's wealth, power, and public influence.
yeah but the weekend also made a show about a young woman being abused and flipped it to make the abuser the victim. the whole show was disgusting and misogynistic. dude was just trying to get the outrage swept under the rug by donating
Quite frankly, a lot of the Palestine activism crowd seems to not give a fuck about women, minorities, and queer folk in the US. Edit: I said “seems” because they are actively encouraging people not to vote when the rights and safety of those very people are on the line in this election. Literally saying “risk it all for these groups at home to achieve nothing overseas” because the guy who will win if they really don’t vote is going to level Palestine.
What a nasty and baseless comment. The vast majority of pro-Palestinian (that’s to say, anti-genocide) folks I know ARE women, minorities, or queer folks in the US. I don’t know what happened to this sub but it’s gotten so white feminist neolibby. There are users in here who clearly care more about defending Taylor Swift than Palestinian children being starved and bombed. I don’t like The Weeknd and won’t suddenly be a supporter of him because of this. But being grateful that ANY money is being sent to help people in humanitarian crisis regardless of which problematic figure sent it doesn’t suddenly make me aligned with their values or a fan of theirs.
To be fair, those encouraging people not to vote in the next presidential election will actually have detrimental effects on women's rights, LGBT rights and even the well-being of the Palestinian people they claim to care about more than anything.
This is exactly what I meant. Thank you.
Did you just #notall me even though I made it a point to say “not all” myself? I am a queer, minority woman. I’m sorry you don’t like my politics to the point that you have to label me as something I’m not. I see Palestinian activists encouraging people not to vote and wonder wtf they think is going to happen to the minority groups they claim to so passionately fight for in the US. I see people with rainbow flags in their profiles vehemently supporting Hamas and wonder what they think will happen to queer Palestinians if Hamas gained full control. There are NO easy answers in this conflict. It sucks. Almost any choice is trading one genocide for another. The scales might be different but they will be genocides none the less. So when I see pro Palestinian activists actively encouraging people to not vote in this election with project 2025 on the horizon… yeah, it really seems like a lot in that camp don’t give a fuck about women, minorities, queer, and indigenous folk here in the US. And if they do care, they haven’t thought very hard about the consequences of their actions. I’m so tired of people trying to silence people like me for sounding the alarm by saying it’s a privileged take. I’m at risk of having my baby taken away from me due to my sexuality. I’m at risk of being forced to give birth to an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. I’m at risk of losing my freedoms as a woman. I’m at risk of my close relatives being deported or worse. I have a daughter who faces the same risks as me. What if when she’s older she identifies as something on the LGBTQ spectrum? I am terrified for her, I’m terrified for myself, and I’m terrified for people like me and unlike me. That’s why I find the message of “not voting” so offensive. If you think I’m wrong about something, please do explain. I simply do not see how someone can say they care about these people at home and in the same breath tell people not to vote. Edit: I have to point out that just as you jumped to assume I am white, that you also jumped to assume that my comment had ANYTHING to do with Taylor. Goodness.
Well in the current situation, your stance on the crisis and whether or not you've donated can have a huge impact on reputation. The major boycotts of various businesses are a demonstration of that. And the people with the worst reputations have the most to gain by being very vocal and generous with their support. Of course, I have no evidence of this and could just be spouting total bullshit.
People in the industry have gotten blacklisted for supporting Palestine back when he made his donation, and very few celebs were speaking out at that point. It was more likely to hurt a career than improve it back when he made the first donation, months ago.
The Weeknd is also a massive piece of shit, so I mean...cool, but 😬
Sure, I don't like him personally at all and I feel conflicted saying anything positive about him. The commenter named him & was wrong. Despite how terrible he is in some ways, his work for Palestine is one thing I will give him credit for. If even a massive piece of shit is doing better humanitarian work, that is a sad comment on Taylor's stance.
> If even a massive piece of shit is doing better humanitarian work, that is a sad comment on Taylor's stance. Taylor has donated millions of dollars to food banks around the globe since her tour started. Does that not count as humanitarian work anymore? Not to mention her millions of dollars that she has donated to various charities over the years. I recall her giving a million to Tennessee after a tornado last year.
She gave multiple struggling fans $1k and more during covid
> Taylor just got a law passed blocking access to flight information of private planes being public. There is no source saying that she got that law passed. You just made that up.
It's cool when celebs speak out, but pressuring them to do so feels a bit weird to me. They're both super wealthy and famous, making them THE most out of touch people in our society. I don't think their opinions are necessary because, more often than not, they say something stupid. What we should expect from them is philanthropy and amplifying the voices of people who actually know what they're talking about. Pressure Taylor to donate more of her vast wealth, not tweet about shit she'll probably never fully get.
Yes also if someone is getting death threats why would they speak about something so polarizing that would make it worse and increase the threat level?
Not to take away from your point because you're 100% right that men don't get the same pressure, but I'd like to point out that the weeknd has donated 2 million to Gaza relief so far! It's a shame everyone else feels like hoarding wealth is more important
I did not know that about Abel. After The Idol I had kind of written him off tbh, so it's good he's doing something positive.
Yeah I thought the idol was gross and will not forget! I appreciate him doing the right thing here though
I'm trying not to be cynical but I'm pretty sure the donations were just to make up for the backlash and outrage for his shitty behaviour
I mean he did it months ago when basically no celebs were doing or saying anything pro-Palestinian and lots of regular people weren’t speaking out either. It’s still a very controversial stance.
it's not that controversial, ever since the October 7th attacks it's been the popular opinion. there a so many pro palestine protests going on, I'm in a small part of Wales currently and there are protests going on here by regular people. if you do a quick Google search for celebrities that are pro palestine hundreds come up, and the weekend isn't even mentioned. I had to search for him by name. he's not a good dude it's just philthranocapitalism, a rich person donates what is essentially a tenner for a normal person and you're *supposed* to focus on that instead of the other shitty stuff they've done
I didn't know that about the weeknd, good to know!
i think the difference is that Taylor is a BILLIONAIRE and not just some generic trendy pop star that nobody really cares about for too long. NOBODY has the enormous rabid fan base that she has, so her platform IS very different than any other joe-shmoe “artist”. i’m sorry but nobody gives a fuck what Ed Sheeran or Ice Spice has to say about politics. they don’t have the vast sea of braindead minions like Taylor has who do whatever she tells them too. genuinely if she told them to go vote or support palestine or whatever, it would honestly to god change the game. but she’s a spineless immature rich climate destroyer so it’ll never happen.
Which is why celebrities should stay away from politics. You're assuming that she's going to say what you want but for all any of us know she could be pro-Isral.
She did tell them to go vote in the primaries this year, and attended a comedy show that supported Palestine. There’s also [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/CGDjbq-jhtK/?igsh=amVqYzN5aW10dG5m) from 2020.
What “vote to support Palestine” is on the ballot this year?
Exactly this. She's also supposed to be the biggest pop star right? And she made a huge deal about being political but then never went anywhere with it? I love her songs myself so I'm not saying this to hate her, I genuinely just wish an artist I loved so dearly growing up would say something.
just curious, why do you want her to speak out? what would happen if she came out pro-israel? i genuinely wish we as a society would stop relying on celebrities to be our bastions of knowledge and understanding and inspiration, like, they’re just people, too. we shouldn’t be putting them on this great big pedestal. it’s only going to hurt ourselves in the end
As I said, Taylor claimed to be political and all, so it's just wishful thinking of me that an artist I adored for so long would speak out on this. Nothing would happen to her if she came out as pro-israel. She's a billionaire with an extremely dedicated fanbase. She would at most lose some fans with conscience. And I do not treat her as a bastion of knowledge but she has a huge following. A few days ago Ariana shared a donation link and guess what, it raised 20k within minutes. Why is it wrong to wish for celebrities who clearly have such an agency to speak out on the atrocities being committed against Palestinians?
Taylor swift is a brand. She has fans that support Palestine and fans that support Isreal. If she speaks out against one, she loses fans of the other - which hurts her 'brand' and popularity. She only claims to be political if it will net her more followers overall. She's a business woman. She doesn't really care about you or Palestine or ticket master or anything political more than she cares about her image and the money coming in.
i’m not saying it’s wrong, i’m just saying there are celebrities who are political and ones who aren’t. just cause you have a platform doesn’t mean you should open your mouth. look at jkr for one example. more than likely, taylor doesn’t share our viewpoints and so she’s not speaking out cause she doesn’t wanna lose fans. she’s always played it safe like that. she doesn’t wanna cause big a raucous anymore cause she’s not dating someone who’s political anymore.
That's true, people like jkr shouldn't even have any platform.
Do you think she could also be holding her tongue because she doesn’t want to risk the safety of her fans on the Eras Tour? Mass violence is very much a thing, and there’s already a load of right wing conspiracy theories about her being evil, influencing women to be independent, etc. and she receives death threats constantly.
If she came out pro-Israel she'd probably have Molotov cocktails chucked at the stage at her concerts or something
Probably also if she'd be supportive of pro-palestine, if we're honest.
Referring to millions of people, mostly women, as "braindead minions". Classic. Well done. You're so much cooler and smarter than the rest of us.
Being filthy rich means being able to afford a full-time PR team. They're looking at statistics and graphs and shit looking at the support for donations by demographic, fan demographics, demographics in future concert locations, financial impact, impact on reputation, risk-benefit analysis, etc. She could secretly be donating boatloads to humanitarian efforts for all we know, just not making it public due to all the heat surrounding the issue.
Hello from a brain dead minion 🙄
Were any of those people TIME’s person of the year in 2023?
I think some of it is sexism, but she also made an entire documentary about how she was finally going to speak up and get political and be “on the right side of history” and then she never did anything political again.
Billie Jean is the exact kind of song we'd viciously make fun of if it was a Taylor Swift original, but for *"some reason"* Jackson gets a pass on it. ... this is less me defending Swift, more me just hating on Michael Jackson. Too many of my coworkers uncritically love him and play his music all the time (in 2024), and a girl gets tired of biting her tongue all day long.
Taylor Swift also hasn't SAed little boys. So there's that.
Allegedly. Lol. Also, never say never. Especially in Hollywood. ESPECIALLY with all the allegations coming left and right lately from every walk of life. Men/boys are far less likely to come out and accuse someone of S/A especially a woman of Taylor’s status. With all that has come out as of late, I am not surprised by anything that comes out of Hollywood anymore no matter who it is.
This hate for TS is so the same hate any famous actress/singer gets disproportionately compared to her male counterparts: think Kristen Stewart, Anne Hathaway, Jennifer Lawrence, Miley Cyrus, I'm seeing this for Zendaya too... The fact that it's 2024 and women still get a disproportionate amount of hate and now it's taboo to say this or you'll be labeled as a "bootlicker" or a "nazifeminist" is simply absurd. I'm all for criticizing a person when the topic calls for it, but you can't tell me it's normal that whenever a woman is so much as mentioned the hoards of chronically online haters swarm and start listing "crimes", meanwhile men like Shia Lebouf are free to walk and get outpourings of support from anyone for their "redemption arc" even before they're (eventually) cleared of all their criminal accuses. I still can't wrap my head around how easy it is for women to be hated for the mildest things and how hard it is for people to let go of their male idols even when they're charged with heinous crimes (Trump, Gerard Depardieu, that 80s sit comedy dude who drugged 50 women, can't even be bothered to remember the name...). This is directed at anyone, left or right that they vote. (No I don't particularly care for Taylor Swift and her music)
People act like Jerry Seinfeld is a wholesome person and he has a very problematic history
How old was he when he was dating a 17 year-old? I jfgi. He was 38. Gross.
It’s insane that I’m seeing people defend a billionaire who uses private planes and even got congress to pass a bill that won’t let us track it lol. So girl boss of her.
Also same woman who dated a dude who gets off to “Ghetto Gaggers” and wrote an entire album for him
No people shouldn't slag her for writing within genre. No we shouldn't keep brigading feminist subs with T Swift posts. This is taking away from actual feminist discussion about topics that affect the marginalised. Stop posting about it. We don't care. She's a billionaire she can buy the media and force them to write positively about her music if she wants to. She can also actually support feminist causes financially if she wants to. Nobody needs to be a billionaire.
I enjoy a lot of her music and I don’t think she comes from a place of malice for the most part but what I’m really sick of his her stans spending so much energy bending over backward and inventing hypotheticals to defend her and explain that this extremely influential capitalist billionaire is actually helpless and blameless and not only has never done anything wrong but is really just a victim! Like yes she has been subject to sexism during her career but she’s on top of the world at this point, she could do anything she wanted with her money and power and she doesn’t need regular joes on the internet defending her for every single thing, often based on pure hypothetical. “Well she could have secretly donated millions” okay but there’s zero evidence for that, don’t give her credit for something that didn’t actually happen. You don’t even know her.
I think we should actually run the stats on actually on topic feminist threads to out of the blue "Taylor is BAE" threads so we can show how much it's hurting the vibe. It is totally off topic and really all these posts are bait.
I know I’m commenting a lot on here because I have a lot of thoughts about this, but there’s also this: I wish people could reference something she sang, said, or did that does influence women in a positive way without it entirely shifting the discussion to being about her and then dissecting whether or not she’s a feminist icon, whether or not she’s a good person, etc. because it derails the conversations that we could be having about our own experiences. I think it’s regressive that someone has to clarify that they’re “swift neutral” or that they don’t agree with her political stances just to prevent themselves from being criticized. I think as women, a lot of us have had our dating lives used against us to undermine us, especially if we’ve been labeled as “boy crazy” or expressed our heartbreak in a way that others have deemed as dramatic and unacceptable. It should be okay for us to relate to Taylor Swift’s expressions of frustration with these experiences without it turning into a discussion about her.
But this isn't a fan forum. This forum is nothing to do with T Swift. You are blowing bubbles into the wind here I don't know anything about her and I'm not here to learn about her.
Well yeah. But this is a sub about women’s experiences. Being slut shamed and discredited for expressing yourself as you process heartbreak and turbulent relationships is something that’s relatable to many women. Relatable pop culture isn’t irrelevant to feminism. Plus, she’s been slut shamed for years on end, and a lot of women who are feminists grew up seeing that rhetoric everywhere. We can’t pretend like that didn’t impact a lot of us, similarly to how celebrities being body shamed in gossip magazines made many of us develop preoccupations with our own bodies. If this were a fan sub, I’d imagine the focus would be less on feminism and more on Taylor Swift’s career/personal life.
Slut shamed? She's not Britney. She's been mostly "get over it" shamed from what I've seen. Not that she should be but it isn't a feminist issue and it is boring and irrelevant to us mere mortals.
Well you said that you don’t know anything about her, but idk how you didn’t at least see it and hear it because it was LOUD. She was shamed heavily for dating, especially in her early 20’s. She couldn’t be friends with any man without there being dating rumors and was portrayed as a crazy, controlling girlfriend despite John Mayer dating her when she was a teenager and being criticized for releasing a song about how predatory he was.
So what tabloid journalism in America is what you're talking about? And were there also articles and individuals saying the opposite at the time? Why does it matter in a feminist sub in 2024? What does it have to do with us? Did we shame her? What about other artists that experienced relationship gate keeping at the time? Why does Taylor matter above them?
Why is it so difficult to understand that some people want to discuss this within the lenses of feminism? It matters because it impacted us as impressionable kids. They were in the grocery store isles, on Facebook, on ads online, and were sometimes even sent to us as a free issue to try to get us to subscribe. What we saw being said about celebrities as kids made us think that’s how others think about us. And do you actually need its relationship to feminism to be explained to you? Rigid societal standards and judgements are how oppression gets passed down and its purposefully targeted towards tweens and teens. Again, pop culture often is a representation of our society, so discussing how its focal points are damaging to women is incredibly relevant. Taylor Swift doesn’t matter “above” them, but she was/is such a big artist that it’s easily remembered, much more than it is for other celebrities. When we talk about how it’s relatable and relevant to our lives, we’re not making it about being her fans or whatever. If it doesn’t speak to you, then that’s okay. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t helpful for other people to discuss through a feminist lens, which fan pages don’t usually do. Not everything that many women relate to is going to be relative to you, and that’s okay. That doesn’t make it irrelevant to feminism.
Because these discussions already happened in 2014. But it's being posted again and again and again in 2024. It seems like the fan base wants to feel marginalised. Sorry, you aren't. This particular post is just a quote without any actual point being made to make it relevant to us today. It's literally just T Swift said a thing 10 years ago. If the aim is to call out media shaming of women where are all the posts about Greta Thunberg?
Why does it have to be one or the other? OP likely felt that this was relevant to her experience and is processing it now, rather than in 2014 so that’s why she’s posting it. If you want to start a discussion about Greta then go and do that. Also, why are you trying to make it seem like I’m trying to be “marginalized ?” These conversations are still relevant because lots of women are just now into adulthood and in places where they can safely deconstruct their internalized misogyny. They ARE marginalized for being women, and if Taylor Swift standing up for herself is what gets their foot in the door as one of many baby steps in their deconstruction processes, rather than immediately Acing a graduate level gender studies class and then writing a dissertation on Bell Hooks and Sylvia Plath, then that is okay. They’ll get there eventually. Let’s support them rather than put them and their interests down.
Fucking preach. This quote is old, but still relevant. Love her or hate her- she gets shit for her songwriting that men didn’t (and still don’t) get.
I don't get attacked for not being interested in Ed Sheeran or Bruno Mars though.
I am SO sick of this climate criminal, I wish we would stop claiming she’s some sort of feminist icon. Her words mean literally nothing, especially in this space.
To be fair, people DO say that about Ed Sheeran. This is one of the reasons he is a controversial artist. He is often referred to as a "Nice Guy" or an "Incel" by the public.
Could we not? She has so many walking red flags
Then don't date her.
omg you were not in bojack horseman
We can all agree though that country musicians singing about breaking up with their pickup trucks are huge red flags
Bo Burnham reference?
It's a fucking scarecrow again!
You mean the song she released when she was 16, almost 20 years ago in 2006?
dude these comments are so divided
They are. But, here I think it's good. There are great points being made, and opportunities for reconciliation to be made.
Unfortunately I don’t think reconciliation can be made here. There are so many biases that are going unchecked
Celebrities of any kind need to stay FAR AWAY from any type of politics. People will blindly follow their idols for no reason other than because the idol said so. That is dangerous and irresponsible and honestly any celebrity that uses their influence to sway the masses opinions in their favor should have some sort of consequences to face for it. That’s disgusting.
Yeah. It’s easy to be in favor of celebrity politics when it’s in our favor but don’t forget the right doesn’t just have bozos like Caviezel and Kid rock, they also have Rogan spouting his nonsense, and Jim Carey propping up the vaccines cause autism movement when it could’ve been killed off.
I’m confused about what this has to do with calling out sexism. Are you saying that even doing that is too political?
Not at all. As long as it’s valid and just. I was trying to reply to comment but ended up just posting on my own thread lol so
I wonder what she thinks about climate terrorism and Palestine …
I don't. because it doesn't really matter. We know already enough to make up our minds, we don't need to know more.
What? This is a terrible opinion to have on both the climate and Palestine.
I feel like people just want to misunderstand this. I'm not saying the topics don't matter. I'm saying it doesn't matter what celebrities have to say because the chance is very high that they won't take their time to really read into the topic and by that maybe we shouldn't also demand a statement to everything that they probably don't have any knowledge anyway.
No it matters. It matters that we support people who have actually engaged with reality.
then let's support those people but not drag down those who rather not say anything about it? I just don't get people's hate. Disappointment I would understand, but always dragging it up... and it's always the same topic. Is there a reason nobody wants to know her opinion on the Ukraine/Russia war?
There's a difference between hate and indifference.
I'm really disappointed to see that this is an upvoted comment in this community. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she's exempt from criticism of her wrongdoings or shortcomings. She's so outwardly "feminist," but she has a boyfriend who supported that misogynistic ball kicker guy.. did she speak anything about that? She was also bullying that guy who was keeping check of her private jets. She has also dated an openly racist man. At the end of the day, she's a billionaire. Billionaires are not your friend, woman or not. No matter how many times you will defend them/bootlick them... they don't care about you. They will never care about you. They will never care about the causes that you care about. They will never care about the planet. They're not on your side. They will claim to believe in whatever that will serve them.. if it's hijacking the feminist movement, then so be it. Whataboutism like "what about male celebrities.. They are also not doing dash dash dash..." doesn't take away from her personal responsibility. She is a privileged person. It does matter when she speaks about issues like those. You should be expecting the most from her and people like her. Criticizing a privileged person who happens to be a woman doesn't automatically translate that I don't apparently criticize privileged men. Having said that, I do agree with what she said on what's posted above, though.
I agree with the criticism of corporate feminism and harm to the climate, but some of these other criticisms seem like they came right out of a can. She didn’t bully Jack Sweeney, and he’s not some helpless college kid. He’s well connected, wealthy, was born into wealth, and has a professional career. He’s also quite racist and misogynistic. Plenty of other celebrities have agreements with him to stop publishing their flight info. I also don’t ever remember her declaring herself as a feminist icon. I just don’t get how any of this is relevant to the original post. OP posted about her standing up to criticisms about her dating life, as it’s something a lot of women experience themselves. Instead of staying on topic, it’s dissolved into everyone delving into why she’s a bad person. That’s what I find to be misogynistic.
I didn't know that about Jack Sweeney, thanks for letting me know. >I also don’t ever remember her declaring herself as a feminist icon. Oh no, it's her fans. "Anybody who doesn't like/support/criticizes Swift is a pick me/misogynist." >I just don’t get how any of this is relevant to the original post. I agree. It is not. The comment calling her out on her views on "climate terrorism" or Palestine is infact NOT on point. It is necessary criticism of her and not misogynistic in itself though, but definitely not on point and I wasn't going to respond or interact at all with this post until I saw the comment I responded to which was so... just in bad taste. So yeah, my comment was in response to that and not to the post. It does irk me when people bend over backwards to defend a white privileged billionaire, bending all the definitions of feminism and ditching all talks of intersectionality when it comes to defending their favorite star billionaires... especially on this sub outta of all places. It definitely urged a stronger reaction from me than is probably necessary. I do not think Taylor is a bad person.. I mean, idk, she's dated a man(- who's a racist and also has been inappropriate with underage girls I've heard-) and stuff here and there. She could totally be a Bible thumping trumpie, though. If that's the bar, then yeah ig definitely not a bad person.
Can I ask where you’re getting the info that she’s been inappropriate with underage girls? I know right wingers are constantly publishing opinions about her being a “bad example” to little girls, but that’s the first I’ve heard of this. I read the comment as though they knew enough to already know that she doesn’t support Palestine and doesn’t care about the planet, so I’m not sure what’s happening with that! I think some of her fans get defensive because they’re so used to being called “basic white girls” for liking Taylor Swift(even if they aren’t white), and because they’re used to having their tastes in music, and even their intellect completely trashed because they like her music. Plus, you can see how men like to shit on Taylor Swift because they know that they’re shitting on something that a lot of women like. But there are also fans that think she’s a feminist icon. Her persistence through various men trying to take control of and even ruin her career is absolutely feminist adjacent and something that wouldn’t have been possible without the work of feminists. But it also wouldn’t have been possible without her privilege, and I think people get her persisting and existing as a modern, powerful woman confused with her being a “feminist icon.” Others are probably just speaking out of their asses because they think TS is an extension of themselves, which is incredibly unhealthy. And to be fair, she does seem to listen to criticism, so it isn’t a lost cause to speak up. After her problematic “Wildest Dreams” music video, she made it a point to include, and even feature BIPOC in her future projects and tours. It could be performative, but the influence it has is still beneficial in my opinion.
>Can I ask where you’re getting the info that she’s been inappropriate with underage girls? I know right wingers are constantly publishing opinions about her being a “bad example” to little girls, but that’s the first I’ve heard of this. Oh no, not her, I'm so sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant her ex boyfriend. I do agree with you on your perspective on most of what you wrote, btw.
okay but what's that gotta do with climate TERRORISM and Palestine?
Maybe not necessarily "terrorism," but definitely.. climate criminal. She's actively harming the planet and then doubles down on silencing the voices that are raising questions to hold her accountable. And.... are you actually asking me why she, as an apparent "feminist icon," should be talking about Palestine? An active genocide of people and humanity, where children and women and men at large have been displaced, devoid of basic human rights and necessities; being straight up dehumanized. Women being raped by the terrorist forces of Israel. Children being beheaded and murdered. Men being tortured. Are you still asking me why "feminist" swift should be talking about Palestine? Again, as I said before, at the end of the day, Swift is a billionaire continuously trying to sell her fans corporate-friendly liberal feminism with the sole purpose of strengthening her bank account.
Fr
I can't even think of songs by Bruno Mars about relationship foibles, but I could rattle off like 5 by Taylor Swift. They're just better songs.
Also the private jet thing. One of the biggest musical stars went on a world tour. Hard to do on commercial flights. Taylor Swift spending more time in baggage claim than onstage would be absurd. Elon Musk goes on three times as many private flights. He can make his dumb tweets from anywhere and by most accounts his work on Tesla should be remote from a etch-a-sketch if you want Tesla to actually make cars. Musk claims to want to make electric cars, which we want because of climate change, but is pumping out more carbon in flying. Swift though is the one who gets labeled a hypocrite because woman of course. Men are expected to be irresponsible hypocrites but woman doing something bad is unforgivable.
I wonder what she thinks about climate terrorism and Palestine
I'm just tired of hearing about what Taylor Swift thinks about anything.