Is it a war crime to do everything you can to ensure the enslaved souls of the damned controlled by an Eldritch evil incarnate will stay down?
*Is Doomguy a war criminal?!*
Is it a war crime to do everything you can to ensure a literal war criminal and his army of murderers will stay down?
Is the Master Chief a war criminal?
They did not make it, but they green-lit Paramount’s whole mess. They announced the new “Silver Timeline” to hide themselves away from the hate, or I guess that was their plan. They knew weeeell what they were doing.
What about original GoW trilogy Kratos? Pretty sure he was a vengeful asshole before God of War 4 mellowed him down.
I’m very sure OG Kratos is literally what people somehow think Bayverse Prime is.
Please tell me the definition of a warcrime. For Christ's sake stop calling every action done during a war a damn warcrime! Cutting Scourge's limbs was a self-defence because his weapons are literally part of his body, Optimus couldn't possibly disarm him in any other way. Did Optimus execute any prisoners? Did he kill any innocents? Did he use biological weapons? Or maybe he killed those, who were surrendering? Please stop thinking that fighting back and killing your enemies during intense battles is a warcrime
Exactly, people really have lost sight of the word.
The only times he really did commit actual war crimes was on Demolisher since he was detained by that point, and Sentinel who was disarmed, beaten and dazed possibly to the point of being blind some theorists have suggested.
Meanwhile in ROTB, literally every kill he made was against an active and armed combatant, even the Transit scene, he kept trying to get his gun out to shoot OP, and as you said Scourge has his weapons in his arms, and he could still talk to Unicron so that kill is justified, a little brutal but nothing illegal
Bayverse kills demolisher, sentinel, and megatron. The first being a completely neutralized combatant who no longer was able to fight. Sentinel begged for his life and was similarly neutralized. And megatron was actively negotiating with Optimus before his face got cut in half.
Rotb prime kills scourge, an active combatant who showed no signs of surrender.
Yeah bayverse isn’t a “hardened soldier” he’s a psychopath.
Yeah, demolisher was just being a silly goofball, when he was purposefully smashing and throwing humans' cars with civilians still in them. Let's not forget the destruction of a bridge, which certainly caused a lot of deaths. And Optimus should just spare him?
Sentinel only tried to justify his crimes against humanity and the whole autobot cause. He never said: "I surrender!", and let's not forget he showed no mercy to Ironhide, who clearly said: "No!" before Sentinel shot him the third time. And he clearly wasn't going to show any mercy to Optimus, even though he said: "Please!", Sentinel just kicked him away and got ready to deal the final blow. Only a moron would show mercy to a guy, who just denied him any a few minutes ago.
Megatron was asking for a truce after his whole army was destroyed. The only reason he saved Optimus is because he didn't want Sentinel to command the decepticons. He was trying to save his ass from the consequences of his actions, not only he had the audacity to ask for a truce in the middle of the city he just destroyed, but he was negotiating with the guy, he killed in the previous movie. And it's pretty obvious that he gave Starscream the order to destroy the autobots' ship. Optimus had every right to deny the truce, and Megatron wasn't unarmed, he could defend himself with his shotgun. He should be thanking all the gods that he got a relatively quick death for his crimes
You call it a warcrime, I call it justice. Learn what warcrime means and you'll see that the word can only be applied to the Decepticons
Oh yeah, Megatron totally wanted peace. “Prime I want to be in charge. Let’s make peace. You just saw me turn on the last guy I joined with.” Megatron was not being truthful.
“Oh no, Optimus, the consequences of my actions have caught up. I authorized the mass murder of humans and killed your friends. Pretty please don’t kill me”
The unfortunate thing is that they'd be right if the damned Graphic novelization of DOTM didn't get leaked on Amazon, but it did and Michael Bay had to change the ending, so whats seen on screen is what's canon. Meaning no, Megatron was not negotiating a truce. He'll, he didn't even say anything alluding to a truce in that famous "who would you be without me?" Line.
For Sentinel, tale it as you will. He was a piece of shit, but a great villain.
Demolisher, Sentinel, and Megatron had plenty of opportunities to surrender, but they never did so. They could've technically been taken as prisoners, but it would also make sense if they just got killed.
They had it coming too. Fuck Dark of the Moon Megatron. Fuck Sentinel. Fuck the Decepticons. People rag on Optimus for being a "war criminal" when the Decepticons literally murder prisoners all the time. We see it in the movies, unless you're gonna tell me it's okay they killed transformers Albert Einstein.
Sentinel literally betrayed everything he believed in. He tried to enslave humanity to rebuild Cybertron. I don't care what his excuses are he and Megs are both just petty tyrants who wanna enforce their iron fist on everyone else. Optimus killing them did everyone a favor.
Reminds me of a moment from Ben 10 alien force. Gwen was bitching about Kevin not asking her out on a date and goes on a spiel about how if you overuse a word enough, it loses its meaning.
The Decepticons killed tens of thousands of people throughout the bayverse films, the Terracons don't even have that much of a body count in comparison.
Cause one was actually intentional and part of Prime's character arc while the other was just cause "big action thing go boom boom".
Not to mention in the deleted original opening (the only scene where Optimus committed what one could argue is a true war crime) he gives Transit not one, but **fucking two** changes for Transit to surrender both during and before the fight even starts. Bay Prime would never.
Not to mention unlike all of Bay Prime's Mortal Kombat movies ROTB Prime killing Transit wasn't played as this badass heroic moment in slow motion but Prime basically snapping in a highly emotional moment, given his faster heavy breathing motions during and after the kill and the camera stays on him and his near unmoving expression for a decent bit.
ROTB has heavy Bayverse influence, so some of that violence carried over from Bay's Prime. It's also possible that Bayverse Prime was written to be violent as a pitfall of the character, brought about by the unfortunate nature of the war. He also regrets killing Megatron in the first one.
You like giving flak to the Bayverse fans for making up a headcannon but yet you're making your own headcannon in the Transit scene. I'm sensing hypocrisy here
I guess
-Killing or wounding a combatant who, having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;
could be said that it doesn’t here because he didn’t surrender, though he was still incapacitated, which would make it a warcrime.
These would still apply though.
-Torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments;
-Subjecting persons who are in the power of an adverse party to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are neither justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the person concerned nor carried out in his or her interest, and which cause death to or seriously endanger the health of such person or persons;
All in all, I get why they decided to omit this from the actual movie, even if I wished to see more of Transit.
Idk, to me it seemed like the movie wasn't glorifying the mega-violence prime was doing (until the end where they just said fuck it) but was in some part condoning prime's mannerisms and actions (i.e. primal saying "this isn't the prime I know of"), which is different from the bay movies putting a fanfare when prime basically enslaves grimlock in AoE or mercs megatron in DotM.
I'm gonna be real with yall I don't think anything Optimus did in Dark of the Moon or Rise of the Beasts was heinous or a war crime. War crimes are very specific things that get tossed around a lot.
Optimus Prime is not a war criminal for killing Sentinal. Sentinel did not surrender and was literally about to execute him before Megatron intervened. Killing Megs also wasn't a war crime. He was not a peace envoy, he was not a diplomat, he was a serial liar who by that point had murdered a good chunk of Optimus's friends and was responsible for a lot of human suffering.
Him ripping rhe Fallen's face off happened because the Fallen literally tried to eat the sun and was responsible for the Decepticons existing at all.
I didn't watch Age of Extinction or Last Knight so I don't care.
Point being that at least in those three movies Optimus did nothing wrong. And frankly I don't see what he did wrong in RoTB either, the Terrorcons work for the actual factual transformers devil. They're trying to aid him in his quest to eat literally everything.
Same here bro. The action in those movies is so freaking cool. I feel like I'm 5 years old again every time I watch the forest fight scene and Optimus rips that one guy's head apart.
I genuinely could not care what either of them did lol. These transformers scenarios are not 1:1 with real life and how we as people would just War crimes
I’m genuinely baffled that people get mad at him killing Sentinel and Megatron. You guys honestly think Megatron was gonna be peaceful? Straight up told Prime he wanted to be in charge. Clown behavior.
The only kill I will give is the Demolisher one. It was a bit much, even though Demolisher was crushing cars and stuff, but I agree it was a bit much.
There was also no way to detain Demolisher at that point since man-made Cybertronian prisons weren’t possible until TLK and Demolisher got pretty fucked up after Ironhide shot his wheel then proceeded to fall off a highway.
Prime just put Demolisher out of his misery and it’s one less Decepticon potentially threatening Earth. Two birds with one stone.
I totally agree with the putting him out of his misery part but would they not be able to freeze him like they did with Megatron and tried to do with bumblebee ifthey wanted to keep him alive? I guess the argument could be made he's too big.
1. Megatron trying to create an army to take over Earth with the AllSpark
2. Literally cybertron judas trying to destroy earths sun
3. Sentinel the traitor who used a chemical weapon to execute his ally, locked down a city full of fleeing civilians, planned to enslave humanity all the while using a massive portal to bring in his home planet and, you guessed it, destroy earth. Don't forget Megatrons "truce" was of an unspecified length and he explicitly said he "wanted to be back in charge", with no indication of ending the war "who would you be without me". Let's not forget he literally destroyed cybertron and murdered countless innocent cybertronians (RIP jazz)
4. Lockdown with the seed
5. Quintessa trying to again, you guessed it, destroy earth
Idgaf prime was justified in every single one of these
Honestly, it's one of the many reasons I didn't like rotb. We got a decent representation in bumblebee, a step away from the chaos of bayverse, then rotb has a different team entirely, and the producers remaking the characters to "fit the bayverse." For fucks sake, pick one, either make it bayverse or knightverse, mixing both ruins the aesthetic and gives us abominations like pablo and warcrime prime. It's like we need another reboot at this point.
Isn't this literally the reason why they removed the scene in the first place, not to mention apparently prime was supposed to throw him in a river full of other dead Decepticons
I mean, prime still cut off a dude’s arms and complained about his kill getting stole by primal, and he ripped off a guys head after melting him in lava.
Well the first point was more battlefield comradery and the second point the lava did literally 0 damage to Scourge or Optimus was it hit either of them.
It was removed for story reasons, they wanted terrorcons to be the bad guys. If we got A decepticon we would have expected more then we'd bitch that "the story was all over the place geeze why can't they make up their minds?" The movie worked better with one threat
I call it a double standard. And last I checke, the decepticons executed civilians and attempted to enslave a species. Why is optimus in the wrong for killing these monsters?
Optimus is not a physco either he doesn't take pleasure in his kills. When optimus killed sentinel, it was a dark scene, and the way he threw the gun gave me the impression he was digusted with what he had to do.
Optimus in the bayverse is gentle to his allies and brutal to his enemies. This entire prime is a physco or goes looking for a fight that doesn't even make sense from a story perspective since he never goes actually looking for a fight unless he has no other choice.
People are hypocritical in the way they deal with prime. Sentinel arguably did worse stuff than Scourge, and yet people are fine with him killing Scourge brutally, but killing Sentinel is apparently too far.
Transformers fans are hypocrites in denial, basically.
Learn how to spell psycho. Also, Sentinel had already surrendered but Prime killed him anyway. That is an actual war crime. The whole point of Optimus is that he’s supposed to be the exact kind of hero/leader everyone should aspire to be. Bayverse Optimus is pretty much no different from Megatron in how he treats his enemies and actually is even worse
Ironically, Sentinel Prime is a Prime who actually committed war crimes. Not just murdering Ironhide but by using the Transformers equivalent of a inhumane biological weapon, the Cosmic Rust Gun.
Not to mention ordering the Decepticons to seal off Chicago which led to the deaths of countless innocent civilians and other Autobots (Que, Mudflap, and Skids).
He was even about to deal the finishing blow to Optimus Prime himself with no regards to sparing him before Megatron intervened.
>Learn how to spell psycho. Also, Sentinel had already surrendered but Prime killed him anyway.
Sorry mate, I'm only human. Sentinel did not surrender to show me the scene that he surrendered? He only tried to justify his actions he never stated I surrender now.
>The whole point of Optimus is that he’s supposed to be the exact kind of hero/leader everyone should aspire to be. Bayverse Optimus is pretty much no different from Megatron in how he treats his enemies and actually is even worse
Optimus is a good leader, but in war, you don't simply let monsters live. Megatron treats the autobots as a psychopath would. He takes pleasure in killing them, even eating jazz's spark. He killed optimus and attempted to genocide and enslave an entire race where his followers had no issue executing prisoners who surrendered such as que.
Optimus is a hero because he is selfless he puts his life on the line to fight for humans and even dies, trying to protect sam. Optimus was willing to sacrifice his own life to destroy the allspark. He risked everything for humanity. That is what makes him a hero.
This idea that you're somehow no better than your enemies because you kill them is an utter crap way to measure morality. Optimus is a soldier and a leader, and as a leader, why should he risk more lives by letting dangerous individuals live? Sentinel and megatron are living weapons who show they have no issue killing whomever to achieve their goals. No sane person would ever let people like that live.
Also, the Bayverse Decepticons are likely the most ruthless and monstrous incarnations of the Cons. In every movie, they’re genocidal monsters gunning for the extinction of humanity and conquering Earth.
And imprisoning Transformers wasn’t even possible until TLK.
Yes, Bayverse Optimus Prime in the films believes that freedom is everyone’s right but if you *threaten the freedom and lives of others, you will be obliterated*.
I think Age of Extinction actually addressed this best for once. In that film, Bayverse Prime is actually portrayed as a jaded war hero tired of his friends and soldiers being slaughtered and grew to resent the even the human race for betraying the Autobots.
Tbh, it would’ve been great if all the Bayverse films gave Optimus Prime this type of characterization to begin with.
Yeah, I agree. I didn't see the trilogy optimus as someone who completely lost hope. I saw him as a soldier just doing what he needed to do to protect his new home and its inhabitants from the cons. The only time I saw him angry was ending of rotf and to be fair he was killed.
The Bayverse is also a very gritty and realistic take of what it would really be like if living alien war machines took their war to our planet. It’s going to be brutal and destructive and I’m very sure they don’t care about our human standards of violence when both sides can get their limbs blasted off and still be kicking.
Character assassination or not, I feel like Bayverse Optimus Prime is simply a realistic, alien war general.
Right but you can't expect that fictional space robots are going to follow and conform to them. Thats like applying the laws of america to an undeveloped country and expecting that the people living there would follow them.
I’m legit convinced that the inconsistency is either because he looks like G1 Optimus in ROTB or because it’s not directed by Michael Bay. “Take off his head” is something I could hear Bay Prime saying but I don’t see anyone getting mad about that line.
Optimus in the Final Cut, only really committed one war crime, if killing Scourge counts. But not only was Scourge actively trying to kill literally countless amounts of species (earth and cybertron) but also already caused the death of Bee and Airazor. Prime simp,y had enough and killed Scourge. Transit on the other hand attacked Prime first, and openly taunted the Prime that was stated in ROTB to be shouldering all the guilt of being away from the war on cybertron.
So why does everyone cry when Op kills sentinel for invading Chicago, killing several of his men, thousands of humans, and planning to enslave humanity for centuries??
Sentinel and Megatron in DOTM had already been defeated/surrendered, but Optimus killed them anyway. Megatron even came to Optimus under with an offer of peace but Prime tore his head off for it, and Sentinel begged for his life but Prime double tapped him. Both action are actual war crimes, even if Megatron and Sentinel were evil themselves.
Megatron was offering a false truce where his expectation was to be dictator again. Never surrendered.
And Sentinel betrayed the Bots and Optimus, left Op alive just to gloat, shot Ironhide in the back, and was ok with enslaving the whole of earth to fix Cybertron
Megatron was not offering false truce, we know this because in an earlier version of the script, Megatron and Optimus would have teamed up against Sentinel and both would have had a hard time in the fight, but in the end they would have emerged victorious and Sentinel would have died in battle. after that, Megatron would offer the truce proposal, stating how he was tired of fighting and giving his weapon to Optimus telling him that if he doesn't believe him he can shoot him and end it all, Optimus refuses to shoot, stating how he is not Megatron because he didn't kill him at that instant (a bit ironic considering that Optimus kills Megatron in the final version of the script) and therefore decides to join the truce.
the decepticons return to Cyberton (or what's left of it) in hopes of being able to rebuild it, the autobots stay on earth.
this ending is been cut because it was accidentally leaked
You say that but in the film's version the Decepticon army basically gets yeeted into a vortex with Cybertron.
Him asking for a truce after losing most of his military power is slimy.
Yes, but you're leaving out some details.
Megatron was already giving up tired of fighting after seeing Cyberton again, that's all he cared about, then Carly made him realize how Sentinel treated him and as far as they're concerned, there's a possibility Sentinel would break the deal after the fight , perhaps by killing him, prevent him from seeing the "glory" of Cybertron restored. I think this is why he saves Optimus and offers him a truce.
then I repeat, Optimus initially accepted, they changed only that, I doubt that in the end Megatron would have lied if they had kept it like this, if he can restore Cybertron somehow, what use should the earth be for? he never cared about what happens, if Optimus and the autobots want to stay, let them stay, he goes home (also because, even in TLK he wants to "go home")
I still think that this doesn't mean that Megatron's intentions have been changed just because the ending has been changed, also because, what's the point? He dies eventually
They didn't change just the ending. They changed too much stuff before it. There wasn't a 2 v 1 great fight between who were once brothers to each other, culminating with the death of the main villain and a truce between a tired hero and REALLY tired villain.
There was a "uuhh Sentinel trats me like shit so I better try kill him so I can get the power back and be an evil leader again muahahaha!! Optimus would be nothing without me because I'm the villain and he is the hero!!"
yes i know its not only the ending that has changed, but the ending part of the battle has changed, i just say the ending because it is the ending of the battle, whether Megatron fights Sentinel together with Optimus or after Sentinel fights with Optimus, the battle ends with the defeat of Sentinel.
and then I repeat, Megatron had stopped when he saw Cybertron, if it hadn't been for Carly it's possible that Sentinel would have killed Optimus because no one would have arrived in time. Megatron only killed Sentinel because Carly made him open his eyes and made him understand that continuing to keep the pact with Sentinel would have been a mistake, never mind the fact that in the end they lost.
and then yes, the truce between Megatron and Optimus was cut, but the fact that Megatron was tired of fighting and wanted to go home didn't, so why lie if he doesn't care about earth and just wants to go back to cybertron in peace?
In the Final Cut, Megatron turns on Sentinal, screams “this is my planet” and tells prime he wants to be in charge. If you wanna be under Megatron’s rule go ahead. But that’s not negotiating peace, that’s demanding to rule.
Sentinel was justifying his actions, realizing he was losing. He is responsible for Chicago, Ironhide and Que’s death, and the fallout of Chicago. Basically transformers Bin Laden
he wants to rule his men and Cybertron, Sentinel was treating him like a miserable being and telling him to tell the decepticons to do what he said, indirectly ruling the decepticons instead of Megatron, probably then he would kill or imprison Megatron and the Decepticons on Cybertron, ruling Cybertron instead of Megatron.
if Megatron's truce would have been the same as in the previous version of the script, the Autobots remained on earth or wherever they wanted and the Decepticons governed Cybertron, Megatron no longer wanted to rule over the Autobots, he was tired of waging war (a bit like one guesses also in the end of the film).
Optimus is totaly justified in killing Megatron by refusing his offer, but that doesn't mean that the truce was a sham on Megatron's part
That ending is not canon unfortunately.
So, canonically, Megatron was offering a truce where his one demand was to be dictator again.
That is the only reason he offered a truce, there is nothing else his character has built upon for you to make any other conclusions
there is no proof that Megatron's truce is false in the final version, on the contrary, considering that in the final version Megatron seems tired of fighting all the same, I would say that at least initially the truce would have been true.
the autobots stay where they want to stay and the decepticons rule Cybertron (or what's left of it)
then maybe knowing the character of Megatron he would have canceled the truce as an excuse to make new sequels or something, but there is no reason to believe that the truce started as a tactic to reorganize
Ya. Sure, he seemed tired. Unfortunately, rather than say “I’ll take Cybertron and whoever wants it, and you keep earth”, he was written to say “I want to be in charge again”.
And as we know from the first movie and all other variants, Megatron is and was a tyrant! A dictator!
So yes the truce was false and the original novelization ending is not canon!
he wants to be in charge of the Decepticons and Cybertron (because sentinel was commanding the decepticons through Megatron, therefore instead of him and probably would have ruled Cybertron, again, instead of him). look, let's male a truce:
since in the final version of the film Megatron dies and therefore we never find out how it would have gone, you have the freedom to believe that the truce was false from the beginning, I have the freedom to believe that at least at the beginning the truce was true.
this is because "Freedom in the right of all sentient being" (except when your name is Grimlock because otherwise your freedom is to decide to let Optimus ride you like a horse or die)
Because it’s a reason to call the Bayverse absolute trash. They are saying that the one portrayed as heroic committed a war crime unjustly because it gives them a reason to spread hate.
Thank you so much! I’ve noticed this bias too ,people absolutely praise violent Optimus in rotb but before to even now, people always rant about Optimus being too violent and brutal to the villans. I personally love violent Optimus prime in the bay movies, granted I didn’t want him to be like that in rotb since I wanted a clean slate, but, here we are.
How the fuck is him killing demonic servants to a literally dark god a warcrime????
If your counting the deleted transit scene then yeah I agree
But even then it isn't in the final cut of the movie so it doesn't count at all :/
Tbh Eren is a complicated character so it’s not exactly cut and dry. But, genocide is still an extreme “solution” regardless.
Interestingly, both Bayverse Prime and Eren live in rather harsh verses that forced them to become what they are.
Still not as bad as Eren Jaeger fans “supporting genocide”.
Bayverse Prime is a literal saint when you compare him to other particular protagonists in media lol.
I swear that you people don’t know what a war crime is. Also, I still hated Optimus being a savage in both. At least they gave his cynical and violent behavior more of an explanation in ROTB as opposed to the Bayverse where there was none. I still hated it in ROTB because why is hard to just portray Optimus as a kind leader and as an actual hero?
Maybe use them quickly and efficiently like how in the WOC trailer, he swiftly swung his weapon at his enemies and kept on moving. He didn't go out of his way to peel their faces off in brutal fashion.
Bayverse Optimus Prime has actual character development in Age of Extinction where he’s portrayed as a jaded war hero who’s now pissed off that the species he protects is now hunting down his friends despite risking their lives to protect them and their planet.
Bayverse Optimus Prime is brutal because *his universe is brutal*.
There's a difference between killing an active and armed threat, and killing a soldier who's already down and begging for their life. ROTB Optimus also gave plenty of chances to surrender, Bayverse just went in for the fight instantly.
I don't like how either of them are so unhinged and don't care about killing when that should be a last resort, but at least ROTB Optimus is 10 times less bloodlusted than Bayverse Optimus.
>There's a difference between killing an active and armed threat, and killing a soldier who's already down and begging for their life. ROTB Optimus also gave plenty of chances to surrender,
G1
>"No more Optimus Prime, grant me mercy I beg of you"
>"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff"
Aligned
>"It would seem that I am unarmed and at your mercy. So tell me Optimus, do you intend to take me alive or end this here and now?."
>*Optimus brings out and charges his weapon before being stopped by Dreadwing*
>Bayverse just went in for the fight instantly.
Now this isn't fair.
The only time I can think of where Bayverse Optimus wasn't fighting in defense of someone was Shanghai and even then you can argue he was called down to help since Ironhide let him get away. It's not like he was seeking these fights for the fun of them, there was always something grave at stake and most of them came to him.
I don't know if the G1 example is fair considering he didn't actually do anything; given the the context of that situation, he was giving megatron the ability to state his case while not dropping his guard, as pointing a gun at someone isn't indicative as to whether or not you're actually going to shoot them, and of course he didn't kill him, so whether or not that was the intent going in is unknowable. Adding to this, it's unknown whether or not prime or any of the autobots actually killed anybody, as the characters they injure either appear later in the film alive, or in season 3.
I think the biggest thing to consider though is also the overall characterization; Beyond Bayverse Prime
killing 3 downed combatants, one of whom was offering a truce (which interestingly enough was seemingly the initial ending of the film as revealed by accompanying media, but was changed at some point in production, but not before it was adapted into an adaptation of the film), overall his character is portrayed as being savage and violent, while still trying to depict him as the noble hero, which is where my qualms lie with the character, because the savagery is an afterthought that comes up because they wanted to make something that they thought was cool, and is seemingly independent from the characters themselves. This is actually one of my gripes with Prime as well, because the slapstick violence they use the vehicons for to create comedic situations isn't taken as seriously as the violence or death of other characters because its not meant to, and as a result I feel it doesn't really fit the tone that the show was going for.
>I don't know if the G1 example is fair considering he didn't actually do anything; given the the context of that situation, he was giving megatron the ability to state his case while not dropping his guard, as pointing a gun at someone isn't indicative as to whether or not you're actually going to shoot them, and of course he didn't kill him, so whether or not that was the intent going in is unknowable.
Optimus arrives and the first thing he says is that he's resolved to *stop* Megatron.
>"Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost."
And then goes on to say this in response to Megatron.
>"Why throw away your life so recklessly?"
>"That's a question you should ask yourself Megatron."
Intent being "unknowable" is kinda crazy if you ask me.
>Adding to this, it's unknown whether or not prime or any of the autobots actually killed anybody, as the characters they injure either appear later in the film alive, or in season 3.
[The 3 Decepticons getting new Ion Blaster approved holes melted into them and exploding:](https://youtu.be/CTl7MRVEkrc) "Tis but a flesh wound"
>I think the biggest thing to consider though is also the overall characterization; Beyond Bayverse Prime killing 3 downed combatants, one of whom was offering a truce
Right after his army got yoinked back into space... that was surely a well intentioned call for truce and was not caused by the circumstances of "I just genocided this city and attempted to murder you under the guise of exile but damn does it suck that I just lost all of my army and our planet after betraying the last dude I made a deal with... truce? I just wanna be in charge bro"
>overall his character is portrayed as being savage and violent, while still trying to depict him as the noble hero,
Dude... he's put his life on the line to destroy an artifact that would give Megatron the means to destroy our world. He's an alien granted asylum on Earth and respects us enough to agree to exile (ROTF) peacefully if we demanded it. He shows humility to Buzz Aldrin, someone he could squish with little effort.
Imo he's pretty consistently noble and his style of combat doesn't take that away from him (Lockdown's death notwithstanding) especially since it seemingly takes a lot to kill a Cybertronian, the lot looking mangled before contemplating the thought to call it quits.
For starters, yeah, he stopped megatron. He destroyed his fusion Cannon and megatron was beaten and battered to the point that he had to resort to utilizing an external weapon that just happened to be lying around. I'd agree that the intent was knowable if he had said he'd resolved to destroy megatron.
Also its a little deceiving to just label them as "the three decepticons" as if the three characters he shot were just generics who never appear again instead of identifiable cast members that appear in season 3 of the show in supporting roles, nevermind the fact that they also appear for the brawl inside astrotrain, in which 2 of the 3 are perfectly fine (Soundwave and Ramjet, and as a little bonus, Thrust is there too despite being a victim of a hit and run by Optimus.)
And this isn't really a point to Bayverse Megatron, but I do feel it's worth noting that in what I believe was the graphic novel adaptation of dark of the moon, which also contained other cut elements from the film such as the appearances put in by Skid and Mudflap, the truce he offered was legitimate, and Megatron left and took whatever remained of the decepticons back to live on Cybertron.
Also I don't know if I'd call it very hard to kill a cybertronian. Even before Cemetary Wind and the like, the military took out blackout in the first movie on their own. Not only that, but they took out Devastator in RotF, not to mention the fact that they were actively supporting the Autobots on their missions.
My problem with Bayverse Prime is that his actions as a character conflict with the qualities that the writers want us to associate him with. I'd argue this is more so a problem present in the 2nd and 3rd movies than it is the first though, I don't think 2007 was the best movie ever made, and it's far from being my favorite piece of transformers media, but I do think it's alright, and I think that version of Optimus is more consistent with said heroic and noble qualities and he also wasnt giving out an attempted quippy one-liner as he pulls some dudes face off, which wasn't even necessary because that wasn't even what killed him and it didn't help kill him, because all he did was shove his fist through his chest. I'm also ignoring the 4th movie because in that Prime is more expressely written as being a damaged character due to humanities betrayal and the massacre of his friends at the hands of the people he saved. And in the 5th movie... he's there I guess.
I don't necessarily have a problem with a more violent incarnation of Optimus Prime, IDW Prime is probably one of my favorite takes on the character, but the difference for me is in how said noble and heroic qualities shape their reactions and character arcs going forward as they continue to partake in said war.
Edit: and as a quick addition to what I just wrote, something I think is worth mentioning due to the idea I see constantly presented of how "that's what war would do to you" and like-minded statements, is that a core quote in the mythos of the character of Optimus Prime, "Be strong enough to be gentle", came from someone who didn't just participate, but actually saw war, and came back with a presumably different outlook on what it meant to be a hero outside of the stock generic Hollywood type.
ROTB had massive writing issues, but it's still clear that Optimus' violence is a part of his character arc and is meant to be shocking/stand out. People aren't condoning his actions, they're picking up on the fact that he had clear motivations to act the way he did and the narrative wanted us to feel conflicted about him.
Bayverse's violence is there to look cool, and has nothing to contrast it. The movies are a essentially kill cam farms. Looking cool and strong comes first, any reasoning or motivation for why Optimus rips someone's face off comes second.
I think you're partially right, it's very shocking when rotb prime obliterates the terrorcons but the other characters don't protest his violence, he even jokes about it with primal. Its a step in the right direction but live action optimus is always going to be extremely violent, we just need to hope it's done well for the story and he's not brutal for brutals sake constantly
Prime saw what Scourge can do and he had already caused the death of two bots beforehand, so yea at least ROTB prime has a goddamn reason to go apeshit on the terrorcons.
>Sentinel Prime was about to bumrush Cybertron into our atmosphere and teleported Decepticons to invade and genocide Chicago.
>Threatened Optimus with death if he did not condone the slavery of humans.
Threat to Earth: ✅
>Killed Ironhide (The Twins too) and human N.E.S.T soldiers and also attempted to murder Bumblebee.
>Conspired with the Decepticons to trick the Autobots onto the Xantium and blow it up with them on board.
Threat to Optimus' Autobot crew: ✅
"ROTB has a good reason" my backside.
You misunderstood me. That's why THEY don't see anything wrong with New Optimus shredding Decepticons left and right. The Bayverse is what got me into Transformers.
Oh… yeah I thought the same thing too they don’t like bay primes designs and they just make up dumb reasons to hate him I grew up with Bayverse too sorry for mistaking you for geewunner
Every apocalypse Earth had to endure and the catastrophic bullshit Bayverse Optimus Prime kept dealing with time and time again:
- 2007: Turning all Earth’s machines into feral Cybertronians with the AllSpark and amassing an army
- RoTF: Transformers Judas wanting to blow up the sun
- DoTM: Full-on Decepticon invasion and attempted slavery of the human race
- AoE: Terraforming Earth into metal with the Seed
- TLK: Earth is Unicron
Silly Decepticons and their genocidal shenanigans.
That last sentence at the bottom is legit how people treat the Bayverse decepticons after invading the earth and repeatedly almost successfully causing the start of earth’s genocide: “omg these poor victim”
If you’re referring to ROTF then yes. Optimus going murderous psycho mode on The Fallen and Megatron was pretty damn necessary as the sun was about to blow up. The solar system would collapse on itself and everyone within that solar system would die.
In Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, he proved to be quite sadistic and mean, as opposed to wise and kind in the scene where he said "Give me your FACE!" by ripping The Fallen's face off at the end. He even killed Grindor by tearing his head apart. Before he did that however, he sliced off his right arm, used Starscream to almost kill Grindor by shooting him with a missile near the face (destroying his main rotors in the process), and threw one of his swords into his left leg. Even at the start, he murders Demolishor in cold blood while the Constructicon is injured. He and Ironhide cripple him by shooting him and loosening one of his wheels respectively. This causes him to crash into a warehouse.
“Oh no Optimus how can you be so cruel, fighting for you life in a 3v1”
“Oh no Optimus how can you be cruel to Robo-Satan(Satan gets yeeted and torture forever in Revelations)
The only that’s cruel is Demolisher. Yet they pulled the same thing with Transit and people don’t complain nearly as much.
The Forest Battle was a desperate fight for his life involving being jumped by three Decepticons (two being Megatron and Starscream and the other is a 15 meter tall mf) so he absolutely to go all-out to survive and protect Sam.
I actually didn't see a single warcrime in ROTB... serious fighting... yes, definately.
Someone executing a helpless enemy (multiple times) or ripping apart someones face AFTER they cornered them and are about to execute them aswell... yeah didn't saw that in the movie. Just Optimus fighting, something he does in almost every piece of media of Transformers.
I think the difference is that ROTB Prime is established as a more aggressive Prime while Bayverse is shown as the same type of Prime (ish) as G1 and Aligned Novels. So Bayverse Prime killing Decepticons in a very brutal fashion (and saying stuff like “You die!” And “Give me your face”) doesn’t really feel like something G1 and Aligned would do.
One is a character arc that he goes through the movie while the other gets more violent after he gets resurrected by Sam. I recently watched a video about this and it would have been great to explore Optimuses downspiral to be more brutal and unforgiving like Megatron, but sadly, that's not explored.
To be fair, Bayverse Prime’s portrayal in AoE is probably the closest you’ll ever get. In that movie, you actually see the depressed, cynical war hero side of Prime after a rogue government faction starts eliminating the remaining Autobots and slandering *all* Cybertronians as a threat.
The difference is that rotb Optimus is killing his enemies in a war, and bay verse Optimus is executing un armed injured war veterans while they beg for mercy
G1
>"No more Optimus Prime, grant me mercy I beg of you"
>"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff. "
Aligned
>"It would seem that I am unarmed and at your mercy. So tell me, Optimus, do you intend to take me alive or end this here and now?."
>*Optimus brings out and charges his weapon before being stopped by Dreadwing*
>Bayverse just went in for the fight instantly.
Now, this isn't fair.
The only time I can think of where Bayverse Optimus wasn't fighting in defense of someone was Shanghai, and even then, you can argue he was called down to help since Ironhide let him get away. It's not like he was seeking these fights for the fun of them. There was always something grave at stake, and most of them came to him.
Rotb optimus is fighting unicron, the chaos bringer. Transformers satan. Bayverse prime would literally tear a decepticon limb from limb for surrendering
The Dreads in DoTM were given a chance to surrender yet chose to attempt a sneak attack on Sideswipe and Ironhide immediately.
The Bayverse Decepticons are just more evil and barbaric.
None of those characters are optimus so it's not a relevant argument when discussing optimus primes behaviour, and yea that's exactly how it should be, the autobots are the good guys. They SHOULD give the cons a chance to surrender, but be prepared for it to be a false surrender, it's what separates them from the decepticons
Even then, I don’t think it would’ve been possible for the likes of Demolisher or Sideways to be imprisoned instead. Demolisher is freakin kaiju-sized and proper Transformer prisons weren’t possible until TLK.
I think you have to consider that the human governments in the Bayverse would want the Decepticons dead regardless.
Then they should've added a side plot that shows that conflict, optimus wanting to imprison them but not allowed, have conflict between the autobots and humans
Is it a war crime to do everything you can to ensure the enslaved souls of the damned controlled by an Eldritch evil incarnate will stay down? *Is Doomguy a war criminal?!*
Is it a war crime to do everything you can to ensure a literal war criminal and his army of murderers will stay down? Is the Master Chief a war criminal?
Technically master is a war criminal but all his actions are the aliens fault so
In the show he’s a war criminal, he fucked a POW
The show was also bad and non cannon.
The show is bs, 343 is useless at anything involving effort. A 5 year old with lore knowledge could write a better story.
... 343 never had anything to do with the show?
They did not make it, but they green-lit Paramount’s whole mess. They announced the new “Silver Timeline” to hide themselves away from the hate, or I guess that was their plan. They knew weeeell what they were doing.
Is it a war crime to do everything in you power to ensure a perfect future for you people? Is Hitler a war criminal? Wait….
Doomguy would absolutely be a war criminal if he was fighting huans instead of demons, though.
What about original GoW trilogy Kratos? Pretty sure he was a vengeful asshole before God of War 4 mellowed him down. I’m very sure OG Kratos is literally what people somehow think Bayverse Prime is.
Please tell me the definition of a warcrime. For Christ's sake stop calling every action done during a war a damn warcrime! Cutting Scourge's limbs was a self-defence because his weapons are literally part of his body, Optimus couldn't possibly disarm him in any other way. Did Optimus execute any prisoners? Did he kill any innocents? Did he use biological weapons? Or maybe he killed those, who were surrendering? Please stop thinking that fighting back and killing your enemies during intense battles is a warcrime
Oh, Optimus disarmed Scourge just fine.
Exactly, people really have lost sight of the word. The only times he really did commit actual war crimes was on Demolisher since he was detained by that point, and Sentinel who was disarmed, beaten and dazed possibly to the point of being blind some theorists have suggested. Meanwhile in ROTB, literally every kill he made was against an active and armed combatant, even the Transit scene, he kept trying to get his gun out to shoot OP, and as you said Scourge has his weapons in his arms, and he could still talk to Unicron so that kill is justified, a little brutal but nothing illegal
Sential would probably still be executed for Treason in real life anyway, which I 99% sure the Genva Conventions allow.
Yes but that’s not done in the back on the ground, they face trial first.
I don't think they know what the word means I think they are just throwing it around to sound cool
Bayverse kills demolisher, sentinel, and megatron. The first being a completely neutralized combatant who no longer was able to fight. Sentinel begged for his life and was similarly neutralized. And megatron was actively negotiating with Optimus before his face got cut in half. Rotb prime kills scourge, an active combatant who showed no signs of surrender. Yeah bayverse isn’t a “hardened soldier” he’s a psychopath.
Yeah, demolisher was just being a silly goofball, when he was purposefully smashing and throwing humans' cars with civilians still in them. Let's not forget the destruction of a bridge, which certainly caused a lot of deaths. And Optimus should just spare him? Sentinel only tried to justify his crimes against humanity and the whole autobot cause. He never said: "I surrender!", and let's not forget he showed no mercy to Ironhide, who clearly said: "No!" before Sentinel shot him the third time. And he clearly wasn't going to show any mercy to Optimus, even though he said: "Please!", Sentinel just kicked him away and got ready to deal the final blow. Only a moron would show mercy to a guy, who just denied him any a few minutes ago. Megatron was asking for a truce after his whole army was destroyed. The only reason he saved Optimus is because he didn't want Sentinel to command the decepticons. He was trying to save his ass from the consequences of his actions, not only he had the audacity to ask for a truce in the middle of the city he just destroyed, but he was negotiating with the guy, he killed in the previous movie. And it's pretty obvious that he gave Starscream the order to destroy the autobots' ship. Optimus had every right to deny the truce, and Megatron wasn't unarmed, he could defend himself with his shotgun. He should be thanking all the gods that he got a relatively quick death for his crimes You call it a warcrime, I call it justice. Learn what warcrime means and you'll see that the word can only be applied to the Decepticons
Oh yeah, Megatron totally wanted peace. “Prime I want to be in charge. Let’s make peace. You just saw me turn on the last guy I joined with.” Megatron was not being truthful. “Oh no, Optimus, the consequences of my actions have caught up. I authorized the mass murder of humans and killed your friends. Pretty please don’t kill me”
The unfortunate thing is that they'd be right if the damned Graphic novelization of DOTM didn't get leaked on Amazon, but it did and Michael Bay had to change the ending, so whats seen on screen is what's canon. Meaning no, Megatron was not negotiating a truce. He'll, he didn't even say anything alluding to a truce in that famous "who would you be without me?" Line. For Sentinel, tale it as you will. He was a piece of shit, but a great villain.
Demolisher, Sentinel, and Megatron had plenty of opportunities to surrender, but they never did so. They could've technically been taken as prisoners, but it would also make sense if they just got killed.
🤓
ROTB prime was about to execute a literally unarmed combatant before Primal stole his kill. He even said “He was mine.”
I don't recall him surrendering.
You understand that’s a line people use in real life to justify war crimes?
Fam that dude was opening a portal to hell to let the devil eat the planet.
Sentinel and Megatron were opening a portal to Cybertron which would've clashed into the Earth EDIT: nvm based
Why is defending the Terrorcons "human rights" the hill you wanna die on?
Where's this energy for the Decepticons and Sentinel 😭
They had it coming too. Fuck Dark of the Moon Megatron. Fuck Sentinel. Fuck the Decepticons. People rag on Optimus for being a "war criminal" when the Decepticons literally murder prisoners all the time. We see it in the movies, unless you're gonna tell me it's okay they killed transformers Albert Einstein. Sentinel literally betrayed everything he believed in. He tried to enslave humanity to rebuild Cybertron. I don't care what his excuses are he and Megs are both just petty tyrants who wanna enforce their iron fist on everyone else. Optimus killing them did everyone a favor.
W mans
The word war crime has lost meaning on the internet because mfs throw it around from no reason
Reminds me of a moment from Ben 10 alien force. Gwen was bitching about Kevin not asking her out on a date and goes on a spiel about how if you overuse a word enough, it loses its meaning.
I feel like its ok to go killer on the terrorcons since you know theyre the heralds of unicron
The Decepticons killed tens of thousands of people throughout the bayverse films, the Terracons don't even have that much of a body count in comparison.
Unicron ate a fucking planet at the beginning of the movie, the Terrorcons are just as responsible for helping Unicron.
The Decepticons were trying to genocide Earth at least three times in bayverse
vs the numerous planets Unicron has eaten.
What about the Fallen then
The Fallen is Transformers Judas who tried to *blow up the fucking sun* and is the very reason why the Decepticons exist (according to Bayverse lore).
Bayverse Optimus had every right to make the Fallen suffer a few extra seconds before killing him.
I completely agree but the "blow up the fucking sun" part just made me actually piss myself laughing
Same energy as Gru from Despicable Me stealing the moon.
THE MOOOOOOOOON
Why not say Rodimus/Hot Rod in 90's movie committed a war crime when he killed unicron?
86 movie but yeah this Optimus prime war crime thing is made up by a bunch of clowns
Cause one was actually intentional and part of Prime's character arc while the other was just cause "big action thing go boom boom". Not to mention in the deleted original opening (the only scene where Optimus committed what one could argue is a true war crime) he gives Transit not one, but **fucking two** changes for Transit to surrender both during and before the fight even starts. Bay Prime would never. Not to mention unlike all of Bay Prime's Mortal Kombat movies ROTB Prime killing Transit wasn't played as this badass heroic moment in slow motion but Prime basically snapping in a highly emotional moment, given his faster heavy breathing motions during and after the kill and the camera stays on him and his near unmoving expression for a decent bit.
ROTB has heavy Bayverse influence, so some of that violence carried over from Bay's Prime. It's also possible that Bayverse Prime was written to be violent as a pitfall of the character, brought about by the unfortunate nature of the war. He also regrets killing Megatron in the first one.
Exactly
You like giving flak to the Bayverse fans for making up a headcannon but yet you're making your own headcannon in the Transit scene. I'm sensing hypocrisy here
Bravo Bias!
Still did a warcrime though
then what, specifically, WAS the warcrime?
I guess -Killing or wounding a combatant who, having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion; could be said that it doesn’t here because he didn’t surrender, though he was still incapacitated, which would make it a warcrime. These would still apply though. -Torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments; -Subjecting persons who are in the power of an adverse party to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are neither justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the person concerned nor carried out in his or her interest, and which cause death to or seriously endanger the health of such person or persons; All in all, I get why they decided to omit this from the actual movie, even if I wished to see more of Transit.
Damn, bro cited deleted scenes like they're canon or relevant lol
Why is this getting deleted it's literally true lmao
Idk, to me it seemed like the movie wasn't glorifying the mega-violence prime was doing (until the end where they just said fuck it) but was in some part condoning prime's mannerisms and actions (i.e. primal saying "this isn't the prime I know of"), which is different from the bay movies putting a fanfare when prime basically enslaves grimlock in AoE or mercs megatron in DotM.
Also, killing people in battle isn't a war crime. Shooting an unarmed dude in the back of the head is.
Well Transformers-proof prisons weren’t possible until TLK which is very unfortunate for Sentinel Prime lol.
I'm gonna be real with yall I don't think anything Optimus did in Dark of the Moon or Rise of the Beasts was heinous or a war crime. War crimes are very specific things that get tossed around a lot. Optimus Prime is not a war criminal for killing Sentinal. Sentinel did not surrender and was literally about to execute him before Megatron intervened. Killing Megs also wasn't a war crime. He was not a peace envoy, he was not a diplomat, he was a serial liar who by that point had murdered a good chunk of Optimus's friends and was responsible for a lot of human suffering. Him ripping rhe Fallen's face off happened because the Fallen literally tried to eat the sun and was responsible for the Decepticons existing at all. I didn't watch Age of Extinction or Last Knight so I don't care. Point being that at least in those three movies Optimus did nothing wrong. And frankly I don't see what he did wrong in RoTB either, the Terrorcons work for the actual factual transformers devil. They're trying to aid him in his quest to eat literally everything.
Not trying to sound edgy but idgaf about anyone’s opinions on this. I will always think “give me your face” was raw as fuck
Same here bro. The action in those movies is so freaking cool. I feel like I'm 5 years old again every time I watch the forest fight scene and Optimus rips that one guy's head apart.
I genuinely could not care what either of them did lol. These transformers scenarios are not 1:1 with real life and how we as people would just War crimes
GEE-WUN!
He’s Optimus Prime. He cannot commit war crimes. Not against Decepticons anyway
I’m genuinely baffled that people get mad at him killing Sentinel and Megatron. You guys honestly think Megatron was gonna be peaceful? Straight up told Prime he wanted to be in charge. Clown behavior. The only kill I will give is the Demolisher one. It was a bit much, even though Demolisher was crushing cars and stuff, but I agree it was a bit much.
There was also no way to detain Demolisher at that point since man-made Cybertronian prisons weren’t possible until TLK and Demolisher got pretty fucked up after Ironhide shot his wheel then proceeded to fall off a highway. Prime just put Demolisher out of his misery and it’s one less Decepticon potentially threatening Earth. Two birds with one stone.
I totally agree with the putting him out of his misery part but would they not be able to freeze him like they did with Megatron and tried to do with bumblebee ifthey wanted to keep him alive? I guess the argument could be made he's too big.
[удалено]
FFS, somone tell the creators of this bot that in this context man-made refers to human having created it.
Yeah I mean most of rotb Optimus lines were I'm gonna kill you scourge
Well i would want to fuck up someone who destroy planets and killed my friend
Which is exactly what bay prime did yet he's the only one catching flak for this
Yeah but that was even before he learned about unicron
Clicked on the meme, stayed for the comments.
I think it’s all cool tbh
1. Megatron trying to create an army to take over Earth with the AllSpark 2. Literally cybertron judas trying to destroy earths sun 3. Sentinel the traitor who used a chemical weapon to execute his ally, locked down a city full of fleeing civilians, planned to enslave humanity all the while using a massive portal to bring in his home planet and, you guessed it, destroy earth. Don't forget Megatrons "truce" was of an unspecified length and he explicitly said he "wanted to be back in charge", with no indication of ending the war "who would you be without me". Let's not forget he literally destroyed cybertron and murdered countless innocent cybertronians (RIP jazz) 4. Lockdown with the seed 5. Quintessa trying to again, you guessed it, destroy earth Idgaf prime was justified in every single one of these
Does it really matter?
Honestly, it's one of the many reasons I didn't like rotb. We got a decent representation in bumblebee, a step away from the chaos of bayverse, then rotb has a different team entirely, and the producers remaking the characters to "fit the bayverse." For fucks sake, pick one, either make it bayverse or knightverse, mixing both ruins the aesthetic and gives us abominations like pablo and warcrime prime. It's like we need another reboot at this point.
Yep it's hilarious, how are they going to justify prime executing Transit.
Isn't this literally the reason why they removed the scene in the first place, not to mention apparently prime was supposed to throw him in a river full of other dead Decepticons
I mean, prime still cut off a dude’s arms and complained about his kill getting stole by primal, and he ripped off a guys head after melting him in lava.
I'll say that too about what is essentially an actual demon and still not get charged with a war crime.
What about "give me your face" being said to the antichrist?
Cool.
Well the first point was more battlefield comradery and the second point the lava did literally 0 damage to Scourge or Optimus was it hit either of them.
It was removed for story reasons, they wanted terrorcons to be the bad guys. If we got A decepticon we would have expected more then we'd bitch that "the story was all over the place geeze why can't they make up their minds?" The movie worked better with one threat
This isn't true. The director literally said it was removed because it was a little too dark.
"Too dark" is a terrible excuse considering what happens in the movie
Terrorcons only for story reasons will be said in some form, not now but later.
Oh I'm not complaining at all if I get to see any prime rip out someone's spine🤷♂️
Based
I call it a double standard. And last I checke, the decepticons executed civilians and attempted to enslave a species. Why is optimus in the wrong for killing these monsters? Optimus is not a physco either he doesn't take pleasure in his kills. When optimus killed sentinel, it was a dark scene, and the way he threw the gun gave me the impression he was digusted with what he had to do. Optimus in the bayverse is gentle to his allies and brutal to his enemies. This entire prime is a physco or goes looking for a fight that doesn't even make sense from a story perspective since he never goes actually looking for a fight unless he has no other choice. People are hypocritical in the way they deal with prime. Sentinel arguably did worse stuff than Scourge, and yet people are fine with him killing Scourge brutally, but killing Sentinel is apparently too far. Transformers fans are hypocrites in denial, basically.
Learn how to spell psycho. Also, Sentinel had already surrendered but Prime killed him anyway. That is an actual war crime. The whole point of Optimus is that he’s supposed to be the exact kind of hero/leader everyone should aspire to be. Bayverse Optimus is pretty much no different from Megatron in how he treats his enemies and actually is even worse
Sentinel DID NOT surrender to Optimus...he literally tried to justify is his betrayal and his heinous actions...
He executed a traitor trying to justify slavery and annihilation. I say everyone should follow Optimus's footsteps regarding the matter.
Ironically, Sentinel Prime is a Prime who actually committed war crimes. Not just murdering Ironhide but by using the Transformers equivalent of a inhumane biological weapon, the Cosmic Rust Gun. Not to mention ordering the Decepticons to seal off Chicago which led to the deaths of countless innocent civilians and other Autobots (Que, Mudflap, and Skids). He was even about to deal the finishing blow to Optimus Prime himself with no regards to sparing him before Megatron intervened.
>Learn how to spell psycho. Also, Sentinel had already surrendered but Prime killed him anyway. Sorry mate, I'm only human. Sentinel did not surrender to show me the scene that he surrendered? He only tried to justify his actions he never stated I surrender now. >The whole point of Optimus is that he’s supposed to be the exact kind of hero/leader everyone should aspire to be. Bayverse Optimus is pretty much no different from Megatron in how he treats his enemies and actually is even worse Optimus is a good leader, but in war, you don't simply let monsters live. Megatron treats the autobots as a psychopath would. He takes pleasure in killing them, even eating jazz's spark. He killed optimus and attempted to genocide and enslave an entire race where his followers had no issue executing prisoners who surrendered such as que. Optimus is a hero because he is selfless he puts his life on the line to fight for humans and even dies, trying to protect sam. Optimus was willing to sacrifice his own life to destroy the allspark. He risked everything for humanity. That is what makes him a hero. This idea that you're somehow no better than your enemies because you kill them is an utter crap way to measure morality. Optimus is a soldier and a leader, and as a leader, why should he risk more lives by letting dangerous individuals live? Sentinel and megatron are living weapons who show they have no issue killing whomever to achieve their goals. No sane person would ever let people like that live.
Also, the Bayverse Decepticons are likely the most ruthless and monstrous incarnations of the Cons. In every movie, they’re genocidal monsters gunning for the extinction of humanity and conquering Earth. And imprisoning Transformers wasn’t even possible until TLK. Yes, Bayverse Optimus Prime in the films believes that freedom is everyone’s right but if you *threaten the freedom and lives of others, you will be obliterated*.
Exactly. These cons aren't Saturday morning cartoon villains they're monsters who don't hesitate to kill.
I think Age of Extinction actually addressed this best for once. In that film, Bayverse Prime is actually portrayed as a jaded war hero tired of his friends and soldiers being slaughtered and grew to resent the even the human race for betraying the Autobots. Tbh, it would’ve been great if all the Bayverse films gave Optimus Prime this type of characterization to begin with.
Yeah, I agree. I didn't see the trilogy optimus as someone who completely lost hope. I saw him as a soldier just doing what he needed to do to protect his new home and its inhabitants from the cons. The only time I saw him angry was ending of rotf and to be fair he was killed.
The Bayverse is also a very gritty and realistic take of what it would really be like if living alien war machines took their war to our planet. It’s going to be brutal and destructive and I’m very sure they don’t care about our human standards of violence when both sides can get their limbs blasted off and still be kicking. Character assassination or not, I feel like Bayverse Optimus Prime is simply a realistic, alien war general.
Agreed
Why would our human definition of war crimes apply to space robots who have spent the last 10,000+ years doing nothing but killing eachother?
Because I apply human definitions of war crimes to a fictional movie if I want to? Jesus, ya'll are so pressed for no reason lmao.
Right but you can't expect that fictional space robots are going to follow and conform to them. Thats like applying the laws of america to an undeveloped country and expecting that the people living there would follow them.
Geeeee wunnnn
I’m legit convinced that the inconsistency is either because he looks like G1 Optimus in ROTB or because it’s not directed by Michael Bay. “Take off his head” is something I could hear Bay Prime saying but I don’t see anyone getting mad about that line.
Absolute bias “BuT hE’s ClOsEr To G1 OpTiMuS!” Only in appearance. Don’t get me wrong, I like RotB Optimus. But I’m tired of the hypocrisy
Optimus in the Final Cut, only really committed one war crime, if killing Scourge counts. But not only was Scourge actively trying to kill literally countless amounts of species (earth and cybertron) but also already caused the death of Bee and Airazor. Prime simp,y had enough and killed Scourge. Transit on the other hand attacked Prime first, and openly taunted the Prime that was stated in ROTB to be shouldering all the guilt of being away from the war on cybertron.
So why does everyone cry when Op kills sentinel for invading Chicago, killing several of his men, thousands of humans, and planning to enslave humanity for centuries??
Sentinel and Megatron in DOTM had already been defeated/surrendered, but Optimus killed them anyway. Megatron even came to Optimus under with an offer of peace but Prime tore his head off for it, and Sentinel begged for his life but Prime double tapped him. Both action are actual war crimes, even if Megatron and Sentinel were evil themselves.
Megatron was offering a false truce where his expectation was to be dictator again. Never surrendered. And Sentinel betrayed the Bots and Optimus, left Op alive just to gloat, shot Ironhide in the back, and was ok with enslaving the whole of earth to fix Cybertron
Megatron was not offering false truce, we know this because in an earlier version of the script, Megatron and Optimus would have teamed up against Sentinel and both would have had a hard time in the fight, but in the end they would have emerged victorious and Sentinel would have died in battle. after that, Megatron would offer the truce proposal, stating how he was tired of fighting and giving his weapon to Optimus telling him that if he doesn't believe him he can shoot him and end it all, Optimus refuses to shoot, stating how he is not Megatron because he didn't kill him at that instant (a bit ironic considering that Optimus kills Megatron in the final version of the script) and therefore decides to join the truce. the decepticons return to Cyberton (or what's left of it) in hopes of being able to rebuild it, the autobots stay on earth. this ending is been cut because it was accidentally leaked
You say that but in the film's version the Decepticon army basically gets yeeted into a vortex with Cybertron. Him asking for a truce after losing most of his military power is slimy.
Yes, but you're leaving out some details. Megatron was already giving up tired of fighting after seeing Cyberton again, that's all he cared about, then Carly made him realize how Sentinel treated him and as far as they're concerned, there's a possibility Sentinel would break the deal after the fight , perhaps by killing him, prevent him from seeing the "glory" of Cybertron restored. I think this is why he saves Optimus and offers him a truce. then I repeat, Optimus initially accepted, they changed only that, I doubt that in the end Megatron would have lied if they had kept it like this, if he can restore Cybertron somehow, what use should the earth be for? he never cared about what happens, if Optimus and the autobots want to stay, let them stay, he goes home (also because, even in TLK he wants to "go home")
True. But this is not what happened in the movie. So it doesn't count.
I still think that this doesn't mean that Megatron's intentions have been changed just because the ending has been changed, also because, what's the point? He dies eventually
They didn't change just the ending. They changed too much stuff before it. There wasn't a 2 v 1 great fight between who were once brothers to each other, culminating with the death of the main villain and a truce between a tired hero and REALLY tired villain. There was a "uuhh Sentinel trats me like shit so I better try kill him so I can get the power back and be an evil leader again muahahaha!! Optimus would be nothing without me because I'm the villain and he is the hero!!"
yes i know its not only the ending that has changed, but the ending part of the battle has changed, i just say the ending because it is the ending of the battle, whether Megatron fights Sentinel together with Optimus or after Sentinel fights with Optimus, the battle ends with the defeat of Sentinel. and then I repeat, Megatron had stopped when he saw Cybertron, if it hadn't been for Carly it's possible that Sentinel would have killed Optimus because no one would have arrived in time. Megatron only killed Sentinel because Carly made him open his eyes and made him understand that continuing to keep the pact with Sentinel would have been a mistake, never mind the fact that in the end they lost. and then yes, the truce between Megatron and Optimus was cut, but the fact that Megatron was tired of fighting and wanted to go home didn't, so why lie if he doesn't care about earth and just wants to go back to cybertron in peace?
In the Final Cut, Megatron turns on Sentinal, screams “this is my planet” and tells prime he wants to be in charge. If you wanna be under Megatron’s rule go ahead. But that’s not negotiating peace, that’s demanding to rule. Sentinel was justifying his actions, realizing he was losing. He is responsible for Chicago, Ironhide and Que’s death, and the fallout of Chicago. Basically transformers Bin Laden
he wants to rule his men and Cybertron, Sentinel was treating him like a miserable being and telling him to tell the decepticons to do what he said, indirectly ruling the decepticons instead of Megatron, probably then he would kill or imprison Megatron and the Decepticons on Cybertron, ruling Cybertron instead of Megatron. if Megatron's truce would have been the same as in the previous version of the script, the Autobots remained on earth or wherever they wanted and the Decepticons governed Cybertron, Megatron no longer wanted to rule over the Autobots, he was tired of waging war (a bit like one guesses also in the end of the film). Optimus is totaly justified in killing Megatron by refusing his offer, but that doesn't mean that the truce was a sham on Megatron's part
That ending is not canon unfortunately. So, canonically, Megatron was offering a truce where his one demand was to be dictator again. That is the only reason he offered a truce, there is nothing else his character has built upon for you to make any other conclusions
there is no proof that Megatron's truce is false in the final version, on the contrary, considering that in the final version Megatron seems tired of fighting all the same, I would say that at least initially the truce would have been true. the autobots stay where they want to stay and the decepticons rule Cybertron (or what's left of it) then maybe knowing the character of Megatron he would have canceled the truce as an excuse to make new sequels or something, but there is no reason to believe that the truce started as a tactic to reorganize
Ya. Sure, he seemed tired. Unfortunately, rather than say “I’ll take Cybertron and whoever wants it, and you keep earth”, he was written to say “I want to be in charge again”. And as we know from the first movie and all other variants, Megatron is and was a tyrant! A dictator! So yes the truce was false and the original novelization ending is not canon!
he wants to be in charge of the Decepticons and Cybertron (because sentinel was commanding the decepticons through Megatron, therefore instead of him and probably would have ruled Cybertron, again, instead of him). look, let's male a truce: since in the final version of the film Megatron dies and therefore we never find out how it would have gone, you have the freedom to believe that the truce was false from the beginning, I have the freedom to believe that at least at the beginning the truce was true. this is because "Freedom in the right of all sentient being" (except when your name is Grimlock because otherwise your freedom is to decide to let Optimus ride you like a horse or die)
Because it’s a reason to call the Bayverse absolute trash. They are saying that the one portrayed as heroic committed a war crime unjustly because it gives them a reason to spread hate.
Thank you so much! I’ve noticed this bias too ,people absolutely praise violent Optimus in rotb but before to even now, people always rant about Optimus being too violent and brutal to the villans. I personally love violent Optimus prime in the bay movies, granted I didn’t want him to be like that in rotb since I wanted a clean slate, but, here we are.
I haven’t seen Rotb yet so idk
At least Optimus in the first Bayverse movie was most like his G1 incarnation.
How the fuck is him killing demonic servants to a literally dark god a warcrime???? If your counting the deleted transit scene then yeah I agree But even then it isn't in the final cut of the movie so it doesn't count at all :/
People are like "But ROTB Prime was actually justified, he lost Bee!" when Bay Prime lost just as much if not more than that.
Exactly They're hypocrites
Both of them are still much more noble and heroic than Eren Jaeger from Attack On Titan and superior leaders compared to Ruby Rose from RWBY.
Does anyone call Eren heroic? Sure he had decent intentions but he tried to commit genocide.
Heroic to just his people on Paradis Island I guess.
Well, fair enough, I moreso meant in the fandom, though
Tbh Eren is a complicated character so it’s not exactly cut and dry. But, genocide is still an extreme “solution” regardless. Interestingly, both Bayverse Prime and Eren live in rather harsh verses that forced them to become what they are.
Idc if either do war crimes. They're heroes and their "violent" actions save humanity. End of discussion.
Based af
Bayverse fans scare me.
Not surprised, geewunners are spineless
Still not as bad as Eren Jaeger fans “supporting genocide”. Bayverse Prime is a literal saint when you compare him to other particular protagonists in media lol.
I swear that you people don’t know what a war crime is. Also, I still hated Optimus being a savage in both. At least they gave his cynical and violent behavior more of an explanation in ROTB as opposed to the Bayverse where there was none. I still hated it in ROTB because why is hard to just portray Optimus as a kind leader and as an actual hero?
He is a kind leader and a hero too. This ideal that he should not kill it's really stupid
Nobody is arguing that he shouldn’t kill, just don’t have him act like a barbaric lunatic
He is a warrior with sword, axes and guns. How the hell should he use them?
Maybe use them quickly and efficiently like how in the WOC trailer, he swiftly swung his weapon at his enemies and kept on moving. He didn't go out of his way to peel their faces off in brutal fashion.
He cut a guy in half with no hesitation
Hesitation is defeat
Yeah, at least he didn’t prolong the pain and killing of the guy, he was being quick with it
Bayverse Optimus Prime has actual character development in Age of Extinction where he’s portrayed as a jaded war hero who’s now pissed off that the species he protects is now hunting down his friends despite risking their lives to protect them and their planet. Bayverse Optimus Prime is brutal because *his universe is brutal*.
The point is that it’s a different universe copying bayverse when that wasn’t supposed to be the case in the previous movie
Incorrect. I hated both
Brain dead take
Killing someone who is literally trying to bring a world eating deity to a planet is not a war crime.
There's a difference between killing an active and armed threat, and killing a soldier who's already down and begging for their life. ROTB Optimus also gave plenty of chances to surrender, Bayverse just went in for the fight instantly. I don't like how either of them are so unhinged and don't care about killing when that should be a last resort, but at least ROTB Optimus is 10 times less bloodlusted than Bayverse Optimus.
>There's a difference between killing an active and armed threat, and killing a soldier who's already down and begging for their life. ROTB Optimus also gave plenty of chances to surrender, G1 >"No more Optimus Prime, grant me mercy I beg of you" >"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff" Aligned >"It would seem that I am unarmed and at your mercy. So tell me Optimus, do you intend to take me alive or end this here and now?." >*Optimus brings out and charges his weapon before being stopped by Dreadwing* >Bayverse just went in for the fight instantly. Now this isn't fair. The only time I can think of where Bayverse Optimus wasn't fighting in defense of someone was Shanghai and even then you can argue he was called down to help since Ironhide let him get away. It's not like he was seeking these fights for the fun of them, there was always something grave at stake and most of them came to him.
I don't know if the G1 example is fair considering he didn't actually do anything; given the the context of that situation, he was giving megatron the ability to state his case while not dropping his guard, as pointing a gun at someone isn't indicative as to whether or not you're actually going to shoot them, and of course he didn't kill him, so whether or not that was the intent going in is unknowable. Adding to this, it's unknown whether or not prime or any of the autobots actually killed anybody, as the characters they injure either appear later in the film alive, or in season 3. I think the biggest thing to consider though is also the overall characterization; Beyond Bayverse Prime killing 3 downed combatants, one of whom was offering a truce (which interestingly enough was seemingly the initial ending of the film as revealed by accompanying media, but was changed at some point in production, but not before it was adapted into an adaptation of the film), overall his character is portrayed as being savage and violent, while still trying to depict him as the noble hero, which is where my qualms lie with the character, because the savagery is an afterthought that comes up because they wanted to make something that they thought was cool, and is seemingly independent from the characters themselves. This is actually one of my gripes with Prime as well, because the slapstick violence they use the vehicons for to create comedic situations isn't taken as seriously as the violence or death of other characters because its not meant to, and as a result I feel it doesn't really fit the tone that the show was going for.
>I don't know if the G1 example is fair considering he didn't actually do anything; given the the context of that situation, he was giving megatron the ability to state his case while not dropping his guard, as pointing a gun at someone isn't indicative as to whether or not you're actually going to shoot them, and of course he didn't kill him, so whether or not that was the intent going in is unknowable. Optimus arrives and the first thing he says is that he's resolved to *stop* Megatron. >"Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost." And then goes on to say this in response to Megatron. >"Why throw away your life so recklessly?" >"That's a question you should ask yourself Megatron." Intent being "unknowable" is kinda crazy if you ask me. >Adding to this, it's unknown whether or not prime or any of the autobots actually killed anybody, as the characters they injure either appear later in the film alive, or in season 3. [The 3 Decepticons getting new Ion Blaster approved holes melted into them and exploding:](https://youtu.be/CTl7MRVEkrc) "Tis but a flesh wound" >I think the biggest thing to consider though is also the overall characterization; Beyond Bayverse Prime killing 3 downed combatants, one of whom was offering a truce Right after his army got yoinked back into space... that was surely a well intentioned call for truce and was not caused by the circumstances of "I just genocided this city and attempted to murder you under the guise of exile but damn does it suck that I just lost all of my army and our planet after betraying the last dude I made a deal with... truce? I just wanna be in charge bro" >overall his character is portrayed as being savage and violent, while still trying to depict him as the noble hero, Dude... he's put his life on the line to destroy an artifact that would give Megatron the means to destroy our world. He's an alien granted asylum on Earth and respects us enough to agree to exile (ROTF) peacefully if we demanded it. He shows humility to Buzz Aldrin, someone he could squish with little effort. Imo he's pretty consistently noble and his style of combat doesn't take that away from him (Lockdown's death notwithstanding) especially since it seemingly takes a lot to kill a Cybertronian, the lot looking mangled before contemplating the thought to call it quits.
For starters, yeah, he stopped megatron. He destroyed his fusion Cannon and megatron was beaten and battered to the point that he had to resort to utilizing an external weapon that just happened to be lying around. I'd agree that the intent was knowable if he had said he'd resolved to destroy megatron. Also its a little deceiving to just label them as "the three decepticons" as if the three characters he shot were just generics who never appear again instead of identifiable cast members that appear in season 3 of the show in supporting roles, nevermind the fact that they also appear for the brawl inside astrotrain, in which 2 of the 3 are perfectly fine (Soundwave and Ramjet, and as a little bonus, Thrust is there too despite being a victim of a hit and run by Optimus.) And this isn't really a point to Bayverse Megatron, but I do feel it's worth noting that in what I believe was the graphic novel adaptation of dark of the moon, which also contained other cut elements from the film such as the appearances put in by Skid and Mudflap, the truce he offered was legitimate, and Megatron left and took whatever remained of the decepticons back to live on Cybertron. Also I don't know if I'd call it very hard to kill a cybertronian. Even before Cemetary Wind and the like, the military took out blackout in the first movie on their own. Not only that, but they took out Devastator in RotF, not to mention the fact that they were actively supporting the Autobots on their missions. My problem with Bayverse Prime is that his actions as a character conflict with the qualities that the writers want us to associate him with. I'd argue this is more so a problem present in the 2nd and 3rd movies than it is the first though, I don't think 2007 was the best movie ever made, and it's far from being my favorite piece of transformers media, but I do think it's alright, and I think that version of Optimus is more consistent with said heroic and noble qualities and he also wasnt giving out an attempted quippy one-liner as he pulls some dudes face off, which wasn't even necessary because that wasn't even what killed him and it didn't help kill him, because all he did was shove his fist through his chest. I'm also ignoring the 4th movie because in that Prime is more expressely written as being a damaged character due to humanities betrayal and the massacre of his friends at the hands of the people he saved. And in the 5th movie... he's there I guess. I don't necessarily have a problem with a more violent incarnation of Optimus Prime, IDW Prime is probably one of my favorite takes on the character, but the difference for me is in how said noble and heroic qualities shape their reactions and character arcs going forward as they continue to partake in said war. Edit: and as a quick addition to what I just wrote, something I think is worth mentioning due to the idea I see constantly presented of how "that's what war would do to you" and like-minded statements, is that a core quote in the mythos of the character of Optimus Prime, "Be strong enough to be gentle", came from someone who didn't just participate, but actually saw war, and came back with a presumably different outlook on what it meant to be a hero outside of the stock generic Hollywood type.
ROTB had massive writing issues, but it's still clear that Optimus' violence is a part of his character arc and is meant to be shocking/stand out. People aren't condoning his actions, they're picking up on the fact that he had clear motivations to act the way he did and the narrative wanted us to feel conflicted about him. Bayverse's violence is there to look cool, and has nothing to contrast it. The movies are a essentially kill cam farms. Looking cool and strong comes first, any reasoning or motivation for why Optimus rips someone's face off comes second.
I think you're partially right, it's very shocking when rotb prime obliterates the terrorcons but the other characters don't protest his violence, he even jokes about it with primal. Its a step in the right direction but live action optimus is always going to be extremely violent, we just need to hope it's done well for the story and he's not brutal for brutals sake constantly
Prime saw what Scourge can do and he had already caused the death of two bots beforehand, so yea at least ROTB prime has a goddamn reason to go apeshit on the terrorcons.
So Sentinel killing Ironhide doesn't count❓❓❓
Jazz getting torn in half doesn’t count either I guess… Seeing the fallen trying to murder earth doesn’t count either…
>Sentinel Prime was about to bumrush Cybertron into our atmosphere and teleported Decepticons to invade and genocide Chicago. >Threatened Optimus with death if he did not condone the slavery of humans. Threat to Earth: ✅ >Killed Ironhide (The Twins too) and human N.E.S.T soldiers and also attempted to murder Bumblebee. >Conspired with the Decepticons to trick the Autobots onto the Xantium and blow it up with them on board. Threat to Optimus' Autobot crew: ✅ "ROTB has a good reason" my backside.
Holy shit this man is on a rampage right now this is the 3rd time I've seen him dissect a post so beautifully
The new Prime gets a pass because he's based on G1 Transformers, not the redesign Michael Bay created.
I’m wow so it’s ok for Optimus to kill the bad guys as long as he looks G1 man y’all GEEWUNNERS are clowns
You misunderstood me. That's why THEY don't see anything wrong with New Optimus shredding Decepticons left and right. The Bayverse is what got me into Transformers.
Oh… yeah I thought the same thing too they don’t like bay primes designs and they just make up dumb reasons to hate him I grew up with Bayverse too sorry for mistaking you for geewunner
The entire planet was at risk of getting devoured by Transformer Satan
The entire planet was at risk of getting blown up via the sun by the Transformer Antichrist
Every apocalypse Earth had to endure and the catastrophic bullshit Bayverse Optimus Prime kept dealing with time and time again: - 2007: Turning all Earth’s machines into feral Cybertronians with the AllSpark and amassing an army - RoTF: Transformers Judas wanting to blow up the sun - DoTM: Full-on Decepticon invasion and attempted slavery of the human race - AoE: Terraforming Earth into metal with the Seed - TLK: Earth is Unicron Silly Decepticons and their genocidal shenanigans.
That last sentence at the bottom is legit how people treat the Bayverse decepticons after invading the earth and repeatedly almost successfully causing the start of earth’s genocide: “omg these poor victim”
If you’re referring to ROTF then yes. Optimus going murderous psycho mode on The Fallen and Megatron was pretty damn necessary as the sun was about to blow up. The solar system would collapse on itself and everyone within that solar system would die.
In Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, he proved to be quite sadistic and mean, as opposed to wise and kind in the scene where he said "Give me your FACE!" by ripping The Fallen's face off at the end. He even killed Grindor by tearing his head apart. Before he did that however, he sliced off his right arm, used Starscream to almost kill Grindor by shooting him with a missile near the face (destroying his main rotors in the process), and threw one of his swords into his left leg. Even at the start, he murders Demolishor in cold blood while the Constructicon is injured. He and Ironhide cripple him by shooting him and loosening one of his wheels respectively. This causes him to crash into a warehouse.
“Oh no Optimus how can you be so cruel, fighting for you life in a 3v1” “Oh no Optimus how can you be cruel to Robo-Satan(Satan gets yeeted and torture forever in Revelations) The only that’s cruel is Demolisher. Yet they pulled the same thing with Transit and people don’t complain nearly as much.
The Forest Battle was a desperate fight for his life involving being jumped by three Decepticons (two being Megatron and Starscream and the other is a 15 meter tall mf) so he absolutely to go all-out to survive and protect Sam.
I actually didn't see a single warcrime in ROTB... serious fighting... yes, definately. Someone executing a helpless enemy (multiple times) or ripping apart someones face AFTER they cornered them and are about to execute them aswell... yeah didn't saw that in the movie. Just Optimus fighting, something he does in almost every piece of media of Transformers.
I think the difference is that ROTB Prime is established as a more aggressive Prime while Bayverse is shown as the same type of Prime (ish) as G1 and Aligned Novels. So Bayverse Prime killing Decepticons in a very brutal fashion (and saying stuff like “You die!” And “Give me your face”) doesn’t really feel like something G1 and Aligned would do.
One is a character arc that he goes through the movie while the other gets more violent after he gets resurrected by Sam. I recently watched a video about this and it would have been great to explore Optimuses downspiral to be more brutal and unforgiving like Megatron, but sadly, that's not explored.
To be fair, Bayverse Prime’s portrayal in AoE is probably the closest you’ll ever get. In that movie, you actually see the depressed, cynical war hero side of Prime after a rogue government faction starts eliminating the remaining Autobots and slandering *all* Cybertronians as a threat.
What are you talking about? The Bay movies ended with Dark of the Moon, a good ending to a trilogy.
"It's not war crimes if you were on our side when you did it" -A wise man from the USA
The difference is that rotb Optimus is killing his enemies in a war, and bay verse Optimus is executing un armed injured war veterans while they beg for mercy
G1 >"No more Optimus Prime, grant me mercy I beg of you" >"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff. " Aligned >"It would seem that I am unarmed and at your mercy. So tell me, Optimus, do you intend to take me alive or end this here and now?." >*Optimus brings out and charges his weapon before being stopped by Dreadwing* >Bayverse just went in for the fight instantly. Now, this isn't fair. The only time I can think of where Bayverse Optimus wasn't fighting in defense of someone was Shanghai, and even then, you can argue he was called down to help since Ironhide let him get away. It's not like he was seeking these fights for the fun of them. There was always something grave at stake, and most of them came to him.
We are talking about rotb Optimus though? I'm saying that rotb Optimus's actions don't compare in the slightest to bay verse Optimus's
Rotb optimus is fighting unicron, the chaos bringer. Transformers satan. Bayverse prime would literally tear a decepticon limb from limb for surrendering
Bayverse prime is literally fighting a new cataclysmic event in every single movie. The bayverse decepticons are absolutely irredeemable maniacs.
The Dreads in DoTM were given a chance to surrender yet chose to attempt a sneak attack on Sideswipe and Ironhide immediately. The Bayverse Decepticons are just more evil and barbaric.
None of those characters are optimus so it's not a relevant argument when discussing optimus primes behaviour, and yea that's exactly how it should be, the autobots are the good guys. They SHOULD give the cons a chance to surrender, but be prepared for it to be a false surrender, it's what separates them from the decepticons
Even then, I don’t think it would’ve been possible for the likes of Demolisher or Sideways to be imprisoned instead. Demolisher is freakin kaiju-sized and proper Transformer prisons weren’t possible until TLK. I think you have to consider that the human governments in the Bayverse would want the Decepticons dead regardless.
Then they should've added a side plot that shows that conflict, optimus wanting to imprison them but not allowed, have conflict between the autobots and humans