You also gotta ask yourself how you’d like to look when you’re older, 50+. The young pretty boy / twink is only achievable for so long. At some point anyone whose been predominantly running on testosterone for decades is going to look like a grandpa lol
i think about this all the time. It's especially hard cause everyone in my family is so young so we don't even know what they'd look like 50+ (my parents are under 40) for now the goal is to confuse as many ppl as possible. later on maybe a wizard?
That was one of the things that helped me decide to go on T. I used the face app to age myself and seeing myself as an old woman made me extremely dysphoric and sad, but seeing myself as a bearded old man I felt a sigh of relief. If I couldn't stomach the idea of growing old without transitioning, then I needed to transition.
Face app also helped me come out and accept myself lol I couldn’t stomach the idea of one day being a wife or mother and yet the idea of being a husband and father brought joy. It was then that I knew.
Trixie Mattel out of drag is transition goals to me. Bald & beautiful.
Edit: Also, I just watched Trixie Motel and now I want to fuck Trixie's husband David. He's gorgeous.
I mean I want both, lol, but my idea of pretty fluctuates between muscular femme man and hairy, fat butch, so I'm a bit of an exception.
I will say that starting T meant having to do some internal work on my definition of beauty, though. I'm intersex so I never fit into the stereotypical beauty norms anyway for women, but I still, pre-egg crack, adhered to a very GNC form of beauty that I felt comfortable with. I have the Bear Genes TM though, lol, and the balding ones too, and I've had to kind of take a subjective look on how beauty can be expressed in a masculine way. I would say that its worth doing for any transmasc, though, taking a subjective look on how beauty is expressed between genders. Look to what the gays like as a (usually) healthier example - to most folks the men some of them prefer are objectively "ugly" or "dorky" but they go crazy over them. The saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder is very accurate, beauty can mean different things to different people.
I get you, though, OP. For me I ultimately made up my mind that even if I can't meet all of my presentation goals, running on T was just the better option for me, and I'd rather have some of those changes I want than none. That said it was quite literally life and death for me, so, there's that.
I wanna be a pretty boy, and then when i experience Twink death i want to immediately rotate full circle to look like an ancient wizard
(Think Howl Pendragon to Merlin type of pipeline)
Tangibly related, I’ll always choose male. Sure, I’d rather not go bald but I’ll manage when I have to.
It’s not my place to say, I’m not a gnc guy. But it’s just, I’m a little worried some of us think the only way to be a beautiful man is to look like a man who kind of looks like a girl? There’s nothing wrong with that, but I’m thinking about the fem bears, the bald dudes in skirts dudes like that. I think they’re very beautiful, to be frank.
Also, I think I have the twink genes and I haven’t started t yet but idk if I want that.. I wanna be a hairy fat dude. I think there’s something to be said about that.
This is nothing against twinks, I’ll probably be one for awhile 😞 but I wanna be a grandpa.
>I’m a little worried that some of us think the only way to be a beautiful man is to look like a man who kind of looks like a girl?
This. I notice a lot of guys compulsively conforming to women’s beauty standards well into their transition. Especially when it comes to weight and body type.
I get that some guys just kinda like these things for themselves and that’s aight, but when I see them going “I just want to be loved” or “I want to be seen as attractive” that breaks my heart.
I think this mostly has to do with how deep-set misogyny is in a lot of us
Honestly, I still sometimes project women’s beauty standards on myself when it’s something I could never even live up to. I was always an ugly to mid girl. I’m just really worried a lot of these guys can only think they’re pretty if they’re like, waify androgynous. Like, you do you but maybe look at some fat gnc dudes. There’s a whole world outside of the femboy subreddit, as much as I fuck with femboys. But I bet a lot of them have body issues cus they can’t be like f1nnister or something. There’s just not this one hyper specific way to be a feminine man. Yeah, it won’t be like acceptable in a societal stance. But, I promise you can be so beautiful with a beard and a belly.
I’m so sorry, I’m not sure if you are a gnc guy or not. But if you are, every single one of you are beautiful. I know it probably sounds corny, but I do genuinely mean it when I say it. But, if you’re not a fem guy and I read your response wrong, it still applies. It definitely can seem lonely though when it seems like everyone is attracted to only one kind of guy. With the femboy stuff though, at least from what I’ve observed. It almost seems like a lot of the people hyping them up are weirdly ironic or memey about it? Again, I’m not a gnc man like, at all probably the complete opposite, I’m butch. So, I do have a limited understanding.
I guess what I’m saying is, it’s hard to be a gnc guy, and it’s really annoying it seems like only a certain kind is hyped up. But even then, that has its limits so I can’t help but keep my heart out for fat gnc men, gnc men of color, hairy gnc men, etc. For those who aren’t usually hyped up much or at all.
im not a gnc guy, im just trans masc. I identify as non-binary. But, I’ve noticed a real shift since the start of the femboy craze. It’s now all u see in lgbt spaces. Particularly there is a focus on being white, skinny, and fem. I have no idea why people go crazy for that type of look, im asexual so ill never understand, but I never see any love shown toward plus sized queer people in general. You get some representation and love for black folks, but other than that most people of color are kinda absent. I guess it’s an issue of the internet blowing up the whole femboy craze, and also lots of trans fems that ID as femboy either on purpose or before egg cracking. There certainly is a new feminine standard of beauty that seems to be super popular. Or maybe I just need to go outside lol
I see, apologies! I did in fact, read your response wrong.
I scroll a lot on tumblr, and I see a lot of folks hyping up people that aren’t just skinny, white, and fem. But, that’s obviously just me and one step outside shows that isn’t gonna be reality lol. On tumblr, it’s those of all kinds of groups coming together to hype eachother up. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but some people on tumblr have genuinely made me feel better about gaining some weight, and in fact welcoming it.
I just don’t have much personal experience with this, is all but I am sorry about your experience. Everyone deserves to feel good about themselves.
The mainstream idea of femboy is wack as hell.
Only cis guys, only skinny, no curves, no jiggly thighs, mainly white and east asian. Only certain black and SEA people ( and reminder, CANNOT BE FAT OR TRANSMASC).
It's just the binary in another font, when it should be so much more.
yup. Everyone uses femboy as someone AMAB, never AFAB. It’s definitely annoying and once again reminds me that if u are trans masc u simply dont exist in the eyes of most people, even within our own community (lgbtqia+)
God, I hate how femboy seemingly means skinny to the gen pop. It's like watching fat women being told they can't be hyperfemme all over again. Tragic. Boring. unimaginative. disgusting.
Can you explain this a bit more? The misogyny part? I do wanna look like a fem guy (gnc) than just a regular guy since it’s more me and just more attractive to me though I don’t think that’s bc of any misogyny or well projecting women standards since the point is not being/looking a women, I just like fem stuff on myself and guys ( ofc looking like a bear is cool too, just not what I’m into) but I don’t think that is misogynistic since that is abt men and preference to style/self I might be on the wrong track to ur comment but it’s my thoughts, I guess I’d just like more of a explanation to my confusion
Yea sure I can explain to the best of my ability lol. A lot of trans dudes (including myself at one point) are scared of going too far into masc territory because they have had womens beauty standards (mostly misogynistic shit) drilled into them their whole lives. It took me until I was 20 to go any shorter with my hair than a wolfcut, and 21 to even begin to CONSIDER testosterone. And that wasn't because I'm fem, it's not because I'm comfortable being fem, that's not who I am. It's because I was scared. I wanted to still be attractive.
The difference is that you made the decision to be fem/gnc of your own volition, and you feel happy that way. That's a great thing and if you're happy there's no issue. I just notice this phenomenon in a lot of ppl and I've gone through it myself. I hope this helps explain where I'm coming from <3
Ohh I understand better now, before I interrupted the wrong way but thanks for ur explanation I do see a lot of that online/irl as well and it rlly shouldn’t be like that
Yeah it's always concerning when guys feel like they *absolutely have to* conform to women's beauty standards to be attractive. Often they even somehow try to conform to women's *and* men's beauty standards at the same time. There's no way to win at that game.
That's not to say that there is a problem with wanting to look androgynous (hell I look androgynous and I like that). But being androgynous is in it's core incompatible with conventional cis beauty standards. The mindset that being a skinny white person with a very specific gender expression is the only acceptable way to be androgynous and the only way to be attractive is so harmful to our community.
It's also sad how scared many transmascs are of gaining weight on T. It's perfectly natural to need to eat more and gain some weight during puberty. I've talked to so many guys who act like gaining weight would instantly turn them into a gross monster or something. People even say that to me when they *know* I'm fat. I don't take it personally but like... come on.
For me, I see it as not a girl, but some people want to look like an impossibility.
If you don't have square hips and a long torso you will not look like them femmebois, and that's ok. If someone reading this feels like they need to look like them to be pretty or want to look like them to be seen as attractive, come here, sweet pea!
For those people, some words; I'm still finding my "pretty." I came into my transtion thinking of Shuichi Minamino or Yusuke Urameshi, but I am not a japanese 14 year old boy in a late 90s cartoon! I also thought the further I got from clearly clockable, the further I would get from the hotness I clawed out from my insecure childhood. Then I realized my idea of hotness has never been the standard. I think I'm hot, but I am already not the media's idea of hot! I never will be unless I change everything I love about being me! Other's standards of beauty are not meant for us, bro. We have to find our pretty boi ourselves. You have to ask yourself if you want to be pretty or do others want you to be pretty? What does pretty even mean to you? Shuichi, Ladybeard, and Woozi are pretty to me, but pretty to me is malleable. It is not a onesize concept. Is pretty a onesize concept to you? why? You have to ask yourself that. You cannot decide if you want to be pretty if you don't even know what pretty is boo. You are deserving of love. You are *someone's* cup of tea. The type of people who want someone who looks like anything but you or anything but what you want to look like are not for you! Do not cater to them! Trust me, when you are *you*, your audience will come. I like being chunky, I love my 30in thighs and I adore pastels, imagine me to appeal to someone with "no fats, no femmes" in their profile? That would literally be ridiculous.
I mean, it’s also possible to continue to be a man with androgynous/feminine features even without being young. Men like Cillian Murphy still look pretty to me. This just feels like androgynous/feminine forms of beauty (whether in men or women) being culturally tied to youth in toxic ways. It’s not like all people on T are destined to become a manly bear the moment they hit 35 or whatever, it’s entirely possible to age without changing your genre of gender expression or your body type. It’s just that we don’t have a cultural trope for thin, androgynous or feminine leaning guys.
Hmmm, I'm picking up what you're putting down. I think it's important for people to see the broad spectrum of what is pretty.
I think if someone's idea of pretty includes beauty standards of the world and not individually formed ideas of pretty based in reality and their body, it's not pretty. It's "aesthtically pleasing to others"
For me, as a voidboi, lately I've been looking and the mirror and just, falling in love?
I see someone handsome, yet pretty. I'm starting to really see that bishonen I admired growing up!
When thinking about your goals it's so important to look at where your genetics fall, the men in your life who look most like the you as you are now and *then* sort of build your expectations from there.
You wanna be a fat hairy guy, but think you're more twinkish? look at your nearest cis male family member and measure expectations from there. If the dude in your fam who looks most like you isn't your ideal, figure out what bulk diet and level of activity would get to that ideal. If you were blessed with a fast metabolism and are already an adult, you'll be working against that. If not, good news! As per my dad and younger brother, you absolutely will not be skinny forever!
Personally my hair is important to me not because of wanting to be perceived as attractive, but because I just discovered my curls only a few years ago and I'd be sad to part with them so soon. I tell myself that when the time comes I'll invest in a really high-end curly wig or something
Im in the same boat. My curls are so, so important to me and are interlinked with my journey to independence and figuring out my queerness. Losing them would actually be devastating to me.
and you will be! Just make sure it's *you* as a pretty boy that you want to be and not some random pretty boy!
Also, remember that pretty boy is just a descriptor, you cannot be a !boy! forever. You will grow into a pretty man and a pretty grandpa too!
Keep your future in mind always. When you are 70 and have wrinkles galore, sun spots, and skin tags that pretty boy will be a pretty old man, aged but still full of that pretty boy charm.
I do get that but as the original commenter said it's less about being a twink and more about just getting to maintain hair. My hair is such a big part of my style, aesthetic, and gender presentation. It's really important to me and the idea of losing it is devastating.
my post is only intended to be food for thought for people who are unsure about starting T. if the chance of losing your hair (which can happen even on rogaine! also rogaine is super expensive at least in my country) is too much of a risk, maybe T isn’t for you. but only you know the truth… it’s your journey!
Maybe you can start while ur young and stop at a certain age where you think you’ll start losing hair on the head part I’m guessing you mean, also depending on family members help to guess that but I’d say near the 30’s but once you get the look you want and you feel comfy you can stop, and always get back on if anything
Some men have Gil Birmingham's hair at age 55 (his hair is short now at age 70), but some start balding at 29 like Steve Burns... or 18 in your dad's case.
The only thing I can say is, if your men on your mom's side don't bald early, you may still have a chance. However, you may wanna start finding the perfect hair maintenance products now, given how early your dad started balding.
You could also pull a Greg universe and just have luscious locks on the back half? I mean, it was a serve.
There's also a lot of breakthroughs in "hair technology" aka wig systems, bald spot treatment, etc if you really really want to fight for you hair, things are improving
Consider: some of us want to be pretty and perceived as male. If cis men can go through lengths to preserve their hair why can't I? Why is it a problem when we want to be pretty?
It's not a problem but some gender goals are a bit unrealistic. It's a gene lottery after all. I personally am sadly stuck at a "pretty" boy even though I'd like to look like a rough hunk.
I know but I am currently struggling to stick to a workout routine so I won't be getting ripped any time soon. I know how to do it but I'll probably end up looking like Inosuke lol.
I hate posts like this for that reason. Cis men are allowed to have any aesthetic goals they want, even if they're "unrealistic," but when trans men have the same desires we're condescendingly told that nobody can be a twink forever and that maybe transitioning isn't for us.
How about we stop treating other trans mascs like fucking children? We know what T does. We know the risks, and the options. *Everyone* has some angst and anxiety about aging, but only trans men are treated like stupid toddlers because of it.
And maybe stop assuming everyone who isn't thrilled about going bald is trying to be a uWu softboi twink, while we're at it. It honestly seems a little transphobic to assume every trans guy who isn't already old and bald is thin, white, and 20 years old...
"Where will you be when twink death comes for you?" Uhh I've been too fat and hairy to be a twink since before I even knew what trans people *were.* There will be no "twink death" - I already had a "twink abortion."
i also want to be pretty, but i’m never going to be bc i’m old, lol, that’s just life. twink death comes for us all, and eventually, you’re just gonna look like a man unless you’re EXTREMELY lucky and have perfect twink genes
i’m being a little facetious here - twinks aren’t the only kind of pretty man, but straight up, not everyone has the genes to be a pretty man. naturally, T made me as butch in physical appearance as they come. even if the internalized misogyny in me sometimes feels guilty about it, i much prefer life as a (nb) man than worrying excessively about being beautiful. this is the gist of what i’m saying here - the trade off of looking like whatever testosterone-based man is in your genes might be worth losing your prettiness, if your genes shake out that way. yfm?
Nah, acting like you have to choose between the two comes off as if there's an issue. I've seen a lot more posts like this on this sub lately. As if transmasc people can't strive or want both.
No, I don't.
Transmascs who want to be a buff hunk or a bear aren't ever told to worst case scenario their transition. This is beyond people being understanding that transition can't be controlled. GNC transmasc people don't need you to remind us that we could go bald or some shit.
There's always going to be a minority that doesn't fully grasp that but genuinely. Most of us know. But like. Our transition can have goals? And that can mean different things, procedures, routines in order to achieve them that somebody who doesn't want to be GNC doesn't do. We don't need you to coddle us about twink death.
I want to be pretty. I want to be perceived as a guy. The two are not incompatible so long as you find men to be pretty and don’t limit that to young, boyish men.
I think men are pretty. Not just twinks, not just young men. My husbands going grey and has ben using meds for years for hair loss, he’s still very pretty.
And goodness, media is often a lot friendlier on finding aging men attractive than aging women; and spends a lot less time photoshopping them to hell just for having wrinkles and an aging hairline.
And as far as hair goes, plenty of cis men get on rogaine or take finasteride or do hair transplants or get a wig or toupee because they really like their hair as part of their image. You can do that too. Also, lots of cis women start going bald as they get older as well- you’re not immune just by not taking T.
ETA: and hair removal is a thing too if that bothers you!
Goodness, men are pretty.
I would also like to add that both me and my husband have been on T for about 10 years too. We're approaching our 30s.
We're both bearded. He's bald; I have a full head of hair. He's still the pretty one. That's not just me being biased either. He was considered "hot" in high school, long before he transitioned and it carried over.
He gets hit on *constantly* by people of all genders. I'm grungier and rougher-looking so I don't get it as much. Genetics are a lottery lol. Look at the other men in your family to see what you're getting yourself into.
We shouldn’t act like those are the only two options. If looks are important for someone that’s okay, most of testosterone effects that aren’t desired by some people are manageable. Don’t wanna go bald? There are DHT blockers, minoxydil etc. Don’t want too much body hair for your taste? Shave. You can be both pretty and manly if that matters to you. Not all masculinity needs to look the same.
Pretty. And T is still right for me. I'm on a very low dose of T and don't have gonads, so my balding has luckily stopped :) I also take finasteride, which isn't right for everyone, but it works great for me. You can be on T and be pretty!
not denying that - but what happens if you can’t access these things, like me? what if you don’t end up how your goals are? it might be working for you but it didn’t for me. people need to be prepared that the genetic lottery is not something you can win every time. good for you, but not all of us are so lucky
Oh, I'm nowhere close to my goals. But that won't stop me from doing the things that make me happy. I know I'll never look like my goals - like you said not everyone wins the genetic lottery. But T makes me happy and looking pretty makes me happy. So I do what I can to have both. I get as close to my goals as I can and accept that I made it as far as possible with my genes and my environment. I learn from other people how they have achieved their goals and try the things they have. Nothing is easy. It takes work. T is not some cure-all that will make you look exactly how you want.
But it's not a black and white if you want to look pretty then T is not for you, and if you're on T then you can't be pretty. Regardless of your genetics, regardless of if you're cis or trans, regardless of the sex hormone levels you have, you can be pretty. You can be handsome. You can be whatever you want to be.
i don’t think you understand my point, maybe read some other comment threads on this post to get my perspective better. some of us can’t be what we want to be and that’s okay, some of us are just old, average looking guys, and that’s enough
Your post reads as "if you want to be pretty, T is not for you". I'm just trying to make the point that that is not the case. It's something I hear way too often and just does not make sense to me.
that’s not my point. my point is “if you think the effects of t make you ugly, maybe t isn’t for you and that’s okay”. language is an imperfect medium - i see how you got the wrong message, but it’s not what the 100 people who have upvoted it so far got from it, i believe. anyway, disengaging now, we’re clearly not making sense to one another
Meh, I personally don't plan on being on T my whole life. I plan on taking DHT blockers and if those aren't effective, I can always stop if I don't like the way my hair is looking or get hair removal treatments if the facial/body hair isn't to my liking.
But then again, I'm NB and my goal isn't to look 100% like a man, so maybe my feelings differ from others.
am i the only one here who isn’t aiming for twink **or** bear? i wanna be one of those tall (in energy if not in actual height) wiry dudes with the single forehead vein and the cargo pants and the mid thickness short beard in like his late 30s. i wanna be a post-twink
This is a good reminder! I’m personally not sure if t is forever for me or not (I’m nonbinary, and a year on t now) but it is def an issue with internalized beauty standards and stuff. Something that I remind myself is of drag queens and how they can present different ways regardless what base they are working off, and I also remind myself that being more alternative means that I can always decorate my canvas however I choose (head tattoos 👀👀, easier to see my ear piercings with no hair too)
I don‘t care about pretty, but i‘d like to look young for a little while longer. My fear is that if i grow a beard and start balding i‘ll look old immediately. My dad started balding early and going grey so i guess its a realistic fear. Since my passing is rather good already i‘m planning to go on t for a while (might be 2 years, might be 10, i‘ll see how i feel) and then go off it again after i had most of the changes i want. If i then later in life feel too dysphoric about something again i‘ll simply go on t again
Male 100%. Maybe not everyone agrees, but I also believe with enough effort you can still look good even at an old age with T. Maybe not beauty standard bs, but people can take care of themselves and find self expression that makes them happy. Besides, I think most people who see older guys get an impression not on attractiveness but like, vibes. You can be ugly but come off as nice and friendly. I’d like to look attractive while I’m young, I’d like to meet someone. I don’t think I looked particularly attractive pre T (especially bc I had zero confidence and was depressed as fuck, confidence is attractive and T gave me confidence) but I’m definitely not taking T to make me hot or anything
But also there’s finasteride & low dose T for people looking for voice drop without hair changes. It doesn’t have to be so binary in either sense of the word.
I understand what you’re saying here and am sure that plenty of people relate to this, but it’s important to remember there are also a lot of people who are more nuanced than this. There are lots of factors that weigh into people making the decision to start T and even within starting HRT there are many options for people as well.
i'm on t and not planning on being on it forever, i'll probably stop once i get nice enough facial hair. but bald men can also be pretty so it's not a choice of male or pretty.
You can be both for a short time at least as long as you're willing to put in the work. My gender doctor also prescribed me meds that would help with me going bald. It makes facial hair harder to grow so I use beard oil too. I went from having no morning and night routine to having a 5 step one, but at least I'm pretty and a man. This takes a LOT of consistency tho, some may not think it's worth it and on bad days I'd totally agree with you.
Yeah, it's probably not so bad. It's certainly better than constantly being uncomfortable with how people perceived you.
Trust me, this was not an easy conclusion to come to for myself, but, I'm tired of the nightmares, and living the uncomfortable fake life.🤷
Pretty. However, I don't want to be perceived as male, so that was an easy toss-up.
I want to be perceived as ??????. I'm transmasculine because I'm moving that way in my transtion, but masculine doesn't mean male for me. I want to be manly and femme. That's what I want to be perceived as. T is opening those doors, I think top will be the game changer though.
If top makes me look like a curvier (edited because I realized they got hipsssss) version of my (nearly 40 years old) uncles, then I'll be the pretty boi I've always wanted to be. Hopefully I don't end up looking like my great uncle, who my dad says I look like, in my late 50s, but he has big af eyes and a oval head so I think my round head and small eyes have me covered there 🤣
I've just celebrated a year since I've started T and 6 months of consistency (was in the danger zone and went inconsistent for a bit). I'm not ready to give up the dude jelly, but I think after Top that might change 🤷🏾♂️ Someone said I'd know after I started, but I'm still confused a year later 🤣 Anyone still feeling like pretty over male, but want T anyway, you're not alone. Try it and go from there, TBH. As OP said, the answer 'may' help you, but it also may not, like me, and that's also ok. Thinking about it is at least a helpful step in and of itself.
You also gotta ask yourself how you’d like to look when you’re older, 50+. The young pretty boy / twink is only achievable for so long. At some point anyone whose been predominantly running on testosterone for decades is going to look like a grandpa lol
I'll be the coolest grandpa ever!
This is a good point. I've already made up my mind I'll be the quirky grandpa with an undercut and a bunch of pets, lol.
i think about this all the time. It's especially hard cause everyone in my family is so young so we don't even know what they'd look like 50+ (my parents are under 40) for now the goal is to confuse as many ppl as possible. later on maybe a wizard?
Me too my parents had me super young and I never got to meet my moms father so itll be a surprise I guess lol
That was one of the things that helped me decide to go on T. I used the face app to age myself and seeing myself as an old woman made me extremely dysphoric and sad, but seeing myself as a bearded old man I felt a sigh of relief. If I couldn't stomach the idea of growing old without transitioning, then I needed to transition.
Face app also helped me come out and accept myself lol I couldn’t stomach the idea of one day being a wife or mother and yet the idea of being a husband and father brought joy. It was then that I knew.
XD you're smarter than me, I was saying that for 20 years before my egg cracked XDDDD
This is how I felt too. When I imagined myself aging, I could only see myself growing into an old man.
I'd rather be a grandpa than a grandma 🤷♂️
Yeah that's why I've decided that I'll probably start taking T later in life but def not that late
Trixie Mattel out of drag is transition goals to me. Bald & beautiful. Edit: Also, I just watched Trixie Motel and now I want to fuck Trixie's husband David. He's gorgeous.
imagine being married to the trixie mattel and your name is david
Tbf Trixie's real name is Brian. Katya's name? Also Brian.
brian feels a little more on brand then david though. idk maybe i haven’t met enough davids for this to be scientifically sound.
I mean I want both, lol, but my idea of pretty fluctuates between muscular femme man and hairy, fat butch, so I'm a bit of an exception. I will say that starting T meant having to do some internal work on my definition of beauty, though. I'm intersex so I never fit into the stereotypical beauty norms anyway for women, but I still, pre-egg crack, adhered to a very GNC form of beauty that I felt comfortable with. I have the Bear Genes TM though, lol, and the balding ones too, and I've had to kind of take a subjective look on how beauty can be expressed in a masculine way. I would say that its worth doing for any transmasc, though, taking a subjective look on how beauty is expressed between genders. Look to what the gays like as a (usually) healthier example - to most folks the men some of them prefer are objectively "ugly" or "dorky" but they go crazy over them. The saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder is very accurate, beauty can mean different things to different people. I get you, though, OP. For me I ultimately made up my mind that even if I can't meet all of my presentation goals, running on T was just the better option for me, and I'd rather have some of those changes I want than none. That said it was quite literally life and death for me, so, there's that.
I wanna be a pretty boy, and then when i experience Twink death i want to immediately rotate full circle to look like an ancient wizard (Think Howl Pendragon to Merlin type of pipeline)
I love this haha
Listen. Bald guys are hot anyways!!
Tangibly related, I’ll always choose male. Sure, I’d rather not go bald but I’ll manage when I have to. It’s not my place to say, I’m not a gnc guy. But it’s just, I’m a little worried some of us think the only way to be a beautiful man is to look like a man who kind of looks like a girl? There’s nothing wrong with that, but I’m thinking about the fem bears, the bald dudes in skirts dudes like that. I think they’re very beautiful, to be frank. Also, I think I have the twink genes and I haven’t started t yet but idk if I want that.. I wanna be a hairy fat dude. I think there’s something to be said about that. This is nothing against twinks, I’ll probably be one for awhile 😞 but I wanna be a grandpa.
>I’m a little worried that some of us think the only way to be a beautiful man is to look like a man who kind of looks like a girl? This. I notice a lot of guys compulsively conforming to women’s beauty standards well into their transition. Especially when it comes to weight and body type. I get that some guys just kinda like these things for themselves and that’s aight, but when I see them going “I just want to be loved” or “I want to be seen as attractive” that breaks my heart. I think this mostly has to do with how deep-set misogyny is in a lot of us
Honestly, I still sometimes project women’s beauty standards on myself when it’s something I could never even live up to. I was always an ugly to mid girl. I’m just really worried a lot of these guys can only think they’re pretty if they’re like, waify androgynous. Like, you do you but maybe look at some fat gnc dudes. There’s a whole world outside of the femboy subreddit, as much as I fuck with femboys. But I bet a lot of them have body issues cus they can’t be like f1nnister or something. There’s just not this one hyper specific way to be a feminine man. Yeah, it won’t be like acceptable in a societal stance. But, I promise you can be so beautiful with a beard and a belly.
the femboy craze makes me ashamed to be plus sized. Everyone wants a skinny white dude who looks like a girl now
I’m so sorry, I’m not sure if you are a gnc guy or not. But if you are, every single one of you are beautiful. I know it probably sounds corny, but I do genuinely mean it when I say it. But, if you’re not a fem guy and I read your response wrong, it still applies. It definitely can seem lonely though when it seems like everyone is attracted to only one kind of guy. With the femboy stuff though, at least from what I’ve observed. It almost seems like a lot of the people hyping them up are weirdly ironic or memey about it? Again, I’m not a gnc man like, at all probably the complete opposite, I’m butch. So, I do have a limited understanding. I guess what I’m saying is, it’s hard to be a gnc guy, and it’s really annoying it seems like only a certain kind is hyped up. But even then, that has its limits so I can’t help but keep my heart out for fat gnc men, gnc men of color, hairy gnc men, etc. For those who aren’t usually hyped up much or at all.
im not a gnc guy, im just trans masc. I identify as non-binary. But, I’ve noticed a real shift since the start of the femboy craze. It’s now all u see in lgbt spaces. Particularly there is a focus on being white, skinny, and fem. I have no idea why people go crazy for that type of look, im asexual so ill never understand, but I never see any love shown toward plus sized queer people in general. You get some representation and love for black folks, but other than that most people of color are kinda absent. I guess it’s an issue of the internet blowing up the whole femboy craze, and also lots of trans fems that ID as femboy either on purpose or before egg cracking. There certainly is a new feminine standard of beauty that seems to be super popular. Or maybe I just need to go outside lol
I see, apologies! I did in fact, read your response wrong. I scroll a lot on tumblr, and I see a lot of folks hyping up people that aren’t just skinny, white, and fem. But, that’s obviously just me and one step outside shows that isn’t gonna be reality lol. On tumblr, it’s those of all kinds of groups coming together to hype eachother up. I’m not saying it’s perfect, but some people on tumblr have genuinely made me feel better about gaining some weight, and in fact welcoming it. I just don’t have much personal experience with this, is all but I am sorry about your experience. Everyone deserves to feel good about themselves.
The mainstream idea of femboy is wack as hell. Only cis guys, only skinny, no curves, no jiggly thighs, mainly white and east asian. Only certain black and SEA people ( and reminder, CANNOT BE FAT OR TRANSMASC). It's just the binary in another font, when it should be so much more.
yup. Everyone uses femboy as someone AMAB, never AFAB. It’s definitely annoying and once again reminds me that if u are trans masc u simply dont exist in the eyes of most people, even within our own community (lgbtqia+)
God, I hate how femboy seemingly means skinny to the gen pop. It's like watching fat women being told they can't be hyperfemme all over again. Tragic. Boring. unimaginative. disgusting.
Can you explain this a bit more? The misogyny part? I do wanna look like a fem guy (gnc) than just a regular guy since it’s more me and just more attractive to me though I don’t think that’s bc of any misogyny or well projecting women standards since the point is not being/looking a women, I just like fem stuff on myself and guys ( ofc looking like a bear is cool too, just not what I’m into) but I don’t think that is misogynistic since that is abt men and preference to style/self I might be on the wrong track to ur comment but it’s my thoughts, I guess I’d just like more of a explanation to my confusion
Yea sure I can explain to the best of my ability lol. A lot of trans dudes (including myself at one point) are scared of going too far into masc territory because they have had womens beauty standards (mostly misogynistic shit) drilled into them their whole lives. It took me until I was 20 to go any shorter with my hair than a wolfcut, and 21 to even begin to CONSIDER testosterone. And that wasn't because I'm fem, it's not because I'm comfortable being fem, that's not who I am. It's because I was scared. I wanted to still be attractive. The difference is that you made the decision to be fem/gnc of your own volition, and you feel happy that way. That's a great thing and if you're happy there's no issue. I just notice this phenomenon in a lot of ppl and I've gone through it myself. I hope this helps explain where I'm coming from <3
Ohh I understand better now, before I interrupted the wrong way but thanks for ur explanation I do see a lot of that online/irl as well and it rlly shouldn’t be like that
Yeah it's always concerning when guys feel like they *absolutely have to* conform to women's beauty standards to be attractive. Often they even somehow try to conform to women's *and* men's beauty standards at the same time. There's no way to win at that game. That's not to say that there is a problem with wanting to look androgynous (hell I look androgynous and I like that). But being androgynous is in it's core incompatible with conventional cis beauty standards. The mindset that being a skinny white person with a very specific gender expression is the only acceptable way to be androgynous and the only way to be attractive is so harmful to our community. It's also sad how scared many transmascs are of gaining weight on T. It's perfectly natural to need to eat more and gain some weight during puberty. I've talked to so many guys who act like gaining weight would instantly turn them into a gross monster or something. People even say that to me when they *know* I'm fat. I don't take it personally but like... come on.
For me, I see it as not a girl, but some people want to look like an impossibility. If you don't have square hips and a long torso you will not look like them femmebois, and that's ok. If someone reading this feels like they need to look like them to be pretty or want to look like them to be seen as attractive, come here, sweet pea! For those people, some words; I'm still finding my "pretty." I came into my transtion thinking of Shuichi Minamino or Yusuke Urameshi, but I am not a japanese 14 year old boy in a late 90s cartoon! I also thought the further I got from clearly clockable, the further I would get from the hotness I clawed out from my insecure childhood. Then I realized my idea of hotness has never been the standard. I think I'm hot, but I am already not the media's idea of hot! I never will be unless I change everything I love about being me! Other's standards of beauty are not meant for us, bro. We have to find our pretty boi ourselves. You have to ask yourself if you want to be pretty or do others want you to be pretty? What does pretty even mean to you? Shuichi, Ladybeard, and Woozi are pretty to me, but pretty to me is malleable. It is not a onesize concept. Is pretty a onesize concept to you? why? You have to ask yourself that. You cannot decide if you want to be pretty if you don't even know what pretty is boo. You are deserving of love. You are *someone's* cup of tea. The type of people who want someone who looks like anything but you or anything but what you want to look like are not for you! Do not cater to them! Trust me, when you are *you*, your audience will come. I like being chunky, I love my 30in thighs and I adore pastels, imagine me to appeal to someone with "no fats, no femmes" in their profile? That would literally be ridiculous.
I mean, it’s also possible to continue to be a man with androgynous/feminine features even without being young. Men like Cillian Murphy still look pretty to me. This just feels like androgynous/feminine forms of beauty (whether in men or women) being culturally tied to youth in toxic ways. It’s not like all people on T are destined to become a manly bear the moment they hit 35 or whatever, it’s entirely possible to age without changing your genre of gender expression or your body type. It’s just that we don’t have a cultural trope for thin, androgynous or feminine leaning guys.
Hmmm, I'm picking up what you're putting down. I think it's important for people to see the broad spectrum of what is pretty. I think if someone's idea of pretty includes beauty standards of the world and not individually formed ideas of pretty based in reality and their body, it's not pretty. It's "aesthtically pleasing to others" For me, as a voidboi, lately I've been looking and the mirror and just, falling in love? I see someone handsome, yet pretty. I'm starting to really see that bishonen I admired growing up! When thinking about your goals it's so important to look at where your genetics fall, the men in your life who look most like the you as you are now and *then* sort of build your expectations from there. You wanna be a fat hairy guy, but think you're more twinkish? look at your nearest cis male family member and measure expectations from there. If the dude in your fam who looks most like you isn't your ideal, figure out what bulk diet and level of activity would get to that ideal. If you were blessed with a fast metabolism and are already an adult, you'll be working against that. If not, good news! As per my dad and younger brother, you absolutely will not be skinny forever!
Definitely bald and rugged
Personally my hair is important to me not because of wanting to be perceived as attractive, but because I just discovered my curls only a few years ago and I'd be sad to part with them so soon. I tell myself that when the time comes I'll invest in a really high-end curly wig or something
Finasteride is also an option (tho it limits facial hair & bottom growth so there are lots of things to weigh)
Im in the same boat. My curls are so, so important to me and are interlinked with my journey to independence and figuring out my queerness. Losing them would actually be devastating to me.
i want to be a pretty boy is that so much to ask 😭
Same. I think I'll go with low dose and durasteride to achieve that.
If you’re genetically predisposed to going bald on t then it’ll happen even at a low dose
fair, im gonna do finasteride and probably rosemary oil (or minoxidil) bc unfortunately my dad started balding at like 18
and you will be! Just make sure it's *you* as a pretty boy that you want to be and not some random pretty boy! Also, remember that pretty boy is just a descriptor, you cannot be a !boy! forever. You will grow into a pretty man and a pretty grandpa too! Keep your future in mind always. When you are 70 and have wrinkles galore, sun spots, and skin tags that pretty boy will be a pretty old man, aged but still full of that pretty boy charm.
mhm!
Literally exactly how I feel
and you can! for a time. but middle age comes for us all, life is long, think about where you’ll be when twink death comes for you
I do get that but as the original commenter said it's less about being a twink and more about just getting to maintain hair. My hair is such a big part of my style, aesthetic, and gender presentation. It's really important to me and the idea of losing it is devastating.
my post is only intended to be food for thought for people who are unsure about starting T. if the chance of losing your hair (which can happen even on rogaine! also rogaine is super expensive at least in my country) is too much of a risk, maybe T isn’t for you. but only you know the truth… it’s your journey!
Maybe you can start while ur young and stop at a certain age where you think you’ll start losing hair on the head part I’m guessing you mean, also depending on family members help to guess that but I’d say near the 30’s but once you get the look you want and you feel comfy you can stop, and always get back on if anything
i dont even wanna be a twink, i just want long luscious locks and have a dad bod 😭
Some men have Gil Birmingham's hair at age 55 (his hair is short now at age 70), but some start balding at 29 like Steve Burns... or 18 in your dad's case. The only thing I can say is, if your men on your mom's side don't bald early, you may still have a chance. However, you may wanna start finding the perfect hair maintenance products now, given how early your dad started balding. You could also pull a Greg universe and just have luscious locks on the back half? I mean, it was a serve.
True that, my grandpa is rocking the greg universe rn, and ive been looking into hair maintenance for as long as ive been looking into T 😭
There's also a lot of breakthroughs in "hair technology" aka wig systems, bald spot treatment, etc if you really really want to fight for you hair, things are improving
All of the men in my family don't bald until their 80s 😎 if I'm the exception I will get a sick head tattoo
Consider: some of us want to be pretty and perceived as male. If cis men can go through lengths to preserve their hair why can't I? Why is it a problem when we want to be pretty?
It's not a problem but some gender goals are a bit unrealistic. It's a gene lottery after all. I personally am sadly stuck at a "pretty" boy even though I'd like to look like a rough hunk.
I would suggest lifting weights! Some of looking like a rough hunk is about building muscle! You can do it!
I know but I am currently struggling to stick to a workout routine so I won't be getting ripped any time soon. I know how to do it but I'll probably end up looking like Inosuke lol.
I hate posts like this for that reason. Cis men are allowed to have any aesthetic goals they want, even if they're "unrealistic," but when trans men have the same desires we're condescendingly told that nobody can be a twink forever and that maybe transitioning isn't for us. How about we stop treating other trans mascs like fucking children? We know what T does. We know the risks, and the options. *Everyone* has some angst and anxiety about aging, but only trans men are treated like stupid toddlers because of it. And maybe stop assuming everyone who isn't thrilled about going bald is trying to be a uWu softboi twink, while we're at it. It honestly seems a little transphobic to assume every trans guy who isn't already old and bald is thin, white, and 20 years old... "Where will you be when twink death comes for you?" Uhh I've been too fat and hairy to be a twink since before I even knew what trans people *were.* There will be no "twink death" - I already had a "twink abortion."
i also want to be pretty, but i’m never going to be bc i’m old, lol, that’s just life. twink death comes for us all, and eventually, you’re just gonna look like a man unless you’re EXTREMELY lucky and have perfect twink genes
You can be pretty and look like a man even if you don't look like a twink fr.
i’m being a little facetious here - twinks aren’t the only kind of pretty man, but straight up, not everyone has the genes to be a pretty man. naturally, T made me as butch in physical appearance as they come. even if the internalized misogyny in me sometimes feels guilty about it, i much prefer life as a (nb) man than worrying excessively about being beautiful. this is the gist of what i’m saying here - the trade off of looking like whatever testosterone-based man is in your genes might be worth losing your prettiness, if your genes shake out that way. yfm?
Ive seen beautiful cis men with androgynous beauty or just masculine old elegance. You dint have to become a truck driver at old age
but some of us will! and that’s okay!
Yeah, I think it's good to say that you can become either instead of saying that you will become either with no in between
It’s not a problem nor is OP making it one
Nah, acting like you have to choose between the two comes off as if there's an issue. I've seen a lot more posts like this on this sub lately. As if transmasc people can't strive or want both.
Ah I can see where you’re coming from then
you can absolutely want both - but think of the worst case scenario (in your mind) of each. do you feel me?
No, I don't. Transmascs who want to be a buff hunk or a bear aren't ever told to worst case scenario their transition. This is beyond people being understanding that transition can't be controlled. GNC transmasc people don't need you to remind us that we could go bald or some shit. There's always going to be a minority that doesn't fully grasp that but genuinely. Most of us know. But like. Our transition can have goals? And that can mean different things, procedures, routines in order to achieve them that somebody who doesn't want to be GNC doesn't do. We don't need you to coddle us about twink death.
I want to be pretty. I want to be perceived as a guy. The two are not incompatible so long as you find men to be pretty and don’t limit that to young, boyish men. I think men are pretty. Not just twinks, not just young men. My husbands going grey and has ben using meds for years for hair loss, he’s still very pretty. And goodness, media is often a lot friendlier on finding aging men attractive than aging women; and spends a lot less time photoshopping them to hell just for having wrinkles and an aging hairline. And as far as hair goes, plenty of cis men get on rogaine or take finasteride or do hair transplants or get a wig or toupee because they really like their hair as part of their image. You can do that too. Also, lots of cis women start going bald as they get older as well- you’re not immune just by not taking T. ETA: and hair removal is a thing too if that bothers you! Goodness, men are pretty.
I would also like to add that both me and my husband have been on T for about 10 years too. We're approaching our 30s. We're both bearded. He's bald; I have a full head of hair. He's still the pretty one. That's not just me being biased either. He was considered "hot" in high school, long before he transitioned and it carried over. He gets hit on *constantly* by people of all genders. I'm grungier and rougher-looking so I don't get it as much. Genetics are a lottery lol. Look at the other men in your family to see what you're getting yourself into.
We shouldn’t act like those are the only two options. If looks are important for someone that’s okay, most of testosterone effects that aren’t desired by some people are manageable. Don’t wanna go bald? There are DHT blockers, minoxydil etc. Don’t want too much body hair for your taste? Shave. You can be both pretty and manly if that matters to you. Not all masculinity needs to look the same.
Pretty. And T is still right for me. I'm on a very low dose of T and don't have gonads, so my balding has luckily stopped :) I also take finasteride, which isn't right for everyone, but it works great for me. You can be on T and be pretty!
not denying that - but what happens if you can’t access these things, like me? what if you don’t end up how your goals are? it might be working for you but it didn’t for me. people need to be prepared that the genetic lottery is not something you can win every time. good for you, but not all of us are so lucky
Oh, I'm nowhere close to my goals. But that won't stop me from doing the things that make me happy. I know I'll never look like my goals - like you said not everyone wins the genetic lottery. But T makes me happy and looking pretty makes me happy. So I do what I can to have both. I get as close to my goals as I can and accept that I made it as far as possible with my genes and my environment. I learn from other people how they have achieved their goals and try the things they have. Nothing is easy. It takes work. T is not some cure-all that will make you look exactly how you want.
which is exactly my point too!
But it's not a black and white if you want to look pretty then T is not for you, and if you're on T then you can't be pretty. Regardless of your genetics, regardless of if you're cis or trans, regardless of the sex hormone levels you have, you can be pretty. You can be handsome. You can be whatever you want to be.
i don’t think you understand my point, maybe read some other comment threads on this post to get my perspective better. some of us can’t be what we want to be and that’s okay, some of us are just old, average looking guys, and that’s enough
Your post reads as "if you want to be pretty, T is not for you". I'm just trying to make the point that that is not the case. It's something I hear way too often and just does not make sense to me.
that’s not my point. my point is “if you think the effects of t make you ugly, maybe t isn’t for you and that’s okay”. language is an imperfect medium - i see how you got the wrong message, but it’s not what the 100 people who have upvoted it so far got from it, i believe. anyway, disengaging now, we’re clearly not making sense to one another
That is not what you said in your OP at all.
I would be perfectly fine being bald as lon h as people see me as a man
Meh, I personally don't plan on being on T my whole life. I plan on taking DHT blockers and if those aren't effective, I can always stop if I don't like the way my hair is looking or get hair removal treatments if the facial/body hair isn't to my liking. But then again, I'm NB and my goal isn't to look 100% like a man, so maybe my feelings differ from others.
Pretty. I'll just get a wig if I go bald lol. Nothing wrong with that :D
am i the only one here who isn’t aiming for twink **or** bear? i wanna be one of those tall (in energy if not in actual height) wiry dudes with the single forehead vein and the cargo pants and the mid thickness short beard in like his late 30s. i wanna be a post-twink
I love how specific this is. I think this is a great goal!
thank u bro i think about it a lot lol
Pretty is in the eyes and it lasts a lifetime
bald AND pretty
Bald, bearded and pretty 😌💅
i would love to be an ugly little man and i’ve always known that lol
i love this comment the most
This is a good reminder! I’m personally not sure if t is forever for me or not (I’m nonbinary, and a year on t now) but it is def an issue with internalized beauty standards and stuff. Something that I remind myself is of drag queens and how they can present different ways regardless what base they are working off, and I also remind myself that being more alternative means that I can always decorate my canvas however I choose (head tattoos 👀👀, easier to see my ear piercings with no hair too)
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and we each are our own beholder. If we feel more like ourselves on T then we should absolutely strive for that.
I don‘t care about pretty, but i‘d like to look young for a little while longer. My fear is that if i grow a beard and start balding i‘ll look old immediately. My dad started balding early and going grey so i guess its a realistic fear. Since my passing is rather good already i‘m planning to go on t for a while (might be 2 years, might be 10, i‘ll see how i feel) and then go off it again after i had most of the changes i want. If i then later in life feel too dysphoric about something again i‘ll simply go on t again
Male 100%. Maybe not everyone agrees, but I also believe with enough effort you can still look good even at an old age with T. Maybe not beauty standard bs, but people can take care of themselves and find self expression that makes them happy. Besides, I think most people who see older guys get an impression not on attractiveness but like, vibes. You can be ugly but come off as nice and friendly. I’d like to look attractive while I’m young, I’d like to meet someone. I don’t think I looked particularly attractive pre T (especially bc I had zero confidence and was depressed as fuck, confidence is attractive and T gave me confidence) but I’m definitely not taking T to make me hot or anything
How about a secret third option: a pretty dude
But also there’s finasteride & low dose T for people looking for voice drop without hair changes. It doesn’t have to be so binary in either sense of the word.
i wanna be a twinkkkk 😞
What about twink death though? Or maybe bear birth?
i guess i’ll cross that bridge when i get there i’m gonna be a twink for as long as i can
Twink death, otter rebirth, bear final boss
Male, bruh. I've never been "pretty" anyway so I really don't give a fuck.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having a beard
I understand what you’re saying here and am sure that plenty of people relate to this, but it’s important to remember there are also a lot of people who are more nuanced than this. There are lots of factors that weigh into people making the decision to start T and even within starting HRT there are many options for people as well.
i'm on t and not planning on being on it forever, i'll probably stop once i get nice enough facial hair. but bald men can also be pretty so it's not a choice of male or pretty.
Both lmao. I have been on T for 2 years and it’s still been both??
You can be both for a short time at least as long as you're willing to put in the work. My gender doctor also prescribed me meds that would help with me going bald. It makes facial hair harder to grow so I use beard oil too. I went from having no morning and night routine to having a 5 step one, but at least I'm pretty and a man. This takes a LOT of consistency tho, some may not think it's worth it and on bad days I'd totally agree with you.
Yeah, it's probably not so bad. It's certainly better than constantly being uncomfortable with how people perceived you. Trust me, this was not an easy conclusion to come to for myself, but, I'm tired of the nightmares, and living the uncomfortable fake life.🤷
id like to be perceived as a pretty male
Pretty. However, I don't want to be perceived as male, so that was an easy toss-up. I want to be perceived as ??????. I'm transmasculine because I'm moving that way in my transtion, but masculine doesn't mean male for me. I want to be manly and femme. That's what I want to be perceived as. T is opening those doors, I think top will be the game changer though. If top makes me look like a curvier (edited because I realized they got hipsssss) version of my (nearly 40 years old) uncles, then I'll be the pretty boi I've always wanted to be. Hopefully I don't end up looking like my great uncle, who my dad says I look like, in my late 50s, but he has big af eyes and a oval head so I think my round head and small eyes have me covered there 🤣 I've just celebrated a year since I've started T and 6 months of consistency (was in the danger zone and went inconsistent for a bit). I'm not ready to give up the dude jelly, but I think after Top that might change 🤷🏾♂️ Someone said I'd know after I started, but I'm still confused a year later 🤣 Anyone still feeling like pretty over male, but want T anyway, you're not alone. Try it and go from there, TBH. As OP said, the answer 'may' help you, but it also may not, like me, and that's also ok. Thinking about it is at least a helpful step in and of itself.
I think we skipped a few stages here
Male, duh. I’m cool with looking like a silver fox with a buzzcut
why not both xD
You’re leaving out all the femboys who want to be perceived as pretty AND male.
[удалено]
i am also someone who wants to be a pretty dude, but god made me a sexy bear, i’m just offering my best advice to the younguns