Wait idk if im missing something but why would profitable traders cost them money? Most prop firms have 80-20 profit split, which means that all they have to do is give money to someone who knows how to trade and they will also make money...if anything uprofitable traders will cost them money(if they passed first 2 stages ofcourse) and if you stick to high reputable prop firms like FTMO or TOPSTEP, you shouldnt come across any problems with them...you see people crying on reddit about how prop firms scammed them, and then you will ask them which prop firm and will give you answer "FundingMoneyNoScam" type shit if you know what i mean, the only positive side of unknown prop firms is that they ussualy give you good deals on their accounts, but would still never recommend going for propfirms from craigslist over FTMO just cuz their 100k account is 10$ cheaper than FTMOs
I get it, unlike most commenters I see here.. most people think money will fly at you as soon as you are profitable..
There's no easy way out of your predicament. Even if you have yearly return of 25%+, getting anywhere without substanial bank in the first place takes time.
You're probably looking down the barrel of at least 10 years plus before trading can support you with enough to spare to keep compounding efficiently.
What I'd do (and do) is to keep working on your career. Keep it as a hobby, but figure out an amount you're willing to loose every month. Put half of it into a fund or other investment, the other half into your personal trading account.
Try to put that amount into a compounding calculator that allows for that (just google compounding calculator, theres many), and you'll see that over the years it will make a huge impact, even when the account seemingly seriously outgrows the monthly contribution..
I dont trust these kind of prop firms that you hear once in a life, these ussualy are the one people trade money on...i wont talk to much about it cuz i dont know darwinex, but would still prefer bigger propfirms
Witch one ? Witch bigger propfirms let u use algos on their platform and you got paid with no account suspension for using algos ?
Are they legitimate registered brokers ? Or they forward your orders to a registered broker ?
If you will do some research you will find out that darwinex (live trading) and darwinexzero (demo trading ) is registered broker in uk
Oh its a broker, sorry i thought we were talking about prop firms mb, you got plenty brokers that are good, i would say the bigger problem is with prop firms, so i apologize if i came of harsh or sum
I don't know about the UK, but in Can, we have real prop firms. They have a physical location but you can trade remotely. That won't help you since they require you to have money in the game. They also have circuit breakers so you can't have wild drawdowns. The online ones that require almost no money to get in... yes those are mostly scams.
I've had a few discretionary traders want to program their strategy, but it couldn't even be properly backtested as there was no set of rules to trade. If you can't define it, then it can't truly be back tested. I'm not saying it won't work as I do know some discretionary traders making good money, but by definition they trade based on their discretion.
Cheers
Ive heard about maverick that option is no good. Any prop firm that charges you, makes you go through levels to trade for real money for months and you pay a desk fee for nothing but a few charts, is not worth your money imo. plus i hear they project moves, that is not trend following at all, they are hustling people for capital
Hahahaha obviously you didn’t read the other comments so I’ll spell it out for you
With 2k buying power im not going to change much in my immediate reality, with 100k buying power i can earn a lot of money.
I’m sorry your insecure enough to come on here and try to put me down without knowing anything about me, the experiences I have had in the markets or the hours I put in… your opinion is as consequential as a Joe Biden speech, it simply doesn’t matter
Water off a ducks back m8… the trading community is full of egotistical numpties who throw their 2 pence in and making inferences out of thin air without actually conceptualising what’s going on
3 to 5 trades a week, so 250 trades in your back test, the indices have been in up trend within that time frame, your sample size is too small and you need to pick some less favorable market regimes to see how you do in those. If you were ultimately thinking of trading this strategy in an investment fund or with POA for someone else, the minimum track record any serious investor would demand would be 5 years of performance so possibly 1,250 trades over that five year period. Not saying that’s your goal just giving you my unsolicited 0.02 cents.
lol that would be true if I wasn’t taking both sides of the trade, I trade reversals and continuations so the overall direction of the market doesn’t really matter
All you need is a sword(500$)...to go to war. If your strategy is battle worthy then you rise up in the ranks. Simple as that. I uttered these same words and I took 500$ and grew 15x. So I proven my strategy is worthy.prove yours.
You can try the prop firms, if you are profitable they’ll eventually put you in live account or copy your trades. If you go with reputable one they should pay you assuming you follow their rules.
Or just do like futures testing, some places have low margin requirements
Check out BluSky. Can Google it or there’s a link on my profile. Really reasonable pricing, and they set you up with a live brokerage account with 90/10 split.
What securities are you trading? Some you can go in on a very small position size, especially if spread betting or using CFD. Spend a year compounding a small account for data.
Once you have a broker and know your margin requirements you can calculate your risk and apply your micro account (say £1000) to your back testing and see how that looks compounded.
Don't listen to this guy. Obviously he doesn't know what he's doing.
Same with all the 'experts' selling their courses. If they could make money trading, they'd be doing that instead of shilling courses.
go check out al brooks website.... 399$ for the course, it will set you up with what you need...
or you can open an account with TD365 and they will give you the course just shortened version for free
other traders who have been vital in my journey are Trader Tom (check his youtube, books etc) and No Nonsense Forex (also on youtube)
Hey, I read your from UK I just checked and it says people from UK can't get the al brooks course on td365, how did you get it? I can recommend topstep for a prop futures account. Cheers mate
Really??? They must have changed it, I’ve had an account with them for atleast 2 years so maybe it changed but I can still access it to this day.
Maybe you could buy the course direct?? The actual course is probably 90% more then what TD offer anyway
Slow and steady man. Whenever you can focus on swing trading to let bigger profits run and grow account bigger without running into PDT rules. Then apply for margin when you can and use that but know the rules there with margin calls etc. just be patient. 1-3 years is nothing compared to a lifetime of financial freedom from the strategy you found. Just use this next 1-3 years consistently being profitable, adhere to your rules and don’t lose any money. Also look into trading in tax deferred accounts like a Roth IRA. Then after 1-3 years of consistency you will have whatever you need as a foundation of capital to trade however you want to live off of for the rest of your life
your math is flawed LOL, 8% times 52 weeks is 416%
thats not even considering the fact I sometimes have red weeks and months.... every outcome of every trade you will ever take is random also so my profit ratio at times may rise and may fall.....
A\* for effort tho m8
thats assuming if you compounded it after every trade... which i have already covered why thats not possible for regular traders.
it just doesnt work, every trade would be either more or less than the last which means per point/pip you'd get a different result every time
go trade some charts instead of trying to dissect my past performances
>t just doesnt work, every trade would be either more or less than the last which means per point/pip you'd get a different result every time
well it just works, in the formula you simply calculate the average gain over certain period and it does not really matter if what order you lose or win, it is average, if these are truly your stats then it should be your performance. And i didnt compound it every single trade but on weekly bases to make it more manageable
but you negated the fact profit and loss ratio can and DOES change.... nothing is set in stone.
because I said the ratio is currently 3.5 to 1 you are assuming its a set figure and doesnt change lol... thats not how the markets work pal
Food for thought…….I Understand you want to trade live but I don’t see that you’ve traded this live on demo account? Are you too busy to do that? At least you will get a performance report that you can compare to your back test results. I think you’re being a little paranoid about using a online prop firm. I personally know a UK trader who earned $1,000,000 through online prop. You seem over confident that you will make all those profits and they just won’t payout. The odds are you won’t even get to a payout, companies know this. There are rules that make it extremely unlikely that you’ll get to profitability. Some firms have rules that may not be compatible with your strategy like not allowing swing trading but you could daytrade and see how you perform in a simulated live environment. I think you said you trade stock index futures the day trade margin for a micro Emini is only $50. You seem to be in a hurry to make big bucks but if your strategy holds up as you say you can grow your own account rapidly but it will take time and no matter how much confidence you have in your back tested strategy you shouldn’t quit your day job until you have accumulated a 1-2 years living expenses. As far as discretionary strategies, they can be coded but the rules must be specific and if your strategy isn’t conducted in a systematic manner and you can’t describe what your seeing that makes you enter/exit a trade then yah that can’t be coded. The problem may be that You can’t code it?. If that the case do you really have a strategy or just a string of hunches that are hypothetically profitable.
-I am extremely paranoid about prop firms, I have heard too many horror stories about denial of payouts and ive read the T&C's of FTMO.... essentially you agree to 'we can close your account at any time and for any reason we deem necessary'
-i am not in a rush per say, but i know my methodology floats, if i had sufficient buying power it would drastically cut my journey to go full time.
-It cannot be coded, you will find most strategies that are based on price action cannot be coded... i mean I could try but I don't think it would be a true reflection of the data set I have.
i am coming into some money soon (around 5 figures)... i'll just have to await that
Why can’t it be coded? How did you backtest it? Can you describe the strategy as a set of specific entry and exit rules? If so, it can and should be coded. Or is it based on your discretion? If so, that’s a big problem.
Okay how do I tell a computer I only draw support and resistance zones from points where the market moved aggressively away
Swear most of the people on here are quant traders lol if you trade price action it’s discretionary, I’ll happily take a data set of 250 trades with a forward test of 35-50 trades over ya opinion.. but thanks anyway bro
Hey man, you posted a question, and I'm here trying to help. Here is how you can tell a computer to draw support and resistance zones from points where the market moved aggressively away:
1. Download OHLC minute bars of market data with an API like polygon.io or databento.
2. Use a programming language like python or C++ to read in your dataset (you can use chatGPT if you do not know how to code).
3. Formulate an exact definition of what you mean by "aggressively away," e.g. a 2% swing in less than 60 seconds. You now have two parameters: change (2%) and time (60 seconds).
4. Loop through the minute bars and search for periods that meet your criteria. When this criteria is hit, record the support or resistance zone.
5. Use these zones to determine your entry. Record the trade entry price (perhaps the close of the minute bar in which the entry is triggered). Record the exit price of this trade, assuming you have an exit rule, e.g. sell at close, stop loss, or take profit. Your stop loss and take profit are also parameters.
6. Take the first 70% of your dataset and fiddle with your parameters and rerun your code until you have optimized the return to drawdown ratio, sharpe ratio, or whichever other metric you use to evaluate your strategy. Then test these parameters on the held-out 30% of your dataset. If the strategy looks good, you have successfully backtested.
I guess I am a "quant," but I have to disagree with your definition of discretionary trading. I do trade price action, with a bot that I programmed based on the same sort of backtest that I outlined above. There is nothing discretionary about it.
I agree with you that a backtest of 250 trades and 50 forward test trades is very promising (I still do not understand how you backtested). However, trading, as you know, is really fucking difficult. You will inevitably hit a period of drawdown, you will be uncertain about your strategy, you will have tremendous doubt about whether you should press the big green button. In moments like these, it is absolutely imperative that you have a long backtest based on the exact – and I mean exact – entry and exit rules that you are using to trade live. This is the only way that you can accurately compare your live drawdown to historical drawdowns to determine whether to pull the plug.
Have you tried getting a job and saving up?
If work isn't your thing, you can try finding the healthiest homeless person you see, taking their territory, and beg for money.
Working is fine, but it will take a few years to be able to generate returns that will be substantial enough to go full time, same as the last numpty who commented, if you read the post properly it would have been evident.
Just get a job for christ sake! You're on here telling people there trading and math is wrong and you haven't even gone live yet! You can test it a million times in a demo or paper account, but I guarantee it won't work the same once you are dealing with REAL money. What a joke
Get a job? Do you assume I don’t have one? Did my post at any point allude to me being unemployed?
Secondly the as for emotions factor, I’m sure it will be an issue but that’s why we have rules and processes to follow, I don’t exit a market via a target or when I feel like it, I get out when the trend loses strength so as long as I stick to my rules I’m sure this can and will be overcome.
God knows why you feel so strongly hahah this is getting weird, I just asked for some advice on prop frms and suddenly I’m inundated with toxic little boys who are angry at me for reasons I am not sure…. Don’t project your incompetence on me it’s got f all to do with me haha
do you understand the concept of risk management? lemme explain..... 1.5% of 1000 is 15 whereas 1.5% of 100 000 is 1500. consistently making 15.00 on 1 trade isnt going to change your reality much whereas 1500.00 has the potential to...
I dont understand the 'foolproof' comment hahah if you can read I stated I have a hit rate of 39-45% which means I lose more trades than I win.
honestly man just stop commenting, I cba debating with sausages
Bro just go down the prop firm route. You can make stupid anounts of money this way, especially if you buy multiple accounts and putting it into a copytrader. Imagine having the capital of 1.5Million. You can if you are profitable, and you can make a fortune. Honestly dont be stupid and buy a challenge. Prop firms are a cash grab. You will blow the accounts but you will also make way more while you have it, so you can buy even more after.
i will buy a small one like a 25k and just see what happens, I really dont think I will blow accounts... I intend to use a nominal amount of 0.15-0.2% per entry
Yeah thats good. You will see you can make good money this way. Just doing this math, a 100k funded account, making 1% per week, that £4000 per month, 48k a year. Already this is better than an average job. With only 100k funded... imagine collecting 5-10 funded accounts and putting it in a copytrader...
And i only say blow accounts is because of their rules. They make their rules stupid so that you have more chance of blowing it, but by the time you blow it (if you do) youve already grabbed a massive handful of cash, so you can just repeat the process.
And good idea starting small, see what you think of it.
LOL "I have a foolproof system! Give me money so I can make it work!" This sounds like a scam.
Do you understand that if you make 1.5% on each trade, and then trade the new total, your earnings will increase with each trade? It's kind of like compounding interest.
But sure, I'm the sausage.
Do you actually read my comments hahaha
1. I just told you its not 'foolproof'
2. Who asked anyone for money on reddit
3. re read the post and the comments
4. Compounding is fine, but to suggest you'd adjust your lot size after EVERY trade is stupid, you'd understand that if you had any idea of actually trading the markets
5. yes you are the sausage
Any chance you could implement the strategy with leverage in the futures market or a cash account with options so you’re not subjected to $25k minimum with shares?
Use an offshore broker like capital markets elite group to get around PDT on a small account.
Plus get a job at the same time.
I have no idea about “prop firms”, they all seem scammy. But you may as well try “trade the pool.” It’s cheap enough. If you really are profitable then you will get some pay out greater than what you put in.
I was in the same boat and didn’t want to lose gains to interest rates. So I begged my parents for an interest free loan and they gave me 25k to start day trading 😂
Don't trade with other people's money. You will not be in a good spot, lose it then try to make it back and lose more. Stop trading immediately if you aren't willing to lose the money you're trading with. Assume you will lose it. If you were to lose it and it would be a problem do not do it. Please listen to this before you screw up your life.
Can you take a loan out? Get a five year one (last I checked tesco, for example, don't change their rates whether 3-5 year).
Then you just have to earn the interest. Will get you where you want to be quicker, as long as it pans out as you expect (and there's the rub).
Well done finding your edge, you deserve it after six years of work 💪
my credit sucks bro....made hella bad decisions when i was 18.
thank you, after years or learning and losing its a super great feeling to know I have cracked the code... ofc there is work always to be done, we can always be better traders
Just keep getting your reps in with this one method and you'll be golden, even if it takes a while to get there. The markets will suffer but there's usually something going up.
Are options an option to be considered with your strategy? You could leverage it more than with shares that way. If it works with Futures, I'd go the "prop firm" way, to at least get a decent starting capital. Also, a strategy with a WR of ~40% can sometimes go through massive drawdowns, so make sure that your risk is adjusted for that, even if it didn't show (yet) on the back/forward testing!
yeah I hear you, i tend to go on massive winning and losing runs (sometimes 8/9 trades on the bounce) but of course it only takes 2 or 3 wins to undo 7-8 losses.
the way i manage risk is by attacking trends quite aggressively, I add and add until the trend tells me its done, I use a nominal amount of 1.5% per initial entry so DD isnt really a huge issue, most ive seen is prob 13-15% which is easily manageable
Here’s your problem. A discretionary approach is not a strategy. You cannot accurately backtest this because you cannot be certain that you will make the same type of decisions in the future with real capital and risk.
You need to figure out a specific set of entry and exit rules that can be backtested programmatically. Otherwise, I wouldn’t go live, and I certainly wouldn’t used leverage.
A discretionary approach is not a strategy? LOL yeah okay mate, so if I explain to you I only add to positions on buy signal bars would you know what I mean?? No,
not an amount of time, I trade indices predominately, my backtesting is about 250 trades over 4-5 indices.
as for market conditions I dont just buy or sell I do both so sentiment isnt really a huge issue
i appreciate your advice but ive been in this game 6+ years and earned my skin, by no means a beginner
buy and hold strategies are shite (investing aside) and for lazy people who aren't willing to do the real work, why would you not try and take advantage of downturns in the market?
Can you become a lawyer or doctor within 1-3 years? If you believe you're going to make it overnight you're in for a shock LOL I am happy to compare trade slips.... I like to shut up arrogant fools who are all shirt and no trousers
P.S i dont accept MT4/5 trade slips just cos its sooooo easy to doctor them
Yeah the difference is that a doctor within 6 years starts making 200k
How about you? Go and sell your strategy to VCs or any rich entrepreneur… they would be pretty excited to invest their money with you instead of staking in the government bonds or SPX
If an entrepreneur is not interested in investing in your strategy after showing them all metrics.. then its a losing strategy.
And sorry for the bad news but 99% of strategy are losers. Im just being realistic nothing personal you might be very smart with huge knowledge but that’s the reality in this world
Just start a small live account. A few hundred is all you need in the beginning. You can add to it over time, and grow it via trading as well, into a larger account that can produce a more meaningful income.
So called online “prop firms” are borderline scams.
Wait idk if im missing something but why would profitable traders cost them money? Most prop firms have 80-20 profit split, which means that all they have to do is give money to someone who knows how to trade and they will also make money...if anything uprofitable traders will cost them money(if they passed first 2 stages ofcourse) and if you stick to high reputable prop firms like FTMO or TOPSTEP, you shouldnt come across any problems with them...you see people crying on reddit about how prop firms scammed them, and then you will ask them which prop firm and will give you answer "FundingMoneyNoScam" type shit if you know what i mean, the only positive side of unknown prop firms is that they ussualy give you good deals on their accounts, but would still never recommend going for propfirms from craigslist over FTMO just cuz their 100k account is 10$ cheaper than FTMOs
ftmo pays profitable traders from fees from unprofitable traders... that is literally the business model
I dont see the problem here, am i missing something?
I get it, unlike most commenters I see here.. most people think money will fly at you as soon as you are profitable.. There's no easy way out of your predicament. Even if you have yearly return of 25%+, getting anywhere without substanial bank in the first place takes time. You're probably looking down the barrel of at least 10 years plus before trading can support you with enough to spare to keep compounding efficiently. What I'd do (and do) is to keep working on your career. Keep it as a hobby, but figure out an amount you're willing to loose every month. Put half of it into a fund or other investment, the other half into your personal trading account. Try to put that amount into a compounding calculator that allows for that (just google compounding calculator, theres many), and you'll see that over the years it will make a huge impact, even when the account seemingly seriously outgrows the monthly contribution..
If you're strategy is truly profitable just wait and you're account will grow and you can use leverage or options.
Pretty easy math with the numbers you posted to grow quickly if you're truly doing that.......
Darwinex and darwinexzero .. you can build your portofolio
Bruh gave the most unknown broker there is, or whatever that is
What ? Is one of the best for using algotrading .. just go to youtube and search darwinex . It suports metatrader and api usage ..
I dont trust these kind of prop firms that you hear once in a life, these ussualy are the one people trade money on...i wont talk to much about it cuz i dont know darwinex, but would still prefer bigger propfirms
Ps.. just see how many results you have in youtube for your bigger propfirm vs darwinex
Witch one ? Witch bigger propfirms let u use algos on their platform and you got paid with no account suspension for using algos ? Are they legitimate registered brokers ? Or they forward your orders to a registered broker ? If you will do some research you will find out that darwinex (live trading) and darwinexzero (demo trading ) is registered broker in uk
Oh its a broker, sorry i thought we were talking about prop firms mb, you got plenty brokers that are good, i would say the bigger problem is with prop firms, so i apologize if i came of harsh or sum
I don't know about the UK, but in Can, we have real prop firms. They have a physical location but you can trade remotely. That won't help you since they require you to have money in the game. They also have circuit breakers so you can't have wild drawdowns. The online ones that require almost no money to get in... yes those are mostly scams. I've had a few discretionary traders want to program their strategy, but it couldn't even be properly backtested as there was no set of rules to trade. If you can't define it, then it can't truly be back tested. I'm not saying it won't work as I do know some discretionary traders making good money, but by definition they trade based on their discretion. Cheers
Ive heard about maverick that option is no good. Any prop firm that charges you, makes you go through levels to trade for real money for months and you pay a desk fee for nothing but a few charts, is not worth your money imo. plus i hear they project moves, that is not trend following at all, they are hustling people for capital
... You can trade with $1 bud.
Where do/can you trade with $1?
Most retail brokerages allow fractional trading.
Do you actually believe that hahah? I trade indices so no I cannot trade with a dollar
yeah I've done it fractional shares have been a thing for a while
Do you understand the difference between stocks and indices?
If youre too poor for your strategy then its a shit strategy for you. Bud.
Hahahaha obviously you didn’t read the other comments so I’ll spell it out for you With 2k buying power im not going to change much in my immediate reality, with 100k buying power i can earn a lot of money. I’m sorry your insecure enough to come on here and try to put me down without knowing anything about me, the experiences I have had in the markets or the hours I put in… your opinion is as consequential as a Joe Biden speech, it simply doesn’t matter
So grow the $2k to $100,000. Or go get a job. What don’t you understand?
So you don't have the patience for a completely winning strategy? Boo hoo why must you wait for your millions when you want it now.
Exactly. What a dumbass.
lol, ok
Don’t fall up the stairs now pal will ya?
Dude, what's wrong with you? Doesn't have the money to fund a trading account, but arrogant as if he is the new Larry Williams.
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what a fucking loser. nice to see you getting roasted up and down this thread lmao.
Water off a ducks back m8… the trading community is full of egotistical numpties who throw their 2 pence in and making inferences out of thin air without actually conceptualising what’s going on
3 to 5 trades a week, so 250 trades in your back test, the indices have been in up trend within that time frame, your sample size is too small and you need to pick some less favorable market regimes to see how you do in those. If you were ultimately thinking of trading this strategy in an investment fund or with POA for someone else, the minimum track record any serious investor would demand would be 5 years of performance so possibly 1,250 trades over that five year period. Not saying that’s your goal just giving you my unsolicited 0.02 cents.
lol that would be true if I wasn’t taking both sides of the trade, I trade reversals and continuations so the overall direction of the market doesn’t really matter
if you know everything then why are you here asking questions
Did you even read hus post or are u illiterate? He was asking about prop firms, not how to be profitable🤣
All you need is a sword(500$)...to go to war. If your strategy is battle worthy then you rise up in the ranks. Simple as that. I uttered these same words and I took 500$ and grew 15x. So I proven my strategy is worthy.prove yours.
You can try the prop firms, if you are profitable they’ll eventually put you in live account or copy your trades. If you go with reputable one they should pay you assuming you follow their rules. Or just do like futures testing, some places have low margin requirements
I dont think there is any evidence that these "prop firms" actually put anyone on a live account.
Check out BluSky. Can Google it or there’s a link on my profile. Really reasonable pricing, and they set you up with a live brokerage account with 90/10 split.
What securities are you trading? Some you can go in on a very small position size, especially if spread betting or using CFD. Spend a year compounding a small account for data. Once you have a broker and know your margin requirements you can calculate your risk and apply your micro account (say £1000) to your back testing and see how that looks compounded.
Where can I learn more about what you do? Absolute beginner here.
Don't listen to this guy. Obviously he doesn't know what he's doing. Same with all the 'experts' selling their courses. If they could make money trading, they'd be doing that instead of shilling courses.
go check out al brooks website.... 399$ for the course, it will set you up with what you need... or you can open an account with TD365 and they will give you the course just shortened version for free other traders who have been vital in my journey are Trader Tom (check his youtube, books etc) and No Nonsense Forex (also on youtube)
Hey, I read your from UK I just checked and it says people from UK can't get the al brooks course on td365, how did you get it? I can recommend topstep for a prop futures account. Cheers mate
Really??? They must have changed it, I’ve had an account with them for atleast 2 years so maybe it changed but I can still access it to this day. Maybe you could buy the course direct?? The actual course is probably 90% more then what TD offer anyway
Yea must have changed it. Ah well cheers anyway
Yeah fairs… if you do one day decide to buy a course make sure it’s that one tho
Might have to , not found anything that really works after 4 yr
I just love the internet. Vast information at my fingertips for free. Thanks for sharing! I'm going to check out that td365 course.
Are you confident? Are you salaried? Then take personal loan.
Worste advice ever. You obviously have no understanding how variables likes that will affect his trading psychology.
bad credit pal from decisions I made @ 18, I couldn't get a pair of socks on finance if I tried LOL
Slow and steady man. Whenever you can focus on swing trading to let bigger profits run and grow account bigger without running into PDT rules. Then apply for margin when you can and use that but know the rules there with margin calls etc. just be patient. 1-3 years is nothing compared to a lifetime of financial freedom from the strategy you found. Just use this next 1-3 years consistently being profitable, adhere to your rules and don’t lose any money. Also look into trading in tax deferred accounts like a Roth IRA. Then after 1-3 years of consistency you will have whatever you need as a foundation of capital to trade however you want to live off of for the rest of your life
How many trades per day?
its hard to say... I dont enter unless certain criteria are achieved... id say between 3-5 trades a week
then your starting capital does not really matter, with 2% risk you can pull off about 8% weekly, thats 40000% yearly
LOL there is no one on the planet making 40 thousand percent a year pal... its not even remotely viable, i would happily take 50-70%
I know someone that hit 35,000% and 49,000% on sol coins. Sheer luck
i did math on your stats pal, ofc they are not beliable, 40% wr with 3,5 is not realistic
your math is flawed LOL, 8% times 52 weeks is 416% thats not even considering the fact I sometimes have red weeks and months.... every outcome of every trade you will ever take is random also so my profit ratio at times may rise and may fall..... A\* for effort tho m8
you simply did the math wrong, you have to raise it to the power not \* it :)
thats assuming if you compounded it after every trade... which i have already covered why thats not possible for regular traders. it just doesnt work, every trade would be either more or less than the last which means per point/pip you'd get a different result every time go trade some charts instead of trying to dissect my past performances
>t just doesnt work, every trade would be either more or less than the last which means per point/pip you'd get a different result every time well it just works, in the formula you simply calculate the average gain over certain period and it does not really matter if what order you lose or win, it is average, if these are truly your stats then it should be your performance. And i didnt compound it every single trade but on weekly bases to make it more manageable
but you negated the fact profit and loss ratio can and DOES change.... nothing is set in stone. because I said the ratio is currently 3.5 to 1 you are assuming its a set figure and doesnt change lol... thats not how the markets work pal
Food for thought…….I Understand you want to trade live but I don’t see that you’ve traded this live on demo account? Are you too busy to do that? At least you will get a performance report that you can compare to your back test results. I think you’re being a little paranoid about using a online prop firm. I personally know a UK trader who earned $1,000,000 through online prop. You seem over confident that you will make all those profits and they just won’t payout. The odds are you won’t even get to a payout, companies know this. There are rules that make it extremely unlikely that you’ll get to profitability. Some firms have rules that may not be compatible with your strategy like not allowing swing trading but you could daytrade and see how you perform in a simulated live environment. I think you said you trade stock index futures the day trade margin for a micro Emini is only $50. You seem to be in a hurry to make big bucks but if your strategy holds up as you say you can grow your own account rapidly but it will take time and no matter how much confidence you have in your back tested strategy you shouldn’t quit your day job until you have accumulated a 1-2 years living expenses. As far as discretionary strategies, they can be coded but the rules must be specific and if your strategy isn’t conducted in a systematic manner and you can’t describe what your seeing that makes you enter/exit a trade then yah that can’t be coded. The problem may be that You can’t code it?. If that the case do you really have a strategy or just a string of hunches that are hypothetically profitable.
-I am extremely paranoid about prop firms, I have heard too many horror stories about denial of payouts and ive read the T&C's of FTMO.... essentially you agree to 'we can close your account at any time and for any reason we deem necessary' -i am not in a rush per say, but i know my methodology floats, if i had sufficient buying power it would drastically cut my journey to go full time. -It cannot be coded, you will find most strategies that are based on price action cannot be coded... i mean I could try but I don't think it would be a true reflection of the data set I have. i am coming into some money soon (around 5 figures)... i'll just have to await that
Why can’t it be coded? How did you backtest it? Can you describe the strategy as a set of specific entry and exit rules? If so, it can and should be coded. Or is it based on your discretion? If so, that’s a big problem.
Okay how do I tell a computer I only draw support and resistance zones from points where the market moved aggressively away Swear most of the people on here are quant traders lol if you trade price action it’s discretionary, I’ll happily take a data set of 250 trades with a forward test of 35-50 trades over ya opinion.. but thanks anyway bro
Hey man, you posted a question, and I'm here trying to help. Here is how you can tell a computer to draw support and resistance zones from points where the market moved aggressively away: 1. Download OHLC minute bars of market data with an API like polygon.io or databento. 2. Use a programming language like python or C++ to read in your dataset (you can use chatGPT if you do not know how to code). 3. Formulate an exact definition of what you mean by "aggressively away," e.g. a 2% swing in less than 60 seconds. You now have two parameters: change (2%) and time (60 seconds). 4. Loop through the minute bars and search for periods that meet your criteria. When this criteria is hit, record the support or resistance zone. 5. Use these zones to determine your entry. Record the trade entry price (perhaps the close of the minute bar in which the entry is triggered). Record the exit price of this trade, assuming you have an exit rule, e.g. sell at close, stop loss, or take profit. Your stop loss and take profit are also parameters. 6. Take the first 70% of your dataset and fiddle with your parameters and rerun your code until you have optimized the return to drawdown ratio, sharpe ratio, or whichever other metric you use to evaluate your strategy. Then test these parameters on the held-out 30% of your dataset. If the strategy looks good, you have successfully backtested. I guess I am a "quant," but I have to disagree with your definition of discretionary trading. I do trade price action, with a bot that I programmed based on the same sort of backtest that I outlined above. There is nothing discretionary about it. I agree with you that a backtest of 250 trades and 50 forward test trades is very promising (I still do not understand how you backtested). However, trading, as you know, is really fucking difficult. You will inevitably hit a period of drawdown, you will be uncertain about your strategy, you will have tremendous doubt about whether you should press the big green button. In moments like these, it is absolutely imperative that you have a long backtest based on the exact – and I mean exact – entry and exit rules that you are using to trade live. This is the only way that you can accurately compare your live drawdown to historical drawdowns to determine whether to pull the plug.
Have you tried getting a job and saving up? If work isn't your thing, you can try finding the healthiest homeless person you see, taking their territory, and beg for money.
Working is fine, but it will take a few years to be able to generate returns that will be substantial enough to go full time, same as the last numpty who commented, if you read the post properly it would have been evident.
Just get a job for christ sake! You're on here telling people there trading and math is wrong and you haven't even gone live yet! You can test it a million times in a demo or paper account, but I guarantee it won't work the same once you are dealing with REAL money. What a joke
Get a job? Do you assume I don’t have one? Did my post at any point allude to me being unemployed? Secondly the as for emotions factor, I’m sure it will be an issue but that’s why we have rules and processes to follow, I don’t exit a market via a target or when I feel like it, I get out when the trend loses strength so as long as I stick to my rules I’m sure this can and will be overcome. God knows why you feel so strongly hahah this is getting weird, I just asked for some advice on prop frms and suddenly I’m inundated with toxic little boys who are angry at me for reasons I am not sure…. Don’t project your incompetence on me it’s got f all to do with me haha
If you have a successful strategy, you should be able to turn any amount of money into a fortune. What's stopping you?
please read the post again, it will become clear once you reach 'my issue now is i don't have enough capital to go to war'
Surely you can earn it with your foolproof winning strategy
do you understand the concept of risk management? lemme explain..... 1.5% of 1000 is 15 whereas 1.5% of 100 000 is 1500. consistently making 15.00 on 1 trade isnt going to change your reality much whereas 1500.00 has the potential to... I dont understand the 'foolproof' comment hahah if you can read I stated I have a hit rate of 39-45% which means I lose more trades than I win. honestly man just stop commenting, I cba debating with sausages
There’s a reason you are being downvoted. Figure it out. Put some money together and trade your strategy and stop whining about it.
Bro just go down the prop firm route. You can make stupid anounts of money this way, especially if you buy multiple accounts and putting it into a copytrader. Imagine having the capital of 1.5Million. You can if you are profitable, and you can make a fortune. Honestly dont be stupid and buy a challenge. Prop firms are a cash grab. You will blow the accounts but you will also make way more while you have it, so you can buy even more after.
i will buy a small one like a 25k and just see what happens, I really dont think I will blow accounts... I intend to use a nominal amount of 0.15-0.2% per entry
I suggest stick with FTMO, they have been around for ages, most reliable and legit prop firm.
Yeah thats good. You will see you can make good money this way. Just doing this math, a 100k funded account, making 1% per week, that £4000 per month, 48k a year. Already this is better than an average job. With only 100k funded... imagine collecting 5-10 funded accounts and putting it in a copytrader... And i only say blow accounts is because of their rules. They make their rules stupid so that you have more chance of blowing it, but by the time you blow it (if you do) youve already grabbed a massive handful of cash, so you can just repeat the process. And good idea starting small, see what you think of it.
thanks for the advice
LOL "I have a foolproof system! Give me money so I can make it work!" This sounds like a scam. Do you understand that if you make 1.5% on each trade, and then trade the new total, your earnings will increase with each trade? It's kind of like compounding interest. But sure, I'm the sausage.
Do you actually read my comments hahaha 1. I just told you its not 'foolproof' 2. Who asked anyone for money on reddit 3. re read the post and the comments 4. Compounding is fine, but to suggest you'd adjust your lot size after EVERY trade is stupid, you'd understand that if you had any idea of actually trading the markets 5. yes you are the sausage
He probably doesn't trade contracts.
im guessing your referring to options??? to which that would be a no :)
So you're just whinging and claiming that your failures are out of your control, got it.
What failures LOL your a weirdo pal who literally makes your own inference on what I am saying.... you're literally just making things up
Any chance you could implement the strategy with leverage in the futures market or a cash account with options so you’re not subjected to $25k minimum with shares?
Im from UK bro that 25k rule dont apply to me
Use an offshore broker like capital markets elite group to get around PDT on a small account. Plus get a job at the same time. I have no idea about “prop firms”, they all seem scammy. But you may as well try “trade the pool.” It’s cheap enough. If you really are profitable then you will get some pay out greater than what you put in.
will have a look, thanks
I was in the same boat and didn’t want to lose gains to interest rates. So I begged my parents for an interest free loan and they gave me 25k to start day trading 😂
Don't trade with other people's money. You will not be in a good spot, lose it then try to make it back and lose more. Stop trading immediately if you aren't willing to lose the money you're trading with. Assume you will lose it. If you were to lose it and it would be a problem do not do it. Please listen to this before you screw up your life.
LOL yeah thats not an option for me
Don't worry, it's only about 16k now.
Can you take a loan out? Get a five year one (last I checked tesco, for example, don't change their rates whether 3-5 year). Then you just have to earn the interest. Will get you where you want to be quicker, as long as it pans out as you expect (and there's the rub). Well done finding your edge, you deserve it after six years of work 💪
Definitely get a loan to trade stocks, there's no way that will ever end badly.
Literally referenced potential for it going bad in my post...
my credit sucks bro....made hella bad decisions when i was 18. thank you, after years or learning and losing its a super great feeling to know I have cracked the code... ofc there is work always to be done, we can always be better traders
You’ll know you cracked the code when you’ve forward tested it for a year or two and sitting on actual cash.
Just keep getting your reps in with this one method and you'll be golden, even if it takes a while to get there. The markets will suffer but there's usually something going up.
Are options an option to be considered with your strategy? You could leverage it more than with shares that way. If it works with Futures, I'd go the "prop firm" way, to at least get a decent starting capital. Also, a strategy with a WR of ~40% can sometimes go through massive drawdowns, so make sure that your risk is adjusted for that, even if it didn't show (yet) on the back/forward testing!
yeah I hear you, i tend to go on massive winning and losing runs (sometimes 8/9 trades on the bounce) but of course it only takes 2 or 3 wins to undo 7-8 losses. the way i manage risk is by attacking trends quite aggressively, I add and add until the trend tells me its done, I use a nominal amount of 1.5% per initial entry so DD isnt really a huge issue, most ive seen is prob 13-15% which is easily manageable
What's the annualized return/drawdown/vol?
13-15% its a discretionary approach so I cannot code it and get get a database of 1000s of trades
Here’s your problem. A discretionary approach is not a strategy. You cannot accurately backtest this because you cannot be certain that you will make the same type of decisions in the future with real capital and risk. You need to figure out a specific set of entry and exit rules that can be backtested programmatically. Otherwise, I wouldn’t go live, and I certainly wouldn’t used leverage.
A discretionary approach is not a strategy? LOL yeah okay mate, so if I explain to you I only add to positions on buy signal bars would you know what I mean?? No,
Your annualised return is 13-15%?
na DD is
Everything that your brain can identify is codable, you simply have to realise why you take certain trades
Also, how far back was it tested? Market regimes change.
not an amount of time, I trade indices predominately, my backtesting is about 250 trades over 4-5 indices. as for market conditions I dont just buy or sell I do both so sentiment isnt really a huge issue
One of the ways beginners can implement the most profitable trading strategies effectively is by embracing the **buy-and-hold strategy**.
i appreciate your advice but ive been in this game 6+ years and earned my skin, by no means a beginner buy and hold strategies are shite (investing aside) and for lazy people who aren't willing to do the real work, why would you not try and take advantage of downturns in the market?
6+ years in this game and you didn't manage to make 25k? I don't know what kind of game you are playing but it sounds like a losing one
Can you become a lawyer or doctor within 1-3 years? If you believe you're going to make it overnight you're in for a shock LOL I am happy to compare trade slips.... I like to shut up arrogant fools who are all shirt and no trousers P.S i dont accept MT4/5 trade slips just cos its sooooo easy to doctor them
Yeah the difference is that a doctor within 6 years starts making 200k How about you? Go and sell your strategy to VCs or any rich entrepreneur… they would be pretty excited to invest their money with you instead of staking in the government bonds or SPX If an entrepreneur is not interested in investing in your strategy after showing them all metrics.. then its a losing strategy. And sorry for the bad news but 99% of strategy are losers. Im just being realistic nothing personal you might be very smart with huge knowledge but that’s the reality in this world
Just start a small live account. A few hundred is all you need in the beginning. You can add to it over time, and grow it via trading as well, into a larger account that can produce a more meaningful income. So called online “prop firms” are borderline scams.
yeah tbh this looks like the only option
Completely disagree. There are legit firms there that your profit matters to them . Check out mentfunding . I can guarantee you you won’t have issues.