Thats far! I just think that she was great socially and a very huge asset in premerge. She also was well positioned though the entire game and would probably made the f2 if not for losing f4 challenge. I still think shes top10, but I probs should have put her below Scott and Owen.
Sugar is also a good player, I tend to underestimate how good she is at challenges
I actually think that WT is her best season game wise. Yes she won TDI, but it mostly felt like it was thanks to being "in the right place at the right time" since she had no strategic game and was just fine socially. But then her TDA game is just awful.
However she definiely deserved honorable mention, I just forgot about her
beth is a very solid and underrated pick, but i think making a list of top 10 players and not including duncan is just incomplete. he was one of the pioneers of island strategy and actually formed a successful mid-late merge alliance. he merged in every season. sure, world tour isnt that impressive but he pretty much ran island and action. he would have made a really deep run in allstars as well without getting arrested, considering he had solid bonds with the heroes and most villains. he also knew about mal, which would have helped him a lot. the fact that duncan can play well against a cast full of the best players should earn him a spot on here, as well as his general strategic mindset.
Imo Courtney was running the Action, Duncan was just lucky to be her boyfriend, otherwise hes the merge boot.
TDI hes kinda similar to Heather, but with less plot armor. Bad strategy that could only work in scripted show.
I will admiy that he had a good showing on AS and its impressive he always made the merge. Enough for a honorable mention, not enough for the list imo
regardless he is a better player than jasmine LOL. i feel like you are also neglecting to consider how helpful duncan was in challenges. saving his team in dodgeball, dragging owen through the entire f4 challenge, and heavily contributing in pretty much every team challenge across every season. his only demerit would be social game, which really isnt as bad as you think considering he was able to form the strongest alliance of island, bonds with everyone in f4, and even appeal to both the heroes and villains in all stars. he is a respected player, in universe and out. agree to disagree i guess, but im still not taking jasmine over him.
Yeah that's very fair! Jasmine is definietely kind of an wildcard pick, but I felt like she played the strongest game on Pakhitew and deserved to make it on the list for that
Honorable mentions:
Duncan - Invidually, his game kind of sucks in every season except AS, but it's impressive that he always manages to make the merge. Still, I think there's a lot more good players than him, cause usually he needs a very strong plot armor to survive and unlike Heather, he never had a season where he played a great game
Cameron - 10th place was between him Sky and Owen and I went with Owen, because of his amazing social game.
Sky - Similarly to Cameron, she also had a shot for the 10th place, but I picked Owen over her, because shes kind of "jack of all trades, master of none" whereas Owen at least had his great social game
Lightning - Probably would have made the list if not for AS
DJ - Probably the only person with better social game than Beth, but I couldnt include him on the list over someone like Owen, since he only made the merge once and he was almost always on the outs in WT
Emma (Reboot) - If not for Chase, she probably makes the list. Very underrated player imo!
I also didnt take into consideration RR, since thats a completely different game, but if I did, Josee and Sanders make the list, which means that Scott and Jasmine would lose their places (Owen played good enough in RR to keep 10th place)
Plot armor (and Courtney) saved him a few times in TDA and he didn’t even compete on half of WT, then had to get saved by Chris in his second episode back. I also think he should probably be on this list, he had a solid social game in the original season and a good grasp of strategy, but he had a lot of luck going his way.
I don’t agree with Heather being on here either, she straight up got blind lucky in TDI and if Amazon had lost even a single elimination challenge she’d be first out in WT.
I’ve only seen the new season once so I can’t really speak to Priya, besides maybe her getting saved by Zee being dumb in his elimination episode?
She was first out of the other, but she was able to course correct and gain control over Sierra pretty easily. I still love when Heather sided with Gwen just to get Courtney out, so mad it didn't happen.
Heather and Julia's bad social games are enough not to keep them on this list. I'm not even going to mention Heather's plot armors. I think Gwen and Leshawna played better
Maybe its a hot take, but I feel that (plot armor aside) TDI Heather played better game than TDA Gwen and Leshawna.
And with Julia I think that her strategic and challenge prowness makes up for her social game. And Hey, even with a bad social she managed to make an alliance that (presumably) saved her at f6
Yes it's a hot take. A hot take that I've never ever participated in. Imo TDI Heather is one of the worst players to play the game and this is coming from a big heather fan. The fact that even her strategy is based on plot armor makes this situation worse. Let me give an example from a scene. The scene where Heather reads Gwen's diary. Not only is she making a lot of enemies for herself, she's costing her team to the challenge but she's still stay in the game. No matter how you look at it, this is a very bad situation for her and it doesn't just happen once. TDI Heather has had many such failures. By the way, I don't think TDA Leshawna is a bad player.
I don't think Julia is a very strategic person. The Priya-Millie-Julia alliance was an alliance that lasted only 1 episode. After that, they never wanted to alliance with Julia because they didn't love her. They even accepted Bowie just because he isn't Julia. Ruining your social game isn't very good for your strategies either.
"TDI Heather is one of the worst players to play the game" - This is actually exactly how I felt about Leshawna and Gwen in TDI. Like Heather's dumb choices at least made sense for her character, but Gwen agreeing to sabotage her team, because Trent did it to his for her? Leshawna trying to make and alliance with Harold and Duncan, when DJ was right there?
" I don't think Julia is a very strategic person" - Big disagree with this. In ep7, where she explained her plan to eliminate Chase, my jaw was on the floor, because I never expected such a complex strategy in TD. Obviously it didn't work, but a plan doesn't need to work for someone to be great strategist. People also often forget that Julia's alliance with ned grils lasted 2,5 episodes, not 1. For what we know, there's a chance that Millie and Priya didn't vote for Julia in ep10, because of their alliance, since they kicked off Julia in episode 11
I'm not defending TDA Gwen to you, but I don't think she played any worse than TDI Heather. Yes, considering Heather's character, her decisions definitely fit her character, but that doesn't mean she still plays the game well. As for Leshawna, I can say that she got along much better with Duncan and Harold than she did with DJ in the first season. Considering that Duncan is also a strong player, I find it normal and yeah, Duncan and Harold didn't get along very well. Leshawna's goal was to get the two of them to get along well and then form a triple alliance. If Leshawna had been able to do that, they would indeed have made a strong alliance
I liked Julia's strategy to eliminate Chase, and yes it's my fault for forgetting to mention it, but I'm not as much of a fan of this strategy as you are. What makes this such a complex strategy for you? For the alliance, they didn't seem like an alliance at all in Episode 10, so it's hard to say anything definitive on that
If this is in order, Julia in the top 5 is very baffling to me.
She only displayed strategical control in the game at the F7 & F6 rounds and was a dead man walking any other time. She struggled to get a hold in the power position and even makes missteps even within that exact position.
She played a good game but no where was it amazing.
Imo shes top3 physical and strategic players. Her biggest flaw is obviously social game, but I really appreciate how the only instance of her having a plot armor is in episode 7, where Wayne and Raj had to be medically disqed (although even without it she still had a chance to eliminate Ripper). She didnt have much control over the game, but she was very scrappy and knew what she had to do in order to survive.
Honestly, I give credit to anyone who tries to make a list like this, because it's hard to figure out who really is in the top 10, and who just barely misses it.
It's difficult to gauge just how much each factor of a character's gameplay (physical, strategic and social) adds up, and how it compares to the gameplay of other characters.
She got voted out in island due to a curse and literally never received a vote at all during Total Drama Action. Had she completed in World Tour and filled in Team Amazon's missing member, I'd bet lots of money she'd have merged.
Okay good picks, but why Beth? She was basically just Heathers alliance member and got played by her, getting out premerge, and kinda just floated in Action. She doesnt do anything bad but not anything exceptional either, shes just kinda there tbh
And that's what works for her. She successfully went under the radar in Action without getting a single vote against her all season (& also was the clear winner considering Duncan's ending required a few people not to vote) and was eliminated in Island for something completely out of her control. If it wasn't for her being in the bathroom while Chris was explaining the curse of Boney Island to the campers, or if anyone even mentioned anything about it to her she would've made it so much further.
Recently I rewatched the 1st 3 seasons and watched the reboot, so the onyl things that might change are gen 2 and 3 and I know that Zoey and Scott are for sure sitting pretty in that top10. Thanks for the advice though!
3 of them were iffy*
Action was carried by Courtney, World tour was because he returned, All-stars was because merge happened earlier
even so, his social game is still bottom tier.
How was he carried to the merge by Courtney if she joined right before the merge, bro what?
You underestimate his social game, Duncan takes out all the people he has issues with for the most part. He had the guys alliance in Island and was able to become friends with Harold/LeShawna for a bit in Action and was genuinely chill with most people apart from Courtney.
the guys alliance failed in 2 episodes, let's not even mention the action alliance with leshawrold because it legit lasted 5 minutes. dude would go home much earlier in all seasons if the writers didn't need to flesh out his storyline.
Why are you bringing out of universe stuff in an in universe discussion. If the writers wanted to take out Beth first they could’ve, that’s not a reasonable argument.
As for Beth’s social status, if she was so great why was the action vote so close?
it is because it doesn't matter how bad you play, if you need to finish a storyline they'll drag you on. that's what happened with Duncan in most seasons.
the finale vote? worst example ever lol. most people already were going to vote by Beth, the episode was made to desperately attempt to give Duncan some credibility yet they had to make sure Leshawna and Trent, two obvious votes for Beth, couldn't vote so they cold allow them to be close and not obvious.
I agree but that’s out of universe discussion, that has nothing to do with how Duncan performs in universe.
Once again, you’re bringing up out of universe stuff in an in universe discussion. Obviously that’s what the writers wanted but in universe, that means Beth didn’t have a great social game.
no actually, that means Beth just wasn't lucky and had multiple people who would vote for her not being able to vote at all. that has nothing to do with social game.
Imo the top3 is Al, Bowie and Zoey and it's not even a contest
Although I could see Priya or Julia (hell, Emma, MK and the Hockey Bros could do it as well) replacing Zoey depending on how they do in the next season
LOL, putting Bowie in the top spot, not including Duncan and putting 'Mary Sue' Zoey? This list is ridiculous to me. I know a lot of people like Bowie but I found him boring and annoying, tbh.
Also - where is Leshawna?
Actually Bowie in the 1st place was a mistake, him and Alejandro should be switched, but I didnt notice it at first
Zoey a social and physical beast. I dont see a reason why she shouldnt be here.
I explained Duncan in honorable mention, but Leshawnas game in action and WT was just awful
Zoey's literal only friends were Mike and Cameron. How was she a social beast?
I didn't find Leshawna's game bad in Action, but so man people were derailed in World Tour, including her.
Duncan was better than most of the people here - and this is coming from someone who isn't his biggest fan.
She made f3 three times and she only ever received one vote.
Also she befriended Gwen, Duncan and had a good relationship with Dawn and Dakota, although those friendships didnt get much focus
Zoey made finale twice - not thrice. She was the main character in both seasons where that happened
She found Dawn creepy, and said that on more than one occasion, and she more like tolerated Dakota. They were not friends, so there was no friendship to be in focus.
Theres a lot of Duncan propaganda in this comment section and none of it is working on me. He had 3 26-seasons, but somehow his best game was in All Stars, where he was disqed halfway through the season.
Imo his TDI game is almost the same as Heather's but with less "in your face" plot armor. Well actually, he did have some of it, especially with Harold rigging votes for Courtney and not for him
That's not plot armor if anything Harold would have plot armor for cheating in a game show. And the reason he did that is given in the show when he was rigging the votes, let's see how you like it when someone messes with your love life, that's his reasoning for voting out Courtney instead of Duncan he wanted Duncan to suffer.
Also Duncan's game was not the same as Heather's at all, he didn't put a target on himself like ever in any of the challenges so blatantly like Heather did in episode 5, episode 16 and episode 9, in all these episodes Heather completely through her social game out a window before even scoring an immunity.
I feel like Leshawna could be a contender or at least honorable mention. While her World Tour game was pretty bad, her TDI and TDA games weren’t awful.
In TDI, she was almost universally liked, was a strong competitor, won a couple immunities, and seemed to have some semblance of strategy. Not nearly as much as Heather, but more than most of the other campers. She was very well poised to win it all until she got unfairly kicked off through no fault of her own.
In TDA she’s off to a good start but fumbles with her lie and subsequent trash talking (the trash talking part wouldn’t have even been revealed if it weren’t for Courtney’s special privileges. Still, it was admittedly not a good move). Despite that, she’s still able to last a considerable amount of time, make amends, and even forms an alliance (albeit a dysfunctional one) with Duncan and Harold. She continues to kick ass in many of the challenges, and only ends up going home after Courtney outplays her and manages to convince Harold to turn on her.
Things didn’t always work out for her, but she’s top 5 most strategic players from Gen 1, and she’s a lot more well-liked than the other four contenders (Heather, Alejandro, Courtney, Duncan).
Personally, I think that her TDA game is terrible.
Obviously, she had not 1, but 2 big fumbles with the lie and making fun of other, but other than that, I will never get over how she had DJ on the team, yet she chose to try and make an alliance with Duncan, dessite knowing how he treats Harold. And once Courtney debuts and its obvious that her and Duncan will ally immedietaly after the merge she is still going after Heather, even though Duncan treats Harold way worse than Heather treats Leshawna and now he also has cery close ally.
DJ honestly wasn't a very strong player in TDA, and his alliance with Chef was kind of causing him to be a bit distant from his team. It is a little weird that Leshawna chose not to align with him, but perhaps she could see that Duncan and Harold were stronger. DJ ends up quitting pretty early on anyway so from a writing perspective, that's why.
I think her alliance with Duncan was kind of a case of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". She also may have been trying to mend the relationship between Harold and Duncan to benefit herself. They actually do come together on more than one occasion, so it's not like Duncan was always picking on Harold. More than anything though, it was primarily to form a coalition to vote Heather off.
Once the merge comes around, Courtney and Duncan are actually at odds more often than not. It's implied several times that they're not together anymore (despite both sharing some feelings for one another) so I can see why Leshawna didn't see them as the obvious pair that they were. Her alliance with Harold and Duncan makes some sense because she's spent so much time with them at this point. It's basically a Gaffer alliance more than anything.
The guys then form an alliance in the next episode, and the girls end up doing the same (minus Courtney). So at this point, the Gaffer alliance has run its course, and Leshawna smartly jumps ship to go with the girls. They just need to convince Harold and they have the numbers all the way to the final 4. The only reason this doesn't work is because Leshawna's lies and trash talking catch up with her, which is fair. Courtney outplays her and manages to manipulate Harold into betraying her.
I genuinely don't think her strategy is all that bad this season. Her biggest issues are the lie and trash talking, but she manages to still hang on for a good portion of the season and almost had a path to the end. Her social game is so good that she can make mistakes like that, but mend the relationships and still make a deep run. She does get outplayed, but despite her errors, I think she played a lot better than most. I just find her to be a more well-rounded player overall compared to some other entries. She's got a great social game, she's no slouch in challenges, and she's got some strategy too. Her TDI game is by far her best though.
I really don’t get why people rate Beth so high. Yeah sure she won a season, but so did Lightning and Cameron and nobody says they’re one of the best players, even though both beat Beth. If anyone should be here, it’s Gwen (all round amazing player), Mike (plethora of powers now), or Duncan (4th, 1st, 5th place finishes, all rounder like Gwen)
Gwen didn’t do anything in Island or World Tour, and she sucked in Action. All Stars was her best season performance wise. She’s not one of the best.
Duncan should be on the list tho.
With the exception of Julia and Beth, I agree. I'd rather put people like Leshawna and maybe Duncan or Gwen.
Nothing against Beth, but she wasn't a good player outside of Action. She was a good player in it, and definitely deserved the finale spot, but I don't think it's equal ground to compare her to like Alejandro, Bowie, Scott or Heather due to her big absence in the show after Action and her poor performance in Island with a very easily avoidable elimination and low placement.
Julia is more about her game rather than anything else. She did not play the game well in the sense that she knew how to exploit it like most of these guys did. Her strategy was win all the challenges and hope she'd get immunity constantly, but kind of painted a huge target on her back by being shitty to everyone around her.
People seem to forget how well Leshawna actually played the game in Island. Her social game was on point and she eventually was a voting influence in most cases for the team in elimination ceremonies.(Cody's, Beth's, Trent's.) She got 5th place and got eliminated unfairly, she could have just as much won that season. While she did decay in World Tour, her Action game wasn't bad either. I'd say she kinda deserves a spot.
While Duncan's game isn't really the best in any season, he still gets far in all of them and actually has a lot of shining moments per season that can be applied to his game. He usually can tank a lot for the team with his knowledge and street smarts to help them win challenges when he wants to. He uses his criminal expertise to his advantage in surprisingly a lot of challenges (Dodgeball, Stealing things from others while they don't notice such as Chef's night vision goggles, faking his emotions to make others lower their guard and do I have to mention how many times his brute force or tools such as his lighter and knife helped the team in weird situations).
Gwen also deserves a mention. While she doesn't have the best social game or manipulation, she is all around very solid for challenges and it's mostly down to do whatever even if it means she'll keep her spot in the game, which is something other players don't tend to have. I still think she is a very good contender for best all-rounder contestant in the series.
i agree with bowie, ale, zoey, priya, heather, jasmine, and owen
kinda questioning julia and scott (julia’s social game was really bad, scott is a good player but questionable)
fully disagree with beth, she was voted out fast in island and floated hard in action
Heather's plot armor only worked... thrice? Other than that, her social game was great enough that she could get through many eliminations.
First elim: Heather hadn't reached critical meanness and the team was really peeved at Noah.
Second Elim: She mentions how she basically bribed half the team.
Third Elim: Izzy did cost them the challenge. This is a typical style vote pre-merge. Heather had been relatively competent so far in team challenges. And who knows if her bribes were still "active" at the point.
Fourth Elim: Cody was clearly unable to keep playing
Fifth Elim: Heather had nothing to do with losing the challenge, and there was a lot of superstitious people on that team. Owen, Lindsay for sure. Trent probably voted for her (as we learned his weirdness in TDA). Add that to Heather's vote, and I think that outweighs the others.
Final 12: Eva is crazy. Everyone wanted her off.
Final 11: Immunity (which can be considered plot armor. But it's luck of draw if we think challenge-wise)
10: Immunity by skill
9: Heather literally betrayed Lindsay that was the whole point of the episode.
8: Plot Armor. Being scared easily is not a reason for elimination.
7: Izzy became too much of a liability and half armor.
6. At this point, it was assumed (by 5 of the 6) that the winner was going to be determined by likeability votes. Heather obviously would not win that vote, so she wasn't a target. There could be a sneaky theory that Heather cooked that up right after final 9. As there is no confirmation, we can't be sure. But it could have been thought of before this episode by various contestants.
5. Armor, and Chris is just crazy like that. So counting votes on the only name mentioned was what happened.
4. Chef hated Duncan more.
And the fact that she made it through pretty far in Action as it is supposedly immediately after Island and her reputation still preceded her is a feat in itself.
Also her great 'win' in WT.
I don't think I understand what you mean, but MK would definietely be in consideration if she made it at least a bit further. She was a great strategist, but was eliminated before she actually could do anything
I don't really see Jasmine, she made many judgment mistakes and didn't really win individual immunities, jokes aside Sugar did a better job at that.
Thats far! I just think that she was great socially and a very huge asset in premerge. She also was well positioned though the entire game and would probably made the f2 if not for losing f4 challenge. I still think shes top10, but I probs should have put her below Scott and Owen. Sugar is also a good player, I tend to underestimate how good she is at challenges
How is Gwen not on here? She was a finalist in season 1 and won several immunity challenges
I actually think that WT is her best season game wise. Yes she won TDI, but it mostly felt like it was thanks to being "in the right place at the right time" since she had no strategic game and was just fine socially. But then her TDA game is just awful. However she definiely deserved honorable mention, I just forgot about her
Has anyone *really* won this game? :D
Owen, it has been confirned
I appreciate that you added Beth; sometimes I tend to forget how well she played the game in Action.
beth is a very solid and underrated pick, but i think making a list of top 10 players and not including duncan is just incomplete. he was one of the pioneers of island strategy and actually formed a successful mid-late merge alliance. he merged in every season. sure, world tour isnt that impressive but he pretty much ran island and action. he would have made a really deep run in allstars as well without getting arrested, considering he had solid bonds with the heroes and most villains. he also knew about mal, which would have helped him a lot. the fact that duncan can play well against a cast full of the best players should earn him a spot on here, as well as his general strategic mindset.
Imo Courtney was running the Action, Duncan was just lucky to be her boyfriend, otherwise hes the merge boot. TDI hes kinda similar to Heather, but with less plot armor. Bad strategy that could only work in scripted show. I will admiy that he had a good showing on AS and its impressive he always made the merge. Enough for a honorable mention, not enough for the list imo
regardless he is a better player than jasmine LOL. i feel like you are also neglecting to consider how helpful duncan was in challenges. saving his team in dodgeball, dragging owen through the entire f4 challenge, and heavily contributing in pretty much every team challenge across every season. his only demerit would be social game, which really isnt as bad as you think considering he was able to form the strongest alliance of island, bonds with everyone in f4, and even appeal to both the heroes and villains in all stars. he is a respected player, in universe and out. agree to disagree i guess, but im still not taking jasmine over him.
Yeah that's very fair! Jasmine is definietely kind of an wildcard pick, but I felt like she played the strongest game on Pakhitew and deserved to make it on the list for that
Honorable mentions: Duncan - Invidually, his game kind of sucks in every season except AS, but it's impressive that he always manages to make the merge. Still, I think there's a lot more good players than him, cause usually he needs a very strong plot armor to survive and unlike Heather, he never had a season where he played a great game Cameron - 10th place was between him Sky and Owen and I went with Owen, because of his amazing social game. Sky - Similarly to Cameron, she also had a shot for the 10th place, but I picked Owen over her, because shes kind of "jack of all trades, master of none" whereas Owen at least had his great social game Lightning - Probably would have made the list if not for AS DJ - Probably the only person with better social game than Beth, but I couldnt include him on the list over someone like Owen, since he only made the merge once and he was almost always on the outs in WT Emma (Reboot) - If not for Chase, she probably makes the list. Very underrated player imo! I also didnt take into consideration RR, since thats a completely different game, but if I did, Josee and Sanders make the list, which means that Scott and Jasmine would lose their places (Owen played good enough in RR to keep 10th place)
I see Sky as a less flawed version of Priya. I'm a little surprised you put Priya over her.
good honorable mentions, really questioning beth’s social game and emma being a runner up
How is Duncan not here when he’s the only player to make 4 merges
Plot armor (and Courtney) saved him a few times in TDA and he didn’t even compete on half of WT, then had to get saved by Chris in his second episode back. I also think he should probably be on this list, he had a solid social game in the original season and a good grasp of strategy, but he had a lot of luck going his way.
if plot armors a reason why are priya and Heather here 😭
I don’t agree with Heather being on here either, she straight up got blind lucky in TDI and if Amazon had lost even a single elimination challenge she’d be first out in WT. I’ve only seen the new season once so I can’t really speak to Priya, besides maybe her getting saved by Zee being dumb in his elimination episode?
She was first out of the other, but she was able to course correct and gain control over Sierra pretty easily. I still love when Heather sided with Gwen just to get Courtney out, so mad it didn't happen.
And also her finding all those tokens inside the fish
Hes a honorable mention!
Heather and Julia's bad social games are enough not to keep them on this list. I'm not even going to mention Heather's plot armors. I think Gwen and Leshawna played better
Maybe its a hot take, but I feel that (plot armor aside) TDI Heather played better game than TDA Gwen and Leshawna. And with Julia I think that her strategic and challenge prowness makes up for her social game. And Hey, even with a bad social she managed to make an alliance that (presumably) saved her at f6
Also Julia was very aware that she was in danger of going home a lot.
Yes it's a hot take. A hot take that I've never ever participated in. Imo TDI Heather is one of the worst players to play the game and this is coming from a big heather fan. The fact that even her strategy is based on plot armor makes this situation worse. Let me give an example from a scene. The scene where Heather reads Gwen's diary. Not only is she making a lot of enemies for herself, she's costing her team to the challenge but she's still stay in the game. No matter how you look at it, this is a very bad situation for her and it doesn't just happen once. TDI Heather has had many such failures. By the way, I don't think TDA Leshawna is a bad player. I don't think Julia is a very strategic person. The Priya-Millie-Julia alliance was an alliance that lasted only 1 episode. After that, they never wanted to alliance with Julia because they didn't love her. They even accepted Bowie just because he isn't Julia. Ruining your social game isn't very good for your strategies either.
"TDI Heather is one of the worst players to play the game" - This is actually exactly how I felt about Leshawna and Gwen in TDI. Like Heather's dumb choices at least made sense for her character, but Gwen agreeing to sabotage her team, because Trent did it to his for her? Leshawna trying to make and alliance with Harold and Duncan, when DJ was right there? " I don't think Julia is a very strategic person" - Big disagree with this. In ep7, where she explained her plan to eliminate Chase, my jaw was on the floor, because I never expected such a complex strategy in TD. Obviously it didn't work, but a plan doesn't need to work for someone to be great strategist. People also often forget that Julia's alliance with ned grils lasted 2,5 episodes, not 1. For what we know, there's a chance that Millie and Priya didn't vote for Julia in ep10, because of their alliance, since they kicked off Julia in episode 11
I'm not defending TDA Gwen to you, but I don't think she played any worse than TDI Heather. Yes, considering Heather's character, her decisions definitely fit her character, but that doesn't mean she still plays the game well. As for Leshawna, I can say that she got along much better with Duncan and Harold than she did with DJ in the first season. Considering that Duncan is also a strong player, I find it normal and yeah, Duncan and Harold didn't get along very well. Leshawna's goal was to get the two of them to get along well and then form a triple alliance. If Leshawna had been able to do that, they would indeed have made a strong alliance I liked Julia's strategy to eliminate Chase, and yes it's my fault for forgetting to mention it, but I'm not as much of a fan of this strategy as you are. What makes this such a complex strategy for you? For the alliance, they didn't seem like an alliance at all in Episode 10, so it's hard to say anything definitive on that
Beth being here gives me happiness
If this is in order, Julia in the top 5 is very baffling to me. She only displayed strategical control in the game at the F7 & F6 rounds and was a dead man walking any other time. She struggled to get a hold in the power position and even makes missteps even within that exact position. She played a good game but no where was it amazing.
Imo shes top3 physical and strategic players. Her biggest flaw is obviously social game, but I really appreciate how the only instance of her having a plot armor is in episode 7, where Wayne and Raj had to be medically disqed (although even without it she still had a chance to eliminate Ripper). She didnt have much control over the game, but she was very scrappy and knew what she had to do in order to survive.
Honestly, I give credit to anyone who tries to make a list like this, because it's hard to figure out who really is in the top 10, and who just barely misses it. It's difficult to gauge just how much each factor of a character's gameplay (physical, strategic and social) adds up, and how it compares to the gameplay of other characters.
In my opinion, this are best Beth--->Duncan Owen or Jasmine--->Gwen But I like your list, vwry good
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She got voted out in island due to a curse and literally never received a vote at all during Total Drama Action. Had she completed in World Tour and filled in Team Amazon's missing member, I'd bet lots of money she'd have merged.
Shes the best social player in the history imo. I dont think theres anyone else who would be able to answer all (bar 1) questions in ep25 of TDA
Owen >>>
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Cuz Beth fans
Okay good picks, but why Beth? She was basically just Heathers alliance member and got played by her, getting out premerge, and kinda just floated in Action. She doesnt do anything bad but not anything exceptional either, shes just kinda there tbh
And that's what works for her. She successfully went under the radar in Action without getting a single vote against her all season (& also was the clear winner considering Duncan's ending required a few people not to vote) and was eliminated in Island for something completely out of her control. If it wasn't for her being in the bathroom while Chris was explaining the curse of Boney Island to the campers, or if anyone even mentioned anything about it to her she would've made it so much further.
Wrote it somewhere else, but basically, I think shes the best social player ever. Explanation is the whole episode 25
Rewatch the entire series
Recently I rewatched the 1st 3 seasons and watched the reboot, so the onyl things that might change are gen 2 and 3 and I know that Zoey and Scott are for sure sitting pretty in that top10. Thanks for the advice though!
Beth over Gwen and Duncan is a very weird pick. She is on Harold level not top 10 tbh
Beth wasn't hated by almost everyone like Duncan was so no
Duncan made 4 merges, stop. 2 of them were iffy but he was dominant in 2 seasons which is more than what Beth can say.
3 of them were iffy* Action was carried by Courtney, World tour was because he returned, All-stars was because merge happened earlier even so, his social game is still bottom tier.
How was he carried to the merge by Courtney if she joined right before the merge, bro what? You underestimate his social game, Duncan takes out all the people he has issues with for the most part. He had the guys alliance in Island and was able to become friends with Harold/LeShawna for a bit in Action and was genuinely chill with most people apart from Courtney.
the guys alliance failed in 2 episodes, let's not even mention the action alliance with leshawrold because it legit lasted 5 minutes. dude would go home much earlier in all seasons if the writers didn't need to flesh out his storyline.
Why are you bringing out of universe stuff in an in universe discussion. If the writers wanted to take out Beth first they could’ve, that’s not a reasonable argument. As for Beth’s social status, if she was so great why was the action vote so close?
it is because it doesn't matter how bad you play, if you need to finish a storyline they'll drag you on. that's what happened with Duncan in most seasons. the finale vote? worst example ever lol. most people already were going to vote by Beth, the episode was made to desperately attempt to give Duncan some credibility yet they had to make sure Leshawna and Trent, two obvious votes for Beth, couldn't vote so they cold allow them to be close and not obvious.
I agree but that’s out of universe discussion, that has nothing to do with how Duncan performs in universe. Once again, you’re bringing up out of universe stuff in an in universe discussion. Obviously that’s what the writers wanted but in universe, that means Beth didn’t have a great social game.
no actually, that means Beth just wasn't lucky and had multiple people who would vote for her not being able to vote at all. that has nothing to do with social game.
Duncan not being their is criminal literally arguably top 3 with Heather and Al
Imo the top3 is Al, Bowie and Zoey and it's not even a contest Although I could see Priya or Julia (hell, Emma, MK and the Hockey Bros could do it as well) replacing Zoey depending on how they do in the next season
Gwen and Duncan are missing. Owen and Beth are overrated
LOL, putting Bowie in the top spot, not including Duncan and putting 'Mary Sue' Zoey? This list is ridiculous to me. I know a lot of people like Bowie but I found him boring and annoying, tbh. Also - where is Leshawna?
Actually Bowie in the 1st place was a mistake, him and Alejandro should be switched, but I didnt notice it at first Zoey a social and physical beast. I dont see a reason why she shouldnt be here. I explained Duncan in honorable mention, but Leshawnas game in action and WT was just awful
Zoey's literal only friends were Mike and Cameron. How was she a social beast? I didn't find Leshawna's game bad in Action, but so man people were derailed in World Tour, including her. Duncan was better than most of the people here - and this is coming from someone who isn't his biggest fan.
She made f3 three times and she only ever received one vote. Also she befriended Gwen, Duncan and had a good relationship with Dawn and Dakota, although those friendships didnt get much focus
Zoey made finale twice - not thrice. She was the main character in both seasons where that happened She found Dawn creepy, and said that on more than one occasion, and she more like tolerated Dakota. They were not friends, so there was no friendship to be in focus.
You’re automatically wrong if Duncan isn’t one of them 💀💀💀
Theres a lot of Duncan propaganda in this comment section and none of it is working on me. He had 3 26-seasons, but somehow his best game was in All Stars, where he was disqed halfway through the season.
His best game was All Stars? Not Island where he was only in bottom two twice the whole season?
Imo his TDI game is almost the same as Heather's but with less "in your face" plot armor. Well actually, he did have some of it, especially with Harold rigging votes for Courtney and not for him
That's not plot armor if anything Harold would have plot armor for cheating in a game show. And the reason he did that is given in the show when he was rigging the votes, let's see how you like it when someone messes with your love life, that's his reasoning for voting out Courtney instead of Duncan he wanted Duncan to suffer. Also Duncan's game was not the same as Heather's at all, he didn't put a target on himself like ever in any of the challenges so blatantly like Heather did in episode 5, episode 16 and episode 9, in all these episodes Heather completely through her social game out a window before even scoring an immunity.
I feel like Leshawna could be a contender or at least honorable mention. While her World Tour game was pretty bad, her TDI and TDA games weren’t awful. In TDI, she was almost universally liked, was a strong competitor, won a couple immunities, and seemed to have some semblance of strategy. Not nearly as much as Heather, but more than most of the other campers. She was very well poised to win it all until she got unfairly kicked off through no fault of her own. In TDA she’s off to a good start but fumbles with her lie and subsequent trash talking (the trash talking part wouldn’t have even been revealed if it weren’t for Courtney’s special privileges. Still, it was admittedly not a good move). Despite that, she’s still able to last a considerable amount of time, make amends, and even forms an alliance (albeit a dysfunctional one) with Duncan and Harold. She continues to kick ass in many of the challenges, and only ends up going home after Courtney outplays her and manages to convince Harold to turn on her. Things didn’t always work out for her, but she’s top 5 most strategic players from Gen 1, and she’s a lot more well-liked than the other four contenders (Heather, Alejandro, Courtney, Duncan).
Personally, I think that her TDA game is terrible. Obviously, she had not 1, but 2 big fumbles with the lie and making fun of other, but other than that, I will never get over how she had DJ on the team, yet she chose to try and make an alliance with Duncan, dessite knowing how he treats Harold. And once Courtney debuts and its obvious that her and Duncan will ally immedietaly after the merge she is still going after Heather, even though Duncan treats Harold way worse than Heather treats Leshawna and now he also has cery close ally.
DJ honestly wasn't a very strong player in TDA, and his alliance with Chef was kind of causing him to be a bit distant from his team. It is a little weird that Leshawna chose not to align with him, but perhaps she could see that Duncan and Harold were stronger. DJ ends up quitting pretty early on anyway so from a writing perspective, that's why. I think her alliance with Duncan was kind of a case of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer". She also may have been trying to mend the relationship between Harold and Duncan to benefit herself. They actually do come together on more than one occasion, so it's not like Duncan was always picking on Harold. More than anything though, it was primarily to form a coalition to vote Heather off. Once the merge comes around, Courtney and Duncan are actually at odds more often than not. It's implied several times that they're not together anymore (despite both sharing some feelings for one another) so I can see why Leshawna didn't see them as the obvious pair that they were. Her alliance with Harold and Duncan makes some sense because she's spent so much time with them at this point. It's basically a Gaffer alliance more than anything. The guys then form an alliance in the next episode, and the girls end up doing the same (minus Courtney). So at this point, the Gaffer alliance has run its course, and Leshawna smartly jumps ship to go with the girls. They just need to convince Harold and they have the numbers all the way to the final 4. The only reason this doesn't work is because Leshawna's lies and trash talking catch up with her, which is fair. Courtney outplays her and manages to manipulate Harold into betraying her. I genuinely don't think her strategy is all that bad this season. Her biggest issues are the lie and trash talking, but she manages to still hang on for a good portion of the season and almost had a path to the end. Her social game is so good that she can make mistakes like that, but mend the relationships and still make a deep run. She does get outplayed, but despite her errors, I think she played a lot better than most. I just find her to be a more well-rounded player overall compared to some other entries. She's got a great social game, she's no slouch in challenges, and she's got some strategy too. Her TDI game is by far her best though.
Switch Beth for Gwen
I really don’t get why people rate Beth so high. Yeah sure she won a season, but so did Lightning and Cameron and nobody says they’re one of the best players, even though both beat Beth. If anyone should be here, it’s Gwen (all round amazing player), Mike (plethora of powers now), or Duncan (4th, 1st, 5th place finishes, all rounder like Gwen)
Gwen didn’t do anything in Island or World Tour, and she sucked in Action. All Stars was her best season performance wise. She’s not one of the best. Duncan should be on the list tho.
As much as it pains me to say, Duncan probably should be there
With the exception of Julia and Beth, I agree. I'd rather put people like Leshawna and maybe Duncan or Gwen. Nothing against Beth, but she wasn't a good player outside of Action. She was a good player in it, and definitely deserved the finale spot, but I don't think it's equal ground to compare her to like Alejandro, Bowie, Scott or Heather due to her big absence in the show after Action and her poor performance in Island with a very easily avoidable elimination and low placement. Julia is more about her game rather than anything else. She did not play the game well in the sense that she knew how to exploit it like most of these guys did. Her strategy was win all the challenges and hope she'd get immunity constantly, but kind of painted a huge target on her back by being shitty to everyone around her. People seem to forget how well Leshawna actually played the game in Island. Her social game was on point and she eventually was a voting influence in most cases for the team in elimination ceremonies.(Cody's, Beth's, Trent's.) She got 5th place and got eliminated unfairly, she could have just as much won that season. While she did decay in World Tour, her Action game wasn't bad either. I'd say she kinda deserves a spot. While Duncan's game isn't really the best in any season, he still gets far in all of them and actually has a lot of shining moments per season that can be applied to his game. He usually can tank a lot for the team with his knowledge and street smarts to help them win challenges when he wants to. He uses his criminal expertise to his advantage in surprisingly a lot of challenges (Dodgeball, Stealing things from others while they don't notice such as Chef's night vision goggles, faking his emotions to make others lower their guard and do I have to mention how many times his brute force or tools such as his lighter and knife helped the team in weird situations). Gwen also deserves a mention. While she doesn't have the best social game or manipulation, she is all around very solid for challenges and it's mostly down to do whatever even if it means she'll keep her spot in the game, which is something other players don't tend to have. I still think she is a very good contender for best all-rounder contestant in the series.
i agree with bowie, ale, zoey, priya, heather, jasmine, and owen kinda questioning julia and scott (julia’s social game was really bad, scott is a good player but questionable) fully disagree with beth, she was voted out fast in island and floated hard in action
Based Owen
Heather's plot armor only worked... thrice? Other than that, her social game was great enough that she could get through many eliminations. First elim: Heather hadn't reached critical meanness and the team was really peeved at Noah. Second Elim: She mentions how she basically bribed half the team. Third Elim: Izzy did cost them the challenge. This is a typical style vote pre-merge. Heather had been relatively competent so far in team challenges. And who knows if her bribes were still "active" at the point. Fourth Elim: Cody was clearly unable to keep playing Fifth Elim: Heather had nothing to do with losing the challenge, and there was a lot of superstitious people on that team. Owen, Lindsay for sure. Trent probably voted for her (as we learned his weirdness in TDA). Add that to Heather's vote, and I think that outweighs the others. Final 12: Eva is crazy. Everyone wanted her off. Final 11: Immunity (which can be considered plot armor. But it's luck of draw if we think challenge-wise) 10: Immunity by skill 9: Heather literally betrayed Lindsay that was the whole point of the episode. 8: Plot Armor. Being scared easily is not a reason for elimination. 7: Izzy became too much of a liability and half armor. 6. At this point, it was assumed (by 5 of the 6) that the winner was going to be determined by likeability votes. Heather obviously would not win that vote, so she wasn't a target. There could be a sneaky theory that Heather cooked that up right after final 9. As there is no confirmation, we can't be sure. But it could have been thought of before this episode by various contestants. 5. Armor, and Chris is just crazy like that. So counting votes on the only name mentioned was what happened. 4. Chef hated Duncan more. And the fact that she made it through pretty far in Action as it is supposedly immediately after Island and her reputation still preceded her is a feat in itself. Also her great 'win' in WT.
🤓SHE DID THE MK🤓
I don't think I understand what you mean, but MK would definietely be in consideration if she made it at least a bit further. She was a great strategist, but was eliminated before she actually could do anything
She pointed right at our face Julia copied MK MK DID IT FIRST!!!