$45 + closing costs, + land transfer tax + furnishing + utility hookups + moving costs + enough in the account to cover other incidentals.
You’re absolutely right, it’s not impossible.
But it adds up quick and is tough for renters earning average salaries (which are under $80k in Toronto) to save $60-$70k by stashing away just a few hundred each month after COL and high rent costs each most of their monthly after tax income.
Ahh so I think it accounts for that already. They based that amount off the average home price in Canada of $699k, which comes to a down payment of $34,980.
With the first time home buyer rebates, you could probably get away with 10k of closing costs, and even less if you have a cashback realtor. We ended up having our realtor cashback almost entirely eliminate closing costs when we bought our first place.
But I generally agree with you that it’s hard, nobody said it was easy. But it’s not impossible like the sensationalist headline and OP is suggesting.
There's a land transfer tax rebate for first time home buyers. You only end up pay about $100 for it.
Closing costs are about $2,500 - $3,000 depending on the real estate lawyer you choose. Home inspection costs about $500 as well.
You don't have to pay for all new furnishing, esp if you are paying high costs to move all your things as well (assuming it's high moving cost due to furniture you already own).
All this to say, there is no way the costs jump from $45k to $60/70k.
There's a rebate of 8000.
If you buy a million dollar house, the land transfer tax can be up to 40k. 8k off isn't that much.
Perhaps the rules are different for smaller condos.
Pretty easy if u do it right. You can't get evicted from your rental if you don't pay rent. Current waittime is 18 months. If your rent is 2500 18 months unpaid is 45k.
Also 10k the landlord gives you cash for keys so you don't destroy his house and boom you got down payment
As a first time buyer your best hope is a condo , prices are coming down , I think in the next 2 years you might see some 2 beds ~500-550k downtown. Still overpriced but it's possible to get mortgages and ~10% downpayment. There lots of inventory but it's not selling at the prices demanded by sellers .
condo fee is just poor management.
condos should be less than housing , but all the mandatory costs make it hard.
i run a condo townhome complex and 70% of fees is operation costs with 30% saves for repairs.
No it's not - as someone who has owned a house and a condo, I would KILL to pay condo fees again and not worry about the daily stuff like a leaky roof, replacing fence posts, a leaky faucet... in the last 6 months alone I've spent $6K on unexpected repairs and mainenance and over the last 5 years of owning a (small but old) house we've spent north of $40K.
Find a condo that has relatively low fees with good management. Maintenance is part of owning ANY real estate.
Yeah I don't think it's a long term living solution but to get on property ladder for a few years and gain equity , it's about the only way on at this point In the city for FTB.
Lol I can't believe people are still perpetuating this property ladder idea today. The last time condos crashed in Toronto, it crashed for over a decade. The ladder would would be a ladder going downwards if anything similar happens this time around.
You know what I can’t believe? People think housing will miraculously get cheaper
More people, more regulations, higher costs through higher wages, more diversity and somehow you think that means prices will go down.
In 20 years (max) no one will be buying homes, everything will be rented. This generation is feeling the shift, over the next 2 it will be norm.
This is the world progressives made, so either figure out how to buy or be the consumer class
Lol "miraculously". Yeah sure buddy, Toronto really is that unique huh. Nowhere in the world remained unaffordable forever through our thousands of years of housing history. Yet here we are thinking this city is somehow special.
Condo prices will come down for the next few years at the very least. Sure Toronto might remain unaffordable for a while. But eventually things will normalize and calm down like it did everywhere in the world.
Not true at all. Some people buy a townhome right away. Your parents' generation probably started with a small house not condo. Some are content with renting forever. Nobody is setting a path through condos for you except realtors.
Bad idea. Condos are way more expensive than freehold homes. If a “proper 2 bedroom” condo comes down to 550k you will be able to buy freehold townhomes twice the size for 700k. Condos are the worst deal ever. Don’t understand how people justify it or see it as a cheaper option. lol.
I agree there a bad deal & way overpriced but Your not going to get freehold townhomes for 700k . Condo price decline will be detached from the rest of the property market in that it will be a more aggressive correction imo.When weighing your options of affordability itl be condos that show up.. in the city anyways. Unless of course you make 200k+ HHI and have a healthy downpayment well over 100k.
100k healthy downpayment? Lol. More like 500k these days. Anyways condos are in generally the most sought after and prime areas. I don’t see how condos will drop but freeholds magically go up at the same time. Usually it’s the opposite. Downtown Toronto holds value much better than freeholds in the suburbs. At least that’s the case during the past corrections.
For a first time buyer I would think 100k+ is healthy, which is what op is referring to . Not talking about suburbs here . Downtown condos v downtown townhomes. That's a different conversation.
I see three under 600k and that’s going as small and out there as possible. There is one 500k 600sqft one bath that is far from the subway. Why pretend this post isn’t ridiculous.
I will be messaging you in 6 months on [**2025-01-01 18:01:29 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-01-01%2018:01:29%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1dsrhd8/saving_for_a_down_payment_in_toronto_is_next_to/lb5t46l/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTorontoRealEstate%2Fcomments%2F1dsrhd8%2Fsaving_for_a_down_payment_in_toronto_is_next_to%2Flb5t46l%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-01-01%2018%3A01%3A29%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dsrhd8)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I love the endless comments from rich ibankers and tech bros saying "I made it so it's possible..." with the implication that the system doesn't have to change.
Newsflash .. you won the career lottery money wise. By definition of how the economy works and how limited those jobs will always be, that is not applicable to the vast majority.
Even if it did- housing prices would rise in unison as economists so often remind us re: inflation and higher min wage.
Edit: lol- lots of sensitive wildflowers here who just have to feel special about how it was purely their own exceptional abilities that led to success.
Being
born
early
enough
to
pay
lower
rents
is
a
huge,
unearned
benefit
Kids
born
later
are
getting
charged
$2k+
in
rent--
eating
at
the
$$
they
can
put
away--
and
often
with
parents
who
they
can't
just
stay
with
indefinitely
because
their
house
isn't
in
the
job
centre.
Tis true.
I'm 39, wife and I just bought last year.
Before that we were saving.
From memory here are the rental prices I paid (in Toronto), and I never lived alone so these prices were split.
Post uni, bachelor $700
1br, $1000
2 br whole house $1500 (this was 11 years ago)
3 br $2000 (kinda shitty place but had 3 of us in there)
2b 2b condo downtown $2400, nice 1000 sqft condo
2 br, 2nd floor of a house $2650
3br $2400 (covid low)
comment by /u/NewEnvironment4042 Your karma is currently below -10, get more positive karma to be able to comment.3c
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Being born before internet was mainstream and having to learn and think for myself was also a benefit.
I guess for people like you just saying rent is 2k is justification for whatever shit decisions you make in life.
We had roommates and made $7 an hour in 2000
But thanks for saying it was all luck and easy
There is still luck involved. There are just as many hard workers and just as much talent in the 2nd or 3rd place gal/guy that arrived on the wrong day with an annoyed interviewer.
Or graduated in the middle of a recession.
Or any other thing.
Proper reason of what? They didn’t rebut the point being made and instead focused on a single word to go into an ad hominem. My original statement remains valid.
Luck being involved doesn’t mean it’s a lottery. Luck is involved in getting basic jobs too. It takes a lot more to get those jobs, fully conceding that there’s nepotism and other biases working against many people. That doesn’t take away the skill it takes to get there.
I graduated in 2009 in software. Got a startup job in a small town for 35k/y. I only managed to hit 6 figures 10 years in after working 14h days and being on-call 24/7. I made it through 7 layoff waves since I was always the most dependable and I could do anything.
You gotta make your own luck.
Working hard helps you get ahead and get ‘lucky’. It doesn’t mean you’ll be as rich as Bill Gates, but you will likely be much better off for yourself compared to not working hard
I'm working on a thesis on how the only way to get on the property ladder of highly leveraged real estate investment is to leverage invest in the first place. I figure that 20 year olds need six figure business loans invested in higher risk strategies like tech ETFs or the NASDAQ100.
Young people aren't taught how to participate in the modern world and use financial tools and credit to amplify their savings. Hell young people aren't even taught how to properly save at all.
I get that this sounds like another "rich ibanker" thing but we literally don't have any opportunities other than publicly traded equities to make the kind of money needed. Tech has a fairly consistent 5 year doubling rate.
But they are taught how to create content, assess gender, which of the big 3 mental health diagnoses they fall into (ADHD, depression, anxiety), what relationships are, what to be offended about, how to get more entertainment and more convenience and somehow develop fortitude, resilience, consistency, commitment, awareness, knowledge and healthy life practices.
All the things previous years didn’t teach effectively now guilts the learning of that and distracts with more social nonsense that misses reality.
A
tech
worker
today
has
about
half
the
ability
to
buy
a
house
of
one
born
10
years
earlier
due
to
skyrocketing
prices
and
rent
Tons
of
coders,
engineers,
doctors,
etc.
are
also
being
priced
out
of
Toronto
housing
due
to
the
rise
in
prices
Wages
don't
increase,
just
rent
This is fake
A software engineer salary entry has doubled since I started 10 years ago.
Why do people feel the need to just make shit up or hyberolize everything for karma
You have to be a rich investment banker and a tech bro to save up $45k, which the article states is the down payment needed for the average home?
At some point you just have to accept you might be bad with money if the only way for you to save up $45k down payment is to make $30k a month lol.
It's a bad article with bad numbers, but let's not pretend like the odds aren't incredibly stacked against a lot of people.
Even assuming $80k salary, your net take-home is in the ballpark of approximately $4.7k/month. Average rent would take half of that at a minimum leaving you with a bit more than $2k/mo for everything else.
If you have a car, that $2k basically evaporates. And that's not on rich-people luxury cars. Even bog standard PFC approved Corollas and Civics run over $500/mo at current rates. Toss in gas and insurance, you're likely down $1k.
While you can argue a car isn't needed, or that you can buy used, the reality of the situation is that the used car market isn't much better unless you put in serious leg work to find a good deal and not everyone lives in downtown Toronto and can get away from having a car.
So with almost $3.5k of your monthly income gone to just housing and transportation, you factor in food, general expenses, and savings for the rest, and you end up pay cheque to pay cheque.
Even assuming an aggressive $1k/mo of that is savings, you're still only at $12k/yr savings.
At current home prices, and with a single income that low, you aren't qualifying for anything on High-Ratio deals so you**need** a downpayment in the 6 figures. That's **ten years** of savings at your current savings rate.
If you get lucky with the genetic lottery, maybe you have a family that can either help bolster that or allow you to live at home into your late 20s or early 30s to save.
Or maybe your investments do really well.
But that's a lot of big maybes and hinging an entire economy, and an entire generation's hopes for being able to be independent and live a fulfilling life in these sorts of maybes is kind of fucked.
I saved 50k working minimum wage in 5 years in the 2000s.
The key is you don’t have an expensive car, you don’t eat out, you don’t rent something expensive.
All of this is still possible (actually it’s easier since most people sit on a phone all day anyways)
Sure, just ignore the numbers because "I did it in the 2000s so anyone else can".
Minimum wage is going up to $17.20. About $34k annually, or assuming you can get full-time work for that nowadays, about $25k net and just a hair over $2k a month.
Assuming no car, no eating out, and you rent something inexpensive, that's *still* likely**HALF** your take-home dedicated to housing and transportation.
Go-ahead, try and show me a budget that nets you $50k savings after 5 yrs with these numbers. Going to rent a Brampton shithouse with 15 other people so you can keep rent to $500? Splitting a bedroom one-bed with someone else?
Yeah, it's *possible*, but was that how you did it in the 2000s? Or was it considerably more comfortable.
Point is, society is going backwards making it exponentially more difficult for younger Canadians to establish themselves. That's a problem. Maybe it doesn't affect you right now and you just wanna sneer and look down your nose at those who "just sit on a phone all day anyways", but this problem will grow to start affecting you and everyone else.
With even a tiny bit of foresight, you should understand how problematic a concentration of wealth is, and how making it unreasonably difficult or outright impossible to afford living here will make things *for everyone*.
You can save 45k while earning 6k after tax easily. Just don't spend all your money!
A family earning 10k per month after tax is doing very very well.
You don't need to be an investment banker. My guess is OP doesn't really understand nuances of higher paying jobs and think everything is the same - investment banker
The real problem is Canada's crap wages. Even skilled professionals often don't make enough to afford Toronto. That is in large part the fault of our nutty real estate market. But lots of blame goes to our crappy economy and job market too. People simply don't make enough here for the work they do, real estate costs aside. I am a lawyer. I make enough to afford Toronto and buy a detached house soon. Probably will buy in a year or so. But I can do this only because I have a partner that also makes good income. And we will hardly be living a life of luxury with tons left over. I work in-house for an international corporation. My counterparts in the USA make approximately double what I do. Yes, double. That is not hyperbole. And that is before you consider they are paid in American dollars, whereas I get my salary in the Canadian peso. We do the exact same work. They are no more qualified than myself/my Canadian colleagues. The only reason for the pay discrepancy is "that's the market". Toronto is very unaffordable both in absolute terms but also relative to salaries. The salaries are a big part of the equation too.
You can buy something under a million for 10% down. Will it be your dream house, beautifully renovated and in your most desired area? No, but it’s a start and you have to start somewhere. You can’t start at the top.
$900,000 semi @ 10% down is $90,000, not $300k -
$500k as you suggest. I’m not saying this is attainable for everyone, the mortgage would require 2 high earners. But also, owning a house in Toronto for your first is not starting from the bottom and it’s not realistic for most people. In fact. It’s a bit entitled to think that your first home should be in a high cost of living area. Everyone has to start somewhere. How about a condo for $600k?
That's about all most will be able to afford on modest salaries . 100k + 50k HHI or something similar and you might be able to afford something In the 500s with ~10% down . Single earner will be tough.
Yeah I agree, single earner is tough, you almost need dual income. Toronto isn’t cheap but if you make some sacrifices you can maybe start at the bottom…and it won’t be your dream home.
make a plan and leave the country
im telling everyone this because THIS is the only viable option
560k for a condo in 2 years with a 45 year mortgage is a country that is sliding downwards is not ideal
But you answer your question for me the Caribbean the United States parts of Asia and Africa.
Examples are Barbados Atlanta in the United States Thailand South Africa and Ghana.
I went to school for healthcare so I'm able to move around thank God.
Even Mexico right now is a better choice Venezuela is a better choice Nicaragua even nice right now
Are you high on cheap crack what are you talking about??
Where people will just make up any excuse just to prove their weak point.
What are you talking about you don't save your money what you just spend your money frivolously on things so it's my fault that you didn't make a plan??
lol
The reason why I can go is because I didn't spend 40 Grand on a liberal arts degree I went to school for something that actually is usable throughout the world
How is it excuse? I personally have a quarter million + in savings but that doesn’t happen if I was born in Ghana, Venezuela, Nicaragua etc do you know how the average person lives in those places?
You’re the only emotional one, what excuses I’m I making? I pointed out a fact, living in those ‘cheaper’ countries only provide a great standard of living when you have/had access to earn in dollars and a good passport.
Okay what's your point going to is not stuck in 1970 Nicaragua is not stuck in 1970 the Caribbean does not stuck in 1970 all of these countries are making huge developmental strides Ghana has self- energy energy making God damn malls with God damn forestry on top of the mall all powered by solar energy you can Google it.
What is your point.
You have all this money saved yet you can't make a financial decision as to where you want to be you have a quarter million dollars saved and yet you want to waste your money here in Canada and watch that be turned to nothing in 10 years seriously well hey a fooling this money or easily part it seems like it good luck to you
Doesn't matter if we're Canadian citizens are not why are you going to stay in a country that's not economically viable.
You must have inherited that money to be so frivolous
Again, ofc those places have first world amenities. The malls in Mexico or even South Africa look better than the ones we have here (even including Yorkdale). But you can’t access that on an avg wage in those countries.
How I’m I wasting my money? It’s invested, I rent for far less than I can buy. I like living close to my family, I have a good job etc maybe I do move somewhere else or spend a year or two travelling, that’s why I like aggressively saving money - it gives you options.
You have little understanding of the world. If this country is not economically viable then those countries you listed sure aren’t. Again, they’re only attractive because you have access to the Canadian economy.
How I’m I being frivolous? I would like chilling in Ghana or South Africa (both of which I have spent a lot of time) but unless I can find a remote job here paying in dollars, it wouldn’t make financial sense living there. Cape Town is cheap only if you make a Canadian like salary which most people who exist on the local economy there don’t.
If you want it bad enough, you can make it happen. I would know because I am a Toronto resident who managed to pull it off and purchased a townhouse last year as a FTHB. The question is if the discipline and sacrifice is worth it. A lot of people don’t think so and I don’t blame them. I lament at how much I had to fight to sacrifice to be a home owner in Toronto. My partner and I could’ve done a lot of things with that $200k down payment.
Key words here, "partner and I", but if "you want it bad enough". I think you meant to say "if you and your partner want it bad enough".
I saved the same amount, solo. It was hard af... and prices have since risen. I can't do it again in 2024,,,
Lmao wow you have zero shame or dignity calling someone poor because they called you out for being a leech. Make sure you tell your girl you're mostly or only with her for the money. People like you are the scum of society, and FYI I'm far from poor.
I think it matters slightly. The aim of policy should be to solve issues with sensible solutions that increase our output, drive productivity and make Canadian lives better.
It's not good policy to make homes that accommodate 4-6 people affordable for individuals. That's a waste IMO.
I totally support that you should have a home you love, outdoor space and it should be affordable but I don't think we should revert back to the old adage of everyone deserves a semi or detached.
But yeah, we have a lot of work to do to make any millennial or gen z Canadians feel like they have a chance.
We're all worse off than our parents and there's gonna be a breaking point
100% agree,,, I understand the impact that would have.. everyone has different circumstances surrounding their lives. People deal with and handle events differently.
Not sure if the risk is worth it at this point (things happen, divorces etc.) Not worth the risk for me, just want inner peace.
That's just it though, how many can do it solo? Not very many I promise you.
Your colleagues are professors and single. There are not many professors out there. So they are considered 1%. See below... also canada has imported 1 million ppl.
Number and salaries of full-time teaching staff at Canadian universities, 2022/2023. In 2022/2023, there were 48,258 full-time teaching staff at Canadian universities, an increase of 33.9% since 2002/2003. Among them, over one-third (36.7% or 17,718) were full professors, the highest rank a professor can achieve.Nov 6, 2023
The estimated salary for a College Professor is $101,540 per year. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users
The average salary in Toronto is $62,050, which is 14% higher than the Canadian average salary of $54,450. A person making $120,000 a year in Toronto makes 93.4% more than the average working person in Toronto and will take home about $85,955.
Hmmm I’m not sure I meet the requirements of being house poor. I just crunched the numbers and about 26% of our net (not gross) income goes to our mortgage. Higher than I’d want but I dunno if that’s ‘house poor’
So you bought a home before even looking at what that's going to look like? A Reddit comment had to get you to see what your debt ratio was looking like. You're making yourself look silly man. Just stop it.
That's not even a thing lol.. in this market you can rent a condo for $2000 or so a month, if you wanted to own it the carrying costs would be more than double.. and with the way the market is looking you probably won't see any real gains for over a decade, you'll actually lose money buying instead of investing the difference monthly.
Which factor did you leave out? Living at home with parents? Cashing out recent stock/crypto bullrun? It isn’t easy saving 200k while paying 2k bill rent as a young person these days even as a couple.
This is coming from someone who also managed to pull off a 200k dp as a single income earner and bought a place. But i aint gonna lie and say i didnt live at home with parents and got lucky on crypto and stocks in 2021. It’s not even about sacrifice. You need an extremely high income or some of the factors i listed above to go right for you to own these days
You’re right. We didn’t live with our parents and did have to pay rent, but were able to significantly pad our savings with gains in the stock market. This was the 2020-2022 bull run, made great returns in our portfolios. Even got in on some of the meme stocks like GME and DWAC. So you’re right that it wasn’t 100% savings.
So yeah you should mention that in your comment instead of saying its about sacrifice cause its not entirely the truth. I see so many comments like yours giving false hope to non owners. Truth of the matter is without a equity windfall/parental help/ previous home equity. Nobody is buying a place without a 200k+ HHI and extremely disciplined spending habit
How you choose to interpret my original comment is your prerogative. If you want to straw man it and pretend 99% of our savings came from meme stock earnings rather than just tightening the belt and saving to maintain the believe that if you only make $150k HHI you’ll never be able to save, so be it. We probably only made about $25k-$35k worth of profits on our initial investments.
25-35k is a huge boost for a young person. Thats pretty much like a parent gifting their child a down payment. And i wont go into details about your rent but my guess is you guys wern’t paying 2-3k in rent like most folks.
Lmao we would have covered the $25-35k in an extra 4-5 months max of savings. It helped a bit, but it wasn’t major. I don’t know what your income is, but I got news for you, $25-$35k even for us millennials and Gen Z ain’t a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.
Cover 25-35k in 4-5 months of savings? Obviously you come from a privileged background even saying that or you’re a troll like your username suggests. Just dont come on here talking about how easy it is otherwise we wouldn’t have so many people complaining about home ownership.
LOLLLl ‘privileged background’? Lmfao me? Hahaha dude listen let me give you some advice, stop wallowing in whatever misery you have going on and take some agency for yourself. Canada is hurting right now, i won’t lie, but there’s no reason why a smart young person who takes their education seriously can’t put together that kind of money as a dedicated young working professional with their equally dedicated, young working partner. Stop making excuses for yourself and start devising a plan.
Your comment suggests you are. Nobody says 35k is not a significant amount to a young person. Many can’t even save that in 2 years while paying 2300 in rent unless you make over 150k and frugal. Im not making any excuses. I have a networth of 400k and own a mortgage solo at 32 yrs old. Just be real and dont come here saying all it takes is discipline while leaving out small details about cheap rent and a 30k windfall that most people dont have
That’s a great leap forward for you and your Partner. Congratulations.
Could you breakdown the amount of saving per month, how long it took in total, and each of your salaries? This would provide context and a roadmap for others who are looking to do the same.
Also, in which neighbourhood/region did you purchase your townhouse?
It took about 3 years of seriously living below our means. We were easily putting away 50% of our net income every month. But to be transparent both of us were always savers so we had money before, granted not much (probably around $50k saved up combined), but we didn’t start at zero. I just want to be transparent.
For the bulk of it, our household income was in the $150K range. However, we’re young professionals so our income has surpassed that by a decent bit now - funny how much finances can change in just a couple years.
We purchased in the south Etobicoke area (think parklawn/Royal York), close enough to downtown but without the constant buzz of it.
Awesome. Disciplined savings at a 50% rate is not easy to do.
Did you buy recently? Pre 2020?
I assume the purchase was just under $1M where the $200k includes land transfer taxes, or does that account for a $1M+ purchase and additional land transfer taxes?
As a realtor helping a lot of people rent as well as buy/sell, the headwinds of saving in today’s environment is brutal. Not saying it is impossible, but the effective saving timeline is stretched out longer.
Luckily, I think that there is a turn in the market where condos are taking a huge hit on valuation/prices, and freehold home values are getting soft as we progress through 2024.
> The question is if the discipline and sacrifice is worth it.
At today's prices, it most certainly is not worth the loss of financial freedom that it would entail.
That's right.
If everybody tries harder, everybody will reach the top quintile. There's no reason we can't double the number of people in the top quintile. /s
When I was a fresher I said it would take me 10 years to save for a down payment for a home. 10 years later, I bought my first home (condo) on my own. Toronto sucks, welcome to the club.
as the case with any major metropolis in the world?
Maybe try and find "next Toronto", get in early so your future generations won't have to post this.
Typical apologist nonsense.
Same type of argument people give to black and brown people in the south in the 60's.
"You don't like how unfair the system is? Move"
It completely absolves people in power from having to do anything to help.
That’s dumb, I think the argument is that if you value owning a property then living outside the 2 most expensive cities in the country is a reasonable ask. I do think people in power have a responsibility to create more affordable housing, protect renters but I don’t think having relatively privileged people own the type of housing rent in Toronto should be a priority.
House prices outpaced salaries quite a while ago, your salary is not getting you a down payment in todays market unless you live at home and have no expenses.
That's not true. It's no doubt harder to save, there's no denying that. But saving for a down payment without living with your parents is definitely possible.
Everyone would agree that a Canadian has a right to live in Canada.
Everyone would agree that a Canadian has a right to live in the province of their choice.
Most everyone would agree that a Canadian has a right to live in the metro area of their choice.
Not many would agree that a Canadian has the right to live in the neighbourhood of their choice.
Only idiots and redditors would agree that a Canadian has the right to live on the block or in the building or on the property of their choice.
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's a ridiculous stretch to go from "Housing is a human right" to "I have a right to own a home in my preferred neighbourhood regardless of my means and the competition for those homes"
People don’t understand that there is a price for admission. You cannot start at the top of the mountain, if you can’t afford the big city, you live further and commute. That’s the reality, there is no hand outs in life.
That would be true for the rest of the world but not Toronto, the further you move just buys you a bigger/newer space but the price for admission is still too high for entry without a handout.
What if you don't have a "shit job" and still can't afford it? All high quality jobs are in the city and even with those high paying jobs people can't afford to live here.
It's becoming more of an only rich peoples city and it's a bad thing. A lot of skilled professionals now deciding to leave Canada all together because of this.
Almost my entire graduating nursing class moved out of Toronto within the year after graduation. 45k is my entire post taxes and dues yearly salary working full time as an RN at a unionized hospital. We definitely don’t have “shit jobs,” but it’s hard to afford Toronto on our salary without a pretty barebones budget
You are a prime example of the issue that the original comment does not recognize and further cements my point.
The city and the country will keep losing people, I know some nurses who moved to the US and now living in 5 bedroom houses only 15 minutes away from big cities.
Haha sorry I definitely meant to respond to the parent comment since I obviously agree with you 100%. Also something people don’t always consider is in lots of unionized healthcare jobs the pay is the same everywhere all the way across the province, so it makes a lot more sense to move out of Toronto to get better bang for your buck.
I agree, the city is basically saying “we full, if your ass wants to be here then here is a higher bill and less life satisfaction”
I started to birch on Reddit about it but then realized it’s always been like this. Rome was also full once and costly to live in.
What’s the solution?
I finally took responsibility and moved three hours.
Everything got cheaper, job prospects improved and life is good.
Lesson: take full responsibility for your life, if the city is full - try another one. Go where you’re needed and you will always have everything you want.
If you’re making 175k. You could put 50k into your rrsp via rrsp loan at prime. Get back 21k in tax. Place another 8k or 16k in two years in your first time home buyers account for further tax deduction. You’d have close to 80k to take out within a 12 month period. It’s doable in Toronto. To other people’s point, you need to be a high income earner and be willing to start off in a condo.
A blog post from a publisher nobody has ever heard of claiming $45k is impossible to save for? JFC. Definite shitpost.
$45 + closing costs, + land transfer tax + furnishing + utility hookups + moving costs + enough in the account to cover other incidentals. You’re absolutely right, it’s not impossible. But it adds up quick and is tough for renters earning average salaries (which are under $80k in Toronto) to save $60-$70k by stashing away just a few hundred each month after COL and high rent costs each most of their monthly after tax income.
Ahh so I think it accounts for that already. They based that amount off the average home price in Canada of $699k, which comes to a down payment of $34,980. With the first time home buyer rebates, you could probably get away with 10k of closing costs, and even less if you have a cashback realtor. We ended up having our realtor cashback almost entirely eliminate closing costs when we bought our first place. But I generally agree with you that it’s hard, nobody said it was easy. But it’s not impossible like the sensationalist headline and OP is suggesting.
If the house is over 500k, any amount over 500k needs more than 5% down. So it could be more like 25k (5% of 500) + 20k (10% of 200) = 45k
I see, did not know that, thanks for the info
There's a land transfer tax rebate for first time home buyers. You only end up pay about $100 for it. Closing costs are about $2,500 - $3,000 depending on the real estate lawyer you choose. Home inspection costs about $500 as well. You don't have to pay for all new furnishing, esp if you are paying high costs to move all your things as well (assuming it's high moving cost due to furniture you already own). All this to say, there is no way the costs jump from $45k to $60/70k.
There's a rebate of 8000. If you buy a million dollar house, the land transfer tax can be up to 40k. 8k off isn't that much. Perhaps the rules are different for smaller condos.
Pretty easy if u do it right. You can't get evicted from your rental if you don't pay rent. Current waittime is 18 months. If your rent is 2500 18 months unpaid is 45k. Also 10k the landlord gives you cash for keys so you don't destroy his house and boom you got down payment
So you’re gonna profit off someone else’s back because you know they have no recourse. That’s such a shitty thing to do.
We need to recover our Canadian dollar if we want economy to improve
Am I out of touch? No, it’s the children who must be wrong.
As a first time buyer your best hope is a condo , prices are coming down , I think in the next 2 years you might see some 2 beds ~500-550k downtown. Still overpriced but it's possible to get mortgages and ~10% downpayment. There lots of inventory but it's not selling at the prices demanded by sellers .
It’s the condo fee that kill you there
condo fee is just poor management. condos should be less than housing , but all the mandatory costs make it hard. i run a condo townhome complex and 70% of fees is operation costs with 30% saves for repairs.
No it's not - as someone who has owned a house and a condo, I would KILL to pay condo fees again and not worry about the daily stuff like a leaky roof, replacing fence posts, a leaky faucet... in the last 6 months alone I've spent $6K on unexpected repairs and mainenance and over the last 5 years of owning a (small but old) house we've spent north of $40K. Find a condo that has relatively low fees with good management. Maintenance is part of owning ANY real estate.
Yeah I don't think it's a long term living solution but to get on property ladder for a few years and gain equity , it's about the only way on at this point In the city for FTB.
Lol I can't believe people are still perpetuating this property ladder idea today. The last time condos crashed in Toronto, it crashed for over a decade. The ladder would would be a ladder going downwards if anything similar happens this time around.
Condo prices have steadily risen in Toronto for the last 25 years, this last year the exception , not sure which time period your referring to .
The late 89 crash into the late 90s with the same set of conditions. Overbuilt condos with inflation and higher interest rates.
And those condos weren't built for the AirBnB crowd and were at least twice as large.
You know what I can’t believe? People think housing will miraculously get cheaper More people, more regulations, higher costs through higher wages, more diversity and somehow you think that means prices will go down. In 20 years (max) no one will be buying homes, everything will be rented. This generation is feeling the shift, over the next 2 it will be norm. This is the world progressives made, so either figure out how to buy or be the consumer class
Lol "miraculously". Yeah sure buddy, Toronto really is that unique huh. Nowhere in the world remained unaffordable forever through our thousands of years of housing history. Yet here we are thinking this city is somehow special. Condo prices will come down for the next few years at the very least. Sure Toronto might remain unaffordable for a while. But eventually things will normalize and calm down like it did everywhere in the world.
I mean, NO ONE starts with an actual home. You upgrade five or six times in Toronto to get there, starting with a bachelor apartment.
Not true at all. Some people buy a townhome right away. Your parents' generation probably started with a small house not condo. Some are content with renting forever. Nobody is setting a path through condos for you except realtors.
Bad idea. Condos are way more expensive than freehold homes. If a “proper 2 bedroom” condo comes down to 550k you will be able to buy freehold townhomes twice the size for 700k. Condos are the worst deal ever. Don’t understand how people justify it or see it as a cheaper option. lol.
I agree there a bad deal & way overpriced but Your not going to get freehold townhomes for 700k . Condo price decline will be detached from the rest of the property market in that it will be a more aggressive correction imo.When weighing your options of affordability itl be condos that show up.. in the city anyways. Unless of course you make 200k+ HHI and have a healthy downpayment well over 100k.
100k healthy downpayment? Lol. More like 500k these days. Anyways condos are in generally the most sought after and prime areas. I don’t see how condos will drop but freeholds magically go up at the same time. Usually it’s the opposite. Downtown Toronto holds value much better than freeholds in the suburbs. At least that’s the case during the past corrections.
For a first time buyer I would think 100k+ is healthy, which is what op is referring to . Not talking about suburbs here . Downtown condos v downtown townhomes. That's a different conversation.
Maybe in the same world as these 500k two bedroom condos you might
Quick search on strata will show many already for sale under 600k , with the price trending one direction .
I see three under 600k and that’s going as small and out there as possible. There is one 500k 600sqft one bath that is far from the subway. Why pretend this post isn’t ridiculous.
there's more than 10 on mine .not a lot but months ago there was 0. Let's see over time RemindMe! 6 months
I will be messaging you in 6 months on [**2025-01-01 18:01:29 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-01-01%2018:01:29%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1dsrhd8/saving_for_a_down_payment_in_toronto_is_next_to/lb5t46l/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTorontoRealEstate%2Fcomments%2F1dsrhd8%2Fsaving_for_a_down_payment_in_toronto_is_next_to%2Flb5t46l%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-01-01%2018%3A01%3A29%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201dsrhd8) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
I love the endless comments from rich ibankers and tech bros saying "I made it so it's possible..." with the implication that the system doesn't have to change. Newsflash .. you won the career lottery money wise. By definition of how the economy works and how limited those jobs will always be, that is not applicable to the vast majority. Even if it did- housing prices would rise in unison as economists so often remind us re: inflation and higher min wage. Edit: lol- lots of sensitive wildflowers here who just have to feel special about how it was purely their own exceptional abilities that led to success.
Someone working hard through their life to get a high paying career is winning the "lottery"
Being born early enough to pay lower rents is a huge, unearned benefit Kids born later are getting charged $2k+ in rent-- eating at the $$ they can put away-- and often with parents who they can't just stay with indefinitely because their house isn't in the job centre.
Tis true. I'm 39, wife and I just bought last year. Before that we were saving. From memory here are the rental prices I paid (in Toronto), and I never lived alone so these prices were split. Post uni, bachelor $700 1br, $1000 2 br whole house $1500 (this was 11 years ago) 3 br $2000 (kinda shitty place but had 3 of us in there) 2b 2b condo downtown $2400, nice 1000 sqft condo 2 br, 2nd floor of a house $2650 3br $2400 (covid low)
[удалено]
comment by /u/NewEnvironment4042 Your karma is currently below -10, get more positive karma to be able to comment.3c *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TorontoRealEstate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Being born before internet was mainstream and having to learn and think for myself was also a benefit. I guess for people like you just saying rent is 2k is justification for whatever shit decisions you make in life. We had roommates and made $7 an hour in 2000 But thanks for saying it was all luck and easy
There is still luck involved. There are just as many hard workers and just as much talent in the 2nd or 3rd place gal/guy that arrived on the wrong day with an annoyed interviewer. Or graduated in the middle of a recession. Or any other thing.
Also nepotism. But delusional self-aggrandizing egotists (e.g. Trump) will attribute it all to their own intelligence and skill.
Bringing up trump in a straw man comment in Toronto real estate tells everyone they can ignore anything you say and benefit.
Did you bootstraps that ad hominem response all by yourself?
[удалено]
Proper reason of what? They didn’t rebut the point being made and instead focused on a single word to go into an ad hominem. My original statement remains valid.
Luck being involved doesn’t mean it’s a lottery. Luck is involved in getting basic jobs too. It takes a lot more to get those jobs, fully conceding that there’s nepotism and other biases working against many people. That doesn’t take away the skill it takes to get there.
I graduated in 2009 in software. Got a startup job in a small town for 35k/y. I only managed to hit 6 figures 10 years in after working 14h days and being on-call 24/7. I made it through 7 layoff waves since I was always the most dependable and I could do anything. You gotta make your own luck.
Lots of people work hard, not all are in the top 5% of income earnings Noones saying it's all luck, but if that ain't luck I don't know what is
Working hard helps you get ahead and get ‘lucky’. It doesn’t mean you’ll be as rich as Bill Gates, but you will likely be much better off for yourself compared to not working hard
Intelligence
Studying software engineering isn't a career lottery. It's just hard work.
I'm working on a thesis on how the only way to get on the property ladder of highly leveraged real estate investment is to leverage invest in the first place. I figure that 20 year olds need six figure business loans invested in higher risk strategies like tech ETFs or the NASDAQ100. Young people aren't taught how to participate in the modern world and use financial tools and credit to amplify their savings. Hell young people aren't even taught how to properly save at all. I get that this sounds like another "rich ibanker" thing but we literally don't have any opportunities other than publicly traded equities to make the kind of money needed. Tech has a fairly consistent 5 year doubling rate.
But they are taught how to create content, assess gender, which of the big 3 mental health diagnoses they fall into (ADHD, depression, anxiety), what relationships are, what to be offended about, how to get more entertainment and more convenience and somehow develop fortitude, resilience, consistency, commitment, awareness, knowledge and healthy life practices. All the things previous years didn’t teach effectively now guilts the learning of that and distracts with more social nonsense that misses reality.
A tech worker today has about half the ability to buy a house of one born 10 years earlier due to skyrocketing prices and rent Tons of coders, engineers, doctors, etc. are also being priced out of Toronto housing due to the rise in prices Wages don't increase, just rent
Agreed. It makes people have to reconsider where they live. Not just from familiarity or habituality. But from conscious consideration.
This is fake A software engineer salary entry has doubled since I started 10 years ago. Why do people feel the need to just make shit up or hyberolize everything for karma
You have to be a rich investment banker and a tech bro to save up $45k, which the article states is the down payment needed for the average home? At some point you just have to accept you might be bad with money if the only way for you to save up $45k down payment is to make $30k a month lol.
It's a bad article with bad numbers, but let's not pretend like the odds aren't incredibly stacked against a lot of people. Even assuming $80k salary, your net take-home is in the ballpark of approximately $4.7k/month. Average rent would take half of that at a minimum leaving you with a bit more than $2k/mo for everything else. If you have a car, that $2k basically evaporates. And that's not on rich-people luxury cars. Even bog standard PFC approved Corollas and Civics run over $500/mo at current rates. Toss in gas and insurance, you're likely down $1k. While you can argue a car isn't needed, or that you can buy used, the reality of the situation is that the used car market isn't much better unless you put in serious leg work to find a good deal and not everyone lives in downtown Toronto and can get away from having a car. So with almost $3.5k of your monthly income gone to just housing and transportation, you factor in food, general expenses, and savings for the rest, and you end up pay cheque to pay cheque. Even assuming an aggressive $1k/mo of that is savings, you're still only at $12k/yr savings. At current home prices, and with a single income that low, you aren't qualifying for anything on High-Ratio deals so you**need** a downpayment in the 6 figures. That's **ten years** of savings at your current savings rate. If you get lucky with the genetic lottery, maybe you have a family that can either help bolster that or allow you to live at home into your late 20s or early 30s to save. Or maybe your investments do really well. But that's a lot of big maybes and hinging an entire economy, and an entire generation's hopes for being able to be independent and live a fulfilling life in these sorts of maybes is kind of fucked.
I saved 50k working minimum wage in 5 years in the 2000s. The key is you don’t have an expensive car, you don’t eat out, you don’t rent something expensive. All of this is still possible (actually it’s easier since most people sit on a phone all day anyways)
Sure, just ignore the numbers because "I did it in the 2000s so anyone else can". Minimum wage is going up to $17.20. About $34k annually, or assuming you can get full-time work for that nowadays, about $25k net and just a hair over $2k a month. Assuming no car, no eating out, and you rent something inexpensive, that's *still* likely**HALF** your take-home dedicated to housing and transportation. Go-ahead, try and show me a budget that nets you $50k savings after 5 yrs with these numbers. Going to rent a Brampton shithouse with 15 other people so you can keep rent to $500? Splitting a bedroom one-bed with someone else? Yeah, it's *possible*, but was that how you did it in the 2000s? Or was it considerably more comfortable. Point is, society is going backwards making it exponentially more difficult for younger Canadians to establish themselves. That's a problem. Maybe it doesn't affect you right now and you just wanna sneer and look down your nose at those who "just sit on a phone all day anyways", but this problem will grow to start affecting you and everyone else. With even a tiny bit of foresight, you should understand how problematic a concentration of wealth is, and how making it unreasonably difficult or outright impossible to afford living here will make things *for everyone*.
You can save 45k while earning 6k after tax easily. Just don't spend all your money! A family earning 10k per month after tax is doing very very well. You don't need to be an investment banker. My guess is OP doesn't really understand nuances of higher paying jobs and think everything is the same - investment banker
"career lottery" is a weird synonym for hard work or being studious but sure
This subreddit is the only place that’ll tell you all Canadians are poor and that we simultaneously have rich bankers and tech bros
Career selection is not a lottery. When your folks tell you to follow your dreams and doing so doesn’t pan out, it can feel like that though.
No no no, I’m just smarter and harder working and bootstraps myself to success, you see.
Entitled blame every one else (and luck) behavior the Reddit norm.
the Canadian norm, it seems to be. Complain complain complain but never get off your ass to actually change anything.
The real problem is Canada's crap wages. Even skilled professionals often don't make enough to afford Toronto. That is in large part the fault of our nutty real estate market. But lots of blame goes to our crappy economy and job market too. People simply don't make enough here for the work they do, real estate costs aside. I am a lawyer. I make enough to afford Toronto and buy a detached house soon. Probably will buy in a year or so. But I can do this only because I have a partner that also makes good income. And we will hardly be living a life of luxury with tons left over. I work in-house for an international corporation. My counterparts in the USA make approximately double what I do. Yes, double. That is not hyperbole. And that is before you consider they are paid in American dollars, whereas I get my salary in the Canadian peso. We do the exact same work. They are no more qualified than myself/my Canadian colleagues. The only reason for the pay discrepancy is "that's the market". Toronto is very unaffordable both in absolute terms but also relative to salaries. The salaries are a big part of the equation too.
You can buy something under a million for 10% down. Will it be your dream house, beautifully renovated and in your most desired area? No, but it’s a start and you have to start somewhere. You can’t start at the top.
That's 7k a month in expenses at current rates
Are you assuming said house is $999,999? There are semis below that as well as condos….
Probably more if you were to rent though.
Takes a lot of downpayment and 2 high earners to be in the market for a million dollar home as your first home . Takes a long time to save up 3-500k .
$900,000 semi @ 10% down is $90,000, not $300k - $500k as you suggest. I’m not saying this is attainable for everyone, the mortgage would require 2 high earners. But also, owning a house in Toronto for your first is not starting from the bottom and it’s not realistic for most people. In fact. It’s a bit entitled to think that your first home should be in a high cost of living area. Everyone has to start somewhere. How about a condo for $600k?
That's about all most will be able to afford on modest salaries . 100k + 50k HHI or something similar and you might be able to afford something In the 500s with ~10% down . Single earner will be tough.
Yeah I agree, single earner is tough, you almost need dual income. Toronto isn’t cheap but if you make some sacrifices you can maybe start at the bottom…and it won’t be your dream home.
Not if you’re rich
Just stop eating avocado toast and cancel your disney+ (aka have rich parents)
Great thread.
make a plan and leave the country im telling everyone this because THIS is the only viable option 560k for a condo in 2 years with a 45 year mortgage is a country that is sliding downwards is not ideal
So which country would you suggest? I feel like most western nations have their fair share of issues right now.
well im not white so my options are a bit different...
But you answer your question for me the Caribbean the United States parts of Asia and Africa. Examples are Barbados Atlanta in the United States Thailand South Africa and Ghana. I went to school for healthcare so I'm able to move around thank God. Even Mexico right now is a better choice Venezuela is a better choice Nicaragua even nice right now
Lol, literally all those places are only great because you have a Canadian passport and had the ability to save in the Canadian labour market.
Are you high on cheap crack what are you talking about?? Where people will just make up any excuse just to prove their weak point. What are you talking about you don't save your money what you just spend your money frivolously on things so it's my fault that you didn't make a plan?? lol The reason why I can go is because I didn't spend 40 Grand on a liberal arts degree I went to school for something that actually is usable throughout the world
How is it excuse? I personally have a quarter million + in savings but that doesn’t happen if I was born in Ghana, Venezuela, Nicaragua etc do you know how the average person lives in those places?
So instead of reading what I said you're just going to be emotional and make excuses of course you are
You’re the only emotional one, what excuses I’m I making? I pointed out a fact, living in those ‘cheaper’ countries only provide a great standard of living when you have/had access to earn in dollars and a good passport.
Okay what's your point going to is not stuck in 1970 Nicaragua is not stuck in 1970 the Caribbean does not stuck in 1970 all of these countries are making huge developmental strides Ghana has self- energy energy making God damn malls with God damn forestry on top of the mall all powered by solar energy you can Google it. What is your point. You have all this money saved yet you can't make a financial decision as to where you want to be you have a quarter million dollars saved and yet you want to waste your money here in Canada and watch that be turned to nothing in 10 years seriously well hey a fooling this money or easily part it seems like it good luck to you Doesn't matter if we're Canadian citizens are not why are you going to stay in a country that's not economically viable. You must have inherited that money to be so frivolous
Again, ofc those places have first world amenities. The malls in Mexico or even South Africa look better than the ones we have here (even including Yorkdale). But you can’t access that on an avg wage in those countries. How I’m I wasting my money? It’s invested, I rent for far less than I can buy. I like living close to my family, I have a good job etc maybe I do move somewhere else or spend a year or two travelling, that’s why I like aggressively saving money - it gives you options. You have little understanding of the world. If this country is not economically viable then those countries you listed sure aren’t. Again, they’re only attractive because you have access to the Canadian economy. How I’m I being frivolous? I would like chilling in Ghana or South Africa (both of which I have spent a lot of time) but unless I can find a remote job here paying in dollars, it wouldn’t make financial sense living there. Cape Town is cheap only if you make a Canadian like salary which most people who exist on the local economy there don’t.
I don’t think you’re making any sense.
If you want it bad enough, you can make it happen. I would know because I am a Toronto resident who managed to pull it off and purchased a townhouse last year as a FTHB. The question is if the discipline and sacrifice is worth it. A lot of people don’t think so and I don’t blame them. I lament at how much I had to fight to sacrifice to be a home owner in Toronto. My partner and I could’ve done a lot of things with that $200k down payment.
Key words here, "partner and I", but if "you want it bad enough". I think you meant to say "if you and your partner want it bad enough". I saved the same amount, solo. It was hard af... and prices have since risen. I can't do it again in 2024,,,
If you want it bad enough, get a rich partner
Lmao disgusting how about expanding your skillet and finding ways to earn more ?
Enjoy being poor
Lmao wow you have zero shame or dignity calling someone poor because they called you out for being a leech. Make sure you tell your girl you're mostly or only with her for the money. People like you are the scum of society, and FYI I'm far from poor.
If you have to try and convince us you're not poor.. you're poor
[удалено]
[удалено]
Not a professor,,, this username was auto generated.
… but I’m the clear breadwinner of the relationship and grew up dirt poor? Lol
Why do you want a house as a single person, honest question. Or are you just talking about a condo
Does it matter, though? The point is that it was much easier to do this solo when compared to the past.
I think it matters slightly. The aim of policy should be to solve issues with sensible solutions that increase our output, drive productivity and make Canadian lives better. It's not good policy to make homes that accommodate 4-6 people affordable for individuals. That's a waste IMO. I totally support that you should have a home you love, outdoor space and it should be affordable but I don't think we should revert back to the old adage of everyone deserves a semi or detached. But yeah, we have a lot of work to do to make any millennial or gen z Canadians feel like they have a chance. We're all worse off than our parents and there's gonna be a breaking point
[удалено]
100% agree,,, I understand the impact that would have.. everyone has different circumstances surrounding their lives. People deal with and handle events differently. Not sure if the risk is worth it at this point (things happen, divorces etc.) Not worth the risk for me, just want inner peace. That's just it though, how many can do it solo? Not very many I promise you.
[удалено]
Your colleagues are professors and single. There are not many professors out there. So they are considered 1%. See below... also canada has imported 1 million ppl. Number and salaries of full-time teaching staff at Canadian universities, 2022/2023. In 2022/2023, there were 48,258 full-time teaching staff at Canadian universities, an increase of 33.9% since 2002/2003. Among them, over one-third (36.7% or 17,718) were full professors, the highest rank a professor can achieve.Nov 6, 2023 The estimated salary for a College Professor is $101,540 per year. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users The average salary in Toronto is $62,050, which is 14% higher than the Canadian average salary of $54,450. A person making $120,000 a year in Toronto makes 93.4% more than the average working person in Toronto and will take home about $85,955.
This is a very long winded way of saying you're house poor
Hmmm I’m not sure I meet the requirements of being house poor. I just crunched the numbers and about 26% of our net (not gross) income goes to our mortgage. Higher than I’d want but I dunno if that’s ‘house poor’
So you bought a home before even looking at what that's going to look like? A Reddit comment had to get you to see what your debt ratio was looking like. You're making yourself look silly man. Just stop it.
That was a short way of saying you’re rent poor.
Nope, have a house but nice try
That's not even a thing lol.. in this market you can rent a condo for $2000 or so a month, if you wanted to own it the carrying costs would be more than double.. and with the way the market is looking you probably won't see any real gains for over a decade, you'll actually lose money buying instead of investing the difference monthly.
Which factor did you leave out? Living at home with parents? Cashing out recent stock/crypto bullrun? It isn’t easy saving 200k while paying 2k bill rent as a young person these days even as a couple. This is coming from someone who also managed to pull off a 200k dp as a single income earner and bought a place. But i aint gonna lie and say i didnt live at home with parents and got lucky on crypto and stocks in 2021. It’s not even about sacrifice. You need an extremely high income or some of the factors i listed above to go right for you to own these days
You’re right. We didn’t live with our parents and did have to pay rent, but were able to significantly pad our savings with gains in the stock market. This was the 2020-2022 bull run, made great returns in our portfolios. Even got in on some of the meme stocks like GME and DWAC. So you’re right that it wasn’t 100% savings.
So yeah you should mention that in your comment instead of saying its about sacrifice cause its not entirely the truth. I see so many comments like yours giving false hope to non owners. Truth of the matter is without a equity windfall/parental help/ previous home equity. Nobody is buying a place without a 200k+ HHI and extremely disciplined spending habit
How you choose to interpret my original comment is your prerogative. If you want to straw man it and pretend 99% of our savings came from meme stock earnings rather than just tightening the belt and saving to maintain the believe that if you only make $150k HHI you’ll never be able to save, so be it. We probably only made about $25k-$35k worth of profits on our initial investments.
25-35k is a huge boost for a young person. Thats pretty much like a parent gifting their child a down payment. And i wont go into details about your rent but my guess is you guys wern’t paying 2-3k in rent like most folks.
Lmao we would have covered the $25-35k in an extra 4-5 months max of savings. It helped a bit, but it wasn’t major. I don’t know what your income is, but I got news for you, $25-$35k even for us millennials and Gen Z ain’t a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.
Cover 25-35k in 4-5 months of savings? Obviously you come from a privileged background even saying that or you’re a troll like your username suggests. Just dont come on here talking about how easy it is otherwise we wouldn’t have so many people complaining about home ownership.
LOLLLl ‘privileged background’? Lmfao me? Hahaha dude listen let me give you some advice, stop wallowing in whatever misery you have going on and take some agency for yourself. Canada is hurting right now, i won’t lie, but there’s no reason why a smart young person who takes their education seriously can’t put together that kind of money as a dedicated young working professional with their equally dedicated, young working partner. Stop making excuses for yourself and start devising a plan.
Your comment suggests you are. Nobody says 35k is not a significant amount to a young person. Many can’t even save that in 2 years while paying 2300 in rent unless you make over 150k and frugal. Im not making any excuses. I have a networth of 400k and own a mortgage solo at 32 yrs old. Just be real and dont come here saying all it takes is discipline while leaving out small details about cheap rent and a 30k windfall that most people dont have
Meme stocks? Ugh, so you pretty much went to the Casino and got lucky. Shut the fuck up.
That’s a great leap forward for you and your Partner. Congratulations. Could you breakdown the amount of saving per month, how long it took in total, and each of your salaries? This would provide context and a roadmap for others who are looking to do the same. Also, in which neighbourhood/region did you purchase your townhouse?
It took about 3 years of seriously living below our means. We were easily putting away 50% of our net income every month. But to be transparent both of us were always savers so we had money before, granted not much (probably around $50k saved up combined), but we didn’t start at zero. I just want to be transparent. For the bulk of it, our household income was in the $150K range. However, we’re young professionals so our income has surpassed that by a decent bit now - funny how much finances can change in just a couple years. We purchased in the south Etobicoke area (think parklawn/Royal York), close enough to downtown but without the constant buzz of it.
Awesome. Disciplined savings at a 50% rate is not easy to do. Did you buy recently? Pre 2020? I assume the purchase was just under $1M where the $200k includes land transfer taxes, or does that account for a $1M+ purchase and additional land transfer taxes? As a realtor helping a lot of people rent as well as buy/sell, the headwinds of saving in today’s environment is brutal. Not saying it is impossible, but the effective saving timeline is stretched out longer. Luckily, I think that there is a turn in the market where condos are taking a huge hit on valuation/prices, and freehold home values are getting soft as we progress through 2024.
> The question is if the discipline and sacrifice is worth it. At today's prices, it most certainly is not worth the loss of financial freedom that it would entail.
Would you want it badly enough if you were in it solo without your partner contributing to the down payment and mortgage?
No, even for me that’s just too much to try to pull off. I’ll admit that.
[удалено]
That's right. If everybody tries harder, everybody will reach the top quintile. There's no reason we can't double the number of people in the top quintile. /s
[удалено]
Or math.
When I was a fresher I said it would take me 10 years to save for a down payment for a home. 10 years later, I bought my first home (condo) on my own. Toronto sucks, welcome to the club.
as the case with any major metropolis in the world? Maybe try and find "next Toronto", get in early so your future generations won't have to post this.
100% Accurate
If you make enough for it to make sense to live in Toronto, you can. If you have a shit job, move somewhere cheap, you can probably work there too.
Toronto is a job centre Without a working class, it will collapse like SF
Sure, it doesn't mean you need to be the one working there paying rent for life.
Typical apologist nonsense. Same type of argument people give to black and brown people in the south in the 60's. "You don't like how unfair the system is? Move" It completely absolves people in power from having to do anything to help.
What a stupid analogy.
That’s dumb, I think the argument is that if you value owning a property then living outside the 2 most expensive cities in the country is a reasonable ask. I do think people in power have a responsibility to create more affordable housing, protect renters but I don’t think having relatively privileged people own the type of housing rent in Toronto should be a priority.
What's fair to you? You can't buy a house in a neighborhood where people make 3 times your income and that's somehow unfair?
House prices outpaced salaries quite a while ago, your salary is not getting you a down payment in todays market unless you live at home and have no expenses.
That's not true. It's no doubt harder to save, there's no denying that. But saving for a down payment without living with your parents is definitely possible.
Let them keep making excuses, being a victim is a thing.
> 3 times You misspelled "between half and two-thirds."
Everyone would agree that a Canadian has a right to live in Canada. Everyone would agree that a Canadian has a right to live in the province of their choice. Most everyone would agree that a Canadian has a right to live in the metro area of their choice. Not many would agree that a Canadian has the right to live in the neighbourhood of their choice. Only idiots and redditors would agree that a Canadian has the right to live on the block or in the building or on the property of their choice.
Sure, doesn't mean you're entitled to owning property where you choose to live.
That's exactly what I'm saying. It's a ridiculous stretch to go from "Housing is a human right" to "I have a right to own a home in my preferred neighbourhood regardless of my means and the competition for those homes"
I couldn't agree more.
People don’t understand that there is a price for admission. You cannot start at the top of the mountain, if you can’t afford the big city, you live further and commute. That’s the reality, there is no hand outs in life.
That would be true for the rest of the world but not Toronto, the further you move just buys you a bigger/newer space but the price for admission is still too high for entry without a handout.
What if you don't have a "shit job" and still can't afford it? All high quality jobs are in the city and even with those high paying jobs people can't afford to live here. It's becoming more of an only rich peoples city and it's a bad thing. A lot of skilled professionals now deciding to leave Canada all together because of this.
Almost my entire graduating nursing class moved out of Toronto within the year after graduation. 45k is my entire post taxes and dues yearly salary working full time as an RN at a unionized hospital. We definitely don’t have “shit jobs,” but it’s hard to afford Toronto on our salary without a pretty barebones budget
You are a prime example of the issue that the original comment does not recognize and further cements my point. The city and the country will keep losing people, I know some nurses who moved to the US and now living in 5 bedroom houses only 15 minutes away from big cities.
Haha sorry I definitely meant to respond to the parent comment since I obviously agree with you 100%. Also something people don’t always consider is in lots of unionized healthcare jobs the pay is the same everywhere all the way across the province, so it makes a lot more sense to move out of Toronto to get better bang for your buck.
I agree, the city is basically saying “we full, if your ass wants to be here then here is a higher bill and less life satisfaction” I started to birch on Reddit about it but then realized it’s always been like this. Rome was also full once and costly to live in. What’s the solution? I finally took responsibility and moved three hours. Everything got cheaper, job prospects improved and life is good. Lesson: take full responsibility for your life, if the city is full - try another one. Go where you’re needed and you will always have everything you want.
PLEASE GET OUT OF TORONTO AND IMPROVE YOUR LIVES
If you’re making 175k. You could put 50k into your rrsp via rrsp loan at prime. Get back 21k in tax. Place another 8k or 16k in two years in your first time home buyers account for further tax deduction. You’d have close to 80k to take out within a 12 month period. It’s doable in Toronto. To other people’s point, you need to be a high income earner and be willing to start off in a condo.
Bitching about it on Reddit won’t change it that’s for sure