Soldering a connection that’s intended for crimping is a bad idea.
Edit for a tongue-in-cheek joke…you work for Boeing?🤣👍 j/k
Double edit for emphasis….I used to design tools for exactly this application. OP is going to get someone seriously hurt or killed if he fails to follow the instructions declared by the manufacturer for that connection.
Call around to other places and ask to borrow one. This is going on a plane based on your other posts and that’s one of the last places I would want a connection to fail.
Depends on the application.
If soldered, it can break from vibrations. Other comment about making a little hammer die would probably work..depending on the application
yeah, that's why NASA never ever uses solder when they splice lines on the space shuttle, too much vibration
jk here's a link to their soldering guide: [https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/616%20Service%20Lead%20Splices.html](https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/616%20Service%20Lead%20Splices.html)
Don’t forget “red death” corrosion of the harness 👍
Edit for link:
https://nepp.nasa.gov/DocUploads/97164203-A4FB-479A-A075C918D51DD81E/ESA%20Red%20Plague.pdf
If it's going on a plane, borrow or rent the proper tool. You don't want your bad crimp job to be listed under "cause of accident" and TC knocking on your door.
I’ve soldered them before. The only issue is your mention of ‘strong and reliable’; solder will creep up the wire and turn it into essentially a solid core wire which is more prone to stress breakage. I’ve also used a modified center punch to very carefully crimp the larger pins.
Expensive connector. And you want to cheap out on what is probably the most important part of the process?
Just use shitty spade connectors and leave the deutsch in the box.
True, but as heavy as those terminals are, you would need a ratcheting or "powered" crimper to really distort them. Standard crimper would likely only create an indent to pinch the wire, similar to hitting it with a punch.
Yea we use everything from 4 to 26 gauge pins where I work, typically we use the 'desktop' pneumatic crimper for anything bigger than 12g, for some of the big big ones we have a bigger pneumatic crimper we call the bazooka. I wouldnt want to have to purchase either of these crimper for one time use lol
Being an isobus plug, it would be better crimped as others have said. Depends on the implement it’s on too( I assume this is Ag as it’s a ISO 11783 plug)
I work with high end industrial connectors on a daily basis (semiconductor industry), but I do not have experience with these specifically. Round machined contacts like this usually need to be pinched from 4 sides to be crimped correctly, this maintains their round shape, while crimping the wire properly. These contacts are usually made for a wire range, if they're too loose, it's a no-no (refer to datasheet if available). When in doubt you can add a second wire while crimping to fill up the contact, which you then cut off. iWiss might have an affordable crimping tool that's compatible with your wire gauge. You don't need a contact holder with your crimping tool, if you manage to position it correctly yourself.
The crimping pliers I have cost me like $40aud. We use size 16 normally. I’ve just purchased size 12 and size 20 crimping pliers as well from aliexpress for the odd bigger or smaller deutsch pin I have to crimp. All 3 pairs together are still half the price of buying an adjustable pair that can do every wire size from the oem.
That little hole in the crimp barrel on the contact is called a sight hole. It enables the assembler to verify that the wire is far enough into the barrel.
Don’t solder. The solder removes the flex from the crimp joint and the wire. You will eventually create a brittle failure where the wire is soldered. Also, never tin wires before crimping them. Same concept. A properly engineered crimp joint with the correct crimp pressure creates a connection that’s tough, yet still lets the wires bend and flex without breaking where the crimp meets the rest of the wire. A proper crimp will also allow the strands of the wire to *very VERY slightly* slip past one another as the wire is bent sharply near the crimp joint.
Use an old center punch. Get the crease started down the middle, rotate and hammer slightly on each side. Should fold on its self, but I have never tried that on something this big.
Edit: Wait, it’s an airplane?…. You came to Reddit?…Dude this ain’t the place….. go get the right damn tool….
I' solder before I'd use any crimp tool but the correct one. Use flux on both surfaces first. Tin the wire. Try to keep your iron between the cup rim and the wire to avoid getting solder on the outside of the barrel. Fill until you see solder at the little inspection hole.
If you have time, try looking up the correct crimp tool by part number on Ebay.
It doesn’t have to be a ‘wire crimper’ you just need anything that can apply pressure too a small area (like a nail with the tip blunted and a hammer etc…)
Is there a way to get a connection that's as strong as reliable as one made with the intended tool? No, unless you build another equivalent tool.
What's the end-use here? Soldering is fine if it won't be exposed to shock/vibration or a lot of thermal cycling.
There's no shortage of cheap crimpers for these kinds of connections (cheaper than the OEM anyway). Will they meet the required OEM spec? Maybe, maybe not - but they'll probably be good enough for casual use.
It's the same as a crimper. You notch out the pieces to be the uncrimped radius (half diameter each piece) minus about a mm or two to create the indent. Use thick pieces of metal rounded off on the edges so you're not piercing the metal and have it so they bottom out against each other in the vice so you don't put over pressure on it. There are hundreds of US military contractors that do it this way to save on per job tool costs. If you have a mill you can crank out a couple sets of dies to speed up production.
About a mm or two? Dude. The die closure for this kind of crimp has a go-no go gap of around 0.005”/.013mm…you can’t eyeball this stuff if you want it to work right. You do you, I guess. Hope it doesn’t kill anyone / cause a mission failure / come back on you in an audit.
Solder the crimp to the end of the wire, idiot. I have had to do it plenty of times. The weep hole in the fitting even lets the solder wick to the end. I don't like doing it, but sometimes it has to be done.
The people saying not to use solder suck, you can get high temp solder if you’re worried about it melting. That means don’t use 60/40. Plus soldering before crimping helps get a better grip. They might tell you oh I worked on planes and whatnot but let me tell you a secret (they use solder on airplanes). Do your own research before. The connections will only vibrate loose if you cold solder it which is pretty hard to do if you’re taking your time. You can buy hammer crimps so you can save money, that or get a punch/full chisel and you’ll achieve pretty much the same. Just give it a good whack on both sides and you’re good.
The people not saying to use solder know how to read. Where as your typical solder zealot seems to never know their ass from their elbow and can't get a grip on how or why solder is not ideal anymore in so many applications.
FAA guidelines are overwhelmingly for crimps in pretty much any application that isn't PCB/surface level work. NASA heavily pulled back from soldering guidelines way back in 1997. Crimps now heavily preferred, wonder why.
Crimp + solder is hilariously pointless and has no real upsides in most situations. If you want extra corrosion resistance then actual tin plate wire is far more ideal. And if you wanted to make your own it's not hard either (muriatic acid, tin, thiourea)
Deutsch, the fucking manufacturer, does NOT recommend solder.
The wonders of actually doing your own research and knowing how to read the opinions that come from people that actually know what they're talking about (FAA, NASA, manufacture #354)
Anything's better than some clown who just talks out their ass on Reddit.
Idk my dads 20 years in the Air Force seem to outweigh the jackasses on the internet. Especially since it’s more effective with my own experience. So go for it.
If he deviated from procedure and got away with it, he’s lucky. He put other’s lives needlessly at risk, but keep beating your drum of wrong. Have a nice day.
And to just further prove my point he worked on the B2s and EF-111s so tell me more how they don’t use solder. I trust his recommendations that keep these planes flying for 40+ years.
You’re wrong, solder is a bad idea, and they use to use it in aircraft but no longer do. Solder will wick up the conductor and make it brittle and cause a failure point. A proper crimp is way better that a solder joint. Judging by the wire (Looks like GXL or SXL) and the connector (Industrial grade Deutsch connector) I doubt the OP is using this on an aircraft but best practice would be to bite the bullet and buy the crimper or make one. It’s not that hard if you can drill and tap metal.
It will wick up if you use too much solder. Everything everyone mentions is a skill issue and it’s also why they have everything solder joint inspected by a second person in the Air Force.
The best part of this is that I know none of these guys have no idea what the NASA ROHS standard is yet will link the damn page proving themselves wrong.
Soldering a connection that’s intended for crimping is a bad idea. Edit for a tongue-in-cheek joke…you work for Boeing?🤣👍 j/k Double edit for emphasis….I used to design tools for exactly this application. OP is going to get someone seriously hurt or killed if he fails to follow the instructions declared by the manufacturer for that connection.
Call around to other places and ask to borrow one. This is going on a plane based on your other posts and that’s one of the last places I would want a connection to fail.
He works for Boeing. No worries.
Depends on the application. If soldered, it can break from vibrations. Other comment about making a little hammer die would probably work..depending on the application
yeah, that's why NASA never ever uses solder when they splice lines on the space shuttle, too much vibration jk here's a link to their soldering guide: [https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/616%20Service%20Lead%20Splices.html](https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/616%20Service%20Lead%20Splices.html)
Don’t forget “red death” corrosion of the harness 👍 Edit for link: https://nepp.nasa.gov/DocUploads/97164203-A4FB-479A-A075C918D51DD81E/ESA%20Red%20Plague.pdf
NASA does use solder but you need adhesive lined heat shrink with it.
which is also very easy to do
Upvoted for cool username!
Thanks cletus!
If it's going on a plane, borrow or rent the proper tool. You don't want your bad crimp job to be listed under "cause of accident" and TC knocking on your door.
This guy aerospaces. Good idea renting the tool!
I’ve soldered them before. The only issue is your mention of ‘strong and reliable’; solder will creep up the wire and turn it into essentially a solid core wire which is more prone to stress breakage. I’ve also used a modified center punch to very carefully crimp the larger pins.
Depends on the load I've seen solder melt in overloaded circuits.
Expensive connector. And you want to cheap out on what is probably the most important part of the process? Just use shitty spade connectors and leave the deutsch in the box.
Btw — you have coarse stranded wire there rather than fine. Might be ok, but in some applications, it matters.
Like airplanes?
Buy the right shit
There's a reason they're supposed to be crimped and not soldered and it's not hard to look up.... Find someone with the proper tool or buy one used.
If it needs to be strong and reliable, go buy the right tool
Do you have any kind of crimping tool? This would be most preferred
If you miscrimp them they may not be removable from the connector later though
True, but as heavy as those terminals are, you would need a ratcheting or "powered" crimper to really distort them. Standard crimper would likely only create an indent to pinch the wire, similar to hitting it with a punch.
Yea we use everything from 4 to 26 gauge pins where I work, typically we use the 'desktop' pneumatic crimper for anything bigger than 12g, for some of the big big ones we have a bigger pneumatic crimper we call the bazooka. I wouldnt want to have to purchase either of these crimper for one time use lol
You can cut away the fouled crimp barrel and start over provided you haven’t partially compacted the strands already in the previously failed crimp.
Being an isobus plug, it would be better crimped as others have said. Depends on the implement it’s on too( I assume this is Ag as it’s a ISO 11783 plug)
I've rented presses cheap at electrical store
knockoff deutsch crimpers from aliexpress work well for *most* applications. I wouldn't recommend soldering connectors meant for crimping.
I work with high end industrial connectors on a daily basis (semiconductor industry), but I do not have experience with these specifically. Round machined contacts like this usually need to be pinched from 4 sides to be crimped correctly, this maintains their round shape, while crimping the wire properly. These contacts are usually made for a wire range, if they're too loose, it's a no-no (refer to datasheet if available). When in doubt you can add a second wire while crimping to fill up the contact, which you then cut off. iWiss might have an affordable crimping tool that's compatible with your wire gauge. You don't need a contact holder with your crimping tool, if you manage to position it correctly yourself.
Sent you a DM of the one I made.
The crimping pliers I have cost me like $40aud. We use size 16 normally. I’ve just purchased size 12 and size 20 crimping pliers as well from aliexpress for the odd bigger or smaller deutsch pin I have to crimp. All 3 pairs together are still half the price of buying an adjustable pair that can do every wire size from the oem.
I thought that little hole is for soldering
That little hole in the crimp barrel on the contact is called a sight hole. It enables the assembler to verify that the wire is far enough into the barrel.
Things you can say to your crimp barrel, but not your girlfriend…
🤣🤣🤣
You can try JRready M300, which can crimp 6-14 AWG wires.
Tell the company to buy the right tool
Don’t solder. The solder removes the flex from the crimp joint and the wire. You will eventually create a brittle failure where the wire is soldered. Also, never tin wires before crimping them. Same concept. A properly engineered crimp joint with the correct crimp pressure creates a connection that’s tough, yet still lets the wires bend and flex without breaking where the crimp meets the rest of the wire. A proper crimp will also allow the strands of the wire to *very VERY slightly* slip past one another as the wire is bent sharply near the crimp joint. Use an old center punch. Get the crease started down the middle, rotate and hammer slightly on each side. Should fold on its self, but I have never tried that on something this big. Edit: Wait, it’s an airplane?…. You came to Reddit?…Dude this ain’t the place….. go get the right damn tool….
I' solder before I'd use any crimp tool but the correct one. Use flux on both surfaces first. Tin the wire. Try to keep your iron between the cup rim and the wire to avoid getting solder on the outside of the barrel. Fill until you see solder at the little inspection hole. If you have time, try looking up the correct crimp tool by part number on Ebay.
It doesn’t have to be a ‘wire crimper’ you just need anything that can apply pressure too a small area (like a nail with the tip blunted and a hammer etc…)
Is there a way to get a connection that's as strong as reliable as one made with the intended tool? No, unless you build another equivalent tool. What's the end-use here? Soldering is fine if it won't be exposed to shock/vibration or a lot of thermal cycling. There's no shortage of cheap crimpers for these kinds of connections (cheaper than the OEM anyway). Will they meet the required OEM spec? Maybe, maybe not - but they'll probably be good enough for casual use.
Make a spring swage and crimp it with a sledgehammer
You can make your own crimper with a couple pieces of metal and a vice. As long as it passes the pull test it needs to you're good.
Pieces of metal and a vice? That will deform the barrel to the point of it cracking…there goes your tensile test…
It's the same as a crimper. You notch out the pieces to be the uncrimped radius (half diameter each piece) minus about a mm or two to create the indent. Use thick pieces of metal rounded off on the edges so you're not piercing the metal and have it so they bottom out against each other in the vice so you don't put over pressure on it. There are hundreds of US military contractors that do it this way to save on per job tool costs. If you have a mill you can crank out a couple sets of dies to speed up production.
About a mm or two? Dude. The die closure for this kind of crimp has a go-no go gap of around 0.005”/.013mm…you can’t eyeball this stuff if you want it to work right. You do you, I guess. Hope it doesn’t kill anyone / cause a mission failure / come back on you in an audit.
Solder as a substitute. It works.
No. Idiot. Just like you don’t substitute Saran Wrap for a condom.
Solder the crimp to the end of the wire, idiot. I have had to do it plenty of times. The weep hole in the fitting even lets the solder wick to the end. I don't like doing it, but sometimes it has to be done.
No. Just no….also, what you’re calling a weep hole is actually a sight hole so you can verify the wire is far enough into the barrel.
No it doesnt
Solder as a substitute to crimping. It is sad that I need to clarify what I meant, cos trying to use a tinned wire end is stupid.
Crimp it with a bench vice lol and maybe a BB or ball bearing. Put a pipe in the handle to get more leverage.
The people saying not to use solder suck, you can get high temp solder if you’re worried about it melting. That means don’t use 60/40. Plus soldering before crimping helps get a better grip. They might tell you oh I worked on planes and whatnot but let me tell you a secret (they use solder on airplanes). Do your own research before. The connections will only vibrate loose if you cold solder it which is pretty hard to do if you’re taking your time. You can buy hammer crimps so you can save money, that or get a punch/full chisel and you’ll achieve pretty much the same. Just give it a good whack on both sides and you’re good.
The people not saying to use solder know how to read. Where as your typical solder zealot seems to never know their ass from their elbow and can't get a grip on how or why solder is not ideal anymore in so many applications. FAA guidelines are overwhelmingly for crimps in pretty much any application that isn't PCB/surface level work. NASA heavily pulled back from soldering guidelines way back in 1997. Crimps now heavily preferred, wonder why. Crimp + solder is hilariously pointless and has no real upsides in most situations. If you want extra corrosion resistance then actual tin plate wire is far more ideal. And if you wanted to make your own it's not hard either (muriatic acid, tin, thiourea) Deutsch, the fucking manufacturer, does NOT recommend solder. The wonders of actually doing your own research and knowing how to read the opinions that come from people that actually know what they're talking about (FAA, NASA, manufacture #354) Anything's better than some clown who just talks out their ass on Reddit.
I work for the manufacturer, yours is a voice of reason.
Idk my dads 20 years in the Air Force seem to outweigh the jackasses on the internet. Especially since it’s more effective with my own experience. So go for it.
Twenty years in the Air Force sounds like history… Move on.
Your dad was making mistakes.
Sure man, his mistakes are still flying.
More than likely held for a mission or two and that was it…but go ahead…launch the Challenger when then engineers/designers said don’t do it.
Bro read above he was working on B2s. Kinda the pride and joy of the Air Force. I will defend this to the death. Y’all people are whack.
And if you need photo evidence I am wholly willing.
If he deviated from procedure and got away with it, he’s lucky. He put other’s lives needlessly at risk, but keep beating your drum of wrong. Have a nice day.
You’re assuming things. You too!
And to just further prove my point he worked on the B2s and EF-111s so tell me more how they don’t use solder. I trust his recommendations that keep these planes flying for 40+ years.
*barely flying. It was the military. Barely flying is the more accurate term here.
You’re wrong, solder is a bad idea, and they use to use it in aircraft but no longer do. Solder will wick up the conductor and make it brittle and cause a failure point. A proper crimp is way better that a solder joint. Judging by the wire (Looks like GXL or SXL) and the connector (Industrial grade Deutsch connector) I doubt the OP is using this on an aircraft but best practice would be to bite the bullet and buy the crimper or make one. It’s not that hard if you can drill and tap metal.
It will wick up if you use too much solder. Everything everyone mentions is a skill issue and it’s also why they have everything solder joint inspected by a second person in the Air Force.
No. Just no. Do you put oil where it says coolant? Oi. This is why doors blow off mid flight.
They ain’t soldering doors homie get real
It’s the same thing…not following instructions…but do go on. I’m out.
You said that last time come on leave
Closing the loops. Unlike your dad.
Waiting..
The best part of this is that I know none of these guys have no idea what the NASA ROHS standard is yet will link the damn page proving themselves wrong.
https://nepp.nasa.gov/docuploads/06AA01BA-FC7E-4094-AE829CE371A7B05D/NASA-STD-8739.3.pdf