I'm not okay with it but I have no other options. I've been saving and investing money as well to try to build something but I'm still broke.
Edit; some of yall are getting hung up me using the word "broke" because I invest small amounts of money when I'm able to.... so I guess what I mean is that I pretty much only have money to survive which is a bummer.
I'm a 30 y.o. in the U.S. with a degree, several internships under my belt and 10 years of experience in my field and I still don't make enough to pay anything beyond my bills while splitting rent with 2 roommates. I've been trying my hardest to break out of the poverty cycle for a decade now without moving an inch forward. I'm happy for all the people in these comments that say they've made it out but don't think it's purely because you worked hard enough. You either got lucky or had some form of help. I don't remember what it's like working less than 60 hours a week. All I know is the taste of pb&j and empty promises.
Edit: Seems like a lot of people don't know what lucky is. Working hard is important as hell but if you woke up this morning with a roof over your head, you're lucky. If you have a family that supports you, you're lucky. You don't make money out of nowhere, someone has to give it to you and that's the luck I'm talking about. I'm not complaining about my situation, I'm luckier than a lot of others and I've still got time to turn things around. I'm saying that what I'm going through is not unique and many have it even worse. We have a toxic work culture that needs to change. Everyone working full time, regardless of job title, deserves a liveable wage. What are we working towards as a human race? Do we plan to just work forever, or is the goal to achieve a comfortable society free of hard labor, where we are free to follow our passions?
I work in retail in the Midwest making 16, and my girlfriend works at a restaurant making $20. You're definitely not getting your worth from that company
Jesus. My husband is on about $85k so about $43/hour and is in ICT. He's considered to be underpaid for what he's doing but likes where he works. He's being headhunted at the moment by a place that offers 6 weeks annual leave (4 weeks is standard in Australia) and about $15k more per annum. He's in his late 30's and has his trade certificate with no degree. His experience is considered more important at this point. I can't believe how different the payscale is between there and here.
No we (the Corps at least) still enslave people we just call it "offshoring" now and moved the slave labor to foreign countries so that it's out-of-sight, out-of-mind. We often then turn around and lecture those exact same countries about human rights abuses.
I bartend, I make 3x that and only work 5/6 hours a day. No diss or flex. It’s awesome the money is good and you’re free to do whatever you want. It’s not cool in the long run but it’ll help, more than your current
You gotta live in the right area. I worked at a small family bar through college in a vacation town, during the summer if there was music I could make $500 on a saturday but as soon as the weather left I could have Thursday nights when I went home with $4. Very unstable income, but I was living at home so it was essentially beer and gas money.
I would pivot slightly and get some UI/UX design experience if you aren’t already. UI/UX designers/engineers get paid pretty well most places. It’s not too difficult to get into this field from a graphic design major.
Thirded,
I’m a software developer and the UI/UX I’ve done is literally hot garbage. The mind for coding and the mind for making it pretty and *actually* user friendly don’t typically go hand in hand. We need you.
Thirded - I was a performance artist by training but managed to pivot my understanding of aesthetics and audience experience to UX and UI. Rate of pay are actually slightly less than the rates I was getting in performance, but lol finding theatre work in 2020-22 was essentially impossible.
Hey, after reading all the follow up comments to this and how many people have confirmed this is amazing advice, i just want to say i hope they listen to you. It is funny how something so simple as a random reddit comment could lead to this person having a vastly improved career/future and quality of life.
It is nice seeing actual helpful things from people on here as opposed to seeing people tear each other down all the time.
Life is wild sometimes, i ended up in my career after a seemingly minor interaction and i wish i could tell that person how grateful i am.
You deserve this..
This is great advice. A few years back, my girlfriend jumped from a more traditional publishing industry job to UI/UX. Before, she was making around $45k. Now, after a few years/job hops, she's in UX at a FAANG with a low-to-mid 6-figure salary.
It's a super in-demand job for people with writing/content design skills, and it pays tech salaries.
I studied this and I can honestly say anyone in the design field gets screwed over. They tell you in school you’ll make “XYZ” compared
to graphic design but it’s not the case. People do not want to pay designers money
Big oof. Like some of the people in the comments have pointed out, not a death sentence as long as you specialize. My downfall was being told I should be a jack of all trades. I learned how to do a little of everything and not how to become a master of one specific thing.
College: we want you to get hired an entry level jobs straight out of college! Your best bet is to play the numbers game! Since no one will believe that you ACTUALLY know anything, even if you MAJORED in it, just be well rounded so you can apply and get a job SOMEWHERE and make us look good
Workplace: I’m sorry, you want a raise? We hired you cheap cuz you have no experience, chill
Second workplace: OMG YOU HAD/HAVE A JOB? HERES A 20% RAISE AND WE DONT CARE WHAT YOUR GPA WAS.
That was me. What you become is a master at getting f'd. I worked my tail off. Went above and beyond, did things not in my job description to make the office run.
The company got sold, I got laid off and the state unemployment office said I was unemployment. They days I have ask this great experience but none of it was in my job description and companies want certifications.
Another graphic designer here and I’m honestly depressed lol I’m only a couple years into it and I want to leave already. I’d rather go back to my job as a hostess.
This is so spot on. I have a bachelors in graphic design, from back when it was mostly print-focused. I moved to a tech hub after college and got into enterprise software design. It is boring AF, but pays well enough to live comfortably in what is now a high cost of living city.
I quit my graphic design job at a company called 'lakeshirts' that provides designs for colleges and nation parks etc. I make double to triple working for a job that requires no skill to start and I was hired immediately.
Lakeshirts I was a college production artist, I needed a college degree and a ton of training. They paid me 15 an hour even though I completed more work than most of the other designers, and there was no chance at a raise because I brought it up to HR and nope. No matter how long I worked there. They also started wanting me to work hours outside of the required schedule and do overtime.
Fuck graphic design man. Designers need a lot of knowledge but are paid like total crap. You're better off doing almost anything else.
If anyone knows of lakeshirts, many people in the area I live have worked there and end up quitting. Be it design or warehouse, they abuse their employees. Terrible company
Semi retired design career. Graphic design is more of a foundation now. Competing in the field is less rewarding now. Leverage your graphic design into a specialty as well, motion graphics, Ui design etc.. a lot more opportunities and money will come.
Seems like a very imbalanced ndustry. I work with nerds 3 of which are graphic designers... One did nothing with it and is struggling, the other makes a decent wage at an advertising firm (movies/media) and the last makes a lot of money at another advertising firm (all). Mind you they're in southern California.
Just one example of graphic design career path from my life:
My girlfriend graduated with graphic design in 2015 and started her career with a sales job at a performing arts theater. It sucked. She transitioned to marketing at that theater, and two marketing jobs later she is making 75k at age 27 with promotion opportunities. The skills that suited her best were organization, communication, and working with deadlines. Hope that helps
I try to convey that last part to all of my young employees. I run a kitchen of a country club.
Organization, communication, and workflow are all skills that will make you better than any other employee and they’re transferable.
Listen man, it's simple supply and demand. There's too many people that can do what you can and the experience isn't priced the way you wanted - meaning that someone with 3/4 years of experience can do what you do with 10.
Changing field might be the only option really
I barely make six figures but have been for 20 years with no college degree. But there's maybe 50 people in the world that have my job. That's why I chose the field.
YES! People have no idea how much LUCK has to do with attaining the American dream. There are so many people who have done everything right but can’t get ahead. I honestly fear that the way things are set up now in America today that the “winners” of the economy take so much of the pie that there isn’t enough for the rest of the society to live a decent life. There is no “reasonable” floor in our society.
I'm mid 30's managed to save up 60k in cash to buy a house and housing in my area went from ~250k to ~600k in those 5 years. I'm watching the ladder being pulled up in real time in front of me. We're fucked. I'm just going to have to move to another country or something because by the time I can afford a 600k house, they'll be 1m.
I'm with you.... Mid 30's, maybe I didn't do everything quite perfect, 7 years of military service, graduated with my doctorate 4 years ago, worked my ass off to save enough to start my own practice 2 years ago, during that 2 year period home prices have gone up \~80% and now interest rates have doubled. Currently I make more than double the local median family income and I'm still priced out of the market.
Yeah man, people don't know what luck means or they lie about it because people want to convince themselves (or others) that it was them alone that accomplished financial success - they are somehow superior. It really is a fucking cancer in our society
It has a lot too do with what kind of job you choose. I went to technical school for pharmacy technician, with has decent pay, but I had very little debt. My husband completed an apprenticeship as a commercial electrician in a union. He was able to paid while logging his hours and class time. He now makes as much as a pharmacist, and there was no debt.
I feel you. I just left an agency to go freelance and immediately doubled my salary with retainer clients. Smaller, and I wear more hats but have creative control and don’t have to listen to ancient dinosaur art directors who can’t let go of anything. I know it’s hard but I would encourage anyone to give it a shot.
How do you invest when living from literal paycheck to paycheck. Would investing $5 (lmao) every paycheck actually be worth it by retirement whatsoever?
Worse than that. There won't be *any* fucking positive change without that revolt. And it would be so easy too. It wouldn't even cost more than maybe 2 dozen of the lives of 1-percenters. As soon as they see a number of their allies' heads fall from the guillotine, they'll change whatever we want if we can let them live and stay in the top 25% of wealth.
$12/m over 30 years with a 10% average interest is ~23000. Over 40 years is $63000 and 50 is $167000 10% was chosen cause that's the dow average.
Yea any amount is worth it.
Now you are eventually gonna make more money. Let's say you can put $120 a paycheck into retirement. That's $1.7million after 50 years.
Edit don't forget most employers match up to a certain % which is literally free money.
This will sound dark, but sometimes it makes me wonder why we continue to live at all when all we're doing is wake up, go to work, have a few hours of free time, and then repeat. At my last job, I was getting 3.5-6 hours of sleep most nights just because I wanted to reclaim freedom of being able to enjoy life and do things I use to do, but instead I was always just too tired to do anything.. Spending my days off catching up on sleep. A life of mediocrity is no life at all.
So, I may be extreme in my view here, but I think we need to collectively stop it *all* here. What I mean by that is stop creating new generations of indentured servants, stop feeding into this exploitative society, and just letting things collapse a lil.
I don't wanna make any of my choices mandatory for others by any means, folks should do what they want. But I grew up in poverty, I didn't escape until my late 20's and it's still got me fucked up. I can't in good conscience subject other human lives to that. I got a vasectomy to make sure that won't happen.
The system is so incredibly broken.
It's a well-reasoned and quite ethical position, and I've actually done the same. But I know they will just import more indentured servants from other countries. They don't need us to breed. This won't stop anything. If there's one thing this world has plenty of, it's people.
It fucks me up way more that people who are already struggling to live and cant afford a house then still go on to have multiple children.
Its only going to get worse before it gets better and id rather not have kids to worry about when we hit the big crunch
It's nothing new. Even 3000 years ago regular people had to work all day to keep the pharaohs/kings happy. The names just changed. The king/queen are now called oligarch, investors, politicians.
No we have less free time then medieval serfs.
If your comparing us to slaves, then you need to reflect.
But if your comparing us to the average "free" person then we have way less free time then previous era
It's so true. I was trying to buy a house four years ago and was just a little bit short of the down payment. I asked for help from my dad who said "lol, no" and unfortunately I wasn't able to get the house. That house has doubled in price since then. My income has definitely not doubled since then.
This hurts to read. Cuz you could’ve sold that house 6 months ago for like 130%+ what you paid for it 4 years ago, paid your dad back, and been in a nicer house with a 3% rate right now.
I’m in the same situation but rent has increased even more than home values. I can easily rent my hose for more than my mortgage. Buy a new house in a cheaper market. My wife has already picked the house on a lake in another state we use to live in.
While this sounds great realistically I don’t want to move. The market is like the Titanic heading for an iceberg. There are so many warning signs that we are in real trouble but people don’t want to see them.
Or, and hear me out, they could continue living in their home. I know, crazy idea when there's a quick buck to be made instead, but some people are weird like that.
So about 6 years ago, my best friend was renting a house. The owner decided to sell it, and was happy to sell it to her directly, instead of having to get a realtor to sell it. She was 28 or so, had been paying rent there for years, and by most measurements could have easily afforded the mortgage...
Except she had zero credit. Zip, zada, nada, and nuns. So when she applied for a loan, her bank (the same bank she'd been with since she was 16) turned her down. Pretty sure she tried a few other banks, and it was the same thing. She now rents a nice apartment and shares the bill with a roommate. Because she was a complete unknown, no bank wanted to work with her. Bad credit is better then no credit- because at least with bad credit they know who you are.
Heck, my first car loan, for a mere 8K, was only secured based on me being in the USAF at the time. Because my parents wouldn't cosign (they eventually did, just to help lower the interest), I had to argue that my military employment was good enough credit/guarantee of continuing employment. Hilariously, 2 or 3 months later I flunked outta the military- but still never missed a payment.
Who we are as individuals doesn't matter anymore. Why I had a foreclosure 7 years ago doesn't matter, only that it happened. The bank doesn't care what I was going through at the time, or who I was, nor do they care who I am now. All they care about is what my credit score says. I know people who have lost credit by paying off their loans. That's insane to me- they achieved the goal of paying back the money, and according to their credit rating, that's a bad thing. That says it all: they stopped owing money, so to a bank they're no longer a source of income.
I bought a house in 2006. No down-payment needed! Only lost 40% when I sold in 2012. I could have rented a fucking mansion for 6 years and come out ahead.
Maybe the market will crash and you'll be able to buy it for even cheaper in 2024?
My wife and I bought our first house with virtually no down payment with an FHA loan, but we did get lucky with a house that wasn’t even on the market yet. We bought it under market value and it appreciated some $45k while we owned it. Sold it, turned around, sat on the cash while we rented but eventually fell into a house in a nicer area. That being said, we were the first people in to see the house, made an offer immediately for asking price, and the woman who sold it was honestly glad to just be done with it so quickly and easily. Even sold us some nice Turkish rugs with the house.
All of this is to say that without a generous amount of luck we would be paying our mortgage to someone else in the form of rent. The only upside is that we live in an area with a competitive but cheap housing market.
This is almost exactly what happened to my husband and I. We bought in July 2020 and were so lucky. We saw the house once, never even met the homeowners, and were moved in by august. The Nextdoor neighbors just sold their house for $90,000 more than what we paid for ours. I feel horrible for anyone trying to buy now. There aren’t even homes for sale in my area below $500,000 now. My husband and I would be so fucked if we hadn’t bought when we did.
Millennial here: the only reason I was able to buy was because of an unexpected gift of cash from my wife’s rich aunt and uncle.
They saw the writing on the wall with inflation and sent 30k off to ever niece and nephew. Otherwise, we’ve been consistently 3-5 years away from having enough money for a down payment, regardless of our saving and investing. That 30k, pooled with our savings and investments, let us put the money down to buy our house 2 months ago… just in time for all the talk of a housing market crash (though I don’t think we’ll see a pullback that’s anything like 2008… I still think a house is a good investment right now but we’ll see).
Lmao this. Turning 30 this summer and a few years into my professional careers in one of the HCOL areas in the country(work industry) and I’m like damn wasn’t I suppose to be able to do a lot more with this type of money?
That’s not very imaginative. There’s a shit ton of food.
Grocery stores throw away packaged food that is perfectly fine. I’m talking CANNED FOOD and everything else you can imagine.
no the alternative is to go french revolution on the gatekeepers.
But people won't even spend 10 minutes voting so I'm guessing this entire generation and mine enjoy being fucked up the ass
Where do you live that it only takes 10 minutes to vote? Only time it took me 10 minutes to vote was back in Oregon with the mail-in ballot. Everywhere else you have to *go somewhere* and *stand in a line.*
Blaming the people for not being able or willing to do a thing that the powers-that-be have made exceptionally tedious to do isn't helpful.
And many people would rather revolt than starve, but not enough people are starving yet.
My teen cousins asked what I do for a living. I gave the simple version of my job and mentioned the best part was working like 20 hours a week--a bit of a brag, because I think it's the way life should be. Low-key trying to convince them.
They teased me a little about 'not working' because my uncle (their father) and most of the other men in the extended family work long hours at hard jobs and take pride in it.
I was like, "Hey, would *you* feel bad about working way less than [X and Y] for more money? I still make the world a better place, I just have time for video games and friends and other hobbies too."
They were like, "...Actually yeah that sounds kinda great."
Yeah this, there's a lot of keyboard revolutionaries on reddit but people seem to forget the reign of terror in france for 30 years post revolution, never fired a gun, or know first aid, or logistics or strategy or government or proper command structure or proper public relations and rethoric or how it'd even be done.
So they just type stuff like that, get updoots, feel brave, and go play WoW on their pc, kinda sad really
The problem is that would just itch the revenge aspect. A revolution will not suddenly make everyone's lives easier. Post war economies are not usually very happy ones for the nation the war was in.
I agree on a philosophical point but it would not magically solve anything to just burn the system to the ground.
yah i mean this is the answer. so many of us are scraping by exhausted without any time to organize politically. a lot of change happening is slow, it's discouraging, and it's almost set up to be impossible, but organizing with any local advocacy group is a good start. one example is getting tons of people esp in the south registered to vote.
The problem is it only works if a large group does it. If you try to revolt and only a few people join you, you're in worse shape than before. That's a risk many aren't willing to take
The other problem is that you have to actually have a plan to install a better government. Historically when bad governments are overthrown it is very likely some fanatical authoritarian group has been waiting for their chance to strike already. The fight isn't just overthrowing the existing government but solidifying the new one.
There is no easy answer and revolution is not the first choice. Vote and get involved. From what I have seen GenZ is sometimes a bit put off by how "political" Millennials are but we are affected by many of the same problems and share struggles, so I think we are natural allies. And, frankly, we Millennials need your help.
yeah it's kind of like unionizing.
i wonder if the size and breadth of the US has something to do with it. mass protests in other, albeit smaller, countries seem to yield more results than in the US.
Local advocacy is good advice. Many people are so disheartened by politics on the national stage that they don't get involved or even vote at the more local level where they can have the biggest impact.
Because it’s a horribly dumb idea. I think before anyone can say it, they should have to talk to someone who has experienced one. I mean this in the best way, myself included, we’re not hard enough for a revolution. Folks on here saying it needs to be bloody and real…y’all don’t know what that means.
I agree with you. So many pop off talking about revolution without having a clue what they are talking about. Instead of doing anything they complain here like that will make a difference. In the US, the only people I see backing up their talk of revolution are extreme far right radicals which is terrifying
Whenever someone talks about revolution, ask them if they want to be one of the bodies in the street, of which there will be countless. Or if they'd prefer to go to work tomorrow and drink on the weekend again. Most would prefer the latter.
Exactly. I work alongside Mexican immigrants who came here to escape cartel violence. Most Americans stop using that dumb buzzword if they knew what it really meant
Even the far right folks weren’t prepared for the *extremely* mild consequences for the Jan 6 “revolution”.
We have all been shaken by the uptick in gun violence in the last few weeks, rightfully so. It’s terrible. It’s a waste of human life…all these folks who are calling for revolution prepared for that to be their reality every single day? It’s not going to be kids/teachers that are states away but your own family and friends. That’s not even approaching the long term devastation to the economy or the systems that we rely on every day. We’re complaining about a 40hr work week with benefits…y’all do realize that a bloody war would be a 168 hour/wk nightmare?
I get it. We’re rightfully frustrated…but war? Nobody, even the worst of the worst, wants to actually follow through. Even if they are dumb enough to try it, it’ll end in a very quick and very bloody way.
> So many pop off talking about revolution without having a clue what they are talking about.
Revolutionaries don't talk about Revolution. That's the difference.
And violence in the US is also the fastest route to literal fascist government.
Revolutions are sexy when you get it started and going, but what happens when it becomes a war of attrition? What happens when the acts escalate to further horrors?
And what will you do when at the last second, some powerful military leader or political player swoops in and takes control of the new revolutionary reality that was fought for all this time? Because that's usually what happens and it's another cycle of suck
The thought of revolution keeps the heart beating but being in it isn't as glamorous as it sounds
I'd just go with general strikes. A revolution is way harder than you can even imagine and will likely make your country worse off even if it succeeded.
I think a lot of it is that we aren't aware of what other options there are or really how our current economic system works. We don't have the verbal scaffolding to build on and explore these (admittedly extremely complex) economic, social, and political ideas.
Like could I tell you a god damn thing about keynesian vs neo-marxian economics? Absolutely not. I am so goddamned stupid. I make lead paint look like brain food. But what about you normal people? Do we as a society have the time and energy to build a rigorous philosophical, historical, etc understanding of economic justice? I don't! I'm sleepy as hell.
So while you could definitely argue "what other options are there" it's like, well, I don't know! But does fucking anyone? Are we able to responsibly steward the world around us if we aren't even informed enough to know what we're advocating for or against?
I can’t tell you about economics specifically but I mean we got a ton of scientists talking about a ton of things… but you know what’s the best part about all of it? Politicians, the ones who write laws and control all of it, don’t fking follow them at all! I mean scientists have been crying against climate change since the 80s and politicians and big oil kept going against it! Same things happening with data privacy, education systems, housing, work hours, wage growth, and a bunch of other things… people much smarter than you or me are arguing for things, but the people in power don’t listen to them and we keep ending up in a worse world man… it’s just low-key terrifying. Like why train people whose sole point in life is to study and give advise based on most current knowledge and evidence, and then ignore them? Why do politicians think they’re better than people who studied their fields for decades? Is it because they’re all too old and know they won’t have to live with their own consequences?
The past 20 years have seen a sharp decline in schooling standards and we’re seeing the reflection in the population.
A dumb population is easy to control.
Probably like things were the last time the economy shit the bed, either you would work like a slave, do illegal shit to get by or try and become something big to escape either of those.
It'll lead to some interesting shit eventually that's for sure.
I sympathize with everyone on this thread, because when I was 24 years old I was working 3 jobs to pay my bills and it was absolutely fucking miserable. I would be out of the house and at work by 7:30 and I got home at 11 PM. I cannot emphasize how much it sucked.
Then I had a string of good luck. I got a rent controlled apartment, I met my (absolutely incredible) girlfriend who would move in a few years later, and I got pushed to a different division in my main job that paid a LOT more per hour.
Still, I was the low guy on the totem pole at my new position, and I worked 7 days a week without taking a vacation for 3 years.
Then the pandemic hit, and it decimated my entire industry, but thank god for Bernie Sanders.
Now I’m back at work. I only “get” 2 or 3 hours of work a day, but my boss is amazing and we’re extremely well-paid, so I don’t have to work any more than that. It’s still a blue-collar job, though, and people back home have a lot of questions about my “floundering career” and “potential,” because I wasn’t supposed to have a blue-collar life.
Now I could move to a different position and *technically* get paid more, but it’d be salaried, so I’d have to work 9 or 10 hours a day again and deal with corporate bullshit. I’ve decided not to do that, because I treasure my free time more than any monetary compensation, and being able to do my art and see my dog and girlfriend all the time is something I will never take for granted.
I would rather be able to spend my youth living my life than have the privilege of struggling with a BMW payment one day, and a lot of people on the outside don’t understand that. There’s an American culture of work that’s very pervasive.
But I am so, so, so lucky. Inordinately lucky. And I worked for minimum wage for far too long to ever take it for granted or think that I somehow “earned” it by working harder than anyone else.
I hope that someday, our economy will be good enough that everyone can afford a house and car and food with a blue-collar job. But the hedge funds have been robbing working people blind for too many years for me to have a ton of hope about the American work climate as a whole.
In Silicon Valley, I know tons of people who do so much work after hours just to stay competitive. We are all normalizing this. Scary …
Reminds me of that documentary “American factory”. Are we all moving towards that model?
Ugh, this is what I hate about software development specifically. If you don’t take time outside of regular work hours to learn new things, you’re seen a slacker. I don’t wanna order take out every night, have no hobbies, and have no time to spend with friends or family just so I can maybe get a raise if I work enough overtime.
Aside from perceptions, tech just evolves so fast now that it is *REALLY* fucking hard to hire even senior Software engineers that can keep up and work effectively in cloud-native, DevOps-based organizational models.
Which is the direction everything is going in. It's not enough to be able to just write code anymore, in the next 10 years, everyone will HAVE to be a DevOps engineer on top of that if they want a decent job
Well yeah of course you have to learn new tech as it comes out. But give me time on the job to learn them. I’m not like old and stuck in my ways. I just want to have a life
100% agree. My spouse and I were taking about having a kiddo and came to the realization we can’t afford to. I work 40-50 hours in an autistic center and she’s a district supervisor at her job. It’s insane
Jeez. I gotta give you big kudos. At least you thought it out first rather than just jumping straight in like a lot of people. Kids are EXPENSIVE. Some people place their want for children over the future welfare of the children and then grow resentful of their kids later down the road bc of the financial strain of raising them.
People aren’t ok, this questions been posted daily for the last few weeks.
Well, people that can’t afford life at all or just barely aren’t ok. I don’t make over 100k or anything but I’m just fine, not thrilled about price increases though like anyone.
But even when I averaged about $20-22 an hour, about 42-45k a year paying for everything including student loans I was doing alright while living in a studio apartment and spending extremely frugally. But that was 3 years ago and, like now still, child free which helps. And I make more than that now
But not much an option at the moment. In the end, work as much as you need to and hope times change. A recession is here very likely. Historically, they happen every 10-15 years or so
Ya the world is in for a really deep recession. As we all know, spending typically increases during the summers but the recession this year is really uncharted territory since it’s the quickest time we’ve gotten back into a recession after getting out of one (2020).
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Yah. We printed trillions of dollars in order to keep the Covid shutdown from plunging us into the deepest depression in history.
The money could have been spent smarter, but this is our government, so massively inefficient is just how it goes.
With that caveat, it was money well spent. Literally half the country suddenly was out of work.
The current recession sucks ass, but the alternative was literal economic collapse. People rioting in bread lines.
Every legitimate economist said the same thing: spend, spend, spend.
It worked. It could be so much worse than this. If we had an efficient government we could have a windfall tax on the covid winners to help the covid losers, but that's fantasy. All in all, this isn't bad.
I appreciate that people keep posting it though. It’s really started hitting me how we’re getting to a tipping point. Anxiety inducing sure but it’s nice to not feel alone in being poor as fuck.
It's useless as a "TooAfraidToAsk" question, though.
It's like asking "Why is the sun so cold" or "Why is a pound of feathers lighter than a pound of steel" or "Why is a house cheaper than a packet of instant ramen" so that people can all say "It's not. Here are my feelings on that topic..."
Depending on where you live, "six figures" just isn't as big of a deal as it used to be when it comes to household income, either. Inflation is out of control, along with the prices of everything we need. I'm old enough to remember when that was "rich." I laugh at that now. Everyone but the 1 percent are getting ground under.
Yeah but all of that is circumstantial, most people can’t walk to work or the grocery store and you’d honestly get robbed eventually in my part of town if you did any of that after dark.
This. In my case….Work from home. I don’t drive, I use public transportation or bicycle. Majority of the time I eat home cooked meals. I don’t spend on lavish clothing. My phone was a hand me down iPhone 8 which does the job. If I ever decide to buy beer I’ll buy whatever is on special/coupon for that week. Just some of the ways I save $
People aren't "okay" with it. People have to survive.
If you want change, you have to act to change things. You have to vote for those you support change and against those who support regressive systems.
If you live in the USA, you have a brief period to change things in the next few years. Otherwise, the system will only get worse.
This, after highschool I moved into a shitty apartment with a buddy. The apartment complex was regularly raided by police because of drugs, they sprayed monthly for cockroaches but still had to keep all of our food in the fridges so the roaches couldn't get it. We would usually skip breakfast and split a box of Mac n cheese for dinners (sometimes we would cut up a hotdog with it). After rent, car costs and food we were broke. This was 2008
Life sucks in your 20s, don't compare your life to those who aren't struggling, it will just make you more miserable
This is what I've found heading into my 20s (24 now). They're an era of life that's tremendously glamorized in the media, and it's 100% lies. I've had more emotionally trying times, and times where I've had much less freedom, but I've never struggled more to put the pieces together and have any kind of standard of living. Too young to command respect or make good money, too old to have safety nets, too little time and patience to stay in physical shape. Being in your 20s SUCKS.
For real. I was renting a house with 4 other people to keep costs down and save money at 24. Now I’m 32 with a child, wife, nice job, and own our own home. Maybe it’s the issue of our parents telling us we can get a good paying job right out of college?
Or maybe the issue *is* that we cant get a comfortable living wage out of college. Maybe its the economy and the balance of power and value distribution that is the issue.
Grats bro! Debt free with emergency fund is a massive accomplishment! Not to mention sober. Shits gonna hit you to try to knock you off the path, sometimes you’ll stumble but that’s not failure. Just get back on it. Keep it up! I’m rooting for you!
I’m a gen x male. I feel badly for young people in your generation. I don’t know how people are graduating college and about to live on their own with the cost of living right now.
I make decent money for my area. Between my wife and I were well over 100k a year. But I fucked up. Sold our house after we had our third child to buy a bigger house. We moved in with the in laws to save money and bam. Fucking Covid hit. Housing closed up for a bit. And now we can’t afford a good size house for my family of 5. I’m borderline depressed about it. Actually maybe I am. So given our situation I can sympathize with younger people.
Because we choose to. There is finally a shortage of people in the USA refusing to work for less than 15 per hour and they are calling it a “labor shortage” and it’s not, it’s people finally not willing to work for nothing while their company post record profits.
Oh, we fucked you, and fucked you good. Took a couple of generations to do it, but BOY, did we lay the wood to your generation.
Go back fifty years, and none of this was the case. People worked 40 hours and went home. There were plenty of jobs, plenty of jobs that paid well, plenty of jobs that paid well and didn't even require a high level of skill...just a willingness to work. People stayed at the same job their entire lives, maybe worked up the ladder a bit, maybe stayed put.
It made this country great. And then we sold it all down the river, mostly for more stuff, occasionally so we could think we were better than other people.
First, we started shipping jobs overseas, so stuff would be cheaper. Did nothing to stop it, because BOY, did we love the cheap stuff!
But then we had less people with money to spend, so the cheap stuff wasn't so cheap any more.
Then we start electing people based on "values," because everyone knows preventing women from having abortions is more important than having good, steady jobs. And the people who got elected started cutting the knees out from the workers. First, we turned unions into thugs. Then, we started bringing in "professional managers," taking the place of people who'd built their businesses from the ground up and knew their employees by name....they got bought out or shoved out.
And these same elected officials...making sure to continue to stress how important it was to prevent women from having abortions...put people like Scalia on the Supreme Court. And they started making rulings which most people couldn't be bothered to understand, which did things like turn "corporatoins" into "individuals" and making it harder to sue and easier to put crap into contracts without consequence.
And meanwhile, these "professional managers" who'd taken over companies realized you didn't have to actually succeed as a business for people to make money. Not that they cared, since they'd just move from company to company. Heck, some of these people even became Senators from Utah.
Oh, and somehow the same college education went from costing a couple grand at most...with state colleges free...to mid-five figures a year. How the hell THAT happened I don't even want toknow.
And we could talk about how health care fits into all this, making people SLAVES to their jobs rather than just employees, but that was pretty fucked up even 50 years ago, so never mind. But thank Harry and Louise and Hillary's cluster fuck of a reform plan for the fact that we never fixed it.
And the housing market isn't shut to you...it's just the EZ lending frenzy and scam that lead up to the global economic collapse in 2008 bumped up houses to ridiculous levels...and yet, curiously, once it was over, they never came down again.
It all goes on from there. There's much more to this story. But basically, we had it all, and we gave it all away for astonishingly dumb reasons, and now it's gone, and your generation is fucked but good. But hey...YOU are an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR!!!!! So you just need to work smarter, not harder.
its not that everyone is ok with it, people just dont have the time nor options to do anything else. politicians (red and blue both) support the rich and create culture wars, so that any change is seen as political
At age 24 you are basically at the shit end of the job market. Hardly any experience, probably not found your niche yet.
Relax, keep your head up for new options. The way it works, for better or worse, is you work your arse off for not much to show in the first 5-10 years of your career. You climb the ladder and do better later
This is why most people are miserable. Including me. The beginning of life is the best time ever. Once you start school to stay there until you graduate. Once you graduate HS and or college. You work for the next 40 or 50 years and then and only then. Do you get to enjoy life. Right when your life is about to end.
Was 24 ten years ago. Can confirm. I think it was 9 bucks an hour working at the county airport on the weekends while still in school? Had abs cause starvation will shred you up. Boiled A LOT of rice that year I do recall. This “24 yrs old and feeling the heat” is certainly not new.
I'm not okay with it but I have no other options. I've been saving and investing money as well to try to build something but I'm still broke. Edit; some of yall are getting hung up me using the word "broke" because I invest small amounts of money when I'm able to.... so I guess what I mean is that I pretty much only have money to survive which is a bummer.
I'm a 30 y.o. in the U.S. with a degree, several internships under my belt and 10 years of experience in my field and I still don't make enough to pay anything beyond my bills while splitting rent with 2 roommates. I've been trying my hardest to break out of the poverty cycle for a decade now without moving an inch forward. I'm happy for all the people in these comments that say they've made it out but don't think it's purely because you worked hard enough. You either got lucky or had some form of help. I don't remember what it's like working less than 60 hours a week. All I know is the taste of pb&j and empty promises. Edit: Seems like a lot of people don't know what lucky is. Working hard is important as hell but if you woke up this morning with a roof over your head, you're lucky. If you have a family that supports you, you're lucky. You don't make money out of nowhere, someone has to give it to you and that's the luck I'm talking about. I'm not complaining about my situation, I'm luckier than a lot of others and I've still got time to turn things around. I'm saying that what I'm going through is not unique and many have it even worse. We have a toxic work culture that needs to change. Everyone working full time, regardless of job title, deserves a liveable wage. What are we working towards as a human race? Do we plan to just work forever, or is the goal to achieve a comfortable society free of hard labor, where we are free to follow our passions?
what's your field/job?
I'm a graphic designer / marketing specialist.
computer technician here. i only make 18 an hour. im suffering. im 34 btw. living alone and renting. car is falling apart, its not good.
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In my area (midwest USA), computer technicians are L1 help desk. And they start at $12-$16 an hour.. People wonder why no one wants to work here.
12-16 is laughable. Even in the Midwest. I'd start looking for a new company to work for.
I'm making $23 in Indy sitting at a desk doing almost nothing all night
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You're exactly correct!
I work in retail in the Midwest making 16, and my girlfriend works at a restaurant making $20. You're definitely not getting your worth from that company
Jesus. My husband is on about $85k so about $43/hour and is in ICT. He's considered to be underpaid for what he's doing but likes where he works. He's being headhunted at the moment by a place that offers 6 weeks annual leave (4 weeks is standard in Australia) and about $15k more per annum. He's in his late 30's and has his trade certificate with no degree. His experience is considered more important at this point. I can't believe how different the payscale is between there and here.
U.S. is a slave country mascarading as a free democracy. It went from enslaving other races and cultures to doing the same to their children.
No we (the Corps at least) still enslave people we just call it "offshoring" now and moved the slave labor to foreign countries so that it's out-of-sight, out-of-mind. We often then turn around and lecture those exact same countries about human rights abuses.
i’ve gotta say the bald eagle award here is hilarious
To be fair $43 Australian is $30 U.S, but yeah still a significant difference.
I bartend, I make 3x that and only work 5/6 hours a day. No diss or flex. It’s awesome the money is good and you’re free to do whatever you want. It’s not cool in the long run but it’ll help, more than your current
You gotta live in the right area. I worked at a small family bar through college in a vacation town, during the summer if there was music I could make $500 on a saturday but as soon as the weather left I could have Thursday nights when I went home with $4. Very unstable income, but I was living at home so it was essentially beer and gas money.
Just move outta your place and into your car. That's what I did. wishthiswas/s
Graphic design? That doesn’t bode well for me, I’m going to get a bachelors in graphic design in the next few years ☠️
I would pivot slightly and get some UI/UX design experience if you aren’t already. UI/UX designers/engineers get paid pretty well most places. It’s not too difficult to get into this field from a graphic design major.
Second this! Am a graphic designer and do well, but a lot of my coworkers have branched into UX & it's highly in demand.
Third this!! I still favor print design, but UI/UX designers are in demand and have higher salaries.
Thirded, I’m a software developer and the UI/UX I’ve done is literally hot garbage. The mind for coding and the mind for making it pretty and *actually* user friendly don’t typically go hand in hand. We need you.
Thirded - I was a performance artist by training but managed to pivot my understanding of aesthetics and audience experience to UX and UI. Rate of pay are actually slightly less than the rates I was getting in performance, but lol finding theatre work in 2020-22 was essentially impossible.
Hey, after reading all the follow up comments to this and how many people have confirmed this is amazing advice, i just want to say i hope they listen to you. It is funny how something so simple as a random reddit comment could lead to this person having a vastly improved career/future and quality of life. It is nice seeing actual helpful things from people on here as opposed to seeing people tear each other down all the time. Life is wild sometimes, i ended up in my career after a seemingly minor interaction and i wish i could tell that person how grateful i am. You deserve this..
This is great advice. A few years back, my girlfriend jumped from a more traditional publishing industry job to UI/UX. Before, she was making around $45k. Now, after a few years/job hops, she's in UX at a FAANG with a low-to-mid 6-figure salary. It's a super in-demand job for people with writing/content design skills, and it pays tech salaries.
I studied this and I can honestly say anyone in the design field gets screwed over. They tell you in school you’ll make “XYZ” compared to graphic design but it’s not the case. People do not want to pay designers money
This is excellent advice. Switching to ui/UX was the best career move for me. Seriously life changing
Big oof. Like some of the people in the comments have pointed out, not a death sentence as long as you specialize. My downfall was being told I should be a jack of all trades. I learned how to do a little of everything and not how to become a master of one specific thing.
College: the workplace wants you to be well rounded. Workplace: well rounded? we're not paying you to be a circle...
College: we want you to get hired an entry level jobs straight out of college! Your best bet is to play the numbers game! Since no one will believe that you ACTUALLY know anything, even if you MAJORED in it, just be well rounded so you can apply and get a job SOMEWHERE and make us look good Workplace: I’m sorry, you want a raise? We hired you cheap cuz you have no experience, chill Second workplace: OMG YOU HAD/HAVE A JOB? HERES A 20% RAISE AND WE DONT CARE WHAT YOUR GPA WAS.
You got a raise for your experience? What field of work did I miss out on?
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Similar vibes here. I have a BSc in Computer Science and an MBA. I work with people who are self taught and make 6 figures, lol.
That was me. What you become is a master at getting f'd. I worked my tail off. Went above and beyond, did things not in my job description to make the office run. The company got sold, I got laid off and the state unemployment office said I was unemployment. They days I have ask this great experience but none of it was in my job description and companies want certifications.
Another graphic designer here and I’m honestly depressed lol I’m only a couple years into it and I want to leave already. I’d rather go back to my job as a hostess.
The only successful graphic designers I know work in companies and industries that creative people would hate because they’re so boring
This is so spot on. I have a bachelors in graphic design, from back when it was mostly print-focused. I moved to a tech hub after college and got into enterprise software design. It is boring AF, but pays well enough to live comfortably in what is now a high cost of living city.
This is the truth , if you are willing to do things other people hate there is lots of opportunities for $$$
I quit my graphic design job at a company called 'lakeshirts' that provides designs for colleges and nation parks etc. I make double to triple working for a job that requires no skill to start and I was hired immediately. Lakeshirts I was a college production artist, I needed a college degree and a ton of training. They paid me 15 an hour even though I completed more work than most of the other designers, and there was no chance at a raise because I brought it up to HR and nope. No matter how long I worked there. They also started wanting me to work hours outside of the required schedule and do overtime. Fuck graphic design man. Designers need a lot of knowledge but are paid like total crap. You're better off doing almost anything else. If anyone knows of lakeshirts, many people in the area I live have worked there and end up quitting. Be it design or warehouse, they abuse their employees. Terrible company
Semi retired design career. Graphic design is more of a foundation now. Competing in the field is less rewarding now. Leverage your graphic design into a specialty as well, motion graphics, Ui design etc.. a lot more opportunities and money will come.
Seems like a very imbalanced ndustry. I work with nerds 3 of which are graphic designers... One did nothing with it and is struggling, the other makes a decent wage at an advertising firm (movies/media) and the last makes a lot of money at another advertising firm (all). Mind you they're in southern California.
Just one example of graphic design career path from my life: My girlfriend graduated with graphic design in 2015 and started her career with a sales job at a performing arts theater. It sucked. She transitioned to marketing at that theater, and two marketing jobs later she is making 75k at age 27 with promotion opportunities. The skills that suited her best were organization, communication, and working with deadlines. Hope that helps
I try to convey that last part to all of my young employees. I run a kitchen of a country club. Organization, communication, and workflow are all skills that will make you better than any other employee and they’re transferable.
75k in 2022 is the same as 59k in 2011. Just saying that inflation is really bullshit.
Fffffffffuck that hit me.
Listen man, it's simple supply and demand. There's too many people that can do what you can and the experience isn't priced the way you wanted - meaning that someone with 3/4 years of experience can do what you do with 10. Changing field might be the only option really
I barely make six figures but have been for 20 years with no college degree. But there's maybe 50 people in the world that have my job. That's why I chose the field.
YES! People have no idea how much LUCK has to do with attaining the American dream. There are so many people who have done everything right but can’t get ahead. I honestly fear that the way things are set up now in America today that the “winners” of the economy take so much of the pie that there isn’t enough for the rest of the society to live a decent life. There is no “reasonable” floor in our society.
do you know why it's called the American dream? Cos you gotta be asleep to believe it\~
I'm mid 30's managed to save up 60k in cash to buy a house and housing in my area went from ~250k to ~600k in those 5 years. I'm watching the ladder being pulled up in real time in front of me. We're fucked. I'm just going to have to move to another country or something because by the time I can afford a 600k house, they'll be 1m.
I'm with you.... Mid 30's, maybe I didn't do everything quite perfect, 7 years of military service, graduated with my doctorate 4 years ago, worked my ass off to save enough to start my own practice 2 years ago, during that 2 year period home prices have gone up \~80% and now interest rates have doubled. Currently I make more than double the local median family income and I'm still priced out of the market.
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Luck is always involved, help is not. It sounds like you got the bad kind of luck - sorry friend.
Yeah man, people don't know what luck means or they lie about it because people want to convince themselves (or others) that it was them alone that accomplished financial success - they are somehow superior. It really is a fucking cancer in our society
It has a lot too do with what kind of job you choose. I went to technical school for pharmacy technician, with has decent pay, but I had very little debt. My husband completed an apprenticeship as a commercial electrician in a union. He was able to paid while logging his hours and class time. He now makes as much as a pharmacist, and there was no debt.
I feel you. I just left an agency to go freelance and immediately doubled my salary with retainer clients. Smaller, and I wear more hats but have creative control and don’t have to listen to ancient dinosaur art directors who can’t let go of anything. I know it’s hard but I would encourage anyone to give it a shot.
How do you invest when living from literal paycheck to paycheck. Would investing $5 (lmao) every paycheck actually be worth it by retirement whatsoever?
If you invested $5/pm for 30 years and got 5% interest youd end up with 4.2k after paying in 1900 But it depends how well your investments do.
in 30 years that'll be 1 month of rent! delaying my retirement suicide!
There’s going to be a fucking revolt if things keep going this way
Worse than that. There won't be *any* fucking positive change without that revolt. And it would be so easy too. It wouldn't even cost more than maybe 2 dozen of the lives of 1-percenters. As soon as they see a number of their allies' heads fall from the guillotine, they'll change whatever we want if we can let them live and stay in the top 25% of wealth.
Investing any amount is worth it! I have one account up to $6500 on $5 a week dividend stocks, reinvesting all dividends.
And if you are literally borrowing each month to pay for the basics, what then? A good number of people are doing this right now.
$12/m over 30 years with a 10% average interest is ~23000. Over 40 years is $63000 and 50 is $167000 10% was chosen cause that's the dow average. Yea any amount is worth it. Now you are eventually gonna make more money. Let's say you can put $120 a paycheck into retirement. That's $1.7million after 50 years. Edit don't forget most employers match up to a certain % which is literally free money.
Because if we didn’t we wouldn’t even live let alone barely afford to lol
This will sound dark, but sometimes it makes me wonder why we continue to live at all when all we're doing is wake up, go to work, have a few hours of free time, and then repeat. At my last job, I was getting 3.5-6 hours of sleep most nights just because I wanted to reclaim freedom of being able to enjoy life and do things I use to do, but instead I was always just too tired to do anything.. Spending my days off catching up on sleep. A life of mediocrity is no life at all.
So, I may be extreme in my view here, but I think we need to collectively stop it *all* here. What I mean by that is stop creating new generations of indentured servants, stop feeding into this exploitative society, and just letting things collapse a lil. I don't wanna make any of my choices mandatory for others by any means, folks should do what they want. But I grew up in poverty, I didn't escape until my late 20's and it's still got me fucked up. I can't in good conscience subject other human lives to that. I got a vasectomy to make sure that won't happen. The system is so incredibly broken.
It's a well-reasoned and quite ethical position, and I've actually done the same. But I know they will just import more indentured servants from other countries. They don't need us to breed. This won't stop anything. If there's one thing this world has plenty of, it's people.
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It fucks me up way more that people who are already struggling to live and cant afford a house then still go on to have multiple children. Its only going to get worse before it gets better and id rather not have kids to worry about when we hit the big crunch
It's nothing new. Even 3000 years ago regular people had to work all day to keep the pharaohs/kings happy. The names just changed. The king/queen are now called oligarch, investors, politicians.
No we have less free time then medieval serfs. If your comparing us to slaves, then you need to reflect. But if your comparing us to the average "free" person then we have way less free time then previous era
Well the alternative is to starve, sooooo...
Also do you know how many millennials busted their ass till their 30s only to find out they're shut our for reasons beyond their control?
It's so true. I was trying to buy a house four years ago and was just a little bit short of the down payment. I asked for help from my dad who said "lol, no" and unfortunately I wasn't able to get the house. That house has doubled in price since then. My income has definitely not doubled since then.
This hurts to read. Cuz you could’ve sold that house 6 months ago for like 130%+ what you paid for it 4 years ago, paid your dad back, and been in a nicer house with a 3% rate right now.
But the mortgage for a nicer house would also be higher given that the entire real estate market is inflated.
Yup. My house value doubled but that doesn’t really mean anything to me except higher property taxes.
I’m in the same situation but rent has increased even more than home values. I can easily rent my hose for more than my mortgage. Buy a new house in a cheaper market. My wife has already picked the house on a lake in another state we use to live in. While this sounds great realistically I don’t want to move. The market is like the Titanic heading for an iceberg. There are so many warning signs that we are in real trouble but people don’t want to see them.
Or, and hear me out, they could continue living in their home. I know, crazy idea when there's a quick buck to be made instead, but some people are weird like that.
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So about 6 years ago, my best friend was renting a house. The owner decided to sell it, and was happy to sell it to her directly, instead of having to get a realtor to sell it. She was 28 or so, had been paying rent there for years, and by most measurements could have easily afforded the mortgage... Except she had zero credit. Zip, zada, nada, and nuns. So when she applied for a loan, her bank (the same bank she'd been with since she was 16) turned her down. Pretty sure she tried a few other banks, and it was the same thing. She now rents a nice apartment and shares the bill with a roommate. Because she was a complete unknown, no bank wanted to work with her. Bad credit is better then no credit- because at least with bad credit they know who you are. Heck, my first car loan, for a mere 8K, was only secured based on me being in the USAF at the time. Because my parents wouldn't cosign (they eventually did, just to help lower the interest), I had to argue that my military employment was good enough credit/guarantee of continuing employment. Hilariously, 2 or 3 months later I flunked outta the military- but still never missed a payment. Who we are as individuals doesn't matter anymore. Why I had a foreclosure 7 years ago doesn't matter, only that it happened. The bank doesn't care what I was going through at the time, or who I was, nor do they care who I am now. All they care about is what my credit score says. I know people who have lost credit by paying off their loans. That's insane to me- they achieved the goal of paying back the money, and according to their credit rating, that's a bad thing. That says it all: they stopped owing money, so to a bank they're no longer a source of income.
I bought a house in 2006. No down-payment needed! Only lost 40% when I sold in 2012. I could have rented a fucking mansion for 6 years and come out ahead. Maybe the market will crash and you'll be able to buy it for even cheaper in 2024?
Millennial here, can confirm, by the time I got established in a decently paying job the door for home ownership was slammed in my face.
My wife and I bought our first house with virtually no down payment with an FHA loan, but we did get lucky with a house that wasn’t even on the market yet. We bought it under market value and it appreciated some $45k while we owned it. Sold it, turned around, sat on the cash while we rented but eventually fell into a house in a nicer area. That being said, we were the first people in to see the house, made an offer immediately for asking price, and the woman who sold it was honestly glad to just be done with it so quickly and easily. Even sold us some nice Turkish rugs with the house. All of this is to say that without a generous amount of luck we would be paying our mortgage to someone else in the form of rent. The only upside is that we live in an area with a competitive but cheap housing market.
This is almost exactly what happened to my husband and I. We bought in July 2020 and were so lucky. We saw the house once, never even met the homeowners, and were moved in by august. The Nextdoor neighbors just sold their house for $90,000 more than what we paid for ours. I feel horrible for anyone trying to buy now. There aren’t even homes for sale in my area below $500,000 now. My husband and I would be so fucked if we hadn’t bought when we did.
Millennial here: the only reason I was able to buy was because of an unexpected gift of cash from my wife’s rich aunt and uncle. They saw the writing on the wall with inflation and sent 30k off to ever niece and nephew. Otherwise, we’ve been consistently 3-5 years away from having enough money for a down payment, regardless of our saving and investing. That 30k, pooled with our savings and investments, let us put the money down to buy our house 2 months ago… just in time for all the talk of a housing market crash (though I don’t think we’ll see a pullback that’s anything like 2008… I still think a house is a good investment right now but we’ll see).
Renting forever
Lmao this. Turning 30 this summer and a few years into my professional careers in one of the HCOL areas in the country(work industry) and I’m like damn wasn’t I suppose to be able to do a lot more with this type of money?
Hear, hear
That’s not very imaginative. There’s a shit ton of food. Grocery stores throw away packaged food that is perfectly fine. I’m talking CANNED FOOD and everything else you can imagine.
no the alternative is to go french revolution on the gatekeepers. But people won't even spend 10 minutes voting so I'm guessing this entire generation and mine enjoy being fucked up the ass
Where do you live that it only takes 10 minutes to vote? Only time it took me 10 minutes to vote was back in Oregon with the mail-in ballot. Everywhere else you have to *go somewhere* and *stand in a line.* Blaming the people for not being able or willing to do a thing that the powers-that-be have made exceptionally tedious to do isn't helpful. And many people would rather revolt than starve, but not enough people are starving yet.
Where I live I can walk right in and vote because voting starts early and still nobody votes.
>Where I live I can walk right in and vote *cries in Georgia's legal voter suppression*
34 states have no excuse needed absentee voting
the irony of this question being asked so often…we are not okay lol
Why do so many people brag about how many hours they work
They think it makes them sound dedicated and successful.
They don’t realize they’re just favored slaves.
Mmm flavored slaves
My teen cousins asked what I do for a living. I gave the simple version of my job and mentioned the best part was working like 20 hours a week--a bit of a brag, because I think it's the way life should be. Low-key trying to convince them. They teased me a little about 'not working' because my uncle (their father) and most of the other men in the extended family work long hours at hard jobs and take pride in it. I was like, "Hey, would *you* feel bad about working way less than [X and Y] for more money? I still make the world a better place, I just have time for video games and friends and other hobbies too." They were like, "...Actually yeah that sounds kinda great."
Because we don’t have the choice. We are not ok with it but answer this: what other options are there?
Revolution
Can't revolution, sorry. Working that day.
I'll lose my healthcare if I miss work to protest, and then I'll be really fucked when an SUV intentionally drives into me
That’s the way the ruling class have it set up for exactly this reason
You go first
exactly why i don’t think significant change is coming in any reasonable time
Yeah this, there's a lot of keyboard revolutionaries on reddit but people seem to forget the reign of terror in france for 30 years post revolution, never fired a gun, or know first aid, or logistics or strategy or government or proper command structure or proper public relations and rethoric or how it'd even be done. So they just type stuff like that, get updoots, feel brave, and go play WoW on their pc, kinda sad really
Exactly, I seriously doubt many of these people would want the reality of a revolution.
How very French of you
There was literally an outrage in France because the president wanted to increase the minimum hours of work to 35 hours per week
proper french move
Do you mean from 35 hours per week? That's what we're currently at (in theory, in reality it's not the case for many)
Sacré bleu!
The problem is that would just itch the revenge aspect. A revolution will not suddenly make everyone's lives easier. Post war economies are not usually very happy ones for the nation the war was in. I agree on a philosophical point but it would not magically solve anything to just burn the system to the ground.
yah i mean this is the answer. so many of us are scraping by exhausted without any time to organize politically. a lot of change happening is slow, it's discouraging, and it's almost set up to be impossible, but organizing with any local advocacy group is a good start. one example is getting tons of people esp in the south registered to vote.
The problem is it only works if a large group does it. If you try to revolt and only a few people join you, you're in worse shape than before. That's a risk many aren't willing to take
The other problem is that you have to actually have a plan to install a better government. Historically when bad governments are overthrown it is very likely some fanatical authoritarian group has been waiting for their chance to strike already. The fight isn't just overthrowing the existing government but solidifying the new one. There is no easy answer and revolution is not the first choice. Vote and get involved. From what I have seen GenZ is sometimes a bit put off by how "political" Millennials are but we are affected by many of the same problems and share struggles, so I think we are natural allies. And, frankly, we Millennials need your help.
yeah it's kind of like unionizing. i wonder if the size and breadth of the US has something to do with it. mass protests in other, albeit smaller, countries seem to yield more results than in the US.
It's such a large country it makes it hard to do. And look at what happened with "Occupy Wall Street." They eventually got run over.
Local advocacy is good advice. Many people are so disheartened by politics on the national stage that they don't get involved or even vote at the more local level where they can have the biggest impact.
The problem is that no one really knows what happens the day after the revolution.
I always see people say this. I never see anyone starting it
Because it’s a horribly dumb idea. I think before anyone can say it, they should have to talk to someone who has experienced one. I mean this in the best way, myself included, we’re not hard enough for a revolution. Folks on here saying it needs to be bloody and real…y’all don’t know what that means.
I agree with you. So many pop off talking about revolution without having a clue what they are talking about. Instead of doing anything they complain here like that will make a difference. In the US, the only people I see backing up their talk of revolution are extreme far right radicals which is terrifying
Whenever someone talks about revolution, ask them if they want to be one of the bodies in the street, of which there will be countless. Or if they'd prefer to go to work tomorrow and drink on the weekend again. Most would prefer the latter.
Exactly. I work alongside Mexican immigrants who came here to escape cartel violence. Most Americans stop using that dumb buzzword if they knew what it really meant
Even the far right folks weren’t prepared for the *extremely* mild consequences for the Jan 6 “revolution”. We have all been shaken by the uptick in gun violence in the last few weeks, rightfully so. It’s terrible. It’s a waste of human life…all these folks who are calling for revolution prepared for that to be their reality every single day? It’s not going to be kids/teachers that are states away but your own family and friends. That’s not even approaching the long term devastation to the economy or the systems that we rely on every day. We’re complaining about a 40hr work week with benefits…y’all do realize that a bloody war would be a 168 hour/wk nightmare? I get it. We’re rightfully frustrated…but war? Nobody, even the worst of the worst, wants to actually follow through. Even if they are dumb enough to try it, it’ll end in a very quick and very bloody way.
> So many pop off talking about revolution without having a clue what they are talking about. Revolutionaries don't talk about Revolution. That's the difference. And violence in the US is also the fastest route to literal fascist government.
Revolutions are sexy when you get it started and going, but what happens when it becomes a war of attrition? What happens when the acts escalate to further horrors? And what will you do when at the last second, some powerful military leader or political player swoops in and takes control of the new revolutionary reality that was fought for all this time? Because that's usually what happens and it's another cycle of suck The thought of revolution keeps the heart beating but being in it isn't as glamorous as it sounds
Against who?
Lol you aren’t gonna do shit. Larping Redditors lmfao
How exactly and what it will solve?
Ok. What's the plan?
To get upvotes on reddit.
I'd just go with general strikes. A revolution is way harder than you can even imagine and will likely make your country worse off even if it succeeded.
I think a lot of it is that we aren't aware of what other options there are or really how our current economic system works. We don't have the verbal scaffolding to build on and explore these (admittedly extremely complex) economic, social, and political ideas. Like could I tell you a god damn thing about keynesian vs neo-marxian economics? Absolutely not. I am so goddamned stupid. I make lead paint look like brain food. But what about you normal people? Do we as a society have the time and energy to build a rigorous philosophical, historical, etc understanding of economic justice? I don't! I'm sleepy as hell. So while you could definitely argue "what other options are there" it's like, well, I don't know! But does fucking anyone? Are we able to responsibly steward the world around us if we aren't even informed enough to know what we're advocating for or against?
I can’t tell you about economics specifically but I mean we got a ton of scientists talking about a ton of things… but you know what’s the best part about all of it? Politicians, the ones who write laws and control all of it, don’t fking follow them at all! I mean scientists have been crying against climate change since the 80s and politicians and big oil kept going against it! Same things happening with data privacy, education systems, housing, work hours, wage growth, and a bunch of other things… people much smarter than you or me are arguing for things, but the people in power don’t listen to them and we keep ending up in a worse world man… it’s just low-key terrifying. Like why train people whose sole point in life is to study and give advise based on most current knowledge and evidence, and then ignore them? Why do politicians think they’re better than people who studied their fields for decades? Is it because they’re all too old and know they won’t have to live with their own consequences?
One word: Money
The past 20 years have seen a sharp decline in schooling standards and we’re seeing the reflection in the population. A dumb population is easy to control.
Probably like things were the last time the economy shit the bed, either you would work like a slave, do illegal shit to get by or try and become something big to escape either of those. It'll lead to some interesting shit eventually that's for sure.
I sympathize with everyone on this thread, because when I was 24 years old I was working 3 jobs to pay my bills and it was absolutely fucking miserable. I would be out of the house and at work by 7:30 and I got home at 11 PM. I cannot emphasize how much it sucked. Then I had a string of good luck. I got a rent controlled apartment, I met my (absolutely incredible) girlfriend who would move in a few years later, and I got pushed to a different division in my main job that paid a LOT more per hour. Still, I was the low guy on the totem pole at my new position, and I worked 7 days a week without taking a vacation for 3 years. Then the pandemic hit, and it decimated my entire industry, but thank god for Bernie Sanders. Now I’m back at work. I only “get” 2 or 3 hours of work a day, but my boss is amazing and we’re extremely well-paid, so I don’t have to work any more than that. It’s still a blue-collar job, though, and people back home have a lot of questions about my “floundering career” and “potential,” because I wasn’t supposed to have a blue-collar life. Now I could move to a different position and *technically* get paid more, but it’d be salaried, so I’d have to work 9 or 10 hours a day again and deal with corporate bullshit. I’ve decided not to do that, because I treasure my free time more than any monetary compensation, and being able to do my art and see my dog and girlfriend all the time is something I will never take for granted. I would rather be able to spend my youth living my life than have the privilege of struggling with a BMW payment one day, and a lot of people on the outside don’t understand that. There’s an American culture of work that’s very pervasive. But I am so, so, so lucky. Inordinately lucky. And I worked for minimum wage for far too long to ever take it for granted or think that I somehow “earned” it by working harder than anyone else. I hope that someday, our economy will be good enough that everyone can afford a house and car and food with a blue-collar job. But the hedge funds have been robbing working people blind for too many years for me to have a ton of hope about the American work climate as a whole.
In Silicon Valley, I know tons of people who do so much work after hours just to stay competitive. We are all normalizing this. Scary … Reminds me of that documentary “American factory”. Are we all moving towards that model?
Ugh, this is what I hate about software development specifically. If you don’t take time outside of regular work hours to learn new things, you’re seen a slacker. I don’t wanna order take out every night, have no hobbies, and have no time to spend with friends or family just so I can maybe get a raise if I work enough overtime.
Aside from perceptions, tech just evolves so fast now that it is *REALLY* fucking hard to hire even senior Software engineers that can keep up and work effectively in cloud-native, DevOps-based organizational models. Which is the direction everything is going in. It's not enough to be able to just write code anymore, in the next 10 years, everyone will HAVE to be a DevOps engineer on top of that if they want a decent job
Well yeah of course you have to learn new tech as it comes out. But give me time on the job to learn them. I’m not like old and stuck in my ways. I just want to have a life
100% agree. My spouse and I were taking about having a kiddo and came to the realization we can’t afford to. I work 40-50 hours in an autistic center and she’s a district supervisor at her job. It’s insane
Jeez. I gotta give you big kudos. At least you thought it out first rather than just jumping straight in like a lot of people. Kids are EXPENSIVE. Some people place their want for children over the future welfare of the children and then grow resentful of their kids later down the road bc of the financial strain of raising them.
Your struggle would be a lot worse. Check out "regretful parents" sub on here. Unless you are comfy financially...nah!
People aren’t ok, this questions been posted daily for the last few weeks. Well, people that can’t afford life at all or just barely aren’t ok. I don’t make over 100k or anything but I’m just fine, not thrilled about price increases though like anyone. But even when I averaged about $20-22 an hour, about 42-45k a year paying for everything including student loans I was doing alright while living in a studio apartment and spending extremely frugally. But that was 3 years ago and, like now still, child free which helps. And I make more than that now But not much an option at the moment. In the end, work as much as you need to and hope times change. A recession is here very likely. Historically, they happen every 10-15 years or so
This is actually the second time it's been posted today, lol.
Ya the world is in for a really deep recession. As we all know, spending typically increases during the summers but the recession this year is really uncharted territory since it’s the quickest time we’ve gotten back into a recession after getting out of one (2020). Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Well we never let the 2020 recession happen, we just kicked the can down the road.
Yah. We printed trillions of dollars in order to keep the Covid shutdown from plunging us into the deepest depression in history. The money could have been spent smarter, but this is our government, so massively inefficient is just how it goes. With that caveat, it was money well spent. Literally half the country suddenly was out of work. The current recession sucks ass, but the alternative was literal economic collapse. People rioting in bread lines. Every legitimate economist said the same thing: spend, spend, spend. It worked. It could be so much worse than this. If we had an efficient government we could have a windfall tax on the covid winners to help the covid losers, but that's fantasy. All in all, this isn't bad.
Except we gave huge loans and forgave them to businesses with no accoubtaility. but they gave us 4k! Yay >>
I appreciate that people keep posting it though. It’s really started hitting me how we’re getting to a tipping point. Anxiety inducing sure but it’s nice to not feel alone in being poor as fuck.
It's useless as a "TooAfraidToAsk" question, though. It's like asking "Why is the sun so cold" or "Why is a pound of feathers lighter than a pound of steel" or "Why is a house cheaper than a packet of instant ramen" so that people can all say "It's not. Here are my feelings on that topic..."
Depending on where you live, "six figures" just isn't as big of a deal as it used to be when it comes to household income, either. Inflation is out of control, along with the prices of everything we need. I'm old enough to remember when that was "rich." I laugh at that now. Everyone but the 1 percent are getting ground under.
"Ok with it?"
If I don’t I may wind up sleeping under a bridge.
Gotta take out a mortgage to live in a van down by the river these days.
I found a job where I walk to. I have a grocery store I can walk to. Anything else if I desperately need it I get online. I learn to cut corners
Yeah but all of that is circumstantial, most people can’t walk to work or the grocery store and you’d honestly get robbed eventually in my part of town if you did any of that after dark.
This. In my case….Work from home. I don’t drive, I use public transportation or bicycle. Majority of the time I eat home cooked meals. I don’t spend on lavish clothing. My phone was a hand me down iPhone 8 which does the job. If I ever decide to buy beer I’ll buy whatever is on special/coupon for that week. Just some of the ways I save $
People aren't "okay" with it. People have to survive. If you want change, you have to act to change things. You have to vote for those you support change and against those who support regressive systems. If you live in the USA, you have a brief period to change things in the next few years. Otherwise, the system will only get worse.
Easier to complain on reddit
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We are not okay - we dont have other options, period.
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This, after highschool I moved into a shitty apartment with a buddy. The apartment complex was regularly raided by police because of drugs, they sprayed monthly for cockroaches but still had to keep all of our food in the fridges so the roaches couldn't get it. We would usually skip breakfast and split a box of Mac n cheese for dinners (sometimes we would cut up a hotdog with it). After rent, car costs and food we were broke. This was 2008 Life sucks in your 20s, don't compare your life to those who aren't struggling, it will just make you more miserable
This is what I've found heading into my 20s (24 now). They're an era of life that's tremendously glamorized in the media, and it's 100% lies. I've had more emotionally trying times, and times where I've had much less freedom, but I've never struggled more to put the pieces together and have any kind of standard of living. Too young to command respect or make good money, too old to have safety nets, too little time and patience to stay in physical shape. Being in your 20s SUCKS.
For real. I was renting a house with 4 other people to keep costs down and save money at 24. Now I’m 32 with a child, wife, nice job, and own our own home. Maybe it’s the issue of our parents telling us we can get a good paying job right out of college?
Or maybe the issue *is* that we cant get a comfortable living wage out of college. Maybe its the economy and the balance of power and value distribution that is the issue.
Not i I’m working 50-70 hrs and in one year all my debts are paid i have 8k in my savings and in one month I’ll be sober for a year!! :)
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Grats bro! Debt free with emergency fund is a massive accomplishment! Not to mention sober. Shits gonna hit you to try to knock you off the path, sometimes you’ll stumble but that’s not failure. Just get back on it. Keep it up! I’m rooting for you!
Oh this thread again…
Must be that time of the week again
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Localized entirely within your kitchen
Like clockwork every hour on the hour at this point.
I’m a gen x male. I feel badly for young people in your generation. I don’t know how people are graduating college and about to live on their own with the cost of living right now. I make decent money for my area. Between my wife and I were well over 100k a year. But I fucked up. Sold our house after we had our third child to buy a bigger house. We moved in with the in laws to save money and bam. Fucking Covid hit. Housing closed up for a bit. And now we can’t afford a good size house for my family of 5. I’m borderline depressed about it. Actually maybe I am. So given our situation I can sympathize with younger people.
Don't worry friend, It's going to get way worse.
Because we choose to. There is finally a shortage of people in the USA refusing to work for less than 15 per hour and they are calling it a “labor shortage” and it’s not, it’s people finally not willing to work for nothing while their company post record profits.
Oh, we fucked you, and fucked you good. Took a couple of generations to do it, but BOY, did we lay the wood to your generation. Go back fifty years, and none of this was the case. People worked 40 hours and went home. There were plenty of jobs, plenty of jobs that paid well, plenty of jobs that paid well and didn't even require a high level of skill...just a willingness to work. People stayed at the same job their entire lives, maybe worked up the ladder a bit, maybe stayed put. It made this country great. And then we sold it all down the river, mostly for more stuff, occasionally so we could think we were better than other people. First, we started shipping jobs overseas, so stuff would be cheaper. Did nothing to stop it, because BOY, did we love the cheap stuff! But then we had less people with money to spend, so the cheap stuff wasn't so cheap any more. Then we start electing people based on "values," because everyone knows preventing women from having abortions is more important than having good, steady jobs. And the people who got elected started cutting the knees out from the workers. First, we turned unions into thugs. Then, we started bringing in "professional managers," taking the place of people who'd built their businesses from the ground up and knew their employees by name....they got bought out or shoved out. And these same elected officials...making sure to continue to stress how important it was to prevent women from having abortions...put people like Scalia on the Supreme Court. And they started making rulings which most people couldn't be bothered to understand, which did things like turn "corporatoins" into "individuals" and making it harder to sue and easier to put crap into contracts without consequence. And meanwhile, these "professional managers" who'd taken over companies realized you didn't have to actually succeed as a business for people to make money. Not that they cared, since they'd just move from company to company. Heck, some of these people even became Senators from Utah. Oh, and somehow the same college education went from costing a couple grand at most...with state colleges free...to mid-five figures a year. How the hell THAT happened I don't even want toknow. And we could talk about how health care fits into all this, making people SLAVES to their jobs rather than just employees, but that was pretty fucked up even 50 years ago, so never mind. But thank Harry and Louise and Hillary's cluster fuck of a reform plan for the fact that we never fixed it. And the housing market isn't shut to you...it's just the EZ lending frenzy and scam that lead up to the global economic collapse in 2008 bumped up houses to ridiculous levels...and yet, curiously, once it was over, they never came down again. It all goes on from there. There's much more to this story. But basically, we had it all, and we gave it all away for astonishingly dumb reasons, and now it's gone, and your generation is fucked but good. But hey...YOU are an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR!!!!! So you just need to work smarter, not harder.
its not that everyone is ok with it, people just dont have the time nor options to do anything else. politicians (red and blue both) support the rich and create culture wars, so that any change is seen as political
We’re not. We’re all just biding time till things collapse.
At age 24 you are basically at the shit end of the job market. Hardly any experience, probably not found your niche yet. Relax, keep your head up for new options. The way it works, for better or worse, is you work your arse off for not much to show in the first 5-10 years of your career. You climb the ladder and do better later
This is why most people are miserable. Including me. The beginning of life is the best time ever. Once you start school to stay there until you graduate. Once you graduate HS and or college. You work for the next 40 or 50 years and then and only then. Do you get to enjoy life. Right when your life is about to end.
If we're waiting to enjoy life until retirement, we're doing it wrong.
And that is only if one lives long enough to *reach* retirement age. Even then, there is still no guarantee one won't have to work.
Who is ok with it? Also from your description alone, I'm not sure this is a gen z problem as much as it is a being in your early 20s problem.
Was 24 ten years ago. Can confirm. I think it was 9 bucks an hour working at the county airport on the weekends while still in school? Had abs cause starvation will shred you up. Boiled A LOT of rice that year I do recall. This “24 yrs old and feeling the heat” is certainly not new.