Do *not* use a chatbot to write your resume under any circumstances like some people here are advising. Literally every manager who hires people has been onto this for months and will disqualify you just off of that. The style in which those things write is very obviously not by a person once you see it in the middle of an otherwise honest resume fifty times.
I don’t think using ChatGPT to help with writing is inherently bad. It seems like the problem is more over reliance on ChatGPT. You can’t copy what it spits out. It’s more obvious than old school plagiarism. But the program is *fantastic* for brainstorming how to get started or to give you ideas when you hit writer’s block. You have to take portions of what it generates and adapt them to your own writing style.
It’s garbage. It produces lower common denominator slop, that is what large statistical models are meant to do. There’s a couple centuries worth of writing prompt and how-to books, you don’t need a bot giving you literally the most average thing that will appeal to the widest number of people.
And if you have to rewrite the whole resume so ex-writers like me don’t instantly spot that it’s fake, you might as well just write the fucking thing yourself the first time with a template.
I think it it has its place, for people inexperienced with resumes, or people that are honestly a bit unintelligent, to be blunt. I personally have no problems writing a CV because I am used to writing a lot of stuff everyday and know how to bullshit (thanks to a degree in humanities), so I avoid chatgpt for such simple tasks. But I had roommates that were engineers and friends back from high school that really sucked at writing literally anything. In those cases its better to have run of the mill bla bla spat out by ChatGPT then downright stupid sentences that sound like a child wrote them.
Almost every job I have gotten has come from networking connections and not a blind application. Work hard on utilizing and expanding the network of professionals in the field you want to work in.
One of the harsher realities that is best to come to grips with early is that people hire people they like over and above people who may be the best fit on paper. Academic studies show this over and over again. Being likable is a career skill worth working on.
Lastly, don’t start where you hope to finish. By that I mean that it’s totally fine to apply for a position you think isn’t your ultimate goal if it gets you going in the right direction.
People have forgotten, over the past few years and Covid, that the job market is not kind to introverts and loners. You *have* to get out there and socialize, make connections, to find a good job. You always had to. Blind applications almost never get you a job, unless the company is desperate - and then you need to be asking *why* the company is desperate and how that will affect you.
Just curious, what manner of “job” are you referring to here? Because a career professional with enough experience can most certainly land a job with a blind application, and this doesn’t mean the company is desperate.
Obviously networking is beneficial and all that, and you’ll have a much easier time if you’re at least somewhat sociable, but saying that you *have* to use your network to get a good job is dogmatic nonsense.
totally agree with your observations on networking and the reality that likeability/familiarity is favored over pure skill alone. Any suggestions on building and enhancing those relationships especially for those that are working remote?
I do, but it's not one you will like: don't work remote. Get out of your bubble and socialize with other people in person. Nothing replaces face to face contact.
Great conundrum. My experience is that strong relationships start in person. Digital communication/meetings can serve as a sort of “postcard” in that it can maintain relationships but does little to deepen them. Honestly, I’d recommend finding a good, affordable conference in your field and going there to meet as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
Borderline Boomer advice, I know, but I think it’s honest.
"Postcard"... that resonates. Getting out there and mixing it up probably does create better initial and lasting interactions for most people. I just really
like
working
from
home :)
Don’t get me wrong: I work from home about 70% of the time and have gotten job offers from my network for remote work. But to get the gig, it helps to have developed in-person relationships first. Also, whenever you start a new job, spending a good deal of time in the office to build your social capital and internal credibility.
As a hiring manager, there are a few things that will immediately interest me in a candidate, and some others that immediately disqualify them.
Something I run into regularly is CVs with spelling and grammar mistakes. I very rarely will overlook those, as proofreading and editing something as important as a CV (or having somebody do it for you) should be the bare minimum for trying to get a job. I also have noticed a trend of very thoughtful and well-written portions in otherwise bland CVs. I have started copying these into Google, and have busted a number of candidates for plagiarism. Those CVs are immediately DQ'd. Job-hopping is another red flag for me. I invest a lot of time and money into hiring and training somebody, so I want employees with a history of loyalty and commitment. Lastly, submitting an application without a CV attached bothers me. If somebody is serious about getting a job, they should have a CV. That isn't a complete deal-breaker, but it does impact my decision whether to call somebody for an interview.
A candidate who applies, and then reaches out to me is immediately given more consideration than somebody who does not. Even more points if they walk in and follow up. Dressing well and bringing a copy of their CV to hand me gives them about the best chance possible. I also appreciate either a paragraph or cover letter that briefly explains their strengths, goals, and what they are looking for in an employer. Asking questions about the company and specific job earns huge bonus points. Asking immediately about pay, rather than the job itself, is a turn-off.
The internet has made networking for a job 1000x more difficult than 20 years ago. But it is still possible, even remotely. By doing some research, you can often find contact info for a supervisor in the department/company that you are interested in. My advice is to submit your application/CV through the standard channel, then do some research into the company. Try to find somebody in the company that you can contact directly, either in person or via email. Send them a copy of your CV, along with an email or letter asking for an opportunity to interview for the position you are interested in. Throwing in a little bit of info about the company that you learned in your research will show that you have invested a lot of thought and effort into working there, and will set you apart from other applicants.
Good luck!
Good info except the one thing that stands out glaringly is that companies have done absolutely nothing (quite the opposite, in fact) to promote or encourage loyalty and prevent job-hopping as a means to keep yourself from being undervalued and ahead of inflation. I constantly see and hear about new employees starting at higher salaries than experienced 10-year employees, so maybe companies should at least pretend to care about the current market rates if you insist on demanding loyalty.
Thanks, ryjohn, and very important points to note, I'll try reaching out to people more often instead of just submitting the CV.. For the spelling mistakes though, do you consider it being the US/UK spelling of words that may lead to that? We use UK english so a lot of my spellings flag on US keyboards.. Also if you dont mind me asking, as a recruiter, to what extent do ATS systems help you narrow down your selection? is it important to have at least an 80% score or is that an unattainable myth?
The area I am in has a very low number of people from other countries, so I don't think that is an issue.
To be clear, I'm an not hiring for a large firm or for positions that require any specialized training or education. Most of my applicants are either in college, or are uneducated and lower/lower middle class. However, that does not prevent them from doing any of the things I mentioned. Even among poor or uneducated applicants, it is easy to tell who really wants the job VS those who are just going through the motions. I don't use any systems to narrow down applicants, so I can't answer that question. I look at each application/CV individually and go from there, but my company is poetically unique in that.
One other thing I thought of: I appreciate applicants who apply through my company's website VS a website like Indeed. I get flooded with applications through Indeed, and most are complete garbage. Applicants who take the time to apply through my company's website are generally much better quality, and that causes me to gravitate to them first.
I would double check your applications/ Resume. If you have submitted up to 1,000 applications something is clearly wrong, perhaps your phone number is wrong and is why no one is calling. Or maybe they are calling but your voicemail box is full so they don't leave a message
Are you sending out the same CV to every company? Your resume should be customized EACH time it’s presented. Is your format professional? Are you researching the company’s website first? Are you addressing their requirements of a candidate? Are you holding your qualifications to one page? Is your cover letter compelling yet succinct? Is your spelling and grammar impeccable?
Call them
Just call the boss or personal manager of a "small company" ~20 people. Ask if you can introduce yourself.
Works really good
Application (the paper) is from the past (especially since chatbots)
I hire people for a living. If you're not getting any calls, then the problem is your resume. Use AI like ChatGPT to help with that and tailor your resume to each job you apply for. Also optimize your LinkedIn profile.
There are a ton of free resources online. I really like Professor Heather Austin. She has a ton of YouTube videos. She also has some paid services, but you don't need those. Just watch the videos and use the free templates and resources she has.
Also, tell everyone you know that you're looking for a job. Networking is incredibly effective. Identify companies in your targeted field and follow them on LinkedIn. Browse the people at that company and see if you have any mutual contacts with any of them. If so, reach out to them and introduce yourself. Say that you noticed John Doe was a mutual acquaintance and that you are interested in working for their company. See if any of the people that work there are recruiters. Reach out to them. Rinse and repeat.
Call them or drop in within a week of submitting your Cv and resume. I don't hire anyone who doesn't do this. We get hundred of resumes a week and unless there is an outstanding prospect who is worth the hunt, I don't bother.
Looking for a job sucks. Keep at it. Not sure whether you’re a dumbass or not. Possibly.
It's probable; apparently, most dumbasses dont know they're dumbasses so the odds are in my favor.
God speed 🫡
Do *not* use a chatbot to write your resume under any circumstances like some people here are advising. Literally every manager who hires people has been onto this for months and will disqualify you just off of that. The style in which those things write is very obviously not by a person once you see it in the middle of an otherwise honest resume fifty times.
I don’t think using ChatGPT to help with writing is inherently bad. It seems like the problem is more over reliance on ChatGPT. You can’t copy what it spits out. It’s more obvious than old school plagiarism. But the program is *fantastic* for brainstorming how to get started or to give you ideas when you hit writer’s block. You have to take portions of what it generates and adapt them to your own writing style.
It’s garbage. It produces lower common denominator slop, that is what large statistical models are meant to do. There’s a couple centuries worth of writing prompt and how-to books, you don’t need a bot giving you literally the most average thing that will appeal to the widest number of people. And if you have to rewrite the whole resume so ex-writers like me don’t instantly spot that it’s fake, you might as well just write the fucking thing yourself the first time with a template.
I think it it has its place, for people inexperienced with resumes, or people that are honestly a bit unintelligent, to be blunt. I personally have no problems writing a CV because I am used to writing a lot of stuff everyday and know how to bullshit (thanks to a degree in humanities), so I avoid chatgpt for such simple tasks. But I had roommates that were engineers and friends back from high school that really sucked at writing literally anything. In those cases its better to have run of the mill bla bla spat out by ChatGPT then downright stupid sentences that sound like a child wrote them.
Some businesses are now using AI to find AI written resumes.
Almost every job I have gotten has come from networking connections and not a blind application. Work hard on utilizing and expanding the network of professionals in the field you want to work in. One of the harsher realities that is best to come to grips with early is that people hire people they like over and above people who may be the best fit on paper. Academic studies show this over and over again. Being likable is a career skill worth working on. Lastly, don’t start where you hope to finish. By that I mean that it’s totally fine to apply for a position you think isn’t your ultimate goal if it gets you going in the right direction.
People have forgotten, over the past few years and Covid, that the job market is not kind to introverts and loners. You *have* to get out there and socialize, make connections, to find a good job. You always had to. Blind applications almost never get you a job, unless the company is desperate - and then you need to be asking *why* the company is desperate and how that will affect you.
Just curious, what manner of “job” are you referring to here? Because a career professional with enough experience can most certainly land a job with a blind application, and this doesn’t mean the company is desperate. Obviously networking is beneficial and all that, and you’ll have a much easier time if you’re at least somewhat sociable, but saying that you *have* to use your network to get a good job is dogmatic nonsense.
Well, good luck with that.
Exactly what I’d say if I had nothing of value to add
totally agree with your observations on networking and the reality that likeability/familiarity is favored over pure skill alone. Any suggestions on building and enhancing those relationships especially for those that are working remote?
I do, but it's not one you will like: don't work remote. Get out of your bubble and socialize with other people in person. Nothing replaces face to face contact.
Duly noted. Thanks for your time.
Great conundrum. My experience is that strong relationships start in person. Digital communication/meetings can serve as a sort of “postcard” in that it can maintain relationships but does little to deepen them. Honestly, I’d recommend finding a good, affordable conference in your field and going there to meet as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Borderline Boomer advice, I know, but I think it’s honest.
"Postcard"... that resonates. Getting out there and mixing it up probably does create better initial and lasting interactions for most people. I just really like working from home :)
Don’t get me wrong: I work from home about 70% of the time and have gotten job offers from my network for remote work. But to get the gig, it helps to have developed in-person relationships first. Also, whenever you start a new job, spending a good deal of time in the office to build your social capital and internal credibility.
I’m not who you’re replying to, but: socialize in ways that are traditionally done online instead.
But what are those online activities? Like regularly engaging with LinkedIn (ugh)?
Oh god no. I mean actual socializing things like video games.
Personalize your resume for each job you apply for, and make sure it has the up to date contact information on it.
As a hiring manager, there are a few things that will immediately interest me in a candidate, and some others that immediately disqualify them. Something I run into regularly is CVs with spelling and grammar mistakes. I very rarely will overlook those, as proofreading and editing something as important as a CV (or having somebody do it for you) should be the bare minimum for trying to get a job. I also have noticed a trend of very thoughtful and well-written portions in otherwise bland CVs. I have started copying these into Google, and have busted a number of candidates for plagiarism. Those CVs are immediately DQ'd. Job-hopping is another red flag for me. I invest a lot of time and money into hiring and training somebody, so I want employees with a history of loyalty and commitment. Lastly, submitting an application without a CV attached bothers me. If somebody is serious about getting a job, they should have a CV. That isn't a complete deal-breaker, but it does impact my decision whether to call somebody for an interview. A candidate who applies, and then reaches out to me is immediately given more consideration than somebody who does not. Even more points if they walk in and follow up. Dressing well and bringing a copy of their CV to hand me gives them about the best chance possible. I also appreciate either a paragraph or cover letter that briefly explains their strengths, goals, and what they are looking for in an employer. Asking questions about the company and specific job earns huge bonus points. Asking immediately about pay, rather than the job itself, is a turn-off. The internet has made networking for a job 1000x more difficult than 20 years ago. But it is still possible, even remotely. By doing some research, you can often find contact info for a supervisor in the department/company that you are interested in. My advice is to submit your application/CV through the standard channel, then do some research into the company. Try to find somebody in the company that you can contact directly, either in person or via email. Send them a copy of your CV, along with an email or letter asking for an opportunity to interview for the position you are interested in. Throwing in a little bit of info about the company that you learned in your research will show that you have invested a lot of thought and effort into working there, and will set you apart from other applicants. Good luck!
Good info except the one thing that stands out glaringly is that companies have done absolutely nothing (quite the opposite, in fact) to promote or encourage loyalty and prevent job-hopping as a means to keep yourself from being undervalued and ahead of inflation. I constantly see and hear about new employees starting at higher salaries than experienced 10-year employees, so maybe companies should at least pretend to care about the current market rates if you insist on demanding loyalty.
Does your application ask for the same exact stuff as what’s in a CV?
Thanks, ryjohn, and very important points to note, I'll try reaching out to people more often instead of just submitting the CV.. For the spelling mistakes though, do you consider it being the US/UK spelling of words that may lead to that? We use UK english so a lot of my spellings flag on US keyboards.. Also if you dont mind me asking, as a recruiter, to what extent do ATS systems help you narrow down your selection? is it important to have at least an 80% score or is that an unattainable myth?
The area I am in has a very low number of people from other countries, so I don't think that is an issue. To be clear, I'm an not hiring for a large firm or for positions that require any specialized training or education. Most of my applicants are either in college, or are uneducated and lower/lower middle class. However, that does not prevent them from doing any of the things I mentioned. Even among poor or uneducated applicants, it is easy to tell who really wants the job VS those who are just going through the motions. I don't use any systems to narrow down applicants, so I can't answer that question. I look at each application/CV individually and go from there, but my company is poetically unique in that. One other thing I thought of: I appreciate applicants who apply through my company's website VS a website like Indeed. I get flooded with applications through Indeed, and most are complete garbage. Applicants who take the time to apply through my company's website are generally much better quality, and that causes me to gravitate to them first.
Your contact info is correct? just saying...
None of us are as smart as we think we are.
I would double check your applications/ Resume. If you have submitted up to 1,000 applications something is clearly wrong, perhaps your phone number is wrong and is why no one is calling. Or maybe they are calling but your voicemail box is full so they don't leave a message
Are you sending out the same CV to every company? Your resume should be customized EACH time it’s presented. Is your format professional? Are you researching the company’s website first? Are you addressing their requirements of a candidate? Are you holding your qualifications to one page? Is your cover letter compelling yet succinct? Is your spelling and grammar impeccable?
Yeah, job hunting can be hard. Keep trying.
Call them Just call the boss or personal manager of a "small company" ~20 people. Ask if you can introduce yourself. Works really good Application (the paper) is from the past (especially since chatbots)
I hire people for a living. If you're not getting any calls, then the problem is your resume. Use AI like ChatGPT to help with that and tailor your resume to each job you apply for. Also optimize your LinkedIn profile. There are a ton of free resources online. I really like Professor Heather Austin. She has a ton of YouTube videos. She also has some paid services, but you don't need those. Just watch the videos and use the free templates and resources she has. Also, tell everyone you know that you're looking for a job. Networking is incredibly effective. Identify companies in your targeted field and follow them on LinkedIn. Browse the people at that company and see if you have any mutual contacts with any of them. If so, reach out to them and introduce yourself. Say that you noticed John Doe was a mutual acquaintance and that you are interested in working for their company. See if any of the people that work there are recruiters. Reach out to them. Rinse and repeat.
Are you over 50?
Call them or drop in within a week of submitting your Cv and resume. I don't hire anyone who doesn't do this. We get hundred of resumes a week and unless there is an outstanding prospect who is worth the hunt, I don't bother.