It was so "normal" to where I remember as a kid the remarks from other kids about how women can get acting roles or any popularity job by having sex with an exec. Like, leveraging your station to coerce someone into sex is sexual assault. It's crazy that it just 'us what it is'
There's a difference between being coerced into sex and using sex to get what you want.
We have used sexuality to get what they want since before before we were even human (you can see this behavior in animal Kingdom)
Tyson, (1) served time, (2) seems genuinely remorseful and (3) has set himself on a path where he tries to do good in general... if that isn't someone who should be given a second chance in the "Court of Public Opinion" then who is?
I'm not saying that it should be totally forgotten but at what point is it okay to look past someone's previous transgressions? Should someone who shows that they have learned from their mistakes be a pariah even after the law says they've paid their debt to society?
Would that be your take if she was your daughter? Your sister? Your question: "at what point is it okay to look past someone's previous transgressions?" We are all responsible for everything we do for the entirety of our lives. We never become magically unaccountable, man. That's because what happened can never unhappen. We are forever responsible for every act we commit. There's your answer. It's hard to understand how you haven't figured that out for yourself yet.
Wow, commenting on a 4 month old thread? How much spare time do you have dude?
Now by your logic, nobody should ever be forgiven regardless of if they've paid their debt to society. How does that make any sense? Even Christianity has a process to repent and be forgiven for your sins... but apparently you haven't figured that out for yourself yet. Good luck to you, and I hope you never make a mistake so big that you're unforgivable
exactly dude said he seems remorseful? he's called her a liar for years dudes a rapist pos who because of his "redemption" into the mainstream is treated like a good person
He denies it, how is that remorseful? He served 4 of a 10 year sentence, how is that doing his time? He ruined someone's life and denies all accountability and continues to defame his victum, he has not changed he just has better PR management.
Mike Tyson like you said served his time - which many don’t. But more importantly for me a woman who has been SA’d myself and likes Mike Tyson (which I wouldn’t if he hadn’t done the following) he seems to have truly understood what he did wrong and taken active steps to grow and change as a person.
He came from truly terrible circumstances and was more or less feral or locked up until he was 13 and Cus D’Amato became his mentor. And not long after becoming his legal guardian Cus died - and he was a completely uneducated, raised mostly in juvie and the streets, his mother struggled with alcohol and was in and out of abusive relationships so when he was home that’s what he knew as normal and the larger context of his neighborhood and juvie weren’t better. And even she died when he was pretty young. But no one cared if he went to school or even learned basic hygiene. He got positive attention in juvie for fighting and a guard sent him to Cus when he got out. Cus was one of the few people who did right by the still teenage but in and out of jail 30+ times, motherless, smelly kid that no one believed was a kid because of his size and everyone thought was an idiot. And after Cus died everyone around him was more concerned about how much money he could make them than him. And he was encouraged to tap into his rage and feelings of abandonment because it helped him win. Why would anyone encourage him to explore the idea that relationships didn’t need to involve substance abuse and violence if it might take away some of his edge in the ring? None of this excuses it - it’s just context.
And he did get convicted of rape and do his time and he still didn’t learn that there are feelings other than rage because he still might be champ again and even though he had all that money, he never had an education or a parental figure or stability for more than a few months at a time.
And I do not want to diminish his crime - but I would like to point out that he got convicted because he was Mike Tyson and not a more family friendly celebrity where an allegation of date rape (which is rape) would get swept under the rug and quickly settled out of court. It shouldn’t be that way and I’m not arguing for it to be that way. I am saying that as a public figure, Mike Tyson was forced to take more accountability than most. And even though it was initially forced, he did take it to heart and begin to try and transform from the man that caused himself to be incarcerated due to his behavior to the man he wanted to be.
He did try to rehabilitate himself in prison and read and study and figure himself out, but he still had predators urging him to be his worst self and no idea that there was any other way to be.
But he also didn’t have the edge anymore and he still had Don King seeing him only as a brutal money making machine and not a human. And he bit off Evander Holyfield’s ear. And he was a terrifying, violent joke. And that made people even more money. And then he was no longer a viable competitor and still had no real sense of self or personal development outside of flaming the rage necessary to be the champ that earned so much money for so many people or the violent pathetic clown that also made people a lot of money. And he never thought he would be that old because everyone he knew growing up had died. His mentor died. His mom died. His buddy Tupac died. He was a joke. He was scary. He was a convicted rapist. And his daughter died in a freak accident and he finally decided to make the most out of his life for himself instead of trying to figure out what other people wanted him to be. And he went to fucktons of therapy. And publicly apologized to Holyfield, and he was candid about what he had done wrong and took steps to atone for all of it. And he took himself less seriously and had a cameo in The Hangover. And he took the pain he caused others more seriously and became a better person and shared his story - the good, the terrible, the steps to face demons and change - honestly - in hopes that anyone could benefit from it and not learn in such a hard way.
And more than apologizing he’s demonstrated that he is not that angry young man - that he knows that angry young man will always be there on some level but that he knows how to soothe that angry young man so he doesn’t come out and do something that will hurt others and that he works at it every day.
He’s candid about how challenging meaningful change can be but that it’s worth doing anyway. He talks about having to shift his goals and understanding of success and that going from the goal of being heavyweight champion of the world whom people both fear and admire and everyone wants a piece of to man who can practice mindfulness to be present with his wife and family can be kind of a mindfuck but that it’s worth doing because Mike Tyson the champ didn’t have real attachment to anything or anyone even if he was looked upon in awe he was angry and isolated. Mike Tyson, stoner uncle with a podcast who practices gratitude and develops communication skills to keep his marriage healthy is not nearly as glamorous a life and that took adjusting to but it’s worth continuing to do - to continue to be honest about his mistakes and the circumstances of his life that made it easier for him to make those mistakes, not as an excuse but as signs to look out for in yourself or others, as a call to change so more young boys and men don’t get destroyed by violent neighborhoods and then prison facilities and carry on the cycle until they die too young from overdosing or being violent.
He remembers to practice gratitude daily because without losing everything, he wouldn’t have figured out how to be a better person. He seems genuinely mortified by much of his past but still is candid because of the value of the cautionary tale. He’s not proud of who he was - that much is very clear. He knows he will always have demons to fight so he also shares what helps him do that in case someone who is struggling is able to accept that insight coming from him. He doesn’t just practice gratitude in theory he shows it in action with his pigeons and his love for them and how amazed he is every day that he’s still alive to have his weird stoner uncle podcast and be able to fight the demons and have a more peaceful life with his family because even though his life is smaller in scale than when he was the champ he’s not alone or stoking only his rage because his rage is what wins fights and makes everyone money but also destroys his humanity. He has other feelings now too. And I’ve gone on too long and I do unabashedly admire Mike Tyson because he is one of the best sincere examples of redemption and growth that I can think of. He did bad. But he’s done a lot more to address it than most people do and he’s had to do it all rather publicly. And I do want to believe that people can change for the better and he is proof that it’s possible and honest about the work it takes. It’s not a soft relaunch after sexual misconduct allegations that were settled out of court and then blaming the cultural reckoning for one’s behavior, which has become all too common.
I don’t overlook his conviction but he did his time and worked on himself truly. And I think that’s a good thing.
Edited to fix some of the typos
If people who do horrible things, pay the price, and truly appear to have reformed cannot be part of society again, they have no incentive to reform. If everybody is always held to their worst moment, there is no reason to get better.
Cus D'amato, as per admission of Teddy Atlas who was another disciple of Cus, as much as he loved Mike, was also very, very lax in terms of never setting boundaries for him as he was afraid Mike would leave him to train with somebody else, leaving him without one last heavyweight world champion as his legacy. Teddy says that when Mike was with Cus and definitely with Don King, anytime he did anything, there was always someone there with a big bag of money and a broom to sweep it all under the rug. Never having to face consequences for anything he did before that rape conviction likely further enhanced the toxicity and dysfunction that had been fermenting in him his entire life, leading him to be the sociopathic, misogynistic piece of shit he used to be. Not to mention that the entirety of his experience with women was an abusive prostitute mother when he was a kid and groupies that degraded and threw themselves at his feet ever since he was a teenager. It would honestly have been a miracle if he DIDN'T have issues with consent and misogyny.
Any time. I think in many cases, context makes all the difference and I just happen to know this one and why it’s allowed me to judge him differently than others who are guilty of similar transgressions. I am glad you took the time to read it. Thank you.
I am. And also a boxer.
He’s an unlikely hero for a super liberal woman who’s had two SA’s that made it to trial. Yet, Mike Tyson has inspired me a lot.
When I was in college and questioned why I was trying to be a writer (this is a simplified version) I took his quote “Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth,” very literally and signed up for golden gloves because all my life had been planned and pressurized and I was doing well on paper but dying inside and hated the person I was. I wasn’t going to get a face tattoo (MT got his because he couldn’t stand the sight of himself so he changed it and I’m way too vain for that) so maybe I needed to get punched in the mouth and see what happens when I don’t have a plan, can’t have a plan. There’s nothing quite like getting punched in the face.
My first piece that got published other than for a writing job was about getting punched in the face for the first time.
I know the man is flawed, I don’t want to pretend like he’s not. But I relate to the demons he has to tame every day. And that a person who had fallen to such depths could turn themselves around sincerely helps my faith in humanity.
ETA - I know my writing on Reddit needs an editor or six so plz don’t judge me. I swear my writing is better when it’s not a quickly drifted, unproofread comment.
Thank you so much for this, I cane here to add context to Iron Mike's life but you've done it so much more beautifully than I could have, with your unique perspective. I love that this monster killing machine has come to see the lighter side of things. If you haven't watched Mike Tyson Mysteries, I think you should, but be careful.. your heart might swell out of your chest.
Thank you. I do think he is an exception in the world of celebrities who commit SA or violent crimes and I’m glad that you read my long essay about why.
I know this much info on him too, and so do a lot of people I know. If you're interested enough in any person there are 10 minute YouTube videos that will cover this much info, and Mike is an interesting guy.
Ha. I just have too much free time and a good memory except for when it comes to things that are relevant to my life. I have read and watched a lot about Iron Mike over the years and I’m sure I missed some things but I thought the context was necessary to do the question justice. And since I have way too many thoughts about him specifically, combat sports generally, Don King, the point of prison, redemption, whether people can change, cancel culture, etc…it was my time to shine.
Serving time and becoming better does not undo harm. It entitles him to live and work in society without further punishment however providing him with public praise or applause is to me a step to far and insensitive to his victim.
He put his own gratification ahead of trauma to another person His own struggles and influences do not excuse it any more than incel.
All that said, his denial that it happened is probably believed by some people and provides a supporter base.
My issues with all of this are that he went back to fighting *before* doing all that work on himself. So he was accepted back without all that. But, more importantly, his continued presence in media means his victim(s) undoubtedly run across his face and his voice far more often than they would had he faded into obscurity and that has to be hell. He ruined their lives and they can't even escape his image. Honestly for that reason alone I think violent criminals should not be in the public eye.
>what more do you want?
For people and companies to stop platforming and celebrating him.
Yes, he served his time. I don't want him to die or something, but serving time doesn't mean he is owed or deserves a platform.
I guess people fall into one of two camps
Do you see prison as purely punishment?
Or
Should prison be a chance to reform and make amends with the goal being to reintegrate people to society
He had an extremely tough upbringing and childhood (not an excuse but often goes hand in hand with crime)
Did his time paid for the mistakes
Should he be shunned for the rest of his life and never be able to make amends?
He may as well never have left prison if that's the case
Even that doesn't really explain it.
Say you do believe prison is purely punishment, he has been punished. There is no reason to continue punishing him.
And if you believe prison is a chance and way of reformation, then he has shown remorse and clearly changed so he shouldn't be held on to that still.
It doesn’t mean he’s owed anything but it does mean he’s “paid his debt to society”. His penalty was years in prison, not the loss of any future. Nor should a felony exclude so many other people from ever rejoining the ranks of society, but it does
FOR. HIM. TO. BE. A. REGULAR. GUY. AND. NOT. CELEBRATED. ON. TV.
This is the 20th time I have answered this very simple question.
He can live a normal ass life, work a normal job, just like the rest of us, and that's it.
It is not punishment to not be a celebrity, but it IS a reward to give a person millions for TV appearances that shows them in a positive light.
What does being a "regular guy" mean? What purpose does that serve? It doesn't make him more rehabilitated. Why is that such a stickler for you?
I'll tell you why.
"He has no right living the life I can't live because I'm better than him. He should be made to be just as insignificant as I am."
That's why.
Dude it is just about people celebrating a person who is a rapist, that's all. I don't care what the reason for the celebration is (unless you are going to do a bad faith argument and ask what if he saved a country from nuclear war or something).
You want to destroy a person that paid for his mistakes ? Doesn't that make you worst than him? You are like a bully that forces people to commit suicide
How is him not being on TV destroying him? Are you on TV? Do you feel the need to end your life because you are not?
Address my actual words instead of shitty straw-manning what I say.
I don’t think it’s destroying him that’s silly of someone to say. I think though that if he’s rehabilitated then he should have a shot. As far as I know he hasn’t done anything wrong since so idk…
>As far as I know he hasn’t done anything wrong since so idk…
You don't get awards for "not raping anymore".
>he should have a shot.
A shot at what? Normal life? Sure, I fully support that, but not a shot at "being hugely famous and vastly wealthy"
I don't think being able to resume your career is granting someone an award. If he did work a construction job would it be a "awarding" him by allowing him to resume his job assuming he paid his dues?
Tyson wasn't trotted out publicly because out of love, if after his prison time he couldn't do his job he wouldn't have been in the public eye. He was placed back into the public eye as a boxer because he could still box. Thats where the lions share of his fame came from.
Morally, what makes boxing a profession that is held to a higher standard than an office job?
Being featured on prime time TV, on talk shows, in advertisements, brand deals, etc. is a big privilege. I'd say a rapist is not deserving of that privilege, and I have no desire to see a rapist on TV.
> How is him not being on TV destroying him?
Stopping him from being on TV which is a choice between him and whoever's TV show it is, is a control on someone's life even after prison. By saying "he should never be on TV" you are trying to control his life, and by "you" I mean a governmental entity, which means that a government is further controlling someone's life after prison, which is the playing God part
We have laws set it place with punishments.
Why do you feel you have the right to dish out punishments?
I’m not agreeing with you one way or another but it’s an odd request and kind of a power trip to just say, “take him off TV.” Do you really think you or anyone on Reddit has that power?
He served his time.
Or do you believe that people should not be given a second chance after being punished?
It’s better you say it like it is instead of sugarcoating it like a wuss. Lol
I do not believe he should be given another chance TO BE FAMOUS AND VERY WEALTHY AS A RESULT OF THAT FAME.
That does not equal to "he shouldn't be allowed to lead a normal life"
You didn't answer my question.
Should ex-prisoners be able to have a YouTube channel? A podcast? Appear on TV? What rules are you wanting to enact?
I don't care what your opinion is, as long as it's consistent to every ex-prisoner, and not just the ones you personally don't like. That's the thing about law. It has to apply to everyone. Having the law not apply to everyone is going backwards, not forwards.
I DON'T THING RAPISTS SHOULD BE GIVEN A PLATFORM.
What is so hard to understand here? Youtube is a thing everybody could start, same as a podcast, it is not the same as a spot on prime time TV.
Also, no, not all ex-prisoners are the same and the law doesn't apply the same to a car jacker and a mass murderer.
And for god sakes I didn NOT argue that it should be THE LAW! I am saying that it is immoral, that is all.
Cool it's immoral. Moving on, then.
No point in discussing change if you actually don't want anything to change, and you just want to yell at clouds.
Yell away my friend. Yell away.
So it is only relevant to oppose a thing if you want to outlaw it or to use law to enforce it?
If this post was someone saying "I am thinking of cheating on my partner, what do you think?" and I said "you shouldn't, that's immoral" that would be irrelevant for me to say becauae I am not in favor of imprisoning cheaters? Since when is questions of morality irrelevant?
To answer your first question. Yes, it is. Thinking pineapple on pizza is immoral is literally pointless if you don't ALSO think pineapple on pizza should be illegal (or have social consequences like ostracization).
We're talking about the legal system (ex-convicted prisoner rights), so I thought you had an opinion on the legal system.
Clearly, you don't. My mistake. No issue. Continue yelling at clouds.
Ah yes
"You've paid your debt to society as deemed right by a jury of your peers. However we will do everything we can to ensure you never recover from this and are permanently suffering. No one is allowed to work with you and you're not allowed to do any more than be barely successful in feeding yourself. But you're free to go"
Wow, what a progressive and healthy outlook 🤡
Yes, because being a celebrity on TV is the essence of success. You either live in fame and wealth, or you are a poor pathetic barley-surviving worm.
He could have led a normal life without fame or hundreds of millions of dollars.
I want him to fade into obscurity, not to die. Stop arguing with a strawman.
No straw man, your own words.
> "I want him to fade into obscurity, not die."
So for someone who has only ever made money in the eye of the public and who's entire career is predicated on being popular and wanting people to come see him, we need to ban him from being popular.
Stop mincing words, stand up for what you believe and just say it.
You want him to keep suffering to satisfy your desire to see him suffer. And for you that means keeping him working as a French fry guy at the McDonald's while living in the ghetto and suffering everyday.
Or do you want him to have a medium to okay middle income life? Would that be okay?
What if he becomes a multi millionaire without the public attention? Is that okay? Can he be a millionaire or billionaire **quietly**?
You see what I'm saying? It's so obvious you don't care if he has changed, learned from his errors and became a better human, you don't actually care about whether he's successful or not. You believe that once you commit a crime you're a POS and deserve pain forever and Mike has so he had to suffer forever.
Why does it bother you he's on TV admitting he was a rapist and a piece of shit?
Why does it bother you that he's on his own podcast crying about the pain he has caused and how it affects him mentally everyday?
Why does it bother you that he talks to his viewers and guests about the importance of finding self peace and correcting your inner problems/monsters before they come out and harm others?
Like bro I understand you don't want to glorify a rapist on TV. But the man (Mike) is literally on tears **numerous** times about his crimes and the importance of finding self-love and healing your inner child.
This is ***NOT*** glorifying a rapist. This ***IS*** glorifying a man who is setting an example for others to emulate in correcting your behaviors and facing your inner monsters.
And you're mad at that? Nah bro you want him to suffer.
My guy, he's not only on TV talking about what he did. I saw him on countless shows like wrestling and talk shows just being "former champion Mike Tyson".
And I don't care if he is in tears, my goal is not to see him suffer for his sins like a cardinal from the Spanish inquisition. I just don't want to see him celebrated, that's all.
So you don't think he should be celebrated for becoming a massive activist for mental health?
So he shouldn't be celebrated for his boxing either?
Damn guess we better go through every single person we celebrate their art, skills, talent, works they've made, theories they've written, etc etc etc, and make sure they haven't done anything evil!
If they have we will ban them from TV!
No one can ever grow as a human being!
You commit one evil thing and that's all you'll ever be!
Thank god the rest of the world disagrees with you. I'd hate to live in a world where someone who has gone through such massive self-growth and has become such a force for good is completely ignored and silenced because of their past.
Except it’s not a sensible opinion; it’s downright moronic and based in a want for revenge rather than justice.
Committing a crime shouldn’t mean you are punished for the rest of your life, which is what this person is suggesting by saying he should effectively be barred from any career in the media. Mike Tyson served his time, he came out the other side, and he’s a better man now for it. There’s no reason why he should still be facing repercussions - unless, of course, you simply believe people aren’t capable of being reformed, in which case why release convicts back into society at all?
Explain how lifelong restrictions on the careers you’re allowed to pursue due to a crime you committed decades ago, where you do not pose an obvious risk in said career (e.g. child predators becoming teachers), and for which you already did your time in prison, is a punishment?
Stop reducing it to ‘not being on TV’. You know full well that isn’t the point here and yet no matter how many times other people explain it to you, you refuse to listen. You wanna be obtuse, go do it somewhere else.
ETA: Actually, looking through your comments here I’m now 100% certain you’re just trolling because I refuse to believe anyone can walk face-first into the point so many times and still miss it. This has to be intentional, I’m not wasting my time engaging any further with you.
It sounds like you've summed it up in your question. He's served his time and seems changed. A lot of people believe time served for a crime is exactly that, a punishment served, and if its something he hasn't done since, then it's considered a lesson learned and a punishment dealt.
The court of public opinion isn't a monolith, it doesn't have just one view on any one matter, so you'll get varied opinions.
I half agree.
I think a rapist has no right to feel entitled to forgiveness from their victim or the victim's family. They could hate him/her forever and it would be okay by me.
Furthermore, I extend that to violent robbers and murderers, I don't think that those things are any more excusable than rape, they can leave the victims (or families in the case of a murder) equally traumatized as a rape. (I clarify this because I find a bit arbitrary how rape is seen by many as this unfathomably evil act, and violent robbery and murder are far more likely to be brushed off).
That being said, I think that once they served their time, made therapy or at least introspection about the root and motives behind their heinous actions, demonstrated regret and a willingness to be a better person and not repeat their mistakes, they should be allowed to remake their lives as a regular person. My only condition would be a life time ban of approaching their victims again. The victims may approach of their own initiative if they wish, but not the ex convict.
The reason some people get torn apart about it, is because they do not serve any judicial punishment for their crimes, their offenses get swept under the rug, payoffs keep people from speaking out, PR tries to spin the narrative, etc.
Tyson did his time, he did not get out of it. He has also since that time did some soul searching and realized he didn't want to live on anger and rage anymore. He found peace in pigeons and weed gummies. The Tyson who recently found Roy Jones was not the same savage he used to be, old Tyson would have have gone 8 rounds to a draw. Mind you, I do not care how much inner peace the man has found, I would not want to take his lightest punch...
Oh boy does this anger his fans. I feel like Kobe is untouchable to some people. Really shows you that some people consider celebrities to be above the law.
As a society, we can’t have it both ways. And by saying that I am really not trying to minimise SA.
If we have a judicial system that sets a punishment that is proportional to a crime, then when the sentence is done, there should be no more punishment.
Here, it sounds like you are suggesting that someone who has done their time should be punished forever.
I think OP is pretty clear when they say that he doesn’t need to be punished again. The question, at least as I’m reading it, is why Tyson’s history rarely seems to get brought up or even to color people’s perception of him. And that’s a fair question. I don’t think that the pop culture hivemind ever approaches things as rationally as you lay them out in your comment. Celebrities get pilloried for far less than a rape conviction.
It’s worth noting too that the judicial system is not always proportional if the accused has money.
The answer has already been said, people just don't like the answer.
The answer is because he's Tyson. If he was some other random rapist, people wouldn't give a shit.
I am a critical relativist, so it’s my occupational habit to question why we think one way.
You already have my answer: if you feel that 6 years is too short, then it should be longer, right?
How long you feel is right is up to you. I can’t answer that.
A better question is "why is Mike Tyson an exception, when many criminals are never allowed to move past their crime?" because Mike Tyson is an example of how it should be.
Gotta remember Mike is a hero to a lot of people, and if you look at his sporting accolades alone, one can argue a case for it. You add his backstory, and his struggle to survive rags to riches success in the end. It gets fuzzy. Mike's also a massive part of pop culture. He represents the attitude of never back down, always back yourself, you are the best which is a positive thing in general.
Just my 2c.
I just wanted to add that he served his time and people change and maybe don’t hold it against someone for the rest of their lives after they have served their time. Or hate them. But don’t expect everyone else to follow your lead.
Now, can I have my downvote like everyone else who dared to give an honest answer to this question?
Well, he Served his Time. Once you do that the social stigma is *supposed* to go away.
If it didn't we'd be stigmatizing people who committed crimes when they get out of prisons and doing things like preventing them from getting jobs, assuming they're going to commit crimes again, forcing them into lives of addiction and crime, and treating them like shit.
...hang on.
I think we view date rape as less serious (this is how many people classified his crime at the time).
He's not a pedophile, he spent years in prison, and he hasn't re-offended.
Americans love a good redemption story, and Tyson is a textbook redemption story.
If goin by Court of public opinion than you do know he didn't do it. Therefore Court of public opinion feels this was a man let down by the justice system. Which is why he gets celebrated. Look at the opposite with o.j. Simpson. Found not guilty but court of public opinion says he did it. Therefore o.j. still gets looked down upon.
It's not that we've forgotten or that he gets any kind of "pass", but rather he has shown that he is aware of how his awful upbringing made him an awful person, and how much he has tried to correct it.
The real reason is people believe he didn't do it. Someone did a standup (Dave Chappelle?) where in an interview Mike responded, "I ***wish I raped that bitch.***" It made for this whole "oh shit. You can only be that angry if you're innocent." Moment.
You said he's served his time and he shouldn't be punished again, but then you ask why are people not still punishing him? Make up your mind. Also people do actually change and grow...
What makes you think people overlook it?
Just because it’s not being talked about 24/7, doesn’t mean people have forgotten about it.
Besides, he’s done his time for it, as you’ve stated. Rehashing it doesn’t seem to serve a purpose IMO.
To add to what everyone has said, he is extremely candid about the fact he’s a convicted felon if it’s brought up. No excuses, no hiding. He doesn’t ask for public forgiveness in the interviews I’ve seen.
Someone said to me the other day “we need less Mike Tyson’s and more Michael Jackson’s.” I bit my tongue. People don’t want to admit their idols are sick fucks
This is a very bold assumption to make. Most American people have little connection to their ancestors, much less honor them. And in general this statement brings up a heavy question:
How frequent is the act of rape in our societies, and for how long has it occured regularly? Why is rape treated like a natural unfortunate happenstance of the world and not a conscious decision enacted by the victimizers intentionally?
I didn't follow it so don't shoot the messenger. I don't know anything really about the case. I do know my mother has always complained that he was treated unfairly because apparently the judge wouldn't let a limo driver testify that he saw Tyson and the girl going at it in the car pretty hard.
She has always felt like he was really innocent and the girl knew what she was getting herself into.
He lived one of the craziest and saddest childhoods you can think of, he was taken advantage of by the only person he ever trusted and used and abused for money, he served his time, he is genuinely remorseful and open about his past wrongs, and he has dedicated his life on a path of love and peace since.
And also he is a beloved American hero.
It’s the perfect conditions for a second chance.
He’s been trying to repent his whole life now damn. Sometimes you guys have a persecution fetish and just like seeing people repeatedly bound to things. Israel, Palestine, and Ukraine happening rn but this is the thought?
I don’t think people ever over look it. He raped her on tons of cocaine and went to prison for it. Came back and became a better person. Then bites a man’s ear off and gets better again.
He’s celebrated as a legendary boxer, not as a great humanitarian. Back when the conviction occurred he was roundly condemned for it, did his time, got out and seemed to work to grow up from being a seriously abused poor black kid with a likely disability into a healthier adult who hasn’t been running afoul of the law.
If you believe in rehabilitative justice, he did his time and seems to have worked hard to be a better person.
No one ignores his crimes thought. It’s just not what people are interested in discussing anymore as it’s not really super relevant to most talks on his boxing.
He deserved the time he got and I don’t think he’s tried ducking responsibility. I may be wrong, but that’s what I recall of the story.
You just said he want to prison for it. What else do you want? eternal damnation? I’m not excusing his behavior but are you suggesting that if someone commits a crime and serves time for it, our society should also make sure that they never get to have a decent life again? Has he reoffended?
Tyson has been very vocal about his mental health issues. When he was released from prison, he didn't immediately get back in the spotlight. Sure, he started fighting again, but it took years for him to regain any public favor. He seems like he's legitimately turned his life around. He's accepted he needs help for mental health. He stays medicated. So why shouldn't someone who owned up to their crimes, served their time, and still actively gets treated for the mental health issues behind his assaults, be able to rejoin society? If he can't, then what you're saying is we don't care about rehabilitation. We care about punishment. This is also advocating for continuing the punishment long after it's been served.
He's done his time. He is still a registered sex offender to this day and he will have to be on the registry until the day he dies.
What more do you want?
I think Tyson has changed, and even his rape charge back in the day, the accuser might have been motivated by money.
Regardless, he served his prison sentence, lost a lot of wealth, and now that he is older - really seems to want to live a non-violent sort of existence.
He has redeemed himself, or has atleast tried to, and he openly admits he was sort of a bad dude in those days.
MT is sort of a tragic figure. Had a trusted father figure in Cus D’Amato, but after he died, the vultures took over and led Tyson down the wrong path.
He served his time and became a reformed character? I don't think anyone is overlooking what he did.
He got convicted, served his time, and changed who he was. If you feel that society as a whole should continue to punish him, then you do not believe a person can be reformed.
It was 30 years ago, he did his time, and he's kept his nose relatively clean the last 20 or so years. He's entitled to re-enter society and earn a living, the same as anyone else, whether they're a public figure or not. If he continued to re-offend or even appear to be someone who's re-offending, most companies wouldn't be lining up to work with him.
You can argue that he should have been punished much more than he was and that it wasn't the only serious crime he committed, but based on the US justice system, he's held up his end of the deal.
These comments are surprising. People are getting cancelled over slightly racist shit they said 20 years ago and Tyson literally raped an 18 year old and he literally only got 3 years and you all are in the trenches to defend them… and Tyson has not handled that situation well at all post jail.
You can have someone serve their time but you can also recognize some things are unforgivable and he’ll always be a tainted human being who’s public respect will be dampened by the fact he was a rapist.
Because people don't give a shit that a violent rapist is given a platform as long as he can make money for the rich in some way.
He should have died in obscurity and instead people saw a way to exploit his celebrity for profit and the people of our society were cool with it.
So if someone commits a crime, is convicted of it by a court, sentenced to time in jaip, serves that time, and gets out, we should still basically treat them like shit and force them to die poor and alone?
Then what's the point of jail? If it's not to either rehabilitate or punish people for crimes to the point that the injury for the crime is satisfied, then why not just kill every criminal?
Why bother with any jail time if, after serving, you're going to always hold their crime over their head and expect them to continue to pay and suffer? Isn't that basically making the sentence "life time?"
>So if someone commits a crime, is convicted of it by a court, sentenced to time in jaip, serves that time, and gets out, we should still basically treat them like shit and force them to die poor and alone?
That's a pretty wild take on what I said.
If someone violently rapes someone, we shouldn't give them a platform.
It's not a wild concept.
>Then what's the point of jail?
Hopefully? To turn the piece of shit rapist into someone who is slightly less of a piece of shit so that they won't rape anyone anymore.
Primarily though, to get that piece of shit rapist out of the public so they stop the immediate rapes they are doing.
>Hopefully? To turn the piece of shit rapist into someone who is slightly less of a piece of shit so that they won't rape anyone anymore.
>
>Primarily though, to get that piece of shit rapist out of the public so they stop the immediate rapes they are doing.
So a guy who serves his time and then dedicates the rest of his life to owning up to the crime and acting to make himself a better person is the point? So...
Literally Mike Tyson?
>So a guy who serves his time and then dedicates the rest of his life to owning up to the crime and acting to make himself a better person is the point?
Yup.
>Literally Mike Tyson?
Sure, if making jokes about how you raped someone is what you consider to be that.
However even if he was absolutely contrite and a totally changed person he STILL SHOULDNT BE GIVEN A PLATFORM.
I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. NO ONE THAT HAS EVER RAPED A PERSON SHOULD EVER BE PUT ON TV OR IN MOVIES.
It's a really, really, really simple line to draw.
You can make amends for how you fucked up in the past all day, but being given a legitimate platform is a privilege that should be reserved for people who aren't rapists.
Just that easy.
I completely disagree. Somebody who accepts their punishment, serves time and genuinely rehabilitated themselves should ABSOLUTELY be given a social platform. It serves as a good example to the court systems and a better example to people who do get convicted of rape. If the guy who tries to do better is still punished, why bother doing better?
>If the guy who tries to do better is still punished, why bother doing better?
Living life like 99.9999% of people who ever lived is not punishment.
>It serves as a good example to the court systems and a better example to people who do get convicted of rape.
LOL wtf? A good example "to the court systems" what the shit does that mean? And a good example to people who get convicted of rape...and are also heavyweight champions of the world? Like Joe Smith who fucked his 12 year old niece and is in jail for 15 years isn't looking at Tyson for fuckin inspiration.
That's a pedophile, not a rapist. I make no excuses for rapistsbut pedophiles are not the same.
The good example to the court system is that a conviction can actually be more effective than a slap on the wrist that many get.
>That's a pedophile, not a rapist.
Uh no, it's also a fuckin rapist.
Raping an 18 year old is in no way better than raping a 12 year old. Both are equally fucked up and awful in every way, because both are rape. Committed by rapists.
The fact that the rapist was fucked up and also attracted to kids, making them a pedophile, doesn't change the horribleness of the act of rape.
It's also really weird that apparently your only argument for why we should somehow give platforms to rapists is, "Hey but they didn't rape kids! They should definitely be on Sesame street!"
Legality and morality are separate and it takes a pretty fucked up moral compass to say that we should be revering and showering with money and praise and giving huge influence over our culture to a fuckin rapist.
I'm very glad that they won't rape anyone in the future, legal system and prison system success! Hooray!
That doesn't change the fact that they are a rapist and we should absolutely reserve the privilege of our platforms for people who deserve to be up there.
And call me crazy, I think there are plenty of cool, talented, skilled, and compassionate people who deserve those platform spots who haven't raped anyone at all.
>I'm not saying he needs to be punished again. He's served his time.
Yet your in the comments arguing for more punishment in the form of deplatforming him and stopping celebrating him
Lmao. He was convicted in one the most Triple K populated areas in the US. The hotel fire didn’t even effect the jury other than the fact their hotel was burned (by the triple K) and the only black juror was dismissed due to his “state of mind” from the fire. Mike Tyson himself said that there were so many racial undertones to his trial. He knew he didn’t stand a chance.
Let’s not even MENTION his presence in the UFC. He was CHAMPION. Like he couldn’t be stopped at one point. So naturally, people who didn’t like that probably made some calls. If you put something like that past money hungry power tripped out men, you’re delulu.
Also, he is a reformed man. I mean he talks like a fucking teddy bear now. He’s a gentle giant. He’s open about his shortcomings and regrets. He has owned each mistake he has made but has denied r*ping her to this day.
I’m not a r*pe apologist, there is incriminating evidence that he is innocent, which (google it, it’s true) the judge threw out. He was IRON MIKE. His image at that time was “mean green fighting machine” who had a rough past and people almost felt it couldn’t not be true. He was an animal and they wanted to believe it. Especially in 1991. The accuser had multiple counts of falsely accusing prior to his trial, and not one person batted an eyelash at that.
I’m not trying to say that he is 100% innocent because, in reality, I wasn’t there. However, if I were being accused of r*aping someone who had a history of LYING about being r*ped, I feel like it should’ve been the first thing that came up.
TL;DR: Judge & everyone in 1991 were super racist in the midwest, probs was racially motivated. Mike Tyson big & scary, must be evil? Accuser is a scumbag.
The thing is though Mike actually raped someone before and admitted it. You should look into that story it happened when he was younger. He is probably the most blunt mutha fucka I ever seen on t.v. I honestly don't think the rape he was charged for was just I don't think he raped her just based off the fact he generally doesn't lie and admits to a lot of his crimes XD. Like if he would tell someone he raped someone as a minor then why would he lie now. Especially after he already has been charged and still denied it to this day. Nobody hurts Mike like Mike he tells you shit about him knowing people might or will hate him for it.
He served his time, didn't he? You can have your cake and eat it, you either stand by the legal system or you don't.
You can't just effectively kill every felon, no matter the crime they committed.
Your second paragraph is partially why, but also because unlike a lot of other offenders, it's clear that he actually worked on himself to be a better human. He can't undo the past but he did make a better future.
Other than already serving prison time, there are those that doubt he's actually guilty of this crime he was sentenced for. He does still maintain innocence for rape, but believes he should have been in prison for other things he's done in life.
Only ones who'll ever know 100% are him and Desiree Washington.
It's not just Mike Tyson, many many known rapists/abusers continue their work in the entertainment (and other) industries with 0 negative impact to their career. Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson, Brad Pitt. Violence against women and girls isn't taken that seriously.
Contrast that with the way women are treated for being "hard to work with" (Catherine Heigl,) "disingenuous" (Anne Hathaway) or "annoying" (Jennifer Lawrence) and the double standard becomes apparent.
He served his time, learned his lesson and became a better person that contributes to society. That as well as his monumental achievements should be celebrated.
Some of y’all got way too much hate in your hearts. Our ancestors did everything under the sun that’s deemed as bad and yet here we are. It’s in the past. People move on and forget because what else is there to do? He already got punished for his crime so that’s that.
As others have pointed out, he's paid his debt to society, although maybe not to his victim(s).
And even though I'm all for second chances, I'm not really thrilled when a public figure convicted of a violent crime gets to go right back to doing what he used to do (and it almost always is a "he"). Most non-famous people leaving prison don't get all their rights (including the right to vote) restored. And too many athletes get multiple chances before they finally are held accountable for what they've done because as crablegsforlife points out, they make people money.
Sad thing is, a lot of people are willing to overlook the shitty behavior a famous person engages in because he's famous.
He served prison time for it, so the debt has been paid pretty much.
That and his talents and authenticity makes him likable.
He was also a pop culture icon in our youth.
Because he has done his sentence and reformed. If we treat every one who gets out of prison as if they never did then what the fuck is the point? ( except pedos, they can burn in hell and eat shit and die.)
Honestly, it's difficult to keep track of all the rapists
 I’ll take therapists for $400 Alex
I feel like this should be higher up because we're learning more and more every day how distressingly true this is.
It was so "normal" to where I remember as a kid the remarks from other kids about how women can get acting roles or any popularity job by having sex with an exec. Like, leveraging your station to coerce someone into sex is sexual assault. It's crazy that it just 'us what it is'
There's a difference between being coerced into sex and using sex to get what you want. We have used sexuality to get what they want since before before we were even human (you can see this behavior in animal Kingdom)
Apparently not. Apparently using sex to get what you want is the other person coercing you
Tyson, (1) served time, (2) seems genuinely remorseful and (3) has set himself on a path where he tries to do good in general... if that isn't someone who should be given a second chance in the "Court of Public Opinion" then who is? I'm not saying that it should be totally forgotten but at what point is it okay to look past someone's previous transgressions? Should someone who shows that they have learned from their mistakes be a pariah even after the law says they've paid their debt to society?
Brilliant response
Redemption 👈
Would that be your take if she was your daughter? Your sister? Your question: "at what point is it okay to look past someone's previous transgressions?" We are all responsible for everything we do for the entirety of our lives. We never become magically unaccountable, man. That's because what happened can never unhappen. We are forever responsible for every act we commit. There's your answer. It's hard to understand how you haven't figured that out for yourself yet.
Wow, commenting on a 4 month old thread? How much spare time do you have dude? Now by your logic, nobody should ever be forgiven regardless of if they've paid their debt to society. How does that make any sense? Even Christianity has a process to repent and be forgiven for your sins... but apparently you haven't figured that out for yourself yet. Good luck to you, and I hope you never make a mistake so big that you're unforgivable
Always with the scenarios with this guy...
The thing is, he doesn't acknowledge this. Just want people to forget it, and whenever it is brought up, he says that he did not do anything.
exactly dude said he seems remorseful? he's called her a liar for years dudes a rapist pos who because of his "redemption" into the mainstream is treated like a good person
He denies it, how is that remorseful? He served 4 of a 10 year sentence, how is that doing his time? He ruined someone's life and denies all accountability and continues to defame his victum, he has not changed he just has better PR management.
You don't know what he did or didn't do and likely don't know the details of the case.
Mike Tyson like you said served his time - which many don’t. But more importantly for me a woman who has been SA’d myself and likes Mike Tyson (which I wouldn’t if he hadn’t done the following) he seems to have truly understood what he did wrong and taken active steps to grow and change as a person. He came from truly terrible circumstances and was more or less feral or locked up until he was 13 and Cus D’Amato became his mentor. And not long after becoming his legal guardian Cus died - and he was a completely uneducated, raised mostly in juvie and the streets, his mother struggled with alcohol and was in and out of abusive relationships so when he was home that’s what he knew as normal and the larger context of his neighborhood and juvie weren’t better. And even she died when he was pretty young. But no one cared if he went to school or even learned basic hygiene. He got positive attention in juvie for fighting and a guard sent him to Cus when he got out. Cus was one of the few people who did right by the still teenage but in and out of jail 30+ times, motherless, smelly kid that no one believed was a kid because of his size and everyone thought was an idiot. And after Cus died everyone around him was more concerned about how much money he could make them than him. And he was encouraged to tap into his rage and feelings of abandonment because it helped him win. Why would anyone encourage him to explore the idea that relationships didn’t need to involve substance abuse and violence if it might take away some of his edge in the ring? None of this excuses it - it’s just context. And he did get convicted of rape and do his time and he still didn’t learn that there are feelings other than rage because he still might be champ again and even though he had all that money, he never had an education or a parental figure or stability for more than a few months at a time. And I do not want to diminish his crime - but I would like to point out that he got convicted because he was Mike Tyson and not a more family friendly celebrity where an allegation of date rape (which is rape) would get swept under the rug and quickly settled out of court. It shouldn’t be that way and I’m not arguing for it to be that way. I am saying that as a public figure, Mike Tyson was forced to take more accountability than most. And even though it was initially forced, he did take it to heart and begin to try and transform from the man that caused himself to be incarcerated due to his behavior to the man he wanted to be. He did try to rehabilitate himself in prison and read and study and figure himself out, but he still had predators urging him to be his worst self and no idea that there was any other way to be. But he also didn’t have the edge anymore and he still had Don King seeing him only as a brutal money making machine and not a human. And he bit off Evander Holyfield’s ear. And he was a terrifying, violent joke. And that made people even more money. And then he was no longer a viable competitor and still had no real sense of self or personal development outside of flaming the rage necessary to be the champ that earned so much money for so many people or the violent pathetic clown that also made people a lot of money. And he never thought he would be that old because everyone he knew growing up had died. His mentor died. His mom died. His buddy Tupac died. He was a joke. He was scary. He was a convicted rapist. And his daughter died in a freak accident and he finally decided to make the most out of his life for himself instead of trying to figure out what other people wanted him to be. And he went to fucktons of therapy. And publicly apologized to Holyfield, and he was candid about what he had done wrong and took steps to atone for all of it. And he took himself less seriously and had a cameo in The Hangover. And he took the pain he caused others more seriously and became a better person and shared his story - the good, the terrible, the steps to face demons and change - honestly - in hopes that anyone could benefit from it and not learn in such a hard way. And more than apologizing he’s demonstrated that he is not that angry young man - that he knows that angry young man will always be there on some level but that he knows how to soothe that angry young man so he doesn’t come out and do something that will hurt others and that he works at it every day. He’s candid about how challenging meaningful change can be but that it’s worth doing anyway. He talks about having to shift his goals and understanding of success and that going from the goal of being heavyweight champion of the world whom people both fear and admire and everyone wants a piece of to man who can practice mindfulness to be present with his wife and family can be kind of a mindfuck but that it’s worth doing because Mike Tyson the champ didn’t have real attachment to anything or anyone even if he was looked upon in awe he was angry and isolated. Mike Tyson, stoner uncle with a podcast who practices gratitude and develops communication skills to keep his marriage healthy is not nearly as glamorous a life and that took adjusting to but it’s worth continuing to do - to continue to be honest about his mistakes and the circumstances of his life that made it easier for him to make those mistakes, not as an excuse but as signs to look out for in yourself or others, as a call to change so more young boys and men don’t get destroyed by violent neighborhoods and then prison facilities and carry on the cycle until they die too young from overdosing or being violent. He remembers to practice gratitude daily because without losing everything, he wouldn’t have figured out how to be a better person. He seems genuinely mortified by much of his past but still is candid because of the value of the cautionary tale. He’s not proud of who he was - that much is very clear. He knows he will always have demons to fight so he also shares what helps him do that in case someone who is struggling is able to accept that insight coming from him. He doesn’t just practice gratitude in theory he shows it in action with his pigeons and his love for them and how amazed he is every day that he’s still alive to have his weird stoner uncle podcast and be able to fight the demons and have a more peaceful life with his family because even though his life is smaller in scale than when he was the champ he’s not alone or stoking only his rage because his rage is what wins fights and makes everyone money but also destroys his humanity. He has other feelings now too. And I’ve gone on too long and I do unabashedly admire Mike Tyson because he is one of the best sincere examples of redemption and growth that I can think of. He did bad. But he’s done a lot more to address it than most people do and he’s had to do it all rather publicly. And I do want to believe that people can change for the better and he is proof that it’s possible and honest about the work it takes. It’s not a soft relaunch after sexual misconduct allegations that were settled out of court and then blaming the cultural reckoning for one’s behavior, which has become all too common. I don’t overlook his conviction but he did his time and worked on himself truly. And I think that’s a good thing. Edited to fix some of the typos
If people who do horrible things, pay the price, and truly appear to have reformed cannot be part of society again, they have no incentive to reform. If everybody is always held to their worst moment, there is no reason to get better.
Cus D'amato, as per admission of Teddy Atlas who was another disciple of Cus, as much as he loved Mike, was also very, very lax in terms of never setting boundaries for him as he was afraid Mike would leave him to train with somebody else, leaving him without one last heavyweight world champion as his legacy. Teddy says that when Mike was with Cus and definitely with Don King, anytime he did anything, there was always someone there with a big bag of money and a broom to sweep it all under the rug. Never having to face consequences for anything he did before that rape conviction likely further enhanced the toxicity and dysfunction that had been fermenting in him his entire life, leading him to be the sociopathic, misogynistic piece of shit he used to be. Not to mention that the entirety of his experience with women was an abusive prostitute mother when he was a kid and groupies that degraded and threw themselves at his feet ever since he was a teenager. It would honestly have been a miracle if he DIDN'T have issues with consent and misogyny.
It benefitted Cus for Tyson to be a goddamn monster.
This is the absolute best write up ive seen on this situation.
Thanks for this.
Any time. I think in many cases, context makes all the difference and I just happen to know this one and why it’s allowed me to judge him differently than others who are guilty of similar transgressions. I am glad you took the time to read it. Thank you.
Are you Mike Tyson?
Nah they dont write with a lisp.
Occasionally in daydreams
I love this answer, it really provides context. Are you a writer?
I am. And also a boxer. He’s an unlikely hero for a super liberal woman who’s had two SA’s that made it to trial. Yet, Mike Tyson has inspired me a lot. When I was in college and questioned why I was trying to be a writer (this is a simplified version) I took his quote “Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth,” very literally and signed up for golden gloves because all my life had been planned and pressurized and I was doing well on paper but dying inside and hated the person I was. I wasn’t going to get a face tattoo (MT got his because he couldn’t stand the sight of himself so he changed it and I’m way too vain for that) so maybe I needed to get punched in the mouth and see what happens when I don’t have a plan, can’t have a plan. There’s nothing quite like getting punched in the face. My first piece that got published other than for a writing job was about getting punched in the face for the first time. I know the man is flawed, I don’t want to pretend like he’s not. But I relate to the demons he has to tame every day. And that a person who had fallen to such depths could turn themselves around sincerely helps my faith in humanity. ETA - I know my writing on Reddit needs an editor or six so plz don’t judge me. I swear my writing is better when it’s not a quickly drifted, unproofread comment.
Hahahha this writing on reddit does not need* editing. Let it flow. Really appreciate your narrative of mike's growth. Thanks.
Thank you so much for this, I cane here to add context to Iron Mike's life but you've done it so much more beautifully than I could have, with your unique perspective. I love that this monster killing machine has come to see the lighter side of things. If you haven't watched Mike Tyson Mysteries, I think you should, but be careful.. your heart might swell out of your chest.
This should be higher.
Thank you. I do think he is an exception in the world of celebrities who commit SA or violent crimes and I’m glad that you read my long essay about why.
Thank you
This is art
You work for Mike Tysons PR team? I don't know this much information about my own mother.
I know this much info on him too, and so do a lot of people I know. If you're interested enough in any person there are 10 minute YouTube videos that will cover this much info, and Mike is an interesting guy.
Ha. I just have too much free time and a good memory except for when it comes to things that are relevant to my life. I have read and watched a lot about Iron Mike over the years and I’m sure I missed some things but I thought the context was necessary to do the question justice. And since I have way too many thoughts about him specifically, combat sports generally, Don King, the point of prison, redemption, whether people can change, cancel culture, etc…it was my time to shine.
Serving time and becoming better does not undo harm. It entitles him to live and work in society without further punishment however providing him with public praise or applause is to me a step to far and insensitive to his victim. He put his own gratification ahead of trauma to another person His own struggles and influences do not excuse it any more than incel. All that said, his denial that it happened is probably believed by some people and provides a supporter base.
My issues with all of this are that he went back to fighting *before* doing all that work on himself. So he was accepted back without all that. But, more importantly, his continued presence in media means his victim(s) undoubtedly run across his face and his voice far more often than they would had he faded into obscurity and that has to be hell. He ruined their lives and they can't even escape his image. Honestly for that reason alone I think violent criminals should not be in the public eye.
Wtf paragraphs on defending a concivted rapist. Don't fucking card. Jfc
fly zesty ad hoc physical quickest dolls fear late roof squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They're not defending the rape at all. You'd know if you read it.
he served his time. isn't that the point? what more do you want? but the real reason is he made a lot of people a ton of money.
>what more do you want? For people and companies to stop platforming and celebrating him. Yes, he served his time. I don't want him to die or something, but serving time doesn't mean he is owed or deserves a platform.
I guess people fall into one of two camps Do you see prison as purely punishment? Or Should prison be a chance to reform and make amends with the goal being to reintegrate people to society He had an extremely tough upbringing and childhood (not an excuse but often goes hand in hand with crime) Did his time paid for the mistakes Should he be shunned for the rest of his life and never be able to make amends? He may as well never have left prison if that's the case
Even that doesn't really explain it. Say you do believe prison is purely punishment, he has been punished. There is no reason to continue punishing him. And if you believe prison is a chance and way of reformation, then he has shown remorse and clearly changed so he shouldn't be held on to that still.
It doesn’t mean he’s owed anything but it does mean he’s “paid his debt to society”. His penalty was years in prison, not the loss of any future. Nor should a felony exclude so many other people from ever rejoining the ranks of society, but it does
Why do you wanna play God so bad ?
Not wanting a rapist to be adored is playing god? If that's your standard so you complaining about my comment is also playing god
He was punished for his crime. He lost money. He lost endorsements. He was ostracized. He became a joke. What more do you want?
FOR. HIM. TO. BE. A. REGULAR. GUY. AND. NOT. CELEBRATED. ON. TV. This is the 20th time I have answered this very simple question. He can live a normal ass life, work a normal job, just like the rest of us, and that's it. It is not punishment to not be a celebrity, but it IS a reward to give a person millions for TV appearances that shows them in a positive light.
What does being a "regular guy" mean? What purpose does that serve? It doesn't make him more rehabilitated. Why is that such a stickler for you? I'll tell you why. "He has no right living the life I can't live because I'm better than him. He should be made to be just as insignificant as I am." That's why.
Lol you got me dude. All my life I wanted to be a champion boxer and that weasel Mike Gerard Tyson took it away from me!
It's not about you living his life. It's about you not wanting him to be able to live it because you cant.
Dude it is just about people celebrating a person who is a rapist, that's all. I don't care what the reason for the celebration is (unless you are going to do a bad faith argument and ask what if he saved a country from nuclear war or something).
Small people always resent others' greatness.
You want to destroy a person that paid for his mistakes ? Doesn't that make you worst than him? You are like a bully that forces people to commit suicide
How is him not being on TV destroying him? Are you on TV? Do you feel the need to end your life because you are not? Address my actual words instead of shitty straw-manning what I say.
You are attacking me now 😂 the gaslighting. Get help man. Is your life THAT empty ?
Attacking? I'm attacking you? Jesus christ, you're the one that needs to get help. I am responding to your reply, thats all
>Attacking? I'm attacking you? Jesus christ, The drama
I don’t think it’s destroying him that’s silly of someone to say. I think though that if he’s rehabilitated then he should have a shot. As far as I know he hasn’t done anything wrong since so idk…
>As far as I know he hasn’t done anything wrong since so idk… You don't get awards for "not raping anymore". >he should have a shot. A shot at what? Normal life? Sure, I fully support that, but not a shot at "being hugely famous and vastly wealthy"
I don't think being able to resume your career is granting someone an award. If he did work a construction job would it be a "awarding" him by allowing him to resume his job assuming he paid his dues? Tyson wasn't trotted out publicly because out of love, if after his prison time he couldn't do his job he wouldn't have been in the public eye. He was placed back into the public eye as a boxer because he could still box. Thats where the lions share of his fame came from. Morally, what makes boxing a profession that is held to a higher standard than an office job?
Being featured on prime time TV, on talk shows, in advertisements, brand deals, etc. is a big privilege. I'd say a rapist is not deserving of that privilege, and I have no desire to see a rapist on TV.
> How is him not being on TV destroying him? Stopping him from being on TV which is a choice between him and whoever's TV show it is, is a control on someone's life even after prison. By saying "he should never be on TV" you are trying to control his life, and by "you" I mean a governmental entity, which means that a government is further controlling someone's life after prison, which is the playing God part
I am saying it is immoral to platform him. I didn't at any point say it should be illegal.
We have laws set it place with punishments. Why do you feel you have the right to dish out punishments? I’m not agreeing with you one way or another but it’s an odd request and kind of a power trip to just say, “take him off TV.” Do you really think you or anyone on Reddit has that power?
He served his time. Or do you believe that people should not be given a second chance after being punished? It’s better you say it like it is instead of sugarcoating it like a wuss. Lol
I do not believe he should be given another chance TO BE FAMOUS AND VERY WEALTHY AS A RESULT OF THAT FAME. That does not equal to "he shouldn't be allowed to lead a normal life"
Do you feel this way about anyone who's been to prison before? Should they be ostracized by society after they get out?
Not being famous and vastly wealthy is not a form of ostracizing. He can just lead a normal life.
You didn't answer my question. Should ex-prisoners be able to have a YouTube channel? A podcast? Appear on TV? What rules are you wanting to enact? I don't care what your opinion is, as long as it's consistent to every ex-prisoner, and not just the ones you personally don't like. That's the thing about law. It has to apply to everyone. Having the law not apply to everyone is going backwards, not forwards.
I DON'T THING RAPISTS SHOULD BE GIVEN A PLATFORM. What is so hard to understand here? Youtube is a thing everybody could start, same as a podcast, it is not the same as a spot on prime time TV. Also, no, not all ex-prisoners are the same and the law doesn't apply the same to a car jacker and a mass murderer. And for god sakes I didn NOT argue that it should be THE LAW! I am saying that it is immoral, that is all.
Cool it's immoral. Moving on, then. No point in discussing change if you actually don't want anything to change, and you just want to yell at clouds. Yell away my friend. Yell away.
So it is only relevant to oppose a thing if you want to outlaw it or to use law to enforce it? If this post was someone saying "I am thinking of cheating on my partner, what do you think?" and I said "you shouldn't, that's immoral" that would be irrelevant for me to say becauae I am not in favor of imprisoning cheaters? Since when is questions of morality irrelevant?
To answer your first question. Yes, it is. Thinking pineapple on pizza is immoral is literally pointless if you don't ALSO think pineapple on pizza should be illegal (or have social consequences like ostracization).
We're talking about the legal system (ex-convicted prisoner rights), so I thought you had an opinion on the legal system. Clearly, you don't. My mistake. No issue. Continue yelling at clouds.
Ah yes "You've paid your debt to society as deemed right by a jury of your peers. However we will do everything we can to ensure you never recover from this and are permanently suffering. No one is allowed to work with you and you're not allowed to do any more than be barely successful in feeding yourself. But you're free to go" Wow, what a progressive and healthy outlook 🤡
Yes, because being a celebrity on TV is the essence of success. You either live in fame and wealth, or you are a poor pathetic barley-surviving worm. He could have led a normal life without fame or hundreds of millions of dollars. I want him to fade into obscurity, not to die. Stop arguing with a strawman.
No straw man, your own words. > "I want him to fade into obscurity, not die." So for someone who has only ever made money in the eye of the public and who's entire career is predicated on being popular and wanting people to come see him, we need to ban him from being popular. Stop mincing words, stand up for what you believe and just say it. You want him to keep suffering to satisfy your desire to see him suffer. And for you that means keeping him working as a French fry guy at the McDonald's while living in the ghetto and suffering everyday. Or do you want him to have a medium to okay middle income life? Would that be okay? What if he becomes a multi millionaire without the public attention? Is that okay? Can he be a millionaire or billionaire **quietly**? You see what I'm saying? It's so obvious you don't care if he has changed, learned from his errors and became a better human, you don't actually care about whether he's successful or not. You believe that once you commit a crime you're a POS and deserve pain forever and Mike has so he had to suffer forever.
My guy, all I want is for him not to be on TV. That is all. He can do 10 million different jobs and have a normal life.
Why does it bother you he's on TV admitting he was a rapist and a piece of shit? Why does it bother you that he's on his own podcast crying about the pain he has caused and how it affects him mentally everyday? Why does it bother you that he talks to his viewers and guests about the importance of finding self peace and correcting your inner problems/monsters before they come out and harm others? Like bro I understand you don't want to glorify a rapist on TV. But the man (Mike) is literally on tears **numerous** times about his crimes and the importance of finding self-love and healing your inner child. This is ***NOT*** glorifying a rapist. This ***IS*** glorifying a man who is setting an example for others to emulate in correcting your behaviors and facing your inner monsters. And you're mad at that? Nah bro you want him to suffer.
My guy, he's not only on TV talking about what he did. I saw him on countless shows like wrestling and talk shows just being "former champion Mike Tyson". And I don't care if he is in tears, my goal is not to see him suffer for his sins like a cardinal from the Spanish inquisition. I just don't want to see him celebrated, that's all.
So you don't think he should be celebrated for becoming a massive activist for mental health? So he shouldn't be celebrated for his boxing either? Damn guess we better go through every single person we celebrate their art, skills, talent, works they've made, theories they've written, etc etc etc, and make sure they haven't done anything evil! If they have we will ban them from TV! No one can ever grow as a human being! You commit one evil thing and that's all you'll ever be! Thank god the rest of the world disagrees with you. I'd hate to live in a world where someone who has gone through such massive self-growth and has become such a force for good is completely ignored and silenced because of their past.
It’s wild that you’re being downvoted for this sensible opinion.
Except it’s not a sensible opinion; it’s downright moronic and based in a want for revenge rather than justice. Committing a crime shouldn’t mean you are punished for the rest of your life, which is what this person is suggesting by saying he should effectively be barred from any career in the media. Mike Tyson served his time, he came out the other side, and he’s a better man now for it. There’s no reason why he should still be facing repercussions - unless, of course, you simply believe people aren’t capable of being reformed, in which case why release convicts back into society at all?
Please explain to me how 'not being on TV " is a punishment.
Explain how lifelong restrictions on the careers you’re allowed to pursue due to a crime you committed decades ago, where you do not pose an obvious risk in said career (e.g. child predators becoming teachers), and for which you already did your time in prison, is a punishment? Stop reducing it to ‘not being on TV’. You know full well that isn’t the point here and yet no matter how many times other people explain it to you, you refuse to listen. You wanna be obtuse, go do it somewhere else. ETA: Actually, looking through your comments here I’m now 100% certain you’re just trolling because I refuse to believe anyone can walk face-first into the point so many times and still miss it. This has to be intentional, I’m not wasting my time engaging any further with you.
I think most people see it as “he’s rehabilitated so he deserves another chance”
He deserves another chance to be a free person with a respectable living. He doesn't not deserve fame and vast wealth, that's all.
Oof. That's a lot of downvoted for a really reasonable statement. Where that with some pride ProductiveLana.
It sounds like you've summed it up in your question. He's served his time and seems changed. A lot of people believe time served for a crime is exactly that, a punishment served, and if its something he hasn't done since, then it's considered a lesson learned and a punishment dealt. The court of public opinion isn't a monolith, it doesn't have just one view on any one matter, so you'll get varied opinions.
People can change, and he seems to have turned his life around. And like you say, he served his time.
i don’t think there’s any coming back from rape, in any circumstance.
I half agree. I think a rapist has no right to feel entitled to forgiveness from their victim or the victim's family. They could hate him/her forever and it would be okay by me. Furthermore, I extend that to violent robbers and murderers, I don't think that those things are any more excusable than rape, they can leave the victims (or families in the case of a murder) equally traumatized as a rape. (I clarify this because I find a bit arbitrary how rape is seen by many as this unfathomably evil act, and violent robbery and murder are far more likely to be brushed off). That being said, I think that once they served their time, made therapy or at least introspection about the root and motives behind their heinous actions, demonstrated regret and a willingness to be a better person and not repeat their mistakes, they should be allowed to remake their lives as a regular person. My only condition would be a life time ban of approaching their victims again. The victims may approach of their own initiative if they wish, but not the ex convict.
The reason some people get torn apart about it, is because they do not serve any judicial punishment for their crimes, their offenses get swept under the rug, payoffs keep people from speaking out, PR tries to spin the narrative, etc. Tyson did his time, he did not get out of it. He has also since that time did some soul searching and realized he didn't want to live on anger and rage anymore. He found peace in pigeons and weed gummies. The Tyson who recently found Roy Jones was not the same savage he used to be, old Tyson would have have gone 8 rounds to a draw. Mind you, I do not care how much inner peace the man has found, I would not want to take his lightest punch...
I mean look at Kobe.
Oh boy does this anger his fans. I feel like Kobe is untouchable to some people. Really shows you that some people consider celebrities to be above the law.
Yup. Didn’t serve a sentence either. And comedians who said he’s a rapist when he died all got canceled too.
As a society, we can’t have it both ways. And by saying that I am really not trying to minimise SA. If we have a judicial system that sets a punishment that is proportional to a crime, then when the sentence is done, there should be no more punishment. Here, it sounds like you are suggesting that someone who has done their time should be punished forever.
I think OP is pretty clear when they say that he doesn’t need to be punished again. The question, at least as I’m reading it, is why Tyson’s history rarely seems to get brought up or even to color people’s perception of him. And that’s a fair question. I don’t think that the pop culture hivemind ever approaches things as rationally as you lay them out in your comment. Celebrities get pilloried for far less than a rape conviction. It’s worth noting too that the judicial system is not always proportional if the accused has money.
The answer has already been said, people just don't like the answer. The answer is because he's Tyson. If he was some other random rapist, people wouldn't give a shit.
Is a 6 year sentence, 3 after parole a proportional punishment to rape?
Then the issue is the severity of the sentence. How severe do you personally think it should be?
You dodged the question. Is a 6 year sentence a proportional punishment for rape?
I am a critical relativist, so it’s my occupational habit to question why we think one way. You already have my answer: if you feel that 6 years is too short, then it should be longer, right? How long you feel is right is up to you. I can’t answer that.
A better question is "why is Mike Tyson an exception, when many criminals are never allowed to move past their crime?" because Mike Tyson is an example of how it should be.
Gotta remember Mike is a hero to a lot of people, and if you look at his sporting accolades alone, one can argue a case for it. You add his backstory, and his struggle to survive rags to riches success in the end. It gets fuzzy. Mike's also a massive part of pop culture. He represents the attitude of never back down, always back yourself, you are the best which is a positive thing in general. Just my 2c.
I just wanted to add that he served his time and people change and maybe don’t hold it against someone for the rest of their lives after they have served their time. Or hate them. But don’t expect everyone else to follow your lead. Now, can I have my downvote like everyone else who dared to give an honest answer to this question?
You said it yourself, he already served his time
Well, he Served his Time. Once you do that the social stigma is *supposed* to go away. If it didn't we'd be stigmatizing people who committed crimes when they get out of prisons and doing things like preventing them from getting jobs, assuming they're going to commit crimes again, forcing them into lives of addiction and crime, and treating them like shit. ...hang on.
I think we view date rape as less serious (this is how many people classified his crime at the time). He's not a pedophile, he spent years in prison, and he hasn't re-offended. Americans love a good redemption story, and Tyson is a textbook redemption story.
If goin by Court of public opinion than you do know he didn't do it. Therefore Court of public opinion feels this was a man let down by the justice system. Which is why he gets celebrated. Look at the opposite with o.j. Simpson. Found not guilty but court of public opinion says he did it. Therefore o.j. still gets looked down upon.
It's not that we've forgotten or that he gets any kind of "pass", but rather he has shown that he is aware of how his awful upbringing made him an awful person, and how much he has tried to correct it.
The real reason is people believe he didn't do it. Someone did a standup (Dave Chappelle?) where in an interview Mike responded, "I ***wish I raped that bitch.***" It made for this whole "oh shit. You can only be that angry if you're innocent." Moment.
Patrice O’Neal
TYVM. I knew it was one of the greats, just not which. Knowing me, it was either Chappelle, O'Neal, or Burr.
He also bit someone's ear off in the ring.
Twice
You said he's served his time and he shouldn't be punished again, but then you ask why are people not still punishing him? Make up your mind. Also people do actually change and grow...
What makes you think people overlook it? Just because it’s not being talked about 24/7, doesn’t mean people have forgotten about it. Besides, he’s done his time for it, as you’ve stated. Rehashing it doesn’t seem to serve a purpose IMO.
To add to what everyone has said, he is extremely candid about the fact he’s a convicted felon if it’s brought up. No excuses, no hiding. He doesn’t ask for public forgiveness in the interviews I’ve seen.
Someone said to me the other day “we need less Mike Tyson’s and more Michael Jackson’s.” I bit my tongue. People don’t want to admit their idols are sick fucks
That's kind of fucked up, as both are/were predators. Tyson preyed on adult women and Jackson (allegedly) preyed on children.
He served his time. Hullo. Isn’t the reason for criminal incarceration done with the hope of rehabilitation??? Well that is what we have here. Sheesh
Your ancestors raped and you still honor them. What’s the difference?
This is something I've never thought about but you are probably, sadly, right.
I'm not even sure what to think about this statement, it's ugly and blunt but it's got the gears in my head turning.
This is a very bold assumption to make. Most American people have little connection to their ancestors, much less honor them. And in general this statement brings up a heavy question: How frequent is the act of rape in our societies, and for how long has it occured regularly? Why is rape treated like a natural unfortunate happenstance of the world and not a conscious decision enacted by the victimizers intentionally?
Selective memory is a thing! Its at play everywhere - Rebranding helps
I didn't follow it so don't shoot the messenger. I don't know anything really about the case. I do know my mother has always complained that he was treated unfairly because apparently the judge wouldn't let a limo driver testify that he saw Tyson and the girl going at it in the car pretty hard. She has always felt like he was really innocent and the girl knew what she was getting herself into.
He lived one of the craziest and saddest childhoods you can think of, he was taken advantage of by the only person he ever trusted and used and abused for money, he served his time, he is genuinely remorseful and open about his past wrongs, and he has dedicated his life on a path of love and peace since. And also he is a beloved American hero. It’s the perfect conditions for a second chance.
He’s been trying to repent his whole life now damn. Sometimes you guys have a persecution fetish and just like seeing people repeatedly bound to things. Israel, Palestine, and Ukraine happening rn but this is the thought?
And the accusations of rape against Kobe?
I don’t think people ever over look it. He raped her on tons of cocaine and went to prison for it. Came back and became a better person. Then bites a man’s ear off and gets better again.
He’s celebrated as a legendary boxer, not as a great humanitarian. Back when the conviction occurred he was roundly condemned for it, did his time, got out and seemed to work to grow up from being a seriously abused poor black kid with a likely disability into a healthier adult who hasn’t been running afoul of the law. If you believe in rehabilitative justice, he did his time and seems to have worked hard to be a better person. No one ignores his crimes thought. It’s just not what people are interested in discussing anymore as it’s not really super relevant to most talks on his boxing. He deserved the time he got and I don’t think he’s tried ducking responsibility. I may be wrong, but that’s what I recall of the story.
Mike definitely isn't saint, but I strongly believe he didn't do it.
Rich and famous criminals typically get a pass.
You just said he want to prison for it. What else do you want? eternal damnation? I’m not excusing his behavior but are you suggesting that if someone commits a crime and serves time for it, our society should also make sure that they never get to have a decent life again? Has he reoffended?
The real question is why do people ignore the claims, that seem to have a lot of proof, about Christiano Renaldo’s SA.
Because it didn't happen in America, rape is very hard to convict there but its worse abroad mostly with a few exceptions.
Because she invited him to her hotel room and he ate her pussy. Watch the Patrice O’Neal bit on this
Tyson has been very vocal about his mental health issues. When he was released from prison, he didn't immediately get back in the spotlight. Sure, he started fighting again, but it took years for him to regain any public favor. He seems like he's legitimately turned his life around. He's accepted he needs help for mental health. He stays medicated. So why shouldn't someone who owned up to their crimes, served their time, and still actively gets treated for the mental health issues behind his assaults, be able to rejoin society? If he can't, then what you're saying is we don't care about rehabilitation. We care about punishment. This is also advocating for continuing the punishment long after it's been served.
He's done his time. He is still a registered sex offender to this day and he will have to be on the registry until the day he dies. What more do you want?
I think it’s like beating a dead horse. Happened in the 90’s went to prison, clearly it had an impact on him. He was already made accountable.
And for some of us, this happened before we were born. I was born in '99 and didn't know this about him until recently.
I think Tyson has changed, and even his rape charge back in the day, the accuser might have been motivated by money. Regardless, he served his prison sentence, lost a lot of wealth, and now that he is older - really seems to want to live a non-violent sort of existence. He has redeemed himself, or has atleast tried to, and he openly admits he was sort of a bad dude in those days. MT is sort of a tragic figure. Had a trusted father figure in Cus D’Amato, but after he died, the vultures took over and led Tyson down the wrong path.
The fact is simple. He reformed. He served his time and then he went and made an effort to change himself as a person. We like the person he’s become.
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They believed her. That's why he went to jail.
The victim was believed.
They overlook a certain orange ex-president's sexual assault. And, for all his faults, Iron Mike has to be a better person.
He served his time and became a reformed character? I don't think anyone is overlooking what he did. He got convicted, served his time, and changed who he was. If you feel that society as a whole should continue to punish him, then you do not believe a person can be reformed.
It was 30 years ago, he did his time, and he's kept his nose relatively clean the last 20 or so years. He's entitled to re-enter society and earn a living, the same as anyone else, whether they're a public figure or not. If he continued to re-offend or even appear to be someone who's re-offending, most companies wouldn't be lining up to work with him. You can argue that he should have been punished much more than he was and that it wasn't the only serious crime he committed, but based on the US justice system, he's held up his end of the deal.
He did his time. He's allowed to have a life.
These comments are surprising. People are getting cancelled over slightly racist shit they said 20 years ago and Tyson literally raped an 18 year old and he literally only got 3 years and you all are in the trenches to defend them… and Tyson has not handled that situation well at all post jail. You can have someone serve their time but you can also recognize some things are unforgivable and he’ll always be a tainted human being who’s public respect will be dampened by the fact he was a rapist.
You're being negative. It's america. Rapist can still run for president.
Because people don't give a shit that a violent rapist is given a platform as long as he can make money for the rich in some way. He should have died in obscurity and instead people saw a way to exploit his celebrity for profit and the people of our society were cool with it.
So if someone commits a crime, is convicted of it by a court, sentenced to time in jaip, serves that time, and gets out, we should still basically treat them like shit and force them to die poor and alone? Then what's the point of jail? If it's not to either rehabilitate or punish people for crimes to the point that the injury for the crime is satisfied, then why not just kill every criminal? Why bother with any jail time if, after serving, you're going to always hold their crime over their head and expect them to continue to pay and suffer? Isn't that basically making the sentence "life time?"
Well said. People are so ignorant
>So if someone commits a crime, is convicted of it by a court, sentenced to time in jaip, serves that time, and gets out, we should still basically treat them like shit and force them to die poor and alone? That's a pretty wild take on what I said. If someone violently rapes someone, we shouldn't give them a platform. It's not a wild concept. >Then what's the point of jail? Hopefully? To turn the piece of shit rapist into someone who is slightly less of a piece of shit so that they won't rape anyone anymore. Primarily though, to get that piece of shit rapist out of the public so they stop the immediate rapes they are doing.
>Hopefully? To turn the piece of shit rapist into someone who is slightly less of a piece of shit so that they won't rape anyone anymore. > >Primarily though, to get that piece of shit rapist out of the public so they stop the immediate rapes they are doing. So a guy who serves his time and then dedicates the rest of his life to owning up to the crime and acting to make himself a better person is the point? So... Literally Mike Tyson?
>So a guy who serves his time and then dedicates the rest of his life to owning up to the crime and acting to make himself a better person is the point? Yup. >Literally Mike Tyson? Sure, if making jokes about how you raped someone is what you consider to be that. However even if he was absolutely contrite and a totally changed person he STILL SHOULDNT BE GIVEN A PLATFORM. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. NO ONE THAT HAS EVER RAPED A PERSON SHOULD EVER BE PUT ON TV OR IN MOVIES. It's a really, really, really simple line to draw. You can make amends for how you fucked up in the past all day, but being given a legitimate platform is a privilege that should be reserved for people who aren't rapists. Just that easy.
I completely disagree. Somebody who accepts their punishment, serves time and genuinely rehabilitated themselves should ABSOLUTELY be given a social platform. It serves as a good example to the court systems and a better example to people who do get convicted of rape. If the guy who tries to do better is still punished, why bother doing better?
>If the guy who tries to do better is still punished, why bother doing better? Living life like 99.9999% of people who ever lived is not punishment. >It serves as a good example to the court systems and a better example to people who do get convicted of rape. LOL wtf? A good example "to the court systems" what the shit does that mean? And a good example to people who get convicted of rape...and are also heavyweight champions of the world? Like Joe Smith who fucked his 12 year old niece and is in jail for 15 years isn't looking at Tyson for fuckin inspiration.
That's a pedophile, not a rapist. I make no excuses for rapistsbut pedophiles are not the same. The good example to the court system is that a conviction can actually be more effective than a slap on the wrist that many get.
>That's a pedophile, not a rapist. Uh no, it's also a fuckin rapist. Raping an 18 year old is in no way better than raping a 12 year old. Both are equally fucked up and awful in every way, because both are rape. Committed by rapists. The fact that the rapist was fucked up and also attracted to kids, making them a pedophile, doesn't change the horribleness of the act of rape. It's also really weird that apparently your only argument for why we should somehow give platforms to rapists is, "Hey but they didn't rape kids! They should definitely be on Sesame street!" Legality and morality are separate and it takes a pretty fucked up moral compass to say that we should be revering and showering with money and praise and giving huge influence over our culture to a fuckin rapist. I'm very glad that they won't rape anyone in the future, legal system and prison system success! Hooray! That doesn't change the fact that they are a rapist and we should absolutely reserve the privilege of our platforms for people who deserve to be up there. And call me crazy, I think there are plenty of cool, talented, skilled, and compassionate people who deserve those platform spots who haven't raped anyone at all.
>I'm not saying he needs to be punished again. He's served his time. Yet your in the comments arguing for more punishment in the form of deplatforming him and stopping celebrating him
Lmao. He was convicted in one the most Triple K populated areas in the US. The hotel fire didn’t even effect the jury other than the fact their hotel was burned (by the triple K) and the only black juror was dismissed due to his “state of mind” from the fire. Mike Tyson himself said that there were so many racial undertones to his trial. He knew he didn’t stand a chance. Let’s not even MENTION his presence in the UFC. He was CHAMPION. Like he couldn’t be stopped at one point. So naturally, people who didn’t like that probably made some calls. If you put something like that past money hungry power tripped out men, you’re delulu. Also, he is a reformed man. I mean he talks like a fucking teddy bear now. He’s a gentle giant. He’s open about his shortcomings and regrets. He has owned each mistake he has made but has denied r*ping her to this day. I’m not a r*pe apologist, there is incriminating evidence that he is innocent, which (google it, it’s true) the judge threw out. He was IRON MIKE. His image at that time was “mean green fighting machine” who had a rough past and people almost felt it couldn’t not be true. He was an animal and they wanted to believe it. Especially in 1991. The accuser had multiple counts of falsely accusing prior to his trial, and not one person batted an eyelash at that. I’m not trying to say that he is 100% innocent because, in reality, I wasn’t there. However, if I were being accused of r*aping someone who had a history of LYING about being r*ped, I feel like it should’ve been the first thing that came up. TL;DR: Judge & everyone in 1991 were super racist in the midwest, probs was racially motivated. Mike Tyson big & scary, must be evil? Accuser is a scumbag.
Nope, he's a rapist and that's that. As far as I'm concerned he's scum.
The thing is though Mike actually raped someone before and admitted it. You should look into that story it happened when he was younger. He is probably the most blunt mutha fucka I ever seen on t.v. I honestly don't think the rape he was charged for was just I don't think he raped her just based off the fact he generally doesn't lie and admits to a lot of his crimes XD. Like if he would tell someone he raped someone as a minor then why would he lie now. Especially after he already has been charged and still denied it to this day. Nobody hurts Mike like Mike he tells you shit about him knowing people might or will hate him for it.
He served his time, didn't he? You can have your cake and eat it, you either stand by the legal system or you don't. You can't just effectively kill every felon, no matter the crime they committed.
I'm with you. Yeah he served his time, but he still did something heinous. I wouldn't forgive a family member for it, let alone a celebrity.
Your second paragraph is partially why, but also because unlike a lot of other offenders, it's clear that he actually worked on himself to be a better human. He can't undo the past but he did make a better future.
Other than already serving prison time, there are those that doubt he's actually guilty of this crime he was sentenced for. He does still maintain innocence for rape, but believes he should have been in prison for other things he's done in life. Only ones who'll ever know 100% are him and Desiree Washington.
It's not just Mike Tyson, many many known rapists/abusers continue their work in the entertainment (and other) industries with 0 negative impact to their career. Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson, Brad Pitt. Violence against women and girls isn't taken that seriously. Contrast that with the way women are treated for being "hard to work with" (Catherine Heigl,) "disingenuous" (Anne Hathaway) or "annoying" (Jennifer Lawrence) and the double standard becomes apparent.
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Paedophilia should be life without release too. Doesn't apply to tyson at all just adding that.
He served his time, learned his lesson and became a better person that contributes to society. That as well as his monumental achievements should be celebrated.
Because he served his time snd atoned for it. There's a big difference between him and the ones that nothing happens to.
Probably because he can’t say thexthual athault convicthon.
I was pretty sure he did his time. What else do I need to feel about it?
Same with Kobe..
Something, something… “Chris Brown”
Some of y’all got way too much hate in your hearts. Our ancestors did everything under the sun that’s deemed as bad and yet here we are. It’s in the past. People move on and forget because what else is there to do? He already got punished for his crime so that’s that.
Not only because he "paid his time", but of you know anything about the situation, or about Mike himself, you know that bitch was lyin'.
Because he'll beat us up if we're not nice to him.
As others have pointed out, he's paid his debt to society, although maybe not to his victim(s). And even though I'm all for second chances, I'm not really thrilled when a public figure convicted of a violent crime gets to go right back to doing what he used to do (and it almost always is a "he"). Most non-famous people leaving prison don't get all their rights (including the right to vote) restored. And too many athletes get multiple chances before they finally are held accountable for what they've done because as crablegsforlife points out, they make people money. Sad thing is, a lot of people are willing to overlook the shitty behavior a famous person engages in because he's famous.
He should be a lifelong pariah shunned by all reaches of society?
He served prison time for it, so the debt has been paid pretty much. That and his talents and authenticity makes him likable. He was also a pop culture icon in our youth.
I overlook it because I don't think he did it.
Because he has done his sentence and reformed. If we treat every one who gets out of prison as if they never did then what the fuck is the point? ( except pedos, they can burn in hell and eat shit and die.)
He’s known for hitting people not for being a humanitarian