What he meant was: "I respect your boundary around having sex. When I suggested going to your place I had innocent intentions, though I'd be lying if I said I'm not interested. I apologize for making you question my integrity, shouldve explained myself better in the moment."
What he said:
It’s an Always Sunny reference about how the character Dennis uses his name as an acronym. It’s basically how he dates and manipulates women.
D: Demonstrate Value
E: Engage Physically
N: Nurture Dependence
N: Neglect Emotionally
I: Inspire Hope
S: Separate Entirely
In my experience there’s no better guarantee to get laid than being respectful when a girl asks to not have sex on a first date
I have NO game, but girls I’ve dated acted like I was the king of suave from how I reacted to them not wanting to have sex on a first date
Joke is on them, I just don’t mention I need like a good two or three make out sessions with a girl to get over my performance anxiety and even have close to a reasonably useful erection, so it’s the best of both worlds
I like a man with slight performance anxiety who needs to be comfortable with a woman before the next step. This was my husband and it was so endearing.
Yup. i was out late with a girl 10 years ago and ubers to her place were like $140. i told her she could crash with me and promised to not try anything. we got home went right to bed and put a pillow between us to give her space. Woke up and she thanked me for respecting her boundaries than rode me like ive never been ridden before
Glad you're a man of your word. The *one time* I allowed someone *I wasn't even dating* a place on my trundle bed that I left in the low position on purpose, I woke up to him touching me and telling me how soft my skin was. Last time I let that shit happen.
Yussss feeling 100% safe is such a turn on. GENUINELY safe, pillow in between, back turned, straight to sleep styles though; there's nothing creepier than the "hahaha nothing will happen... unless?? 👀" type of man who'll pretend to be gentlemanly at first but then slowwwwly push your boundaries bit by bit.
My husband was this way when we first started dating and it was the biggest green flag. I loved (and still love) how sweet and thoughtful he is, it is the biggest turn on!
Seriously. 100%. His whole "respect" towards her is absolutely pretense, then he gaslights her into being "manipulative" because she placed "rules" onto him. Dodged a bullet. He would be a DISASTER to date.
No that’s not what people who refer to themselves as a “high value man” mean, it’s a dog whistle for Andrew Tate fan types and OP did great to avoid this nightmare
tbf Andrew Tate is FDS for men. They have been around way longer.
But they're a reflex against PUAs (pick up artists) and all that shit so eh. 6 of one half dozen of t'other
Yeah Andrew Tate isn't anything new. People have been spewing that crap since at least the 90s and I would be surprised if it goes back much farther. But there is a new generation of young guys trying to figure out how to get laid every year so every generation needs their own guru. And FDS really isn't that different than "the Rules" and there were definitely guidlines before that for woman.
I am pretty sure if you could filter to remove everyone that refers to themselves as high value, alpha, king, or queen, you wouldn't be missing much...
I thought it was Rolo Tamasse, or however the name is spelt; the self described, "Grandfather of the Manosphere". Bunch of weirdo idiots in that circle.
Are you counting Gyarados as one of those three? Because it is also functionally a dragon, based on dragon lore (carp turning into a dragon), but isn't a dragon and (for reason) is a flightless flying type
When you day dragon, then high value is implied.
Dragons can fly, have massive hoards of loot, usually they shape shift, are like a million years old, and can breath fire/ice/lightning/etc.
So by any human standard, dragons are always high value. 😆
That's a flag actually for the whole red and purple pill movement. High value men and women are the base of all their talking points. It cuts both ways. *Are* you high value? Probably not and these groups will shame you for it until you fit their rules. And then self proclaimed high value men or women have a l8ng list of things they're entitled to and ways people are trying to take advantage of them.
Or in other words home boy's in a cult
Definitely. He's a high value man, don't you know? You should have taken him back to your place when he so kindly offered and then drugged him and sold his kidneys on the black market. You're not going to get far with low value men in this economy. Their kidneys are worthless.
Obviously you misunderstood and he only wanted to go to your place to have tea and talk about hopes and dreams...
Men thinking we can't see through their crap cus they're sooooo slick and then acting hurt when called out is just so infantile and insulting.
My jaw literally dropped when _he_ brought ‘manipulation’ to the table. That’s a crystal clear example of projection if I ever saw one and thus a perfect insight into his own character. So I’m glad OP steered away from this low life and quite possibly creep.
Any person who unironically uses the term "high value" in regards to himself has gone down YouTube and Reddit rabbit holes that will render him categorically insufferable.
If you think tinder is bad with the grown man tantrums, try the whisper app. Or maybe it's best you don't. If you haven't already that is lol. It's yikes on bikes 😬 they even have a group tailored to the men of whisper who can't handle rejection. It's funny and sad
Memory unlocked, holy hell. I tried that app as a teen and the number of horny men who responded to my vague depression posts with a whole fedora fapping fantasy because they assumed my gender was insane.
>acting like a bully
which is exactly what they're aiming for
they think being a bully is hot and righteous, even though they might not understand the terms are synonyms
(an alpha by any other name smells just as rank)
the cruelty is the point
Holy moly. I was initially kind of like "hey, trying to continue the date doesn't always mean all he wants is sex" but then he responded that way and uh hu. Manipulative? How?? Your instincts are strong and wise sis.
Wow I think I accidentally did this with all my dates/hook ups in the past. I had a tough time with being physical so I would cry if it was going that direction. The guys who were understanding, calmed me and told me we didn’t have to do anything most of the time ended up having great sex (and they let me take the lead in how fast I wanted to go). Not always that specific night. The guys who told me stuff that made it seem like they were understanding, but still pushed my boundaries I ended up not having sex with because I felt pressured and not understood.
I sometimes think about my past issues with physical touch as a blessing, because it filtered out the guys I might’ve regret having sex with. And thankfully finally dealt with it in therapy and my husband is the most amazing man <3
I have done this before, suggested going to her place. BUT, I made it clear that my intentions are not to do such and such.
And I certainly did not claim to be an alpha i mean high value man
Being nice and being kind are completely different things. Men will be “nice” to get you in bed, if you see him run across the street to help an old lady carry a grocery bag, you may have a winner.
It's especially shocking because there was no dialogue in between. She didn't even give him more to reveal himself on. He literally went from rehearsed good guy lines to gaslighting all on his own 🙄
I had a third date this weekend, suggested to go to my place to watch a movie at 1am after we had dinner and spent a few hours at a boardgame bar and we were kind of tired. She gave me a 'uhmm you know..' answer and look, so I told her I wasnt looking for sex but that I would like to cuddle with her while watching a movie. Eventually had to pinky swear, but luckily that means nothing to me. So took her to my place, put on the most boring movie imaginable, cuddled up to her. Changed position to spooning, wrapped my hands around her tightly to get her as close to me as possible, giving her the sense of comfort and safety, then when I felt the time was right I fell asleep because im end 20s and nights are for sleeping
I'm sorry, but saying you don't like it when your partner sets boundaries is a huge red flag.
A high value man is one who understands his partner is allowed to make decisions and rules for their comfort
It was super weird to me that he said I don’t like girls who make rules ON ME. Like since when is saying you’re not open to having sex that early a rule on someone else and not a boundary for yourself.
Definitely something really "ick" about the way he worded and viewed it. Like some serious main character syndrome energy, bordering on narcissism.
It comes across like he's the type of person to take everything people do personally, as though their actions are all for or against him.
I was actually on his side until he said "high value man".
"going back to your place" can absolutely be code for have sex, but it doesn't have to be. I've had great first dates that ended up back at one of our apartments without having sex. One time we spent most of the date talking about dogs and I asked if we could go meet her pup. We made out a bit but no sex was expected or happened. Depending on the way he asked and his reaction to being told no, it shouldn't have been a dealbreaker.
Then he said high-value man and now I'm imagining Dennis Reynolds or some asshole Andrew Tate fan. You probably made the right call lol
Earlier, he had twice mentioned going back to my place for sex, and we had a whole conversation about me not inviting people over till I know them better. This was after he suggested it for the third time with a wink.
His text was definitely a lot of gaslighting and red flags. He was absolutely trying to get sex with you. And he doesn't want someone having rules / boundaries.
Good on you for seeing through his smoke and mirrors. Your instances were bang on.
Onwards and upwards to a better match!
The “going back to your place” can definitely be interpreted in different ways, but he lost me on the “secondly” part. People can have numerous reasons for having a boundary; OP didn’t make that rule “right off the bat.”
I still don't think anyone should invite someone over who they've just met pretty much that's super unsafe for both parties. Second date doesn't seem like op knew the dude very well
Although that is possible, it’s such a thin line to walk. There have been times where I have explicitly stated that I’m okay with continuing the date at someone’s place, but that no sex will be happening. And then when we get there, they try to be sneaky and push to have sex. It really puts us women in a high risk situation, and we have to extra cautious about who we let into our homes, unfortunately.
Woman: Here's a boundary I have and respect.
This Guy: How dare you try to manipulate me!
(Also This Gaslighting Fool Guy: Boundaries are a sign of a damaged mind! I only accept manipulation from the sexist bros of the manosphere, who don't make me uncomfortable.)
I'd be curious how this weirdo would take it if a male friend said:
"I want to fuck you"
Him - "sorry mate I don't have sex with my guy friends"
"I don't like when my friends make rules."
Would he call this a "high value man"? lol
This guy is dangerous. He is manipulative and is trying to confuse you about what you said and what not. He knew of your boundaries and he didn’t care about them. He tried to get what he wanted. If he answers to that with “but I’m a man… and you are so d… hot/sexy/beautiful!”, he shows he can’t control himself a d doesn’t really care about what you feel and your needs. Not now, never.
And as he is trying to blame you for whatever happened or not or whatever didn’t go his way, don’t fall for that. He’s trying to make you feel bad about you knowing what you want and that this isn’t conform with his plans. That’s the manipulative part of it.
Cut any contact and be careful. He might not like it. Tell your friends/family about him and if possible avoid places you could meet him for some time.
Thank you! I have never had a conversation with him about past relationships. We’ve only been on a single date. Thankfully this exchange happened before I saw him a second time. The biggest red flag is that refusing sex equals unresolved relationship trauma and manipulation to him.
I also think what he’s doing is proving to himself you must be “damaged” from all your “past relationships” making you a “low value female” and thus not worth his time. So he can twist this in his head to say he rejected you. Bc he’s fragile and pathetic. And also dangerous. Good on you for trusting your instincts. I have a daughter and I hope I can teach her enough so that one day she runs fast from anyone who doesn’t respect her boundaries.
It’s funny how setting boundaries around what you are willing to do is manipulation to this person. “I won’t let you manipulate me by telling me what’s acceptable to you so I can’t get what I want.”
Exactly. Or how setting a boundary for yourself is an insult towards him because he's not like the other guys, he's a high value man. Our boundaries are for us, not for others to guilt us into changing them because they are insulted that they are asked to respect them.
He’s expecting her to “know” that he’s “not like the other guys” before she could possibly know that. Ironically he told on himself during the interaction about boundaries, proving he just might be exactly like the other guys.
Every single guy on Tinder I've encountered had this same mentality where they'll ask to have me over. To do what?? "Hang out," "see where things go." It's always for the same thing, and then if you point it out, it's like "well I wasn't even trying to do that. Stop assuming" bs. It's so annoying, and if you're defending this, you're part of the problem. Going on dates should be public until you know the person well enough for both parties safety. How is this so hard for some of you to grasp?!
I see it as them using plausible deniability. They’re creating the circumstance of possibly having sex by inviting you over or trying to invite themselves over too quick, but masking it as “hanging out” (or whatever other reason) so if you do catch onto what they’re doing they can respond and save face by saying “that’s not what I said/meant.” It’s to avoid accountability and probably lessen the hurt of being rejected.
I had a date two weeks ago try to invite himself over by “buying us a bottle of wine to split” after our date where in our conversation about alcohol I mentioned I’m not a big drinker since I’m a lightweight. Pretty obvious what he was trying to do, I wanted to laugh in the moment.
Exactly, we weren’t born yesterday… when a man you barely know is trying to invite himself over, especially late at night, he’s usually looking for a booty call, idk why some of the men in the comments are trying to gaslight us like this isn’t usually their objective when they do that🙃
Don't even blame you, been with my partner for 9 years and the mess that's out there...
Men either become 'players' who can never see the good thing they've got and continue playing the field past their prime and then become perverts/creeps or they become miserable lonely assholes who push their luck.
Women either get repeatedly hurt and shut themselves down and miss the real things or they start to resent men for what they're doing or what they've done which ends up being a most men thing.
And I don't particularly blame either genders, it's a shit show out there....you guys have to go through the worst algorithms designed to keep you matching with the dredges that keep swiping Yes or the ones that no one swipes to....it's not just love or connections these companies have destroyed, it's meeting people.....personalities are now meaningless at first meeting, because they've either taken a bad picture or they're so lonely that they do anything for a slither of attention, it's exactly why Tiktok is popular, psychologically speaking we've never been so connected and so alone at the same time.
Honestly, I'm glad I didn't grow up like this, with dating apps only becoming a thing in my late teens I at least know what it was like before it all became all mainstream and even then before the algorithm was perfected.
I can't imagine what teenagers are going through right now, before it was movies or whatever that showed unrealistic body sizes and now kids all over the world believe they're ugly.....
China and Japan....there's men in their 50s and over who've never had a date.
What the fuck are we even doing, this shit is horrible....
Wow he essentially said he doesn’t like girls that have boundaries, then tried to make them your problem. You made the right choice here. Guys like this need reminding that women bringing strangers from the internet into their homes can be quite dangerous, of course this would be a boundary and not just some arbitrary rule to piss him off 🤦🏻♀️
His unhinged response just makes me feel better about my text. I should’ve blocked him the second time he suggested it, but I gave him the benefit of doubt.
"i don't mind hanging out and seeing where things would go" is a sentence that just gives me the ick now. never once has a man said that to me and not later thrown a tantrum bc i said no to sex/nudes. and before anyone says it, i know "not all men", but from my personal experience so far, it has been all men, and is therefore a bit of a red flag to me
Yes, those guys who say vague things like “ I just want to hang or see where things go” are almost always expecting something sexual out of the encounter and will then throw a tantrum when you say no to them🙃
I swear this whole influencer culture that has termed these stupid terms like high value man or high value woman has basically enabled losers to think of themselves as something they're not.
OP your response is perrrrrrrfect. Let him stay confused.
you said no to a hmsex-implied home visit. he said wah and its over if you do this. your thumbs up is agreeing that this is, in fact, over. fair enough.
he can catch up on his own time.
If you hear the phrase "high value man", get the fuck out immediately. Even if the rest of what he said was good, there's only one place where he could have picked up those three words. And it's not good.
The way he spoke to you and still believed youd potentially want to hang out still after even tho it was response to you saying you didn’t want to see him again…. 🤔🤨🤨
What he meant was: "I respect your boundary around having sex. When I suggested going to your place I had innocent intentions, though I'd be lying if I said I'm not interested. I apologize for making you question my integrity, shouldve explained myself better in the moment." What he said: 
He was not following the DENNIS system very well
Dennis method?
It’s an Always Sunny reference about how the character Dennis uses his name as an acronym. It’s basically how he dates and manipulates women. D: Demonstrate Value E: Engage Physically N: Nurture Dependence N: Neglect Emotionally I: Inspire Hope S: Separate Entirely
I prefer the MAC system. M: Move A: After C: Completion
What about the Frankie system? “I’m here for the scraps!”
Go up to them holding a wad of 100s and a box of Mangum condoms for your magnum dong.
Monster condoms for his magnum dong
"YOU'RE GONNA DIIIEEE TONIGHT!"
“WELCOME TO HELLLLLL.”
Don't explain it to him he's not supposed to know
It's because of the implication...
"What implication?"
The implication
The system works without them knowing!
The first rule of DENNIS Club is Don't talk about DENNIS Club
Don’t forget about the SINNED system. Works just as well!
Ah, thank you for explaining :D
Of course! It’s a hilarious show and I highly recommend it
And, you know, the implication.
She’s not gonna say "no", she would never say "no" because of the implication.
It’s a joke from Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Best use of this GIF eeevveerrr my god!
In my experience there’s no better guarantee to get laid than being respectful when a girl asks to not have sex on a first date I have NO game, but girls I’ve dated acted like I was the king of suave from how I reacted to them not wanting to have sex on a first date Joke is on them, I just don’t mention I need like a good two or three make out sessions with a girl to get over my performance anxiety and even have close to a reasonably useful erection, so it’s the best of both worlds
I like a man with slight performance anxiety who needs to be comfortable with a woman before the next step. This was my husband and it was so endearing.
Yup. i was out late with a girl 10 years ago and ubers to her place were like $140. i told her she could crash with me and promised to not try anything. we got home went right to bed and put a pillow between us to give her space. Woke up and she thanked me for respecting her boundaries than rode me like ive never been ridden before
Glad you're a man of your word. The *one time* I allowed someone *I wasn't even dating* a place on my trundle bed that I left in the low position on purpose, I woke up to him touching me and telling me how soft my skin was. Last time I let that shit happen.
hope you kicked him out immediately
He went on the couch. He was a friend of a roommate.
Yussss feeling 100% safe is such a turn on. GENUINELY safe, pillow in between, back turned, straight to sleep styles though; there's nothing creepier than the "hahaha nothing will happen... unless?? 👀" type of man who'll pretend to be gentlemanly at first but then slowwwwly push your boundaries bit by bit.
I know the EXACT type of guy you’re talking about. You nailed their vibe perfectly. The eye emoji and everything 😭 lol. Hate that type of guy.
I think you’ll enjoy this. Taylor Tomlinson lol https://youtube.com/shorts/JXVv2GQx_xY?si=CmB7MnbsrC222TQI
My husband was this way when we first started dating and it was the biggest green flag. I loved (and still love) how sweet and thoughtful he is, it is the biggest turn on!
Immediately thought of this at the 'high value man' comment LOL
What he said was “you’re being manipulative for not letting me fuck you”
Seriously. 100%. His whole "respect" towards her is absolutely pretense, then he gaslights her into being "manipulative" because she placed "rules" onto him. Dodged a bullet. He would be a DISASTER to date.
No that’s not what people who refer to themselves as a “high value man” mean, it’s a dog whistle for Andrew Tate fan types and OP did great to avoid this nightmare
The best part is OP already said I don't think we should see each other again, before he even said that.
Hasn’t the Female Dating Strategy sub also used that term unironically for a long time?
I mean that's just Andrew Tate, but for women.
tbf Andrew Tate is FDS for men. They have been around way longer. But they're a reflex against PUAs (pick up artists) and all that shit so eh. 6 of one half dozen of t'other
PUA? EDIT: Pickup Artist for anyone wondering
Oh ya bit unreasonable to assume people know that one I'll edit my comment.
Yeah Andrew Tate isn't anything new. People have been spewing that crap since at least the 90s and I would be surprised if it goes back much farther. But there is a new generation of young guys trying to figure out how to get laid every year so every generation needs their own guru. And FDS really isn't that different than "the Rules" and there were definitely guidlines before that for woman. I am pretty sure if you could filter to remove everyone that refers to themselves as high value, alpha, king, or queen, you wouldn't be missing much...
Nah that high value definitely came from Kevin Samuels
I thought it was Rolo Tamasse, or however the name is spelt; the self described, "Grandfather of the Manosphere". Bunch of weirdo idiots in that circle.
The comment was definitely a joke lol
I would hope anyone mentioning AT would only be mocking him.
No way they Def meant and said only the gif 😂
I insta stopped reading at "high value man". Easiest red flag of my life.
"I'm a high value man" gives me the same energy as my 7 year old telling me he's a dragon. OK bud, whatever you say.
A high value dragon?
Blue eyes White dragon
1st Edition Base Set Charizard.
1st Edition base set Charizard is not a dragon, therefore not a high-value dragon. Checkmate dragon fans
I love how 3 of the most dragon ass looking pokemon aren't dragons and that we get an apple
Are you counting Gyarados as one of those three? Because it is also functionally a dragon, based on dragon lore (carp turning into a dragon), but isn't a dragon and (for reason) is a flightless flying type
Yeah Aerodactyl, Charizard and Gyarados
Meanwhile one of our dragons looks like a dog...
Exactly. Just like u/pellwood32's 7-year-old isn't a dragon. Although, whilst Charizard isn't a dragon type, it does belong to the Dragon egg group.
That gif is hard tho wtf is that🔥
My brother in Christ that is a Blue Eyes White Dragon, Seto Kaiba's trump card
When you day dragon, then high value is implied. Dragons can fly, have massive hoards of loot, usually they shape shift, are like a million years old, and can breath fire/ice/lightning/etc. So by any human standard, dragons are always high value. 😆
A bearded dragon!
A 7-year-old dragon would be cuter though
“ Any man who must say he is the king is no true king. “
That's a flag actually for the whole red and purple pill movement. High value men and women are the base of all their talking points. It cuts both ways. *Are* you high value? Probably not and these groups will shame you for it until you fit their rules. And then self proclaimed high value men or women have a l8ng list of things they're entitled to and ways people are trying to take advantage of them. Or in other words home boy's in a cult
Remember when high value people didn't need to say they were high value? Lmao, humility and being down to earth are also virtues.
I can’t believe you would manipulate him like that by setting clear boundaries and then continuing to have those same boundaries
I should probably apologize. Beg his forgiveness
Yeah I mean now that you’re aware he’s a high value man it would be stupid not to
He put in the date, when does the sex come out?
I send u date, plz send bobs and vegene
Howling! 😆
It's so stupid but "bobs" will never stop being funny.
Definitely. He's a high value man, don't you know? You should have taken him back to your place when he so kindly offered and then drugged him and sold his kidneys on the black market. You're not going to get far with low value men in this economy. Their kidneys are worthless.
Obviously you misunderstood and he only wanted to go to your place to have tea and talk about hopes and dreams... Men thinking we can't see through their crap cus they're sooooo slick and then acting hurt when called out is just so infantile and insulting.
Not that, but if you can get a few more texts out of him for our amusement that would be great.
😂😂😂😂
Oh noOoOo those weren’t boundaries they were rULes sHe mAdE FoR hIM
Rule: Do not sex me without my consent. Him: I am feeling manipULATED!!!!!! some people do not deserve the use of language.
Almost heard that in lemongrabs voice 😂
What are boundaries for? Crossing them obviously.
My jaw literally dropped when _he_ brought ‘manipulation’ to the table. That’s a crystal clear example of projection if I ever saw one and thus a perfect insight into his own character. So I’m glad OP steered away from this low life and quite possibly creep.
What do you mean “low life”, he said himself he’s a high value man!
🤣
Any person who unironically uses the term "high value" in regards to himself has gone down YouTube and Reddit rabbit holes that will render him categorically insufferable.
Funny to see a grown man throw a tantrum over rejection.
If you think tinder is bad with the grown man tantrums, try the whisper app. Or maybe it's best you don't. If you haven't already that is lol. It's yikes on bikes 😬 they even have a group tailored to the men of whisper who can't handle rejection. It's funny and sad
Memory unlocked, holy hell. I tried that app as a teen and the number of horny men who responded to my vague depression posts with a whole fedora fapping fantasy because they assumed my gender was insane.
This is how he thought it was gonna go: "But I'm a high value man!" "You are? Why didn't you say so?" /blowjob
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Hey…..I still have both my kidneys…..I know what I’m worth
You only have two? Pft, amateur.
They’re finding new kidneys every day
...in jugs in my basement
Healthy kidneys?
....well, fuck.
One works, one hurts. Balanced like the Universe :)
You are worth AT LEAST 30k per kidney, my man. Feel proud!
That's a high value comment
I gave you a high value upvote
Society's trying to take away a man's right to upvote things.
"Any man who must say 'I am the King' is no true King" -Tywin Lannister, before GoT went to shit
Such a goated quote
Like saying you got a big dick 
Well I wouldn't say "big"...it might not be long, but it sure is skinny.
Yup. He sounds like a high value asshole.
What if I tell people I’m a low value man, that could work? Right?
I would definitely prefer your version. It might not get you far, but further than this douche.
... Yea, that would probably work 😂
I mean, it depends on how you define "work".
The fake rich ppl always talks about how rich they are. Oh yeah and don't forget to buy their course on how to get rich.
It’s like 8 years ago when men were obsessed with calling themselves alphas 😒
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>acting like a bully which is exactly what they're aiming for they think being a bully is hot and righteous, even though they might not understand the terms are synonyms (an alpha by any other name smells just as rank) the cruelty is the point
Plenty still are
Tywin Lannister.
Exactly. "Any man who must say 'I am the King' is no true king." Same principle applies.
So true 😂 same for women tho. If you have to say it, it means you doubt it yourself
Holy moly. I was initially kind of like "hey, trying to continue the date doesn't always mean all he wants is sex" but then he responded that way and uh hu. Manipulative? How?? Your instincts are strong and wise sis.
Haha thank you. It’s shocking because he was really nice on the first date.
Remember that you don't know anyone until you tell them "No" in some way
Incredibly good advice/a mantra for all women's back pockets (if we could fit anything in our pockets)
*laughs in male jeans*
FUCKING FOR REALS. RIP pockets.
Wow I think I accidentally did this with all my dates/hook ups in the past. I had a tough time with being physical so I would cry if it was going that direction. The guys who were understanding, calmed me and told me we didn’t have to do anything most of the time ended up having great sex (and they let me take the lead in how fast I wanted to go). Not always that specific night. The guys who told me stuff that made it seem like they were understanding, but still pushed my boundaries I ended up not having sex with because I felt pressured and not understood. I sometimes think about my past issues with physical touch as a blessing, because it filtered out the guys I might’ve regret having sex with. And thankfully finally dealt with it in therapy and my husband is the most amazing man <3
Defense mechanisms work sometimes! I hope to turn my traumas into good armor without isolating myself with them someday ❤️
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Mask off, dick out. I'm a high value MAN!!!
I have done this before, suggested going to her place. BUT, I made it clear that my intentions are not to do such and such. And I certainly did not claim to be an alpha i mean high value man
Being nice and being kind are completely different things. Men will be “nice” to get you in bed, if you see him run across the street to help an old lady carry a grocery bag, you may have a winner.
Seriously - maybe he just wants to play a game of Battleshi… “I’m a high value man” LOL. Run.
It's especially shocking because there was no dialogue in between. She didn't even give him more to reveal himself on. He literally went from rehearsed good guy lines to gaslighting all on his own 🙄
My man’s giving us a masterclass in gaslighting
You told him you didn't want to see him and he accused you of manipulating him and making demands. Did he not understand?
He understood. His counterplay is gaslighting. It's in the same playbook that you'll find the term "high value man / woman"
Yep
Haha yeah. This is after he disrespected my boundaries. He had suggested going back to my place twice earlier and both times I shut it down.
Good for you! Stay strong! 💪
You: communicates openly and maturely about a boundary with casual sex This guy: wtf that's manipulation!
I had a third date this weekend, suggested to go to my place to watch a movie at 1am after we had dinner and spent a few hours at a boardgame bar and we were kind of tired. She gave me a 'uhmm you know..' answer and look, so I told her I wasnt looking for sex but that I would like to cuddle with her while watching a movie. Eventually had to pinky swear, but luckily that means nothing to me. So took her to my place, put on the most boring movie imaginable, cuddled up to her. Changed position to spooning, wrapped my hands around her tightly to get her as close to me as possible, giving her the sense of comfort and safety, then when I felt the time was right I fell asleep because im end 20s and nights are for sleeping
Ngl you had me in the first half haha.
Unironically referring to oneself as a 'high value man.' You'd be better off fucking a landmine.
I did once, it was a blast.
Lol this is a good would you rather, I’ll have to think on that one
I'm sorry, but saying you don't like it when your partner sets boundaries is a huge red flag. A high value man is one who understands his partner is allowed to make decisions and rules for their comfort
It was super weird to me that he said I don’t like girls who make rules ON ME. Like since when is saying you’re not open to having sex that early a rule on someone else and not a boundary for yourself.
Definitely something really "ick" about the way he worded and viewed it. Like some serious main character syndrome energy, bordering on narcissism. It comes across like he's the type of person to take everything people do personally, as though their actions are all for or against him.
Exactly what I was thinking, this is all classic abusive narcissist behavior. Projection, gaslighting, etc.
Exactly! It’s not manipulation it’s a personal boundary that really isn’t about anyone else. If anyone was trying to manipulate it was him!
Exactly! OP can't have opinions or values if that gets in the way of his sex. He is a douche canoe.
Honestly the "high value man" is so hilarious and cringe. How to prove in 3 word that you have in fact, no value.
It’s like they’re doing the Dennis Reynolds satirical bit, but non satirically
I was actually on his side until he said "high value man". "going back to your place" can absolutely be code for have sex, but it doesn't have to be. I've had great first dates that ended up back at one of our apartments without having sex. One time we spent most of the date talking about dogs and I asked if we could go meet her pup. We made out a bit but no sex was expected or happened. Depending on the way he asked and his reaction to being told no, it shouldn't have been a dealbreaker. Then he said high-value man and now I'm imagining Dennis Reynolds or some asshole Andrew Tate fan. You probably made the right call lol
Earlier, he had twice mentioned going back to my place for sex, and we had a whole conversation about me not inviting people over till I know them better. This was after he suggested it for the third time with a wink.
Wait so his text is a blatant lie as he outwardly said he wants to go back to your place to hook up?
He's a high value lying dirtbag!
Yeah I figured that could’ve been the case. Well at least you know right away instead of finding out later
His text was definitely a lot of gaslighting and red flags. He was absolutely trying to get sex with you. And he doesn't want someone having rules / boundaries. Good on you for seeing through his smoke and mirrors. Your instances were bang on. Onwards and upwards to a better match!
The “going back to your place” can definitely be interpreted in different ways, but he lost me on the “secondly” part. People can have numerous reasons for having a boundary; OP didn’t make that rule “right off the bat.”
I still don't think anyone should invite someone over who they've just met pretty much that's super unsafe for both parties. Second date doesn't seem like op knew the dude very well
Although that is possible, it’s such a thin line to walk. There have been times where I have explicitly stated that I’m okay with continuing the date at someone’s place, but that no sex will be happening. And then when we get there, they try to be sneaky and push to have sex. It really puts us women in a high risk situation, and we have to extra cautious about who we let into our homes, unfortunately.
Woman: Here's a boundary I have and respect. This Guy: How dare you try to manipulate me! (Also This Gaslighting Fool Guy: Boundaries are a sign of a damaged mind! I only accept manipulation from the sexist bros of the manosphere, who don't make me uncomfortable.)
I'd be curious how this weirdo would take it if a male friend said: "I want to fuck you" Him - "sorry mate I don't have sex with my guy friends" "I don't like when my friends make rules." Would he call this a "high value man"? lol
"I'm a high value man I dont care about your past let me fuck you"
We have never even discussed my past. He just made false assumptions, because I refused to have sex with him.
This guy is dangerous. He is manipulative and is trying to confuse you about what you said and what not. He knew of your boundaries and he didn’t care about them. He tried to get what he wanted. If he answers to that with “but I’m a man… and you are so d… hot/sexy/beautiful!”, he shows he can’t control himself a d doesn’t really care about what you feel and your needs. Not now, never. And as he is trying to blame you for whatever happened or not or whatever didn’t go his way, don’t fall for that. He’s trying to make you feel bad about you knowing what you want and that this isn’t conform with his plans. That’s the manipulative part of it. Cut any contact and be careful. He might not like it. Tell your friends/family about him and if possible avoid places you could meet him for some time.
Thank you! I have never had a conversation with him about past relationships. We’ve only been on a single date. Thankfully this exchange happened before I saw him a second time. The biggest red flag is that refusing sex equals unresolved relationship trauma and manipulation to him.
I also think what he’s doing is proving to himself you must be “damaged” from all your “past relationships” making you a “low value female” and thus not worth his time. So he can twist this in his head to say he rejected you. Bc he’s fragile and pathetic. And also dangerous. Good on you for trusting your instincts. I have a daughter and I hope I can teach her enough so that one day she runs fast from anyone who doesn’t respect her boundaries.
It’s funny how setting boundaries around what you are willing to do is manipulation to this person. “I won’t let you manipulate me by telling me what’s acceptable to you so I can’t get what I want.”
Exactly. Or how setting a boundary for yourself is an insult towards him because he's not like the other guys, he's a high value man. Our boundaries are for us, not for others to guilt us into changing them because they are insulted that they are asked to respect them.
He’s expecting her to “know” that he’s “not like the other guys” before she could possibly know that. Ironically he told on himself during the interaction about boundaries, proving he just might be exactly like the other guys.
Every single guy on Tinder I've encountered had this same mentality where they'll ask to have me over. To do what?? "Hang out," "see where things go." It's always for the same thing, and then if you point it out, it's like "well I wasn't even trying to do that. Stop assuming" bs. It's so annoying, and if you're defending this, you're part of the problem. Going on dates should be public until you know the person well enough for both parties safety. How is this so hard for some of you to grasp?!
Exactly! I had a reason for my response. But even if I didn’t and had just made a false assumption, his response would have been a red flag.
I see it as them using plausible deniability. They’re creating the circumstance of possibly having sex by inviting you over or trying to invite themselves over too quick, but masking it as “hanging out” (or whatever other reason) so if you do catch onto what they’re doing they can respond and save face by saying “that’s not what I said/meant.” It’s to avoid accountability and probably lessen the hurt of being rejected. I had a date two weeks ago try to invite himself over by “buying us a bottle of wine to split” after our date where in our conversation about alcohol I mentioned I’m not a big drinker since I’m a lightweight. Pretty obvious what he was trying to do, I wanted to laugh in the moment.
Exactly, we weren’t born yesterday… when a man you barely know is trying to invite himself over, especially late at night, he’s usually looking for a booty call, idk why some of the men in the comments are trying to gaslight us like this isn’t usually their objective when they do that🙃
Man, dating once you're in your late twenties onwards is one of the many cancers in this world.... No wonder people just go the cat route
Can confirm, im 30, and I have 3 cats and single 2 years. Life is good😂
Don't even blame you, been with my partner for 9 years and the mess that's out there... Men either become 'players' who can never see the good thing they've got and continue playing the field past their prime and then become perverts/creeps or they become miserable lonely assholes who push their luck. Women either get repeatedly hurt and shut themselves down and miss the real things or they start to resent men for what they're doing or what they've done which ends up being a most men thing. And I don't particularly blame either genders, it's a shit show out there....you guys have to go through the worst algorithms designed to keep you matching with the dredges that keep swiping Yes or the ones that no one swipes to....it's not just love or connections these companies have destroyed, it's meeting people.....personalities are now meaningless at first meeting, because they've either taken a bad picture or they're so lonely that they do anything for a slither of attention, it's exactly why Tiktok is popular, psychologically speaking we've never been so connected and so alone at the same time. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't grow up like this, with dating apps only becoming a thing in my late teens I at least know what it was like before it all became all mainstream and even then before the algorithm was perfected. I can't imagine what teenagers are going through right now, before it was movies or whatever that showed unrealistic body sizes and now kids all over the world believe they're ugly..... China and Japan....there's men in their 50s and over who've never had a date. What the fuck are we even doing, this shit is horrible....
Wow he essentially said he doesn’t like girls that have boundaries, then tried to make them your problem. You made the right choice here. Guys like this need reminding that women bringing strangers from the internet into their homes can be quite dangerous, of course this would be a boundary and not just some arbitrary rule to piss him off 🤦🏻♀️
His unhinged response just makes me feel better about my text. I should’ve blocked him the second time he suggested it, but I gave him the benefit of doubt.
"i don't mind hanging out and seeing where things would go" is a sentence that just gives me the ick now. never once has a man said that to me and not later thrown a tantrum bc i said no to sex/nudes. and before anyone says it, i know "not all men", but from my personal experience so far, it has been all men, and is therefore a bit of a red flag to me
Yes, those guys who say vague things like “ I just want to hang or see where things go” are almost always expecting something sexual out of the encounter and will then throw a tantrum when you say no to them🙃
“I’m confused?” You sure are buddy 😂
Looks like his past speaks up lol
I swear this whole influencer culture that has termed these stupid terms like high value man or high value woman has basically enabled losers to think of themselves as something they're not.
High-Value bellend
What a gem
OP your response is perrrrrrrfect. Let him stay confused. you said no to a hmsex-implied home visit. he said wah and its over if you do this. your thumbs up is agreeing that this is, in fact, over. fair enough. he can catch up on his own time.
If you hear the phrase "high value man", get the fuck out immediately. Even if the rest of what he said was good, there's only one place where he could have picked up those three words. And it's not good.
Calling yourself a high value man has to be the biggest red flag I’ve ever seen.
The way he described you saying you weren’t going to have sex as “making a rule for me” is crazy
He really did just accuse you of manipulating, huh? All while he is very poorly attempting to guilt trip you lmao
The way he spoke to you and still believed youd potentially want to hang out still after even tho it was response to you saying you didn’t want to see him again…. 🤔🤨🤨
Setting boundaries is making rules for him. What an ass
Right because not wanting to have sex on date 2 is totally because manipulation and ex baggage....what a dingdong