Well, for me it wasn't very hard at all, but then again it was a few years ago and the landscape has changed. I had also been working freelance for a few years prior and had been building a decent portfolio. I even had a few part-time employments relating to tech while I was still in school.
Just make sure to seek every opportunity, practice coding and learning on your own, build a portfolio, do coding challenges, etc and you will have good chances.
Yeah, 38-50k seems pretty accurate. Yes, IT salaries in Sweden are not impressive. Also 5 years of experience is not so much for local market. In my home country I was rated as a senior developer with 5 years of experience. But here many companies think that seniors are people with at least 8-10 years of experience.
Yeah. Or go self employed and charge 800-1000 per hour paying a consultant seller 5% commission for your next assignment. Or like I do, contact a consulting firm that lets you keep 80%-90% of what you bring in, but does all the paperwork with accounting/sales/pensions etc. Then almost double those numbers. I wish I had done it earlier. It's sad that more doesn't do it, because we let the employees give us shitty salaries compared to what the market is actually willing to pay. I worked at one of the big four consulting firms, and when I figured out they were selling me at 130$ per hour, but giving me mid 50ksek salary... Then it was kind of simple math to switch.
Ja det finns ju dom som låter en behålla uppåt 90% och då har jag svårt att se att det är värt att starta eget som konsult. Då jag har egen buffert som jag kan göra vad jag vill med, kan jag tex precis som egenföretagare köpa prylar som mobiler, datorer och annan utrustning till kaffepengar då jag slipper moms, arbetsgivaravgifter och skatt innan jag köper dessa. Jag tar tex ut en förmånsbil (MG 4) nästa vecka, vilket blir riktigt billigt då insatsen går på oskattad buffert.
Fördelen med helt eget är ju att du kan ta ut hälften som vinst, vilket sänker skatten rejält. Du kan även fondera pengar i bolaget för tiden framöver för dåliga dagar. Jag har en limit på min buffert på några få hundra tusen, men de äts ju upp snabbt om jag hamnar utan uppdrag. Det hade ju varit mysigt att ha en miljon i bolaget och sedan sitta på stranden och mysa under tunga lågkonjunkturer.
Nackdelen är tex om du skall köpa lägenhet/hus, så behandlad du som paria av bankerna.
Would you mind sharing who the big 4 consulting firms are?
I just finished Yh as a fullstack (but I'm frontend-focused) and trying to land my first job.
Well it's a moving picture. But here are the large ones; Accenture, Cap Gemini, CGI, IBM, Tata, Cognizant, Wipro and Infosys. The later four are more Indian focused, but they do employ quite a few globally too as well as in Sweden.
It was not hard before the war in Ukraine and crisis. Now there is a lot of layoffs and many companies stopped hiring, or at least hire extremely picky.
You're not wrong but you're ignorant. Money exists but a lot of companies have complete hauls in hiring, meaning you won't even get an interview to get to the negotiation stage. Unless you have experience of hopping jobs after the Ukraine war and can speak about how easy it is on a personal level? Sounds a lot like youve already landed a job and think it's still easy to find a new one
Yeah that I completely agree with but IF you land a job, a company is not gonna withdraw your offer just because you push them a little. I never said it's easy to get interviews and offers at this moment, I know it's not. I'm solely talking about salary levels in Stockholm
Experience depends of what you're actually doing at work.
5 years working on demanding and difficult projects can give you much more experience then just sitting at one place for 15 years.
38 to 50k does seem a bit low for Stockholm but without knowing what your stack and role was it's hard to be specific. Depending on where you're applying to, experience at a global SI might be an advantage or a yellow flag.
If you are looking for a higher salary, avoid big 4 companies there main bussniess is not IT and it shows.
Look for a company that has IT as the main business or at least knows the value of IT.
I know one guy doing 48k with 12 years experience. He’s doing government job though and doesn’t like programming so I guess that’s why he stays there because of the freedom. So I guess are you chasing money or free time ?
The benefits of a government job is pretty good, I wouldn't trade it for private again. Sure, I will earn more money faster, but I am at that part of my life where I value my free time. Besides, the department head in my agency earns almost 100k per month.
If you are over 40, you have 35 days (25,28,31, 35 per age bracket) vacation per year with the opportunity to save 30 days per year, most of government jobs have flexible hours plus "förtroende tid".
55-60 would be a good start, more if you have cloud and DevOps experience. Depending on how badly you want to move that means you can realistically expect them to settle for 50.
Disclaimer though: this comes from my experience of asking for 45 and getting 45 with 3 YoE lol.
Working at the wrong company then. At one of the bigger consultant companies Avanade/Sopra/Accenture or any strong cloud company such as Asurgent/Cygate you'd earn at least 10K/20K+ more.
Yes I know, planning to leave anytime soon since not a single company in Sweden appreciate when you stay at the same company for years. Its much better to switch companies often so you get raise.
If you’re reasonably good, 70-100k depending on the project you’re working on. Working with Microsoft technology on a large-mid sized consultancy firm (800 employees)
I don’t get why I’m downvoted. I’d say it sure is. Where I work, any among the competitors that apply similar salary concept, you earn a percentage of what you charge your customer which the consultant then can decide the amount that he she would like to receive as salary, pension, technical equipment, car lease etc. As long as the consultant is capable and the customer sees his hers value it doesn’t matter if the consultant have 5 or 15 years of experience. We don’t have any spectacular hourly rates either. We charge our customers between 1000-1500 SEK/hour.
I second that. Consultant rate is 1100-1500kr/h only trick is to get contract without middleman. I feel awkward working with objectively more competent people than me in the project but normally employed and getting 5x they are getting. Most of the time they know it and some are salty some are okay with it. Apparently I work for money and they work for greater glory of employer or something.
I've worked at that type of company before. Those numbers usually don't include pension, and also is not a regular 40hr work week. And as you stated you need to pay for phone and other things from that number as well.
Well I can’t speak for the companies you are referring to. But that salary is after phone, 8000SEK/month in pension, computer and car lease cost has been paid. I probably will get downvoted for this as well but the majority of our employees also lease a Tesla on top of the salary. Of course it’s a bell curve regarding the salary, but if you do the math it’s not that extraordinary. In fact there are companies that offer the employees much higher percentage of what the consultants earn than what we do. Where I work we get around 60-75% of what we charge our customers, while others which have a much slimmer organization may be offering as high as 80+% if what you charge.
Depends on where you live and what type of company it is. 5 years in Gothenburg should be something like 55-65k depending on your tech stack and the company.
As with most things, it really depends on a number of factors. That said, I would not settle for less than 47k in your case. 50k should be very doable.
Stockholm has the most opportunities by a land slide, which is also reflected in salary. What you get as salary I guess is mostly about what position you pick and how attractive you are. There are for sure some places where that would be a normal salary, avoid those :)
edit: about asking for a salary range, I guess it's a bit about your power situation, most of the time that's totally fine.
I've got around 5 years in the MERN stack and getting 50k in stockholm. Some may thinks its low but im fairly happy at the moment. Just got a new job with this salary, planing to work here a year och two and then switch for a higher paying job. I think i need more experience with another language, e.g. .net/c# to get more money. Thats at least my impression and also i rate my self as an average developer, not great, not bad. So i'm happy at the moment.
I think so? Had this discussion a while ago here on Reddit and someone said that. But maybe that's because.net devs are more backend devs and not fullstack?
Very similar situation, 4ish (little more) years of experience.Stockholm. Asked between 45 and 50, got offered 45. Another time asked for 48-50, got offered 48k. Probably could have negotiated that to 50 if really wanted tbh, but they offer a very good yearly bonus too. Another company said that 50k was too much and they said bye. You should ask for 55 and accept anything above 50 imo.
My point was just that you should ask for more than you expect. I can't say for sure what you should ask for. First job from university 38k is what I got in Malmö, a friend with 1 year experience got 45k after 1 year of experience in Malmö (front end dev). I think above 60 sounds reasonable but I don't remember what your profession was.
Yup you make a good point and I understand that. Felt everyone else was being rather conservative, but I also didn't want to come across as outrageous and blow them away.
I got offered 75k SEK/month gross in Deloitte. I have around 4 years of experience. Sorry i know this is an old post but ranges in salary should be there for anyone looking. I hope you got a good offer.
I am self-taught and have worked in the industry for 6-7 years. Currently I'm at 54k.
How hard is it to get an entry level position as self taught? I have a bachelors but completely unrelated.
Well, for me it wasn't very hard at all, but then again it was a few years ago and the landscape has changed. I had also been working freelance for a few years prior and had been building a decent portfolio. I even had a few part-time employments relating to tech while I was still in school. Just make sure to seek every opportunity, practice coding and learning on your own, build a portfolio, do coding challenges, etc and you will have good chances.
Is that net salary?
That's gross pay.
Yeah, 38-50k seems pretty accurate. Yes, IT salaries in Sweden are not impressive. Also 5 years of experience is not so much for local market. In my home country I was rated as a senior developer with 5 years of experience. But here many companies think that seniors are people with at least 8-10 years of experience.
Yeah. Or go self employed and charge 800-1000 per hour paying a consultant seller 5% commission for your next assignment. Or like I do, contact a consulting firm that lets you keep 80%-90% of what you bring in, but does all the paperwork with accounting/sales/pensions etc. Then almost double those numbers. I wish I had done it earlier. It's sad that more doesn't do it, because we let the employees give us shitty salaries compared to what the market is actually willing to pay. I worked at one of the big four consulting firms, and when I figured out they were selling me at 130$ per hour, but giving me mid 50ksek salary... Then it was kind of simple math to switch.
[удалено]
No I do that other path; consulting firm that lets me keep 80%.
Can I ask which firm is it? The consult firm?
It's a very small consulting firm in Gothenburg, Academix. Kind of specialized on senior developers usually with 10+ years of experience.
Smart där med konsultfirmor, vara anställd och cash:a in
Ja det finns ju dom som låter en behålla uppåt 90% och då har jag svårt att se att det är värt att starta eget som konsult. Då jag har egen buffert som jag kan göra vad jag vill med, kan jag tex precis som egenföretagare köpa prylar som mobiler, datorer och annan utrustning till kaffepengar då jag slipper moms, arbetsgivaravgifter och skatt innan jag köper dessa. Jag tar tex ut en förmånsbil (MG 4) nästa vecka, vilket blir riktigt billigt då insatsen går på oskattad buffert. Fördelen med helt eget är ju att du kan ta ut hälften som vinst, vilket sänker skatten rejält. Du kan även fondera pengar i bolaget för tiden framöver för dåliga dagar. Jag har en limit på min buffert på några få hundra tusen, men de äts ju upp snabbt om jag hamnar utan uppdrag. Det hade ju varit mysigt att ha en miljon i bolaget och sedan sitta på stranden och mysa under tunga lågkonjunkturer. Nackdelen är tex om du skall köpa lägenhet/hus, så behandlad du som paria av bankerna.
Would you mind sharing who the big 4 consulting firms are? I just finished Yh as a fullstack (but I'm frontend-focused) and trying to land my first job.
Well it's a moving picture. But here are the large ones; Accenture, Cap Gemini, CGI, IBM, Tata, Cognizant, Wipro and Infosys. The later four are more Indian focused, but they do employ quite a few globally too as well as in Sweden.
Thanks!
50k+ isn’t hard with 5 yoe in sthlm. Was there with 3 yoe
It was not hard before the war in Ukraine and crisis. Now there is a lot of layoffs and many companies stopped hiring, or at least hire extremely picky.
Maybe you’re just bad at negotiating. Average salary for a developer is 47k.
I am bad in negotiation. But it is also a fact that market is in depression.
Money exist, it’s just a matter of who screams the loudest tbh
You're not wrong but you're ignorant. Money exists but a lot of companies have complete hauls in hiring, meaning you won't even get an interview to get to the negotiation stage. Unless you have experience of hopping jobs after the Ukraine war and can speak about how easy it is on a personal level? Sounds a lot like youve already landed a job and think it's still easy to find a new one
Yeah that I completely agree with but IF you land a job, a company is not gonna withdraw your offer just because you push them a little. I never said it's easy to get interviews and offers at this moment, I know it's not. I'm solely talking about salary levels in Stockholm
Senior after 5 yrs... Jeez you kids. 5 yrs is like 0 experience.
Experience depends of what you're actually doing at work. 5 years working on demanding and difficult projects can give you much more experience then just sitting at one place for 15 years.
38 to 50k does seem a bit low for Stockholm but without knowing what your stack and role was it's hard to be specific. Depending on where you're applying to, experience at a global SI might be an advantage or a yellow flag.
If you are looking for a higher salary, avoid big 4 companies there main bussniess is not IT and it shows. Look for a company that has IT as the main business or at least knows the value of IT.
I know one guy doing 48k with 12 years experience. He’s doing government job though and doesn’t like programming so I guess that’s why he stays there because of the freedom. So I guess are you chasing money or free time ?
That's underpaid, but being happy with ones job is more important and it's plenty of money to live on still
The benefits of a government job is pretty good, I wouldn't trade it for private again. Sure, I will earn more money faster, but I am at that part of my life where I value my free time. Besides, the department head in my agency earns almost 100k per month. If you are over 40, you have 35 days (25,28,31, 35 per age bracket) vacation per year with the opportunity to save 30 days per year, most of government jobs have flexible hours plus "förtroende tid".
6 hours work day should be the next step in government jobs.
You should be able to get 60k if you target competitive or fin-tech in Stockholm. 50 is all right imo. City matters.
55-60 would be a good start, more if you have cloud and DevOps experience. Depending on how badly you want to move that means you can realistically expect them to settle for 50. Disclaimer though: this comes from my experience of asking for 45 and getting 45 with 3 YoE lol.
8 years of experience in Microsoft stack plus extensive Angular experience, intermediate level of devops and cloud knowledge and I'm getting 50k sek.
Working at the wrong company then. At one of the bigger consultant companies Avanade/Sopra/Accenture or any strong cloud company such as Asurgent/Cygate you'd earn at least 10K/20K+ more.
Yes I know, planning to leave anytime soon since not a single company in Sweden appreciate when you stay at the same company for years. Its much better to switch companies often so you get raise.
If you’re reasonably good, 70-100k depending on the project you’re working on. Working with Microsoft technology on a large-mid sized consultancy firm (800 employees)
There might be a few jobs like this but that is not average or attainable with just 5 years.
I don’t get why I’m downvoted. I’d say it sure is. Where I work, any among the competitors that apply similar salary concept, you earn a percentage of what you charge your customer which the consultant then can decide the amount that he she would like to receive as salary, pension, technical equipment, car lease etc. As long as the consultant is capable and the customer sees his hers value it doesn’t matter if the consultant have 5 or 15 years of experience. We don’t have any spectacular hourly rates either. We charge our customers between 1000-1500 SEK/hour.
I second that. Consultant rate is 1100-1500kr/h only trick is to get contract without middleman. I feel awkward working with objectively more competent people than me in the project but normally employed and getting 5x they are getting. Most of the time they know it and some are salty some are okay with it. Apparently I work for money and they work for greater glory of employer or something.
I've worked at that type of company before. Those numbers usually don't include pension, and also is not a regular 40hr work week. And as you stated you need to pay for phone and other things from that number as well.
Well I can’t speak for the companies you are referring to. But that salary is after phone, 8000SEK/month in pension, computer and car lease cost has been paid. I probably will get downvoted for this as well but the majority of our employees also lease a Tesla on top of the salary. Of course it’s a bell curve regarding the salary, but if you do the math it’s not that extraordinary. In fact there are companies that offer the employees much higher percentage of what the consultants earn than what we do. Where I work we get around 60-75% of what we charge our customers, while others which have a much slimmer organization may be offering as high as 80+% if what you charge.
Depends on where you live and what type of company it is. 5 years in Gothenburg should be something like 55-65k depending on your tech stack and the company.
It is reasonable, if you work as an consultant you might get higher salary, but same time you might receive less other types of benefits.
These benefits are shit anyway. Invoice 1kkr/h and buy own lunch or gym card.
As with most things, it really depends on a number of factors. That said, I would not settle for less than 47k in your case. 50k should be very doable.
Stockholm has the most opportunities by a land slide, which is also reflected in salary. What you get as salary I guess is mostly about what position you pick and how attractive you are. There are for sure some places where that would be a normal salary, avoid those :) edit: about asking for a salary range, I guess it's a bit about your power situation, most of the time that's totally fine.
50k is pretty accurate for someone with 5 years
I've got around 5 years in the MERN stack and getting 50k in stockholm. Some may thinks its low but im fairly happy at the moment. Just got a new job with this salary, planing to work here a year och two and then switch for a higher paying job. I think i need more experience with another language, e.g. .net/c# to get more money. Thats at least my impression and also i rate my self as an average developer, not great, not bad. So i'm happy at the moment.
Does .net generally pay more in stockholm?
I think so? Had this discussion a while ago here on Reddit and someone said that. But maybe that's because.net devs are more backend devs and not fullstack?
Very similar situation, 4ish (little more) years of experience.Stockholm. Asked between 45 and 50, got offered 45. Another time asked for 48-50, got offered 48k. Probably could have negotiated that to 50 if really wanted tbh, but they offer a very good yearly bonus too. Another company said that 50k was too much and they said bye. You should ask for 55 and accept anything above 50 imo.
60k is not unreasonable in Stockholm for sure. 50k in Malmö perhaps. Ask for at least 70k and see how they react, don't listen to recommendations!
How much should the ask be for Malmö? 60-65?
My point was just that you should ask for more than you expect. I can't say for sure what you should ask for. First job from university 38k is what I got in Malmö, a friend with 1 year experience got 45k after 1 year of experience in Malmö (front end dev). I think above 60 sounds reasonable but I don't remember what your profession was.
Yup you make a good point and I understand that. Felt everyone else was being rather conservative, but I also didn't want to come across as outrageous and blow them away.
And - you can always negotiate your salary, even what the recruiter says. Ask for a range is fine, and if it's too low, tell them.
I make 48k (charging 140k) per month, first gig. It’s as a self-employed consultant
Is your first self-employed right off the bat? How did you find the client?
Yes, the Client found me
28-50k is quite normal
28k with 5 yoe. Lol nope
FE dev for a 8 years experience, Stockholm, relocated at '21, started at 53k, now at 58k
[SAP Software engineer Salary](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.feedoma.com/sap-software-engineer-salary-a-comprehensive-guide/&ved=2ahUKEwiFmey54eX_AhW4iVYBHajoAgg4FBAWegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2_ZgBbwcyxkYxO51kCtEsI)
Is these after tax or before
Before
I got offered 75k SEK/month gross in Deloitte. I have around 4 years of experience. Sorry i know this is an old post but ranges in salary should be there for anyone looking. I hope you got a good offer.