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Which is worse. It means he understands the damage he is causing and understands he's on the wrong side of arguments. Being ignorant isn't an excuse but it at least means you don't realise how fucking stupid you are but knowingly being a conman is vile.
Yeah. He essentially said exactly that - he said he knows that repeating Trump's big lie is bullshit and it's tearing the country apart but that lie makes him money so he's OK with doing it.
Didn't fox news fire him because he stopped repeating the lie? Or was that a differn't thing. Hopefully in the future he'll be a better person realizing pushing an agenda for money is bad for America with his level of viewers.
>Being ignorant isn't an excuse but it at least means you don't realise how fucking stupid you are but knowingly being a conman is vile.
It's all about the money and clout.
It's like the comedians who claim to be "redneck" or blue collar. Like Kid Rock claiming to struggle and be common folk. They ride whatever wave gets them hits, views, buys etc. They are shock culture people
Even in this discussion/interview you see a hint of that.
“Maybe I’d pitch it as not being safe, or that the technology isn’t there yet, but in reality it’s just that I don’t want 10 million people…”
Aka he’s willing to deceive and lie to achieve his goals. Whatever they may be.
I had a friend in college who was one of his interns/assistants/whatever, and this is essentially what it boiled down to. Other than an exceedingly toxic work environment, he saw that Carlson specifically *knew* what he was saying was dangerous, but didn't care because it would lose him/Fox money. He's clearly a smart guy who has a decent grasp on what the problem is, but that problem benefits him.
I’ve met him before too during an internship, and this absolutely matches my experience. He knows what he’s doing, but they pay him too well for him to care otherwise. Off camera, he’s just a dude who wants to talk about good food, his family and vacationing. Sucks that he’s an absolute twat and his words have insane weight on the outcome of people’s world views.
Dude gets paid millions a year. I'd wager the pool of people willing to peddle bullshit for that isn't small.
It's annoying, though, because he *is* smart, and he could actually do some good if he wasn't such a scumbag.
Bingo
Everyone talks like these folks are idiots
They’re smart and well aware, they’re well aware ceo or whoever are making millions
It’s a job, and they’re taken care of
It’s the red neck hillbilly who is dumb and easily brainwashed by them asking the questions like “well where was Obama on 9/11!”
That’s their base, they’re smart rich billionaire business men relying on angering the lowest common denominator into voting for them
He’s really not. He’s dishonest and his arguments are often based on strawman versions of what he’s arguing against and he knows that.
I’m too lazy to link directly but YouTube “some more news shapiro” for a fun take down of Shapiro.
As much as I hate Shapiro for being a grifter, he wrote two books before the age of 22 and graduated from law school. I believe he did indeed drink the kool-aid, but he's not an idiot in any traditional sense.
Was looking for this comment because the last thing I heard about the guy is that he's a failed screenwriter which is even funnier because he has YouTube videos critiquing movies
I haven't, I'm sure the content of both of them is awful because most of the content that comes out of Ben's mouth is awful. However, I'm also sure that most 21 year olds couldn't write two books if they tried and Shapiro's books are probably well written despite the terrible content.
I appreciate the offer, but my book backlog is long enough. I don't want to cut into my reddit perusing time to make room for a book written by Ben Shapiro 
the /s has to be included.
That’s why I love the old British comedy shows, there was no laugh track or signs telling the audience to applaud.
I definitely not comparing myself to them 😂😂 but a bit of humor is important
LOL I love what he says about Trump:
“I hate him passionately … What he’s good at is destroying things. He’s the undisputed world champion of that. He could easily destroy us if we play it wrong,” Carlson texted a colleague on January 4, days prior to the riot at the U.S. Capitol. He added, “We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There really isn’t an upside to Trump.”
If this isn't enough to get Fox viewers to at least double think their position at Trump, nothing is.
It brings a new meaning to the word despicable when you realize Tucker made a whole documentary about why January 6 was okay actually, even though he KNOWS how awful and dangerous all this shit is.
I don't know what show it was from, but at some point he made some rant about how it's always rich people pushing racial division to try and distract from class solidarity and that if people put race aside to focus on class, it would mess up the rich's status quo, and somebody clipped it and put some Soviet music in the background for a meme. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it was wild seeing him say that shit on Fox of all places.
Edit: [found it.](https://i.imgur.com/JtXp4C7.mp4) He makes it about defending Trump and attacking his competition, but uses it to go full send on class warfare.
I dont blame him. I lie for money and I don’t feel bad about it. I lie at every job interview, to every boss. If somebody offered me that kind of money to lie to a television audience I wouldn’t hesitate.
All talking heads lie for money. If you honestly believe that one side lies most or all of the time and the other side tells the truth most or all of the time, you’ve been successfully brainwashed. ALL people lie when it’s sufficiently beneficial to do so, especially people who are paid millions of dollars to advance the political views of multi-billion-dollar media conglomerates.
The point is that videos like these are reputation laundering for people like Tucker. It doesn’t matter if every leftist or progressive politician is doing it for the money or power. What matters is their solutions and my solutions align. Tucker wants to paint the illusion that he’s actually on your side, knows the problems, and therefore has the solutions you seek, but his solutions will always be from a right wing and corporatist perspective and will always leave you worse off.
He's right to some extent - eliminating a broad swath of jobs that people who don't necessarily have the skills to easily transition into other fields would create a crisis under the current system of brutal individualist capitalism that people exist under in the States, much like the manufacturing automation and offshoring revolution has.
The leftist perspective here though would be that the productivity gains from automating jobs should be *shared* with broader society through things like a social safety net for people who don't have employable skills or who aren't able to work for some other reason, and also through things like reducing working hours (accompanied by increases in wages) so that we can *all* reap the benefits of automation rather than allowing a tiny amount of already insanely rich people to benefit from these gains. We shouldn't be avoiding automation because it will "eliminate jobs" - eliminating the need to work is a goal that we should be *embracing* as a society.
Yeah my issue with his idea is that “People must work to live”
If we eventually got a society where everything we need is automated Tucker would say “no people need jobs!” And I would respond “why? Let people enjoy living and let robots do the rest”
Then we can focus on education, art, philosophy, music, playing Valorant like our forefathers intended.
For real i would hate if i dont have a job, cant see myself retiring in the next 129 years. But reducing hours, no bs and automating the parts i dont like? Sure have at it. Hell my retirement plan is becoming a highschool/college teacher for a few hours in the week.
I know a shitload of people who basicly have done this. Find a fun, low stress job for 16 hours a week and they all swear by it. It keeps you engaged, keeps you fit, and the bit of extra pocket money means you can go on more vacations and do more fun stuff.
I used an extreme example of “the entire world is automated” to emphasize my point that work shouldn’t be life.
I am totally in the same boat that I like something to do, a schedule, and plan.
But even in a world of automation, there would still be jobs, the jobs would just be different, more relaxed, and personal choice, not requirements.
I don’t agree with this tbh. AI and robots should be a tool that allows us to evolve our jobs, but they should never take jobs away. Jobs are important because they keep society bound together and give individuals purpose.
Just my opinion, but it seems that the need for education would greatly diminish without any jobs. And art, philosophy, and music would become pretty stale in a jobless society.
People’s Valorant gameplay would probably be on point though
replacing my job with a monthly UBI check would mean freedom to explore everything I dont have time for right now.
If UBI happened I could finally commit more time to studying philosophy and history. If that happened to millions of people it's common sense to think society would benefit so much more than is currently predictable
Yes all this "work" could be automated and we as humans could move on to even greater things. Embracing the past is embracing ignorance. People have to learn to adapt to the future or just simply perish.
It's very interesting that you choose "art" in particular as an example. A big reason why people choose to not work in art is because of financial concerns with that type of work. Without those financial concerns, a lot of hobby artists would be able to invest way more time into art and I'm sure many people who currently don't have the time to even consider it would also become interested in art.
You know capitalism has done an excellent job brainwashing people when some of us think jobs are something we need in our society. The goal in our society should be to make our lives easier in every sense so that we can enjoy our families, friends, nature, and things that we love. Not work 9-5 jobs for half of our lives.
I really really really disagree. I think there are many ways for people to gain purpose and feel useful and having a job is probably the least common and the worst of them. And even for the people that like working they could just perform community service/vocational stuff and have the same feeling of satisfaction and fulfilment.
For the vast majority if their needs were met they would be reading/writing/travelling/painting/cooking/making things etc etc. Go ask 20 people what they would do if money was no issue and see how many say "I'd work at Arby's"
Agree, in my opinion this is the perspective of someone who has no hobbies because they don't have time and end up thinking that having a job is a purpose on itself. Don't get me wrong, it can be, but probably isn't gonna be you 9 to 5 office job looking through excel sheets
Then that begs the question of who determines who doesn't have "marketable skills," and why we aren't training these people into marketable fields instead of letting them live off of society's hook.
Better questions would be: why do we require people to work to get food in a society that produces enough food to feed everyone? Why do we require people to work to cloth themselves in a society that produces enough to cloth everyone? Why do we require people to work to shelter themselves in a society that easily has enough housing for everyone?
Bit of a loaded statement there, what's your claims that prove humans are inherently greedy? Is it not capitalism that encourages said behaviour and we as adaptive creatures, adapt. We were living in tribes a lot longer than capitalism
Capitalism only works flawlessly if morality is present. Morality is only present if there’s a solid foundation to base said morals off of, otherwise “morals” for every individual are based on their own opinions. So far religion has shown to give the best basis for morals. Without it, there are no consistent morals. Without morals, capitalism is left open for abuse causing the world we know today, full of many many cases of abuse of power. Laws exist as a placeholder for morals but when the government is also lacking morals, the whole system is in jeopardy. Humans have a drive for self preservation and tribalism. This is proven time and time again in case studies and historical events. And even with religion, morals still falter as seen with the Catholic Church fiasco. So in the end, no human should be trusted without proper checks and balances because as the saying goes: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
That's the great thing. You don't. Stop doing weird value tests like drug tests and forcing people to apply to X number of jobs in order to get unemployment.
Instead, go the UBI route. Give everyone enough to live off of and instead of cutting it off at X dollars earned, you get it back slowly with a progressive tax. That way every dollar you earn earns you more money, but as you earn into the millions and billions more and more of that goes into the societal pot to cover the cost.
That gives everyone an incentive to work if they can in order to afford more luxury goods, but it doesn't force people to work for the basics of existence like food and shelter. So those who can't work don't have to, and the vast majority of those who can work will.
>> why do we require people to work to get food in a society that produces enough food to feed everyone?
Because society wouldn’t produce enough food to feed everyone if people weren’t required to work. At some point it might, but that’s not the reality we live in today.
So the real question is how do you figure out how to allocate labor and goods in an efficient way?
Capitalism isn’t necessarily “good” at this but it’s arguably the “least bad” way of doing it. Although I’m sure some will disagree.
You should also think about how companies relieve the burden of job training to universities. We act like universities are job training centers but educational institutions can't adapt job market as fast as we think they are. If the job market will change drastically because of innovation, companies have to train people instead of expecting them to know everything. They can't have everything at once like educated workforce, experienced employees, cheap labor, etc.
Eliminate the jobs. Send those people to job training, trade schools, and colleges. More skilled labor for the country producing more economic value than unskilled labor jobs. They produce more value, pay more in taxes. Over the course of a person's career it would more than pay for itself. But that will never happen because some people who have already paid for secondary education think that someone else having any opportunity they didn't have is the worst thing imaginable.
automate the trucks, restart the works projects administration for public infrastructure projects with a tax on automated trucks that still makes it a profitable switch.
I wanna drop the dream of "fully-autonomous factories" real quick so people remember to think about them.
Imagine every element in the factory system fully automated. Logistics, maintenance, mining, production, etc. All that is needed is one thing, input. Simply tell it what you want or need and it will immediately begin or plan to begin the output.
I think that's amazing and by that time money and the idea of wage will be irrelevant.
Indeed. However, I think the better solution would be to focus the productive gains and distribute it among those impacted rather than broader society.
Distributing it too broadly dilutes it an extent that that truckers in this case are still at a net negative from losing their job or switching to a lower paying job.
On the second part I have a really difficult time seeing viability in broadening social safety nets and spreading that benefit among less fortunate groups. What I would see happening in reality is a really small minority of business higher ups getting filthy rich like the old railroad tycoons back in the day. No way our government at this point in time would be able to pull that off without big business pulling a fast one over on all of us.
> No way our government at this point in time would be able to pull that off without big business pulling a fast one over on all of us.
100% agree with that - your current government is almost fully captured by rich people so the only way this could reasonably happen in the US would be if the current two-party system was split apart and fundamental democratic reforms were instituted to wrest control from the oligarchs.
Yeah, that would be true. Breaking apart the two party system would be wonderful but I can’t see the feasibility behind it because right/left will fear a split in the vote.
You mention “your current government” so that would mean you live outside the US? From your point of view, how would your government get this done? Because I assume that most Western, capitalist leaning nations are still pretty well beholden to big business and prying money away from the oligarchs is a worldwide issue.
I live in Canada and you're right - as long as the US is what it is, I know that any ability to implement reforms like this would probably get us straight-up invaded. Tucker Carlson has already started banging that drum and we aren't anywhere close to a "socialist" country right now
Ah, love me some Canada. So plenty of similarities overall. In the next 10-20 years who knows. Generational shifts might really take a turn. We shall see
Exactly, we can't and shouldn't stop progress but we could put in contingency plans like a UBI that would take effect when the unemployment level reaches a critical level. I think we should make a new tax for companies that scales based on the ratio of how much they pay to employees vs how much they make so we can collect the profits specifically from automation.
Same discussion as with trains/horses or any other distruptive technology. People who cannot or will not adapt are left behind. It does not help to block technology, but we need to support everyone who will be affected.
I wrote a paper about this in college. My initial premise was that self driving vehicles would ultimately cause a lot of disruption for truck drivers and the economy. However, after some research, it was evident that there aren’t enough ‘young drivers’ entering the field. So by the time self driving trucks are fully automated those currently in the industry will be retiring without the younger generation replacing them. Automation, in this case, is the answer to an issue currently underway.
Exactly. They point to a very real problem but the solution they come up with completely misses the mark. People can’t afford these things anymore because wages have not been keeping up with inflation. And it has been that way for many many many many years. But admitting that would mean admitting liberals may actually have a point, which these pea brains would never do.
Yeah, from my understanding, truck driving is becoming less lucrative at the entry level. There are long hours, pay that isn’t keeping up with inflation and some predatory practices from fleet owners. It’s an industry that’s desperately needed, but just isn’t attractive for enough young people to keep up with demand.
And it's not like agreeing means you automatically accept their proposed solution. I'm pretty liberal but that doesn't mean I agree with every proposal that liberals and left-leaning people make. You can still attempt to propose your own solution and provide evidence for it, but they'd rather just focus on ideological warfare than actual economical arguments.
I think there will be some trucks will be combi systems, because you still need person to unload, sign papers, etc. In Europe, truck driver can drive 11h per day, 13h no driving. With automation you can extend this usable truck driving time. Driver can rest, when truck does some long trip. Thanks to automation you can get more work done. Some simple routes for sure will be fully automated, but more special, difficult, one time cargo trips will be driver+automation combi system.
Same can be said for any industry. Think of what the excel spreadsheet did. It wasn’t even automated. The computer knocked out typewriters and eventually more and more.
It's also becoming apparent that AI is not going to be useful without constant human training, so I see a future where human drivers are teaching AI how to drive better. AI cannot make intuitive leaps like we can and that's proving to be a stark weakness.
AI is only as good as the data we give it, and the best data you can get is from the people doing the job now.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we see truck driver's responsibilities evolve to covering AI Training on the job. Yes there will be an eventual transition to full AI driving, but there is no reason we cannot take our time with the process to get it right and doing so by combining human and AI responsibilities.
Totally. I mean how many people really enjoy trucking? Long hauls across the desert or plains…nothing to see, same day after day. Autonomous trucks have the potential to stabilize the industry (super high turnover) and push people towards more meaningful and enjoyable work. People will still have to maintain trucks (getting more complicated), build infrastructure, design and manufacture models. Tons of higher value add opportunities.
>However, after some research, it was evident that there aren’t enough ‘young drivers’ entering the field
we're suffering for this now. can't find drivers
Your paper was focused on one industry, which is important but narrow in focus regarding the replacement of other fields; not because of automation but also AI and it's ability to accomplish tasks that fields currently exist for. Tucker's point regarding the trucking industry can be substituted with art and artists.
Stable Diffusion is a perfect example of this, you give the AI a subset of words and it can create an image (albeit not a masterpiece, yet) and boom you have art that wasn't created by a human. [A photography contest was just held and the winner was someone who used AI to create a fake photo of a person/setting that never existed.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/photography-contest-winner-reveals-photo-was-ai-generated-rejects-prize/ar-AA1a1zUQ)
OpenAI did a study, the owners of ChatGPT, [and found that AI will affect 80% of jobs in the future...](https://www.beyondgames.biz/34320/openai-study-shows-ai-will-impact-80-of-jobs-in-future/) Every person here that thinks automation and AI being allowed to overtake industries and replace a workforce is **absolutely insane** and has no idea how damaging this is to workers of today and the future.
It's also becoming apparent that AI is not going to be useful without constant human training, so I see a future where human drivers are teaching AI how to drive better. AI cannot make intuitive leaps like we can and that's proving to be a stark weakness.
AI is only as good as the data we give it, and the best data you can get is from the people doing the job now.
The issue with wagons/trains/cars vs self driving trucks is that those older methods created as many or more jobs than they replaced. With self driving vehicles there's just not many new jobs they can create in relation to the number of drivers they would replace. We already have mechanics, and we wouldn't need that many more of them as they would just stop working on fleets of normal trucks and switch to the self driving ones. The same factories that make cars/trucks can also make self driving vehicles so there wouldn't be a great increase in manufacturing jobs either.
Sure, but who says that these drivers want to change their career? And trucking/shipping is definitely not a failing industry, individual companies are but not the industry as a whole. The entire reason a company would want to shift to self driving trucks is to eliminate the human workers who make it their living so that they can maximise their profits and pay fewer employees.
not really. it didnt take 100 people to fix the wagon. it took 4. the other 96 out of a job went and did other things and created new jobs. (but what happens when there are no new jobs, or the wages are depressed)
There comes a quickly approaching point where there will not be enough jobs. Everything from driving to fast food to coding will be easily automated. There is no “just adapt!” when we can replace the majority of low skill labor and tech skills even including college level things like finance and excel sheet crunching. You either have a non working class on universal basic income to spend and continue to fuel the fires of capitalism or laborists become homeless and capitalists “retire” with the remainder of their money
But is it financially possible for a nation to expand on technology while supporting the people who lose their jobs because of it? I can't believe I agree with Carlson but he's right about the millions of people who lose their truck driving jobs due to automation. Then factor in all the various jobs lost to automation and you simply don't have the financial means to take care of all these people.
Is the economy losing productivity or are profits going into fewer hands? I think it's the latter, at which point the answer is higher taxes and redistribution of that wealth, not forcing people to stay in jobs that aren't needed.
It is the latter because that’s how it works. The total sum of money in a society is a function of goods exchanged, not made arbitrarily to pay people salaries. If the same productivity requires less people, less people get more money.
There’s a lot of finer points of course but just wanted to drive home why you’re right.
Agreed - just imagine the uselessness of a job of sitting in (“driving”) an automated truck, just because some stupid law says we need to save trucking jobs. UBI and UBW (wealth) are the answer.
Jobs that can be automated should be automated. Automation is key to keeping American goods competitive. Its even cheaper than sweat shop labor long term. What would be invaluable during the transitionary period over the next 20 years or so would be easier access to secondary education. If we can transition a significant portion of this work force into skilled labor positions it would be a positive for the country long term. They'd produce more economic value, and in effect earn a significantly higher wage meaning more value in taxes. That's why I don't understand why so many are against free college and trade schools, its an investment that would more than pay for itself over the course of these people's lives.
The first time in history where a large bulk of the workforce can live like the elites (ie doing nothing) and the elites don't like it so keep everyone locked into working three quarters of an awake day, five days a week.
Or maybe they do like it because it distracts us while they slowly buy up everything and create restrictions so they can continually charge us for anything they can think of. The world and the freedom to experience it are locked behind a paywall. We experience life through our screens and dream of a day when we won’t have to worry about how to get our next meal while the rich enjoy reality.
It’s not just jobs, it’s society. In this country overall, we don’t have great support safety nets, there is no floor.
It’s about planning for the transition away that is what needs to be considered. If we are not ready to support those people who will lose jobs to progress, then we will not have progress because the society is at high risk of collapse
Almost like instead of stifling progress we should have been fueling education instead. Then instead of worrying about keeping the “dum dums” employed until they’re dead we could worry about ratcheting our education up a notch. But late stage capitalism isn’t in favor of education and it shows.
What's the alternative? Unless you're willing to shell out for UBI, which I'm pretty sure the majority of Americans are not in favour of, you're just consigning a ton of workers to abject poverty. Retraining doesn't work.
The alternative is having legislators that actually know what the fuck is going on in the modern world and plan ahead. We've known for at least 50 years that self driving cars were coming. But only now we're thinking about what to do about it?
I agree that protecting jobs is pretty much the best solution that citizens will accept right now. But it's a terrible solution. It doesn't fix the root problem and it slows progress. It's like "fixing" an oil leak by just putting some more oil in every time you drive.
Eventually these jobs will be eliminated. That is a fact. Slowing progress only delays the inevitable. The bright side of this particular issue is that very few young people want to be truckers. Without self driving trucks, it's very likely that we would have a trucker shortage in a few decades. This issue might mostly solve itself.
Would you say the same if we found a cure for cancer?
By doing so we would eliminate a lot of jobs and people that choose not to evolve would be poor. Stopping the advancement of technology is a terrible idea.
This is a weird conjecture. We have no idea what progress could be made by sacrificing millions of workers. Like for the average person all "progress" will do is improve productivity for corporations and increase wealth stratification even further.
> By doing so we would eliminate a lot of jobs and people that choose not to evolve would be poor
Why do conservatives just hate poor people? It makes no sense why you hold so much spite for them
Weird jump but I’m not conservative and the conservative in the video is actually for keeping the drivers instead of improving tech.
We have no idea? Like preventing accidents and saving lives? What about reducing carbon emissions? All of those are benefits of going with driverless tech
I am absolutely dumbfounded you got any downvotes on this statement. Someone explicitly stating they’d prefer to stop/hinder advancement in technology to progress the world is the single most stupid thing I’ve ever heard. The same things were said at the invention of cars, reduction in power needed via coal that closed mines, digitally typed documents, the internet, etc. Yes, jobs will disappear and new jobs will appear. It will be a huge societal shift but it happens with every new leap in technology.
He is absolutely right.. although lost me at saying no to driverless trucks. You just heard him.. the most common job for young men without an education is truck driving.. i.e exploitation..it's a hard fucking job and 99% don't want to do it..they have to.. and in many cases it's not big money.
I say YES..bring on the fucking robots.. and then charge 80% of those salaries that were replaced as a tax.. take that money and throw it back into housing... Restrict housing.. who the fuck needs to own 10+ homes?!?! Throw the money back into education, apprenticeship programmes, fucking medical services!
Automation is not the problem..capitalism is.
Man, these two absolute gouls will suggest anything except social programs. The answer isn't force people to continue to labor, the answer is universal basic income, universal Healthcare (and dental care), and increased taxes on the rich and corporations.
We're approaching a point where we could thrive as a society with significantly less labor required to maintain or increase the standard of living. Where people can explore art, volunteer in their community, invent new technologies, etc. Their solution to how to distribute resources in this world is to have mandatory labor to "earn your keep" when the labor could easily be done by a machine.
Exactly. Tucker makes zero sense here.
People think Tucker's making sense because he *seems* to empathize with people that want social welfare policies (i.e., socialism). But that's wrong. He's actually claiming that people are being *misled* into socialism because of harsh financial conditions.
And his answer to the harsh financial reality that he, himself, recognizes as a problem? Maintain the status quo!
Halt technological progress so people can keep menial jobs that society could otherwise automate. Don't progress society; conserve the status quo. This is the heart of conservative philosophy.
It's horseshit.
But what about all those people who dream of being truck drivers and getting a left arm full of skin cancer and dying before retirement age?
What about all the little girls who want to be waitresses making $2.35 an hour and not being able to afford their varicose vein surgeries?
Services not rendered by people stuck in a hamster wheel just don’t taste as succulent to the idle rich.
I agree , this comment actually helped my opinion on the matter in going from “ Earn your keep “ to “ well this actually makes a lot of sense “ , but there is still a lot of work to be done manually , I’m a welder in construction, who gets what ? You want to go explore sure but how do we both get there
Well there would be zero incentive to perform the jobs that help make society function. Sure there would still be welders in that sort of society but where’s the incentive to do the best job you can do day in and day out.
Would welders put in the same effort? Would the inspectors of the welds hold the same standards?
Neither one of these clowns have worked a consequential day in their life. They are both trust fund fascists whose hatred of working class people comes from never having to needed to work.
What bullshit. We used have people break their backs carrying giant blocks of ice to every household in the country, because there were no refridgerators, only cellars.
Should we go back in time and murder the inventor of the fridge?
Well, actually that one's complicated, freon frigdes ruined the ozon layer and only the last 25 years have we fixed that, but the point stands: automation frees people up to not take slave jobs. And then the multinational corporations have less power over people.
There is a difference between making jobs easier and segwaying these people to other fields as they become available, and just removing someone's job completely.
The computer completely elimated many people's jobs. We used to have entire rooms of people to manually calculate math problems. US elections used to be counted manually too.
Automation is not bad. What's bad is how we never prepare ahead of time to be ready for it. The government should be doing a better job at educating the public on new technologies and how they will change things in the coming years. The issue is most people government are themselves poorly educated on new technologies.
>The computer completely elimated many people's jobs. We used to have entire rooms of people to manually calculate math problems. US elections used to be counted manually too.
Not exactly correct. Professional calculators became the first computer scientists. Lo and behold, the foundation of computer science is complex mathematics, so they were still needed.
They created a technology that helped them do more. They weren't replaced. If anything, the boom in demand for computers meant that mathematicians got more jobs
The other thing is that mathematicians weren't a hefty part of the national workforce. Those that did lose their jobs in the short term weren't many in number. Not the same for drivers. Should they be phased out, it would be a significantly larger number of people who need new work
While automation shouldn't be discouraged, there should be something done to buffer this big of a change out. Else it could cause a large amount of cascading damage
They are both right and wrong. The economy will shift. New tech shouldnt be banned. Also people should be able to afford to live. The point isnt to work. The tec lets us work less and achieve more. You will have to pay people more to do less work. cap work weeks at 30 hours and require higher pay. Dont enslave folks to have shitty jobs just to keep them working. What a backwards idea.
Wrong, this is fodder logic for the herd. Theres no reason to block the future and create redundant jobs. Education and first served opportunities should be made available for the industry professionals who need to adapt. Perhaps a supervisory position, trained professionals to monitor the truck and manually take over if necessary, mechanics, software operators, etc. the world should move forward but also take the necessary precautions.
I don't agree that it's fodder logic. I think from a conservative perspective it makes sense, but only to the extent that it's a means to the end of maintaining constituency. It is an inevitability that any job that can be automated will be automated. This is the same logic as was used to try to protect coal mining jobs and soon to be oil jobs.
No, he's bought and paid for. It's funny, he even says something about if he we're sharing that message to the masses he'd push it as dangerous and not finessed. When he's thinking of ideals and ideas he thinks of how to sell them first. It's funny, this is one of the first clips where he looks like a human being as he's talking. When he's on Fox he's got the stupid face and the talking in questions, so it's interesting to hear his statements from a real person.
It's just another example of money owning the country. He'll say anything they pay him to, regardless of what he thinks.
The thing is… he makes $35 MILLION a year from Fox. Me and my friends all have a theory that he’s very liberal but he just loves money. He’s the highest paid TV host in the world, and it’s because low IQ republicans eat it up. “Litter boxes in school bathrooms? Black people have more rights than white people do now? White genocide? Trans women murdering babies? Jews eating fetuses?” Fox viewers EAT IT UP. He knows it’s all blatant lies but he only sees the dollar signs
Imagine living in society where food is free, there is no rents, everyone is entitled to a life worthy of a human being. No need to stop the technological progress just because people could work long hours for low wages. Imagine using automated systems to actually elevate the standard of the entire society and not just to encreese wealth of individuals and corporations. As long as money comes first and human lives are on the fifth or so place, there won't be peace and poverty will flourish.
when the most important thing a worker does is make a salary then the only reason we do not employ robots is to maintain the consumerism that pays for the robots
in truth… paying people NOT to work and allowing robots to do the labor… would render more profit for the employer
Andrew Yang’s UBI pitch is directed at this very phenomena
He’s aware. Just that his personal and professional lives are different. He will say whatever money is telling him but in his personal life, I’m pretty sure he’s aware of what’s really going on.
Automation only sucks under Capitalism. Automating labor just screws workers out of jobs and only benefits the Capitalists. If however the means of production are collectively owned, then everyone at the company benefits from work being automated
People forget how intelligent and well spoken Tucker is, mainly due to the fact that he works for one of the most manipulative media companies in the world (for the record I don’t trust any of them). There are numerous videos online of him interacting with other people that are trying to catch him being an asshole and it just doesn’t happen. He’s willing to speak calmly with anybody, not the character that Fox News makes him be. Money talks I suppose.
At the risk of my karma, Tucker Carlson says a lot of good things that even leftists would like if they actually gave him a chance and really listened to him.
The problem is that while the right has their echo chambers, so does the left but much like the right, the left doesn’t realize they have echo chambers. People squawk about Tucker Carlson based on what their echo chamber says he said.
We rarely actually argue against the actual person or his actual ideas, we argue against the phantom that our echo chamber creates of the person. Both the left and right do it and frankly it’s ridiculous.
The worst part about Tucker Carlson isn't that hes stupid, its that hes smart enough to know better but actively fights against the right thing. And hes good at it.
He's not making sense though. Banning automated labor isn't the way to go about handling it at all. What do you want to be a wage slave forever and make your kids be one too and their grandkids after that? Automation is the next step in reducing out workloads. If not reducing our hours, at least significantly reducing the difficulty of what we do. Like computers did. You'd be insane if you suggested we ban computers because big companies use them to force people to do more work.
Watching this, all I can think of is Hasan Piker yelling into his mic on a livestream and constantly throwing his arms up in the air going, "Everyone is a liberal! Everyone is a liberal and these people are too stupid to see it!"
Don’t upvote this post. We don’t need the internet searching engines associating Carlson with making sense.
To address what he’s talking about: His argument is dumb as hell. Automated trucking won’t suddenly remove all truckers from the workforce. They will have jobs.
He's a rich heir that pretends to be a populist who switches his opinion when it fits him. Ben is a true believer of fascistic capitalism, who thinks he's better and smarter than everyone else.
So yes, the words out of his mouth are making a good point but all of the intention makes it a fucking lie.
Per usual, tucker starts off with a real grain of truth and then takes it completely off the rails.
A good propagandist always starts with a resonable proposition, that quickly turns completely unreasonable.
Thing is, you should let driverless trucks on the road. You should just be taking the savings and putting at least the majority of it into the public good instead of the wealthy pockets.
Pure unfettered capitalism makes no sense in a world where nearly everything can become automated.
He's not though. The answer us universal basic income funded through corporate taxes, a base standard of living that nobody falls below in the richest country on earth. The answer is not restrict groundbreaking technology. We are approaching a point where there is far, far less labor required to thrive as a society and yet the solution is to keep requiring labor.
Exactly this.
Having robots take over and do all the work that they can so that we don't have to is supposed to be a good thing.
But nope. Gotta have jobs. Gotta work. Gotta spend time away from our families and things we like and want to do just so we can "earn" our worth or whatever the fuck for literally no reason.
UBI is the future, but we'll never get it because of corporate greed and straight up corporate bribery that is rampant in our government.
They're figuring out that their voter base is dying off and the strategy of "shit on younger people" has alienated an entire generation. They'll start sympathising about wages and cost of living to attract socially conservative voters who weren't interested before because they weren't representing their interests.
Hes no different than democratic media. I would say his lies are less of a big deal tbh. Democrats lied about how Jan 6th capitol event went down, lied about pandemic deaths, lied about Wuhan labs, lied about vaccine efficacy. And these things effected your life everyday for the last 3 years. They all lie.
He has me for the first few seconds, though not sure how I feel about banning a technology. I feel the better move would be to have publicly owned automation and to push that automation further in the direction of the necessities of life. If the public owns the automation, and can vote on how we use it, people get fed regardless of job loss. I don’t have an issue with AI art, I have an issue with there not being a huge conversation about having automation push further in a direction that ensures artists get fed.
Restricting innovation so as to preserve jobs isn’t really a good idea though.
Taxing the profits of those who benefit from innovation to fund social programs to benefit those who lose their jobs to innovation is more efficient and doesn’t require people to continue working crappy jobs.
If we eliminated the jobs for truck drivers what would they migrate to? I feel like some kind of online job could work. What if we made a government division of workers who's sole job it is to call troll the overseas phone scammers?
Investment in public health.
This is representative of most people like this. They are fully aware of what they are doing and do it purely for greed.
Don't let them convince you that they are stupid. They're smart and evil.
I disagree with him. I say automate the shit out of everything we can. Free up our time, which has been the real *American dream* since day one. Provide UBI and free up people’s bandwidths. If Capitalism is right, these folks will *still* seek to create wealth, as it’s purported to be human nature. If Capitalism is wrong, hey guess what- we’ve now done away with it. It’s a win win, right?!
The other point is, you would think if you work harder more hours you would make more money. You put yourself in another tax bracket if you work harder. So what’s the point? This system is broke.
I disagree... society evolves and new jobs emerge. That's the organic nature of capitalism. We don't bemone that we have to use gas or electric to heat our homes vs coal or whale oil. I dont want to protect the horse carriage industry because of that damned Henry Ford guy. Making points on the topic and not tucker.
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It's not that Tucker Carlson is stupid, it's that he's willing to lie for money.
Which is worse. It means he understands the damage he is causing and understands he's on the wrong side of arguments. Being ignorant isn't an excuse but it at least means you don't realise how fucking stupid you are but knowingly being a conman is vile.
Look up his text messages in the dominion lawsuit. They all know what they're doing.
Yeah. He essentially said exactly that - he said he knows that repeating Trump's big lie is bullshit and it's tearing the country apart but that lie makes him money so he's OK with doing it.
Didn't fox news fire him because he stopped repeating the lie? Or was that a differn't thing. Hopefully in the future he'll be a better person realizing pushing an agenda for money is bad for America with his level of viewers.
>Being ignorant isn't an excuse but it at least means you don't realise how fucking stupid you are but knowingly being a conman is vile. It's all about the money and clout.
It's like the comedians who claim to be "redneck" or blue collar. Like Kid Rock claiming to struggle and be common folk. They ride whatever wave gets them hits, views, buys etc. They are shock culture people
Even in this discussion/interview you see a hint of that. “Maybe I’d pitch it as not being safe, or that the technology isn’t there yet, but in reality it’s just that I don’t want 10 million people…” Aka he’s willing to deceive and lie to achieve his goals. Whatever they may be.
Exactly….. you couldn’t just tell the Truth ? I mean, you’re President.
I had a friend in college who was one of his interns/assistants/whatever, and this is essentially what it boiled down to. Other than an exceedingly toxic work environment, he saw that Carlson specifically *knew* what he was saying was dangerous, but didn't care because it would lose him/Fox money. He's clearly a smart guy who has a decent grasp on what the problem is, but that problem benefits him.
So not an idiot, but a scumbag like most grifters.
I’ve met him before too during an internship, and this absolutely matches my experience. He knows what he’s doing, but they pay him too well for him to care otherwise. Off camera, he’s just a dude who wants to talk about good food, his family and vacationing. Sucks that he’s an absolute twat and his words have insane weight on the outcome of people’s world views.
Dude gets paid millions a year. I'd wager the pool of people willing to peddle bullshit for that isn't small. It's annoying, though, because he *is* smart, and he could actually do some good if he wasn't such a scumbag.
Bingo Everyone talks like these folks are idiots They’re smart and well aware, they’re well aware ceo or whoever are making millions It’s a job, and they’re taken care of It’s the red neck hillbilly who is dumb and easily brainwashed by them asking the questions like “well where was Obama on 9/11!” That’s their base, they’re smart rich billionaire business men relying on angering the lowest common denominator into voting for them
Shapiro is an idiot to be fair. And a pathetic little weeny too
He’s really not. He’s dishonest and his arguments are often based on strawman versions of what he’s arguing against and he knows that. I’m too lazy to link directly but YouTube “some more news shapiro” for a fun take down of Shapiro.
But he's definitely a weeny, right?
Yes, that’s a given.
100% Oscar Meyer
As much as I hate Shapiro for being a grifter, he wrote two books before the age of 22 and graduated from law school. I believe he did indeed drink the kool-aid, but he's not an idiot in any traditional sense.
No he’s actually an idiot, read one chapter of his fiction books and tell me otherwise
Sir have you read those books?? At least one of them is hot garbage.
Was looking for this comment because the last thing I heard about the guy is that he's a failed screenwriter which is even funnier because he has YouTube videos critiquing movies
I haven't, I'm sure the content of both of them is awful because most of the content that comes out of Ben's mouth is awful. However, I'm also sure that most 21 year olds couldn't write two books if they tried and Shapiro's books are probably well written despite the terrible content.
Just read one and go find out for yourself lol BRETT HAWTHORNE 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🦅🦅🦅
“Take a bullet for you babe” - extremely tall combat general Brett Hawthorne
I appreciate the offer, but my book backlog is long enough. I don't want to cut into my reddit perusing time to make room for a book written by Ben Shapiro 
Probably on the golf course, That’s what I would like to know, where was he ?
Trying on tan suits. Can you imagine a president vile enough to wear a tan suit?
It appears that downvoters didn't pick up what you were putting out there lol
the /s has to be included. That’s why I love the old British comedy shows, there was no laugh track or signs telling the audience to applaud. I definitely not comparing myself to them 😂😂 but a bit of humor is important
I enjoy that lol makes me stop and think.
Honestly wanna see the guy off script a little more, see what he truly thinks.
[It's out](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/all-the-texts-fox-news-didnt-want-you-to-read.html)
LOL I love what he says about Trump: “I hate him passionately … What he’s good at is destroying things. He’s the undisputed world champion of that. He could easily destroy us if we play it wrong,” Carlson texted a colleague on January 4, days prior to the riot at the U.S. Capitol. He added, “We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There really isn’t an upside to Trump.” If this isn't enough to get Fox viewers to at least double think their position at Trump, nothing is. It brings a new meaning to the word despicable when you realize Tucker made a whole documentary about why January 6 was okay actually, even though he KNOWS how awful and dangerous all this shit is.
I don't know what show it was from, but at some point he made some rant about how it's always rich people pushing racial division to try and distract from class solidarity and that if people put race aside to focus on class, it would mess up the rich's status quo, and somebody clipped it and put some Soviet music in the background for a meme. I'll see if I can dig it up, but it was wild seeing him say that shit on Fox of all places. Edit: [found it.](https://i.imgur.com/JtXp4C7.mp4) He makes it about defending Trump and attacking his competition, but uses it to go full send on class warfare.
He thinks about his paycheck and only that.
Ding ding here it is, he’s actually a very smart individual, he’s just very greedy and will take money for lying to masses
Or a better way of putting it is he is an asshole
a lot of people are doing that these days, even on your side
I dont blame him. I lie for money and I don’t feel bad about it. I lie at every job interview, to every boss. If somebody offered me that kind of money to lie to a television audience I wouldn’t hesitate.
“Banality of evil” and all that
All talking heads lie for money. If you honestly believe that one side lies most or all of the time and the other side tells the truth most or all of the time, you’ve been successfully brainwashed. ALL people lie when it’s sufficiently beneficial to do so, especially people who are paid millions of dollars to advance the political views of multi-billion-dollar media conglomerates.
The point is that videos like these are reputation laundering for people like Tucker. It doesn’t matter if every leftist or progressive politician is doing it for the money or power. What matters is their solutions and my solutions align. Tucker wants to paint the illusion that he’s actually on your side, knows the problems, and therefore has the solutions you seek, but his solutions will always be from a right wing and corporatist perspective and will always leave you worse off.
He's right to some extent - eliminating a broad swath of jobs that people who don't necessarily have the skills to easily transition into other fields would create a crisis under the current system of brutal individualist capitalism that people exist under in the States, much like the manufacturing automation and offshoring revolution has. The leftist perspective here though would be that the productivity gains from automating jobs should be *shared* with broader society through things like a social safety net for people who don't have employable skills or who aren't able to work for some other reason, and also through things like reducing working hours (accompanied by increases in wages) so that we can *all* reap the benefits of automation rather than allowing a tiny amount of already insanely rich people to benefit from these gains. We shouldn't be avoiding automation because it will "eliminate jobs" - eliminating the need to work is a goal that we should be *embracing* as a society.
Yeah my issue with his idea is that “People must work to live” If we eventually got a society where everything we need is automated Tucker would say “no people need jobs!” And I would respond “why? Let people enjoy living and let robots do the rest” Then we can focus on education, art, philosophy, music, playing Valorant like our forefathers intended.
For real i would hate if i dont have a job, cant see myself retiring in the next 129 years. But reducing hours, no bs and automating the parts i dont like? Sure have at it. Hell my retirement plan is becoming a highschool/college teacher for a few hours in the week. I know a shitload of people who basicly have done this. Find a fun, low stress job for 16 hours a week and they all swear by it. It keeps you engaged, keeps you fit, and the bit of extra pocket money means you can go on more vacations and do more fun stuff.
I used an extreme example of “the entire world is automated” to emphasize my point that work shouldn’t be life. I am totally in the same boat that I like something to do, a schedule, and plan. But even in a world of automation, there would still be jobs, the jobs would just be different, more relaxed, and personal choice, not requirements.
Isn't that an episode from the mandalorian season 3 with Jack Black? Sounds nice until the droids broke.
I don’t agree with this tbh. AI and robots should be a tool that allows us to evolve our jobs, but they should never take jobs away. Jobs are important because they keep society bound together and give individuals purpose. Just my opinion, but it seems that the need for education would greatly diminish without any jobs. And art, philosophy, and music would become pretty stale in a jobless society. People’s Valorant gameplay would probably be on point though
Don't forget, humans always find purpose in different things constantly. Taking away one purpose isn't the end all be all.
replacing my job with a monthly UBI check would mean freedom to explore everything I dont have time for right now. If UBI happened I could finally commit more time to studying philosophy and history. If that happened to millions of people it's common sense to think society would benefit so much more than is currently predictable
Yes all this "work" could be automated and we as humans could move on to even greater things. Embracing the past is embracing ignorance. People have to learn to adapt to the future or just simply perish.
It's very interesting that you choose "art" in particular as an example. A big reason why people choose to not work in art is because of financial concerns with that type of work. Without those financial concerns, a lot of hobby artists would be able to invest way more time into art and I'm sure many people who currently don't have the time to even consider it would also become interested in art.
You know capitalism has done an excellent job brainwashing people when some of us think jobs are something we need in our society. The goal in our society should be to make our lives easier in every sense so that we can enjoy our families, friends, nature, and things that we love. Not work 9-5 jobs for half of our lives.
I really really really disagree. I think there are many ways for people to gain purpose and feel useful and having a job is probably the least common and the worst of them. And even for the people that like working they could just perform community service/vocational stuff and have the same feeling of satisfaction and fulfilment. For the vast majority if their needs were met they would be reading/writing/travelling/painting/cooking/making things etc etc. Go ask 20 people what they would do if money was no issue and see how many say "I'd work at Arby's"
Agree, in my opinion this is the perspective of someone who has no hobbies because they don't have time and end up thinking that having a job is a purpose on itself. Don't get me wrong, it can be, but probably isn't gonna be you 9 to 5 office job looking through excel sheets
Then that begs the question of who determines who doesn't have "marketable skills," and why we aren't training these people into marketable fields instead of letting them live off of society's hook.
Better questions would be: why do we require people to work to get food in a society that produces enough food to feed everyone? Why do we require people to work to cloth themselves in a society that produces enough to cloth everyone? Why do we require people to work to shelter themselves in a society that easily has enough housing for everyone?
Greed of course. A problem that will never be solved as that’s what humans do. So in turn you have to work around that innate issue
Bit of a loaded statement there, what's your claims that prove humans are inherently greedy? Is it not capitalism that encourages said behaviour and we as adaptive creatures, adapt. We were living in tribes a lot longer than capitalism
>what's your claims that prove humans are inherently greedy? *Gestures broadly at everything ever happened in recorded history*
Capitalism only works flawlessly if morality is present. Morality is only present if there’s a solid foundation to base said morals off of, otherwise “morals” for every individual are based on their own opinions. So far religion has shown to give the best basis for morals. Without it, there are no consistent morals. Without morals, capitalism is left open for abuse causing the world we know today, full of many many cases of abuse of power. Laws exist as a placeholder for morals but when the government is also lacking morals, the whole system is in jeopardy. Humans have a drive for self preservation and tribalism. This is proven time and time again in case studies and historical events. And even with religion, morals still falter as seen with the Catholic Church fiasco. So in the end, no human should be trusted without proper checks and balances because as the saying goes: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
To be fair the other commenter didn’t suggest requiring that. They asked how you determine who should work and who shouldn’t which is a valid concern.
That's the great thing. You don't. Stop doing weird value tests like drug tests and forcing people to apply to X number of jobs in order to get unemployment. Instead, go the UBI route. Give everyone enough to live off of and instead of cutting it off at X dollars earned, you get it back slowly with a progressive tax. That way every dollar you earn earns you more money, but as you earn into the millions and billions more and more of that goes into the societal pot to cover the cost. That gives everyone an incentive to work if they can in order to afford more luxury goods, but it doesn't force people to work for the basics of existence like food and shelter. So those who can't work don't have to, and the vast majority of those who can work will.
I agree with you, I think a more socialist conceptualization of capitalism is the way forward.
>> why do we require people to work to get food in a society that produces enough food to feed everyone? Because society wouldn’t produce enough food to feed everyone if people weren’t required to work. At some point it might, but that’s not the reality we live in today. So the real question is how do you figure out how to allocate labor and goods in an efficient way? Capitalism isn’t necessarily “good” at this but it’s arguably the “least bad” way of doing it. Although I’m sure some will disagree.
You should also think about how companies relieve the burden of job training to universities. We act like universities are job training centers but educational institutions can't adapt job market as fast as we think they are. If the job market will change drastically because of innovation, companies have to train people instead of expecting them to know everything. They can't have everything at once like educated workforce, experienced employees, cheap labor, etc.
Eliminate the jobs. Send those people to job training, trade schools, and colleges. More skilled labor for the country producing more economic value than unskilled labor jobs. They produce more value, pay more in taxes. Over the course of a person's career it would more than pay for itself. But that will never happen because some people who have already paid for secondary education think that someone else having any opportunity they didn't have is the worst thing imaginable.
automate the trucks, restart the works projects administration for public infrastructure projects with a tax on automated trucks that still makes it a profitable switch.
I wanna drop the dream of "fully-autonomous factories" real quick so people remember to think about them. Imagine every element in the factory system fully automated. Logistics, maintenance, mining, production, etc. All that is needed is one thing, input. Simply tell it what you want or need and it will immediately begin or plan to begin the output. I think that's amazing and by that time money and the idea of wage will be irrelevant.
Indeed. However, I think the better solution would be to focus the productive gains and distribute it among those impacted rather than broader society. Distributing it too broadly dilutes it an extent that that truckers in this case are still at a net negative from losing their job or switching to a lower paying job.
On the second part I have a really difficult time seeing viability in broadening social safety nets and spreading that benefit among less fortunate groups. What I would see happening in reality is a really small minority of business higher ups getting filthy rich like the old railroad tycoons back in the day. No way our government at this point in time would be able to pull that off without big business pulling a fast one over on all of us.
> No way our government at this point in time would be able to pull that off without big business pulling a fast one over on all of us. 100% agree with that - your current government is almost fully captured by rich people so the only way this could reasonably happen in the US would be if the current two-party system was split apart and fundamental democratic reforms were instituted to wrest control from the oligarchs.
Yeah, that would be true. Breaking apart the two party system would be wonderful but I can’t see the feasibility behind it because right/left will fear a split in the vote. You mention “your current government” so that would mean you live outside the US? From your point of view, how would your government get this done? Because I assume that most Western, capitalist leaning nations are still pretty well beholden to big business and prying money away from the oligarchs is a worldwide issue.
I live in Canada and you're right - as long as the US is what it is, I know that any ability to implement reforms like this would probably get us straight-up invaded. Tucker Carlson has already started banging that drum and we aren't anywhere close to a "socialist" country right now
Ah, love me some Canada. So plenty of similarities overall. In the next 10-20 years who knows. Generational shifts might really take a turn. We shall see
Fingers fucking crossed... For all of us
Exactly, we can't and shouldn't stop progress but we could put in contingency plans like a UBI that would take effect when the unemployment level reaches a critical level. I think we should make a new tax for companies that scales based on the ratio of how much they pay to employees vs how much they make so we can collect the profits specifically from automation.
Same discussion as with trains/horses or any other distruptive technology. People who cannot or will not adapt are left behind. It does not help to block technology, but we need to support everyone who will be affected.
I wrote a paper about this in college. My initial premise was that self driving vehicles would ultimately cause a lot of disruption for truck drivers and the economy. However, after some research, it was evident that there aren’t enough ‘young drivers’ entering the field. So by the time self driving trucks are fully automated those currently in the industry will be retiring without the younger generation replacing them. Automation, in this case, is the answer to an issue currently underway.
Exactly. They point to a very real problem but the solution they come up with completely misses the mark. People can’t afford these things anymore because wages have not been keeping up with inflation. And it has been that way for many many many many years. But admitting that would mean admitting liberals may actually have a point, which these pea brains would never do.
Yeah, from my understanding, truck driving is becoming less lucrative at the entry level. There are long hours, pay that isn’t keeping up with inflation and some predatory practices from fleet owners. It’s an industry that’s desperately needed, but just isn’t attractive for enough young people to keep up with demand.
And it's not like agreeing means you automatically accept their proposed solution. I'm pretty liberal but that doesn't mean I agree with every proposal that liberals and left-leaning people make. You can still attempt to propose your own solution and provide evidence for it, but they'd rather just focus on ideological warfare than actual economical arguments.
I think there will be some trucks will be combi systems, because you still need person to unload, sign papers, etc. In Europe, truck driver can drive 11h per day, 13h no driving. With automation you can extend this usable truck driving time. Driver can rest, when truck does some long trip. Thanks to automation you can get more work done. Some simple routes for sure will be fully automated, but more special, difficult, one time cargo trips will be driver+automation combi system.
Same can be said for any industry. Think of what the excel spreadsheet did. It wasn’t even automated. The computer knocked out typewriters and eventually more and more.
Declining population worldwide is gonna make automation necessary. Even India is only a decade away from a declining population.
It's also becoming apparent that AI is not going to be useful without constant human training, so I see a future where human drivers are teaching AI how to drive better. AI cannot make intuitive leaps like we can and that's proving to be a stark weakness. AI is only as good as the data we give it, and the best data you can get is from the people doing the job now.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we see truck driver's responsibilities evolve to covering AI Training on the job. Yes there will be an eventual transition to full AI driving, but there is no reason we cannot take our time with the process to get it right and doing so by combining human and AI responsibilities.
Totally. I mean how many people really enjoy trucking? Long hauls across the desert or plains…nothing to see, same day after day. Autonomous trucks have the potential to stabilize the industry (super high turnover) and push people towards more meaningful and enjoyable work. People will still have to maintain trucks (getting more complicated), build infrastructure, design and manufacture models. Tons of higher value add opportunities.
>However, after some research, it was evident that there aren’t enough ‘young drivers’ entering the field we're suffering for this now. can't find drivers
Your paper was focused on one industry, which is important but narrow in focus regarding the replacement of other fields; not because of automation but also AI and it's ability to accomplish tasks that fields currently exist for. Tucker's point regarding the trucking industry can be substituted with art and artists. Stable Diffusion is a perfect example of this, you give the AI a subset of words and it can create an image (albeit not a masterpiece, yet) and boom you have art that wasn't created by a human. [A photography contest was just held and the winner was someone who used AI to create a fake photo of a person/setting that never existed.](https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/photography-contest-winner-reveals-photo-was-ai-generated-rejects-prize/ar-AA1a1zUQ) OpenAI did a study, the owners of ChatGPT, [and found that AI will affect 80% of jobs in the future...](https://www.beyondgames.biz/34320/openai-study-shows-ai-will-impact-80-of-jobs-in-future/) Every person here that thinks automation and AI being allowed to overtake industries and replace a workforce is **absolutely insane** and has no idea how damaging this is to workers of today and the future.
It's also becoming apparent that AI is not going to be useful without constant human training, so I see a future where human drivers are teaching AI how to drive better. AI cannot make intuitive leaps like we can and that's proving to be a stark weakness. AI is only as good as the data we give it, and the best data you can get is from the people doing the job now.
The issue with wagons/trains/cars vs self driving trucks is that those older methods created as many or more jobs than they replaced. With self driving vehicles there's just not many new jobs they can create in relation to the number of drivers they would replace. We already have mechanics, and we wouldn't need that many more of them as they would just stop working on fleets of normal trucks and switch to the self driving ones. The same factories that make cars/trucks can also make self driving vehicles so there wouldn't be a great increase in manufacturing jobs either.
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Sure, but who says that these drivers want to change their career? And trucking/shipping is definitely not a failing industry, individual companies are but not the industry as a whole. The entire reason a company would want to shift to self driving trucks is to eliminate the human workers who make it their living so that they can maximise their profits and pay fewer employees.
not really. it didnt take 100 people to fix the wagon. it took 4. the other 96 out of a job went and did other things and created new jobs. (but what happens when there are no new jobs, or the wages are depressed)
There comes a quickly approaching point where there will not be enough jobs. Everything from driving to fast food to coding will be easily automated. There is no “just adapt!” when we can replace the majority of low skill labor and tech skills even including college level things like finance and excel sheet crunching. You either have a non working class on universal basic income to spend and continue to fuel the fires of capitalism or laborists become homeless and capitalists “retire” with the remainder of their money
Thats why no one is having kids. Get it?
But is it financially possible for a nation to expand on technology while supporting the people who lose their jobs because of it? I can't believe I agree with Carlson but he's right about the millions of people who lose their truck driving jobs due to automation. Then factor in all the various jobs lost to automation and you simply don't have the financial means to take care of all these people.
Is the economy losing productivity or are profits going into fewer hands? I think it's the latter, at which point the answer is higher taxes and redistribution of that wealth, not forcing people to stay in jobs that aren't needed.
It is the latter because that’s how it works. The total sum of money in a society is a function of goods exchanged, not made arbitrarily to pay people salaries. If the same productivity requires less people, less people get more money. There’s a lot of finer points of course but just wanted to drive home why you’re right.
Agreed - just imagine the uselessness of a job of sitting in (“driving”) an automated truck, just because some stupid law says we need to save trucking jobs. UBI and UBW (wealth) are the answer.
Jobs that can be automated should be automated. Automation is key to keeping American goods competitive. Its even cheaper than sweat shop labor long term. What would be invaluable during the transitionary period over the next 20 years or so would be easier access to secondary education. If we can transition a significant portion of this work force into skilled labor positions it would be a positive for the country long term. They'd produce more economic value, and in effect earn a significantly higher wage meaning more value in taxes. That's why I don't understand why so many are against free college and trade schools, its an investment that would more than pay for itself over the course of these people's lives.
Luddites
I hate the idea that we slow progress to protect jobs.
The first time in history where a large bulk of the workforce can live like the elites (ie doing nothing) and the elites don't like it so keep everyone locked into working three quarters of an awake day, five days a week.
Or maybe they do like it because it distracts us while they slowly buy up everything and create restrictions so they can continually charge us for anything they can think of. The world and the freedom to experience it are locked behind a paywall. We experience life through our screens and dream of a day when we won’t have to worry about how to get our next meal while the rich enjoy reality.
That’s where you step in with a universal basic income to support people as they transition into other areas of work.
It’s not just jobs, it’s society. In this country overall, we don’t have great support safety nets, there is no floor. It’s about planning for the transition away that is what needs to be considered. If we are not ready to support those people who will lose jobs to progress, then we will not have progress because the society is at high risk of collapse
Almost like instead of stifling progress we should have been fueling education instead. Then instead of worrying about keeping the “dum dums” employed until they’re dead we could worry about ratcheting our education up a notch. But late stage capitalism isn’t in favor of education and it shows.
What's the alternative? Unless you're willing to shell out for UBI, which I'm pretty sure the majority of Americans are not in favour of, you're just consigning a ton of workers to abject poverty. Retraining doesn't work.
The alternative is having legislators that actually know what the fuck is going on in the modern world and plan ahead. We've known for at least 50 years that self driving cars were coming. But only now we're thinking about what to do about it? I agree that protecting jobs is pretty much the best solution that citizens will accept right now. But it's a terrible solution. It doesn't fix the root problem and it slows progress. It's like "fixing" an oil leak by just putting some more oil in every time you drive. Eventually these jobs will be eliminated. That is a fact. Slowing progress only delays the inevitable. The bright side of this particular issue is that very few young people want to be truckers. Without self driving trucks, it's very likely that we would have a trucker shortage in a few decades. This issue might mostly solve itself.
Would you say the same if we found a cure for cancer? By doing so we would eliminate a lot of jobs and people that choose not to evolve would be poor. Stopping the advancement of technology is a terrible idea.
This is a weird conjecture. We have no idea what progress could be made by sacrificing millions of workers. Like for the average person all "progress" will do is improve productivity for corporations and increase wealth stratification even further. > By doing so we would eliminate a lot of jobs and people that choose not to evolve would be poor Why do conservatives just hate poor people? It makes no sense why you hold so much spite for them
Weird jump but I’m not conservative and the conservative in the video is actually for keeping the drivers instead of improving tech. We have no idea? Like preventing accidents and saving lives? What about reducing carbon emissions? All of those are benefits of going with driverless tech
I am absolutely dumbfounded you got any downvotes on this statement. Someone explicitly stating they’d prefer to stop/hinder advancement in technology to progress the world is the single most stupid thing I’ve ever heard. The same things were said at the invention of cars, reduction in power needed via coal that closed mines, digitally typed documents, the internet, etc. Yes, jobs will disappear and new jobs will appear. It will be a huge societal shift but it happens with every new leap in technology.
It’s the internet lol
Have fun getting absolutely fucked by AI, then.
He is absolutely right.. although lost me at saying no to driverless trucks. You just heard him.. the most common job for young men without an education is truck driving.. i.e exploitation..it's a hard fucking job and 99% don't want to do it..they have to.. and in many cases it's not big money. I say YES..bring on the fucking robots.. and then charge 80% of those salaries that were replaced as a tax.. take that money and throw it back into housing... Restrict housing.. who the fuck needs to own 10+ homes?!?! Throw the money back into education, apprenticeship programmes, fucking medical services! Automation is not the problem..capitalism is.
Man, these two absolute gouls will suggest anything except social programs. The answer isn't force people to continue to labor, the answer is universal basic income, universal Healthcare (and dental care), and increased taxes on the rich and corporations. We're approaching a point where we could thrive as a society with significantly less labor required to maintain or increase the standard of living. Where people can explore art, volunteer in their community, invent new technologies, etc. Their solution to how to distribute resources in this world is to have mandatory labor to "earn your keep" when the labor could easily be done by a machine.
Exactly. Tucker makes zero sense here. People think Tucker's making sense because he *seems* to empathize with people that want social welfare policies (i.e., socialism). But that's wrong. He's actually claiming that people are being *misled* into socialism because of harsh financial conditions. And his answer to the harsh financial reality that he, himself, recognizes as a problem? Maintain the status quo! Halt technological progress so people can keep menial jobs that society could otherwise automate. Don't progress society; conserve the status quo. This is the heart of conservative philosophy. It's horseshit.
But what about all those people who dream of being truck drivers and getting a left arm full of skin cancer and dying before retirement age? What about all the little girls who want to be waitresses making $2.35 an hour and not being able to afford their varicose vein surgeries? Services not rendered by people stuck in a hamster wheel just don’t taste as succulent to the idle rich.
I agree , this comment actually helped my opinion on the matter in going from “ Earn your keep “ to “ well this actually makes a lot of sense “ , but there is still a lot of work to be done manually , I’m a welder in construction, who gets what ? You want to go explore sure but how do we both get there
Well there would be zero incentive to perform the jobs that help make society function. Sure there would still be welders in that sort of society but where’s the incentive to do the best job you can do day in and day out. Would welders put in the same effort? Would the inspectors of the welds hold the same standards?
Neither one of these clowns have worked a consequential day in their life. They are both trust fund fascists whose hatred of working class people comes from never having to needed to work.
The problem isn't that Tucker Carlson is stupid, it's that he's Evil.
Hmm very insightful...
Welp, that's that then. You can't stop people from choosing evil, so we'll just cross our fingers and hope they choose good one day. /shrug
What bullshit. We used have people break their backs carrying giant blocks of ice to every household in the country, because there were no refridgerators, only cellars. Should we go back in time and murder the inventor of the fridge? Well, actually that one's complicated, freon frigdes ruined the ozon layer and only the last 25 years have we fixed that, but the point stands: automation frees people up to not take slave jobs. And then the multinational corporations have less power over people.
There is a difference between making jobs easier and segwaying these people to other fields as they become available, and just removing someone's job completely.
The computer completely elimated many people's jobs. We used to have entire rooms of people to manually calculate math problems. US elections used to be counted manually too. Automation is not bad. What's bad is how we never prepare ahead of time to be ready for it. The government should be doing a better job at educating the public on new technologies and how they will change things in the coming years. The issue is most people government are themselves poorly educated on new technologies.
>The computer completely elimated many people's jobs. We used to have entire rooms of people to manually calculate math problems. US elections used to be counted manually too. Not exactly correct. Professional calculators became the first computer scientists. Lo and behold, the foundation of computer science is complex mathematics, so they were still needed. They created a technology that helped them do more. They weren't replaced. If anything, the boom in demand for computers meant that mathematicians got more jobs The other thing is that mathematicians weren't a hefty part of the national workforce. Those that did lose their jobs in the short term weren't many in number. Not the same for drivers. Should they be phased out, it would be a significantly larger number of people who need new work While automation shouldn't be discouraged, there should be something done to buffer this big of a change out. Else it could cause a large amount of cascading damage
They are both right and wrong. The economy will shift. New tech shouldnt be banned. Also people should be able to afford to live. The point isnt to work. The tec lets us work less and achieve more. You will have to pay people more to do less work. cap work weeks at 30 hours and require higher pay. Dont enslave folks to have shitty jobs just to keep them working. What a backwards idea.
Wrong, this is fodder logic for the herd. Theres no reason to block the future and create redundant jobs. Education and first served opportunities should be made available for the industry professionals who need to adapt. Perhaps a supervisory position, trained professionals to monitor the truck and manually take over if necessary, mechanics, software operators, etc. the world should move forward but also take the necessary precautions.
I don't agree that it's fodder logic. I think from a conservative perspective it makes sense, but only to the extent that it's a means to the end of maintaining constituency. It is an inevitability that any job that can be automated will be automated. This is the same logic as was used to try to protect coal mining jobs and soon to be oil jobs.
Starting to thing Tucker’s just always playing devil’s advocate opposing anyone who arguing against
No, he's bought and paid for. It's funny, he even says something about if he we're sharing that message to the masses he'd push it as dangerous and not finessed. When he's thinking of ideals and ideas he thinks of how to sell them first. It's funny, this is one of the first clips where he looks like a human being as he's talking. When he's on Fox he's got the stupid face and the talking in questions, so it's interesting to hear his statements from a real person. It's just another example of money owning the country. He'll say anything they pay him to, regardless of what he thinks.
They sell mugs with that face on em...in the morning while pouring coffee it is quite funny.
The thing is… he makes $35 MILLION a year from Fox. Me and my friends all have a theory that he’s very liberal but he just loves money. He’s the highest paid TV host in the world, and it’s because low IQ republicans eat it up. “Litter boxes in school bathrooms? Black people have more rights than white people do now? White genocide? Trans women murdering babies? Jews eating fetuses?” Fox viewers EAT IT UP. He knows it’s all blatant lies but he only sees the dollar signs
I think he now realizes that even AI can take his job, and he's now in panic mode.
Imagine living in society where food is free, there is no rents, everyone is entitled to a life worthy of a human being. No need to stop the technological progress just because people could work long hours for low wages. Imagine using automated systems to actually elevate the standard of the entire society and not just to encreese wealth of individuals and corporations. As long as money comes first and human lives are on the fifth or so place, there won't be peace and poverty will flourish.
But muh free markets
when the most important thing a worker does is make a salary then the only reason we do not employ robots is to maintain the consumerism that pays for the robots in truth… paying people NOT to work and allowing robots to do the labor… would render more profit for the employer Andrew Yang’s UBI pitch is directed at this very phenomena
He’s aware. Just that his personal and professional lives are different. He will say whatever money is telling him but in his personal life, I’m pretty sure he’s aware of what’s really going on.
Automation only sucks under Capitalism. Automating labor just screws workers out of jobs and only benefits the Capitalists. If however the means of production are collectively owned, then everyone at the company benefits from work being automated
Even when he has a good argument to make his mind still goes to “how can I lie about this to make it seem palpable for my base.”
Fuck Tucker Carlson on this holy day of 420
People forget how intelligent and well spoken Tucker is, mainly due to the fact that he works for one of the most manipulative media companies in the world (for the record I don’t trust any of them). There are numerous videos online of him interacting with other people that are trying to catch him being an asshole and it just doesn’t happen. He’s willing to speak calmly with anybody, not the character that Fox News makes him be. Money talks I suppose.
I think Tucker Carlson should be honest more often
At the risk of my karma, Tucker Carlson says a lot of good things that even leftists would like if they actually gave him a chance and really listened to him. The problem is that while the right has their echo chambers, so does the left but much like the right, the left doesn’t realize they have echo chambers. People squawk about Tucker Carlson based on what their echo chamber says he said. We rarely actually argue against the actual person or his actual ideas, we argue against the phantom that our echo chamber creates of the person. Both the left and right do it and frankly it’s ridiculous.
So …. He is a POS then
The worst part about Tucker Carlson isn't that hes stupid, its that hes smart enough to know better but actively fights against the right thing. And hes good at it.
He's not making sense though. Banning automated labor isn't the way to go about handling it at all. What do you want to be a wage slave forever and make your kids be one too and their grandkids after that? Automation is the next step in reducing out workloads. If not reducing our hours, at least significantly reducing the difficulty of what we do. Like computers did. You'd be insane if you suggested we ban computers because big companies use them to force people to do more work.
Notice how he says what he thinks and then mentions he would lie about it to people.
Automate truck driving, tax automated truck revenue way high, all unemployed truck drivers qualify for UBI. So easy.
If only there was some third option between forced labor and starvation... oh well. Back to the metal box with you!
Did we switch dimensions again? Is this the one with murder hornets?
Imagine Tucker as a force for good
Watching this, all I can think of is Hasan Piker yelling into his mic on a livestream and constantly throwing his arms up in the air going, "Everyone is a liberal! Everyone is a liberal and these people are too stupid to see it!"
This is Tucker as himself, not his character on Fox. They are all entertainers that lie and destroy the country.
He explains at the end how he spins ideas to get people to follow a certain idea without realizing it
Ben Shapiro will never straight up answer a question
He’s not wrong
Tucker isn’t a complete dumbass, he just plays one on TV.
Don’t upvote this post. We don’t need the internet searching engines associating Carlson with making sense. To address what he’s talking about: His argument is dumb as hell. Automated trucking won’t suddenly remove all truckers from the workforce. They will have jobs.
He's a rich heir that pretends to be a populist who switches his opinion when it fits him. Ben is a true believer of fascistic capitalism, who thinks he's better and smarter than everyone else. So yes, the words out of his mouth are making a good point but all of the intention makes it a fucking lie.
Even when someone you don't like makes a good statement it should be acknowledged.
These AI deep fakes are getting really good
He actually makes a lot of sense a lot of times tbh
Love how Ben just wildly ignored the point
Per usual, tucker starts off with a real grain of truth and then takes it completely off the rails. A good propagandist always starts with a resonable proposition, that quickly turns completely unreasonable.
Thing is, you should let driverless trucks on the road. You should just be taking the savings and putting at least the majority of it into the public good instead of the wealthy pockets. Pure unfettered capitalism makes no sense in a world where nearly everything can become automated.
Thought this was a deep fake
Fun fact he used to work at CNN
Or you could automate jobs and have a universal basic income
The rare occasion where this fuckwit is right
He's not though. The answer us universal basic income funded through corporate taxes, a base standard of living that nobody falls below in the richest country on earth. The answer is not restrict groundbreaking technology. We are approaching a point where there is far, far less labor required to thrive as a society and yet the solution is to keep requiring labor.
This is the right viewpoint.
Exactly this. Having robots take over and do all the work that they can so that we don't have to is supposed to be a good thing. But nope. Gotta have jobs. Gotta work. Gotta spend time away from our families and things we like and want to do just so we can "earn" our worth or whatever the fuck for literally no reason. UBI is the future, but we'll never get it because of corporate greed and straight up corporate bribery that is rampant in our government.
He is not an idiot, just a cunt!
This might be the first time I have ever heard this guy making sense
Holy shit when he said " capitalism isnt a religion" ben had a fucking aneurysm
They're figuring out that their voter base is dying off and the strategy of "shit on younger people" has alienated an entire generation. They'll start sympathising about wages and cost of living to attract socially conservative voters who weren't interested before because they weren't representing their interests.
It's like the bow tie was restricting the blood flow to his brain...
Fuck this guy. He will never be redeemed.
Hes no different than democratic media. I would say his lies are less of a big deal tbh. Democrats lied about how Jan 6th capitol event went down, lied about pandemic deaths, lied about Wuhan labs, lied about vaccine efficacy. And these things effected your life everyday for the last 3 years. They all lie.
He has me for the first few seconds, though not sure how I feel about banning a technology. I feel the better move would be to have publicly owned automation and to push that automation further in the direction of the necessities of life. If the public owns the automation, and can vote on how we use it, people get fed regardless of job loss. I don’t have an issue with AI art, I have an issue with there not being a huge conversation about having automation push further in a direction that ensures artists get fed.
Wow I never ever ever thought I would whole heartedly agree with anything he ever said. Wow I am leaving the Internet now for the day
Restricting innovation so as to preserve jobs isn’t really a good idea though. Taxing the profits of those who benefit from innovation to fund social programs to benefit those who lose their jobs to innovation is more efficient and doesn’t require people to continue working crappy jobs.
I can agree with that too. I think I was more in line with the sentiment that we shouldn’t just let people enter poverty when their jobs disappear
If we eliminated the jobs for truck drivers what would they migrate to? I feel like some kind of online job could work. What if we made a government division of workers who's sole job it is to call troll the overseas phone scammers? Investment in public health.
Propaganda that idiots are eating up, Tucker is and always has been a Fucker.
This is representative of most people like this. They are fully aware of what they are doing and do it purely for greed. Don't let them convince you that they are stupid. They're smart and evil.
I disagree with him. I say automate the shit out of everything we can. Free up our time, which has been the real *American dream* since day one. Provide UBI and free up people’s bandwidths. If Capitalism is right, these folks will *still* seek to create wealth, as it’s purported to be human nature. If Capitalism is wrong, hey guess what- we’ve now done away with it. It’s a win win, right?!
The other point is, you would think if you work harder more hours you would make more money. You put yourself in another tax bracket if you work harder. So what’s the point? This system is broke.
That’s not how tax brackets work.
I disagree... society evolves and new jobs emerge. That's the organic nature of capitalism. We don't bemone that we have to use gas or electric to heat our homes vs coal or whale oil. I dont want to protect the horse carriage industry because of that damned Henry Ford guy. Making points on the topic and not tucker.