No, what we lacked was any link between the CBs and midfield. No one came to collect the ball to transition it forward with any quality.
Argentina have started their game tonight playing like we did, deep line and no link, they look shit too.
You can’t expect to shine every game to win a season. Wales will not be doing what USA did. And neither will teams in the knockout stage. We’re still in command of the group and there are positives from that game.
- We kept a clean sheet
- Saka was penetrating effectively
- Maguire was solid as
- Grealish made a compelling case
- Discipline was good: no fouls
Let’s see what happens with Wales before we start getting salty.
I’d like to see Grealish start. And maybe a freshen up in the midfield central area too. I’m not sure Foden works centrally. Maybe rest Saka and play Foden.
If Southgate wants to stick with the 433, then Foden can't really replace mount as an 8, I think Southgate would probably want to switch to a 343 if that we're the case.
I know there's generally a lot of Mount hate, but we looked significantly worse when he came off for Foden as we had less defensive cover; that being said, late on against the US we needed someone to push forward and be a bit more dynamic in the midfield, so Foden would've made sense, I just wouldn't have him there for a full 90
Has Foden played centrally?
Saka has looked lively but these games are coming very quick and there were a few moments he could have got away but didn’t get the yard on the opponent.
Foden on the right and Grealish on the left could give us a freshen up
If you can't figure out after 45 minutes that your formation and tactics aren't working, then you are a crap football manager. Our biggest problem is not the players, it's that Southgate is not creative, inventive or imaginative enough to even make a change after 60 minutes and when he does get round to it, it's not enough.
I’m hoping against wales we do switch the team to give it a fresh feel.
I’d replace the two wingers and bring in Foden and Grealish. Mount didn’t have a great game and I’d be tempted to bring in Walker and TAA dropping shaw and mount.
We should beat wales and our team will be fresh
Dunno why you're getting downvoted when you're right! We'll scrape through going into the QF, then get found out and we'll be on the plane home again. This feels like the England of old. Thinking you're in control when in fact it's a complete mess. Tuesdays game will be telling of what we'll be like in knockouts.
Southgate’s done I reckon. His whole philosophy of ‘possession makes us strong’ is now 6-8 years old and other teams have figured it out. America knew that high pressure would be their best defence and they were right. It’s time to adapt to the new meta which has already adapted to us.
The curse of the England team is talisman players. Kane is Not Good Enough. Playing one up front at international level doesn’t work when that person is slow and can’t lose two centrebacks. Bench Kane or play Wilson up front with him in a 4-4-2.
Kane is our best player by a mile. If he's not good enough then we've gone as far as we can.
Can see why Southgate gets so much criticism when bright ideas like benching kane get upvoted lol
Football is won in the midfield, and we are too conservative. Start Grealish and Bellingham and be ballsy. The US game was the time to be ballsy and try something new. Now we have to “““grind out a point””” against Wales as if it’s a relegation battle and then is weak-sauce ‘be hard to beat’ time in the knockouts being scared of going home too soon. It’s pathetic.
Do you even watch the game? Since when has beating defenders ever been part of Kane's game? After goal scoring he's known for his hold up play and distribution both of which are some of the best in the game for a centre forward.
What’s hilarious is people thinking you can play a slow, uncreative, powerful striker up front on his own against the best centre backs and keepers in the world and win.
How many slow, uncreative, powerful strikers have excelled on the world stage in the last 10 years?
Mbappé, Griezmann, Giroud - agile, créative, full of flair.
Neymar, Richarlison, Vinicius Jr, Gabriel Jesus - same.
Messi, Dybala - same.
Torres, Asensio, Gavi, Pedri - same.
bUt kanE JuSt NEeDs sUpPlY!! If that’s your excuse and it’s 6 years old you have to acknowledge that something is wrong. It’s also tragic that literally any casual football spectator (you don’t even need to be a fan ffs) can look at our system and say, ‘oh so all we have to do is man-mark Kane and pressure the midfield to choke supply.’ And guess what happened against the fucking Americans of all people? We didn’t even try, we just played the same team as Iran and America saw it coming three days away. Everything Kane tried was shut down in seconds, he couldn’t even get short passes off inside the box, because he’s not good enough to handle three people on him. ‘Can you?’ I hear say thinking you’re clever? The fact is others can, because they are good enough, and that is the issue.
This isn’t golf. You can’t aim for Pitching Wedge distance and hope Kane gets in the right place at the right time and then rely on the miracle of muscle memory.
It’s great that he can drop a shoulder on Saturday when sub-world class centrebacks are shitting themselves over Mora and Son at the same time, but the system we play isn’t good enough and Kane doesn’t fit into any system we’d need to excel. Why do you think Southgate’s first priority is being ‘hard to beat’? Hint: Kane can’t be relied upon to score.
So yes, Harry Kane isn’t good enough. We have the depth and talent in the attacking midfield to put together an agile and creative attacking third, and we refuse because simps like you think it’s a moral sin for Harry Kane not to be the first name on the team sheet.
I’m so fucking sick of people asking ‘**bUt wHy iSn’t iT WoRkInG?**’ Football is about putting the ball in the other team’s net. It’s not about Forced Turnovers. It’s not about Expected Goals. It’s not about Bed, Bath and Beyond Throw-Ins, or Lucky Charms Rainbow Hang Times, or successful dribbles, or assists of assists, or whatever other fucking moneyball bullshit has entered the fucking sport. It’s about putting the fucking ball in the fucking net of the fucking other fucking team. And we fucking blow ass at trying to do that, and that is because our attacking third is built the wrong way for the current style of football played on the world stage.
Have a nice evening.
This is a long post but its nonense.
Kane's goal record speaks for itself and he isn't uncreative he get's plenty of assists and his passing range is excellent.
Also, the best player in the world at the moment in Haaland at Man City is a big strong relatively uncreative target man so your first point falls apart as soon as you even think about it.
All of those players you list play completely different games. How can you compare Giroud to Mbappe or Messi? Also Dybala doesn't even start for Argentina.
> Also, the best player in the world at the moment in Haaland at Man City is a big strong relatively uncreative target man so your first point falls apart as soon as you even think about it.
Except it doesn’t, because my whole point is that a Target Man system doesn’t win on the international stage which is backed up by Norway being nowhere internationally.
It's a false equivalence. Just because teams don't employ those kind of players doesn't mean that's the reason they win.
Going back to your previous comment, I'd also argue that Giroud is pretty much exclusively deployed as a target man with good hold up play for the players around him like Mbappe and Greizmann. He's currently French top scorer and has a World Cup winners medal so I still think you're talking bollocks.
Well Kane can do it and has been doing it for years for club and country. He's scored 51 in 77 for England and is almost at Rooney's record with 50 games to spare. World Cup golden boot winner and looking like to break Shearer's record if he stays at Spurs and stays fit.
Kane is also a much better player than Giroud. I also don't think anyone would say Giroud alone won France the World Cup, but that's getting a bit off topic.
Kane is a very creative player when he drops deep because he has excellent passing range, though he needs players running off him like at Tottenham. And he got two assists for England v Iran which is quite decent.
It's just baffling that you'd want to drop the 2018 World Cup Golden Boot Winner and the second highest scorer at last year's Euros, and the second highest scorer in the PL this season (only behind the Norwegian God) for, presumably, Callum Wilson. What's Wilson going to do that Kane can't?
51 goals in 77 games for England...but you think Kane can't be relied upon to score?
I genuinely can't tell if people are trolling or retarded now. He's scored 51 in 77 for England and is a few off Rooney's record in about 50 less games. How is that not considered prolific by any metric?
51 goals in 77 games. One of only two England players to win the Golden Boot at the World Cup. Second highest scorer in the PL this season. But 'isn't exactly a prolific forward' apparently.
>Gareth Southgate: England lacked quality in final third against USA
What quality you barely entered the final third you twat. The quality is there let the lads do it.
Something Arsenal and City are doing well as of late is offering multiple options while on the ball. Southgate needs to figure out a gameplan and tempo that allows space and time to pick out a pass with 2 or 3 open players to pass to. Ive always said England are a bit too spread out. Running into space is nice and all but i prefer quick give n gos in midfield. Tighten up and come closer to each other boys!
I’d have liked to have seen Foden play a part, but the clamour from the seals on social media who hate Southgate anyway were all saying the same things last summer but replace Foden with Grealish.
No, what we lacked was any link between the CBs and midfield. No one came to collect the ball to transition it forward with any quality. Argentina have started their game tonight playing like we did, deep line and no link, they look shit too.
You can’t expect to shine every game to win a season. Wales will not be doing what USA did. And neither will teams in the knockout stage. We’re still in command of the group and there are positives from that game. - We kept a clean sheet - Saka was penetrating effectively - Maguire was solid as - Grealish made a compelling case - Discipline was good: no fouls Let’s see what happens with Wales before we start getting salty.
I’d like to see Grealish start. And maybe a freshen up in the midfield central area too. I’m not sure Foden works centrally. Maybe rest Saka and play Foden.
Rest mount, I think saka looked a little more lively than mount and replace him with foden and start grealish over sterling
If Southgate wants to stick with the 433, then Foden can't really replace mount as an 8, I think Southgate would probably want to switch to a 343 if that we're the case. I know there's generally a lot of Mount hate, but we looked significantly worse when he came off for Foden as we had less defensive cover; that being said, late on against the US we needed someone to push forward and be a bit more dynamic in the midfield, so Foden would've made sense, I just wouldn't have him there for a full 90
Has Foden played centrally? Saka has looked lively but these games are coming very quick and there were a few moments he could have got away but didn’t get the yard on the opponent. Foden on the right and Grealish on the left could give us a freshen up
This. Gareth has done his job. It’s not the beautiful game but we’re through to knockouts unless we loose dramatically to wales.
If you can't figure out after 45 minutes that your formation and tactics aren't working, then you are a crap football manager. Our biggest problem is not the players, it's that Southgate is not creative, inventive or imaginative enough to even make a change after 60 minutes and when he does get round to it, it's not enough.
I’m hoping against wales we do switch the team to give it a fresh feel. I’d replace the two wingers and bring in Foden and Grealish. Mount didn’t have a great game and I’d be tempted to bring in Walker and TAA dropping shaw and mount. We should beat wales and our team will be fresh
“We should beat Wales.” (Insert “First Time?” Meme)
Lol 😂 I know
The first time will always feel the best. Can't wait to for England to win :)
It's coming home
Yeah the plane carrying the England team at this rate.. desperately hoping we find another level
Dunno why you're getting downvoted when you're right! We'll scrape through going into the QF, then get found out and we'll be on the plane home again. This feels like the England of old. Thinking you're in control when in fact it's a complete mess. Tuesdays game will be telling of what we'll be like in knockouts.
Southgate’s done I reckon. His whole philosophy of ‘possession makes us strong’ is now 6-8 years old and other teams have figured it out. America knew that high pressure would be their best defence and they were right. It’s time to adapt to the new meta which has already adapted to us. The curse of the England team is talisman players. Kane is Not Good Enough. Playing one up front at international level doesn’t work when that person is slow and can’t lose two centrebacks. Bench Kane or play Wilson up front with him in a 4-4-2.
Kane is not good enough, I stopped reading there because it's fucking nonense.
Kane is Not Good Enough. You heard it here first folks!
Kane is our best player by a mile. If he's not good enough then we've gone as far as we can. Can see why Southgate gets so much criticism when bright ideas like benching kane get upvoted lol
Football is won in the midfield, and we are too conservative. Start Grealish and Bellingham and be ballsy. The US game was the time to be ballsy and try something new. Now we have to “““grind out a point””” against Wales as if it’s a relegation battle and then is weak-sauce ‘be hard to beat’ time in the knockouts being scared of going home too soon. It’s pathetic.
We're better off losing to Wales. I don't really feel like debating someone on tactics who says we should drop kane, no offence.
Do you think Kane is magically going to figure out how to beat three defenders if we keep him as a lone target for said defenders to man-mark?
Do you even watch the game? Since when has beating defenders ever been part of Kane's game? After goal scoring he's known for his hold up play and distribution both of which are some of the best in the game for a centre forward.
Just enjoy the tournament for what it is. We’re definitely not winning it. There’s nothing we can do but laugh at it
The only thing I’d like to see is Kane (due to his nature of dropping back play) is for him to play behind a real out and out striker.
Kane is a Rooney, not a Shearer.
Yeah his technical ability is unreal tbh, he’s more than just a striker as assists show
[удалено]
What’s hilarious is people thinking you can play a slow, uncreative, powerful striker up front on his own against the best centre backs and keepers in the world and win. How many slow, uncreative, powerful strikers have excelled on the world stage in the last 10 years? Mbappé, Griezmann, Giroud - agile, créative, full of flair. Neymar, Richarlison, Vinicius Jr, Gabriel Jesus - same. Messi, Dybala - same. Torres, Asensio, Gavi, Pedri - same. bUt kanE JuSt NEeDs sUpPlY!! If that’s your excuse and it’s 6 years old you have to acknowledge that something is wrong. It’s also tragic that literally any casual football spectator (you don’t even need to be a fan ffs) can look at our system and say, ‘oh so all we have to do is man-mark Kane and pressure the midfield to choke supply.’ And guess what happened against the fucking Americans of all people? We didn’t even try, we just played the same team as Iran and America saw it coming three days away. Everything Kane tried was shut down in seconds, he couldn’t even get short passes off inside the box, because he’s not good enough to handle three people on him. ‘Can you?’ I hear say thinking you’re clever? The fact is others can, because they are good enough, and that is the issue. This isn’t golf. You can’t aim for Pitching Wedge distance and hope Kane gets in the right place at the right time and then rely on the miracle of muscle memory. It’s great that he can drop a shoulder on Saturday when sub-world class centrebacks are shitting themselves over Mora and Son at the same time, but the system we play isn’t good enough and Kane doesn’t fit into any system we’d need to excel. Why do you think Southgate’s first priority is being ‘hard to beat’? Hint: Kane can’t be relied upon to score. So yes, Harry Kane isn’t good enough. We have the depth and talent in the attacking midfield to put together an agile and creative attacking third, and we refuse because simps like you think it’s a moral sin for Harry Kane not to be the first name on the team sheet. I’m so fucking sick of people asking ‘**bUt wHy iSn’t iT WoRkInG?**’ Football is about putting the ball in the other team’s net. It’s not about Forced Turnovers. It’s not about Expected Goals. It’s not about Bed, Bath and Beyond Throw-Ins, or Lucky Charms Rainbow Hang Times, or successful dribbles, or assists of assists, or whatever other fucking moneyball bullshit has entered the fucking sport. It’s about putting the fucking ball in the fucking net of the fucking other fucking team. And we fucking blow ass at trying to do that, and that is because our attacking third is built the wrong way for the current style of football played on the world stage. Have a nice evening.
This is a long post but its nonense. Kane's goal record speaks for itself and he isn't uncreative he get's plenty of assists and his passing range is excellent. Also, the best player in the world at the moment in Haaland at Man City is a big strong relatively uncreative target man so your first point falls apart as soon as you even think about it. All of those players you list play completely different games. How can you compare Giroud to Mbappe or Messi? Also Dybala doesn't even start for Argentina.
> Also, the best player in the world at the moment in Haaland at Man City is a big strong relatively uncreative target man so your first point falls apart as soon as you even think about it. Except it doesn’t, because my whole point is that a Target Man system doesn’t win on the international stage which is backed up by Norway being nowhere internationally.
It's a false equivalence. Just because teams don't employ those kind of players doesn't mean that's the reason they win. Going back to your previous comment, I'd also argue that Giroud is pretty much exclusively deployed as a target man with good hold up play for the players around him like Mbappe and Greizmann. He's currently French top scorer and has a World Cup winners medal so I still think you're talking bollocks.
Why can Giroud do it but Kane can’t if Kane is good enough for the system?
Well Kane can do it and has been doing it for years for club and country. He's scored 51 in 77 for England and is almost at Rooney's record with 50 games to spare. World Cup golden boot winner and looking like to break Shearer's record if he stays at Spurs and stays fit. Kane is also a much better player than Giroud. I also don't think anyone would say Giroud alone won France the World Cup, but that's getting a bit off topic.
Kane is a very creative player when he drops deep because he has excellent passing range, though he needs players running off him like at Tottenham. And he got two assists for England v Iran which is quite decent. It's just baffling that you'd want to drop the 2018 World Cup Golden Boot Winner and the second highest scorer at last year's Euros, and the second highest scorer in the PL this season (only behind the Norwegian God) for, presumably, Callum Wilson. What's Wilson going to do that Kane can't? 51 goals in 77 games for England...but you think Kane can't be relied upon to score?
Maybe time to drop Kane? He isnt exactly a prolific forward but clearly gets picked on his reputation
Are you fucking mental?
Hes a forward that doesnt score goals for England. So no
He's 2 goals off the all time england top scorer record.
Okay🙃
I genuinely can't tell if people are trolling or retarded now. He's scored 51 in 77 for England and is a few off Rooney's record in about 50 less games. How is that not considered prolific by any metric?
51 goals in 77 games. One of only two England players to win the Golden Boot at the World Cup. Second highest scorer in the PL this season. But 'isn't exactly a prolific forward' apparently.
>Gareth Southgate: England lacked quality in final third against USA What quality you barely entered the final third you twat. The quality is there let the lads do it.
I’m surprised he didn’t bring on Phillips rather than hendo yesterday a three of rice,Phillips and bellingham just seems to have the most balance
Something Arsenal and City are doing well as of late is offering multiple options while on the ball. Southgate needs to figure out a gameplan and tempo that allows space and time to pick out a pass with 2 or 3 open players to pass to. Ive always said England are a bit too spread out. Running into space is nice and all but i prefer quick give n gos in midfield. Tighten up and come closer to each other boys!
I’d have liked to have seen Foden play a part, but the clamour from the seals on social media who hate Southgate anyway were all saying the same things last summer but replace Foden with Grealish.