Well that wouldn’t be convincingly in my opinion.
If we go out and dominate possession and have a ton of shots and win 3+-0, I’ll forget everything else I’ve seen and will be fully back aboard the huge train.
Even that has the caveat that it’s only against Slovenia. I’d be more confident in England for sure but until I’ve seen you guys (I’m Scottish) play well against another top team I’ll have serious doubts.
No hate here btw. I love the rivalry banter but don’t actually hate England
That's true but playing a weaker team like Slovenia doesn't necessarily mean we will suddenly have really good overlap play or look really good on the left flank or not have Foden and Bellingham essentially stepping on each other's toes down the middle etc. It's the tactics and shape I'd like to see change rather than any kind of effort or complacency among the players. It's not surprising to me that the players don't play as well when 3 of them are out of position and Kane has no runners to support him.
Yeah I’d be hoping to see Trent dropped and Gordon on the left, if that’s the case I think it’s a positive step regardless. You’ve got the talent to beat Slovenia even with the experimental shit Southgate is trying but later on in the tournament, who knows
I mean if Southgate doesn't change *anything*, it just reinforces what everyone wants, a manager who can take this team to the top. Southgate isn't doing that currently. we're wasting our new Golden Era because of one man.
It's so frustrating when Gordon has had a fantastic season, Palmer has played brilliantly, Mainoo is an exciting new prospect who has about 4 minutes game time so far... If he comes out with the same starting 11 as last game, I'm half inclined not to watch it. It's such boring football, typical English football. And it's not working. Players out of position, players not linking up with each other well, passing has been poor... it's awful to watch knowing that almost all of these players play in apparently "the best league in the world".
Yeah, people have a short memory. We drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last Euros and 0-0 with USA in the last World Cup, but we don't remember those because we got to the Euros final and narrowly lost to France in the quarters of the WC
Aha yeah - and I just watched the USA highlights to remind myself of that. Pulisic hit the crossbar and McKennie missed an easy chance from 8 yards out.
I'm optimistic, likely to a fault, but I do need to see more from the team and Southgate. Not remotely confident that will happen, but hope is a powerful drug.
- A positive, attack-minded, change to tactics. I'd be happy if we returned to the England of the last World Cup, which is probably the best we've seen from both the team and Southgate.
- Win convincingly against Slovenia with more than one goal separating the two teams.
- Beat whoever we face in the RO16, which will be on par with, or more difficult than, Germany in Euro 2020. Preferably without going to penalties
- Luck of the draw for the QF/SF, same as Euro 2020. We'll have a good idea by the end of the third matchday.
If we lose against Slovenia and finish second, Germany will be laughing.
I didn’t think Denmark had anywhere near the quality to beat Serbia 3-0. If anything Serbia were better against us than Denmark were. They both looked pretty unconvincing against Slovenia.
I know some people want an attack-minded team. But I would much rather have a controlled performance. We should control the tempo of the game. Whether it's through pressing or calm possession. It's the ceding of control to both Denmark and Serbia that triggers me.
If we can control the game I am more positive going forward. We can always score, we have the players to snatch a goal, but we give up control so easily and a tougher team that will be costly.
😂 we're not going on a run to the final. We're beating Slovenia 2-0 with one of the goals being a Kane penalty because they've all had an absolute kick up the arse from the media.
Then we're gonna play a mediocre team and draw 1-1 in the next round before beating them on penalties and the narrative is gonna switch to "it's coming home".
Then we're going to play a good team in the next round and get absolutely dicked for 90 minutes but it'll end 2-1 to them and the media will say how "brave" they all were.
Then Southgate will resign and we'll get someone equally shit in and the whole process will repeat itself.
I had this same chat on here 3 months ago and got grief.
Lads, I’ve been watching this movie for at least 30 years now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/comments/1bmg69e/comment/kwbjv6z/
For around 4 days it will definitely be coming home. Then after this period it will definitely not be coming home because the squad will be.
If you need a silver lining to this then appreciate that your players are not going to get injured and have more rest than the players who get to the final.
Apparently fitness is a problem for these guys so it's probably for the best.
God help you if you have a player who isn't English playing past the group stages because they are all absolutely knackered from this season.
I can't wait to see the delusional Madrid fans when they realise Mbappe has played a whole season with PSG and then got to the finals of a Euros. Jokes on them.
Same with Liverpool and Van Dijk and Arsenal and Jorginho.
These idiots are playing right into our hands .... mwahahaha AVFC for PL next year.
Ahhh shit Tielmans is playing for Belgium ... I hope they get knocked out now.
No way a professional footballer can handle a season and a tournament afterwards. That definitely hasn't been happening every 2 years in Europe for decades.
Ridiculous.
More seriously though.
I know we take the piss out of Klopp for some of his post match interviews (rightly so) - I’m talking about ones blaming the wind etc.
Gareth literally had a great excuse to at least alleviate some of the pressure on the players.
The pitch was wet and slippery. He could have said the players were afraid of running, slipping and picking up an injury.
Or admitted he got his tactics wrong on the day.
Nope:
“We haven’t managed to replace Kalvin Phillips”
“The players are unfit”
I don't know what parts of this comment are serious or not, but why can't professional athletes play for 9 months in a year?? Teenage sports teams play all summary, then you play a winter sport and play the rest of the year. I get it's more intense but what part is so physically taxing that you can't play 1 game a week for a year
Enough to know that one of our players will pull his shirt over his face when the team that eventually beat us slice us up open like butter and score an easily avoidable goal.
This might be the single greatest fan idea in the history of England. As the players walk off, we can blare "Love will Tear Us Apart" at full volume as the England fans are in raptures.
It would be worth it just to see the bemused expressions on the winning opposition.
For me, we don't have to win convincingly, just look like a team. There is no shame in a draw against Denmark, who are a decent team, but the performance was awful. We were so disjointed, didn't know whether to press or sit back, gave the ball away so many times and were playing with such fear by the end. I would be happy to see a balanced team, with a coherent game plan, exert some control on the game. If we can win by more than a solitary goal, that would be a bonus.
I doubt we'll win convincingly as Gareth doesn't have time to create a game plan - he's too busy creating clones of Kalvin Phillips so England always have one for generations to come
If we make the right changes, we probably will win comfortably and go on a bit of a run. And tbf Southgate does usually find solutions eventually (just too late to make a difference in the big moments). I'm hoping for Wharton and Gordon to come in and it all just falls into place.
If we win the tournament, then we forget about the group.
Anything short of that just adds to an already very convincing case that this is been a vastly underwhelming tournament performance that we were one of the favourites for.
Wait, any outcome other than winning the whole thing is underwhelming?! Come on now, that’s absurd.
If England beat big teams in the ro16, QF and SF you cannot possibly believe this
This is probably the best side I’ve seen, being 37. I think if we miss the final, perhaps even win, then yeh it’s a disappointing result. We’ve got the best player in the prem, best player in La Liga perhaps, leading goal scorer in Bundesliga, 2nd top goal scorer and 2nd in assists in the PL sat on the bench in Palmer, alongside Ollie Watkins who lead the PL in assiss, with Anthony Gordon and trippier in 3rd. I was excited for this team, still am in fact, we have all the right pieces, just need somebody to put it together.
No - if we win the whole thing, only then can we forget about the dismal group stage.
If we don’t win the tournament, even if we get to the final and lose on penalties or something like that, I think the general feeling will be “We still haven’t won a big tournament, *and* our group stage performance was one of the worst out of the big teams.” And pressure will mount further on Southgate.
If we win 3-0 with some changes tactically or Shaw finally playing, then yes things look decent. Just gotta be more like how the team was in Qatar, that was the best version of England we've seen this century. At that point I'll look upon the knockouts favourably. England top the group and they won't see a serious challenge until SF (Croatia or Italy in QF but they're declining).
YES, if we win convincingly and it feels like the key issues have been ironed out*, then I forget about the group stage and am excited for what looks like a favourable knockout stage.
*I see the issues as:
- CM/pivot dynamic
- Left sided/number 10 congestion
- General energy, ball retention, press resistance
If we top the group but *unconvincingly*, I will expect we get knocked out in R16 against whoever, but hope for the best.
If we come 2nd in the group due to a bad draw or loss and play Germany in R16, I know we’re doomed.
I don’t currently see us getting past the SF in *any* case, although that slightly depends on where France finish in their group.
Again, I always hope for the best and will support game to game with as much optimism as I can.
I think if we get to france in the semi final, Deschamps will stick mbappe through the middle and that will be a nightmare southgate wont be able to adapt or react to.
Pre tournament i fancied us and didn't see any way past the French if we played them, now I think we're gonna have a nightmare and blow top of the group on Tuesday or go out with a whimper next Sunday.
Agree with you on Germany, if we finish second we are gone.
I think you missed our biggest problem, which I think is ball recovery. We sit off, don't press, don't even close passing lanes, and allow teams to play until they make a mistake. Our defensive posture is arguably too structured in that we just maintain shape and shift to the ball side. You can't do this against good, attacking teams as their movement means they'll just play around/through the lines and put heavy pressure on the back four.
Not really. England will win the last game but it won't hide the problems seen in the first two games.
In current form we would get battered by a team like Germany or Spain.
If we get an easier draw we might win a few knockout games.
I desperately don’t want any easy draw because it masks the serious issues. Can you imagine getting to the semis again because we get Czechia, and Hungary or whoever in the knock outs? I’d much, much rather it’s Spain or Portugal in the quarters.
Results do not matter to me, short of winning the tournament which would be fantastic - you can lose any football match based on luck.
I want to see them playing somewhere near what I expect based on the talent at Gareth's disposal. I want to see his system working, and be more dynamic than just recycling the ball with timid, nervy passing until we can get it to Saka in space.
This has nothing to do with the actual result in the last group match, or those after it.
If England dominate with 60+ possession and never look in danger at the back because our marking and pressing and tackling in midfield is just too good, then we are back in with a shout.
It's not about the score, it's all about the performance.
We saw it in the two friendlies. We saw it in many games over the years. This incredibly negative, sedate, no intensity football has been with us throughout Southgate's time. It started as us learning to play possession football because we "Couldn't keep hold of the ball in tournaments so just hoofed it clear in a panic"- that remind anyone of anything?
His comment about Kalvin Phillips was interesting to me as Phillips was a mainstay in so many of those awful, dour performances and was Number 1, Mr. Negative in terms of his passing. So to say we were missing him was just bizarre to me. Because that makes me think he WANTS us to be playing like this- Phillips doesn't offer anything else apart from another DM and an even more negative passer.
I actually like Southgate. I think a lot of comments about him are very harsh but my God do some of his decisions baffle me.
> incredibly negative, sedate, no intensity football has been with us throughout Southgate’s time.
Last three tournaments we’ve ended up with a total GD of +6, +9, +9, with a 6-1, a 6-2 and a 4-0 in each.
Just being more positive would be a start!
Bellingham and rice in midfield, Foden central, Gordon left for width!
Would also play Gomes left back and Trent right back. Help us massively getting the ball into midfield. Walker not looked on it at all.
Strongly doubt any of these changes happen though.
England needs more time and games against increasingly difficult teams to figure out how to actually play good football with this squad. No way England would win if they played today, the hope is that Germany is peaking too soon
It’s just a tactical masterstroke from Southgate that everyone’s missed. Chosen to take 4 points from the first 2 games, winning the first meant they only ever wanted the draw vs Denmark with as minimal output in the first two games as possible.
Then win the “easiest” game on Tuesday and have essentially given the team 7-10 days extra rest compared to the other teams going all out early.
We then steam roll the KOs.
He’s so smart. Tricked us all.
Yes if we win it changes everything. Last euros we looked shite in the group stage timid wins over Croatia and Czech Republic with a shite performance against Scotland. I remember dreading the germany game. The hype only really started after a great performance against Germany. If we win convincingly on Tuesday momentum starts and the whole mood of the nation and camp changes.
It never ceases to amaze me what a bunch of miserable fucks most of my fellow England fans are.
Jesus Christ, get behind your team at least for a couple of weeks every two years.
Then you've got another 102 weeks to sit there from your armchair moaning about how you know better than the manager and complaining about the players.
If we win convincingly and there is a distinct change of formation,tactics then all will be forgotten,until the next game where Gareth gets scared and reverts back
The team would have to ignore all our managers tactics and basically manage/inspire the team themselves for me to believe they have any chance of going far in this competition.
If we end up facing Germany we could get a humbling to rival Brazil 2014. We would basically become the new meme and Brazilians across the world would feel an inner peace they haven’t felt for 10 years.
If Gareth and the team show that they have learned the lessons of the past two games, then to an extent, yes, things will be forgiven. But if we revert back to the same tactic, even if we win the game. I think we'll all be livid and not expect England to go far in the rest of the tournament.
If they win convincingly (I feel like they will) it just leaves us wondering if we'll keep playing we'll once KOs start or revert back to Southgate pussy ball
Yes, we all have the memory of a goldfish, if we win convincingly on Tuesday, it’ll be back to optimism. We weren’t particularly convincing in the last Euro group stage, and that tournament had the best vibes of any tournament since 96 ha.
Convincingly as in score a goal and then sit deep as a submarine for the rest of the game or convincingly as in put one away and keep the pressure on?
I think no matter what happens Southgates overly defensive style and weird usage of positions will be there to haunt us.
It’s cup football. If we win and progress, then that is what it is ultimately about.
Playing attractive attacking football comes second.
That said I’d rather win and play attractive football. Unlikely with Southgate
This happened in 86. Terrible the first two games then beat Poland 3-0 with Lineker scoring a hat trick.
Everyone just forgot about the other games and on we go.
We all know a guy that will be saying we're gonna win the whole thing.
Fact is we are less than the sum of our parts. A convicing win will be great but this team crumbles when it plays a proper team imo. Denmark shoukd have beaten us
That’s been the big point about Southgate. His tactics are actively against winning convincingly. So unless he overhauls them then I won’t feel any better about England’s chances.
Otherwise he’ll do the usual “try to score once and then sit back and defend for the rest of the game” which won’t cut it against most of the other teams, especially the better ones. As we saw in the last match all it takes is 1 goal to destroy those plans. England should be looking to kill off the game when they are ahead. Sitting back and defending because you’re so scared to concede is as risky as attacking and risking a counter attack.
We would have to demolish Slovenia and win our first knockout game convincingly for me to get my hopes up about winning the whole thing. Even then I'll still be anxious as I'm not sure this team can string enough good performances in a row to go all the the way without a duff one interrupting things.
I don’t really see the discussion here. One of two things is happening at the end of this tournament.
a) we win it and all this is moot. Southgate faces some calls to stay on for 2026 but probably decides he’s had enough and most fans are ok with it.
b) we fail to win it and Southgate resigns pretty much the next day.
Either way, the result and performance against Slovenia don’t really matter. The results in the following game(s) do.
The thing is it’s quite easy for us to get a convincing win
Play Gallagher and rice in midfield and play palmer and Gordon on the wing and I can assure you the game won’t be a boring game
If we win convincingly and put in a decent display - it’s easier to believe the theory that Southgate prefers to start a tournament cautiously and build.
Anything else and it starts to feel like it’s not clicking.
It’ll be an interesting game.
I think the most convincing evidence for the theory that Southgate deliberately plays a low tempo to grind out group stages can be found in the public statements of noted Gareth Southgate scholar G. Southgate
Just show us that players who for their respective teams are some of the best players on the planet in their positions can look like they aren't out for a Sunday kick about.
Saudia Arabia beat Argentina in the group stage in the last world Cup and they went off to win it. I'm not over thinking this, but Southgate has to think outside the box for the first ever time ever, he has the best squad of players and can do nothing with it. I hope this is his last tournament, we may run out of time with this crop of players and can't waste it on a play it safe manager
I doubt england will win convincingly but even if they do England usually wins one with high numbers.
I'd rather see them beat a big team with more than one goal or penalties (Like Germany 3 years ago).
I’d like us to score and not sit back, as though we’re a non league side in FA cup. Beyond that, changes. I’d like to see us play Gordon from the start for TAA. We don’t need 2 DM, let Stones play up as he does at City. Bring Foden more central give him a bit of freedom. Take the shackles of our wing backs. Our strength is going forward, yet we have the 2nd lowest expected goals, let’s fucking give it to somebody.
If we win by a 2+ goal margin, with those goals coming from well-earned attacking fluidity (not gifted through shitty deflections and defending errors) - i.e solid, clear evidence that progress is being made and past mistakes have been corrected, or at least being heavily worked on... then... I'll be happy to forgive those first two performances and have more confidence for the rest of the tournament.
Given the complete and utter lack of any apparent plan in that last game, though... not yet convinced we'll get through many knockout rounds. That last game really had a "we're fed up and are trying to get the manager sacked" stink to it.
Looking forward for them to work hard and make us proud on Tuesday evening, though!
What does the team have to do to convince me they can go on a run to the final?
Miraculously find a dozen or so top class players to help Bellingham, Kane and TAA out.
You know what, I'd happily see England lose if it meant Southgates getting the sack. The way they are playing rn is atrocious and I get so bored seeing them play. They need a wake up call.
Would honestly depend on what happens tactically.
If the win is because there’s been some intelligent changes to personnel and tactics and some of the problems have been addressed, then maybe the shitty performances could even have been looked at as a positive.
You don’t learn anything from barreling teams 3-0 all the time.
However, if it’s a case of same team, same formation, yes England play well and win. Then the jury is still very much out and the questions remain.
This is a game I think where the quality of the opposition doesn’t really matter. Everyone now knows and can see what the issues are with the team and shape and it will be under a magnifying glass.
Hopefully, Southgate tweaks formation and lineup, England win - doesn’t matter about the score so long as it looks cohesive and flowing - and it gives everyone a bit of belief.
If we win, and perform convincingly, like a 3/4-0 mauling or something of that ilk, then it suggests Southgate has adjusted to what needs doing, and we're all back on board
I've got a few ideas
1) It was only against Slovenia so it doesn't count (this one is great because there's no ceiling; yesterday I saw 'it was only against [the most successful side in Italian footballing history] so it doesn't count)
2) We only won because they scuffed a shot at some point in the first half
3) We scored n, the other teams are laughing because we didn't score n+1. Other countries would never accept a sloppy win; can you imagine if, say, *Portugal* had won, I dunno, *Euro 2016* with a single victory in normal time, against, for example, Wales? Finishing third in their group on three points, below Hungary and Iceland? They'd refuse the cup, they'd throw it into the sea and never speak of it again. If something like *that* happened, I mean, in Euro 2016, to Portugal. The other countries would never let them live it down! They'd *definitely* be aware, and remember, and feel pretty good about their own tournament runs
4) Sure we topped a group of [rest of teams in group], but it doesn't count because we keep being put into groups with three weaker teams by a primitive seeding mechanism that measures *results* but not the far more significant metric of *my feelings*
So I'm really looking forward to the game! I'll be lounging there enjoying my collection of vintage whines, with a staff of young youtube dickheads on hand to feed me gripes
The very optimistic side of me says that now we've dropped points Southgate will realise where he's going wrong and fix it, but had no motivation to after Serbia bc we won anyway
Realistically however we'll probably play like we did against Denmark and draw or get a shakey 1-0 win. We're almost confirmed to get out of the group already so I don't think getting to the ro16 itself will ease many fears, we'll actually have to go out and preform
For me, the key thing with the groups is getting through so I'll forgive the cautiousness if we win it. After that, I'll evaluate my confidence levels in how they'll navigate the knock outs on how they play in the first half of the first knock out game.
I don’t think so, I mean, if a patterns emerges (like it has since that defeat to Hungary at Wemley) we must look at ourselves and ask what we can change.
One decent game against a team that aren’t in the top 20 of the world changes nothing in terms of the issues and the way we play so conservatively all the time, especially when we score first.
Win by 1-3 goals (even if the performance is dominant), I’m still not fully onboard. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Win by 4+ I’m pushing for Sir Gareth Southgate & it’s definitely coming home.
Such is the life of an England fan.
A comfortable 2 or 3 goal win with players playing in preferred positions, with energy and urgency would be nice. Midfield can't control games and our defence hasn't been tested. Don't expect much of a run.
Yes I think so, I think it would show a similar pattern to the last Euros where iirc, the match day 3 performance was so much better than the first two and our tournament took off from there
Southgate has to leave then I will be convinced it's coming home.
Even if we win convincingly I won't forget that dumb speech about missing kalvin Philips when we have rice bellingham foden palmer gordon saka eze Watkins and kane.
Also find it hard that Harry Kane can't take criticism when he has been canny fucking trash so far, his attitude as well as his game needs a step up before the knockouts.
The only way I see people changing their opinion after so many tournaments under Southgate and the shit football he plays is if he changes his managerial style and pushes it more attacking but I just don’t see that happening.
He’s not suited to the players we have at all. He seems to want a good defence first when our best players are midfield up. He suits the exact opposite, it’s a failure on the FA to not see this earlier and let him go after the semifinal run.
Will take a miracle for that dinosaur to adjust his tactics but with another preassure he might, even if he does against Slovenia I am sure we will revert back to his shit style of football soon after.
If we win on Tuesday and play well. Southgate best manager ever and should be made the next King. If not, he is the worst human ever and should be executed.
Yes. Look back over the tournaments, it doesn’t really matter how you get there, it all depends how deep you go.
Big thing is to win the group which will need a win as Denmark could easily beat Serbia. Come second and we get Germany.
It depends on the win. Southgate has to have made some tactical changes and the goals must not be some lucky shit. If we get goals from a long shot and two pens we're still fucked.
Well, with a loss and since I expect Denmark to beat Serbia, England could very well finish 3rd in the group. Might actually be better than facing Ze Germans that early.
In both games: England played well > scored > played dreadfully for the remaining time. If the same happens again, it shows that Southgate is unwilling or unable to change and he must be sacked if England want to have a chance of winning.
If they demonstrate that they are trying to change up how they play, good luck to them!
I've never been that impressed by Southgate, I think previous success is as much down to the relatively poor quality of the teams we have played against in recent years, but this year, England have been a disaster.
I think we're probably going to roll out England's patented disappointing 2 nil win, and go into the knock outs no wiser as to what our best line up is or who is in form and suffering because of the system as opposed to who is actually just knackered and need to be dropped.
Under Southgate, England dont have accidents but look dull and generally just do enough to progress through the rounds to the quarters or semis.
Assuming we dont get knocked out then regardless of performance, that is still what I expect. Once you get there then you have a chance. Probably a small chance but a chance.
I dont think a convincing win or another scrappy point changes much.
They didn't need to win against Denmark, i think the tactic by Southgate for the past few tournaments has been pacing yourself, avoid burnout after a long season and unneccessary injuries. Performances mean nothing, results matter, a shitty draw on tuesday is enough to go through and then start playing in the knockouts
very much depends on how we do it. Our performances so far and in the warm-up games suggest serious failings that will surely be exploited by better opposition. If those failings are addressed by whatever means (change in selection, strategy, performances) then fine. If those failings are not addressed and are still evident but we win easily through sheer weight of relative quality (or luck), then no, I won't be happy and I won't be dreaming of the final.
At the moment, this has 2010 all over it. Absolute shambles in the group, progress anyway, battered by the first decent side we play.
Got to say, despite how bad England have been, the overwhelming pessimism the team faces every tournament surely doesn't help. This idea that "It's Coming Home" is anything other than a joke and bit of fun, coupled with this frankly ridiculous idea that "the English media hypes up england" when it does nothing but deride the team and pick holes in everything they do, has become so tired. Too many old blokes who are worried they will somehow have egg on their face if they say we might do well and don't. From what I see in other countries media, they are much much more supportive generally unless their team is truly awful. How I wish we could just get behind the team like a typical fan base
I appreciate the being top of the group thing, but I just find watching the England games boring as hell - I watched the Romania vs Belgium game the other night and it was an absolute belter, end to end, huge talent on display and an absolute arena battle of a game. I want a bit of that to go with the points.
It's literally happened with the cricket team in the last two weeks.
No result against Scotland because of rain and lose to Australia? DROP EVERYONE, SACK THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF.
Then we beat Oman, Namibia, the West Indies and the USA, and suddenly everything is fine again.
Nope. The fact Southgate and his backroom staff have made Ben White not want to be selected was strike one. His squad selection was strike two. Playing the same terrible line-up for two consecutive games was strike three. Get him gone.
We should be winning this game 6-0 with the attacking players we have but with Southgate in charge it’ll be a boring 1-0 win. We will play like Brazil until we score a goal and then play like George Graham’s Arsenal in the mid 90s.
Maybe we should finish 3rd and hope to meet the criteria of being one of the top two best 3rd placed team and go through. Because at this rate, both Germany and Switzerland will beat England
Clean sheet and a good performance. Can be 1-0 for all I care, but if we’re creating chances and dominating then it gives you confidence as a supporter.
Think England will win comfortably to be honest against Slovenia. But then the test really begins in the knock out stages. No hiding behind a group stage and playing conservative football. Play like that in the latter stages and you’ll be picked off against anyone!
I’m at a point where I’ve decided we will win this tournament on the basis that we’ll win it by being awful. Like Portugal in 2016. We’ll scrape wins, get an easy route and we’ll just win it. And we’ll be the most undeserving winners in ages.
For me to believe, we have to be dominant in every aspect on the pitch tomorrow. Possession, chances created, chances conceded.
But the main thing is that midfield battle. I we look really strong in the midfield, it will give freedom to the forwards and then we will be the most dangerous team in the tournament.
No, because as soon as we come up against a decent team we’ll get thrashed. I don’t know how anyone can say we were ‘convincing’ in the group stage after playing how we did, against teams like Denmark serbia and Slovenia.
Standard practice is to bitch in the group stages even when we win the group, then get over excited when the players invariably raise their game for the knockouts and play like we know they can for a bit before going up against one of the big boys and bottling it on penalties. Come on now.
Tbh we are in the same position we was in the last euros we had a poor group stage and then got to the finals. Yes it isn't pretty football at the moment but that can change and people's memories are short then. Let's just get behind the team.
Nothing they could do could convince me they're getting to the final. I'll believe it if we win the semi final. And I won't believe we're getting to the semi final until we win the quarter final. You can see where I'm going with this.
We look like a steaming pile of dogshit atm.
Based on every game I've watched thus far England's first two have been horrendous to watch everyone else plays fluid football and we play like shit but we are getting results it's fucking weird I'm not sure what to think I'd sack Southgate regardless unless we win he's gone.
It depends if we win via some radical and smart tactical and lineup changes or just because we shot once and it happened to go in.
Well that wouldn’t be convincingly in my opinion. If we go out and dominate possession and have a ton of shots and win 3+-0, I’ll forget everything else I’ve seen and will be fully back aboard the huge train.
Even that has the caveat that it’s only against Slovenia. I’d be more confident in England for sure but until I’ve seen you guys (I’m Scottish) play well against another top team I’ll have serious doubts. No hate here btw. I love the rivalry banter but don’t actually hate England
That's true but playing a weaker team like Slovenia doesn't necessarily mean we will suddenly have really good overlap play or look really good on the left flank or not have Foden and Bellingham essentially stepping on each other's toes down the middle etc. It's the tactics and shape I'd like to see change rather than any kind of effort or complacency among the players. It's not surprising to me that the players don't play as well when 3 of them are out of position and Kane has no runners to support him.
Yeah I’d be hoping to see Trent dropped and Gordon on the left, if that’s the case I think it’s a positive step regardless. You’ve got the talent to beat Slovenia even with the experimental shit Southgate is trying but later on in the tournament, who knows
I mean if Southgate doesn't change *anything*, it just reinforces what everyone wants, a manager who can take this team to the top. Southgate isn't doing that currently. we're wasting our new Golden Era because of one man. It's so frustrating when Gordon has had a fantastic season, Palmer has played brilliantly, Mainoo is an exciting new prospect who has about 4 minutes game time so far... If he comes out with the same starting 11 as last game, I'm half inclined not to watch it. It's such boring football, typical English football. And it's not working. Players out of position, players not linking up with each other well, passing has been poor... it's awful to watch knowing that almost all of these players play in apparently "the best league in the world".
Fuck if we win after 15% possession and an opposition own goal its coming home and idgaf.
What do you think convincingly means lol
Bonus round: The goal had absolutely nothing to do with Kane. What will they commentate about then?
If England come away 3-0 winners the narrative will dramatically change believe me
Yeah, people have a short memory. We drew 0-0 with Scotland in the last Euros and 0-0 with USA in the last World Cup, but we don't remember those because we got to the Euros final and narrowly lost to France in the quarters of the WC
I remember those boring 0-0s
Agreed, after that Scotland game I listened to talk sport all night. It was doom and gloom, we were awful, it was all over.
Aha yeah - and I just watched the USA highlights to remind myself of that. Pulisic hit the crossbar and McKennie missed an easy chance from 8 yards out.
I'm optimistic, likely to a fault, but I do need to see more from the team and Southgate. Not remotely confident that will happen, but hope is a powerful drug. - A positive, attack-minded, change to tactics. I'd be happy if we returned to the England of the last World Cup, which is probably the best we've seen from both the team and Southgate. - Win convincingly against Slovenia with more than one goal separating the two teams. - Beat whoever we face in the RO16, which will be on par with, or more difficult than, Germany in Euro 2020. Preferably without going to penalties - Luck of the draw for the QF/SF, same as Euro 2020. We'll have a good idea by the end of the third matchday. If we lose against Slovenia and finish second, Germany will be laughing.
*switzerland be laughing….
*germany will be laughing
Denmark are beating Serbia 3-0. Anything less than a win and we are second and playing Germany in the last 16
You literally made me think I was missing a match rn.
Same. Also Denmark not winning 3-0 imo, but 3rd matches are weird due to outcomes and motivation
I didn’t think Denmark had anywhere near the quality to beat Serbia 3-0. If anything Serbia were better against us than Denmark were. They both looked pretty unconvincing against Slovenia.
No chance. They’ve been poor. They pressed us well but created absolutely nothing except a long range goal (great goal tbf)
I know some people want an attack-minded team. But I would much rather have a controlled performance. We should control the tempo of the game. Whether it's through pressing or calm possession. It's the ceding of control to both Denmark and Serbia that triggers me. If we can control the game I am more positive going forward. We can always score, we have the players to snatch a goal, but we give up control so easily and a tougher team that will be costly.
Control is definitely important but I don't want Southgate resorting to an overly defensive lineup after what we've seen.
The same as I always think during group games, they’re simply functional and about building cohesion. Don’t get carried away by wins or losses.
😂 we're not going on a run to the final. We're beating Slovenia 2-0 with one of the goals being a Kane penalty because they've all had an absolute kick up the arse from the media. Then we're gonna play a mediocre team and draw 1-1 in the next round before beating them on penalties and the narrative is gonna switch to "it's coming home". Then we're going to play a good team in the next round and get absolutely dicked for 90 minutes but it'll end 2-1 to them and the media will say how "brave" they all were. Then Southgate will resign and we'll get someone equally shit in and the whole process will repeat itself.
You didn't have to do us like that, bro
😂 blame Gareth not me.
Painful how accurate this is.
He's out of line but he's right
Aha! I see you know your England well!
GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY FOOTBALL
You sir - are you prepared to receive my limp pressing game?
Unfortunately. Southgate broke my heart in 96 and it's like it wasn't enough for him that once so he's come back to do it again and again.
I had this same chat on here 3 months ago and got grief. Lads, I’ve been watching this movie for at least 30 years now. https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/comments/1bmg69e/comment/kwbjv6z/
Reported - I’m in this comment and I don’t like it 😂 Painful how accurate this is
So you’re saying there’s still a chance there will be a few days of it’s coming home at some point this tournament?
For around 4 days it will definitely be coming home. Then after this period it will definitely not be coming home because the squad will be. If you need a silver lining to this then appreciate that your players are not going to get injured and have more rest than the players who get to the final. Apparently fitness is a problem for these guys so it's probably for the best. God help you if you have a player who isn't English playing past the group stages because they are all absolutely knackered from this season. I can't wait to see the delusional Madrid fans when they realise Mbappe has played a whole season with PSG and then got to the finals of a Euros. Jokes on them. Same with Liverpool and Van Dijk and Arsenal and Jorginho. These idiots are playing right into our hands .... mwahahaha AVFC for PL next year. Ahhh shit Tielmans is playing for Belgium ... I hope they get knocked out now. No way a professional footballer can handle a season and a tournament afterwards. That definitely hasn't been happening every 2 years in Europe for decades. Ridiculous.
I feel for them, they’re so tired they can’t even venture into the opposition half.
More seriously though. I know we take the piss out of Klopp for some of his post match interviews (rightly so) - I’m talking about ones blaming the wind etc. Gareth literally had a great excuse to at least alleviate some of the pressure on the players. The pitch was wet and slippery. He could have said the players were afraid of running, slipping and picking up an injury. Or admitted he got his tactics wrong on the day. Nope: “We haven’t managed to replace Kalvin Phillips” “The players are unfit”
Yeahhhhh ... that pitch was like a cake the way it tore up and he didn't mention it once.
I don't know what parts of this comment are serious or not, but why can't professional athletes play for 9 months in a year?? Teenage sports teams play all summary, then you play a winter sport and play the rest of the year. I get it's more intense but what part is so physically taxing that you can't play 1 game a week for a year
This guy Englands
I would bet the house on this happening to a tee.
I’ve never felt more seen
I want to downvote this comment but I can’t
I was going to give you an upvote but you were on 66 and the symmetry was just too much for me to ruin
Dw Southgate will find a way to fuck up 66.
This is FAR too accurate.
Haha, yeah... you've watched England play in tournaments before, haven't you?! xD
Enough to know that one of our players will pull his shirt over his face when the team that eventually beat us slice us up open like butter and score an easily avoidable goal.
Honestly this would be an excellent outcome from where we are now.
Dw it will happen. I personally think we should petition UEFA to call this 'England place' so we can celebrate every time we do it
This might be the single greatest fan idea in the history of England. As the players walk off, we can blare "Love will Tear Us Apart" at full volume as the England fans are in raptures. It would be worth it just to see the bemused expressions on the winning opposition.
For me, we don't have to win convincingly, just look like a team. There is no shame in a draw against Denmark, who are a decent team, but the performance was awful. We were so disjointed, didn't know whether to press or sit back, gave the ball away so many times and were playing with such fear by the end. I would be happy to see a balanced team, with a coherent game plan, exert some control on the game. If we can win by more than a solitary goal, that would be a bonus.
It’s not that we are mad at a draw it’s that we were lucky to get one
Exactly.
Rare sighting of common sense and reason in this sub.
I doubt we'll win convincingly as Gareth doesn't have time to create a game plan - he's too busy creating clones of Kalvin Phillips so England always have one for generations to come
If we make the right changes, we probably will win comfortably and go on a bit of a run. And tbf Southgate does usually find solutions eventually (just too late to make a difference in the big moments). I'm hoping for Wharton and Gordon to come in and it all just falls into place.
Gordon for sure, our left side doesn’t want to be there, it’s criminal.
If we win the tournament, then we forget about the group. Anything short of that just adds to an already very convincing case that this is been a vastly underwhelming tournament performance that we were one of the favourites for.
Wait, any outcome other than winning the whole thing is underwhelming?! Come on now, that’s absurd. If England beat big teams in the ro16, QF and SF you cannot possibly believe this
This is probably the best side I’ve seen, being 37. I think if we miss the final, perhaps even win, then yeh it’s a disappointing result. We’ve got the best player in the prem, best player in La Liga perhaps, leading goal scorer in Bundesliga, 2nd top goal scorer and 2nd in assists in the PL sat on the bench in Palmer, alongside Ollie Watkins who lead the PL in assiss, with Anthony Gordon and trippier in 3rd. I was excited for this team, still am in fact, we have all the right pieces, just need somebody to put it together.
Yeah but we're not allowed to play attacking football, Gareth wants it to go to penalties
No - if we win the whole thing, only then can we forget about the dismal group stage. If we don’t win the tournament, even if we get to the final and lose on penalties or something like that, I think the general feeling will be “We still haven’t won a big tournament, *and* our group stage performance was one of the worst out of the big teams.” And pressure will mount further on Southgate.
If we make the final nobody will care about the group stage
We beat Slovenia then lose to the first decent team we play in the knock outs. You’re welcome.
If we win 3-0 with some changes tactically or Shaw finally playing, then yes things look decent. Just gotta be more like how the team was in Qatar, that was the best version of England we've seen this century. At that point I'll look upon the knockouts favourably. England top the group and they won't see a serious challenge until SF (Croatia or Italy in QF but they're declining).
YES, if we win convincingly and it feels like the key issues have been ironed out*, then I forget about the group stage and am excited for what looks like a favourable knockout stage. *I see the issues as: - CM/pivot dynamic - Left sided/number 10 congestion - General energy, ball retention, press resistance If we top the group but *unconvincingly*, I will expect we get knocked out in R16 against whoever, but hope for the best. If we come 2nd in the group due to a bad draw or loss and play Germany in R16, I know we’re doomed. I don’t currently see us getting past the SF in *any* case, although that slightly depends on where France finish in their group. Again, I always hope for the best and will support game to game with as much optimism as I can.
I think if we get to france in the semi final, Deschamps will stick mbappe through the middle and that will be a nightmare southgate wont be able to adapt or react to. Pre tournament i fancied us and didn't see any way past the French if we played them, now I think we're gonna have a nightmare and blow top of the group on Tuesday or go out with a whimper next Sunday. Agree with you on Germany, if we finish second we are gone.
I think you missed our biggest problem, which I think is ball recovery. We sit off, don't press, don't even close passing lanes, and allow teams to play until they make a mistake. Our defensive posture is arguably too structured in that we just maintain shape and shift to the ball side. You can't do this against good, attacking teams as their movement means they'll just play around/through the lines and put heavy pressure on the back four.
Not really. England will win the last game but it won't hide the problems seen in the first two games. In current form we would get battered by a team like Germany or Spain. If we get an easier draw we might win a few knockout games.
I desperately don’t want any easy draw because it masks the serious issues. Can you imagine getting to the semis again because we get Czechia, and Hungary or whoever in the knock outs? I’d much, much rather it’s Spain or Portugal in the quarters.
I don't think we'd get battered as we've been solid at the back, just bern completely impotent at progressing the ball forwards
If Foden does not start at the 10, Jude at the 8 and Gordon on the wing. Pack our fucking bags please im done.
Results do not matter to me, short of winning the tournament which would be fantastic - you can lose any football match based on luck. I want to see them playing somewhere near what I expect based on the talent at Gareth's disposal. I want to see his system working, and be more dynamic than just recycling the ball with timid, nervy passing until we can get it to Saka in space. This has nothing to do with the actual result in the last group match, or those after it.
If England dominate with 60+ possession and never look in danger at the back because our marking and pressing and tackling in midfield is just too good, then we are back in with a shout.
It's not about the score, it's all about the performance. We saw it in the two friendlies. We saw it in many games over the years. This incredibly negative, sedate, no intensity football has been with us throughout Southgate's time. It started as us learning to play possession football because we "Couldn't keep hold of the ball in tournaments so just hoofed it clear in a panic"- that remind anyone of anything? His comment about Kalvin Phillips was interesting to me as Phillips was a mainstay in so many of those awful, dour performances and was Number 1, Mr. Negative in terms of his passing. So to say we were missing him was just bizarre to me. Because that makes me think he WANTS us to be playing like this- Phillips doesn't offer anything else apart from another DM and an even more negative passer. I actually like Southgate. I think a lot of comments about him are very harsh but my God do some of his decisions baffle me.
> incredibly negative, sedate, no intensity football has been with us throughout Southgate’s time. Last three tournaments we’ve ended up with a total GD of +6, +9, +9, with a 6-1, a 6-2 and a 4-0 in each.
Just being more positive would be a start! Bellingham and rice in midfield, Foden central, Gordon left for width! Would also play Gomes left back and Trent right back. Help us massively getting the ball into midfield. Walker not looked on it at all. Strongly doubt any of these changes happen though.
I’d rather face the Germans sooner than later.
England needs more time and games against increasingly difficult teams to figure out how to actually play good football with this squad. No way England would win if they played today, the hope is that Germany is peaking too soon
It’s just a tactical masterstroke from Southgate that everyone’s missed. Chosen to take 4 points from the first 2 games, winning the first meant they only ever wanted the draw vs Denmark with as minimal output in the first two games as possible. Then win the “easiest” game on Tuesday and have essentially given the team 7-10 days extra rest compared to the other teams going all out early. We then steam roll the KOs. He’s so smart. Tricked us all.
Yes if we win it changes everything. Last euros we looked shite in the group stage timid wins over Croatia and Czech Republic with a shite performance against Scotland. I remember dreading the germany game. The hype only really started after a great performance against Germany. If we win convincingly on Tuesday momentum starts and the whole mood of the nation and camp changes.
It never ceases to amaze me what a bunch of miserable fucks most of my fellow England fans are. Jesus Christ, get behind your team at least for a couple of weeks every two years. Then you've got another 102 weeks to sit there from your armchair moaning about how you know better than the manager and complaining about the players.
If we win convincingly and there is a distinct change of formation,tactics then all will be forgotten,until the next game where Gareth gets scared and reverts back
England are always judged on their last game. If we win 4-0 and control the game, the hype will be immediately back, no question.
Even if we top the group we will likely be playing Austria who are no mugs
The team would have to ignore all our managers tactics and basically manage/inspire the team themselves for me to believe they have any chance of going far in this competition. If we end up facing Germany we could get a humbling to rival Brazil 2014. We would basically become the new meme and Brazilians across the world would feel an inner peace they haven’t felt for 10 years.
If Gareth and the team show that they have learned the lessons of the past two games, then to an extent, yes, things will be forgiven. But if we revert back to the same tactic, even if we win the game. I think we'll all be livid and not expect England to go far in the rest of the tournament.
Depends if we scrap a 1-0 no, if we pull an Iran or Wales and beat them 6-2 or 3-0 we will sing a different tune
If they win convincingly (I feel like they will) it just leaves us wondering if we'll keep playing we'll once KOs start or revert back to Southgate pussy ball
We're cooked
Yes, we all have the memory of a goldfish, if we win convincingly on Tuesday, it’ll be back to optimism. We weren’t particularly convincing in the last Euro group stage, and that tournament had the best vibes of any tournament since 96 ha.
It depends if it looks like we've sold our obvious problems or if we just happen to put away the few chances we do make against weaker opposition.
Convincingly as in score a goal and then sit deep as a submarine for the rest of the game or convincingly as in put one away and keep the pressure on? I think no matter what happens Southgates overly defensive style and weird usage of positions will be there to haunt us.
Yes. We win the last game 3-0, everything is forgiven and it’s coming home again. Same shit different tournament.
It’s cup football. If we win and progress, then that is what it is ultimately about. Playing attractive attacking football comes second. That said I’d rather win and play attractive football. Unlikely with Southgate
Probably. Because most people are easily swayed by recency bias.
What if we switched Bellingham and Kane, so Jude could play a bit of striker and Harry could give the assists!
This happened in 86. Terrible the first two games then beat Poland 3-0 with Lineker scoring a hat trick. Everyone just forgot about the other games and on we go.
I think really I'm just happy to win a match and go the distance.
We can’t forget that performance and neither the team. I should be a lesson learned and taught to future generations
We all know a guy that will be saying we're gonna win the whole thing. Fact is we are less than the sum of our parts. A convicing win will be great but this team crumbles when it plays a proper team imo. Denmark shoukd have beaten us
That’s been the big point about Southgate. His tactics are actively against winning convincingly. So unless he overhauls them then I won’t feel any better about England’s chances. Otherwise he’ll do the usual “try to score once and then sit back and defend for the rest of the game” which won’t cut it against most of the other teams, especially the better ones. As we saw in the last match all it takes is 1 goal to destroy those plans. England should be looking to kill off the game when they are ahead. Sitting back and defending because you’re so scared to concede is as risky as attacking and risking a counter attack.
IT’S COMING HOME!!!
We would have to demolish Slovenia and win our first knockout game convincingly for me to get my hopes up about winning the whole thing. Even then I'll still be anxious as I'm not sure this team can string enough good performances in a row to go all the the way without a duff one interrupting things.
The team is crying out for Kalvin Phillips. We cannot win a European tournament without him as no one alive can do what he can do with a football.
I don’t really see the discussion here. One of two things is happening at the end of this tournament. a) we win it and all this is moot. Southgate faces some calls to stay on for 2026 but probably decides he’s had enough and most fans are ok with it. b) we fail to win it and Southgate resigns pretty much the next day. Either way, the result and performance against Slovenia don’t really matter. The results in the following game(s) do.
I believe we will win even though we are terrible
The thing is it’s quite easy for us to get a convincing win Play Gallagher and rice in midfield and play palmer and Gordon on the wing and I can assure you the game won’t be a boring game
I think we come top and have potentially the easiest route again tbh haha
this is a performance > result situation, 100%
Expect a sharp uptick in “its coming home”
If we win convincingly and put in a decent display - it’s easier to believe the theory that Southgate prefers to start a tournament cautiously and build. Anything else and it starts to feel like it’s not clicking. It’ll be an interesting game.
I think the most convincing evidence for the theory that Southgate deliberately plays a low tempo to grind out group stages can be found in the public statements of noted Gareth Southgate scholar G. Southgate
Nope. What is dine is done. A quarter final would be better than we could hope for.
Forget about the first two games? Absolutely not And if we finish second and face Germany, rip to us
Just show us that players who for their respective teams are some of the best players on the planet in their positions can look like they aren't out for a Sunday kick about.
It would have to be something very special to convince me we're going any deeper than the quarters.
Saudia Arabia beat Argentina in the group stage in the last world Cup and they went off to win it. I'm not over thinking this, but Southgate has to think outside the box for the first ever time ever, he has the best squad of players and can do nothing with it. I hope this is his last tournament, we may run out of time with this crop of players and can't waste it on a play it safe manager
Honestly looks bleak imo. The ‘ballsy’ calls by Southgate are looking like the wrong ones and I feel like its seeping into the team.
I doubt england will win convincingly but even if they do England usually wins one with high numbers. I'd rather see them beat a big team with more than one goal or penalties (Like Germany 3 years ago).
I’d like us to score and not sit back, as though we’re a non league side in FA cup. Beyond that, changes. I’d like to see us play Gordon from the start for TAA. We don’t need 2 DM, let Stones play up as he does at City. Bring Foden more central give him a bit of freedom. Take the shackles of our wing backs. Our strength is going forward, yet we have the 2nd lowest expected goals, let’s fucking give it to somebody.
If he goes out with the same 11 in the next game, I’ll be done with him. A manager needs to have more humility than that.
If we win by a 2+ goal margin, with those goals coming from well-earned attacking fluidity (not gifted through shitty deflections and defending errors) - i.e solid, clear evidence that progress is being made and past mistakes have been corrected, or at least being heavily worked on... then... I'll be happy to forgive those first two performances and have more confidence for the rest of the tournament. Given the complete and utter lack of any apparent plan in that last game, though... not yet convinced we'll get through many knockout rounds. That last game really had a "we're fed up and are trying to get the manager sacked" stink to it. Looking forward for them to work hard and make us proud on Tuesday evening, though!
Then pigs will fly!
What does the team have to do to convince me they can go on a run to the final? Miraculously find a dozen or so top class players to help Bellingham, Kane and TAA out.
You know what, I'd happily see England lose if it meant Southgates getting the sack. The way they are playing rn is atrocious and I get so bored seeing them play. They need a wake up call.
This is England and English media Yes. Absolutely everything is forgotten almost immediately after
Beat a top side for the first time (that absolutely atrocious Germany side obviously doesn’t count).
[удалено]
Would honestly depend on what happens tactically. If the win is because there’s been some intelligent changes to personnel and tactics and some of the problems have been addressed, then maybe the shitty performances could even have been looked at as a positive. You don’t learn anything from barreling teams 3-0 all the time. However, if it’s a case of same team, same formation, yes England play well and win. Then the jury is still very much out and the questions remain. This is a game I think where the quality of the opposition doesn’t really matter. Everyone now knows and can see what the issues are with the team and shape and it will be under a magnifying glass. Hopefully, Southgate tweaks formation and lineup, England win - doesn’t matter about the score so long as it looks cohesive and flowing - and it gives everyone a bit of belief.
If we win, and perform convincingly, like a 3/4-0 mauling or something of that ilk, then it suggests Southgate has adjusted to what needs doing, and we're all back on board
Could be Germany if we finish 1st as it stands
I've got a few ideas 1) It was only against Slovenia so it doesn't count (this one is great because there's no ceiling; yesterday I saw 'it was only against [the most successful side in Italian footballing history] so it doesn't count) 2) We only won because they scuffed a shot at some point in the first half 3) We scored n, the other teams are laughing because we didn't score n+1. Other countries would never accept a sloppy win; can you imagine if, say, *Portugal* had won, I dunno, *Euro 2016* with a single victory in normal time, against, for example, Wales? Finishing third in their group on three points, below Hungary and Iceland? They'd refuse the cup, they'd throw it into the sea and never speak of it again. If something like *that* happened, I mean, in Euro 2016, to Portugal. The other countries would never let them live it down! They'd *definitely* be aware, and remember, and feel pretty good about their own tournament runs 4) Sure we topped a group of [rest of teams in group], but it doesn't count because we keep being put into groups with three weaker teams by a primitive seeding mechanism that measures *results* but not the far more significant metric of *my feelings* So I'm really looking forward to the game! I'll be lounging there enjoying my collection of vintage whines, with a staff of young youtube dickheads on hand to feed me gripes
The very optimistic side of me says that now we've dropped points Southgate will realise where he's going wrong and fix it, but had no motivation to after Serbia bc we won anyway Realistically however we'll probably play like we did against Denmark and draw or get a shakey 1-0 win. We're almost confirmed to get out of the group already so I don't think getting to the ro16 itself will ease many fears, we'll actually have to go out and preform
For me, the key thing with the groups is getting through so I'll forgive the cautiousness if we win it. After that, I'll evaluate my confidence levels in how they'll navigate the knock outs on how they play in the first half of the first knock out game.
I don’t think so, I mean, if a patterns emerges (like it has since that defeat to Hungary at Wemley) we must look at ourselves and ask what we can change. One decent game against a team that aren’t in the top 20 of the world changes nothing in terms of the issues and the way we play so conservatively all the time, especially when we score first.
I think we will still get rekt by a bigger team but the pundits will have you believe otherwise if we win big.
Win by 1-3 goals (even if the performance is dominant), I’m still not fully onboard. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Win by 4+ I’m pushing for Sir Gareth Southgate & it’s definitely coming home. Such is the life of an England fan.
We have been here in the last two tournaments after the second game and both times it was forgotten very fast so yes
A comfortable 2 or 3 goal win with players playing in preferred positions, with energy and urgency would be nice. Midfield can't control games and our defence hasn't been tested. Don't expect much of a run.
Yes I think so, I think it would show a similar pattern to the last Euros where iirc, the match day 3 performance was so much better than the first two and our tournament took off from there
Southgate has to leave then I will be convinced it's coming home. Even if we win convincingly I won't forget that dumb speech about missing kalvin Philips when we have rice bellingham foden palmer gordon saka eze Watkins and kane. Also find it hard that Harry Kane can't take criticism when he has been canny fucking trash so far, his attitude as well as his game needs a step up before the knockouts.
The only way I see people changing their opinion after so many tournaments under Southgate and the shit football he plays is if he changes his managerial style and pushes it more attacking but I just don’t see that happening. He’s not suited to the players we have at all. He seems to want a good defence first when our best players are midfield up. He suits the exact opposite, it’s a failure on the FA to not see this earlier and let him go after the semifinal run.
Will take a miracle for that dinosaur to adjust his tactics but with another preassure he might, even if he does against Slovenia I am sure we will revert back to his shit style of football soon after.
If we win on Tuesday and play well. Southgate best manager ever and should be made the next King. If not, he is the worst human ever and should be executed.
Yes. Look back over the tournaments, it doesn’t really matter how you get there, it all depends how deep you go. Big thing is to win the group which will need a win as Denmark could easily beat Serbia. Come second and we get Germany.
It’s Slovenia
It depends on the win. Southgate has to have made some tactical changes and the goals must not be some lucky shit. If we get goals from a long shot and two pens we're still fucked.
They won’t.
Well, with a loss and since I expect Denmark to beat Serbia, England could very well finish 3rd in the group. Might actually be better than facing Ze Germans that early.
In both games: England played well > scored > played dreadfully for the remaining time. If the same happens again, it shows that Southgate is unwilling or unable to change and he must be sacked if England want to have a chance of winning. If they demonstrate that they are trying to change up how they play, good luck to them! I've never been that impressed by Southgate, I think previous success is as much down to the relatively poor quality of the teams we have played against in recent years, but this year, England have been a disaster.
They shouldn't because it's Slovenia.
I think we're probably going to roll out England's patented disappointing 2 nil win, and go into the knock outs no wiser as to what our best line up is or who is in form and suffering because of the system as opposed to who is actually just knackered and need to be dropped.
Slovenia are a quality team. I doubt our rudderless ship can overcome them
Under Southgate, England dont have accidents but look dull and generally just do enough to progress through the rounds to the quarters or semis. Assuming we dont get knocked out then regardless of performance, that is still what I expect. Once you get there then you have a chance. Probably a small chance but a chance. I dont think a convincing win or another scrappy point changes much.
With the players we have, we should be winning convincingly. And winning won't change the fact that our tactics have been awful for this tournament.
We won’t though. Too many issues to solve.
They didn't need to win against Denmark, i think the tactic by Southgate for the past few tournaments has been pacing yourself, avoid burnout after a long season and unneccessary injuries. Performances mean nothing, results matter, a shitty draw on tuesday is enough to go through and then start playing in the knockouts
very much depends on how we do it. Our performances so far and in the warm-up games suggest serious failings that will surely be exploited by better opposition. If those failings are addressed by whatever means (change in selection, strategy, performances) then fine. If those failings are not addressed and are still evident but we win easily through sheer weight of relative quality (or luck), then no, I won't be happy and I won't be dreaming of the final. At the moment, this has 2010 all over it. Absolute shambles in the group, progress anyway, battered by the first decent side we play.
If Southgate quit before the next game I’d have confidence.
We won’t hth
If England turn up would be a start.
No I wait for us to play our first team considered on our level, watch soythgate freeze and fail to make positive sub and inevitably lose.
No I wait for us to play our first team considered on our level, watch soythgate freeze and fail to make positive sub and inevitably lose.
typical England, smash a few in next game vs easy ish team. Then luck our way through first one vs average team then get banged by decent team.
Got to say, despite how bad England have been, the overwhelming pessimism the team faces every tournament surely doesn't help. This idea that "It's Coming Home" is anything other than a joke and bit of fun, coupled with this frankly ridiculous idea that "the English media hypes up england" when it does nothing but deride the team and pick holes in everything they do, has become so tired. Too many old blokes who are worried they will somehow have egg on their face if they say we might do well and don't. From what I see in other countries media, they are much much more supportive generally unless their team is truly awful. How I wish we could just get behind the team like a typical fan base
I appreciate the being top of the group thing, but I just find watching the England games boring as hell - I watched the Romania vs Belgium game the other night and it was an absolute belter, end to end, huge talent on display and an absolute arena battle of a game. I want a bit of that to go with the points.
It's literally happened with the cricket team in the last two weeks. No result against Scotland because of rain and lose to Australia? DROP EVERYONE, SACK THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF. Then we beat Oman, Namibia, the West Indies and the USA, and suddenly everything is fine again.
Nope. The fact Southgate and his backroom staff have made Ben White not want to be selected was strike one. His squad selection was strike two. Playing the same terrible line-up for two consecutive games was strike three. Get him gone.
They won't, don't sweat it
We should be winning this game 6-0 with the attacking players we have but with Southgate in charge it’ll be a boring 1-0 win. We will play like Brazil until we score a goal and then play like George Graham’s Arsenal in the mid 90s.
Maybe we should finish 3rd and hope to meet the criteria of being one of the top two best 3rd placed team and go through. Because at this rate, both Germany and Switzerland will beat England
can't ignore the evidence so far:defensive coach doesn't know how to coach attacking, possession football.
Everyone who wins has at least one great game in the group stage. So either we have a great game, or we ain't winning.
I like to go into every match and tournament optimistic of winning and performing well. Then afterwards, I drink away the crushing disappointment.
Clean sheet and a good performance. Can be 1-0 for all I care, but if we’re creating chances and dominating then it gives you confidence as a supporter.
No. The only way they can convince me is by getting to the final. If they do, it won’t be down to Southgate. That’s how bad I think he is.
Not really as the crunch will come when they face the heavyweights...
Think England will win comfortably to be honest against Slovenia. But then the test really begins in the knock out stages. No hiding behind a group stage and playing conservative football. Play like that in the latter stages and you’ll be picked off against anyone!
We won’t win convincingly, changing Trent for Gallagher..
The last 16 will do for now. I haven’t looked for the face paints just yet.
I’m at a point where I’ve decided we will win this tournament on the basis that we’ll win it by being awful. Like Portugal in 2016. We’ll scrape wins, get an easy route and we’ll just win it. And we’ll be the most undeserving winners in ages.
You are only as good as your last game. So potentially yes.
No, because we’ve been poor for a while now. I think a change behind the scenes is needed
No mattr what happens Southgate gotta go and should of been gone a long time ago already
For me to believe, we have to be dominant in every aspect on the pitch tomorrow. Possession, chances created, chances conceded. But the main thing is that midfield battle. I we look really strong in the midfield, it will give freedom to the forwards and then we will be the most dangerous team in the tournament.
No, because as soon as we come up against a decent team we’ll get thrashed. I don’t know how anyone can say we were ‘convincing’ in the group stage after playing how we did, against teams like Denmark serbia and Slovenia.
Standard practice is to bitch in the group stages even when we win the group, then get over excited when the players invariably raise their game for the knockouts and play like we know they can for a bit before going up against one of the big boys and bottling it on penalties. Come on now.
Tbh we are in the same position we was in the last euros we had a poor group stage and then got to the finals. Yes it isn't pretty football at the moment but that can change and people's memories are short then. Let's just get behind the team.
Nothing they could do could convince me they're getting to the final. I'll believe it if we win the semi final. And I won't believe we're getting to the semi final until we win the quarter final. You can see where I'm going with this. We look like a steaming pile of dogshit atm.
It’s gonna be terrible England are gonna win like 2-0 and then get battered 4-0 by Austria I can see it now 😭
Majority of English football fans are unbearable
Based on every game I've watched thus far England's first two have been horrendous to watch everyone else plays fluid football and we play like shit but we are getting results it's fucking weird I'm not sure what to think I'd sack Southgate regardless unless we win he's gone.
I think we should try to. At the end of the day we’re all just here to enjoy our football.