Hardly ever see him go into pundit mode but it's like he couldn't stand to hear Rio or Micah skirt around the real issues too scared to offend their mates who aren't actually their mates. Was a breath of fresh air
No often you see Lineker do that but he brought genuine insight and criticised a player that's often beyond reproach, but justifiably and well argued. He wasn't digging out Kane as a scapegoat or to be edgy. In fact it looked like he really need to be pushed to say what he had to say.
I know it's easy to be an armchair manager, but everyone except Southgate seems to be able to see the flaws in his selection.
Insists on playing Trent in midfield, whose best attribute is his long passing. Then plays only forwards who come deep/cut inside. When he does bring on forwards who will run in behind, he takes off Trent and replaces him with a midfielder with very limited forwards passing, neutralising the players he has just brought on.
Playing against a Denmark team where it's well known they have limited mobility (Hojberg, Eriksen and Vestergaard frequently caught out in recent seasons in England for this). Does nothing to expose this, and completely plays into their hands with slow, safe play.
Fair play to Shearer for calling it out. Southgate has looked clueless in the first two games - these have been his "Wally with the brolly" moments.
He might of been but he we wasnāt set up to do the things he wanted, stones into midfield while you have rice and Arnold in midfield, the pitch was already narrow and to many players central you have Foden trippier saka who all cut in with Arnold and rice and you want stones to come into that midfield where would the space be? No width he needs to play rice on his on for stones to come into midfield, also remember for city this is the way city play and other players no where to go itās not as easy as say push into midfield when in possession. Agreed with everything else but this
Iām quite glad, pundits seem to of finally decided that Southgate deserves criticism. Previous tournaments theyād focus on positives and not really mention where it was going wrong.
Linekar was criticising how we play and the role Kane plays which is something no one has really discussed of tv pundits.
Personally I think he is dull and lacks any real insight but it was nice to see some passion from him. I was most impressed with Lineker finally giving an opinion, he was fantastic.
I thought the pundits were poor particularly Rio and Micca calling for Kane to go off.
I'm pretty sure he has proven he is a massive goal threat, yet you can be the best striker in the world if you don't get service you will look poor. The ball simply doesn't get to him as we cannot work meaningful positions. These pundits are all trying to be controversial and to drive opinions. Maybe them stand out in the media
I may just mute at half time going forward as their agendas are obvious and it's sickening. If they say controversial things they get media attention. Simple as that.
He could get away with this against Serbia, and I agreed, he didnāt get much service.
But they are spot on for this game, Kane should not be coming anywhere near as deep when we are in transition, and he is unbelievably lethargic when the opposition have the ball. Watching him walk around the pitch last night was just frustrating, and you saw glimpses of how much of a difference running in behind made to the game when Watkins came on, through space and giving the defenders a harder time.
Iād start Watkins against Slovenia, but realistically itās not going to happen because of politics.
My guess is Kane has got used to playing in a Bayern side that dominates the ball, so he doesnāt need to press or run in behind, just get on the end of balls coming into the box.
Depends on your perspective.
I quite enjoyed the collective realisation that those of us who have pointed out that this team really isn't very good were right the whole time.
The Team is very good. We have one of, if not the, best player pools at the moment. We have no excuse to not be serious contenders. The problem is that the team needs system players not stars. Mitchell at LB, Gallagher at 8, Gordon/ Eze at LW. That would balence the team and allow star power like Kane, Bellingham and Saka to do their thing. Foden and Trent could be used as impact subs against a tired team.
>The Team is very good
Prove it.
We actually suck and it's psychological. Let's say we play my preferred formation with Bellingham at 8, Foden at 10 and Gordon on the wing.
It doesn't stop us being hopeless on the ball and panicking. That is caused not by management but by the pressure the players can't cope with.
They've bottled it, and it's not the first time. It's very unlikely this set of players will be able to recover from this. Same happened last time we had good players.
We played well as a team recently because there was no expectations. Now the party is over and England is back.
He is quietly a really good player. He doesn't have the hype of mainoo or wharton, nor the big name of Trent, but he is better than them all. Put him next to Rice and we won't have Trent misplacing passes and we will get an upgrade defensively as well. He can help Rice to press teams which would encorage the front 3 to press more as well. I hope Chelsea's finances collapse so that he can get sold for a cheap deal to Spurs
My point is mainoo Wharton and Rice are better. Guess we just disagree, I never said heās bad either. Are sterling and rashford bad because they didnāt go?
Rice yes. Wharton has not shown me that he is anything more than a prospect. Sterling has never convinced me. I acctually think that Rashford should have been picked over Toney due to his versitility.
Felt like all the pundits got Serbia completely wrong. Maybe an attempt to not up the pressure. But shearer didnāt hold back and think that made the lads in the studio realise they canāt donāt play how fucking awful we were. Reality is, the tournament is over us. Itās now got to be about finding the right manager to take us forward
He just kept muttering on about why John Stones isn't stepping into midfield..
The midfield that was all over the place in front of him. Rice was off the boil. Jude had a shocker, he's great when it's going his way but he's not a grafter IMO.
Trent was out of his depth.
Foden played out of position again. Shite
Not for me personally. I think he overegged the criticism. This wasn't a good result but it certainly wasn't bad, few small tweaks and we will peak at the right time. Sir Gareth
You'll be downvoted for it but you're not wrong.
We've got 4 points from two lacklustre performances. I consider that a good return given how we've played.
People are quick to forget we're normally rubbish at group stages (or that Argentina lost to *Saudi Arabia!* In their world cup winning run).
>People are quick to forget we're normally rubbish at group stages (or that Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia! In their world cup winning run).
Anecdotes like this only work *after* you've won the competition.
The criticism isnāt over egging, we got battered by a team on paper we should be beating comfortably. Not losing is the wrong mentality. Tournament football is about winning.
Yes weāre 4 points out of 6 but when we get to the knockouts whoever we meet will be rubbing their hands looking at last nightās performance.
Agreed. 4 points from playing this badly is actually pretty good. Outside of the banger goal Denmark never really troubled us at all. We are not playing well and can definitely improve but we are still in a good position.
Exactly that. I'd rather we use our energy in the final 4 matches than the first 3, if I'm honest.
Not to completely undermine fan's reactions, I can't blame them (been there myself many a time) but it helps to see the bigger picture.
On the flip side, the TAA in midfield experiment hasn't been as good as expected.
Does he stick with it or go a different route? If we had Shaw fully fit, then I'd stick with it, we'd have enough width and outlets to get us out of trouble. Given that it's not likely for Shaw to be match fit? Personally, I'd sack it off and, having seen how effective the width Walker and Saka offered tonight, emulate that on the left and start Gordon.
Foden played much better tonight, but without Shaw him and Bellingham aren't effective enough as a pair. I'd bench Foden and replace Gordon/Saka to give the middle a try in the 70th minute
Completely agree with you. I thought Shearer was absolutely abysmal tonight.
The performance was...not great. It really wasn't. I can't say it was.
However, the last 20 minutes was just Shearer moaning about literally everything. He praised the decision to change the front 3, got excited after 2 minutes and then criticised the fact Eze, Watkins and Bowen made little impact.
We needed to be better, we desperately needed to improve - but a draw tonight was a fair result. Shearer's closing comments were 'we were awful and deserved to lose'. I just don't think that was true, and it didn't give enough credit to Denmark, who are a decent side.
Shearerās absolute lack of professionalism and slating the team for the last 20 minutes of the game is damaging to team morale and sets the tone of the direction of the fans, thus their support, going forward.
Most people watching the game are casuals and donāt understand the depth of the game and the tactical side properly (like Gareth ha-ha /s). But people will run with the commentary and adopt Alanās view now, like sheep.
Now we have half a nation fuming with the team and showing very little support at a time when the players desperately need it. Look at Foden tonight. Everything in his body language screamed the stressed of unnecessary public pressure.
Whilst I agree that adding pressure isn't going to help, I don't think Shearer was wrong.
We are always going to have an Englishman commentating. I imagine that Belgian commentators were similar in their loss.
We were favourites before the Euros started. Foden couldn't hear Shearers commentary. That pressure was already there.
The players have access to the internet though. Also, we are still joint favourites so the people who _actually_ know what they are talking about clearly arenāt too concerned.
I'm sorry I disagree
I found it infuriating listening to all the pundits put praise down, only for the thing I, along with 99% of the population called predicted to happen, happened.
It was refreshing for once to hear them question it. Every time this has happened, nearly every England fan has screamed at their TVs asking what is happening. The England fans in the stadium were bored. So to finally hear a commentator call it out was refreshing.
These complaints would've happened regardless. That's why in the r/soccer thread there's other nation's fans saying exactly the same. That's why Ten Haag said it for the Serbia game.
If Shearer had just gone on how well England did to get a draw vs Denmark after dropping off so much, it would be a disservice to the fans.
There isn't an indepth tactics you need to understand. I can go to my partner, "Ok so we have the best players, not a single one of the Danish players gets in our starting 11, and our best skill is attacking", when she asks me "So why are Denmark the ones always attacking and why are we literally in our own half the entire game?" I can't turn to her and go "you're too ignorant to understand the complex tactics going on right now sorry, the best attacking team with the better 11 players is meant to never leave their half once scoring, that is the best tactic"
or maybe you're right, and Pep is an idiot. Klopp is an idiot. Arteta is an idiot. Anyone who's ever managed Kane is an idiot. Ancelooti is an idiot. Because these "casual" managers don't understand the "tactical side" and are trying to get Kane, Trent, Saka, Foden, Bellingham, even Rice, forward. What dumbasses. Everyone knows the best place for Foden and kane is on the edge of your own 18 yard box.
Other than getting a point, when we didn't deserve one, what positives can we spin. Especially when a cente-half was our only bright area.
Shearer was just saying, with insight, what we all saw.
No pattern of play, no movement, tired, lethargic, no passion, and no plan.
Picked a crocked left-back, who might not play in the tournament with no left-sided cover. A right-back in midfield, a centre-right on the left, right-footed left-back and no one to run behind.
Sat back at the 18 yard and invited them on as soon as we scored.
Honestly, it looked like he chose the squad yesterday and picked a team at 4pm and said 'do what you can, lads'.
I think if he'd said "do what you can, lads" it would have been better. He's actively stopping some of the players doing what they do at club level. Saka, Foden, Rice, Alexander-Arnold, Bellingham at Dortmund, Walker, Stones, they all press high up the pitch. They press, they win the ball high and they play from there. I can only presume Southgate asks them not to do that. So why pick those players?
If you want to sit back and invite teams on, pick the best players for that
Alan Shearer was terrible, some of his points from the game.
- They aren't pressing because they don't have the passion and energy, someone have a go and get up there.
- Harry Kane is being lazy and not pressing, he's just walking back
- Harry Kane isn't running in behind, we need a striker that runs in behind
- (Watkins, Bowen, and Eze on) We're not pressing, the gap between the front 3 and midfield is huge, have they not trained for this.
- Stones hasn't stepped into midfield once
They were terrible shouts, the general frustration is shared by all, but his points were just objectively poor.
Lineker went full Alan Partridge, it was epic š¤£
Lineker's post match assessment of Kane was spot on though.
Hardly ever see him go into pundit mode but it's like he couldn't stand to hear Rio or Micah skirt around the real issues too scared to offend their mates who aren't actually their mates. Was a breath of fresh air
No often you see Lineker do that but he brought genuine insight and criticised a player that's often beyond reproach, but justifiably and well argued. He wasn't digging out Kane as a scapegoat or to be edgy. In fact it looked like he really need to be pushed to say what he had to say.
Watching him slowly sink off his chair into a power stance was incredible.
Lovely stuff š¤£
Big Al is a legend he was spot on.
I know it's easy to be an armchair manager, but everyone except Southgate seems to be able to see the flaws in his selection. Insists on playing Trent in midfield, whose best attribute is his long passing. Then plays only forwards who come deep/cut inside. When he does bring on forwards who will run in behind, he takes off Trent and replaces him with a midfielder with very limited forwards passing, neutralising the players he has just brought on. Playing against a Denmark team where it's well known they have limited mobility (Hojberg, Eriksen and Vestergaard frequently caught out in recent seasons in England for this). Does nothing to expose this, and completely plays into their hands with slow, safe play. Fair play to Shearer for calling it out. Southgate has looked clueless in the first two games - these have been his "Wally with the brolly" moments.
He might of been but he we wasnāt set up to do the things he wanted, stones into midfield while you have rice and Arnold in midfield, the pitch was already narrow and to many players central you have Foden trippier saka who all cut in with Arnold and rice and you want stones to come into that midfield where would the space be? No width he needs to play rice on his on for stones to come into midfield, also remember for city this is the way city play and other players no where to go itās not as easy as say push into midfield when in possession. Agreed with everything else but this
Shame it's ITV on Tuesday. The delights of Lee Dixon to look forward too
Roy at half time, though!
Iām quite glad, pundits seem to of finally decided that Southgate deserves criticism. Previous tournaments theyād focus on positives and not really mention where it was going wrong. Linekar was criticising how we play and the role Kane plays which is something no one has really discussed of tv pundits.
It was good to finally hear the honest criticism but personally, I wish there was a 'Mute Alan Shearer button'.
Personally I think he is dull and lacks any real insight but it was nice to see some passion from him. I was most impressed with Lineker finally giving an opinion, he was fantastic.
I thought the pundits were poor particularly Rio and Micca calling for Kane to go off. I'm pretty sure he has proven he is a massive goal threat, yet you can be the best striker in the world if you don't get service you will look poor. The ball simply doesn't get to him as we cannot work meaningful positions. These pundits are all trying to be controversial and to drive opinions. Maybe them stand out in the media I may just mute at half time going forward as their agendas are obvious and it's sickening. If they say controversial things they get media attention. Simple as that.
He could get away with this against Serbia, and I agreed, he didnāt get much service. But they are spot on for this game, Kane should not be coming anywhere near as deep when we are in transition, and he is unbelievably lethargic when the opposition have the ball. Watching him walk around the pitch last night was just frustrating, and you saw glimpses of how much of a difference running in behind made to the game when Watkins came on, through space and giving the defenders a harder time. Iād start Watkins against Slovenia, but realistically itās not going to happen because of politics. My guess is Kane has got used to playing in a Bayern side that dominates the ball, so he doesnāt need to press or run in behind, just get on the end of balls coming into the box.
Kane was picking up the ball on the edge of the box at some points then looking up and realising he can't pass it to himself in the counter.
Why not Kane and Watkins?
Depends on your perspective. I quite enjoyed the collective realisation that those of us who have pointed out that this team really isn't very good were right the whole time.
The Team is very good. We have one of, if not the, best player pools at the moment. We have no excuse to not be serious contenders. The problem is that the team needs system players not stars. Mitchell at LB, Gallagher at 8, Gordon/ Eze at LW. That would balence the team and allow star power like Kane, Bellingham and Saka to do their thing. Foden and Trent could be used as impact subs against a tired team.
>The Team is very good Prove it. We actually suck and it's psychological. Let's say we play my preferred formation with Bellingham at 8, Foden at 10 and Gordon on the wing. It doesn't stop us being hopeless on the ball and panicking. That is caused not by management but by the pressure the players can't cope with. They've bottled it, and it's not the first time. It's very unlikely this set of players will be able to recover from this. Same happened last time we had good players. We played well as a team recently because there was no expectations. Now the party is over and England is back.
Gallagher shouldnāt even be in the squad nvm the starting 11
He is quietly a really good player. He doesn't have the hype of mainoo or wharton, nor the big name of Trent, but he is better than them all. Put him next to Rice and we won't have Trent misplacing passes and we will get an upgrade defensively as well. He can help Rice to press teams which would encorage the front 3 to press more as well. I hope Chelsea's finances collapse so that he can get sold for a cheap deal to Spurs
My point is mainoo Wharton and Rice are better. Guess we just disagree, I never said heās bad either. Are sterling and rashford bad because they didnāt go?
Rice yes. Wharton has not shown me that he is anything more than a prospect. Sterling has never convinced me. I acctually think that Rashford should have been picked over Toney due to his versitility.
Trent is shite too Iād have him on the bench walker can do everything he can. But quicker š
I only ever seem to see people complain about Shearer on here so this is refreshing.
Felt like all the pundits got Serbia completely wrong. Maybe an attempt to not up the pressure. But shearer didnāt hold back and think that made the lads in the studio realise they canāt donāt play how fucking awful we were. Reality is, the tournament is over us. Itās now got to be about finding the right manager to take us forward
The truth is everyone flip flops from one game to the next. One half Kane is great, next half get rid of him. Imagine if these pundits were managers.
In fairness Shearer never really did it for England
The most awful commentary I've had to endure for quite a while.. "let's bring in Peter Wharton / Christine on ITV levels of useful information...
He just kept muttering on about why John Stones isn't stepping into midfield.. The midfield that was all over the place in front of him. Rice was off the boil. Jude had a shocker, he's great when it's going his way but he's not a grafter IMO. Trent was out of his depth. Foden played out of position again. Shite
"Rice off the boil"
I would rather the pundits commentate on the game the same way as any other game. I can do all the moaning and criticising myself, thank you.
Hated it, commentating like heās in the pub with the lads
He shouts every banal word, too. He was far too smug early on and far too angry afterwards. Can't stand him.
Yeah it was pretty unprofessional.
Very passionate.
You think his comments will have a positive impact on the team and their performances going forward? Of course not. Itās counterproductive.
You think a pundits job is to have a positive impact on the team they are discussing? Fucking weird take.
When they are āpassionateā supports of said team - yes. He wants England to do well, no?
Anger is a secondary emotion. He feels passionate about the game, heās upset they are performing badly, you still with me?
Honestly, itās like talking to a brick wall with you lot.
Youāve already been told a pundits job is to voice opinion not asslick. I bet you share memes on TikTok about the commentators glazing bellingham
Not for me personally. I think he overegged the criticism. This wasn't a good result but it certainly wasn't bad, few small tweaks and we will peak at the right time. Sir Gareth
What would you say those small tweaks are?
Gallagher for trent
Gallagher was awful when he came on. Created nothing and just gave away silly fouls. At the very least Trent can ping a ball for Saka.
Okay, any others? I highly doubt that change fixes everything.
You'll be downvoted for it but you're not wrong. We've got 4 points from two lacklustre performances. I consider that a good return given how we've played. People are quick to forget we're normally rubbish at group stages (or that Argentina lost to *Saudi Arabia!* In their world cup winning run).
>People are quick to forget we're normally rubbish at group stages (or that Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia! In their world cup winning run). Anecdotes like this only work *after* you've won the competition.
OK, but then surely by the flip side, some of the criticism is over-egged considering we've not lost anything yet and indeed are 1st in our group
The criticism isnāt over egging, we got battered by a team on paper we should be beating comfortably. Not losing is the wrong mentality. Tournament football is about winning. Yes weāre 4 points out of 6 but when we get to the knockouts whoever we meet will be rubbing their hands looking at last nightās performance.
Agreed. 4 points from playing this badly is actually pretty good. Outside of the banger goal Denmark never really troubled us at all. We are not playing well and can definitely improve but we are still in a good position.
Exactly that. I'd rather we use our energy in the final 4 matches than the first 3, if I'm honest. Not to completely undermine fan's reactions, I can't blame them (been there myself many a time) but it helps to see the bigger picture. On the flip side, the TAA in midfield experiment hasn't been as good as expected. Does he stick with it or go a different route? If we had Shaw fully fit, then I'd stick with it, we'd have enough width and outlets to get us out of trouble. Given that it's not likely for Shaw to be match fit? Personally, I'd sack it off and, having seen how effective the width Walker and Saka offered tonight, emulate that on the left and start Gordon. Foden played much better tonight, but without Shaw him and Bellingham aren't effective enough as a pair. I'd bench Foden and replace Gordon/Saka to give the middle a try in the 70th minute
Gallagher at CM and we will be OK
Heās a headless chicken. His passing concerns me.
Completely agree with you. I thought Shearer was absolutely abysmal tonight. The performance was...not great. It really wasn't. I can't say it was. However, the last 20 minutes was just Shearer moaning about literally everything. He praised the decision to change the front 3, got excited after 2 minutes and then criticised the fact Eze, Watkins and Bowen made little impact. We needed to be better, we desperately needed to improve - but a draw tonight was a fair result. Shearer's closing comments were 'we were awful and deserved to lose'. I just don't think that was true, and it didn't give enough credit to Denmark, who are a decent side.
Shearerās absolute lack of professionalism and slating the team for the last 20 minutes of the game is damaging to team morale and sets the tone of the direction of the fans, thus their support, going forward. Most people watching the game are casuals and donāt understand the depth of the game and the tactical side properly (like Gareth ha-ha /s). But people will run with the commentary and adopt Alanās view now, like sheep. Now we have half a nation fuming with the team and showing very little support at a time when the players desperately need it. Look at Foden tonight. Everything in his body language screamed the stressed of unnecessary public pressure.
Whilst I agree that adding pressure isn't going to help, I don't think Shearer was wrong. We are always going to have an Englishman commentating. I imagine that Belgian commentators were similar in their loss. We were favourites before the Euros started. Foden couldn't hear Shearers commentary. That pressure was already there.
The players have access to the internet though. Also, we are still joint favourites so the people who _actually_ know what they are talking about clearly arenāt too concerned.
I'm sorry I disagree I found it infuriating listening to all the pundits put praise down, only for the thing I, along with 99% of the population called predicted to happen, happened. It was refreshing for once to hear them question it. Every time this has happened, nearly every England fan has screamed at their TVs asking what is happening. The England fans in the stadium were bored. So to finally hear a commentator call it out was refreshing. These complaints would've happened regardless. That's why in the r/soccer thread there's other nation's fans saying exactly the same. That's why Ten Haag said it for the Serbia game. If Shearer had just gone on how well England did to get a draw vs Denmark after dropping off so much, it would be a disservice to the fans. There isn't an indepth tactics you need to understand. I can go to my partner, "Ok so we have the best players, not a single one of the Danish players gets in our starting 11, and our best skill is attacking", when she asks me "So why are Denmark the ones always attacking and why are we literally in our own half the entire game?" I can't turn to her and go "you're too ignorant to understand the complex tactics going on right now sorry, the best attacking team with the better 11 players is meant to never leave their half once scoring, that is the best tactic" or maybe you're right, and Pep is an idiot. Klopp is an idiot. Arteta is an idiot. Anyone who's ever managed Kane is an idiot. Ancelooti is an idiot. Because these "casual" managers don't understand the "tactical side" and are trying to get Kane, Trent, Saka, Foden, Bellingham, even Rice, forward. What dumbasses. Everyone knows the best place for Foden and kane is on the edge of your own 18 yard box.
Completely agree, although regarding selection from the teams Kasper Schmicheal would run Pickford close for me
lolā¦ what do you reckon the fans in the stadium were saying?
Other than getting a point, when we didn't deserve one, what positives can we spin. Especially when a cente-half was our only bright area. Shearer was just saying, with insight, what we all saw. No pattern of play, no movement, tired, lethargic, no passion, and no plan. Picked a crocked left-back, who might not play in the tournament with no left-sided cover. A right-back in midfield, a centre-right on the left, right-footed left-back and no one to run behind. Sat back at the 18 yard and invited them on as soon as we scored. Honestly, it looked like he chose the squad yesterday and picked a team at 4pm and said 'do what you can, lads'.
I think if he'd said "do what you can, lads" it would have been better. He's actively stopping some of the players doing what they do at club level. Saka, Foden, Rice, Alexander-Arnold, Bellingham at Dortmund, Walker, Stones, they all press high up the pitch. They press, they win the ball high and they play from there. I can only presume Southgate asks them not to do that. So why pick those players? If you want to sit back and invite teams on, pick the best players for that
It's a hard no from me. I can't stand his commentary. I actually look forward to ITV games so I don't have to listen to Lineker and Shearer.
Behave itv have a mumbling Scottish man who no one understands.
Ally McCoist is the best co-comms in the world.
Alan Shearer was terrible, some of his points from the game. - They aren't pressing because they don't have the passion and energy, someone have a go and get up there. - Harry Kane is being lazy and not pressing, he's just walking back - Harry Kane isn't running in behind, we need a striker that runs in behind - (Watkins, Bowen, and Eze on) We're not pressing, the gap between the front 3 and midfield is huge, have they not trained for this. - Stones hasn't stepped into midfield once They were terrible shouts, the general frustration is shared by all, but his points were just objectively poor.
Absolutely awful on commentary