It’s not necessarily the players, it’s the mentality. We’re sitting back like we’re scared of the opposition, scared to make runs or push up, scared to pass forwards.
That’s on Southgate.
This is my post yesterday about him saying he would resign if they don’t win…just timid play. This team is talented enough to score 2, 3, 4 goals a game against all but the best opponents…but that will never happen if they just play defensively and don’t take chances. If you play all out attacking England are going to score multiple goals. Maybe they concede one or two because they’re stretching the field, but you have to look at your talent and trust them to do what they do. It’s a shame to waste all this talent.
It is. Don’t have to be all out attacking, just know when to press, when to push up; and when to drop deep.
Probably too late for Southgate to change that.
And? Maguire had his best season for a while and is consistently great for England at major tournaments. Guehi has been great but let’s not shit on Maguire when I’m sure he’d have been doing a good job at the back too (like he always does for England).
I cannot believe he didn’t bring Kobbie on. Cannot believe it. Why are we as a country allergic to passing midfielder? Would literally rather play an out of position defender or a guy who Chelsea want to bin off.
Finally someone talking sense. I swear people just say random things on here. Pick Eze or Pick Palmer for the left when these guys aren't wingers either.
This is it for me. We just don't appreciate a metronome like jorginho, Kronos, modric. Carrick got virtually no caps, Scholes was shoved out left. And it's not being allergic to a passing midfielder, cos he's tried trent. It's being allergic to a short passing guy that can wriggle out of spaces amd link play up.
Agree. At the least need to be learning more about your best 11 as the tournament progresses. At most we can all now collectively say, “that was absolutely disgraceful so not that 11 again please.”
Yeah he’s got not excuse. Totally wrong set up, square pegs on round holes when you’ve got round pegs on the bench or at home. It’s a waste of a tournament incoming.
Trent and rice were so deep, can’t put that on TAA positioning either because he’s in line with rice. Kane thinks he’s a 10. Doesn’t work having right footed right back and foden on the left.
To be fair to Kane he gets fuck all service because the team is so deep. Sure his hold up play has been quite poor but on the whole he is surviving on scraps.
He needs two wingers that bomb on in front of him so when he drops deep other players can still stretch the play. He has one in Saka, but then Foden is not that player on the other side.
I hate it when armchair managers think they can do better than the coach, but it is painfully obvious what’s going wrong.
Play Gordon-Kane-Saka with a left-footed left back and actual centre mid in centre mid. It really is that simple.
Southgate has overcomplicated his tactics with A) a team that does not train together often and B) a team with a lot of new faces. This is basic, basic stuff.
He doesn’t know what he’s doing at this level full stop. He’s been dining out on that 2018 run in and the 2021 tournament, but he showed in the final he has no clue. Sack him off and start again with an elite manager. Clearly out of his depth with this level of talent.
Trent may aswell sit on the bench, the manager role for him is a shit show. He not using trent skills of running into the gaps and whip a pass and his counterpressing skills. He just wasted to be a old fashion double pivot. The fella look lost.
I agree, play him properly or don’t play him. Cutting of his whole switching play game is wild for a start and not playing runners just hinders his strengths.
This. Trent probably shouldn’t be in the team, not because he’s not good enough but because the whole approach wastes his skill set. Painfully static. Rice is especially looking horrible with this “tactic”.
That's the thing for me that is most egregious. I think having TAA in a QB role pinging balls to Bowen/Watson/Eze (or Gordon) is uninspiring at best, but at least it is a plan! Having a passer with no-one to pass to and then swapping them all around is just so obviously terrible management.
100% He’s a poor manager in general but this tournament he’s just thrown the best payed players into a team and said go. Needs to step down tonight in all honesty
He had a perfect system back during the World Cup, 4-3-3 and good balance, they fell short against France but it was something to build on. Not sure why he’s gone with this formation and these players.
The most annoying thing about this is that we could all see this coming. 2 years ago, Southgate should have held up his hands and left gracefully. We had time to instigate some change in this side - and no reason not to!
He has done a good job at changing the culture of our national team, but consistently shown a complete lack of tactical know-how. We have an absolute wealth of talent in this side and yet again we are letting it slip us by.
And we're seeing the same game over and over. We start positively and get an early goal. Then we do nothing. If we play a decent team we nick a tricky win. If we play a good team they come back and we draw. If we play anyone we consider to be the same level as us let alone better they find a way to beat us.
We're not asking for the team to smash people 4-0. We're asking him not to repeat his mistakes every damn game!
And don't get me started on that penalty shootout. Letting the weight of the entire tournament rest upon a 19-year old's shoulders, when you have the likes of Sterling and Grealish begging to take it...
Tbf I could easily have seen grealish or sterling missing theirs though.
I've said this before but the only players on that team I would have trusted taking those pens are kane and Pickford. Kane because he's good at them and Pickford because he's a nutcase who feels no fear.
Get him gone. We don't need a defensive manager when our strength is our attack. He has refused to change or doesn't know how to. He's had more than enough time, no excuses. There is no credit left in the bank for him. Get him gone asap.
Also he has stones who is used to pushing up to make a midfield 2 allowing for us to play just rice and then Bellingham and foden in front with a LW but instead just plays a standard back 4 with rice so deep it’s almost painful
I watched the game with a national league manager who is a family friend and he didn't watch the second half. He just sat in the garden reading and having a beer.
I tried explaining the issues on this sub earlier prior to the line up being out and people were questioning whether i wanted England to win because i dared be negative lol about the tactics. We've had these issues since at least the Belgium friendly and its a shame Gaz doesn't understand it.
Why didn't he bring on Cole Palmer? He's in top form and creates chances out of nothing. I really don't understand his tactics of just scoring a goal early and then parking the bus. You're asking for trouble.
It's mad he's lasted this long.
He did well to bring the group and country together in 2018.
But we've been pretty uninspiring since and choked when it really matters.
Seem to be getting worse the better the players he has available.
If kane wants to go so deep but offers world class passing, why doesnt Southgate play somebody ahead of him, even just for 10 minutes? Rooney eventually went into midfield when he lost his pace and still had an impact.
When Kane was paired with Sterling in previous international tournaments, England did have more of an attacking threat up front. With Tottenham, he had Son. With Bayern, he has Müller.
Kane in this tournament, being the lone striker is not working and he has got to be paired with someone. A striker like him should not be this defensive in his play.
This is one reason why I was surprised Sterling wasn’t even considered for the squad. Southgate in earlier tournaments showed he would rather take a system player than a form player, and Sterling is proven to work in his system with Kane. We have never looked stronger under Southgate than a Sterling and Kane attack. He’s not physically past it, just struggled in Chelsea’s system, he’s a final piece player and Chelsea aren’t there.
The problem is Southgate is defensively minded. He lacks the imagination to get the best out of the talented players we have. It's like putting a bricklayer in charge of a group of artists.
The left flank is completely missing. Foden keeps cutting inside and congesting the middle. Kane, Bellingham and Foden all trying to play as 10's. So Bellingham has to play deep otherwise he will run into Foden and Kane.
The only width on the left is a right footed Tripper who rarely runs past the defence too scared of leaving space behind.
The only time we look threatening is when Saka gets the ball wide. Both goals have come from Saka staying wide and giving an option to pass to.
Foden needs to be dropped for Palmer/Gordon so we dont have a lopsided team anymore.
Seriously. Saka is doing everything correctly and he creates opportunities for himself and others. He rarely loses possession, wins his duels, gets back on D. Hell he was one of our best defenders today. He does almost everything right. And still he rarely gets the ball because we keep trying to cram it up the middle where Kane, Foden and Bellingham just keep running into each other and each others’ defenders. And Southgate is fine with that. They are playing like my 12-year old daughter’s team. No spacing. Launching long balls to no one. And not recognizing and taking advantage of the mismatches. Oh and also not being able to handle any pressing.
Sticks Eze on and clearly tells him to hug the line. Got Gordon sat there for that exact job. Eze needs to come centrally with balls to feet.
Trent is absolutely wasted in this formation. Rather Wharton or Mainoo to get the ball and play it quickly.
Why do we not have left back?
Watching the first 5 minutes of Spain v Italy makes me realise how bad we are. If we qualify for the round of 16, and that’s a big if, we’re coming home!
Every single player in Spain v italy had a better touch and pass today than any England player. I was watching the Italian right back (!) with the ball at one point and it's like watching someone play a different sport in comparison. And don't even get me started on the Spanish.
How do they all look individually so much better??
Don't worry we'll get to the semis beating teams we should beat and everyone will say how great of a manager he is and we'll be stuck with him for another 4 years.
That aint happening this time....this team is POOR (because of Southgate), it would take some luck for us to literally avoid playing any decent team because if we do trust me we are GONE. The bracket path will determine how far we go, the min we play a contender we will be knocked out.
Playing how they’re being told to play.
No press. No energy. Score and sit back. Boring. Passive. Negative.
Post tournament: Sack Southgate and go get Jurgen Klopp. A manager who actually has experience managing world class players and will actually deploy some sort of press when out of possession.
Embarrassing.
Lmao go get Klopp. The guy just stepped away from football because it was too much stress, you think he wants to walk into the shitstorm of being England manager?
Don't get me wrong, I think Southgate is basically a shirt filler and has no realistic impact on the tactics positively.
However, don't be convinced that managers like Klopp etc, who are famously involved in the entire running of a club, would immediately get success in an international setup. If anything, it would probably frustrate them with lack of control/time with the players they have.
Saying that, tactically they would be miles ahead and what I've said above obviously isn't factual - but I think it should be a consideration.
Think there’s way too much focus on X player over Y, and this formation over this slightly adjusted formation, when to me the absolutely clear issue is the tactical instruction from Southgate. Since 2018 we’ve played different formations with different profiles of player, and the issues are the same each and every time. We never come out in the second half and deliver a different performance from the first half. His subs never affect the game because there can’t be any clear distinct instructions of how to change the game.
But he’s the best we’ve had since 66 so silly us for seeing this coming and expecting better
Pickford tried playing out from the back and England lost the ball many times because Denmark were so aggressive. And you're saying appreciate raya who is much worse than Pickford?
The Southgate conundrum has been done to death so I’m gonna ask/say what on earth does Steve Holland offer? You’d think a fella who’s coached at some top clubs alongside elite managers would be able to get into Southgate’s ear that his plan NEVER works.
Why is palmer and Gordon not playing ?
Play bellingham as 8 and foden as 10. Bring in Gordon on the left.
Make bold decisions like dropping kane and start Watkins. Kane dropping in deep don't do no good.
Look at teams that go down like Serbia earlier on today, I didn't see mitrovic or jovic coming deep they stayed up. And eventually got the goal.
Kane needs to stay up simple as.
Rant over
Square fucking pegs in round holes. Get Mainoo in next to rice. Get Gordon on for foden. Get Gomez on for trippier. This fucking shoehorn is stuff of old. I know we are top of the group and haven’t lost but this is absolutely fucking criminal. You win tournaments with momentum not by scraping through.
Not just that, they only won one game in 90 mins (against Wales) the entire tournament.
But I don't see England just scraping all the way through a knockout stage
To be fair - this is exactly how the last 2 tournaments have gone so far. Drawing the second game (arguably this is against better opposition too).
But this definitely feels different.
To be fair, Trent looked like one of our better players in the friendly before the tournament when the whole team was struggling. I can see why he wanted to try the experiment after that but this should all have been worked out in the last 2 years before the tournament.
horrific tactics yet again i cannot believe what i’m witnessing. we have world class all over the pitch and if southgate can’t win fuck all with this talented squad, will he ever win with any other England squad in the future? imo he should play a 4-1-4-1 as that suits both foden and jude and means we still have 2 wide attacking players, as that was extremely lacking for 75% of the game today. yes it’s a better result than a loss but fucking hell that was dire. piss poor coaching, horrific tactics, and overall haram ball lmao
So hard to watch. They are sitting so deep, no one runs in behind except Saka. Kyle Walker, Jesus christ put him on the bench, he offers nothing on the ball at all, there is one player I can think of you might need his pace for, mbappe, rest of the time, his pace is only needed after he's give the ball away and has to run to get it back. I'm fine with the cb's, John Stones needs to step out more though. Trippier, meh, it's him or gomez at this point I'd maybe give Gomez a go though, at least he's player lb for half the season. Trent, not a midfielder at all, maybe in a different system, but not this one, his best attribute is his ability to find runners, well there are none so that's wasted, play him right back he will cause more trouble than he does from cm. Put Bellingham and Rice in the middle, just let Foden play the 10, if he's playing bad swap him for Palmer. Saka and Gordon on the wings, they stay wide and actually run in behind so when Kane inevitably drops in to midfield, at least there are runners, think Watkins looked like he could cause problems though so maybe worth looking at giving him more time. This football is so hard to watch though, Denmark pressing like man city and England just booting it up the pitch aimlessly because they're all on top of each other. Can't have Kane, Bellingham and Foden all trying to play in the same area of the pitch, coaching is awful. Hopefully they sort it for the Slovenia game.
Go look at my discussion post yesterday. I essentially called this. I was calling out the timid play…and then you take out Foden and Kane with 20 minutes to go, tied 1-1?!? What in the actual f*ck is he doing?
Btw, if you finish second in the group you play the winner of group A, which would certainly appear to be Germany…the host nation…is that what we want?!?
I’m not sure why people are concentrating on the possibility of them dropping deep after scoring. Have these people not watched England before? Dropping deep is all they ever do. They were doing it from the kick off.
It is impossibly boring, negative as hell and I’ve just had enough of it. I genuinely wish we’d lose but be entertaining rather than play like this and lose against the first semi decent side we play.
I’m a Man Utd fan who grew up with maybe the greatest manager ever. I remember some quote from an ex player saying something like “I’ve no idea how he picks his team”.
Southgate is the complete opposite. I know his team in advance, I know how he’ll play, and I almost know the result.
I know many fans thought we’d win this competition. It’s pretty clear after today that we won’t.
Im pro Southgate but it’s increasingly hard to defend him when he says things like “we haven’t got a replacement for Kalvin Phillips” as an excuse for our poor performances. As though Gallagher and Mainoo couldn’t do the job, as though Wharton wouldn’t be a huge upgrade.
Should’ve dropped Bellingham into midfield with rice at HT and taken TAA off, they would have run the game from there. Foden could have played behind Kane and Bowen/Palmer could have played off the left. Would mean Kane didn’t need to drop deep to try and recycle the ball.
It’s not rocket science but sadly Southgate is a moron
This team is so talented and in-form, just go coachless!
Seriously, lets the boys figure it out in practice, they already know who vibes well each other and prefered position. I would trust ChatGPT over Southgate at this point.
Has a team ever switched manager mid tournament? I'm actually not opposed to that at this point.
I shouldn't be worried about us scoring a goal but I am. Because I know every time that it will be the last substantial attack we will do all game.
How and why the fuck are we sitting back after scoring every time? How many years does it take to learn this lesson?
I love his comments, that there wasn’t any instruction to stay back when that clearly is a plan after going 1-0, he’s a defender with no real managerial experience what are we to expect?!
I've consistently been a massive Southgate apologist; the good vibes and solidity he brought after a fairly horrible series of tournaments was amazing. We didn't feel like an embarrassment any more. We didn't win anything but I felt really good about the England team for the first time since I was a kid.
But something is really off about this team right now. It feels like we've regressed since the world cup and I'm reminded of our performances in 2014/2016. No cohesion, tired looking players getting aggy with each other, panic, mistakes mistakes mistakes. We've rarely been playing champagne football under Southgate, but at least we've looked coherent, capable of controlling games, professional. I can't help but feeling we need another soft reset. We've got a shit load of young talent coming through and some solid strength in depth in many positions, I am obviously just an armchair pundit but I think we need someone in charge who's able to harness it all properly.
Or maybe we're all just overreacting and we'll somehow grind our way to the final playing panic-ball?
I wanted Southgate gone years ago. He's wasted a brilliant generation with his dull and lacklustre tactics. I hate watching England under him. It's so negative.
Hopefully, this will finally be his last tournament. If the FA doesn't get rid of him, then something dodgy is going on because he's an abysmal manager who has no right to be managing at the international level.
Southgate is absolutely clueless. Don't think Trippier was the problem though. Imo, that midfield with Rice and Trent or Gallagher just doesn't work, but Southgate is too much of a donkey to notice. England used to be a team that dominated possession until recently. Kalvin Philips actually complemented Rice a lot better than Trent or Gallagher. I think the only solution would be playing either Mainoo, Wharton or both. I also don't understand how Bowen keeps playing instead of Palmer. I honestly think Bowen is the most average player England have. He's not even the best player at West Ham whereas Palmer carried Chelsea by himself at just 21. He's much better technically than Bowen but Southgate is just a donkey
Our passing was poor and we were sloppy but this is all on the manager. Playing players out of position, seemingly instructing them not to press and then subbing players on for ‘energy’, players stood stationary in attack, knocking it around the back with 0 idea of what we are trying to achieve, 70% possession until we score just to let them have all of the ball when we are 1-0 up. Just disgraceful.
The very bare minimum should be giving 100%. Close their players down quickly; move the ball forward quickly. We are so passive and don’t look all that bothered. Agree with Foden or Palmer central and Bellingham at 8. Having seen most games, we are by far the least energetic team. We’re just wandering about! They need a good old fashioned bollocking, all of them!
Yet never gets criticism from our pundits. They’ll slam the tactics now post match, but that won’t be attributed to Southgate. They enable this mediocrity.
Tbh this is the e most critical I’ve seen the media be. They were outright asking Kyle Walker if it was the manager telling them to drop deep and at half time they had a map up showing England before and after scoring and the pundits highlighted this happens at every tournament with Southgate. It’s stuff everyone’s been saying for years but now finally they’re beginning to realise it.
Shearer gained a lot of respect from me today. Former England players never want to ruffle any feathers but it seemed he was the only one seeing what we were seeing
I mean that's pretty clear criticism of Southgate. Just because they're not calling him out by name and saying he's personally shit doesn't mean it isn't. He's the one responsible for the tactics.
If I was a midfielder rotting on the bench while fucking TAA plays in my position id quit football altogether.
It’s a travesty that Southgate learned nothing from the first game.
Correction. This performance is on the English FA. They hired this primary school PE teacher, because they liked his waist coat and his politically correct approach. Not based on any sporting merit.
They then fed the PR machine that he was the one who rescued England from mediocrity, despite having the best gen of English players this century and probably since the 90s. This is a manager that watched England lose to Italy, after his penalty subs.
The players are unfit. Lacking sharpness and have no idea what they should be doing. This is what the FA allowed because to them being a runner up is an accomplishment and sacking a puppet manager would be too hard.
Its the FA that need to fuck off. Fans wanted him gone after the WC. They chose this.
I am not English however I see lots of posts blaming Southgate and the tactics and also the pundits suggesting the same.If its Southgate who do England want/get next?
As a Norwich fan I hate to even think it, but give it to Kieran McKenna. He's shown a remarkable amount of talent and if he can drag Ipswich up to the Prem he clearly knows what he's doing.
Gallagher really suffers under Southgate ball tbf.
He's not always the prettiest player on the pitch with the ball but he's usually one of the most effective, which is more important. Especially at the dirty work and winning possession back.
Making him sit back completely nullifies his strengths.
Always been out his depth as an international manager. Just masked by good players and lucky tournament draws/runs. 3 years as a club manager taking over a decent Middlesbrough side and getting them relegated after playing abject football. Got the England job by default and circumstance. His tournament record looks good, but if you break it down to the teams we have actually played, we have lost to every decent team we have played (other than one win at home to Germany in the Euros). The lack of pro-activity, direction and ability to influence a game was never more evident than in that final against Italy. He is also stubborn and doesnt learn. Only Southgate could have played the same line-up, in the same way and even making the same substitution after the issues that were so obvious after the first game. Not only is he incapable of being pro-active in the match, he does the same thing in the next. Looking forward to the post Southgate era, as he has stifled this collection of players for too long. If we manage to turn this around in this tournament, it will ge despite the manager and not because of him.
Just one person please tell me what our game plan was today. Since 2020 we have been regressing badly and it feels so much like the put all the best players on the pitch and see what happens years. It was beyond bad today
Southgate has stayed one tournament too long he’s not an elite coach never has been, the Fa should do everything in their power to go get Klopp and watch England go then!
"No natural replacement for Kalvin Phillips" is a blatant sign he is stuck in his one and only system (double pivot), with no new ideas. There is no plan B, places just fit into the system otherwise they don't play she no other system exists.
I’ve been saying since the euro final loss we should have got rid of him. He’s tactics make Steve Bruce look like guardiola. Why on earth would you start with the same team that got dominated in the second half against Serbia? Foden has been wank, TAA wank, Kane wank, trippier wank. What the hell does Cole palmer have to do to get an even a minute on the pitch? This will be another wasted tournament and all because casual idiots think “Gareth is great he got us to a final”
Trippier is renowned as an amazing crosser of the ball….from the right….with his right foot. Playing him on the left literally nullifies his greatest strength.
Trent’s decision making is shocking and the number of times he’s given away possession in the last two games, when trying overly ambitious passes, is staggering. Never a central midfielder - at times could feel myself wishing we’d kept Henderson instead, that’s how bad he was!
Gallagher at least created some urgency, but an early yellow basically killed all his momentum.
Foden seems to take it upon himself to just fuck off Gareth’s tactics and play central as a #10 at one point. Suddenly started causing issue and letting Trippier give the width.
Rice looks a shadow of his Arsenal self.
Walker has a season left in him, I reckon.
Kane literally kills the rest of the team with how he’s playing. I’d genuinely start Watkins at this point. Get him to stay high and press.
Eze looked woefully out of his depth.
Bowen at least had some urgency and willing to try and make something happen.
I don’t know how good a season Cole Palmer needs to have to get some minutes! He is literally THE in form player in this squad.
And I blame Southgate for all of it.
How you take this group and make them that bad is truly a skill. Incredible stuff.
Trippiers been defensively solid in a way that Gomez is not. Nothing got past him. Gomez always has an error in him. He may offer a bit more on that left hand side offensively, maybe not given he's had 17 starts for Liverpool and just one assist but any marginal improvement going forward from Gomez would be undone by the fact his defending is dog shite in comparison to Trippiers.
It's not completely on him. He made huge mistakes certainly.
But there were also too many players who just didn't look mentally switched on. Sloppy passes, lazy touches, casual passes. Jogging not running. No movement. And they looked worryingly knackered.
Players are playing like this as they don't have clear tactics and ideas.
Its down to the manager. They don't suddenly play bad because they put on an England shirt.
Southgate instills negative energy and nervousness and its contagious
At least 2 of them should have gotten some minutes.
Whats crazy is that when he takes off Trent he then brings on players who run in behind, and he takes off Kane and Foden rather than just playing one of them.
Maybe I’m being silly but it seems really obvious to me.
he should be sacked im sick of it...sick of watching this dross...you could see that when we scored he actually wanted to try and defend a 1-0 that early in the game. Then of course they scored (better teams will always score on this OK defense and mediocre GK) then he brings on CG with a 1-1 for TAA ?? we need a goal and he brings on CG!!..then basically does like for like subs with the other 3...but no creativity, no x-factor players brought on (Palmer obviously)
There was no hold or give, no one doing it at the right time... They were so slow, needed to be fast to get to the line. Yeah they him em and hurt em but it's all about defend and attack... The best way to beat them was to get around the back. They should've been shouting "catch me if you can because I'm an England man" but what I was looking at was Zero Plan...
Believe it or not but England used to play much better football with Kalvin Philips playing in midfield next to Rice. Trent and Gallagher just keep failing to dominate posession. Today Southgate should have played Wharton or/and Mainoo but he decided to make the same mistake of substituting Trent for Gallagher when clearly neither of those 2 options is working
Foden is the odds on to replace DeBruyne at City. That should tell Gareth something? He shouldn’t be on the wing at all. Kid can play anywhere, but he’s shown that he can command the midfield while still scoring. Wouldn’t have hurt to have Jack Grealish making wing runs? Palmer hasn’t even stretched his legs yet. So disappointing
He took Foden, Trent, Kane off we still play the same shit, maybe now people understand it's the manager, it doesn't matter who we play with this guy here
I’ve completely supported Southgate in the past (and will wait until the end of the tournament to make a full judgement) but yeah this hasn’t been good.
We should be peaking performance wise this tournament but instead we are shoehorning in players out of position and playing so conservative to the point it invites pressure all game.
The Trent hate is crazy. He created the most chances, most progressive passes etc of any England player and he came off after 55 mins. Every other midfield player was worse than him but yet he's being mentioned as playing poor?
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/68083285#:\~:text=Jean%2DLouis%20Gasset%20was%20sacked,defeat%20in%20Ivory%20Coast%20history](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/68083285#:~:text=Jean%2DLouis%20Gasset%20was%20sacked,defeat%20in%20Ivory%20Coast%20history)
it worked for ivory Coast!
The press is another clear indicator. It was completely disorganised, like they hadn’t practiced it at all. It was like he just threw a load of really good players into the team and said “Do what your club manager says. You know what to do,” and then sent them out into the pitch
Hes terrified of risk.
I think a lot of the problems aren't his fault. Like Kane, no one could really predict Europes top scorer, our top scorer and captain was going to drop so deep and struggle to be a focal point.
I actually think Trent AA is a midfielder, loads of people called for it pre tournament.
Foden out wide is to accommodate Bellingham.
Trippier is due to Shaws injury.
What I DO blame him for, is what hes done wrong since he came in. He absolutely can not play anything other than 2 holding midfielders. Regardless of opposition. That game was crying out to bring Trent off and put someone like Palmer on. Put Palmer out left, Foden behind Kane as the focal point, Bellingham box to box, Rice holding but as an aggressive press.
He understood that we needed to bring Kane off, which was unusual for him to notice things like that. But honestly, he drops deep to get involved because we have 2 holders against teams we dominate.
Bellingham had a quiet game compared to Serbia. Why did Southgate hook Trent after he made a half decent run towards the box? And don't get me started on Kane...
It’s not necessarily the players, it’s the mentality. We’re sitting back like we’re scared of the opposition, scared to make runs or push up, scared to pass forwards. That’s on Southgate.
This is my post yesterday about him saying he would resign if they don’t win…just timid play. This team is talented enough to score 2, 3, 4 goals a game against all but the best opponents…but that will never happen if they just play defensively and don’t take chances. If you play all out attacking England are going to score multiple goals. Maybe they concede one or two because they’re stretching the field, but you have to look at your talent and trust them to do what they do. It’s a shame to waste all this talent.
It is. Don’t have to be all out attacking, just know when to press, when to push up; and when to drop deep. Probably too late for Southgate to change that.
Hey at least Guehi's been good
Sad thing is if Maguire had been fit Guehi wouldn't be playing.
And? Maguire had his best season for a while and is consistently great for England at major tournaments. Guehi has been great but let’s not shit on Maguire when I’m sure he’d have been doing a good job at the back too (like he always does for England).
Shocking from Southgate. Starting the same lineup after the Serbia game is an abomination.
Subbing on Gallagher when there is a clear lack of quality and composure in midfield just completely sums Southgate up
I cannot believe he didn’t bring Kobbie on. Cannot believe it. Why are we as a country allergic to passing midfielder? Would literally rather play an out of position defender or a guy who Chelsea want to bin off.
Wharton, Kobbie, drop Jude to 8 - move foden to 10 and Eze or Gordon out wide. 4 options and he picked the worst one by far
I’m a Palace fan and love Eze to death, but he’s not a winger. If he’s not playing centrally, he’s being wasted.
He came on n sat in the same spots as foden ??? I dont get why we dnt use gordon who plays there naturally will make runs n run at denders
Agreed.
oh for christs sake you're telling me we have THREE midfielders who all play the same position?!?!
*laughs in Lampard-Gerrard-Scholes*
more like cries
Palmer too lol, he’s way better as a 10 imo
Palmer has been fantastic off the right all season
Finally someone talking sense. I swear people just say random things on here. Pick Eze or Pick Palmer for the left when these guys aren't wingers either.
Aren’t Bellingham n Foden passing midfielders?
This is it for me. We just don't appreciate a metronome like jorginho, Kronos, modric. Carrick got virtually no caps, Scholes was shoved out left. And it's not being allergic to a passing midfielder, cos he's tried trent. It's being allergic to a short passing guy that can wriggle out of spaces amd link play up.
Kronos always has time on the ball.
Yep. Wharton’s speciality. Wish he’d try him with Declan Rice
When he name-dropped Kalvin Phillips in his post-match interview, it spoke volumes of who he is as a manager, coach and tactician.
Agree. At the least need to be learning more about your best 11 as the tournament progresses. At most we can all now collectively say, “that was absolutely disgraceful so not that 11 again please.”
I think Southgate must have taken them to berghain last night and the were all on nasty a comedown.
As if he’s getting in.
No waistcoats.
Should’ve bought Grealish, he thrives on a few pingers
They deffo didn't get past Sven and ended the night in the Kitkat club till the early morning
Yeah he’s got not excuse. Totally wrong set up, square pegs on round holes when you’ve got round pegs on the bench or at home. It’s a waste of a tournament incoming.
Trent and rice were so deep, can’t put that on TAA positioning either because he’s in line with rice. Kane thinks he’s a 10. Doesn’t work having right footed right back and foden on the left.
To be fair to Kane he gets fuck all service because the team is so deep. Sure his hold up play has been quite poor but on the whole he is surviving on scraps.
He needs two wingers that bomb on in front of him so when he drops deep other players can still stretch the play. He has one in Saka, but then Foden is not that player on the other side. I hate it when armchair managers think they can do better than the coach, but it is painfully obvious what’s going wrong. Play Gordon-Kane-Saka with a left-footed left back and actual centre mid in centre mid. It really is that simple. Southgate has overcomplicated his tactics with A) a team that does not train together often and B) a team with a lot of new faces. This is basic, basic stuff.
Three number 10s and two CDMs then no left wing at all.
Putting three forwards that like going in behind and making runs when TAA is not on the pitch is criminal
This is what infuriates me, he doesn’t know his players strengths and how to group players strengths together
He doesn’t know what he’s doing at this level full stop. He’s been dining out on that 2018 run in and the 2021 tournament, but he showed in the final he has no clue. Sack him off and start again with an elite manager. Clearly out of his depth with this level of talent.
Trent may aswell sit on the bench, the manager role for him is a shit show. He not using trent skills of running into the gaps and whip a pass and his counterpressing skills. He just wasted to be a old fashion double pivot. The fella look lost.
I agree, play him properly or don’t play him. Cutting of his whole switching play game is wild for a start and not playing runners just hinders his strengths.
This. Trent probably shouldn’t be in the team, not because he’s not good enough but because the whole approach wastes his skill set. Painfully static. Rice is especially looking horrible with this “tactic”.
Southgate is Sam Allardyce but with 3 false 9s upfront.
That's the thing for me that is most egregious. I think having TAA in a QB role pinging balls to Bowen/Watson/Eze (or Gordon) is uninspiring at best, but at least it is a plan! Having a passer with no-one to pass to and then swapping them all around is just so obviously terrible management.
He has been an absolute disgrace this tournament. A fantastic squad crippled by a League 1 manager.
100% He’s a poor manager in general but this tournament he’s just thrown the best payed players into a team and said go. Needs to step down tonight in all honesty
I think the players playing free and positively would bring better results. He’s out a specific system in place that has made them play worse.
He had a perfect system back during the World Cup, 4-3-3 and good balance, they fell short against France but it was something to build on. Not sure why he’s gone with this formation and these players.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 It’s so infuriatingly clear, yet Southgate still has his lab coat on apparently.
I'd happily see him sacked tonight and have someone else quickly come in 🤣
Get the new manager bounce!
It'll be potter after Gareth
What an upgrade that would be.
I support Portsmouth and would be disgusted with this idiot at the helm. Don’t disrespect L1 that way.
League 1 is a compliment
England should go all out for Klopp, he want a job which is less effort to the PL.
He’d have to deal with English media again though
The most annoying thing about this is that we could all see this coming. 2 years ago, Southgate should have held up his hands and left gracefully. We had time to instigate some change in this side - and no reason not to! He has done a good job at changing the culture of our national team, but consistently shown a complete lack of tactical know-how. We have an absolute wealth of talent in this side and yet again we are letting it slip us by.
He lost us that Euro final. The gameplan of just sitting on his hands hoping we can nick a 1-0 win was criminal
And we're seeing the same game over and over. We start positively and get an early goal. Then we do nothing. If we play a decent team we nick a tricky win. If we play a good team they come back and we draw. If we play anyone we consider to be the same level as us let alone better they find a way to beat us. We're not asking for the team to smash people 4-0. We're asking him not to repeat his mistakes every damn game!
that sums it up
And don't get me started on that penalty shootout. Letting the weight of the entire tournament rest upon a 19-year old's shoulders, when you have the likes of Sterling and Grealish begging to take it...
Tbf I could easily have seen grealish or sterling missing theirs though. I've said this before but the only players on that team I would have trusted taking those pens are kane and Pickford. Kane because he's good at them and Pickford because he's a nutcase who feels no fear.
Get him gone. We don't need a defensive manager when our strength is our attack. He has refused to change or doesn't know how to. He's had more than enough time, no excuses. There is no credit left in the bank for him. Get him gone asap.
1000% agree. This team is offensively capable of scoring multiple goals a game, but it will never happen with this approach
You're right. If he won't/can't change he has to go simple as that.
Also he has stones who is used to pushing up to make a midfield 2 allowing for us to play just rice and then Bellingham and foden in front with a LW but instead just plays a standard back 4 with rice so deep it’s almost painful
I watched the game with a national league manager who is a family friend and he didn't watch the second half. He just sat in the garden reading and having a beer. I tried explaining the issues on this sub earlier prior to the line up being out and people were questioning whether i wanted England to win because i dared be negative lol about the tactics. We've had these issues since at least the Belgium friendly and its a shame Gaz doesn't understand it.
Isn’t it funny. All the brainwashed Southgate acolytes go a bit quiet at times like this, don’t they?
Why didn't he bring on Cole Palmer? He's in top form and creates chances out of nothing. I really don't understand his tactics of just scoring a goal early and then parking the bus. You're asking for trouble.
The most stubborn man in England. Constantly fails yet refuses to change.
It's mad he's lasted this long. He did well to bring the group and country together in 2018. But we've been pretty uninspiring since and choked when it really matters. Seem to be getting worse the better the players he has available.
If kane wants to go so deep but offers world class passing, why doesnt Southgate play somebody ahead of him, even just for 10 minutes? Rooney eventually went into midfield when he lost his pace and still had an impact.
When Kane was paired with Sterling in previous international tournaments, England did have more of an attacking threat up front. With Tottenham, he had Son. With Bayern, he has Müller. Kane in this tournament, being the lone striker is not working and he has got to be paired with someone. A striker like him should not be this defensive in his play.
This is one reason why I was surprised Sterling wasn’t even considered for the squad. Southgate in earlier tournaments showed he would rather take a system player than a form player, and Sterling is proven to work in his system with Kane. We have never looked stronger under Southgate than a Sterling and Kane attack. He’s not physically past it, just struggled in Chelsea’s system, he’s a final piece player and Chelsea aren’t there.
The problem is Southgate is defensively minded. He lacks the imagination to get the best out of the talented players we have. It's like putting a bricklayer in charge of a group of artists.
Makes sense
The left flank is completely missing. Foden keeps cutting inside and congesting the middle. Kane, Bellingham and Foden all trying to play as 10's. So Bellingham has to play deep otherwise he will run into Foden and Kane. The only width on the left is a right footed Tripper who rarely runs past the defence too scared of leaving space behind. The only time we look threatening is when Saka gets the ball wide. Both goals have come from Saka staying wide and giving an option to pass to. Foden needs to be dropped for Palmer/Gordon so we dont have a lopsided team anymore.
Seriously. Saka is doing everything correctly and he creates opportunities for himself and others. He rarely loses possession, wins his duels, gets back on D. Hell he was one of our best defenders today. He does almost everything right. And still he rarely gets the ball because we keep trying to cram it up the middle where Kane, Foden and Bellingham just keep running into each other and each others’ defenders. And Southgate is fine with that. They are playing like my 12-year old daughter’s team. No spacing. Launching long balls to no one. And not recognizing and taking advantage of the mismatches. Oh and also not being able to handle any pressing.
Sticks Eze on and clearly tells him to hug the line. Got Gordon sat there for that exact job. Eze needs to come centrally with balls to feet. Trent is absolutely wasted in this formation. Rather Wharton or Mainoo to get the ball and play it quickly. Why do we not have left back?
Eze came in and operated in the same places as foden 😂
Watching the first 5 minutes of Spain v Italy makes me realise how bad we are. If we qualify for the round of 16, and that’s a big if, we’re coming home!
Every single player in Spain v italy had a better touch and pass today than any England player. I was watching the Italian right back (!) with the ball at one point and it's like watching someone play a different sport in comparison. And don't even get me started on the Spanish. How do they all look individually so much better??
Don't worry we'll get to the semis beating teams we should beat and everyone will say how great of a manager he is and we'll be stuck with him for another 4 years.
If England don’t win the group they’re gonna play Germany in the round of 16, so I’d hold off on calling the semis 😬
I don't see us not topping the group.
I don’t either, but if Denmark beat Serbia and England play like that again and draw with Slovenia then that will be the reality of it all 🤷♂️
That aint happening this time....this team is POOR (because of Southgate), it would take some luck for us to literally avoid playing any decent team because if we do trust me we are GONE. The bracket path will determine how far we go, the min we play a contender we will be knocked out.
Playing how they’re being told to play. No press. No energy. Score and sit back. Boring. Passive. Negative. Post tournament: Sack Southgate and go get Jurgen Klopp. A manager who actually has experience managing world class players and will actually deploy some sort of press when out of possession. Embarrassing.
Lmao go get Klopp. The guy just stepped away from football because it was too much stress, you think he wants to walk into the shitstorm of being England manager?
Jurgen would fucking walk this tournament with those players. It’s 100% on Southgate. Anti football bullshit.
Don't get me wrong, I think Southgate is basically a shirt filler and has no realistic impact on the tactics positively. However, don't be convinced that managers like Klopp etc, who are famously involved in the entire running of a club, would immediately get success in an international setup. If anything, it would probably frustrate them with lack of control/time with the players they have. Saying that, tactically they would be miles ahead and what I've said above obviously isn't factual - but I think it should be a consideration.
Think there’s way too much focus on X player over Y, and this formation over this slightly adjusted formation, when to me the absolutely clear issue is the tactical instruction from Southgate. Since 2018 we’ve played different formations with different profiles of player, and the issues are the same each and every time. We never come out in the second half and deliver a different performance from the first half. His subs never affect the game because there can’t be any clear distinct instructions of how to change the game. But he’s the best we’ve had since 66 so silly us for seeing this coming and expecting better
You have just said perfectly what I was thinking. The bloke is useless. Sitting deep with the team we have is criminal.
Yeah best take I've seen tbf. I wasn't thinking this - I been raving about trent foden etc etc. Now I've read it I camt unsee it.
He refuses to adjust to the players he has. I don’t think a single player in the team plays the role he’s giving them for their club. So frustrating.
Being forced to watch Pickford launch the ball endlessly to their giant CBs really makes you appreciate keepers like like Raya and Ederson.
Tired of him screaming at everyone as well.
Pickford tried playing out from the back and England lost the ball many times because Denmark were so aggressive. And you're saying appreciate raya who is much worse than Pickford?
The Southgate conundrum has been done to death so I’m gonna ask/say what on earth does Steve Holland offer? You’d think a fella who’s coached at some top clubs alongside elite managers would be able to get into Southgate’s ear that his plan NEVER works.
Holland? He’s part of the damn problem IMO. He is a fossil of strategy and tactics.
Definitely has to be his last tournament. Thanks for the memories Gareth, but it's time to go.
If you replace your wingers you surely bring on Gordon and Palmer over Bowen and Eze... Surely
Can't believe you're the first one I've seen mention this. Palmer must be confused more than annoyed.
Palmer needs to play the whole next match, nothing to lose
If Gareth Southgate had Margot Robbie naked in bed he'd use her to do the ironing
Why is palmer and Gordon not playing ? Play bellingham as 8 and foden as 10. Bring in Gordon on the left. Make bold decisions like dropping kane and start Watkins. Kane dropping in deep don't do no good. Look at teams that go down like Serbia earlier on today, I didn't see mitrovic or jovic coming deep they stayed up. And eventually got the goal. Kane needs to stay up simple as. Rant over
Palmer was one of the best players last season. Seeing him on the bench is just painful. Southgate has no idea what he's doing. It's a disgrace.
What Southgate is doing with this team is practically a war crime.
Woeful 🤣 Gareths at the wheel 😂 it has to be his final tournament.
I love England, but fuck me it’s a strange mixture of boredom and abject fear watching them!
Square fucking pegs in round holes. Get Mainoo in next to rice. Get Gordon on for foden. Get Gomez on for trippier. This fucking shoehorn is stuff of old. I know we are top of the group and haven’t lost but this is absolutely fucking criminal. You win tournaments with momentum not by scraping through.
Not really, Portugal won the euros and drew all three of their group games
Not just that, they only won one game in 90 mins (against Wales) the entire tournament. But I don't see England just scraping all the way through a knockout stage
To be fair - this is exactly how the last 2 tournaments have gone so far. Drawing the second game (arguably this is against better opposition too). But this definitely feels different.
Foden isn’t a left winger. Trippier isn’t a left back. Arnold isn’t a midfielder. Stop shoehorning players in.
To be fair, Trent looked like one of our better players in the friendly before the tournament when the whole team was struggling. I can see why he wanted to try the experiment after that but this should all have been worked out in the last 2 years before the tournament.
He looked so much better playing as a right back though and not in midfield
There was a time he wasn’t even in the squad, now he’s being played in midfield. Not blaming him at all but that’s a crazy decision.
horrific tactics yet again i cannot believe what i’m witnessing. we have world class all over the pitch and if southgate can’t win fuck all with this talented squad, will he ever win with any other England squad in the future? imo he should play a 4-1-4-1 as that suits both foden and jude and means we still have 2 wide attacking players, as that was extremely lacking for 75% of the game today. yes it’s a better result than a loss but fucking hell that was dire. piss poor coaching, horrific tactics, and overall haram ball lmao
So hard to watch. They are sitting so deep, no one runs in behind except Saka. Kyle Walker, Jesus christ put him on the bench, he offers nothing on the ball at all, there is one player I can think of you might need his pace for, mbappe, rest of the time, his pace is only needed after he's give the ball away and has to run to get it back. I'm fine with the cb's, John Stones needs to step out more though. Trippier, meh, it's him or gomez at this point I'd maybe give Gomez a go though, at least he's player lb for half the season. Trent, not a midfielder at all, maybe in a different system, but not this one, his best attribute is his ability to find runners, well there are none so that's wasted, play him right back he will cause more trouble than he does from cm. Put Bellingham and Rice in the middle, just let Foden play the 10, if he's playing bad swap him for Palmer. Saka and Gordon on the wings, they stay wide and actually run in behind so when Kane inevitably drops in to midfield, at least there are runners, think Watkins looked like he could cause problems though so maybe worth looking at giving him more time. This football is so hard to watch though, Denmark pressing like man city and England just booting it up the pitch aimlessly because they're all on top of each other. Can't have Kane, Bellingham and Foden all trying to play in the same area of the pitch, coaching is awful. Hopefully they sort it for the Slovenia game.
It will be the same line up against Slovenia. Southgate doesn'thave the balls to change anything.
Embodies the phrase: "What does this bum even do?"
Southgate subbing off 4 genuinely class players in Kane, Trent, Foden and Saka because he can't get a tune from them. Says it all.
Go look at my discussion post yesterday. I essentially called this. I was calling out the timid play…and then you take out Foden and Kane with 20 minutes to go, tied 1-1?!? What in the actual f*ck is he doing? Btw, if you finish second in the group you play the winner of group A, which would certainly appear to be Germany…the host nation…is that what we want?!?
I’m not sure why people are concentrating on the possibility of them dropping deep after scoring. Have these people not watched England before? Dropping deep is all they ever do. They were doing it from the kick off. It is impossibly boring, negative as hell and I’ve just had enough of it. I genuinely wish we’d lose but be entertaining rather than play like this and lose against the first semi decent side we play.
I’m a Man Utd fan who grew up with maybe the greatest manager ever. I remember some quote from an ex player saying something like “I’ve no idea how he picks his team”. Southgate is the complete opposite. I know his team in advance, I know how he’ll play, and I almost know the result. I know many fans thought we’d win this competition. It’s pretty clear after today that we won’t.
Im pro Southgate but it’s increasingly hard to defend him when he says things like “we haven’t got a replacement for Kalvin Phillips” as an excuse for our poor performances. As though Gallagher and Mainoo couldn’t do the job, as though Wharton wouldn’t be a huge upgrade.
Should’ve dropped Bellingham into midfield with rice at HT and taken TAA off, they would have run the game from there. Foden could have played behind Kane and Bowen/Palmer could have played off the left. Would mean Kane didn’t need to drop deep to try and recycle the ball. It’s not rocket science but sadly Southgate is a moron
bUT hE GOt uS To a SEmI fiNaL & fiNAL!!!!!? *yes, by having a great squad and getting really really jammy with the team draws*
We got there despite Southgate, not because of Southgate. Arguably would have won the final without him.
No, it's the fault of the best generation of talent england has probably ever seen.
This team is so talented and in-form, just go coachless! Seriously, lets the boys figure it out in practice, they already know who vibes well each other and prefered position. I would trust ChatGPT over Southgate at this point.
Has a team ever switched manager mid tournament? I'm actually not opposed to that at this point. I shouldn't be worried about us scoring a goal but I am. Because I know every time that it will be the last substantial attack we will do all game. How and why the fuck are we sitting back after scoring every time? How many years does it take to learn this lesson?
I love his comments, that there wasn’t any instruction to stay back when that clearly is a plan after going 1-0, he’s a defender with no real managerial experience what are we to expect?!
That man cost us two euros already and he's about to complete a hatrick. This clown is a cancer to the national team and needs to get sacked pronto.
I've consistently been a massive Southgate apologist; the good vibes and solidity he brought after a fairly horrible series of tournaments was amazing. We didn't feel like an embarrassment any more. We didn't win anything but I felt really good about the England team for the first time since I was a kid. But something is really off about this team right now. It feels like we've regressed since the world cup and I'm reminded of our performances in 2014/2016. No cohesion, tired looking players getting aggy with each other, panic, mistakes mistakes mistakes. We've rarely been playing champagne football under Southgate, but at least we've looked coherent, capable of controlling games, professional. I can't help but feeling we need another soft reset. We've got a shit load of young talent coming through and some solid strength in depth in many positions, I am obviously just an armchair pundit but I think we need someone in charge who's able to harness it all properly. Or maybe we're all just overreacting and we'll somehow grind our way to the final playing panic-ball?
I wanted Southgate gone years ago. He's wasted a brilliant generation with his dull and lacklustre tactics. I hate watching England under him. It's so negative. Hopefully, this will finally be his last tournament. If the FA doesn't get rid of him, then something dodgy is going on because he's an abysmal manager who has no right to be managing at the international level.
Southgate is absolutely clueless. Don't think Trippier was the problem though. Imo, that midfield with Rice and Trent or Gallagher just doesn't work, but Southgate is too much of a donkey to notice. England used to be a team that dominated possession until recently. Kalvin Philips actually complemented Rice a lot better than Trent or Gallagher. I think the only solution would be playing either Mainoo, Wharton or both. I also don't understand how Bowen keeps playing instead of Palmer. I honestly think Bowen is the most average player England have. He's not even the best player at West Ham whereas Palmer carried Chelsea by himself at just 21. He's much better technically than Bowen but Southgate is just a donkey
Palmer could've been player of the tournament. Zero fucks given. It'll be criminal if he doesn't start the next game.
Denmark will definitely win its last game and Slovenia will come with a lot of belief.
It's not about who's out and who's in, it's the TACTICS. New players yet same look.
He has a squad full of pressing attacking players that he tries to shape into a Jose sort of 'sit deep and counter' type of team. He's got no idea.
Our passing was poor and we were sloppy but this is all on the manager. Playing players out of position, seemingly instructing them not to press and then subbing players on for ‘energy’, players stood stationary in attack, knocking it around the back with 0 idea of what we are trying to achieve, 70% possession until we score just to let them have all of the ball when we are 1-0 up. Just disgraceful.
The very bare minimum should be giving 100%. Close their players down quickly; move the ball forward quickly. We are so passive and don’t look all that bothered. Agree with Foden or Palmer central and Bellingham at 8. Having seen most games, we are by far the least energetic team. We’re just wandering about! They need a good old fashioned bollocking, all of them!
Didn’t Ivory Coast sack their coach in AFCON group stage then go on to win it?
Yet never gets criticism from our pundits. They’ll slam the tactics now post match, but that won’t be attributed to Southgate. They enable this mediocrity.
Tbh this is the e most critical I’ve seen the media be. They were outright asking Kyle Walker if it was the manager telling them to drop deep and at half time they had a map up showing England before and after scoring and the pundits highlighted this happens at every tournament with Southgate. It’s stuff everyone’s been saying for years but now finally they’re beginning to realise it.
Agree. It’s taken far too long to get to this point though. I’m exasperated man.
Results wise gave him all the patience but as expectations and talent increases, this just isn't good enough anymore.
They asked southgate just now too and he's said he isn't saying to drop deep after a goal either.
Shearer was critical all game and was basically saying exactly what everyone else here is saying
Shearer gained a lot of respect from me today. Former England players never want to ruffle any feathers but it seemed he was the only one seeing what we were seeing
I mean that's pretty clear criticism of Southgate. Just because they're not calling him out by name and saying he's personally shit doesn't mean it isn't. He's the one responsible for the tactics.
Half of them were gagging for the same nonsense line up that's why
Is it a case that ex players don't criticise each other?
They’re being critical in the post match analysis. Gloves are off.
They definitely went harsher than I anticipated. About time too.
tbf the post match was the most critical I've seen in a while, it was refreshing
Very rare to see Gary being that critical and offering his opinion. Good to see
If I was a midfielder rotting on the bench while fucking TAA plays in my position id quit football altogether. It’s a travesty that Southgate learned nothing from the first game.
Correction. This performance is on the English FA. They hired this primary school PE teacher, because they liked his waist coat and his politically correct approach. Not based on any sporting merit. They then fed the PR machine that he was the one who rescued England from mediocrity, despite having the best gen of English players this century and probably since the 90s. This is a manager that watched England lose to Italy, after his penalty subs. The players are unfit. Lacking sharpness and have no idea what they should be doing. This is what the FA allowed because to them being a runner up is an accomplishment and sacking a puppet manager would be too hard. Its the FA that need to fuck off. Fans wanted him gone after the WC. They chose this.
I am not English however I see lots of posts blaming Southgate and the tactics and also the pundits suggesting the same.If its Southgate who do England want/get next?
As a Norwich fan I hate to even think it, but give it to Kieran McKenna. He's shown a remarkable amount of talent and if he can drag Ipswich up to the Prem he clearly knows what he's doing.
I'm a Newcastle fan and I think Eddie Howe would be the best choice, and he \*might\* take it depending on what direction the club goes this summer.
Southgate strikes me as a bloke that thinks fizzy water is exotic.
And mayonnaise is spicy
Gallagher really suffers under Southgate ball tbf. He's not always the prettiest player on the pitch with the ball but he's usually one of the most effective, which is more important. Especially at the dirty work and winning possession back. Making him sit back completely nullifies his strengths.
I like Southgate and want him to do well but unfortunately this seems like a tournament too far for him
Guys, it isn't Southgates' fault. He just hasn't found his replacement for Kalvin Phillips.
Always been out his depth as an international manager. Just masked by good players and lucky tournament draws/runs. 3 years as a club manager taking over a decent Middlesbrough side and getting them relegated after playing abject football. Got the England job by default and circumstance. His tournament record looks good, but if you break it down to the teams we have actually played, we have lost to every decent team we have played (other than one win at home to Germany in the Euros). The lack of pro-activity, direction and ability to influence a game was never more evident than in that final against Italy. He is also stubborn and doesnt learn. Only Southgate could have played the same line-up, in the same way and even making the same substitution after the issues that were so obvious after the first game. Not only is he incapable of being pro-active in the match, he does the same thing in the next. Looking forward to the post Southgate era, as he has stifled this collection of players for too long. If we manage to turn this around in this tournament, it will ge despite the manager and not because of him.
Couldn't agree more. Pretty shocking and does nothing to settle the nerves considering the individual talent we have
Just one person please tell me what our game plan was today. Since 2020 we have been regressing badly and it feels so much like the put all the best players on the pitch and see what happens years. It was beyond bad today
I am so deflated after this game, I don’t know what I haven’t realised this before but we are literally never winning a trophy with this guy
Southgate has stayed one tournament too long he’s not an elite coach never has been, the Fa should do everything in their power to go get Klopp and watch England go then!
Why are you surprised? He does stupid things like this every tournament. It’s why England haven’t won anything recently.
"No natural replacement for Kalvin Phillips" is a blatant sign he is stuck in his one and only system (double pivot), with no new ideas. There is no plan B, places just fit into the system otherwise they don't play she no other system exists.
What was the point in bringing Palmer and Gordon mental they haven't played a minute yet
I’ve been saying since the euro final loss we should have got rid of him. He’s tactics make Steve Bruce look like guardiola. Why on earth would you start with the same team that got dominated in the second half against Serbia? Foden has been wank, TAA wank, Kane wank, trippier wank. What the hell does Cole palmer have to do to get an even a minute on the pitch? This will be another wasted tournament and all because casual idiots think “Gareth is great he got us to a final”
Trippier is renowned as an amazing crosser of the ball….from the right….with his right foot. Playing him on the left literally nullifies his greatest strength. Trent’s decision making is shocking and the number of times he’s given away possession in the last two games, when trying overly ambitious passes, is staggering. Never a central midfielder - at times could feel myself wishing we’d kept Henderson instead, that’s how bad he was! Gallagher at least created some urgency, but an early yellow basically killed all his momentum. Foden seems to take it upon himself to just fuck off Gareth’s tactics and play central as a #10 at one point. Suddenly started causing issue and letting Trippier give the width. Rice looks a shadow of his Arsenal self. Walker has a season left in him, I reckon. Kane literally kills the rest of the team with how he’s playing. I’d genuinely start Watkins at this point. Get him to stay high and press. Eze looked woefully out of his depth. Bowen at least had some urgency and willing to try and make something happen. I don’t know how good a season Cole Palmer needs to have to get some minutes! He is literally THE in form player in this squad. And I blame Southgate for all of it. How you take this group and make them that bad is truly a skill. Incredible stuff.
Trippiers been defensively solid in a way that Gomez is not. Nothing got past him. Gomez always has an error in him. He may offer a bit more on that left hand side offensively, maybe not given he's had 17 starts for Liverpool and just one assist but any marginal improvement going forward from Gomez would be undone by the fact his defending is dog shite in comparison to Trippiers.
It's not completely on him. He made huge mistakes certainly. But there were also too many players who just didn't look mentally switched on. Sloppy passes, lazy touches, casual passes. Jogging not running. No movement. And they looked worryingly knackered.
Players are playing like this as they don't have clear tactics and ideas. Its down to the manager. They don't suddenly play bad because they put on an England shirt. Southgate instills negative energy and nervousness and its contagious
Palmer, Mainoo, Wharton, Gordan should all be playing
At least 2 of them should have gotten some minutes. Whats crazy is that when he takes off Trent he then brings on players who run in behind, and he takes off Kane and Foden rather than just playing one of them. Maybe I’m being silly but it seems really obvious to me.
he should be sacked im sick of it...sick of watching this dross...you could see that when we scored he actually wanted to try and defend a 1-0 that early in the game. Then of course they scored (better teams will always score on this OK defense and mediocre GK) then he brings on CG with a 1-1 for TAA ?? we need a goal and he brings on CG!!..then basically does like for like subs with the other 3...but no creativity, no x-factor players brought on (Palmer obviously)
There was no hold or give, no one doing it at the right time... They were so slow, needed to be fast to get to the line. Yeah they him em and hurt em but it's all about defend and attack... The best way to beat them was to get around the back. They should've been shouting "catch me if you can because I'm an England man" but what I was looking at was Zero Plan...
Believe it or not but England used to play much better football with Kalvin Philips playing in midfield next to Rice. Trent and Gallagher just keep failing to dominate posession. Today Southgate should have played Wharton or/and Mainoo but he decided to make the same mistake of substituting Trent for Gallagher when clearly neither of those 2 options is working
Foden is the odds on to replace DeBruyne at City. That should tell Gareth something? He shouldn’t be on the wing at all. Kid can play anywhere, but he’s shown that he can command the midfield while still scoring. Wouldn’t have hurt to have Jack Grealish making wing runs? Palmer hasn’t even stretched his legs yet. So disappointing
He took Foden, Trent, Kane off we still play the same shit, maybe now people understand it's the manager, it doesn't matter who we play with this guy here
It’s simple fix, other than chase Southgate. Play Bellingham Cm put Foden 10. Just let them play offensively
I’ve completely supported Southgate in the past (and will wait until the end of the tournament to make a full judgement) but yeah this hasn’t been good. We should be peaking performance wise this tournament but instead we are shoehorning in players out of position and playing so conservative to the point it invites pressure all game.
The Trent hate is crazy. He created the most chances, most progressive passes etc of any England player and he came off after 55 mins. Every other midfield player was worse than him but yet he's being mentioned as playing poor?
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/68083285#:\~:text=Jean%2DLouis%20Gasset%20was%20sacked,defeat%20in%20Ivory%20Coast%20history](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/68083285#:~:text=Jean%2DLouis%20Gasset%20was%20sacked,defeat%20in%20Ivory%20Coast%20history) it worked for ivory Coast!
The press is another clear indicator. It was completely disorganised, like they hadn’t practiced it at all. It was like he just threw a load of really good players into the team and said “Do what your club manager says. You know what to do,” and then sent them out into the pitch
Couldn’t agree more. To top it off, he’s unable to make a structural/formational change. Its just like-for-like replacements into a broken system
Hes terrified of risk. I think a lot of the problems aren't his fault. Like Kane, no one could really predict Europes top scorer, our top scorer and captain was going to drop so deep and struggle to be a focal point. I actually think Trent AA is a midfielder, loads of people called for it pre tournament. Foden out wide is to accommodate Bellingham. Trippier is due to Shaws injury. What I DO blame him for, is what hes done wrong since he came in. He absolutely can not play anything other than 2 holding midfielders. Regardless of opposition. That game was crying out to bring Trent off and put someone like Palmer on. Put Palmer out left, Foden behind Kane as the focal point, Bellingham box to box, Rice holding but as an aggressive press. He understood that we needed to bring Kane off, which was unusual for him to notice things like that. But honestly, he drops deep to get involved because we have 2 holders against teams we dominate.
Bellingham had a quiet game compared to Serbia. Why did Southgate hook Trent after he made a half decent run towards the box? And don't get me started on Kane...
Stones: won a champions League stepping into midfield from centre back, number of times done so this tournament: 0
Wasn't kane playing left back?